Floyd Favel, is a culture worker from the Poundmaker Cree Nation, whose expertise in the arts is as profound as the heritage he carries. Floyd takes us on a journey from the rich oral traditions of his childhood to his expansive work as an artist, and how these experiences shaped his mission to weave indigenous perspectives into the very fabric of the arts.
This episode is a profound exploration of respect, remembrance, and the enduring power of cultural legacies in shaping our world, and the indigenous voices being squelched by settler traditions in the arts. Tawaw.
Links related to this episode:
https://www.saskartsalliance.ca/facts/floyd-favel-starr/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Grotowski
https://indigenoustourism.ca/events/poundmaker-indigenous-performance-festival/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1911668649074195/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/pipe-bag-returns-to-community-1.6964869
https://www.saskculture.ca/events/1979
“Ashes to Embers” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQvlqBCmHs
Thank you to SaskCulture, SKArts, and Sask Lotteries for your generous support.
Visit our website: https://www.saskartsalliance.ca
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STARTING SEASON 2, THEME MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Patrick Moon Bird: https://linktr.ee/PatrickMoonBird
https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMoonBirdMusic/
Kevin Power: http://www.kevinpower.net/ The Saskscapes Podcast: https://saskscapes.buzzsprout.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Your collective voice for the arts across
Saskatchewan.
This is Arts Everywhere.
The Saskatchewan Arts Alliancepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So whether or not you believe in manifesting your
dreams, it's up to you.
But one thing I believe is trueOpportunity steps up to meet
you in the moment when you areready.
Whether you've seized thatmoment is entirely up to you.
This episode's guest is FloydFavel, and I dare say that, as
(00:47):
each opportunity has presenteditself in his life, he has
embraced it.
Floyd is from Poundmaker CreeNation, near Cutknife,
Saskatchewan.
So how does Floyd find himselfstudying and eventually teaching
in Toronto, in Denmark, inItaly, in Poland, in Sweden, in
Colombia, and there's more tocome.
(01:09):
It's a long way fromPoundmaker Cree Nation.
Well, he did so because he metopportunity head on.
Now, floyd's artistic talentsare numerous, but he humbly
describes himself as a cultureworker, and this is his story.
It's the story of an artist andit's a story of inclusivity.
(01:31):
And Floyd's words might makeyou feel uncomfortable at times,
but the truth he speaks needsto be said and it needs to be
heard.
And they are all the morepowerful because they come from
Floyd's experience.
Floyd speaks his truth, and histruth speaks of a desire for
(01:54):
everyone in the arts to feelincluded.
In Cree, floyd simply saysTawaw, come in, you are welcome
here, there is room.
So Tawaw.
This is Floyd Fable's story.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, thanks for taking the time to chat today,
floyd.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Oh, my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, it's really nice, it's been a while.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yes, yes, a year at least.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's yeah, and I wasthinking back the last time we
were chatting and maybe I wasgoing to be able to come out and
do some work with you again.
But it's been a while now thatwe've known each other, maybe
three years or something likethat, In the middle of the
pandemic, I think it was.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Pandemic, when our festival on Poundmaker, when we
went virtual.
Yeah, yeah, that's when Ireached out.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, it was great.
So maybe just for to get goinghere, maybe if you just want to
take a couple of minutes andintroduce yourself and talk
about who you are and what youdo.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Okay, my name is Floyd Fable.
I'm from the Poundmaker IndianReserve here in Saskatchewan.
I work in a theater, videowriting researcher, playwright,
(03:31):
professor and museum curator,but in short, I always just say
a culture worker, yeah, andbased in my community of
Poundmaker and working fromthere, and so that's a bit about
me.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, one of the things I was interested to ask
you about is how did you, howdid you get started in culture,
in the arts, how did that?
How did that start for you?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Through as a boy, listening to the oral stories of
my parents, neighbors, familymembers, just through their
daily conversations.
They would mention historyevents and because I understood
(04:28):
Kriya, I grew up speaking Kriya.
It always intrigued me likedifferent things that happened.
So my imagination was alreadystirred back in the day just
from listening, from just beingaround.
I'd listened to what they saidand you know, like oral history,
when you learn oral history asa boy, they don't sit you down
(04:49):
and teach you, you just pick itup.
And that's what I did.
I picked it up and so by thetime I was a teenager, I had a
good understanding of the basicunderstanding of family and
community history.
And that was the first, thatwas the beginning.
And then thereafter, books, thelove of reading, public
(05:15):
libraries, school libraries.
That's what brought me into thearts.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's, I think, and so it's something
that you were kind of drawn tofrom the time you were a child.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yes, already listening and fascinated.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah.
So what was your journey likethen?
Because I know a little bitabout some of the things you've
done, but I don't know the wholekind of story.
It's my understanding that youspent some time studying in
Europe.
Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yes, it is.
I went to somehow, through myinterest in reading culture, art
in general.
I fell into a theater when Iwas about 18, 19 in Saskatoon,
(06:13):
and this led me to the NativeTheater School in Toronto in the
summer of when I was 19.
And from there it led me intoDenmark, a school for Inuit and
Sami people in based in Denmark,and the following year and a
(06:42):
few years later it led me towork with a Polish theater
master His name was Grotowski inItaly.
So it was, I guess, by randomand by coincidence.
I ended up in hindsight likeworking with some of the
(07:05):
greatest people in theaterhistory, you could say, but at
that time I didn't know.
I was just going along with myinterests and the flow.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's a pretty amazing experience to be a part of and
then look back and be able tothink what a chance it was.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yes, yes, yes, I think about it and I'm grateful
for that.
But after, while I was in it, Irealized oh okay, I see who he
is and what the situation is,and so I counted myself as very
lucky.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, for sure, and so have you kind of just been
active in theater throughoutyour life or kind of ebbed and
flowed.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah, I would say I have been very active in it
because when I was going toschool I had the idea of,
because I was introduced toEuropean performance methods, I
(08:17):
had the idea of developing myown methods based on indigenous
worldviews.
So I would say everything I'vedone since then has led to my
present condition, my presentideas and my writings.
(08:44):
My writings reflect on theideas and my fear.
My theories have developed tothe point where I'm spending the
next two months in Europeteaching and talking and having
workshops.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Oh, amazing.
And where are you headed to?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
I'm going to Malta in the Mediterranean, and then
Poland and then Sweden.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Very cool.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So one of the things I was hoping to talk about is
the cultural festival that youhave every summer annually.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, every summer.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
On Out at Poundmaker at the cultural site.
That was kind of my first introinto some of the work you do
and I've been out a couple oftimes now and it's wonderful and
I was wondering maybe if youcould talk a little bit about
how that got going and just kindof what it is, because I think
people definitely know about it,but it'd be nice to talk a
(09:48):
little bit more about it andbring some awareness to it.
It's a great event.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Okay, as theoretical ideas developed on indigenous
performance, I came to thepremise that indigenous
performance is an artistic genreand not one defined or limited
(10:14):
by colonial identities.
I make a provocative statementwhen, deliberately, when I say
indigenous identity as acolonial category in theater is
(10:35):
obsolete, if not dead category,I'm not talking about in general
, like politically, or any otherartistic genre, like painting
or music.
Yeah, I'm talking specificallyabout performance.
Okay, right so.
So, based on that, I wanted tocreate a festival that took
(10:59):
place on Indigenous lands withinour own Indigenous structures,
but that was multicultural, thatinvited all people and included
all people through its method.
An Indigenous performancemethod must include all people
(11:20):
and its methods are derived fromthis Turtle Island.
Its methods are derived fromIndigenous source, bases,
culture and rituals.
That's where it's derived from,but it includes all people
(11:42):
Other than the contemporary.
The opposite is Canadiantheatre in general, which
doesn't include Indigenouspeople or BIPOC people.
Unless you can pass, unless youlook white and sound white, you
(12:03):
can pass, but if not, then youare denied a career in this
country.
And there are so many people,talented people, black, brown,
transgender, whomever does notfit the standard white male
(12:27):
categories that art is stilldriven by.
They do not fit that category,so they are denied a career
opportunity, and so I wanted tocreate a festival that bypassed
these limiting rules.
So that's what I do, and it'sbased in my home, in my land, in
(12:51):
structures I built that arederived from Indigenous
worldview.
Indigenous architecture is areflection of an Indigenous
worldview and brain and outlook,so that was its starting point.
I know it sounds heavy, but sowe did things like adaptation of
(13:17):
Ankovania by Chakoff Euripides.
We did adaptation of the ChosenWomen, one of his better known
dramas.
The reason was because we arebridging the European theater
(13:39):
into Indigenous worldview, sothat's why I took these European
classics and plant them intoour worldview.
That's its premise.
This is why I did adaptations,and these performances were
multicultural.
They were not just Indigenousperformers.
I included everybody, and Ibelieve that is the way the
(14:02):
theater in this country must go,and I think that will only
benefit the theater in general.
So that's a bit about it.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I can't help but think, just as we're talking and
you're talking about kind ofthe premise of the adaptations
of the pieces it immediatelymade me think of.
I had the chance in Calgary onetime at the Glenbow to see the
large scale Kent Monkmanpaintings and that's just really
(14:38):
when you were talking about thework that you're doing.
That kind of brought thoseimages to mind in maybe a visual
format where he's taking thekind of European hyper realistic
portraiture style paintings andbringing an Indigenous
(14:59):
worldview into those paintings.
So I don't know if anybody, ifyou've made that comparison or
anybody has, but that'simmediately kind of what came
into my mind a little bit.
It's yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Well, Kent is a good friend of mine.
Okay, and a good supporter ofmine and I've contributed to his
recent books as a Creetranslator, and we did talk well
, when we were younger, we didtalk a lot about this.
Yeah, and so that's kind of coolthis premise, and so I've seen
(15:30):
his work evolve over the decades, yeah, so where it is now and
it keeps evolving, and I keep incontact with him and we're
friends.
He's taken part in my festivalonline and I guess that was his
premise as well.
I'm not saying we have the samepremise.
Yeah, I can understand whathe's doing and I.
(15:52):
It's just like in European.
The good thing about Europeanclassicism paintings is, I
always noticed.
For me, I knew Kent was a goodartist.
When I seen how he paintedhands, yeah, or drew hands, yeah
, I thought, oh, anatomy, okay,notice, he studied the anatomy,
(16:16):
just like Da Vinci.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah, and so I was immediately interested because I
could see he was a classicistin the European sense.
Yeah, in the same way, in thetheater, I learned European
classicism as well, like theEuropean theater methods,
techniques, text, performancesBecause I believe you're going
(16:43):
to work in the theater,regardless who you are, what you
are.
You should learn yourprofession as well as you can,
even from its source basis, likeEuropean, the Greek, because
the Greek dramas, the Romanspectacles, from there, the
(17:08):
Japanese, no theater, chinesetheater, indonesian.
You should learn all those,have an understanding of all
those methods and techniques inorder to help you develop your
own if it's indigenous.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Same with painting yeah, Learn all those styles as
you develop your own style.
Yeah, it's impossible to comeout to create change or
innovation without that broadunderstanding and broad
(17:44):
knowledge.
Yeah, I feel now, looking backover the years, I think I'm glad
I did that because I wanted toknow everything.
Yeah, Same with Kent when Iseen his painting, I seen his
studying.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Like, unlike other artists, like I used to see him
study and paint Friday nights,Saturday nights.
Yeah, yeah, you know, peoplethink sometimes there's a false
impression.
Artists don't really work.
Yeah.
But I see them put in the work.
Yeah, same way I put in thework.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, yeah, I often thought, and I thought this
since, having done art schooland at the U of R, there was a
really strong art historycomponent, Mm-hmm and while I
was in it I just kind of waslike, oh, another art history
class which I always ended upreally enjoying them and they
were really usually quitespecific in different things.
(18:37):
But after you know, kind ofagain looking back type thing as
I've gone through, I reallythought, oh, I'm really glad I
learned that Mm-hmm, yes, yeah,and you kind of see different
things pop up here and there inpop culture if I'm watching a
documentary or different and I'mlike, oh, I learned about that.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I think, as you make your own way, it's good to have
studied.
Yeah, as you'll find and makeyour own way.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah.
So, A bit of a shift in topic,but I you recently traveled to
Columbia.
Yes, yeah, I wanted to ask youabout your that trip and what
you were working on there.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I went.
I was at the invitation of theAlgonquin actress and director,
emily Monet, whom I'vecollaborated with in the past on
through a podcast and just as a, also as a friend and colleague
and and dialogues anddiscussions, and so she invited
(19:48):
me to join her theater processin the Amazon.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
So I went there as she met with the Inga people of
the Amazon in the Putamaio area,which is like a remote
Amazonian area of Columbia, juston the edge of the greater
Amazon jungle, okay and and sothat process was how you could
(20:14):
say I guess we're all at thesame place in in life, in life
history for our tribes, which iswe're trying to retain, recover
, make known disappearing tribalhistories and culture through
(20:40):
the medium of performance andart.
So that's, that was the commonbase, that's so, that's what I
appreciated.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
No, what?
Yeah, what was it?
What was it like?
I'm just I don't know, evenknow if this will make it into
the podcast, but I'm just kindof curious from a personal
perspective.
What was it like to betraveling there?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
and oh yes, well, as I entered the Amazon, first of
all it's it's not as modern aswe are here.
The roads are very rough, thereis, highways, of course, narrow
.
We went by four by four Toyotatrucks, kind of like these
(21:28):
Explorer type vehicles with ourluggage, and boats okay,
amazonian boats with powermotors to go up the Amazon and
different parts in ourexplorations on the performance.
And the people live many timesoff grid, if on grid, very
(21:51):
self-sufficient, with food rightwith their gardens, herbs,
animals very self-sufficient,and people riding horseback on
roads, walking motorbikes.
Everybody has a motorbike, so inthat way I guess I got to see
the glimpse of well, when I wentto school in Italy it was like
(22:16):
that people walked bicycle,caught trains.
It's actually in the short 20s,in the last 20, 30 years in
this country, canada, that it'sbecome so modern.
It's always a vehicle orthere's no trains here.
Yeah so, but I grew Ipersonally grew up on the
(22:40):
reserve in a pre-technologicalera with stows and for a time
there are no electricity, horses, water from the creek we still
drank from the creek.
So going back, going to theAmazon and seeing that lifestyle
(23:01):
was, it was beautiful to seereconnect with that part myself
again, and that's what I try torecreate in my community.
I live off-grid, my festival isoff-grid, it's in nature, and
because I feel that's thedirection to go, yeah, within
(23:25):
our own structures, our owncultures and land-based, rather
than there's a trend nowadayswith indigenous people.
Artists to feel equal, they mustovertake a colonial institution
and sit in a big studio, a bigoffice, a hotel like in Banff or
(23:46):
the Nash Art Center, to feelequal.
They feel they must do that.
But if you read colonizationexperts like Franz Fanot.
That's a classic symptom of acolonized person In order to
feel equal, occupy the chair ofthe colonizer.
So I feel that's a directionwe're going to.
(24:09):
We're going.
I guess we haven't read Fanotenough to understand we are
following the classic example ofcolonized people wanting to be
their own masters by sitting inthe master's chair.
That's what we're doing in theNash Art Center and at the Banff
Center to feel equal.
(24:29):
And I myself, I can create in apublic space.
Yeah.
That everybody goes to there's.
They're like walk and try, youknow.
So that's a public space.
Yeah, I don't know, reallydon't know how you can go feel
creative, to go to some placelike that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
I think you are creative in your own workspace,
your own studio.
Performance people likecultural people, like a
traditional culturalist, youmust have your own studio, in
the same way that if you're atraditional practitioner, you
have your own ceremonial space,your own sweat lodge, your own
(25:14):
hogan for ceremonies andgatherings and storytelling.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
You have your own studios.
So in the same with, I think,in the theater arts, you should
have your own studio in your ownspace.
You don't have to go to a whiteman's space.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, I've been thinking about studios a little
bit.
My studio right now, thepermaking studio that I use, is
all packed up because we're inthe transition of moving and,
even though I hadn't maybe usedthe space as much as I had
wanted to over the last you knowlittle, while now that it's
(25:54):
packed up and inaccessible, Ifind I'm longing for it more so
hopefully yeah, there'ssomething to be said for, I
think, having a dedicated spacethere for artists of any type.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's a reflection of yourself, and
theater is a public art.
You must include all people,just like ceremonies, you must
include all people, so you mustcreate a big enough spaces to
include people.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
You have created some really interesting and complex
structures, and I know you kindof talked a little bit about it
in the beginning.
But I was wondering maybe, ifyou could talk a little bit more
about, kind of, some of thebuildings and structures that
you've created on your site.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Well, there's a few main ones.
The most complicated one isit's a 38 foot by 38 foot
circular type structure, 12sides, and it's based on Mandan
(27:08):
or Hidatsa earth lodge.
So, but without the earth, Ijust use canvas and a shingles
roof.
And the 12 poles represent,because within Kree architecture
, all the numbers.
They have to make sense You'vegot to be able to tell a story
(27:31):
about the numbers you're using.
So my 12 poles represent ourKree worldview, the four center
poles that hold up everythingthat the weight is balanced is
how the weight bearers, thosefour are also, within our Kree
(27:52):
worldview, the four powers ofthe universe and that sit in the
center of the sky, then theearth, then the roof, and the
roof have a cross thatrepresents the morning star, and
so it's a big public space.
(28:12):
It can hold many people, maybe50 people, comfortably, and it's
based on the land there, by asacred lake, so the land there.
So after performances we canshare by a fire, have tea or
(28:37):
ceremony after performances,other than because I attended
indigenous performance events inthe cities and I thought, well,
we're in first of all, we're ina white man's space.
After performances everybodygoes out to dance or drink.
(28:59):
And I thought how different arewe from the colonizer if we're
imitating them?
So I wanted to do a completeopposite, and so that's what I
do.
So first space, and then thesecond space is an extended
teepee Inu, people call itsabutha wan.
(29:19):
Same in Kree, we call itsabutha wan, which is two
teepees joined together by acenter pole.
So it creates a big space up tolike 36 feet long, 20 wide, and
it can fit lots of people.
But I use that as a stage.
I open up one side that facesthe audience and that's the.
(29:43):
They perform from within, thatsabutha wan, and the audience is
sitting outside and it's on awooden floor.
And then the third space is ateepee with a clay floor and
that one is the size of aregular teepee, 28 feet across,
(30:03):
and that one is more for smaller, intimate performances.
And then at the museum onPalmacre I have a steel teepee
that's 34 feet across and with ared clay concrete, red concrete
.
And that one is also astorytelling cultural space and
(30:24):
it's faced south.
A ceremony can take place there, a Kree ceremony because of its
words faced.
And so all of my spaces,performance can take place, but
also a ceremony can take placeand that's how, because I
conceive of the festival as anexperiment in performance
(30:46):
ceremony and culture.
And then also we use.
We've been reviving the lostlanguage, the Plains Indian Sign
Language.
It's been lost all but almostlost in this province, maybe
this country, and so I bring upa sign language expert from
(31:08):
Montana.
He's a Crow Indian, lanny, realBird, and so we've been having
for the past four years signlanguage workshops and we teach,
we're reviving sign language.
That's the best method to teachspoken Kree as well.
Sign is indigenous language.
It's the same signs for anyindigenous language.
(31:28):
So like good in Kree, same signwashtey in Lakota, washtey no
Nakoda.
And so same sign nizoh in Dene,and so it's the same sign.
It's the best way to learn yourlanguage because in our
workshops you can learn up to 40to 100 words and signs within
(31:54):
four days.
So can you imagine if you tookpart in five you'll learn 200.
And that's enough to converse,because actually we don't use a
lot of words when we converse ingeneral people.
So a language may have 30,000words but we only use about 100
to 200 words daily.
(32:16):
So that's how much you need inPlains Indian Sign Language and
you can actually you learn it.
I had a class in University ofCarlton last year.
All the students did theirfinal presentations and sign.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
So and we watched and we all understood and they all
did sign.
So I told the students you guysdid your presentation in an
indigenous language completely.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
So that's what I think is a good method, so
that's one of the things we dowithin those spaces.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, that's, yeah, really, really interesting and
I've been kind of curious tocome.
I'd like to.
Maybe, if it comes up thissummer, I'd definitely like to
come and I know Carmen wouldlike to come out as well,
because we know a little bit ofsign language, because, like ASL
(33:10):
, not you know, but it's still asign language and I think it
would be really interesting,especially if you're saying if
it makes it, if you're able tolearn an indigenous language,
kind of, while you're learningsign, you're learning an
indigenous language.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, we'll definitely keep on the.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well, you're welcome to come July 9th to 11th Okay,
three days this week this year.
Okay, at the lake, and thenafterwards afternoons and
evenings as performances, yeah,and then we'll back to class the
next morning.
So, yes, everybody's welcome.
I open it to everybody.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know we'll be able toput some links to a few
different things in the notesand stuff.
But yeah, people who areinterested in what you're doing.
You touched on the museum and.
I'm kind of interested to hearfor the people listening to hear
a little bit about the museum,because I think you're doing
(34:13):
something pretty unique there aswell.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Well, we started, the museum had been abandoned on
Pornmaker and then one of thecounts then counselors, milton
Titusus.
He asked me I was just a bandmember if I would be able to
revive it and if I thought thestructure, the museum itself,
(34:39):
was salvageable.
So we went there and we thought, yeah, we could save the
structure.
It had a big hole in the roof,doors were open and the malls in
and out.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Well, I didn't know that part of it.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
So whatever objects, paint photos were there were
scattered on the ground, so ithad been abandoned.
So within a few months, byspring and spring time it was
also there was a brush allaround the battle site, so we
chopped it all by hand with axesand then we cleaned up the
(35:15):
place.
Counselor Brandon Favell camein, fixed the roof by the spring
of 2017, we're up and runningand I applied for a grant to SAS
culture and so we got 5,000.
Since then, they've been a bigsupporter of SAS culture.
So we began the process oftelling our people's history and
(35:41):
culture and we've expanded toinclude the Creep people in the
area not just our community, butCreep people within our area,
into the province, into ournational Creep history, and
we've been, for example,repatriation I myself I don't go
(36:03):
out repatriating objectsbecause a lot of the objects
that come from our community,especially those from Chief
Palmacre, he gave them to people.
You can't repatriate objectsthat were given.
(36:24):
I noticed people repatriatingthings and I thought, well, you
got to research its history ifthey were given by that chief,
because people gave away thingsas just your friendship and so,
or later, when that person wasgone, sold them.
(36:46):
You could say, sold them underduress, those ones you can
repatriate.
So there's an ethics torepatriation that has to be
considered.
So I myself I don't go outrepatriating because most of the
(37:09):
objects of Chief Palmacre hefreely gave them, but some were
sold by his descendants underduress you could repatriate them
.
So rather than repatriating Iget donated objects.
(37:33):
So for us there this is muchbetter than we're not in an
adversarial position.
The reputation of our museummakes it a safe place to donate
back Objects in people's handsfor two generations.
(37:55):
Those are the kind of objectswe've been getting.
Chief Palmacre's pipe bag wasgiven to me by people who had it
that he had given.
His tomahawk he made while hewas imprisoned.
He gave it to a jail guard.
The great grandson of the jailguard gave it to me in Toronto a
(38:18):
couple years ago the pipe bagsame thing.
Palmacre gave it to a chaplainand a chaplain great grand
nephew gave it back.
So I house them at the museum.
(38:38):
Another objects they get givenwe have Henry Bodgery paintings.
Those are given.
I have an Eagle staff made in1860s.
Last shown in a photo in 1935,celebrating the 50 year battle
(38:59):
of Cut and I Hell 1885.
You can see that staff there.
This was donated back.
I have them there at the museum.
Unfortunately we have a goodsecurity force too on Palmacre
so there's regular patrols andthe security uses it as one of
their bases.
So we have good security thereand good band support chief and
(39:26):
council.
We have a good building andwe're one of the very few land
indigenous museums located inthe community in this country
maybe.
I was wondering, I was actuallygonna ask you that I don't know
of any except Six Nations hasPauline Johnson Museum.
That's all I know.
(39:50):
I'm sure there's many others,but as far as I know in this
province, so are the only ones.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Is it open regularly or is it by appointment kind of
thing?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
There's always somebody there and I think, by
virtue of us having a museumthat shows that the community is
fully behind, leaving behindour oral history, pushing it
(40:23):
forward.
A lot of the history we tell atour museum is not written about
in books.
It's been told to me, told tous, and I share that when I,
when people come to the museum,you can never get it in a book.
What we're gonna tell you andwhat we're gonna share with you.
That's where we do our signlanguage workshops, okay, yeah,
(40:46):
and then that's where the steelteepee is Right.
And there's camping.
There's RV camping facilitiesthere.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Okay, One other thing I wanted.
The last thing I wanted to makesure I touched on with you is
some of the work you're doingright now and the film you've
made, Ashes to Embers.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Yes, we made a film three years ago based on the
fire of the Delmas residentialschool of 1948, where many of
our parents went, including mylate father.
He was present that night andso we wanted to tell that story
back then and it's stillrelevant today.
(41:28):
We still show it regularly.
In fact we had a gathering onSaturday, the last survivors of
that school fire.
They came to a screening at theKutney Theater.
You know they came bywheelchair, by walker, by cane
and a couple of them by foot,you know, like able to stand,
(41:53):
and they're all in late 80s.
They came and that was an honorto see that and I was fortunate
in life, I would say, to havewitnessed that and something I
will carry with me forever.
And then our next film is morein-depth on.
(42:16):
We're talking to survivors ordescendants of survivors who
heard stories or witnessedburials of missing children,
unmarked graves, so verytopic-specific.
And this is very different fromanomalies, gpr anomalies.
(42:41):
Anomaly could be anything.
It could be a can.
That's an anomaly that the GPRground penetrating radar detects
.
And so we're going by oralhistories of possible locations
and in one of our groundsearches with dogs we came upon
(43:06):
positive confirmations of anarea with the remains and I can
say it now because we did issuea press release about that, so I
can share that.
It's not confidential and sothat's what the next film is
about.
It's called the Good Fathersand there is a lot of.
(43:29):
It is the oral testimony ofpeople whose family member went
to school there and neverreturned.
And no record of whateverhappened.
They didn't know, and stilldon't know, what happened to
this person, their eldest sisterand these are elders we're
talking to or the grandchildrenthat their grandpa talked about,
(43:53):
an older sister who neverreturned and never knew what
happened to her.
So we're talking to people likethat, and these are just a
handful of stories, but thereare many.
So because of our research, Iwould say you got to investigate
every name that's listed inthese school files to confirm
(44:19):
their record, the written recordthat we find complete the
opposite to the oral record.
They never seen this personagain.
But according to the writtenrecord they were discharged on
such and such a date.
So how does that work?
So lies, you know we could alsocall this film the lies of the
(44:40):
church, we could call it that.
So that's, and you know, snclevel.
And they did a GPR search,volunteered three years ago.
Two years ago I wasn't here,but it makes you question what
(45:00):
their motivations were.
I wonder if it was this forpublicity, because they never.
Their work was shoddy.
Very unprofessional.
I wonder if it's because we'reindigenous people, like it was
shockingly bad their work anddelayed and all that.
So that's SNC level.
(45:21):
I don't mind saying that Peopleshould be aware that,
especially people involved inground searches, they need to be
done in a very ethical,professional manner, these
ground searches.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
It's important to be doing this kind of work,
especially with elders andpeople who are getting older.
I've thought about that quite abit this last couple years with
my own grandparents and nothaving, maybe, the level of
understanding of my own historyand not having, you know, not
(45:55):
having had those importantconversations with the elders
and senior people in our lives.
So to be able to do this worknow and have some of those
stories for younger people tohear and to learn from, it's
important to document.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yes, yes, document, that's any artist, indigenous or
non-indigenous.
The base of your art is yourfamily and your community.
That's what made you, that'sthe base of your art, and so
it's good to connect with it.
(46:31):
Everybody has an oral history,everybody in the world, and one
of the features of any artist isthey tend to have an interest
in their genealogy and history.
Yeah, that's true All acrossthe board I thought well, it
(46:53):
says something your interest.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, for sure, is there anything that we haven't
talked about that you would liketo talk about, or anything
you'd like to add?
I think those were.
You know I've yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
No, I think we touched on the main points.
I just wanted to like just tokeep it focused, keep it
positive with the current thingsI'm working on and I'm going to
Europe to present a lot ofthese ideas, theories,
(47:28):
performance theories.
I'll spend two months there andyou know as much as Canada made
obstacles to Indigenous peopleand to myself.
Like to learn and study thoseobstacles were actually a plus,
because then you learned how tocircumvent them and to try to
(47:50):
create an alternative colonialreality, an alternative to what
was being, what was hard toovercome.
And it was hard to overcome inmy early years my accent,
(48:12):
visible, indigenous appearance.
I was told by many theatrepeople when I was young oh,
you're not going to find work inthis country.
When there's an Indigenous play, when there's a native play, it
will let you know, basicallyclosing the door to my face and
saying only native plays willconsider you.
These were the Canadian theatredirectors, artistic directors
(48:35):
in this country.
So I really have norelationship or interest in the
Canadian theatre system becauseof the way they not only treated
me but still treat anybodydifferent from them.
So I'm glad to be able to gowork in Europe in freedom, away
(48:59):
from this racist country.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, good you get to .
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Yeah, I just want to say that I've got to be
realistic.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
No, for sure.
I think it's important to saythe truth, yeah so that's the
way it has been.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I'm glad there's funding structures that can
support alternative theories.
I appreciate the funding fromthe different arts agencies.
It's not their fault thatpeople they fund have a rigid
worldview.
It's not their fault thefunders.
I'm glad the funders supportalternative ideas and theories
(49:41):
and I hope they keep doing thatfor especially not only
Indigenous people but minoritygroups, any minority group.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah, I have to say, in my work with the Arts
Alliance and a lot of what I doand what we do, is being that
kind of interagency connector,so I'm meeting with the funders
all the time.
I'm talking to artists, I'mtalking to organizations.
I will say, and I'll alwaystake the opportunity to say,
(50:16):
that we do have very goodfunders here in our province.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
And that they are willing to look at things
differently and to make changes.
And Sasqart Sasqulture,creative Saskatchewan, I think
we're in the lottery system.
I think credit where credit isdue.
They are doing a good job.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
Yes, I give them credit.
Like I said, it's not theirfault.
Some of the people they fundhold on to outmoded world views
and you know there's a lot ofpeople, recent immigrants.
They come from countries likeAfrica or Middle East and South
(50:57):
America, any place, ukraine.
They are artists and they havea.
I think there's.
I hope they find space withinour provinces, within our
countries, Any disadvantagedartist who comes here, whether
it's their sexual orientation ortheir color, their language,
(51:23):
that there can be space for them.
Tawau in Korea we say Tawau,there is space there is room and
that was the basis of thetreaties.
When the indigenous nationssigned treaties, it was to
welcome the visitors and givethem space.
That was the whole purpose ofthe treaties and I think that
(51:44):
still exists, our mentality.
So that's just.
I just thought I'd mention that.
Tawau, tawau to everybody.
There is space, there is room.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
We're in the initial discussion stage right now and
planning stage between the ArtsAlliance and Carfax ask to start
a partnership to do some workaround.
It's going to be focused juston visual arts for the beginning
, just to see how it goes, withthe intention to widen it,
broaden it out to other mediumsand art forms eventually, but to
(52:20):
talk about how we can makebetter connections in the art
world for newcomer artists.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Yes, newcomer artists , and we have to not use the
word settler In Korea, anybodyin that we call.
At that time there was justwhite people here.
We call them kizuomnwok, ourcousins.
We didn't call them settlers.
So this I always correct people.
When I do workshops and teachSome people, they introduce
(52:50):
themselves as a settler and Isaid wait a minute.
I said for me, we don't havethat word in our Kree language.
We call them kizuomnwok, ourrelatives, kewakumagannwok, our
relatives.
So that's how I like toconsider, that's how I want to
call you guys.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
I've definitely said I'm settler person.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
But I always discourage people when they're
involved in my workshops.
We don't use that word in Kree,so I want to call your friends
and relatives.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
One last question, just kind of on that topic
what's your opinion of landacknowledgments?
Speaker 4 (53:36):
I think.
Well, traditionally, when yougo into any people's community
or band or group, you alwaysacknowledge the leaders of that
community and where they are,who they are.
You always say thank you forinviting me here or allowing me
to come here.
It's the same way when youtravel across this country.
You go to a differentgeographical area.
(53:56):
You acknowledge the trees andthe mountains, you give them a
little offering, say thank youfor allowing me to travel
through this country, this land.
I'm not from here.
So same thing with landacknowledgments, same thing.
This is the indigenous nationsof this land.
It's good to do that, itdoesn't hurt.
(54:16):
But at the same time you mustremember treaties allowed people
to be here.
They're allowed to be here.
So that was the basis of thetreaty sharing.
So in many ways, the landacknowledgments, they shouldn't
be oppressive, but rather it'sdone in friendship and not to
(54:43):
use the word secular.
So I try dialogue with myindigenous peers and colleagues.
I say you know what, if youspeak Kree, we don't use that
word.
So that's my opinion on that.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
I'm going to think on that.
Thanks, floyd, really nice totalk with you, alright, thank?
Speaker 4 (55:06):
you for allowing me to be on this program.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
It's been great.
Speaker 4 (55:10):
Alright, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
I'm going to take out the show notes for links to
Patrick's music.
Thank you,
Your collective voice for the arts across
Saskatchewan.
This is Arts Everywhere.
The Saskatchewan Arts Alliancepodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So whether or not you believe in manifesting your
dreams, it's up to you.
But one thing I believe is trueOpportunity steps up to meet
you in the moment when you areready.
Whether you've seized thatmoment is entirely up to you.
This episode's guest is FloydFavel, and I dare say that, as
(00:47):
each opportunity has presenteditself in his life, he has
embraced it.
Floyd is from Poundmaker CreeNation, near Cutknife,
Saskatchewan.
So how does Floyd find himselfstudying and eventually teaching
in Toronto, in Denmark, inItaly, in Poland, in Sweden, in
Colombia, and there's more tocome.
(01:09):
It's a long way fromPoundmaker Cree Nation.
Well, he did so because he metopportunity head on.
Now, floyd's artistic talentsare numerous, but he humbly
describes himself as a cultureworker, and this is his story.
It's the story of an artist andit's a story of inclusivity.
(01:31):
And Floyd's words might makeyou feel uncomfortable at times,
but the truth he speaks needsto be said and it needs to be
heard.
And they are all the morepowerful because they come from
Floyd's experience.
Floyd speaks his truth, and histruth speaks of a desire for
(01:54):
everyone in the arts to feelincluded.
In Cree, floyd simply saysTawaw, come in, you are welcome
here, there is room.
So Tawaw.
This is Floyd Fable's story.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, thanks for taking the time to chat today,
floyd.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Oh, my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, it's really nice, it's been a while.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yes, yes, a year at least.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's yeah, and I wasthinking back the last time we
were chatting and maybe I wasgoing to be able to come out and
do some work with you again.
But it's been a while now thatwe've known each other, maybe
three years or something likethat, In the middle of the
pandemic, I think it was.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Pandemic, when our festival on Poundmaker, when we
went virtual.
Yeah, yeah, that's when Ireached out.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, it was great.
So maybe just for to get goinghere, maybe if you just want to
take a couple of minutes andintroduce yourself and talk
about who you are and what youdo.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Okay, my name is Floyd Fable.
I'm from the Poundmaker IndianReserve here in Saskatchewan.
I work in a theater, videowriting researcher, playwright,
(03:31):
professor and museum curator,but in short, I always just say
a culture worker, yeah, andbased in my community of
Poundmaker and working fromthere, and so that's a bit about
me.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yeah, one of the things I was interested to ask
you about is how did you, howdid you get started in culture,
in the arts, how did that?
How did that start for you?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Through as a boy, listening to the oral stories of
my parents, neighbors, familymembers, just through their
daily conversations.
They would mention historyevents and because I understood
(04:28):
Kriya, I grew up speaking Kriya.
It always intrigued me likedifferent things that happened.
So my imagination was alreadystirred back in the day just
from listening, from just beingaround.
I'd listened to what they saidand you know, like oral history,
when you learn oral history asa boy, they don't sit you down
(04:49):
and teach you, you just pick itup.
And that's what I did.
I picked it up and so by thetime I was a teenager, I had a
good understanding of the basicunderstanding of family and
community history.
And that was the first, thatwas the beginning.
And then thereafter, books, thelove of reading, public
(05:15):
libraries, school libraries.
That's what brought me into thearts.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's, I think, and so it's something
that you were kind of drawn tofrom the time you were a child.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yes, already listening and fascinated.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah.
So what was your journey likethen?
Because I know a little bitabout some of the things you've
done, but I don't know the wholekind of story.
It's my understanding that youspent some time studying in
Europe.
Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Yes, it is.
I went to somehow, through myinterest in reading culture, art
in general.
I fell into a theater when Iwas about 18, 19 in Saskatoon,
(06:13):
and this led me to the NativeTheater School in Toronto in the
summer of when I was 19.
And from there it led me intoDenmark, a school for Inuit and
Sami people in based in Denmark,and the following year and a
(06:42):
few years later it led me towork with a Polish theater
master His name was Grotowski inItaly.
So it was, I guess, by randomand by coincidence.
I ended up in hindsight likeworking with some of the
(07:05):
greatest people in theaterhistory, you could say, but at
that time I didn't know.
I was just going along with myinterests and the flow.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
It's a pretty amazing experience to be a part of and
then look back and be able tothink what a chance it was.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Yes, yes, yes, I think about it and I'm grateful
for that.
But after, while I was in it, Irealized oh okay, I see who he
is and what the situation is,and so I counted myself as very
lucky.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, for sure, and so have you kind of just been
active in theater throughoutyour life or kind of ebbed and
flowed.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah, I would say I have been very active in it
because when I was going toschool I had the idea of,
because I was introduced toEuropean performance methods, I
(08:17):
had the idea of developing myown methods based on indigenous
worldviews.
So I would say everything I'vedone since then has led to my
present condition, my presentideas and my writings.
(08:44):
My writings reflect on theideas and my fear.
My theories have developed tothe point where I'm spending the
next two months in Europeteaching and talking and having
workshops.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Oh, amazing.
And where are you headed to?
Speaker 4 (09:04):
I'm going to Malta in the Mediterranean, and then
Poland and then Sweden.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Very cool.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
So one of the things I was hoping to talk about is
the cultural festival that youhave every summer annually.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, every summer.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
On Out at Poundmaker at the cultural site.
That was kind of my first introinto some of the work you do
and I've been out a couple oftimes now and it's wonderful and
I was wondering maybe if youcould talk a little bit about
how that got going and just kindof what it is, because I think
people definitely know about it,but it'd be nice to talk a
(09:48):
little bit more about it andbring some awareness to it.
It's a great event.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Okay, as theoretical ideas developed on indigenous
performance, I came to thepremise that indigenous
performance is an artistic genreand not one defined or limited
(10:14):
by colonial identities.
I make a provocative statementwhen, deliberately, when I say
indigenous identity as acolonial category in theater is
(10:35):
obsolete, if not dead category,I'm not talking about in general
, like politically, or any otherartistic genre, like painting
or music.
Yeah, I'm talking specificallyabout performance.
Okay, right so.
So, based on that, I wanted tocreate a festival that took
(10:59):
place on Indigenous lands withinour own Indigenous structures,
but that was multicultural, thatinvited all people and included
all people through its method.
An Indigenous performancemethod must include all people
(11:20):
and its methods are derived fromthis Turtle Island.
Its methods are derived fromIndigenous source, bases,
culture and rituals.
That's where it's derived from,but it includes all people
(11:42):
Other than the contemporary.
The opposite is Canadiantheatre in general, which
doesn't include Indigenouspeople or BIPOC people.
Unless you can pass, unless youlook white and sound white, you
(12:03):
can pass, but if not, then youare denied a career in this
country.
And there are so many people,talented people, black, brown,
transgender, whomever does notfit the standard white male
(12:27):
categories that art is stilldriven by.
They do not fit that category,so they are denied a career
opportunity, and so I wanted tocreate a festival that bypassed
these limiting rules.
So that's what I do, and it'sbased in my home, in my land, in
(12:51):
structures I built that arederived from Indigenous
worldview.
Indigenous architecture is areflection of an Indigenous
worldview and brain and outlook,so that was its starting point.
I know it sounds heavy, but sowe did things like adaptation of
(13:17):
Ankovania by Chakoff Euripides.
We did adaptation of the ChosenWomen, one of his better known
dramas.
The reason was because we arebridging the European theater
(13:39):
into Indigenous worldview, sothat's why I took these European
classics and plant them intoour worldview.
That's its premise.
This is why I did adaptations,and these performances were
multicultural.
They were not just Indigenousperformers.
I included everybody, and Ibelieve that is the way the
(14:02):
theater in this country must go,and I think that will only
benefit the theater in general.
So that's a bit about it.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I can't help but think, just as we're talking and
you're talking about kind ofthe premise of the adaptations
of the pieces it immediatelymade me think of.
I had the chance in Calgary onetime at the Glenbow to see the
large scale Kent Monkmanpaintings and that's just really
(14:38):
when you were talking about thework that you're doing.
That kind of brought thoseimages to mind in maybe a visual
format where he's taking thekind of European hyper realistic
portraiture style paintings andbringing an Indigenous
(14:59):
worldview into those paintings.
So I don't know if anybody, ifyou've made that comparison or
anybody has, but that'simmediately kind of what came
into my mind a little bit.
It's yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Well, Kent is a good friend of mine.
Okay, and a good supporter ofmine and I've contributed to his
recent books as a Creetranslator, and we did talk well
, when we were younger, we didtalk a lot about this.
Yeah, and so that's kind of coolthis premise, and so I've seen
(15:30):
his work evolve over the decades, yeah, so where it is now and
it keeps evolving, and I keep incontact with him and we're
friends.
He's taken part in my festivalonline and I guess that was his
premise as well.
I'm not saying we have the samepremise.
Yeah, I can understand whathe's doing and I.
(15:52):
It's just like in European.
The good thing about Europeanclassicism paintings is, I
always noticed.
For me, I knew Kent was a goodartist.
When I seen how he paintedhands, yeah, or drew hands, yeah
, I thought, oh, anatomy, okay,notice, he studied the anatomy,
(16:16):
just like Da Vinci.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Yeah, and so I was immediately interested because I
could see he was a classicistin the European sense.
Yeah, in the same way, in thetheater, I learned European
classicism as well, like theEuropean theater methods,
techniques, text, performancesBecause I believe you're going
(16:43):
to work in the theater,regardless who you are, what you
are.
You should learn yourprofession as well as you can,
even from its source basis, likeEuropean, the Greek, because
the Greek dramas, the Romanspectacles, from there, the
(17:08):
Japanese, no theater, chinesetheater, indonesian.
You should learn all those,have an understanding of all
those methods and techniques inorder to help you develop your
own if it's indigenous.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Same with painting yeah, Learn all those styles as
you develop your own style.
Yeah, it's impossible to comeout to create change or
innovation without that broadunderstanding and broad
(17:44):
knowledge.
Yeah, I feel now, looking backover the years, I think I'm glad
I did that because I wanted toknow everything.
Yeah, Same with Kent when Iseen his painting, I seen his
studying.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Like, unlike other artists, like I used to see him
study and paint Friday nights,Saturday nights.
Yeah, yeah, you know, peoplethink sometimes there's a false
impression.
Artists don't really work.
Yeah.
But I see them put in the work.
Yeah, same way I put in thework.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, yeah, I often thought, and I thought this
since, having done art schooland at the U of R, there was a
really strong art historycomponent, Mm-hmm and while I
was in it I just kind of waslike, oh, another art history
class which I always ended upreally enjoying them and they
were really usually quitespecific in different things.
(18:37):
But after you know, kind ofagain looking back type thing as
I've gone through, I reallythought, oh, I'm really glad I
learned that Mm-hmm, yes, yeah,and you kind of see different
things pop up here and there inpop culture if I'm watching a
documentary or different and I'mlike, oh, I learned about that.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I think, as you make your own way, it's good to have
studied.
Yeah, as you'll find and makeyour own way.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah.
So, A bit of a shift in topic,but I you recently traveled to
Columbia.
Yes, yeah, I wanted to ask youabout your that trip and what
you were working on there.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I went.
I was at the invitation of theAlgonquin actress and director,
emily Monet, whom I'vecollaborated with in the past on
through a podcast and just as a, also as a friend and colleague
and and dialogues anddiscussions, and so she invited
(19:48):
me to join her theater processin the Amazon.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
So I went there as she met with the Inga people of
the Amazon in the Putamaio area,which is like a remote
Amazonian area of Columbia, juston the edge of the greater
Amazon jungle, okay and and sothat process was how you could
(20:14):
say I guess we're all at thesame place in in life, in life
history for our tribes, which iswe're trying to retain, recover
, make known disappearing tribalhistories and culture through
(20:40):
the medium of performance andart.
So that's, that was the commonbase, that's so, that's what I
appreciated.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
No, what?
Yeah, what was it?
What was it like?
I'm just I don't know, evenknow if this will make it into
the podcast, but I'm just kindof curious from a personal
perspective.
What was it like to betraveling there?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
and oh yes, well, as I entered the Amazon, first of
all it's it's not as modern aswe are here.
The roads are very rough, thereis, highways, of course, narrow
.
We went by four by four Toyotatrucks, kind of like these
(21:28):
Explorer type vehicles with ourluggage, and boats okay,
amazonian boats with powermotors to go up the Amazon and
different parts in ourexplorations on the performance.
And the people live many timesoff grid, if on grid, very
(21:51):
self-sufficient, with food rightwith their gardens, herbs,
animals very self-sufficient,and people riding horseback on
roads, walking motorbikes.
Everybody has a motorbike, so inthat way I guess I got to see
the glimpse of well, when I wentto school in Italy it was like
(22:16):
that people walked bicycle,caught trains.
It's actually in the short 20s,in the last 20, 30 years in
this country, canada, that it'sbecome so modern.
It's always a vehicle orthere's no trains here.
Yeah so, but I grew Ipersonally grew up on the
(22:40):
reserve in a pre-technologicalera with stows and for a time
there are no electricity, horses, water from the creek we still
drank from the creek.
So going back, going to theAmazon and seeing that lifestyle
(23:01):
was, it was beautiful to seereconnect with that part myself
again, and that's what I try torecreate in my community.
I live off-grid, my festival isoff-grid, it's in nature, and
because I feel that's thedirection to go, yeah, within
(23:25):
our own structures, our owncultures and land-based, rather
than there's a trend nowadayswith indigenous people.
Artists to feel equal, they mustovertake a colonial institution
and sit in a big studio, a bigoffice, a hotel like in Banff or
(23:46):
the Nash Art Center, to feelequal.
They feel they must do that.
But if you read colonizationexperts like Franz Fanot.
That's a classic symptom of acolonized person In order to
feel equal, occupy the chair ofthe colonizer.
So I feel that's a directionwe're going to.
(24:09):
We're going.
I guess we haven't read Fanotenough to understand we are
following the classic example ofcolonized people wanting to be
their own masters by sitting inthe master's chair.
That's what we're doing in theNash Art Center and at the Banff
Center to feel equal.
(24:29):
And I myself, I can create in apublic space.
Yeah.
That everybody goes to there's.
They're like walk and try, youknow.
So that's a public space.
Yeah, I don't know, reallydon't know how you can go feel
creative, to go to some placelike that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
I think you are creative in your own workspace,
your own studio.
Performance people likecultural people, like a
traditional culturalist, youmust have your own studio, in
the same way that if you're atraditional practitioner, you
have your own ceremonial space,your own sweat lodge, your own
(25:14):
hogan for ceremonies andgatherings and storytelling.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
You have your own studios.
So in the same with, I think,in the theater arts, you should
have your own studio in your ownspace.
You don't have to go to a whiteman's space.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, I've been thinking about studios a little
bit.
My studio right now, thepermaking studio that I use, is
all packed up because we're inthe transition of moving and,
even though I hadn't maybe usedthe space as much as I had
wanted to over the last you knowlittle, while now that it's
(25:54):
packed up and inaccessible, Ifind I'm longing for it more so
hopefully yeah, there'ssomething to be said for, I
think, having a dedicated spacethere for artists of any type.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, that's a reflection of yourself, and
theater is a public art.
You must include all people,just like ceremonies, you must
include all people, so you mustcreate a big enough spaces to
include people.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
You have created some really interesting and complex
structures, and I know you kindof talked a little bit about it
in the beginning.
But I was wondering maybe, ifyou could talk a little bit more
about, kind of, some of thebuildings and structures that
you've created on your site.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Well, there's a few main ones.
The most complicated one isit's a 38 foot by 38 foot
circular type structure, 12sides, and it's based on Mandan
(27:08):
or Hidatsa earth lodge.
So, but without the earth, Ijust use canvas and a shingles
roof.
And the 12 poles represent,because within Kree architecture
, all the numbers.
They have to make sense You'vegot to be able to tell a story
(27:31):
about the numbers you're using.
So my 12 poles represent ourKree worldview, the four center
poles that hold up everythingthat the weight is balanced is
how the weight bearers, thosefour are also, within our Kree
(27:52):
worldview, the four powers ofthe universe and that sit in the
center of the sky, then theearth, then the roof, and the
roof have a cross thatrepresents the morning star, and
so it's a big public space.
(28:12):
It can hold many people, maybe50 people, comfortably, and it's
based on the land there, by asacred lake, so the land there.
So after performances we canshare by a fire, have tea or
(28:37):
ceremony after performances,other than because I attended
indigenous performance events inthe cities and I thought, well,
we're in first of all, we're ina white man's space.
After performances everybodygoes out to dance or drink.
(28:59):
And I thought how different arewe from the colonizer if we're
imitating them?
So I wanted to do a completeopposite, and so that's what I
do.
So first space, and then thesecond space is an extended
teepee Inu, people call itsabutha wan.
(29:19):
Same in Kree, we call itsabutha wan, which is two
teepees joined together by acenter pole.
So it creates a big space up tolike 36 feet long, 20 wide, and
it can fit lots of people.
But I use that as a stage.
I open up one side that facesthe audience and that's the.
(29:43):
They perform from within, thatsabutha wan, and the audience is
sitting outside and it's on awooden floor.
And then the third space is ateepee with a clay floor and
that one is the size of aregular teepee, 28 feet across,
(30:03):
and that one is more for smaller, intimate performances.
And then at the museum onPalmacre I have a steel teepee
that's 34 feet across and with ared clay concrete, red concrete
.
And that one is also astorytelling cultural space and
(30:24):
it's faced south.
A ceremony can take place there, a Kree ceremony because of its
words faced.
And so all of my spaces,performance can take place, but
also a ceremony can take placeand that's how, because I
conceive of the festival as anexperiment in performance
(30:46):
ceremony and culture.
And then also we use.
We've been reviving the lostlanguage, the Plains Indian Sign
Language.
It's been lost all but almostlost in this province, maybe
this country, and so I bring upa sign language expert from
(31:08):
Montana.
He's a Crow Indian, lanny, realBird, and so we've been having
for the past four years signlanguage workshops and we teach,
we're reviving sign language.
That's the best method to teachspoken Kree as well.
Sign is indigenous language.
It's the same signs for anyindigenous language.
(31:28):
So like good in Kree, same signwashtey in Lakota, washtey no
Nakoda.
And so same sign nizoh in Dene,and so it's the same sign.
It's the best way to learn yourlanguage because in our
workshops you can learn up to 40to 100 words and signs within
(31:54):
four days.
So can you imagine if you tookpart in five you'll learn 200.
And that's enough to converse,because actually we don't use a
lot of words when we converse ingeneral people.
So a language may have 30,000words but we only use about 100
to 200 words daily.
(32:16):
So that's how much you need inPlains Indian Sign Language and
you can actually you learn it.
I had a class in University ofCarlton last year.
All the students did theirfinal presentations and sign.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
So and we watched and we all understood and they all
did sign.
So I told the students you guysdid your presentation in an
indigenous language completely.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
So that's what I think is a good method, so
that's one of the things we dowithin those spaces.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, that's, yeah, really, really interesting and
I've been kind of curious tocome.
I'd like to.
Maybe, if it comes up thissummer, I'd definitely like to
come and I know Carmen wouldlike to come out as well,
because we know a little bit ofsign language, because, like ASL
(33:10):
, not you know, but it's still asign language and I think it
would be really interesting,especially if you're saying if
it makes it, if you're able tolearn an indigenous language,
kind of, while you're learningsign, you're learning an
indigenous language.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, we'll definitely keep on the.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well, you're welcome to come July 9th to 11th Okay,
three days this week this year.
Okay, at the lake, and thenafterwards afternoons and
evenings as performances, yeah,and then we'll back to class the
next morning.
So, yes, everybody's welcome.
I open it to everybody.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know we'll be able toput some links to a few
different things in the notesand stuff.
But yeah, people who areinterested in what you're doing.
You touched on the museum and.
I'm kind of interested to hearfor the people listening to hear
a little bit about the museum,because I think you're doing
(34:13):
something pretty unique there aswell.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Well, we started, the museum had been abandoned on
Pornmaker and then one of thecounts then counselors, milton
Titusus.
He asked me I was just a bandmember if I would be able to
revive it and if I thought thestructure, the museum itself,
(34:39):
was salvageable.
So we went there and we thought, yeah, we could save the
structure.
It had a big hole in the roof,doors were open and the malls in
and out.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Well, I didn't know that part of it.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
So whatever objects, paint photos were there were
scattered on the ground, so ithad been abandoned.
So within a few months, byspring and spring time it was
also there was a brush allaround the battle site, so we
chopped it all by hand with axesand then we cleaned up the
(35:15):
place.
Counselor Brandon Favell camein, fixed the roof by the spring
of 2017, we're up and runningand I applied for a grant to SAS
culture and so we got 5,000.
Since then, they've been a bigsupporter of SAS culture.
So we began the process oftelling our people's history and
(35:41):
culture and we've expanded toinclude the Creep people in the
area not just our community, butCreep people within our area,
into the province, into ournational Creep history, and
we've been, for example,repatriation I myself I don't go
(36:03):
out repatriating objectsbecause a lot of the objects
that come from our community,especially those from Chief
Palmacre, he gave them to people.
You can't repatriate objectsthat were given.
(36:24):
I noticed people repatriatingthings and I thought, well, you
got to research its history ifthey were given by that chief,
because people gave away thingsas just your friendship and so,
or later, when that person wasgone, sold them.
(36:46):
You could say, sold them underduress, those ones you can
repatriate.
So there's an ethics torepatriation that has to be
considered.
So I myself I don't go outrepatriating because most of the
(37:09):
objects of Chief Palmacre hefreely gave them, but some were
sold by his descendants underduress you could repatriate them
.
So rather than repatriating Iget donated objects.
(37:33):
So for us there this is muchbetter than we're not in an
adversarial position.
The reputation of our museummakes it a safe place to donate
back Objects in people's handsfor two generations.
(37:55):
Those are the kind of objectswe've been getting.
Chief Palmacre's pipe bag wasgiven to me by people who had it
that he had given.
His tomahawk he made while hewas imprisoned.
He gave it to a jail guard.
The great grandson of the jailguard gave it to me in Toronto a
(38:18):
couple years ago the pipe bagsame thing.
Palmacre gave it to a chaplainand a chaplain great grand
nephew gave it back.
So I house them at the museum.
(38:38):
Another objects they get givenwe have Henry Bodgery paintings.
Those are given.
I have an Eagle staff made in1860s.
Last shown in a photo in 1935,celebrating the 50 year battle
(38:59):
of Cut and I Hell 1885.
You can see that staff there.
This was donated back.
I have them there at the museum.
Unfortunately we have a goodsecurity force too on Palmacre
so there's regular patrols andthe security uses it as one of
their bases.
So we have good security thereand good band support chief and
(39:26):
council.
We have a good building andwe're one of the very few land
indigenous museums located inthe community in this country
maybe.
I was wondering, I was actuallygonna ask you that I don't know
of any except Six Nations hasPauline Johnson Museum.
That's all I know.
(39:50):
I'm sure there's many others,but as far as I know in this
province, so are the only ones.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Is it open regularly or is it by appointment kind of
thing?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
There's always somebody there and I think, by
virtue of us having a museumthat shows that the community is
fully behind, leaving behindour oral history, pushing it
(40:23):
forward.
A lot of the history we tell atour museum is not written about
in books.
It's been told to me, told tous, and I share that when I,
when people come to the museum,you can never get it in a book.
What we're gonna tell you andwhat we're gonna share with you.
That's where we do our signlanguage workshops, okay, yeah,
(40:46):
and then that's where the steelteepee is Right.
And there's camping.
There's RV camping facilitiesthere.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Okay, One other thing I wanted.
The last thing I wanted to makesure I touched on with you is
some of the work you're doingright now and the film you've
made, Ashes to Embers.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Yes, we made a film three years ago based on the
fire of the Delmas residentialschool of 1948, where many of
our parents went, including mylate father.
He was present that night andso we wanted to tell that story
back then and it's stillrelevant today.
(41:28):
We still show it regularly.
In fact we had a gathering onSaturday, the last survivors of
that school fire.
They came to a screening at theKutney Theater.
You know they came bywheelchair, by walker, by cane
and a couple of them by foot,you know, like able to stand,
(41:53):
and they're all in late 80s.
They came and that was an honorto see that and I was fortunate
in life, I would say, to havewitnessed that and something I
will carry with me forever.
And then our next film is morein-depth on.
(42:16):
We're talking to survivors ordescendants of survivors who
heard stories or witnessedburials of missing children,
unmarked graves, so verytopic-specific.
And this is very different fromanomalies, gpr anomalies.
(42:41):
Anomaly could be anything.
It could be a can.
That's an anomaly that the GPRground penetrating radar detects
.
And so we're going by oralhistories of possible locations
and in one of our groundsearches with dogs we came upon
(43:06):
positive confirmations of anarea with the remains and I can
say it now because we did issuea press release about that, so I
can share that.
It's not confidential and sothat's what the next film is
about.
It's called the Good Fathersand there is a lot of.
(43:29):
It is the oral testimony ofpeople whose family member went
to school there and neverreturned.
And no record of whateverhappened.
They didn't know, and stilldon't know, what happened to
this person, their eldest sisterand these are elders we're
talking to or the grandchildrenthat their grandpa talked about,
(43:53):
an older sister who neverreturned and never knew what
happened to her.
So we're talking to people likethat, and these are just a
handful of stories, but thereare many.
So because of our research, Iwould say you got to investigate
every name that's listed inthese school files to confirm
(44:19):
their record, the written recordthat we find complete the
opposite to the oral record.
They never seen this personagain.
But according to the writtenrecord they were discharged on
such and such a date.
So how does that work?
So lies, you know we could alsocall this film the lies of the
(44:40):
church, we could call it that.
So that's, and you know, snclevel.
And they did a GPR search,volunteered three years ago.
Two years ago I wasn't here,but it makes you question what
(45:00):
their motivations were.
I wonder if it was this forpublicity, because they never.
Their work was shoddy.
Very unprofessional.
I wonder if it's because we'reindigenous people, like it was
shockingly bad their work anddelayed and all that.
So that's SNC level.
(45:21):
I don't mind saying that Peopleshould be aware that,
especially people involved inground searches, they need to be
done in a very ethical,professional manner, these
ground searches.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
It's important to be doing this kind of work,
especially with elders andpeople who are getting older.
I've thought about that quite abit this last couple years with
my own grandparents and nothaving, maybe, the level of
understanding of my own historyand not having, you know, not
(45:55):
having had those importantconversations with the elders
and senior people in our lives.
So to be able to do this worknow and have some of those
stories for younger people tohear and to learn from, it's
important to document.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yes, yes, document, that's any artist, indigenous or
non-indigenous.
The base of your art is yourfamily and your community.
That's what made you, that'sthe base of your art, and so
it's good to connect with it.
(46:31):
Everybody has an oral history,everybody in the world, and one
of the features of any artist isthey tend to have an interest
in their genealogy and history.
Yeah, that's true All acrossthe board I thought well, it
(46:53):
says something your interest.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, for sure, is there anything that we haven't
talked about that you would liketo talk about, or anything
you'd like to add?
I think those were.
You know I've yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
No, I think we touched on the main points.
I just wanted to like just tokeep it focused, keep it
positive with the current thingsI'm working on and I'm going to
Europe to present a lot ofthese ideas, theories,
(47:28):
performance theories.
I'll spend two months there andyou know as much as Canada made
obstacles to Indigenous peopleand to myself.
Like to learn and study thoseobstacles were actually a plus,
because then you learned how tocircumvent them and to try to
(47:50):
create an alternative colonialreality, an alternative to what
was being, what was hard toovercome.
And it was hard to overcome inmy early years my accent,
(48:12):
visible, indigenous appearance.
I was told by many theatrepeople when I was young oh,
you're not going to find work inthis country.
When there's an Indigenous play, when there's a native play, it
will let you know, basicallyclosing the door to my face and
saying only native plays willconsider you.
These were the Canadian theatredirectors, artistic directors
(48:35):
in this country.
So I really have norelationship or interest in the
Canadian theatre system becauseof the way they not only treated
me but still treat anybodydifferent from them.
So I'm glad to be able to gowork in Europe in freedom, away
(48:59):
from this racist country.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, good you get to .
Speaker 4 (49:07):
Yeah, I just want to say that I've got to be
realistic.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
No, for sure.
I think it's important to saythe truth, yeah so that's the
way it has been.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
I'm glad there's funding structures that can
support alternative theories.
I appreciate the funding fromthe different arts agencies.
It's not their fault thatpeople they fund have a rigid
worldview.
It's not their fault thefunders.
I'm glad the funders supportalternative ideas and theories
(49:41):
and I hope they keep doing thatfor especially not only
Indigenous people but minoritygroups, any minority group.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah, I have to say, in my work with the Arts
Alliance and a lot of what I doand what we do, is being that
kind of interagency connector,so I'm meeting with the funders
all the time.
I'm talking to artists, I'mtalking to organizations.
I will say, and I'll alwaystake the opportunity to say,
(50:16):
that we do have very goodfunders here in our province.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
And that they are willing to look at things
differently and to make changes.
And Sasqart Sasqulture,creative Saskatchewan, I think
we're in the lottery system.
I think credit where credit isdue.
They are doing a good job.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
Yes, I give them credit.
Like I said, it's not theirfault.
Some of the people they fundhold on to outmoded world views
and you know there's a lot ofpeople, recent immigrants.
They come from countries likeAfrica or Middle East and South
(50:57):
America, any place, ukraine.
They are artists and they havea.
I think there's.
I hope they find space withinour provinces, within our
countries, Any disadvantagedartist who comes here, whether
it's their sexual orientation ortheir color, their language,
(51:23):
that there can be space for them.
Tawau in Korea we say Tawau,there is space there is room and
that was the basis of thetreaties.
When the indigenous nationssigned treaties, it was to
welcome the visitors and givethem space.
That was the whole purpose ofthe treaties and I think that
(51:44):
still exists, our mentality.
So that's just.
I just thought I'd mention that.
Tawau, tawau to everybody.
There is space, there is room.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
We're in the initial discussion stage right now and
planning stage between the ArtsAlliance and Carfax ask to start
a partnership to do some workaround.
It's going to be focused juston visual arts for the beginning
, just to see how it goes, withthe intention to widen it,
broaden it out to other mediumsand art forms eventually, but to
(52:20):
talk about how we can makebetter connections in the art
world for newcomer artists.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Yes, newcomer artists , and we have to not use the
word settler In Korea, anybodyin that we call.
At that time there was justwhite people here.
We call them kizuomnwok, ourcousins.
We didn't call them settlers.
So this I always correct people.
When I do workshops and teachSome people, they introduce
(52:50):
themselves as a settler and Isaid wait a minute.
I said for me, we don't havethat word in our Kree language.
We call them kizuomnwok, ourrelatives, kewakumagannwok, our
relatives.
So that's how I like toconsider, that's how I want to
call you guys.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
I've definitely said I'm settler person.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
But I always discourage people when they're
involved in my workshops.
We don't use that word in Kree,so I want to call your friends
and relatives.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
One last question, just kind of on that topic
what's your opinion of landacknowledgments?
Speaker 4 (53:36):
I think.
Well, traditionally, when yougo into any people's community
or band or group, you alwaysacknowledge the leaders of that
community and where they are,who they are.
You always say thank you forinviting me here or allowing me
to come here.
It's the same way when youtravel across this country.
You go to a differentgeographical area.
(53:56):
You acknowledge the trees andthe mountains, you give them a
little offering, say thank youfor allowing me to travel
through this country, this land.
I'm not from here.
So same thing with landacknowledgments, same thing.
This is the indigenous nationsof this land.
It's good to do that, itdoesn't hurt.
(54:16):
But at the same time you mustremember treaties allowed people
to be here.
They're allowed to be here.
So that was the basis of thetreaty sharing.
So in many ways, the landacknowledgments, they shouldn't
be oppressive, but rather it'sdone in friendship and not to
(54:43):
use the word secular.
So I try dialogue with myindigenous peers and colleagues.
I say you know what, if youspeak Kree, we don't use that
word.
So that's my opinion on that.
Speaker 3 (55:01):
I'm going to think on that.
Thanks, floyd, really nice totalk with you, alright, thank?
Speaker 4 (55:06):
you for allowing me to be on this program.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
It's been great.
Speaker 4 (55:10):
Alright, thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
I'm going to take out the show notes for links to
Patrick's music.
Thank you,
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