November 15, 2024 • 33 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Reverend Chris Wylie, aka DJ Pastor Rock, a musician, songwriter, vocalist and pastor, living in Buffalo, NY.
During the interview, Rev. Chris Wylie mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section. Access Rev. Chris Wylie’s resources
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:54):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith Reverend Chris Wylie,
aka DJ Pastor Rock, a musician,songwriter, vocalist, and pastor
living in Buffalo, New York.
You can find the resources mentionedby Chris Wylie during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:15):
♪ DJ Pastor Rock sings "Bringing fire" ♪
Here comes the terror brought
Brought on like a storm
Dropping these rhymes like
You ain't heard before.
You think you're in power,
yeah, you think you're legit?
I'm here to tell you
(01:36):
Words aren't worth.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables,
I'm on the hunt.
Your rain is over,
There's a new day begun.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
(02:00):
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
That's what I said.
Building your empire,
Stepping on the dead,
But you're just another giant,
and I'm David slinging stones.
Got to hit the ground,that's how this story goes.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
Your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt.
Your rain is over,there's a new day begun.
(02:23):
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
An imperfect body, but I'm still down.
If you keep others out,I ain't messing around.
Hanging on the margins,I'm here and I'm proud.
(02:43):
Build me a ramp or I'llburn you to the ground.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire, fire, fire.
Bringing fire, bringing fire all over the earth.
If you come any closer,you're gonna get burned.
Cranking up the heata couple hundred degrees.
(03:05):
Holy flame thrower clear your eyes and you'll see.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt.
Your reign is over,there's a new day begun.
I'm bringing fire.Welcome to this new episode
♪ A firetruck siren marks the end of "Bringing fire" ♪
(03:31):
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Reverend Chris Wyle,
aka DJ Pastor Rock, who is a musician,
a songwriter, a vocalist, and a pastor
living in Buffalo, New York.Welcome, Chris.
Hi, Diane. It's great to be here with you today.
(03:53):
Thank you for being here.
Okay, so I always start episodesby asking about background.
So what about yours?
What brought you to music?
What brought you to everythingyou're doing as an activist in life?
Thank you.
Sure.
(04:13):
As you said, my name is Reverend Chris Wylie, DJ Pastor Rock, and I'm
a disabled queer wheelchair-using person
The thing that really brought me to music?I think community,
being a young disabled kid growing up
(04:36):
in in the '70s and really '80s by the time
I was entering my teens and things,
There was some exclusion,
and there were some things where societyreally didn't
try really so hard to include disabled people
(04:57):
the way that sometimes they do now.
So it was feeling a little bit on the outside, and...
But music was the one thing
that people couldn't take away from me.
So I had met some friends who were also
a little bit outsiders, and we just
(05:19):
started making music together.
I started a little bit on the bass,guitar, and then quickly
after that started playing drums,which is my main instrument
or was my main instrument for a long time.
And I've played that for maybe40 years, a little over, a long time.
(05:46):
And now I am playing bass again, too.
So I've come back to where I started.
So I started doing that and then just
going through and playing in bands, like in high school and
college and things.
And then along the way,got involved in some...
(06:10):
I went to school for broadcastingto do radio and things like that.
But I did some twists and turnsand done a few other things.
I've done corporate things. You justinterviewed Deshaymond, and they talked about
their work in the corporate world.I did that.
I was in banking for a long timeand then advertising and a pastor,
(06:35):
as we've already touched on.
So I've done a lot of those things
and then found my body, as I've gotten older,
has become a little bit more disabled.
And some of the things,just simple things, like
getting in and out of people's housesbecame more of a challenge and stuff.
And I found my way back into music.
(06:59):
And so that's what brings me here.
I started writing and recordingmy own music and things, which is
something that I wanted to do from backin the day, but it was a process.
We didn't have the technologythat we have now and all kinds of things.
So there's a lot of layers to that story.
(07:21):
So what's your musical style?
My musical style, I make
justice-oriented hip hop and rock
with accessible pop hooks.
That's my catch phrase.
It's like there's so many influences,again, growing up in the early days of
(07:44):
rap and things like that withPublic Enemy and some of those things.
That's a big influence becausethey were talking about their experience.
And a lot of it is centered on liberation,which is a big thing for me.
And so that is definitelyan influence there, but also rock.
(08:05):
But then one thing that Ithink is always funny where
I mentioned the accessible pop hooks.
If people don't want to listento your music, what's the point?
So I always add layers in.
And I was really influenced a lotby people like
(08:26):
Stevie Wonder - it came up on your recent podcast - and like
Songs in the Key of Life is a great album,
and Madonna, and Janet Jackson and
some of those people just making,again, the music accessible, making it so
people want to listen, catchy.
(08:48):
But like style-wise, I go all over.
A little bit of rap, a little bit of rock.
I'm working on a blues Americanaalbum right now.
I also play a little harmonica and things.
So, yeah.
Catchy, but I think one of the thingsthat you have in your music, too,
(09:12):
is that since you're an activist,in many ways, you are a disability rights
activist, you are an access activist,
you are a parenting disability activist.
So all this activism comes intoyour artistic practice, too, right?
(09:33):
For sure, that's true.
I've done a lot of things likethe Kairos Center in New York City,
I'm part of their artist collectiveand poor people's campaigns.
So a lot of justice for me, a lotof things go back to, not even a lot
of things, almost everything to megoes back to justice and inclusion.
(09:54):
I can only really tell my storyas a disabled queer artist,
but I also recognize thatother people have been historically
marginalized and that their storieshave value and need to be here, too.
And I'm not here to tell their story,but I'm here to help create space for
(10:17):
them to be able to also tell their story.
So I think a lot of that isreflected in my music.
But again, when you hear my music,there's always that theme
of justice and inclusion.
But mostly, I hope you hear my story.
You're hearing me tell it frommy perspective of what I go through,
(10:39):
what my daily life is, the obstaclesthat I have to overcome.
And while it's easy to get stuck thereon that side of the justice side
and say, look how bad it is.
I always try to have an arc.
This is where my pastor side comes out.
I always think that in the end, loveis what I think rises above all of that.
(11:05):
So I think I always try to go from
that side of things, the side of exclusion
toward inclusion, but also to community.
And I've had so many peoplein my life really be able
to have conversations with me andbe willing to work with me and so on.
(11:28):
I mean, that's all part of it, too, is like,
yeah, we need to fight and work for
access and inclusion and justice andliberation, but don't forget the love.
For sure.
(11:48):
Speaking of community,We are both part of one community,
which is special to both of us,
called RAMPD, recording artists andmusic professionals with disabilities.
Can you talk a bit abouthow you got into RAMPD
and what's your role in RAMPD today?
(12:10):
Yes, I'm on the Partnerships Committee.
I was the recent past co-chair,but I'm also the treasurer of RAMPD,
which is where I get to use a little bitof my banking background and things.
I was in commercial financeand things like that for a long time.
So that's helpful.
(12:31):
So yeah, I'm, as you said,a professional member of RAMPD.
I'm the treasurer, I'm on the Partnerships Committee.
and that has opened up doors to
a whole bunch of other things.
And it's a great space.
Now, how I got involved, I had gottento know Gaelynn Lea a little bit, who is
(12:51):
one of the cofounders along with Lachi.
And now I see Lachi all the time,but I didn't know Lachi back then,
but I knew Gaelynn, and I knew Gaelynnwas working on something,
and I wanted to know what it was.
I'm like, Gaelynn, what are you working on?Gaelynn, what are you working on?
Because I mentioned just earlierin the interview at the beginning,
(13:14):
exclusion and all that that I faced whenI was a young person coming up.
And that's one of the things that I loveso much about RAMPD is
that it's helpingto amplify and lift up disability culture
(13:35):
and create opportunities for disabledartists and others
to be involved in the music industry
and help clear some of those hurdles,
help build those rampsthat maybe I didn't have.
And I think that's what'sreally important to me.
(13:56):
I can't go back, but I can help tryto make somebody else's path
a little bit smoother going forward.
So it's a win-win.
I get to do the things I'm doing,but I to help other people along the way.
But yeah, a lot of that started withmy relationship with Gaelynn Lee,
who is amazing and wonderful,a great person and a really great,
(14:17):
talented musician as well.
Yes, she is.
A lot of musicians I know fromthis community are really amazing in
sharing their stories and also trying toconnect and help each other, which I really...
We don't see that every day in life.
So it's really appreciative.
(14:39):
I think we know what it's liketo be on the outside a lot of times,
to have to do the extra workthat sometimes we have to do.
We always have a little bit more to do,even on our good days,
even when people are trying, becausewe have to think about accessibility
and we have to think about how we're goingto be able to make things work in a way
(15:02):
that non-disabled people don'treally have to think about.
I often say We live in a worldnot built to include us.
So it's getting better.People are trying.
We're moving forward.
But we all know that - You and I are both wheelchair users.
So we know what that's like tobe rolling around and to have difficulty
(15:25):
getting in a building or, Oh,here's a flight of stairs or something.
We know all of those things,and we know where things
have maybe been difficult for us.
So I feel like we also work together
to say, Hey, it becomes more than just
(15:47):
about yourself, but again,about that community, about each other.
So we're all doing our own thingsand trying to keep those things going.
But also we're in it foreach other because
when one of us succeeds, we all succeed.
And I think that'sa really beautiful thing.
And also, just as a sidenote, thinking about all the people
(16:10):
I've met from RAMPD, including you,who knew there were so many of us?
It's amazing to see all these beautiful,wonderful, talented people.
Yeah, for sure.
Also, I think by seeing, as you say,by seeing the successes that
happen all around us, we meet frequentlyand we cheer for each other.
(16:35):
I think it pulls up to higher levels.
We really wanted to - Okay,so that gives me an idea.
Or when they connect us and say,Oh, by the way, this person is willing
to work with you and do that.
And that I find it's reallyan amazing community of musicians.
(17:00):
It is amazing.
I was just out in Vancouverfor the Vancouver Film Festival.
I was part of the Amp program,which is a program to also help create
opportunities and build connectionsfor marginalized musicians
and filmmakers and composers and such.
(17:21):
And that happened through RAMPD.
So again, those opportunitiesto just do really great things,
that was my opportunity be out.
But also while I was there, I was like,RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD.
Every other word, I think, and talkingabout it and sharing all those things.
(17:49):
So that was amazing, too.
You just came back from Vancouver,and you told me that
you are working on a new album right now.
Can you give us more details?
I am, yeah.
I just came back from Vancouver, again,the film festival, and
doing my things out there, which was incredible.
(18:11):
Great opportunity and met so many amazingpeople who are doing amazing things.
We have Tony Scudellari, who is
the person who is one of the people
who started the Amp program,is also one of the people who are
on the Board of Advisors for RAMPD.
(18:33):
So that is a great connection.
And then I was in New York Cityjust before that.
But before and during and amidst all that,and that's the fun of music, right?
Also working on an album that's ablues-based album, which is a little bit
different for me, but maybe a pocketthat I'll settle in for a little while.
(18:56):
I think there's some opportunities there.
And plus it's fun.
I get to do the things like play harmonicaa little bit and other things.
So I'm working on this album and tryingto have a little bit more of a wide feel
to the work, maybe not quite sopolished as some of the other things.
(19:18):
And again, I know your past guestwho I've already mentioned, Deshaymond,
touched on that, just leavea little bit of the flavor in there.
And so working on that, I just released,just because I was in a rush, I wanted to
get it out for the film festival.
There was a song called Underwaythat I just released.
(19:40):
And again, that was just tellingmy story as a disabled person
trying to navigate the world and things,and that's part of that project.
So I'm working on that.It's a little early.
I just finished a punkalbum with my band moshcats!.
So I always got something cooking.
(20:03):
I'm out here doing my thing.
Very good. That's bubbling projects.
It's great.
Ok so I have a question about what accessibility
in the arts, which is really what we try
(20:23):
to promote and try to show that it's a
possibility in our life to do some music.
For me, it's a mix between disability arts
or crip culture sometimes, things
like that, which is - I like the notion
of trying to punch in the face
(20:47):
some notions that people have.
Accessibility arts is one.
What does it mean for you to reallywork in that environment where
we promote accessibility in the arts?
You're really speakingmy language here now, for sure.
You know what I mean?
Liberation, again, is how I always phrase it.
(21:12):
And you're doing somethingthat's countercultural.
Inclusion and love itself,though, is countercultural.
It's punk.
That's how the punk album came to be.
People might think punk is somethingthat it isn't, but mostly punk is about
taking systems, usually of inequity,and flipping those tables around.
(21:34):
And I think that's what accessibility in
the arts really means to me is that,
hopefully people want to work with us.
A lot of people do want to work with us,but in those times that they don't maybe
want to work with us quite soreadily, we're going to push
the door open a little bit on themand we're going to come in anyway.
(21:59):
But again, I think I'd rather focus still
on the community and the love.
I think that's where accessibilityin the arts really makes a difference.
You have people outside,but there's all these voices, right?
And promoting accessibility in the arts.
(22:19):
I think it's really importantfor us to each have our story, a space
where we can each tell our storyand share our experience.
When I think about accessibility in the arts
and what that means to me,I really think about our collective
humanity, and how, whenone of our stories aren't being heard,
(22:42):
when we don't have the space to share,our story, our collective story,
our universal story is incomplete.
So when I think about accessibilityin the arts, that's what it means to me.
It's just just flipping around
the tables that say, only the people
(23:03):
in the center of the narrativewill have their story told.
Only the people at the top getall the resources.
But to flip that aroundand say it's our collective journey,
it's our collective experience.
Because I think when any ofour experiences, any of our stories
are left incomplete or out, then ourcollective story, again, is incomplete.
(23:28):
And that's what I think about whenI think about accessibility in the arts.
It's just a better telling of our story.
If I were writing a play,
it would be like if I only have
like scene one in the moviemight be the story that most people hear.
(23:49):
But you need the other two actsin the story to make it complete.
And that's bringingin all these other voices,
bringing all of our other experiences in.
And so, again, that's to me,that's what I think about when I think
about accessibility in the arts.
It's just a more completetelling of our story.
(24:10):
I like also the aspect of teaching
younger kids because these younger kids
not only will learn themselveshow to give their voice and how
to express themselves about anything.
It could be about their own identity,it could be about a disability, it could
be about a relationship to others.
(24:31):
But when you start small and you're guided in that, then your voice,
and your voice as a child isas important as a voice as an adult.
Really to push them and to accompany them.
Then if you do it in a way that really
(24:52):
triggers some reflection to the children,
then this will go home with them,and they will be the ones guiding
the adults on important conversations.
Absolutely.
And they become adults later.
And so you're openingup those channels for communication,
(25:12):
for them to be able to have the tools.
That's what I love about your work, toopen up the channels and give the tools
provide the tools for them to be ableto create and to experience and to be
able to express themselves.
Because I can say things in musicthat I can't really say or that I might
(25:33):
have difficulty saying without music.
If I put something in a song, it's fuller.
And it's also people hear itin a different way because you put a beat
behind it and you give ita hook and everything.
And you're starting from the beginningwith the kids and giving them those tools
(25:59):
and saying, Hey, here this is your world,too, and I want to hear your story.
And there's something really powerful in that because
it's easy to overlook people.
It's particularly easy to overlookchildren and say, They're just kids.
But when they recognize that you careand that you want to hear them, too,
(26:24):
that's such a powerful motivator.
Like you said, they go home and they telltheir parents and they tell others, but
then they grow up and it inspires them.
I mean, I had people help me whenI was a younger child and really listened
to me when I was a younger child.
(26:45):
That really changed the waythat I look at the world.
It made me say, Well, I hadall these people help me and
share with me and help me find my voice.
I want to go and do that for others.
Yeah.
It also comes with the idea of love thatyou were talking about at the beginning.
(27:06):
Yeah, for sure.
But that is really whatI love about your work.
Again, you're starting right at the basicsand really saying,
this world can seem so daunting, music can seem so daunting, but really, it isn't.
Really, there's all these opportunitiesjust to sit down and start, and you don't
(27:29):
know where it's going to take you,but it could take you someplace magical.
It can take you amazing, amazing places.
It take you where we're sitting herehaving a conversation.
A few years ago, we didn'tknow each other, but now we do.
We're both doing great things,and all that's because of music.
(27:50):
Yeah.And plus, they play.
They have fun.
It's great.
Yeah, and you're right.It should be fun, right?
It's joyful.
If music is not fun,you're doing something wrong.
Okay, so I have a last questionfor you, and it's about these people
who might have inspired you,impacted you during your musical career.
(28:16):
If you have one or two peopleto think of, who would it be and why?
That's a hard question to answerbecause there's so many people.
I can tell you aboutmy influences early on.
I got involved in recording studio work
(28:37):
back in the early 1990s.
That was where I went from just playingdrums, trying to early write and record
my own stuff and try to figure thatjourney out and get involved in that.
So my friend in Buffalo Music Hallof Fame, Geno McManus,
was a huge influence there.
But also just well-known musicians
(29:00):
like Johnny Cash, like Brian Wilson
of the Beach Boys, like GeorgeMartin, who did the Beatles work
and everything and all that.
But then I also think about the people whohave impacted me along the way and who
have helped me really explore and
(29:24):
build my own music and how that happened.
I have a really close friend, MC Lars,who's an amazing person, and I met him
outside of a show where he was
part of a show of a band that was like
an old ska punk band, and he's a rapper.
But we started having a conversation,and he was like, Write what you know.
(29:49):
That was early.
And then there's another friend,Sam Baker, who's
an amazing disabled musician also.
I said, I happen to be ableto sit down with him also
at one of his shows one day.
And I said, I have all these ideas,but I'm having trouble
(30:11):
bringing them into life.
How do I do that as a disabled musician?
And he said something really simple.
I use Logic now as my DAWto be able to write and record.
And I use different programs, but alsolive instruments and things, too.
But he said, I just use GarageBand,which is like the free version
(30:36):
of the recording software from Apple.
And so we had a conversation about that,and that was a huge influence on me.
And Gaelynn Lea, who I already mentioned,again, a huge influence on me.
Mary Gauthier, another queer artistwho's not disabled that I know of,
(30:56):
but is an adoptee,and that's part of my story, too.
And so her work and being able
to encounter her and then
just so many other peoplewho I've worked with along the way.
But again, and Lachi.Lachi comes up, right?
For a lot of us in RAMPD.
It's Gaelynn and Lachi, butso many others, like you, the work
(31:21):
you're doing is an inspiration to me.It really is.
It's amazing.I love it.
And Precious Perez.
And Namel TapWaterz Norris.
There's so many people.
I could just go on.James Ian.
I could just nameeverybody in RAMPD, I think.
(31:44):
Just, again, being able to be aroundand share and see those cool things.
Sometimes you get to havethese conversations and say,
how can we work together?Or how can we share?
Or what can we do?
Or what are you doing?
And then it gives an idea.
It sparks an idea.
(32:05):
I've seen you use different thingsand say, I don't have that,
but I do have this.
And so how can I make this work to be able
to do some of those things and all that?It's really cool.
Well, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
(32:26):
I learned a lot of different things.
I knew you in some aspects,but there are some aspects
that really it's always a pleasureto talk about when we get together.
So, yeah, thank you so much.
Diane, so good to be with you.Thank you.
Well, have a great day and talk soon..
(32:47):
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:54):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith Reverend Chris Wylie,
aka DJ Pastor Rock, a musician,songwriter, vocalist, and pastor
living in Buffalo, New York.
You can find the resources mentionedby Chris Wylie during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:15):
♪ DJ Pastor Rock sings "Bringing fire" ♪
Here comes the terror brought
Brought on like a storm
Dropping these rhymes like
You ain't heard before.
You think you're in power,
yeah, you think you're legit?
I'm here to tell you
(01:36):
Words aren't worth.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables,
I'm on the hunt.
Your rain is over,
There's a new day begun.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
(02:00):
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
That's what I said.
Building your empire,
Stepping on the dead,
But you're just another giant,
and I'm David slinging stones.
Got to hit the ground,that's how this story goes.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,
Your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt.
Your rain is over,there's a new day begun.
(02:23):
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
An imperfect body, but I'm still down.
If you keep others out,I ain't messing around.
Hanging on the margins,I'm here and I'm proud.
(02:43):
Build me a ramp or I'llburn you to the ground.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire.
I'm bringing fire, fire, fire, fire, fire.
Bringing fire, bringing fire all over the earth.
If you come any closer,you're gonna get burned.
Cranking up the heata couple hundred degrees.
(03:05):
Holy flame thrower clear your eyes and you'll see.
Bringing fire, bringing fire,your time is done.
Sound the alarm and get ready to run.
Flipping over tables, I'm on the hunt.
Your reign is over,there's a new day begun.
I'm bringing fire.Welcome to this new episode
♪ A firetruck siren marks the end of "Bringing fire" ♪
(03:31):
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Reverend Chris Wyle,
aka DJ Pastor Rock, who is a musician,
a songwriter, a vocalist, and a pastor
living in Buffalo, New York.Welcome, Chris.
Hi, Diane. It's great to be here with you today.
(03:53):
Thank you for being here.
Okay, so I always start episodesby asking about background.
So what about yours?
What brought you to music?
What brought you to everythingyou're doing as an activist in life?
Thank you.
Sure.
(04:13):
As you said, my name is Reverend Chris Wylie, DJ Pastor Rock, and I'm
a disabled queer wheelchair-using person
The thing that really brought me to music?I think community,
being a young disabled kid growing up
(04:36):
in in the '70s and really '80s by the time
I was entering my teens and things,
There was some exclusion,
and there were some things where societyreally didn't
try really so hard to include disabled people
(04:57):
the way that sometimes they do now.
So it was feeling a little bit on the outside, and...
But music was the one thing
that people couldn't take away from me.
So I had met some friends who were also
a little bit outsiders, and we just
(05:19):
started making music together.
I started a little bit on the bass,guitar, and then quickly
after that started playing drums,which is my main instrument
or was my main instrument for a long time.
And I've played that for maybe40 years, a little over, a long time.
(05:46):
And now I am playing bass again, too.
So I've come back to where I started.
So I started doing that and then just
going through and playing in bands, like in high school and
college and things.
And then along the way,got involved in some...
(06:10):
I went to school for broadcastingto do radio and things like that.
But I did some twists and turnsand done a few other things.
I've done corporate things. You justinterviewed Deshaymond, and they talked about
their work in the corporate world.I did that.
I was in banking for a long timeand then advertising and a pastor,
(06:35):
as we've already touched on.
So I've done a lot of those things
and then found my body, as I've gotten older,
has become a little bit more disabled.
And some of the things,just simple things, like
getting in and out of people's housesbecame more of a challenge and stuff.
And I found my way back into music.
(06:59):
And so that's what brings me here.
I started writing and recordingmy own music and things, which is
something that I wanted to do from backin the day, but it was a process.
We didn't have the technologythat we have now and all kinds of things.
So there's a lot of layers to that story.
(07:21):
So what's your musical style?
My musical style, I make
justice-oriented hip hop and rock
with accessible pop hooks.
That's my catch phrase.
It's like there's so many influences,again, growing up in the early days of
(07:44):
rap and things like that withPublic Enemy and some of those things.
That's a big influence becausethey were talking about their experience.
And a lot of it is centered on liberation,which is a big thing for me.
And so that is definitelyan influence there, but also rock.
(08:05):
But then one thing that Ithink is always funny where
I mentioned the accessible pop hooks.
If people don't want to listento your music, what's the point?
So I always add layers in.
And I was really influenced a lotby people like
(08:26):
Stevie Wonder - it came up on your recent podcast - and like
Songs in the Key of Life is a great album,
and Madonna, and Janet Jackson and
some of those people just making,again, the music accessible, making it so
people want to listen, catchy.
(08:48):
But like style-wise, I go all over.
A little bit of rap, a little bit of rock.
I'm working on a blues Americanaalbum right now.
I also play a little harmonica and things.
So, yeah.
Catchy, but I think one of the thingsthat you have in your music, too,
(09:12):
is that since you're an activist,in many ways, you are a disability rights
activist, you are an access activist,
you are a parenting disability activist.
So all this activism comes intoyour artistic practice, too, right?
(09:33):
For sure, that's true.
I've done a lot of things likethe Kairos Center in New York City,
I'm part of their artist collectiveand poor people's campaigns.
So a lot of justice for me, a lotof things go back to, not even a lot
of things, almost everything to megoes back to justice and inclusion.
(09:54):
I can only really tell my storyas a disabled queer artist,
but I also recognize thatother people have been historically
marginalized and that their storieshave value and need to be here, too.
And I'm not here to tell their story,but I'm here to help create space for
(10:17):
them to be able to also tell their story.
So I think a lot of that isreflected in my music.
But again, when you hear my music,there's always that theme
of justice and inclusion.
But mostly, I hope you hear my story.
You're hearing me tell it frommy perspective of what I go through,
(10:39):
what my daily life is, the obstaclesthat I have to overcome.
And while it's easy to get stuck thereon that side of the justice side
and say, look how bad it is.
I always try to have an arc.
This is where my pastor side comes out.
I always think that in the end, loveis what I think rises above all of that.
(11:05):
So I think I always try to go from
that side of things, the side of exclusion
toward inclusion, but also to community.
And I've had so many peoplein my life really be able
to have conversations with me andbe willing to work with me and so on.
(11:28):
I mean, that's all part of it, too, is like,
yeah, we need to fight and work for
access and inclusion and justice andliberation, but don't forget the love.
For sure.
(11:48):
Speaking of community,We are both part of one community,
which is special to both of us,
called RAMPD, recording artists andmusic professionals with disabilities.
Can you talk a bit abouthow you got into RAMPD
and what's your role in RAMPD today?
(12:10):
Yes, I'm on the Partnerships Committee.
I was the recent past co-chair,but I'm also the treasurer of RAMPD,
which is where I get to use a little bitof my banking background and things.
I was in commercial financeand things like that for a long time.
So that's helpful.
(12:31):
So yeah, I'm, as you said,a professional member of RAMPD.
I'm the treasurer, I'm on the Partnerships Committee.
and that has opened up doors to
a whole bunch of other things.
And it's a great space.
Now, how I got involved, I had gottento know Gaelynn Lea a little bit, who is
(12:51):
one of the cofounders along with Lachi.
And now I see Lachi all the time,but I didn't know Lachi back then,
but I knew Gaelynn, and I knew Gaelynnwas working on something,
and I wanted to know what it was.
I'm like, Gaelynn, what are you working on?Gaelynn, what are you working on?
Because I mentioned just earlierin the interview at the beginning,
(13:14):
exclusion and all that that I faced whenI was a young person coming up.
And that's one of the things that I loveso much about RAMPD is
that it's helpingto amplify and lift up disability culture
(13:35):
and create opportunities for disabledartists and others
to be involved in the music industry
and help clear some of those hurdles,
help build those rampsthat maybe I didn't have.
And I think that's what'sreally important to me.
(13:56):
I can't go back, but I can help tryto make somebody else's path
a little bit smoother going forward.
So it's a win-win.
I get to do the things I'm doing,but I to help other people along the way.
But yeah, a lot of that started withmy relationship with Gaelynn Lee,
who is amazing and wonderful,a great person and a really great,
(14:17):
talented musician as well.
Yes, she is.
A lot of musicians I know fromthis community are really amazing in
sharing their stories and also trying toconnect and help each other, which I really...
We don't see that every day in life.
So it's really appreciative.
(14:39):
I think we know what it's liketo be on the outside a lot of times,
to have to do the extra workthat sometimes we have to do.
We always have a little bit more to do,even on our good days,
even when people are trying, becausewe have to think about accessibility
and we have to think about how we're goingto be able to make things work in a way
(15:02):
that non-disabled people don'treally have to think about.
I often say We live in a worldnot built to include us.
So it's getting better.People are trying.
We're moving forward.
But we all know that - You and I are both wheelchair users.
So we know what that's like tobe rolling around and to have difficulty
(15:25):
getting in a building or, Oh,here's a flight of stairs or something.
We know all of those things,and we know where things
have maybe been difficult for us.
So I feel like we also work together
to say, Hey, it becomes more than just
(15:47):
about yourself, but again,about that community, about each other.
So we're all doing our own thingsand trying to keep those things going.
But also we're in it foreach other because
when one of us succeeds, we all succeed.
And I think that'sa really beautiful thing.
And also, just as a sidenote, thinking about all the people
(16:10):
I've met from RAMPD, including you,who knew there were so many of us?
It's amazing to see all these beautiful,wonderful, talented people.
Yeah, for sure.
Also, I think by seeing, as you say,by seeing the successes that
happen all around us, we meet frequentlyand we cheer for each other.
(16:35):
I think it pulls up to higher levels.
We really wanted to - Okay,so that gives me an idea.
Or when they connect us and say,Oh, by the way, this person is willing
to work with you and do that.
And that I find it's reallyan amazing community of musicians.
(17:00):
It is amazing.
I was just out in Vancouverfor the Vancouver Film Festival.
I was part of the Amp program,which is a program to also help create
opportunities and build connectionsfor marginalized musicians
and filmmakers and composers and such.
(17:21):
And that happened through RAMPD.
So again, those opportunitiesto just do really great things,
that was my opportunity be out.
But also while I was there, I was like,RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD, RAMPD.
Every other word, I think, and talkingabout it and sharing all those things.
(17:49):
So that was amazing, too.
You just came back from Vancouver,and you told me that
you are working on a new album right now.
Can you give us more details?
I am, yeah.
I just came back from Vancouver, again,the film festival, and
doing my things out there, which was incredible.
(18:11):
Great opportunity and met so many amazingpeople who are doing amazing things.
We have Tony Scudellari, who is
the person who is one of the people
who started the Amp program,is also one of the people who are
on the Board of Advisors for RAMPD.
(18:33):
So that is a great connection.
And then I was in New York Cityjust before that.
But before and during and amidst all that,and that's the fun of music, right?
Also working on an album that's ablues-based album, which is a little bit
different for me, but maybe a pocketthat I'll settle in for a little while.
(18:56):
I think there's some opportunities there.
And plus it's fun.
I get to do the things like play harmonicaa little bit and other things.
So I'm working on this album and tryingto have a little bit more of a wide feel
to the work, maybe not quite sopolished as some of the other things.
(19:18):
And again, I know your past guestwho I've already mentioned, Deshaymond,
touched on that, just leavea little bit of the flavor in there.
And so working on that, I just released,just because I was in a rush, I wanted to
get it out for the film festival.
There was a song called Underwaythat I just released.
(19:40):
And again, that was just tellingmy story as a disabled person
trying to navigate the world and things,and that's part of that project.
So I'm working on that.It's a little early.
I just finished a punkalbum with my band moshcats!.
So I always got something cooking.
(20:03):
I'm out here doing my thing.
Very good. That's bubbling projects.
It's great.
Ok so I have a question about what accessibility
in the arts, which is really what we try
(20:23):
to promote and try to show that it's a
possibility in our life to do some music.
For me, it's a mix between disability arts
or crip culture sometimes, things
like that, which is - I like the notion
of trying to punch in the face
(20:47):
some notions that people have.
Accessibility arts is one.
What does it mean for you to reallywork in that environment where
we promote accessibility in the arts?
You're really speakingmy language here now, for sure.
You know what I mean?
Liberation, again, is how I always phrase it.
(21:12):
And you're doing somethingthat's countercultural.
Inclusion and love itself,though, is countercultural.
It's punk.
That's how the punk album came to be.
People might think punk is somethingthat it isn't, but mostly punk is about
taking systems, usually of inequity,and flipping those tables around.
(21:34):
And I think that's what accessibility in
the arts really means to me is that,
hopefully people want to work with us.
A lot of people do want to work with us,but in those times that they don't maybe
want to work with us quite soreadily, we're going to push
the door open a little bit on themand we're going to come in anyway.
(21:59):
But again, I think I'd rather focus still
on the community and the love.
I think that's where accessibilityin the arts really makes a difference.
You have people outside,but there's all these voices, right?
And promoting accessibility in the arts.
(22:19):
I think it's really importantfor us to each have our story, a space
where we can each tell our storyand share our experience.
When I think about accessibility in the arts
and what that means to me,I really think about our collective
humanity, and how, whenone of our stories aren't being heard,
(22:42):
when we don't have the space to share,our story, our collective story,
our universal story is incomplete.
So when I think about accessibilityin the arts, that's what it means to me.
It's just just flipping around
the tables that say, only the people
(23:03):
in the center of the narrativewill have their story told.
Only the people at the top getall the resources.
But to flip that aroundand say it's our collective journey,
it's our collective experience.
Because I think when any ofour experiences, any of our stories
are left incomplete or out, then ourcollective story, again, is incomplete.
(23:28):
And that's what I think about whenI think about accessibility in the arts.
It's just a better telling of our story.
If I were writing a play,
it would be like if I only have
like scene one in the moviemight be the story that most people hear.
(23:49):
But you need the other two actsin the story to make it complete.
And that's bringingin all these other voices,
bringing all of our other experiences in.
And so, again, that's to me,that's what I think about when I think
about accessibility in the arts.
It's just a more completetelling of our story.
(24:10):
I like also the aspect of teaching
younger kids because these younger kids
not only will learn themselveshow to give their voice and how
to express themselves about anything.
It could be about their own identity,it could be about a disability, it could
be about a relationship to others.
(24:31):
But when you start small and you're guided in that, then your voice,
and your voice as a child isas important as a voice as an adult.
Really to push them and to accompany them.
Then if you do it in a way that really
(24:52):
triggers some reflection to the children,
then this will go home with them,and they will be the ones guiding
the adults on important conversations.
Absolutely.
And they become adults later.
And so you're openingup those channels for communication,
(25:12):
for them to be able to have the tools.
That's what I love about your work, toopen up the channels and give the tools
provide the tools for them to be ableto create and to experience and to be
able to express themselves.
Because I can say things in musicthat I can't really say or that I might
(25:33):
have difficulty saying without music.
If I put something in a song, it's fuller.
And it's also people hear itin a different way because you put a beat
behind it and you give ita hook and everything.
And you're starting from the beginningwith the kids and giving them those tools
(25:59):
and saying, Hey, here this is your world,too, and I want to hear your story.
And there's something really powerful in that because
it's easy to overlook people.
It's particularly easy to overlookchildren and say, They're just kids.
But when they recognize that you careand that you want to hear them, too,
(26:24):
that's such a powerful motivator.
Like you said, they go home and they telltheir parents and they tell others, but
then they grow up and it inspires them.
I mean, I had people help me whenI was a younger child and really listened
to me when I was a younger child.
(26:45):
That really changed the waythat I look at the world.
It made me say, Well, I hadall these people help me and
share with me and help me find my voice.
I want to go and do that for others.
Yeah.
It also comes with the idea of love thatyou were talking about at the beginning.
(27:06):
Yeah, for sure.
But that is really whatI love about your work.
Again, you're starting right at the basicsand really saying,
this world can seem so daunting, music can seem so daunting, but really, it isn't.
Really, there's all these opportunitiesjust to sit down and start, and you don't
(27:29):
know where it's going to take you,but it could take you someplace magical.
It can take you amazing, amazing places.
It take you where we're sitting herehaving a conversation.
A few years ago, we didn'tknow each other, but now we do.
We're both doing great things,and all that's because of music.
(27:50):
Yeah.And plus, they play.
They have fun.
It's great.
Yeah, and you're right.It should be fun, right?
It's joyful.
If music is not fun,you're doing something wrong.
Okay, so I have a last questionfor you, and it's about these people
who might have inspired you,impacted you during your musical career.
(28:16):
If you have one or two peopleto think of, who would it be and why?
That's a hard question to answerbecause there's so many people.
I can tell you aboutmy influences early on.
I got involved in recording studio work
(28:37):
back in the early 1990s.
That was where I went from just playingdrums, trying to early write and record
my own stuff and try to figure thatjourney out and get involved in that.
So my friend in Buffalo Music Hallof Fame, Geno McManus,
was a huge influence there.
But also just well-known musicians
(29:00):
like Johnny Cash, like Brian Wilson
of the Beach Boys, like GeorgeMartin, who did the Beatles work
and everything and all that.
But then I also think about the people whohave impacted me along the way and who
have helped me really explore and
(29:24):
build my own music and how that happened.
I have a really close friend, MC Lars,who's an amazing person, and I met him
outside of a show where he was
part of a show of a band that was like
an old ska punk band, and he's a rapper.
But we started having a conversation,and he was like, Write what you know.
(29:49):
That was early.
And then there's another friend,Sam Baker, who's
an amazing disabled musician also.
I said, I happen to be ableto sit down with him also
at one of his shows one day.
And I said, I have all these ideas,but I'm having trouble
(30:11):
bringing them into life.
How do I do that as a disabled musician?
And he said something really simple.
I use Logic now as my DAWto be able to write and record.
And I use different programs, but alsolive instruments and things, too.
But he said, I just use GarageBand,which is like the free version
(30:36):
of the recording software from Apple.
And so we had a conversation about that,and that was a huge influence on me.
And Gaelynn Lea, who I already mentioned,again, a huge influence on me.
Mary Gauthier, another queer artistwho's not disabled that I know of,
(30:56):
but is an adoptee,and that's part of my story, too.
And so her work and being able
to encounter her and then
just so many other peoplewho I've worked with along the way.
But again, and Lachi.Lachi comes up, right?
For a lot of us in RAMPD.
It's Gaelynn and Lachi, butso many others, like you, the work
(31:21):
you're doing is an inspiration to me.It really is.
It's amazing.I love it.
And Precious Perez.
And Namel TapWaterz Norris.
There's so many people.
I could just go on.James Ian.
I could just nameeverybody in RAMPD, I think.
(31:44):
Just, again, being able to be aroundand share and see those cool things.
Sometimes you get to havethese conversations and say,
how can we work together?Or how can we share?
Or what can we do?
Or what are you doing?
And then it gives an idea.
It sparks an idea.
(32:05):
I've seen you use different thingsand say, I don't have that,
but I do have this.
And so how can I make this work to be able
to do some of those things and all that?It's really cool.
Well, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
(32:26):
I learned a lot of different things.
I knew you in some aspects,but there are some aspects
that really it's always a pleasureto talk about when we get together.
So, yeah, thank you so much.
Diane, so good to be with you.Thank you.
Well, have a great day and talk soon..
(32:47):
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