Healthy or Hefty? Finding the Perfect Weight

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This episode features a conversation around the topic of bull and heifer development, emphasizing the challenges of balancing adequate nutrition without overfeeding or underfeeding. The hosts discuss the nuances of seed stock production and the essential role of knowing one's breeders and producers. They also touch on effective marketing strategies, customer engagement, and the importance of maintaining ethical cattle breeding practices. 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Take it for a second.

(00:01):
Welcome.
Welcome to around the shoot.
Daddy needs some new sludge.
He sends the meatloaf.
Ma Joe screams out for, get mymeatloaf, Joe.
Just like his empty, his coffeecup's empty.
Just starts screaming.
Yeah, just starts losing hisshit.
Holy crap.
He's like, Meredith, get inhere.

(00:23):
I'm thirsty.
I'm not thirsty.
I'm, my body's cold.
My body's needs one.
I be, I'm freaking sweating.
Amy bumped it up to 64 degreesback here and I'm sweating.
Do you want to know the amountof chill bumps I would have.
It was 64 in here right now.
64.
64.
That's four.
That's hoodie weather.
That's hoodie.

(00:44):
Maybe not when the air ain'tmoving.
Dude.
Corbin it's hoodie with over theball.
It's no longer cowboy hatweather at that point.
It's hoodie over the head with acoat over the hood.
A coat, ature ain.
And Vince, Vince isn't evenwearing a shirt right now.
I know y'all can't see him.
He's, and he's sweating.

(01:05):
He's really, and he's actuallyreally white under his shirt.
And you know what, there's stilla shady brick logo, even though
there's not a shirt there andthere's a pocket look at the
pocket.
I never mentioned, I never, Idon't think our listeners
realize how chiseled you areeither.
Oh yeah.
When you go to the dictionaryand look at Chisel, and you'll

(01:27):
see a picture of me, have youseen those deals there, guys?
Like tape a barbecue grate totheir stomach, like, leave it
there, take it off.
I guess if you taped it long orif it was dirty enough, it would
leave a mark.
Oh, why?
Why are we talking about the, Idon't know.
It is not on the topics wediscussed.
Yeah.
So, all right, here to ourlisteners, I'm presenting a

(01:51):
challenge to one of our, one ofour co-hosts for this whole
episode.
For the whole episode.
So last week I felt like, um,there was a, there was a two
word phrase that we, that wekind of harped on last week.
What was that two word phrase,Vince?
R five M, that is not it.
Uh, brewing Ranch.

(02:12):
I believe it was Brewing Ranch.
So the challenge actually, wasit not a four word at here at
Brewing Ranch?
Here at the Brewing Ranch.
So the challenge on the tableshould you choose to accept is
no mention of Brewing Ranch forthe entire episode.
Do you accept this challenge?

(02:33):
Not you, Vince.
Joe.
Joe, the challenge is for you.
I'm offended.
So what we're gonna, what'sgonna happen, well the is from
California.
What's gonna happen is we'regonna try to trigger, like bait
you into saying it.
So thank you Meredith forbrewing me a fresh cup of coffee
brewing me in the microwave.
Uh, thanks for getting that oldstuff that should have been

(02:57):
dumped out and putting it in themicrowave for me.
Yeah, I don't care.
I'm so addicted.
I'll drink it.
Yeah, I don't know what that'sabout.
Can't get past it, so.
So what are we supposed to talkabout today?
Do y'all remember?
I don't know.
I thought we were, listen, whatabout the CMAs?
I'm sorry Joe.
I was gonna tell you what'sgoing on here at Auburn,

(03:19):
California.
Didn't ask you would gonna getthis podcast, you could get this
podcast.
Didn't even, do you everremember that from Draymond?
No.
Anyways, no CMAs.
What do you wanna talk about onthe CMAs?
Did y'all watch the CMAs?
No.
Vince, I did not.
I generally don't watch'em, butI put on night, I did watch

(03:42):
Landman.
I put it on last night as a joketo see if Nate would ever say
anything.
But when then we got to watchingLainey Wilson singing and we
just kept watching and it was,she was good.
I watched her part on, on theinterview.
Yeah, but what about Billy RayCyrus and why is Liz Hurley with
him?

(04:03):
Wait, Liz Hurley, likeAerosmith's, Liz Hurley?
No, no.
Like Elizabeth Hurley from theBritish.
The original Austin Powers, theBritish Chick.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She was also in, um, she playedthe Devil in some movie with, uh

(04:25):
oh, what's his name?
That's, is that something youever want on your resume?
Well, I played the devil.
Yes.
Well, she was, she was a prettygood devil.
I can't remember.
She was in, she's been in quitea few things.
She's been, yeah, she's been ina lot of stuff.
She's 60 years old.
Oh.
She looks like she's 40.
She's, and she's with Billy RayCyrus, who looks like, yeah.

(04:45):
A dork.
And he come out there and he waslike, I, I would like to really
present a reward for, I mean,like, he must have polyps in his
throat or something.
I don't know.
But polyps, he sounded terrible.
Polyps, you know, some of those,they get to some of those.
You can remove'em with atoothpick.
Maybe we need to ask.
Just get him sit.
Lean back.
Lean back.
We're removing those polypsoutta your throat there, Al.

(05:09):
How do you, um, whoa.
Do we have to, do I have to goback to AI generated
disclaimers?
Oh, we haven't, we haven't donethat.
We need one.
I need one that says we are nothealth professionals.
We do not consult Corbin for anysort of medical advice.
Do, do, do on our topic.
Go do one real quick on ourtopic and let Corbin read it.

(05:30):
So what is the prompt?
The prompt is generate a fakecommercial for a non-top on a
podcast.
Because I don't know that wehave a topic.
Do we?
We don't have a topic.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Do you want me to pause it?
No, no, no.
I'll think about how many timesI was gonna say a certain two
word phrase and you guys justchop it up.
I'll, that's the whole podcast.

(05:51):
The whole podcast today is we'regonna talk brew and ranch, all
things brew and ranch, as if youguys didn't get enough of that
last week anyway.
What about landman?
Let's talk Landman.
Landman.
What'd you think of thatepisode?
Joe said they were just settingit up.
I thought it was, I thinkthey're just setting it up.
Yeah.

(06:11):
It was criminally boring.
Well, they had to introduce hisdad.
They had to, they had to showyou that the, the, the son was
doing good.
Now all hell's gonna break loosefor the son.
And they had to, they had to dothis throwing the spaghetti
scene.
I mean, yeah, that was stupid.

(06:32):
Well, she's trying to buy ahouse when she's menstruating
and he told her not to.
Have you seen she used startthrowing spaghetti that happens?
No, she did not start throwing,throwing spaghetti.
She started throwing plates fullof spaghetti.
And I'm also really surprisedthat no one has mentioned the
school that the daughter wentto.

(06:53):
How Aboutt CU Come on.
Yeah, I How about that?
Little shout out As soon as soonas I saw that I said that Corbin
is going to be fired up.
Yeah.
You think that's gonna, uh,improve our sports teams?
No.
Uh, therefore I do not get, buton the good news is, um, she's
going there because she can havea relationship with a football

(07:16):
player.
Yeah.
Did you know that she's actually28 now?
I don't know.
She still looks like she's 12.
I think she looks older than 18.
Do you think?
So Joe, I think it's amazing howwe haven't done a satirical ad
read and what is the word that'sbeen in every single one of

(07:37):
these?
I don't even remember.
Exponentially or something.
Exponential Avocado.
Intense avocado.
Intense baby.
It's existential.
And it's in this one, is it?
I just sent it to you, Corbin.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I thought I was, I was alittle disappointed.
But I wonder if, uh, call inwith your It'll be good.

(07:58):
It'll be good though.
Yeah.
Call in with your, uh,cinematography.
Cinematography.
I don't know.
I'll make the word up.
Uh, cinema hot takes.
I think Tyler Sheridan hasfigured out how to make these
shows climax at the end.
So you want the next seasonrather than, rather than reach

(08:21):
their maximum.
In the middle or something.
That that episode was not, itwasn't, I didn't, I had a hard
time finding it Interesting too.
No, it was boring.
It was very boring.
It was boring.
I, it was weird.
I, I don't know.
Maybe it's all gonna be set up.
You know, you've got newstorylines.
Everything's kind of new andfresh for the new season of the
show.

(08:42):
Um, so it just, Sam Elliotstarts over.
I think That's cool.
Sam Elliot being in there isgonna be fun.
Cool.
That cool.
Looks like, I don't know if itwas just that episode or not,
but Demi Moore may be steppingup to take a bigger role in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you want, like, so it's, it'skind of funny that the mom and
the daughter spent time at thenursing home and the whole time.

(09:03):
And the whole time the dad'sbeen in one.
What about, why didn't they goto see him?
What about the interview thedaughter had?
Oh.
Oh my gosh.
And that woman hated her.
Yeah.
Amy's sitting there saying.
Her mother's gonna whip herbutt.
Mm-hmm.
Actually, you know what Amy wassaying?

(09:23):
I guarantee she was saying thissounds like all the parts I edit
out of around the shoot.
Yeah.
In one seed.
This sounds like Yeah,absolutely.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But you don't know.
You don't know what, what oldfolks home he's in.
It might be way far away.
That's fair.
He could be, I'll be interestedto figure out where he is at.

(09:45):
Well, they gonna drive eighthours every day to see him and
take him out to a strip club andthen drive eight hours home and
then turn around and drive eighthours back.
Come on, Joe.
That's not realistic.
Well, apparently what's gonnahappen, I also don't think he
looks incredibly debilitated.
I think he's got some mentalstuff.
Absolutely.
Well, he was talking to the son.
It's his old friend.
Yeah.

(10:06):
Which I could not SON, not SON.
The S-U-N-S-U-N.
I know, and I could, I, I canrelate to that.
I like the son.
We're friends.
Yeah, I don't like the sun.
I prefer the moon.
There's hotlines for that.
I prefer the moon, the red moonor a half moon or a quarter
moon, or the little fingernailmoon.
Which, which Moon Corbin do youwant?

(10:28):
Do you wanna know something?
Cool.
Listen, can we tell, hang on.
Go ahead, Corbin.
It's rained 1.34 inches today.
Let me look.
How much does it rained inPaloma, California.
Corbin like freaking 7.4.
I haven't turned on Facebooktoday, so I don't know what the
weather report is.
It says two and a half inches inthe last 24.

(10:49):
I don't think that's right.
Oh, this, oh God.
It's my new phone.
I gotta sign into this stupidthing.
I can't about Vince with his newgold plated phone.
I cannot believe.
Kid rock phone.
Gold plated.
That's what it is on the back.
You tried to say it was OrangeKid's Kid Rock did send it to
him.
Kid Rock did send it to him.
So for those that don't know,look Joe's dad, does your dad

(11:11):
listen to the podcast, Joe?
I don't think so.
I'm I'm certain.
David.
David.
Well, so David, every time itrains in Paloma, California,
David Fisher lets us know howmuch it's rained in the last 24
hours.
And I swear to you, I keepseeing, I sometimes I won't see
these messages until it's threedays later.

(11:32):
There's so many of'em in thelast four days that it's like, I
don't know if this is recent ornot.
I think it's rained like 12inches where Joe's at in the
last there at Bruin Ranch in thelast four days.
Well, don't confuse David Fisherwith Bruin Ranch.
David Fisher gets more rain thanBruin Ranch.
Listen, have more favorableconditions.

(11:53):
We have got, yeah, okay.
We can't, we can't leak thisyet, but we may be having a
listener call in.
No.
Oh, maybe.
My God, I'm still, oh my God.
This will be gold.
We can't leak it.
We can't leak it.
I will not.
That's Jason.
I'm still, I'm still waiting tohear back.

(12:15):
Still waiting.
He might be, he might be busychasing, chasing robberies,
chasing robbers.
Cor, why do you gotta ruineverything?
Oh shit.
Oh, I didn't ruin anything.
Chasing dad, guys.
Oh.
So what's been happening,Corbin?
You got three inches of rainhere at rafter.
Five M We've had some rain as oflate, and um, yeah, so I went

(12:40):
out with a dark gun this morningand everything that looked like
it might have its ears droopinga little was getting darted.
I'm so, like, we normally don'thave any problems, but we just
have been so dry that the dusthas gotten to some of these
calves.
And so, um, just keeping'emstraightened out's kind of kind.
Okay, so let's talk about that.
What's, what is, uh, what isyour best antibiotic for a dart

(13:02):
that your vet would've helpedyou identify?
D Dr.
I use Drax.
Yeah.
Do you use Drax, KP or drax?
Yeah.
Kp.
KP is the stuff now.
Kp.
Yeah.
I use kp.
It's a little bit more money,but Yeah.
But you don't have to do twodarts.
You don't have to do ine.
Right.

(13:22):
So the, I usually give'em alittle B12 too.
Gives them a little boost.
You put it in the, you don't putit in the same syringe, do you?
Don't don't, don't shoot me.
But you're not supposed to.
So I, I'm not giving advicehere.
But you do give them B12.
I'm just saying it works.
I'm saying you do anything likethat, Vince?

(13:44):
Uh, I do, but not generally inthe bigger calves, out in the
pasture that I'm having thedart, usually it's, uh, like the
ones within a couple of weeksold that are still by the barn
and we can grab'em up, you know,if they're bad.
Mm-hmm.
See, B12 is just so cheap andit's more like, I don't know,
just giving a jolt to theirsystem to let that.

(14:06):
Antibiotic goes to work, andthen that B12 kind of works a
little bit more immediately thanthe an antibiotic.
But I'll tell you what, withthis, the way these, these new
antibiotics are, they workreally good, really quick,
really fast.
And have you used Kersen at all?
Is that a new one?
No, it's generic.
I think it's, uh, yeah, it's ageneric of generic, but you,

(14:29):
you, you can't, and it is, it'sfine.
I've got, I think I accidentallythrew a bottle away because it
expired because I went to the KPso I could do it with one shot.
Right.
How much does that, I don't havea mattress.
How much cheaper is it?
It's like a hundred dollars for500 ml bottle.
That's cheap.
I'm kidding.
I dunno how much I was like,gimme two.

(14:52):
No, it at one time.
What was it like half price orsomething?
I think it was like half price.
Well, but see, but that was whenDrax was$400 a bottle.
Yeah.
And now Dr.
Dropped their price.
It was like 180.
Now that they have the KP.
It's back up to freaking stupid,but it's freaking awesome.
You give one shot and you'redone.
I agree.
One shot and you're done.

(15:12):
I would like to say to ourlisteners, if you gain anything
from that, it's whenever you goto Doc or something, you're
gonna go through the trouble.
Don't give'em if, if they'vegot, if they're sick or they've
got, don't give'em a 300, don'tgive'em LA 300.
Don't try to shoot that througha dart.
It's too thick.
Doesn't work.
It's, you can't, you can't,can't give them enough.
Yeah.

(15:33):
You can't give'em enough likesix darts.
So Yeah.
If you're lucky And, uh, theprice, the price of this
expensive antibiotic, I knowit's kind of, you look at it and
you're kind of scared, but it'sworth every penny.
Yeah.
But it also, you, it's notreally that much difference in
money unless you drop and bustthe bottle because Right.

(15:54):
The rate that you're givingversus Yeah.
You know, like Exceed, I loveexceed, but you give 30, 20 to
30.
Milliliters versus Is that thetan colored one, four or five?
No, it looks like, um, what'sthat tan one?
It's kind brown one.
Yeah, that's what I'm talkingabout.

(16:14):
It's, it's kind of a milkylooking.
Yeah.
I never thought much of that.
That stuff works pretty good,does it?
I never, I, well, and it's a diit's a different active
ingredient than it is cheaper.
Well, but it's also a differentactive ingredient than, um,
axin.
So sometimes you need adifferent use it instead of
Yeah.
Sometimes you need a little,there's a lot of guys that use

(16:35):
new floor too.
I think.
I, I hate new floor, but myvet's had me using it here
lately.
I don't, I, he actually has meusing new floor with exceed.
Ah, for respiratory?
No, for, they're about to die.
Huh?
You do both.
You do both.
Just give them no, here's whatyou do.
You just give them both thoseshots.

(16:56):
Just go ahead and put'em under,like just go ahead.
Him die.
Just do it.
Yeah.
So supposedly there was a studydone with new floor here several
years ago that it gets secretedout of there.
We can't see that it getssecreted out of there.
Uh, is he coming on?
Is he really coming on?
He just, he just got out of ameeting.
Oh, that's funny.
Oh golly.
So it's secreted down to theirtear ducts or something.

(17:19):
And if you give it for pink eye,there's actually more healing
that'll happen to the eye if itgets ulcerated with new floor.
So we use that.
I like Drax KP quite a bit.
Yeah.
But do you do the, the big doseof new floor or the little dose?
Always do the big dose.
I do too.
Who the hell wants to get'em upin 24 hours and do it again?
Oh, it's ridiculous.
It's absolutely, and, and youknow, that's the thing for

(17:41):
listeners too.
We aren't vets, we don't do anyprescribing antibiotics.
That's their job.
But my opinion is.
Always follow the label.
Always follow the label.
Like, yeah, but when, whensomebody's like, oh, I got this
cow.
She's got foot rot and, and sheweighs 1400 pounds.

(18:02):
I gave her, I'm give her 8 28ccs of, of la I'm like, why?
Why give her 28 ccs la It's 4.5per hundred pounds.
You need to be loading her up60.
All you're gonna do is createresistance issues.
You're gonna have to get her inagain.
'cause it's not gonna beeffective for those
mathematicians.
For those mathematicians.

(18:23):
That's six darts.
That's a lot of darts.
That's a lot of darts.
Oh, Corbin Corbin's, uh, Lucymust have kicked the, the heat
up to 64 degrees.
'cause Corbin's getting hot too.
Oh, look at the shirt baby.
Whoa.
Got the, around the shoot.
Are you, oh, is this our specialguest?

(18:43):
I'm, this is our special guest.
Hey, Randall?
Yes, sir.
Uh, you're live on the air.
Live on the air.
Listen.
Can we get an update, uh, ofwhat about what happened on ER
White Road?
So, uh, the culprit has not beencaught yet.

(19:03):
I've had reports from multiplestates with missing mirrors,
scratches on, uh, vehicles, uh,and missing FedEx drivers.
But no, nobody has been blamedyet missing FedEx drivers.
Yeah,'cause we had the FedExbags there.
Clean.
Oh no.
Why are they missing?
Are they, have they beenabducted?
No, we can't find the, theperson that run through the

(19:24):
fence.
Dad, gummy.
Hey, Randall.
Hey Randall.
He can't hear you.
Uh, Corbin's saying, Hey,Randall.
Hey, Randall.
Hey, Randall.
This is Corbin.
I can't hear.
I can't hear you.
Corbin.
Vince can, Vince can ask for.
I I'm gonna, I'm gonna relayhere.
Cor Corbin wants to know what doyou wanna know, Corbin, have you
have, have they scrubbed thescene?
Have, did they have we scrubbedthe scene for fingerprint?
We need to know if they scrubbedthe scene.

(19:45):
Did they find any fingerprints?
I'd suggest looking on the buttice bottles, like on the butt
ice bottle.
Like I'd start there.
This is Clay County, Alabama.
Uh, Alabama.
We, we do good, just havesheriff vehicles, so I doubt
very seriously.
They had a fingerprint kit inthe, in the vehicle with'em
baggu it forensic files this.

(20:06):
So this is disheartening.
Joe, do you have anything forour caller?
Hang on.
I wanna know if there's been anyattempts.
At the Christmas cash.
Have there been any needs, Joe,Joe wants to know.
Has there been any attempts toclaim the Christmas cash?
Yes.
Multiple attempts, but we'venot, uh, received evidence yet.

(20:28):
I, whoa, I sent you evidence,son.
I sent evidence.
I need good evidence.
Good evidence.
I sent it.
Did you, did you, did you needWIL chat space in the picture?
Randall?
I get it.
Randall, did y'all use cautiontape to repair that fence scene
though?
Did, what'd you say, Randall?
I said it didn't look like mycrime scene.

(20:50):
It was a scene.
Listen, Joe said in Californiathey just put crime tape up to
keep the cows in.
Did they do that for you?
No, they didn't do that andnobody fixed the fence, but me
and the boys, what is wrong withClay County?
We need to do better.
Can you get me the mayor'snumber?
I'm gonna call him now.
Okay, I get that.

(21:10):
Okay.
Thank you for calling Randall.
Good Thanksgiving.
You too.
Bye bye.
That was so awesome.
I hope that comes through.
I hope that comes through.
Oh, we need to that more often.
Could y'all hear you?
Special request.
So let's do a if, if we would'vestarted and said, who's the
first phone in guest?

(21:31):
Randall would've had what?
21 would've had.
Of the one odds he He would'vehad.
He would've had, which is prettydecent odds, I'd say.
But who would've been the leadodds, Mandy?
Oh no, I tell you.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell a story aboutLandy.
So I Landy, I mean, Mandy.
I mean Mandy.
I meant Mandy.

(21:51):
I thought you said Mandy, but Imeant Mandy.
Okay.
So Mandy, there was a post onFacebook and it was.
Something that was kind of, Ithought was kind of funny.
And then I went to read thecomments and Mandy did not think
it was funny and I automaticallyshifted my opinion.
I was like, you know what?
That shit ain't funny at all.
She's, she's persuasive, youknow, she, you, you, when you

(22:15):
think about it, Mandy's right.
She's not funny.
She's totally right.
This is not funny.
Not funny.
Quit joking around.
Stop joking around.
Oh good lord.
So Vince, what are we gonna talkabout today?
You know, have you guys everwondered why we feel so
pressured to overfeed animals,to get good weaning weights,

(22:39):
yearling weights, things likethat?
Or do you just think people liketo overfeed their animals?
I think I, some people do liketo over feeded their animals.
Did you say overfeed theiranimals?
Well, yes I did.
Introducing big, beefy energy.
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(23:01):
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(23:23):
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(23:44):
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(24:31):
AI is amazing, isn't it?
Three seconds.
Three seconds.
And you've got a pretty goodjoke.
Three seconds and, and, and theydidn't really say anything.
It didn't say anything, but itwas funny.
They just kept saying the samething differently.
Um, no.
This bull debate.
I don't even know where westarted or where we grab onto
it, but I'm starting to seepitchers, surface of bulls

(24:54):
available later on this earlywinter and or late winter and
early spring.
And, uh, boy, it's, some of themare pretty greasy.
Um, and I went through a periodjust for us this fall where I
was just really, reallyconcerned about the weights on
our bulls.
I felt like they were way behindme too.
I was, me too.
I send Vince pictures all thetime, Corbin pictures all the

(25:16):
time, and they'd be like, no,you're fine, you're fine, you're
fine.
And I, there's this weight thatjust weighs on a breeder's head
anymore of expectations.
And I think we've, we're kind ofgetting into this one-up or
keeping up with the bar, withthe Joneses of the feeding and
the purebred world withoutreally thinking about our end
product user.
And we're training that endproduct user to demand fat.

(25:38):
And, um, yeah, I don't know.
I've delivered some bulls thatare kind of light this late fall
that I was really, reallyworried about guys, I mean,
really worried about.
And, uh, the bulls have been onpasture and on hay after our
sale.
And, uh, the customers thankedme.
They were excited about it.
They were athletic, ready towork, thought they looked better
than the sale.

(25:58):
So maybe these are justparadigms, Corbin that we have
that we think that are actuallykind of fake.
It's like made up in thepurebred world, but when you get
out into reality.
Yeah, maybe the customers don'treally want that.
I don't know.
What do you, what do you think?
I think it's the breeder.
I think it's, it, it comes downto the breeder.
Um, so you've got, you've gotpressure you feel like from all

(26:21):
angles to, for this year's setof bulls to be as good as last
year's set.
And so there's so many thingsyou can't control.
Uh, you can't control arainfall, you can't control, uh,
weaning weights.
I mean all, a lot of that'sgonna depend on the environment.
So what do we try to do as aresult?
We try to, um, manipulate theenvironment, uh, in our favor.

(26:42):
So, you know, that's why wecreep feed, that's why we feed
the bulls.
Um, it takes a lot of theguesswork out, which, and some,
so sometimes we overcompensate,which it's great that, that we
have the ability to feed thebulls to where they can, we can
make'em look, um, we can make'emlook the way we can look,
because obviously that's what wehave to sell, right?
I mean, we ha we're going offof.

(27:04):
What's aesthetically pleasing tothe eye, and, and fat is a
aesthetically pleasing to theeye.
So it's, it's only natural.
But the problem is, is thatyou're destroying that bull in
the process.
Absolute.
You're ruining him.
You're ruining him.
And it's, and it's wasted.
It's wasted money because, um,I'm gonna say that if a bull
weighs, there's a certainthreshold where if a bull gets

(27:27):
to that big of a year, thatweight's going, that weight's
gone at the first sign of, Imean, they're gonna melt.
They're gonna melt anyways.
And so whenever that bull's 18months old, whether he weighed
1200 at a year or 1500 a year,he's gonna look a certain way.
Um, so I just so Vance, I knowthat you, especially on your,

(27:48):
I'll call'em full aged bulls,the ones that are older than a
year, um, you shared with mewhat their yearling weights are
and you're like, Hey, don'tworry about that'cause this is
what mine are and you have moretime maybe.
Speak to how your evolution inbull development has changed
over the years.
And, and I wanna point tosomething you said to me last

(28:09):
week where you go, man, theseguys are calling with their
bulls from last year and they'reso, so happy.
What'd you change or where'dmaybe go with what you started
with and what you were taughtand then where you guys are now
at, at your operation?
Well, you know, originallyyou've, you get the notion that,

(28:29):
like you said, you gotta keep upwith the Joneses and you know,
you look around and um, you kindof go to a lot of sales and
stuff and you need to feed'em,you need to feed'em, you need to
feed'em.
They have to be fat.
They have to be fat.
And I just felt, I mean, likeyou were saying, it just ruins
'em, like Corgan was justsaying.
And I just got tired of ruininga lot of good bulls and you

(28:55):
know, it's a lot of money andyeah.
I don't if somebody had, I'vehad people ask, want to come
this summer to look at bulls,but they're not ready.
And I didn't wanna show'em toanybody because my bulls don't
have to be ready for sale tillApril.
So why should I just keep'em fatjust so you could show'em to

(29:16):
somebody just so I can show'emto somebody in, in November?
I don't think you should.
Right.
And, and I think it should beperfectly acceptable from, from
a customer for you to say, Hey,uh, these bulls aren't really
ready to be seen.
Right.
Uh, maybe what, well, what's,what do you do there?
If you have somebody that wantsto come in?
Sure.
It's hard to turn somebody.
I just tell, I know it is, but Ijust tell'em, look, right now,

(29:37):
they're not ready.
And, uh, you know, they, I thank'em.
I always thank'em for contactingus and looking just maybe, maybe
you offer, say, Hey, I'd love toshow you the cow herd, the, the
mothers of these bulls.
Right.
I'll show you the calves ontheir side.
I'll show you every otherthings, but Right.
The bulls themselves are turnedout on grass.

(29:57):
Um, the other problem that Ihave with developing bulls is
that whenever you go to type ina yearly weight, and that yearly
weight's 1,050.
Yep.
Or, or 1100 pounds even, youalmost feel inadequate putting
that weight in.
What about nine?
It's a hundred.
Or like, you know, even even onweaning weights when you don't
creep feet or you don't take,you know, I was in a, a really

(30:19):
bad way with a drought threeyears ago where we just hadn't,
I'm, uh, it was the ponds weredrying up.
We had a hard time with freshdrinking water.
We didn't have any grass.
We were putting out hay inAugust.
So, I mean, it was, it was atough year.
And if a cow weaned a 550 poundcalf and bred back, she had done
a hell of a job.

(30:39):
Right.
And I had to input those weaningweights and it was almost
embarrassing to put those, putthose small weaning weights.
And I know that whenever peoplesee, oh, his, his calf weaned at
4 98, well I can go to shops andget one that, that weed 1100.
They're looking at me like.
This guy has no, this guy has nobusiness.
But the reality is that theenvironment played a large role

(31:02):
in that.
And I just think that the con,you just have to be, you just
have to have conviction.
You just have to believe in whatyou're doing.
So what do you two guys think anacceptable weaning and yearling
weight are?
And I, and I'm not talkingabout, well, on a drought year,
on whatever, whatever, whateverI'm just saying, acceptable to
not push'em so hard and feelinginadequate.

(31:25):
Like he was just saying and,'cause I'm like, you, Corbin.
I mean, I was entering some ofmy yearling weights.
They were not great, but Ididn't, I didn't feel the need
to push'em just so I can have aweight that made me feel good.
I, I've started not to pub, soin the sale book, I can tell you
I'm not gonna publish yearlingweights.

(31:46):
That's not gonna be in there.
I'll, I'll do a sale day, waitinstead.
And that, that right reallycovers the bases a lot more.
Um.
Yeah, so an acceptable weaningweight, um, I'd say to shoot for
650 pounds would be, you know,without creep.
Feeding them to death without,you know, without doing anything

(32:07):
special would be kind of, thatkind of knocked the, the nail on
the head for, for ourenvironment.
Is it, is it different for bullsand heifers for you?
Absolutely.
Threshold?
Yeah.
Those, those heifers aren'tgonna weigh as much.
No, I know that I'm saying yourthreshold to say, you know what,
that's really too light.
And so what's funny is sellingfull 2-year-old bulls, if I,

(32:28):
the, the embryo calves, uh, someof those, some of those will
wean at 5 80, 600 pounds on, onan 1100 pound reci, a bull that
weighs 600, you'll still know,you still have the genetic
potential there, whether youfeed'em to 800 pound weaning or
1400 pound yearling.
It doesn't matter that geneticpotential is still there and it

(32:50):
can still be seen by thecommercial producer.
I don't think we give thecommercial guy enough credit for
what they're seeing either.
I think we think, oh, we can, wecan hide something by getting'em
fat.
Right?
But I think, I think they'remore in tune with what's going
on than what we give'em credit.
What do you think, Joe?
What say you?
Well, I told you guys beforethat, um, I've told you that I

(33:13):
almost became a math major in,uh, in college when I started
out.
And so my mind automaticallygoes to math.
And Corbin just talked about,uh, you know, I just, I wanted
to share with you guys some,some math perspective and, and
this is really, really fast andit's on my computer or it's on
my phone and then jotting itdown.

(33:35):
So if I'm, I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
But just follow along here for asecond.
If you had a 650 pound, 2 0 5day weight.
That calf weighed 75 pounds atbirth.
So you subtract that out anddivide it by 2 0 5, that is 2.8
pounds per day weight per day ofage.

(33:55):
What's wrong with that?
I don't think there's anythingwrong with that.
It's a pretty good number.
Really?
Yeah, it really is.
There will be a lot of peoplewho will advertise their bull
development as a high roughageration to keep bulls athletic,
and a lot of people will saythat in order to keep bulls in
the best breeding, tiptopbreeding condition, that they'll

(34:16):
gain three and a half pounds aday.
So if you just say 160 times3.5, that's another 560 pounds
of gain in that period, which Istill would say that's pretty
salty when you really, reallythink about it every day of that
animal's life, that puts you ata 1200 pound yearling weight.
So now if you add thatperspective and you start

(34:38):
looking at these bulls that arefourteens, fifteens, sixteens,
seventeens in excess, there aresome number calculation things
that are kind of funny onyearling weight.
Like I even remember in the dayswhen we were feeding really hard
where the way that the AngusAssociation's lifetime
adjustment or lifetime averageday adjustment would work, that

(35:00):
if you used adjusted yearlingweight, we'd have bulls that
their adjusted yearling weightwas heavier than the day they
sold.
And they were like 14 months.
And I'm like, I don't know howthis all works.
Right?
So what I, what I could say is,is people wanna be truthful and
honest about their data.
Um, I think you could breakthings down like this in terms
of a commercial producer and saythat's, that's, those are surely

(35:22):
acceptable numbers.
I would also tell you that ourcalves last year, we had an
exceptional year, they adjustedwas 755 pounds of weening.
It's pretty salty.
Yeah, there's nothing, nothingwrong with that.
Those bulls had a lot offighting and some issues at the
feedlot, and I don't know, Ihaven't figured out all their

(35:45):
yearling calculations good on mefor not getting that in yet.
To Corbin's point, we stoppedputting that in there because we
have a couple things going on.
First of all, we don't controlall our means of feeding.
We have to do that somewhereelse.
That's a California problem, aCalifornia debacle.
I can't just erect a feed lothere and start feeding my own
bulls.
Um.

(36:06):
But the numbers would set fortha certain paradigm in people's
minds.
And honestly, I wouldn't evenhave the numbers by the time the
catalog goes to press anyway.
So we just, so Joe, do you feedyour bulls in, uh, Nevada or I
used to, no, I've been feeding'em in the Central Valley here
lately.
Um, for the past three years.
Does it just require a lot ofpermits and stuff or, yeah, it

(36:28):
would require permits and it'sall NIMBY stuff.
Nimby, not in my backyard.
Um, oh yeah, you do?
Okay.
Until a neighbor complains.
And then it just goes on and onand on.
Not to mention the access tofeed stuffs, you know, reliable
feed stuffs we're, we're a longways from corn.
If corn's grown in California,it's usually used up by that

(36:48):
producer, which is often adairy.
So the, the feed stuffs justaren't available.
Um, and then owning the mixerwagon and all that stuff, these
are all things that we justdon't have access to here.
But back to the bull developmentpiece, I would love to have them
myself at home.
100%.
I love walking through'em.
Um, we have'em here now, justfeeding them hay and pasture

(37:11):
and, um, boy, I absolutely loveit because we'll go dink around
with them.
If somebody wants their bulls,we go gather'em.
I've been taking the entire lot.
There's 60 bulls there.
Every time they come to thecorral, we just open up the head
gate, open up the tub, and wedrive'em all through it.
Just teach'em to just walkthrough.
Little things like that I thinkare real, real good customer

(37:32):
service points.
And when you're thinking aboutcustomer service all the time,
that's what got me to, and I'mnot saying anything against the,
the, the creep feeding world.
I wanna be very careful there.
If you have access to thosecommodities right now,
especially if you're acommercial customer, if you're a
commercial customer and you haveaccess to those commodities, the
cost of gain is absolutely worthit to feed those cattle, you

(37:54):
could put a hundred pounds on a,you know, add a hundred pounds
across the board.
Pretty easy.
100%.
And I think that the challengequarter is when you have those
commodities at your fingertipsand you can see it with your
eyes, is not crossing the linetoo far as a seed stock producer
and making sure that you'reproviding a product that is
still athletic and can do theirjob and last for a long time.

(38:14):
You know, I mean, I, Idefinitely think we have to be
careful since all four of usare, I'm sorry.
Since all three of us have beenin our podcast career, we, um.
Sometimes have empoweredlisteners to use bulls that I
don't know they should use.
They shouldn't use to makedecisions.

(38:35):
They should, they shouldn't.
We're not advocating forselling, you know, really,
really thin bulls and trying toget those swapped off.
There is a balance there.
We do want hundred percent wantto develop them.
That's the goal, is bolddevelopment to develop them into
a condition to service cows.
I think that the rub becomes,how do we develop them, but
develop them for longevity, forthe usefulness of the purpose

(38:58):
that they serve without ruiningthem.
And in the days that we used tofeed'em hard at this ranch, I
can't mention anymore.
We were getting a lot of returnbulls, we were getting a lot of
credit bulls.
We were getting a lot of hurtbulls.
We were getting lot, what do yousay back then?
Back then you'd take the bee offand call it, call it ruin Ranch.
No kidding, dude.
There's, there's, so we, but ittook some cool pictures, Corbin.

(39:21):
Absolutely.
We took some cool pictures, man.
So I think it would be reallycool to actually even dive
deeper into, so we've, we'vementioned how overfeeding'em can
ruin them.
Let's just, let's just, howsomebody might say, how am I
ruining them?
How am I ruining them?
What am I doing to'em?
Blowing their feet out, messingtheir gut up, slicking up their
gut.
Like you said, I had a guymention to me yesterday, um, he

(39:44):
goes, well, you know when theirmouths are soft and they go out
onto pasture, I'd never heard itsaid that before, but he goes,
yeah, their mouths are used toeating soft feeds.
And then you go turn'em out withcows.
Especially in these fallscenarios, they're eating
dormant grass.
Their stomachs aren't adjusted.
They're probably, hopefully theyhave some amount of libido.

(40:04):
So they're chasing cows and theyaren't eating right.
And then once they do eat theirmouth's kind of sore, whatever.
Sometimes when we get the firstrains and this grass gets soft,
you'll see the cattle just fluffright up.
Well, it's because the grass isa little bit softer still.
Um, I, I think the gut, theslicking up these guts, Vince,
that you mentioned, can you talkon any higher level about that?

(40:27):
Well, I don't know if I canspeak to that particularly, but
I will say this, um, years back,I mean, this was.
2005 ish, somewhere in there.
Uh, we went and bought two bullsfrom a, a place that feeds, you
know, 365.

(40:48):
They, they just feed.
And I don't know that it was alltheir fault.
Uh, they may have beenoverpopulated and they had to
feed, but when they got here,they had knee deep grass and the
feed truck wasn't coming aroundand they would not graze.
And they stood there all daylong waiting on a feed truck.
And it took them over a year tofigure out, hmm, the feed truck

(41:11):
wasn't coming.
Well, think about, think aboutwhen those bulls go to, to, to,
that are developed that way.
Go to commercial guys place and,and they're, they're meant to
earn it, right?
And they can't do it.
They can't do what they'resupposed to do.
Um, and then another thing wedidn't even mention is, is when
you're feeding these bullsreally hard and they're in a
feedlot and you're getting themto, you're gonna kill'em.
They are gonna die.

(41:31):
So you're gonna feed them todeath, to death.
They will fall over and whetherthey roll over on their side and
can't get up and they bloat anddie, or whether they have a
heart attack and die, it's, ithappens.
And it happens a lot.
A lot.
So what are some indicators, Imean, that you look for in a
bull that's been way overfinished?

(41:54):
Because there's a definitedifference, right?
I mean, you can get one that, Idon't know what the numbers are,
1300, 1400, whatever.
I mean, we'll see a lot of themreach those marks.
But you can see a bull and hestill looks fresh and athletic
and good.
And then you see some that arecooked.
What do you look for there,Vince?
Oh man.

(42:14):
I don't know if I can describeit.
I can tell when I see'em, but Idon't even know that I, I mean,
they're just, it's almost evenlike their hair coat don't look
right.
And like, so sometimes,sometimes you'll have this, the
bull that's, that's exceptional,that weighs 1500 at a year.
That can take it, take it instride.
He can do that and he doesn'tlook, he's not cooked.

(42:37):
Right.
But they all can't.
But then the, you talk about therest of the ones in the pen.
Yeah.
They can't handle it.
Yeah.
You might have two, two out of20 that could handle it.
Yeah.
And they look like a millionbucks.
And you've got a great picturesitting there of them and you've
got 10 of them.
Are just so round.
They look like if you shot'emwith a BB gun, they would
explode and they can't walk.

(42:58):
That.
That's another thing.
I mean, like, it, it's, itscrews up, I think it screws up
their structure even a littlebit.
Absolutely.
Their joints, they're gonna rolltheir their joints.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I think, I think theyget really ouchie in their
joints.
It's like their joints hurt alittle bit.
Right.
And, and watch'em move.
Watch em move.
They don't move smooth.
They don't, they don't want,they're choppy to Yeah.

(43:18):
And they don't want to.
And then another thing younotice, another, another
telltale sign is if that bulldoesn't wanna pick his head up,
pass his shoulder blades and,and look up that bull's hurting
if he wants to keep his headdown.
Uh, it just, yeah.
And then there's, I wannamention one about hair coat for
Vince.
I didn't learn this until ourkids started raising show
steers.

(43:39):
The quickest way to burn thehair off of'em is high, high
energy diets.
Lot of corn, high protein dietsare how you get cattle to grow
hair.
And so when you start seeingbulls in cold climates that got
about that much of hair, I'mshowing like a half inch.
That means they've had theenergy just absolutely torched
to'em.
And some of those, some of thoseoutfits, some of those northern

(44:00):
outfits have to do that becausethey have to compensate for such
difficult winners too.
And so if they don't have alayer of fat on them, then
they'll die too.
Well that, that's a whole notherconversation there.
You know, you geography andwhere you're at and what your
problems.
Proximity to feed too.
What you have to deal with.
If I, well, just like Joe said,he can't get it, but what if

(44:21):
you're in Nebraska or someplacelike that?
What if you're growing iteverywhere?
Like you're Vince, you'regrowing and you get as much of
it's sitting at your disposal asyou can.
Vince, you'd be stupid not tocreep feed.
You'd be stupid.
You'd be pissing money away.
There's also, um.
Well, I just lost my train ofthought.

(44:42):
Go Corbin.
It was all your fault.
My bad.
It was your fault.
No, no.
I think, I think that that's whythese podcasts get so boring
over time though, and peopleappreciate how we just chop it
up and we're friends and we messwith each other.
And some people like an episodeand some don't, but it ends up
being the exact same point everyepisode.
It's know the person you'rebuying from.

(45:03):
Know what they're managing andwhat they're trying to
accomplish and see if it fitsyour management or if it doesn't
or if you can tolerate pieces ofit and you can't because, you
know, uh, Corbin mentioned abreeder's name that's very
northern, has way more access tofeed stuffs and different feed
stuffs than I do.
I still use a lot of theirgenetics in places Absolutely.

(45:24):
That I believe work.
And then there's other peoplewho, who fit our management.
And then you watch what they'redoing and you're like, that's,
that's not the kind of cow thatI could feel good about selling
or the kind of bull that I couldfeel good about selling.
And so that's why I really likethe breeder being the creator
and the, and the creative onewho can take what their eye

(45:46):
wants to produce for theircustomers, go into different
outfits.
But don't I, I guess what I sayis when you show up at a place,
don't say, man, my bulls aresmall.
Man, my bulls are light, man.
My cows are thin, man, my cowsare fat.
Dig a little deeper.
Get to know what those peopleare actually doing, what they do
to make cattle look that way.

(46:06):
Um, what their resources are.
Maybe they don't do anything andthey just run less cows per
acre.
Maybe they have incredibleenvironmental conditions.
Um, maybe they just havedifferent environmental
conditions than you do, but boy,know your breeder.
Know your producer.
Vince, I feel like you, youfigured out what you was gonna
say.
What about it?
It wasn't what he was talkingabout.

(46:26):
But what about flip the flipside to this, underfeeding them.
So I about, I got myself in apickle.
You guys know this, this, this,uh, summer because I was bound
and determined to not overfeed'em.
I wanted to let'em do it ontheir own.
I wanted'em to let'em get, youknow, used to eating grass that

(46:46):
the feed truck wasn't coming allthe time.
And, but they need feed.
To grow.
They, they don't have to have 20pounds per head per day, but
they need feed to grow.
So there is a fine line therewhere I screwed up my math a
little bit and we under fed'emand I just kept like, God, these

(47:11):
things look terrible.
They look terrible, they lookterrible.
And um, one day I was just kindof running some numbers again.
'cause we do that every so oftenand say, okay, they're getting
this much, okay, it's time tobump'em up because if you go by
a percentage of body weight,which is what I was always
taught to do, then you know, asthey grow you gotta kind of bump

(47:31):
'em up a little bit.
And they were just fallingbehind and falling behind.
And.
There was a lot of things too.
This year.
We had a lot of rain early.
That grass was real washy.
My wing calves didn't look good,my cows didn't look good.
Um, I think that was workingagainst me some, and I also

(47:53):
think that I was just underfeeding them.
And I mean, you can't starve'em.
They have to have certainnutritional values to grow
properly.
I, I had to learn that the hardway too.
I mean, I, I pride myself onturning these bulls out on grass
in the summertime and letting'emgo.
And I do, but you know what?
I started feeding them three orfour pounds a day throughout the
summertime.
I don't care how it's 300degrees outside, I, you still

(48:15):
gotta get them up.
You gotta keep'em moving in theright direction because what
happens if you don't, whathappens if you turn'em out on
grass?
You're gonna, they're, you'regonna stun them.
It's really hard to, it, it'sharder to tell.
It takes a lot longer to get'emback on track.
What you have to do is you haveto overcompensate Yes.
To get'em back on track.
Yeah.
And then when you get'em back ontrack, you're liable to cause

(48:37):
issues with them that you'retrying to avoid.
So it's important to keep'emmoving in the right direction
too because you all, you know,you're gonna like with yours.
And I'm not saying it happenedbecause it didn't,'cause you
were on top of it and you, you,you didn't let it, you didn't
let'em stay behind for long.
But you let'em stay, stay behindfor long and then you're 90 days
to sale day or 90 days fromwhenever you're wanting to

(48:58):
market'em and you ratchet themthings up and you go million
miles of nothing.
You're gonna burn'em up.
Yeah.
You're gonna burn'em up andyou're gonna spend a lot of
money.
Yeah.
Because those bulls can eat alot of feed where Bring along
slow.
You can, you know, you're, youend up saving money in the long
run.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Right?
Absolutely.
So we just had a conversationfor a while about overfeeding

(49:20):
and I would say one of myfavorite cow quotes I always
remember, and I don't know if itwas, it was a famous book, and I
think it was Phil Statler, whowas a cattle trader out here,
and I might be misquoting, um,who it was, but the quote was,
you can't starve a profit into acow.
Yeah.
And I think that that's reallyimportant.

(49:41):
Um, I remember my beef 1 0 1teacher talking about the
building box of, of growth of ananimal, and you.
You need high amounts of proteinin early calf development in
order to get bone soft tissueand muscle growth.
And so I, I think that some ofthese periods in the production

(50:01):
cycle, like right now, if you'rea fall caver, that cow is on the
down slide now.
She, it doesn't matter if you'rein Auburn, California or if you
are in Loretta, Tennessee orColgate, Oklahoma.
She is generally speaking on thedownside.
And so that's gotta givesomewhere.
Either the calf is not meetinghis nutrition or her nutritional

(50:22):
requirements, or it's peelingoff a mom.
And, um, I think that gettingthose animals fully developed
will help with breed back.
It will help with futurelongevity.
Um, there's just a balance.
I mean.
Our current mode of beefproduction, and I tip my cap to
the people to do it.
Some people selling almost3-year-old bulls developed on

(50:42):
grass.
If you've got a clientele thatthat works for, then wonderful.
You should do that.
I encourage you.
But our current mode of beefproduction does have a feeding
sector.
It does have a feedlot sector,and those genetics do require,
um, nutrients that aren't alwaysfound just out in the pasture to
express those differences.
Um, and I'm, I'm not advocatingone way or another, I'm just

(51:05):
stating what I know is fact.
And so I think all of us here onthis podcast, we, we try our
best to keep them presentable,keep them long lived for
everyone else.
And then sometimes we find outwe may next year want to crank
'em up just a little bit more.
Next year we wanna back'em off alittle bit more.
But I would really encourageeveryone.

(51:27):
You ain't ever gonna win thefeeding race.
There'll always be someone thatfeed'em harder than you and have
a more, but you do have a shotat the longevity in this
business race.
If you find out what yourcustomers need and produce that,
and if those customers go gatherthose bulls and they look a
little wore out, but like theybr a bunch of cows and their
cows aren't open, and then thatbull comes back as a 2-year-old

(51:51):
and he's amazing and 3-year-oldand 4-year-old.
And then they say, boy, I'msorry, I haven't been back to
the Shady Brook sale.
That bull's still breeding cows.
He's like a 4-year-old.
And you go.
No, you bought him five yearsago and he wasn't born that day.
I mean, how many conversationshave you had like that Vince, I,
I went to a place one time and,and there was a bull with a W on
his side and I said, that bull's10 years old.

(52:12):
I mean, it's several years agonow, and time flies, but we
wanna make sure that these bullslast for people.
We wanna make sure that thefemales breed for people.
Oh yeah.
We haven't even talked about thefemale development side, Vince.
Right.
What's, what's excess adiposetissue do to the breed up on
heifers?
I started keeping mine thin andman, my conception rates jumped

(52:33):
a lot.
It's pretty easy, the heifers, Ithink it's pretty easy to shoot
for a yearling weight of around8 50, 900, which, I mean, I
don't, I don't know how many Iwould have to hit 900.
That might sound thin to somepeople, but I'm gonna tell you
what you're going, they're gonnabreed.
Yeah, they're gonna breed.
Yeah.
So Corbin, on that topic, heiferdevelopment.

(52:54):
Do you have some heifers thatmay breed at a lower weight than
they weed at?
Heck yes.
And do you know how, so wheneverI first started with the
registered deal, I used to notweigh anything.
And so I had no idea that I wasweaning a 650 pound heifer.
And then she then, and thenwhenever she was a year old, she
was six 50, didn't gain a pound.

(53:18):
Right?
But then by the time I'mbreeding her at 15 months, you
know, you're, you're up there 788 you, so you don't realize
those type of things until youhave registered stock.
You don't realize that you'renot putting any weight on that,
that heifer you're keeping.
But what's the point?
Why would I, well, what's thepoint in putting a bunch of
weight on?
And I'll tell you what, A littlecalf with sucking fat, you know
the, when they get that thingunder their jaw and you're like,
she's trashy, fronted, and thenall of a sudden she gets pretty

(53:41):
fronted and she's grown, butshe's like three body condition
scores behind you go.
That's the exact same weightcalf.
She's just green and growninstead of over fat and little.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've noticed that a lot onour heifers.
It's not all of'em, but thereare some that if you pull out
the weights, you're like.
She was heavier when we weanedher that day.
And maybe, and then, and thenyou'll have some that, that

(54:03):
maybe they wean smaller andyou're like, well, I know what
her mom is and I know what herCy is, so I'm gonna keep her
around.
And, and you'll wean a 400 poundheifer.
And then whenever you go tobreeder, she'll weigh the same
as those ones that weaned at600.
You know, it's, it's funny howthat that stuff sort of works
itself out and stuff.
The majority of thoselightweight heifers, when
they're four or 5-year-old cows,you'll never know they were

(54:26):
behind.
You don't know they were light.
Never.
Never.
And that's, and that's, sothat's something we run into
with our ET program.
We, we, you know, we, if I havethe opportunity, I'll sort some
of those heifer calves off and Iwon't creep feed them.
I, you know, I'll just, they're,they're run green.
I'll wean some 4, 450 pound, youknow, et heifers.
And by the time that thing's acow, they actually do better.

(54:47):
And you don't, you, I, I don'thave any problems with their
feet.
I get'em bread.
Um, yeah, but then also you can,you can starve a heifer out into
not breeding too.
Right.
You can get'em too.
Well, same thing with a bull.
They gotta have nutrition.
Yeah.
To do all the things they needto do.
Yeah.
And that's what I was gonna say,like wherever you buy feed most,

(55:09):
I don't know any place thatdoesn't have a nutritionist
either on staff or they workwith them, call'em, say, Hey,
can I talk?
Yeah.
These, let'em know what yourgoals are.
Hey, yeah, these are gonna beseed stock things, or these
things are going to town the daywe wean'em.
I want to get, this is myweight.
I'm trying to hit blah, blah,blah, but, and stay talk with'em

(55:33):
because I was in constantcontact with my nutritionist
when these bulls were not doingwhat I thought they should be
doing.
And.
He and I worked through it.
We just talked it all out.
He asked me a hundred questions.
I told him what I thought.
I answered his questions and weworked through it.
So, and we're always two, threetimes a year I send my feed

(55:54):
samples off to be checked tomake sure they are where,'cause
he runs all that on a computer.
He's assuming corn is this, he'sassuming my oats are this.
He's assuming all theseingredients are what they're
supposed to be, right?
But if it was some bad corn thathad been in a band for a long
time, or the weevils got in it,or, or whatever, that's gonna

(56:17):
change everything.
Or if it was, uh, you know,maybe we got too much rain and
the oats weren't as good as theyshould have been, or 150
different things.
What do the wes do?
What do the weevils do?
Sometimes they get those, they,they eat the heart outta the
corn.
Oh, they'll drill a So what isthat then?
They're eating nothingbasically.
I didn't even know that theydrill a ho.
If you look at your cornkernels, they'll have a hole in

(56:40):
them.
Or that happens that happenslike in the summertime, uh, you
get'em different times.
I do.
And I mean, I treat, I treat mybins, but still, and the bad
part is the best stuff to treatthe bins with.
I really don't want my animalseating because it's some bad
stuff.
You treat'em when they're emptycattle?
Yeah.

(57:00):
I treat'em when they're emptyand there's a, there's a powder
you can put in it as it's beingfilled that is safe for you to
eat.
So it's not gonna hurt animals,but the wee will eats it and it
expands in their stomach and itkills'em.
Um, but it's so hard to get thatconsistent through the bin.
And it's so hard.
You dump it in the auger and itmight get tucked in a pocket and

(57:23):
never make it to the bin.
If you try to dump it in toofast, it just clogs the auger
up.
It, it's, it's a little trickyto be honest.
You're, you're teaching mesomething because I didn't know,
I mean, I knew weevils.
Were eating.
Like I knew they, but I didn'tknow they were just destroying
the corn and the feed.
Did, did you know that Weilswobble, but they don't fall
down.

(57:44):
We will wobble.
We wobble.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
We gotta get back on track.
Alright, go.
I'm sorry, this is not the Weilchat.
I had a conversation with afriend today though, and he was
telling me, uh, talking to meabout the importance of sticking
with, I don't know.
'cause I don't feed kettle, Ijust don't, uh, it's not that
philosophical.
We don't, we don't all live inthe havens of California, Joe.

(58:06):
No, no, no.
That's not what I'm saying.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying I shipped my bullsoff.
So I don't know what thisworld's like other than when I
was at college.
Um, but this gentleman said, hegoes, Hey, now I've seen some
guys you have, if you areworking with a nutritionist, and
he says that on this load youneed to be mixing the alfalfa

(58:28):
first and then you need to putin the silage and then you need
to put in the corn.
More is not.
More so if he says that on themix, it's 650 pounds of corn and
you're like, boy, my bulls, Iwent by so-and-so's house and
they were a little behind.
I'm just gonna nudge in a littleextra corn or I'm gonna nudge
it.
You could tip cattle over one.

(58:48):
You could harm their longevitytoo.
There's a whole other host ofproblems.
And then what this, thisgentleman was telling me I
hadn't even thought aboutbecause I don't live in that
world, as he says, you know, ifyou mix that stuff different
than the nutritionist hasaccounted for and you put the
corn and you beat up all thatcorn and you make it basically
like chicken scratch mash, andthen you mix the alfalfa too
long and they start sorting orwhatever.

(59:10):
I mean this whole bull andheifer development, this cow
development thing.
Requires an incredible amount ofattention to detail.
And I've told you guys betweenCalifornia regulation, access to
feed stuff, yada, yada, a wholebunch of excuses.
But one of the basic points istoo, I don't have that attention
to detail to give to thatdevelopment to the cattle

(59:31):
either.
And so I would encourage some ofour listeners, if you don't have
that attention to detail or theproper equipment to do stuff,
maybe you should find somebodywho does, because you got a lot
of money riding on that and alot of your producers money and
investing in those genetics too.
And here's the thing, you don'thave to go out and hire a
nutritionist If you're buyingthe feed from somebody, they

(59:53):
need they, they'll help you.
They'll help you, absolutely.
And you need to tell'em whatyour goals are.
Hey, I'm gonna keep these back.
I don't need'em to be pig fat.
They can be slowly developedover time.
Hey, my bulls are gonna sell in12 months.
I don't need them to be, they'regonna sell in April.
I don't need'em to be fat in.

(01:00:14):
July and August.
I just know it's hit my mark.
You know what's crazy?
So selling these 2-year-oldbulls, selling these 2-year-old
bulls, it's amazing how quickyou can get'em from, you can go
from holy crap, they're thin tookay, they're gonna be there.
Um,'cause I know like in thesummer months, there's really,

(01:00:35):
I, I don't really push bullsvery hard in the summer because
I don't wanna kill'em.
I just, I just think getting'emso fat in the summertime, you're
gonna end up doing a lot ofproblems, a lot more harm than
good.
So I don't, and then a lot oftimes when it finally cools off,
that's when I start, start tobump'em, bump'em, bump'em.
Well, I noticed, I noticed thisthis year, once it cooled off

(01:00:56):
and I started feeding, it didn'ttake very long before I noticed
a difference.
And it takes a lot for you tonotice difference when you're
the one feeding them every day.
Yeah.
And so how about, how about thedifference in those bulls and
how they semen test Corbin?
That's what I was fixing to say.
The same thing.
And, and you know, it's, it's.
Honestly, honestly, bringing'emalong slow like that and having

(01:01:17):
them where they have plenty ofroom to move, it's a joy to go
look at their feet.
It's a joy.
It's just, it's, it's so muchbetter.
So what's one of the pitfallsthough, keeping'em athletic?
I'll tell you a number one, theyfight.
Yeah.
And they hurt each other.
They do fight.
They do fight.
And they do.
Yeah.
If you don't want your bulls tofight, you just make'em tick fat

(01:01:37):
so they don't feed feel good andthey just feel like eating and
then waddling over to water andthen they water over to the
straw and lay down and then theywaddle over the feed.
Well, what do we do to our, uh,what do I do to the ones I feed
out?
I put'em as small pin as I canand I want'em to move as little
as possible.
And that's because I don't want'em to get hurt.
And that's because I want'em tosit there and get fat.
So the best way to get one tonot fight is to put it in a

(01:02:01):
small pen and feed the crap outof it.
So it doesn't have, it's, it'spreoccupied with eating, but,
you know, selling those two yearolds too.
I'm not saying they're donegrowing, but their growth curve
starts slowing way down.
And then you miss out on, on,you know, when you sell a
younger bull.
Yeah.
Well then when they hit 18months, that bull wants to go
backwards.
Yeah.
They just do because they've gottheir new teeth coming in.

(01:02:23):
Um, they've been out with Cal,they're just a time in life
where they wanna go backwards.
If you sell 2-year-old Bull,you've kind of got'em over some
of those humps.
And so, um, what about if youuse a young bull though?
You just gotta, if you buy a 15month old bull and you turn him
out, that is that I do it and itscares the crap outta me that
people are not gonna listen.
You know?

(01:02:43):
And I do, I do it too, and it's,it's just something.
I'll turn'em out for 90 days andI won't have, I won't give'em
any special treatment, butwhenever I get'em back up, yes.
You've gotta get'em back going,get'em back in shape.
I've made the mistake of, ofgetting them, you know, sorting
'em off the cows and just kindof turning'em back out with the
other herd bulls.

(01:03:04):
Yeah.
Instead of just tending to'emand getting'em back into shape.
Um, and then they end up neverreally looking the part.
Yeah.
But then the other, the devil'sadvocate side of that says, Hey,
the genetics are still there.
Who gives a crap what he lookslike?
Uh, but I gotta look at him.
I gotta look at him every day.
So, and then when you tellsomebody, look, I mean, he is

(01:03:26):
only 15 months old.
He probably don't need to be outwith, you know, 12 cows or so,
right?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I'm not gonna put'em out.
Well.
I don't know that I a hundredpercent believe everybody that
tells me that, you know, I'dreally like, uh, if I had my
dream, and a lot of ourcustomers have caught onto this,
is they buy basically nextyear's bulls this year.

(01:03:48):
Yes.
That is so much better.
Right.
So those yearlys get to go out,you turn'em out with older
bulls, they kind of, you watch'em, they'll run over, they'll
sniff his sheath a little bit.
That old bull will kind of justbe eating grass or something and
he might kind of flip it someflies or something, but they
never really fight.
They kind of just toy around andthat yearling bull's gonna breed

(01:04:09):
some cows.
Right.
But mostly he's gonna learn howto be a bull at that new
person's place.
And then he's in the big leaguesnext year.
I mean, yeah.
And, and there'll be somebodywho picks on this podcast if
they listen this far and belike, oh yeah.
You know, but I just, I've seenit enough where if these guys
think about their yearling bullsand treat them like they treat

(01:04:31):
their first calf heifers.
That's a good rule of thumb.
If you treat a young bull likeyou treat a first calf heifer,
they will last, like you'd treata first calf heifer, so that
first calf heifers you take careof and you get bred the second
year.
Those, you know, those are theones that'll end up lasting in
your herd.
If you don't, they're gonna fallout and the bulls be the same
way.
I honestly, honestly, Joe, youmight be onto something that you

(01:04:54):
might be able to raise, youknow, if you're selling bulls,
you might be able to raise themwith that same thing in mind as
I, I'm gonna develop'em like I'mdeveloping egg wet too.
Well, and if you think about it,Corbin, take that analogy and go
have a three-year-old heifer andtell me how that goes for you.
No problems ever, right?
Yeah.
Ever.
Mm-hmm.
They don't fall out at all.

(01:05:15):
Like Yeah.
Them, them cattle, we were, wewere rolling cattle from the
November herd we used to have tothe fall, and so we took two
years to do it.
We made'em marches or we, wemade'em.
Springs, then we made'em falls'cause we didn't want to go all
the way.
And we kept the heifers fromthat and just bred'em as falls.

(01:05:37):
So you aren't gonna breed like aseven month heifer, right?
Or an eight month heifer orwhatever she was.
You make her like cabinet 30months.
Those were all the longest livedcows in our herd.
You can, and I'm gonna tell yousomething, those ones that C at
30 months can flat raise one.
Oh yeah.
They can flat raise one.
It's, I've always wondered if weneed to review, review all the

(01:06:00):
economics of those.
Like there was this studieswhere a cow that Cavs at two,
you know, Cali Cavs at threewill never meet the lifetime
production of a 2-year-old.
I said, man, we need to restudythat because the investment cost
of these cattle is so much nowthem falling out earlier.
I think there's a hugedifference there.
What about, what about how we'rereally, we're really just

(01:06:21):
buttholes to these cows and ifthey come, come up open, we'll
get rid of'em.
So like we will have this heiferCabot too, and then she comes up
open as a wet too, and we getrid of her right away instead of
rolling her to the fall orspring.
Well, what I've noticed bykeeping that cow and just
letting her go be a cow, I mean,what I've, what I've done is
like, oh, I'm not keeping anyheifers out of her anymore.

(01:06:42):
I probably tried sticking embryoin her at some point.
Um, she becomes a commercial cowat that point.
Some of those cows end up beingsome of the better ones we have
around, I've got a couple herethat are, they raised a big
first calf and didn't breed backweaned the calf.
They've bred back every singletime, like a clock and, but you
always done a great job, butthey're forever discounted in

(01:07:03):
your mind.
You're never, you're never gonnalook.
You're Yeah, but you're nevergonna look at that cow, that
cow's potential as a donor isdone when she's showing me what
she can do and she's doing ityear in and year out.
That might give, might, so thatmight outweigh that.
She ra she raised an 800 poundbull calf for her first calf and
she didn't breed back.

(01:07:24):
Yeah.
So what you're saying is, isthis cow's eight at, what would
that make her like six?
It's like four or 12 orsomething.
4 12, 8.
What, where that, it's not 365is what I'm saying.
Right, right.
But she's raised eight calvesand she's 11 years old.
I mean, yeah.
It's interesting.
It's, it's a very interest me.
So do you guys think, do youthink as an industry we need a

(01:07:45):
mind set shift?
A little bit?
Like we're packing so muchgrowth into these cattle that
they need extra help, whetherit's minerals or development or,
I don't know.
I don't know what to do withthis topic.
Here's what I think, here's whatI think just came up.
What do you think?
I think a lot of it's not, Ithink a lot of what we're

(01:08:06):
having, like a lot of it is notgenetic.
A lot of it's not genetic.
I, I mean, I know.
It's interesting though.
Some of it is.
Some of it for sure, some is.
Some of it.
Some of it.
Because you'll get certain cowfamilies that breed no matter
what you do.
Yes, yes.
But what if some of them needfeed in a bad way?

(01:08:28):
High performance cattle needfeed in a bad way.
And then you have cattle thatcould look at grass and just
stay pig fat all the time.
Yeah.
And you know, if you're, if someof these high dollar seed
cattle, I mean, they gotta havefeed or they're gonna look like

(01:08:50):
a bag of bones and, and those,I, I think those EPDs that have
come up with, to get to theirfull potential, you have to feed
the snot out of them.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of animalsthat don't.
They may not have those numbersin those boxes, but when you
drive out in the field andthey're being treated exactly

(01:09:12):
like all the other ones andthey're just pig fat all the
time, I mean, there's somethingto be said for that.
So I've never been an advocatefor more and more EPDs.
I've been an advocate for theright ones, and I think this
original premise in theseventies or eighties when they
started at about a sanitizedenvironment and a vacuum pulling

(01:09:32):
environment out of it forpredicting the differences in
cattle.
At the time was appropriate, butnow we're at a place where
there's been so much marketingvalue attributed to those
numbers.
We've got to get back to whatcan we practically do with that
animal though, because maybethere's that much genetic
potential locked inside of'em,but there's not enough resources

(01:09:55):
for what our management is toget that out of those cattle.
And then ones that are over fatat your place, Vince, maybe they
need to be in a little bit morearid environment.
And the ones that are thin, youknow, maybe those are ones that
don't, you don't have enoughresources for.
And we really, I just think wedon't fully know all the damage

(01:10:18):
that we've done to the beefbusiness as an industry by
chasing the marketing value ofgenetic differences.
I think, I mean, it's sort oflike yields in the crop world, I
would guess.
I'm not a farmer, but it's like,man, we're gonna get this.
Whatever Bush will yield.
Weed It is, but you gotta putthis special ti fertilizer, then
you gotta put this specialfungicide.
Right.
Then you gotta put this specialthing and you'll get there.

(01:10:42):
But maybe you can't sustain allthe costs associated with it.
Correct.
And so it's on that balance.
Right.
And so on that you'll never getthere if it never rains.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
The point.
Yeah.
And you know who, you know whoends up catching the brunt end
of the, the bad end of all ofthat.
It's the unsuspecting commercialproducer.

(01:11:02):
Yeah.
Who's buying bulls, keepingheifers, ends up calling, having
to cull a bunch of wet twos andwet threes because they don't
breed back.
But that's so, so that's yourfault.
That's my fault.
That's Vince's fault.
Absolutely not my fault.
Absolutely.
See, you can have it all.
You can have that low birth and160 growth and you buy with

(01:11:24):
confidence.
This bull does it all.
You've now accepted theresponsibility of someone
potentially buying something.
Maybe it does fit their program,but maybe it don't too.
But how?
How is that fair if US three arenot the ones saying it, but the
bull studs are saying it becauseyou're not saying loud enough
that it's a problem.
We may not be saying that, thatthat's what it is, but then they

(01:11:47):
read the magazines and theywatch all these ads and you can
have it all.
Like he was just saying.
But that's not fair to us.
No, I think that's not fair tous that we've set that
precedent.
Right, and we didn't.
We didn't even do it.
No, I think that that's probablywhat I should have started with
Vince, is where we could startis, as a producer, you need to

(01:12:09):
not buy into that crap.
Oh yeah.
A hundred percent As a producercan buy into it.
But even if you have an animalthat is a low birth and a high
growth, because genomics saysthat it is, then people have
seen enough ads and seen enoughstuff like, like that.
That they think that that's whatit is.
What about when you go buy oneof these pig fat bulls we've
been talking about and he can'teven go breed cows because he

(01:12:33):
probably can't even pass a semencheck for one for two.
If he was to pass it, he's gonnago out there and breed four cows
or one cow and probably besadag.
I tired.
He is gonna have to go overthere and lay down for three
days.
Not to mention when a bull, we,we haven't even said this, how a
1500 or big fat yearling bullgoes and breeds a cow.
He go, there's a big chance theycould hurt themselves too.

(01:12:54):
Yeah, because you guys long wayup there for that little guy.
And if he's fat than a town dogand can't even move.
Yeah.
But he's, and then he is notgonna hold up.
He's gonna become a bag of skinand bones and you're gonna get a
phone call.
This bull didn't hold up, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
They, and, and I'm gonna tellyou a secret too, they don't
extend as well.
No, they don't.
Probably not.
They don't come out of theirsheath and extend like a bull

(01:13:16):
that's, that's in work in shapedoes.
It's just the libido's notthere.
Right.
There's so many reasons againstit, but we don't give a crap.
We're gonna feed'em.
We're gonna get'em pig fatbecause they're gonna look cool.
And they do look cool.
They do look cool.
And have you noticed how acamera can take so much weight
off one?
That's the other problem.
No.

(01:13:37):
Camera adds 10 pounds.
That's what I've always been,that's why I look so big right
now.
I'm really not this big.
The camera, Vince, Vince, putyour shirt back on All it
camera.
The camera is adding 10 pounds.
If I take pictures of some of myfattest cows on my phone and
look at'em and then I go look atthe pictures I see on Facebook,
I'm like, holy cat.

(01:13:59):
She must be really fat.
Like really, really, really fatto look that way.
But this is the part I wanted toask you guys.
'cause I felt like we were kindof done in that vein, unless you
had more.
Do you feel like there's ashift, like we're moving in a
positive direction or a negativedirection in the purebred
industry on development ofcattle and seed stock and stuff?

(01:14:21):
I don't know if there's a shiftor if we are just seeing people
that were always there that wenever saw.
Hmm.
Does that make sense?
Here's what I think.
Here's what I think.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Interesting to think about.
'cause everybody can marketanything now that we have social
media.
'cause the people that, thepeople that we, you, or that I

(01:14:44):
used to think did a really goodjob by getting'em pig fat all
the time, they're still making'em pig fat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm seeing a whole differentarray of people that are
actually making good animals andnot overfeeding them.
And not underfeeding them.
And I, I almost think there's adifferent set of people.
Do you think it's, you thinkit's a different, you think you,

(01:15:07):
we've entered a different realm.
Yeah.
I think the deal is, is, is Ithink that we're the multiverse.
We're figuring out that we'rethe minority and we're starting
to all find each other.
Yeah.
We're all becoming friends.
We, we've entered a newmultiverse.
Yeah.
But you know, if you're a newbreeder, what's the quickest way
to distinguish yourself fromeveryone else?
Breed numbers and get'em fat.

(01:15:28):
Yeah.
It's not to say, look at mybulls are ready to work for you
guys, and somebody's gonna go,whoa, these things are lighter
than anything I've ever seen, aprogram I've never heard of and
a set of jeans I've never heardof.
I'm gonna take a risk on that.
So it's like this one-up thatjust starts keep, I mean, I
think that that's probably thehardest thing to stay
disciplined as a young, oremerging, I wanna say emerging

(01:15:52):
breeder.
'cause some of them aren't youngin age, you know?
Like, how are you gonnadifferentiate yourself?
How are you gonna get a look?
Um, I think it's really, reallydifficult.
It is.
Having a sail is a absolutelyhorrible.
Yeah, because you feel that youhave to get'em fat to get a good
picture, to get a good video, toget, to get people interested.

(01:16:14):
They're gonna go over yourneighbor's that was sail this
before or after wherever andwell, I was just over at so and
so's and his cattle look waybetter than your cattle did, and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That's especially bad too, whenyou get in those places where
there's, there's a purebredranch, purebred ranch every 15
miles on the interstate.
Like if you go into the Dakotaswhere you got, there's so many

(01:16:37):
of those breed, right?
And the, there's so manycommercial guys all around them
and they're selling, you know,that commercial guy's buying
eight bulls for themselves.
You go from one place to theother and you can really tell
which one's ratcheting it up,which one's throwing'em the
goods and, and which one'sgreen, which ones are green and,
and like, it's just really, it'sreally fascinating to me, the

(01:17:00):
nuances.
Yeah, I think, uh.
I think that's tough.
And I think that even socialmedia between the catalog
design, the videography, the,all those things we're putting
ourselves at a valuation, we'reattributing value to our
programs based upon people thataren't our customers.

(01:17:23):
Yeah.
Like we have these theories,we're looking and we're looking
for valid, for validation frompeople that don't matter.
Yeah.
People that won't write a check.
People who genuinely aren't yourfriends.
Uh, people who are okay with youbeing successful until you're
too successful.
Um, and so I, I don't know.
I found that with our deal hereis I just said, you know, I'm

(01:17:43):
really gonna hone in on thepeople who make our deal run and
make sure that we listen tothem, that we have relationships
with them and you know.
There's a, um, a friend of mineis from South Dakota, TJ
Gabriel, and I wanna say it waslast year TJ had a big time mail
snafu, like a bad, bad one withthe postal service.

(01:18:05):
And, and I don't remember allthe details and so I apologize,
TJ if I, if I bought it, butwe're talking a week out and
customers did not have catalogsshut down if something bad
happened.
I don't know if they lost a boxor several boxes, but it was a
mess.
And I know because we share acatalog design artist and, and

(01:18:26):
they were doing everything theycould.
His sale did not miss a beat.
His sale did not miss a beat.
He picked up the phone, he textsome people, he called some
people, he had some, uh, I thinkthey got some overruns made and
some actual catalogs.
Maybe he printed some on paperand handed them out sale day.
But when you really dive intothose things, I think we need to

(01:18:46):
really explore.
Are we building these catalogsto appease our own ego?
Or are we trying to message toour customer?
And, and I'll tell you guys,that's something that I've
waffled in in our deal.
I take a lot of pride in how weput together our catalog, and
I've had to say, is it amessaging piece to our customers
or is it something that I'mlooking approval for from my

(01:19:07):
peers in the business?
And, and you've seen a big timeshift in our catalog since I've
said it's a messaging piece toour active customers.
We do stuff differently than weused to.
And, um, I don't know.
I guess I, I feel like, uh,Corbin, you really, really did
that.
We use the same kind of, we usethe same artist and they're good
at telling our story like that.

(01:19:29):
And, and Vince, I, last year youmade the move just on your
cover, I think, um, was justkind of a nod to the history.
And then you talked about yourdad and stuff.
I really encourage people, ifyou do sell a program and you
sell a story, tell it.
Yeah, use, use your messaging totell that because you're selling
more than a fat bull on a page.

(01:19:51):
You are selling more than that.
I want them to, I wanna try tobe personal.
I want everyone that, that looksat our catalog and we're kind of
off in the weeds here, butthat's okay.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
I want every person that looksat my catalog to come away
feeling like they know me betterthan they did going in.
And I feel like they, they knowour breeding goals by looking at

(01:20:11):
our catalog.
They know who I am as a person.
I want them to see my family andrealize that we have more in
common than they might otherwisethink.
And I just, I, I think thatresonating with them in that way
is, is one of the main goals.
And also showcase, you know,it's also a point of reference
for when they're buying bullstoo.

(01:20:31):
So you have to keep that in mindtoo.
But, uh, well, we, I think weall three have very similar
taste in cattle.
I think we all three have very.
Different catalogs.
Mm-hmm.
And even though you two guys usethe same person, and I don't

(01:20:53):
even, I don't think that any ofit's bad.
Um, I think, like I heard a few,uh, several people tell me,
well, Joe didn't even put anypictures in his catalog, but he
didn't need to.
Over here, I almost feel theneed to take pictures.
Yeah.
And put'em in the catalog.

(01:21:13):
And then footnotes, footnotesand footnotes and I I, and
support pictures of the mothersand the grandmothers.
And, you know, it can be a lot,you know, I take pride in, in
trying to describe the animalmore so than say, Hey, this is
what she sold in progeny, sortof a deal.
And that that gets old that, oh,this is the a hundred thousand

(01:21:35):
dollars daughter or son of the,it's gross.
Let's just gross.
It gets old.
It really gets old.
And at some point it's just,especially, especially when
we're selling commercial bullsinto, into that.
Correct.
I mean, what does the commercialguy care that you sold a hundred
thousand dollars daughter outthat his sire or that the sire

(01:21:57):
was a top selling bull as a suchand such 25 sale or whatever?
Who cares who care?
The good specimen or not think,describe, let's do a footnote,
footnotes episode.
Well, I think the footnotesshould say everything that you
can't see in the catalog or youcan't see in person.
And so that's how I use them.
And for my commercial guy or orwoman, they want to know things

(01:22:22):
that are gonna have value tothem and absolutely.
I think that some people though,in how they market, there are
expectations set.
Like if I buy this heifer thathas from this family tribe that
has had these accoladesfinancially, that is my goal is
to sell her in a female salelater or her embryos.
So that's where the expectationgets set, and that's why people

(01:22:44):
do that now.
Do the expectations that you setforth match your customer.
I think that that's when you getall those things to match and
jive, then you get to thedifferences that Vince spoke of
in our three catalogs that, um,you know, I don't feel like
either of the three of us wouldever say we want a customer to

(01:23:06):
show up and buy our top bullthat we don't share morals or
ethics with.
Um, we want them to buy into ourfamily, not as a shtick, but as
a glimpse at who we are and ourcommitment to the products we
produce, right?
And so if, if you don't valuethose things.
We aren't gonna chase you off,but we hope that over time we

(01:23:28):
attract a lot of people whovalue the same things we do.
And you know what?
I think those people, Corbin,invest themselves longer term
into your program and they rootfor you and they want you to be
successful because they knowthat you want them to be
successful too.
For a long time, you said to me,um, your customers start to look

(01:23:52):
and resemble you.
And I, I never really understoodwhat that meant until I started
taking the time to really investinto my cust into the customers
that come buy bulls and reallytake a step back and look at who
that is.
How many of them wear gym shortsand slides to your sale?
They don't do that.
They don't do that.

(01:24:13):
But I will say that a, a lot ofthem don't tuck their shirts in.
A lot of'em.
Don't shave every day.
A lot of'em wear dirty hats andt-shirts and they're just blue
collar people.
Um, not many suits and ties.
Walk into our, walk, into our,well, and I stole that from my
partner Tim.
'cause he observed that at asimile sale one time.

(01:24:34):
He just said, he goes, man,so-and-so's, and I won't say the
guy's name, but his customersstarted looking like him.
Like he's one of those guys thathas the glasses down on his
nose, and he's a big, he's a bigdata guy, and they're looking
into data and he is like, hiscustomers weren't looking at the
bulls.
They're looking at all the dataand all the things he wrote and
yeah, that's, that's who you'llattract over time, right?

(01:24:56):
Yeah.
I mean, Vince, what you'resaying is if you come to my
sale, you're gonna see a bunchof six four fat guys.
Pocket tees, is that what you'resaying?
She on them?
Yeah.
Yes, yes.
And grinder holes on the belly.
Oh yeah.
I, I threw those shirts away theother day and I was torn.
I put'em in the garbage and get'em back out and put'em in the

(01:25:17):
garbage.
I what if I need them one day?
So how about this?
I gotta go pick up horses inIdaho in the morning.
I'm leaving super early and Igotta go breed some cows right
now.
But we've, we have not touchedon one of the most important
parts of this episode.
What, how about the brilliancein marketing?
That was around the Colorado onthe, around.
That was funny.

(01:25:38):
That was funny.
The what?
His post, his reel, our firstreel, Colorado.
I, I made, uh, there were somecustomers requesting because
Nate opened his big fat mouth.
About my truck being nasty.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Is this a spoiler?
Not customer.
Not customer.
Is this a spoiler alert?
No, I did, I was making a videoand he made me stop.

(01:26:00):
He said, you're not gonna getthe, you're not, you're not
gonna get the full nastinesswith the way you're doing it.
So I quit making the video.
I mean, did, did Blake say, Hey,will this camera pick up smell?
No.
Blake wasn't there.
Blake wasn't there.
But, um, the people want a ShadyBrook video.

(01:26:22):
The people demand, they demand,they demand a video on the way
to the bistro where Blake isshowing you the last picture of
a semi or tag cutting project.
The people are demanding.
Vince, we can, uh, jump therailroad tracks on the way to
the bistro.

(01:26:42):
That would be great.
Gentlemen, I hope we didn't beataround the bushes too much.
I think we covered some funstuff.
Anything Vince you felt like wemissed?
No.
Well you know what we shouldhave talked about was breeding
cows because we're all breedingcows right now.
Maybe next time cow protocols wecould probably talk next.
We probably still could nexttime.
I think it might percent.

(01:27:04):
I'm, I'm not, we just seededyesterday so I'm not breeding
for another couple weeks.
So if you just seeded yesterday,you'll be ordering semen in 17
days.
'cause that's what I do.
No, I got caught with 20 cows inheat and no semen for them'cause
I'm a bone head.
Okay.
You and Colin Davis.

(01:27:24):
Joe, he just texted me.
I bought, I don't have anysemen.
Mike Pepper.
I bought a bunch of junctionsemen if you need something,
Joe.
Conjunction Junction a bunch.
I bought a bunch, like four or500 units.
Four, 500 units.
288.
Good Lord.
So I was snooping around onthat.
I was snooping around on that.

(01:27:45):
Bud KO's, uh, registrations ofwhich they aren't all complete
yet, by the way, but I wassnooping around this morning and
found some junction.
1 24 son of 30 15 stuff inthere.
Yeah, yeah.
He sold the sun to Ross lastyear, remember there's, yeah.
And there was another one too.
So, yeah.
Interesting time to What if Itold you Bud bought some

(01:28:08):
junction semen with me, likepartnership?
Well, I only got a, I said, Isaid if I bought all this, do
you want something?
He is like, well, heck yeah,I'll take half of it.
So that's what happened.
So you got, you got, I actuallyat 560 units.
No, I bought 288 and he took ahundred.
So I actually lied, I actuallylied about every single bit of

(01:28:30):
that.
But to.
I talked to him for like two,two minutes and 16 seconds this
morning.
Is it me or is it me or is Budreal high energy?
Oh my God, he's pretty highenergy.
The dude has a lot of energy.
It is Bud High Energy because I,that's what I picked.
High energy.
They were freeze.
Brandon Bulls today and he ishigh energy.

(01:28:53):
With one hand.
Yeah.
With one hand.
He's like, ah, geez.
Broke my arm.
Guess I'll have to use the otherone.
My new titanium knee.
I never got to ask him.
Did he just have like rotatorcuff surgery or what was his
deal?
He smooshed him.
The cow smooshed him.
Was his arm in the cow?
No, his arm was in between thegate, the pout gate.

(01:29:14):
Oh wow.
And come backed into it.
Crushed him.
No way.
Yeah, no it did.
He's not supposed to lift over20 pounds for like, I think he
said, I don't wanna lie.
He's a long time.
There's no way he's listening toThat is so hard.
That is so hard.
A long time to not a long timepick away.
He's not.
But no, right now, I don't eventhink he's supposed to move it
right now.
Don't him and Scott eat thatmuch hamburger for lunch.

(01:29:36):
That's what I'm saying.
Bernie was telling me they eatlike two, three pounds of
hamburger every lunch.
Oh my God.
That's the best time to getahold of him.
This is a round Bud Al's placenow around the ALS with Corbin,
Vince and Joe.
Uh, all righty.
Are we outta here?
We're outta here boys.
Take it away.
Tumor.
Catch y'all next time.

(01:30:01):
We will see you next time aroundthe shoot.