Navigating Bull Sales: Tips, Tricks and Trends

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In this episode, the hosts discuss various aspects of bull sales, including private treaty, consignment, and production sales. They delve into the benefits and challenges of each method, emphasizing the importance of advertising, customer relationships, and proper pricing. Personal anecdotes and practical tips are shared to help breeders make informed decisions. The hosts also express gratitude towards listeners and supporters, especially during tough personal times.

Episode Transcript

vince_2_02-28-2025_190 (00:00):
Alright, we're rolling.

(00:00):
Everybody ready

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (00:01):
David?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (00:02):
now.
Call David.
Hey everybody.
Welcome to the, around theshoot.
What have you guys been up to?
Corbin?
You've had nothing going on,have you?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (00:11):
No, we had a bull sail.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (00:13):
Did you,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (00:14):
We had us a

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (00:14):
did, did your dad call David or what?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (00:16):
My dad had already called David.
So this is a funny story andit's, it, it's worth repeating
'cause it's one that I thinkwe'll remember as long as I'll
be alive, um, sitting up on theblock because our auctioneer,
Mark Sims, who did a really goodjob and I'm really thankful for
him being there.
About 30 minutes before thesale, he was like, Hey man, do

(00:37):
you mind sitting up on the blockand saying a few things about
some of these bulls?
Which, what would y'all do inthat situation?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (00:47):
Dude, you couldn't drag me up there to
say anything.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (00:52):
I feel like Joe would get up there
and talk.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (00:55):
Joe does get up there and talk.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (00:56):
I have

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (00:56):
did this year.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (00:57):
the first time.
That's how it happened.
The first time I did it, it waslike 15, 30 minutes before he is
like, Hey, uh, we're gonna needsome help because it's the first
time we've had a sale on a videoand I don't have a video screen
and I've scored some of thesebulls, but somebody's gonna have
to talk'em, do you have goodnotes?
And I'm like,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:15):
None.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:15):
I don't.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:16):
None.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:17):
None.
But you know what?
Your people want to hear fromyou.
They want to hear from

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:21):
Don't you think y'all listened to it,
if not all, but part of it?
It, it was pretty natural doingit that

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:27):
It was

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:28):
it, there was no BS to it.
It's not like I was gonna

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:31):
I,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:31):
up there and read off EPDs because
I literally didn't even havetime to go find which ones I
would've highlighted anyways.
So it

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:40):
dude,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:42):
from the soul, I guess you'd say.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:44):
I would be up there projectile
vomiting, just

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:48):
okay.
So

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:49):
the crowd.
It'd be terrible.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:51):
Back to the story

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:53):
You yelled at your dad.
That's the first thing I heard.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:55):
I had, David Cray had called me
before the sale and said, Hey, Iwanna be on the phone.
I don't wanna be online.
I don't want to be on the phonewith someone else.
I wanna be on the phone.
I said, okay, well, I'll handleyou.
Well then 30 minutes before thesale, I had to pass that off to
somebody.
And, um, I think we would allhave our reservations about
handing off an order to our dad.

(02:17):
I mean, it's, it's not anythingagainst him.
It's just like, it's my dad, youknow?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (02:23):
Oh, I've, I've handed off orders to
a David before too, uh, it for,for 20 years now.
uh, we've started out, you know,like, it it, if you prepare them
though.
And, and so what I do now, mydad's David Fisher online there,
now my cover's blown.
You guys see'em with horse airpictures in his breakfast and

(02:45):
the rain in Paloma,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (02:46):
How would they have ever guessed
that his last name is Fisher?
After you said David?
I mean, I think they'd havegotten that.
He's gonna get berated now.
He's gonna get so many friendrequests.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (02:56):
they're gonna slide into the dms like
the algorithm.

korbin_2_02-28-2025 (02:58):
Absolutely.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (03:00):
Yeah, that'll come later.
So, uh, so I just prep him.
I just prep him and actuallyCorman my dad, which your dad
can do the same now.
Dad just calls those people anhour before the sale and
establishes the relationship.
And there's people, dad's beenbuying for, for 10, 15 years
that are orders of mine, thatknow my dad.
And it's a good relationship andknows that they're gonna treat

(03:22):
it like it's his own.
And he, he'll handle quite a fewat our sale.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (03:25):
Well, and now, now I don't have to
wonder, I had to, another guy hehad to be on the phone with and
oh, by the way, the other guy mydad had to be on the phone with
is the coolest person you'veever met in your whole life.
So picture, you know how likeit's 2025 and we don't really
wear cowboy outfits like we didin the 18 hundreds, whether

(03:47):
you're wearing full leather and.
You've got holes in your pantsand it's like a burn hole.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (03:54):
Joe does

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (03:55):
Joe's pretty ranchy, but he's like,
clean ranchy.
This guy, like was, he had agoatee that was like six inches
long and he, I, I shook his handand his pinky did not move.
So like I shook four fingers andthe other one stayed in his
hand.

(04:16):
It was crazy.
But this guy was freakingawesome and he bought, he bought
two bulls and I got to meet himand my dad handled him on the
phone.
so, yeah,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (04:26):
came like the night before Corbin or
something.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (04:28):
he looked at the videos.
I had talked to him four or fivetimes separately.
He was, I'll tell you what, hewas scared he was gonna get
sick.
He was an older gentleman anduh, he had some hunters come out
and they had, they had had theflu and they had been in the
hospital and so he was justuncomfortable being in the
social, I.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (04:47):
right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (04:48):
So he just handled it all over the
phone and through video.
But, um, it was, it was like a,like a character from gun smoke.
Like seriously?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (04:57):
So this is a new customer too,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (04:59):
Oh yeah.
Well, I had sold bulls to hisson, but never, which his son's
name Max and he builds, uh,builds a But he might be
listening.
I don't think so, but I can tellyou that Mike will never hear
this conversation.
And if he did, he would make medelete it.
He'd be like, I don't want myinformation out on the
interwebs.

(05:19):
I don't want none of that

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (05:21):
on those internets.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (05:21):
out

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (05:22):
Does, does he wear an armadillo
helmet?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (05:26):
No.
He had a crushed cowboy hat withsweat rings.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (05:30):
That's the best ones.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (05:31):
Yeah, you could tell it had, it had
been thrown down and disgustedand cussed and many of sweats
through it.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (05:40):
Uh.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (05:41):
Did you think you did a better job on
the block with your sales stuffthis year than last year?
Corbin?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (05:47):
Well, one thing, one thing it
definitely does is, is, is beingup there k kept me engaged and
so I could kind of engage withthe customers.
Whereas last year it was prettymuch you're just standing around
that you don't have really anytasks.
Um, all it did was add to theanxiety, but sitting up there,
when you've got something thatyou have to complete, you can't

(06:09):
sit around, pace around and benervous.
You, literally have got a job todo.
So that, that, think thathelped.
And I also think it'll, it'llend up helping build the rapport
with my customers to where theycan trust what I'm saying.
And, and, I, I'm sitting upthere with the opportunity to
say, to say a million things,and if I sit up there and they

(06:31):
buy a bull and what I say whileI'm sitting up there is exactly
what they're getting, then Ithink that just creates the
opportunity for even deeperrelationships that, and building
that trust.
It is just so important.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (06:44):
liked it.
liked it because I could, Ididn't always get who was the
second place buyer, but I couldsee where action was on a lot of
bulls.
And then it just made me do abetter job of, sometimes I've,
I, I'm ashamed to say this, I'vehad people show up at the sale,
sign up for buyer numbers andnever know they were there

(07:04):
before because the crowd is sobig and there's so much chaos.
And so when I was on the blockand I'm kind of up there, I
mean, it was, it was full focuson the lot coming, if I have to
say something, being preparedthose things, but being able to
see where the.
The action was coming from andbeing able to make eye contact
with those people and then thank'em and say, I would make notes

(07:25):
like lot 18.
So Kathleen was runner up, and Iwould go and I would thank her.
I would say, Hey, you know what,thanks a lot for doing that.
And, um, I don't know, I thinkthe second place person's
sometimes just as important asthe first, I mean, to

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (07:38):
Well,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (07:38):
I mean, and it gives you a good measure
on level of action too.
When you see that lot one bullcome in and 15 people raise
their card, it's like, okay, youknow, we, we've got some
excitement on what we do as aprogram.
Um, I just appreciated thatwhole different vantage point.
And I, I liked being out in thecrowd when I was out there too.

(07:59):
What, what do you do, Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (08:01):
I sit out in the crowd.
I,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (08:03):
Do you.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (08:03):
I just kind of sit over there to
the, we've got a big roll updoor and, um, sometimes I'm
having to be outside on thephone with a guy, but I have to
step outside'cause I don't havegood service in the barn.
And, um, I need to be able towhere I can do that sometimes.
And, um, but most of the time Ijust either stand there or sit

(08:24):
at a table and just my, my notesand I can't see what's going on.
Like you're saying though.
Because I'm way behindeverybody.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (08:33):
Yeah.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (08:34):
I don't like that.
I really wish I could see, so Icould thank people, you know,
because, you know, like yousaid, you the second place guys
is important because you can'tget to 10,000 if nobody's
bidding against the guy willingto go to 10,000.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (08:53):
that's right.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (08:54):
you gotta, you gotta have two
people,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (08:56):
do you, do you have anybody that ever
needs help, Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (08:59):
like,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (09:00):
On the phone.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (09:01):
an older gentleman, bill Crook,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (09:03):
oh, like to keep up with where
they're at in the now.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (09:06):
And

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (09:06):
Nobody asks

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (09:08):
for 15 years, I would go sit next to
Bill.
He would, we would come up witha game plan for him with first
tier, second tier, secondchoices and budgets and all
that.
And I would help him through theprocess'cause he couldn't keep
up with the auctioneer.
And I'd be like, no, no, you'rein, you're in.
Just relax.
We're good.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (09:26):
right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (09:27):
You know, or you know what, just
hold off.
We've got more of these brotherscoming or whatever I needed to
do to help him.
Well he's since passed away and,and I end up just kind of
keeping track of prices.
And there are some times though,because we break ours up 30
bulls, 30 Angus bulls, then 30sim Angus bulls that are Tim's,
then 30 Angus bulls that aremine.

(09:47):
Um.
Just'cause we've always brokenup that way, or 60 of mine, I
guess it is.
So there's a break.
Well, some of those people,their first choices are gone and
they'll start scrambling over tome and they'll be like, Hey,
what do we do?
And I'm like, well go to thispen over here and go look at
this one and this one if I, if Ineed to reassure'em.
So directing traffic, I, I likebeing on the floor for

vince_2_02-28-2025_1905 (10:06):
Mm-hmm.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (10:07):
but I think I preferred being on the
block and being able to be thevoice of what those cattle were.
And um, did have one time, a, abull get, uh, uh, a resource son
that was a pretty doggone nicebull that was a two on birth.
And in the catalog we didn'thave him as a listed as a heifer
bull.
And he was represented as aheifer bull, not by me, but just

(10:28):
off the microphone.
And that always kind of sat inmy stomach funny.
So I had to run down thatcustomer and I said, Hey, I
heard this said over, you know,were you intending on using this
bull for heifers?
'cause I wouldn't recommendthat.
And they said, no, we were gonnause him on cows.
And so it ended up being okay,but.
If, if I'm up there with amicrophone, I could stop that
and I could say, no, no, no.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (10:48):
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (10:49):
That's my fault.
You know, let's correct this andmake sure people are getting
what they think they're getting.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (10:54):
One thing I always wondered about,
and I don't know that it's, itis or it's not, but I always
wondered if it may be somepeople got uncomfortable because
you're kind of looking at'em ifthey're bidding.
And I, I wouldn't ever wantanybody to feel that way here.

(11:15):
You know, bid if you want tobid, don't.
And if you don't, I mean,that's, it's not gonna make me
get upset with you.
You know what I mean?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (11:25):
I don't think that people really
took it that way with me beingup there and, and helping with
the sale.
Now, if you were just sitting upthere

vince_2_02-28-2025_1905 (11:31):
Staring at him.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (11:32):
saying anything and just not part of
the sale, that, that might havethat effect.
But I think as long as you're upthere and you're contributing,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (11:39):
Yeah.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (11:39):
I think, I think it sure made me
feel like people were morecomfortable with what, what
their

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (11:44):
Right,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (11:45):
um, and, and being able to, to
accurately describe the cattle.
As I see them and as I've raisedthem, because there's not, let's
face it, there's not anybodythat's been around them as many
times as I have and knows asmuch about each one of them,

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (12:00):
right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (12:01):
or their grandmas.
Um, so I think it really gave mea chance to resonate with them.
But who

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (12:07):
Well, good.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (12:08):
it made any difference at all?
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (12:10):
what about our listener that would
not be comfortable like Vince atall?
Not gonna, not my cup of tea.
It's not what I want to do.
That's a surface a service I'dlike to hire out.
you have someone sit on yourblock

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (12:24):
Yep.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (12:24):
the cattle, how do those
conversations go?
I mean, the person you've beenusing, you've been using for
years and they know yourprogram.
But, um, maybe talk through thatfor some people that don't want
to talk on mic.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (12:35):
So I know Jeremy will get here ahead
of time, and either he goes byhimself or I go with him.
If I'm busy, he'll go byhimself.
Uh, I point him where the cattleare and he goes and he finds
every cow and he makes notes onevery cow, every bull.

(12:56):
And if he can't find one, he'llcome, Hey, I didn't find 24 a.
Where's this thing at?
Or whatever.
And, um, he, he makes his noteswell, so he can talk about the
cattle.
Um.
Yeah, but he also knows, likeyou're saying, he knows my

(13:16):
program, so he knows the mothersof some, you know, a lot of this
stuff, especially my donors, uh,and the grandmothers and, and
he's been doing it a long time,so he has a lot of history with
the cow families and, and thingslike that.
So I think that makes it easierfor a guy like him, especially
that does it all the time.

(13:36):
Um, but I have had people in thepast that didn't really know my
program, and they look at thecattle and they go up there and
they talk about what they see,but they can't really talk about
the mother or the grandmother,um, or maybe some full brothers

(13:57):
or something like that.
Um, so I, I think that if youhired out.
I think you've got to trust theperson and I think you've got to
have a good relationship with'em.
And I think they have to come,you know, other than sail day go
through your herd.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (14:16):
They

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (14:17):
think you Yeah, they gotta know the
cattle, they gotta know whatyou're thinking, what you're
wanting in your breedingprogram.
You have to talk to'em more thansail day.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (14:26):
other, otherwise what are you paying
them for?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190 (14:30):
Exactly.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (14:31):
all you're getting

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (14:32):
That's right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (14:33):
So what I'm also, I'm also hearing you
say is like arm those peoplewith the information you want
them to convey to your customerstoo, right?

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (14:41):
Right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (14:42):
Yep.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (14:43):
You help

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (14:43):
this cow, this cow's fixing to be
pathfinder.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (14:47):
right?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (14:48):
she does a good job.
I can go show you her otherstuff.
Here's one of her sons thatwe're getting ready to sell,
blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
And, and that's, that's on me.
I have to relay that kind ofstuff.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (15:02):
So what, where you may not be the
one shooting the arrow, you'restill the one that's gotta load
that arrow and pull the, pullthe bow back.
Give that guy the tools to beable to do it.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (15:11):
Right.
And I don't know that I doreally good at that,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (15:15):
Now

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (15:15):
but we'll see.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (15:18):
that you've

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (15:19):
you're gonna have someone on the block,
it's probably, I mean, I would,I would say that most of them
would prefer to have moreinformation than less.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (15:28):
Yes.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (15:29):
use less.
I mean,

korbin_2_02-28-2025 (15:30):
absolutely.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (15:30):
want to just take those people for
granted and throw'em to thewolves and then be upset when
they don't represent somethingcorrectly.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (15:37):
And you have to listen to your
customers too, because I had,um, some guys here before that
were very professional andnothing against them.
They did a good job, but mycustomers were not comfortable
with them because they dressedvery well.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (15:56):
Mm-hmm.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (15:57):
Sport coat ties, things like that.
And.
Some of my customers weren'tcomfortable with them and they
did nothing wrong.
It was just my customers,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (16:10):
I

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (16:10):
you know?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (16:11):
if they came to, to where we have
our sale in Toco, Oklahoma with,with sport coats and ties on, it
would definitely negativelyimpact our sale.
I mean,

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (16:22):
Right.
And that's fine.
It doesn't bother me.
But my point is they did nothingwrong, but, you know, but tried
to look professional and bring aprofessional, um, aspect to it.
And you know, some places arenot that way.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (16:41):
But isn't that what you just said?
You, you led with know yourcustomers.
You know, don't, don't invite ofyour customers and feed'em
chicken if you know that they'reexpecting beef.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (16:53):
right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (16:54):
know, like know those people and know
what they expect and know whatthey're comfortable with because
if you want to make them feelcomfortable at your place, you
probably ought to do thosethings.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (17:04):
That's right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (17:04):
be in order.
you guys know, uh, if we'relacking a little bit of energy,
Corbin, what's our specialannouncement?
Radio feedback, stepping on eachother.
We're really just suck at it.
Right?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (17:18):
Well, I knew.
So the, the first coupleepisodes, I really did feel like
we, we had a problem with it,and it was like something we
needed to work on, something weneeded to change.
The second episode was like,man, we did it again, the third
episode.
were very conscientious.
We did not talk over each otherone time, and then what did we

(17:39):
hear whenever we were recording?
It was still doing it.
And so at the end of the day, wemight have been self-conscious
about speaking over each otherand thinking we did a terrible
job on maybe, maybe it wasn'tour fault from the start.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (17:54):
No, there was definitely, I.
Some issues with the platformbecause I, I know for a fact
there was a couple places I wasvery delayed in my answers to
you guys.
You ask a question, then I, youstarted talking again and then
like three seconds later Ianswered it.
Um, and there was some placesthere that I know for a fact we

(18:15):
didn't talk over each other andwe were, um, so hopefully the
listeners will forgive us and,and keep, keep bearing with us.
We may have to change platforms.
Who knows?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (18:26):
Keep pressing play.
We said it on the first episode,or I know I said it.
Um, keep

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (18:32):
Stay tuned.
It'll get better.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (18:34):
it'll get better.
I mean, we're, we're just like,literally, I came in from going
up to Live Wire, which is a big,uh, electric fence store north
of here.
I came in, Paxton has his roomset up.
Uh, he knew I was coming in hot,had the recording studio all set
up.
Vince is taking a phone callwhile Corbin and I are coming up
with this, this episode.

(18:54):
Spa, fake commercial.
I mean like

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (18:57):
Those commercials are fake.
Those commercials are fake.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:01):
no,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (19:02):
What?
No, it's not a fake

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (19:04):
don't you dare say that.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:06):
is a good outfit.
They're in your sale book,Corbin.
I saw'em.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (19:09):
Yeah.
Do you know who's, you know whothe CEO of never get their
trucking is?
It's me.
I'm delivering everything in oursale except for one guy.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:19):
by the way?
So let's, let's talk about salessome more.
Corbin, you're frozen though.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (19:24):
No, he is not.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:25):
had your sale at a sale barn,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (19:26):
Yes.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:27):
so those bulls gotta leave.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (19:28):
Yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (19:29):
do you deal with deliveries?
Do you send'em back home?
What are you doing?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (19:33):
Well, as soon as the sale's over, by
the time I got out there thistime, everybody that was gonna
load out had already loaded out.
we let the sale barn handle partof the help they hired, they
brought in 10 people to run theback and, and that was a great
investment because I, I, at theend of the day, they're around
cows all the time and I couldhave sent people back there, but

(19:57):
whenever you get right down toit, I don't know that I know 10
people that I could send backthere that don't need to be
inside with me anyways.
it's just, it's just easier tohire those guys.
They did a good, oh, go ahead,Vince.
What?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (20:08):
Well, I was gonna say, and they're
familiar with the facilities.
That's, that's even moreimportant that they're familiar
with the facilities.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (20:17):
Yeah.
But anyway, so they had, uh,they had them, uh, all the ones
that, that picked them up, sailday.
They had loaded'em out and theywere gone by the time I got
around there to help.
Uh, last year I helped load abunch of'em, but this year, by
the time, I think it was 13 heador something like that, out of
a, which out of a 36 sale, 36head sales quite a bit, they

(20:40):
were gone and loaded out anddriven off before I even got the
chance to talk to'em.
Or lot of people were ready toget their bull and get outta
there, which I, I appreciate ahundred percent, but they were
able to load those out.
And then once they got doneloading those out, I loaded up
the rest of the bulls and tookthem back home and put'em where
they, where they were to be, tobe delivered at a later date.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (21:02):
We used to do that, um, in
Columbia, Columbia's hour fromhere.
Um, we used to haul'em up there,had a, had a sale barn, a very
nice sale barn.
It was fairly new at the time.
And like you say, I mean, Iwould rent the barn.
They would supply the help.
I didn't have to worry about anyof that stuff.
Those guys knew the facilitiesand, um.

(21:26):
But like you say, having to haul'em up there and then having to
haul the ones that don't leavethat day back home and maybe you
deliver a lot of'em to some ofyour neighbors by your house,
you know?
Um, it was an added on one hand,it was nice.
You just show up, everything'sclean, everything is set up for

(21:48):
you, and then you walk away.
You don't have to cleaneverything up, you don't have to
worry about your help and allthat good stuff.
So there is some of that.
That's very nice.
Um, but tr the trucking and thestress on the bulls is a little
bit too, to be honest.
Did you like that?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (22:09):
I'm

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (22:09):
Running

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (22:10):
That's okay.
No, no, no.
Did you like having it at thesale barn?
I know you don't have anotherchoice, but if, if you had a
choice at your house, would yourun'em there?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (22:22):
Yeah.
And I do a video self.
I had the choice.
I, if I had a, if I had to builda facility, I wouldn't build
something to run'em through.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (22:29):
Right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (22:29):
And that has a lot to do with help
too.
I mean, for that you have tohire a, I mean, but since the
sale barn's there and the, and

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (22:36):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (22:37):
there, it's a no brainer because if, if
we were gonna have a video sale,we'd have to bring in a TV and
do all of that, because none ofthat, the, the sale barn's not
set up for any of that.
So yeah, we're gonna, gonna run'em through at the sale barn,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (22:49):
How far away is it?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (22:51):
luckily it's 15 minutes from my

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (22:53):
Oh my.
I wouldn't build a facility,would you?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (22:57):
uh, if

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (22:58):
I.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (22:58):
uh, if you turn down the, the road
to go to our sale barn see thosehouses that are right there, and
it's kind of in a really, reallycrummy part of town, I don't
know that you really lose, Idon't know that I really lose
anything by people making thatleft turn into there.
But I think, think if this, ifour outfit ever got big, and I

(23:19):
never, I don't think it's goingto, it's just, I, I, I don't
think I have that really in meto be that.
if it was going to, and you hadof these, some, like if the
crowd changed and you made thatleft turn, that would definitely
turn some people off.
I think it's just part of ourway of life here.
Um, so it doesn't bother anyone,but that's definitely a limiting

(23:40):
factor, I would say.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (23:41):
What were you gonna say, Joe?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (23:44):
I was gonna say there, the video sales
have revolutionized everything

korbin_2_02-28-2025 (23:48):
Absolutely.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (23:49):
thing we noticed when we, uh, there's
nothing quite like having aproduction sale at your farmer
ranch.
I mean, that is so nice.
It's so easy on the cattle.
It's easy for me to be able to,uh, man, I say this as a guy who
has it as a, at a partner'sranch, but to be able to just
walk outta your front door andwalk down to where the cattle
are and the facility are thecomforts of home, that means a

(24:11):
lot.
And I think that the crowd andyour customers really, really do
enjoy that, that energy a lot.
Um, but video sales have changedthat to where it makes it so
flexible for all of us to dothat.
The biggest thing I noticed whenwe had our sale at Tim's place.
Was how many pens it requires tohave a sale.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (24:31):
Yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (24:32):
you go to a sale barn, they have a
bazillion pens that you can cuta bazillion different ways and
back pin cattle and get cattlearound.
And my partner Tim, has animpressive, impressive facility,
a permanent facility there thatwas there before we started
having the bull sail.
'cause he actually has more, alot more commercial cows than he
has pure rig cows.
And uh, still it was barelyadequate.

(24:54):
We have to bring in piles andpiles of portable panels and we
actually view the bulls up ongrass and hot wire lots.
Um, which we intentionally haveour cattle in hot wire at a
young age to make sure thatthey're broke to hot wire so
that when we bring'em as a yearlimb bull that's come outta
where he's been fed into thoseviewing lots that, you know,
they don't just require a wholebunch of visual infrastructure.

(25:17):
They could actually see thosewires and know what they are.
um, the video sales have made itsmoother because now we don't
have to think about selling andreturn alleys at the same time.
Those bulls just stay in theirviewing lots, and then they
gather down into basically twopens of cattle.
There's the Bruin bulls andthere's the circle bulls.
There's circle Big Bulls andCircle Little Bulls.

(25:38):
But then those guys who areloading out our customers, at
the end of the day, got three,four pens of cattle.
When we used to have, I think,nine pens of cattle because of
the running through the sail andthen running back and man, what
a, what a mess.
And a sail barn can really makethat a lot cleaner.
Also, the sail barn Corbin, didyou enjoy a portion of the

(25:59):
community that frequents thesale barn?
Like you got those people kindof come because they're used to
coming to the sale barn or wasthere none of that?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (26:07):
Uh, I, I, I would have to say some
of the people are, arecomfortable going there.
Um, in general I think peopleare just hungry for bulls.
They're hungry for bulls and sothey were gonna come no matter
what.
As long as they had heard aboutthe sale, they were gonna come
from all over.
Uh, whether, whether they areare frequent.
Our sale barn, whether they'refrom 30 minutes away, they

(26:29):
showed up.
say the crowd was a lot biggerthis year and I don't know if
that's, I don't know if that'senthusiasm or if that's, if we
just did a better job ofreaching people, but, it was
definitely noticeable.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (26:42):
So what's our big topic today,
guys?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (26:45):
Well, the, in the spirit of bull sail
and bull sail season and thefact that I just had a bull
sail, we're gonna talk aboutbulls.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (26:54):
So we kind of talked about production
sale for a while.
But we've had a, we've had a lotof people.
We've had a lot of people reachout to us about private treaty
sales and consignment sales,which I think on the natural
progression of someone'sprogram, those are the things
that I'm gonna say, generallyare at the beginning.
You start out with privatetreaty sales, then maybe you

(27:17):
grow too much for that and go toa consignment sale.
And corbin's at a spot now wherehe's starting his production
sale.
Vince and my production salesare a little bit more mature.
And so, um, I don't know.
I, I think maybe we ought tojust start with, we've got a
blank slate today.
I literally have two thingswritten private treaty slash
consignment sale and value of abull from Randall Upchurch.

(27:41):
Um, Vince has three thingswritten down because he didn't
put a slash in front of thingsone and two like I did.
So he has private treaty,consignment sale, and then value
of a bull.
But basically we have the samethree things, right, Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (27:53):
not quite fair or correct.
It's very inaccurate.
I took,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (27:57):
not fair.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (27:57):
we had, we had, we had an
agreement.
This was what we were doing.
I took a phone call.
When I came back, it went all toshambles.
It, it's whatever.
Just whatever.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (28:06):
put a, a backspace and a slash mark and
I changed us from two topics tothree.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (28:14):
Well, you know what, Joe, it's, I'm
here.
I, we can talk about whatever

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (28:19):
I'm just here to

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (28:20):
we can.
We, we can just talk aboutwhatever buddy we got all night.
We got the place, ran it allnight.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (28:26):
All right, Corbin, you call David

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (28:29):
called.
I got

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (28:31):
Cray Cray cray.

joe_2_02-28-2025_1705 (28:33):
treaties.
Do you guys still, do you guysstill sell private treaty bulls,
Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (28:37):
Um, I have people call and it kills me
to turn'em away, but I feel likeif I had 50 or 60 bulls, I would
be glad to sell some privatetreaty.
I always try to direct'em to oursale in April, um, because we

(29:00):
don't, I don't have 50 or 60bulls.
Um, I've got 35 to 40 bulls, andI used to private treaty some
and then say, okay, well nowthe, now the lotting of the
catalog has been put together,so no more you have to wait.
Um.
But, you know, I'm getting moreand more people calling about

(29:25):
it, and I'm gonna really have tothink, do I really, my, my
biggest concern is, okay, say Isell 15 private tree bulls.
Well that leaves me 20 bulls.
Well, that's not a lot forpeople to get fired up about to
come to our sale.
You know what I mean?
Um, so that is a huge concern Itry to do.

(29:47):
Plus, if they're, I don't thinkthey're ready yet.
I haven't got to do a finalculling on them.
Um, so, you know, there stillcould be some feed issues.
They haven't been semen checkedyet, things like that.
Um, so that's why I say I justkind of direct everything to the

(30:08):
bull.
The, the bull sale's just somuch cleaner, easier.
They're done.
They haven't been picked over.
This is what I have.
I hope you guys like it, youknow?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (30:18):
Isn't it so awesome to have them all
sold in one day and they're

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (30:22):
100% and then you can collect your
money

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (30:26):
That's

vince_2_02-28-2025_1905 (30:26):
instead of it.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (30:27):
that's one thing about the private
treaty sales, that that kind ofalways, I don't know, it was
something you kind of got tiredof was, was you'd have people
wanting to be the first onethere.
They wanna be the first onethere.
Whenever your bulls become forsale.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (30:40):
Yeah,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (30:40):
then, you know, they can't all be
first is the unfortunatereality.
And then the bulls get pickedand then, and then if they're
not first they think the bullshave been picked over.
And so it's easier just to haveset up for a sale and then you
have a sale.
But the unfortunate reality isthat we have a lot of listeners,
and I mean, I feel like 90% ofour listeners probably have

(31:04):
private tree sales, wouldn't youguys say?
So?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (31:07):
I would think And that's fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (31:10):
No, it's,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (31:11):
90.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (31:11):
I mean, that's just, that's,
that's just great.
It's, it's what we have.
It's what we have available, andit's, it's a way we make a
living.
It's, it's how we get'em sold.
Um, one of the things I wouldnot skimp on if I was having a
pri if I was trying to sell'emprivate treaty, and you're, and
I was struggling.
I think a little bit ofadvertising goes a long way,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (31:30):
Yeah,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (31:30):
like you were advertising for a bull
sale.
If you, if you put it in a paperor a, sometimes social media is
not adequate enough.
To,

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (31:38):
right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (31:39):
promote yourself and word of mouth.
Sometimes you gotta jumpstart itand so, so, so advertising be a
really important piece of that.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (31:48):
So let's do a round table real
quick.
What are Vince, let's start withyou.
Biggest challenges of a privatetreaty sale?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (31:56):
Just getting,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (31:57):
on some of them already.

vince_2_02-28-2025_1905 (31:59):
getting people to know where you're at
and then, you know, we, westruggled with it for years
where we're at in Tennessee.
Um, I struggled with pricing.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1 (32:11):
Haggling.
The haggling.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (32:12):
Uh, the haggling.
I tell you, I used to get soupset when before we started
having bull sales, it was allprivate treaty.
And I finally got, I mean, youwould go, I wanna come look at
your bulls.
You'd spend two hours with thisguy.
And he is like, okay, what doyou want?
What do you want to, what do youwant for'em?

(32:32):
And you know, this was yearsago, okay, 2,500, oh, I'll give
you 1200.
So I just spent two hours withyou and you wanna pay me half.
So what I started doing, peoplewould call, do you have any
bulls?
Yes, I have bulls.
This is what they are, this ishow much they are.
And if you're interested, comelook.

(32:55):
I'll be glad to spend the timeto show you, but I'd get it out
front.
Not rude, but maybe a littlefirm.
This is how much they are.
Come look at'em.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (33:05):
one time I went to a guy's place
that was selling Bulls privatetreaty, and he had a, he had an
Excel spreadsheet with the Bullspedigree, his mother's name, his
registration number.
And then on the far right handcorner, uh, column was the price
of that bull.
Do

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (33:20):
Yep.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (33:21):
that's something that you could
implement if you were having aprivate tree sale to, to sort of
mitigate that problem?
'cause when someone shows up.
And they have no idea.
If you hand them that sheet,that's the first thing they're
going to look at.
And you can nip that in the budand you don't have to bring it
up.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (33:34):
So the last year I did it, you can
get on the Angus website and,and build a pen

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (33:41):
Yep.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (33:42):
and it will print you off the EPDs,
the two generation pedigree orthree generation pedigree and it
looks like a little sale catalog

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (33:50):
Yes.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (33:51):
I actually put lot, you can put
lot numbers on the paper throughthat and you can actually put a
price there too.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (33:58):
Yep.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (33:59):
And I put lot numbers in their ear and
said, here, here's your paper,there's, here's the bulls,
because I don't want to bepressuring you.
I'm gonna, I'll be up here atthe shop working.
Take your time.
When you get done, if you havequestions, gimme a shout because
on one hand I did feel like Imight've gave them the

(34:22):
impression I didn't care, whichis not what it was.
I tried to let'em know, but Ialso didn't want to stand there
and hover over them.
So, you know, if some peoplewanted me to stay there and I
asked them, would you like me tostay?
I'll be glad to stay here, but Idon't wanna

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (34:38):
be able to

vince_2_02-28-2025_190 (34:39):
pressure you.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (34:39):
good, pretty

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (34:40):
Yeah,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1 (34:40):
instance.
You, you'll know if they wantyou there or not.
Um, read body language.
If they get tired of you

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (34:47):
yeah.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (34:47):
talking about every single bull that's
in there, maybe reel it in alittle bit.
Um, different people.
And, and that's one of the toughthings about private treaty sale
too, is, is.
It's one-on-one, and so you,it's good and that that person
gets you for that time.
So

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (35:04):
right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (35:04):
to your advantage.
But also some of the challengescan be you're just at, you don't
know what to say to that person.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (35:12):
Well, one thing that came in real
handy doing it that way wasthere was a guy that was just
bounding and determined to comeon Thanksgiving and we had to go
to Amy's family Thanksgiving,two hours, way up near
Nashville.
And I was like, look, the gate'sopen, here's where the bulls
are.
I left you a paper on my desk,you know, if you, if you have to

(35:35):
come today here.
And he did.
And he was good with it.
He spent probably two, threehours here that he called me and
said, Hey, I'd like, uh, bullnumber two and six.
I said, okay, I'll put your nameon him.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (35:48):
like bull number two and six.
I already put seven on thetrailer.
It didn't tell you.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (35:53):
No, he didn't do that.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (35:54):
it a big a McDouble,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (35:55):
He could, he couldn't have done
that.
But yeah, I mean, it, there'sthings, there are things out
there that are helpful.
What about you, Joe?
What do you think?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (36:07):
I love private treaty sales.
I absolutely love them because Ifeel like it's my opportunity to
really match the right cattlewith the right people

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (36:16):
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (36:16):
a lot of time and make sure, you know.
I tried to say this in the lastepisode, and it's funny you guys
talked about the talking overthere was actually one piece
piece where the platform liketook one of my sentences and
slapped it on top of the other.
But I don't ever want to get inthis place where people think I
have everything figured out.
Like is 20 years too, ofspending the time building a

(36:40):
reputation, building a customerbase.
I know that a lot of this stuffthat you can't just poof, buy a
set of cows, have a set ofcalves, and then all of a sudden
start selling private treatybulls like we do.
So I want to just be mindful ofwhat it was like in 2005 when we
were trying to sell these thingsand you don't even know who to
call or who to send stuff to.

(37:01):
You

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (37:01):
Y you didn't love him then.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:03):
point, that?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (37:05):
love private treaty sales then?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:07):
Didn't love him

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (37:08):
No, that's what I was talking about.
That's what I was talking about.
It was,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:13):
the tools either.
Vince, remember

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (37:15):
yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:15):
you can do a flyer,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (37:17):
Yep.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:17):
still do the same mailing of a flyer
through the Angus Associationthat a lot of people do with
catalogs.
You can build your customer basewith strategies through social
media or whatever.
The best part of private treatysales for me is to get people on
the farm, get'em to fully makesure that that is the purchase
that they want.
You have complete control inthat moment.
The biggest struggle for me isprice discovery,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (37:40):
Yes.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:40):
you guys saw what my sale averaged
and I don't need to belaborthat.
I'm, I'm very thankful for that.
Um, I wouldn't ask, I would havea hard time asking 60% of that
value for a bull privately in apen,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (37:57):
Yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (37:58):
and I still sell a lot of bulls
privately.
The cool part is, is I've foundways to now use private treaty
sales to fuel.
My big bull sale sales.
So first pick in the privatetreaty pin is based on
participation in our annualsale.
And usually the private treatypin is something that got banged
up.

(38:18):
It's something that was youngeror it's something that had a
little different, I don't liketo put micro, micro pet, um, uh,
sire groups in in our catalog.
So if they're a sire group ofone and it doesn't really fit or
a cow that was, know, from someother deal, I mean, I don't even
know how to characterize it, butthey don't fit with the herd.
I like to have big, cleanbunches of cattle that are a

(38:40):
good representation.
It doesn't mean that they're notgood bulls.
It doesn't mean that they won'tdo a good job for somebody.
There's just a reason theydidn't get included in the sale.
Well, if you participated allday in the sale and you didn't
get your order filled, yes,you're first on that list and
for the past four or five years,I've not had to try to pedal
those private treaty bulls.
thing I would tell you guysthough, a lesson that I learned

(39:02):
when I caught, um, myself in apickle with a lot of private
treaty bulls to sell before wehad a production sale.
I mean, a lot of these suckers Ilearned real quick the value in
pricing'em all the same.
Um, I don't get, I didn't get inthe haggles and I know that some
people are more comfortablesaying this pin of bulls is
10,000 or 8,000 or seven or whatthe number was.

(39:25):
still, to this day, I pricethem.
One bull is x, bulls are x minus500 bucks.
Three or more is X minus athousand.
And it works for me on thewhole, because don't want Joe,
Joe Bell down the street and,and bob up on the hill to get to

(39:46):
talking and say, oh yeah, well,Joe gave me this bull for seven.
Well, I had to pay nine formine.
And what's different about mine?
And, and it started to create.
Too many kind of contentious badsituations.
Well, everyone knows I plasteredout.
This is the price of the privatetreaty bulls.
This is what it's at and we'redone.
You guess what?
You will get the best one in thepen because it's your pick.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (40:07):
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (40:08):
one in the pen is priced at this, and I
really like doing it that way.
Um, but my, I might suggest ifyou're a private treaty person,
I know that you're worried aboutseats on the dance card, but if
you let some of theseestablished sales go before you,
does establish a retail value ofbulls in your region.
So then you can back off thathigh retail price and you can

(40:30):
say, Hey, these bulls beenselling for a month in
California for 12 grand.
I've got this bull in the penright here that I'd sell for
5,500.
And actually pick of the pen is6,000 straight through.
I think that that provides someopportunity.
Now you get worried and you say,I want to go before all these
big sales sell because everybodywill be full.
Well, what's your basis forprice discovery?

(40:51):
knows.
And

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (40:52):
All right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (40:52):
I don't know.
What do you think about that,Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (40:55):
I think that's a good way to look
at it.
And I mean, how do you, I alwaysstruggled with pricing, so I
kind of came up, and I'm notsaying this is right, okay.
I kind of came up with a smallquick math to help customers
justify and understand where Iwas at.

(41:16):
So yes, granted, I, if we have asale, just like you said, you
maybe average 12,000 and, andyou're only gonna sell'em for
eight or whatever off the farm.
But what I try to say, okay, twocalves are worth, let's just do
easy math.
Two, a calves worth two grand.
Two calves are worth four grand.
Okay?

(41:37):
One cow is worth four grandbecause it's two calves, two
cows is worth eight grand.
So the put eight grand into abull.
I mean, it was four calves topay for it.
It was just something simple.
And I'm not saying that's rightor wrong, it's just something I
came up with.
So don't bombard me with, oh,that was the dumbest thing you

(41:59):
ever heard.
But it got, it got my customersthinking, you know what?
I can do that.
I, I see, I see where your mathis.
I can do that.
And it, and it may be over hereeast of the Mississippi, the
calves are probably more like1500, which is a$6,000 bull.
Okay.

(42:19):
Um, but it gives them somethingto think about.
Now, whether that, like I saidthat that may not be for
everybody in years past, if Ihad any bulls, um, that, that
didn't go through the sale orwhatever, like you were saying,
maybe they were younger, maybewhatever, they were hurt, banged
up.

(42:41):
Okay.
The sale, five grand, this iswhat these are for sale for.
I mean, I, I figured that waspretty, um, fair.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (42:54):
The

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (42:55):
what do you think?
You,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (42:56):
would, that's exactly what I said.
And I always say, if you want togut the integrity of your
production sale, start offeringall

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (43:03):
I,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (43:03):
private treaty bulls because there's no
stress on the customer.
They'd rather buy a cheaperproduct.
And so there's always thatbalance there.
But what I'll tell'em is,listen, I'm gonna go off the
sale average, but a sale averageis a sale average.
That means that there's animalsbelow and there's

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (43:18):
yep.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (43:18):
above.
So if you want the free marketat play, you need to be at our
production sale, because therewill be bulls that sell below
What I'll offer private treatybulls at, and the first cut,
gentlemen, always for us atruin, the first cut goes in the
production sale 110%.
And I know that people will liketo say, they like to protect,
protect the, uh, excuse me,protect their private treaties,

(43:40):
and they'll be like, oh, I gotsome good bulls in there.
You know what, you gotta drawthe line somewhere.
It's okay to let your customersknow.
The best cattle will be in theproduction sale, and we
encourage you to compete there.
And if you compete there.
We'd love to offer our privatetreaty bulls to you.
And, and we've had a lot ofpeople,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (43:57):
It's okay.
It's okay.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (43:58):
some people that, uh, you know,
they've, used that as anopportunity to figure out that
they could get to big numbers ofbulls.
Like, especially the guys thatbuy three and four.
They'll come to the sale bythree four and then go buy five
or six in the private treatypen.
Well, but they also know yougotta come to the sale and
compete or someone else is gonnabe ahead of you in line.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (44:20):
Right, right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (44:22):
So what about you, Corbin?
Before you, uh, last two yearsyou've been selling at, uh, the
sale barn.
This your second sale.
What were you doing before that?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (44:32):
I was selling private treaty then
and, and there's some thingsthat I would change if I was
starting a private treaty salethis year.
Here's two things that I woulddo that I believe would change
your luck.
The first thing was that Iwould've a sale book.
It doesn't have to be anythingfancy.
If you want to just put.

(44:52):
The lot and the bull's pedigreeright there, then that'll work.
But if you wanna put pictures oryou wanna do as much or as
little as you want to, I thinkhaving that sail book that way,
the bull, the, the customer canlook at the bull they can look
at their paper just like theywould if they were coming to
your sale.
I think that would solve a lotof problems.
Whereas they're like, Hey,what's this pedigree?

(45:13):
And then you're having to lookon your phone'cause you don't
really remember what hispedigree is.
You do know, but then wheneversomebody asks you spur of the
moment, you can't remember, youend up having to look on your
phone and then you don't haveservice and it

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (45:25):
Well, and then they wanna know

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (45:26):
like,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (45:27):
EPDs,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (45:27):
yeah.
And then they wanna know.
Yeah.
So having

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (45:30):
see a heifer bull.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (45:31):
of you Yes.
Having that sale book in frontof you, it would make everything
easier.
The other thing I would do is,is just like Joe said, it's a,
it's a set price.
I'm not haggling.
I'm not haggling.
You're, you're not getting, I'mnot going down 500.
If you buy two, I'll go down.
500.
Things like that have to bediscussed beforehand because
when someone gets there and theyoffer and they low ball you and,

(45:52):
and it's at the end of theseason and you're just, you've
had hard luck selling bulls andyou think you've had'em too long
and you end up letting that bullgo for way for, I mean, there's
a lot of these private treatysales where guys are selling
bulls for less than a steer orless than it's worth if they cut
its head off.
Don't do that.
do that.
Have your set price.
Advertise somewhere.

(46:12):
Advertise in a local newspaper.
We have a radio station herewhere I, I believe it'd be a
great place to advertise.
Call your local radio stations.
Get your name out there, becauseeven though it's a private
treaty, sales doesn't mean youhave to keep to yourself and not
get your product out to yourcustomer.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (46:28):
That's great.
Great advice.

joe_2_02-28-2025_1 (46:31):
Outstanding.
I have a little tidbit, maybe alittle anecdote that I just,
that just dawned on me a lot ofmy premium.
I, I, I hate to say that becauseI, I believe all of my customers
are super, super valuable.
The ones that spend the mostmoney weren't always that way.
These guys buy$15,000 bulls usedto buy more budget conscious

(46:54):
bulls so you can grow them intoa bigger spending.
Someone who values the productsyou put.
But I never grew anyone as acustomer who was trying to
starve me out.
Ever.
The ones who were trying tostarve me out were there one
year, then not the next, thepeople who were always just

(47:15):
looking for something fair andtrying to improve their program
and almost act like they werekind of partnering with us, I
found ways to make it work.
And they saw the value in ourcattle.
They did what they said, andthen over time.
The cattle did what we said.
They made'em more money.
They, they spent more money onit.
Just like if, if somebody wantedto use a new mineral supplement
and all of a sudden their calvesweighed more, well guess what?

(47:37):
They're probably gonna use thatmineral supplement again.
Or if their cows bred up better.
And so I think just trying tofigure out, does this person
look like they're gonna be apart of our program in the
future?
Or is he just trying to starveme out or is she trying to
starve me out?
I mean, those are things that a,a person would really want to
consider.
I wanna shift gears though,guys.
Um, oh, actually I had a notehere when Corbin was talking.

(47:59):
you guys ever make it up tore-hit South Dakota Corbin?
Do you make it up there?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (48:04):
No, what's up there?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (48:07):
So it's kind of that central Eastern
South Dakota Club calf central.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (48:12):
Mm-hmm.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (48:12):
this phenomenon happens in the fall.
They've got ice, chest, beer,and four wheelers, like as far
as you can see.
And sometimes they'll have alittle trailer house that's got
a refrigerator in it or maybesome snacks or whatever.
There's nobody even there.
There's nobody even there.
And they'll just have a littlesheet of paper and a bid off and
people drive up and down thatcorridor of South Dakota, even

(48:34):
parts of Nebraska and Iowa orthis, the way it used to be on
these little pasture bid offthings.
But they have information on thecattle, they have the cattle
available for viewing, and theymake it comfortable for the
people.
I think there's some unique waysto do private treaty, and then
there's ways that you can buildoff of if you wanted to get into
some competition with a silentauction or a timed auction.

(48:57):
I mean, that's all stuff for youto decide as your program grows.
But then most natural step.
Vince, you had something

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (49:04):
No, before we change subjects, go
finish what you were saying.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (49:08):
I was gonna change into consignment

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (49:09):
Oh, okay.

joe_2_02-28-2025_1705 (49:10):
something that fit with that, say it.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (49:12):
Well, so two things.
One, one thing, if you're notcertain on your pricing and you
feel that you need to havedifferent pricing, that's okay.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (49:22):
Yep.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (49:22):
if you have enough pens, say, okay,
this pen is$3,500.
This pen is$4,500, this pen is$6,000.
You could do that.
And then this way, if the peopledon't want to, if they can't
spend that much money or don'twant to spend that, okay, here
you go.
Here's some bulls for you.

(49:44):
The other thing is, one year wetried doing what you were just
saying, so we had a catalog and.
We had a, all these runs thatwere full of cattle and this run
was a$2,500.
Anything in this pen, or youcould bid it up if you liked

(50:05):
bull number two.
You could write on the sheet ofpaper, Hey, my name's Joe Fisher
and I like bull number two andI'll give$3,000.
The base price was$2,500 andthen the next pen was maybe 27
50.
The next pen was 3000 and so on,and then it, it was odd because

(50:28):
the people weren't getting that.
So then we kind of did, okay, ifyou are interested in bull
number two, step forward, whowill gimme$2,500?
This guy raised his hand.
It wasn't really an auctioneer,but it was supposed to be a
similar to a silent auctiondeal, but it just didn't, it

(50:48):
didn't really.
Work.
Right.
Um, and we ended up bidding themoff, but it wasn't real
fast-paced auctioneer.
It was like, okay, he will giveyou, you know, 2,600, he will
gimme this and that.
Um, but it was kind of similarto what you were just talking
about.
And, and we ended up, I think ifwe would've done it more than

(51:09):
one year, maybe it would've beena little better.
But we ended up kind ofscrapping that deal just'cause
it didn't, it, it didn't feelright and it didn't work right
here the way we did it.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (51:20):
So most silent auctions are at community
dinners or

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (51:24):
Yep.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (51:24):
a certain pie you want or a
certain cake you want orwhatever.
But if you're showing up needingbulls and you happen to bid on
the first one and the secondone, you gotta roll into a
different choice.
So all these end up reallyevolving into some sort of
auction

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (51:40):
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (51:40):
that.
And my partner Tim, started thesame thing.
He's actually got a, a salethat's almost as big as our
production sale after the salefor younger calves and stuff.
he has a whole different groupof clientele and they come and
it's basically slow talkingauctioneer as what they

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (51:56):
Yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (51:58):
and, and they have sandwiches and
stuff like that.
But there's different, there'sdifferent ways.
Um.
I think the most natural secondprogression though for a lot of
people is consignment sales.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (52:08):
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (52:10):
nothing wrong with it at all.
Do you participate in any ofthose anymore or have you, or
what do you think their events?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (52:16):
I don't, um, I guess the, I can't
even think of one that's aroundhere off the top of my head.
Um, the, probably the bull testwould be the, uh, another good
avenue.
Um.
If there are some consignmentsales, yeah, they're great.

(52:37):
That's a great deal.
Um, I don't know that there'sany around here that are
actually consignment bull sales.
I know that there are someconsignment sales that finally,
in the beginning they wouldn'teven take bulls, but finally
they started taking some bulls.
But if you wanted to put a bullin it, you had to put at least

(53:01):
one female, if not two.
Um, so I think that was justbecause it was so hard to sell
bulls around this area.
Um,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (53:10):
about you, Corbin?
Do you do the consignment salething much?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (53:13):
I have in the past, and the main
thing about a consignment saleis it's a lot like a private
treaty or having your ownauction.
You still have to advertise andpeople still have to know you're
there.
It's,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (53:26):
yep.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (53:27):
you hope

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (53:28):
I.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (53:28):
show up, and if they do, it's a
bonus.
But if you're selling bulls.
a sale, a consignment salethat's not known for bulls.
You might have to bring your,your buyers with you.
So it's one of those thingswhere you need to start off
private treaty and you need toat least build a customer base
through your, through youradvertising and at, before you
even go to a consignment sale.

(53:49):
Um, it sounds great to say,yeah, I've raised, you know,
I've never raised a bull beforeand I'm just gonna take'em to
consignment sale.
That way I can make meetcustomers there.
But from my experience, that wasreally tough.
It was really tough to just showup somewhere and there be a
customer waiting for you.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (54:06):
I had the same experience and we
chased them around for severalyears.
Two bulls at a time, up and downthis state.
I would say the benefits were,uh, pooled marketing costs
because, um, you had a wholebunch of other people and you
could pull the cost of anauctioneer, you could pull the
cost of sale management, all ofthose things that maybe you
didn't have enough size andscope to be able to spend that

(54:28):
much, but you did with a bunchof other consignors.
but, uh, and there was enoughdraw for these bigger producers
because a lot of these biggerguys in California might wanna
buy eight to 10 bulls or six oreight bulls, and you've got
seven bulls that you own.
Um, so if you could go with 15other.
Breeders who then could make 120bull sale that was worth it for

(54:51):
some of these folks to go to.
And those sales were long, um,established.
They had people that frequentthem.
They still exist in Californiaand they do quite well.
The biggest challenge I'vealways found with that is, um,
you're in community with somepeople that maybe you don't have
shared values with.
You don't have shared breedingprograms with, um, you don't

(55:13):
have shared goals

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (55:14):
You don't have shared, you're not
developing those cattle the sameeither and sometimes.

joe_2_02-28-2025_17051 (55:18):
Exactly.
And so at consignment sales, thedifference in management is seen
in the dollar and in the pens.
You'd have yearling bulls thatare up with their backbone
touching the six rail fence andyearling bulls that are like two
rails high.
And the buyer at that time isnot considering that this

(55:38):
gentleman's been pale feedingthat thing since it was three
days old.
And this one runs'em like I do,and he's smaller.
They don't discern that.
They just see this one's big andthis one's terrible.
And so that basis forcomparison, the beauty of having
your own production sale isthey're all under your
management.
They're all under your roof.
That's all done consistently.
And they have similar pedigreeand type, the consignment sale.

(56:01):
Circuit for us though, inCalifornia did it did at least
give us some people to startcalling when we wanted to start
doing stuff privately.
'cause in those days, again,you'd have bulls and, and boy,
you wouldn't even know who tocall or where to go.
You go to the sale barn, they'regonna say, yeah, here's a list
of people that you should callthat might need bulls.
I mean, it's difficult, it's adifficult nut to crack.

(56:23):
But, um,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (56:25):
What about.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (56:25):
do?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (56:26):
Go ahead.

korbin_2_02-28-2025 (56:27):
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(56:48):
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(57:12):
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vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (57:28):
It sounds like

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (57:30):
You know what I miss?
I miss it.
I miss the disclaimer that youread at the

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (57:35):
that was so awesome.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (57:37):
Those are

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (57:37):
Yes.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (57:38):
words.
Like may cause nausea,indigestion, road rage.
Um, that would be hilarious, butOh, those

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (57:46):
What about, what about if, let's just
say for a minute, I didn't livein Loretta, Tennessee, and I
lived 20 minutes from Corbin'sHouse and Corbin, and I see
things a lot alike and we gottogether one morning, went and

(58:06):
got breakfast.
I said, you know what, maybe weshould get together and have a
bull sale.
I don't think that's a bad idea.
If you have somebody that you'regood friends with or you don't
necessarily have good friend tobe good friends, but you respect
'em enough as a breeder and theyrespect you enough as a breeder
to maybe want to go togetherand, and start your own bull

(58:29):
cell

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (58:30):
I

vince_2_02-28-2025_1905 (58:30):
because you don't have enough.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (58:32):
I'm

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (58:32):
know what I mean?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (58:33):
with that.
There's one contingency.
At some point, those bulls needto be developed together.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (58:40):
I don't disagree.
Oh,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (58:42):
have those bulls being developed at
each person's house and thenbringing them together because.
one person's gonna be managingtheir bulls differently, and
that's gonna end up making theother one the value of the other
ones different.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (58:55):
and you could still do it at your
house and my house.
If we're that close and maybejust visit together and say,
yeah, you know what, here, thisis what we're feeding.
You know, I came to see yourbulls.
I think they're just a tickbehind mine or, Hey, I came to
see yours, you're way ahead ofme.
I need to step it up, orwhatever it might be.

(59:19):
But that's where everybody hasto be on the same page.
You can't take a guy that's notwilling, that wants to starve'em
to death and then turn aroundand sell him because he thinks
he can get two grand out or fourgrand for what I see on Facebook
for a starved animal, and thentry to put'em together because

(59:40):
it's not gonna match.
It's not.
It's,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (59:43):
that's another thing about con.
That's another thing aboutconsignment sales is that you're
gonna have such a hodgepodge ofgenetics.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (59:51):
yeah.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (59:51):
You know, you're gonna have

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (59:52):
S

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (59:52):
cattle.
Uh, it's a bunch of differentminds that are brought together,
and, and so your vision doesn'tmatch.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (01:00:00):
right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:00:02):
So I wanted to expand on that because
I think that's a really, reallycool topic, Vince, because it's
what built Bruin Ranch.
Um, you know, these partnershipsthat have shared mutual
interests and can shareresources can be so, so
beautiful.
If any of you are thinking aboutdoing that, the best thing you
could do is find someone who'sbeen doing it for more than 15

(01:00:23):
years and call them and say,what did you do that made you
guys last this long?
And what did you, what are somechallenges you've had and how
did you get through those?
Um, and I think if I could sumit up shortly, which you guys
know, I'm bad at.
I believe that my biggestcheerleader that exists is Tim

(01:00:44):
and Jill Kern, and I hope thatthey know that the biggest
cheerleader for them is Joe andAbby Fisher.
as long as that's the worldviewthat we live in, that's how
we've had a successful sale foralmost 20 years now, is like
anytime a decision comes up, thefirst thing that pops into their
mind is, I wanna make sure Joeand Abby are okay.

(01:01:06):
it the same vice versa.
If something comes up.
I'm always worried about theKern family.
I put them first.
Um, you've gotta be on the samepage with discounts.
You gotta be on the same pagewith guarantees, and you've
gotta be honest with yourpartner.
You can't be the one who's like,well, you know, I know that, I
know that old, uh, Vince, hewon't guarantee those bulls, but
I will wink, wink.

(01:01:27):
And then next time you've kindof stolen a buyer underhandedly
from your partner, thepartnership has to be good.
Another thing that Tim and Idid, I.
Is, uh, we never signed it.
We never signed it, but we wrotedown on a sheet of paper, just a
gentleman's agreement of ourrelationship.
And it's 20 years old and it'sjust like, Hey, if, and you

(01:01:47):
couldn't even sue on it'causeit's not notarized or anything,
but it just gives us a thing togo back to.
But why we decided to do it as ateam.
We call ourselves Thumbs up,brother, up

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:01:59):
back.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:01:59):
three bars of service.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:02:00):
you know what probably happened?
I probably just talked over you,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:02:04):
no, no,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (01:02:05):
fakely.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:02:06):
What happened is I've been quiet this
whole episode and this is thefirst time I've talked.
That's why, that's whathappened, is the, this is a

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:02:14):
It's just, it's just glad to hear
from you.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:02:16):
the, on the beef solutions thing, it
even says things like, um, if wesplit up our partnership,
neither one of us will use thename for the next four years or
something like that.
Like we, we wrote out thosethings so that if there's ever a
conflict or we just go back toit, um, we write it down.
We have shared values, sharedinterests, share gu shared
guarantees.
But that's, it's almost like amarriage.

(01:02:37):
I mean, you better be rootingfor that person.
And the cool thing is, I likebeing, I like establishing
relationships.
I think you guys know that.
I like being on the phone.
I like visiting customers.
Um, I like thinking aboutmarketing.
My partner, Tim, thinks about itall differently, which has
created a real wonderfulrelationship between the two of

(01:03:01):
us because he is a wizard atfacility design.
I mean, the stuff he'll puttogether and how he fabricates
is so handy.
He has talents.
I don't have that.
I just don't even worry about,his wife is one of these
hospitality people, you know,like I'll throw a cow hide or a
gunny sack somewhere and itlooks like a thrown cow hide or
a gunny sack and she does it andit looks like it was done and

(01:03:21):
like,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:03:23):
Built in.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:23):
or something.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:03:25):
Yeah.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:26):
it just works, right.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (01:03:27):
Right.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:28):
I think finding people that have a
little different talents and cankind of be flexible and let
people take leads in differentspots, I think has a lot of
value.
Tim is extremely analytical andI'm analytical in a different
way.
And so we compliment each other.
Well, Vince, you were gonna saysomething.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:03:46):
No, I wasn't.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:48):
Oh.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:03:48):
You can't make me say anything.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:03:50):
No, it wasn't.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:03:52):
No, I wasn't.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:53):
are we at?
We in the thank you portion,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:03:55):
No, we're still talking.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:03:57):
more

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:03:57):
uh, I thought we were gonna talk
about Randall.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:00):
Vince did.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:04:02):
No.
What?
What did I say?
Oh, I slid it.
I slid it in there.
Cor.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:04:06):
Oh.
Slid it in them.
Dms

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:04:09):
No.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:04:10):
slid red.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:11):
No.
Randall mentioned value of abull and Vince already kind of
talked about that about

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:04:15):
I don't even know if that was a
good assessment, but that's justhow I kind of see it.
What did you guys think of it?
Way off base.
Pretty close.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:04:27):
Well, what if David asked, David
Little asked a question, and Ithink we might as well get into
it, is you pro promote maternalbulls that aren't the big
hulking bulls to compete withcontinental or terminal Angus
type bulls?
Is that a scary question?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:43):
along with value of a bull.
Good job, Corbin.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:04:45):
we've now talked about it three times
we've,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:49):
Oh my

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:04:50):
Here, here's something that goes along
with that,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:53):
Yeah.
Here's something

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (01:04:54):
Here's for how

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:55):
salad.
What?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:04:55):
For a transition?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:04:57):
what were you eating before?
Mashed potatoes and fish.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:05:00):
Yeah.
It

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:05:01):
that those go together, like what you
just said.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:05:06):
Oh, no, I gotta say value of a bull.
Vince, I, it's funny you saidthat with Randall, because you
went to dollars and cents and Iwas thinking like, the value of
a good bull, what's he worth toa breeding program?
And so I had a completelydifferent view,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:05:20):
I think.
I think that's like we weretalking, when were we talking
about that this morning

joe_2_02-28-2025_17051 (01:05:27):
probably we talk about it a lot.
I feel like you and I do.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:05:29):
So.
What you, you need to go withthat?
Go with it.
Roll on what we were talkingabout this morning.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:05:37):
get back to the mashed potatoes and

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:05:39):
Oh my God.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:05:41):
so, and we'll get back to David Little's
question in a second, but onthat train of thought, I mean,
it's almost impossible toquantify.
The right bull used in aprogram.
And it's also impossible toquantify the wrong bull used in
a program.
I mean, the most expensive bullsI've ever used at Bruin have
sometimes not been the mostexpensive in dollars that we

(01:06:03):
spent.
I mean, sometimes it was acheaper bull that was a problem,
or sometimes it was$200 worth ofsemen on a flush that pla
plagued us, or know, so just saythe value of a good bull can
never be underscored enough.
I mean that 52, 54 bull and, andI'll throw out torque too.
And even some of these youngerbulls like fellow, the impact

(01:06:26):
they've had on our program,don't know.
I can, I can see how people canspend 30, 40,000 on bulls.
I don't know how they write thatcheck'cause it's gotta be
painful.
But I can, I can see thatpositive of an impact for the
right bulls if they do thosethings for you.
So, um,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:06:43):
So, Corbin, this morning Joe and I
were talking about, um, youknow, we've, we've talked a lot
on here about using your ownbulls.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (01:06:54):
Mm-hmm.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:06:54):
And while that is liberating and
that is awesome because you canpromote your own program, you
can believe in your own program,you can believe in your own
animals, and then to see otherpeople come believe in them with
you, right when they come buy'em.
Um.

(01:07:16):
The, the problem can be what I'malways asking myself, is this
the right son of this cow, or isthat one that just hit the
ground gonna come up and bebetter?
Or is am I overlooking this bullbecause I'm so focused on this
cow, his mother does a good jobas well.

(01:07:37):
Is that the one that I keep anduse, uh, and, and try to promote
because I think he's gonnachange my program.
And, you know, it's while wetell people to believe in their
own product, I don't rememberhow Joe said it this morning,
but it's, it's, it's almost likeyou need to do that, but you

(01:08:00):
also have to do it with some,um, I guess maybe relativity or
a view that, you know.
Maybe this is not the one.
Maybe I need to wait.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:08:16):
You have to have the humility

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:08:18):
You do

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:08:19):
you have to have the humility to
know, this isn't the sun that Ineed to move on with.

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (01:08:23):
right.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:08:23):
That does not, I'm not sliding this
bull.
It doesn't mean he is not,doesn't even mean he is not the
best bull I've ever raced.
He's not the right bull for meat this time.
Maybe.
Maybe I've got more calvescoming out of that cow that I
think will suit my cow herdbetter as to what it needs.
Generally.
going to, follow a type and kindourselves.
And so do I need more of thetype and kind that I prefer, or

(01:08:46):
do I need to bring in somethingthat's a little bit of a
contrast to what I've alreadygot here?
Do I need more of the same or doI need to fix a little bit of
something this by bringing inthis out across sire, um, I
think you have to take all ofthat into account because it's
all gonna play a important role.
Um, and then another thing istoo, if I AI all my cows to

(01:09:08):
renowned and then I keep arenowned son, am I gonna myself
later

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:09:13):
Yep.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:09:14):
to breed those renowned daughters
to the bull that I've kept?
So, I mean,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:09:17):
We had,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:09:18):
all of those decisions you're
making.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:09:20):
we had that same conversation this
morning about overlapping,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:09:25):
I had a

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:09:26):
I.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:09:26):
really good torque son this year that I
absolutely loved.
I really, really, really lovethat bull and I really, really
like his mother a lot, a lot, alot.
And ultimately I decided to lethim go and just sell him.
And, and he went to a great,great, great customer of ours
and I can go get that bullet anytime.
Ultimately, I'm gonna get theEPD chaser, uh, hate mail had

(01:09:50):
the.
Exact same EPD profile astorque, maybe a little higher in
some spots, maybe a little lowerin some spots.
And when I say higher and lower,that's the favorable direction
we are looking at for traitstype wise.
He was right in there withtorque.
I guess he didn't, I didn't knowfor a fact that his mother was

(01:10:12):
better than what Torque hasproved to done with his
daughters already.
that make sense?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:10:18):
And if you're not improving on the
torque daughters you have, orif, it's a lateral movement, th.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:10:25):
I think it would've just been a lateral
movement, and I already decidedI wasn't gonna turn the bull
loose.
I was gonna collect him and Iwas gonna use semen on him.
And it was gonna like, why?
I know what torque is and I havesemen on him and there's brand
name recognition in him.
There's marketing value in thattoo, and the cattle work.
Why do I need to just use thissun to say that I'm using a sun?

(01:10:46):
He, he sure could be better thantorque.
But torque's got what thousandsof progeny used all over the
world that have shown what he'sdone.
Maybe I don't have enough moneyto prove out that this bull is
as good or isn't as good.
Maybe I just need to just stickwith that tool that's doing a
really, really good job for usin consistency.
And so I, I definitely want toempower people.

(01:11:09):
Definitely believe in your ownprogram, love your program.
Believe that that cow, that isthe mother of that bull is the
reflection of the female lineyou're bringing into your herd
all the time.
But one of my favorite quotes,you guys know I'm a big quote
guy, is What's right is notalways different.
And what's different is notalways right.
so sometimes we just keep tryingto be different for the sake of

(01:11:32):
being different.
When there's something that'sactually got as much goodness in
it that's right in front of yournose and proven.
Corbin, I was, I was thumbsupping you with my thumbs up.
I know you guys won't get adigital thumbs up from
Buzzsprout, but I was giving youone, um, when you said humility,
that's exactly what I would say.
The, the humility is a breederto say, is this really an

(01:11:54):
improvement on his sire?
Or if I'm gonna put semen in acow, should I just use the sire
again?

vince_2_02-28-2025_19052 (01:12:00):
Right.
Are you just getting so excitedbecause you want to take one of
your bulls to get collected anduse him?
And try to promote him again.
Is he the right one?
Maybe he is the best bull you'veever raised, but how do you know
that you won't raise one betternext year or the next year?

(01:12:24):
You know, it, it's just astruggle for me, so I don't
know.
Whatever you guys think.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:12:31):
it?
It's fun if you can figure out,the struggle I'm having with
bulls guys is, gosh, they'reworth a lot to not sell'em

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:12:40):
Well, that's it.
That's right.
I,

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:12:43):
don't want to have to go buy the high
seller at Shady Brook.
I mean, that's gonna be a toughcheck to write

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:12:48):
oh man.
That'd be about 8,008.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:12:53):
like the bull sitting, the bull's
sitting at your place, Vince,tough to not take that payday on
that bull and pay off somebills, honestly.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:13:02):
is, but.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:13:03):
I know that I can't go buy what he is
somewhere else for 40,000,50,000.
And so it's like.
Where's that balancing act?
When do you hold'em and when doyou fold'em?
Vince?

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:13:15):
I think just what you said though,
I think you gotta weigh out.
If he's only gonna bring 10,000in my sale, but I would have to
go spend 30 to a bull that'scomparable to him, would I not
be better to go ahead and justkeep him and for forfeit to
10,000 instead of going andbuying a$30,000 bull?

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:13:38):
Mm-hmm.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:13:39):
Um, that's, that is tough.
But then the flip side of thatis I'm thinking he's the
greatest thing since slicedcheese.
And I would probably be betteroff to sell him, maybe find
something different or buy somesemen or whatever it might be.

(01:13:59):
Um, instead of trying to keepthat bull and promoting myself.
It, it's, it's such a hardbalance.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:14:06):
you know what?
One of the problems that I worryabout all the time is I've got
some donor cows that I'm crazyabout that I know have raised
sons that I need to use, that Ineed to use back in my herd.
Now,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:14:17):
Yep,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1 (01:14:17):
sometimes I wonder how do I select the
correct bull because I'm readingthat donor cow seven different
ways,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:14:25):
yep,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:14:25):
and so this year I've got renowned.
Next year I've got barricades.
The next year I've got torques.
The next year I've got fellows,whatever.
How do you know which year whichbull?
Because sometimes if you waittill that fourth year when
you've got the newest, the onethat you think is gonna be the
best, sometimes that one yousold four years ago would ended
up being the best one, and youlet'em go.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:14:47):
yep.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (01:14:48):
That's just

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:14:49):
how many years, how many years does
it take before you even realizewhat that bull will do for you?

korbin_2_02-28-2025 (01:14:56):
Absolutely.
There is some beauty.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:14:59):
you just touched on a topic that I
wanna circle and to write downright now is multi trait
selection.
Vince and I were talking aboutthat this morning a lot about
how sometimes we're trying toimprove on so many different
traits and we're trying to do somany different things.
I.
Um, if we could just try to do afew things really, really well,
it's a lot easier to do and thatI'll tie it back in at a

(01:15:24):
different time, but that justtriggered in my mind multi trait
versus versus single traitselection and where's the
balance there.
But I don't know, you guys feellike we've done a decent enough
job with this topic.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:15:37):
I think,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:15:37):
I think

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:15:38):
I think producer, I.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:15:39):
on a lot of different things.
Generally, there's still more,more stuff we could discuss
about it.
I would say, wouldn't you?
I mean, everybody's situation'sdifferent.
Sometimes.
Some of y'all are ready forprivate treaty sales.
if you have any questions oranything, you, you don't know
what to do, and you're havingyour, you're selling your first
set of bulls.

(01:15:59):
Don't, don't hesitate to reachout to people.

vince_2_02-28-2025_ (01:16:02):
Absolutely.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190 (01:16:02):
there's people out there that will help
you.
Don't, don't sell yourself shorton your bulls.
Your bulls have value,especially in today's market.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:16:12):
I would agree you guys, uh, I've got a
small list of thank yous here ofpeople that have reached out to
us.
I mean.
I don't know.
I don't wanna belabor it everyepisode, but I just feel so much
love from the community.
It's incredible when we look atour little app on the phone and
see how many people aredownloading and listening.
And I know Vince wants to talkto some people just a little

(01:16:33):
bit.
Um, I'll let you compile yourthoughts.
I'm gonna take Justin Jernigan.
He sent, uh, I think at leastone of us.
Um, I know he sent me a nureally nice text from Portland,
Tennessee.
Um, just so gracious and kind.
Evan Ferguson as well.
Jackson Pgh Jackson.
Again, I, I teased that he wasworking on some sweatshirts, but

(01:16:55):
we got distracted a little bitover the past two weeks between
our obligations and personallife.
And I just hadn't had thebandwidth to deal with it.
But we got swag opportunitiescoming guys, um, on Spotify.
Did you guys know that Spotifyhas like these bars where you
click on'em and you could seethis whole dialogue coming, um,
of people that comment on there?

(01:17:15):
I.
I just started checking thatDane on Spotify on the last
episode.
Gave a nice review.
And Mandy, our dear friendMandy, she dislikes the long
intro, long heavy introductionspeeches as much as I do.
Thanks Mandy for reaching out afew episodes ago.
Sergio MCO eight.

(01:17:35):
Thank you, Sergio.
M eight.
Um, just thank you guys.
I know I'm missing somebody.
Lindsey Wood.
I went to school.
I actually, I don't know,Lindsay, is that what your name
is on Facebook?
I can't remember, but I think itwas Lindsey Wood when we were in
college.
We were friends in college.
Um, to Wyoming.
She put out a nice question.

(01:17:56):
I'm not, we're not ignoring youLindsay.
It's on the list.
The amount of topics you guyshave submitted have been
fabulous.
Us trying to tie'em all togetherand make'em timely with the
production, um, cycles that weall go through.
Um, that's, that's where we'rehaving a little bit of a
challenge.
But thank you for all the topicideas.
Corbin, you want to go?

korbin_2_02-28-2025_19051 (01:18:15):
Yeah, sure.
I'll just think a couple people.
One of them is Kyle Lear.
He's always.
Always commenting.
He's always got our back.
He's always telling us goodluck.
I even think he shares our, ourFacebook posts.
He's always got our back.
He listens to every episode.
Really appreciate him.
And then, um, this one I wasgonna tell you guys about later,
Brian Clark was interested in aheifer and his wife does some

(01:18:40):
embroidery stuff.
And, and, and we had, he hadtalked about being able to help
us with merch too.
It's amazing how many peoplehave reached out that wanna help
us with the merch thing.
I I think people are excitedabout it generally.
Um, we're still, we're stillcompiling our thoughts.
You know, it's, we'd say it's alittle tough, you know, I went
into my sale now Vince is goingright into his.

(01:19:00):
And so we really haven't, andit's winter and we're having to
do things we don't normally doas far as feed.
But when we get into some grassseason for, for me and Vince
and, and, and out of sale seasonfor me and Vince, we'll sit down
together and we'll talk aboutmerch and what we need to do.
But I, I really appreciateBrian, Brian.
himself out there and, andgiving us the opportunity,

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:19:23):
Uh, I'd like to, to, uh, say yeah,
that Justin Jernigan, uh,reached out to me as well and,
and I appreciate all the kindwords he had to say.
And, uh, I got a call todayfrom, uh, uh, Michael Trahan and
Joe, he gave me a thumbs upbecause he knows you're robbing
'em all somehow.
So he gave one to you twoCorbin.

(01:19:44):
He didn't want us to be leftout.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:19:46):
he doesn't want to be lonely.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:19:48):
No, he didn't want us to be lonely.

joe_2_02-28-2025_170517 (01:19:50):
you check the, the group text.
I'll give you a real good thumbsup here in a sec.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:19:54):
But, um,

korbin_2_02-28-2025_1905 (01:19:55):
That's scary.

vince_2_02-28-2025_190524 (01:19:57):
Um, on a serious note, as we're
ending here.
Uh, a lot of, a lot of thelisteners know that, uh, my dad
passed away last week, and Ijust want to say thank you to
all the people that reached outbecause it was, it was
overwhelming and it was verynice to old, old friends, new

(01:20:17):
friends, just, you know, I couldreally feel the love.
And, uh, I greatly appreciateeverybody and, and I greatly
appreciate my close friends aswell.
Like you guys always checking onme and, and whatnot.
So I just want to say thank youvery much to, to all the
listeners and, and my friends.

(01:20:37):
Um, other than that, I guess,uh, take it away, tumor.
Catch y'all next week.

korbin_2_02-28-2025_190517 (01:20:43):
Yep.
We'll see you next time, Aroundthe Chute.