November 25, 2024 • 37 mins
In this episode of Art of Spousing, James and Lisa give listeners a behind-the-scenes look at their creative process as they develop a new framework for marriage growth: The Flywheel of Momentum. They share five key priorities that, when practiced intentionally, create synergy and depth in a marriage. From foundational communication to fostering growth, this episode is packed with practical insights, engaging stories, and actionable tools to help your marriage thrive.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Marriage Reboot
- The Collective
- The Weekly Practise Newsletter
- The Five Gears
- The Communication Code by Jeremie Kubicek
- Stay tuned for updates on the Art of Spousing Marriage Retreat, coming Fall 2025!
Related Episodes:
- Unlocking the Secret Sauce of Lasting Marriages with 3 Key Ingredients
- Six Practises For Avoiding Complacency in Your Marriage
- The Marriage Reboot: Reset, Rebuild & Find Common Ground With Greg and Julie Gorman
Connect with Us:
- Instagram: @artofspousing
- Website: www.artofspousing.com
- Email Newsletter: Sign up HERE to get the latest podcast episodes delivered to your inbox!
Subscribe & Review:
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more couples seeking to build strong, resilient marriages.
Thank you for listening! We hope this conversation encourages you to embrace life’s seasons with grace and intentionality in your marriage. We’ll see you next time on the Art of Spousing podcast!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James (00:00):
So today's episode's gonna be a little different.
We're gonna experiment and trysomething different. A lot of
times, we'll prepare content andthen teach it, but, actually,
Lisa, we've been working on somenew content. And so instead of
just throwing it out there, wethought we'd kinda bring you
along on our journey ofdiscussing it.
Lisa (00:14):
Right. It's kind of like a behind the scenes of content
preparation, and it might getspicy because I may go, I don't
dis I disagree with that, James.
James (00:22):
Right.
Lisa (00:22):
So just so you know, if we do that, we still love each
other. Right?
James (00:25):
That's right. So for several years now, I've been
working with a organizationcalled Giant, and they do a lot
of leadership and personaldevelopment tools. In the last
several months, I've beenlooking at how to take some of
those concepts and actuallyapply them to marriage because I
think they're they overlapfairly well. So one of the tools
that Giant uses is a tool calledDriving Team Performance. Mhmm.
(00:47):
And so it's basically aflywheel. And, basically, a
flywheel is intentional actionsthat you build upon each other
and eventually it starts kind ofcreating this lasting momentum.
And so so I've kind of takenthat flywheel developing team
performance, and we'vesuperimposed it to what that
would look like in marriage. Andso this whole episode is about
(01:08):
actually how to build momentumin marriage.
Lisa (01:11):
Right. I love it. A flywheel, I I I just imagine
it's when you're talking aboutbuilding momentum, it's like
when you start getting skillsand they're in your tool belt.
But some of those become so easyfor us, like Right. Intent and
impact.
That's so easy for us. But whenwe start building all of those
things on, it builds us momentumand this richness in our
(01:34):
relationship. And that's what Ithink of when I think of a
flywheel.
James (01:38):
I think it's a good thought.
Lisa (01:39):
Yeah.
James (01:41):
Hello, and welcome to the art of the spouse podcast. We're
James and Lisa, and we'reexcited you're here with us.
Lisa (01:47):
If you're just tuning in, our goal is simple, to help turn
your marriage into themasterpiece it was meant to be.
We know that strong marriagesdon't just happen by accident.
They take work, intentionality,and a whole lot of grace.
James (02:00):
So each week, we bring encouragement, practical tools,
and a little bit of fun to helpyour relationship grow and
thrive. Let's dive into today'sconversation. So like we said,
we're building out this contentand this idea is based around
really 5 priorities that if wecan begin to build out these
priorities in our marriage andactually practice them, then it
(02:22):
can begin to create thisflywheel of momentum. So, Lisa,
I thought what we could do is Iwould read the thesis statement,
if you will, for each one of thepriorities and then we can kinda
discuss some things, unpack someideas below that.
Lisa (02:34):
Love it.
James (02:34):
Okay. So the first priority to actually create
momentum in your marriage iscommunication. We would say in
our marriage, we prioritize openand intentional communication
that deepens our connection andbuilds trust. And each
conversation becomes anopportunity to grow closer and
strengthen our bond. And I thinkit's a pretty decent statement
about communication.
Right?
Lisa (02:53):
Yeah. I love it. I think communication is a priority in
marriage. I mean, it crossesevery single aspect of our
married life, our parenting, ourfinances, our house, our dealing
with our families, our marriageintimacy, everything, every
single thing. Communication isfoundational.
James (03:08):
That's right.
Lisa (03:08):
And it does have the potential to deepen our
connection Mhmm. Or causedisconnection.
James (03:14):
Right.
Lisa (03:14):
Or it has the opportunity to build trust or breed
distrust. Right. So it'sactually it's critical.
James (03:21):
So, really, this this priority is really foundational
for all the other prioritieswe're gonna talk about in this
episode.
Lisa (03:27):
Exactly.
James (03:27):
Okay. So let's unpack that a little bit. Like, what
are some things that come tomind when we think about
communication?
Lisa (03:34):
The first I think about is creating a safe space. We talk
about this a lot in differentways in an artist's balsam
podcast, but I think that youcreate a safe space for me. I
have a lot of emotions and wordsfor my emotions, a lot of feels
and a lot of words for my feels,and that's not really something
that you that doesn't mean youdon't feel and that you don't
have those type of words
James (03:54):
Right.
Lisa (03:54):
And all the drama that goes with it and aren't you glad
I'm saying all this and you'renot having to say it, but you
actually hold space for me to dothat. Mhmm. You hold space even
though that may not be how youprocess emotion, you hold space
for that. And one of the thingssomehow miraculously from our
very first young 21 years ofage, you've always honored that
(04:15):
space for me. Now you've grownin that and being able to how to
help communicate around that,but that has built trust and
deepened communication.
I never leave those momentsfeeling stupid or, like,
overdramatic, but you've createdthe space for me in that. So
creating a safe place to me isactually there's an art to that
Yeah. And there's a science tothat. There's so much more to
(04:37):
unpack. What do you think?
James (04:38):
Yeah. When I think about that safe space, obviously, you
know, emotional intimacyrequires emotional safety. It's
not just the words we say, butit's also, like, the tone,
facial expression, body languagethat actually creates that space
that what I'm saying or whatyou're saying is actually
Lisa (04:57):
important to one another.
James (04:57):
You know, if I'm completely checked out or on my
phone while you're trying totalk to me, that doesn't really
communicate that it's importantor that I value what you're
saying or that I hear whatyou're saying. And so I think if
we're not careful incommunication, we can be so
distracted intimacy. That reallyis foundational for all
(05:18):
intimacy. Right? If there's notemotional safety, then it's
gonna be hard to grow inintimacy in other areas.
So I think it's a great place toto unpack that is that
communication. It is creatingthat safe space for one another.
Lisa (05:30):
Yeah. It just came to my mind. Number 1, if you are or if
I am violating something, like,with the phone or distracted
with something else, we havegiven each other permission
without feeling defensive tosay, hey. I need your eyes.
Mhmm.
They usually go, hey, James. Ineed your eyes. Or do you need a
minute to finish what you'redoing? Right. Because that's me
saying, I I need you, but I'mnot or you're not listening to
me.
James (05:50):
Right.
Lisa (05:51):
Okay. Just be on your phone then.
James (05:52):
Right.
Lisa (05:53):
That That does not create a safe space. I'm declaring what
I need. I said, whenever youhave a chance, I need your eyes.
James (05:57):
Right.
Lisa (05:57):
But the other thing is is that as a person who expresses a
lot of feels, this could be maleor female. This is not gender
specific. But if I know that I'mgoing on and be laboring a
little bit longer and I can seethat you're possibly starting to
check out, I actually begin toedit and go, the big idea of
what I'm feeling here is.
James (06:15):
Right.
Lisa (06:15):
And so I don't make you stay the journey for all my
lamenting for a long time andthen get mad at you because you
couldn't hang with me becausethat would be like, you, this is
a great illustration taking meout on a bike and making me go
20 miles an hour.
James (06:28):
I'm not
Lisa (06:29):
gonna hang with you, you know, so I don't expect that of
you much. So I try if I startseeing your body language shift,
I actually make a shift andstart editing. The big idea is I
just wanted you to know that,James.
James (06:39):
Yeah.
Lisa (06:40):
Yeah. So I'm building helping build the safety that I
want from you by actuallyediting myself and or asking
what I need from you.
James (06:47):
Yeah. You know, another thing that comes to mind when we
think about this prioritycommunication is when we
actually communicate well, itactually allows us to handle
conflict respectfully. The rootof all conflict is on the
expectations and poorcommunication. Right? Right.
And so, you know, if I
Lisa (07:02):
in a moment
James (07:02):
that you're trying to share to me something and I'm
disconnected, that's gonna causetension in that situation. Or if
I say something, I react acertain way, it's going to cause
conflict. And so usingcommunication and really
prioritizing healthycommunication will allow us to
actually address issues properlyand promptly with love and
(07:23):
respect.
Lisa (07:23):
That's right. In the moment when tension and conflict
comes, it really does require alot of holy spirit Mhmm. Fruit
of spirit in your life becauseyou really, honestly, in our
nature, in our flesh, we wannago, you know what? You're an
idiot. You're not a lot joyright now.
And, unfortunately, I havenavigated with many couples, you
and I both, that in thosemoments of tension actually
(07:44):
attack the character or take apersonal spot of going, you're
just full of joy now, aren'tyou? Yeah. That's not handling
conflict
James (07:52):
Right.
Lisa (07:52):
Respectfully. And so it's really trying to learn to have
restraint and get some skillsand Right. There's so much here.
We could probably do a podcastjust on conflict resolution for
seasons. Yeah.
James (08:05):
That's true. Yep. You know, it's funny. I I think just
recently, I heard somebodytalking about not sure who it
was, but about the fruit of thespirit. You just mentioned that
we love celebrating love, joy,peace
Lisa (08:15):
Long suffering.
James (08:16):
But the last one is self control. The one of the last
ones on the list that we don'treally celebrate. Self control.
But, actually, in communication,when we're gonna deal with
conflict, and we have to controlwhat we say, how we say it, when
we say it, the timing so thatwe're dealing with conflict
respectfully.
Lisa (08:33):
That's right. I love that.
James (08:34):
Yep. Okay. The third thing I was thinking about,
actually, leveraging tools foreffective communication. And
there's several that come tomind. One that, actually, we
talk a lot about in our reboots.
We talk about checkpoints. Mhmm.Things that we can put into our
communication or into ourrelationship that would change
the tone. And so when you couplemoments ago mentioned that I
(08:54):
need your eyes, that's acheckpoint for me to go, oh,
okay. I need to dial in to whatyou're saying instead of you
saying, you never pay attentionto me.
You're just like, hey. I needyour eyes, and that's a
checkpoint.
Lisa (09:05):
Right.
James (09:05):
So that's that's one tool. Another tool that we use
is the 5 gears.
Lisa (09:09):
Mhmm.
James (09:10):
Right? And we've used we've done podcasts on that.
That's a really effective tool.Right?
Lisa (09:14):
So I love 5 years because, you know, my natural gear is 23,
like, being with someone 1 on 1and connecting with them and
being really social and funloving, and I love that. Yours
are 45. You like to head down,get work done, and so we're
actually mindful to know, like,if I if I want effective
(09:34):
communication with you, I'mgoing to actually enter in that
space when I know that you'reready to listen. So nothing
would be worse than me wantingto be in year 2, be, like,
connected with you and you're in5 and I'm trying to I'm trying
to get you to listen to me andyou don't. And then I get mad at
you because you don't.
Yeah. Well, I actually probablyshould have been more sensitive
(09:55):
too. And even when I've said,hey, I need your eyes,
literally, you may say, hey, Ineed a minute to finish what I'm
doing. Yeah. Maybe you are ingear 5.
James (10:02):
That's right.
Lisa (10:03):
And so I'm like, I don't punish you because you had to
finish the text message or theemail or the process that you
were in. 5 gears yet is a veryeffective tool. Maybe we could
include that in the show notesfor someone to get back on us
and
James (10:15):
that That'd be a good one. A new friend of mine,
Jeremy Kupchak, wrote a bookcalled The Communication Code.
And in that book, he lays outthese 5 C's of communication. 1
is care. Don't try to solve me.
Right? We always say, are youwanting me to feel this or fix
this? Right? And sometimes justto be present and to listen. The
second C that he talks about isto celebrate, to enjoy the
moments, recognize what's goingon.
(10:37):
And if something big happens,celebrate those those moments.
The 3rd C talks about iscollaborate, build on
communication together, come tothe best outcomes if if we're
trying to solve a problem. Ilove what Stephen Covey talks
about looking for a win win.
Lisa (10:50):
Mhmm.
James (10:50):
Right? The 4th is critique. So sometimes in
communication, you have to askdifficult questions. And as a
guardian voice who's, you know
Lisa (10:58):
An interrogator?
James (10:59):
Interrogator. Sometimes I I ask a lot of questions.
Sometimes, you know, we we wannanot hold each other accountable.
And sometimes we have to askdifficult questions in
communication. And then the lastthing he talks about is to
clarify the basically havepatients while each other
explaining, trying to pull outof each other information.
So just another great tool, ofhow they do communication. So
(11:20):
okay. So that's the firstpriority. A lot there that we're
gonna continue to work on andunpack, but hopefully some
things that you can take evennow to begin to build some
momentum in your marriage. Thesecond priority, we're calling
that partnership.
Here's kind of our thesisstatement that in our marriage,
we build our partnership on thefoundation of trust. We believe
the best in each other andchoose to see each other's
(11:41):
hearts and intentions withgrace. And trust is our
commitment to honesty,faithfulness, and honoring each
other in words and actions.Yeah.
Lisa (11:49):
I think that it's so important and with the honesty
and honoring are in the samesentences because you can be
honest Mhmm. And be honoring. Itdoesn't have to be mean
spirited. Of course, I alwaysthink in the negative. So it's
like, what does not a honoringlook like when we're honest?
And that's being mean spiritedor attacking character. You
always act like this and here wehere you go again. Maybe it is a
(12:12):
here you go again, but that'sand the way we say it is is it
an honoring way and that we'reactually building trust that we
can come and solve problemstogether and solve dynamics
together. We recently had wealways have some good
conversations about tweaking ourcommunication. Just a couple of
weeks ago, we did, and I thoughtit was honoring.
Mhmm. I was believing the bestin you and I tried to come with
what my ownership in that andwhat can we do better to move
(12:35):
forward the next time that comesaround. And I thought you had a
great collaboration around it.Mhmm. There was a little bit of
critique in there.
Right. But I was believing thebest in you and you were
believing the best in me, but Ithink we cracked the code again.
This is really where we comedown to a lot of our attention
is is in communication,honestly. Yeah. Yeah.
But, nonetheless, we want ourwords to be that we're
partnering together.
James (12:54):
Right.
Lisa (12:54):
We believe the best in one another.
James (12:56):
Yeah.
Lisa (12:57):
I love that idea.
James (12:57):
We're in this together, and one of our mottos is I'm for
you, you're for me. We're inthis together. Right?
Lisa (13:03):
Yeah. I go, I love us. Yes.
James (13:04):
I love us.
Lisa (13:04):
Right. About us. I love us. I'm for us.
James (13:07):
Right. Yeah. And sometimes if we're not careful
in marriage, it can be my wayand your way, and we're kinda
isolated and kinda doing our ownthing. But, really, to have a
marriage with a lot of momentum,we have to be in it together.
And, you know, one of ourfavorite statements is a better
me is a better we.
So as we're unpacking this, oneof the things we wrote down here
is that we need to support eachother's growth. That it's not
(13:29):
just about me getting better,but I want to come alongside you
and help you continue to grow,to have a growth mindset, to
continue to develop yourself.
Lisa (13:37):
Yeah. Just just this week, I said to you, I had an epiphany
about my Enneagram 2 self.
James (13:42):
Mhmm.
Lisa (13:43):
And it was a very vulnerable, like, moment to
share, like, this and actually alittle bit embarrassing. It's
the shadow side of the helperand and it's not cute, you know,
and I've I'm realizing there'ssome areas in my, how I operate,
behave, communicate, and lead isin those low side of my 2 ness.
But, anyway, I shared that withyou and you were like, oh, I get
that. I understand that. Soyou're celebrating my awareness
(14:03):
and you're doing it in anhonoring way and then I'm like,
I really don't know how I'mgonna crack the code on this,
but these are a couple ofthings.
I'm gonna try not to repeatthings that make me feel
insecure. Right. So if I'mtalking to you, James, and I'm
about to tell you a story, I maysay, I'm editing, and that way,
you know, don't ask me aboutthat because I'm about to
rehearse something that doesn'tserve me well. And then that
(14:25):
way, you're partnering with mefor me to be a better me, but
I'm coming to you with thethings I'm learning and growing
in my really deep work. Mhmm.
Like, what's going on in mymind, heart, and spirit? I love
that we sell, and you do thesame with me. You're you're
learning things, and we championin each other.
James (14:40):
Right. Yeah. It it really is fighting for the highest good
for each other. It's thatliberating mindset. And I think
this is really important toowhen you think about we've
worked with a lot of youngleaders in marriage and little
different from when we weregrowing up in marriage when we
were younger is I was theprimary worker.
I, you know, used
Lisa (14:57):
In
James (14:58):
early staying home with the kids, and it's all built
around my career. But nowthere's a lot more 2 careers, 2
visions, 2 callings under onehouse. And so it it can be more
difficult championing oneanother's calling, in,
championing one another's driveand what they're doing. But when
you always go, hey. We're gonnafight for the highest good with
each other, and that takescompromise.
It takes collaboration. But,again, going back to this whole
(15:20):
idea that we're gonna build afoundation of partnership on
trust.
Lisa (15:24):
If you've noticed even in this whole thing that we've
talked about partnership, we'vetalked about a lot about
language with each other. Mhmm.This is why communication is
foundational.
James (15:31):
You can't have a great partnership if you don't have a
foundation of communication.
Lisa (15:34):
That's right. So when you heard me talk about that, I just
thought, you know what? I betterlet him know. I know where we
are, brother. But the deal is Iknow we're on partnership, but
every single one of these, likewe're gonna mention, each of
these priorities uses language.
James (15:46):
Yeah. And I think in that partnership is a desire to know
one another
Lisa (15:50):
Mhmm.
James (15:50):
And to value one another. It's not just about me knowing
myself, but I I really need tobe focused on understanding who
you are, how you're wired, yourcalling, your gifting, your
abilities and your dreams, yourambitions. Right? Knowing those
things and also valuing thosethings and champion those
things. I'm for you and meknowing that you're for me
really helps us to be able toface any challenge or any
(16:12):
obstacle comes our way.
Lisa (16:13):
You know, I love that there's lots of tools right here
that we could talk about. Thelove languages is one of them.
Obviously, mean understandingyour Enneagram and different
things like that help me knowsome of the things that
encourage you and some of thethings that don't encourage you
maybe. But the love languages,I, you know, I remember
different seasons in my lifewhere you started applying this
Mhmm. And showing love for me.
(16:33):
Mine is acts of service. I am agirl of high order. You may not
be actually a guy of high order.Mhmm. However, I will just
celebrate you in this moment.
Your closet, the side of yourcloset always looks better than
mine.
James (16:45):
It does look better than yours.
Lisa (16:46):
It does. And you're at my side of the sink and your side
of the sink in the bathroom,yours always looks tidier than
mine. So with that said, I dolike order and I remember when
when the kids were younger and Iwould be maybe at an event and I
would come home, I had actuallyexpressed, sometimes I don't
like walking into a mess. Mhmm.And not angrily, but I just
mentioned that.
And so you picked up on thatbecause you wanna know me, you
(17:07):
want to value me and how you canaffirm me. And so I would come
in and everything would be likethe kitchen would be cleaned up.
James (17:15):
Right.
Lisa (17:15):
And I was like, he thought of me. This is acts of service,
something that doesn't matter toyou if the kitchen's messy or
not.
James (17:20):
Right.
Lisa (17:21):
I think you've learned to value it in a different way, but
I would come in. And I justwanna mention, any good
housekeeper would know is, like,if I see the kitchen cabinet and
I can see, like, crumbs acrossthe kitchen cabinet, I would see
them. And you know what I woulddo? I wouldn't care because you
made such effort and that thedishes were put away. But did
you wipe the counter down theway I would?
No. No. But, again, trip up of 1or the other spouse that wants
(17:43):
to point out what didn't happen.
James (17:44):
Right.
Lisa (17:45):
But what I said is I see what did happen. All the dishes
are put away. There's a candleburning on the sink. You know,
it's just it's a moment toactually celebrate that you
James (17:54):
Mary White's playing in the background.
Lisa (17:55):
Well, I don't know. Well, that if that was happening,
mister, then that's a tool ofmanipulation. You claimed the
kitchen for
James (18:02):
When you say candles, like, okay. Yeah. She's setting
the mood here. So
Lisa (18:06):
But I just think it's it's cool to see and celebrate when
your spouse spouse is actuallytrying to love on you in your
love language. And it's a youknow, if you don't get the right
gift for her, he's trying. Yep.If he doesn't clean the kitchen
up, just start right. It's good.
If she doesn't give you theright words of affirmation that
don't feel forced, then it'sokay. She's trying. Like, it's
(18:28):
like, have grace for oneanother.
James (18:29):
We're in this together. It's a partnership. Right? And
we we all have flaws. We allhave things that we have to work
on, but we're in it together.
Right?
Lisa (18:36):
That's right.
James (18:37):
So we talked about communication, which is
foundational to the flywheel. Wetalked about partnership. The
third priority that is whatwe're calling purpose. Right?
And this is so important to amarriage relationship.
Here's the statement that we'rebuilding this around is, in our
marriage, we are united by ashared purpose, vision, and
values. And together, we share aclear sense of what we want our
(18:58):
lives and family to look like,and it's guided by values that
reflect our faith, our dreams,and goals as a couple.
Lisa (19:04):
Love it. Yeah. Actually, we both have a individual
purpose in which we defined longago. Right. But we really never
did define our purpose togetheras a married couple.
And I'm sure we were living intoit as we look back. But once we
defined it, wrote it down Mhmm.Talk about a flywheel. You start
getting in a groove and feelingreally confident in your
relationship and what you'redoing, how you operate with your
(19:25):
kids, how we operate with oneanother, how we represent
ourselves in other people,things we say yes and no to.
This is just such a rich, andI'm wondering why we never
defined it earlier.
Yeah. I wish we would have.
James (19:37):
Well, nobody ever really talked to us about it. And I
think that's a real issue formarriages because sometimes we
look at other relationships andwe look at other people and
we're like, oh, they have such agreat relationship, or why can't
our relationship be more likethat, or why don't we act more
like that, or we look atpeople's, like, public persona
of their relationship and don'trealize that behind the scenes,
(19:59):
there's there's a lot going on.There's there's values that they
hold dear. There'scommunication, the way they the
way they communicate. There'sdreams that they have.
One of the things that we dowhen we do, like, marriage
reboots is this is a big pointMhmm. That we work on as a
purpose because you and I areboth individuals. Ephesians 2
talks about us being a uniquemasterpiece designed by God. So
we each have talents, abilities,and so forth that we
(20:21):
individually have, and then webring that together.
Lisa (20:23):
That complement each other.
James (20:24):
That that complement. It go to our spouse and your
palette and my palette come, andit creates a new palette that is
our marriage. And so ourmarriage is gonna be completely
different than our good friends,Dave and Bethany or Greg and
Julie because their purpose isunique to them, and our purpose
is unique to us. But when we canbegin to live into that purpose,
it actually allows us to buildmomentum around why God has
(20:46):
uniquely put us together. Right?
Lisa (20:48):
Right. You know, one of the things that I love,
especially if someone'slistening in your marriage,
you're struggling with how youtalk to one another or behaviors
you have or patterns and habitsthat you have that are just
really irritating one anotherand poking around and causing a
lot of division and tension. Ifeel like this shared purpose
and vision and our values,knowing that what our values are
(21:09):
together, and even knowing ourindividual values that some of
our values, I step on yours andyou step on mine and it causes
some ruckus, you know. But Ilove the idea that when we
understand that, we start livinginto that purpose, into that
vision, into those values, andunderstanding one another's
personal values. A lot of thatother noise and rhetoric and
(21:30):
language and behavior starts todissolve because we both agree
we wanna live on purpose.
Mhmm. And we want our marriageto be serve a purpose.
James (21:39):
Right.
Lisa (21:39):
And as believers, we know the purpose of our marriage to
glorify God. So is our behavior,what we're choosing to do, how
we're choosing to talk, howwe're choosing to live out? Is
it actually bringing glorify toGod and serving our purpose? And
then we go, well, that wholelast 10 minutes of conversation
we had that was a fight actuallydid none of that.
James (21:56):
Right.
Lisa (21:56):
So we gotta change it. I think it helps start putting
guardrails and checkpoints inyour life
James (22:00):
to stop living. To, like, what we're gonna say yes to,
what we're gonna say no to.
Lisa (22:04):
What we're gonna stop doing.
James (22:05):
And we're gonna
Lisa (22:05):
stop doing. Part of it.
James (22:06):
Right.
Lisa (22:07):
Part of our life.
James (22:07):
Yeah. And if we don't pay attention to that, then we can
say yes to everything, and thenwe just run around like a
hamster on the wheel. Right?
Lisa (22:14):
Yeah. Or like I say in the in the south when I saw my
grandpa cut a chicken's headoff, it just runs around without
its head on. You know what? It'sa visual for someone. Visual
James (22:23):
for someone right now.
Lisa (22:24):
So that's where you get where you run around with the
chicken with his head cut off.That's where it comes from, and
I've seen it. Have you seen it,James?
James (22:30):
No. But you've talked about enough that I got the
image.
Lisa (22:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's what it is.
James (22:34):
Part of this too with purpose is understanding and
embracing our unique roles inthe relationship. Again, talk
about communication aspartnership. Well, in the
partnership, there's gonna be aunique roles and purposes that
we play, and it's gonna bedifferent for each couple. So
understanding where we are in arelationship and it's changed
for us over the years. Right?
Early on when the kids wereyounger, you stayed at home and
you took care of the home, tookcare of the kids, and that was a
(22:57):
unique role in that season. Andwe celebrated that and honored
that. But now it's a little bitdifferent. Now the kids are
gone. We're empty nesters, andand you have a really important
leadership role that takes a lotof time.
And so I know that my role nowin the home is to do a little
bit more of the stuff around thehouse because it helps you out
in your role. Right?
Lisa (23:15):
That's right.
James (23:16):
And so I think embracing those roles, and they're not
always gender specific.
Lisa (23:19):
That's right.
James (23:20):
You know? So we need to know what to talk about and
discuss and embrace the theunique roles that we play in our
relationship.
Lisa (23:26):
Right. Back in those days when our kids were little, I
remember doing all the shoppingwith all 3 kids in tow. They
were asking for everything onthe shelf and
James (23:33):
Right.
Lisa (23:34):
And I'm coming home and I'm unloading them by myself and
all the things in meal planning.And you didn't have a lot to do
with that those days. And I didactually celebrate. I loved it.
But actually, 20 years afterthat, I'm like, I'm done.
I've done meal planning andshopping. When I started working
full time, you started helpingout with I'm going shopping.
Right. And then it kinda made aturn and I was like, hey, James,
(23:54):
I can start picking that backup. And you're like, no.
Yeah. You con continue to wannado it for financial reasons
because you actually I call youthe
James (24:03):
suburban attention to the prices.
Lisa (24:04):
Yes. You I call you the suburban hunter.
James (24:06):
That's right.
Lisa (24:07):
So you're, like, getting the prices and and so it's
something I never did pick backup, but I do feel like there are
different roles. One of thethings that I think is unique,
which is why each of these couldbe a podcast of their own is in
parenting. Sometimes there'splaces and spaces that you
think, oh, the dad needs to comein and bring down the well,
sometimes you're like, you havemore relationship with this
child.
James (24:27):
Mhmm.
Lisa (24:27):
You have more leverage with that individual than I do.
Go for it, Lisa. And so thenyou'll back me up all the way
home and but then there aretimes that you need to say stuff
and I need to back you up. Soeven in parenting, even in all
the all the different roles thatwe have, it's going who's the
best suited for that and thencelebrate that and stand behind
one another. Yeah.
James (24:47):
That's good. Okay. So let's go on to the the 4th
priority that we're working on,and that is the priority of
commitment. You can see how eachone of these are building.
Right?
Here's our here's our statementthat we're working around. In
our marriage, we honor ourcommitments to each other
consistently. Just as a teammeets deadlines, we fulfill the
promises we make to each other,whether in small daily acts or
(25:08):
larger commitments.
Lisa (25:09):
Mhmm.
James (25:09):
And I love this because this really goes to one of the
things that we teach a lot isthat we need to practice our
promise daily.
Lisa (25:15):
Right.
James (25:15):
Right?
Lisa (25:16):
Right.
James (25:16):
It's it's not just the vows that we made on day 1. But
every day, my commitment to youis I'm gonna practice my vows to
you and renew those every day.Right?
Lisa (25:25):
That's right. You know what? I'm smiling because I
actually said this this week,and I didn't have a chance to
tell you that I was telling ayoung bride. I was like, we
practice in sickness and inhealth for richer, for poorer,
till death do us part. Right.
Fatter or thinner.
James (25:39):
Hopefully, we're on the thinner side
Lisa (25:41):
this time. But do you know what? That our bodies change,
fatter or thinner.
James (25:44):
That's right.
Lisa (25:45):
Wrinkles or no wrinkles. Mhmm. Great complexion or not.
Right. It's like it's all ofthose things.
There's probably a lot in thatof going. We love each other.
Our commitment to each other isnot based on external things
that are happening around us.They're based on our commitment
to one another. Yeah.
James (25:59):
And it really does start with our daily promises together
and honoring our daily promises.I want you to find me faithful
that, hey, if I say I'm gonna dothis, then I'm gonna do it. If I
say that I'm gonna take care ofthis, I'm gonna take care of it.
And and that really buildstrust.
Lisa (26:14):
It does.
James (26:14):
Over time, it's like I know that you're if you say
you're gonna do it, I can takeyou at your word. Even today, on
the way in here, you asked me todo something, and I said yes.
And if I showed up and had nottaken care of that, brought you
the stuff that you needed, thenthat could have been a mistake.
But it's actually me being trueto the things I said I was gonna
do. And so those those smalldaily decisions actually
(26:36):
compound over time.
Lisa (26:37):
Right.
James (26:37):
It's that small daily choices, smart choices over
time, small daily promises thatwe keep that actually compound
and create trust over time.
Lisa (26:46):
You're it's so true because the reality is you
bringing that stuff in today forme, if you wouldn't have done
that Mhmm. Because you're soconsistent all the time, I would
have gone, oh goodness. Whathappened? Right.
James (26:56):
And you
Lisa (26:57):
would have gone, oh, I forgot it. I'll go back and get
it. But it it is true. All thepromises kept Yeah. Small and
large over time has built somuch trust that it makes way for
grace Yeah.
When it doesn't actually happen.It does matter. And we see this
with couples often. There are alot of those breaches in Mhmm.
Picking up the mail, taking outthe trash, mailing the bill,
whatever the thing is.
James (27:18):
Showing up on time.
Lisa (27:19):
Yeah. That actually erode trust. And so then they think
it's about the one big thingthat they did, but it actually
has been eroding all along andall the small things. And so
those are daily promises that wekeep. I think of even how we
communicate this.
Again, God graced us with thisearly on is a practice that even
when I talk about marriagetension, if I if I were to talk
to about with a female or even atension, if I if I were to talk
to about with a female or even aeven a counselor Mhmm. I would
(27:41):
always keep you in the bestlight. I would not destroy your
character Mhmm. Or speaknegative to that. But if you
heard, oh, Lisa was talking tome about x y z, you can actually
know with confidence, talking tome about x y z, you can actually
know with confidence that Iwould never say anything
disparaging about you.
Yeah. I thought that used to bea female thing Mhmm. That wives
because I've I've seen plenty ofwives get together and bash
(28:03):
their husbands, butunfortunately, time has shown me
that that isn't just
James (28:07):
It's just a people thing.
Lisa (28:08):
It's a people thing. Yeah. So I just think even that is a
daily promise
James (28:12):
That commitment. Yeah.
Lisa (28:13):
I'm gonna be I'm gonna honor you whether you're around
or not. Yeah. Even intentionsof, like, like, hey, our
communication broke down. Sisterfriend, what do you guys do in
your marriage? But and it'slike, oh, we have this tool.
It's always about pro marriage.
James (28:26):
Right.
Lisa (28:26):
It's always about how can I help build stronger? Well, I'm
sure James didn't mean that.Have you ever thought to
approach him this way? Mhmm. AndI'm like, oh, man.
I could probably do that. Yeah.So it's it's it's a growing
conversation, not tearing down.
James (28:38):
One of the things we talk about is that our actions have
consequences, and thoseconsequences create reality.
Lisa (28:44):
Mhmm.
James (28:45):
And so if if our actions or lack of action can also have
negative consequences. So if wesay we're gonna do something and
we don't do it, that causes anegative consequence. And it
creates this reality orperception that you don't keep
your word or that's what youalways do or you always act that
way. So if we can keep ourcommitments and creates those
positive consequences, then thereality is that I know I can
(29:06):
trust you. I think another placethat this shows up is in
finances.
One of the major tensions inmarriage is around finances and
the use of money. And so I thinkeven on the practical side of
keeping our commitments to ourbudget, keeping our commitments
to spending, how we use money,and, you know, all those things
kinda build into this idea ofcommitment.
Lisa (29:26):
That's right. I I was just thinking of the idea of hiding
what we spend Mhmm. Is actuallylying. Mhmm.
James (29:33):
Yeah. It's a lack of commitment Yeah. To one another.
Right?
Lisa (29:35):
I'm like, oh, I'm going to stash this cash and spend it the
way I want, or I'm gonna andspend. You know, that's it's
it's eroding trust.
James (29:44):
Right.
Lisa (29:44):
And, it actually is avoiding communication on what
our goals are and what whatwe're living into. And even
coming together and having thatcritique conversation of, like,
asking the hard questions andthen us both coming non
defensive. I will say this is atouchy area for us early on of,
like, you trying to categorizebudget items and me feeling
attacked by you wasn't veryproductive. You were literally
(30:05):
just going, where do I itemizethis expense? You know?
And I got all up in arms likeyou're judging me or something.
I think it's just really comingwith defenses down, but really
trying to honor our again, backto purpose and vision. Mhmm. We
have some financial goals we'rewanting to do. If I'm out Amazon
shopping, not out in my pajamas,Amazon shopping all day.
James (30:24):
I'm going out to the Amazon.
Lisa (30:26):
Yeah. No. So I just go I wanna honor those things, but I
often hear about people hiding.And I just wanna say that that's
actually eroding a commitment.Yeah.
Because it's it's it's line. I'mI hate to say it, but it's it's
what it is. It's line. Yeah.
James (30:40):
It it yeah. And so okay. So we're building this flywheel.
Good communication leads to astrong partnership, which leads
to fulfilling and alignment withour purpose, vision, and values
that creates commitment. Right?
And then the 5th priority thatwe want to talk about for a few
minutes here is growth. Here's astatement that we'd say about
growth is that in our marriage,we invest strategically in the
(31:02):
most important areas, time,energy and resources. We
prioritize quality timetogether, intentionally setting
aside moments to connect deeply,nurture our relationship, and
create lasting memories.
Lisa (31:13):
Love it. That is so good. And then you know what? I just
wanna give us a I wanted to saya plus on this, but I I mean, we
always have room for growth, butI'd say at least an a minus.
James (31:22):
On growth, I think we try to grow,
Lisa (31:23):
don't we? I think we really try to prioritize time,
energy, and even in our calendarand putting the big rocks in
first. I think of fun andadventure. Mhmm. And this is
like growth isn't just likegrowth.
Like, I'm building muscle andI'm working out. You know, I'm
sweating to death and eating rawvegetables all day long. It's
like it's it's a part of that,but it's the fun. It's the
adventure in life and growingand creating memories together.
James (31:43):
Yeah. Some of the things that we've done in investing
time, energy, and resources arejust the 2 of us, Trent. Even
when the kids were younger, wealways prioritize getting away
by ourselves for that dedicated,intense, intimate time together
for, you know, what started outas a couple days. Now it's a
little bit longer. But thatrequires intentionality.
It requires resource. Itrequires energy to put together,
(32:06):
but it also has allowed us tostay connected, to keep growing
our intimacy, to dream together.The fact that we're doing this
podcast came out of one of ourjust the 2 of us trips that we
were dreaming together. Like,hey. How what if we day.
One day. What if we Yeah.Started just talking about our
marriage and giving some toolsand tips? I think some of the
other things that we we can doto invest our our time and
(32:29):
resources is obviously datenights.
Lisa (32:31):
Mhmm.
James (32:31):
You know, or date breakfasts.
Lisa (32:33):
Yep. We've got plenty of those. Yeah. Alright. Also love
the idea of investing ourselvesin our marriage and retreats
Mhmm.
Community in different types ofgrowth communities that you can
be a part of. Reboot, which isan investment into your marriage
relationship to help and giveframework for where you're going
and where you wanna go.Oftentimes, you know, even with
a reboot, sometimes have peoplehave a challenge of investing
(32:56):
that kind of money. And I'm I'mthinking to myself, when have we
actually invested in ourmarriage in that way, in that
intentional way? Now it is greatto go on just the 2 of us trip,
you know, and set out in the sunand do nothing, which is very
valuable.
It's such a replenishing time,but there is a time for growth
in that classes, marriagecollective, you
James (33:15):
know. Small groups.
Lisa (33:16):
Small groups. Whatever it is. But it may be investing
time. It may be investingresource, but it's just so
important.
James (33:22):
Yeah. You're so right, Lisa. I heard someone time that
as parents we'll invest 1,000and 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars
in our kids in sports, gettingthem to the right coach on the
right team. But, you know, oncewe're adults, we don't invest in
our skills. And one of our mostimportant skills that we need to
invest in is our marriage.
Lisa (33:40):
Right. We want it to come for free. Free 99. Free 99.
James (33:44):
Yeah. And so we we don't really set aside that fact that,
like, hey. When you get married,you're not all that yet. Like,
you need to continue to grow anddevelop. And so the things like
we do with, like, the marriagereboots, which is that 2 day
intensive is the time thatmaybe, you know, just a reboot
that gets some new tools and newnew work around your marriage.
This year, we're starting TheCollective, which is our
marriage community, ongoingcoaching community. The other
(34:06):
thing I'm really excited about,we started dreaming about a
little bit, is that in fall2025, we're gonna host our 1st
artist spousine marriageretreat.
Lisa (34:14):
I know. I'm excited about it. We're dreaming about it and,
James (34:17):
it's be amazing.
Lisa (34:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like an infusion, those vitamin
infusions where they hook you upin your in right, intravenously.
James (34:23):
Right.
Lisa (34:24):
Just fuse give life and energy and vitamin and resource
to your body. That's what theretreat is gonna be. It's gonna
be a time just to infuse toolsMhmm. Time, refreshment, and,
I'm I'm excited about it.
James (34:36):
So there's time, energy, resources. I think it's also
supporting each other's growth,you know, champion each each
other to do some things, whetherthat's mentally, physically,
emotionally. You may need toencourage each other to do some
emotional work. I know thatthere are marriage together.
There's been seasons that we'vehad to work through some
emotional baggage from the pastand encouraging that and
(34:57):
resourcing that so that you youboth can stay healthy and grow.
Right?
Lisa (35:00):
That's right. And it it's a it's a resource. I mean, we've
spent good money on counselingfor myself and, actually, we
have spent good money incounseling for you because it's
your bike. You get on your bike,which has been that was supposed
to be funny, James. It was funnybecause you spent some money on
your bike.
I
James (35:14):
have spent a lot of money on my bike. That's But
Lisa (35:16):
it's your therapy. It really is. And I actually
appreciate and see that is a wayfrom you to decompress and
process much like I do withwords and language with a
therapist, but those are thingswe actually invest money in.
They're they have been criticalinto the health and life and the
emotional health of each other.So yeah.
James (35:34):
Yeah. I actually have a t shirt. It's one of my favorite t
shirts.
Lisa (35:36):
It
James (35:36):
says cycling is my therapist.
Lisa (35:38):
So That's right. But there's also professional
pursuits. You know, I wanted togo back to school, and we made
the financial commitment for meto get my bachelor's degree
later in adult learning. And andthen there's spiritual growth of
the places we wanna invest, andit may be a spiritual retreat.
We wanna fan the flame for allof that in each other's lives.
James (35:54):
Yeah. The big deal there is that we wanna encourage each
other to have a growth mindsetindividually and together. That
we haven't arrived. We're stilllearning. We're still growing.
We're discovering new thingsabout our communication,
discovering new things about howto deal with conflict because
those things always come around.And so we want to continue to
grow and keep that flywheel ofmomentum happening. It starts
(36:17):
with communication. That's thefoundation of a great
relationship. We wanna reallyconnect in our partnership
together that we're in thistogether.
We wanna know what our purposeis and really live out our
purpose, our vision, our values,and then really be committed to
each other. Mhmm. You know, inthose daily promises, making
every day count and living outour our our promises daily. And
(36:38):
then having that growth mindset,and that creates this flywheel I
Lisa (36:41):
love it.
James (36:41):
Of momentum in our marriage. So, you know, we're
still kinda processing it, butthat's kind of the raw form of
new teaching that we're gonna beworking on. You'll probably hear
us talk more about that in theepisodes that come, but that was
fun.
Lisa (36:53):
I loved it. I loved it. I think as we're gonna go back and
listen to it because I thinkthere's a lot of practical
application and tools in eachone of those that we can build
stronger communication,commitment, perfect, all of that
that will help, strengthenmarriages that all of you that
are listening Yeah. Aren'tespousing. We want it that's
what our purpose is.
James (37:11):
That's right. So, maybe You
Lisa (37:13):
know what? We're living out our purpose right now.
James (37:15):
We are. Look at this. Yeah. Look at us. And we're
growing because we're gettingbetter.
Lisa (37:19):
So That's right.
James (37:20):
Yeah. So I wanna encourage you maybe just to take
one of those priorities andmaybe focus on maybe have a
conversation with each otherthis week about, hey, how we
doing in this area and how canwe grow? How can we get better
and go from there?
Lisa (37:31):
I love it.
James (37:32):
Thanks for joining us today on the Artist Bousin
Podcast. We're really glad thatyou took the time listening to
us. We really appreciate youbeing a part of the community
and looking forward to be on thepodcast together again. Right?
Yeah.
Lisa (37:43):
So until then, bye bye. Hey, friends. Before you go,
don't forget to follow us onInstagram at Artis Bousin and
sign up for our newsletter inthe show notes to stay updated
on all things art espousing.We've got some exciting
announcements coming soon, andyou're not gonna wanna miss out.
So today's episode's gonna be a little different.
We're gonna experiment and trysomething different. A lot of
times, we'll prepare content andthen teach it, but, actually,
Lisa, we've been working on somenew content. And so instead of
just throwing it out there, wethought we'd kinda bring you
along on our journey ofdiscussing it.
Lisa (00:14):
Right. It's kind of like a behind the scenes of content
preparation, and it might getspicy because I may go, I don't
dis I disagree with that, James.
James (00:22):
Right.
Lisa (00:22):
So just so you know, if we do that, we still love each
other. Right?
James (00:25):
That's right. So for several years now, I've been
working with a organizationcalled Giant, and they do a lot
of leadership and personaldevelopment tools. In the last
several months, I've beenlooking at how to take some of
those concepts and actuallyapply them to marriage because I
think they're they overlapfairly well. So one of the tools
that Giant uses is a tool calledDriving Team Performance. Mhmm.
(00:47):
And so it's basically aflywheel. And, basically, a
flywheel is intentional actionsthat you build upon each other
and eventually it starts kind ofcreating this lasting momentum.
And so so I've kind of takenthat flywheel developing team
performance, and we'vesuperimposed it to what that
would look like in marriage. Andso this whole episode is about
(01:08):
actually how to build momentumin marriage.
Lisa (01:11):
Right. I love it. A flywheel, I I I just imagine
it's when you're talking aboutbuilding momentum, it's like
when you start getting skillsand they're in your tool belt.
But some of those become so easyfor us, like Right. Intent and
impact.
That's so easy for us. But whenwe start building all of those
things on, it builds us momentumand this richness in our
(01:34):
relationship. And that's what Ithink of when I think of a
flywheel.
James (01:38):
I think it's a good thought.
Lisa (01:39):
Yeah.
James (01:41):
Hello, and welcome to the art of the spouse podcast. We're
James and Lisa, and we'reexcited you're here with us.
Lisa (01:47):
If you're just tuning in, our goal is simple, to help turn
your marriage into themasterpiece it was meant to be.
We know that strong marriagesdon't just happen by accident.
They take work, intentionality,and a whole lot of grace.
James (02:00):
So each week, we bring encouragement, practical tools,
and a little bit of fun to helpyour relationship grow and
thrive. Let's dive into today'sconversation. So like we said,
we're building out this contentand this idea is based around
really 5 priorities that if wecan begin to build out these
priorities in our marriage andactually practice them, then it
(02:22):
can begin to create thisflywheel of momentum. So, Lisa,
I thought what we could do is Iwould read the thesis statement,
if you will, for each one of thepriorities and then we can kinda
discuss some things, unpack someideas below that.
Lisa (02:34):
Love it.
James (02:34):
Okay. So the first priority to actually create
momentum in your marriage iscommunication. We would say in
our marriage, we prioritize openand intentional communication
that deepens our connection andbuilds trust. And each
conversation becomes anopportunity to grow closer and
strengthen our bond. And I thinkit's a pretty decent statement
about communication.
Right?
Lisa (02:53):
Yeah. I love it. I think communication is a priority in
marriage. I mean, it crossesevery single aspect of our
married life, our parenting, ourfinances, our house, our dealing
with our families, our marriageintimacy, everything, every
single thing. Communication isfoundational.
James (03:08):
That's right.
Lisa (03:08):
And it does have the potential to deepen our
connection Mhmm. Or causedisconnection.
James (03:14):
Right.
Lisa (03:14):
Or it has the opportunity to build trust or breed
distrust. Right. So it'sactually it's critical.
James (03:21):
So, really, this this priority is really foundational
for all the other prioritieswe're gonna talk about in this
episode.
Lisa (03:27):
Exactly.
James (03:27):
Okay. So let's unpack that a little bit. Like, what
are some things that come tomind when we think about
communication?
Lisa (03:34):
The first I think about is creating a safe space. We talk
about this a lot in differentways in an artist's balsam
podcast, but I think that youcreate a safe space for me. I
have a lot of emotions and wordsfor my emotions, a lot of feels
and a lot of words for my feels,and that's not really something
that you that doesn't mean youdon't feel and that you don't
have those type of words
James (03:54):
Right.
Lisa (03:54):
And all the drama that goes with it and aren't you glad
I'm saying all this and you'renot having to say it, but you
actually hold space for me to dothat. Mhmm. You hold space even
though that may not be how youprocess emotion, you hold space
for that. And one of the thingssomehow miraculously from our
very first young 21 years ofage, you've always honored that
(04:15):
space for me. Now you've grownin that and being able to how to
help communicate around that,but that has built trust and
deepened communication.
I never leave those momentsfeeling stupid or, like,
overdramatic, but you've createdthe space for me in that. So
creating a safe place to me isactually there's an art to that
Yeah. And there's a science tothat. There's so much more to
(04:37):
unpack. What do you think?
James (04:38):
Yeah. When I think about that safe space, obviously, you
know, emotional intimacyrequires emotional safety. It's
not just the words we say, butit's also, like, the tone,
facial expression, body languagethat actually creates that space
that what I'm saying or whatyou're saying is actually
Lisa (04:57):
important to one another.
James (04:57):
You know, if I'm completely checked out or on my
phone while you're trying totalk to me, that doesn't really
communicate that it's importantor that I value what you're
saying or that I hear whatyou're saying. And so I think if
we're not careful incommunication, we can be so
distracted intimacy. That reallyis foundational for all
(05:18):
intimacy. Right? If there's notemotional safety, then it's
gonna be hard to grow inintimacy in other areas.
So I think it's a great place toto unpack that is that
communication. It is creatingthat safe space for one another.
Lisa (05:30):
Yeah. It just came to my mind. Number 1, if you are or if
I am violating something, like,with the phone or distracted
with something else, we havegiven each other permission
without feeling defensive tosay, hey. I need your eyes.
Mhmm.
They usually go, hey, James. Ineed your eyes. Or do you need a
minute to finish what you'redoing? Right. Because that's me
saying, I I need you, but I'mnot or you're not listening to
me.
James (05:50):
Right.
Lisa (05:51):
Okay. Just be on your phone then.
James (05:52):
Right.
Lisa (05:53):
That That does not create a safe space. I'm declaring what
I need. I said, whenever youhave a chance, I need your eyes.
James (05:57):
Right.
Lisa (05:57):
But the other thing is is that as a person who expresses a
lot of feels, this could be maleor female. This is not gender
specific. But if I know that I'mgoing on and be laboring a
little bit longer and I can seethat you're possibly starting to
check out, I actually begin toedit and go, the big idea of
what I'm feeling here is.
James (06:15):
Right.
Lisa (06:15):
And so I don't make you stay the journey for all my
lamenting for a long time andthen get mad at you because you
couldn't hang with me becausethat would be like, you, this is
a great illustration taking meout on a bike and making me go
20 miles an hour.
James (06:28):
I'm not
Lisa (06:29):
gonna hang with you, you know, so I don't expect that of
you much. So I try if I startseeing your body language shift,
I actually make a shift andstart editing. The big idea is I
just wanted you to know that,James.
James (06:39):
Yeah.
Lisa (06:40):
Yeah. So I'm building helping build the safety that I
want from you by actuallyediting myself and or asking
what I need from you.
James (06:47):
Yeah. You know, another thing that comes to mind when we
think about this prioritycommunication is when we
actually communicate well, itactually allows us to handle
conflict respectfully. The rootof all conflict is on the
expectations and poorcommunication. Right? Right.
And so, you know, if I
Lisa (07:02):
in a moment
James (07:02):
that you're trying to share to me something and I'm
disconnected, that's gonna causetension in that situation. Or if
I say something, I react acertain way, it's going to cause
conflict. And so usingcommunication and really
prioritizing healthycommunication will allow us to
actually address issues properlyand promptly with love and
(07:23):
respect.
Lisa (07:23):
That's right. In the moment when tension and conflict
comes, it really does require alot of holy spirit Mhmm. Fruit
of spirit in your life becauseyou really, honestly, in our
nature, in our flesh, we wannago, you know what? You're an
idiot. You're not a lot joyright now.
And, unfortunately, I havenavigated with many couples, you
and I both, that in thosemoments of tension actually
(07:44):
attack the character or take apersonal spot of going, you're
just full of joy now, aren'tyou? Yeah. That's not handling
conflict
James (07:52):
Right.
Lisa (07:52):
Respectfully. And so it's really trying to learn to have
restraint and get some skillsand Right. There's so much here.
We could probably do a podcastjust on conflict resolution for
seasons. Yeah.
James (08:05):
That's true. Yep. You know, it's funny. I I think just
recently, I heard somebodytalking about not sure who it
was, but about the fruit of thespirit. You just mentioned that
we love celebrating love, joy,peace
Lisa (08:15):
Long suffering.
James (08:16):
But the last one is self control. The one of the last
ones on the list that we don'treally celebrate. Self control.
But, actually, in communication,when we're gonna deal with
conflict, and we have to controlwhat we say, how we say it, when
we say it, the timing so thatwe're dealing with conflict
respectfully.
Lisa (08:33):
That's right. I love that.
James (08:34):
Yep. Okay. The third thing I was thinking about,
actually, leveraging tools foreffective communication. And
there's several that come tomind. One that, actually, we
talk a lot about in our reboots.
We talk about checkpoints. Mhmm.Things that we can put into our
communication or into ourrelationship that would change
the tone. And so when you couplemoments ago mentioned that I
(08:54):
need your eyes, that's acheckpoint for me to go, oh,
okay. I need to dial in to whatyou're saying instead of you
saying, you never pay attentionto me.
You're just like, hey. I needyour eyes, and that's a
checkpoint.
Lisa (09:05):
Right.
James (09:05):
So that's that's one tool. Another tool that we use
is the 5 gears.
Lisa (09:09):
Mhmm.
James (09:10):
Right? And we've used we've done podcasts on that.
That's a really effective tool.Right?
Lisa (09:14):
So I love 5 years because, you know, my natural gear is 23,
like, being with someone 1 on 1and connecting with them and
being really social and funloving, and I love that. Yours
are 45. You like to head down,get work done, and so we're
actually mindful to know, like,if I if I want effective
(09:34):
communication with you, I'mgoing to actually enter in that
space when I know that you'reready to listen. So nothing
would be worse than me wantingto be in year 2, be, like,
connected with you and you're in5 and I'm trying to I'm trying
to get you to listen to me andyou don't. And then I get mad at
you because you don't.
Yeah. Well, I actually probablyshould have been more sensitive
(09:55):
too. And even when I've said,hey, I need your eyes,
literally, you may say, hey, Ineed a minute to finish what I'm
doing. Yeah. Maybe you are ingear 5.
James (10:02):
That's right.
Lisa (10:03):
And so I'm like, I don't punish you because you had to
finish the text message or theemail or the process that you
were in. 5 gears yet is a veryeffective tool. Maybe we could
include that in the show notesfor someone to get back on us
and
James (10:15):
that That'd be a good one. A new friend of mine,
Jeremy Kupchak, wrote a bookcalled The Communication Code.
And in that book, he lays outthese 5 C's of communication. 1
is care. Don't try to solve me.
Right? We always say, are youwanting me to feel this or fix
this? Right? And sometimes justto be present and to listen. The
second C that he talks about isto celebrate, to enjoy the
moments, recognize what's goingon.
(10:37):
And if something big happens,celebrate those those moments.
The 3rd C talks about iscollaborate, build on
communication together, come tothe best outcomes if if we're
trying to solve a problem. Ilove what Stephen Covey talks
about looking for a win win.
Lisa (10:50):
Mhmm.
James (10:50):
Right? The 4th is critique. So sometimes in
communication, you have to askdifficult questions. And as a
guardian voice who's, you know
Lisa (10:58):
An interrogator?
James (10:59):
Interrogator. Sometimes I I ask a lot of questions.
Sometimes, you know, we we wannanot hold each other accountable.
And sometimes we have to askdifficult questions in
communication. And then the lastthing he talks about is to
clarify the basically havepatients while each other
explaining, trying to pull outof each other information.
So just another great tool, ofhow they do communication. So
(11:20):
okay. So that's the firstpriority. A lot there that we're
gonna continue to work on andunpack, but hopefully some
things that you can take evennow to begin to build some
momentum in your marriage. Thesecond priority, we're calling
that partnership.
Here's kind of our thesisstatement that in our marriage,
we build our partnership on thefoundation of trust. We believe
the best in each other andchoose to see each other's
(11:41):
hearts and intentions withgrace. And trust is our
commitment to honesty,faithfulness, and honoring each
other in words and actions.Yeah.
Lisa (11:49):
I think that it's so important and with the honesty
and honoring are in the samesentences because you can be
honest Mhmm. And be honoring. Itdoesn't have to be mean
spirited. Of course, I alwaysthink in the negative. So it's
like, what does not a honoringlook like when we're honest?
And that's being mean spiritedor attacking character. You
always act like this and here wehere you go again. Maybe it is a
(12:12):
here you go again, but that'sand the way we say it is is it
an honoring way and that we'reactually building trust that we
can come and solve problemstogether and solve dynamics
together. We recently had wealways have some good
conversations about tweaking ourcommunication. Just a couple of
weeks ago, we did, and I thoughtit was honoring.
Mhmm. I was believing the bestin you and I tried to come with
what my ownership in that andwhat can we do better to move
(12:35):
forward the next time that comesaround. And I thought you had a
great collaboration around it.Mhmm. There was a little bit of
critique in there.
Right. But I was believing thebest in you and you were
believing the best in me, but Ithink we cracked the code again.
This is really where we comedown to a lot of our attention
is is in communication,honestly. Yeah. Yeah.
But, nonetheless, we want ourwords to be that we're
partnering together.
James (12:54):
Right.
Lisa (12:54):
We believe the best in one another.
James (12:56):
Yeah.
Lisa (12:57):
I love that idea.
James (12:57):
We're in this together, and one of our mottos is I'm for
you, you're for me. We're inthis together. Right?
Lisa (13:03):
Yeah. I go, I love us. Yes.
James (13:04):
I love us.
Lisa (13:04):
Right. About us. I love us. I'm for us.
James (13:07):
Right. Yeah. And sometimes if we're not careful
in marriage, it can be my wayand your way, and we're kinda
isolated and kinda doing our ownthing. But, really, to have a
marriage with a lot of momentum,we have to be in it together.
And, you know, one of ourfavorite statements is a better
me is a better we.
So as we're unpacking this, oneof the things we wrote down here
is that we need to support eachother's growth. That it's not
(13:29):
just about me getting better,but I want to come alongside you
and help you continue to grow,to have a growth mindset, to
continue to develop yourself.
Lisa (13:37):
Yeah. Just just this week, I said to you, I had an epiphany
about my Enneagram 2 self.
James (13:42):
Mhmm.
Lisa (13:43):
And it was a very vulnerable, like, moment to
share, like, this and actually alittle bit embarrassing. It's
the shadow side of the helperand and it's not cute, you know,
and I've I'm realizing there'ssome areas in my, how I operate,
behave, communicate, and lead isin those low side of my 2 ness.
But, anyway, I shared that withyou and you were like, oh, I get
that. I understand that. Soyou're celebrating my awareness
(14:03):
and you're doing it in anhonoring way and then I'm like,
I really don't know how I'mgonna crack the code on this,
but these are a couple ofthings.
I'm gonna try not to repeatthings that make me feel
insecure. Right. So if I'mtalking to you, James, and I'm
about to tell you a story, I maysay, I'm editing, and that way,
you know, don't ask me aboutthat because I'm about to
rehearse something that doesn'tserve me well. And then that
(14:25):
way, you're partnering with mefor me to be a better me, but
I'm coming to you with thethings I'm learning and growing
in my really deep work. Mhmm.
Like, what's going on in mymind, heart, and spirit? I love
that we sell, and you do thesame with me. You're you're
learning things, and we championin each other.
James (14:40):
Right. Yeah. It it really is fighting for the highest good
for each other. It's thatliberating mindset. And I think
this is really important toowhen you think about we've
worked with a lot of youngleaders in marriage and little
different from when we weregrowing up in marriage when we
were younger is I was theprimary worker.
I, you know, used
Lisa (14:57):
In
James (14:58):
early staying home with the kids, and it's all built
around my career. But nowthere's a lot more 2 careers, 2
visions, 2 callings under onehouse. And so it it can be more
difficult championing oneanother's calling, in,
championing one another's driveand what they're doing. But when
you always go, hey. We're gonnafight for the highest good with
each other, and that takescompromise.
It takes collaboration. But,again, going back to this whole
(15:20):
idea that we're gonna build afoundation of partnership on
trust.
Lisa (15:24):
If you've noticed even in this whole thing that we've
talked about partnership, we'vetalked about a lot about
language with each other. Mhmm.This is why communication is
foundational.
James (15:31):
You can't have a great partnership if you don't have a
foundation of communication.
Lisa (15:34):
That's right. So when you heard me talk about that, I just
thought, you know what? I betterlet him know. I know where we
are, brother. But the deal is Iknow we're on partnership, but
every single one of these, likewe're gonna mention, each of
these priorities uses language.
James (15:46):
Yeah. And I think in that partnership is a desire to know
one another
Lisa (15:50):
Mhmm.
James (15:50):
And to value one another. It's not just about me knowing
myself, but I I really need tobe focused on understanding who
you are, how you're wired, yourcalling, your gifting, your
abilities and your dreams, yourambitions. Right? Knowing those
things and also valuing thosethings and champion those
things. I'm for you and meknowing that you're for me
really helps us to be able toface any challenge or any
(16:12):
obstacle comes our way.
Lisa (16:13):
You know, I love that there's lots of tools right here
that we could talk about. Thelove languages is one of them.
Obviously, mean understandingyour Enneagram and different
things like that help me knowsome of the things that
encourage you and some of thethings that don't encourage you
maybe. But the love languages,I, you know, I remember
different seasons in my lifewhere you started applying this
Mhmm. And showing love for me.
(16:33):
Mine is acts of service. I am agirl of high order. You may not
be actually a guy of high order.Mhmm. However, I will just
celebrate you in this moment.
Your closet, the side of yourcloset always looks better than
mine.
James (16:45):
It does look better than yours.
Lisa (16:46):
It does. And you're at my side of the sink and your side
of the sink in the bathroom,yours always looks tidier than
mine. So with that said, I dolike order and I remember when
when the kids were younger and Iwould be maybe at an event and I
would come home, I had actuallyexpressed, sometimes I don't
like walking into a mess. Mhmm.And not angrily, but I just
mentioned that.
And so you picked up on thatbecause you wanna know me, you
(17:07):
want to value me and how you canaffirm me. And so I would come
in and everything would be likethe kitchen would be cleaned up.
James (17:15):
Right.
Lisa (17:15):
And I was like, he thought of me. This is acts of service,
something that doesn't matter toyou if the kitchen's messy or
not.
James (17:20):
Right.
Lisa (17:21):
I think you've learned to value it in a different way, but
I would come in. And I justwanna mention, any good
housekeeper would know is, like,if I see the kitchen cabinet and
I can see, like, crumbs acrossthe kitchen cabinet, I would see
them. And you know what I woulddo? I wouldn't care because you
made such effort and that thedishes were put away. But did
you wipe the counter down theway I would?
No. No. But, again, trip up of 1or the other spouse that wants
(17:43):
to point out what didn't happen.
James (17:44):
Right.
Lisa (17:45):
But what I said is I see what did happen. All the dishes
are put away. There's a candleburning on the sink. You know,
it's just it's a moment toactually celebrate that you
James (17:54):
Mary White's playing in the background.
Lisa (17:55):
Well, I don't know. Well, that if that was happening,
mister, then that's a tool ofmanipulation. You claimed the
kitchen for
James (18:02):
When you say candles, like, okay. Yeah. She's setting
the mood here. So
Lisa (18:06):
But I just think it's it's cool to see and celebrate when
your spouse spouse is actuallytrying to love on you in your
love language. And it's a youknow, if you don't get the right
gift for her, he's trying. Yep.If he doesn't clean the kitchen
up, just start right. It's good.
If she doesn't give you theright words of affirmation that
don't feel forced, then it'sokay. She's trying. Like, it's
(18:28):
like, have grace for oneanother.
James (18:29):
We're in this together. It's a partnership. Right? And
we we all have flaws. We allhave things that we have to work
on, but we're in it together.
Right?
Lisa (18:36):
That's right.
James (18:37):
So we talked about communication, which is
foundational to the flywheel. Wetalked about partnership. The
third priority that is whatwe're calling purpose. Right?
And this is so important to amarriage relationship.
Here's the statement that we'rebuilding this around is, in our
marriage, we are united by ashared purpose, vision, and
values. And together, we share aclear sense of what we want our
(18:58):
lives and family to look like,and it's guided by values that
reflect our faith, our dreams,and goals as a couple.
Lisa (19:04):
Love it. Yeah. Actually, we both have a individual
purpose in which we defined longago. Right. But we really never
did define our purpose togetheras a married couple.
And I'm sure we were living intoit as we look back. But once we
defined it, wrote it down Mhmm.Talk about a flywheel. You start
getting in a groove and feelingreally confident in your
relationship and what you'redoing, how you operate with your
(19:25):
kids, how we operate with oneanother, how we represent
ourselves in other people,things we say yes and no to.
This is just such a rich, andI'm wondering why we never
defined it earlier.
Yeah. I wish we would have.
James (19:37):
Well, nobody ever really talked to us about it. And I
think that's a real issue formarriages because sometimes we
look at other relationships andwe look at other people and
we're like, oh, they have such agreat relationship, or why can't
our relationship be more likethat, or why don't we act more
like that, or we look atpeople's, like, public persona
of their relationship and don'trealize that behind the scenes,
(19:59):
there's there's a lot going on.There's there's values that they
hold dear. There'scommunication, the way they the
way they communicate. There'sdreams that they have.
One of the things that we dowhen we do, like, marriage
reboots is this is a big pointMhmm. That we work on as a
purpose because you and I areboth individuals. Ephesians 2
talks about us being a uniquemasterpiece designed by God. So
we each have talents, abilities,and so forth that we
(20:21):
individually have, and then webring that together.
Lisa (20:23):
That complement each other.
James (20:24):
That that complement. It go to our spouse and your
palette and my palette come, andit creates a new palette that is
our marriage. And so ourmarriage is gonna be completely
different than our good friends,Dave and Bethany or Greg and
Julie because their purpose isunique to them, and our purpose
is unique to us. But when we canbegin to live into that purpose,
it actually allows us to buildmomentum around why God has
(20:46):
uniquely put us together. Right?
Lisa (20:48):
Right. You know, one of the things that I love,
especially if someone'slistening in your marriage,
you're struggling with how youtalk to one another or behaviors
you have or patterns and habitsthat you have that are just
really irritating one anotherand poking around and causing a
lot of division and tension. Ifeel like this shared purpose
and vision and our values,knowing that what our values are
(21:09):
together, and even knowing ourindividual values that some of
our values, I step on yours andyou step on mine and it causes
some ruckus, you know. But Ilove the idea that when we
understand that, we start livinginto that purpose, into that
vision, into those values, andunderstanding one another's
personal values. A lot of thatother noise and rhetoric and
(21:30):
language and behavior starts todissolve because we both agree
we wanna live on purpose.
Mhmm. And we want our marriageto be serve a purpose.
James (21:39):
Right.
Lisa (21:39):
And as believers, we know the purpose of our marriage to
glorify God. So is our behavior,what we're choosing to do, how
we're choosing to talk, howwe're choosing to live out? Is
it actually bringing glorify toGod and serving our purpose? And
then we go, well, that wholelast 10 minutes of conversation
we had that was a fight actuallydid none of that.
James (21:56):
Right.
Lisa (21:56):
So we gotta change it. I think it helps start putting
guardrails and checkpoints inyour life
James (22:00):
to stop living. To, like, what we're gonna say yes to,
what we're gonna say no to.
Lisa (22:04):
What we're gonna stop doing.
James (22:05):
And we're gonna
Lisa (22:05):
stop doing. Part of it.
James (22:06):
Right.
Lisa (22:07):
Part of our life.
James (22:07):
Yeah. And if we don't pay attention to that, then we can
say yes to everything, and thenwe just run around like a
hamster on the wheel. Right?
Lisa (22:14):
Yeah. Or like I say in the in the south when I saw my
grandpa cut a chicken's headoff, it just runs around without
its head on. You know what? It'sa visual for someone. Visual
James (22:23):
for someone right now.
Lisa (22:24):
So that's where you get where you run around with the
chicken with his head cut off.That's where it comes from, and
I've seen it. Have you seen it,James?
James (22:30):
No. But you've talked about enough that I got the
image.
Lisa (22:33):
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's what it is.
James (22:34):
Part of this too with purpose is understanding and
embracing our unique roles inthe relationship. Again, talk
about communication aspartnership. Well, in the
partnership, there's gonna be aunique roles and purposes that
we play, and it's gonna bedifferent for each couple. So
understanding where we are in arelationship and it's changed
for us over the years. Right?
Early on when the kids wereyounger, you stayed at home and
you took care of the home, tookcare of the kids, and that was a
(22:57):
unique role in that season. Andwe celebrated that and honored
that. But now it's a little bitdifferent. Now the kids are
gone. We're empty nesters, andand you have a really important
leadership role that takes a lotof time.
And so I know that my role nowin the home is to do a little
bit more of the stuff around thehouse because it helps you out
in your role. Right?
Lisa (23:15):
That's right.
James (23:16):
And so I think embracing those roles, and they're not
always gender specific.
Lisa (23:19):
That's right.
James (23:20):
You know? So we need to know what to talk about and
discuss and embrace the theunique roles that we play in our
relationship.
Lisa (23:26):
Right. Back in those days when our kids were little, I
remember doing all the shoppingwith all 3 kids in tow. They
were asking for everything onthe shelf and
James (23:33):
Right.
Lisa (23:34):
And I'm coming home and I'm unloading them by myself and
all the things in meal planning.And you didn't have a lot to do
with that those days. And I didactually celebrate. I loved it.
But actually, 20 years afterthat, I'm like, I'm done.
I've done meal planning andshopping. When I started working
full time, you started helpingout with I'm going shopping.
Right. And then it kinda made aturn and I was like, hey, James,
(23:54):
I can start picking that backup. And you're like, no.
Yeah. You con continue to wannado it for financial reasons
because you actually I call youthe
James (24:03):
suburban attention to the prices.
Lisa (24:04):
Yes. You I call you the suburban hunter.
James (24:06):
That's right.
Lisa (24:07):
So you're, like, getting the prices and and so it's
something I never did pick backup, but I do feel like there are
different roles. One of thethings that I think is unique,
which is why each of these couldbe a podcast of their own is in
parenting. Sometimes there'splaces and spaces that you
think, oh, the dad needs to comein and bring down the well,
sometimes you're like, you havemore relationship with this
child.
James (24:27):
Mhmm.
Lisa (24:27):
You have more leverage with that individual than I do.
Go for it, Lisa. And so thenyou'll back me up all the way
home and but then there aretimes that you need to say stuff
and I need to back you up. Soeven in parenting, even in all
the all the different roles thatwe have, it's going who's the
best suited for that and thencelebrate that and stand behind
one another. Yeah.
James (24:47):
That's good. Okay. So let's go on to the the 4th
priority that we're working on,and that is the priority of
commitment. You can see how eachone of these are building.
Right?
Here's our here's our statementthat we're working around. In
our marriage, we honor ourcommitments to each other
consistently. Just as a teammeets deadlines, we fulfill the
promises we make to each other,whether in small daily acts or
(25:08):
larger commitments.
Lisa (25:09):
Mhmm.
James (25:09):
And I love this because this really goes to one of the
things that we teach a lot isthat we need to practice our
promise daily.
Lisa (25:15):
Right.
James (25:15):
Right?
Lisa (25:16):
Right.
James (25:16):
It's it's not just the vows that we made on day 1. But
every day, my commitment to youis I'm gonna practice my vows to
you and renew those every day.Right?
Lisa (25:25):
That's right. You know what? I'm smiling because I
actually said this this week,and I didn't have a chance to
tell you that I was telling ayoung bride. I was like, we
practice in sickness and inhealth for richer, for poorer,
till death do us part. Right.
Fatter or thinner.
James (25:39):
Hopefully, we're on the thinner side
Lisa (25:41):
this time. But do you know what? That our bodies change,
fatter or thinner.
James (25:44):
That's right.
Lisa (25:45):
Wrinkles or no wrinkles. Mhmm. Great complexion or not.
Right. It's like it's all ofthose things.
There's probably a lot in thatof going. We love each other.
Our commitment to each other isnot based on external things
that are happening around us.They're based on our commitment
to one another. Yeah.
James (25:59):
And it really does start with our daily promises together
and honoring our daily promises.I want you to find me faithful
that, hey, if I say I'm gonna dothis, then I'm gonna do it. If I
say that I'm gonna take care ofthis, I'm gonna take care of it.
And and that really buildstrust.
Lisa (26:14):
It does.
James (26:14):
Over time, it's like I know that you're if you say
you're gonna do it, I can takeyou at your word. Even today, on
the way in here, you asked me todo something, and I said yes.
And if I showed up and had nottaken care of that, brought you
the stuff that you needed, thenthat could have been a mistake.
But it's actually me being trueto the things I said I was gonna
do. And so those those smalldaily decisions actually
(26:36):
compound over time.
Lisa (26:37):
Right.
James (26:37):
It's that small daily choices, smart choices over
time, small daily promises thatwe keep that actually compound
and create trust over time.
Lisa (26:46):
You're it's so true because the reality is you
bringing that stuff in today forme, if you wouldn't have done
that Mhmm. Because you're soconsistent all the time, I would
have gone, oh goodness. Whathappened? Right.
James (26:56):
And you
Lisa (26:57):
would have gone, oh, I forgot it. I'll go back and get
it. But it it is true. All thepromises kept Yeah. Small and
large over time has built somuch trust that it makes way for
grace Yeah.
When it doesn't actually happen.It does matter. And we see this
with couples often. There are alot of those breaches in Mhmm.
Picking up the mail, taking outthe trash, mailing the bill,
whatever the thing is.
James (27:18):
Showing up on time.
Lisa (27:19):
Yeah. That actually erode trust. And so then they think
it's about the one big thingthat they did, but it actually
has been eroding all along andall the small things. And so
those are daily promises that wekeep. I think of even how we
communicate this.
Again, God graced us with thisearly on is a practice that even
when I talk about marriagetension, if I if I were to talk
to about with a female or even atension, if I if I were to talk
to about with a female or even aeven a counselor Mhmm. I would
(27:41):
always keep you in the bestlight. I would not destroy your
character Mhmm. Or speaknegative to that. But if you
heard, oh, Lisa was talking tome about x y z, you can actually
know with confidence, talking tome about x y z, you can actually
know with confidence that Iwould never say anything
disparaging about you.
Yeah. I thought that used to bea female thing Mhmm. That wives
because I've I've seen plenty ofwives get together and bash
(28:03):
their husbands, butunfortunately, time has shown me
that that isn't just
James (28:07):
It's just a people thing.
Lisa (28:08):
It's a people thing. Yeah. So I just think even that is a
daily promise
James (28:12):
That commitment. Yeah.
Lisa (28:13):
I'm gonna be I'm gonna honor you whether you're around
or not. Yeah. Even intentionsof, like, like, hey, our
communication broke down. Sisterfriend, what do you guys do in
your marriage? But and it'slike, oh, we have this tool.
It's always about pro marriage.
James (28:26):
Right.
Lisa (28:26):
It's always about how can I help build stronger? Well, I'm
sure James didn't mean that.Have you ever thought to
approach him this way? Mhmm. AndI'm like, oh, man.
I could probably do that. Yeah.So it's it's it's a growing
conversation, not tearing down.
James (28:38):
One of the things we talk about is that our actions have
consequences, and thoseconsequences create reality.
Lisa (28:44):
Mhmm.
James (28:45):
And so if if our actions or lack of action can also have
negative consequences. So if wesay we're gonna do something and
we don't do it, that causes anegative consequence. And it
creates this reality orperception that you don't keep
your word or that's what youalways do or you always act that
way. So if we can keep ourcommitments and creates those
positive consequences, then thereality is that I know I can
(29:06):
trust you. I think another placethat this shows up is in
finances.
One of the major tensions inmarriage is around finances and
the use of money. And so I thinkeven on the practical side of
keeping our commitments to ourbudget, keeping our commitments
to spending, how we use money,and, you know, all those things
kinda build into this idea ofcommitment.
Lisa (29:26):
That's right. I I was just thinking of the idea of hiding
what we spend Mhmm. Is actuallylying. Mhmm.
James (29:33):
Yeah. It's a lack of commitment Yeah. To one another.
Right?
Lisa (29:35):
I'm like, oh, I'm going to stash this cash and spend it the
way I want, or I'm gonna andspend. You know, that's it's
it's eroding trust.
James (29:44):
Right.
Lisa (29:44):
And, it actually is avoiding communication on what
our goals are and what whatwe're living into. And even
coming together and having thatcritique conversation of, like,
asking the hard questions andthen us both coming non
defensive. I will say this is atouchy area for us early on of,
like, you trying to categorizebudget items and me feeling
attacked by you wasn't veryproductive. You were literally
(30:05):
just going, where do I itemizethis expense? You know?
And I got all up in arms likeyou're judging me or something.
I think it's just really comingwith defenses down, but really
trying to honor our again, backto purpose and vision. Mhmm. We
have some financial goals we'rewanting to do. If I'm out Amazon
shopping, not out in my pajamas,Amazon shopping all day.
James (30:24):
I'm going out to the Amazon.
Lisa (30:26):
Yeah. No. So I just go I wanna honor those things, but I
often hear about people hiding.And I just wanna say that that's
actually eroding a commitment.Yeah.
Because it's it's it's line. I'mI hate to say it, but it's it's
what it is. It's line. Yeah.
James (30:40):
It it yeah. And so okay. So we're building this flywheel.
Good communication leads to astrong partnership, which leads
to fulfilling and alignment withour purpose, vision, and values
that creates commitment. Right?
And then the 5th priority thatwe want to talk about for a few
minutes here is growth. Here's astatement that we'd say about
growth is that in our marriage,we invest strategically in the
(31:02):
most important areas, time,energy and resources. We
prioritize quality timetogether, intentionally setting
aside moments to connect deeply,nurture our relationship, and
create lasting memories.
Lisa (31:13):
Love it. That is so good. And then you know what? I just
wanna give us a I wanted to saya plus on this, but I I mean, we
always have room for growth, butI'd say at least an a minus.
James (31:22):
On growth, I think we try to grow,
Lisa (31:23):
don't we? I think we really try to prioritize time,
energy, and even in our calendarand putting the big rocks in
first. I think of fun andadventure. Mhmm. And this is
like growth isn't just likegrowth.
Like, I'm building muscle andI'm working out. You know, I'm
sweating to death and eating rawvegetables all day long. It's
like it's it's a part of that,but it's the fun. It's the
adventure in life and growingand creating memories together.
James (31:43):
Yeah. Some of the things that we've done in investing
time, energy, and resources arejust the 2 of us, Trent. Even
when the kids were younger, wealways prioritize getting away
by ourselves for that dedicated,intense, intimate time together
for, you know, what started outas a couple days. Now it's a
little bit longer. But thatrequires intentionality.
It requires resource. Itrequires energy to put together,
(32:06):
but it also has allowed us tostay connected, to keep growing
our intimacy, to dream together.The fact that we're doing this
podcast came out of one of ourjust the 2 of us trips that we
were dreaming together. Like,hey. How what if we day.
One day. What if we Yeah.Started just talking about our
marriage and giving some toolsand tips? I think some of the
other things that we we can doto invest our our time and
(32:29):
resources is obviously datenights.
Lisa (32:31):
Mhmm.
James (32:31):
You know, or date breakfasts.
Lisa (32:33):
Yep. We've got plenty of those. Yeah. Alright. Also love
the idea of investing ourselvesin our marriage and retreats
Mhmm.
Community in different types ofgrowth communities that you can
be a part of. Reboot, which isan investment into your marriage
relationship to help and giveframework for where you're going
and where you wanna go.Oftentimes, you know, even with
a reboot, sometimes have peoplehave a challenge of investing
(32:56):
that kind of money. And I'm I'mthinking to myself, when have we
actually invested in ourmarriage in that way, in that
intentional way? Now it is greatto go on just the 2 of us trip,
you know, and set out in the sunand do nothing, which is very
valuable.
It's such a replenishing time,but there is a time for growth
in that classes, marriagecollective, you
James (33:15):
know. Small groups.
Lisa (33:16):
Small groups. Whatever it is. But it may be investing
time. It may be investingresource, but it's just so
important.
James (33:22):
Yeah. You're so right, Lisa. I heard someone time that
as parents we'll invest 1,000and 1,000 and 1,000 of dollars
in our kids in sports, gettingthem to the right coach on the
right team. But, you know, oncewe're adults, we don't invest in
our skills. And one of our mostimportant skills that we need to
invest in is our marriage.
Lisa (33:40):
Right. We want it to come for free. Free 99. Free 99.
James (33:44):
Yeah. And so we we don't really set aside that fact that,
like, hey. When you get married,you're not all that yet. Like,
you need to continue to grow anddevelop. And so the things like
we do with, like, the marriagereboots, which is that 2 day
intensive is the time thatmaybe, you know, just a reboot
that gets some new tools and newnew work around your marriage.
This year, we're starting TheCollective, which is our
marriage community, ongoingcoaching community. The other
(34:06):
thing I'm really excited about,we started dreaming about a
little bit, is that in fall2025, we're gonna host our 1st
artist spousine marriageretreat.
Lisa (34:14):
I know. I'm excited about it. We're dreaming about it and,
James (34:17):
it's be amazing.
Lisa (34:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like an infusion, those vitamin
infusions where they hook you upin your in right, intravenously.
James (34:23):
Right.
Lisa (34:24):
Just fuse give life and energy and vitamin and resource
to your body. That's what theretreat is gonna be. It's gonna
be a time just to infuse toolsMhmm. Time, refreshment, and,
I'm I'm excited about it.
James (34:36):
So there's time, energy, resources. I think it's also
supporting each other's growth,you know, champion each each
other to do some things, whetherthat's mentally, physically,
emotionally. You may need toencourage each other to do some
emotional work. I know thatthere are marriage together.
There's been seasons that we'vehad to work through some
emotional baggage from the pastand encouraging that and
(34:57):
resourcing that so that you youboth can stay healthy and grow.
Right?
Lisa (35:00):
That's right. And it it's a it's a resource. I mean, we've
spent good money on counselingfor myself and, actually, we
have spent good money incounseling for you because it's
your bike. You get on your bike,which has been that was supposed
to be funny, James. It was funnybecause you spent some money on
your bike.
I
James (35:14):
have spent a lot of money on my bike. That's But
Lisa (35:16):
it's your therapy. It really is. And I actually
appreciate and see that is a wayfrom you to decompress and
process much like I do withwords and language with a
therapist, but those are thingswe actually invest money in.
They're they have been criticalinto the health and life and the
emotional health of each other.So yeah.
James (35:34):
Yeah. I actually have a t shirt. It's one of my favorite t
shirts.
Lisa (35:36):
It
James (35:36):
says cycling is my therapist.
Lisa (35:38):
So That's right. But there's also professional
pursuits. You know, I wanted togo back to school, and we made
the financial commitment for meto get my bachelor's degree
later in adult learning. And andthen there's spiritual growth of
the places we wanna invest, andit may be a spiritual retreat.
We wanna fan the flame for allof that in each other's lives.
James (35:54):
Yeah. The big deal there is that we wanna encourage each
other to have a growth mindsetindividually and together. That
we haven't arrived. We're stilllearning. We're still growing.
We're discovering new thingsabout our communication,
discovering new things about howto deal with conflict because
those things always come around.And so we want to continue to
grow and keep that flywheel ofmomentum happening. It starts
(36:17):
with communication. That's thefoundation of a great
relationship. We wanna reallyconnect in our partnership
together that we're in thistogether.
We wanna know what our purposeis and really live out our
purpose, our vision, our values,and then really be committed to
each other. Mhmm. You know, inthose daily promises, making
every day count and living outour our our promises daily. And
(36:38):
then having that growth mindset,and that creates this flywheel I
Lisa (36:41):
love it.
James (36:41):
Of momentum in our marriage. So, you know, we're
still kinda processing it, butthat's kind of the raw form of
new teaching that we're gonna beworking on. You'll probably hear
us talk more about that in theepisodes that come, but that was
fun.
Lisa (36:53):
I loved it. I loved it. I think as we're gonna go back and
listen to it because I thinkthere's a lot of practical
application and tools in eachone of those that we can build
stronger communication,commitment, perfect, all of that
that will help, strengthenmarriages that all of you that
are listening Yeah. Aren'tespousing. We want it that's
what our purpose is.
James (37:11):
That's right. So, maybe You
Lisa (37:13):
know what? We're living out our purpose right now.
James (37:15):
We are. Look at this. Yeah. Look at us. And we're
growing because we're gettingbetter.
Lisa (37:19):
So That's right.
James (37:20):
Yeah. So I wanna encourage you maybe just to take
one of those priorities andmaybe focus on maybe have a
conversation with each otherthis week about, hey, how we
doing in this area and how canwe grow? How can we get better
and go from there?
Lisa (37:31):
I love it.
James (37:32):
Thanks for joining us today on the Artist Bousin
Podcast. We're really glad thatyou took the time listening to
us. We really appreciate youbeing a part of the community
and looking forward to be on thepodcast together again. Right?
Yeah.
Lisa (37:43):
So until then, bye bye. Hey, friends. Before you go,
don't forget to follow us onInstagram at Artis Bousin and
sign up for our newsletter inthe show notes to stay updated
on all things art espousing.We've got some exciting
announcements coming soon, andyou're not gonna wanna miss out.
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