April 14, 2025 • 60 mins
The invaluable expertise of classroom teachers is the foundation of effective civic education, as demonstrated by three veteran educators who share their experiences developing curriculum that truly engages students.
• Teachers know their students better than anyone, allowing them to create curriculum that addresses knowledge gaps
• Post-COVID classrooms present unique challenges that only current teachers fully understand
• Teachers should not shy away from controversial topics but instead use primary sources to help students form opinions
• Professional networks and connections significantly enhance teaching effectiveness
• "Chunking" lessons into 12-15 minute segments keeps students engaged, especially in today's attention-challenged environment
• Administrators must trust teachers' judgment and provide meaningful support
• Teacher-developed curriculum is more practical and effective than lessons created by those distant from classrooms
• Building mentor relationships is crucial for new teachers facing the challenges of the profession
Want to expand your professional network? Reach out to Liz Evans at lizevans@asu.edu to connect with experienced educators who can support your civic education journey.
The Arizona Constitution Project
Check Out Our Free Lessons on Arizona History and Government!
Follow us on:
Twitter
Linked In
Instagram
Facebook
YouTube
Website
Interested in a Master's Degree? Check out the School of Civic and Economic Leadership's Master's in Classical Liberal Education and Leadership
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz (00:00):
I am.
I always say I'm excited, but Ifeel like anytime I talk to
teachers it is exciting for mebecause these are the boots on
the ground.
This is where we have kind ofour front line of civic
education and today we aretalking to three members of the
civic literacy teacher cohortand we're talking about teacher
(00:21):
leadership in civics and I'mexcited to have these guests.
They span the country and theyalso span what they teach.
So I will have our first guest,deb, if you want to go ahead
and introduce yourself for ourpodcast listeners.
Deb (00:40):
My name is Deb Masker and I spent numerous years in the
classroom in Council BluffsPublic Schools, which is along
the Missouri River.
I have served as aninstructional coach focused in
(01:03):
social studies, and also theinternational baccalaureate
coordinator, and this year I'vetransitioned to a new role and I
am working with the teacherintern program through
Morningside University, and sowhen I started this program, I
was in the classroom and now Iam working with teachers in the
classroom.
This is my first year doingthat.
Liz (01:23):
For those of you who do not know where Council Bluffs is,
it is in the great state of Iowawhere.
I was born and still very muchhave lots of love for that state
, so I'm very happy we have twoIowa teachers on our cohort.
Kristy, what about you?
Kristy (01:43):
Well, I'm originally from Michigan, so that's where I
was born and raised, but now Icurrently live in Arizona.
I've been teaching eighth gradesocial studies for the past 19
years and honor social studiesavid, even PE, sprinkled in
along the way.
I've worked many years with theArizona Law and Legal
(02:09):
Foundation, also with iCivics.
I've had the opportunity tohelp write curriculum for the
World War II Museum and I thinkthe most probably proud educator
moment, I guess, for me isbecoming a nationally board
certified teacher.
Also, I'm a James Madisonfellow and I just love to teach,
(02:30):
so I love to mentor and I justlove to inspire students to
think critically about the worldaround them.
Liz (02:40):
Yes, Kristy is our James Madison Fellow, also another
National Board Certified Teacher.
Craig (02:46):
Speaking of James Madison Fellows and Michigan Craig,
I'll have you introduce yourselfteaching now for 29 years and
(03:07):
this is actually my last year,believe it or not and I did my
undergraduate work at CentralCollege in Pella.
Iowa.
So there's an Iowa connection aswell.
Got to connect everybodytogether here in our meeting.
And what I teach typically isI've been teaching AP US history
now for gosh 15, 16 years.
I think.
I actually started off teachingFrench many, many, many years
(03:31):
ago, but I also I know, right,total change.
But I also teach regular UShistory.
I've taught civics andeconomics and world history
history.
I've taught civics andeconomics and world history.
I also developed a class onWorld War II and the Holocaust
that I've taught toupperclassmen and I really enjoy
teaching that class because itallows students to really
(03:54):
explore a topic that they'rereally interested in much more
in depth, unlike, you know, apUS history where it's like, okay
, it's Tuesday, so it's WorldWar II, now let's do something
else.
You know, yes, other thingsthat I've done as well as I've
worked very closely withNational History Day over the
years, not just as a participantbut as a I've taken.
(04:18):
I've had students enrolled insome of their programs.
I went to Normandy and didresearch on World War II
veterans.
I also do some work with them,helping mentor teachers across
the country.
I've written curriculum withthe Pilecki Institute in Warsaw,
poland, about the Holocaust andalso for resistance to
(04:44):
totalitarian regimes.
So I try to get out there asmuch as I can, to you know, make
a difference in helpingteachers be able to access good
materials.
Liz (04:58):
I love that and I.
So this is a complete aside,but I am Craig's friend on
Duolingo and I know that you'vebeen doing years of Polish and
you are actually the reason Ihave such a long streak in
Spanish, because I'm like I needto get there.
So I love, I love watching theteachers I know learning and
(05:20):
growing personally, because Iknow that that also helps them
grow professionally.
So thank all three of you forbeing here.
I again this is, I think, oneof my favorite parts of the job
is to be able to talk toteachers.
So our first question teachersknow their students in their
classrooms better than anyone.
(05:41):
And, Kristy, I'm sure when wetalk about this too, this is one
of the tenets of the nationalboards.
Why do you think it's soimportant for educators to have
leadership roles in curriculumdevelopment rather than just
following pre-made lessons?
And, deb, I'm going to startwith you on this question.
Deb (06:00):
Well, I have been involved in Council Bluffs writing social
studies curriculum twodifferent times and we rewrite
curriculum every seven years.
And so for me, having that inclassroom, working with students
every day, knowing theirstrengths, knowing what skills
(06:21):
they come to us lacking a littlebit in, what skills they come
to lacking a little bit in it,allows me to help with the
curriculum development to helpmeet those needs that are
gapping and to capitalize onthose skills that they have that
are excellent, and I'm surethat the school district I
(06:41):
worked in is not different fromothers across the nation.
But in elementary school,unfortunately, they get a taste
of social studies and a taste ofscience and they may have
social studies for 45 minutesfor an entire week, and so when
they come to us at the middleschool, a lot of their skills
(07:04):
are not there.
So we have to help bring themup to speed, whether it's
reading primary documents orthose kinds of things.
So being able to assess mystudents' skills and know where
they're at and where we wantthem to become, that really
drives the curriculumdevelopment.
(07:25):
And, as all good teachers willtell you, they rewrite lessons
and rewrite curriculum everysingle day to meet the needs of
their students.
So when I have an opportunityto do that or be a part of a
group that's doing that, I feellike I am tapping into my
students and listening to themand where they need to grow and
(07:48):
develop and then help thatcurriculum build those skills.
Liz (07:54):
I love that, Craig.
What about you?
Craig (07:59):
It is really important for us to be part of that
curriculum development process.
Really important for us to bepart of that curriculum
development process.
Obviously, what we're doinghere over the course of the past
year, you know, we are doingkind of pre-made lessons.
That's what we're doing.
But because, you know, pre-madelessons aren't inherently bad,
it's how they're produced and Ithink all of us have been.
(08:22):
We have worked with pre-madelessons that come with textbooks
.
That's like who?
Who designed this?
You know, this person has notseen a classroom in like 20
years, you know, andexpectations for not only the
students but for the teachers isjust so out there.
It's like how can?
I would expect us to do this inthree days.
(08:43):
This is something that wouldtake three weeks, you know.
They just don't have theconnection with the classroom.
And so I think, you know,actually having classroom
teachers who are currentlyworking with students, who know
student strengths and weaknesses, kind of like what Deborah was
saying, but also know theconstraints that they have
(09:05):
within their own classroom,within their own district,
within their own community,having them develop lessons that
really fit and work for them, Ithink is invaluable, and so the
more that classroom teachersare involved in working with
curriculum development, I thinkthe more useful these lessons
will be and the more peopleactually will use them and not
(09:27):
have to modify things to make itfit, because it's like, look at
this, like, yep, this issomething that'll work because a
teacher actually developed it.
Liz (09:37):
And I think to post-COVID, because I left the classroom in
2020.
So my last semester was right,as everything was kind of
shutting down.
I will never pretend to knowwhat a post COVID classroom
looks like, because I've nevertaught in one right, even though
I have 17 years of teaching.
I have a lot of experience.
(09:58):
I don't know what that post is,and I think that that is one of
for me as a professional havingpeople that are in the
classroom who know like, yeah,maybe this lesson would have
worked in 2017, but in 2025,this is not working, because the
students in front of me areworking with different gaps,
they're working with lots ofdifferent things.
Craig (10:21):
Yes, I agree.
The post-COVID world is socompletely different, so if you
haven't been teaching since,then developing effective
lessons will be challenging.
Liz (10:34):
Absolutely Kristy.
What does that look like foryou?
Kristy (10:47):
was going to address what you just said, liz.
I think the biggest differenceof having teachers develop those
lessons is that we know ourstudents and nobody else does,
and that COVID gap is real.
And if you weren't teaching inthat time then it's really hard
to know how to address thosestudents because we're acting as
though those students are thesame and those students aren't.
Every year our students aredifferent and we feel that are
the same and those studentsaren't.
Every year our students aredifferent and we feel that in
(11:07):
the classroom and we can'treally build on curriculum until
we know the needs of ourstudents.
It is perfect.
As soon as you said that, Ithought of National Board and
it's really the foundation,right?
What do our students know andhow do we know our students?
And once we're able to achievethat, then we can reach out to
them.
But if we are not tapping intothat knowledge base of knowing
(11:32):
who our students are and thosegaps in their learning, then we
can't possibly even begin tocreate the curriculum that is
going to reach them and actuallystart to change their learning.
Liz (11:50):
Absolutely, and I'm trying to remember the.
I think it is teachers knowtheir students and how to teach
content to those students.
And and it is I mean I, Kristyand I taught in the same
district for a really long time.
We both taught middle schooland even I mean year to year, my
kids were different, but evenclass to class kids are
different.
So, yes, I might be teachingabout, you know, the
fundamentals of the constitution, but the way I have to change
(12:11):
that for every class to makesure and Deb brought this up too
you have to address the holesthat they might have from
elementary school school, and soI think that one of the gifts
that teachers have that oftenget overlooked is not only do
they know their content, butthey're looking at these 30 plus
people in front of them andsaying, okay, I need to make
(12:34):
sure they all get it.
How can I frame this andscaffold this to make sure that
that happens?
Kristy (12:41):
Absolutely.
I think that's it's imperative.
If you're going to developcurriculum, you have to have a
teacher that is in the classroom, that is current not only with
current students, but also withcurrent events.
Right, the way that our worldworks is that it's ever changing
and we need to be able to keepup on those changes and continue
to be lifelong learners, likewe want our students to be
(13:07):
continue to be lifelong learners, like we want our students to
be, absolutely so.
Liz (13:08):
My second question, then how has being part of the civic
literacy curriculum teachercohort allowed you to take
ownership of civic education?
I think that and I'm again I'mso tired of the word
unprecedented, but I can't thinkof any other way to say like it
just feels like every time weturn on the news or you know
anything, there's thingshappening that are just it's
(13:29):
moving so fast.
And can you share anyexperiences where your expertise
because you are all experts indifferent things how that
directly influenced thecurriculum that we created?
Craig, I will start with you.
Craig (13:43):
All right, you know, as far as taking ownership in civic
education, you know, as I'vebeen reaching the end of my
teaching career, I've beenlooking more and more to try to
give back, you know, to helpfuture teachers, because I know,
when I started off, I wasn'tcreating curriculum, I was
(14:06):
relying on other people providedfor me and oftentimes it wasn't
that great, you know, and so Iwant to leave the world a better
place as I am exiting education, and so for me being able to,
you know, review these lessonsand see the care that everybody
(14:29):
has put into these lessons tomake sure that they are
accessible to the teachers, thatwe can do these things, that
the students can actually beengaged and really learn from
the lessons, it's been reallyawesome to be part of that,
seeing the incredibly creativethings that teachers were coming
(14:53):
up with.
I have no doubt that theselessons will be incredibly
successful with students.
So I'm really looking forwardto hearing in the future how
these things actually turn out.
I wish I actually would be ableto use them myself, but you
know I'll be relaxing, maybesomebody will ask you.
Liz (15:13):
maybe somebody will ask you someday like, hey, craig, do
you have a really good lesson onthe judiciary?
And you can be like maybe Idon't right now because I'm out
of the classroom.
I have gone to a new portion ofmy life but I know that these
lessons exist because I'velooked at them, I've reviewed
them and I've had thatexperience.
Craig (15:31):
Exactly, and this is something that you know.
When teachers one of mycolleagues, people I meet from
around the country ask aboutwhere do I go to get good
lessons, this is definitelygoing to be one of the places
I'm directing them to, becausethis stuff is peer reviewed.
It is good stuff.
I am so happy to be part ofthis.
Liz (15:51):
And speaking of expertise and lessons, Kristy, one of my,
I mean, I loved I really didlove the process of putting
these all on the website becauseI got to read every single one.
And, Kristy, you created agovernment unit, kind of this
mini jigsaw that I feel justknowing you from all the years
(16:14):
that we've known each other andworked together, that's kind of
your jam.
So can you kind of talk aboutthat a little bit for our
listeners?
Kristy (16:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think.
When we are talking aboutlearners and how they've changed
, I think learners need to behands-on.
We need to get students to beable to interact with what we
want them to know and how torelate it to their own lives,
and I think Jigsaw is one of thebest FXx sizes to be able to
get students, so it just seemednatural for me to put it and
(16:51):
have students be part of a minigovernment.
Um, not only do I love to havethose students be interactive in
their learning, but I thinkit's just so important for them
to know our own civics.
Uh, as I take students outsideof the United States, it gives
us a really great way to comparedifferent government systems
(17:11):
and making it relevant andknowing that this government is
not just something they'relearning because we're
memorizing information orlearning about, you know, people
who died a long time ago.
Civics is alive and it'srunning right now in front of
our eyes.
So I think getting them to knowthat there's a relevancy in
that, that is something thatthey can interact with on a
(17:33):
daily basis.
I mean, I think, liz, you saidsomething like we can't even
turn on the TV without seeingsomething civic related, and I
think it really is our job associal studies teachers in
general to give students a voiceRight.
It's not about what we think,but it's about them developing
their own civic person and Ithink that can just be really
(17:54):
powerful.
And I think unfortunately,sometimes because of the
political climate, I thinkteachers shy away from these
difficult topics.
But it's really not about whatwe think.
It's about students being ableto develop their own thoughts
absolutely.
Liz (18:10):
We're teaching them how to think, not what to think, and
that is it's such an importantthing, because then, no matter
you know what comes up in thenews, with whatever
administration is in charge, wehave a way to talk about it.
It's again based in primarysources, it's based in founding
(18:31):
documents, and we allow studentsto blossom from that.
Deb, I feel like now that youare helping you are in the
classroom and now you're helpingteachers.
How does that work for you withyour experience doing that, and
how it's influencing curriculum?
Because now you're working withteachers.
Deb (18:53):
Well, I think it's really important, at least for me, that
teachers have a group ofprofessionals that they can work
with and count on, that theycan plan with, and I was
fortunate enough in my formerschool district to meet with
(19:13):
PLCs twice a week on a regularbasis and we were able to
collaborate and work together todevelop really were able to
work with each other, revieweach other's lessons and help
(19:38):
each one of us develop the bestlesson that we can possibly
develop for a particularstandard within the civics
curriculum.
I was just totally amazed at Idid the three to five and at the
creative ways that teachersapproached those students and
(19:58):
their needs and different waysto keep them engaged.
I really appreciate what Kristysaid about jigsawing.
That's one of my favorite waysfor students to work in the
classroom.
But I also challenge teachersto think about chunking their
lessons and trying to do adifferent kind of activity every
(20:20):
15, 12 to 15 minutes.
And I taught middle school foryears and our classrooms were
excuse me, our class periodswere an hour long, which was a
gift.
But how can we keep themengaged, keep them moving
forward and keep them listening,and I work really hard with
teachers every single day tohave them keep that engagement
(20:44):
in mind and how can we bringthat to them?
I was in a classroom todaywhere students were working on
different regions of the UnitedStates Amazingly, that's part of
the curriculum and I was goingoh, I have things that go with
that and shared them with thosepeople.
Had I known that that's exactlywhat they were going to be
working on before I went to theclassroom, I would have been a
(21:07):
little bit better prepared toshare things.
But I shared things when I leftand kids were excited about
learning about the differentregions of the United States and
what things were unique to eachof those reasons.
I want to piggyback on what yousaid about not shying away from
(21:27):
difficult topics.
I still am in contact with myPLCs from my former school
district and oftentimes I willget phone calls asking me how I
would approach a particularcontroversial topic that came
through the news.
And we go back to thosefounding documents, those
(21:50):
primary sources, and say whatdid the founding fathers put in
the constitution?
Why are these things in placeand why are they still relevant
today?
And I think our students arebeing challenged to go back to
those documents and to look atwhat those ideas were and how,
250 years later, thoseprinciples still ring true and
(22:16):
how important it is tounderstand those things.
I know the three branches ofgovernment and the balance of
power is very much in play rightnow.
And so what did the documentsay?
What do we know has worked inthe past?
And how is today different?
And I'm not saying it's better,worse.
I'm just saying and how istoday different?
(22:38):
And let the kids form theiropinions.
We can show them the documents,help them understand, help them
read the primary sources andthen, ultimately, they have to
make and devise their ownopinions.
Liz (22:56):
Absolutely.
And even looking at Federalist51, I think that I used to think
with my eighth graders well,that's too hard for them to read
, they can't do it and they can.
And the more you dive intothose documents with them and
have that productive struggleand look at, you know what did
Madison say?
(23:16):
And there's just so much moreto explore.
And I think that kids reallylike that because they are used
to TikTok, they're used to thesequick things, but having the
ability to work through aquestion and, you know, talk to
their peers and have a teacherfacilitating and guiding, I do
think students still reallyenjoyed that.
(23:39):
So curricular development isoften seen as something that's
done at the district or thestate level.
What are some ways thatteachers can advocate for their
voices to be heard in shapingwhat students learn and how they
learn?
And, Kristy, I will start withyou.
Kristy (23:58):
I think it's important to get involved.
I think a lot of times thecomplaints usually come from
teachers who aren't involved inthe process of what's happening.
For example, in my districtwe're doing common unit
assessments, right, so I can sitback and I can go oh gosh, I
just what's going to be on theseunit assessments, what are they
going to look like?
(24:18):
Or I can be a voice at thetable to help develop, you know,
these different units, justlike our literacy curriculum
that we were able to developthrough ASU.
Being able to be part of thatseat at the table, I think is so
powerful when you haveeducators that come together.
It's beautiful the things thatwe can create, especially having
(24:41):
this cohort that has peopleacross the country coming from
different backgrounds anddifferent experiences.
It's just such a wealth ofknowledge that we can learn from
one another.
And when we can learn from oneanother, then we can take those
experiences back to our students.
I really love going back to youknow.
Chunking those lessons is sovery important for our kids of
(25:02):
today because they're the youknow generation of being
entertained, especially sinceCOVID, a lot of these kiddos
grew up with you know,technology in their hands all
the time and so being able tocollaborate and get involved.
Then we can be part of thesolution instead of just stating
the problem.
Liz (25:24):
I love that and I think that you don't have to have a
title to be a leader.
That is, I think.
Sometimes people think, well, Ihave to be a department head, I
have to be something else andyou don't Deb.
What are your thoughts?
Deb (25:38):
Well, I agree with what Kristy said.
I said I think as teachers wehave to advocate for our
students and we also have toadvocate for ourselves.
The district that I was a partof has district assessments in
social studies and they werecreated by a non-classroom
(25:59):
teacher and when we were firsthanded them I think aghast was
the best word that I could comeup with Um and we um put our
feet down and stood strong andwere able to make changes in
(26:21):
those district assessmentsbecause we wanted to make sure
that the skills were beingassessed, but in a way that our
kids could also feel um goodabout themselves, that they had
knowledge and had the originalquestions stayed in place.
Our kids would have felt prettyhopeless with those tests.
(26:42):
Now, would they be a great goalto strive for with some of the
way that the skills questionswere written?
Absolutely, and are we givingup on getting to that point?
No, but you have to know whereyour kids are at and what they
can understand and when you aska question of which they have no
(27:04):
background knowledge, have noconcept of what the question is
about in the historical context,they can't do the skill.
So we just have to reallylisten to the teachers and
listen to those people that arein the classroom and give them
credit for what they do know,and you can be that voice in
(27:28):
your PLCs in your district.
At the state level, I know thestate of Iowa is going through
another curriculum revision andthey asked for people to
volunteer and I volunteered as acommunity member.
Haven't heard back if I'm inthe group or not, that's neither
here nor there but I wanted tomake sure that there was a
(27:48):
community member that had somesemblance of knowledge of social
studies curriculum so thatvoice could be heard in the
writing of the state newcurriculum.
So I just think you have toadvocate for yourself and you
have to advocate for yourstudents so that they can become
(28:09):
successful.
Liz (28:12):
I love that and I love talking about standards, because
I mean every state has to gothrough standards review and
they do ask for teachers, theyask for community members, and
so that's really powerful.
Craig, what does it look likefor you?
Craig (28:29):
I think, going back to what Kristy had said, it's
important to get involved.
You just have to get yourself,put yourself out there, let your
administration know that youwant to take part in this
process.
Volunteer, where you can Getinvolved on committees, like I
know within my own district,like there are curriculum
(28:53):
steering committees at variouslevels and sometimes they have a
hard time getting enoughteachers actually on those
committees, which to me is a isa crime.
It's like if you want to havebetter curriculum, if you want
to have a voice, you have to,you have to get involved and do
that.
And because as teachers, weneed to feel ownership in what
(29:15):
we're doing, to actually reallyfeel passionate about it.
If we're just given somethingthat we know that it was
developed by someone who's notreally a classroom teacher, who
just is kind of check, you know,checking the boxes to make sure
this is done, then it's notgoing to be very successful.
But if we know that either weor our close colleagues are
(29:36):
getting involved in thesecommittees to help develop this
curriculum that we're using inour classrooms, it's going to be
so much more effective in thelong run.
Also, in my district we have atleast in my building.
We have something calledCritical Friends, which is kind
of like a PLC type ofenvironment where teachers are
encouraged to come together oncea month and just share ideas
(29:59):
like what's been successful inthe classroom, what have we been
doing that works, what are somegood resources that we found
online or in various otherplaces that we can share with
one another to be moresuccessful in the classroom.
And I think doing somethinglike that, even just kind of
bypassing administration in someways, can be really helpful,
(30:20):
but also then sharing that withadministration saying hey, we as
teachers, we have found this,we're using this.
It's successful.
You know, can you allow us todo more things like this?
So I think that that's one of agood way of advocating for
yourselves.
Liz (30:39):
And I think good administrators appreciate when
teachers take the initiative tosay here, you know, in our PLC,
here's something that we'vetried.
Can we get more backing on this?
I think that there areadministrators really good
administrators out there thatare like there are
administrators really goodadministrators out there that
are like absolutely, this soundsawesome.
(31:00):
Let me you know and all of thisleads to my next question.
You know, collaboration isreally key to building strong
curriculum.
How is working with othereducators whether it's through
our cohort or your own networks,because you all have your own
networks how has that helpedstrengthen your approach to
civic education?
So I know I mean my network isvery large because over two
(31:21):
decades it just builds.
Craig, I met you for the firsttime in 2016 at Ashland
University.
Craig (31:29):
It has been a while.
Liz (31:31):
It has.
Wow, that has been a long timeand you know, Kristy, we've
worked together.
Deb, this is our first timeworking together and I
definitely know that it's notgoing to be our last, because
these networks kind of build.
So how is working withdifferent educators, whether
it's in your state or out of thestate?
Help strengthen your approachto civic education and, Deb,
I'll start with you on this one.
Deb (32:01):
Well and I went to Ashland in 2019.
I was not a James Madisonfellow, but I was a Buchholz
scholar for a week and probablyone of my greatest learning
experiences that I had adifferent way to approach a
college education class ahistory education class.
It was on Jefferson and I justreally appreciate the
(32:27):
opportunity at Ashland.
It's important to have thosenetworks.
I've been blessed with theopportunities of going to the
George Washington TeachersInstitute, the Mount Vernon
Teachers Institute and the WhiteHouse Teachers Institute in the
past couple of years and thosepeople that I have met at those
(32:54):
organizations and through thatweek-long experience at each one
of those have helped my networkgrow tremendously.
I have a dear friend inColumbia, south Carolina, that I
sat next to at the GeorgeWashington Teachers Institute,
at the George WashingtonTeachers Institute, and we now
(33:15):
plan and have presented at theNational Council of History of
Education Conference, not thisyear but the last two years, and
that network grew because ofthose experiences.
So I think being able to talkto other teachers, see what
they're doing in the classroom,pick their brains, for lack of a
better way to say it.
(33:36):
What are you doing and how areyou meeting this needs for
children and what kind ofchunking do you do and how do
you get engagement?
All of those are so important,but it's really important in
today's world that our studentshave a really good understanding
of civic education and so beingable to be a part of those
(33:58):
networks and go to thosedifferent learning experiences I
brought back such a wealth ofnew understanding materials to
use in the classroom to theteachers in my district.
One day they said are you evergoing to be quiet about what you
learned?
And I said no, I'm not.
I'm so excited, nope.
(34:19):
And so those things areimportant and teachers, at least
in my former district, lovedwhen I would come in and team
teach with them and work throughdifferent things that I had
experienced and especially withbeing able to tie those things
(34:41):
to the civic education that wedo in American history in eighth
grade just is a great way tocollaborate and to build those
networks.
Build those networks and youknow Facebook is not great for a
lot of things, but Facebook isgreat for continuing to have
those connections.
So now I know somebody at theLBJ library and I know someone
(35:06):
who knew May Cryer, who was aRosie the Riveter and is 98
years old, and my NationalHistory Day student got to speak
with her last year over GoogleMeet and she got to hear about
this wonderful woman'sexperience as a woman in World
War II.
She talked about, you know,growing from that experience and
(35:30):
, you know, when she was able tostep out on her own.
I just think all those networksare so important and keeping
those connections with thosepeople will just help you grow
as a teacher.
Liz (35:45):
A thousand percent and it's , I think, one of my very
favorite things about civics,social studies, history teachers
is I never feel like I'm incompetition.
I always feel like I'm acompetitive mate, like we're all
in this together.
So if I, if I am strugglingwith something, I, I I actually
(36:06):
think I've text Craig to be likehey, because we also went to
the National Constitution Centerand tried new coffee shops in
Philadelphia and, craig, youhave a huge network as well, so
not only the Madison Network,but you've been to so many
different professionaldevelopments and I feel like
(36:28):
your network is enormous.
So how has that kind of helpedyou?
Craig (36:32):
Oh, my, I can't even begin to explain how much it's
helped me I mean, when I firststarted, when I transitioned
from teaching French to teachinghigh school history and civics
and everything else, I reallyfelt isolated and alone, because
the people in my department, inmy high school, at that point
in time, they're all older, theyreally didn't care.
(36:53):
They're basically like, well,you have a in time, they're all
older, they really didn't care.
They're basically like, well,you have a textbook and the
lesson plans there, what else doyou need?
And so I went out and found theopportunities for myself.
That's when I started gettinginvolved in the NEH and National
History Day Gilder Lehrman, allthe other great resources out
there, and sort of making thoseconnections, and that made me
(37:16):
realize that history, education,civics education can be
exciting and there are peopleout there who are passionate
about it and who are constantlytrying to make the curriculum
better every single year.
You know, one thing I starteddoing very early on was I got
(37:38):
rid of, like, my lesson planbook that you know teachers
would pull out the lesson planbook and use the same lessons
every year, year after year yes.
No, every single year it's kindof like from scratch.
What am I going to do this year?
How's it going to be different?
How's it going to be better?
It's kind of like from scratch.
What am I going to do this year?
How's it going to be different?
How's it going to be better?
(37:59):
And I rely on my friends thatI've met through these networks
to help me in that process.
You know there are, like myNormandy Institute, people from
National History Day.
We went to Normandy togetherback in was it 2019?
I think it was so what six,seven years ago now?
And we text each other everysingle day.
We have a group chat and wewill go in there and say, hey,
(38:20):
I'm teaching this, what ideas doyou have?
What websites do you know I cango to, as well as other?
You know we just, you know,talk about random subjects as
well, but you know, having thatsource I can go to is amazing.
You know, having you as aresource.
You know we met, like you said,in 2016 at Ashland and we've
(38:40):
kept in contact and you knowthat's made teaching so much
more enjoyable to me and I can'timagine doing this and being as
passionate as I've been inhistory and civics education
without these connections.
Deb (38:59):
I went to the National History Day Sacrifice for
Freedom in the Pacific in 2023.
And those connections again, asCraig said, we talk to each
other all the time, we text eachother, we email each other and
(39:20):
again, it's that additional wayfor your network to grow.
It was an amazing experiencewith my student, amazing
research experience to be ableto prepare that eulogy for the
fallen soldier from CouncilBluffs but, at the same time, to
(39:40):
work with all of the otherteachers over the course of the
semester as we prepared.
Those are just experiences andfriendships and collegiality
that you cannot find anywhereelse.
Liz (39:56):
And I'm like you, deb.
I was not a Madison Fellow.
I got a scholarship to do oneclass and for any teacher out
there, that's like I don't wantto go alone, like what if I
don't know anybody?
I went to Ashland Universityand I didn't know anybody.
And Craig and Linda and Kim, andmy old government teacher, lisa
(40:18):
Adams, who has passed, and myold government teacher, lisa
Adams, who has passed justeverybody opens their arms and I
feel like my favorite thing Imean my favorite thing about
social studies teachers is thatopen arm and like, yes, let's
bring you in and you can go tothese things alone.
(40:48):
And, like you said, you leaveand you have all these group
chats and you have emails andyou have new Facebook friends
and the one reason I've keptFacebook is because that's how I
keep in touch with of myfavorite.
My favorite stories is that youand I showed up to, you know,
hta and our girls are now inkindergarten together, but we
taught in the same district andwe we did a lot of the same
(41:12):
professional developments.
But you are a Madison fellow,you are a national board
certified teacher, so you havethat you know expansive network
as well.
So how has that worked for youBecause you are also girl, a
world traveler, and every breakI am watching your Instagram to
see where you're going with yourfamily, cause it's just so fun.
Kristy (41:35):
Yeah, I mean it's hard to really add much more to you
know no-transcript somethingpowerful that happens when you
(42:12):
travel and you learn, becauseyou become bonded to these
people who maybe you just met afew days ago but all of a sudden
have now become like lifelongfriends.
It is it's hard to reallyexplain unless you've actually
gone through it yourself or havetraveled somewhere yourself.
And I think maybe that's why Ido love to take students and
(42:34):
people across differentcountries and nations.
Because of that, and peopleacross different countries and
nations because of that, I don'tknow that learning right, that
learning happens and it's justso real and tangible.
And I mean, even on thispodcast, just listening to Deb
and Craig talking about theirexperiences, I'm already
(42:54):
learning and passionate aboutwhat they're doing and thinking.
Oh, that sounds so cool.
I think.
Also I want to talk about, likewhat you're saying is it's not
really a competitive thing, it'smore of a wow, that's so
fascinating.
Let me look that up.
I would like to be interestedin that too.
Or that sounds amazing Like Iwant to become a better educator
in that field or in that youknow type of unit or of study
(43:19):
that maybe you didn't evenconsider before.
So I think I don't know.
I just think there's somethingthat happens at these places
where we get to meet othereducators that are passionate
and super nerdy Like I'm a supernerd and I can't help it but
when we get together we nerd outand we can't help but really
have those bonds that arecreated in these moments and
(43:42):
it's just really cool and it'sinspiring.
Honestly, when I meet otherpeople, I find inspiration.
Every time I meet someone andhear their story and you know,
and it challenges me to be abetter person.
Honestly.
Liz (43:58):
I love that.
And, craig, I do want to goback to what you said, because I
so I taught in the samedistrict as Kristy for 11 years.
I moved to a new district, Itaught AP government and I felt
incredibly isolated becausethere was no other AP government
teacher on my campus and Ithink that everyone thought well
, you've been a teacher for along time, you're nationally
(44:19):
board certified, you're fine,and I was drowning and it
genuinely was things like goingto Ashland.
We took a class on politicalparties and I learned more in
expanding that and teachingdoesn't have to be so isolating.
Okay, so if you could giveadvice to school leaders and
(44:40):
policymakers about how to bettersupport teacher-led curriculum
development, what would you say?
Or I'll give you an alternativequestion for that new teacher
who is either new to the subject, new to teaching in general,
regardless of age, because wehave a lot of people who come in
as second career teachers whatadvice would you give them?
(45:03):
And there's been so much goodadvice here, but you are all
veterans and you're all expertsat what you do and in your
classroom.
So I want to leave ourlisteners with advice.
And, craig, I'm going to startwith you, my friend, all right.
Craig (45:19):
If I were to give advice to school leaders, I would say
the biggest piece of advice istrust your teachers.
Trust your teachers.
Trust your teachers.
They're the ones who are in theclassroom with the students
every single day.
They know their students, theyknow their strengths, they know
(45:42):
their weaknesses.
They know their own personalstrengths and weaknesses.
And so if a teacher comes to youand says I'm looking for more
resources, I want to expand mynetwork, I want to find better
ways of teaching this.
Trust them and encourage themin that process.
(46:03):
Direct them towards NationalHistory Day.
Direct them towards all thesegreat places that are out there.
Direct them to senior teacherswho maybe have gone through the
process like me, for example, inmy building.
I'm the most senior person inmy department and I am happy to
(46:24):
sit down with anybody and tellthem how to improve upon what
they're doing and where to findgreat resources.
But I think it comes down tothe administration trusting
their teachers that when thoseteachers come to them and ask
them for assistance and askwhere they can go to encourage
them to run with it, say here'swhere you can go and I want you
(46:45):
to do it to have a.
This is a professionaldevelopment day for you.
You're not losing any time.
Go ahead and do this, and Ithink that'll make the make it
so much better.
Liz (46:56):
Yes, trust your teachers and invest in your teachers,
because that is, I think, thebest investment is that, even if
you're just giving aprofessional day, because
everything else is is taken careof.
I love that.
Kristy, what advice do you have?
Kristy (47:13):
Well, I'm going to go ahead and answer about the new
teacher, because I think we'veseen a huge burnout rate.
I don't think there's a lot ofpeople, younger people, going
into the profession as muchanymore and there's a lot of
challenges with that.
And I think often it's becausethey don't feel supported.
And I think in teaching ingeneral, you know it's a very
(47:34):
intrinsic rewards type of job.
We don't tend to see thoseextrinsic very often.
It's the reason why, you know,teachers go into it not
necessarily for the money butfor the passion and, I think,
being able to keep that passionalive in a young teacher or when
I say young, or maybe just newteacher.
In general, most people whenthey go into teaching, they're
very excited about their craftand then they might not feel
(47:58):
supported in some of thesituations, whether it's parents
or curriculum work or justbehavioral students.
And I think we could do abetter job of being able to
support those new teachers withmentors and really making it a
priority to not only supportthem with curriculum but for
student behaviors and parents.
(48:20):
I think we all remember whatit's like to be a student
teacher and how difficult thatwas, but I think we just need to
continue to lift them up andtell them that it's okay.
It's okay to fail, it's okay tolearn from your mistakes, and
you know growth is part of thisprofession.
But I also think having thosetangible, quick ways to go back
(48:44):
to what Deb was saying ischunking those lessons, giving
them good instructionalmaterials so they can be
successful off the bat, I thinkcan really be helpful.
Liz (48:56):
I love that too.
I love that too.
And if you are in a situationwhere you and your building
maybe don't have somebody tomentor you, I think this is
where you start reaching out andyou can absolutely start with
me at ASU, because I have anetwork and I can connect you to
people that I know will want tohelp and want to mentor you.
And that is a very genuinething that I want to put out
(49:21):
there, because my degree was inearly childhood education and I
ended up teaching eighth gradesocial studies and I had mentors
at my very first school who,because I taught English and
social studies and the Englishdepartment chair said we will
not let you fail, and havingthat support and then moving
(49:47):
schools and having a reallystrong admin team got me to
where I was.
So if you are in a situationwhere you don't necessarily have
that, start reaching out and ifyou need to start with me
lizevansasuedu it's the easiestemail ever, deb, we're going to
end with you.
Kristy (50:04):
Oh, go ahead, oh sorry I was just going to piggyback up
on that, liz.
I think having a strong mentoris really key, just like having
a strong mentor teacher whenyou're learning your craft as
student teaching, when you'refirst getting into a building,
and if you don't have anybody,it really is kind of a fight or
flight method there.
I mean, I remember for me evenearly on having Leslie be there
(50:27):
to mentor me and encourage me,and hopefully everybody has that
someone, because if you don'thave that someone, I think
that's where you are feeling youknow failure and not support,
and I think that is really key.
So I think that's awesome thatyou kind of put that out there
for people, because it really isjust so important to make sure
(50:50):
that people are feelingsupported and lifting up and
learning together.
Liz (50:55):
I love that you brought up Leslie.
Shout out to LeslieMeisenstroud.
She is actually the person who,in a parking lot at the
district office after a districtdepartment chair meeting, asked
me why I wasn't a nationalboard certified teacher yet and
really was that support personto be like?
You can do this.
And again, leslie and I kneweach other from department
(51:18):
meetings and became good friends.
We ended up working together.
But it's these little things,these little nuggets, that just
end up.
It can change the course ofyour career and it's such an
important thing.
Deb, we'll end with you.
Deb (51:36):
Well, I'm going to speak a little bit to both questions.
I want to echo what Craig saidabout trust, but I also think
that that administrators andpolicymakers need to listen to
teachers and not just give themlip service like they are
listening.
Listening because we know ourstudents and we know what our
(52:00):
students need.
And so please, please, please,trust your teacher's judgments,
listen to them and find ways tosupport them.
And then, on the flip side,with the new teachers and a
piece of advice I have had theabsolute delight this year to
work with a first year socialstudies teacher in a tiny Iowa
(52:21):
district.
That woman has six high schoolpreps a day and I just want to
get on my knees and bow in frontof her because she's not
letting herself get overrun.
We have decided that she willpick and choose each week one
(52:42):
lesson that she's going to workreally, really, really hard on
to put into that toolbox andcome back to next year.
And she has just grown so muchthis year as a teacher and her
skills as a teacher.
A teacher and her skills as ateacher Content knowledge was
(53:04):
always there, but putting itinto classes of 45 to 50 minutes
and chunking and looking atdifferent activities.
I look forward to the frantictexts that I get on a Wednesday
morning when Tuesday didn't gowell, and I don't mean that in a
negative way.
It's a way for me to reach outand help her.
The Sunday evening email sayingI'm going to try this idea.
(53:27):
What do you think?
She doesn't have anybody else,and so, because of my role with
Morningside University, I havebecome that person for her and I
just absolutely love workingwith this wonderfully talented
new teacher.
And so if you're an old personlike me or you are in the
(53:48):
process of ending a teachingcareer and looking at ways that
you can continue to help ourprofession, get involved in some
way to help these new teachersso that they can grow and they
can bloom where they're plantedand then they can be those
people for new teachers whenit's time for them to help out
(54:10):
and reach somebody else.
Liz (54:13):
I love that so much because I love that that teacher trusts
you and says like, oh my gosh,this didn't go well.
Because I think sometimes we'reyou know, especially new
teachers think everything has tobe perfect.
My lessons have to be amazing.
And I mean, even in my lastyear of teaching I was 17 years
teaching and I considered myselfa veteran teacher.
(54:35):
There were still mistakes.
But you get to a point where,especially if you have good
mentors and good people aroundyou, that you can say like, oh,
I had a lesson today.
It did not go very well.
Do you have any suggestions forme for the next period or for
the next time I teach it?
Deb (54:55):
and I'm gonna jump in there , liz, with about, about being
that sounding board and sayingyou know what I taught this one
time and it just blew up in myface.
They have to hear, as you said,it's okay to fail Because as a
classroom teacher, you can teacha lesson one way in one class
(55:16):
and have to pivot and teach thesame content and the standard in
a completely different way tothe next class coming in the
door.
I had a young lady watch meteach several class periods in a
row for a college assignmentand when we sat down at lunch
and we did a debrief, you know Iwanted her feedback as well.
(55:37):
She goes I watched threeclasses and you didn't teach it
the same way three times and Isaid why do you think that is
Because of the kids in theclassroom.
You knew what their needs wereand you had to adjust and you
just made those adjustmentsbecause you knew who was coming
in the door, who was coming inthe door.
(56:02):
So you know, trust your gut, dothe things that you know are
going to work, be willing tofail and also, as a veteran
teacher, be willing to reach outand help those first year young
teachers so they can besuccessful.
Liz (56:13):
Absolutely.
I just want to like stand andclap.
Craig, deb, Kristy, thank youso much.
Thank you for your expertise,everything you've done for the
cohort, but this podcast has somuch good in it and I can't wait
to share it with pre-serviceteachers I mean just teachers
around the nation.
(56:34):
Thank you for everything you doin your state, everything you
do for civic education.
I cannot overstate how much Iappreciate the work that you all
do.
Deb (56:46):
Well, and we appreciate everything you have done and I
know the experience for me hasjust this past year has just
been amazing.
Liz (56:58):
So thank you for your help as well.
Absolutely.
Kristy (57:00):
Way to be a rock star, liz, thank you.
Liz (57:03):
You are all rocks.
It's easy to be a rock starwhen I'm surrounded by other
rock stars.
I I will say I did not createone lesson because, again, I'm
not in the classroom right nowand working with teachers, like
you.
Like, even right now it is itis dinnertime here, arizona, and
I am going to have a hard timegoing to bed tonight because I'm
(57:25):
so on fire right now, and thisis what working with teachers
does.
So I want people to listen toteachers.
Teachers are the experts.
Listen to them, value, investin them, and that's where the
great outcomes come.
So, again, thank you all three.
I know you all have lives andso much to do and I really,
(57:49):
really appreciate, even thoughyou're running to karate or it's
nine o'clock where you are, itis late, but thank you all so
much.
I really appreciate you.
I am.
I always say I'm excited, but Ifeel like anytime I talk to
teachers it is exciting for mebecause these are the boots on
the ground.
This is where we have kind ofour front line of civic
education and today we aretalking to three members of the
civic literacy teacher cohortand we're talking about teacher
(00:21):
leadership in civics and I'mexcited to have these guests.
They span the country and theyalso span what they teach.
So I will have our first guest,deb, if you want to go ahead
and introduce yourself for ourpodcast listeners.
Deb (00:40):
My name is Deb Masker and I spent numerous years in the
classroom in Council BluffsPublic Schools, which is along
the Missouri River.
I have served as aninstructional coach focused in
(01:03):
social studies, and also theinternational baccalaureate
coordinator, and this year I'vetransitioned to a new role and I
am working with the teacherintern program through
Morningside University, and sowhen I started this program, I
was in the classroom and now Iam working with teachers in the
classroom.
This is my first year doingthat.
Liz (01:23):
For those of you who do not know where Council Bluffs is,
it is in the great state of Iowawhere.
I was born and still very muchhave lots of love for that state
, so I'm very happy we have twoIowa teachers on our cohort.
Kristy, what about you?
Kristy (01:43):
Well, I'm originally from Michigan, so that's where I
was born and raised, but now Icurrently live in Arizona.
I've been teaching eighth gradesocial studies for the past 19
years and honor social studiesavid, even PE, sprinkled in
along the way.
I've worked many years with theArizona Law and Legal
(02:09):
Foundation, also with iCivics.
I've had the opportunity tohelp write curriculum for the
World War II Museum and I thinkthe most probably proud educator
moment, I guess, for me isbecoming a nationally board
certified teacher.
Also, I'm a James Madisonfellow and I just love to teach,
(02:30):
so I love to mentor and I justlove to inspire students to
think critically about the worldaround them.
Liz (02:40):
Yes, Kristy is our James Madison Fellow, also another
National Board Certified Teacher.
Craig (02:46):
Speaking of James Madison Fellows and Michigan Craig,
I'll have you introduce yourselfteaching now for 29 years and
(03:07):
this is actually my last year,believe it or not and I did my
undergraduate work at CentralCollege in Pella.
Iowa.
So there's an Iowa connection aswell.
Got to connect everybodytogether here in our meeting.
And what I teach typically isI've been teaching AP US history
now for gosh 15, 16 years.
I think.
I actually started off teachingFrench many, many, many years
(03:31):
ago, but I also I know, right,total change.
But I also teach regular UShistory.
I've taught civics andeconomics and world history
history.
I've taught civics andeconomics and world history.
I also developed a class onWorld War II and the Holocaust
that I've taught toupperclassmen and I really enjoy
teaching that class because itallows students to really
(03:54):
explore a topic that they'rereally interested in much more
in depth, unlike, you know, apUS history where it's like, okay
, it's Tuesday, so it's WorldWar II, now let's do something
else.
You know, yes, other thingsthat I've done as well as I've
worked very closely withNational History Day over the
years, not just as a participantbut as a I've taken.
(04:18):
I've had students enrolled insome of their programs.
I went to Normandy and didresearch on World War II
veterans.
I also do some work with them,helping mentor teachers across
the country.
I've written curriculum withthe Pilecki Institute in Warsaw,
poland, about the Holocaust andalso for resistance to
(04:44):
totalitarian regimes.
So I try to get out there asmuch as I can, to you know, make
a difference in helpingteachers be able to access good
materials.
Liz (04:58):
I love that and I.
So this is a complete aside,but I am Craig's friend on
Duolingo and I know that you'vebeen doing years of Polish and
you are actually the reason Ihave such a long streak in
Spanish, because I'm like I needto get there.
So I love, I love watching theteachers I know learning and
(05:20):
growing personally, because Iknow that that also helps them
grow professionally.
So thank all three of you forbeing here.
I again this is, I think, oneof my favorite parts of the job
is to be able to talk toteachers.
So our first question teachersknow their students in their
classrooms better than anyone.
(05:41):
And, Kristy, I'm sure when wetalk about this too, this is one
of the tenets of the nationalboards.
Why do you think it's soimportant for educators to have
leadership roles in curriculumdevelopment rather than just
following pre-made lessons?
And, deb, I'm going to startwith you on this question.
Deb (06:00):
Well, I have been involved in Council Bluffs writing social
studies curriculum twodifferent times and we rewrite
curriculum every seven years.
And so for me, having that inclassroom, working with students
every day, knowing theirstrengths, knowing what skills
(06:21):
they come to us lacking a littlebit in, what skills they come
to lacking a little bit in it,allows me to help with the
curriculum development to helpmeet those needs that are
gapping and to capitalize onthose skills that they have that
are excellent, and I'm surethat the school district I
(06:41):
worked in is not different fromothers across the nation.
But in elementary school,unfortunately, they get a taste
of social studies and a taste ofscience and they may have
social studies for 45 minutesfor an entire week, and so when
they come to us at the middleschool, a lot of their skills
(07:04):
are not there.
So we have to help bring themup to speed, whether it's
reading primary documents orthose kinds of things.
So being able to assess mystudents' skills and know where
they're at and where we wantthem to become, that really
drives the curriculumdevelopment.
(07:25):
And, as all good teachers willtell you, they rewrite lessons
and rewrite curriculum everysingle day to meet the needs of
their students.
So when I have an opportunityto do that or be a part of a
group that's doing that, I feellike I am tapping into my
students and listening to themand where they need to grow and
(07:48):
develop and then help thatcurriculum build those skills.
Liz (07:54):
I love that, Craig.
What about you?
Craig (07:59):
It is really important for us to be part of that
curriculum development process.
Really important for us to bepart of that curriculum
development process.
Obviously, what we're doinghere over the course of the past
year, you know, we are doingkind of pre-made lessons.
That's what we're doing.
But because, you know, pre-madelessons aren't inherently bad,
it's how they're produced and Ithink all of us have been.
(08:22):
We have worked with pre-madelessons that come with textbooks
.
That's like who?
Who designed this?
You know, this person has notseen a classroom in like 20
years, you know, andexpectations for not only the
students but for the teachers isjust so out there.
It's like how can?
I would expect us to do this inthree days.
(08:43):
This is something that wouldtake three weeks, you know.
They just don't have theconnection with the classroom.
And so I think, you know,actually having classroom
teachers who are currentlyworking with students, who know
student strengths and weaknesses, kind of like what Deborah was
saying, but also know theconstraints that they have
(09:05):
within their own classroom,within their own district,
within their own community,having them develop lessons that
really fit and work for them, Ithink is invaluable, and so the
more that classroom teachersare involved in working with
curriculum development, I thinkthe more useful these lessons
will be and the more peopleactually will use them and not
(09:27):
have to modify things to make itfit, because it's like, look at
this, like, yep, this issomething that'll work because a
teacher actually developed it.
Liz (09:37):
And I think to post-COVID, because I left the classroom in
2020.
So my last semester was right,as everything was kind of
shutting down.
I will never pretend to knowwhat a post COVID classroom
looks like, because I've nevertaught in one right, even though
I have 17 years of teaching.
I have a lot of experience.
(09:58):
I don't know what that post is,and I think that that is one of
for me as a professional havingpeople that are in the
classroom who know like, yeah,maybe this lesson would have
worked in 2017, but in 2025,this is not working, because the
students in front of me areworking with different gaps,
they're working with lots ofdifferent things.
Craig (10:21):
Yes, I agree.
The post-COVID world is socompletely different, so if you
haven't been teaching since,then developing effective
lessons will be challenging.
Liz (10:34):
Absolutely Kristy.
What does that look like foryou?
Kristy (10:47):
was going to address what you just said, liz.
I think the biggest differenceof having teachers develop those
lessons is that we know ourstudents and nobody else does,
and that COVID gap is real.
And if you weren't teaching inthat time then it's really hard
to know how to address thosestudents because we're acting as
though those students are thesame and those students aren't.
Every year our students aredifferent and we feel that are
the same and those studentsaren't.
Every year our students aredifferent and we feel that in
(11:07):
the classroom and we can'treally build on curriculum until
we know the needs of ourstudents.
It is perfect.
As soon as you said that, Ithought of National Board and
it's really the foundation,right?
What do our students know andhow do we know our students?
And once we're able to achievethat, then we can reach out to
them.
But if we are not tapping intothat knowledge base of knowing
(11:32):
who our students are and thosegaps in their learning, then we
can't possibly even begin tocreate the curriculum that is
going to reach them and actuallystart to change their learning.
Liz (11:50):
Absolutely, and I'm trying to remember the.
I think it is teachers knowtheir students and how to teach
content to those students.
And and it is I mean I, Kristyand I taught in the same
district for a really long time.
We both taught middle schooland even I mean year to year, my
kids were different, but evenclass to class kids are
different.
So, yes, I might be teachingabout, you know, the
fundamentals of the constitution, but the way I have to change
(12:11):
that for every class to makesure and Deb brought this up too
you have to address the holesthat they might have from
elementary school school, and soI think that one of the gifts
that teachers have that oftenget overlooked is not only do
they know their content, butthey're looking at these 30 plus
people in front of them andsaying, okay, I need to make
(12:34):
sure they all get it.
How can I frame this andscaffold this to make sure that
that happens?
Kristy (12:41):
Absolutely.
I think that's it's imperative.
If you're going to developcurriculum, you have to have a
teacher that is in the classroom, that is current not only with
current students, but also withcurrent events.
Right, the way that our worldworks is that it's ever changing
and we need to be able to keepup on those changes and continue
to be lifelong learners, likewe want our students to be
(13:07):
continue to be lifelong learners, like we want our students to
be, absolutely so.
Liz (13:08):
My second question, then how has being part of the civic
literacy curriculum teachercohort allowed you to take
ownership of civic education?
I think that and I'm again I'mso tired of the word
unprecedented, but I can't thinkof any other way to say like it
just feels like every time weturn on the news or you know
anything, there's thingshappening that are just it's
(13:29):
moving so fast.
And can you share anyexperiences where your expertise
because you are all experts indifferent things how that
directly influenced thecurriculum that we created?
Craig, I will start with you.
Craig (13:43):
All right, you know, as far as taking ownership in civic
education, you know, as I'vebeen reaching the end of my
teaching career, I've beenlooking more and more to try to
give back, you know, to helpfuture teachers, because I know,
when I started off, I wasn'tcreating curriculum, I was
(14:06):
relying on other people providedfor me and oftentimes it wasn't
that great, you know, and so Iwant to leave the world a better
place as I am exiting education, and so for me being able to,
you know, review these lessonsand see the care that everybody
(14:29):
has put into these lessons tomake sure that they are
accessible to the teachers, thatwe can do these things, that
the students can actually beengaged and really learn from
the lessons, it's been reallyawesome to be part of that,
seeing the incredibly creativethings that teachers were coming
(14:53):
up with.
I have no doubt that theselessons will be incredibly
successful with students.
So I'm really looking forwardto hearing in the future how
these things actually turn out.
I wish I actually would be ableto use them myself, but you
know I'll be relaxing, maybesomebody will ask you.
Liz (15:13):
maybe somebody will ask you someday like, hey, craig, do
you have a really good lesson onthe judiciary?
And you can be like maybe Idon't right now because I'm out
of the classroom.
I have gone to a new portion ofmy life but I know that these
lessons exist because I'velooked at them, I've reviewed
them and I've had thatexperience.
Craig (15:31):
Exactly, and this is something that you know.
When teachers one of mycolleagues, people I meet from
around the country ask aboutwhere do I go to get good
lessons, this is definitelygoing to be one of the places
I'm directing them to, becausethis stuff is peer reviewed.
It is good stuff.
I am so happy to be part ofthis.
Liz (15:51):
And speaking of expertise and lessons, Kristy, one of my,
I mean, I loved I really didlove the process of putting
these all on the website becauseI got to read every single one.
And, Kristy, you created agovernment unit, kind of this
mini jigsaw that I feel justknowing you from all the years
(16:14):
that we've known each other andworked together, that's kind of
your jam.
So can you kind of talk aboutthat a little bit for our
listeners?
Kristy (16:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think.
When we are talking aboutlearners and how they've changed
, I think learners need to behands-on.
We need to get students to beable to interact with what we
want them to know and how torelate it to their own lives,
and I think Jigsaw is one of thebest FXx sizes to be able to
get students, so it just seemednatural for me to put it and
(16:51):
have students be part of a minigovernment.
Um, not only do I love to havethose students be interactive in
their learning, but I thinkit's just so important for them
to know our own civics.
Uh, as I take students outsideof the United States, it gives
us a really great way to comparedifferent government systems
(17:11):
and making it relevant andknowing that this government is
not just something they'relearning because we're
memorizing information orlearning about, you know, people
who died a long time ago.
Civics is alive and it'srunning right now in front of
our eyes.
So I think getting them to knowthat there's a relevancy in
that, that is something thatthey can interact with on a
(17:33):
daily basis.
I mean, I think, liz, you saidsomething like we can't even
turn on the TV without seeingsomething civic related, and I
think it really is our job associal studies teachers in
general to give students a voiceRight.
It's not about what we think,but it's about them developing
their own civic person and Ithink that can just be really
(17:54):
powerful.
And I think unfortunately,sometimes because of the
political climate, I thinkteachers shy away from these
difficult topics.
But it's really not about whatwe think.
It's about students being ableto develop their own thoughts
absolutely.
Liz (18:10):
We're teaching them how to think, not what to think, and
that is it's such an importantthing, because then, no matter
you know what comes up in thenews, with whatever
administration is in charge, wehave a way to talk about it.
It's again based in primarysources, it's based in founding
(18:31):
documents, and we allow studentsto blossom from that.
Deb, I feel like now that youare helping you are in the
classroom and now you're helpingteachers.
How does that work for you withyour experience doing that, and
how it's influencing curriculum?
Because now you're working withteachers.
Deb (18:53):
Well, I think it's really important, at least for me, that
teachers have a group ofprofessionals that they can work
with and count on, that theycan plan with, and I was
fortunate enough in my formerschool district to meet with
(19:13):
PLCs twice a week on a regularbasis and we were able to
collaborate and work together todevelop really were able to
work with each other, revieweach other's lessons and help
(19:38):
each one of us develop the bestlesson that we can possibly
develop for a particularstandard within the civics
curriculum.
I was just totally amazed at Idid the three to five and at the
creative ways that teachersapproached those students and
(19:58):
their needs and different waysto keep them engaged.
I really appreciate what Kristysaid about jigsawing.
That's one of my favorite waysfor students to work in the
classroom.
But I also challenge teachersto think about chunking their
lessons and trying to do adifferent kind of activity every
(20:20):
15, 12 to 15 minutes.
And I taught middle school foryears and our classrooms were
excuse me, our class periodswere an hour long, which was a
gift.
But how can we keep themengaged, keep them moving
forward and keep them listening,and I work really hard with
teachers every single day tohave them keep that engagement
(20:44):
in mind and how can we bringthat to them?
I was in a classroom todaywhere students were working on
different regions of the UnitedStates Amazingly, that's part of
the curriculum and I was goingoh, I have things that go with
that and shared them with thosepeople.
Had I known that that's exactlywhat they were going to be
working on before I went to theclassroom, I would have been a
(21:07):
little bit better prepared toshare things.
But I shared things when I leftand kids were excited about
learning about the differentregions of the United States and
what things were unique to eachof those reasons.
I want to piggyback on what yousaid about not shying away from
(21:27):
difficult topics.
I still am in contact with myPLCs from my former school
district and oftentimes I willget phone calls asking me how I
would approach a particularcontroversial topic that came
through the news.
And we go back to thosefounding documents, those
(21:50):
primary sources, and say whatdid the founding fathers put in
the constitution?
Why are these things in placeand why are they still relevant
today?
And I think our students arebeing challenged to go back to
those documents and to look atwhat those ideas were and how,
250 years later, thoseprinciples still ring true and
(22:16):
how important it is tounderstand those things.
I know the three branches ofgovernment and the balance of
power is very much in play rightnow.
And so what did the documentsay?
What do we know has worked inthe past?
And how is today different?
And I'm not saying it's better,worse.
I'm just saying and how istoday different?
(22:38):
And let the kids form theiropinions.
We can show them the documents,help them understand, help them
read the primary sources andthen, ultimately, they have to
make and devise their ownopinions.
Liz (22:56):
Absolutely.
And even looking at Federalist51, I think that I used to think
with my eighth graders well,that's too hard for them to read
, they can't do it and they can.
And the more you dive intothose documents with them and
have that productive struggleand look at, you know what did
Madison say?
(23:16):
And there's just so much moreto explore.
And I think that kids reallylike that because they are used
to TikTok, they're used to thesequick things, but having the
ability to work through aquestion and, you know, talk to
their peers and have a teacherfacilitating and guiding, I do
think students still reallyenjoyed that.
(23:39):
So curricular development isoften seen as something that's
done at the district or thestate level.
What are some ways thatteachers can advocate for their
voices to be heard in shapingwhat students learn and how they
learn?
And, Kristy, I will start withyou.
Kristy (23:58):
I think it's important to get involved.
I think a lot of times thecomplaints usually come from
teachers who aren't involved inthe process of what's happening.
For example, in my districtwe're doing common unit
assessments, right, so I can sitback and I can go oh gosh, I
just what's going to be on theseunit assessments, what are they
going to look like?
(24:18):
Or I can be a voice at thetable to help develop, you know,
these different units, justlike our literacy curriculum
that we were able to developthrough ASU.
Being able to be part of thatseat at the table, I think is so
powerful when you haveeducators that come together.
It's beautiful the things thatwe can create, especially having
(24:41):
this cohort that has peopleacross the country coming from
different backgrounds anddifferent experiences.
It's just such a wealth ofknowledge that we can learn from
one another.
And when we can learn from oneanother, then we can take those
experiences back to our students.
I really love going back to youknow.
Chunking those lessons is sovery important for our kids of
(25:02):
today because they're the youknow generation of being
entertained, especially sinceCOVID, a lot of these kiddos
grew up with you know,technology in their hands all
the time and so being able tocollaborate and get involved.
Then we can be part of thesolution instead of just stating
the problem.
Liz (25:24):
I love that and I think that you don't have to have a
title to be a leader.
That is, I think.
Sometimes people think, well, Ihave to be a department head, I
have to be something else andyou don't Deb.
What are your thoughts?
Deb (25:38):
Well, I agree with what Kristy said.
I said I think as teachers wehave to advocate for our
students and we also have toadvocate for ourselves.
The district that I was a partof has district assessments in
social studies and they werecreated by a non-classroom
(25:59):
teacher and when we were firsthanded them I think aghast was
the best word that I could comeup with Um and we um put our
feet down and stood strong andwere able to make changes in
(26:21):
those district assessmentsbecause we wanted to make sure
that the skills were beingassessed, but in a way that our
kids could also feel um goodabout themselves, that they had
knowledge and had the originalquestions stayed in place.
Our kids would have felt prettyhopeless with those tests.
(26:42):
Now, would they be a great goalto strive for with some of the
way that the skills questionswere written?
Absolutely, and are we givingup on getting to that point?
No, but you have to know whereyour kids are at and what they
can understand and when you aska question of which they have no
(27:04):
background knowledge, have noconcept of what the question is
about in the historical context,they can't do the skill.
So we just have to reallylisten to the teachers and
listen to those people that arein the classroom and give them
credit for what they do know,and you can be that voice in
(27:28):
your PLCs in your district.
At the state level, I know thestate of Iowa is going through
another curriculum revision andthey asked for people to
volunteer and I volunteered as acommunity member.
Haven't heard back if I'm inthe group or not, that's neither
here nor there but I wanted tomake sure that there was a
(27:48):
community member that had somesemblance of knowledge of social
studies curriculum so thatvoice could be heard in the
writing of the state newcurriculum.
So I just think you have toadvocate for yourself and you
have to advocate for yourstudents so that they can become
(28:09):
successful.
Liz (28:12):
I love that and I love talking about standards, because
I mean every state has to gothrough standards review and
they do ask for teachers, theyask for community members, and
so that's really powerful.
Craig, what does it look likefor you?
Craig (28:29):
I think, going back to what Kristy had said, it's
important to get involved.
You just have to get yourself,put yourself out there, let your
administration know that youwant to take part in this
process.
Volunteer, where you can Getinvolved on committees, like I
know within my own district,like there are curriculum
(28:53):
steering committees at variouslevels and sometimes they have a
hard time getting enoughteachers actually on those
committees, which to me is a isa crime.
It's like if you want to havebetter curriculum, if you want
to have a voice, you have to,you have to get involved and do
that.
And because as teachers, weneed to feel ownership in what
(29:15):
we're doing, to actually reallyfeel passionate about it.
If we're just given somethingthat we know that it was
developed by someone who's notreally a classroom teacher, who
just is kind of check, you know,checking the boxes to make sure
this is done, then it's notgoing to be very successful.
But if we know that either weor our close colleagues are
(29:36):
getting involved in thesecommittees to help develop this
curriculum that we're using inour classrooms, it's going to be
so much more effective in thelong run.
Also, in my district we have atleast in my building.
We have something calledCritical Friends, which is kind
of like a PLC type ofenvironment where teachers are
encouraged to come together oncea month and just share ideas
(29:59):
like what's been successful inthe classroom, what have we been
doing that works, what are somegood resources that we found
online or in various otherplaces that we can share with
one another to be moresuccessful in the classroom.
And I think doing somethinglike that, even just kind of
bypassing administration in someways, can be really helpful,
(30:20):
but also then sharing that withadministration saying hey, we as
teachers, we have found this,we're using this.
It's successful.
You know, can you allow us todo more things like this?
So I think that that's one of agood way of advocating for
yourselves.
Liz (30:39):
And I think good administrators appreciate when
teachers take the initiative tosay here, you know, in our PLC,
here's something that we'vetried.
Can we get more backing on this?
I think that there areadministrators really good
administrators out there thatare like there are
administrators really goodadministrators out there that
are like absolutely, this soundsawesome.
(31:00):
Let me you know and all of thisleads to my next question.
You know, collaboration isreally key to building strong
curriculum.
How is working with othereducators whether it's through
our cohort or your own networks,because you all have your own
networks how has that helpedstrengthen your approach to
civic education?
So I know I mean my network isvery large because over two
(31:21):
decades it just builds.
Craig, I met you for the firsttime in 2016 at Ashland
University.
Craig (31:29):
It has been a while.
Liz (31:31):
It has.
Wow, that has been a long timeand you know, Kristy, we've
worked together.
Deb, this is our first timeworking together and I
definitely know that it's notgoing to be our last, because
these networks kind of build.
So how is working withdifferent educators, whether
it's in your state or out of thestate?
Help strengthen your approachto civic education and, Deb,
I'll start with you on this one.
Deb (32:01):
Well and I went to Ashland in 2019.
I was not a James Madisonfellow, but I was a Buchholz
scholar for a week and probablyone of my greatest learning
experiences that I had adifferent way to approach a
college education class ahistory education class.
It was on Jefferson and I justreally appreciate the
(32:27):
opportunity at Ashland.
It's important to have thosenetworks.
I've been blessed with theopportunities of going to the
George Washington TeachersInstitute, the Mount Vernon
Teachers Institute and the WhiteHouse Teachers Institute in the
past couple of years and thosepeople that I have met at those
(32:54):
organizations and through thatweek-long experience at each one
of those have helped my networkgrow tremendously.
I have a dear friend inColumbia, south Carolina, that I
sat next to at the GeorgeWashington Teachers Institute,
at the George WashingtonTeachers Institute, and we now
(33:15):
plan and have presented at theNational Council of History of
Education Conference, not thisyear but the last two years, and
that network grew because ofthose experiences.
So I think being able to talkto other teachers, see what
they're doing in the classroom,pick their brains, for lack of a
better way to say it.
(33:36):
What are you doing and how areyou meeting this needs for
children and what kind ofchunking do you do and how do
you get engagement?
All of those are so important,but it's really important in
today's world that our studentshave a really good understanding
of civic education and so beingable to be a part of those
(33:58):
networks and go to thosedifferent learning experiences I
brought back such a wealth ofnew understanding materials to
use in the classroom to theteachers in my district.
One day they said are you evergoing to be quiet about what you
learned?
And I said no, I'm not.
I'm so excited, nope.
(34:19):
And so those things areimportant and teachers, at least
in my former district, lovedwhen I would come in and team
teach with them and work throughdifferent things that I had
experienced and especially withbeing able to tie those things
(34:41):
to the civic education that wedo in American history in eighth
grade just is a great way tocollaborate and to build those
networks.
Build those networks and youknow Facebook is not great for a
lot of things, but Facebook isgreat for continuing to have
those connections.
So now I know somebody at theLBJ library and I know someone
(35:06):
who knew May Cryer, who was aRosie the Riveter and is 98
years old, and my NationalHistory Day student got to speak
with her last year over GoogleMeet and she got to hear about
this wonderful woman'sexperience as a woman in World
War II.
She talked about, you know,growing from that experience and
(35:30):
, you know, when she was able tostep out on her own.
I just think all those networksare so important and keeping
those connections with thosepeople will just help you grow
as a teacher.
Liz (35:45):
A thousand percent and it's , I think, one of my very
favorite things about civics,social studies, history teachers
is I never feel like I'm incompetition.
I always feel like I'm acompetitive mate, like we're all
in this together.
So if I, if I am strugglingwith something, I, I I actually
(36:06):
think I've text Craig to be likehey, because we also went to
the National Constitution Centerand tried new coffee shops in
Philadelphia and, craig, youhave a huge network as well, so
not only the Madison Network,but you've been to so many
different professionaldevelopments and I feel like
(36:28):
your network is enormous.
So how has that kind of helpedyou?
Craig (36:32):
Oh, my, I can't even begin to explain how much it's
helped me I mean, when I firststarted, when I transitioned
from teaching French to teachinghigh school history and civics
and everything else, I reallyfelt isolated and alone, because
the people in my department, inmy high school, at that point
in time, they're all older, theyreally didn't care.
(36:53):
They're basically like, well,you have a in time, they're all
older, they really didn't care.
They're basically like, well,you have a textbook and the
lesson plans there, what else doyou need?
And so I went out and found theopportunities for myself.
That's when I started gettinginvolved in the NEH and National
History Day Gilder Lehrman, allthe other great resources out
there, and sort of making thoseconnections, and that made me
(37:16):
realize that history, education,civics education can be
exciting and there are peopleout there who are passionate
about it and who are constantlytrying to make the curriculum
better every single year.
You know, one thing I starteddoing very early on was I got
(37:38):
rid of, like, my lesson planbook that you know teachers
would pull out the lesson planbook and use the same lessons
every year, year after year yes.
No, every single year it's kindof like from scratch.
What am I going to do this year?
How's it going to be different?
How's it going to be better?
It's kind of like from scratch.
What am I going to do this year?
How's it going to be different?
How's it going to be better?
(37:59):
And I rely on my friends thatI've met through these networks
to help me in that process.
You know there are, like myNormandy Institute, people from
National History Day.
We went to Normandy togetherback in was it 2019?
I think it was so what six,seven years ago now?
And we text each other everysingle day.
We have a group chat and wewill go in there and say, hey,
(38:20):
I'm teaching this, what ideas doyou have?
What websites do you know I cango to, as well as other?
You know we just, you know,talk about random subjects as
well, but you know, having thatsource I can go to is amazing.
You know, having you as aresource.
You know we met, like you said,in 2016 at Ashland and we've
(38:40):
kept in contact and you knowthat's made teaching so much
more enjoyable to me and I can'timagine doing this and being as
passionate as I've been inhistory and civics education
without these connections.
Deb (38:59):
I went to the National History Day Sacrifice for
Freedom in the Pacific in 2023.
And those connections again, asCraig said, we talk to each
other all the time, we text eachother, we email each other and
(39:20):
again, it's that additional wayfor your network to grow.
It was an amazing experiencewith my student, amazing
research experience to be ableto prepare that eulogy for the
fallen soldier from CouncilBluffs but, at the same time, to
(39:40):
work with all of the otherteachers over the course of the
semester as we prepared.
Those are just experiences andfriendships and collegiality
that you cannot find anywhereelse.
Liz (39:56):
And I'm like you, deb.
I was not a Madison Fellow.
I got a scholarship to do oneclass and for any teacher out
there, that's like I don't wantto go alone, like what if I
don't know anybody?
I went to Ashland Universityand I didn't know anybody.
And Craig and Linda and Kim, andmy old government teacher, lisa
(40:18):
Adams, who has passed, and myold government teacher, lisa
Adams, who has passed justeverybody opens their arms and I
feel like my favorite thing Imean my favorite thing about
social studies teachers is thatopen arm and like, yes, let's
bring you in and you can go tothese things alone.
(40:48):
And, like you said, you leaveand you have all these group
chats and you have emails andyou have new Facebook friends
and the one reason I've keptFacebook is because that's how I
keep in touch with of myfavorite.
My favorite stories is that youand I showed up to, you know,
hta and our girls are now inkindergarten together, but we
taught in the same district andwe we did a lot of the same
(41:12):
professional developments.
But you are a Madison fellow,you are a national board
certified teacher, so you havethat you know expansive network
as well.
So how has that worked for youBecause you are also girl, a
world traveler, and every breakI am watching your Instagram to
see where you're going with yourfamily, cause it's just so fun.
Kristy (41:35):
Yeah, I mean it's hard to really add much more to you
know no-transcript somethingpowerful that happens when you
(42:12):
travel and you learn, becauseyou become bonded to these
people who maybe you just met afew days ago but all of a sudden
have now become like lifelongfriends.
It is it's hard to reallyexplain unless you've actually
gone through it yourself or havetraveled somewhere yourself.
And I think maybe that's why Ido love to take students and
(42:34):
people across differentcountries and nations.
Because of that, and peopleacross different countries and
nations because of that, I don'tknow that learning right, that
learning happens and it's justso real and tangible.
And I mean, even on thispodcast, just listening to Deb
and Craig talking about theirexperiences, I'm already
(42:54):
learning and passionate aboutwhat they're doing and thinking.
Oh, that sounds so cool.
I think.
Also I want to talk about, likewhat you're saying is it's not
really a competitive thing, it'smore of a wow, that's so
fascinating.
Let me look that up.
I would like to be interestedin that too.
Or that sounds amazing Like Iwant to become a better educator
in that field or in that youknow type of unit or of study
(43:19):
that maybe you didn't evenconsider before.
So I think I don't know.
I just think there's somethingthat happens at these places
where we get to meet othereducators that are passionate
and super nerdy Like I'm a supernerd and I can't help it but
when we get together we nerd outand we can't help but really
have those bonds that arecreated in these moments and
(43:42):
it's just really cool and it'sinspiring.
Honestly, when I meet otherpeople, I find inspiration.
Every time I meet someone andhear their story and you know,
and it challenges me to be abetter person.
Honestly.
Liz (43:58):
I love that.
And, craig, I do want to goback to what you said, because I
so I taught in the samedistrict as Kristy for 11 years.
I moved to a new district, Itaught AP government and I felt
incredibly isolated becausethere was no other AP government
teacher on my campus and Ithink that everyone thought well
, you've been a teacher for along time, you're nationally
(44:19):
board certified, you're fine,and I was drowning and it
genuinely was things like goingto Ashland.
We took a class on politicalparties and I learned more in
expanding that and teachingdoesn't have to be so isolating.
Okay, so if you could giveadvice to school leaders and
(44:40):
policymakers about how to bettersupport teacher-led curriculum
development, what would you say?
Or I'll give you an alternativequestion for that new teacher
who is either new to the subject, new to teaching in general,
regardless of age, because wehave a lot of people who come in
as second career teachers whatadvice would you give them?
(45:03):
And there's been so much goodadvice here, but you are all
veterans and you're all expertsat what you do and in your
classroom.
So I want to leave ourlisteners with advice.
And, craig, I'm going to startwith you, my friend, all right.
Craig (45:19):
If I were to give advice to school leaders, I would say
the biggest piece of advice istrust your teachers.
Trust your teachers.
Trust your teachers.
They're the ones who are in theclassroom with the students
every single day.
They know their students, theyknow their strengths, they know
(45:42):
their weaknesses.
They know their own personalstrengths and weaknesses.
And so if a teacher comes to youand says I'm looking for more
resources, I want to expand mynetwork, I want to find better
ways of teaching this.
Trust them and encourage themin that process.
(46:03):
Direct them towards NationalHistory Day.
Direct them towards all thesegreat places that are out there.
Direct them to senior teacherswho maybe have gone through the
process like me, for example, inmy building.
I'm the most senior person inmy department and I am happy to
(46:24):
sit down with anybody and tellthem how to improve upon what
they're doing and where to findgreat resources.
But I think it comes down tothe administration trusting
their teachers that when thoseteachers come to them and ask
them for assistance and askwhere they can go to encourage
them to run with it, say here'swhere you can go and I want you
(46:45):
to do it to have a.
This is a professionaldevelopment day for you.
You're not losing any time.
Go ahead and do this, and Ithink that'll make the make it
so much better.
Liz (46:56):
Yes, trust your teachers and invest in your teachers,
because that is, I think, thebest investment is that, even if
you're just giving aprofessional day, because
everything else is is taken careof.
I love that.
Kristy, what advice do you have?
Kristy (47:13):
Well, I'm going to go ahead and answer about the new
teacher, because I think we'veseen a huge burnout rate.
I don't think there's a lot ofpeople, younger people, going
into the profession as muchanymore and there's a lot of
challenges with that.
And I think often it's becausethey don't feel supported.
And I think in teaching ingeneral, you know it's a very
(47:34):
intrinsic rewards type of job.
We don't tend to see thoseextrinsic very often.
It's the reason why, you know,teachers go into it not
necessarily for the money butfor the passion and, I think,
being able to keep that passionalive in a young teacher or when
I say young, or maybe just newteacher.
In general, most people whenthey go into teaching, they're
very excited about their craftand then they might not feel
(47:58):
supported in some of thesituations, whether it's parents
or curriculum work or justbehavioral students.
And I think we could do abetter job of being able to
support those new teachers withmentors and really making it a
priority to not only supportthem with curriculum but for
student behaviors and parents.
(48:20):
I think we all remember whatit's like to be a student
teacher and how difficult thatwas, but I think we just need to
continue to lift them up andtell them that it's okay.
It's okay to fail, it's okay tolearn from your mistakes, and
you know growth is part of thisprofession.
But I also think having thosetangible, quick ways to go back
(48:44):
to what Deb was saying ischunking those lessons, giving
them good instructionalmaterials so they can be
successful off the bat, I thinkcan really be helpful.
Liz (48:56):
I love that too.
I love that too.
And if you are in a situationwhere you and your building
maybe don't have somebody tomentor you, I think this is
where you start reaching out andyou can absolutely start with
me at ASU, because I have anetwork and I can connect you to
people that I know will want tohelp and want to mentor you.
And that is a very genuinething that I want to put out
(49:21):
there, because my degree was inearly childhood education and I
ended up teaching eighth gradesocial studies and I had mentors
at my very first school who,because I taught English and
social studies and the Englishdepartment chair said we will
not let you fail, and havingthat support and then moving
(49:47):
schools and having a reallystrong admin team got me to
where I was.
So if you are in a situationwhere you don't necessarily have
that, start reaching out and ifyou need to start with me
lizevansasuedu it's the easiestemail ever, deb, we're going to
end with you.
Kristy (50:04):
Oh, go ahead, oh sorry I was just going to piggyback up
on that, liz.
I think having a strong mentoris really key, just like having
a strong mentor teacher whenyou're learning your craft as
student teaching, when you'refirst getting into a building,
and if you don't have anybody,it really is kind of a fight or
flight method there.
I mean, I remember for me evenearly on having Leslie be there
(50:27):
to mentor me and encourage me,and hopefully everybody has that
someone, because if you don'thave that someone, I think
that's where you are feeling youknow failure and not support,
and I think that is really key.
So I think that's awesome thatyou kind of put that out there
for people, because it really isjust so important to make sure
(50:50):
that people are feelingsupported and lifting up and
learning together.
Liz (50:55):
I love that you brought up Leslie.
Shout out to LeslieMeisenstroud.
She is actually the person who,in a parking lot at the
district office after a districtdepartment chair meeting, asked
me why I wasn't a nationalboard certified teacher yet and
really was that support personto be like?
You can do this.
And again, leslie and I kneweach other from department
(51:18):
meetings and became good friends.
We ended up working together.
But it's these little things,these little nuggets, that just
end up.
It can change the course ofyour career and it's such an
important thing.
Deb, we'll end with you.
Deb (51:36):
Well, I'm going to speak a little bit to both questions.
I want to echo what Craig saidabout trust, but I also think
that that administrators andpolicymakers need to listen to
teachers and not just give themlip service like they are
listening.
Listening because we know ourstudents and we know what our
(52:00):
students need.
And so please, please, please,trust your teacher's judgments,
listen to them and find ways tosupport them.
And then, on the flip side,with the new teachers and a
piece of advice I have had theabsolute delight this year to
work with a first year socialstudies teacher in a tiny Iowa
(52:21):
district.
That woman has six high schoolpreps a day and I just want to
get on my knees and bow in frontof her because she's not
letting herself get overrun.
We have decided that she willpick and choose each week one
(52:42):
lesson that she's going to workreally, really, really hard on
to put into that toolbox andcome back to next year.
And she has just grown so muchthis year as a teacher and her
skills as a teacher.
A teacher and her skills as ateacher Content knowledge was
(53:04):
always there, but putting itinto classes of 45 to 50 minutes
and chunking and looking atdifferent activities.
I look forward to the frantictexts that I get on a Wednesday
morning when Tuesday didn't gowell, and I don't mean that in a
negative way.
It's a way for me to reach outand help her.
The Sunday evening email sayingI'm going to try this idea.
(53:27):
What do you think?
She doesn't have anybody else,and so, because of my role with
Morningside University, I havebecome that person for her and I
just absolutely love workingwith this wonderfully talented
new teacher.
And so if you're an old personlike me or you are in the
(53:48):
process of ending a teachingcareer and looking at ways that
you can continue to help ourprofession, get involved in some
way to help these new teachersso that they can grow and they
can bloom where they're plantedand then they can be those
people for new teachers whenit's time for them to help out
(54:10):
and reach somebody else.
Liz (54:13):
I love that so much because I love that that teacher trusts
you and says like, oh my gosh,this didn't go well.
Because I think sometimes we'reyou know, especially new
teachers think everything has tobe perfect.
My lessons have to be amazing.
And I mean, even in my lastyear of teaching I was 17 years
teaching and I considered myselfa veteran teacher.
(54:35):
There were still mistakes.
But you get to a point where,especially if you have good
mentors and good people aroundyou, that you can say like, oh,
I had a lesson today.
It did not go very well.
Do you have any suggestions forme for the next period or for
the next time I teach it?
Deb (54:55):
and I'm gonna jump in there , liz, with about, about being
that sounding board and sayingyou know what I taught this one
time and it just blew up in myface.
They have to hear, as you said,it's okay to fail Because as a
classroom teacher, you can teacha lesson one way in one class
(55:16):
and have to pivot and teach thesame content and the standard in
a completely different way tothe next class coming in the
door.
I had a young lady watch meteach several class periods in a
row for a college assignmentand when we sat down at lunch
and we did a debrief, you know Iwanted her feedback as well.
(55:37):
She goes I watched threeclasses and you didn't teach it
the same way three times and Isaid why do you think that is
Because of the kids in theclassroom.
You knew what their needs wereand you had to adjust and you
just made those adjustmentsbecause you knew who was coming
in the door, who was coming inthe door.
(56:02):
So you know, trust your gut, dothe things that you know are
going to work, be willing tofail and also, as a veteran
teacher, be willing to reach outand help those first year young
teachers so they can besuccessful.
Liz (56:13):
Absolutely.
I just want to like stand andclap.
Craig, deb, Kristy, thank youso much.
Thank you for your expertise,everything you've done for the
cohort, but this podcast has somuch good in it and I can't wait
to share it with pre-serviceteachers I mean just teachers
around the nation.
(56:34):
Thank you for everything you doin your state, everything you
do for civic education.
I cannot overstate how much Iappreciate the work that you all
do.
Deb (56:46):
Well, and we appreciate everything you have done and I
know the experience for me hasjust this past year has just
been amazing.
Liz (56:58):
So thank you for your help as well.
Absolutely.
Kristy (57:00):
Way to be a rock star, liz, thank you.
Liz (57:03):
You are all rocks.
It's easy to be a rock starwhen I'm surrounded by other
rock stars.
I I will say I did not createone lesson because, again, I'm
not in the classroom right nowand working with teachers, like
you.
Like, even right now it is itis dinnertime here, arizona, and
I am going to have a hard timegoing to bed tonight because I'm
(57:25):
so on fire right now, and thisis what working with teachers
does.
So I want people to listen toteachers.
Teachers are the experts.
Listen to them, value, investin them, and that's where the
great outcomes come.
So, again, thank you all three.
I know you all have lives andso much to do and I really,
(57:49):
really appreciate, even thoughyou're running to karate or it's
nine o'clock where you are, itis late, but thank you all so
much.
I really appreciate you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com