April 7, 2025 • 48 mins
Teachers on the frontlines of civic education share strategies for empowering students to become confident, engaged citizens through structured resources and collaborative learning approaches.
• Teachers face three main challenges in civic education: time constraints, lack of resources, and hesitation around controversial topics
• Quality structured lessons and primary source documents reduce barriers for educators at all levels
• Elementary students benefit from perspective-taking exercises that create emotional connections to civic concepts
• Middle school teachers can use historical examples as gateways to discussing complex contemporary issues
• High school civic education should focus on fundamental knowledge before tackling controversial topics
• Empowered civics teachers embrace failure, promote respectful discussion, and demonstrate lifelong learning
• Many effective civics educators describe themselves as "accidental civics teachers" who discovered their passion for the subject
• Creating "civically curious" students means teaching skills over content and modeling how to find answers
• Civic education belongs everywhere - not just in social studies classrooms
• Teachers must recognize they're often providing civic knowledge students aren't getting elsewhere
Check out the Civic Literacy Curriculum for free, adaptable lessons created by practicing teachers for all grade levels.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Liz Evans (00:00):
I am thrilled because it feels like there's nobody
better to hype up teachers thanother teachers, teachers that
are practicing teachers that arein the classroom right now.
So today we're talking abouthow empowering teachers in
civics leads to stronger, moreconfident educators and better
(00:21):
prepared students.
And I am very lucky to havethree amazing teachers with me
who are also part of our CivicLiteracy Curriculum teacher
cohort, so you'll know the namesbecause you'll probably have
looked at their lessons and usedthem in your classroom, so I'm
going to have them introducethemselves.
(00:42):
Rebecca, I will actually startwith you if you want to tell us
a little bit about yourself.
Rebecca Helland (00:47):
Well, thank you for inviting me to join the
program.
I appreciate the opportunity tohave a chat with you today.
My name is Rebecca Helland.
I professionally mess with theminds of fifth graders and have
for a very long time Also havebeen involved in some social
studies initiatives across thestate in Iowa and working with
(01:12):
standards and things like that,as well as professional learning
for teachers about how socialstudies can be effectively done
and well done in the elementaryclassroom.
So have a passion for seeingkids' curiosity grow, and social
studies and civics are a greatway to foster that.
Liz Evans (01:33):
Thank you, and next up I'm going to introduce Jamie.
She is in our middle schoolportion of the cohort.
Jamie Warner (01:40):
Yes, thank you for inviting me.
My name is Jamie Warner.
I teach in suburban New Jerseyand I'm currently teaching
civics and also ancient worldand medieval world, so it's
quite an interesting mix for me.
Teaching middle school studentsabout civics in this moment, I
think, is one of the mostimportant things I'll ever do,
and I really take a lot of pridein creating the most engaging
(02:02):
lessons I can to make it asrelevant as possible to their
lives, recognizing that you knowthey're moving on to the high
school shortly as an eighthgrade teacher and they really
need to be well equipped with,you know, all the research
skills and media literacy skillsand things of that nature to
navigate the world that we'recurrently living in and I think
(02:22):
it's so intertwined with civicsin the modern day.
So I'm really excited to behere and to talk to my
colleagues about best practicesand, you know, to continue to
learn from each other.
Liz Evans (02:33):
Wonderful.
And, lastly, we have a memberof our high school cohort,
brandon, will you introduceyourself?
Brandon Westlake (02:40):
Yeah, thanks for inviting me, Liz.
I am a 15-year veteran of highschool.
I'm currently in St Louis,missouri, where I am at St
Joseph's Academy.
I serve as the department chairthere now and kind of dabble in
all sorts of extracurricularthings whenever I'm needed.
(03:02):
But I think that being a highschool teacher, like Jamie said,
that this is a key moment foreverybody, because I have
students who come to me who are,you know, just right on the
verge.
Sometimes they are able to vote, but they are right there where
they are getting interested,they see where these issues
(03:23):
connect to their own lives, andso they come with a lot of
questions and a lot of curiosity.
That's exciting, but it canalso be a little frightening
sometimes, and so I really lovethe ability to kind of just
intellectually grapple with that, with this initiative, and just
(03:48):
to be able to kind of workthrough how would I approach all
of these different topics.
So I'm glad to be able to talkthis out today.
Liz Evans (03:57):
Awesome.
Well, again, thank you all somuch.
So my first question I meanteachers are really at the heart
of civic education.
I was a teacher for 17 years.
I believe that teachers shouldbe in places where decisions are
made.
There's often, though,challenges like time constraints
, lack of resources orhesitations around controversial
(04:20):
topics.
We have another podcast episodethat I did with Alan Carey,
which is actually already out oncivil discourse, and he talks
about that, but how has being apart of this teacher cohort kind
of help you overcome some ofthese challenges, and how do you
think that teachers can utilizesome of this stuff to help
(04:40):
overcome the challenges in theirclassroom?
And, Rebecca, I will start withyou on that.
Rebecca Helland (04:46):
Yeah, so a couple of things.
For us as elementary teachers,I think it's always a battle of
resources and time to accessthose resources.
So having primary sources,having quality questions, having
lessons that are laid out,organized, easily accessible,
those are all things that reducebarriers for us as teachers
(05:09):
when it comes to time andputting together quality lessons
and conversation points for ourstudents.
Another definite barrier that Ithink a lot of us as elementary
teachers face is not reallysure how to navigate those
controversial topics anddifficult conversations, and so
sometimes it becomes easy tosort of say well, I just didn't
(05:31):
have time to get those things in.
We were working on lots ofgreat reading things today and
we just didn't have time forsocial studies.
We didn't have time to talkabout some of those hard things.
I think those are greatopportunities for conversations
with colleagues and growprofessionally.
We need to be equipping ourkids with the right language to
(05:52):
use the way to talk with eachother in a civil way and talk
about real things that matter tokids, because those are real
things that matter to kids.
They're curious about thosethings.
They've heard snippets, theyhave misconceptions and it's an
opportunity to be able tounderstand where kids are coming
(06:13):
from and have a chance to getsome of those things out and
have a chance to talk about someof the things that we may or
may not be proud of when itcomes to a historical context,
but are hugely formational inwhere we are today as a country.
And that's something that kidsare.
Maybe they haven't thought ofit in terms, in those terms, but
(06:34):
they're definitely curiousabout when we get there.
Liz Evans (06:39):
I love that especially.
You know.
I think that educating forAmerican Democracy framework
calls it reflective patriotism,right, like we have to study all
of it because it's part of whowe are as a nation.
Absolutely, I love that,brandon.
What does that look like in ahigh school setting?
Brandon Westlake (06:58):
You know, it's in some ways oddly similar to
Rebecca's experience, because Ithink time, if I'm thing that
teachers would necessarily haveto worry about as they're trying
(07:30):
to find what works best fortheir students and how they can
adapt some of these in highschool, these very abstract
ideas, to their lives, and beingable to find a way that it will
kind of grab students'attention.
And I think that, with all ofthe controversy and the
(07:54):
unsettleness about civics, thething that I think is so
important here that I learnedand I kind of talk about this
with my colleagues is the ideaof confidence through our
colleagues, and I think that wecan see this here in that these
are ideas that are generated byteachers.
(08:14):
They're things that teachersare doing in their classrooms
now, they're things that workwith students now, and that
isn't to say that we wouldn'tencourage teachers, you know to
to adapt and to make somechanges where it would fit best
with their own you know theirown classrooms.
But I think that here areexamples of of starting points
(08:36):
and whether that be the primarysources or just even lessons, or
maybe even you know, discussionstarters, where it's one less
thing that they have to worryabout and then they can kind of
take and manipulate on their own.
Liz Evans (08:53):
And there is.
I mean, every lesson that is upon the website was made by a
practicing teacher.
You're all practicing teachersand a lot of these too.
And, jamie, I'm coming to younext because I'm specifically
thinking and I want to rememberwhich lesson it is.
But I remember looking at oneof the lessons you put for
middle school, because I taughtmiddle school for so long and I
(09:15):
was like I want to go back inthe classroom and do this lesson
because it looks so fun, and Iwill find it and I will put it
in our show notes because Iremember writing it down and
being like this looks so fun,like this is something I want my
daughter to do because she iscurrently an eighth grader.
So, jamie, what does it looklike for middle schoolers?
Jamie Warner (09:39):
um, when I'm thinking about all the things
that we've mentioned so far,right, you kind of let off with
that three-headed monster ofteaching civics right now.
Right, the lack of time, thelack of resources and kind of
this discomfort with talkingabout certain topics.
You know, especially for me in amiddle school classroom, the
number one thing that I considermost important is creating that
respectful environment whereeverybody knows that their voice
(09:59):
can be heard and, you know, wecan kind of work through, as you
mentioned, those misconceptionsthat students may bring in and
just kind of share our ideasopenly and have this respect and
understanding that we can learnfrom each other through
furthering what it is we'restudying or talking about on any
given day.
And I find that being a part ofthis cohort and utilizing the
(10:21):
lessons that are providedthrough it have just enhanced my
teaching and made all of thosethings that three-headed monster
so much easier.
Right, there's less discomfort,there's certainly much more
time and just an amazingcompendium of resources that
we're able to utilize andimplement.
And I have just such confidencein knowing that my colleagues
have worked hard to thoughtfullycraft them and that they're
(10:44):
vetted and we've had discussionsabout them and they've been
reviewed and it just gives mesuch a positive feeling being
able to pull from that andimplement it in my own classroom
, but also makes me think aboutbrand new teachers and novice
teachers who are entering thesocial studies profession right
now, who, I imagine, must feelso much more of a sense of
(11:04):
overwhelm just because they'renot the seasoned veteran that
some of us might be.
And you know, this, I think, isgoing to be one of the most
helpful resources that theycould utilize if they're looking
to teach civics and to planthoughtfully to engage students
in this current time.
Liz Evans (11:23):
I love that you bring up new teachers right, because
I think that one of my favoritethings about this curriculum as
a whole is it is if you are abrand new teacher and literally
K through adult right and you'relike I need a lesson on who the
current president is.
I need a lesson on why we saythe Pledge of Allegiance.
There are lessons K throughadult that a teacher does in
(11:46):
their classroom and you have alllooked at other people's
lessons.
This is not just somethingpeople make up and throw on the
internet and everything is freeand it's a Google Doc.
So if you want to changeanything because it works better
for your classroom, you havethe ability to do that.
And I absolutely I'm so gladyou brought up the new teachers
(12:07):
because we do not want to leavethose new teachers behind.
And I love your analogy of thethree-headed monster of teaching
civics.
That is like, because now I'mthinking about, like all these
cohort members, as monsterslayers, like going through and
doing that.
So the civic literacycurriculum is designed to
provide structured, engaginglessons in civics.
(12:30):
I'd like you guys to share howusing the civic literacy
curriculum changed or enhancedthe way you've taught, or if
there's any specific lessons orresources that you feel have
impacted your students andBrandon, I will start with you.
Brandon Westlake (12:48):
So it's funny that this question is one that
we're kind of dabbling with here, because I had somebody I just
came off of spring break and Ihad somebody ask me well, what
is it like I teach AP governmentand politics?
And someone was asking me well,what is it like I teach AP
government and politics?
And someone was asking me well,what is it like teaching those
(13:11):
kinds of subjects in thepolitical environment that we
have?
And it made me really thinkabout the work that we did here,
because there is a way to teachthese really tough subjects,
sometimes at a high school level, with it not being a way that
(13:31):
is controversial or that lendsitself to being a flashpoint.
And so I would just say, as thehigh school curriculum as a
whole, we really kind of focusedin on, let's get down to kind
of the fundamentals of civicsagain.
Let's kind of go back to, youknow, the basics of three
(13:56):
branches and the organization ofthe government and just those
ideas of what is it that kidsfor sure, what is it that we
want them to walk away withbefore we get into any of those
deeper concepts?
And so I think about just theidea of the lessons that we made
(14:18):
on the founders and theconstitutional convention and
how we focus more on let's makesure that they understand the
debate about, say, thethree-fifths compromise and that
they can walk away saying, well, here's what was actually
discussed through primarysources, here's kind of the
(14:38):
issues that were found at theday, and I think I guess at the
end we came up with with lessonsthat got students in or
thinking in this mindset of weneed to kind of lay the
groundwork first by getting bygetting the story told, by
(15:01):
getting them to understand the,the basic, fundamental, would
say, vocabulary.
I would say you know kind ofthe key terminology and it's not
often that I think teachers getto kind of play around with
that in a, in a way that's fun.
You know, we we tend to kind ofgo off on on some of these like
(15:25):
well, well, let's, let's makesure that we're incorporating
these writing standards andthings like you know of of ACD
alignment and things like that,and so this was this is a really
great way to be able to say no,let's, let's back up to kind of
like bread and butter, civicsthings, and so the other thing
(15:46):
that I would say is that bydoing that, what I have tried to
kind of inculcate in studentsis this civically curious
mindset of, okay, now that youhave the basics that they
debated and this is theconstitution they created, now
(16:10):
where can we run with that?
And I think that havingunderstand those fundamental
ideas again Kind of plays intoyour hand as a teacher, because
you're teaching them what theyneed to know is you're teaching
them what they need to know.
You're teaching them that theaspects of no matter what
(16:30):
perspective you're taking,you're going to have to know
these certain you know parts ofthe constitution and these
certain aspects of civicsliteracy.
Liz Evans (16:41):
I love that Civically curious right when you know.
You know what the firstamendment says and makes you
curious when you see things thatyou're like hmm, is that
constitutional?
Um, what about you, jamie?
Jamie Warner (17:01):
um, so I was listening to what brandon was
saying and that struck me, um,talking about the use of
historical examples in theclassroom to kind of build the
framework and enhance theirunderstanding of civics.
And I find that that has beenso valuable to my teaching this
year as well, and just we've hadan opportunity to revise and
reframe our curriculum where Iam, which has really made this
(17:23):
project all the more valuable tome.
And as we're talking about that, I feel like using those
historical examples is an easygateway to start moving towards
the more complicated and complexconversations about what's
happening in the modern day.
And I know like, as in myexperience, we were talking
about the Supreme Court quite abit this year and usually we
(17:45):
talk about the nuts and bolts ofSupreme Court limits and you
know who is placed on theSupreme Court in the process of
getting to that point where theybecome the Supreme Court
justice, and just kind of theschematic of that, the framework
of how that goes.
And then we started to take alook at Supreme Court cases from
the past that were related tothings like naturalization,
(18:07):
because that was coming up alittle bit in the news, and then
it was exciting to see studentskind of make a connection
between, well, we're learningabout this, but I also have
questions about what's happening, current events related to this
, and then seeing that developand being able to borrow from
these lessons.
One in particular stood out tome I know that was part of the
question you asked before was onthe Supreme Court, where it was
(18:29):
a simulation where students getto actually be the Supreme
Court justice and see theprocess of making these
decisions.
And an exemplar lesson like that, I think, is something kids
don't soon forget and we wereable to tie it into the TikTok
ban right and students were soengaged with that because that
affects them and their dailylife for a lot of students who
(18:51):
utilize social media and it wasjust such a rich conversation
that came from this idea of, youknow, taking a look at the life
of a Supreme Court justice andhow they go through that
decision-making process.
So being able to start way backwith a Supreme Court decision,
that's part of our curriculumand part of understanding how
the Supreme Court works.
To tie it into the modern dayand kind of see that full
(19:14):
spectrum perspective is reallypowerful and, to me, amazing for
middle school students to beable to do and we had such rich
conversations from that.
So I don't know if I'mnavigating away from your
original question, but that'swhat popped into my mind.
I think that's the power ofhaving this compendium of
lessons, because you can getsuch inspiration and then be
(19:36):
able to make those connectionsbetween the basics of civics,
literacy that we want studentsto know, but then kind of build
this very enriching plan fromthat where it comes full circle
and there's this relevantconnection between the past and
the present.
Liz Evans (19:52):
The judicial branch.
By the way, for our listenersis section 2.4 of the civic
literacy curriculum, and I dolove the TikTok ban because I
know that I mean maybe not yourfifth graders, rebecca, or maybe
I do not know how far downsocial media goes, but that it
(20:14):
is the like these.
You say like, oh, we'restudying things and they happen
so far in the past, or itdoesn't.
When am I going to need civicsanyway?
Dun, dun, dun, dun every day.
So, rebecca, what about you inelementary?
Rebecca Helland (20:30):
Yeah.
So you couldn't have lobbed upa better ball for me to hit with
this one.
So I actually have, like the,the connection between the high
school for Brandon's high schoolexample and then Jamie's middle
school example.
So for elementary students it'sall about creating experiences
and helping them to gainperspective through those
(20:51):
experiences.
So one of the things that comesto mind is when understanding
the constitution and thebranches of government and how
that all fits together and whyit's in place, there's no better
way to help kids connect withthat other than to toss out a
really big question and ask themto take on a perspective of
someone who was there and thenvote to make decisions that go
(21:14):
with it.
So the more you can equip thosekids with that perspective and
know what a person who was atthat event would have said and
then help kids to basicallypresent and argue from that
stance, they then have anemotional connection to it
because they've been able toargue something and see it pass
(21:35):
and go through and understandkind of the ramifications
thereof.
So those are pieces that kidsfind memorable, things that
they'll come back to later on,and and always wrapped around
that issue of perspective,because the more often we can
help kids think outside of theirown self and their own
(21:58):
experiences, the more successfulthat we are as as teachers,
because understanding,appreciating and respecting
perspective is something theywill take with the rest of their
lives.
I love that understanding,appreciating and respecting
perspective is something theywill take with the rest of their
lives.
Liz Evans (22:12):
I love that and that actually teased me up for our
next question.
So we're talking aboutempowered civics teachers.
So what does an empoweredcivics teacher look like and how
has collaborating with othereducators?
So, yes, in this teacher cohort, but if you have another
example too, please share that.
How have those thingsinfluenced your confidence, your
(22:34):
teaching strategies and yourapproach to civic education?
Because it was brought up.
What about our novice teachers?
I think sometimes, when you'rea brand new teacher to something
, you come in and you're like,oh my gosh, I'm in a department
with Rebecca, Brandon and Jamieand they're all so good and
they're so confident, but we allknow that it takes steps to get
(22:56):
there.
So, Jamie, I will start withyou.
Jamie Warner (22:59):
What does an empowered civics teacher look
like and how can collaboratingwith other educators kind of
influence that as far asempowered civics teachers, I
would say you have to besomebody that's willing to
navigate difficult conversationsand you know, having that
emphasis on respect in yourclassroom I think is a really
(23:20):
critical piece of that.
I'd also say that an empoweredcivics teacher feels really
competent in promoting criticalthinking in their classroom and
we've had such rich discussionalready about lesson ideas and
things that we've set forth asreally important in our
classrooms to help engagestudents in civic-mindedness and
civic curiosity and I would sayalso being able to make
(23:44):
real-world connections for ourstudents to maintain a relevancy
and an importance, I think isalso an important part of that.
But also being able to be thatempowered teacher and empower
student voice in the classroomas well, I think being able to
foster discussion and being ableto just have a comfortability
(24:09):
in engaging students in thingsthat matter and are important is
a really essential piece, and Iwould say that you know this
cohort.
If I'm being perfectly honest,civics was not my first choice
to teach, but it has become mymost favorite thing to teach in
a lot of ways just because I seeso much growth from my students
(24:31):
but also in myself.
Right Like this has empoweredme tremendously in learning from
others and being able tocollaborate with my peers,
whether in person in my own townand as part of our you know,
our own civics cohort, andcertainly being able to engage
in these thoughtful discussionswith civics teachers across the
United States.
(24:52):
As we mentioned perspective andits importance, I get so much
perspective from hearing theelementary perspective on
teaching civics and the highschool perspective where my
students are heading, that that,to me, is really invaluable.
And I think that this projectis a great way to empower
teachers.
And I always think of thenovice teacher because I know
(25:13):
when I started I was terrifiedof what I was teaching and I
felt like I was never going toget where I wanted to be on the
level of teachers that had 15and 20 years experience ahead of
me.
You know, 15 and 20 yearsexperience ahead of me and I
feel like this could be such apowerful resource for all
teachers at all levels who areembracing civics, but especially
(25:35):
for those novice teachers whomight feel like they don't
really know where to start andwith teacher preparation
programs, you know, across thecountry being so vastly
different, I think that this is,you know, a really critical
project to empower thoseteachers to feel comfortable in
the classroom.
Liz Evans (25:54):
I love, too, that you brought up the accidental
civics teacher, because I'm alsoan accidental civics teacher.
My degree is in early childhoodeducation and in my I was like
I want to teach, I want to teachthe littles, the second and
third graders, and I entered thejob market in 2003.
And so here in Arizona itwasn't, there wasn't a whole lot
(26:14):
of jobs open, and I had enoughcredits to teach eighth grade
social studies and I loved it.
And then, you know, 11 yearsafter that, I became an AP Gov
teacher, and that was.
It took me 11 years and I lovedeighth graders.
But becoming an AP Gov teacherand this accidental civics
(26:36):
person, I love that you bringthat up, because I think that
there are teachers that getplaced in this and they're not
really sure, but they end uploving it.
And they're not really sure,but they end up loving it
because there was no like civiceducation degree at my college
or in our state, and so it isthis accidental civics thing.
(26:58):
So I'm so I'm so glad that youbrought that up, rebecca.
What about you?
Rebecca Helland (27:02):
I think that an empowered civics teacher is one
who embraces failure, isn'tafraid to fail, is willing to
dabble and try, and then iswilling to have honest
conversation about what workedand what didn't work, because I
can learn a lot vicariouslythrough others and their
(27:23):
experiences too.
So when we have the opportunityand the time to collaborate on
things, to be able to say, okay,why didn't that go the way that
you were hoping it would, thenallows me to avoid a couple of
pitfalls along the way too, andhopefully I can reciprocate at
some point.
Liz Evans (27:41):
I think that's important.
Failure is feedback, andespecially in a classroom, like
they get to practice doing thesethings, and I think sometimes
the best thing we can do is failand say like we're sure not
perfect and it's never going tobe perfect and that's okay, but
it's about how you respond andhow you move forward with that.
That's really, really important, brandon, what about in high
(28:05):
school, brandon?
Brandon Westlake (28:07):
what about in high school?
I think that it's aboutembracing that lifelong learner
attitude that so many teachershave, that we want our students
to think outside of the box, soto speak, and to be able to do
it for the intrinsic motivation.
And I think, embracing that asteachers and embracing that and
(28:30):
collaborating with others, Ithink there's a lot of potential
there of, yeah, you can try alesson and you know we've all
been there as veteran teachersthat yeah, that didn't work out
and I'm never doing that again.
But you know, it's one of thosethings where you know now that
(28:52):
it's not going to work and youknow where you need to tweak it,
for you know the next day orthe next year or you know,
however, however, your, yourstudent group changes.
But I think that there's theidea of kind of vulnerability in
that and saying, hey, listen,like sometimes, as teachers, we
(29:13):
just need to be like I triedthis out and here's what worked.
Maybe you should try it withstudents.
Oh, but you may not want to doit this way because it fell flat
.
So, yeah, I think that there'sthere's.
There's that idea of um, Idon't know collegiality, but but
also just that that whole ideaof um, you know, not to kind of
(29:37):
throw buzzwords out, but likekind of just like that learning
community of yeah, we're, we'rejust we're here doing what we
love, and maybe that that, maybethere's something to that too,
about with all of the thecraziness of of
institutionalized learning, youknow, and and again going back
(29:57):
to what I had mentioned earlierabout, you know, kind of
checking off standards andthings, there's something to
this that I think is empoweringabout doing something that
you're really passionate aboutand doing it in a creative way.
Liz Evans (30:12):
Yes, I think one of my favorite things, especially
when I taught, I got to my likethird year of teaching AP Gov
and kids always came in andwould ask, regardless of the
administration, right, Can theydo this, Can they do this?
And, my favorite thing, Ialways felt like I had to know
the answer and it burned me outand I finally one day turned
(30:33):
around and I said I don't know,but I'm sure the constitution
does Everybody.
Let's open to article two ofthe constitution and see what it
says.
And it was, I think, one of thebetter moments of teaching I
had, where I am not the sage onthe stage, I am not the end, all
be all.
I don't know everything, but Ican show you how to find out.
(30:53):
And that was like a huge lightbulb for me too.
And Brandon, yes, learningcommunities is a buzzword, but
it's also we're not knowingcommunities right.
We're all learning together andI think that one of my favorite
things about civics teachers isthey often, yes, we need kids
to know this basic knowledge,but we're often showing them how
(31:17):
to be civically engaged or howto ask questions and just be
curious about it.
And again going back to thatcivically curious.
I absolutely love thateducation for over two decades
(31:39):
and I still like, as somebodywho interacted with 28 members
of this cohort, learnedsomething new every time.
I opened a new lesson everysingle time and it was so.
I think there were days that myface hurt from smiling and just
being like, oh my gosh, this isso cool, I need to send it to
this person.
And we created this right Likea teacher could come in and say
(32:01):
I need a lesson on this and trysomething new with their kids
and be okay.
If first hour it went reallygreat, Second hour totally fell
flat because of whatever.
Oh my gosh, I'm just seeing now.
Brandon Westlake (32:17):
I'm smiling and I'm Liz, can I, can I jump
in there?
So I I want to say I thinkbringing up AP government is
important because that's that'swhat I teach primarily now and I
think you know we and in thehigh school cohort we made these
adaptable to everybody andthere are many of them that can
(32:43):
easily fit in with with this,the sequence for AP government,
you know, and again thinkingabout who your students are and
and levels and what's acceptable, and all of that obviously
perfectly fine.
But I think if there's someonewho is a new teacher for this AP
(33:04):
curriculum and they arethinking where do I start, like
this is a great place to startand think about okay, let's lay
the foundation again and workfrom there.
Liz Evans (33:24):
Absolutely, and there are lessons actually on our
site that are like aligned withAP as it is right now, in 2025,
because things might change.
But I think there were a lot oftimes too that, like educators
would take something from AP anduse it in eighth grade right,
because you can adapt things foryour kids and and I love to
like, we don't need to be afraidto try things with fifth
graders, with eighth graders,because kids are more resilient
(33:47):
and more curious oftentimes thanI think we give them credit for
and they want to try theseharder things, especially if
they are with an educator andwithin a classroom where that
kind of curiosity and theability to try things is really,
oh my gosh, gorgeous, thank you, really celebrated and allowed
(34:11):
and to try just be like, hey,we're going to try this and
let's see, you know, let's seewhat happens.
Rebecca Helland (34:17):
I just think that for elementary teachers in
particular, a lot of us we'rerelearning the content when
we're coming to deliver any ofthe kinds of social studies,
areas of social studies.
So having that backgroundinformation and having that
explanation for each of thelessons, that's right there so I
don't have to go search it out.
I don't have to Google a bunchof terms that I feel like I
(34:39):
should know but I don't know andso I'm not confident to toss it
out in front of kids.
Yet Having that quickbackground in there really helps
to be able to say, okay, thisis, this is what it's talking
about, this is where it comesfrom.
Liz Evans (34:59):
I know how to navigate it because I'm equipped
with the content knowledgebackground to be able to put
that in front of kids, and ourfaculty did that.
All of those backgrounds arecreated by faculty, that this is
what they study, and I I mean,I feel like I know a lot of
things, but there were times Iwas reading where I was like,
wow, that's actually reallyinteresting, I didn't know that.
And I mean, for high schoolkids and I think for some middle
school kids too, you can givethem that background information
(35:20):
and have them read it.
But it was really put therebecause teachers can't know
everything right and there aretimes where you're in elementary
school and you're teaching allof the subjects, or you're in
high school or middle school andthis isn't your only prep,
you're doing other preps.
That background information isthere as a quick two-minute read
(35:44):
to just kind of put you.
Thank you for bringing that up.
The last question I have isbasically what advice do you
have for civics teachers andwhether that is the standalone
subject they're teaching?
Uh, I I believe civics belongseverywhere.
So if you're teaching englishor math or science or pe it, it
(36:05):
doesn't matter, we're allteachers of civics.
Um, what advice would you giveto teachers right now?
We it feels like every daysomething is changing.
There are things that arehappening that we're we're
wondering how the courts aregoing to deal I have started to
(36:26):
hate the word unprecedented,since it's been so overutilized
since 2020, but that's what itfeels like.
It feels like things areconstantly changing and teachers
are really on the front linesof that.
So I'm just going to ask thatwhat advice would you give to
somebody who is teaching civicsright now, in 2025?
Brandon Westlake (36:48):
And, brandon, I will start with you and so I
kind of look at this twodifferent ways, and the first is
just kind of thestraightforward message here is
that civics teachers have tounderstand that they are
(37:09):
teaching these key issues ofAmerican life and of being an
American that in many places,unfortunately, within their
day-to-day life, they're notgetting anywhere else or they're
not getting it in a way thatthey should be, in a neutral,
(37:30):
non-biased way that's notfiltered through somebody else's
perspective on social media orsomewhere else.
And so I think that means thatteachers who are teaching civics
have to understand that theyhave to know that that's what
(37:50):
they're signing up for as socialstudies teachers.
You know it would be like itwould be like saying you want to
teach science but you don'twant to do experiments.
I mean, that's fundamental towho we are.
We talk about these very hard,tough subjects in order to get
(38:13):
kids to think about their ownperspectives and their own views
on things, and so I think thatit's it's important just to to
have that really frankconversation with yourself of um
, yeah, you, you do do this andyou have a an obligation to do
it, because there are otherother places where they aren't
(38:37):
getting it.
I think there's that and Ithink thinking of it then from
an instructional standpoint isthat we have to have these
conversations but we also haveto let students drive those
conversations.
Like we've kind of been talkingabout instances of um, there's
(38:58):
kind of these serendipitousinstances of where these
questions come up and andlessons that build from them.
But I think that if wechallenge ourselves as teachers
to ask more questions than weactually talk, to listen more
(39:19):
than we actually talk, and putthe onus on the students who are
trying to navigate this crazyworld and empower them, then I
think we've ultimately empoweredourselves.
Liz Evans (39:34):
I love that.
I actually just read a policybrief from the Sandra Day
O'Connor Institute here inArizona that said, like a lot of
our students, their parents didnot get a civic education
because the emphasis was placedon STEM, and there are a lot of
kids who are teaching theirparents civics.
So not only are we opening thedoor for our students by again
(39:59):
and I love that asking morequestions and giving answers,
listening more than talkingwe're empowering them to go home
and to have those conversationswith their parents.
I'm a Gen Xer.
I did not get a civic educationbecause the emphasis was put on
history, which is veryimportant math, science and
(40:22):
English.
It wasn't necessarily put oncivics, and so that's like a
whole nother door opening.
Jamie, what does that look likefor you?
Jamie Warner (40:36):
The first thing that came to mind when you said
what advice would you give isjust breathe that's, I think,
number one, most important andjust know that it's okay to not
know all of the answers.
And I find that sometimeshaving that collective struggle
and researching together is apowerful way to model a lot of
the skills that we want ourstudents to know.
(40:57):
But it also gives students thatidea too that it's okay to not
know in the moment as long asyou're taking action to find out
.
And I think that that's one ofour end goals as teachers of
civics is to produce anenvironment in which students
want to be well-informed wellbeyond our classrooms.
(41:18):
Right, they want to continue tolearn and to know and to find
out.
So being able to model that,even in that moment of just
almost self-preservation, ofthinking like, okay, I need a
moment to process what'shappening in the world, in the
news and what students areasking, in that moment, I think
it's important to give ourselvesthat grace to be able to do
that and to be vulnerable inthat sense of not having all of
(41:41):
the answers and kind of thetipping point or the opposite
end of that is that civics isreally crucial for developing
informed and engaged citizens.
And that feels like a lot ofpressure when you're a teacher
of civics, but just knowing whatwe do is important, I think
kind of gives us that addedvalue of what we do each day.
(42:06):
And for me, what I take solacein in my curriculum is
emphasizing skills over contentand knowing that if we can
provide students with the skillsthat they need to be
well-informed and well-engagedmembers of society, I have this
faith that they're going tocontinue that forward well
beyond eighth grade and intohigh school, when they can
(42:27):
affect change through voting andcivic participation and things
of that nature, so kind ofmodeling it on what I would
consider a smaller scale in ourclassroom.
I think they'll carry forwardin other ways, which just gives
me hope with what we do and kindof makes me recognize the
(42:48):
importance and the value in whatwe do.
It's kind of this circularthing, right, that anxiety and
pressure, but knowing that it'sokay to breathe and be
vulnerable and do the researchwith your students, but also
knowing that it's going to go tothis amazing place where
students will take these lessonswith them.
You know, as far as they, asfar as they would like.
Liz Evans (43:11):
I love that.
And lastly, Rebecca.
Rebecca Helland (43:15):
I like that you brought up, jamie, the idea of
skills and really instillingthose skills in there for kids.
A lot of content is veryGoogle-able and as we're
educating kids for a world thatwe can't possibly vision right
now, those skills become reallyimportant.
Those skills become reallyimportant.
The inquiry piece it comes tomind too with, like how we can
(43:39):
equip kids to be great curiousquestion askers and to have
those strong research skills andthen the communication skills
that can go with that.
I think, particularly for anelementary perspective too, like
we're helping kids understandthe world that they're born into
, like why things are the waythat they are, and sometimes
(44:03):
those are very big, heavy topicsand sometimes they're just a
lot of fun.
So one of my personal bucketlist goals in life is to be able
to like tell the story ofUnited States history through
team mascots and all of thestories and things that go
behind those.
So it doesn't always have to besuper heavy and doom and gloom,
though we don't want to avoidthose things right, so it's
(44:25):
balance.
It can be the fun parts aboutwhy certain teams got the name
that they got because of thelocation that they're in or a
significant part in history thatthat, that that played which,
when you're, when you're helpingkids understand, like this, is
why things are the way that theyare.
Then they understand it and aremore willing to jump into it
(44:46):
and enter into civic engagementtoo and those are so fun.
Liz Evans (44:52):
I actually remember, uh, when I taught ap government,
we were looking at um, asupreme court case it was uh tam
versus mattel on whether or notthe use of uh the band named
the slants, went against the ustrademark um, and this band was
(45:12):
asian, american and it actuallybrought up the case of the
Washington Redskins and they hadsuch a very.
It was so curious and soconstitutional about whether or
not, you know, teams shouldchange their name and what does
it mean to be, you know, to havethese names that maybe have
(45:37):
outgrown what they were, and itwas so interesting.
And I will be very interestedto see your telling of American
history through mascots, becausethat's fun.
Like that kind of stuff is fun.
You're right, it doesn't alwayshave to be, you know, heavy.
It can be things like why do wecelebrate the things we
(46:02):
celebrate?
And you know, why do we usefirecrackers on the 4th of July,
like.
Those are questions that maybekids haven't ever thought of,
but those are actually greathistorical questions.
Brandon, jamie, rebecca, I wantto thank you, I mean for all the
work you did with the cohortand all of these incredible
lessons that you created, butalso for taking time to have
(46:22):
this conversation with me.
I really hope that there isteachers out there, because we
heard from an elementary andmiddle school and a high school
teacher and we're all over thenation I'm in Arizona, rebecca's
in Iowa, brandon you're inMissouri and Jamie you're on the
East Coast of New Jersey.
There's so much variety here.
So thank you for your time andthank you for what you do in the
(46:47):
classroom.
Brandon Westlake (46:50):
Thank you, Liz .
Rebecca Helland (46:52):
Appreciate the opportunity.
Jamie Warner (46:53):
Thanks, yes, thank you so much for having me.
I am thrilled because it feels like there's nobody
better to hype up teachers thanother teachers, teachers that
are practicing teachers that arein the classroom right now.
So today we're talking abouthow empowering teachers in
civics leads to stronger, moreconfident educators and better
(00:21):
prepared students.
And I am very lucky to havethree amazing teachers with me
who are also part of our CivicLiteracy Curriculum teacher
cohort, so you'll know the namesbecause you'll probably have
looked at their lessons and usedthem in your classroom, so I'm
going to have them introducethemselves.
(00:42):
Rebecca, I will actually startwith you if you want to tell us
a little bit about yourself.
Rebecca Helland (00:47):
Well, thank you for inviting me to join the
program.
I appreciate the opportunity tohave a chat with you today.
My name is Rebecca Helland.
I professionally mess with theminds of fifth graders and have
for a very long time Also havebeen involved in some social
studies initiatives across thestate in Iowa and working with
(01:12):
standards and things like that,as well as professional learning
for teachers about how socialstudies can be effectively done
and well done in the elementaryclassroom.
So have a passion for seeingkids' curiosity grow, and social
studies and civics are a greatway to foster that.
Liz Evans (01:33):
Thank you, and next up I'm going to introduce Jamie.
She is in our middle schoolportion of the cohort.
Jamie Warner (01:40):
Yes, thank you for inviting me.
My name is Jamie Warner.
I teach in suburban New Jerseyand I'm currently teaching
civics and also ancient worldand medieval world, so it's
quite an interesting mix for me.
Teaching middle school studentsabout civics in this moment, I
think, is one of the mostimportant things I'll ever do,
and I really take a lot of pridein creating the most engaging
(02:02):
lessons I can to make it asrelevant as possible to their
lives, recognizing that you knowthey're moving on to the high
school shortly as an eighthgrade teacher and they really
need to be well equipped with,you know, all the research
skills and media literacy skillsand things of that nature to
navigate the world that we'recurrently living in and I think
(02:22):
it's so intertwined with civicsin the modern day.
So I'm really excited to behere and to talk to my
colleagues about best practicesand, you know, to continue to
learn from each other.
Liz Evans (02:33):
Wonderful.
And, lastly, we have a memberof our high school cohort,
brandon, will you introduceyourself?
Brandon Westlake (02:40):
Yeah, thanks for inviting me, Liz.
I am a 15-year veteran of highschool.
I'm currently in St Louis,missouri, where I am at St
Joseph's Academy.
I serve as the department chairthere now and kind of dabble in
all sorts of extracurricularthings whenever I'm needed.
(03:02):
But I think that being a highschool teacher, like Jamie said,
that this is a key moment foreverybody, because I have
students who come to me who are,you know, just right on the
verge.
Sometimes they are able to vote, but they are right there where
they are getting interested,they see where these issues
(03:23):
connect to their own lives, andso they come with a lot of
questions and a lot of curiosity.
That's exciting, but it canalso be a little frightening
sometimes, and so I really lovethe ability to kind of just
intellectually grapple with that, with this initiative, and just
(03:48):
to be able to kind of workthrough how would I approach all
of these different topics.
So I'm glad to be able to talkthis out today.
Liz Evans (03:57):
Awesome.
Well, again, thank you all somuch.
So my first question I meanteachers are really at the heart
of civic education.
I was a teacher for 17 years.
I believe that teachers shouldbe in places where decisions are
made.
There's often, though,challenges like time constraints
, lack of resources orhesitations around controversial
(04:20):
topics.
We have another podcast episodethat I did with Alan Carey,
which is actually already out oncivil discourse, and he talks
about that, but how has being apart of this teacher cohort kind
of help you overcome some ofthese challenges, and how do you
think that teachers can utilizesome of this stuff to help
(04:40):
overcome the challenges in theirclassroom?
And, Rebecca, I will start withyou on that.
Rebecca Helland (04:46):
Yeah, so a couple of things.
For us as elementary teachers,I think it's always a battle of
resources and time to accessthose resources.
So having primary sources,having quality questions, having
lessons that are laid out,organized, easily accessible,
those are all things that reducebarriers for us as teachers
(05:09):
when it comes to time andputting together quality lessons
and conversation points for ourstudents.
Another definite barrier that Ithink a lot of us as elementary
teachers face is not reallysure how to navigate those
controversial topics anddifficult conversations, and so
sometimes it becomes easy tosort of say well, I just didn't
(05:31):
have time to get those things in.
We were working on lots ofgreat reading things today and
we just didn't have time forsocial studies.
We didn't have time to talkabout some of those hard things.
I think those are greatopportunities for conversations
with colleagues and growprofessionally.
We need to be equipping ourkids with the right language to
(05:52):
use the way to talk with eachother in a civil way and talk
about real things that matter tokids, because those are real
things that matter to kids.
They're curious about thosethings.
They've heard snippets, theyhave misconceptions and it's an
opportunity to be able tounderstand where kids are coming
(06:13):
from and have a chance to getsome of those things out and
have a chance to talk about someof the things that we may or
may not be proud of when itcomes to a historical context,
but are hugely formational inwhere we are today as a country.
And that's something that kidsare.
Maybe they haven't thought ofit in terms, in those terms, but
(06:34):
they're definitely curiousabout when we get there.
Liz Evans (06:39):
I love that especially.
You know.
I think that educating forAmerican Democracy framework
calls it reflective patriotism,right, like we have to study all
of it because it's part of whowe are as a nation.
Absolutely, I love that,brandon.
What does that look like in ahigh school setting?
Brandon Westlake (06:58):
You know, it's in some ways oddly similar to
Rebecca's experience, because Ithink time, if I'm thing that
teachers would necessarily haveto worry about as they're trying
(07:30):
to find what works best fortheir students and how they can
adapt some of these in highschool, these very abstract
ideas, to their lives, and beingable to find a way that it will
kind of grab students'attention.
And I think that, with all ofthe controversy and the
(07:54):
unsettleness about civics, thething that I think is so
important here that I learnedand I kind of talk about this
with my colleagues is the ideaof confidence through our
colleagues, and I think that wecan see this here in that these
are ideas that are generated byteachers.
(08:14):
They're things that teachersare doing in their classrooms
now, they're things that workwith students now, and that
isn't to say that we wouldn'tencourage teachers, you know to
to adapt and to make somechanges where it would fit best
with their own you know theirown classrooms.
But I think that here areexamples of of starting points
(08:36):
and whether that be the primarysources or just even lessons, or
maybe even you know, discussionstarters, where it's one less
thing that they have to worryabout and then they can kind of
take and manipulate on their own.
Liz Evans (08:53):
And there is.
I mean, every lesson that is upon the website was made by a
practicing teacher.
You're all practicing teachersand a lot of these too.
And, jamie, I'm coming to younext because I'm specifically
thinking and I want to rememberwhich lesson it is.
But I remember looking at oneof the lessons you put for
middle school, because I taughtmiddle school for so long and I
(09:15):
was like I want to go back inthe classroom and do this lesson
because it looks so fun, and Iwill find it and I will put it
in our show notes because Iremember writing it down and
being like this looks so fun,like this is something I want my
daughter to do because she iscurrently an eighth grader.
So, jamie, what does it looklike for middle schoolers?
Jamie Warner (09:39):
um, when I'm thinking about all the things
that we've mentioned so far,right, you kind of let off with
that three-headed monster ofteaching civics right now.
Right, the lack of time, thelack of resources and kind of
this discomfort with talkingabout certain topics.
You know, especially for me in amiddle school classroom, the
number one thing that I considermost important is creating that
respectful environment whereeverybody knows that their voice
(09:59):
can be heard and, you know, wecan kind of work through, as you
mentioned, those misconceptionsthat students may bring in and
just kind of share our ideasopenly and have this respect and
understanding that we can learnfrom each other through
furthering what it is we'restudying or talking about on any
given day.
And I find that being a part ofthis cohort and utilizing the
(10:21):
lessons that are providedthrough it have just enhanced my
teaching and made all of thosethings that three-headed monster
so much easier.
Right, there's less discomfort,there's certainly much more
time and just an amazingcompendium of resources that
we're able to utilize andimplement.
And I have just such confidencein knowing that my colleagues
have worked hard to thoughtfullycraft them and that they're
(10:44):
vetted and we've had discussionsabout them and they've been
reviewed and it just gives mesuch a positive feeling being
able to pull from that andimplement it in my own classroom
, but also makes me think aboutbrand new teachers and novice
teachers who are entering thesocial studies profession right
now, who, I imagine, must feelso much more of a sense of
(11:04):
overwhelm just because they'renot the seasoned veteran that
some of us might be.
And you know, this, I think, isgoing to be one of the most
helpful resources that theycould utilize if they're looking
to teach civics and to planthoughtfully to engage students
in this current time.
Liz Evans (11:23):
I love that you bring up new teachers right, because
I think that one of my favoritethings about this curriculum as
a whole is it is if you are abrand new teacher and literally
K through adult right and you'relike I need a lesson on who the
current president is.
I need a lesson on why we saythe Pledge of Allegiance.
There are lessons K throughadult that a teacher does in
(11:46):
their classroom and you have alllooked at other people's
lessons.
This is not just somethingpeople make up and throw on the
internet and everything is freeand it's a Google Doc.
So if you want to changeanything because it works better
for your classroom, you havethe ability to do that.
And I absolutely I'm so gladyou brought up the new teachers
(12:07):
because we do not want to leavethose new teachers behind.
And I love your analogy of thethree-headed monster of teaching
civics.
That is like, because now I'mthinking about, like all these
cohort members, as monsterslayers, like going through and
doing that.
So the civic literacycurriculum is designed to
provide structured, engaginglessons in civics.
(12:30):
I'd like you guys to share howusing the civic literacy
curriculum changed or enhancedthe way you've taught, or if
there's any specific lessons orresources that you feel have
impacted your students andBrandon, I will start with you.
Brandon Westlake (12:48):
So it's funny that this question is one that
we're kind of dabbling with here, because I had somebody I just
came off of spring break and Ihad somebody ask me well, what
is it like I teach AP governmentand politics?
And someone was asking me well,what is it like I teach AP
government and politics?
And someone was asking me well,what is it like teaching those
(13:11):
kinds of subjects in thepolitical environment that we
have?
And it made me really thinkabout the work that we did here,
because there is a way to teachthese really tough subjects,
sometimes at a high school level, with it not being a way that
(13:31):
is controversial or that lendsitself to being a flashpoint.
And so I would just say, as thehigh school curriculum as a
whole, we really kind of focusedin on, let's get down to kind
of the fundamentals of civicsagain.
Let's kind of go back to, youknow, the basics of three
(13:56):
branches and the organization ofthe government and just those
ideas of what is it that kidsfor sure, what is it that we
want them to walk away withbefore we get into any of those
deeper concepts?
And so I think about just theidea of the lessons that we made
(14:18):
on the founders and theconstitutional convention and
how we focus more on let's makesure that they understand the
debate about, say, thethree-fifths compromise and that
they can walk away saying, well, here's what was actually
discussed through primarysources, here's kind of the
(14:38):
issues that were found at theday, and I think I guess at the
end we came up with with lessonsthat got students in or
thinking in this mindset of weneed to kind of lay the
groundwork first by getting bygetting the story told, by
(15:01):
getting them to understand the,the basic, fundamental, would
say, vocabulary.
I would say you know kind ofthe key terminology and it's not
often that I think teachers getto kind of play around with
that in a, in a way that's fun.
You know, we we tend to kind ofgo off on on some of these like
(15:25):
well, well, let's, let's makesure that we're incorporating
these writing standards andthings like you know of of ACD
alignment and things like that,and so this was this is a really
great way to be able to say no,let's, let's back up to kind of
like bread and butter, civicsthings, and so the other thing
(15:46):
that I would say is that bydoing that, what I have tried to
kind of inculcate in studentsis this civically curious
mindset of, okay, now that youhave the basics that they
debated and this is theconstitution they created, now
(16:10):
where can we run with that?
And I think that havingunderstand those fundamental
ideas again Kind of plays intoyour hand as a teacher, because
you're teaching them what theyneed to know is you're teaching
them what they need to know.
You're teaching them that theaspects of no matter what
(16:30):
perspective you're taking,you're going to have to know
these certain you know parts ofthe constitution and these
certain aspects of civicsliteracy.
Liz Evans (16:41):
I love that Civically curious right when you know.
You know what the firstamendment says and makes you
curious when you see things thatyou're like hmm, is that
constitutional?
Um, what about you, jamie?
Jamie Warner (17:01):
um, so I was listening to what brandon was
saying and that struck me, um,talking about the use of
historical examples in theclassroom to kind of build the
framework and enhance theirunderstanding of civics.
And I find that that has beenso valuable to my teaching this
year as well, and just we've hadan opportunity to revise and
reframe our curriculum where Iam, which has really made this
(17:23):
project all the more valuable tome.
And as we're talking about that, I feel like using those
historical examples is an easygateway to start moving towards
the more complicated and complexconversations about what's
happening in the modern day.
And I know like, as in myexperience, we were talking
about the Supreme Court quite abit this year and usually we
(17:45):
talk about the nuts and bolts ofSupreme Court limits and you
know who is placed on theSupreme Court in the process of
getting to that point where theybecome the Supreme Court
justice, and just kind of theschematic of that, the framework
of how that goes.
And then we started to take alook at Supreme Court cases from
the past that were related tothings like naturalization,
(18:07):
because that was coming up alittle bit in the news, and then
it was exciting to see studentskind of make a connection
between, well, we're learningabout this, but I also have
questions about what's happening, current events related to this
, and then seeing that developand being able to borrow from
these lessons.
One in particular stood out tome I know that was part of the
question you asked before was onthe Supreme Court, where it was
(18:29):
a simulation where students getto actually be the Supreme
Court justice and see theprocess of making these
decisions.
And an exemplar lesson like that, I think, is something kids
don't soon forget and we wereable to tie it into the TikTok
ban right and students were soengaged with that because that
affects them and their dailylife for a lot of students who
(18:51):
utilize social media and it wasjust such a rich conversation
that came from this idea of, youknow, taking a look at the life
of a Supreme Court justice andhow they go through that
decision-making process.
So being able to start way backwith a Supreme Court decision,
that's part of our curriculumand part of understanding how
the Supreme Court works.
To tie it into the modern dayand kind of see that full
(19:14):
spectrum perspective is reallypowerful and, to me, amazing for
middle school students to beable to do and we had such rich
conversations from that.
So I don't know if I'mnavigating away from your
original question, but that'swhat popped into my mind.
I think that's the power ofhaving this compendium of
lessons, because you can getsuch inspiration and then be
(19:36):
able to make those connectionsbetween the basics of civics,
literacy that we want studentsto know, but then kind of build
this very enriching plan fromthat where it comes full circle
and there's this relevantconnection between the past and
the present.
Liz Evans (19:52):
The judicial branch.
By the way, for our listenersis section 2.4 of the civic
literacy curriculum, and I dolove the TikTok ban because I
know that I mean maybe not yourfifth graders, rebecca, or maybe
I do not know how far downsocial media goes, but that it
(20:14):
is the like these.
You say like, oh, we'restudying things and they happen
so far in the past, or itdoesn't.
When am I going to need civicsanyway?
Dun, dun, dun, dun every day.
So, rebecca, what about you inelementary?
Rebecca Helland (20:30):
Yeah.
So you couldn't have lobbed upa better ball for me to hit with
this one.
So I actually have, like the,the connection between the high
school for Brandon's high schoolexample and then Jamie's middle
school example.
So for elementary students it'sall about creating experiences
and helping them to gainperspective through those
(20:51):
experiences.
So one of the things that comesto mind is when understanding
the constitution and thebranches of government and how
that all fits together and whyit's in place, there's no better
way to help kids connect withthat other than to toss out a
really big question and ask themto take on a perspective of
someone who was there and thenvote to make decisions that go
(21:14):
with it.
So the more you can equip thosekids with that perspective and
know what a person who was atthat event would have said and
then help kids to basicallypresent and argue from that
stance, they then have anemotional connection to it
because they've been able toargue something and see it pass
(21:35):
and go through and understandkind of the ramifications
thereof.
So those are pieces that kidsfind memorable, things that
they'll come back to later on,and and always wrapped around
that issue of perspective,because the more often we can
help kids think outside of theirown self and their own
(21:58):
experiences, the more successfulthat we are as as teachers,
because understanding,appreciating and respecting
perspective is something theywill take with the rest of their
lives.
I love that understanding,appreciating and respecting
perspective is something theywill take with the rest of their
lives.
Liz Evans (22:12):
I love that and that actually teased me up for our
next question.
So we're talking aboutempowered civics teachers.
So what does an empoweredcivics teacher look like and how
has collaborating with othereducators?
So, yes, in this teacher cohort, but if you have another
example too, please share that.
How have those thingsinfluenced your confidence, your
(22:34):
teaching strategies and yourapproach to civic education?
Because it was brought up.
What about our novice teachers?
I think sometimes, when you'rea brand new teacher to something
, you come in and you're like,oh my gosh, I'm in a department
with Rebecca, Brandon and Jamieand they're all so good and
they're so confident, but we allknow that it takes steps to get
(22:56):
there.
So, Jamie, I will start withyou.
Jamie Warner (22:59):
What does an empowered civics teacher look
like and how can collaboratingwith other educators kind of
influence that as far asempowered civics teachers, I
would say you have to besomebody that's willing to
navigate difficult conversationsand you know, having that
emphasis on respect in yourclassroom I think is a really
(23:20):
critical piece of that.
I'd also say that an empoweredcivics teacher feels really
competent in promoting criticalthinking in their classroom and
we've had such rich discussionalready about lesson ideas and
things that we've set forth asreally important in our
classrooms to help engagestudents in civic-mindedness and
civic curiosity and I would sayalso being able to make
(23:44):
real-world connections for ourstudents to maintain a relevancy
and an importance, I think isalso an important part of that.
But also being able to be thatempowered teacher and empower
student voice in the classroomas well, I think being able to
foster discussion and being ableto just have a comfortability
(24:09):
in engaging students in thingsthat matter and are important is
a really essential piece, and Iwould say that you know this
cohort.
If I'm being perfectly honest,civics was not my first choice
to teach, but it has become mymost favorite thing to teach in
a lot of ways just because I seeso much growth from my students
(24:31):
but also in myself.
Right Like this has empoweredme tremendously in learning from
others and being able tocollaborate with my peers,
whether in person in my own townand as part of our you know,
our own civics cohort, andcertainly being able to engage
in these thoughtful discussionswith civics teachers across the
United States.
(24:52):
As we mentioned perspective andits importance, I get so much
perspective from hearing theelementary perspective on
teaching civics and the highschool perspective where my
students are heading, that that,to me, is really invaluable.
And I think that this projectis a great way to empower
teachers.
And I always think of thenovice teacher because I know
(25:13):
when I started I was terrifiedof what I was teaching and I
felt like I was never going toget where I wanted to be on the
level of teachers that had 15and 20 years experience ahead of
me.
You know, 15 and 20 yearsexperience ahead of me and I
feel like this could be such apowerful resource for all
teachers at all levels who areembracing civics, but especially
(25:35):
for those novice teachers whomight feel like they don't
really know where to start andwith teacher preparation
programs, you know, across thecountry being so vastly
different, I think that this is,you know, a really critical
project to empower thoseteachers to feel comfortable in
the classroom.
Liz Evans (25:54):
I love, too, that you brought up the accidental
civics teacher, because I'm alsoan accidental civics teacher.
My degree is in early childhoodeducation and in my I was like
I want to teach, I want to teachthe littles, the second and
third graders, and I entered thejob market in 2003.
And so here in Arizona itwasn't, there wasn't a whole lot
(26:14):
of jobs open, and I had enoughcredits to teach eighth grade
social studies and I loved it.
And then, you know, 11 yearsafter that, I became an AP Gov
teacher, and that was.
It took me 11 years and I lovedeighth graders.
But becoming an AP Gov teacherand this accidental civics
(26:36):
person, I love that you bringthat up, because I think that
there are teachers that getplaced in this and they're not
really sure, but they end uploving it.
And they're not really sure,but they end up loving it
because there was no like civiceducation degree at my college
or in our state, and so it isthis accidental civics thing.
(26:58):
So I'm so I'm so glad that youbrought that up, rebecca.
What about you?
Rebecca Helland (27:02):
I think that an empowered civics teacher is one
who embraces failure, isn'tafraid to fail, is willing to
dabble and try, and then iswilling to have honest
conversation about what workedand what didn't work, because I
can learn a lot vicariouslythrough others and their
(27:23):
experiences too.
So when we have the opportunityand the time to collaborate on
things, to be able to say, okay,why didn't that go the way that
you were hoping it would, thenallows me to avoid a couple of
pitfalls along the way too, andhopefully I can reciprocate at
some point.
Liz Evans (27:41):
I think that's important.
Failure is feedback, andespecially in a classroom, like
they get to practice doing thesethings, and I think sometimes
the best thing we can do is failand say like we're sure not
perfect and it's never going tobe perfect and that's okay, but
it's about how you respond andhow you move forward with that.
That's really, really important, brandon, what about in high
(28:05):
school, brandon?
Brandon Westlake (28:07):
what about in high school?
I think that it's aboutembracing that lifelong learner
attitude that so many teachershave, that we want our students
to think outside of the box, soto speak, and to be able to do
it for the intrinsic motivation.
And I think, embracing that asteachers and embracing that and
(28:30):
collaborating with others, Ithink there's a lot of potential
there of, yeah, you can try alesson and you know we've all
been there as veteran teachersthat yeah, that didn't work out
and I'm never doing that again.
But you know, it's one of thosethings where you know now that
(28:52):
it's not going to work and youknow where you need to tweak it,
for you know the next day orthe next year or you know,
however, however, your, yourstudent group changes.
But I think that there's theidea of kind of vulnerability in
that and saying, hey, listen,like sometimes, as teachers, we
(29:13):
just need to be like I triedthis out and here's what worked.
Maybe you should try it withstudents.
Oh, but you may not want to doit this way because it fell flat
.
So, yeah, I think that there'sthere's.
There's that idea of um, Idon't know collegiality, but but
also just that that whole ideaof um, you know, not to kind of
(29:37):
throw buzzwords out, but likekind of just like that learning
community of yeah, we're, we'rejust we're here doing what we
love, and maybe that that, maybethere's something to that too,
about with all of the thecraziness of of
institutionalized learning, youknow, and and again going back
(29:57):
to what I had mentioned earlierabout, you know, kind of
checking off standards andthings, there's something to
this that I think is empoweringabout doing something that
you're really passionate aboutand doing it in a creative way.
Liz Evans (30:12):
Yes, I think one of my favorite things, especially
when I taught, I got to my likethird year of teaching AP Gov
and kids always came in andwould ask, regardless of the
administration, right, Can theydo this, Can they do this?
And, my favorite thing, Ialways felt like I had to know
the answer and it burned me outand I finally one day turned
(30:33):
around and I said I don't know,but I'm sure the constitution
does Everybody.
Let's open to article two ofthe constitution and see what it
says.
And it was, I think, one of thebetter moments of teaching I
had, where I am not the sage onthe stage, I am not the end, all
be all.
I don't know everything, but Ican show you how to find out.
(30:53):
And that was like a huge lightbulb for me too.
And Brandon, yes, learningcommunities is a buzzword, but
it's also we're not knowingcommunities right.
We're all learning together andI think that one of my favorite
things about civics teachers isthey often, yes, we need kids
to know this basic knowledge,but we're often showing them how
(31:17):
to be civically engaged or howto ask questions and just be
curious about it.
And again going back to thatcivically curious.
I absolutely love thateducation for over two decades
(31:39):
and I still like, as somebodywho interacted with 28 members
of this cohort, learnedsomething new every time.
I opened a new lesson everysingle time and it was so.
I think there were days that myface hurt from smiling and just
being like, oh my gosh, this isso cool, I need to send it to
this person.
And we created this right Likea teacher could come in and say
(32:01):
I need a lesson on this and trysomething new with their kids
and be okay.
If first hour it went reallygreat, Second hour totally fell
flat because of whatever.
Oh my gosh, I'm just seeing now.
Brandon Westlake (32:17):
I'm smiling and I'm Liz, can I, can I jump
in there?
So I I want to say I thinkbringing up AP government is
important because that's that'swhat I teach primarily now and I
think you know we and in thehigh school cohort we made these
adaptable to everybody andthere are many of them that can
(32:43):
easily fit in with with this,the sequence for AP government,
you know, and again thinkingabout who your students are and
and levels and what's acceptable, and all of that obviously
perfectly fine.
But I think if there's someonewho is a new teacher for this AP
(33:04):
curriculum and they arethinking where do I start, like
this is a great place to startand think about okay, let's lay
the foundation again and workfrom there.
Liz Evans (33:24):
Absolutely, and there are lessons actually on our
site that are like aligned withAP as it is right now, in 2025,
because things might change.
But I think there were a lot oftimes too that, like educators
would take something from AP anduse it in eighth grade right,
because you can adapt things foryour kids and and I love to
like, we don't need to be afraidto try things with fifth
graders, with eighth graders,because kids are more resilient
(33:47):
and more curious oftentimes thanI think we give them credit for
and they want to try theseharder things, especially if
they are with an educator andwithin a classroom where that
kind of curiosity and theability to try things is really,
oh my gosh, gorgeous, thank you, really celebrated and allowed
(34:11):
and to try just be like, hey,we're going to try this and
let's see, you know, let's seewhat happens.
Rebecca Helland (34:17):
I just think that for elementary teachers in
particular, a lot of us we'rerelearning the content when
we're coming to deliver any ofthe kinds of social studies,
areas of social studies.
So having that backgroundinformation and having that
explanation for each of thelessons, that's right there so I
don't have to go search it out.
I don't have to Google a bunchof terms that I feel like I
(34:39):
should know but I don't know andso I'm not confident to toss it
out in front of kids.
Yet Having that quickbackground in there really helps
to be able to say, okay, thisis, this is what it's talking
about, this is where it comesfrom.
Liz Evans (34:59):
I know how to navigate it because I'm equipped
with the content knowledgebackground to be able to put
that in front of kids, and ourfaculty did that.
All of those backgrounds arecreated by faculty, that this is
what they study, and I I mean,I feel like I know a lot of
things, but there were times Iwas reading where I was like,
wow, that's actually reallyinteresting, I didn't know that.
And I mean, for high schoolkids and I think for some middle
school kids too, you can givethem that background information
(35:20):
and have them read it.
But it was really put therebecause teachers can't know
everything right and there aretimes where you're in elementary
school and you're teaching allof the subjects, or you're in
high school or middle school andthis isn't your only prep,
you're doing other preps.
That background information isthere as a quick two-minute read
(35:44):
to just kind of put you.
Thank you for bringing that up.
The last question I have isbasically what advice do you
have for civics teachers andwhether that is the standalone
subject they're teaching?
Uh, I I believe civics belongseverywhere.
So if you're teaching englishor math or science or pe it, it
(36:05):
doesn't matter, we're allteachers of civics.
Um, what advice would you giveto teachers right now?
We it feels like every daysomething is changing.
There are things that arehappening that we're we're
wondering how the courts aregoing to deal I have started to
(36:26):
hate the word unprecedented,since it's been so overutilized
since 2020, but that's what itfeels like.
It feels like things areconstantly changing and teachers
are really on the front linesof that.
So I'm just going to ask thatwhat advice would you give to
somebody who is teaching civicsright now, in 2025?
Brandon Westlake (36:48):
And, brandon, I will start with you and so I
kind of look at this twodifferent ways, and the first is
just kind of thestraightforward message here is
that civics teachers have tounderstand that they are
(37:09):
teaching these key issues ofAmerican life and of being an
American that in many places,unfortunately, within their
day-to-day life, they're notgetting anywhere else or they're
not getting it in a way thatthey should be, in a neutral,
(37:30):
non-biased way that's notfiltered through somebody else's
perspective on social media orsomewhere else.
And so I think that means thatteachers who are teaching civics
have to understand that theyhave to know that that's what
(37:50):
they're signing up for as socialstudies teachers.
You know it would be like itwould be like saying you want to
teach science but you don'twant to do experiments.
I mean, that's fundamental towho we are.
We talk about these very hard,tough subjects in order to get
(38:13):
kids to think about their ownperspectives and their own views
on things, and so I think thatit's it's important just to to
have that really frankconversation with yourself of um
, yeah, you, you do do this andyou have a an obligation to do
it, because there are otherother places where they aren't
(38:37):
getting it.
I think there's that and Ithink thinking of it then from
an instructional standpoint isthat we have to have these
conversations but we also haveto let students drive those
conversations.
Like we've kind of been talkingabout instances of um, there's
(38:58):
kind of these serendipitousinstances of where these
questions come up and andlessons that build from them.
But I think that if wechallenge ourselves as teachers
to ask more questions than weactually talk, to listen more
(39:19):
than we actually talk, and putthe onus on the students who are
trying to navigate this crazyworld and empower them, then I
think we've ultimately empoweredourselves.
Liz Evans (39:34):
I love that.
I actually just read a policybrief from the Sandra Day
O'Connor Institute here inArizona that said, like a lot of
our students, their parents didnot get a civic education
because the emphasis was placedon STEM, and there are a lot of
kids who are teaching theirparents civics.
So not only are we opening thedoor for our students by again
(39:59):
and I love that asking morequestions and giving answers,
listening more than talkingwe're empowering them to go home
and to have those conversationswith their parents.
I'm a Gen Xer.
I did not get a civic educationbecause the emphasis was put on
history, which is veryimportant math, science and
(40:22):
English.
It wasn't necessarily put oncivics, and so that's like a
whole nother door opening.
Jamie, what does that look likefor you?
Jamie Warner (40:36):
The first thing that came to mind when you said
what advice would you give isjust breathe that's, I think,
number one, most important andjust know that it's okay to not
know all of the answers.
And I find that sometimeshaving that collective struggle
and researching together is apowerful way to model a lot of
the skills that we want ourstudents to know.
(40:57):
But it also gives students thatidea too that it's okay to not
know in the moment as long asyou're taking action to find out
.
And I think that that's one ofour end goals as teachers of
civics is to produce anenvironment in which students
want to be well-informed wellbeyond our classrooms.
(41:18):
Right, they want to continue tolearn and to know and to find
out.
So being able to model that,even in that moment of just
almost self-preservation, ofthinking like, okay, I need a
moment to process what'shappening in the world, in the
news and what students areasking, in that moment, I think
it's important to give ourselvesthat grace to be able to do
that and to be vulnerable inthat sense of not having all of
(41:41):
the answers and kind of thetipping point or the opposite
end of that is that civics isreally crucial for developing
informed and engaged citizens.
And that feels like a lot ofpressure when you're a teacher
of civics, but just knowing whatwe do is important, I think
kind of gives us that addedvalue of what we do each day.
(42:06):
And for me, what I take solacein in my curriculum is
emphasizing skills over contentand knowing that if we can
provide students with the skillsthat they need to be
well-informed and well-engagedmembers of society, I have this
faith that they're going tocontinue that forward well
beyond eighth grade and intohigh school, when they can
(42:27):
affect change through voting andcivic participation and things
of that nature, so kind ofmodeling it on what I would
consider a smaller scale in ourclassroom.
I think they'll carry forwardin other ways, which just gives
me hope with what we do and kindof makes me recognize the
(42:48):
importance and the value in whatwe do.
It's kind of this circularthing, right, that anxiety and
pressure, but knowing that it'sokay to breathe and be
vulnerable and do the researchwith your students, but also
knowing that it's going to go tothis amazing place where
students will take these lessonswith them.
You know, as far as they, asfar as they would like.
Liz Evans (43:11):
I love that.
And lastly, Rebecca.
Rebecca Helland (43:15):
I like that you brought up, jamie, the idea of
skills and really instillingthose skills in there for kids.
A lot of content is veryGoogle-able and as we're
educating kids for a world thatwe can't possibly vision right
now, those skills become reallyimportant.
Those skills become reallyimportant.
The inquiry piece it comes tomind too with, like how we can
(43:39):
equip kids to be great curiousquestion askers and to have
those strong research skills andthen the communication skills
that can go with that.
I think, particularly for anelementary perspective too, like
we're helping kids understandthe world that they're born into
, like why things are the waythat they are, and sometimes
(44:03):
those are very big, heavy topicsand sometimes they're just a
lot of fun.
So one of my personal bucketlist goals in life is to be able
to like tell the story ofUnited States history through
team mascots and all of thestories and things that go
behind those.
So it doesn't always have to besuper heavy and doom and gloom,
though we don't want to avoidthose things right, so it's
(44:25):
balance.
It can be the fun parts aboutwhy certain teams got the name
that they got because of thelocation that they're in or a
significant part in history thatthat, that that played which,
when you're, when you're helpingkids understand, like this, is
why things are the way that theyare.
Then they understand it and aremore willing to jump into it
(44:46):
and enter into civic engagementtoo and those are so fun.
Liz Evans (44:52):
I actually remember, uh, when I taught ap government,
we were looking at um, asupreme court case it was uh tam
versus mattel on whether or notthe use of uh the band named
the slants, went against the ustrademark um, and this band was
(45:12):
asian, american and it actuallybrought up the case of the
Washington Redskins and they hadsuch a very.
It was so curious and soconstitutional about whether or
not, you know, teams shouldchange their name and what does
it mean to be, you know, to havethese names that maybe have
(45:37):
outgrown what they were, and itwas so interesting.
And I will be very interestedto see your telling of American
history through mascots, becausethat's fun.
Like that kind of stuff is fun.
You're right, it doesn't alwayshave to be, you know, heavy.
It can be things like why do wecelebrate the things we
(46:02):
celebrate?
And you know, why do we usefirecrackers on the 4th of July,
like.
Those are questions that maybekids haven't ever thought of,
but those are actually greathistorical questions.
Brandon, jamie, rebecca, I wantto thank you, I mean for all the
work you did with the cohortand all of these incredible
lessons that you created, butalso for taking time to have
(46:22):
this conversation with me.
I really hope that there isteachers out there, because we
heard from an elementary andmiddle school and a high school
teacher and we're all over thenation I'm in Arizona, rebecca's
in Iowa, brandon you're inMissouri and Jamie you're on the
East Coast of New Jersey.
There's so much variety here.
So thank you for your time andthank you for what you do in the
(46:47):
classroom.
Brandon Westlake (46:50):
Thank you, Liz .
Rebecca Helland (46:52):
Appreciate the opportunity.
Jamie Warner (46:53):
Thanks, yes, thank you so much for having me.
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