Finding a Clear Path

Send us a text

In this podcast episode, the hosts discuss their experiences managing cattle, highlighting the importance of establishing a clear path in breeding and managing herds. They also explore the impact of environmental concerns such as cow methane emissions on cattle production and how external influences like donations and regulations affect their operations. The conversation emphasizes staying true to personal breeding objectives while balancing outside pressures and innovations in the industry.

Episode Transcript

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:00):
All right guys.
We're

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:02):
Ooh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:03):
32, 23 seconds.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:04):
Ooh.
How come you're at 23 and I'm at10?

joe_1_05-25-2025_14114 (00:07):
minutes.
We've been talking for 20minutes, and there've been no
issues.
I can't see Vince.
He looks like he's a Minecraftcharacter.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:13):
He's got a really bad glare on his
glasses, to be honest with you.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:17):
my glasses or my head?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (00:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He put lotion on his forehead.
What have y'all been doing?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:25):
Hey, welcome.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (00:26):
to Around the Shoot.
remind people, they probablyforgot we even have a podcast.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:31):
is, I think this is episode 11.
Is it?
Is it episode 11?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:35):
We skipped 10.
We skipped 10.
So, uh, apologies to everyone.
We were all busy.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (00:41):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (00:41):
Or is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:42):
We,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (00:42):
first episode of season two?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (00:44):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:45):
no, no.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (00:47):
Oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (00:47):
Podcasts don't have seasons.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (00:49):
Okay,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:50):
it's kind of switching to summer now.
So we went from cold to warm.
I.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (00:55):
Okay.
Those seasons

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (00:57):
So the season changed.
We're in a new season of liferight now.
Vince, is it raining at yourhouse right now?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:05):
Uh, yeah, yeah.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:07):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:08):
We're supposed to get three inches
over the last, the next threedays, but we got an inch and
three quarters yesterday,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:17):
Yeah.
Before we go too much further, Ijust wanna, and, and our
specific area here, and I knowVince's area had some tornadoes
and stuff too.
Man, my heart goes out to thosepeople because there's, there's
quite a few people that don'thave a house anymore down here.
Um, and, and that always hitsreally close to home for me
because it's literally on ournews.

(01:37):
It's, and we're in the sameviewing area.
I mean, as a crow flies to someof these people we're 15 miles.
And it seems like somethingtragic, like this happens.
Every single storm season, andit just breaks my heart every
time, even though I, you know,I've been on that end of it
before, so my heart goes out tothose people.
I know what you're dealing withand I know that it's hard, but,
um, as long as everyone's safe,it kind of all just works out at

(02:01):
the end, in the end.
And, um, just praying for thosepeople that, that are having to
rebuild.
But no, that there's a, there'sa sunny day ahead for sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (02:11):
You had a, you got hit by a na,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (02:13):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (02:14):
your

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (02:14):
And, and yes, it could have been
much, much, much, much, muchworse.
But yeah, we've been hit by, uh,and it was mainly the hail.
The hail was softball size,hail.
And so it took out, um, it did$150,000 of damage to my
parents' house.
And then it took out somewindows here at my house.

(02:35):
Um, in fact, heck, two day,three, four days ago, we had a
tree.
There's one tree going up mydriveway.
One, one tree.
It's a big tree.
And that one tree blew over thedriveway, knocked two sides of
fence out.
I'm like, we had, we had onetree and, and, and of course the
tree couldn't blow the otherway, you know what I mean?

(02:57):
Where it just would fall ontonothing.
It had to fall onto the drivewayand, uh, and over the fence.
So yeah, we, we had to clean allthat up and that particular tree
broke into about 6 millionpieces.
So it was not like you couldjust,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (03:11):
hate

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (03:12):
yeah, it's not like I could just, it
was dead.
Yeah, it was dead.
It's not like I could, uh, couldpush it up or anything.
I mean, I, I had to pretty much,and, and I, and oh my gosh,
there's more.
I just redid my driveway, so Ididn't want to take the
skidsteer down there and trackeverything up and tear it all
up.
So I just piled it all up byhand.
And it was a big debt tree andit took a while.

(03:34):
And then, you know, once we justhad the big stumps left, we cut
it up with a chainsaw and pushedit all into a big pile.
And I already burned it, butgolly, that's a pain in the
butt.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (03:43):
It is.
It is.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (03:46):
I got all kinds of stuff going on.
shipping, customer cattle,shipping our own cattle.
This next week we're gonna pregcheck cows and that's when, uh,
we'll be getting our weightsdone.
And, um.
On all the cows and then themature, I think it's height it's
called or something like thatyou have to do within 45 days of

(04:07):
when you wean in order toqualify.
We might try to do some hairshed.
Um, EPDs, I've never done thatbefore.
Most of our cows are shed outnow, so I don't know if there's
even enough difference in

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (04:17):
When are you supposed to do it?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (04:19):
The hair shed deal,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (04:20):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (04:21):
I don't know.
I don't know if there's aguideline for it.
Corbin, do you know it all?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (04:25):
No, and I don't care.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (04:28):
No way to be.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (04:30):
Being apathetic is not good.
Corbin.
We'll get to the apatheticsecond section here in a little
bit.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (04:35):
uh, we'll be there.
I mean, maybe we need to wait totalk about it.
Yeah, I'm pretty, uh, prettydone.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (04:41):
Well, so I'll collect that data.
I'll get that turned in.
Um, I used to think that freezebranding was the thing I hated
most in this production season,but it's been replaced by data.
It absolutely has.
I turn in so much data, it takesso much time.
talked to, uh, Vince and myfavorite Angus Association

(05:04):
employee last week, just tryingto get a, a little heifer calf
registered and transferred intoa junior's name and then trying
to get a junior membership.
And, you know, those people atthe association were incredibly
helpful, but it should not bethis hard in the year 2025 to
get a junior membership blew mymind.
Like, you gotta print off thepaper, then you gotta fill it

(05:27):
out, then you gotta re-scan itand send it to somebody.
And I'm like, why don't we justhave some fields that you just
like fill in a field and sendthe field off.
I mean, we aren't doing nuclearphysicists physics here.
We're, we're getting a juniormembership that costs 20 bucks,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (05:40):
But, and this, this could help with
your tornadoes, Corbin.
This could help with both of ourtornadoes.
Bezos money that's gonna trackcow farts and cow emissions.
Are we gonna have tab catalyticconverters on our ca Will they
be lytic converters?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (06:02):
No.
What's gonna happen, Vince, isthat all of my cows are gonna
fall on the wrong spectrum.
And so they're all gonna beworthless.
And as soon as we get done withall this data,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (06:12):
Why did we not do a fake commercial
about this?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (06:14):
we,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (06:15):
We will,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (06:17):
Okay,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (06:17):
will.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (06:17):
spoil it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (06:19):
You're just spoiled it.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (06:20):
I mean, a, I will come up with
something a little differentthan, than we will, not much
different, but a littledifferent than what we could
come up with.
But yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (06:29):
Well, it's,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (06:30):
it's, it's, hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (06:32):
it's gonna affect everybody and.
At the end of the day, is it,are we really gonna figure out
something to make the world abetter place to help protect
everybody from cow

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (06:45):
Well, here's my question is, is is
that 4.8 million, which correctme if I'm wrong, I think I send
the association that by myselfevery year, but 4.8 million, is
that really gonna, I mean, whatis the gain other than that 4.85
million?
I mean, you're not going tosolve the world's problem.

(07:06):
It's already well known thatone, like and I, and I don't
have the stats in front of me toknow exactly what, but there's
been studies done on cow fartsbefore and they've come up with
the fact that there arenon-issue.
I mean, if you think about it,there's a hell of a lot more
people in the world than thereare cows and.
Uh, we fart more than they doso, so should we start

(07:26):
eliminating people?
And I guarantee you, our carbonfootprint's way bigger than the
cows.
So I don't know.
All of it's just

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (07:33):
about something even more doable than
that?
Corbin, what about all theuseless horses around?
for people.
Luxury.
Pets, luxury.
Everybody's got four dogs now.
What's a carbon footprint ofyour dog?
And that's why we live inAmerica is so we can have those
things for crying out loud is sothe government doesn't tell us
you can only have one dog.
You can't have four dogs.
Or you can, I mean, I just,could get going and going on

(07:56):
this one for a long time as youguys were talking, I was trying
to find this article that afriend of mine actually wrote in
the Western Livestock Journal.
Um, it was quite, quite good.
You can go to my Facebook p uh,page and get it.
But it was just quiteinteresting, uh, to see.
He talks about the net worth of190 billion of Bezos, which is

(08:21):
and some change of the$89billion value of the entire US
cattle industry.
his personal net worth.
And so we're gonna measure cowfarts, or we're gonna say we
aren't gonna measure cow farts.
Guys, I'm sorry.
I, I mean, I, I think what'sgonna happen here is that they
are going to identify a genethat says that these cattle have

(08:43):
or less methane emissions versustheir growth.
But it again, will be in a halfbaked program.
Where it'll be this deal wherewe don't even consider, well, it
doesn't matter how many opencows you have, if you select for
that gene or how many have badfeet, we're gonna look at it,
this one silo for this one traitand devalue a whole bunch of
cattle and we're really kind ofmaking up a problem that's not

(09:05):
even there.
That's the frustrating part forme.
Um, I was all involved in a lotof regenerative grazing type
stuff, and it was always anunpopular opinion when I would
say, let's evaluate the worstgrass manager, the worst grass
manager in my entire region.
He's still doing more positivethings for the ecology of this
region than a track of homes.

(09:27):
doing more positive things forthis region than another
government center or morepavement.
You know, you talked to, uh,several of these really, really
smart guys, and I won't mentionanybody's names here, but I'm
thinking of a gentleman who Italked to who said that close to
these city centers, they couldactually measure the
temperature.
It, these cities are changingthe climate of a region because

(09:49):
of just the asphalt and

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (09:51):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (09:52):
Yeah, absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (09:53):
hitting a blade of grass and that water
going in or running off to awaterway, now it's hitting
asphalt or it's hitting a, asteel roof.
And so this is a long way aroundguys, but what I was gonna say
when Corbin first mentioned thisto me is like, yeah, we're
gonna, we're going to parse downthe beef industry and make sure
that Joe does a better job inCorbin and Vince do a better job
of being more efficient.

(10:14):
But yet my wife can have a barof soap and if.
A eight by eight package ofcardboard delivered in less than
24 hours to our doorstep.
What's the carbon footprint ofthat?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (10:25):
And it's

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (10:25):
think it's such virtue signaling and
it's somebody trying to getahead of the game on, on
something else.
It's very, very

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (10:32):
Well, and I got, but I got, I'm not
mad at Bezos forgiving, I'm madat us for like, who, who made
this like, no, I didn't get avote.
No.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (10:42):
You don't ever get a vote

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (10:44):
Oh no.
But that you do get a vote onyour board members and that's
who votes.
I don't know these.
No, I didn't get a vote.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (10:49):
probably cost, it'll probably cost us
money and time somehow over allthis crap.
I guarantee it'll end up costingus money

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (11:00):
How did we need 4.8 million?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (11:02):
get taxed.
We'll probably get taxed.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (11:04):
one way that it always cost the cow calf
guy.
It always cost the cow calf andthe seed stock guy the entire
burden of beef improvement.
I.
I don't know of any studiespeople are talking about a
feeding this feed stuff insteadof this feed stuff or trying
this instead of that, it's like,no, we need more highly marbled
steaks.
That is the fault of the cowcalf guy.

(11:25):
We need more highly marbledsteaks.
That's the fault of the purebredguy.
And so we keep levying thepeople with this tightest gross
margin with uh, the geneticimprovement.
I mean, it just seemspreposterous to me.
And maybe that'll, that'swhat'll end up leading us to
vertical integration over time.
I think it probably will.
Um, but these cow calf guys, wedon't need, I mean, we don't

(11:50):
need to give them more ways todevalue their cattle For
everyone that's worth more.
They got one that's worth, worthless.
And they don't think about theirherds on an individual basis.
It's an entire herd.
It's an investment portfolio, ifyou will.
And uh, there's so much abroader impact that these cows
have.
What about the positive effectsof grazing landscapes?

(12:13):
You know, we've seen a lot ofthat out here in California, to
be honest.
People buy into the rhetoricabout cows.
So instead they'll hire peoplewith combustible engines to go
weed whack, or combustibleengines to go, excuse me, take
mowers, and then the man hourswith that.
And what's the impact of that?
And then, you know, and theseMediterranean climates out here,
they actually need hoof action.

(12:34):
They need churning that oxidizedgrass back into the soil.
They need the impact of theanimals.
And it just, I don't know.
I wish we would've never evengotten the discussion.
I've heard it said before, ifyou're not at the table, you're
on the plate.
Well, sometimes we don't evenneed to show up.
you need to say, I'm not evengonna be there for that

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (12:53):
Do you know what's.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (12:54):
because we, we were taught, sorry,
Corbin, but for like the past 10years, 20 years, I've noticed a
shift before you used to be ableto gain some traction, but to
now I feel like the ag peopleare the only ones taking a step
forward.
We keep taking a step forward tomeet people where they're at,
and I don't see those otherfolks taking a step forward to,
to at least reach halfwayanymore at all.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (13:17):
You know what's crazy is, is in the,
uh, you know, we've got all thatgoing on on our end where it's
like we have to start analyzingcow farts.
But do you know what's happeningwith the nation's cow herd?
It's getting smaller andsmaller, and no one wants to
deal with this crap, and no onewants to do it anymore.
So then the beef prices aregoing higher.
So then now it's, it's justquite the cycle where it's like,
uh, okay, are we really worryingabout cow herts as, as our

(13:41):
nation's cowherd is dwindling.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (13:44):
Do you think it is a ploy to try to
do away with beef a little bitand, and more the fake meat

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (13:59):
Well, I guarantee you Bezos is
invested in that too.
Uh, I mean,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (14:03):
He

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1 (14:03):
guarantee it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (14:04):
the thing from Drover's right here.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (14:06):
So it's.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (14:07):
Um.
Yeah, he's, he's, uh, NorthCarolina State University.
He's donating money for them toresearch the fake meat products.
And then maybe he's researchingit to see how bad they are.
I don't know.
Um, I can't imagine that.
But he gave him 30 million overfive years, so.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (14:30):
Yeah.
And the worst part is I didn'tsee, I didn't see 30 million
for, low interest loans toincentivize young people into
agriculture.
I didn't see 30 million forbuilding up, um, the vitality of
rural communities.
I didn't see 4.85 million for,um, you know.

(14:51):
Assistance for farmers who'vehad a hard time.
I didn't see any of that.
I, I think this is just acheckbox virtue signaling,
multi, multi, multi-billionaireshelling some chump change to a
place.
And, and I guess where I gotmost frustrated and I haven't
talked to anybody at theassociation about it, I'll tell
you why.
'cause I don't think it would doany good.
I think both parties would justbe pissed off and it wouldn't go

(15:14):
anywhere.
Um, so I didn't, but, um, we didnot get out in front of the
dialogue either again, and soallowed clickbait to drive
dialogue and it plays right intothe hands of the activists that
believe what we're doing is bad.
And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (15:29):
He,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (15:30):
me.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (15:30):
he probably is doing it like you're
saying, to check a box, Hey, Idonated X amount of dollars try
to help with this climatechange, or whatever it might be.
I'm sure you know, a guy that'sgot that much money has to do so
much of that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_14 (15:48):
Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (15:48):
I don't ever have that problem

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (15:50):
I guarantee that's what it is.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (15:52):
Well,

vince_1_05-25-2025_1612 (15:53):
Corman?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (15:53):
no, and that's, and that's, but
that's exactly the problem is Ijust feel like the more money I,
I just feel like the rugby kitgets keep being pulled out from
under me.
It's like, you know, finallywe've got this great market and
yet, yet we still have to doresearch on these, these
emissions from cows.
It's like, man, we cannot haveanything nice.

(16:15):
Literally can't have nothingnice.
And then, which we can get intoour main topic or not.
Then, you know, nevermind thefact that we've got two more
EPDs that everybody's gonnastart staring at now.
It's like, how much crap do weneed?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (16:31):
It is a lot, but they're high.
I'm sure they're highlyaccurate.
I'm bet everybody turned theirdata in.
I know Joe did, but

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (16:39):
easy.
Easy.
I'm gonna take the fifth on thatone for a while.

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (16:42):
Corbin and I for sure

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (16:44):
right?
We stay, we stay silent.
If, if it benefits us, and if itdoesn't benefit us, then we just
throw a big

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (16:50):
Well, uh, you know, the, the truth is,
is I haven't even looked at anyof my numbers.
I just, I'll write off the bat,just, I'm like, why do I need to
be inundated with more crap?
I don't, uh, it's stupid.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (17:03):
But why?
Why even bother to look at it ifthe data, you never turn the
data in on that animal.
I mean, for real, like Corbin,you did, I know you didn't do it
and I didn't do it, but we bothgot the EPDs on our cows.
So how accurate is that whenthey're saying, well, the

(17:30):
grandfather and the father, they

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (17:33):
But they're not though.
Because

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (17:35):
and blah, blah,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (17:35):
have you looked at, uh, have you
looked at flush siblings?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (17:41):
Yes,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (17:41):
not the same.
They're way, they're waydifferent.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (17:44):
could have a perfect utter and one
could have a pile of crap underher.
I would agree.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (17:48):
Um,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (17:48):
I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (17:49):
even on the, on the data that I have
too, um, yeah, I've looked at myflush siblings on their t and
underscore and they're muchdifferent on their,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (17:58):
So that means they're incorporating
genomics for

korbin_1_05-25-2025 (18:00):
absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (18:01):
Yeah.
And that there again is theproblem

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (18:05):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (18:05):
that's always been my frustration with
new trait development because

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (18:09):
with any trait development.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (18:10):
if you look, if you look at like the
stuff that I've turned in, Iwould say comparatively in my
herd, it makes sense.
And I saw the same thing when Iturned in foot EPDs.
then when.
As it started to progress andpeople started just maybe not
turn, I, I assume it wasn't,they weren't turning in data.

(18:31):
They were just flushing numberones to, number ones to number
ones to number ones.
Well, now we look at the footEPD deal.
I'd, I'd almost tell you thatfoot EPDs are more inaccurate
than they've ever been, which isfrustrating because they should
be more, so I said this before,I, I really felt like we could
start out some of this new traitdevelopment with a lot more

(18:54):
actual data.
we incorporated the genomics.
And I would assume if we hadthose people on, they'd say,
well, we had lots of data beforewe did and, and we solicited it
and this is right and it's gonnacorrect itself as you turn in
more data, I would say on thehole in my herd, it's
representative.
But there's some outliers too.
You know, there's some cattlethat are outta cires that got

(19:15):
hammered that are pretty doggonegood uttered, that appear pretty
poor on there.
And then vice versa, some thatwere on auto sis that were
pretty, pretty good, um, thataren't as good as what their
EPDs are saying.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (19:29):
I think, I think,

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (19:29):
people are,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (19:31):
go ahead Vince.
I think my biggest,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (19:33):
are not.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (19:34):
oh, we're gonna do this now.
Huh?
We're gonna do this.
You go.
Okay.
I'll go.
I think my, uh, you know, of thethree traits, my biggest
frustration is definitelyfunctional longevity because
I've identified a few cowfamilies that will work for me.
A fertility is probably one ofour biggest shortcomings in our

(19:55):
area because the, the, theweather is so extreme and the
amount of feed that we have forthe winter is not great.
And so fertility is definitelysomething we, we emphasize a
lot.
And my biggest frustration isthat on the functional
longevity, there's a cow family,the Glenda Cow family that I've
identified where all thedaughters breed up, all their

(20:16):
daughters breed up, and, and,and we are kind of able to build
an entire cow herd around thiscow.
But yet her fun functionallongevity score is in the 70th
percentile.
Um, she died at 15.
Um, her daughter, she's gotthree or four pathfinder
daughters and, and two or threemore that are coming up and, and
it's, and they are still lialive and thriving up upwards of

(20:38):
10.
They're breeding up every year.
They're the cows that are gonnamake my entire cow herd.
But yet through one number, I I,it's, I slap in the face for
them to tell me that everythingthat I've put all this time and
effort into is wrong.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (20:52):
Well, the taking the drop of blood or
a tissue sample and they'vebuilt this algorithm and they
are not like, I, I'm not gonnasit there and take the time.
I mean, Joe just was talkingearlier that what a drain it was

(21:13):
to collect data.
Take.
I'm not gonna take the timecollect all this data and pay
somebody to come out and, andcarcass scan everything and then
turn it in.
And then they don't give a crapabout any of the actual data.
They just worry about what thetissue and blood sample says.

(21:34):
So why do all the work?
Well, it's not gonna be accurateno matter what they say.
Because as soon as you turn inthat tissue or blood sample, all
your actual data can go out thewindow and they can say, no, no,
no, that's not true.
All they want.
When I watch it affect my EPDsthe way it does, it tells me all

(21:57):
the actual data went out thewindow, and genomics first came
out, they were not to move anEPD over, what was it, 10%.
It was very, very, very minimal.
now you've got animals growing50%

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (22:16):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (22:17):
going down 50%.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161 (22:18):
Getting hammered.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (22:19):
not supposed to do that.
They changed that and didn'ttell anybody

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (22:24):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_1612 (22:25):
because I remember when it all first
came out.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (22:29):
Well, and I guess I would add to that,
um, I wrote a note here whenCorbin was talking, and Vince, I
appreciate what you added too.
I think the frustration lies inus not giving enough value to
the environmental differences.
We've talked about that beforeon here, how EPDs are supposed
to pull the environment out ofit.

(22:51):
the environment's important.
What if we're, and I don't knowthe answer to this Corbin, I'm
just saying rhetorically, theGlenda's, wherever they were
developed, maybe they were fed alot and those cattle fell out
like crazy.
But when they came to Oklahomaand how you managed them along
with everything else, thosecattle thrived and were awesome.

(23:14):
those cattle are gonna show upas being hammered because of all
the data associated with themunder one management scenario
and not the other.
And I know that some of thecattle under my functional
longevity, there's certain ones,if you would've demanded a lot
more production out of them.
You probably would've calledthem.

(23:34):
So if those cattle were testedthen in an Iowa or Nebraska or
Kansas, I don't, I don't know.
Um, I'm just saying again,rhetorically, I'd have to
imagine people would've calledthem.
That's why I don't like now, Ithink we're too far along in
this game to keep continuallypulling environment out of it.
We need to have all of thesetraits rooted in some sort of

(23:55):
practicality and some sort ofrealistic, usable nature.
Because another one, I told youguys this before and we'll bring
it into this podcast, we sawwith a grass fed customer of
mine that a lot of the modernhigh carcass EP DD cattle.
Do not perform under hisscenario.
And a lot of the cattle youwould call, quote unquote

(24:16):
heritage cattle who, uh, moremoderate frame easier fleshing.
A lot of them are negative IMF.
Um, a lot of their bulls aremore high testosterone bulls
too, by the way.
Put those in a grass scenario.
Those cattle marbled like crazy.
But the modern feedlot typegenetics did not perform.
I think you could say the sameabout every one of these traits,

(24:37):
which makes it really, reallyhard to say that in Auburn,
California, what I have and isthriving here is going to
translate also to Oklahoma or toTennessee or to anywhere else.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (24:48):
What do you mean when you say they
pull the environment out of it,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (24:52):
It is not a factor.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (24:55):
but how can it not be a factor?
If Corbin has been in a droughtfor three years and you know,
his weights are not gonna bewhat they should be and you turn
in weights, I mean, are you'retalking about all the EPDs or
are you just talking

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (25:11):
Just the ones that pretty, pretty
much not, not like my weights,no.
Not like hard data like that.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (25:17):
gonna affect the cow's breeding

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16 (25:19):
Exactly,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (25:20):
gonna affect your weights, it's gonna
infect,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (25:23):
and that's, yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (25:24):
cow's weight.
It's gonna affect the milk sheput produces.
It's gonna affect a lot of

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (25:30):
so taking all that into account on
one cow family that I've, I'vebeen around now for a whole
decade, and for them to come outwith a number on a whim and tell
me that, that cow family thatI've spent my entire, I mean,
I've put so much blood, sweat,and tears into this cow herding
for you to come in there, put anumber on her that is not
indicative of what they are atall.

(25:51):
I'm just like, you know what,what's the point?
Why would I go look at my EPDsand no, and no.
You know what, no, she's not atthe bottom of the barrel, but
you know what, to me, she's top1% because I've brought a bunch
of this top 1% crap in which Ihave, might not have, but I've
brought a bunch of stuff that'stop 15, top 10.
I know that the few cows Ilooked at, and it is junk.

(26:12):
It is garbage.
Won't work.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (26:16):
So would you say the same about, we
were just talking about thedonated fund and the emission
stuff too.
Would you say that maybe we justneed to tune that out and just
keep doing what we're doingbecause there's more and more
people, each one of these thingsthat comes out kind of breaks
the trust because like, I don'tlive in la LA land.

(26:37):
I live in reality and these cowsare killing it here and we're
just gonna keep doing that.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (26:42):
Yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (26:42):
Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (26:43):
we end up maybe going the other way now
and it kind of, I don't know ifit, this term's gonna be funny,
but if it hurts, quote unquotegenetic improvement.
But you know what?
It's not exciting anymore.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (26:56):
no.

joe_1_05-25-2025_14114 (26:56):
exciting to me to find out every Friday
if my cows have been devalued ornot.
and so I'm just satisfied withwhat I have.
I try to use the tools that wehave, which is our own eye and
the network of people we havebefore we bring genes in.
Because guess what?
They are still the exact samecows that they were.
The ones that are high ratioingratioing cows are still high

(27:17):
ratio and the low ratioing cowsare still low ratioing cows.
The ones that need to leave arestill the ones that need to
leave.
Um, I guess the frustration Ihave is when I was, I was trying
to explain it to Miles when wewere gathering some cattle the
other day.
Uh, I said, it's kind of wildmiles.
Some people will make someresets.
Donors now and donors will beresets again.

(27:37):
And you see that cycle everythree to five years when a new
trait comes out as somebody goesfrom the front to the back and
the back to the front.
And are we gonna do that exactsame thing with all this
emission stuff that's coming onand everything else?
I think the cowboys who are outthere that have control of land
and just do a good job ofproducing high quality cattle.
What's crazy as guys, if wethink about the supermarket and

(27:58):
the, the stereotypical housewifefeeding people, doesn't care
about all this stuff.
She just wants to buy beef froma family she trusts.
It's as simple.
Um, or if the husband's out, Imean we, if he's out grocery
shopping, he wants to buy beeffrom somewhere he can trust,
it's gonna be a good eatingexperience.
And I like to think that theUnited States cattle producer

(28:19):
has that market cornered.
They do a great job of producingsuper high quality beef.
And if you don't believe that,go eat some beef from somewhere
else.

korbin_1_05-25-2025 (28:26):
Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (28:27):
So with that said, how do you
identify a clear path that youwant to be on when everything is
changing constantly,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (28:38):
Whew.
Corbin, did you see thattransition?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (28:41):
nice.
That was nice.
I was wondering how we weregonna get there, you know?
No, I think,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (28:48):
Go.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (28:49):
I, I think for me, and this is
something that I was wanting toget to too, I'm glad Vince
brought up the actual

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (28:55):
stay on it?
How you gonna stay

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (28:56):
Yeah, I think, I'm glad Vince actually
transitioned it by by saying it,because I was just gonna, my
next point was gonna be.
My head's down my head.
I, I'm going to spend more timewith the cows and less time with
the paper.
I mean, I've been, as I've beendoing that over the past, I
would say five or six years, youknow, right around when the, the
dollar c the foot scores and allthat stuff started coming out.

(29:19):
Um, I think it was, it was justsort of, the line was drawn in
the sand.
It was like, you know, what, amI going to get enthralled with
these numbers or am I gonna makecows that work?
E ever since I've done that inthe past six or seven years,
where I've not necessarilyignored the paper, but for the
most part, ignored the paper.
Um, this cow herd has thrive andgotten much better.

(29:39):
It's gotten much better.
Calling on the right things youshould be calling on has been
such a blessing to me.
And just being able to change acow herd by doing it yourself
and not like, I ha I haven'tused anyone's help.
I've done it all on my own.
And so I'm definitely not gonnastart using someone's someone's
opinion now.
I mean, now that I, I'veidentified what needs to be
done, I'm gonna go keep doing itbecause I'm gonna say I know

(30:01):
more than, than the genomicsknows.
Sorry.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (30:04):
There is no substitute for going and
evaluating your cattle.
Evaluating the calves that areon these cattle.
nothing on that piece of paperthat is ever gonna tell you that
information without you gettingoutta your truck or getting
outta your office, or gettingoutta your house or whatever you
want it to be.

(30:24):
And going through a pasture andevaluating the cattle, nothing.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (30:30):
So, Vince, do you remember when we
had this conversation what youwere doing?
This is a long time ago.
It was this spring.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (30:37):
Hmm.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (30:37):
I remember exactly where I parked
my four-wheeler because I runoutta reception when I talk to
you guys and it's next to thispylon gate we have.
you were looking at your receptsin your commercial cows and you
said something like, I don'twanna put words in your mouth,
but it was like, man, this isjust a nice set of cows.
Like they're just

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (30:56):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (30:57):
and they're so functional.
And correct me if I'm wrong, butyou said I just turned bulls out
on'em.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (31:03):
Uh, AI to any bull that I own, that
I collect because the semensfree or cheap.
then we put our bulls on'em.
That's it.
We do one round AI on heifersand we put our bulls out on
cows.
We do one egg and put out and Iretain all the heifers and it's

(31:25):
so much easier.
This when we were calving thedamn, I had five calves in one
day commercials and I was sohappy.
They were just nice calves.
They had vigor.
I didn't have to worry about aretheir feet gonna blow out?
I didn't have to worry aboutwhat their EPDs were gonna be.
I didn't have to worry about anyof it.
It just had nice calves.
Their hardest thing they gottado is grow up and breed, and if

(31:46):
they don't breed, I don'tfreaking stress

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (31:48):
You know what's great?
Yeah.
You don't gotta tag'em.
You don't gotta weigh'em.
You don't gotta turn data in.
You don't gotta look at theirnumbers.
You don't gotta be discouragedabout what happened to this
one's numbers on this day.
If they're not bred, you call'em.
If they don't raise a big calf,you call'em, you move on.
Look at my commercial cow herdthat's as says 50 cows.
That's as far away from me asthey could get because no one

(32:09):
can see'em back there becausethey're just cows.
This is my favorite set of cowsto go through.
They're my favorite set of cowsto move, and that's because
they're low maintenance.
They're easy.
It's awesome.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (32:18):
You wanna know.
What's funny about that is ifyou take them to a sale barn,
they're on an equal playingfield, and which ones are worth
the real money?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (32:26):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (32:27):
Yep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (32:28):
The ones Vince just described.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (32:30):
I mean,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (32:31):
are worth the real money.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (32:32):
so much easier.
I was on the phone with Wilsonthe other day and he, he ran to
the stockyard and he said, hangon a minute.
He got out.
He went and told the guys, andhe got back in the truck.
I said, they ask you for yourdollar C Did they ask you what
the reg numbers were?
Did they ask you what themarbling was of those calves?
He said, no, they didn't ask meany of that.
I said, exactly.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (32:53):
you know what, and, and Joe's
brought this up a couple timesin the past couple weeks, but do
you know how stupid that theaverage person that goes to the
sale barn and sells their cattlewould think we are for all the
shit we do with our cows?
If you know how stupid theywould say, oh, that is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (33:11):
It is ridiculous.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (33:12):
next to a good, good customer of ours
who runs a lot, a lot of cattle,and so enough to where he buys
some bulls from us, but there'sno way he could satisfy.
He buys pot loads of bulls andhe just buys some bulls from me
just to support.
I.
He said, um, he was verygracious yesterday.
He's like, you know what?
The reason I buy some bulls fromyou is you are the only person

(33:32):
that I know of in this area whoknows what it's like to sell
cattle on this side of theequation.
If you ever want some reality,spend some time in some sale
barns, actually see how cattleare valued, actually see how
those cattle buyers attributevalue to calves that they buy,
and they are getting some intothis GeneMax scoring and
everything.
But I'll tell you what, you canhave all the bells and whistles.

(33:53):
You can have all theverifications, but if the cattle
aren't good, they do not bring apremium in a sale barn.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (33:58):
No.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (33:59):
most of the time they don't bring a
premium on the video saleseither.
They, they might work for someof those a MA type agreements
where you're feeding them directand stuff like that.
But I'll tell you, if thosecattle reach a buyer anywhere,
they better have a certain lookto'em, and those guys evaluate
those cattle accordingly.
And all of a sudden, when youstrip away.
It's funny, we've talked onetime, you remember the word

(34:21):
crutches got bred up the wordcrutches, like everybody's got a
crutch for their cattle orsomething.
I was all mad about that.
Um, I mean, do the, does thepaper and the pedigree become a
crutch up these cattle sayingthat they have value and

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (34:35):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_ (34:37):
Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (34:37):
and does it become also a, a, an
anchor on some cattle where it'slike, boy, that pedigree, I
don't know that I really love itand, and I get the calls still
all the time about peopletalking about pedigree,
placement and stuff.
Yes, the pedigree provides valueand context to your selection
and inheritance and all thosethings, but we gotta remember

(34:58):
that good is good and bad isbad.
And just because one has acertain pedigree doesn't make
them climb the ladder of valuein our program.
Or either direction doesn't make'em plummet and it doesn't make
'em, they gotta make it on theirown merits.
Vince, I feel like you weregonna say something.
I cut you off.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (35:14):
I was just gonna say, I was talking to
a guy the other day and uh, hewas talking about a neighbor
looking down on some guys thatdidn't have the right EPD or the
right this, or the right thatand that he's got a standards
and blah, blah.
And my question was going to wasto him, what is he gonna do when
he wakes up one morning and AAAis no more?

(35:37):
And all those papers that he hasgoes in the garbage will, his
cattle withstand every day today, whatever, without that
paper propping'em up.
Do their job and sell calves theway he needs to sell calves.
Does that make

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (35:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (36:00):
I mean, what was the, what was the
old adage that we first startedtalking about years ago?
Cut all their ear tags out andput'em in a pen

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (36:08):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (36:08):
Yep.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (36:10):
that, don't tell you a thing about A
EPD.
It don't tell you ID number,don't tell you nothing.
You just evaluate the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (36:16):
And then, you know what the, if you
don't have the, the fullcontext, you could put all them
in the pen and somebody could gopick one, and I guarantee you,
they wouldn't pick the best oneanyway.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (36:26):
I think that's what our charge is
though, guys.
I think that's what our chargeis as seed stock suppliers, is
you're supposed to producesomething that is thriving with
your resources.
I mean, that's why, I say thatVince is next door neighbor is
in a different environment thanVince, so you can't judge him
because if all of a sudden thatfella has some market cornered

(36:48):
on Distiller's grain and anadvantage, that's an advantage
he has.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (36:52):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (36:52):
him build his own program or her own
program.
And the same in California.
You know, some people run cattlein country just as rough as me,
but they got a different set ofresources.
They probably need one that, uh,I was, I was reading an article,
Corbin 1960.
There were these huge, I mean.
You've seen pictures of ourcountry.
It's big and it's wild and it'srough and it's hairy.

(37:12):
There's these great big monstercreep feeders.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (37:16):
In the sixties.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (37:16):
what in the world is those about?
Yeah.
Yeah.
In the sixties, well, they had ahuge, this is a quite a way
south of us, but similartopography.
They had a huge cotton industry,and those guys would get cotton
seed meal and cotton byproducts,and they would go and they would
fill these monster hoppers, likeI'm talking like several semi
big hoppers, and they wouldsupplement cattle.

(37:39):
Was that wrong?
It was an environmentaladvantage that those people had
to harness beef production.
Right, and And that's why Ithink you say develop a clear
path, your clear path, you arethe index maker.
You as the breeder or the indexmaker.
And that index should include,what are my envi environmental
advantages?

(37:59):
What are my environmentaldisadvantages?
What are my labor constraints?
What do I want to do?
What do I have a talent for?
Evaluating, okay, well, I've gota fellow who has a kill plant
and he does this or that.
Well, I probably better reallymake sure these carcass traits
are in order.
Or I'm a backgrounding guy whoneeds to make some long H calves
that go out on two seasons ofgrass.

(38:19):
You know, consider all of thosethings.
And when I made the comment toyou guys, I mean, what a joke
that most people would think ifthey saw most purebred
producers.
They'd either say it's anovergrown four H project, or
it's some sort of recreationallivestock that they have,
because.
You've gotta know what thosefolks are walking and what
they're doing.
They're just producing cattlethat need to be relatively

(38:40):
problem.
No, they're not relatively, theyneed to be problem free and they
need to last a long time.
When you've got an opportunitycost on a heifer calf that's 21,
22, 20$300 right now, you'regonna put a thousand dollars
worth of management costs in toget her to the her calving year.
She better be a good one.
And I don't care what her GeneMax score says.
If she don't work in yourenvironment, she don't work in

(39:03):
your environment.
And that's where I'm seeing someof this nation cow herd rebuild
stuff is guys are going, boy, Iwant to keep heifers, but I
wanna make sure she's the rightkind and sitting at the sale
barn.
You've seen a change inbiological type of cattle
nowadays, and I would need tomake sure that those mother cows
out in country can still do itlike they used to be able to.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (39:22):
Well, you know what I think's really
important too, and somethingthat needs to be said before we,
before we move on from, fromidentifying a clear path, is I
think you gotta look at whatyour customers are and what your
customer's needs are, and youhave to try to make that.
Path from, and that starts fromthe beginning.
That starts from making thecalf, getting it into, so

(39:42):
basically, you know, all threeof us sell bulls.
So whenever I think about this,I think about what type of bulls
my customer wants and what typeof bull my customer, customer
wants is one that's gonna lastlong, one that's gonna make
dollars and one's gonna makesteers that grow.
Um, everything else is, is maybea cherry on top or something
that they're not gonna look at.
You know, when it gets right,when it rolls right down to it,

(40:03):
they're not gonna look at thatfunctional longevity.
EPD, they don't care.
They don't care.
They don't know what that EPDis.
Um, if they open a catalog,they're gonna look at that and
they're gonna say, what is fl?
They're gonna have to Google itand figure out even what it
means.
So I think mirroring yourcowherd to what your customer's
needs are.
And you know what, some of ourcustomers are different too.

(40:25):
Some of us aren't making cattlefor the commercial cow man.
So that definitely makes it verytough.
I mean, that makes it a lotharder for, for like, Vince, I
know you sell a lot of femalesand so.
If your end user isn't acommercial cow guy, how do you,
what do you do in thissituation?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (40:43):
It's not easy.
It's not easy at all.
But the also what you were justsaying, so the guy sees the fl
and he, he Googles it and, oh,what does this mean?
Functional longevity.
So what's he gonna do?
He knows nothing about it.
He's gonna see that that is,that animal is in the top 95
percentile.
So that must mean it's bad Ithat thing's gonna die before I

(41:05):
even get it to the house.
That's how bad its functionallongevity is.
it, it, it could be the furthestfrom the truth.
I know a guy that's got a14-year-old cow that her
functional longevity's in thetop 95 percentile.
It's 14

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (41:22):
How's that not functionally go long.
How's it not?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (41:26):
a calf, nursing her right now at
14 and bred back.
But the functional longevity isbad.
So my point being is somebody'sjust gonna read that, not
understand any kind of contextto go with it.
Oh, that's bad.
I can't buy that cow

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (41:43):
What puts you.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (41:43):
I guess that'd be my prescription for
breeders.
And we did the same thing with,with Feet EPDs when they came
out, because we were part of thedevelopmental trait, the cattle
showed up very favorably.
I said, I'm not putting this inmy sale book as a trait because
I want our customers to knowwe've had this other tool added.
But you can count on the factthat we will continue to pay

(42:05):
attention to this every singleone.
We don't look at feet as acorrective thing.
I don't say I have a cow that'sterrible footed, and so I better
use a bull.
That's a number one.
In order to fix her, we get ridof her or put an egg in her.
That's what we do with her.
And it would be the same withthe ones that don't breed.
But I would, I'll tell yougentlemen, I was shocked.
I was, there was a dispersal,uh, this last year that I asked

(42:29):
for three animals productionrecords.
Not one of them had CAD everysingle year.
So

vince_1_05-25-2025_1612 (42:35):
happens

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (42:36):
use this as a, if you're a pure red
producer, go ahead, use it as atool.
Search it, find out what'sthere, find out what's not.
Look for trends, but be very,very cautious of how you educate
and what you tell your customerson it.
Because if you're breedingCalvin,'em calling them, you're
doing your job.
If you're making'em work, just

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (42:54):
right?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (42:54):
Don't just throw that number in and a
boilerplate ad that comes fromsomeone and explaining the new
trait and how you're all excitedbecause that's gonna put you
right into a box of where you'regoing to have to be selecting
for that trait because yourcustomers are going to demand
it.
Um, I felt like there wassomething else, but Corbin said,
customer needs that I wrotedown.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (43:15):
here's a, here's a silver lining to
that while you're thinking, butso, so the good news is when it
comes, you know, I'm, I'm, I'msorry for going back to the, the
new EPDs, but the silver liningis, is that, you know what, if
you don't wanna put that in yoursale book, you don't have to.
And 95% of the people buying inyour sale, if it's not your sale

(43:35):
book, they're not gonna go lookup the pet pedigree of the cow.
And if they're, you know, whatif someone's sorting and buying
animals based on one or twoEPDs, then it doesn't matter to
me anyways, because I'm probablydon't have what they want
anyways.
It's, it's just, I, it's just.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (43:53):
And I think, I think some seed stock
producers are just as guilty asAAA through the beef bulletin or
anything else.
Like I, I think that some seedstock producers are guilty of
driving their customers towardsnew traits without thinking, you
know, what am I educating themon?
just need to do a better job ofunderstanding them and their
needs and just keep breeding forthat and there'll be a spot for

(44:13):
you.
Just

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (44:14):
And do and, and

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (44:15):
spot

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (44:15):
does the seed stock producer really
understand the trade or are theyjust, it's fine that something
that, that they can do that'seasy and that they excel at.
Maybe, maybe someone's,someone's out there looking at
their EPDs and they're like,Ooh, wow, I'm really good at
functional longevity.
I should market the market that.
But do they really know whatthey're marketing or is it just
more slander and more malarkeyto get something sold?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (44:39):
I, I don't know that they know what
they're marketing, but it's realcool when they can run the ad on
the animal and say it's top 1%or top 10% for 15 traits.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (44:50):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (44:51):
I mean, that, you know.

joe_1_05-25-2025_14 (44:52):
Absolutely.
It's like the cow.
I was joking with you guys andsent all you the number ones.
She's the number six cow out ofthose whole sisters, but she's
all got a number one.
So I wanna sell her, make somemoney off of her.
Promote that, promote thatwithout thinking the unintended
consequences.
You know, I've been reluctant tosay this and, and Robert's
probably gonna disagree with mea little bit and that's okay.

(45:14):
for the amount these guys aregetting for their calves, it is
crazy high that these calves areselling for.
They can afford to invest ingood bulls.
They

vince_1_05-25-2025_ (45:23):
Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (45:24):
can.
of these bulls guys are worth 7,8, 9,$10,000.
Hands down, they could afford topay even more for the rip bulls.
you what, you can't afford amisstep and buy the wrong bulls,
not with the cost of replacementheifers and stuff.
And so I think there's a wholelot of opportunity, especially
for the small breeders wholisten to this podcast, listen

(45:46):
to other podcasts.
They're trying to learn,identify your lane, develop a
relationship with yourcommercial people and breed
cattle that work for them, andthey will pay for that premium.
If the cattle are working,they'll come back and pay that
premium.
at least you hope.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (46:01):
Ooh,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:03):
what,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (46:03):
I take back everything I said
negative about Tet motor scores.
I just looked up one of myfavorite young cows and she's
really excelled.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:10):
See, look at this guy.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (46:13):
I take it all back.
I take it all back.

joe_1_05-25-2025_1411 (46:18):
Corbin's.
Ready for a consignment salenear you.
Look at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (46:21):
Ooh, boy.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:22):
Oh

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (46:22):
My mood just changed.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:25):
Oh, hey.
While Vince is thinking up thenew transition.
'cause we gotta transition intosomething else.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (46:31):
I was trying to figure out what it
was.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:33):
You're gonna find it out.
I got a special announcement forour listeners.
Go click on to David Yak Lee'sHerd Talk.
Our

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (46:39):
Oh, yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (46:40):
from Buck Snort Angus is on there
talking about some of the SouthAfrican stuff.
I don't, I haven't listened toit yet, guys, because I didn't
see it on my deal.
He just linked it to BuzzSprout, which is always a pain
for me to listen to.
But, um, yak Lee talks to Jason.
I've known this story for, wasit four or five years?
We've known Meen, now Vince

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (46:59):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_1411 (47:00):
something like that.
And, and Meen told me thatstory.
I mean, I'm gonna, a Reader'sDigest condensed version is,
that's why he's here.
uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_1612 (47:08):
Meeting or me?
Don.
Me.
Don.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (47:12):
he's your buddy.
And my phone, it says Baden,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (47:14):
It is.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (47:15):
just learned is wrong and I can't

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (47:16):
Let's hear those South.
Let's hear those.
Let's hear those.
It's probably maiden.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (47:21):
No.
Y kept calling him.
Me, Don

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (47:24):
Me don,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (47:25):
me.
Don.
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_14114 (47:27):
anyways, we, it's funny because my social
media has been hijacked by allthis political hyperbole about,
oh, Trump this, or Trump that.
And it's like, no, no, no, no,no.
I mean, let's not get crazyTrump this or Trump that.
I mean, Meen said This is real.
And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (47:43):
Oh

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (47:44):
there

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (47:44):
yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (47:45):
there like he sent me.
I have on my phone video of, ofthese coliseums full of these
rallies of people gonna, andthis is before I even knew it
was a political hot topic forcrying out loud.
Vince, you've known more than Ihave,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (47:58):
Oh, he was, he was sending to me
too.
It is terrible.
He was telling me the other day,he was just telling me, he told
me a little bit about it.
want to press him because youcould tell when I first asked
him, he kind of deflected alittle bit.
And um, but yeah, likeeverybody's house has a eight 10
foot wall around it and on topof that it's electric fence.

(48:22):
And, and like to the, the way hekinda understood it, like double
security doors coming into thehouse and then like you got your
living room and then the hallwaygoing back to bedrooms will have
another security door to buy youa little bit more time if you
need to get out or fight back.
It's crazy.
Craziness.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (48:42):
we'll, we'll link it on our social
media page too to Yak Lee'sHeard Talk.
It's just these boys, uh, Corbinand Vince and then myself.
We, we've been so doggone busythese past two weeks.
That's why we missed arecording.
And it just, Vince is, Vince isbehind on spraying and planting.
Corbin's Tee balling it up,which I've been there and I'm

(49:03):
shipping and so it's been kindof tough.
Corbin, do you find ourtransition bud?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (49:08):
No, I'm still looking at my cow's
EPDs.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (49:11):
So,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (49:11):
still looking.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (49:12):
alright, so did you, so

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (49:14):
I haven't found another one, so I
hate it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (49:16):
did you ever identify a clear path?
Now that you've identified aclear path, how do you stay with
it and when should you everpivot?
If you needed to pivot?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (49:25):
Yes, I've identified a clear path.
My clear fi path is oh fiveseven.
She is top 10% for functionallongevity.
Top 2% for utter and top 10%for, uh, the other one.
Woo.
Let's go.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (49:40):
Okay, good.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (49:43):
Um, think the quickest way to
identify a clear path is tostill be, have our human flaws
and be a man that's trying toimprove things.
And fail.
And fail, and fail,

vince_1_05-25-2025_ (49:56):
Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (49:57):
there's

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (49:58):
then you pivot, right?
That's when you pivot, when youfail.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (50:02):
pivot and you're like, man, maybe I, I
AIed to this bull that had allthis glitz and this glamor and
excitement and all these traits.
And I'd have been better offjust turning out the limp and
cleanup bull just because I needto get stuff bred.
uh, I've learned all thoselessons and we're still, you

(50:24):
know, Jason, me, Don was one ofthe guys who asked me, he asked
me, uh, a couple years ago whenI first met him, he said, how
did you get the confidence touse your owns?
And, um, if I'm ratting him out,and Jason, if you're mad about
that, I'm sorry bud.
Um, but uh, I went to acustomer's place to look at

(50:46):
cattle and his replacementheifers were nicer than mine.
And that's when I said, well,what's he doing different than I
am?
Well, he

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (50:55):
Right,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (50:55):
brewing bulls and I was using the sis of
the brewing bulls.
And so.
That made me identify a realclear path.
And then every time I sit in thesale barn and I see different
kinds of cattle selling, um,that helps me when I go and see
commercial customers that arehappy, uh, that galvanizes me

(51:15):
when I see a commercial customersay, Hey, we got, we were off
the market a little because wedidn't have the Angus GMS score
for feedlot score or beef score.
I will consider, do I need topivot?
And then I ultimately always endup coming back to, well, that's
not really what we do.
If you need to make that shiftfor that number, there's
probably someone who could do abetter job for you than I can,

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (51:38):
right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (51:38):
I just kind of stay in my lane and
doing my thing.
What, what do you do, Vince?
Or what do you think?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (51:44):
I mean, you guys gave me
confidence to have faith in myown bulls, but I.
all started with, I'm, I'mevaluating my bulls against, um,
my AI stuff, and it's very hardto do because there's a age gap.

(52:05):
But you know, when you, whenyour AI and assembles that may
not work for you the way thatthey should have or the way that
you thought they did or shouldhave.
Um, and then your ca yournatural calves outta your herd
sis are equally or as good orbetter, um, are equally as good

(52:26):
as some really good bulls that,you know, A is a good bulls B,
everybody's using them.
See, people want'em.
Um, and then your herd bulls,are as good.
Like it, it's, it's eyeopening,but it's hard to do if you have
a.

(52:48):
Just a handful of cows.
It's very hard to do with that.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (52:52):
I think the key to, to moving
forward with anyone's program ishaving introspection and being
able to be real with yourselfand, uh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (53:03):
the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (53:03):
If you're looking at EPDs on
something, and it really does,you know, so, so you're looking
at, you're looking at functionallongevity and your cow's in the
top 95th percentile, and thenyou have to look yourself in the
mirror and say, she's there fora reason.
Do I, do I stick my heels in themud?

(53:23):
Or, or maybe you've got onethat's in the top 1% for teat
and utter and the top 1% for,for functional longevity, but
that cow's not the cow.
And you know, that, you know,you know, she's been open twice.
Um, it doesn't matter what thatEPD says.
You have to be introspective andbe critical of your own cow herd
enough to move forward, to callthat cow and be done with her.

(53:48):
You have to have thatdiscipline, and that's, that's
really hard sometimes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (53:53):
It is, it is very hard.
And honestly, you know, there'sa lot of times that, I mean, a
lot of our conversations are,you know, in my barn blind,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (54:03):
Mm-hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (54:04):
and that's a real deal.
Like, you think it's, um, yougot something really happening
good for you, and then you mightgo visit a friend or, or go
visit a neighbor or whatever,and you're like, well, golly,
these things are way better thanmine or vice versa.

(54:24):
but it, it's real hard and it todo, and it's so very easy to
say, well, you know, that didn'traise the best calf this year.
Uh, oh, well, she was a heifer.
It was her first calf.
We'll give her, we'll give her apass.
Or, well, man, that thing is a.
a, that's, that's a foreverlady.

(54:45):
I don't have very many, manyforever ladies left.
So

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (54:48):
I gotta keep her because she's a
forever lady.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (54:50):
I gotta keep her because she's a
forever lady or that thing's,the one of two cows that I got
that's in the top 1% for somecockie, EPD, uh, so we gotta
give her a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (55:02):
hey, I got a flusher because I paid
30,000 for,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (55:06):
Hey, I got a flusher'cause I paid

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (55:08):
you know, I mean, this is, it's,
it's,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (55:09):
a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (55:09):
it's the same old adage that we deal
with in every facet of thisbusiness.
The seed sock side.
It's like you're getting pushed,pulled in so many different
directions that are not thedirection you need to be pushed
and pulled in.
Um,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (55:22):
So is

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (55:23):
Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (55:23):
it's easier, Vince, for your
commercial cows to be betterbecause all they are is all they
are?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (55:30):
Yep.
I don't put a

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (55:31):
yeah, it's awesome.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (55:33):
good bulls, good bulls on them.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (55:35):
And right now, right now, I, those
150 commercial cows that I stillgot over there, they're gonna
make me a pretty penny rightnow.
So I'm, I'm tickled pink withthem.
I'm thrilled.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (55:51):
I don't know.
I don't know.
Every time I get discouragedthough, you guys do a good job
of pumping me back up.
Like.
know.
I'm, I'm excited.
I'm really, really excitedbecause what I go out there and
see, I like,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (56:06):
Yes, yes,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (56:08):
Vince Minson mentioned barn blindness.
I wanted to unpack that a littlebecause I, I try to stay very
introspective.
but I do think for some of ournewer listeners really do a good
job of trying to out managementtoo, because there are a lot of
places you can go where you'reseeing a lot of management

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (56:31):
yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (56:34):
you go, gosh, you get down on yourself
and you're like, man, these,none of these look like his
worst cow, or her worst cowlooks way better.
go and really figure out whatthe management looks like.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (56:46):
look around.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (56:47):
there are people that manage these
things to the nines guys.
And I'm not talking about justmaking sure there's feed in
front of them.
I'm talking about managing everysingle portion of that animal's
life.
And for me, I've found thatwhenever I use those genes and
put them into my scenario, neverlook the same as they do at
their operation.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (57:08):
Correct.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (57:09):
um, there's some, there's some
pieces.
There's some pieces for sure.
Um, and to Vince's point, youknow, and I'm gonna throw you
under the bus, Vince, but Vincecalled me early on, uh, um, when
we're involved in a podcastseveral years ago, and he, he
was like, Hey, we gotta becareful with some of these young
people.
'cause if we empower'em toomuch, they might need to
improve.

(57:29):
What do you think about that?
And I said, well, I start seeingpictures from people too.
And I'm like, don't get barnblind.
I mean that prescription ofempower yourself, uh, use your
own stuff.
You have to have the rightdisposition for that too.
You have to be a person that'svery self-critical.
You have to be a person that'syour worst critic.

(57:50):
Um, and or your program willprobably suffer.
So if you know you don't havethat ailment and you're very
positive of your own cattle andfrustrated with everyone else's,
maybe find a friend that youtrust who can come along and
say, Hey, I'll come look atthese cows and let you know, un
unbiased opinion of what I thinkone way or another.
And, and I always have that someof my customers help me move

(58:12):
these cows when we're driving upfrom lower range and they say,
well, I like this cow.
I don't like this cow.
Why?
You know, stuff like that.
And

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (58:19):
Right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (58:20):
been really useful to me guys.
And, um, even on the tours andstuff, these folks will pick up
on different cattle that aremore of a reflection of what
they're trying to do and theuniqueness of what they're
trying to do.
Um, and that's where I reallysee the value out of the tours,
to be honest, I.

vince_1_05-25-2025_ (58:36):
Absolutely.
I, speaking of tours, I had areally, really good tour with a
guy from a couple from

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (58:48):
That's awesome.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (58:50):
It was really awesome.
Uh, Adam, I got a, I don't wannamess up his last name, I'm sure
I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (58:58):
it's gotta be mixed something, right?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:01):
No,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (59:02):
O' Neil.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:04):
no, no.
It wasn't, that's what, that'swhat screwed me up.
Um, dadgummit,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (59:10):
What's funny is we don't have to worry
about them being offended bystereotypes, names,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:17):
I'm assuming it's.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (59:20):
armor,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:21):
Um, it, it's, yeah, that's kind of
what I thought it

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (59:25):
or do you roll the R.
Armor?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:26):
his,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (59:27):
Armor.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (59:28):
Mm-hmm.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (59:29):
No

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:29):
it was o it was O-U-R-A-R-M-O-U-R.
So would that be Armour

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (59:33):
Armor.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:35):
or would it just be Armor?

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (59:36):
Armor, but can you, uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:39):
I trying to make more

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (59:40):
what?
Yeah, what did the, can you, canyou talk in his accent for me?
'cause that might help me

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (59:45):
no.
It was thick.
Like I had to get him to repeathimself.
A couple,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (59:49):
meat on thick.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161 (59:50):
maiden.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (59:51):
thicker.
He even went to, he went tovisit meeting too.
no.
Uh, Kathy and Adam, they werereally cool.
Um, it was really neat to see, Iguess, my cattle through their
eyes.
they, they also had, um, I thinkhe, I think that she said door

(01:00:13):
Pitts the sheep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:00:15):
doper.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:15):
the

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:00:16):
Oh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:16):
Um, she said they were gonna
transition from the sheep justto all cattle.
They had just gotten married andthey just got a nice little
farm.
And, um, he had some cattle withhis dad.
And, um, but it, it, it wasreally, really neat just to,
even, even the difference in howthey describe the cattle,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:00:38):
Sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:39):
like he was talking about this cattle
has a good carcass,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:00:45):
Oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:45):
we think carcass,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:00:47):
like depth and width and,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:49):
yes, the mass, the actual mass of the
animal.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:00:53):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:54):
Um, so like, it was,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:00:56):
She'd feed a lot of buzzers if she
died.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:00:58):
and I was really thankful that they
came by.
Um, it, it was.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:02):
did you feel like your type was useful
to them or they liked the moremuscular, high yielding,
stereotypical kind of Europeancattle.
I'm curious.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:15):
Um, they like frame, they like some
frame, they like a cow with somedepth, but not too much depth.
Um, when they saw 70 22, he waslike, yeah, that cow's got way
too much belly for us.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:29):
Did you say waste probably or something?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:32):
Mm.
I don't know.
He never really said why,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:35):
Uhhuh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:36):
um, he just said she had too much

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:40):
Mm-hmm.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:40):
Um, so that was kind of neat to
that, you know, that they justhave a different way to see'em,
you know?
Um, yeah, it was, it was really,really neat.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:52):
Did

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:53):
So,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:01:53):
did he relate to you at all how they
use genetics there?
Like are they using a

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:01:58):
dude, they're using old stuff

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:02):
Okay.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:03):
like.
Emulation, 30 ones, granddaddy,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:07):
Ooh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:09):
you know, like old stuff,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:02:12):
oh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:13):
old,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:02:13):
oh.

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (01:02:14):
stuff.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:15):
Are they

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:16):
So

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:17):
purpose or is that all they have

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:18):
I don't know, he didn't know about
a lot of the new genetics.
He'd heard of a few bulls, ofcourse, you know, he'd heard of
America.
Uh, I'd say the, because of hisprice tag and he was the high
selling bull or whatever, blah,blah, blah.
he put together, legions, wentback to America because of
Anthem.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:37):
Sure.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:38):
He kind of put that back together.
Um, yeah, he wouldn't know a lotof our pedigrees.
So he was just here evaluatingcattle, which was awesome

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:02:47):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:47):
They

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:48):
not,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:02:48):
to evaluate cattle.
I.
In the

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:02:51):
were, they came to Nashville like on a
honeymoon.
went to Nashville for the rodeoand wanted to get outta, they'd
spent two or three days in thecity, wanted to get outta the
city.
He'd asked a long time ago if hecould come.
I said, sure.
And then, he went on over,wanted to know something else he
could do.
So he went over to visit, um,buck Snort while they were here.

(01:03:13):
Him and his, him and his wife.
And they just had a good time.
And I need to follow up with'emto see if they made it back
home.
I, I wasn't real sure when theywere leaving to go home, but,
uh, good, good

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:03:24):
He heard us on here.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:03:25):
Is that how they got a hold of you or
No.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (01:03:28):
Facebook Messenger.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:03:30):
Okay,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:03:30):
bet there were podcast listeners.
Huh?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:33):
No,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:03:33):
Oh

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:34):
clue.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:03:35):
huh.
You're just famous.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:36):
And, and like I, I, I asked him,
well, I asked him how they cameup and he said, our American
Angus Journal.
Well, I haven't run a freakingad in the journal in 12 years.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:03:46):
Right.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161 (01:03:47):
getting?
The, the,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:03:48):
They don't get'em very quick down
there.
It takes'em a while.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:52):
So,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:03:53):
Takes 'em a while to get there.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:55):
yeah, it was, it was pretty, it was
pretty

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:03:58):
Yeah.
They,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:03:59):
and Kathy Armor.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:04:02):
send, uh

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:02):
tour season here is just getting
ready to crank up.
I'll have some next month.
we have two dinners coming up onthe seventh and the 14th.
I donated, uh, these farm tourslash dinners to

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:04:17):
Oh yeah, I remember that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:18):
farm bureau

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:04:19):
Oh, that's cool.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:21):
One of my bull customers bought one.
Amelia was contending, bidder onone, and then the other one, um,
a different telephone companybought or something.
And so we're gonna have fun withthat.
We'll have some cattle there andfeed him some brewing beef and,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:04:36):
are y'all gonna cook?
What are you gonna cook?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:39):
I don't know.
That's Dave Fisher's department.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:04:41):
Dave,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:41):
me.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:04:42):
Dave's gonna cook.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:04:44):
he's coming.
Um, my cousin Mark, well hiscousin.
So they're all, I've never gotinto this with you guys, but I
call my cousins very, very closewith Mark and Matt.
Those are the ones that I was inIdaho with delivering those
colts this last week.
Um, and they're actually, mydad's like second cousins, but

(01:05:05):
we're all kind of raised aroundthe same spot and spent a lot of
time together,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161 (01:05:08):
they're friend, they're friends as much
as anything too.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:05:11):
Oh, absolutely.
Like, I mean, they're theclosest family I got to be
honest with you.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:05:19):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:05:19):
Closer than people that were closer
blood, if that would

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:05:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Do you guys wanna know, um, someinsight into what has worked
well here?
Whew.
That's seven and seven protocol.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:05:32):
It

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:05:32):
It works.
It works really good.
It works really good.
We had, uh, so we're, we'restill putting embryos in here
and, um.
That's probably the bestresponse I've ever had.
Now, granted, we've had a goodspring.
Um, our cattle have been coldover the last three years, so we
base, we've got good ones leftand everything else is gone.

(01:05:54):
Um, and fertility is, is been atthe top of the list for sure
over the past three years.
Um, so we've got a fertile setof cows, but, but 36 out of 42,
responding to a seven and sevenprotocol.
I'm just tickled pink with that.
I think that's, that's reallygood.
Um, we'll put those embryos innext week.
And I'm, I'm

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:13):
did

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:06:13):
fired up.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:14):
cows that way too,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:15):
Uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:16):
did you AI

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:17):
we only AIed a few and we did them
early, but now I just put themon a seven day and, and as few
as I had, I will say if I everdo get serious about AI in a big
set of cows, seven and seven isgoing to be a godsend.
I mean, it's gonna be, it, it,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:34):
do'em all at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:35):
it is a pain in the butt though.
I mean.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:37):
cows,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:38):
I do understand

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:39):
do'em all at

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:06:40):
extra time through the shoot.
It's kind of daunting.
Um,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:44):
Yeah, but it's not,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:45):
but it is, it is a pain I'll be
honest.
It is.
I gotta get'em in a week beforeI was going to, and then I gotta
run'em in an extra time.
I'm by my, it's a pain it'sworth it.
It's worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:55):
it being, yeah, but that's what I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:06:57):
And it's worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:06:58):
it.
So how big a problem is it touse a, a seven day and you only,
you're you, you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:05):
It ain't worth it sometimes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:07):
to

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:07:07):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:08):
but you only get 50% heats,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:10):
So it ain't as worth it.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:11):
so that's even

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:12):
Yep.
Yeah, if we're gonna do it, ifwe're gonna do it, I'd much
rather take the extra time andand do it the correct way.
'cause it's gonna be,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:07:20):
So, Vince, when you're AIing off of
it, are you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:25):
you could almost prime read them at
that point.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:28):
God no.
You ain't gonna catch me.
Time breeding.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:07:31):
See, I think I, I did the same as you.
I watched heats and I think, Idon't know.
I need to get the actual dataonce

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:39):
You might could.
They're so tight.
I think you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:42):
I think,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:07:43):
Oh, you're synchronizing ovulation.
You aren't synchronizing heat.
And so I wonder if on thesereally awesome protocols, if
we're doing more harm watch andheats,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:07:54):
yeah,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:07:55):
I don't know.
But I'm not gonna thaw the unitof semen if I don't have a cow.
Outstanding.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:07:59):
do.
I mean, you know what we saythat.
Okay, but every single year,what did he say?
Say that again.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:08:08):
I said, well, that$2 Legion Siemens
expensive, and, and thosequarter CC Fellow straws them
are expensive too.
Since I

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:08:16):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:08:17):
like 30 and made you pay half price for

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:08:20):
It's hard to get, it's hard to, it's,
yeah.
We've, we've, we, we don't haveany semen that in our tanks, you
know, they're pretty empty.
But, uh, no, I think it'sinteresting.
To think about because if wecould breed'em all at one time,
it sure would make breeding aset of 50 a lot easier than, I
mean Yeah.

(01:08:40):
If I was gonna breed'em, I gottacatch'em again.
So in the wintertime that'seasy, but in the summertime, if
I'm, if I'm not time breeding, Igotta, I gotta gather'em up and
they don't want to come in.
They're not coming to feedanymore.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:08:53):
here's what I'm wondering, Corbin.
I'm gonna commission someuniversity to do this, a
head-to-head study on it itwould almost be worth it for me
to time breed'em all.
But the.
The early reds hit and breedthem twice

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:09:08):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:09:09):
the silvers keep around and hit them
later

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:09:12):
Yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:09:13):
or something.
I, I mean, because I actually, Ithink I didn't get as good of
conception response on my sevenand seven last fall because I
was watching heats rather than Ishould have just bred'em all,
bred'em all, GnRH'em, let itroll

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:09:27):
breed a lot of, I, I have a lot of
cows that take AI that way.
It's, it's uncanny.
And then how many times are yourunning Reese sips through?
And you're like, well, shedidn't really have a heat that I
saw.
And then she'll have a CL andshe'll take an embryo.
So it's like, obviously it's notdirectly correlated.
Of course we want to see theheat, of course we wanna see

(01:09:47):
that.
But at the end of the day, ifthe cow ovulates and takes the
pregnancy, we're manipulating itanyways.
You might as well put thatpregnancy in there.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:09:56):
So, so Robert's gonna be mad at me
because he told me it wasn'tgonna work and it worked.
I wonder if my on my heiferprotocol, I'm wondering what it
would do for cows.
I did that 30 day deal where youcedar'em for two weeks, no
drugs.
You pull the cedar, chuck it,then wait on day 30 you give'em

(01:10:18):
a shot estimate.
That's it.
And all my heats are within twodays.
And like it's just so nice tonot have all that extra drugs
and all that extra everything.
And I'm wondering if that wouldbe successful on

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:10:38):
So basically it's just the, uh,
just the seven and seven withoutthe GNR, without the, uh,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:10:44):
no you

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:10:45):
cella.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:10:46):
'em, day one, no shot cedar on day
one with no

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:10:49):
Oh, you don't give'em luli on day
one either.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:10:51):
you pull the cedar on day 14, no
shot, nothing.
You just pull'em on.
Day 30 you give'em a shot ofestimator, a shot of

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:11:01):
I guess the the consensus is, is
that if you have that cedar inthere for 14 days, you jerk it.
They're gonna cycle within thenext three or four days.
And then 10 days later theyshould be reset.
I will also wonder if you couldeven, you could, I know without
a shadow of a doubt, you couldeven spread that out further.
You could, instead of doing it10 days later, you could do it
14 days later and you might evenpick up a couple more.

(01:11:23):
That cycled a little late.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:11:25):
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I don't have issues likemy cows are cycling, my heifers,
recycling.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:11:31):
And I think management.
Management too.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:11:35):
you might have one or two out of 40,
but that's such a minute deal.
Just watch'em and if they don'tshow heat 10 days after that,
hit'em

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:11:45):
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:11:47):
like I'm having good success.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:11:49):
my grade.
Uncles that had old, oldprotocols in it that talked
about like chin chalk ballmarkers on

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:11:56):
Oh yes.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:11:58):
Those are awesome.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:11:59):
No, they aren't

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:00):
know what, man, if we

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:12:02):
You.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:02):
out a heifer bowl that we really,
really liked, turn out thatheifer bowl.
And then it's like three dayslater you come, you pull him and
you utilize everything.
It won't affect the ones that he

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:12:15):
Right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:16):
three

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:12:16):
Yep.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:17):
and then you just AI them all to him
and then turn him back out.
I, I wonder if protocols likethat, I mean, I don't know.
I guess

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (01:12:27):
That's crazy,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:12:28):
Boy, I tell you what

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:29):
we could

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:12:30):
I get,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:30):
in the shortest amount of time is what
I want to do.
'cause

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (01:12:33):
right?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:12:34):
want to be watching heats and breeding.
It's like, Vince, you're, you'replanting, you're spraying,
you're doing all this stuff.
Corbin, you're doing a milliondifferent things with Myla
attached to you sometimes, andsometimes you gotta get her to
school.
And, and then me, you know, I'm,I'm spread way thin too, and I'm
trying to figure out how we canhave the most impact in the
least amount of time.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:12:54):
right, exactly.
But I can tell you, Joe, giventhat shot of Luli three days
after those cows had, that wouldmake me, that would make me so
nervous, like that would make mecrazy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:07):
It is not gonna

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:13:08):
I know, but the idea of it makes
me crazy.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:13:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:13):
we used to use a protocol where you
just watch'em for five days andbred any, anything that came in.
And then on day five you give'ema shot of Luke and it something
about all that time.
And, um, that shot of loot wouldmake the ones don't, don't shoot
the ones you already bred,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:13:31):
Right?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:32):
the ones that never showed a heat
that you haven't bred on.
Give them a shot of loot.
It

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:13:37):
Do you wanna know my favorite?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:13:38):
how about this?
Have, have either of you usedany of them programs?
Have you tried any,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:43):
What?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:13:44):
the Heat Watch or cow sense

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:47):
Oh no, we, do you remember?
Um, yeah.
What was it?
Was it heat?
Watch the old one.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:13:55):
was the original one that had like

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:13:56):
Yeah, I've got, I still got it.
Oh, I still got'em.
The transmitters are my desk.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:01):
it like rip off their whole hide

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:02):
Oh yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:03):
it off and they,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:04):
Oh yeah.
It was terrible.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:07):
No,

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:07):
was terrible.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:08):
I wonder if we should have some
specialists give us some insighton that because I know TJ
Gabriel's been using it and it'slike 30 bucks and his conception
rate has gone nuts.
The

vince_1_05-25-2025_1612 (01:14:19):
Really?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:20):
Oh yeah.
He

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:21):
bucks

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:23):
but it's disposable.
That's the problem.
You gotta, you can't reuse'em, Idon't think.
And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:28):
that Cedar's.
15 bucks.
It's disposable.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:30):
Well, I know, and that's what I was
thinking where I was like, man,I might be interested in trying
this.
The, the problem I sent TJ is Isaid, what percentage are you
breeding between 10 at night andtwo in the morning?
And he said, you'd be shockedhow many, like a lot.
And

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:14:46):
I'm not doing that.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:47):
I don't want to get into that either.
I don't want to get into that atall.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:14:51):
Do you know?
Do you know who would breedthem?

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:14:53):
you missed them, turn, turn a bull
in with

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:14:55):
Do you know who would breed'em?
Between 10 and midnight.
10 and two.
A bull.
A bull.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:15:01):
Oh,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:15:01):
A bull.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:02):
both.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:15:03):
Yeah.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:15:03):
love turning out a.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:15:04):
do it on donors.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:15:06):
love turning out a good bull.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:09):
Well, if I knew that, like some of
these results TJ's given me like85, 90% these crazy high
results, if I knew I was gonnado that and I had a slug of
them, yeah, I'd go set the alarmand go down and breathe that
heifer at that

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (01:15:22):
Right,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:23):
knew it was right, just so I didn't have
to do it again or something

vince_1_05-25-2025_16120 (01:15:27):
right.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:27):
though.
Anyways, we covered a lot ofground today, but we haven't
been together for a while.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:15:33):
think we had a lot to say.
I think we each had a lot, a lotof things that we've been doing,
so, yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:37):
Corbin, wait, we've got a,

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:15:41):
Yeah.
We forgot the commercial.
Forgot the commercial.
Hold on, gimme a second.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:15:46):
Do it again.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:15:46):
Do that sound again.
Do the sound again.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:50):
I've done it twice.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:15:52):
time.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:15:53):
No, Amy's gonna do it.
Amy's gonna do it.

korbin_1_05-25-2025 (01:15:56):
Introducing one 800 bovine match the
ultimate calculator.
Tired of trudging through muddyfields, making awkward eye
contact with bulls and flippingthrough breeding charts thicker
than your mother-in-law'slasagna recipe.
Now you don't have to.
Just our one 800 bovine match,the only hotline that takes in

(01:16:17):
every breeding CRI criterion,milk yield, temperament, scrotal
circumference, and even the newand perfected feet.
Tet and utter scores.
Why break a sweat?
Evaluating expected progenydifferences.
We've got AI for that genomicscores already sorted.
Pedigree compatibility.

(01:16:37):
We have Avoid inbreeding like avegan.
Avoid steak.
Whether you wanna maximize meatmilk like a machine, or just
make the next bovine supermodel,we've got a match for that
operator standing by.
Probably also ai.
So put your boots up, pour aglass of raw milk, and let one
800 bovine match.
Read your herd smarter, notharder.

(01:16:59):
One 800 bovine match.
Where the only thingartificially intelligent is
everything.
Not responsible for lovetriangles, genetic anomalies, or
overly handsome calves,

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:17:11):
Overly

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:17:12):
overly handsome, functionally long
calves.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:17:18):
Oh, that's something, man.
You know, all that stuff though.
It's like it's gonna swing, thependulum's gonna swing and it's
gonna swing again, and it'sgonna keep swinging.
And the programs that are herefor the long haul will still be
here for the long haul.
And the ones who are.
to fill some other hole insideof'em will still be trying to

(01:17:38):
fill some other hole inside ofthem.
I mean, every time somethinglike this comes out, I used to
get really, really frustratedand hopefully this podcast, I
didn't sound fired up.
Like just look at it as there'sa little bit more noise and it
just further galvanizes me andstaying committed to what I'm
doing and my, what Vince say,call it a on my clear path.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_16114 (01:17:58):
Yeah, my clear path.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:18:00):
path.

korbin_1_05-25-2025_161147 (01:18:00):
Uh, essentially, essentially, yeah,
just, just stay the course.
People just keep doing whatyou're doing, this new stuff.
It means so little.
At the end of the day, it meansnothing.
It means nothing.
It's not going to make yourworld better.
It's not gonna make your worldchange.
I'm sorry, I I, I'm glad thatsome of you might have found

(01:18:21):
some anomalies and some outliersthat are really high on some of
these traits.
It's not gonna make your cowherd better at the end of the
day.
Hopefully it becomes a tool thatwe can use for the long run.
But who knows?
I.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:18:34):
Oh, God bless Chevy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:18:36):
Shout out Chevy baby.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:18:39):
Oh, we ready to wrap this thing up?

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:18:41):
Oh yeah.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:18:42):
Hey, and wrap.
Last

korbin_1_05-25-2025_1611 (01:18:43):
Chevy.
Oh, Chevy.
I saw your text.

joe_1_05-25-2025_141144 (01:18:46):
another plug though.
Seriously, thank you.
To our listeners, thanks forstaying with us.
Uh, look up the herd report onthat special from, um, Jason
Meen and David Yak.
Very important humanitarianstuff.
And, uh, Vince, go ahead andclose us out buddy.

vince_1_05-25-2025_161206 (01:19:04):
been so long.
I don't even remember what, oh.
Where you at?
Tumor.
Take us out.
Catch y'all next time.
We will see you next time aroundthe shoot.