May 9, 2024 • 38 mins
When the beat of hip-hop converge with the power of literature, transformation beckons. Khodi Dill, is an educator and author whose narrative speaks volumes about the role of the arts in societal change.
For those who find solace in rhythm and rhyme, this conversation about the underestimated value of hip-hop in the classroom is an eye-opener. Khodi Challenges the status quo, advocating for a space where hip-hop is celebrated for its historical roots in activism and its potential to cultivate empathy within our youth. By embracing this dynamic genre as a literary form.
Relevant Links:
Khodi's website: https://thegreygriot.com
Tonight Its Poetry: https://www.facebook.com/TonightItsPoetry/
Write Outloud: https://writeoutloudcontest.com
Dr. Verna St. Denis: https://education.usask.ca/people/profiles/st-denis.php
Thank you to SaskCulture, SKArts, and Sask Lotteries for your generous support.
Visit our website: https://www.saskartsalliance.ca
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saskartsalliance/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/skartsalliance
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saskartsalliance/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@saskatchewanartsalliance57
STARTING SEASON 2, THEME MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Patrick Moon Bird: https://linktr.ee/PatrickMoonBird
https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMoonBirdMusic/
Kevin Power: http://www.kevinpower.net/ The Saskscapes Podcast: https://saskscapes.buzzsprout.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Your collective voice for the arts across
Saskatchewan.
This is Arts Everywhere, theSaskatchewan Arts Alliance
podcast.
The principal at Cody Dill'sschool says that Cody is the
(00:34):
kind of teacher who stands atthe front of the room and has
the most incredible dialogue,debate and conversation with his
students to get them thinkingin a different way, to find
their voice and passion.
Cody found his voice early onwhen he discovered that access
to hip-hop music as an art formcontributed to his ability to
become, as he puts it, a fullyactualized human being.
(00:57):
Cody's work as an author,spoken word artist and
anti-racist educator working inSaskatoon is making a difference
.
For example, two of his books,cipher and Little Black Lives
Matter, are known for theircreative use of rhyme and their
socially relevant themes, andthey are born out of Cody's
(01:20):
observation that there is a biggap in Canadian literature for
this kind of subject matter foryounger audiences.
There is a lot to unpack inmaking change and Cody says that
the first step is to just startStart learning about racism.
There's an image Cody paints in, quoting Dr Alex Wilson, a
(01:41):
two-spirit scholar.
We've been marinating in itunconscious racism that is, for
too long.
That's a powerful image tomarinate in something, to have
it penetrate on a cellular level.
I come from a place of whiteprivilege and while I'm affected
by anti-Semitism as a person ofJewish heritage, and homophobia
(02:06):
as a gay man, this conversationreminds me that there is more
than enough racism and ignoranceto go around.
And look, it's not aboutpitting truth against truth.
At best, we find similaritiesin our experience and move
forward together.
Okay now, admittedly, hip-hopis not in my playlist, although
(02:28):
I'm a really big fan of themusical Hamilton, but I might
need to revisit hip-hop.
Cody says that it's dope.
As a listener, I find Cody'sstory to be well dope.
I suspect you will as well.
Here's Cody Dill.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Welcome to the Arts Everywhere podcast, cody.
Thanks for joining and agreeingto be a guest, um.
It was interesting because mycolleague, jessica reese, um,
first ran into you or met you ata workshop you were doing at
the regina public library.
She had brought her her kiddos,there for for a workshop and
(03:20):
and suggested you know, maybeyou'd be a great person to maybe
have on the podcast and do somewriting for the Arts Alliance
and I'm glad she made thatconnection.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Absolutely, me too.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah.
So maybe for the folks outthere listening, maybe just give
a little introduction toyourself who you are, what you
do, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Sure, my name is Cody Dill and I'm an author, a
spoken word artist and ananti-racism educator working
mostly in Saskatoon,saskatchewan.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Awesome.
So how did you kind of get onyour path?
How did you get onto your pathof doing your work as a writer
and spoken word poet andanti-racism advocate?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, well, and they're all kind of connected
for me right.
But I guess, to start out like,I always loved writing as a
child and just it took me a longtime to really find my voice
and a part of that was needingto wait until such a time that I
was exposed to voices thatresonated with me and so, you
(04:27):
know, struggled to really, yeah,just relate to a lot of the
writing I was presented with inschool.
Even though I did well inschool, there was just sort of
this like hollowness to a lot oflike my engagement with the
literary arts there.
But just like on my own,discovering hip hop and stuff
(04:48):
like that certainly was like aformative experience for me and
like continues to be a really,really important part of my life
and an important part ofinspiration for my art, writing,
the work that I do.
And around 2010, when I wasliving in Saskatoon, I
discovered Tonight it's Poetry,and Tonight it's Poetry was one
(05:10):
of the province's first andcoolest spoken word showcase.
You know programs that wasgoing on, and so they had these
weekly poetry slams.
They usually happened at thissweet little pub called Lydia's
in Saskatoon.
May it rest in peace.
It's been torn down buthonestly, that was a real
(05:36):
turning point for me, justdiscovering the art of spoken
word poetry spoken word poetrywhich of course was real
conducive to like hip hop,happening in acapella ways as
poetry in that same space, met alot of people through that
community who were very socialjustice oriented just as much as
(05:57):
they were artistic and talentedand everything like that.
That fostered a lot of growthin, you know, my interest in
social justice.
Through university, though youknow I had already been inclined
to sort of get involved andstudy anti-racism and
anti-oppressive education.
It really was like acombination of the two passions,
(06:20):
though that drove me to do mymaster's in the area of
anti-racist education.
I was sitting around at somestaff function, you know, in my
work as a high school teacher,and I was sitting with one of
the grad chairs for educationalfoundations at the University of
Saskatchewan, bob Regnier, atthe time, and I was just talking
(06:40):
to him about my love for spokenword and how I thought it was a
really cool place to like doanti-racism and he said, sounds
like a thesis area and I justhad no idea that I could even
possibly study these things thatI loved in a way that
amalgamated them and like madesense to me.
(07:01):
But that was like a beautifulthing to discover, I think, is
that in grad school, if you havethe right people and you're in
the right program, you canreally really make it your own
and you know for the first time,like just take ownership of
your learning in a supportedenvironment where you're not
sort of being fed what to learnbut you're actually sort of
(07:24):
creating that new knowledge.
And so I was super happy to beable to, you know, sit with
poets from various identities,you know, people with
experiences of oppression in anintersectional way and just
unpack their experiences andlearn about how this beautiful
art form really was a healingmechanism.
(07:45):
And learn about how thisbeautiful art form really was a
healing mechanism, a changemechanism for, like people
personally, but also for society.
And so, you know now, in thework that I do, even if I'm
doing an anti-racism speech, I'malways talking about the arts
too, you know, and the power ofthe spoken word in that.
And then when I'm doing myspoken word, I'm often talking
(08:07):
about anti-racism too, you know.
So it really is just all onebig ball of awesomeness for me.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, that's, that's pretty amazing, um, to be able
to, you know, go and do yourmaster's and really have this
whole essence of, of worlds andand things that you're
passionate about, yeah, yeah,that's amazing.
I was wondering maybe.
(08:34):
Okay, a few things kind ofstruck me out of what you just
said that I'd like to kind ofdelve a little deeper into, I
think, the first being you're ahigh school teacher, yeah, so
what do you teach?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So I teach at a really fantastic sort of
alternative school in Saskatooncalled Nutanac Allegiate.
I'm a senior English teacher soI'm responsible for a lot of,
you know, the grade 11, grade 12English classes that our
students take.
Our model is a little bitdifferent.
We're on a quarter systeminstead of a semester system.
(09:08):
We have our students for a lotlonger during the day and I'm
actually working in a reallycool program where we have the
same students in the sameclassroom all day long and all
year long.
It's called the NICE program.
It stands for Nutana IndustryCareer Education.
Our students get like a wealthof experience in terms of like
(09:30):
industry training alongsidetheir adult 12 education program
and their core credits andthings like that.
They're partnering our studentspartner with a great
organization called One House,Many Nations to build and
furnish a tiny house that goesto someone in need on a First
Nation, and it's just abeautiful thing to be involved
(09:52):
in, you know, and so I get toteach English, but I also get to
observe and take part in, youknow, creating something
powerful that's going to servecommunity, that allows students
to give back and gain skills inthe process.
It's a really wonderful place tobe and with that.
You know, a lot of our studentsare students that are a little
(10:14):
more mature than your averagehigh school students.
In the NICE program inparticular, we've got a lot of
19, 20-year-olds, things likethat, Students who were sort of
not properly served by theschools that they had, you know,
been a part of previously,where we're just doing our best
to make sure that their holisticneeds are met in a way that is
(10:37):
conducive to their success.
So it's a really wonderfulprogram.
Our students, I think, are thebest students in the province,
if not, you know the country.
They bring such a richdiversity of talents and
backgrounds and wisdom to thetable so that we can all learn
from each other.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
It sounds like it would be agreat environment to be, you
know, working in and as astudent.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Oh, it's so cool and you know it's co-taught, so
there's a variety of teachers inthere.
We all work as a team tosupport these students and they
have the benefit of this thisteam of professionals as well to
again just help them meet theneeds that they have, that they
require to be successful, whichother schools unfortunately
(11:26):
along their path, just haven'tbeen able to do.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, there's.
I kind of draw a parallel a bit.
I think there's a lot of thingshappening right now in
different sectors.
I think you're talking aboutwhere the school you work in is
a good example at you knowgovernance structures and how
(11:54):
can we do things differently andhow can we not necessarily just
do all these things that havebeen done for years just because
that's the way it's always beendone, when it's not necessarily
like serving the folks who areinvolved with the things that
we're doing?
And yeah, I think that that'ssomething that I'm starting to
(12:15):
get a bit of a passion for isthinking, you know, why are?
Why are we, why are wecontinuing down a path,
necessarily, that isn't isn'tworking out for for the folks
involved, necessarily.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Absolutely yeah, yeah , no, it's good thinking.
We we constantly need to becreative, be innovative and just
think about what we can changeright.
A lot of, a lot of old schoolthinking around education would
think how do we change thesestudents so that they can be
successful?
But, you know, an anti-racistapproach and an anti-oppressive
(12:48):
approach would be more like whatcan we do differently?
You know, because obviouslywe're not meeting their needs.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, the other thing I was just going to circle back
to there is thinking aboutTonight it's Poetry and it took
me kind of back because I back Idon't know.
Gosh, it must have been about10 years ago now.
I participated in this programand I got to meet I think was
one of the founders of Tonightit's Poetry, isaac Bond.
(13:16):
I got to meet, I think, was oneof the founders of Tonight it's
Poetry, isaac Bond.
And yeah, we were in thisprogram together and at that
time too, I was involved in thevenue that hosted Word Up Regina
here, the community in Regina,and I didn't really I got to be,
I was bartending quite a bit atthe Word Up Regina events.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
And so.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I got to soak in like all this amazing spoken word
poetry, you know almost on aweekly basis and talk to a lot
of amazing folks who aretraveling across the country or,
you know, locally or that sortof thing.
And yeah, I just wanted to kindof echo what you're saying
there the art form and a lot ofthe people involved.
It was just always such a treatto get to experience that on a
(14:02):
more frequent basis subsidiaryof of.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Tonight it's poetry with a youth and community
engagement focus.
Cool now, honestly.
Uh, tonight it's poetry is kindof on hiatus but right out loud
is having a heyday right, rightnow and, uh, these youth leaders
who have taken over for forisaac bond and I'm thinking
about people like peace akintadeand lauren clausen, who's the
current Youth Poet Laureate forSaskatchewan, dash Reimer, some
of these other youngervolunteers, are doing an
(14:42):
incredible job of engagingcommunity and bringing back
through youth what has honestlybeen a bit of a challenged art
form over the past decade or so,and one that has struggled to
stay alive just due to, like,the really strange political uh
turbulence that that it's beenthrough and that we've all been
(15:05):
through.
You know, as a broader, you knowuh nation, uh, let alone you
know province or locale, butthese young people are coming in
with raw truth, they're comingin with talent and they're
coming in with respect for oneanother and for each other's
emotional safety, but alsogrowth, development, reciprocal
(15:29):
relationships.
It's been really reallyincredible to see Because,
honestly, the art kind of diedfor a minute there, uh, through
spoken word, just because ofyeah, just some, some
conversations and some ways thatthat political pieces were were
handled within community.
But these young people camethrough and and they didn't have
(15:51):
that, that history and, and sothey just did what, what they
felt was right and and what theyknew was good and it's been
beautiful to witness yeah, thatis.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, um, so one of the things, you're also a writer
and I've kind of had a chanceto to kind of dig into one of
your, one of your pieces a bitum, not as much as I would have
liked to before thisconversation, unfortunately, but
I was wondering maybe um talk alittle bit about some of the,
(16:23):
some of the books that you've,that you've published yeah, sure
.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
So it started with a picture book called welcome to
the cypher.
Uh, this is a picture book foryoung people about rap music and
, um, it's one of those things,again, again, where you know I
love rap music.
I've always loved it Becoming afather.
I wanted to share that passionwith my kids, but unfortunately
I couldn't find a single picturebook out there about rap music,
(16:50):
at least in my location, and soI penned one.
You know, got got really,really inspired to do that, was
lucky enough to have itpublished by Anik Press and
illustrated by the wonderfulAradjua Affel, so it's available
wherever you buy books.
In my perspective, you know it'sa really great, fun way to
(17:13):
introduce young people to rapmusic.
It is rhyming, it does use anauthentic hip-hop voice and it's
got some wonderful charactersillustrated again by Aradjua,
and I think it came togetherreally, really beautifully.
There's also an audio book forit that blends hip-hop beats and
backing tracks with the actualnarration, so I'd just like to
(17:36):
encourage everybody to checkthat out as well.
Little Black Lives Matter is abook that I wrote as a love
letter to black children.
It's illustrated by theincredible Chelsea Charles.
These are two great blackCanadian illustrators based out
of Ontario, and again just superprivileged to work with Chelsea
(17:58):
, who did an amazing job on thisbook, little Black Lives Matter
, which is published by SevenStories Press, based out of New
York.
So really really lucky to workwith them too, and recently it
was actually translated intoPortuguese for sale in Brazil
and, yeah, I'm just so, soexcited about that and and the
(18:18):
fact that it may reach reachmore of those young lives in in
ways that I couldn't haveimagined.
Yeah, so the book you might betalking about, if you just
scratch the surface, is I'm notsurprised it's 77,000 words or
so.
It's Stay Up.
This is a chapter book forthousand words or so.
(18:40):
It's Stay Up.
This is a chapter book for youngpeople, young adults, to just
start learning about anti-racismand anti-oppressive education,
and it's got a little bit of myown memories of childhood and my
upbringing as a young biracialblack kid in Moose Jaw,
saskatchewan.
You can maybe imagine howinteresting that was.
But yeah, if you want to, youknow, learn some details.
(19:01):
They're mostly there.
So it's called Stay Up RacismResistance and Reclaiming Black
Freedom, published again by AnikPress, and there's some
beautiful, beautiful collage artby an artist named Stilo Starr
on the cover and throughout thebook.
That I think really elevatessome of the text as well.
So I hope young people andpeople of all ages honestly,
(19:25):
I've had a lot of grown folksread the book and if you're just
new to the anti-racism journey,it's definitely a good place to
start.
So, yeah, I hope it resonatesand I think one thing that's
been missing from thisanti-racism conversation is not
just the youth element, whichthis book speaks to, but also
(19:47):
the Canadian perspective.
There's a lot of books outthere, coming out of the United
States, where the scholarship isdeep and stretches back a ways,
but in terms of books with aCanadian context there are few,
and so I'm happy to be able tocontribute to that.
And I just have to shout outlike, coming back to my thesis
(20:10):
work and stuff like that, I hadthe privilege of working under
Dr Berna St Denis, who is one ofCanada's and the world's
foremost anti-racism educators,and the work and the teachings
that I was able to do and ableto learn from her have really
inspired.
You know a lot of my endeavors,but certainly a lot of what I
(20:33):
touch on in this book.
Certainly a lot of what I touchon in this book.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right, I think one of the things that I'm you know
that I think I found interestingabout starting to starting to
pick up, stay up and and, andyou know, starting to read it is
that you know, yeah, it's, it'sa starting point, I think, and
I think that's what a lot ofpeople need in their journeys.
I think that's what a lot ofpeople need in their journeys
(21:10):
and I was wondering, maybe ifyou could possibly speak to you
know, I'm thinking thelistenership of this podcast is
small but mighty, I would say,and there's a lot of people
working tirelessly in artsorganizations across the
province artists, that sort ofthing, and you know there's
probably I think we definitelyhave a few art supporters in the
mix as well but definitelyspeaking to the arts community
primarily, maybe if you couldtalk a little bit about starting
(21:41):
to, you know, taking the firststeps in doing anti-oppression
work and anti-racism work, kindof how would you advise people
to kind of start down that path?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, I mean, other than picking up, stay Up, you're
right, there's nothing to itbut to do it and to just start.
But it really does start withlearning and what we call
unlearning in anti-racisteducation.
We have all been conditioned tonot only accept you know racism,
(22:12):
but to just sort of almostpromote it in unconscious ways,
and we've been marinated in it,as Dr Alex Wilson would say.
And so, honestly, we all havethese sort of biases that may be
unconscious to us, that requiredeep investigation, deep
(22:33):
self-reflection andintrospection, deep
self-reflection andintrospection, and that requires
a look at the historical andongoing context of colonialism,
of white supremacy, ofheteronormativity, of all of
these systems of domination thatpervade the fabric of our
(22:53):
society, which otherwise remaininvisible.
You know, if you're not lookingfor them, you often won't or
don't see them.
The beautiful thing aboutanti-racism and anti-oppressive
education is that once you startlearning and unlearning, once
you start seeing them, you can'tunsee them, and so we need to
(23:15):
educate ourselves and diseducateourselves in order to become
the tools, in order to becomethe lenses through which those
problems are actually accessibleand therefore changeable.
Right, you can't change what youcan't see.
So it really boils down todoing the work and once you've,
(23:41):
you know, sort of started thatlearning and unlearning journey,
hopefully the allyship practicecan begin right where you're
listening to, taking directionfrom and doing your best to
support communities who are, youknow, more affected by, you
know, forms of oppression thanyourself, and we all are
(24:04):
affected by oppression.
Just, some people are morenegatively affected and some
people are positively affectedin various ways.
Right, so there's yeah, I wouldsay, book learning and going to
resources and online coursesand things like that are a good
starting point, and thenconnecting with communities,
(24:25):
social justice communities andthe communities who experience
oppression that you want tosupport, start aligning yourself
and, you know, asking what youcan do to make the work happen.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great place to start
for people listening.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, word up.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, yeah, we've seen some, I think, steps in
positive directions within thearts community, especially
within the last three to fiveyears as far as funding programs
being launched and that sort ofthing.
But I think there's alwaysgoing to be more work to do and
(25:13):
more room for growth, and alwaysroom for more allies and change
to facilitate.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, it has to be constant, ithas to be ongoing and it has to
be critically reflective.
Right, you can never quite sayyou've arrived.
I think that's going to takemaybe a few hundred years before
we get there.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So, yeah, just constant critical reflection and
action together are the keyyeah, um, so we've invite, we've
uh asked if you'd be interestedin in doing a, a series, a
written series for the artsalliance, which I'm really
looking forward to.
Um, I was wondering, maybe, ifyou would talk a little bit
about, maybe what you'replanning on writing about or
(26:06):
talking about in that, and givefolks a bit of a teaser.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, sure.
Well, I mean the basicfoundation and the title is
going to be something like howHip Hop Can Save the World, and
this again really just drives atthe heart of those
interconnections between socialjustice and spoken word hip hop
(26:31):
that are so vivid and that Istudied throughout the course of
my grad studies at theUniversity of Saskatchewan.
I think there's so muchpotential there that is untapped
, and partly it's untapped onpurpose.
Schools have been thegatekeepers of what literature
(26:54):
is.
You know, for many, manydecades and decades.
Hip-hop hasn't been necessarilybrought into the fold, if you
will.
It hasn't been acknowledged assomething of literary merit or
brought in as a part of anycanon or curriculum in any
formal way, and I think that'sreally unfortunate.
(27:15):
You know, from the verybeginnings of young people's
education, they should be ableto access forms of art that
speak to them.
You know, thinking back againon my own experience, being
restricted from access tohip-hop as an art form, as a
(27:36):
type of literature and a type ofliteracy, was extremely
limiting for my personal andemotional development and my
ability to fully actualize as ahuman being.
Right.
And so to me just looking backon that and thinking about how
many young people have beenrestricted in the same ways from
(27:59):
accessing truly culturallyresponsive material is a
travesty these days.
You know, a lot of schools andschool divisions pride
themselves on being quoteunquote culturally responsive.
There's a lot of problems withthe way that's taken up,
actually, because it's usuallynot critical in nature
whatsoever.
(28:19):
It's usually not aligned withanti-racist values.
It's usually not aligned withanti-racist values.
It usually relies onstereotypical and historical
manifestations of what cultureis and means, while actively
restricting modern forms ofculture and censoring forms of
(28:44):
dissent that would speak toequity and speak to justice for
those exact groups.
Hip hop is one of those thingsthat does and meets those
criteria.
It is a cultural element, it isa culture.
It's born out of the blackcommunity but it has become its
(29:05):
own culture, its own way ofknowing, and it's accessible to
students of all identities, butparticularly popular with
students of racializedidentities, especially Black and
Indigenous students.
Thinking about Saskatchewan inparticular.
This is a source of not justinspiration and joy, but also a
(29:26):
source of freedom freedom ofexpression, freedom of person,
freedom of conscience.
For these people it's a sourceof anti-racist education and
social justice.
Education because it is one ofthe only education, because it
(29:49):
is one of the only musicalgenres that is accessible today
that was born out of protest andthat continues to rely on
social protest as a foundationalelement.
This is one of the reasons whyit's so restricted, though, of
course, is because the powersthat be, who are controlling
things like curriculum andresources for education, are the
same ones being criticized byhip hop artists, and they don't
(30:13):
want to be implicated in thesystems of domination and
violence that create theconditions of poverty, create
the conditions of poverty of,you know, mental health problems
, addictions and other problemsfacing communities who are
experiencing oppression.
Those are the stories thatrappers sometimes talk about and
(30:36):
are met with finger waggingover being a bad influence or
whatever.
It might be right, but theseare stories of what life is like
on the other side of privilege,right On the other side of
difference, and they'reimportant.
They're important pieces ofinformation that can not only
provide perspective but inspirethings like empathy, which leads
(30:59):
to solidarity, which leads toaction and change.
So I think that, for youngracialized folks especially, hip
hop is an important tool forthem to be able to access just
organic, raw forms of truth thatare critical in nature, that
(31:20):
inspire critical thinking aboutsociety in nature that inspire
critical thinking about societyand beyond that, it's just dope.
You know why.
Why wouldn't you want youngpeople to experience this
incredibly engaging art formthat they're listening to
anyways but that has so muchpotential to elevate even their
(31:43):
own?
You know language proficiencyand things like that Hip hop is
often criticized for.
You know the way it uses slangor foul language or you know
these other pieces, but first ofall, that's a little bit
stereotypical.
And further, you know Ebonicsor African American vernacular
(32:03):
English is not slang, it's adialect.
The way that we, you know ineducation, ought to be looking
at you know that is as a sourceof potential for translanguaging
education, where we usedifferent forms and uses and
(32:23):
dialects of a language to helplearn about our own and to
compare and contrast and viewhow systems of grammar just work
differently not work in worseor better ways, but work
differently.
In a language form that came outof a rich community, slang as
well, like slang, is its owncode because it provides
(32:48):
relationship and relatabilityand access to identification
within communities.
You know, you think about theway that you know certain slang
words exist in indigenouscommunities, for example, and
how that actually creates asense of membership in a
community.
For those who you know usethose words and those terms,
(33:09):
it's a beautiful, beautifulthing.
It's worth studying.
You know, these are fascinating, fascinating facets of life
that are available to us througha study of something like hip
hop, that are available to usthrough a study of something
like hip-hop.
For me, as well, it's been anincredible source of mental
(33:30):
health wellness through themindfulness that it creates,
through the process ofintrospection that it inspires,
where I'm able to literallydigest and unpack the things
that I've been through in mylife so that I can understand
them, traumas included, you know, traumas which are often
connected to experiences ofracism and other forms of
(33:52):
oppression.
If we're not allowing space foryoung people to process those
things in their own authenticways and voices, we're doing an
incredible disservice to them inthat respect as well.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So I'm just a big fan of the arts and hip-hop is an
art and we just, we just can'tforget that, and and we can't
forget it on purpose, becausethe cost is too great- yeah, man
, there's so much there and I'mgoing to be thinking about that
for a long time and and I reallyam looking forward to kind of
reading what you, what you, youknow, put out, what you write
(34:29):
for us and and I and you know,thinking on that a lot more.
Um, one of the challenges Ithink that we've faced at the
arts alliance, uh, in advocatingfor the arts, uh, advocating
for the importance of the artsin funding, in arts education,
in for well-being in general, is, I think you know, we have, we,
(34:54):
we, we have the arts communitykind of as our main audience,
and that's that's superimportant.
Those are our people.
But one of the one of thechallenges that we've faced is,
I think, getting helping thegeneral public whether you know
whoever that is out there tounderstand that the arts are for
(35:17):
them, that you know, cause Ithink a lot of people kind of
maybe, when you think of thearts, a lot of folks might not
have that connection in theirhead to think, yeah, the arts,
that's for me, and so I thinkthis is why spoken word is is
such a beautiful art form, andhip hop too is because they sort
(35:38):
of began in community Right,grassroots we're talking about
here, and they remain one of themost accessible human art forms
like think about the rules of apoetry, slam, no props, no
music, no nudity or somethinglike that.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, it's just like you.
You, you don't need access toanything but yourself and a pair
of jeans.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, and everyone is welcome.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, because it circumvents that gatekeeping
that's been going on for so long.
You know, the idea of spokenword and of hip-hop, I believe,
are to give poetry back to thepeople where it really belongs.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add or you'd like to
talk about?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know, not specifically.
I'm just super excited to yeah,have this opportunity to
converse with you about this and, yeah, reach your listenership.
Yeah, being approached, youknow, by SAA was, you know, a
real great opportunity for me.
I'm thankful for it and, yeah,grateful for all of the you know
(36:48):
beautiful things that lie inthe partnership ahead as well.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, no, it's been really great to have this
conversation with you and to getto know you, and I look forward
to you know we look forward toworking with you as we go
forward and, you know, seeingwhere this path takes us.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
yeah yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure, thank you
right on.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Thanks, cody okay peace cool
Speaker 1 (37:12):
the next episode of arts everywhere is coming soon,
so keep checking thesaskatchewan arts alliance
website and their social mediapages for more information and
if you're listening to thepodcast through your favorite
podcasting app, don't forget tohit the subscribe button so you
don't miss a single episode.
The Arts Everywhere theme musicis composed by Saskatchewan
(37:33):
musician Patrick Moon Bird,dancing to lo-fi from his album
entitled 2021.
Check out the show notes forlinks to Patrick's music.
The Saskatchewan Arts Alliancewould like to thank our funders,
sask Culture and Sask Arts,both of whom benefit from
lottery ticket sales throughSask Lotteries Proceeds from
(37:54):
Sask Lotteries fund culturalorganizations all across the
province, and we wouldn't beable to do the work we do
without your support.
See you next time.
Your collective voice for the arts across
Saskatchewan.
This is Arts Everywhere, theSaskatchewan Arts Alliance
podcast.
The principal at Cody Dill'sschool says that Cody is the
(00:34):
kind of teacher who stands atthe front of the room and has
the most incredible dialogue,debate and conversation with his
students to get them thinkingin a different way, to find
their voice and passion.
Cody found his voice early onwhen he discovered that access
to hip-hop music as an art formcontributed to his ability to
become, as he puts it, a fullyactualized human being.
(00:57):
Cody's work as an author,spoken word artist and
anti-racist educator working inSaskatoon is making a difference
.
For example, two of his books,cipher and Little Black Lives
Matter, are known for theircreative use of rhyme and their
socially relevant themes, andthey are born out of Cody's
(01:20):
observation that there is a biggap in Canadian literature for
this kind of subject matter foryounger audiences.
There is a lot to unpack inmaking change and Cody says that
the first step is to just startStart learning about racism.
There's an image Cody paints in, quoting Dr Alex Wilson, a
(01:41):
two-spirit scholar.
We've been marinating in itunconscious racism that is, for
too long.
That's a powerful image tomarinate in something, to have
it penetrate on a cellular level.
I come from a place of whiteprivilege and while I'm affected
by anti-Semitism as a person ofJewish heritage, and homophobia
(02:06):
as a gay man, this conversationreminds me that there is more
than enough racism and ignoranceto go around.
And look, it's not aboutpitting truth against truth.
At best, we find similaritiesin our experience and move
forward together.
Okay now, admittedly, hip-hopis not in my playlist, although
(02:28):
I'm a really big fan of themusical Hamilton, but I might
need to revisit hip-hop.
Cody says that it's dope.
As a listener, I find Cody'sstory to be well dope.
I suspect you will as well.
Here's Cody Dill.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Welcome to the Arts Everywhere podcast, cody.
Thanks for joining and agreeingto be a guest, um.
It was interesting because mycolleague, jessica reese, um,
first ran into you or met you ata workshop you were doing at
the regina public library.
She had brought her her kiddos,there for for a workshop and
(03:20):
and suggested you know, maybeyou'd be a great person to maybe
have on the podcast and do somewriting for the Arts Alliance
and I'm glad she made thatconnection.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Absolutely, me too.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah.
So maybe for the folks outthere listening, maybe just give
a little introduction toyourself who you are, what you
do, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Sure, my name is Cody Dill and I'm an author, a
spoken word artist and ananti-racism educator working
mostly in Saskatoon,saskatchewan.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Awesome.
So how did you kind of get onyour path?
How did you get onto your pathof doing your work as a writer
and spoken word poet andanti-racism advocate?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, well, and they're all kind of connected
for me right.
But I guess, to start out like,I always loved writing as a
child and just it took me a longtime to really find my voice
and a part of that was needingto wait until such a time that I
was exposed to voices thatresonated with me and so, you
(04:27):
know, struggled to really, yeah,just relate to a lot of the
writing I was presented with inschool.
Even though I did well inschool, there was just sort of
this like hollowness to a lot oflike my engagement with the
literary arts there.
But just like on my own,discovering hip hop and stuff
(04:48):
like that certainly was like aformative experience for me and
like continues to be a really,really important part of my life
and an important part ofinspiration for my art, writing,
the work that I do.
And around 2010, when I wasliving in Saskatoon, I
discovered Tonight it's Poetry,and Tonight it's Poetry was one
(05:10):
of the province's first andcoolest spoken word showcase.
You know programs that wasgoing on, and so they had these
weekly poetry slams.
They usually happened at thissweet little pub called Lydia's
in Saskatoon.
May it rest in peace.
It's been torn down buthonestly, that was a real
(05:36):
turning point for me, justdiscovering the art of spoken
word poetry spoken word poetrywhich of course was real
conducive to like hip hop,happening in acapella ways as
poetry in that same space, met alot of people through that
community who were very socialjustice oriented just as much as
(05:57):
they were artistic and talentedand everything like that.
That fostered a lot of growthin, you know, my interest in
social justice.
Through university, though youknow I had already been inclined
to sort of get involved andstudy anti-racism and
anti-oppressive education.
It really was like acombination of the two passions,
(06:20):
though that drove me to do mymaster's in the area of
anti-racist education.
I was sitting around at somestaff function, you know, in my
work as a high school teacher,and I was sitting with one of
the grad chairs for educationalfoundations at the University of
Saskatchewan, bob Regnier, atthe time, and I was just talking
(06:40):
to him about my love for spokenword and how I thought it was a
really cool place to like doanti-racism and he said, sounds
like a thesis area and I justhad no idea that I could even
possibly study these things thatI loved in a way that
amalgamated them and like madesense to me.
(07:01):
But that was like a beautifulthing to discover, I think, is
that in grad school, if you havethe right people and you're in
the right program, you canreally really make it your own
and you know for the first time,like just take ownership of
your learning in a supportedenvironment where you're not
sort of being fed what to learnbut you're actually sort of
(07:24):
creating that new knowledge.
And so I was super happy to beable to, you know, sit with
poets from various identities,you know, people with
experiences of oppression in anintersectional way and just
unpack their experiences andlearn about how this beautiful
art form really was a healingmechanism.
(07:45):
And learn about how thisbeautiful art form really was a
healing mechanism, a changemechanism for, like people
personally, but also for society.
And so, you know now, in thework that I do, even if I'm
doing an anti-racism speech, I'malways talking about the arts
too, you know, and the power ofthe spoken word in that.
And then when I'm doing myspoken word, I'm often talking
(08:07):
about anti-racism too, you know.
So it really is just all onebig ball of awesomeness for me.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, that's, that's pretty amazing, um, to be able
to, you know, go and do yourmaster's and really have this
whole essence of, of worlds andand things that you're
passionate about, yeah, yeah,that's amazing.
I was wondering maybe.
(08:34):
Okay, a few things kind ofstruck me out of what you just
said that I'd like to kind ofdelve a little deeper into, I
think, the first being you're ahigh school teacher, yeah, so
what do you teach?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So I teach at a really fantastic sort of
alternative school in Saskatooncalled Nutanac Allegiate.
I'm a senior English teacher soI'm responsible for a lot of,
you know, the grade 11, grade 12English classes that our
students take.
Our model is a little bitdifferent.
We're on a quarter systeminstead of a semester system.
(09:08):
We have our students for a lotlonger during the day and I'm
actually working in a reallycool program where we have the
same students in the sameclassroom all day long and all
year long.
It's called the NICE program.
It stands for Nutana IndustryCareer Education.
Our students get like a wealthof experience in terms of like
(09:30):
industry training alongsidetheir adult 12 education program
and their core credits andthings like that.
They're partnering our studentspartner with a great
organization called One House,Many Nations to build and
furnish a tiny house that goesto someone in need on a First
Nation, and it's just abeautiful thing to be involved
(09:52):
in, you know, and so I get toteach English, but I also get to
observe and take part in, youknow, creating something
powerful that's going to servecommunity, that allows students
to give back and gain skills inthe process.
It's a really wonderful place tobe and with that.
You know, a lot of our studentsare students that are a little
(10:14):
more mature than your averagehigh school students.
In the NICE program inparticular, we've got a lot of
19, 20-year-olds, things likethat, Students who were sort of
not properly served by theschools that they had, you know,
been a part of previously,where we're just doing our best
to make sure that their holisticneeds are met in a way that is
(10:37):
conducive to their success.
So it's a really wonderfulprogram.
Our students, I think, are thebest students in the province,
if not, you know the country.
They bring such a richdiversity of talents and
backgrounds and wisdom to thetable so that we can all learn
from each other.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
It sounds like it would be agreat environment to be, you
know, working in and as astudent.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Oh, it's so cool and you know it's co-taught, so
there's a variety of teachers inthere.
We all work as a team tosupport these students and they
have the benefit of this thisteam of professionals as well to
again just help them meet theneeds that they have, that they
require to be successful, whichother schools unfortunately
(11:26):
along their path, just haven'tbeen able to do.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, there's.
I kind of draw a parallel a bit.
I think there's a lot of thingshappening right now in
different sectors.
I think you're talking aboutwhere the school you work in is
a good example at you knowgovernance structures and how
(11:54):
can we do things differently andhow can we not necessarily just
do all these things that havebeen done for years just because
that's the way it's always beendone, when it's not necessarily
like serving the folks who areinvolved with the things that
we're doing?
And yeah, I think that that'ssomething that I'm starting to
(12:15):
get a bit of a passion for isthinking, you know, why are?
Why are we, why are wecontinuing down a path,
necessarily, that isn't isn'tworking out for for the folks
involved, necessarily.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Absolutely yeah, yeah , no, it's good thinking.
We we constantly need to becreative, be innovative and just
think about what we can changeright.
A lot of, a lot of old schoolthinking around education would
think how do we change thesestudents so that they can be
successful?
But, you know, an anti-racistapproach and an anti-oppressive
(12:48):
approach would be more like whatcan we do differently?
You know, because obviouslywe're not meeting their needs.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, the other thing I was just going to circle back
to there is thinking aboutTonight it's Poetry and it took
me kind of back because I back Idon't know.
Gosh, it must have been about10 years ago now.
I participated in this programand I got to meet I think was
one of the founders of Tonightit's Poetry, isaac Bond.
(13:16):
I got to meet, I think, was oneof the founders of Tonight it's
Poetry, isaac Bond.
And yeah, we were in thisprogram together and at that
time too, I was involved in thevenue that hosted Word Up Regina
here, the community in Regina,and I didn't really I got to be,
I was bartending quite a bit atthe Word Up Regina events.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
And so.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I got to soak in like all this amazing spoken word
poetry, you know almost on aweekly basis and talk to a lot
of amazing folks who aretraveling across the country or,
you know, locally or that sortof thing.
And yeah, I just wanted to kindof echo what you're saying
there the art form and a lot ofthe people involved.
It was just always such a treatto get to experience that on a
(14:02):
more frequent basis subsidiaryof of.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Tonight it's poetry with a youth and community
engagement focus.
Cool now, honestly.
Uh, tonight it's poetry is kindof on hiatus but right out loud
is having a heyday right, rightnow and, uh, these youth leaders
who have taken over for forisaac bond and I'm thinking
about people like peace akintadeand lauren clausen, who's the
current Youth Poet Laureate forSaskatchewan, dash Reimer, some
of these other youngervolunteers, are doing an
(14:42):
incredible job of engagingcommunity and bringing back
through youth what has honestlybeen a bit of a challenged art
form over the past decade or so,and one that has struggled to
stay alive just due to, like,the really strange political uh
turbulence that that it's beenthrough and that we've all been
(15:05):
through.
You know, as a broader, you knowuh nation, uh, let alone you
know province or locale, butthese young people are coming in
with raw truth, they're comingin with talent and they're
coming in with respect for oneanother and for each other's
emotional safety, but alsogrowth, development, reciprocal
(15:29):
relationships.
It's been really reallyincredible to see Because,
honestly, the art kind of diedfor a minute there, uh, through
spoken word, just because ofyeah, just some, some
conversations and some ways thatthat political pieces were were
handled within community.
But these young people camethrough and and they didn't have
(15:51):
that, that history and, and sothey just did what, what they
felt was right and and what theyknew was good and it's been
beautiful to witness yeah, thatis.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, um, so one of the things, you're also a writer
and I've kind of had a chanceto to kind of dig into one of
your, one of your pieces a bitum, not as much as I would have
liked to before thisconversation, unfortunately, but
I was wondering maybe um talk alittle bit about some of the,
(16:23):
some of the books that you've,that you've published yeah, sure
.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
So it started with a picture book called welcome to
the cypher.
Uh, this is a picture book foryoung people about rap music and
, um, it's one of those things,again, again, where you know I
love rap music.
I've always loved it Becoming afather.
I wanted to share that passionwith my kids, but unfortunately
I couldn't find a single picturebook out there about rap music,
(16:50):
at least in my location, and soI penned one.
You know, got got really,really inspired to do that, was
lucky enough to have itpublished by Anik Press and
illustrated by the wonderfulAradjua Affel, so it's available
wherever you buy books.
In my perspective, you know it'sa really great, fun way to
(17:13):
introduce young people to rapmusic.
It is rhyming, it does use anauthentic hip-hop voice and it's
got some wonderful charactersillustrated again by Aradjua,
and I think it came togetherreally, really beautifully.
There's also an audio book forit that blends hip-hop beats and
backing tracks with the actualnarration, so I'd just like to
(17:36):
encourage everybody to checkthat out as well.
Little Black Lives Matter is abook that I wrote as a love
letter to black children.
It's illustrated by theincredible Chelsea Charles.
These are two great blackCanadian illustrators based out
of Ontario, and again just superprivileged to work with Chelsea
(17:58):
, who did an amazing job on thisbook, little Black Lives Matter
, which is published by SevenStories Press, based out of New
York.
So really really lucky to workwith them too, and recently it
was actually translated intoPortuguese for sale in Brazil
and, yeah, I'm just so, soexcited about that and and the
(18:18):
fact that it may reach reachmore of those young lives in in
ways that I couldn't haveimagined.
Yeah, so the book you might betalking about, if you just
scratch the surface, is I'm notsurprised it's 77,000 words or
so.
It's Stay Up.
This is a chapter book forthousand words or so.
(18:40):
It's Stay Up.
This is a chapter book for youngpeople, young adults, to just
start learning about anti-racismand anti-oppressive education,
and it's got a little bit of myown memories of childhood and my
upbringing as a young biracialblack kid in Moose Jaw,
saskatchewan.
You can maybe imagine howinteresting that was.
But yeah, if you want to, youknow, learn some details.
(19:01):
They're mostly there.
So it's called Stay Up RacismResistance and Reclaiming Black
Freedom, published again by AnikPress, and there's some
beautiful, beautiful collage artby an artist named Stilo Starr
on the cover and throughout thebook.
That I think really elevatessome of the text as well.
So I hope young people andpeople of all ages honestly,
(19:25):
I've had a lot of grown folksread the book and if you're just
new to the anti-racism journey,it's definitely a good place to
start.
So, yeah, I hope it resonatesand I think one thing that's
been missing from thisanti-racism conversation is not
just the youth element, whichthis book speaks to, but also
(19:47):
the Canadian perspective.
There's a lot of books outthere, coming out of the United
States, where the scholarship isdeep and stretches back a ways,
but in terms of books with aCanadian context there are few,
and so I'm happy to be able tocontribute to that.
And I just have to shout outlike, coming back to my thesis
(20:10):
work and stuff like that, I hadthe privilege of working under
Dr Berna St Denis, who is one ofCanada's and the world's
foremost anti-racism educators,and the work and the teachings
that I was able to do and ableto learn from her have really
inspired.
You know a lot of my endeavors,but certainly a lot of what I
(20:33):
touch on in this book.
Certainly a lot of what I touchon in this book.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right, I think one of the things that I'm you know
that I think I found interestingabout starting to starting to
pick up, stay up and and, andyou know, starting to read it is
that you know, yeah, it's, it'sa starting point, I think, and
I think that's what a lot ofpeople need in their journeys.
I think that's what a lot ofpeople need in their journeys
(21:10):
and I was wondering, maybe ifyou could possibly speak to you
know, I'm thinking thelistenership of this podcast is
small but mighty, I would say,and there's a lot of people
working tirelessly in artsorganizations across the
province artists, that sort ofthing, and you know there's
probably I think we definitelyhave a few art supporters in the
mix as well but definitelyspeaking to the arts community
primarily, maybe if you couldtalk a little bit about starting
(21:41):
to, you know, taking the firststeps in doing anti-oppression
work and anti-racism work, kindof how would you advise people
to kind of start down that path?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, I mean, other than picking up, stay Up, you're
right, there's nothing to itbut to do it and to just start.
But it really does start withlearning and what we call
unlearning in anti-racisteducation.
We have all been conditioned tonot only accept you know racism,
(22:12):
but to just sort of almostpromote it in unconscious ways,
and we've been marinated in it,as Dr Alex Wilson would say.
And so, honestly, we all havethese sort of biases that may be
unconscious to us, that requiredeep investigation, deep
(22:33):
self-reflection andintrospection, deep
self-reflection andintrospection, and that requires
a look at the historical andongoing context of colonialism,
of white supremacy, ofheteronormativity, of all of
these systems of domination thatpervade the fabric of our
(22:53):
society, which otherwise remaininvisible.
You know, if you're not lookingfor them, you often won't or
don't see them.
The beautiful thing aboutanti-racism and anti-oppressive
education is that once you startlearning and unlearning, once
you start seeing them, you can'tunsee them, and so we need to
(23:15):
educate ourselves and diseducateourselves in order to become
the tools, in order to becomethe lenses through which those
problems are actually accessibleand therefore changeable.
Right, you can't change what youcan't see.
So it really boils down todoing the work and once you've,
(23:41):
you know, sort of started thatlearning and unlearning journey,
hopefully the allyship practicecan begin right where you're
listening to, taking directionfrom and doing your best to
support communities who are, youknow, more affected by, you
know, forms of oppression thanyourself, and we all are
(24:04):
affected by oppression.
Just, some people are morenegatively affected and some
people are positively affectedin various ways.
Right, so there's yeah, I wouldsay, book learning and going to
resources and online coursesand things like that are a good
starting point, and thenconnecting with communities,
(24:25):
social justice communities andthe communities who experience
oppression that you want tosupport, start aligning yourself
and, you know, asking what youcan do to make the work happen.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great place to start
for people listening.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, word up.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, yeah, we've seen some, I think, steps in
positive directions within thearts community, especially
within the last three to fiveyears as far as funding programs
being launched and that sort ofthing.
But I think there's alwaysgoing to be more work to do and
(25:13):
more room for growth, and alwaysroom for more allies and change
to facilitate.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, it has to be constant, ithas to be ongoing and it has to
be critically reflective.
Right, you can never quite sayyou've arrived.
I think that's going to takemaybe a few hundred years before
we get there.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So, yeah, just constant critical reflection and
action together are the keyyeah, um, so we've invite, we've
uh asked if you'd be interestedin in doing a, a series, a
written series for the artsalliance, which I'm really
looking forward to.
Um, I was wondering, maybe, ifyou would talk a little bit
about, maybe what you'replanning on writing about or
(26:06):
talking about in that, and givefolks a bit of a teaser.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, sure.
Well, I mean the basicfoundation and the title is
going to be something like howHip Hop Can Save the World, and
this again really just drives atthe heart of those
interconnections between socialjustice and spoken word hip hop
(26:31):
that are so vivid and that Istudied throughout the course of
my grad studies at theUniversity of Saskatchewan.
I think there's so muchpotential there that is untapped
, and partly it's untapped onpurpose.
Schools have been thegatekeepers of what literature
(26:54):
is.
You know, for many, manydecades and decades.
Hip-hop hasn't been necessarilybrought into the fold, if you
will.
It hasn't been acknowledged assomething of literary merit or
brought in as a part of anycanon or curriculum in any
formal way, and I think that'sreally unfortunate.
(27:15):
You know, from the verybeginnings of young people's
education, they should be ableto access forms of art that
speak to them.
You know, thinking back againon my own experience, being
restricted from access tohip-hop as an art form, as a
(27:36):
type of literature and a type ofliteracy, was extremely
limiting for my personal andemotional development and my
ability to fully actualize as ahuman being.
Right.
And so to me just looking backon that and thinking about how
many young people have beenrestricted in the same ways from
(27:59):
accessing truly culturallyresponsive material is a
travesty these days.
You know, a lot of schools andschool divisions pride
themselves on being quoteunquote culturally responsive.
There's a lot of problems withthe way that's taken up,
actually, because it's usuallynot critical in nature
whatsoever.
(28:19):
It's usually not aligned withanti-racist values.
It's usually not aligned withanti-racist values.
It usually relies onstereotypical and historical
manifestations of what cultureis and means, while actively
restricting modern forms ofculture and censoring forms of
(28:44):
dissent that would speak toequity and speak to justice for
those exact groups.
Hip hop is one of those thingsthat does and meets those
criteria.
It is a cultural element, it isa culture.
It's born out of the blackcommunity but it has become its
(29:05):
own culture, its own way ofknowing, and it's accessible to
students of all identities, butparticularly popular with
students of racializedidentities, especially Black and
Indigenous students.
Thinking about Saskatchewan inparticular.
This is a source of not justinspiration and joy, but also a
(29:26):
source of freedom freedom ofexpression, freedom of person,
freedom of conscience.
For these people it's a sourceof anti-racist education and
social justice.
Education because it is one ofthe only education, because it
(29:49):
is one of the only musicalgenres that is accessible today
that was born out of protest andthat continues to rely on
social protest as a foundationalelement.
This is one of the reasons whyit's so restricted, though, of
course, is because the powersthat be, who are controlling
things like curriculum andresources for education, are the
same ones being criticized byhip hop artists, and they don't
(30:13):
want to be implicated in thesystems of domination and
violence that create theconditions of poverty, create
the conditions of poverty of,you know, mental health problems
, addictions and other problemsfacing communities who are
experiencing oppression.
Those are the stories thatrappers sometimes talk about and
(30:36):
are met with finger waggingover being a bad influence or
whatever.
It might be right, but theseare stories of what life is like
on the other side of privilege,right On the other side of
difference, and they'reimportant.
They're important pieces ofinformation that can not only
provide perspective but inspirethings like empathy, which leads
(30:59):
to solidarity, which leads toaction and change.
So I think that, for youngracialized folks especially, hip
hop is an important tool forthem to be able to access just
organic, raw forms of truth thatare critical in nature, that
(31:20):
inspire critical thinking aboutsociety in nature that inspire
critical thinking about societyand beyond that, it's just dope.
You know why.
Why wouldn't you want youngpeople to experience this
incredibly engaging art formthat they're listening to
anyways but that has so muchpotential to elevate even their
(31:43):
own?
You know language proficiencyand things like that Hip hop is
often criticized for.
You know the way it uses slangor foul language or you know
these other pieces, but first ofall, that's a little bit
stereotypical.
And further, you know Ebonicsor African American vernacular
(32:03):
English is not slang, it's adialect.
The way that we, you know ineducation, ought to be looking
at you know that is as a sourceof potential for translanguaging
education, where we usedifferent forms and uses and
(32:23):
dialects of a language to helplearn about our own and to
compare and contrast and viewhow systems of grammar just work
differently not work in worseor better ways, but work
differently.
In a language form that came outof a rich community, slang as
well, like slang, is its owncode because it provides
(32:48):
relationship and relatabilityand access to identification
within communities.
You know, you think about theway that you know certain slang
words exist in indigenouscommunities, for example, and
how that actually creates asense of membership in a
community.
For those who you know usethose words and those terms,
(33:09):
it's a beautiful, beautifulthing.
It's worth studying.
You know, these are fascinating, fascinating facets of life
that are available to us througha study of something like hip
hop, that are available to usthrough a study of something
like hip-hop.
For me, as well, it's been anincredible source of mental
(33:30):
health wellness through themindfulness that it creates,
through the process ofintrospection that it inspires,
where I'm able to literallydigest and unpack the things
that I've been through in mylife so that I can understand
them, traumas included, you know, traumas which are often
connected to experiences ofracism and other forms of
(33:52):
oppression.
If we're not allowing space foryoung people to process those
things in their own authenticways and voices, we're doing an
incredible disservice to them inthat respect as well.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So I'm just a big fan of the arts and hip-hop is an
art and we just, we just can'tforget that, and and we can't
forget it on purpose, becausethe cost is too great- yeah, man
, there's so much there and I'mgoing to be thinking about that
for a long time and and I reallyam looking forward to kind of
reading what you, what you, youknow, put out, what you write
(34:29):
for us and and I and you know,thinking on that a lot more.
Um, one of the challenges Ithink that we've faced at the
arts alliance, uh, in advocatingfor the arts, uh, advocating
for the importance of the artsin funding, in arts education,
in for well-being in general, is, I think you know, we have, we,
(34:54):
we, we have the arts communitykind of as our main audience,
and that's that's superimportant.
Those are our people.
But one of the one of thechallenges that we've faced is,
I think, getting helping thegeneral public whether you know
whoever that is out there tounderstand that the arts are for
(35:17):
them, that you know, cause Ithink a lot of people kind of
maybe, when you think of thearts, a lot of folks might not
have that connection in theirhead to think, yeah, the arts,
that's for me, and so I thinkthis is why spoken word is is
such a beautiful art form, andhip hop too is because they sort
(35:38):
of began in community Right,grassroots we're talking about
here, and they remain one of themost accessible human art forms
like think about the rules of apoetry, slam, no props, no
music, no nudity or somethinglike that.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, it's just like you.
You, you don't need access toanything but yourself and a pair
of jeans.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, and everyone is welcome.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, because it circumvents that gatekeeping
that's been going on for so long.
You know, the idea of spokenword and of hip-hop, I believe,
are to give poetry back to thepeople where it really belongs.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah.
Is there anything else you'dlike to add or you'd like to
talk about?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know, not specifically.
I'm just super excited to yeah,have this opportunity to
converse with you about this and, yeah, reach your listenership.
Yeah, being approached, youknow, by SAA was, you know, a
real great opportunity for me.
I'm thankful for it and, yeah,grateful for all of the you know
(36:48):
beautiful things that lie inthe partnership ahead as well.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, no, it's been really great to have this
conversation with you and to getto know you, and I look forward
to you know we look forward toworking with you as we go
forward and, you know, seeingwhere this path takes us.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
yeah yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure, thank you
right on.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Thanks, cody okay peace cool
Speaker 1 (37:12):
the next episode of arts everywhere is coming soon,
so keep checking thesaskatchewan arts alliance
website and their social mediapages for more information and
if you're listening to thepodcast through your favorite
podcasting app, don't forget tohit the subscribe button so you
don't miss a single episode.
The Arts Everywhere theme musicis composed by Saskatchewan
(37:33):
musician Patrick Moon Bird,dancing to lo-fi from his album
entitled 2021.
Check out the show notes forlinks to Patrick's music.
The Saskatchewan Arts Alliancewould like to thank our funders,
sask Culture and Sask Arts,both of whom benefit from
lottery ticket sales throughSask Lotteries Proceeds from
(37:54):
Sask Lotteries fund culturalorganizations all across the
province, and we wouldn't beable to do the work we do
without your support.
See you next time.
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