EPD's: Helpful or Misleading

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In this episode of 'Around the Chute' the hosts delve into the intricacies of Expected Progeny Differences (EPDs) and their influence on livestock selection. They discuss the unpredictability and sometimes misleading nature of EPDs, the importance of phenotypic traits, and share personal anecdotes about calving, heifer management, and foot traits. The role of marketing, both traditional and digital, in livestock sales is debated along with innovative ideas for interactive catalogs. The conversation also touches on generational differences in cattle breeding and the impact of genomic data on cattle selection. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the value of relationships, networks, and honest communication in the cattle industry.

Episode Transcript

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:00):
Hit the button.

(00:00):
We're recording guys.
Here we go.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:03):
Oh boy.
Welcome into around the shoot.
We're talking about the wordsVince uses on a daily basis
these days.
Vince.
Vince, are there any wordsyou've got cooked up for the
episode today that you're justgonna throw out?
There I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:17):
Well, all I can say is it's gonna be a
word salad.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:22):
is it gonna be excellent?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:24):
for me though.
It'll be excellent.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (00:26):
It'll be excellent.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (00:27):
So how about you guys limiting me to
words that cost under a dollar.
That's what Vince was justsaying.
I couldn't use no

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:33):
Well, you, you gotta dumb it down for
me, buddy.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (00:37):
All right.
Let me

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:38):
You gotta remember I was, I was not
a scholar.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (00:41):
yeah.
Okay.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:42):
You know, we, I think at, at this
point, all of our listeners haveread your sail book and the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:48):
No,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:49):
The news is out.
Ladies and gentlemen, VinceSantini is educated.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:54):
no.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (00:55):
Oh yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:57):
I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:57):
yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (00:57):
the, the, oh me,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:00):
Can, can we move on?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02):
the, uh, the facade is over.
We know who you really are.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:07):
The

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:08):
Oh heck,

joe_1_03-16-2025_17273 (01:08):
Letter's incredible.
The Tony letter's incredible,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:11):
Amy helped me with it.
Amy helped me with it.
Amy's the, the shining star, notme.
I say what I, I say what I sayin my words and she makes me
sound smart.
She fixes it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24):
she

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24):
fixes it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:25):
and then she puts excellence.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:27):
She fixes it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:28):
she

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:28):
Yes.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:29):
upon.
It was well written, it wasn'toverdone, it was just, it was
touching and it was heartfelt,and it was cool.
I thought it was really special.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:38):
Well, I appreciate it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:40):
I was happy.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:40):
So you're.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:41):
to read it.
I was done reading.
I, I didn't read the coverletter.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:45):
It's too much, too long.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (01:47):
words.
It was too much words.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:49):
Two L two LDR.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:50):
TLDR.
Yeah.
Too long.
Didn't read.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:53):
You know what?
You know what in your sale bookis not TLDR

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:57):
What?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:58):
Tell us about the cover.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:00):
The cover's a throwback from, uh,
1996.
Uh, we wanted to do somethingdifferent and I was going
through a bunch of old salecatalogs and that was one of our
favorites.
Um, years ago, Jody Johnson usedto have a publication called The
Angus Hub, and um, she, I don'tknow if she did it herself or

(02:22):
she had an artist come up withthat.
I've actually got a picture ofit hanging in my, uh, office, a
framed picture of it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:29):
the, did you guys have to do anything
to the color scheme or was italready that, that exact

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:35):
The only thing they did, the girls
at Angus were able to scan thatand then lift the wordage,
somehow delete all the old wordsfrom the 96 and put all the new
stuff on it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:51):
That is pretty neat though.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:53):
was pretty cool.
Yeah, they did a great job.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (02:56):
Did you have to send them?
I'm

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (02:59):
I might keep it forever.
I might keep it forever.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:01):
did you have to send them like a
original sale book or they just,you sent'em a picture of that
and they

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:06):
I sent'em a picture of it.
Yeah.
How cool is that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:10):
Way cool.
Incredibly

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:11):
Oh, well now wait a minute.
They could have found it in thearchives.
Yeah, they could have maybefound it.
I don't know.
I don't know if Angus Media didthat then,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:22):
I don't know that they have'em
archived that far back.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:25):
the hub, like the, the hub might
have done it

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:28):
Mm

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:29):
in 96.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19 (03:30):
probably have a copy of it in the dungeon
at, at in St.
Joe, but they, they, they don't

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:35):
I would, I wouldn't doubt if Tom
Burke had a copy of it somewhere

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:40):
sure.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:40):
bet he does.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:41):
when you said there's a picture in
your house, is that like acommissioned piece of

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:46):
in my office.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:47):
and Okay, in your office, your

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:48):
Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:49):
Hey, called him and that's like oil
painting or watercolor or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:53):
no.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (03:54):
no.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:55):
I don't know that it's an oil
painting.
It's just a picture.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (03:59):
I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:00):
Not, not everything has to be fancy,
Joe.
It does have a fancy framearound it.
I'll send you a picture of it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (04:05):
Send me a picture.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:06):
that tree?
Is it a weeping willow?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (04:08):
That's what it looks like.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:09):
Do y'all have any of those in
Tennessee?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:11):
I put one in the front yard of the
sail barn.
I actually had two and the windblew one of'em over there.
Used to be one on the creek downhere.
And a flood.
A flood.
Got it.
Years ago.
So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:24):
uh, my grandparents had one of those
in their backyard, I'm prettysure growing up and I remember
that tree, I always had theselittle squiggly little things
that would fall out of it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:31):
did they have to, uh, is that what
the, they had to go get theirown switch when they were in
trouble, they'd go get it off ofthat tree.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:39):
I never got in trouble when I was
younger.
I was a good kid.
I was

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:45):
Yeah, right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:46):
I was, I was pretty tame, you
know?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:48):
I'm gonna believe that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (04:49):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (04:50):
is that the tree that the Shady Brook
logo came from and like that's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:54):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (04:55):
that Shady Brook, like a brook that
goes through there, or you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (04:58):
Yeah.
So we got a, a creek that goesall the way through the middle
of the farm.
And I want to think it was JimHinton, you remember JO Hinton?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (05:06):
No, I don't.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:07):
Uh, he would've ran around years
ago.
He was a Tennessee guy.
He would've ran around years agowith like Joe, bill Ming and all
them.
And, uh, I think they were alljust sitting around one night
talking and he came up with it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (05:19):
Wow,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:20):
So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:21):
that neat?

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (05:22):
that's the story I was told.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:23):
now 40 some odd years later, the,
the shady brick name is on yourpocket t.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:30):
Yeah.
How about that?
Come on,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (05:32):
Yeah.
Hey, should we bring up themerch deal?
Should we talk about how, uh,because by the time we drop this
episode, it's prob we'reprobably gonna have merch that's
available to buy.
not gonna guarantee anything,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:45):
you buy a pocket?

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (05:47):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So we're gonna have a shirtthat's called the Vince, and
it's a little bit more money toget that pocket on there.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:53):
The,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:54):
The Vinny, the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:55):
the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (05:55):
I'm sure that can be arranged too.
Vinny.
The Vinny.
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, we're gonna have some merchavailable pretty quick.
I don't know, I don't know ifyou guys are as excited as I am,
but I think it's gonna beawesome.
Um, they're really costeffective and, and the best
thing about it is you order itand it, and it should be shipped

(06:15):
to your door within a week.
And

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:17):
we,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:18):
go ahead

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:19):
can we get a, can we get her Wild, A
printed wild rag for Joe withthe logo on it?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1 (06:24):
Actually, I think we can only get Conchos
Conchos.
Con shows, we'll put those onthere too.
They might be a little out somepeople's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:33):
we'll get a grill, diamond Grill on
our, on our,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (06:36):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:36):
on our people.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (06:38):
Yeah.
I've got enough teeth to put aton.
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (06:42):
I wanna address something there.
I mean, the hard part was we hadso many people reach out to us.
Jackson sent me a couplerenditions or ad copies.
Thank you Jackson too.
What, what are you doing?
Am I too

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (06:54):
Get closer.
Yeah.
You're too far away.
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (06:56):
but Jackson sent me a couple, um,
just kind of some proofs andCorbin was in a better spot.
He has somebody he has arelationship with.
We had so many people reach outto us and then it was like, oh,
now I feel terrible choosing whowe're gonna choose.
So thank you to the person thatCorbin has a relationship with
that's gonna help us with thisproject.
We really need a lot ofhandholding and they're doing

(07:17):
that.
And thank you to everyone elsewho offered their services.
Um, the proximity there justworked for everybody and, and
it's a project.
Corbin can kind of take the leadon.
So thank you Corbin for thattoo, by the way.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (07:30):
Yeah, it was Brian.
Brian and, uh, and Steelwater,and his wife.
They're the ones that are gonnahandle that force.
And yeah, it was ultimately oneof those deals where it was
like, we're doing this.
Just lock it in.
it, it was one of those thingsthat was kind of hanging over my
head.
It was something I knew I neededto do and something that I knew
that, that we had talked about,Brian stayed on me enough where

(07:53):
I was like, you know what?
Let's just get this, let's,let's get something knocked out.
And he's actually coming, to myplace from Stillwater next week
with a proof and everything.
So, uh, I appreciate the legworkhe's done to get that all
rolling.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:08):
I was fixing to just print a logo and
laminate it and glue it on myshirt.
I was, that's where I was at.
I was that close.
Thank you, Brian.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:19):
you probably could have, it would've
worked.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:21):
Well, this would look a lot better.
I was gonna actually glue it onone of Joe's hats.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (08:27):
Yeah.
Lucy

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (08:28):
I got new hats coming.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:30):
Lucy has one of those cricket things,
and she could have made them,but she's not set up to do it
very

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:36):
This is,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:36):
we could do like one order a week

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:39):
you can do, you can do a shirt for
Myah and that's about it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:42):
and don't wash it because

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:44):
And don't, yeah, don't watch

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (08:46):
Corbin, why?
Why does your background notlook the same as it usually
looks?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:51):
I'm traveling.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (08:54):
Where you at?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:54):
who can you not hear?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (08:56):
Joe.
He's so far away.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (08:58):
on top.
The microphone literally on topof it.
I don't know what's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (09:01):
Okay.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (09:01):
on, but go ahead.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (09:03):
Yeah.
I brought, uh, threw David Cray,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (09:06):
Thank you.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (09:07):
on the trailer.
I just wanna thank him for Oh,you were telling Vince.
Thank you.
My bad.
I wanted to, I wanted to.
Come up here and look around alittle bit.
And so I threw his bull on thetrailer and, and came up to
David's place and, and wentthrough his cows and threw his
bulls.
And um, then went to triple Cand I'm just basically taking my

(09:29):
time, getting home.
I told Milah that, or I toldMilah that I was going a bull
and she said, well, where areyou going?
I said, well, I'm going to morethan one state.
And she said, well, what statesare you going to?
well, I'm going to Kansas, I'mgoing to Nebraska, I'm going to
Iowa, I'm going to South Dakota.
I'll be through all thosestates.
And she said, wait, you're goingto Kansas?

(09:50):
That's where Dorothy's from.
I'm like, yeah, that's whereDorothy's from.
Okay, well go find her and bringher home.
So tomorrow on my way home, I'mgonna go stop at the, uh, of Oz
museum.
So I actually have to go outtathe way, like an hour, but to
just to see that smile on herface.
It's gonna be fine.
It's gonna be worth it.
And it's, it's gonna bepriceless.

(10:11):
She's,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:11):
Send pictures.
Send us pictures.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:14):
She, uh, she's gotten into this deal
where she just loves like oldermovies.
Like she loves Willy Wonka withGene Wilder and, uh, Matilda
that movie from the nineties,which is one that I watched when
I was younger.
Um, and then Wizard of Ozobviously is a classic.
So, um, she's really upset thatJudy Garland's dead really upset

(10:35):
about it.
She's like, well, what's shedoing now?
Well, Myla actually, she died ofdrug abuse at age of 40,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:43):
Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (10:45):
yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:47):
What the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (10:48):
yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:49):
I think maybe you shouldn't be
alone with Myla sometimes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (10:53):
she's gonna be a,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:54):
Wrong information.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (10:56):
She's gonna have a lot of knowledge.
She's gonna be a smart

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (10:58):
I, I can see them watching it in
school.
And do you know she died of drugabuse?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (11:03):
Yeah.
The.
She's, she's talked about Elvisfor a couple years.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:08):
Oh my god.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:09):
He's our favorite musical artist.
Why does my kid enjoy vintagepeople and

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (11:14):
Did you, did you tell her?
What'd you tell her about Elvis?
Did you tell her that he wasjust stuck with the astronauts
that had been up there for eightmonths?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:22):
That is not on me.
That one's not on me.
That one's on Lucy.
They were at a restaurant andthey had Elvis paintings on the
wall.
And so Milo was like, Hey, Iknow who that is, that's Elvis.
And my, and Lucy, for whateverreason, was like, yeah, Milo,
don't be like Elvis.
He did drugs.
So,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:39):
they found him dead laying over his
commode.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (11:42):
Yeah, he was, he died taking a dump if
you wanna know the truth.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:45):
Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:47):
So, Vince, I gotta ask you, what
does Joe's video look like rightnow?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:51):
It looks like greenish.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:55):
It's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:55):
looks like he's an alien.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (11:57):
you want me to

vince_1_03-16-2025_19 (11:57):
Honestly,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (11:58):
on like last time?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (11:59):
no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:00):
His.
So on my end, it's like threeminutes back,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (12:06):
Really?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:06):
I swear.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:07):
What do you mean?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (12:08):
right now, but he is not laughing in
real life.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (12:11):
That's a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:11):
no, it's, it's fine.
It's your phone, it's your, see,if you had a Lenovo, you
wouldn't have these problems,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:17):
No.
Yeah.
Need to upgrade.
It is.
Time to upgrade.
So

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (12:21):
huh?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:22):
what has been going on in Tennessee
lately?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (12:24):
Holy moly.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:26):
We had some of them, their Nader,
you know what a Nader is?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:30):
I know what a tow Nader

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (12:32):
It's a tornado.
We had a lot of tornadoesaround, um, actually Mickey
Allen at Sweet Gum, it wentbetween one of his farms and his
neighbor's farm and tore up somestuff.
I don't, I don't think it toreup anything at Mickey's.
Um, but like, that's less than10 miles from here.
I think there was a couple of'emin Florence, um, which is about

(12:54):
20 miles from here.
There was a lot, a lot of badweather.
I know.
Um, Alabama got hit hard.
I know.
Uh, Randall had some damage andman, it was just, it was, they
were calling it like acatastrophic storm that was
coming.
Luckily all we had was someflooding and nothing major and

(13:19):
we can fix it all.
I mean, we'll clean the fencesup, hang, uh, hang some water
gaps back up and, um.
We'll be good to

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:29):
So

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:30):
fix the roads.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:31):
do you take those water gaps?
Do you, do you do anything tothem in preparation for a bunch
of rain?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:37):
Nah, all it is is a, it's a hot wire
strung across and it's gotdangly chains on it

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (13:44):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:44):
and most everything will go right
through'em.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (13:47):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (13:48):
but if the water gets high enough
and a log or something comesdown, it will actually hit the
wire that they're hung from andsnap it.
So it's just a piece of hightinsel wire.
We just pop it right backtogether.
It's not a big deal.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (13:59):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:00):
Yeah.
Easy, easy.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:02):
Easy

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (14:02):
Corbin, do you have, do you have water
gaps you take down or no.
Corbin?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:08):
Me?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:09):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (14:09):
talking to Vince.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (14:10):
No Corbin.
Do you have water gaps?
'cause you asked him.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:13):
we do have water gaps and it's one
of those deals where they're insome really, really high timber
places and so, um, yeah.
We don't really have to take'emdown.
It's, they need to be repairedevery once in a while, but, uh,
it's not one of those deals thatI go check every time it rains.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (14:33):
I'd say we, we have a couple on a couple
different places that are setup.
When the river gets really high,it'll blow'em out on purpose.
We have it where the wire willbreak and it blows out, and then
the whole thing like works likea hinge, and then we just gotta
collect the wire, bring it backup and stretch it.
But if we made it tight to bothsides, it'd pull out the
corners.
It'd cause cra crazy issues.

(14:55):
But those water gaps are set upto blow out like that?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (14:58):
What are they like?
Are they solid?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:01):
No,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (15:02):
Like there's a lot of guys around
here that are trying to make aswinging one, and we've made
swinging ones before, butthey're just so heavy and
they're too big.
Bulky.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:09):
I've seen all kinds of them, like
these ones just operate almostlike a, just a wire gate, like,
you know, just a, a wire gatethat you take off the hinges
and, and or take off the hinges.
Take off where it latches andthen peel it back.

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (15:22):
Mm-hmm.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:23):
seen somewhere people take like inch
and a half gauge cable and runit across a creek, and then it
has tin on the backside of somecattle

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (15:30):
Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:32):
And those will just kind of swing
with the logs, and the logs willgo under it.
And usually those are prettycool.
But ours, the biggest ones we'dhave at the end of the season,
when you got cattle out ofthere, you just open up the
water gaps.
You just peel back the, peelback the fence.
And then I have another one,like I said, that it's set up to
break on purpose.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (15:51):
Is it electric or barbed wire?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:53):
it's barbed wire.
It's barbed wire.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (15:55):
got you.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (15:55):
But I know that you're a, you're like
a Gallagher rep or something,aren't you?
Aren't you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:01):
Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (16:02):
or you can, you use a lot of products?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:04):
I am.
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (16:06):
the store up here, I don't know if
it's Gallagher or Stay Fix orone of those other companies,
but they've got little sensorsthat are set up for areas that
flood like that, where it won'tshort out your whole fence or
something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (16:17):
Really?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (16:18):
So

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (16:18):
That's cool.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (16:18):
them on?
Yeah, and I don't know anythingabout'em'cause I don't use them,
but they're set up for watergaps so that it doesn't short
out your whole fence.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:26):
Do you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:27):
used to have a few of those.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (16:28):
Vince, any of your

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:29):
No,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:30):
or anything of that?
No.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19 (16:31):
generally no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (16:33):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (16:34):
the way we make our gaps there, it
is just a chain

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (16:37):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19 (16:38):
dangling.
So, um, if the creek changes andit, um, so like one year, I, I
got to notice in between onefield in particular, the creek
had shifted so they were tooshort on one side and they were
too long on the other side.
Well, the ones that were toolong, we could just take'em up a
link or two.
The ones that were too short, wehad to make a longer one, you

(16:59):
know, put a new chain on it.
But it's really not a big dealand it really works great,
honestly.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (17:07):
So

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (17:07):
mean, like, I would even think that
grass would get in those chainlinks, but they don't, like,
they're just stay clean.
If a log or a limb or somethingcomes floating through there,
they're just kind of spreadoutta the way and come right
back.
They're really nice.
I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (17:21):
it sounds like it.
So when you said that you hadsome, like Randall had some
issues or something, is thatjust like a shed had had a piece
of tin fly off, or we're talkinglike leveled

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (17:30):
No, like erosion, uh, water gaps,
erosion ditches.
Like some, I think he sent somepictures of maybe some ditches
that I, I don't think would beworthy of a water gap.
You would just have the fenceand, you know, it normally
wouldn't have that much watergoing through it, but they were
flooded so bad and debris got onit and kinda laid some of his

(17:51):
fences over and washed some ofhis roads out like it did here
and stuff like that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (17:56):
issue.
We do have that issue here.
Um, or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (17:59):
Your roads,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (18:01):
I mean, it's crazy, our county if
we'll get four inches of rain inan hour, but when that happens,
not,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (18:10):
no, you can't do anything.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (18:12):
for that.
And so it, water will go overthe road and it will be
impassable until that waterquits running.
Um, but that's pretty, that'spretty standard for us at this
point is, is in the springtimeand in the, in the certain times
of year we're lobb to get reallybig rain at one time.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (18:29):
Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (18:30):
Man, I just seeing all those
tornadoes and everything, myheart goes out to those people
because it's something that we,it's the fear we live with, um,
know, in the certain times ofthe year.
It's something we have to worryabout every day, you know?
Yeah.
It doesn't even have to be onthe radar for where I'm at.
It could just, don't even haveto know what's coming.
Sometimes, sometimes the stormstorm will just pop up and

(18:51):
you'll be blown away.
And so, definitely heart goesout to the people that are
having to deal with the damagein the aftermath.
And I'm glad I didn't hear avery of any, injuries or
fatalities.
Did you

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:04):
I don't think I did either.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (19:06):
I didn't, but I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:07):
I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_17273 (19:07):
pictures of, I think Mississippi, where
it just looked leveled.
And I don't know enough anymoreabout all this internet picture
stuff, if it's fake or if it'sAI generated or whatever, but it
looked absolutely decimated.
If we have any listeners down inthat area that had a problem,
let us know so we could directsome help accordingly.

(19:27):
But, um, I haven't heardanything.
Do you guys know

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:30):
So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:31):
I do

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:32):
go ahead.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:32):
in, our friends in Para gold, uh,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:35):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (19:36):
which there's, there's quite a few of
them.
Arkansas Boys, they did havesome damage.
I think it missed, I tried toreach out to each one of them
that I, that I thought of.
Um, I don't know that I got gotto all of'em, but I think they
were all good.
It just, it mainly hit ta, hitthe city, hit the town

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (19:52):
Oh, okay.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:53):
and did some

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (19:54):
A few years ago, a big one went
through there.
'cause I remember watching avideo.
A guy had videoed it, wentthrough the town.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (20:00):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:01):
Toor said that they had'em all night
long and were still having himthe next morning all around him.
So he's down south Mississippi.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (20:11):
Then the livestock would generally be
okay if they can kind of getaway, right?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:16):
Yeah, you just.
Gotta hope they're gonna bethere.

korbin_1_03-16-2 (20:18):
unfortunately, that's not your priority at that
time.
You've gotta get your familysafe.
I know Vince went to his mom'sand had his, had Amy's mom come
over there and it's basically,it is all hands on deck.
Let's keep our family safe.
Safe.
Um, and then, and then as soonas that storm passes, we will
go, we'll go handle what wegotta

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:37):
Yeah,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (20:37):
that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:38):
we came, we came as soon as they
said it was, the tornado threatswere over.
We came straight back and I wasable to ride through in the
daylight a little bit to see, soin in the movie Twister, there
was a cow.
You remember that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (20:51):
and a, and a fuel tanker or Cat

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:53):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (20:54):
I saw that with the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (20:55):
see the new twister?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (20:57):
yeah, I didn't know what to think of it
though.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:00):
Uh, we didn't make it through it.
Uh, actually, actually, I takethat back.
Lucy did.
I got, I didn't, and I turned itoff.
I didn't, didn't jive with mebecause I literally like man.
That happens here all the time.
I ain't watching this.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:14):
Was that real?
What was that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (21:15):
the original twister was just a
little more plausible.
It was still bad stuff, but itwas plausible.
This other one was just alittle, I don't know.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:23):
on the new one at the very
beginning, you've literallywatched people get sucked into
the tornado and you're like, Idon't wanna watch that.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (21:30):
Yeah, yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:31):
What were you gonna say a second ago,
Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (21:34):
I don't know.
I'm sidetracked now and I thinkabout that clip with Aunt May.
That's my favorite part ofTwister.
the guy, they all coerce alltheir buddies to go over there
for food.
Like food, food.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:46):
his, uh, the, what's the Philip
Seymour Hoffman.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:49):
Yes.
He was an awesome actor.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:51):
an awesome actor and along came
Polly

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:54):
Yes,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (21:55):
funny.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (21:56):
he sharded.
Yeah, RainDance Make it rain.
Did he ever even make one?
He never made one.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (22:05):
I remember what I was gonna say,
Vince, so you, I got a snap fromyou that was way behind.
'cause I was outta town and Iwasn't paying attention to this
stuff.
You moved all your semen tanksor something.
Where'd you take'em?
You take'em to a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (22:16):
I just, I put'em in the room where
they belong.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (22:19):
They,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (22:19):
Oh,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (22:19):
yeah, he

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (22:20):
I,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (22:20):
in from outside.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (22:22):
we have a, we have a bench.
No, we have a bench behind the,some bleachers and, and it's
perfect height.
So if you're ever shufflingseaming around or you're doing
an inventory and it's longenough, we can just line'em all
up there.
So the laziness kicks in and weget to messing with one.

(22:43):
So I bring one out and I set iton there, and then I.
The next time I'm looking forthis semen or whatever, oh, it's
in that tank.
Bring it out here.
So I fished around, so they juststayed lined up on there and
last night there's like an innerroom of the building and I
thought, yeah, I might ought toput them back in the room where
they belong, just in case.
You never know.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (23:04):
uh, Joe, do you have more or less
semen tanks than Vince has?
Because I think I saw like eightin that video.
How many you got, Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (23:12):
Uh, I got seven and a empty one.
I mean, just one that I keep fora dumper to refill or fill a
shipper and I have a shipper andthen there's two more in other
Blakes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (23:25):
How

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (23:26):
So

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (23:26):
have, Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (23:27):
I have

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (23:28):
he pays somebody is what he does.
He pays somebody to store it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_1727 (23:31):
somebody.
I need to because it's way tooexpensive.
If, if we go and take'em to thewelding shop, it's like, it's
between five and 700 bucks tofill my tanks.
And so I've got three of thegreat, great big ones.
I've got two that are myfavorites, which are like a
little bit taller.
I think they're 20, 25,something like that.
They're a little wider mouth soyou can see in them.

(23:53):
Um, and I put tape on those.
So I put like just mass tape on'em all the way around the
mouth.
And then I write on'em, and thenI breed out of those ones
because I don't like the littleteeny tiny ones.
Um, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (24:05):
What's the tape for?
Wait a minute.
What's the tape for?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:08):
on it where a bull is,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:11):
You don't have a sheet of paper.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:12):
no, no.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:13):
You don't have a sheet of paper,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:15):
That's all color coded and everything.
No, no, I don't, I don't, I, mysemen inventory is a disaster.
I just know

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (24:21):
same.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:22):
where it all kind of is and what we
all kind of got and,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (24:26):
right?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:27):
but on as I'm breeding, no.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1 (24:29):
something right now?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:31):
Well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:31):
What

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:31):
on what you're gonna petition.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:33):
can we just put the bull's freaking
name on top of

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (24:36):
They're working on it.
Most people do.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (24:39):
Yeah.
No, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (24:39):
wasn't on, his fellow was on his.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:42):
I bought some, uh, SAV prosperity
semen, uh, like two or threeyears ago, which I still have
it.
It doesn't even have anything onthe top.
It's just a blank cane.
It

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (24:53):
It don't have a number.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (24:54):
doesn't have anything.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (24:55):
That's because somebody shafted you and
they bought, you bought it like18th hand

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1 (25:01):
Probably.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:01):
been thawed.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:02):
It rattled around in the bottom of
somebody's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:04):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:05):
lottery tickets and cinnamon

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (25:07):
Going, going back, you said it was 700
bucks to fill yours.
You know what our friend Waylontold me in uh, Hawaii, how much
it cost to fill one tank,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:19):
I can't remember, but it was a lot.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:21):
like over$900 to fill one tank.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:24):
A small one too.
I bred outta that tank.
It's small.
And, and he

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:29):
That is insane.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:31):
So he gathers up all his semen at like
World West or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:34):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:34):
or

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:35):
I

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:35):
it is that he's gathering it at that
time and

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (25:37):
think it was Hawkeye.
I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (25:38):
and whatever he doesn't use, they
just throw away because theycan't, they gotta try to.
Now I think that there's, Ican't remember.
There was a young lady there whowas super handy.
She did a good job, Hailey.
She was breeding and I think shebred some horses, worked for a
horse repro facility and theywere gonna start working with
her on trying to store some orsomething like that.

(25:59):
Um, but yeah, it's superexpensive.
It's super, super expensive.
So I've got a lot of tanksthough, Corbin, I do, I do have
a lot of tanks and I do a poorjob of inventory, that's for
sure.
And then I have a bunch ofsemens stored at other
facilities that, that's way, waycheaper.
And I, I've thought about justgetting rid of all my tanks and
having all my semen at one placeand just one little breeding,

(26:22):
one little breeding tank is allI thought about having honestly.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:25):
the problem is, is you use a bull
and then you've got four strawsleft from the year before,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (26:31):
Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:32):
and you don't end up using the bull
again.
Sometimes you do.
Sometimes you go back and usethat bull and you don't wanna
throw it away.
then that semen ends up gettingjust tossed in, tossed into a
canister, and it just sitsthere.
So.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:43):
then 10 years later you're like, oh
my God, this is like gold.
I still got four straws of thisbull.
He was awesome.
I thought he sucked at the time

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (26:53):
And do you guys

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:54):
or,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:55):
or he still sucks or he still sucks.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (26:58):
or I should just dump this out, or, I
think what I want to do, whatI'm gonna do is I'm gonna take
it out and I'm gonna wait tillsomebody's over at my house.
I'm gonna take it out and goburn'em with it.
Use it as a practical joke.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:11):
Put it in a, to stir their coffee

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (27:13):
stir that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:13):
stir.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (27:14):
Cool.
Just a cool down.
A quick little cool down.
Do you guys bend the tops

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (27:18):
cube.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (27:19):
on the part canes?
Do you bend the tops or no?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:22):
I bend it up.
Yeah, but then I get pissed off'cause I can't read what it is
and I bend it back down.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (27:27):
That's exactly what I do.
That's exactly what I do.
So I'll look in there and I'llgo, Ooh, there's 30 units of
thunder.
Then you go back and you'relike, no, actually there's a 10
and two ones.
So there's 12 units of freakingthunder.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (27:39):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And then, and then what?
I'd make myself so mad when Ibreak, when I've got, let's say
I've got 30 units on a bull andI'll go to breeding and I'll
break every single one of themcanes.
And so I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:51):
No, I don't do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (27:52):
ones.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:53):
I don't do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:54):
to just being stupid.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (27:56):
I make notes on our semen
inventory list and sometimes Ihave like some, I, I might need
10 more or something, so I, Ihave to put'em in a different
place in that tank and I'll makea note.
We gotta use this first'causethere's only four units of it,
and then we can go to the 10pack because I don't want two, I

(28:16):
don't want one with four and onewith two in it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (28:18):
right.
Yep.
Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:19):
I try to put'em all together, but I,
I, I, I get sidetracked.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (28:23):
You have the most organized semen
inventory of anyone I've everheard of in this

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:27):
I've got a notebook.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (28:29):
I know, but nobody I know has stuff like
that.
Everyone's semen inventory is a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:33):
I know somebody that does.
I sent you in the text.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (28:37):
Well, I don't know.
I can't watch that.
At the same time, it's probablynot

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:40):
Oh my God.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (28:43):
people?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (28:43):
That's amazing.
That's perfect.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (28:45):
people that pay, there are people that
pay good money to have theirsemen tanks inventoried,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (28:52):
That's nuts.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:54):
I could never pay somebody to go
through that.
I, I don't know, maybe I should.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (28:59):
I have a problem.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172 (29:00):
weaknesses here.
One of our weaknesses is semeninventory, for sure.
I, I would

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:05):
I have a huge problem paying
somebody to do something that Ican do because I have to pay
enough people to do stuff that Ican't do.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (29:15):
yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (29:16):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Or that you don't have time todo, or there's a, there's
certain things that I'verealized that it's, it's better
for me to pay someone to do itbecause they're gonna do it
quicker and they're gonna do it

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (29:29):
Like, um, like clipping sail cattle,
for instance, is a good one.
Um, that I could probably tackleif I wanted to, but at the same
time, they're gonna come do itin three or four hours, it'd be
done.
And it's just well worth, wellworth it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:44):
And they're used to it.
They have the tools.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:46):
and they do a good job.
And I would

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:48):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (29:48):
halfway decent job,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:50):
I'd stand back and be like, dang, I
did that.
And it'd be halfway done.
It wouldn't even be all the waydone.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (29:56):
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
You forgot the head.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (29:58):
Yeah.
Oh, we're.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (30:00):
So, uh, so what's the main topic
today?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (30:03):
I, you're at the mothership.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (30:07):
I'm at the mothership,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (30:09):
told everyone where you're recording
from.
You're sitting on blood cards Ithink.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (30:13):
I, I'm in St.
Joseph, Missouri, um, right nowas we speak, as we record.
So it's only fitting that wetalk about DNA and EPDs.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (30:26):
Oh, my favorite topic.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (30:30):
Yeah, it, it's, it's a very loaded
topic, I would say.
Wouldn't you think?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (30:35):
I don't think there's much more
polarizing thing to talk aboutin this breed.
I mean, I think, and we couldprobably dive into why it's
polarizing, um, it's probablythe same reason why there's
frustrations and there's peoplethat beat the drum of it and
everything.
And you know, try to ask myselfwhenever we get frustrated with

(30:55):
the accuracy and validity ofthese things though, is like, am
I frustrated because the EPDsdon't accurately describe these
cattle.
Or am I frustrated because ofthe marketing value associated
with these differences asdescribed?
And oftentimes I go back to thesecond, to be honest with you,

(31:17):
is it's like I'm just frustratedthat they've been used as
marketing tools and abused inthat fashion, when really
there's not that much actualdifference.
I mean, even you think about inthe marketplace, the difference
between a 80 on yearling and ahundred on yearling would be
huge.
it's 20 pounds.
And then there's also accuracyassociated with that.
So maybe it's 10 pounds on ayear old calf.

(31:38):
I mean that's, that's minor,minor, minor in, in the context
of your entire management andyour operation.
But in the marketplace it's alot of money.
So I don't know, I just wantedto tee it up in that fashion.
I hope that didn't derail youtoo far, Corbin.
But I think that most of myfrustrations lie in the
marketing exploitation of EPDsover the actual what they are.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (32:02):
yeah, you, you say that and that's
absolutely true.
When, when you talk about onebeing an 80 and then one being a
hundred, that that's only 20pounds.
that came to fruition, I.
In, in any way, shape, or form.
But it doesn't,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (32:17):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (32:18):
um, there are, I would say that the
spread of 20 is not, should, betighter.
You know what I'm saying?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (32:29):
The, the,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (32:30):
be tighter because if we go from 80
to a hundred, you don't knowany, it has, if one's a 60 and
one's a one 60, yeah, I can betthat that one, that's a one 60
on yearling is gonna, is gonnabe superior for growth.
But

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (32:47):
not necessarily,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (32:48):
You're right.
You're right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (32:50):
because the other thing you gotta take
into account is if it isn't, ifit's older genetics,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (32:57):
You're getting hammered.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (32:58):
you're getting hammered and those, I
have proven those to outgrow.
The new genetics, but the EPDson the new genetics are half,
again, better than the oldergenetics and the older genetics
outweigh them and with actualdata.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (33:16):
Yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (33:17):
And so you can't, you can't even do
that apples to apples, right?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (33:22):
and then, and then you can't, with
real raw data, you cannot, it's,it's, it's, once it's set in
stone, you're not moving thatthing, you're not moving those
numbers enough to do any good.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (33:34):
No, you're not

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (33:35):
Like, like let's say you, let's say
I've got an old donor cow that'san 85 for a year lin weight, and
she's at the top of the topevery year for her calves.
Wean the heaviest, they'reheaviest at a year for 10 years
in a row.
Her numbers are not changing.
You cannot, even if you'recomparing'em against, um, great

(33:55):
big growth numbers, you're notmoving those numbers.
Once they're, they are wherethey are.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (34:00):
Well.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (34:00):
that's, that's one of the frustrating
thing they'll go down.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (34:04):
That's what I was fixing to say is the
way this whole thing is set up,it's all false.
They will take a new bull thatyou are, they want you to think
is really good because thealgorithm said he was really
good and in two years he will bedown and the new bull will be up

(34:28):
taking his place.
And they haven't even gottenmuch actual data in,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (34:34):
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (34:34):
they've set him up for failure out of
the gate.
Because my take on it is if, ifthe, let's just, let's just use
easy numbers.
If the mother on yearling is a100 and the sire is a one 10,
the calf should be a 1 0 5.
But if genomic says he is a rockstar, they make him a 1 57.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (34:59):
Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (34:59):
70.
Why, why don't we say, okay,well, genomic says he is a rock
star.
Let's make him a 1 25 and lethim earn the rest of it with
actual data.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (35:09):
Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (35:10):
But they don't do that.
They set him up here at 175 andeverybody runs and uses him, and
before the calves are on theground, he's down to a one 50.
And before they're, they're thefirst wet daughter is there and
has a baby.
She, he's down, he's down to ahundred and they do it every

(35:30):
year.
It's, it's asinine is what itis, and people buy into it every
year over and over and over.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (35:38):
Well, and I'll tell you another thing,
uh, we've gotta use our eyes onsome of this stuff because one
of the things I've noticed,let's just use this as an
example because it, it's, it'sactually something that, that
can be affected.
If we've got a bull that's aplus nine on his DNA and you
call him a heifer bull, and thenthree months later that bull's.

(36:00):
Without having anybody, havingused him, without anybody
touching him, he's already at aplus four.
So getting into some, we can getinto some trouble where, where
we're marketing some stuff asheifer bulls, or we're marketing
stuff as high growth and thendoesn't, it doesn't work out
that way.

(36:20):
And so it comes back on thebreeder.
And that kind, that's somethingthat kind of makes me nervous
from time to time.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (36:26):
All three of us used the bull.
That was a heifer bull when weused him.
And then by the time the beforethe calves hit the ground, they
bumped him to a 3.9 birth weight

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (36:36):
Which bull was that?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192 (36:37):
clarion.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (36:39):
Cion.
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (36:40):
He was like a one nine.
And we, I bred heifers to himand now he's like a three nine.
But guess what?
I didn't pull any of them.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (36:49):
well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (36:50):
A one.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (36:50):
well, and that, and that's actually,
uh.
That's, that's actually good.
A good way to put, you know,because something's a three nine
doesn't mean, doesn't mean theycan't have them.
So, I mean, there is some, asilver

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (37:04):
Did you ever see that chart?
Did you guys ever see that chartof the CESE deal?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (37:11):
Oh yeah.
Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (37:12):
Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (37:12):
had sent it to me.
Robert sent it to me.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (37:14):
and you sent it to me.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (37:15):
nuts that people go, berserko worried
about this stuff, and they don'teven, they don't even have to.
I mean, the, the study was howmany of'em are actually pulled
and it's, it's so minimal.
It's crazy.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (37:35):
Yeah, it is.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (37:38):
Well, so about the young sire thing,
one thing that I noticed, um,and we'll get to functional
longevity at the end, but I was,I just did a sort and I've
always said, with enough data,all cattle will gravitate back
towards average.
You pull progeny proofs on someof these bows that have
thousands and thousands andthousands of records, and you'll
find that it's a big deal if abull is consistently Ratioing

(38:00):
102 at weaning or 102 onyearling over a long, long
period of time.
But I'm trying to find it hereIt is, if you do, if you log in,
'cause you can't just do it fromoutside, you have to log in to
online.
And then you go to functionallongevity and you do a sort by
the progeny observed.
So it's the highly, highlyaccurate sis for functional

(38:22):
longevity.
And you get to the top 35 bulls,top 35 bulls for functional
longevity progeny submissions.
How many of those 35 are abovebreed average for the trait?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (38:37):
No clue

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (38:38):
25.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (38:39):
25

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (38:40):
above.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (38:41):
Yeah,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (38:42):
Out of 40.
Out of 40.
Random selection of the highly,highly accurate sars, six above
breed average,

korbin_1_03-16-202 (38:51):
Interesting.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (38:52):
out of 40 the sort in reverse.
And of the bottom 41 Cires foraccuracy in the entire breed.
How many of the bottom 41 foraccuracy above breed average for
the trait 25.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (39:10):
I was backwards.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (39:12):
So to me that just says a couple
things and, and, and I've beentrying to unpack it and I was
like, okay, well maybe ourproducers consistently pulling
out the wrong bulls.
Is it in one vein?
Because this Angus breed is soterritorial and so tribal.
If you're using Gardener, youhave to use Gardener.
If you use SAV, you have to useSAV.
If you're using Coleman, youhave to use Coleman or what,
whatever you guys wanna say.

(39:33):
It's very tribal right now.
So I did that sort and I lookedat the individual bulls and
there was no correlation.
There was no correlation otherthan they, maybe they were
towards the top of registrationsat one point.
So I still think it would beinteresting to run that kind of,
I don't know if it's aregression analysis or what they
do a correlation analysis.
I don't know how it's said, butI would like to see what a

(39:56):
bull's yearling yearling weightEPD is.
that follows functionallongevity because I think those
are actually parallel traits.
The outliers for yearling weightare usually the ones that get
used within the Angus populationand lead registrations and have
the highest amount of progeny,and then consequently, a lot of
those cattle end up being alsolower for functional longevity
in

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (40:16):
Do you,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (40:16):
my hypothesis.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (40:17):
do you not think that at some point
we're be, we're so much betteroff by just trying to keep that
middle ground instead of, itseems like every time I use a
bull that is, um, like in thehigher.

(40:39):
Extreme.
I, I shouldn't say extreme, butit in the higher, say, top 10%
of, um, the EPDs.
They never, they never lead upto that.
But if, if we, if we continueand say, okay, our, our goal is
to just do 25% across the board,it's more consistent.

(41:03):
Does that make sense?
I don't know that I'm gettingoutta my mouth the way I want it
to, but

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (41:07):
Oh, absolutely you are.
I think you make a lot of sense.
It's like we're chasing outliersso much because it's easier to
sell extremes.
I mean, who's gonna be the firstone that puts an ad in the Angus
Journal that says Our cattle arejust average and do average
things?
But I always say,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (41:22):
yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (41:22):
I've told you guys this on the
podcast a lot, Tim and I,that's, that's our deal.
Compared to what?
Compared to what?
Well, if you have a commercialcustomer saying that my cows are
too big and my cows are toothis, or my cows are too that,
then why do we continue?
You'd probably actually have toselect for below breed average
for growth.
Well, who's really doing that?
Not very many people.

(41:43):
I know that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (41:43):
No,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (41:44):
not bold enough to do it, because in
the marketplace, those cattlearen't rewarded.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (41:48):
it has to be a specific sire that I
know is gonna do a specificthing, and I don't care what
does EPD say then?
And I want, I, I think that SIREis gonna like a full, like XT or
68, 0 7 or whatever, you know,their EPDs are not good.
But if you know, and you want toget that specific thing that

(42:13):
that bull does well and use itand hope that it works, because
you, let's be honest, you don'talways get the things that work
well like you want to everytime.
So I'm okay with that.
Like, I, I don't, I just, thenumbers are just out of the way.
For me in that point, I'm usinga specific sire for a specific,

(42:36):
as a specific tool to do aspecific thing, and I don't care
what the EPD say because I cantake that female and then turn
around and breed her tosomething to correct it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (42:48):
Well, Angus just came out.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (42:49):
do?
You do.
You wanna know what you can do?
Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (42:52):
What can I do?

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (42:53):
Introducing the algorithm.
Vitamin pack.
Tired of your bulls.
EPDs being, well, a littleunderwhelming.
Is he just not cutting it in thegenetic race?
Well, fret no more because thealgorithm vitamin pack is here
to supercharge his performancein just 72 hours.

(43:15):
Yes, three days.
as your bulls EPDs rise by 10%.
That's right, 10%, five, 10%.
We're talking stronger, morefertile offspring and those
genetically superior traitsthat'll have the entire herd
whispering.
Wow, look at that stud.

(43:36):
No more hoping for good enoughgenetics.
Just your bull a little vitaminboost.
And bam, he's a geneticpowerhouse.
It's like a DNA makeover, butwith way less drama.
So don't settle for average.
Give your bull the algorithm,oral vitamin pack because when
it comes to your cattle,mediocre is so last season.
Disclaimer, results may varybased on individual genetics,

(43:59):
environmental factors, andoverall health.
The 10% increase in EPDs is anaverage, not guaranteed for all
bulls.
Always consult with yourveterinary before starting any
new supplement regimen.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (44:07):
So if I feed double of that, will it
get me 20%

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (44:12):
Uh, I don't know.
It may, that may cause some.
That may cause some issues foryou down the road?
Um, I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (44:19):
like fertility?
Fertility's not important.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (44:21):
well, I mean, I would hate to, uh, to
use the, the tools that we haveavailable to use the, the
vitamin pack.
Um, I would hate for it tonegatively impact your herd.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (44:32):
Oh, no, no, I wouldn't want that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (44:34):
'cause that's, uh,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (44:35):
Oh, it doesn't impact your herd,
Corbin.
No, it doesn't impact your herd.
It just changes the EPD,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (44:41):
That's right.
It doesn't change the herd.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (44:44):
Uh, I mean, if I could do what I'm
gonna do and, and you promisedme that I was just going to get
a 10% increase, I mean, why thehell not?
But, um, I think when it comesright down to it, uh, do, do you
think that, that we just need totemper our expectations when it
comes to EPDs and theiraccuracies?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (45:05):
I think that people shouldn't
believe in them sowholeheartedly because I don't
think the accuracy is there.
I think they want you to thinkthe accuracy is there, but I
don't think the accuracy isthere.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (45:23):
it's, it's one of those deals where
it's like, if, if I have tocomplete, continue to hammer on
and then the response is always,well, it's just an expectation,
well then, then we need tochange our expectations, um,
going forward because we're,we're, we're teeing up a ball

(45:45):
that we can't hit

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (45:47):
Okay, so here, here's the way I see
it.
E everybody is, everybody is allabout this new foot EPD, and
trust me, I, I so wish it wasaccurate and right, because it
would be a helpful tool.
But the question is, you know,everybody's reading, oh, well

(46:08):
that thing's only, that thing'sin the top.
65% of the EPDs don't dare walkover there and look at its
freaking feet.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (46:15):
Right,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (46:16):
just go off the paper.
But here's the thing, how manypeople turn that data in?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (46:23):
right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (46:24):
So they're guessing.
They're guessing at a lot of it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (46:29):
Mm-hmm.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (46:29):
you don't have one of the sis that
is used by the people that isactually turning the data in,
then they're guessing it's yourstuff.
If you're not turning the datain on that dam, they're guessing
at your stuff.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (46:48):
Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (46:48):
wrong, Joe?
Correct me.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (46:50):
I think they're probably looking for a
mix of jeans that they think areassociated with something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192 (46:55):
Correct.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (46:56):
I also think, I don't know what it's
been about this year, guys,because this, these footy PDs
have been out for, gosh, they'vebeen out for six, seven years
now, maybe eight years.
I might be wrong, but I'm, I'mpretty sure they came out way
before covid.
I'd have to, I should have donea history lesson before this,
and I've had an epidemic of thisspring guys calling me, going

(47:18):
The feet on these Angus cattleare wretched right now.
What's going on?
What's going on?
What's going on?
When I see more extremeobservations of foot improvement
across the board.
And then you look at the, youlook at the distribution of
phenotypes released by the ANSAssociation, the bell-shaped
curve center is still at a five,five and a half.

(47:38):
I think it's like right in thecenter.
They say the outliers are to oneside and outliers are to the
other.
So I just think that sometimesthe EPDs, if not rooted in the
context of reality, us a falsesense of hope.
They give us a false sense of,false sense of reality.
I mean, why not just go look atthe cattle?
Why not look and say, thesecattle haven't caused me any

(47:59):
trouble and they've been nicecattle.
I wanted to come back to.
The Vince question about 25%,30%.
I really wish there were enoughfolks or more folks out there
that were content with using SISthat fell in those percentiles,
because I think, I don't selectfor dollar beef.
It's not my jam, but I thinkthat there's so much opportunity

(48:24):
for genuine beef cattleimprovement in the top 30%, and
you really, really limityourself when you're chasing the
1% of the cires that you can useand what those cattle will do to
your herd.
You know, I get on my soapboxall the time, but Angus just
came out with a report that Ican ran across the other day
talking about the percent prime,and really amazing what we've

(48:44):
done to the carcass endpointsand terminal characteristics of
cattle in the commercialmarketplace.
I see these bulls showing upwith a two and a half, 2.8 on
marbling EPD, what cattle are wetrying to change?
That's what I wanna know.
What are you breeding them tothat needs this drastic change?
Or are we just trying to kill'emearlier?
Kill'em earlier.

(49:05):
We need to harvest cattleearlier.
Well, what's too early?
Three days old Corbin.
Two days old, one day old, 180.
I don't know.
I, I don't know.
But what I'm saying is, is Ithink that we, I, I would like
to find who the producers arethat are just kind of steadfast.
You can watch their traits.
Um, I sent this to another chatgroup.

(49:26):
I have a great part aboutmaternal, uh, plus and hoard
reporting is you guys can getthese, these graphs that show
your genetic trend compared toothers.
And a lot of our genetic trendstays pretty stable at Bruin.
It's kind of right middle of theroad.
Little bit of improvement,shaving off a little bit of
mature weight, adding a littlebit of performance, improving

(49:50):
the footy PD just a little bit.
But we don't, and if you followwhat the breed has done though,
breed average.
You can see, people can saywhatever they want.
It's been straight up, straightup.
Selection on dollar maternal,straight up selection on dollar
beef.
And I think that the frustrationfrom purebred producers
standpoint is those indexes werecreated.
I don't know if, is it indexesor indices?

(50:12):
I think it's indexes, buttechnically it should be
indices.
Vince, you're

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:15):
Let's talk about indexes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:17):
we should probably ask Vince that

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:19):
How about you just say indexes?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (50:21):
Okay.
Indexes I

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (50:23):
Would, would it be index?
I,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (50:26):
with two I and a till day over the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:29):
come on.
Come on.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (50:31):
Vince doesn't know what a till day is.
I don't think

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:33):
I don't,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (50:34):
north.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:35):
I care, nor do I care,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (50:35):
Vince probably, Vince invented the

joe_1_03-16-2025_17273 (50:37):
Invented the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (50:38):
do I care.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (50:39):
No, but I just, I just think about like.
What cattle are we trying tochange and what can we do
consistently?
And then what value we providein our customers.
And I would love to findsomebody who's just like, this
is a type that works here.
This is a sustainable productionmodel, and these are the cows
that have lasted here thelongest.
And then commercial guys can usethe indexes for their use to

(51:03):
simplify selection, butindividual traits, that's kinda
where purebred guys should befocused, I think.
And the traits that kind of fitthem for improvement.
I mean, you guys have a thoughton that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (51:15):
Well, I mean, should we not just,
okay.
Does she breed?
Yes.
Does she cause you problems?
No.
Do you have to nurse down a Tetbecause it's too big?
No.
Are her feet perfect?
They're not perfect, but I don'thave to trim'em.
They're not problems.
No.
Does, can she raise a big calf?
Yes.

(51:37):
What's wrong with thosefundamental things?
Instead of what that piece ofpaper says?
Because how many times does thepiece of paper match and how
many times does it not match?
And I mean this, this wholedeal, somebody had a pretty good

(51:57):
analogy about, um, like thegenomics deal.
It's only like, what is it?
60, 70% accurate?
It's not a hundred percentaccurate.
Is it 50% accurate?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:09):
not even that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:10):
The, the ana?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (52:11):
when you do, when you do a year limb
bull, if you have the phenotypesof birth weight and you pull
blood, you're only getting likea 38, maybe a 42,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:19):
So,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (52:20):
Corbin, maybe

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (52:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:22):
the, the whole point of the analogy
was, let's just say it is 70%,which I think it's far from 70%,
I think it's more 70%inaccurate.
Would you jump out of a planeusing a parachute and your odds
were the 70% that it's gonnaopen and 30% that it's not?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (52:42):
That's a good point.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:43):
I, I'm not, so why would you base
all of your breeding decisionsand all of your cow herd off of
that?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (52:51):
You know what I'd prefer, Vince,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (52:53):
What

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (52:53):
the maker of the parachute said, you
know what, I'm a father of threeand you're gonna watch me jump
outta that plane and I'm gonnause that parachute

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (53:01):
I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (53:02):
And that's how I appreciate breeding
programs.
I appreciate breeding programsthat accurately describe their
cattle.
And

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (53:09):
Yep,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (53:09):
heard Tale of a Commercial Sale that
happened not long ago, and afriend of mine said I had a
customer arguing with me aboutbirth weight.
He said he turned in the bloodbirth weight, came back kinda
low on a sire that didn't reallyfit and he did not declare,
declare that bull of heiferbull.
And the customer said, I've readall the articles I know about
genomics.
This is a heifer bull.
He goes, well, Pfizer isn'tgoing to write you a check back

(53:32):
if you gotta pull calves, I'mgonna be the one that has to
write the check

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (53:35):
that's exactly right.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (53:37):
And I, that's a part that's become a
little frustrating for me.
And I've actually usedfootnotes.
You guys could have seen thatlast year where I wasn't trying
to snipe at anybody or, but Ispelled it out in the footnotes.
Genomic says, this animal isthis, but if you want to try it,
that's at your risk.
I and the reason I genomic isbecause I wanted to DNA parent

(53:59):
verify because we turned outenough cleanup sire.
And I was like, okay, want toknow for sure that we have the
parentage, right?
Because I'd rather have Bull Xbreed heifers than bull y, for
example.
And if there was a mix up, therecould be a really big problem
for our customers.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (54:16):
But do we have, go ahead, Corbin.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (54:18):
I think at the end of the day too,
no matter what stance we have onthe, on the accuracy of the
EPDs, once you pull blood andthe, and the DNA and at the end
of, at the end of the day, we'reall, all want it to be better.
So I, I don't think it's one ofthose things we should abandon.
I don't think we need to stopdoing it.
I think we need to tempert ourexpectations as with anything.

(54:42):
Um, you know, use it as a tool,but don't, I mean, if I'm being
honest with you, whenever I goselect a user, whenever I put my
sale book together, uh, wheneverI make the sale order, the EPDs
are the last piece of thepuzzle.
If one off the page EPD wise andhe sucks, he's not gonna lead

(55:04):
off my sale.
I'm sorry.
That's just the way it is.
That's the way it should be.
But, um, I think theexpectations need, need to be
tempered.
I, I think we need to utilizethe tool because at some point
it could become more accuratethan it is.
And, and the only way for it todo that is for, for us to keep
churning away at the damn data.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (55:26):
So do we need to be just keep using
extreme low birth weights to besafe for our customers?
I mean, because

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (55:35):
that up because I actually think, um, I
wish we could just describe thecattle accurately and just have
actual production, um, be kindof the focal point.
Again,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (55:46):
yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (55:47):
horse is out the barn and down the
alley.
We ain't going back to that.
We've got 23 traits and we'vegot eight indexes, as you say,
Vince, um.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (55:57):
In to

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (55:57):
Uh, but I do think that even the people
who are the most, don't wannasay pro EPD or anti a PD, but
the people who lean on them themost in their breeding programs
would even say that we probablyswung this pendulum too far to
that side.
You know, I, I do think Angushas even come out and said, we
need more phenotypes, we needmore actual data.

(56:19):
I would like to see some hardactual benefits to producing
actual data because really I seemulti-generations of just
pulling blood and getting theEPDs and it seems like in the
marketplace they're rewarded.
And, and so I guess if I had asolution, I've said this for a
long time, it would befinancially incentivizing data

(56:43):
submission, quality

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (56:45):
You mean they do that?
They do that.
They, they charge you for it.
Every time you turn it in,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (56:52):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (56:53):
that's your reward.
I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (56:55):
your reward is you get to pay.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (56:57):
I did see in the president's notes of
the last meeting, they'relooking for a new, what are they
calling it?
A designation.
So there'll be a, you know, girlScout badge basically on your
pedigrees if you've submitteddata, which I don't, I just wish
we'd just get some money back.
I don't, I don't know why wehave to keep spending so much
money for so many things.
I just wanna be able to sellbulls and do a good job

(57:19):
guaranteeing them for people andhave those cattle have reliable
and realistic tools.
And I want our commercialcattlemen to stop being in
Innovat or like inundated withtools that they could wield kind
of dangerously.
I mean, that producer who wasarguing with another producer
about Cies, when that producerknows the mix of jeans, that's
dangerous at that point, in myopinion, because they think

(57:43):
they're getting one thing andthey're gonna get something
else.
And just, um, I wish it was alittle simpler.
I wanna shift gears though, ifyou guys are okay with that.
Um.
Are there some EPDs for you guysthat are, that you do look at
when you source a new sire?
Are there some that you go, thisis a red flag one, this one
isn't, or you straight up typeperiod?

(58:04):
That's it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:05):
I mean, I look at the, I look at
the, uh, birth wing andyearling, scrotal as my primary
stuff.
The, um, like marbling and, andrib eye would be secondary.
They would not be important forme.
The, the only reason I look atany of the stuff is just to try

(58:30):
not to.
Wake up one day, wake and be soin the hole.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (58:36):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (58:37):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:38):
know, to trying to keep it balanced
and kind of keep it coming aswe're going, you know?
Um, I don't, I don't use any ofthe dollar figure stuff.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:47):
For

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:47):
I then,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:49):
For me, there's thresholds to
everything.
I, I think, um, I'm not gonnause a bull that's, that's a 30
on weaning and a 55 on, onyearling.
I mean, I,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (58:58):
right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (58:58):
that that's, setting you too far
behind.
Um, in a lot of ways on thebirth weight stuff, I'm not
scared of birth.
I, I, I think the way, the waythe DNA's working right now,
it's so skewed to where we canget to a negative 12 CED so
easily.
And I think we've gotta, gottaquit being scared of that, um,

(59:21):
because it's, don't know, it's,it's, it's, maybe it's
uncomfortable, but I think we'regonna have to realize that these
cows can lay down and have acalf.
And so I, I've, I've noticed alittle bit of a shift where
people are not as afraid ofbirth weight at this point.
Um, maybe it's just myobservation, maybe it's not
real.
um, from my observation, I feellike people are starting to, I.

(59:44):
Operate in that way.
Where, where it's just like theyhave certain thresholds of
growth and, and, and they lookat the numbers, but they use'em
as a tool.
And maybe I've just kind ofgroomed my customers that way,
but I feel like they're usingthe EPDs as a tool and there's a
lot of those guys that don'thave a dang clue what any of'em
mean anyways.
And there's,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:00:00):
Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:00:01):
25 of'em on the page.
Um, so you get to write yoursale book and you get to put the
ones in there that you feel areaccurate, uh, or that are useful
tools.
And so I try to highlight theones that, that I think a person
should look at.
Um, but if somebody comes andasks me about an animal, that's
the last thing I'm gonna bringup is that animal's EPDs.
Because the chances are Iprobably know more about that

(01:00:23):
animal than the EPDs.
No.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:00:24):
What weight of a calf do you think a
heifer should be able to have?
I.
Do you think it's 50 pounds?
You think it's 70 pounds?
I mean.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:00:35):
for me, if a, I'll start, if a heifer
can't have seven and a halfpercent of her body weight, I
don't want her, I don't push'emto that.
if they can't have that, I, Idon't, I don't need to have that
around.
I mean, when it comes time fortheir second calf after they've
weaned the first, and I'm notasking them to have a 1200 pound
heifer, that's a 94.

(01:00:58):
That's.
It's a 95 pound calf, right?
might be a little bit off, maybeI'm saying it.
Seven on a heifer, 7% on aheifer.
So 94 pound calf.
That's a big calf.
I don't ask her to do that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:01:10):
you want.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:01:11):
Nope.
Not what I want, not what I'mshooting for, but if I have to
go jerk one out, I mean, I'mgonna look that as a red flag
and I'm gonna move her out ofour population because when it
comes time for her second calf,it's time to rock and roll boys.
I mean, she's gotta have a bigstout calf and she's gotta wean
it off and she's gotta do itwithout any help from anybody.
so, I mean, I, I think a lot ofthose cattle can do it too.

(01:01:33):
I just think there's a lot offolks that are so fearful about
what could be, what could beWhat if we, well what if you had
to pull a calf out of a hundredheifers?
You were Calvin.
if you had to pull two calvesout of a hundred?
You were Calvin.
Would it be worth it to not havethese little 50 pound or chicken
bone ones running around.
If they get sick, they die.

(01:01:53):
I mean, it's ca

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:01:53):
if

joe_1_03-16-2025_17273 (01:01:54):
heifers.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:01:55):
What if you have 150 pound calves and
seven of'em die because they'reweak and fine boned and never
worth a crap?
What about the payday at the endof this, at the end of it,
whenever you sell those calves.
And you've got a bunch of'emthat are 50 pounds at birth and
then they're a hundred poundsbehind it at weaning you go to
sell'em.
Uh, the last I checked, uh, some500 pounders, we're bringing$4 a

(01:02:19):
pound.
If we're a hundred, uh, ahundred pounds off, a hundred
times four,$400.
You can afford to lose a fewcalves and still make quite a
bit of money if you're calvingout a hundred heifers.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02:31):
A 50 pound calf will never catch an
80 pound calf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02:34):
no.
And that number's not gonna stayat 30, either

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:02:38):
No, and and there's a threshold.
I mean, we're not saying thatheifers need to have 160 pound
calves either.
I mean, I don't want

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02:45):
No,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:02:45):
be critical of that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02:47):
for that matter,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:02:48):
but.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:02:48):
no.
But we've gotta have some cowmansense and I just think so many
folks I.
I think it's become lazymarketing guys.
I honestly think it's becomelazy marketing.
Don't pull a calf.
And then you know what?
When that bull gets too big,he's got enough growth spread.
Just turn him right out withyour cows and use that heifer
bull on cows.
Well, I've taken the otherapproach where I'm like, man,

(01:03:09):
starve the heck.
I starve.
Relative term, keep thin yourheifer bulls and hopefully you
could use them for three years.
Buy one that's a little bit moremoderate.
You know, maybe it keeps the topend of some of those heifers,
but try to keep most of yourheifers.
This is me talking to commercialguys.
Keep most of your heifers outtayour cow herd and use cow bulls
on your cows.
And um, that's the way it usedto always be.

(01:03:32):
And I think there's a lot ofpeople, I think it's the
generation generally that'solder than our generation who's
talking right here, who doremember cutting out calves out
of continental influenced cowsand having some real issues, and
they have those demons andthey're like, boy, I don't ever
want to go back to that.
And so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:03:52):
I don't want to have problems.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:03:54):
a alive calf's worth more than no calf
at all.
Well, we don't need to go tothat crazy spot either.
We need to be somewhere in thecenter Center and we need to be
thoughtful about it.
And what do you think's a, areasonable heifer birth weight.
Vince, asked.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:04:09):
Well, I mean, my heifers have 75 to 85
pound calves all the time.
I've had'em have 95 pound calvesunassisted.
Um, the thing about it is, ifyou have, let's just say that
you start the ball this year andyou have a 60 pound calf and
it's a heifer and you retain it,what are you gonna breed it to?

(01:04:33):
You're gonna breed it.
You're gonna, you're just gonnakeep dropping that birth weight
and you're gonna keep increasingthat cese and then three
generations of retaining thatheifer and breeding it to heifer
bulls.
Her pelvic area is gonna be solittle, she won't even be,
you'll be pulling a 50 poundcalf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (01:04:52):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So that already p we've alreadypoked every hole you can poke in
in, in the thought process thatsays a heifer bull and turn'em
out on your cows.
'cause

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:05:03):
It's,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:05:05):
that are just so scared of birth
weight that they'll go buy aheifer bull and they'll use in
one year on heifers and thenthat he'll be on cows that next
year because they enjoy nothaving to work, not having to
think about it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:05:14):
that's right.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:05:15):
But we shouldn't share that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:05:17):
down the road.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:05:19):
don't know if you should share that
secret sauce, Corbin, becauseyou said your customers have a
appetite for some bulls withsome birth weight.
Now ours do too.
Because when we finally gave itto'em and they tried it, they
went.
Oh my God.
That's what a real calf lookslike.
Oh, she could have that.
Oh my goodness.
And, and it wasn't like theywere having 300 pound baby
elephants.
They were just having a realcalf again, and they weren't

(01:05:41):
using their heifer bulls ontheir cows.
And maybe they ran into'em.
I think my customers probablystarted because the type of the
bulls, they saw the differentpen and they went, oh my
goodness, I want something thatlooks like that.
And then as some, some of thembought'em because they were
discounted.
They were discounted becausetheir birth weight, EPD, and now
we've switched that around.
I'm not gonna say a six on birthis worth more at our place, but

(01:06:05):
bulls that are rugged, bullsthat have some shape and some
mass to'em, and some get up andgo and have some birth weight.
They actually bring a premium atour outfit now.
But our customers have seen thevalue of that.
They've seen how those cattleend up being, have you guys ever
noticed that?
A lot of times the best calvesat birth are the best calves at
weaning that are the best calvesat yearling, that are the best

(01:06:27):
cows.
You calve.
I mean, it just kind of, I feellike it just follows'em.
Am am, am I the only one thatsees that or you guys see that
too?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:06:34):
Oh yeah, absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:06:36):
Are there's, are there some guys
around y'all?
Have you ever heard, heard theseguys that they don't, they don't
necessarily take care of theircattle.
I'm not saying they abuse'em oranything like that, but they're,
oh, my heifers are getting readyto calve here in a month.
I'm gonna bring'em up and startfeeding them some.
Do you know those guys?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:06:56):
Yep.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:06:56):
Around here.
People do it all the time.
I don't know about out there.
Well, when does the calf gainmost of its weight?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:07:03):
Oh, exactly.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:07:04):
days.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:07:05):
So all they're doing is making the
calf bigger.
They're not truly helping themother.
If they wanted to do that, theyshould have helped the mother in
the beginning and then just puther on some hay the last
trimester and let the calf bethe normal size It should be.
But they're, they're making abigger calf.

(01:07:26):
E Well, that was supposed to bea low birth weight bull.
Well, maybe it was gonna be,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192 (01:07:32):
Another problem that we have is that
we're breeding these cattle justas young as we can breed them.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:07:39):
yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:07:39):
we're trying to make'em calve at the
age of two, which I'm not sayingI don't wanna do that.
I wanna push the envelope, uh, Iwant to get'em on the ground and
get'em weaned and, and, and move'em as quick as we can.
But that is a byproduct of doingthat, is that a lot of these
heifers haven't reachedmaturity.
And so when they lay down tohave a calf, they don't open up
quite as much.
And so it's just part of theanimal that you're, it's just

(01:08:01):
part of it.
It's just part of the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192 (01:08:03):
Correct.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:08:03):
we're playing by, by pushing the
envelope.
but anyways, do you guys wannago into this other question or
do you wanna, or do you think wehave time or,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:08:14):
Well, you know what I love about
around the shoot Corbin.
I love that we started talkingabout EPDs and then we talked
about heifer management andstuff.
This is like a conversationwould happen around the shoot.
I wanted to add real quickbefore you do that back to
Vince.
Um, I worked for a commercialoutfit when I was younger that.
At the last trimester ofpregnancy, we pulled the protein

(01:08:34):
tubs away from those cattle'cause they were kept on dry
feed that was dormant, theprotein tubs, pulled mineral,
kept salt in front of'em,obviously water and plenty of
feed.
But it was about getting thosecattle, a little thriftier,
making'em walk a little farther,making them range more, making
sure they didn't get too muchinternal fat with them and
stuff, Those heifers didn't haveassistance very often.

(01:08:57):
It was super rare, and I thinkwhen people started paying more
money for bulls started gettingmore money for calves, they
started really worried aboutmanagement and worried about
getting'em bread.
You gotta get on top of thoseheifers early.
How many people have told youthat, Vince, where it's like
they start slipping, you'llnever get'em back?
Well, that's true, but westarted feeding them and making
that calf just grow and the calfcomes out with four inches of

(01:09:19):
hair and shag and it's like youmight have just caused yourself
a major problem.
I've heard people say the calfdoubles in the last trimester.
I've had people say triples I, Idon't know what it does, but we
all know that it's largestamount of growth is every day
right before it gets delivered.
Right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:09:35):
I know for a fact on a woman, the
last four or five weeks, thatbaby grows a pound a week and
they're only having

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:09:43):
Wow.

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (01:09:44):
extrapolate that out over a calf.
You know,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:09:48):
Uh, does the, I lost my train of
thought when Corbin said thatwoman's gonna have a calf,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:09:57):
That's the truth of why he's in St.
Joe.
He is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:09:59):
uh, telling you,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:01):
He is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:01):
I'm telling you

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:02):
house.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:03):
that woman's gonna have a calf.
No.
God, what was I gonna say?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_ (01:10:08):
Something.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:09):
don't know.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:09):
What was the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:10):
it wasn't,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:10:10):
good.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:11):
Corbin, you had another

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:12):
no,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:12):
We were talking about EPDs two that you
look at.
Do you have anything to addthere before we move on?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:19):
no,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:20):
That wasn't it, Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:21):
no.
It was about heifers and I don'tremember.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:10:24):
Well, the other, the other.
Scenario I had was, was actuallyties into EPDs, kind of.
And so that's why I thought itwould be pertinent.
Um, but a blind, it's blindsquirrel.
If you've seen so many bad onesout of a cow or sire, if you
find a good one, are thegenetics there or is it a freak?
Or are you just gonna have atrain wreck just in a more
attractive package?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:10:45):
This is gonna be hard.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:47):
So what's the best way to tackle
this?
Let's, let's say we've got aflush of 10 brothers.
Let's say you've got a flush of10

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:10:53):
Yeah,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19 (01:10:54):
There's, there's nine of them that are,
or let's say there's six of themthat are pus, two of them are
okay, one's really good, andthen one's just fan freaking
fantastic.
Phenomenal.
But at the end of the day, whatcan you predict is gonna happen
with the progeny of thatphenomenal one?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:11:15):
so 60% of it says they're gonna be
pukes.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:11:19):
Yeah.
I think, I think this is just adirect correlation to, to
playing the genomic Don't

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:11:27):
don't know.
Are you talking about on EPDsor.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:11:32):
I'm

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (01:11:32):
Visual.
Visual.
Yeah.
Visual phenotype.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:11:36):
well, and I wonder if that one freak,
that one freak might be.
What's a freak?
Is it?
And, and I think that's why EPDstarted, Corbin actually was to
pull environment out of it andsay, well, that type freak that
you're looking at, the rest arepues.
Does he have the ability to passthat on or doesn't he?
And chances are all of thosewill breed to the average.

(01:11:57):
But the one who might have themost genetic breeding value
might be the SST one of the lot.
And the one who has theexpression genes might be the
other one.
so I think that points to thephilosophy.
of how we breed cattle and thepredictability.
And I'm not saying I'm perfectat it.
I don't want anybody to say thatI'm preachy or, or anything.

(01:12:18):
But I do think that we owe it toour customers to try to produce
predictability in the cattle,especially if we're selling to
commercial cattlemen.
And you can't do that with fireon ice, on fire and ice, on fire
and ice matings because there'sjust too much variation between
them.
um, again, like I said, I'm notperfect at it either, but I do

(01:12:38):
think breeding like types tolike types is, is a lot more
predictive than the actual EPD,I shouldn't say predictive, I
should say it should, it bearsmore fruit of what you're trying
to do, um, unless you're justtrying to sell EPDs.
So that's the question.
Are you selling EPDs or are youselling livestock?
I'm selling livestock that havea set of EPDs that go with them

(01:13:02):
as predictive tools and um, Ithink that.
away the paper.
The ones I sell, I still thinkmeet the expectations that
they're sold under.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:13:14):
If you take the genomic test and
figure that in and say thegenomic test says that one of
those six pues is gonna be thebest one, and then.
That, that's where I see theissue is people are not looking
at'em.
They're going off of what?
That piece of a genomic test.
We can wholeheartedly believe itbecause it's 32% accurate.

(01:13:39):
But they're not looking andthey're, they're saying, well,
he don't look like much, but theEPDs say that he's gonna be the
man, so we're gonna use him.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:13:50):
Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:13:51):
not only that, but the bull studs
are running right out there andsigning them up and selling
semen on because they knowpeople will buy the semen.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:13:57):
with the right amount of feed, they
could make anything look decent.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:14:01):
Yep.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:14:02):
Um, You said Joe, a couple times,
you said predictive.
Uh, and I think that's a good,term for, for what we're talking
about here is, is how can wepredict that the outcome is
gonna be positive?
And I think if we're talkingabout this little scenario of 10
bulls.
Um, I think being, to be able topredict what those Ted Bulls are

(01:14:25):
gonna be, starts well beforethose 10 bulls are born, well,
well before they're weaned, wellbefore those eggs are made.
If you the right cow to makethose bulls, then you have a
better chance of success.
I think a lot of times we'reflushing cows that don't need to
be flushed.
Um, and if we're talking abouta, a, just an AI sire or, or a

(01:14:46):
bull turnout sire, um, so muchvariance within 10 different
cows within a sire group.
I don't think ten's enough toeven make a prediction.
Do y'all?
I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:14:56):
I probably not.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:14:58):
It depends.
It depends on how they're bred.
You know, it's like, I willguarantee you one thing, if you
go and look at cattle and youfind a, a bull that you like,
and you find his mother and shehas bad feet, I don't care what
the EPDs say, there's a reallyhigh likelihood that her
daughters will also have badfeet.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (01:15:17):
That's

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:15:18):
seen it, I've experienced it, and I'm
just using bad feet as anexample.
Like that could be any of theEPD traits.
Um, you know, they, well.
I guess any of the phenotypetraits.
I said that backwards.
Um, if you want to have a cowlook a certain way, the best
thing you could do is go findthe bull's mother and see if she
looks that way, because they'regonna do that with a high

(01:15:40):
likelihood, I believe.
And, and feet was probably a badexample.
I saw Vince shaking his headbecause feet is one of the
weirdest, doggone traits we'veever seen.
I mean, um, and how much thatchanges and how much it's
environmentally influenced.
And it's really, really too badthat that particular EPD.
Uh, I think it had some realopportunity.

(01:16:02):
Um, I think that there's stillopportunity in spots.
I've seen differences on flushesof cattle here I have, then I'm
also seeing some outlierdifferences amongst the breed
that just don't make sense.
And I don't know that we'rechanging cattle that much when I
go out in the countryside.
If you look at how much EPDimprovement we've had, did you

(01:16:22):
see that?
Uh, remember a 0.50 used to bebreed average or something, and
anything a below that was animprover?
think that, well,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:16:32):
five.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:16:32):
yeah.
Yeah, I think like a 0.48 orsomething.
Cor, if you're a 0.48, you're inthe bottom percentile.
You're in the bottom half of thebreed for that particular foot
trait.
And I said, are we reallycomfortable with saying breed
average Angus would be betterfoot?
I, I don't, I don't feel thatway when I go out in the
countryside.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:16:53):
Let, let me throw this scenario at
you.
There's a guy here that gives ahundred to say$200,000 for a
cow.
Her feet, her calves, feet,terrible.
Genomic says her calves feet arein the top 5% of the breed.
Do you turn in actual data oryou just go buy what the

(01:17:17):
genomics say?
That guy's not gonna turn actualdata in on a$200,000 cow's calf
because he's gonna try to gethis money back.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_1927 (01:17:27):
Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:17:28):
Am I wrong?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:17:30):
No,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:17:31):
I mean, some people might, but I,
the people that I know in thisbreed that spend that kind of
money, they're not gonna be thathonest.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:17:39):
Yeah, it's good to cash those checks.
We all have to run businessesand we all have to make payments
on things, but.
I've

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:17:47):
You just,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:17:47):
that some of the super, super high
value cattle manifest a lot ofthe problems in the breed
because you automatically havethat bias to their breeding
value.
Um,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:17:57):
have you ever seen a cow that the a
calf or a cow that the EPD saysit's got terrible feet and it
has really nice feet

joe_1_03-16-2025_17 (01:18:07):
absolutely.

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (01:18:08):
Absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:09):
say it ain't so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:10):
All the

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:11):
it ain't so.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:11):
I will say something else that I
notice is there is, it's crazyto me how many bulls there are
that are in the top 1% for, fora given trait like that top 1%
is, there's more than more than1% of'em.
I feel like.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:28):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:30):
How can there be so many bulls that
are in the top 1% for feet

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:18:35):
I think the best thing

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:36):
then works the opposite way too.
How can there be,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:18:39):
I.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:18:39):
How come there's so many negative 10
CE, d bulls?
How are they in the 95thpercentile if they're so dadgum?
Many of'em.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:18:47):
Yeah, I don't know about that.
I, I do know that the, the footone is an interesting
discussion.
It absolutely, all theseselective traits are because
the, the, how the data'ssubmitted, who's submitting it.
Um, you'd like to think that,and, and that's always built
into the premise.
When you hear someone talk, theysay, most people do the right

(01:19:07):
thing.
I'm like, well, I don't know.
We might have to amend thatstatement and say, all people
have bills to pay.
And that ends up becoming thefirst decision.
then I try to find the peoplewho will lop the head off of
that$200,000 donor with badfeet.
Vince?
Um, I think they're pretty rareto find.

(01:19:28):
I think they're really, reallyrare to find.
I actually think because I knowyou, uh, you have a really,
really high valued cow, and Iactually do believe that if you
had something found in her thatyou thought was going to harm
someone, I do think Ben Santiniwould've shipped her.
do believe that.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:19:46):
I've done it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:19:47):
yeah, I believe it.
And.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:19:49):
wanna know what, uh, what I think one
of the solutions to theseproblems with EPDs is it has to
be talking to each other andjust being candid.
the more candid we are with eachother, the better we can do to,
to improve on some of thesetraits.
And maybe the EPDs will will getbetter and they can be more
trusted later.
But right now we just have torely on each other a lot too.

(01:20:12):
Um, I think it's important to,reach out to your.
So you're, you know, we're allin this together, so I think
it's important to talk to eachother and if, uh, if you're
seeing something, bring it tolight to your buddies and, and
talk about it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:20:25):
So I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:26):
you ever asked,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:20:27):
I had

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:27):
go ahead.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:20:28):
I had a section here that said we should
talk about solutions'cause it'seasy to find all these problems.
Who's gonna have a solution?
I think that's a good solution.
Corbin, what were you gonna say,Vince?

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:37):
I was gonna say, have you ever had,
um, somebody at a sale lookingor, or talking to you about a
bull or whatever?
Did you see his feet?
Well, ZPD say

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:20:49):
Yeah.
Well,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:51):
got good feet.
How do you know?
Did you see him?
No.
His EPD say they're good.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:54):
no, he is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:55):
Now

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:55):
foot straw.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:20:56):
your network 100% your network, and
it has to be people you cantrust.
And how many times does yournetwork revolve because you let
somebody in your circle that youthought you could trust?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:21:09):
Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:21:10):
Then you figure it out later that you
can't, so that evolves.
You kick him out, maybe youbring somebody else in.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:21:19):
I think there's two ways that people
are, well, maybe more than two,but two of the ways that I think
about with describing cattle isthat a lot of people really do
care about people's feelings andthey don't wanna say, well, I
saw this, and you know, youraise them or whatever, and be
honest.
So that's always hard.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:21:40):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:21:40):
tell you what's harder.
What's harder is knowing about aproblem and then telling
somebody about it five yearslater after they dove headlong
into it.
And then you gotta say, yeah, Ikind of knew that was an issue
all along.
And then I honestly think thatthere's another camp and the
other camp that's not accuratelydescribing cattle just aren't
accurately describing cattle andthey really don't care about you
kick those ones outta yournetwork.

(01:22:01):
I mean, kick'em out quickly andrun away from their prefixes
whenever you see it, because Imean, they're just telling you
what their cattle are gonna doby their actions.
um, I'll tell you guys though,that was the best part about
podcast platform and thisinformation, what's Rogan call
it?
Uh, information Marketplace orsomething that's out there, I
think is what he calls it, isit's exposed me to a lot of

(01:22:24):
cool, cool people.
And,

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (01:22:27):
absolutely.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:22:28):
and I will tell you, I think that.
We need to, when you talk aboutprescriptions or solutions,
we've got to empower people tobe proud of their cattle despite
their EPD profile.
If

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:22:41):
Yes,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:22:42):
you say they will do and you're proud
and, and, and you know you cantrust what they'll do in the
wild, be damned, EPDs be

vince_1_03-16-2025_ (01:22:52):
absolutely.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:22:53):
Corbin said something about 70 minutes
ago, right when we started and Iwrote it down where he goes, now
am I gonna use a 35 weaning anda 55 yearling weight?
I actually, Corbin goes, I'mprobably not gonna go that far.
I disagree with you because Iknow you.
If you knew that those daughterswould last without a hitch until
they're 10 years old and notcause you a problem and they

(01:23:14):
would produce the kind of bullsyou raised, I think you would
use him and I would too.
The problem lies in the cattlethat are really, really hard to
market numbered they end up.
Not being as good as anythingthat's better numbered.
I mean, and

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:23:31):
Yeah.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:23:32):
out there.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:23:33):
Yeah, that's a problem.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:23:34):
And I've taken this step back.
I've taken a step back severaltimes.
I'm sorry we keep stepping oneach other'cause we're off.
But like I've used cattle that Itook the step backwards on quote
EPD marketability several timesand they weren't as good as some
of the highly touted, bignumbered cattle that sucked.
And, and I know that that coingoes both ways.
I'm not

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:23:53):
Yes.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:23:54):
it, I'm not saying it doesn't, but I
think that the prescription isget more relationships, meet
more people.
Um, the harder people marketthe, the, it seems like any
more, the less I want to see'em.
Um, I wanna find these people inthe middle of nowhere who are,
know, you didn't even talkCorbin about spending time with
David Cray.
Most people don't even know whoDavid CRE is, or a lot of people

(01:24:16):
didn't for a long time.
And he really doesn't care ifyou know who he is.
He's just, I.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:21):
why, that's why I didn't bring it up.
'cause David doesn't wanna be,he doesn't wanna be on, he
doesn't want us to talk abouthim.
You

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:24:27):
No, he, he's gonna be I,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:28):
he's doing.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:24:29):
gonna send me a text as soon as this
comes out and he's gonna be allpissed off about it and I'm
gonna have to give him a freehoodie over it.
But the dude just wants to makegood cattle.
That's

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:39):
Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:24:40):
Wants to raise his family.
He wants to keep the familyranch and he wants to raise good
cattle.
tell you what, you find peoplelike that, put'em in your circle
keep'em there.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:50):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025 (01:24:51):
Absolutely.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:52):
Did you ever,

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:24:54):
Go ahead.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:24:54):
did you ever watch when you were
young, Joe, did you ever watchGI Joe?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:24:59):
No, I did not.
I had a GI Joe

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:25:01):
I.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:25:02):
though, because there's this guy.
Named, uh, I can't remember hisname now, but I was at a
preschool and I was little and Iused to throw him alley.
Oops.
And this kid could dunk, right?
He's like the tall 16-year-old.
And he was, was my little buddyor my big buddy.
And he actually had to go to thearmy to pay for college.
And he, uh, mailed me a letter.
Uh, I still have it at my mom'sdad's house.

(01:25:23):
Uh, and he included some littleGI Joe's, but that's the only GI
Joe exposure I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:25:27):
the only person that would have that
story, I swear.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:25:30):
Vince brought that up?
Because little known fact GIJoes use EPDs.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:25:35):
No, no.
But when I, when I was a younglittle lad and I watched gi I,
Joe, at the end, they always hada, a little thing to teach you
and, and the thing was, now, youknow, and knowing is half the
battle.
Is that not so true in our life?
This whole thing that we justtalked about, EPDs knowing is

(01:25:59):
half the battle.
Knowing that it may not be asaccurate as they claim.
Knowing that your heifers canhave a heavier calf knowing all
this crap that we just talkedabout, that's half the battle.
The other half is implementingit.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:26:16):
we had posters at school that said
Knowledge is power.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19 (01:26:19):
Knowledge is power.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:26:21):
is power.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:26:22):
So that brings me to my next
prescription or solution thatI've been on this soapbox and
people disagree with me.
More access to actual data, moreaccess.
I wanna shine more light becauseit is

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:26:36):
Yep.

joe_1_03-16-2025_1727 (01:26:37):
sanitizer give.
Give me the opportunity if wedon't wanna put it on the Angus
website.
If I go into my own login, if Ican go in and I can look at how,
yeah, and I know, I know thatthere's performance pedigrees,
but there's not enoughinformation on those.
We should be able to see.
And if, if I'm shallow enough tosay, well, that cow missed a
calf and I'm, I, everything elseis perfect, and, and I'm not

(01:27:00):
gonna call that guy, well thenshame on me.
But I'll pick up the phone ifthey still have him in
production, and I'll say, Hey,Vince Santini, uh, what happened
here?
And, and allow, allow thatbreeder to provide that context
because they might say, well,actually she had a steer because
he got, uh, e coli and so wejust shipped him and we never
turned in the data, but she hasnever missed.

(01:27:21):
Um, or maybe there's somethingelse happened, I don't know.
But more access to those realphenotypes I think would be a
wonderful thing for this breed.
And I'm actually shocked that inthe year 2025, we've devolved to
a place where we're expectingbreeders to just look at an EPD.
I mean, that, that, that blowsmy mind.

(01:27:42):
And, and I guess I could callevery one of these breeders and
say, send me his actual data andYeah.
And all those things, but.
I just wish we could find thatinformation easily at our
fingertips.
Just poke around on it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:27:55):
I have a million I dollar idea
that if I don't say it rightnow, I'll forget about it.
But I've, I had this idea, itwas yesterday or day before.
I don't remember who even I wastalking to about it.
We have these interactive salebooks on the Angus website.
Right.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:28:12):
Yeah.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19 (01:28:12):
actually think I was talking to David
Craig about it.
How awesome would it be if youopened that sail book online and
instead of there being a glitz?
'cause'cause we're all attractedto that glitzy glamor picture
where that bull looks awesome.

vince_1_03-16-2025_1927 (01:28:23):
Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:28:24):
if we open that sail book, that
interactive sail book online,and instead of that picture,
there was a video of that bulland it was just a kick ass
video.
And that video comes on right asyou look.
And so there's lot one, andthere's this video.
And then, um, you flip the lottwo, the next page, and maybe
lot five is the one that's, youknow, you could have pictures
too.
Maybe Lot three has a picture,lot five.
Here's a really cool video thatwould be freaking awesome and we

(01:28:47):
should make that happen.
don't know who I need to call tomake that happen, but it would
be awesome.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:28:51):
Maybe some of us are already making it
happen.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:28:55):
Ooh.
Ooh, that's exciting to me.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:28:59):
No, I think,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:29:00):
it happen and then let me know how
it goes and

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:29:02):
I think there's gonna be all the, the
about the interactive space.
This is, this is totally aroundthe shoot'cause we left turn
again catalogs and what theywere five, eight years ago and
then what they are now and howyou into'em.
Like the QR code thing that Ihad in my YouTube channel that
interfaces with it and our ranchvideos and all that.

(01:29:23):
How social media is linkedthrough.
Uh, it's my goal to make my salebook a multimedia experience
where people can learn about ourprogram.
And I mean, I just wanna.
it's not that I want to do abetter job of selling our
product, I wanna be very clearwith that.
I wanna do a better jobconnecting with our potential

(01:29:45):
customers so the right peopleare buying the right animals.
that does not mean, you know,that also means the people who
shouldn't be buying ourlivestock.
Those are the people who just bedisappointed by, by using them.
I don't, I don't wanna have adisappointed user of our
products.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:30:03):
I don't disagree.
Uh, a good friend of mine isjust fixated on buying a calf
out of this, outta this upcomingsale, and I keep telling him,
look, you're a spring calvingherd.
This is a fall calf.
Let it go.

(01:30:23):
There's no sense in buying thisthing and carrying it just it's
not for you.
Find something else.
You know, don't, don't rearrangeyour whole breeding program over
one freaking calf.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:30:36):
Yeah,

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:30:37):
just let it go.
Find something else.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:30:40):
We need to have the marketing, the
marketing, anti-marketingpodcast at some point, I think.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:30:46):
we

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:30:46):
But I definitely see a big, big
difference between, uh, boomersand then whatever the next
generation is.
And then the difference betweenthat kind of group of people and
then how we market ourgeneration.
And the younger wants to connectpeople who enjoy it and have the
right products with the rightpeople.

(01:31:07):
The other ones are just like.
gotta get my stuff sold.
I gotta get my stuff sold, Igotta get my stuff sold.
And I think if that's yourmentality, I hope you're
listening to us.
And I hope these words meansomething that Window's closing,
it's closing on, you know,anything.
I mean, food choices, peoplemake car choices, people make
clothing choices, people makeevery product that they buy, um,

(01:31:31):
their expectations need to bemet or they'll find something
else.
And so I think it's on us asproducer of products, um, the
products we sell, our cattle orembryos or whatever, we need to
make sure that we're meetingour, our expectations of our
customers.
'cause they've already chose topartner with us.
They're our partners.
And if you don't producesomething that does what you say

(01:31:51):
you will, you're not a very goodpartner.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:31:54):
Not holding up your end.

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:31:55):
That's right.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:31:56):
you brought up boomers and the, and
whatever, I guess we'remillennials, right?
I don't know what

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:32:01):
You might be a millennial.
I think I'm a, I'm earlier thana millennial, like by a year or
something.
I'm probably in the same groupas Vince.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:32:08):
what the, uh, regardless of what the
year cutoffs are, I, I wonder ifit's, it's not too early to
start thinking about marketingto that next generation because
they come and, um, and how arethey gonna digest information
differently?
And, and I think that'sobviously what, what the idea
behind having that interactivesail book is, is, is to make

(01:32:29):
things easier and to make thingsmore, more in line with what the
digital world as, as what gonnahappen going forward.
I, I think that's constantly amoving target and as technology
becomes available, I think it'sgood to be on the leading edge
of it.
Um, so yeah, it's, it's alwaysfun to think about.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:32:50):
Did you have

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:32:51):
Joe, what year?
What year were you born?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:32:53):
I was born in 83, but

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:32:56):
you're a millennial.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:32:57):
no, no, no, no,

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:32:59):
You're a millennial.
I looked it up.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:33:01):
But my dad's not a boomer.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:04):
I can't help that.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:05):
crap what your dad is.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:07):
a, I'm a,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:08):
you, bro.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:08):
I'm a, I'm a Gen X

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:33:10):
not a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:10):
and you and Corbin are both
millennials.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:33:13):
I've, I've had like professionals that
evaluate this stuff and they saythat I'm not a millennial.
I

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:19):
This says it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:20):
to be a

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:20):
81.
81 to 2000 is a millennial.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:33:25):
There's no year

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:26):
that I'm in the same, same boat as
somebody born in 1999.
They're idiots.

joe_1_03-16-2025_17273 (01:33:33):
exactly.
But I got a bow to tie on allthis.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:36):
But here's a whole different one
that says

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:33:38):
fine.
It's gonna come up with Genchi.

vince_1_03-16-2025_ (01:33:40):
millennials are 80 to 94.
Then you have the iGen slash GenZ from 95 to 2012.
Ooh, the new ones, the alphafrom, from 2013.
They did

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:33:59):
'em Alpha?
They

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:34:00):
Alpha.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:34:01):
the Covid kids called

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:34:03):
The what?
The Covid kids.
They're alphas.
They're alphas.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:34:06):
that's wrong

vince_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:34:08):
Alpha, beta, Zeta.
Either way, I'm a, I'm a, I'm aGen X,

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:34:14):
Yeah.
You

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:34:15):
so I am an old

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:34:17):
I think I got a good way to tie a bow on
all this though.
Uh, because

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:34:21):
what?

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:34:21):
about they're coming, they're coming.
think this new generation ofconsuming Angus genetics is
gonna want more than the EPDs.
If they're gonna want cattlethat say they do what they say
or do what they say they'll do.
And I think some of these morequalitative traits, um, are hard

(01:34:43):
to measure.
They're hard to describe.
That's your job as a breeder.
There's gonna be more and moreEPDs what we got four on the
horizon for May three on thehorizon for May.
And a new kind of tinkering withdollar maternal.
That's gonna include functionallongevity.
Don't freak out.
Just keep, stay the course.
Keep raising the kind of cattleyou like and keep servicing your

(01:35:04):
customer base.
That's, that's my advice.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:35:07):
Yep.
I would agree.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:35:09):
Yep.
Yep.
Couldn't have

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:35:12):
to take it away?

korbin_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:35:14):
Yep.
This is Vince's part.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:35:17):
Well, well, you can say it.
I was thinking about that today.
I always hog it.

joe_1_03-16-2025_172735 (01:35:21):
No, but it sounds so good when you say
it.

korbin_1_03-16-2025_19273 (01:35:23):
Yeah.
I like it better when you do it.

vince_1_03-16-2025_192736 (01:35:27):
Okay.
Catch y'all next week.
Take it away.
We'll see you next time, Aroundthe Chute.