January 7, 2025 • 18 mins
Boy- did we get it wrong sometimes!
Failure is the best teacher. So, Sam and Maia sat down in the MoneyPot Booth at Money20/20 in October and went over where they really missed the mark, and what it has taught them about what to look for in 2025.
This episode dives into the lessons learned in FinTech during 2024, exploring the unexpected challenges within the housing market, societal attitudes toward financial fraud, and the reality of AI in customer service.
• Reflecting on the surprising downturn of the housing market
• Discussing cultural shifts toward defrauding financial institutions
• Analyzing the repercussions of BaaS failures
• Critiquing the impact of AI on customer service experiences
• Considering the role of deepfakes in modern media and politics
• Addressing the stagnation of NFTs and missed opportunities for growth
Thank you for your support through the year! Connect with us on LinkedIn and Twitter to share your thoughts!
Hosts: Sam Maule & Maia Bittner
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Maule (00:01):
Hi Maia, don't get me sick or I will be so angry at
you.
Maia Bittner (00:04):
Hi Sam, Welcome to Money 2020.
Sam Maule (00:12):
Everybody welcome to another episode of Artificially
Intelligent, a podcast broughtto you and the team.
We are live at Money 2020.
Maia Bittner (00:19):
Special episode.
Sam Maule (00:20):
We're in the same room for the first time ever,
everybody.
Maia Bittner (00:23):
Ever Sharing the same airspace and surrounded by
all of our brilliant colleagueshere at the conference.
Sam Maule (00:29):
Yeah, it's actually been a good couple of days.
Have you enjoyed it?
Maia Bittner (00:32):
I've been having a blast yeah.
Sam Maule (00:33):
Yeah, it's exhausting , but it's good.
I'm Sam Mahl, everybody, andI'm joined by co-host Maia
Bittner.
It's great to have everyonehere.
Maia and I were tossing ideasaround about what we wanted to
talk about at Money 2020.
And we both agreed let's talkabout what we get wrong.
Maia Bittner (00:50):
Yeah, you know, we call ourselves the FinTech
interns, and that's because,right, we are so eager to learn,
we are so eager to get betterat FinTech, to figure out how
things work, and I think animportant part of learning and
growing is trying stuff out,realizing what you got wrong and
then iterating on that toimprove.
Sam Maule (01:11):
That's 100% right.
It's a fail-fast concept, butin our industry we really don't
like to use that terminology offail-fast.
I get it, but I mean I'mnotorious.
I have shared this story withMaia back.
I think it was 2011 or 2012.
I was in San Francisco at thisbar.
A friend of mine from WellsFargo said hey, I got this kid
you should talk to and meet.
(01:31):
He's leaving JPMC as an ideafor a company.
Sam, give him your feedback.
This young man sat down, walkedme through his business plan
and what he wanted to do totackle this and in my infinite
wisdom of all my yearsexperience in banking, I said,
yeah, it's not a good idea, goodluck.
And that was the founder ofPlaid.
Maia Bittner (01:47):
I was going to guess Patrick Collison from
Stripe.
Sam Maule (01:49):
That would have been even more embarrassing.
No, it was Zach Zach fromPlaid.
Zach now writes poetry and hasflowing hair and looks great and
excellent company.
Maia Bittner (02:00):
But you know, I mean, Sam, that's one of the
things I love about you.
Like I feel like you have to bequick to own your mistakes,
otherwise you just get stifledand you really never grow.
Sam Maule (02:10):
So let's narrow that in 2024, right, we're almost
done.
It's almost November.
So when you look back at theyear, let's run through it.
What are some of the things youabsolutely got dead wrong?
I'll give you one.
What's your number one?
Give it to me.
It's not my number one, butit's a good one.
It's the housing market, andthat is because, if folks don't
(02:31):
realize it consistently, whatwe're hearing is we're short.
About 1.5 million homes in theUS.
Affordable homes for the middleclass is the numbers that keep
getting thrown out there.
And also, I believe we're at a20 year low on homes being sold.
We're back to 1990s numberseverybody.
So it would be more than 20years, but we're consistently
hearing that and I got to behonest.
I'm kind of surprised by that.
I thought the housing marketgoing into this year was going
(02:52):
to rebound.
I thought rates would continueto drop.
I mean, my first home I boughtin 1990s for about 10% and I was
happy with that one.
I'm very much surprised atwhere we're at.
Maia Bittner (03:06):
Yeah, I mean there's low inventory, there's
low house sales Rates dropped atouch.
Sam Maule (03:12):
Yeah.
Maia Bittner (03:12):
It didn't seem to change anything.
Sam Maule (03:15):
I'm surprised by that right.
We're bouncing around six toseven, I think, nationally.
I was talking with somebodyearlier today about this and I'm
like, yeah, I kind of don't getit.
I mean, it's not like rates arehistorically that terrible, but
then you've got to think of Ithink we talked about this
before the average home price isabout $447,000.
My first house was $63,000.
My car is much worse than thatnow Vice car vice car.
Maia Bittner (03:38):
Well, I also think sellers are holding out because
for that high right I don'tknow about in your market but in
our market we're still downjust a touch, just a couple
percent from those high of Mayof 22 prices and so sellers are
holding out, buyers can't affordit and it's just resulted in
this deadlock that continues tolast.
I know I don't know what peopleare doing without any inventory
(03:59):
.
Sam Maule (03:59):
There you go.
That was my big one, or one ofmy big ones.
What's one of yours?
Maia Bittner (04:02):
Okay, my big one is it seems to me and it seems
to me that this is all of asudden, but maybe it has been
gradual it's okay to defraudfinancial institutions.
Just culturally, as a society,we've all decided that that's
okay.
I mean, the most prominentrecent there was the TikTok
Chase ATM glitch which I saw.
(04:25):
Chase is suing four of theircustomers as a result of that
ATM glitch.
But I think it's bigger thanthat.
It represents a broadercultural mind shift.
I think part of it is that themiddle class people are getting
pinched.
They feel like it's unfair.
I also blame some specificgovernment initiatives.
So I think the PPP loans I meanthat program really rewarded
(04:53):
people being opportunistic andjumping to take advantage of a
program.
And I think people have eitherthey made like profited off of
the PPP loans or they saw peoplethat did and feel like they
missed out.
And so now when they hear aboutthe next opportunity, they're
like this is my chance.
I've got to jump in to defraudsomeone in order to profit.
(05:15):
And I worry that it indicates,you know, that people don't feel
like there's opportunities tomake money in normal moral and I
worry that it indicates, youknow, that people don't feel
like there's opportunities tomake money in normal moral ways.
I think the government is sortof abandoning the idea of
providing us with services andgoing more towards money right.
I saw the same thing, thosefires in Hawaii.
The government was like sorrythat your house is burnt, here's
(05:37):
a bunch of cash right, insteadof that support.
But that's something that I amshocked by.
I think we generally live in apretty high-trust society and
I'm so bummed to see peoplejumping to kind of defraud their
banks, defraud other financialinstitutions, because it's
ultimately going to result inhigher costs for everyone.
Sam Maule (05:57):
Yeah, I mean, it is rather funny, it's this is that
phrase that everything's a remixright, so you go back to 2008.
And what we went through thereand you thought you know cool.
I mean, here we are under thiscrisis, so we're going to handle
it much better, and I would.
You know, it's a little bit ofdoubt when it comes to that, and
I also blame TikTok 100% blameTikTok for people going to the
stupid ATMs.
(06:18):
Remember that story we talkedabout?
Yeah, I think one person owessomething like $300,000 in Chase
.
It was broke today.
They're going after him.
Maia Bittner (06:26):
They're going after him, yeah.
Sam Maule (06:27):
As they should.
Maia Bittner (06:28):
I mean it's really weighted towards the one.
I think it's about $600,000 intotal losses that they're going
after them for.
Sam Maule (06:35):
All right, I'll give you my second one.
Man I bombed on this one Goinginto 2024, I thought Bass was
going to be just rocking it Basstotally.
Maia Bittner (06:51):
Oh my God, I got that wrong.
I mean, there's so manyprominent companies.
I haven't invested in any Basscompanies and I was like shit,
what a miss on my part.
Fintech investor never investedin any of them.
Clearly the future of how we'regoing to be bringing FinTech
companies to life.
Sam Maule (07:06):
Yeah, I had a George Costanza moment on that.
I bombed on that right.
I was looking at acquisitions,remember FIS, acquired Bond
right, and we're just seeingplay after play and these banks
coming in and remember on stageat maybe conferences like this,
for years it was banks.
Man, you're a smaller bank, youwant to get in play.
There's this thing called Basshere we go Bring your expertise.
(07:29):
Oh God, bring your expertise.
I'm not going to name the banks.
Should we name the banks?
I won't do that.
It'll be nice, but, oh my God,who can I throw under the bus
today?
What's this reconciliationthing, you know?
Is that a new concept?
When it comes to the players,oh boy, I mean I work.
I mean you're with Chime, I'mwith Move.
You got it.
(07:49):
Reconciliation's literallyeverything, everything.
How did we lose that plot?
Maia Bittner (08:01):
And honestly, if you really want to get a
regulator looking at you, youknow yeah.
Sam Maule (08:04):
I bombed.
That one was the collapse ofbass has had ripple effects.
I feel like collapse of basssounds like a band.
That's pretty good.
Maia Bittner (08:09):
Everyone I'm talking to here at the
conference is talking about howtheir banks are making them
renegotiate their contracts withthat.
Everyone is in the midst ofthis.
Increased oversight from thebanks, emphasized like through
the regulatory partner.
It has really wide rangingimpacts.
Sam Maule (08:26):
Okay, what's another one of yours?
Maia Bittner (08:28):
Okay, my number two is this is the human x
machine conference.
I was like everyone's talkingabout AI.
It's unknown what impactthat'll have, but the obvious
customer service.
I was like it's going to bebetter customer service
everywhere.
Sam, I personally I am notgetting better customer service.
(08:49):
I thought AI and I thoughtthere's so many ways you could
do it right.
You could use AI to automateall of your low-level contacts
and then save your budget forall of the thorny issues and
give people better customersupport, faster hold times, all
the good stuff.
I feel like it's gotten worse.
I feel like people haveimplemented chatbots without it.
I feel like it's worse thanbefore we had AI and I'm so
(09:12):
bummed because I feel like thisshould just be a bank shot, easy
sell.
Sam Maule (09:16):
I mean literally, if you would have told me that you
know the government was going tocome in and say, all right, it
was easy to sign up, you need aone click to, you know, get out.
And I thought, okay, that'skind of overreach, are you
kidding me?
And now I'm like, oh my God,screw them all.
Maia Bittner (09:31):
I mean are you kidding me?
Sam Maule (09:33):
Totally.
You know what I get.
Here's my annoying one.
You unsubscribe from whateveremail, right to clean out your
email, and they keep coming inlike mother.
I swear to God, I haveunsubscribed from this about a
million times, just like yousaid right, trying to go through
and clean up.
Maia Bittner (09:49):
I just started getting emails from Facebook.
I haven't gotten any emailsfrom Facebook in like 20 years.
I don't know where I'm like.
Where did these things comefrom?
Like I'm sure I'm unsubscribing.
Sam Maule (10:00):
It's an AI bot, everybody.
That's where it's coming from.
Maia Bittner (10:02):
Zombies it's impossible to kill.
Sam Maule (10:04):
All right, I'll give you my next one and I, man, I
got this one wrong and I'm still.
I have a theory on why Ithought, going into this
election cycle, AI deep fakeswere going to be have massive
influence on the election oneither side.
Maia Bittner (10:19):
I took it as a given.
I was like we're going to beoverwhelmed by them.
Sam Maule (10:21):
I took it as a given and wrong.
I think we just have zero trust.
I think literally everybody hasadopted Google's approach.
If you start at zero trust,everybody's lying and we're
going to go from there.
I'm actually shocked that therehas, and the deep fakes we've
seen have been horrific Rememberthe flooding in North Carolina
and the little girl and the dog.
(10:42):
You're like sorry, and DonaldTrump is not wading through
whatever and Kamala is not inthat uniform, it's so.
Maia Bittner (10:49):
I think it's just so stupid of a we had a week to
go everybody, thank God.
Some of the things that heactually does are beyond what I
could imagine or beyond parody,so I think that's why we don't
even need deep fakes.
I agree with you.
Sam Maule (11:04):
You know how many AI companies that are out there on
that side are like sodisappointed because they really
thought and then on the flipside and this is rather sad, in
Florida where I live, a15-year-old boy killed himself
and he had an AI girlfriend chatgirlfriend, I saw this
character AI.
Yeah, after Game of Thrones, andhe literally had this
conversation with the AI andsaid you know, as he ended the
(11:26):
conversation, he went and saidI'm going to be with you and
killed himself and I don't knowhow much.
I'm not a lawyer, I don't knowthe validity on this and
actually where we were at withthat, but the idea that in 2024,
we're already there with thismass number of mainly young men
with chatbot girlfriends whenpeople told me that I was like,
okay, stupid, it's never goingto happen.
Maia Bittner (11:53):
And it's an epidemic.
Well, and I think this is kindof a reflection of AI in general
, where I had a friend who waslike everyone's talking about AI
but I've never seen AI dosomething like really awesome or
really incredible.
I think, well, we're alsowaiting, but I think that's the
wrong way.
It's like AI is not doingthings that are really
incredible.
They are not publishing thedeep fake videos, publishing the
(12:13):
deepfake videos.
Ai is like if you had a hordeof free interns, or if every
lonely teenager in America had agirlfriend right, it's things
like that.
Sam Maule (12:17):
It's what we used to sell RPA for the boring ass crap
that we do every day.
The mundane.
It's going to be fantastic attaking that out.
Maia Bittner (12:24):
That's what AI is going to have impact on.
Sam Maule (12:26):
Yeah, back when I was a consultant back in the you
know 2010s and all that RPA thatwas my go-to.
I could sell RPA like it wasgoing out of style and now we
just have relabeled it as AITotally and it's incredible.
I don't know how it's working.
You know, no offense toeverybody, but yeah, I would
100% agree with you.
Maia Bittner (12:43):
Okay, my next.
Next one.
I thought NFTs would be back.
Sam Maule (12:48):
See, I'm amazed by that, really, I was never a
believer.
Maia Bittner (12:50):
So were you in any of the discords or anything?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were Ifloat around.
I mean, I'm there, I know.
I just felt like NFTs hadsomething special, the momentum
I thought they'd be coming back.
Sam Maule (13:05):
So just the rage out of COVID and where we're at and
how it just skyrocketed.
Do you think?
Maia Bittner (13:10):
there would be more like tangible use cases.
Yeah, and they got sort of liketrapped in.
You know all of crypto getstrapped in the pyramid scheme
Kind of right.
So that's rough.
I thought we would have all ofthe blowout from that and then
there'd be cool use cases andthat.
You know, I mean I want digitalbaseball cards, I want like all
(13:31):
of that, and I really believethat concert ticket experience.
Sam Maule (13:34):
I've went to the Taylor Swift show and I've got
that limited exclusive things.
Maia Bittner (13:38):
I think that is so cool.
We still do not have an answerfor what is a digital experience
for something that's exclusive.
I thought NFTs were the answerand I thought they'd be back.
Sam Maule (13:46):
Um, I have never been a believer in metaverse.
Somebody still needs toconvince me, I'm sorry,
everybody.
There's people out there likeGod just gave me the finger.
Seriously, where do you work at?
But still, I'm just not a.
I don't know.
I'm not there.
And I'm also somebody, by theway.
(14:06):
Let's clarify this.
We've talked about it.
I live online.
I'm also somebody, by the way.
Let's clarify this.
We've talked about it.
I live online.
I'm a gamer.
I'm an Xbox player.
Yeah, I mean, I'm there and youknow what.
Let's go back to AI for onesecond, because I've got to give
you a shout out.
I a former Googler.
I never used Google.
You have me so hooked onperplexity.
Maia Bittner (14:23):
AI Perplexity.
It's the answer.
It's the answer Anthropic.
You guys nailed that that iseasily one of the best tools
I've ever used.
I use it for everything, thefirst as soon as I have a
question.
Sam Maule (14:33):
If they're here, I want a freaking hoodie or
something, because I swear toGod.
Maia Bittner (14:36):
How do we get the perplexities swag?
Sam Maule (14:38):
Everything I need to walk around.
Maia Bittner (14:39):
I send everything to Perplexity.
Sam Maule (14:41):
So I'm going to retract what I said about AI.
You suck at customer service.
Let's get better On attribution.
Oh my God, perplexity.
I love you so much.
Maia Bittner (14:54):
I'm curious, sam, do you watch cable news?
Sam Maule (14:58):
Not this year, because it's painful.
I'm in a demographic everybodywhere I should be watching cable
news.
I just can't, it hurts.
Maia Bittner (15:07):
Aren't you?
Are you in a swing state sortof I?
Sam Maule (15:09):
live in Florida.
That's a swing state.
Right, we're a swinger state,that's true.
We're a weird state, very weirdstate.
Yeah, we boarded Georgia.
So, yes, so, trust me, cablenews is a massive part of life.
I have no idea where you'regoing with this.
Maia Bittner (15:25):
Oh, I was thinking about the AI deepfake videos,
Well, and the things I see oncable news.
I don't actually watch a lot ofcable news.
I was watching in the airportlounge on the way here.
Sam Maule (15:34):
Yeah, it feels to me to be more harmful to the
American psyche than… Cable.
News is… I'm going to becareful.
Yes, we don't even need AI.
As somebody with four kids.
I mean you have very young kids.
I have kids who are Grandkids,are young, but you know.
Maia Bittner (15:53):
Kids are my age.
I got it.
Sam Maule (15:55):
The effect, and I'll go on a rant here, but the
effect social media has had onmy kids' generation, and now I
look at my granddaughter andit's going to be on her and the
responsibilities we have asparents and as a society to
address the epidemic ofloneliness.
We already talked about the AIchatbot and the young man.
I mean, there's case after caseafter case of this where we
(16:16):
have done an absolute shitty job.
So, for example, age-gatingright, facebook, instagram, you
take your pick, or oh, it can'thappen.
And then we were actually goingto put laws into place and
suddenly they solved it becausethey are smart people and they
could solve it.
So there's a gambling.
Gambling is now legaleverywhere everybody.
And, by the way, the rates ofdepression and suicide and
(16:38):
everything else that built ontop of it god, this is the most
depressing episode in the mostvibrant room.
We got to do better.
End on something positivebecause we got to wrap up.
Maia Bittner (16:47):
Give me something good.
I know.
Well, I'm glad you bring up Imean, it's taking some heat away
from AI.
You're like I can't believewe've had a suicide already in
2020 for AI.
But I don't think it's AI right, it's the loneliness epidemic.
Sam Maule (16:59):
It's the lack of third places.
It's our faces on our screens.
We've got to get back toengaging with people.
Maia Bittner (17:05):
It's these other problems.
So, Sam, I hope that we can dothis episode next year at Money
2020 and talk about everythingthat we got wrong over the year
prior.
Sam Maule (17:17):
That would be fantastic.
Everybody, we'd love yourfeedback.
Sam Hall on LinkedIn greatplace to do it.
Maia, best place to connectwith you.
Maia Bittner (17:25):
Twitter, always I have open DMs.
Sam Maule (17:27):
It's the best Twitter account.
You want to see a mom bringingup a young kid go on Twitter.
It's hilarious Everybody.
Thank you so much for listening, participating.
It's been a fun year.
Money 2020.
Outstanding job at thisconference and doing this little
money pot booth.
We love it.
Everybody.
Thank you for listening andsupporting us through this.
Thanks Dead on time.
(17:48):
Gotta love it.
Perplexity is my f.
Hi Maia, don't get me sick or I will be so angry at
you.
Maia Bittner (00:04):
Hi Sam, Welcome to Money 2020.
Sam Maule (00:12):
Everybody welcome to another episode of Artificially
Intelligent, a podcast broughtto you and the team.
We are live at Money 2020.
Maia Bittner (00:19):
Special episode.
Sam Maule (00:20):
We're in the same room for the first time ever,
everybody.
Maia Bittner (00:23):
Ever Sharing the same airspace and surrounded by
all of our brilliant colleagueshere at the conference.
Sam Maule (00:29):
Yeah, it's actually been a good couple of days.
Have you enjoyed it?
Maia Bittner (00:32):
I've been having a blast yeah.
Sam Maule (00:33):
Yeah, it's exhausting , but it's good.
I'm Sam Mahl, everybody, andI'm joined by co-host Maia
Bittner.
It's great to have everyonehere.
Maia and I were tossing ideasaround about what we wanted to
talk about at Money 2020.
And we both agreed let's talkabout what we get wrong.
Maia Bittner (00:50):
Yeah, you know, we call ourselves the FinTech
interns, and that's because,right, we are so eager to learn,
we are so eager to get betterat FinTech, to figure out how
things work, and I think animportant part of learning and
growing is trying stuff out,realizing what you got wrong and
then iterating on that toimprove.
Sam Maule (01:11):
That's 100% right.
It's a fail-fast concept, butin our industry we really don't
like to use that terminology offail-fast.
I get it, but I mean I'mnotorious.
I have shared this story withMaia back.
I think it was 2011 or 2012.
I was in San Francisco at thisbar.
A friend of mine from WellsFargo said hey, I got this kid
you should talk to and meet.
(01:31):
He's leaving JPMC as an ideafor a company.
Sam, give him your feedback.
This young man sat down, walkedme through his business plan
and what he wanted to do totackle this and in my infinite
wisdom of all my yearsexperience in banking, I said,
yeah, it's not a good idea, goodluck.
And that was the founder ofPlaid.
Maia Bittner (01:47):
I was going to guess Patrick Collison from
Stripe.
Sam Maule (01:49):
That would have been even more embarrassing.
No, it was Zach Zach fromPlaid.
Zach now writes poetry and hasflowing hair and looks great and
excellent company.
Maia Bittner (02:00):
But you know, I mean, Sam, that's one of the
things I love about you.
Like I feel like you have to bequick to own your mistakes,
otherwise you just get stifledand you really never grow.
Sam Maule (02:10):
So let's narrow that in 2024, right, we're almost
done.
It's almost November.
So when you look back at theyear, let's run through it.
What are some of the things youabsolutely got dead wrong?
I'll give you one.
What's your number one?
Give it to me.
It's not my number one, butit's a good one.
It's the housing market, andthat is because, if folks don't
(02:31):
realize it consistently, whatwe're hearing is we're short.
About 1.5 million homes in theUS.
Affordable homes for the middleclass is the numbers that keep
getting thrown out there.
And also, I believe we're at a20 year low on homes being sold.
We're back to 1990s numberseverybody.
So it would be more than 20years, but we're consistently
hearing that and I got to behonest.
I'm kind of surprised by that.
I thought the housing marketgoing into this year was going
(02:52):
to rebound.
I thought rates would continueto drop.
I mean, my first home I boughtin 1990s for about 10% and I was
happy with that one.
I'm very much surprised atwhere we're at.
Maia Bittner (03:06):
Yeah, I mean there's low inventory, there's
low house sales Rates dropped atouch.
Sam Maule (03:12):
Yeah.
Maia Bittner (03:12):
It didn't seem to change anything.
Sam Maule (03:15):
I'm surprised by that right.
We're bouncing around six toseven, I think, nationally.
I was talking with somebodyearlier today about this and I'm
like, yeah, I kind of don't getit.
I mean, it's not like rates arehistorically that terrible, but
then you've got to think of Ithink we talked about this
before the average home price isabout $447,000.
My first house was $63,000.
My car is much worse than thatnow Vice car vice car.
Maia Bittner (03:38):
Well, I also think sellers are holding out because
for that high right I don'tknow about in your market but in
our market we're still downjust a touch, just a couple
percent from those high of Mayof 22 prices and so sellers are
holding out, buyers can't affordit and it's just resulted in
this deadlock that continues tolast.
I know I don't know what peopleare doing without any inventory
(03:59):
.
Sam Maule (03:59):
There you go.
That was my big one, or one ofmy big ones.
What's one of yours?
Maia Bittner (04:02):
Okay, my big one is it seems to me and it seems
to me that this is all of asudden, but maybe it has been
gradual it's okay to defraudfinancial institutions.
Just culturally, as a society,we've all decided that that's
okay.
I mean, the most prominentrecent there was the TikTok
Chase ATM glitch which I saw.
(04:25):
Chase is suing four of theircustomers as a result of that
ATM glitch.
But I think it's bigger thanthat.
It represents a broadercultural mind shift.
I think part of it is that themiddle class people are getting
pinched.
They feel like it's unfair.
I also blame some specificgovernment initiatives.
So I think the PPP loans I meanthat program really rewarded
(04:53):
people being opportunistic andjumping to take advantage of a
program.
And I think people have eitherthey made like profited off of
the PPP loans or they saw peoplethat did and feel like they
missed out.
And so now when they hear aboutthe next opportunity, they're
like this is my chance.
I've got to jump in to defraudsomeone in order to profit.
(05:15):
And I worry that it indicates,you know, that people don't feel
like there's opportunities tomake money in normal moral and I
worry that it indicates, youknow, that people don't feel
like there's opportunities tomake money in normal moral ways.
I think the government is sortof abandoning the idea of
providing us with services andgoing more towards money right.
I saw the same thing, thosefires in Hawaii.
The government was like sorrythat your house is burnt, here's
(05:37):
a bunch of cash right, insteadof that support.
But that's something that I amshocked by.
I think we generally live in apretty high-trust society and
I'm so bummed to see peoplejumping to kind of defraud their
banks, defraud other financialinstitutions, because it's
ultimately going to result inhigher costs for everyone.
Sam Maule (05:57):
Yeah, I mean, it is rather funny, it's this is that
phrase that everything's a remixright, so you go back to 2008.
And what we went through thereand you thought you know cool.
I mean, here we are under thiscrisis, so we're going to handle
it much better, and I would.
You know, it's a little bit ofdoubt when it comes to that, and
I also blame TikTok 100% blameTikTok for people going to the
stupid ATMs.
(06:18):
Remember that story we talkedabout?
Yeah, I think one person owessomething like $300,000 in Chase
.
It was broke today.
They're going after him.
Maia Bittner (06:26):
They're going after him, yeah.
Sam Maule (06:27):
As they should.
Maia Bittner (06:28):
I mean it's really weighted towards the one.
I think it's about $600,000 intotal losses that they're going
after them for.
Sam Maule (06:35):
All right, I'll give you my second one.
Man I bombed on this one Goinginto 2024, I thought Bass was
going to be just rocking it Basstotally.
Maia Bittner (06:51):
Oh my God, I got that wrong.
I mean, there's so manyprominent companies.
I haven't invested in any Basscompanies and I was like shit,
what a miss on my part.
Fintech investor never investedin any of them.
Clearly the future of how we'regoing to be bringing FinTech
companies to life.
Sam Maule (07:06):
Yeah, I had a George Costanza moment on that.
I bombed on that right.
I was looking at acquisitions,remember FIS, acquired Bond
right, and we're just seeingplay after play and these banks
coming in and remember on stageat maybe conferences like this,
for years it was banks.
Man, you're a smaller bank, youwant to get in play.
There's this thing called Basshere we go Bring your expertise.
(07:29):
Oh God, bring your expertise.
I'm not going to name the banks.
Should we name the banks?
I won't do that.
It'll be nice, but, oh my God,who can I throw under the bus
today?
What's this reconciliationthing, you know?
Is that a new concept?
When it comes to the players,oh boy, I mean I work.
I mean you're with Chime, I'mwith Move.
You got it.
(07:49):
Reconciliation's literallyeverything, everything.
How did we lose that plot?
Maia Bittner (08:01):
And honestly, if you really want to get a
regulator looking at you, youknow yeah.
Sam Maule (08:04):
I bombed.
That one was the collapse ofbass has had ripple effects.
I feel like collapse of basssounds like a band.
That's pretty good.
Maia Bittner (08:09):
Everyone I'm talking to here at the
conference is talking about howtheir banks are making them
renegotiate their contracts withthat.
Everyone is in the midst ofthis.
Increased oversight from thebanks, emphasized like through
the regulatory partner.
It has really wide rangingimpacts.
Sam Maule (08:26):
Okay, what's another one of yours?
Maia Bittner (08:28):
Okay, my number two is this is the human x
machine conference.
I was like everyone's talkingabout AI.
It's unknown what impactthat'll have, but the obvious
customer service.
I was like it's going to bebetter customer service
everywhere.
Sam, I personally I am notgetting better customer service.
(08:49):
I thought AI and I thoughtthere's so many ways you could
do it right.
You could use AI to automateall of your low-level contacts
and then save your budget forall of the thorny issues and
give people better customersupport, faster hold times, all
the good stuff.
I feel like it's gotten worse.
I feel like people haveimplemented chatbots without it.
I feel like it's worse thanbefore we had AI and I'm so
(09:12):
bummed because I feel like thisshould just be a bank shot, easy
sell.
Sam Maule (09:16):
I mean literally, if you would have told me that you
know the government was going tocome in and say, all right, it
was easy to sign up, you need aone click to, you know, get out.
And I thought, okay, that'skind of overreach, are you
kidding me?
And now I'm like, oh my God,screw them all.
Maia Bittner (09:31):
I mean are you kidding me?
Sam Maule (09:33):
Totally.
You know what I get.
Here's my annoying one.
You unsubscribe from whateveremail, right to clean out your
email, and they keep coming inlike mother.
I swear to God, I haveunsubscribed from this about a
million times, just like yousaid right, trying to go through
and clean up.
Maia Bittner (09:49):
I just started getting emails from Facebook.
I haven't gotten any emailsfrom Facebook in like 20 years.
I don't know where I'm like.
Where did these things comefrom?
Like I'm sure I'm unsubscribing.
Sam Maule (10:00):
It's an AI bot, everybody.
That's where it's coming from.
Maia Bittner (10:02):
Zombies it's impossible to kill.
Sam Maule (10:04):
All right, I'll give you my next one and I, man, I
got this one wrong and I'm still.
I have a theory on why Ithought, going into this
election cycle, AI deep fakeswere going to be have massive
influence on the election oneither side.
Maia Bittner (10:19):
I took it as a given.
I was like we're going to beoverwhelmed by them.
Sam Maule (10:21):
I took it as a given and wrong.
I think we just have zero trust.
I think literally everybody hasadopted Google's approach.
If you start at zero trust,everybody's lying and we're
going to go from there.
I'm actually shocked that therehas, and the deep fakes we've
seen have been horrific Rememberthe flooding in North Carolina
and the little girl and the dog.
(10:42):
You're like sorry, and DonaldTrump is not wading through
whatever and Kamala is not inthat uniform, it's so.
Maia Bittner (10:49):
I think it's just so stupid of a we had a week to
go everybody, thank God.
Some of the things that heactually does are beyond what I
could imagine or beyond parody,so I think that's why we don't
even need deep fakes.
I agree with you.
Sam Maule (11:04):
You know how many AI companies that are out there on
that side are like sodisappointed because they really
thought and then on the flipside and this is rather sad, in
Florida where I live, a15-year-old boy killed himself
and he had an AI girlfriend chatgirlfriend, I saw this
character AI.
Yeah, after Game of Thrones, andhe literally had this
conversation with the AI andsaid you know, as he ended the
(11:26):
conversation, he went and saidI'm going to be with you and
killed himself and I don't knowhow much.
I'm not a lawyer, I don't knowthe validity on this and
actually where we were at withthat, but the idea that in 2024,
we're already there with thismass number of mainly young men
with chatbot girlfriends whenpeople told me that I was like,
okay, stupid, it's never goingto happen.
Maia Bittner (11:53):
And it's an epidemic.
Well, and I think this is kindof a reflection of AI in general
, where I had a friend who waslike everyone's talking about AI
but I've never seen AI dosomething like really awesome or
really incredible.
I think, well, we're alsowaiting, but I think that's the
wrong way.
It's like AI is not doingthings that are really
incredible.
They are not publishing thedeep fake videos, publishing the
(12:13):
deepfake videos.
Ai is like if you had a hordeof free interns, or if every
lonely teenager in America had agirlfriend right, it's things
like that.
Sam Maule (12:17):
It's what we used to sell RPA for the boring ass crap
that we do every day.
The mundane.
It's going to be fantastic attaking that out.
Maia Bittner (12:24):
That's what AI is going to have impact on.
Sam Maule (12:26):
Yeah, back when I was a consultant back in the you
know 2010s and all that RPA thatwas my go-to.
I could sell RPA like it wasgoing out of style and now we
just have relabeled it as AITotally and it's incredible.
I don't know how it's working.
You know, no offense toeverybody, but yeah, I would
100% agree with you.
Maia Bittner (12:43):
Okay, my next.
Next one.
I thought NFTs would be back.
Sam Maule (12:48):
See, I'm amazed by that, really, I was never a
believer.
Maia Bittner (12:50):
So were you in any of the discords or anything?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were Ifloat around.
I mean, I'm there, I know.
I just felt like NFTs hadsomething special, the momentum
I thought they'd be coming back.
Sam Maule (13:05):
So just the rage out of COVID and where we're at and
how it just skyrocketed.
Do you think?
Maia Bittner (13:10):
there would be more like tangible use cases.
Yeah, and they got sort of liketrapped in.
You know all of crypto getstrapped in the pyramid scheme
Kind of right.
So that's rough.
I thought we would have all ofthe blowout from that and then
there'd be cool use cases andthat.
You know, I mean I want digitalbaseball cards, I want like all
(13:31):
of that, and I really believethat concert ticket experience.
Sam Maule (13:34):
I've went to the Taylor Swift show and I've got
that limited exclusive things.
Maia Bittner (13:38):
I think that is so cool.
We still do not have an answerfor what is a digital experience
for something that's exclusive.
I thought NFTs were the answerand I thought they'd be back.
Sam Maule (13:46):
Um, I have never been a believer in metaverse.
Somebody still needs toconvince me, I'm sorry,
everybody.
There's people out there likeGod just gave me the finger.
Seriously, where do you work at?
But still, I'm just not a.
I don't know.
I'm not there.
And I'm also somebody, by theway.
(14:06):
Let's clarify this.
We've talked about it.
I live online.
I'm also somebody, by the way.
Let's clarify this.
We've talked about it.
I live online.
I'm a gamer.
I'm an Xbox player.
Yeah, I mean, I'm there and youknow what.
Let's go back to AI for onesecond, because I've got to give
you a shout out.
I a former Googler.
I never used Google.
You have me so hooked onperplexity.
Maia Bittner (14:23):
AI Perplexity.
It's the answer.
It's the answer Anthropic.
You guys nailed that that iseasily one of the best tools
I've ever used.
I use it for everything, thefirst as soon as I have a
question.
Sam Maule (14:33):
If they're here, I want a freaking hoodie or
something, because I swear toGod.
Maia Bittner (14:36):
How do we get the perplexities swag?
Sam Maule (14:38):
Everything I need to walk around.
Maia Bittner (14:39):
I send everything to Perplexity.
Sam Maule (14:41):
So I'm going to retract what I said about AI.
You suck at customer service.
Let's get better On attribution.
Oh my God, perplexity.
I love you so much.
Maia Bittner (14:54):
I'm curious, sam, do you watch cable news?
Sam Maule (14:58):
Not this year, because it's painful.
I'm in a demographic everybodywhere I should be watching cable
news.
I just can't, it hurts.
Maia Bittner (15:07):
Aren't you?
Are you in a swing state sortof I?
Sam Maule (15:09):
live in Florida.
That's a swing state.
Right, we're a swinger state,that's true.
We're a weird state, very weirdstate.
Yeah, we boarded Georgia.
So, yes, so, trust me, cablenews is a massive part of life.
I have no idea where you'regoing with this.
Maia Bittner (15:25):
Oh, I was thinking about the AI deepfake videos,
Well, and the things I see oncable news.
I don't actually watch a lot ofcable news.
I was watching in the airportlounge on the way here.
Sam Maule (15:34):
Yeah, it feels to me to be more harmful to the
American psyche than… Cable.
News is… I'm going to becareful.
Yes, we don't even need AI.
As somebody with four kids.
I mean you have very young kids.
I have kids who are Grandkids,are young, but you know.
Maia Bittner (15:53):
Kids are my age.
I got it.
Sam Maule (15:55):
The effect, and I'll go on a rant here, but the
effect social media has had onmy kids' generation, and now I
look at my granddaughter andit's going to be on her and the
responsibilities we have asparents and as a society to
address the epidemic ofloneliness.
We already talked about the AIchatbot and the young man.
I mean, there's case after caseafter case of this where we
(16:16):
have done an absolute shitty job.
So, for example, age-gatingright, facebook, instagram, you
take your pick, or oh, it can'thappen.
And then we were actually goingto put laws into place and
suddenly they solved it becausethey are smart people and they
could solve it.
So there's a gambling.
Gambling is now legaleverywhere everybody.
And, by the way, the rates ofdepression and suicide and
(16:38):
everything else that built ontop of it god, this is the most
depressing episode in the mostvibrant room.
We got to do better.
End on something positivebecause we got to wrap up.
Maia Bittner (16:47):
Give me something good.
I know.
Well, I'm glad you bring up Imean, it's taking some heat away
from AI.
You're like I can't believewe've had a suicide already in
2020 for AI.
But I don't think it's AI right, it's the loneliness epidemic.
Sam Maule (16:59):
It's the lack of third places.
It's our faces on our screens.
We've got to get back toengaging with people.
Maia Bittner (17:05):
It's these other problems.
So, Sam, I hope that we can dothis episode next year at Money
2020 and talk about everythingthat we got wrong over the year
prior.
Sam Maule (17:17):
That would be fantastic.
Everybody, we'd love yourfeedback.
Sam Hall on LinkedIn greatplace to do it.
Maia, best place to connectwith you.
Maia Bittner (17:25):
Twitter, always I have open DMs.
Sam Maule (17:27):
It's the best Twitter account.
You want to see a mom bringingup a young kid go on Twitter.
It's hilarious Everybody.
Thank you so much for listening, participating.
It's been a fun year.
Money 2020.
Outstanding job at thisconference and doing this little
money pot booth.
We love it.
Everybody.
Thank you for listening andsupporting us through this.
Thanks Dead on time.
(17:48):
Gotta love it.
Perplexity is my f.
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