January 17, 2025 • 65 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Kemal Gorey, a media composer and accessibility advocate living in Istanbul in Turkey.
During the interview, Kemal Gorey mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section. Access Kemal Gorey’s resources
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith Kemal Gorey, who is a media composer
and accessibility advocateliving in Istanbul in Turkey.
You can find the resources mentionedby Kemal Gorey during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Playful Cat, by Kemal Gorey ♪
(02:37):
♪ End of Playful Cat ♪
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Kemal Gorey, who is amedia composer and accessibility advocate
living in Istanbul, in Turkey.Welcome, Kemal.
(02:58):
Thank you so much, Diane.
It's great to be here andyour pronunciation is excellent.
Thank you.
Okay, so I would like to start thisepisode by asking you about yourself,
about who you are, what brought you to music,
what brought you to being a media composer,
(03:20):
So tell me more about you.
Who are you and what led you to music?
As you said, I'm Kemal Gorey.
I'm a professional mediacomposer, classical trained musician.
I identify as blind.
I think it's hard to say, Diane,what was my motivation because I started
(03:42):
this journey when I was four, I assume,
because my uncle, who is a singer and songwriter,
who has a really accomplishedrock band in my country, Turkey,
he is one of the legendsof the rock history in my country.
Also, my father is a guitar player.
(04:05):
I think I'm born into that environment.
There were always instruments,there were always music in the center
of my family's daily life.
And I think that habit,that environment shaped me
because when I was a little kid,
(04:27):
I remember that my two beloved go-to toys,
favorite toys, let's say, is one of my father's guitar, which stands right behind of me,
and the stereo, which I can play some music with it,
with CDs and cassettes.
Maybe the younger generation doesn'tknow what it means, but cassettes are
(04:48):
the go-to medium for us to consumethe music before all this Spotify thing
and also before the Napster.Nobody knows Napster.
I'm a nerd.Sorry for that.
My first...
How can I say?
My first memory about musicthat I was on the stage when I was four,
(05:08):
and singing a song with my uncle's band
in a really big concert area with the crowd,
everybody shouting the band's name.
I was singing the song when I was four.
That was my very first experienceas a professional and very first memory
about my music journey.
(05:29):
Then it all started with the piano lessonsbecause I fell in love with piano
and I chose it as a career.
When I was in high school, I went toFine Arts High School in Turkey,
and I moved on to the college,again, Fine Arts, a music school.
(05:50):
I've always wanted to be a musician,and I've always wanted to be
a composer, a film composer, actually.
I think I tell this story everywhere,but when I was a kid, and it was '90s,
and the televisions are smalland the resolution was a a joke, in '90s.
It was hard to me to catch every micromimics, gestures, because now we have
(06:15):
this huge 4K screens with the really 10bit record, that footage and everything.
But we don't have that in the past.
We didn't have that in the past.
When I was trying to catch the mimics orwhere the story will go,
if I somehowmiss a microgesture or something,
(06:40):
the score could help me to understand itbecause score, basically,
the music score translates the storyto the music, which is a no-brainer.
But there's a secret function in it.
It can serve as an accessibility featurebecause let's say in a romantic scene,
(07:00):
if the music gives a hint, let's say,of a dark theme, it foreshadows
something will happen bad inthe short term, in the story.
If you couldn't get that from the picture,you can get that from the score.
That was my trusted guide when I waswatching because I'm visually impaired.
(07:26):
Yes, I know I always say I identify as blindbecause it sounds more clear to me.
I think we shouldn'tstruggle too much with the terminology.
It's not studies.
Yes, technically, scientifically,I'm visually impaired, but it's
no big deal to say that I'm blindbecause we're in the same universe
(07:49):
as the visual disabled community.
Back to the topic,the film scores were my trusted guide,
and I always wanted to be the onewho creates
that score with the whole orchestraand the whole sense with the piano,
different instruments,and I have been always curious about
(08:10):
learning different instruments because Iwant to know, I want to understand how they -
how they work, basically,how a violin works, how a trumpet works,
or how a timpani works, even a vocal,because vocal also an instrument,
one of the most complicated ones,and understanding the mechanics
(08:34):
of the vocal, it's tricky.
That's why, for example,I majored opera singing in college.
Yes, I can sing some songs fromthe Mozart's Don Giovanni opera,
[laughs]or it's another story.
(08:55):
Then, I went to college.
It's a completely different beat.
Let's say, training, education
in Turkey can be really a challenge
if you have a disability.
Let's say it was because I have an ideaabout the current situation,
(09:15):
but I'm not experiencing it.
That's why I would like tosay that it was a great challenge
if you want to be educatedand if you have a disability in Turkey.
Solving the problems, inventing
some methods, it becomes a daily habit
(09:35):
for a disabled student, evenwhen you were six or seven years old.
But in the end of the day,when I graduated from college,
I knew what I wanted to do,but life had different plans for me.
I worked as an active musician,a recording artist, a live musician,
(09:58):
and also an arranger, a ghostwriter.
In Turkey, I had done many things tobe able to survive, to be able to build a
career, build a life a sustainable life.
At some point, I decided to make a shiftin my career, and I decided to
do what I really want to do.
(10:20):
It's all about killingthe what-if person in your mind,
because there's always a what-if person.
What if I'm not talented enough?
What if I'm not professionalor experienced enough, what if
the things that I know are all wrong,all If I'm all mistaken about myself.
(10:40):
When you kill that personality in yourmind, the what if guy,
I would like to call it that way,then you can become anything you like
because thegreatest barriers that we face,
not the accessibility challenges,not the ableism, but this passive
internalized ableism, it's what-if,that you build in your mind,
(11:05):
thanks to people's opinions about you.
Thanks to people, how peopletreat you on daily basis.
But when you kill that person, killthat character, kill that imagination
in your mind, then it all wides openbecause there's no barriers then.
Accessibility problems?
Yeah, I know that.
(11:26):
I'm dealing with themsince when I was a kid.
Yeah, ableism, I know that too.
I'm dealing with thosealso since when I was kid.
These are not problems at all.
Yes, these are important problems,but I know how to deal with them.
I know how to fight with them.
I only didn't know how to fight withthat what-if person in my head.
(11:48):
Now I beaten it, I can do anything I wantbecause there's no barriers.
I decided to become a media composer.
I decided to build a career in the Statesand in the Hollywood, ultimately,
and I am in that path right now.
So, once you killed the what-if in yourself,you stopped being a ghost writer
(12:09):
and you became a composer with the namethat you're carrying right now.
Yeah, we can say it that way also.
But I think even if I know thatI want to do something with my name,
I don't think I will find any chancein Turkey as a media composer
(12:31):
because I didn't specificallyrequest it to be a ghostwriter.
That was the only way that I can scoremusic to a motion picture and get paid.
That was the...
How can I say?
That was the conditions for mein the past because
they only offer me to be a ghostwriterbecause somehow the production company is
(12:56):
either ashamed or terrified to work with acomposer with a visual disability
because even they can't understand howcan I synch the music to the picture.
Even I say that, Okay,I can see the picture.
I have a full spectrum vision.
Yes, I can see things while I'm walkingbecause it's the part of
(13:18):
retinitis pigmentosa, part of the nystagmus.
These are the medical conditionsand has some effects on my eyes,
so I can't see properly, which doesn'tmean that I can't work with a picture.
Even a blind person canwork with a picture.
Maybe they can use a sight assistantor something, or they can basically
(13:40):
use the script and time codes.
Anything can possible.
It's all about how weunderstand the matter.
Do we need some...
Are we open-minded or not?
Do we need a great musicto this picture or not?
But the production companiesin the past, maybe the situation
(14:01):
is the same, I'm not sure,always wondering to work with a person
who's similar, who look familiar to them.
Let's put it that way.
What was the triggering point?
When did you decide, Okay, I'm going to
submit my own media music score, and I'm
(14:23):
going to compose for films and submit it?
Actually, you know what?
Two things has triggered me.
First, I had a cataract surgery,and it was a high-risky one.
There was a great chance that I
lose all the sight. But I found a legendary
surgeon, and he took careof the process without any problems.
(14:47):
That things change your mentality.
Okay, I survived that.
I survived from that.
So maybe I can do morein my life because I survived.
It was highly stressful,but nothing bad happened.
Maybe nothing bad happenin my career also.
But ultimately, it all started with a YouTube video.
(15:08):
It was summer, COVID,first year of the pandemic.
I was in the YouTube becausethat's what I do as a nerd.
I will always search some better tutorial
videos about music, sound technologies,
media composition, and all that stuff.
(15:28):
I saw a video of a guy,a white American guy who says that he is
the founder of a foundationcalled Able Artist Foundationn, also
says that he is also visually impaired,and he's a professional media composer.
In the video, that said that, Okay,you can be a member of our foundation.
(15:50):
Also, we have a contest.
If you want to submit your music,we will review it and we will
choose some of you as winners.
I think in that very moment, I decided
to change all my attitude because there's
(16:10):
a person 10,000 miles away from my homewho is a professional media composer
who has a visual disabilitycalled retinitis pigmentosa.
His name is Stephen Letnes,and he is the CEO and founder
of the Able Artist Foundation.
I decided to submit my trackbecause I wasn't alone anymore.
(16:32):
I'm not the only kind of my species.There are others.
So I decided to submit my trackand see what happens.
In that moment, I, utterly,I decided to kill that what-if person
because, okay, there are more.
I found my familiars now.
(16:55):
I don't have to be alone.I don't have to tell.
I don't have to craft my path.
I can basically connect with them.
I can basically find my community,which I've always been seeking out.
I submit my tracks.
And two months later, I was named as theGrand Prize winner, and it all started.
(17:20):
Congratulations.
Thank you. It was four years ago,but still excited about it.
Since then, I'm the one who...
I'm one of the jury members.
[Laughs.]
Okay, so what happened next?
What happened after you won this contest?
Actually, I've been talkingwith some of my friends about this, and
(17:44):
normally I have another answer to that,but let me give you a brand new one.
After that, actually,there was an interview with Stephen,
Stephen Letnes, for the Able Artist Foundation's fundraiser.
Most part of the prizes are the softwares.
(18:06):
I received some of the great complimentsof the software or, let's say,
sound set developers that I'vebeen following in my entire life.
The other prize is connectingwith a library music publisher.
That's what I was looking for by myself.
(18:28):
It came to me.
It came to me.
I submit some of my tracksto that publisher.
We set an interview, we set a meeting,and they want to onboard all of my music.
I don't have to do anything.
I don't have to compose new music.
They wanted to onboard my existing tracks.It was great.
(18:50):
I send it through.
Then I started working some new musicpacks for that publisher, Hitlist Music.
I submitted some tracks.
They decided to onboard them also.
Then it all started.
Then I started I don't jump intoeach opportunity that I see.
(19:13):
I rejected to say no to anything.
The yes became the default answer for me.
Hey, do you want to do this?Yes.
You want to be in this project?Yes.
There's no no becausethere's no need to say no.
There's no need to be hesitated.
I know that I can do that.
Wasn't that stressful?Highly stressful.
(19:35):
I always doubt myself because it'sa part of being a musician.
This relationship is toxic with music.
You never can say that,Okay, this sounds good.
No matter if you're a concertist, aninstrumentalist, a songwriter, a singer,
a composer, it will be never done.
(19:56):
As you perfectly know thatit can't be good enough for us.
Our work can't be goodenough for ourselves.
But I stopped worrying about that.
Then I started to think, Okay,people, the reviewers, the client
can say to me, It's not working.
(20:16):
I do what I can do.I give my best.
Then we'll see what will happen.
Changing that mindsetopens all the doors for me.
In this interview with Stephen...
I'm always looking at whatis happening behind the scene.
(20:37):
How does a composer work? What is the details?
How do you use your softwaresand things like that?
You showed a pair of glasseswith a telescope attached.
Can you explain how you use that?
Actually, it was my previous equipment,thanks to recent technological
(20:57):
improvements, now, I switched to digital instruments.
But for most time of my life,I've been using some kind of telescopes.
It was an ugly one, I know.[Laughs.]
It's another thingin the disability culture.
The accessibility instruments are ugly.
They should be able to design them morefancy, fancier, more fancy.
(21:22):
But they avoid to do that.
Then we end up with using some ugly
instruments, not designed that
fancy, that sexy.
But I've been using that.
When you used to workwith those telescopes,
it become like a part of your body.
(21:42):
But you always end up keep movingyour head because it's a tiny thing,
and you see the monitor in that part.
You can see the general picture,but if you want to focus on something,
if you want to, let's say,follow the mouse cursor,
you have to use that telescope and you'reending up moving your head and it
(22:04):
can cause a great headache in a let's say,6 hours of writing session because you
have headphones, studio-level headphones.
You have that considerably heavytelescopes and you have
to move your head all the time.
Now, I moved my head and I completelymessed up with the microphone.
(22:25):
Sorry for that.[Laughs.]
Okay.
Maybe I could get a lavalier.
Sorry.
What's your digital version, now?
Now, thanks to operating system developers, now
we have great inbuilt magnifiers.
This basically works as the telescopes,but these are digital,
(22:49):
so resolution is really high.
Also, you can shape the magnifier, how bigwill be the frame, or you can be the
full screen magnification if you want.
You can switch betweendifferent modes, and basically,
it can attach to the mouse.
When you move your cursor,the magnifier will follow it.
(23:10):
It's basically a digital frame,a virtual frame on your screen,
on your computer screen.
Also, for example, on your tabletor phone, it basically same.
The Mac version is better.
The magnifiers in macOSworks better to me, also in iPhone
(23:31):
and iPad, but it depends.
I have many colleagues whofeel more comfortable with Windows.
Also, I've been a former Windows userfor more than 30 years, so I can say that
these digital magnifiersserve really well.
Now, I'm really excited about this new
(23:52):
artificial - no - Augmented reality glasses like
the Apple Vision, Apple Pro Vision, andthe Meta's new prototype, Orion glasses.
Basically, then we won't need a computer screen anymore.
The Augmented Reality Glasseswill be able to create.
(24:14):
It's still now that you can do itwith the Apple Vision Pro.
It basically creates a virtual screenas big as you want to and
in which position you want to.
So you don't have to looka screen and hurt your neck.
Practically, in theory, you can lay downand look at the ceiling, and the
(24:35):
Augmented Reality glasses will create ascreen on the ceiling as big as you want.
You will be able to useyour magnifier features and everything
because it will be a computer screenin the end of the day.
But it will be another greatinvention, innovation for the
visually impaired community, let's say.
(24:56):
There will be also use casesin the outside, a different story.
But these technologies, even though not
focusing the blind community
or centralize the blind community, they areworking on some accessibility features.
Also, there are third-party companiesthat also can create, can come up
(25:17):
with features or software solutionsto make our lives easier.
But in my case, I basicallyuse a digital magnifier
and my mouse cursor, my keyboard.
It's half conventional, half my way.
I have blind friends who can use the DAW
(25:37):
softwares, Digital Audio Workstation,without touching the mouse.
They are really great and faster than me,faster than any other engineer or
any other artist on the face of the Earthbecause they use the keyboard, they are
really fast, really faster than me.
I'm willing to learn that thing in thefuture, that method, that way of work.
But most of the time I do that.
(26:00):
Can you give us a feel of what projectsyou're working on right now?
Do you have someinteresting work on the go?
Yeah, of course. I have somethingthat I can tell you right now,
but there are things also I can't tell.[Laughs.]
NDAs can be a pain in the neck.
Most recently, last week,
(26:24):
the first Guide Dog documentary of my country, Turkey,
has premiered in the TRT Documentary Awards.
It's a Turkey radio and television.
You can think it as the equivalent of BBC.
Also, they have an interesting relationshipwith BBC, also a partnership.
(26:44):
It's the first of its kind.
Also, I'm really excited about it becausefirst, my lovely Guide Dog, Blut -
I forgot to mention about her, and that'swhy she will give me such a hard time
because she's a drama queen.
Let's mention about her right now.
It's real.
Don't laugh.
(27:04):
She's a real drama queen.[Laughs.]
I cannot be able to hug anybody anymore
because she doesn't allow me to do that.
It's the first of its kind.
My lovely guide dog, Blut,was the star of the first episode.
I was the composer of that series.
(27:24):
The TRT premiered the first episode,
and it was the most interesting one
and had the most attentionin the documentary awards.
The more important thingis, yes, it's the first,
Turkey's first guide dog documentary.
Yes, I think I win the TRT's first blind
(27:50):
composer in TRT's history. They hired me
for this documentary series,and it was the first time for them, too.
So it was a historicmoment for TRT, I guess.
But the most importantly, they make
(28:12):
this story telling, make the narration
prioritizing disability justice.
It's also a first thing happenedin my country because there
are some documentaries about disabilityculture which are inaccurate,
I think, completely ableist,and has a wrong narration
(28:34):
about the disability justice becausethey're not prioritizing
disability justice.
They don't know the concept,the term disability justice at all.
But this is a documentary, use the correctterminology, correct language,
correct narration, and has the qualityof disability justice,
(28:56):
carries the quality of disability justice.
I consulted them to finetunethe narration, the voiceovers,
and all cinematography and narration.
They were kind enoughto listen me, they accept my input.
That's why I'm so excited,because now we have a documentary
(29:18):
about guide dogs in Turkey.
It can be...
It's a 2024 documentary.
If that documentary is producedin the States, in Canada, the narration
can't be better than that.
So that's one of my...That's one of my great honors.
(29:42):
There's a documentaryproduced in my country
with a correct narration, language,which prioritize the disability justice.
Plus, you told me that guide dogsare recent in Turkey, right?
Of course.Yeah.
Of course.
You say, Of course,because you live in Turkey.
(30:03):
But some people who are listening to usor watching this interview today,
they must say, What?
But I thought guide dogs were existing
since, I don't know, 10 years, 15 years.
But it's important to say thatin Turkey, now you have a few
(30:26):
families, including you,having a guide dog, which is great.
Yeah, it's a brand new thing.
The blind society, the blind community,always wanted to have guide dogs
as our accessibility partners.
But we have a stray dogsituation in Turkey.
It's different.
(30:47):
Actually, we have the least dogand cat population in Europe territory.
But the dog and cat owningrates are pretty low.
Most of our dogs and cats live on thestreet, which is a shame for my country
and for my people because the dogsor cats are not comfortable on streets.
(31:11):
They need their families.
They need families, theyneed houses, they need medical...
They need health care,they need medical attention.
But because we have stray dogs, a lot of stray dogs in Turkey,
the default paradigm was
(31:32):
we can't have guide dogs because we have stray dogs.
We have a lot of stray dogs in Turkey.
But it turns out, stray dogs are nota problem at all because they know that
our guide dogs are service animals,and our trainers can fine-tune our guide
dogs attitudes and behavior when they see
(31:55):
or when they're faced with a stray dog.
Our guide dogs can use the diplomacyto get out of the situation.
Most of the time, straydogs do their own thing.
They're not really interested with us.
In 10 years, the programis 10 years old now, I guess,
we have nine guide dogs on duty, and mostinterestingly, four of them was in
(32:18):
the documentary Awards for the Premiere.
It was really great because the Guide Dogprogram is new and because we have a
stray dog situation in Turkey,there's a lack of awareness when it comes
to Guide Dogs because as you know,we can go to restaurants, hospitals,
theaters, we can onboard to aircraft,
(32:42):
and everywhere with our guide dogs.
But the good people of my country stillstruggling with that fact.
How should they handle it?
Actually, the community support is great.
If you ask the people on the street,they all love guide dogs.
They are fascinated, and they'reso excited that we have guide dogs,
(33:05):
and they would love to us in everywhere.
Restaurants, theaters, planes,I don't know, subways, busses,
everywhere, in hospitals.
But the owners or work employees
of that facilities are struggling
(33:27):
to understand that they haveto allow us in their environment,
in their facility, their business.
So it became a battle on daily basis because there's a lack
of knowledge, lack of understanding,and lack of awareness, which makes us
(33:48):
a natural ambassador of guide dogs.
We're doing that work as public figures
because we have to shape the mindset of
the society if you want to access
(34:10):
to the places like everybody does, everybody do.
But it's getting better.
The situation was worseeven two years ago and getting better.
One thing about Turks.
Yes, we can be skeptical.
We can insist to do not understand things
(34:34):
if something conflicts with
our cultural knowledge I'm nottalking about everybody, let's say,
for the society itself, culturally, but
we are quick adopters and quick learners.
If somehow someone manage to tell us
(34:54):
the situation correctly, and if we decide
to be open-minded, then we can becomea quick learner or a practical thinker.
That's the thing about my people.
I know that there are also problemsin Greece because the culture are
pretty identical with Greece and Turkey.
(35:15):
We have a lot common, but alsothere are quick learners.
I believe in the future,the situation will be better.
We need to be more, let's say, we need tobe more productive as the blind community
and do our ambassador work as well.
But yeah, I know itsounds a little It's a bit weird because
(35:39):
Turkey is the only country, I guess,don't have an equivalent of ADA,
even though Turkey is part of the United Nations Convention on the
Rights of the Persons with Disabilities.
But these are the problems,and problems can be solved.
What about the impact of that on the art?
(36:02):
For you, what does it mean, accessibilityin the arts in that context,
or disability disability culture, becausethat's something we might talk about.
I will ask you, we are both part of RAMPD.
Yeah, of course.
In RAMPD, we have this discussion aboutdisability culture,
(36:22):
and we have this notion of accessibilityin the arts, which is already difficult
in the United States, as you know,because you work there, too,
and also because of your connectionswith RAMPD, which I will ask you
a little bit more about that.
Of course.
But before that,this impact of the fighting
for a better accessibility in Turkey,how is it represented in the arts?
(36:48):
Actually, there are some representationin the arts, but in Turkey,
the situation is a little bit different.We have a different...
Let's say there's a documentary,Crip Camp, nominated to the Oscars
a couple of years ago, directed by JimLebrecht, who is a Director,
(37:08):
identifying as disabled also.
In Crip Camp, the disabled citizensof the United States were fighting
for the Rehabilitation Act,which rejected by Nixon.
And his words are, and I quote,it will be too expensive to rehabilitate
(37:31):
the places for the disabled citizens.
And honestly, they didn't earn that.
They didn't have enough contribution
to the society financially.
That was the Nixon's words.
And the disability in action started.
They fighted for their rights,and then the Nixon had to sign
(37:55):
the act, Rehabilitation Act.
In Turkey, the situation is different.
In America, in the States,a President can stand up and say that,
Okay, I won't give anythingto the disabled citizens because to me,
they are not paying enough taxes,which is ridiculous because did they
(38:19):
provide enough employmentopportunity to the disabled citizens?
Did they provide the accessible educationenvironment to the disabled citizens?
But even though they didn'tdo any of those things, the President
can stand up and say, Okay,we won't do this rehabilitation thing
(38:41):
because it's expensive.
I don't want to spend that moneyto the disabled citizens
because they do not deserve it.
But in the end of the day, they had tobecause the disabled citizens,
the citizens with disabilities,make their cases pretty hard.
In Turkey, the situation is different.
(39:05):
Maybe it's being East because,for example, being in the East,
it's the Eastern culture.
You can see the samesimilar reactions or similar practices,
for example, in China or in Japan.
For example, in China, people alwayslive in multi-generation houses.
In Turkey, most of the peopledo the same thing.
(39:27):
From an American perspective,it's really weird, right?
You live with your grandma, grandpa,your father, mother, a couple of brothers
and sisters in the same house.
A multi-generation house,it's really different.
In those houses, they became
excessively overprotective if
(39:47):
there is a disabled child in the house.
The attitude, the common practiceis, Okay, we can do anything
and everything on your behalf.
You don't have to do anything.You are the king.
We do anything for you.
But okay, but this personhas to be trained, have to learn how to
read and write, have to learn a lotof things, be an undergrad diploma
(40:12):
certificate, be a bachelor certificate.
Have a bachelor certificate.
Have a profession.Has a profession.
But no, we can do anything.
We can brush your teeth evenWe can brush your teeth.
We don't teach you to do anything.
We can do it on your behalfuntil we will die.
What's the purpose of that?
(40:33):
I can't see.
But that's the cultural -cultural phenomenon.
Our mother's always,Okay, I can iron your clothes.
I can wash your clothes.
I can even give you a bath!
Because you're disabled.
No, teach me how to do that.
I was one of the real lucky ones that my
(40:56):
family has a pretty good understanding
about everything because theyare college-educated parents and they are
connected with the rest of the world and they understand
the importance of accessibility.
Thanks to my supporting momand dad, yes, they made mistakes
(41:18):
because they are the only onesfighting for my accessibility rights.
They are the only ones trying to learneverything, and it's simply impossible
to learn everything withouta specialist, without an expert's help.
But they managed to do allof these things with their knowledge,
I've become who I am today.
(41:40):
There are some rare examples alsowho become successful, productive,
and respected members of the community.
But the numbers are low.
We cannot talk about statistics.
We have that amount of
high-educated disabled citizens.
(42:01):
This is the rate for unemploymentor under-employment.
We can't talk about that because theTurks still to protect their children.
They even don't know what they'reprotecting their children from.
But they are learning because now,thanks to Gen Z and thanks
to internet and social networks, nowwe connected to the world, all of us.
(42:27):
We have access to the knowledge.
We have access to the differentcultures, different vantage
points, different perspectives.
So it's completely different thing.
In RAMPD, in America, in the States,
individualism is the key.
At RAMPD, we try toforce the interdependency.
(42:51):
Not independency, but interdependency,because we need each other
as a community, as a society.
For example, you can sing well, Ican write great songs, but I can't sing.
If you can perform the songsthat I created, then maybe
we can create the next hit of Spotify.
(43:14):
Deal.[Laughs.]
When do we do that?Tomorrow?
Of course, my tomorrow is open.
When did you start with RAMPD?
I know you have an importantrole in RAMPD right now.
Everybody has an interconnected role,as you were saying.
(43:35):
But thanks to people like you and peoplewho are leading us through some paths,
we are making it even better.
Can you talk about your role in RAMPD?
Yeah, of course.
Also at RAMPD, yes, I have an importantrole, but I'm just a student of RAMPD.
I'm learning because RAMPD has a pretty
(43:57):
unique culture, let's say, commercial
culture or professional culture, and aunique approach and vantage point when it
comes to accessibility and disabilityjustice and also disability culture.
Also, my story startedwith RAMPD last year.
(44:17):
It was an amazing momentfor me because I've been following
to RAMPD since it's first foundedand made their first launch event.
But you have to have some decent careersuccesses if you want to be a pro member.
Not decent, but you have to have - You are in the way of building your career.
(44:40):
The partnership - or membership committee, sorry - reveals your application, then
you can become a pro member or not.
Luckily, last year, I became a pro member,and I jumped into the PR committee
because, as I told, no is notan answer for me anymore.
I always say yes.
Okay, now I have a chanceto a member of committees.
(45:04):
Okay, I jumped into the PR committeebecause that I think that
I can make some contributes.
And one month later, I became the co-chair
of the PR committee because we don't have
a lot of members in the PR committee, butwe build it together with Lachi, Marsha, Mark -
(45:30):
Mark Erelli, Marsha Elle, Lachi,and our brilliant content lead, Sal, Salvador -
we started building that PR committee, and we come up
with creative projects at RAMPD.
So it became the cool guys'table at RAMPD right now.
(45:52):
You can call it on me![Laughs.]
So in one year, because I had a chance to spend a lot of time
with Lachi, thanks to PR Committee, I learned more about RAMPD and disability culture
and disability justice.Then I want to be part of the leadership
(46:12):
because I want to be a decision maker
because of my huge personality.
As Lachi said, because I'm a tyrant.[Laughs.]
I always have evil plans.
These are Lachi's opinions.
I don't know if these are accurate or not.
(46:35):
We'll see about that.
But then I ran for the electionsfor the secretary role, and I became
the secretary, and Marsha Elle from thePR committee became the vice president.
We ran to the elections togetherwithout knowing that we're running.
(46:56):
I gave my vote to Marsha,and she gave her vote to me.
The RAMPD members voted us, and we becamethe part of the leadership.
Now I have a more important role, and it'sgetting more serious because
now I have a responsibility because I'mrepresenting the whole members,
(47:20):
and I have to be an examplebecause fighting with the accessibility
and building a career at the same time isa delicate situation,
as you perfectly know.
Yes, some parts are protected by the law,
and you can always turn people in.
(47:42):
You can alwaysuse the legal system to get your rights.
But is that the only way doing it?
Or is that the most, let's say,efficient way to do it?
Because in the end of the day,you want to build a career.
You want to make friends,not make more enemies.
(48:04):
Yes, you are right.
You're fighting for a goodreason, but is that efficient, really?
Making those decisions, deciding what to do is
pretty tough time to time.
RAMPD tried to bridge that gapbecause we provide consultation
(48:28):
to the big organizations like
Recording Academy, Grammys, who organize,
who runs the Grammys.
Live Nation, companies like Netflix,Sony Pictures, and more and more.
Because we're providing consulting to them
(48:51):
because they want to be more accessible,
and RAMPD can provide that knowledgeto them, how they can be accessible.
RAMPD can be a bridge between the disabled
artists and fans and these huge venues
and organizations who run the entertainment industry and also
(49:12):
the companies like Netflix, streamingplatforms like Netflix, and more.
Using the diplomacy channels,providing knowledge, providing our
expertise to them, first,
make them more accessible, also change their mindsets
(49:34):
of these big organizations.
They start thinking, Okay,being accessible is a crucial thing.
It should be the default.
And RAMPD created it.
RAMPD created that mindset in theindustry, and we're still creating it.
It will be a long journey.
(49:55):
It will be a marathon.
It's a marathon right now.
But as a member of leadership, when you'refaced with the situations, you have to be
two times careful because I'm notrepresenting myself anymore.
I am representing RAMPD.
I'm representing the leadership.
I'm representing the members,and I have to be an example to them.
(50:17):
In our townhomes or when I'm collaboratingwith some pro members of RAMPD, because
as you know, RAMPD is a great ecosystem.
You can start a project from an ideato the red carpet by only working with
the brilliant members of RAMPD.
As you know, you are oneof these brilliant members of RAMPD.
(50:39):
Also, I have some friends.
Also, I met with some remarkable talentslike Mark Erelli has also
an episode in ArtsAbly.
We have to make an example becausewe have also community members who just
started creating their careers,and they're struggling, too.
It's hard.It's a fight of every day.
(51:02):
We also, as the members of leadership,time to time, terrified, frustrated
because of the situation.
But as the member of leadershipof RAMPD, as the secretary,
I know that I can solve it.
I know that I can use a diplomacy because
I'm trained to do that as a natural-born
problem solver out of the boxthinker as a natural-born diplomat.
(51:28):
I know all the problems.
I know bridging the gaps.
As a resourceful person,I can gap those bridges,
gap those - Bridge those gaps by myself. Sorry.
English is not my nativelanguage, as you can guess.
So be merciful.
(51:50):
But that's the thing.
It can be really tricky timeto time because you also
have a career and you're facedwith the difficulties on a daily basis.
But as a media composer, I can work
from my cave, from my island, as Lachi
said, time to time, our fearless leader.
(52:12):
But also as a musician, as someone who
attends to the premieres or festivals,
yeah, there are some inaccessible stuff.
Most of the things, taking careof my lovely guide dog,
beloved guide dog, Blut. But...
Blut means Cloud in English.
But it still can be tricky.
(52:34):
It's a still fight.
But as far as I know that, we are thearchitects of the future as a disabled
community, and we can design the future.
We are the correct futurists becausewe are the natural-born inventors,
natural-born problem solvers.
(52:54):
So that makes us natural architects,natural futurists, because we
have been building our feature.Nobody helped us.
We are the ones who are helping ourselves.
Now we became together,thanks to organizations like RAMPD,
and we connect with each other thanksto projects like ArtsAbly.
(53:17):
And thanks to those projects,organizations, these platforms.
Since we came together and we startcreating together, when we start creating
together, we can show the industryto the world, see, we are all
(53:37):
disabled professionals and we createsome top-level works of the industry.
Also the fact that being here, beingpresent, being a part of the picture
and having these conversationswith these people in order
to have this change of mindset happen.
(53:58):
This is really, really important.
I think RAMPD does it very well because Iremember having this conversation
at the very beginning of RAMPDwhen Lachi was there, I have a blink-blink
cane, and I have these big dresses and allthe eyes are coming to me, and then
suddenly the conversation happens.
(54:20):
[Laughs.]
I love it! It's really like, Okay, so now let's talk.
What do you do for these folkswho are also in the art?
Okay, let's talk now.
Yeah, of course.
I'm thankful to Lachi for being,or she is being Lachi because,
(54:41):
for example, I understand that attitude,that mindset since I have a guide dog.
Because now, before I partnered withmy lovely guide dog Blut, and I have glasses
and I didn't use cane.
People really don't get what I am,didn't get what I am.
(55:03):
Because sometimes they say,You look normal, whatever normal means.
[Laughs.]
Or when people crash on me,
hits me accidentally, they blame me
because I wasn't careful enough.
But okay, I'm visually impaired.
Chill, relax.
But since I partnered withmy guide dog, it's obvious.
(55:27):
There are signs on my guidedog, and obviously, she leads me
into the venue, into the neighborhood,to the neighborhood.
And then, okay, I have a guidedog, as you can see, which
means I'm visually impaired or blind.
Let's start talking.
(55:49):
Most of the time in Turkey,people think that
my dog can't see and I am handling her.
[Laughs.]
I'm taking care of her, even thoughthe sign clearly stands that I'm blind.
She's not.
But still people asking,Oh, your dog can't see? why?
(56:15):
No, she can see.
I can't.
When I say that, I didn't get that.You look normal.
No, I'm not.You're not, too.
There's no such thing called normal.[Laughs.]
What is normal? Can you define normal for me, please?
Yeah, I ask, What's normal?
Then the conversation ends.
(56:36):
See you![Laughs.]
With a smile and shaking hands,okay, waving hands.
Okay, see you then.
It's great to meet with you andyour dog who is blind.
No dog can see.I am blind!
[Laughs.]
One time, a family approached me and askedthat question, who of them can't see?
(57:01):
They asked the question,not me, but to my girlfriend.
She used to those situations,and she kept silent when they have
to direct their question to me, but theydirected their question to someone else.
She got silent and I say, It depends.
Some days, I'm being blind,some days my dog.
(57:26):
Mondays and Wednesday, I'm blind.
Tuesdays and Thursday, she is.
[Laughs.]
What was the reaction?
They scared and go away.
[Laughs.]
Because I think they took it seriously.
Oh! Stop scaring people, Kemal!
I think they terrified.
(57:47):
They realized that I'm a part of an alienspecies, a member of an alien species.
Oh, now they can see Mondaysand Wednesday, but the other days?
Oh, my God![Laughs.]
Okay, I have a last question for you.
Of course.
It's about people you might have met who
(58:09):
count in your career and who have maybe
motivated you, maybe showed you thingsthat you didn't know before.
If you have one or two peopleto name, who would it be and why?
We already mentioned about Lachi.
I've been learning a lotfrom Lachi, and I'm still learning.
Also, all members of the leadershipof RAMPD and the Team RAMPD,
(58:33):
Arthur, Anya, and Sal, I'm learning a lot fromthem also and from all the pro members,
our members of the committees.
These are the people that Iwould like to shout out.
But there's one person Iwould like to highlight.
His name is Stephen Letnes,founder and CEO of Able Artist Foundation,
(58:55):
as I think I mentioned about himbefore in this episode.
He's my mentor, colleague,and dear friend.
He made the greatest impact to my life and career
because without this foundation,
I won't have a career in the United States.
(59:15):
Without himself, I won't
some IMDb credits till now.
He was a guy that pretty, let's say,
mature, extremely talented, wise, and
(59:35):
also really - how can I say?An excellent professional.
I've been learning a lotfrom him how to handle business
relations, how to handle projects.
He hired me for a couple of projects.
I was able to work as a composer assistantand the additional music writer
(59:56):
in a couple of projects like"Surpassing Sight" or "Possibilities,"
produced by AFB, directed by Bill Sarine,American Foundation for the Blinds.
It was a great documentary.
Also, I was able to workas the co-composer
in a project with him, "Love & Taxes."
It's a feature comedy,romantic comedy film.
(01:00:21):
Also, without him, I don't haveconnections with publishing companies.
Without him, I won't havemusic onboarded with Hitlist Music.
Without that, the Mattel won'tsynch my music for the World's
First Blind Barbie Doll campaign andWorld's First Black Barbie Doll birthday.
(01:00:48):
Also, without that, I wasn't ableto meet with the Karina Sturm,
a German journalist and director,who also identify as disabled.
Now we're working togetherin a documentary about intersectionality
in disability cultureand disability justice.
(01:01:09):
Without him, maybe I will -
I will have some accomplishments.
I don't know.
But without him, I can'tachieve them that fast.
And without him, I can't be able tobuild a career and build a professional
(01:01:30):
character of a media composer.
We're still working together.
Now, I became a board memberof Able Artist Foundation most recently.
He was kind enoughto invite me to the board.
I think I am the first board memberwho was a former foundation member,
(01:01:54):
Able Artist Foundation member.
So Steve has the greatest impactin my career, in my life.
I learned how to be a...
I've learned how to be a, yes, I can say,I'm a professional media composer
with a visual disability from him.
I can't be thankful enough for his efforts
(01:02:18):
and for his friendship and mentorship.
Thank you so much.That I can say.
It's very interesting.
Also, it's full of connections, your life.
It's great to be able to have onefoot in the States and to be able
(01:02:40):
to do things in the industry over there
and make the things evolve in Turkey.
So yeah, very well done.
Thank you so much, Diane.
I really try to create a worldthat I really want to live in.
With my music, with my attitude,
(01:03:04):
with my opinions, and with trying to
affect people and affectthe culture of the society.
But we're all doing that.
You're doing that, all our members,RAMPD members doing that.
(01:03:24):
There are disabled professionals indifferent industries that are doing that.
We are a really big community, andwe have a really great family in RAMPD.
So yes, it's a community, but time totime, I feel like we are like a family
because we're helping each other.
I'm not helping, not say helping,but connecting with each other,
(01:03:48):
collaborating,and we become bigger and better.
So I'm thankful, highly thankfulfor our community, for the RAMPD, for
all members of the disability community
itself, because we are the bravest ones.
(01:04:08):
We are the most powerful ones.
That's why we are that -
We will be successful a lot in the future.
And proud to fight.
It's really that we are happyto fight together, which is great.
(01:04:31):
Yeah, of course.Also, I love the taste of blood.
[Laughs.]
I can't say that.
Sorry, Sorry.
I didn't say that as a memberof the leadership, but I say as
a media composer in Turkey,so I never run away from a great fight.
That's what we do in the disabilitycommunity, right?
(01:04:54):
We never run away from a great fight.
True.
Well, thank you so muchfor all your insights and stories.
It was really fascinating.
I wish you a fantastic day and talk soon.
Thank you so much, Diane.
Thank you so much inviting mefor this amazing conversation.
(01:05:14):
I hope you have an amazing day, too.
Thank you. Bye.
Bye-bye..
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith Kemal Gorey, who is a media composer
and accessibility advocateliving in Istanbul in Turkey.
You can find the resources mentionedby Kemal Gorey during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Playful Cat, by Kemal Gorey ♪
(02:37):
♪ End of Playful Cat ♪
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Kemal Gorey, who is amedia composer and accessibility advocate
living in Istanbul, in Turkey.Welcome, Kemal.
(02:58):
Thank you so much, Diane.
It's great to be here andyour pronunciation is excellent.
Thank you.
Okay, so I would like to start thisepisode by asking you about yourself,
about who you are, what brought you to music,
what brought you to being a media composer,
(03:20):
So tell me more about you.
Who are you and what led you to music?
As you said, I'm Kemal Gorey.
I'm a professional mediacomposer, classical trained musician.
I identify as blind.
I think it's hard to say, Diane,what was my motivation because I started
(03:42):
this journey when I was four, I assume,
because my uncle, who is a singer and songwriter,
who has a really accomplishedrock band in my country, Turkey,
he is one of the legendsof the rock history in my country.
Also, my father is a guitar player.
(04:05):
I think I'm born into that environment.
There were always instruments,there were always music in the center
of my family's daily life.
And I think that habit,that environment shaped me
because when I was a little kid,
(04:27):
I remember that my two beloved go-to toys,
favorite toys, let's say, is one of my father's guitar, which stands right behind of me,
and the stereo, which I can play some music with it,
with CDs and cassettes.
Maybe the younger generation doesn'tknow what it means, but cassettes are
(04:48):
the go-to medium for us to consumethe music before all this Spotify thing
and also before the Napster.Nobody knows Napster.
I'm a nerd.Sorry for that.
My first...
How can I say?
My first memory about musicthat I was on the stage when I was four,
(05:08):
and singing a song with my uncle's band
in a really big concert area with the crowd,
everybody shouting the band's name.
I was singing the song when I was four.
That was my very first experienceas a professional and very first memory
about my music journey.
(05:29):
Then it all started with the piano lessonsbecause I fell in love with piano
and I chose it as a career.
When I was in high school, I went toFine Arts High School in Turkey,
and I moved on to the college,again, Fine Arts, a music school.
(05:50):
I've always wanted to be a musician,and I've always wanted to be
a composer, a film composer, actually.
I think I tell this story everywhere,but when I was a kid, and it was '90s,
and the televisions are smalland the resolution was a a joke, in '90s.
It was hard to me to catch every micromimics, gestures, because now we have
(06:15):
this huge 4K screens with the really 10bit record, that footage and everything.
But we don't have that in the past.
We didn't have that in the past.
When I was trying to catch the mimics orwhere the story will go,
if I somehowmiss a microgesture or something,
(06:40):
the score could help me to understand itbecause score, basically,
the music score translates the storyto the music, which is a no-brainer.
But there's a secret function in it.
It can serve as an accessibility featurebecause let's say in a romantic scene,
(07:00):
if the music gives a hint, let's say,of a dark theme, it foreshadows
something will happen bad inthe short term, in the story.
If you couldn't get that from the picture,you can get that from the score.
That was my trusted guide when I waswatching because I'm visually impaired.
(07:26):
Yes, I know I always say I identify as blindbecause it sounds more clear to me.
I think we shouldn'tstruggle too much with the terminology.
It's not studies.
Yes, technically, scientifically,I'm visually impaired, but it's
no big deal to say that I'm blindbecause we're in the same universe
(07:49):
as the visual disabled community.
Back to the topic,the film scores were my trusted guide,
and I always wanted to be the onewho creates
that score with the whole orchestraand the whole sense with the piano,
different instruments,and I have been always curious about
(08:10):
learning different instruments because Iwant to know, I want to understand how they -
how they work, basically,how a violin works, how a trumpet works,
or how a timpani works, even a vocal,because vocal also an instrument,
one of the most complicated ones,and understanding the mechanics
(08:34):
of the vocal, it's tricky.
That's why, for example,I majored opera singing in college.
Yes, I can sing some songs fromthe Mozart's Don Giovanni opera,
[laughs]or it's another story.
(08:55):
Then, I went to college.
It's a completely different beat.
Let's say, training, education
in Turkey can be really a challenge
if you have a disability.
Let's say it was because I have an ideaabout the current situation,
(09:15):
but I'm not experiencing it.
That's why I would like tosay that it was a great challenge
if you want to be educatedand if you have a disability in Turkey.
Solving the problems, inventing
some methods, it becomes a daily habit
(09:35):
for a disabled student, evenwhen you were six or seven years old.
But in the end of the day,when I graduated from college,
I knew what I wanted to do,but life had different plans for me.
I worked as an active musician,a recording artist, a live musician,
(09:58):
and also an arranger, a ghostwriter.
In Turkey, I had done many things tobe able to survive, to be able to build a
career, build a life a sustainable life.
At some point, I decided to make a shiftin my career, and I decided to
do what I really want to do.
(10:20):
It's all about killingthe what-if person in your mind,
because there's always a what-if person.
What if I'm not talented enough?
What if I'm not professionalor experienced enough, what if
the things that I know are all wrong,all If I'm all mistaken about myself.
(10:40):
When you kill that personality in yourmind, the what if guy,
I would like to call it that way,then you can become anything you like
because thegreatest barriers that we face,
not the accessibility challenges,not the ableism, but this passive
internalized ableism, it's what-if,that you build in your mind,
(11:05):
thanks to people's opinions about you.
Thanks to people, how peopletreat you on daily basis.
But when you kill that person, killthat character, kill that imagination
in your mind, then it all wides openbecause there's no barriers then.
Accessibility problems?
Yeah, I know that.
(11:26):
I'm dealing with themsince when I was a kid.
Yeah, ableism, I know that too.
I'm dealing with thosealso since when I was kid.
These are not problems at all.
Yes, these are important problems,but I know how to deal with them.
I know how to fight with them.
I only didn't know how to fight withthat what-if person in my head.
(11:48):
Now I beaten it, I can do anything I wantbecause there's no barriers.
I decided to become a media composer.
I decided to build a career in the Statesand in the Hollywood, ultimately,
and I am in that path right now.
So, once you killed the what-if in yourself,you stopped being a ghost writer
(12:09):
and you became a composer with the namethat you're carrying right now.
Yeah, we can say it that way also.
But I think even if I know thatI want to do something with my name,
I don't think I will find any chancein Turkey as a media composer
(12:31):
because I didn't specificallyrequest it to be a ghostwriter.
That was the only way that I can scoremusic to a motion picture and get paid.
That was the...
How can I say?
That was the conditions for mein the past because
they only offer me to be a ghostwriterbecause somehow the production company is
(12:56):
either ashamed or terrified to work with acomposer with a visual disability
because even they can't understand howcan I synch the music to the picture.
Even I say that, Okay,I can see the picture.
I have a full spectrum vision.
Yes, I can see things while I'm walkingbecause it's the part of
(13:18):
retinitis pigmentosa, part of the nystagmus.
These are the medical conditionsand has some effects on my eyes,
so I can't see properly, which doesn'tmean that I can't work with a picture.
Even a blind person canwork with a picture.
Maybe they can use a sight assistantor something, or they can basically
(13:40):
use the script and time codes.
Anything can possible.
It's all about how weunderstand the matter.
Do we need some...
Are we open-minded or not?
Do we need a great musicto this picture or not?
But the production companiesin the past, maybe the situation
(14:01):
is the same, I'm not sure,always wondering to work with a person
who's similar, who look familiar to them.
Let's put it that way.
What was the triggering point?
When did you decide, Okay, I'm going to
submit my own media music score, and I'm
(14:23):
going to compose for films and submit it?
Actually, you know what?
Two things has triggered me.
First, I had a cataract surgery,and it was a high-risky one.
There was a great chance that I
lose all the sight. But I found a legendary
surgeon, and he took careof the process without any problems.
(14:47):
That things change your mentality.
Okay, I survived that.
I survived from that.
So maybe I can do morein my life because I survived.
It was highly stressful,but nothing bad happened.
Maybe nothing bad happenin my career also.
But ultimately, it all started with a YouTube video.
(15:08):
It was summer, COVID,first year of the pandemic.
I was in the YouTube becausethat's what I do as a nerd.
I will always search some better tutorial
videos about music, sound technologies,
media composition, and all that stuff.
(15:28):
I saw a video of a guy,a white American guy who says that he is
the founder of a foundationcalled Able Artist Foundationn, also
says that he is also visually impaired,and he's a professional media composer.
In the video, that said that, Okay,you can be a member of our foundation.
(15:50):
Also, we have a contest.
If you want to submit your music,we will review it and we will
choose some of you as winners.
I think in that very moment, I decided
to change all my attitude because there's
(16:10):
a person 10,000 miles away from my homewho is a professional media composer
who has a visual disabilitycalled retinitis pigmentosa.
His name is Stephen Letnes,and he is the CEO and founder
of the Able Artist Foundation.
I decided to submit my trackbecause I wasn't alone anymore.
(16:32):
I'm not the only kind of my species.There are others.
So I decided to submit my trackand see what happens.
In that moment, I, utterly,I decided to kill that what-if person
because, okay, there are more.
I found my familiars now.
(16:55):
I don't have to be alone.I don't have to tell.
I don't have to craft my path.
I can basically connect with them.
I can basically find my community,which I've always been seeking out.
I submit my tracks.
And two months later, I was named as theGrand Prize winner, and it all started.
(17:20):
Congratulations.
Thank you. It was four years ago,but still excited about it.
Since then, I'm the one who...
I'm one of the jury members.
[Laughs.]
Okay, so what happened next?
What happened after you won this contest?
Actually, I've been talkingwith some of my friends about this, and
(17:44):
normally I have another answer to that,but let me give you a brand new one.
After that, actually,there was an interview with Stephen,
Stephen Letnes, for the Able Artist Foundation's fundraiser.
Most part of the prizes are the softwares.
(18:06):
I received some of the great complimentsof the software or, let's say,
sound set developers that I'vebeen following in my entire life.
The other prize is connectingwith a library music publisher.
That's what I was looking for by myself.
(18:28):
It came to me.
It came to me.
I submit some of my tracksto that publisher.
We set an interview, we set a meeting,and they want to onboard all of my music.
I don't have to do anything.
I don't have to compose new music.
They wanted to onboard my existing tracks.It was great.
(18:50):
I send it through.
Then I started working some new musicpacks for that publisher, Hitlist Music.
I submitted some tracks.
They decided to onboard them also.
Then it all started.
Then I started I don't jump intoeach opportunity that I see.
(19:13):
I rejected to say no to anything.
The yes became the default answer for me.
Hey, do you want to do this?Yes.
You want to be in this project?Yes.
There's no no becausethere's no need to say no.
There's no need to be hesitated.
I know that I can do that.
Wasn't that stressful?Highly stressful.
(19:35):
I always doubt myself because it'sa part of being a musician.
This relationship is toxic with music.
You never can say that,Okay, this sounds good.
No matter if you're a concertist, aninstrumentalist, a songwriter, a singer,
a composer, it will be never done.
(19:56):
As you perfectly know thatit can't be good enough for us.
Our work can't be goodenough for ourselves.
But I stopped worrying about that.
Then I started to think, Okay,people, the reviewers, the client
can say to me, It's not working.
(20:16):
I do what I can do.I give my best.
Then we'll see what will happen.
Changing that mindsetopens all the doors for me.
In this interview with Stephen...
I'm always looking at whatis happening behind the scene.
(20:37):
How does a composer work? What is the details?
How do you use your softwaresand things like that?
You showed a pair of glasseswith a telescope attached.
Can you explain how you use that?
Actually, it was my previous equipment,thanks to recent technological
(20:57):
improvements, now, I switched to digital instruments.
But for most time of my life,I've been using some kind of telescopes.
It was an ugly one, I know.[Laughs.]
It's another thingin the disability culture.
The accessibility instruments are ugly.
They should be able to design them morefancy, fancier, more fancy.
(21:22):
But they avoid to do that.
Then we end up with using some ugly
instruments, not designed that
fancy, that sexy.
But I've been using that.
When you used to workwith those telescopes,
it become like a part of your body.
(21:42):
But you always end up keep movingyour head because it's a tiny thing,
and you see the monitor in that part.
You can see the general picture,but if you want to focus on something,
if you want to, let's say,follow the mouse cursor,
you have to use that telescope and you'reending up moving your head and it
(22:04):
can cause a great headache in a let's say,6 hours of writing session because you
have headphones, studio-level headphones.
You have that considerably heavytelescopes and you have
to move your head all the time.
Now, I moved my head and I completelymessed up with the microphone.
(22:25):
Sorry for that.[Laughs.]
Okay.
Maybe I could get a lavalier.
Sorry.
What's your digital version, now?
Now, thanks to operating system developers, now
we have great inbuilt magnifiers.
This basically works as the telescopes,but these are digital,
(22:49):
so resolution is really high.
Also, you can shape the magnifier, how bigwill be the frame, or you can be the
full screen magnification if you want.
You can switch betweendifferent modes, and basically,
it can attach to the mouse.
When you move your cursor,the magnifier will follow it.
(23:10):
It's basically a digital frame,a virtual frame on your screen,
on your computer screen.
Also, for example, on your tabletor phone, it basically same.
The Mac version is better.
The magnifiers in macOSworks better to me, also in iPhone
(23:31):
and iPad, but it depends.
I have many colleagues whofeel more comfortable with Windows.
Also, I've been a former Windows userfor more than 30 years, so I can say that
these digital magnifiersserve really well.
Now, I'm really excited about this new
(23:52):
artificial - no - Augmented reality glasses like
the Apple Vision, Apple Pro Vision, andthe Meta's new prototype, Orion glasses.
Basically, then we won't need a computer screen anymore.
The Augmented Reality Glasseswill be able to create.
(24:14):
It's still now that you can do itwith the Apple Vision Pro.
It basically creates a virtual screenas big as you want to and
in which position you want to.
So you don't have to looka screen and hurt your neck.
Practically, in theory, you can lay downand look at the ceiling, and the
(24:35):
Augmented Reality glasses will create ascreen on the ceiling as big as you want.
You will be able to useyour magnifier features and everything
because it will be a computer screenin the end of the day.
But it will be another greatinvention, innovation for the
visually impaired community, let's say.
(24:56):
There will be also use casesin the outside, a different story.
But these technologies, even though not
focusing the blind community
or centralize the blind community, they areworking on some accessibility features.
Also, there are third-party companiesthat also can create, can come up
(25:17):
with features or software solutionsto make our lives easier.
But in my case, I basicallyuse a digital magnifier
and my mouse cursor, my keyboard.
It's half conventional, half my way.
I have blind friends who can use the DAW
(25:37):
softwares, Digital Audio Workstation,without touching the mouse.
They are really great and faster than me,faster than any other engineer or
any other artist on the face of the Earthbecause they use the keyboard, they are
really fast, really faster than me.
I'm willing to learn that thing in thefuture, that method, that way of work.
But most of the time I do that.
(26:00):
Can you give us a feel of what projectsyou're working on right now?
Do you have someinteresting work on the go?
Yeah, of course. I have somethingthat I can tell you right now,
but there are things also I can't tell.[Laughs.]
NDAs can be a pain in the neck.
Most recently, last week,
(26:24):
the first Guide Dog documentary of my country, Turkey,
has premiered in the TRT Documentary Awards.
It's a Turkey radio and television.
You can think it as the equivalent of BBC.
Also, they have an interesting relationshipwith BBC, also a partnership.
(26:44):
It's the first of its kind.
Also, I'm really excited about it becausefirst, my lovely Guide Dog, Blut -
I forgot to mention about her, and that'swhy she will give me such a hard time
because she's a drama queen.
Let's mention about her right now.
It's real.
Don't laugh.
(27:04):
She's a real drama queen.[Laughs.]
I cannot be able to hug anybody anymore
because she doesn't allow me to do that.
It's the first of its kind.
My lovely guide dog, Blut,was the star of the first episode.
I was the composer of that series.
(27:24):
The TRT premiered the first episode,
and it was the most interesting one
and had the most attentionin the documentary awards.
The more important thingis, yes, it's the first,
Turkey's first guide dog documentary.
Yes, I think I win the TRT's first blind
(27:50):
composer in TRT's history. They hired me
for this documentary series,and it was the first time for them, too.
So it was a historicmoment for TRT, I guess.
But the most importantly, they make
(28:12):
this story telling, make the narration
prioritizing disability justice.
It's also a first thing happenedin my country because there
are some documentaries about disabilityculture which are inaccurate,
I think, completely ableist,and has a wrong narration
(28:34):
about the disability justice becausethey're not prioritizing
disability justice.
They don't know the concept,the term disability justice at all.
But this is a documentary, use the correctterminology, correct language,
correct narration, and has the qualityof disability justice,
(28:56):
carries the quality of disability justice.
I consulted them to finetunethe narration, the voiceovers,
and all cinematography and narration.
They were kind enoughto listen me, they accept my input.
That's why I'm so excited,because now we have a documentary
(29:18):
about guide dogs in Turkey.
It can be...
It's a 2024 documentary.
If that documentary is producedin the States, in Canada, the narration
can't be better than that.
So that's one of my...That's one of my great honors.
(29:42):
There's a documentaryproduced in my country
with a correct narration, language,which prioritize the disability justice.
Plus, you told me that guide dogsare recent in Turkey, right?
Of course.Yeah.
Of course.
You say, Of course,because you live in Turkey.
(30:03):
But some people who are listening to usor watching this interview today,
they must say, What?
But I thought guide dogs were existing
since, I don't know, 10 years, 15 years.
But it's important to say thatin Turkey, now you have a few
(30:26):
families, including you,having a guide dog, which is great.
Yeah, it's a brand new thing.
The blind society, the blind community,always wanted to have guide dogs
as our accessibility partners.
But we have a stray dogsituation in Turkey.
It's different.
(30:47):
Actually, we have the least dogand cat population in Europe territory.
But the dog and cat owningrates are pretty low.
Most of our dogs and cats live on thestreet, which is a shame for my country
and for my people because the dogsor cats are not comfortable on streets.
(31:11):
They need their families.
They need families, theyneed houses, they need medical...
They need health care,they need medical attention.
But because we have stray dogs, a lot of stray dogs in Turkey,
the default paradigm was
(31:32):
we can't have guide dogs because we have stray dogs.
We have a lot of stray dogs in Turkey.
But it turns out, stray dogs are nota problem at all because they know that
our guide dogs are service animals,and our trainers can fine-tune our guide
dogs attitudes and behavior when they see
(31:55):
or when they're faced with a stray dog.
Our guide dogs can use the diplomacyto get out of the situation.
Most of the time, straydogs do their own thing.
They're not really interested with us.
In 10 years, the programis 10 years old now, I guess,
we have nine guide dogs on duty, and mostinterestingly, four of them was in
(32:18):
the documentary Awards for the Premiere.
It was really great because the Guide Dogprogram is new and because we have a
stray dog situation in Turkey,there's a lack of awareness when it comes
to Guide Dogs because as you know,we can go to restaurants, hospitals,
theaters, we can onboard to aircraft,
(32:42):
and everywhere with our guide dogs.
But the good people of my country stillstruggling with that fact.
How should they handle it?
Actually, the community support is great.
If you ask the people on the street,they all love guide dogs.
They are fascinated, and they'reso excited that we have guide dogs,
(33:05):
and they would love to us in everywhere.
Restaurants, theaters, planes,I don't know, subways, busses,
everywhere, in hospitals.
But the owners or work employees
of that facilities are struggling
(33:27):
to understand that they haveto allow us in their environment,
in their facility, their business.
So it became a battle on daily basis because there's a lack
of knowledge, lack of understanding,and lack of awareness, which makes us
(33:48):
a natural ambassador of guide dogs.
We're doing that work as public figures
because we have to shape the mindset of
the society if you want to access
(34:10):
to the places like everybody does, everybody do.
But it's getting better.
The situation was worseeven two years ago and getting better.
One thing about Turks.
Yes, we can be skeptical.
We can insist to do not understand things
(34:34):
if something conflicts with
our cultural knowledge I'm nottalking about everybody, let's say,
for the society itself, culturally, but
we are quick adopters and quick learners.
If somehow someone manage to tell us
(34:54):
the situation correctly, and if we decide
to be open-minded, then we can becomea quick learner or a practical thinker.
That's the thing about my people.
I know that there are also problemsin Greece because the culture are
pretty identical with Greece and Turkey.
(35:15):
We have a lot common, but alsothere are quick learners.
I believe in the future,the situation will be better.
We need to be more, let's say, we need tobe more productive as the blind community
and do our ambassador work as well.
But yeah, I know itsounds a little It's a bit weird because
(35:39):
Turkey is the only country, I guess,don't have an equivalent of ADA,
even though Turkey is part of the United Nations Convention on the
Rights of the Persons with Disabilities.
But these are the problems,and problems can be solved.
What about the impact of that on the art?
(36:02):
For you, what does it mean, accessibilityin the arts in that context,
or disability disability culture, becausethat's something we might talk about.
I will ask you, we are both part of RAMPD.
Yeah, of course.
In RAMPD, we have this discussion aboutdisability culture,
(36:22):
and we have this notion of accessibilityin the arts, which is already difficult
in the United States, as you know,because you work there, too,
and also because of your connectionswith RAMPD, which I will ask you
a little bit more about that.
Of course.
But before that,this impact of the fighting
for a better accessibility in Turkey,how is it represented in the arts?
(36:48):
Actually, there are some representationin the arts, but in Turkey,
the situation is a little bit different.We have a different...
Let's say there's a documentary,Crip Camp, nominated to the Oscars
a couple of years ago, directed by JimLebrecht, who is a Director,
(37:08):
identifying as disabled also.
In Crip Camp, the disabled citizensof the United States were fighting
for the Rehabilitation Act,which rejected by Nixon.
And his words are, and I quote,it will be too expensive to rehabilitate
(37:31):
the places for the disabled citizens.
And honestly, they didn't earn that.
They didn't have enough contribution
to the society financially.
That was the Nixon's words.
And the disability in action started.
They fighted for their rights,and then the Nixon had to sign
(37:55):
the act, Rehabilitation Act.
In Turkey, the situation is different.
In America, in the States,a President can stand up and say that,
Okay, I won't give anythingto the disabled citizens because to me,
they are not paying enough taxes,which is ridiculous because did they
(38:19):
provide enough employmentopportunity to the disabled citizens?
Did they provide the accessible educationenvironment to the disabled citizens?
But even though they didn'tdo any of those things, the President
can stand up and say, Okay,we won't do this rehabilitation thing
(38:41):
because it's expensive.
I don't want to spend that moneyto the disabled citizens
because they do not deserve it.
But in the end of the day, they had tobecause the disabled citizens,
the citizens with disabilities,make their cases pretty hard.
In Turkey, the situation is different.
(39:05):
Maybe it's being East because,for example, being in the East,
it's the Eastern culture.
You can see the samesimilar reactions or similar practices,
for example, in China or in Japan.
For example, in China, people alwayslive in multi-generation houses.
In Turkey, most of the peopledo the same thing.
(39:27):
From an American perspective,it's really weird, right?
You live with your grandma, grandpa,your father, mother, a couple of brothers
and sisters in the same house.
A multi-generation house,it's really different.
In those houses, they became
excessively overprotective if
(39:47):
there is a disabled child in the house.
The attitude, the common practiceis, Okay, we can do anything
and everything on your behalf.
You don't have to do anything.You are the king.
We do anything for you.
But okay, but this personhas to be trained, have to learn how to
read and write, have to learn a lotof things, be an undergrad diploma
(40:12):
certificate, be a bachelor certificate.
Have a bachelor certificate.
Have a profession.Has a profession.
But no, we can do anything.
We can brush your teeth evenWe can brush your teeth.
We don't teach you to do anything.
We can do it on your behalfuntil we will die.
What's the purpose of that?
(40:33):
I can't see.
But that's the cultural -cultural phenomenon.
Our mother's always,Okay, I can iron your clothes.
I can wash your clothes.
I can even give you a bath!
Because you're disabled.
No, teach me how to do that.
I was one of the real lucky ones that my
(40:56):
family has a pretty good understanding
about everything because theyare college-educated parents and they are
connected with the rest of the world and they understand
the importance of accessibility.
Thanks to my supporting momand dad, yes, they made mistakes
(41:18):
because they are the only onesfighting for my accessibility rights.
They are the only ones trying to learneverything, and it's simply impossible
to learn everything withouta specialist, without an expert's help.
But they managed to do allof these things with their knowledge,
I've become who I am today.
(41:40):
There are some rare examples alsowho become successful, productive,
and respected members of the community.
But the numbers are low.
We cannot talk about statistics.
We have that amount of
high-educated disabled citizens.
(42:01):
This is the rate for unemploymentor under-employment.
We can't talk about that because theTurks still to protect their children.
They even don't know what they'reprotecting their children from.
But they are learning because now,thanks to Gen Z and thanks
to internet and social networks, nowwe connected to the world, all of us.
(42:27):
We have access to the knowledge.
We have access to the differentcultures, different vantage
points, different perspectives.
So it's completely different thing.
In RAMPD, in America, in the States,
individualism is the key.
At RAMPD, we try toforce the interdependency.
(42:51):
Not independency, but interdependency,because we need each other
as a community, as a society.
For example, you can sing well, Ican write great songs, but I can't sing.
If you can perform the songsthat I created, then maybe
we can create the next hit of Spotify.
(43:14):
Deal.[Laughs.]
When do we do that?Tomorrow?
Of course, my tomorrow is open.
When did you start with RAMPD?
I know you have an importantrole in RAMPD right now.
Everybody has an interconnected role,as you were saying.
(43:35):
But thanks to people like you and peoplewho are leading us through some paths,
we are making it even better.
Can you talk about your role in RAMPD?
Yeah, of course.
Also at RAMPD, yes, I have an importantrole, but I'm just a student of RAMPD.
I'm learning because RAMPD has a pretty
(43:57):
unique culture, let's say, commercial
culture or professional culture, and aunique approach and vantage point when it
comes to accessibility and disabilityjustice and also disability culture.
Also, my story startedwith RAMPD last year.
(44:17):
It was an amazing momentfor me because I've been following
to RAMPD since it's first foundedand made their first launch event.
But you have to have some decent careersuccesses if you want to be a pro member.
Not decent, but you have to have - You are in the way of building your career.
(44:40):
The partnership - or membership committee, sorry - reveals your application, then
you can become a pro member or not.
Luckily, last year, I became a pro member,and I jumped into the PR committee
because, as I told, no is notan answer for me anymore.
I always say yes.
Okay, now I have a chanceto a member of committees.
(45:04):
Okay, I jumped into the PR committeebecause that I think that
I can make some contributes.
And one month later, I became the co-chair
of the PR committee because we don't have
a lot of members in the PR committee, butwe build it together with Lachi, Marsha, Mark -
(45:30):
Mark Erelli, Marsha Elle, Lachi,and our brilliant content lead, Sal, Salvador -
we started building that PR committee, and we come up
with creative projects at RAMPD.
So it became the cool guys'table at RAMPD right now.
(45:52):
You can call it on me![Laughs.]
So in one year, because I had a chance to spend a lot of time
with Lachi, thanks to PR Committee, I learned more about RAMPD and disability culture
and disability justice.Then I want to be part of the leadership
(46:12):
because I want to be a decision maker
because of my huge personality.
As Lachi said, because I'm a tyrant.[Laughs.]
I always have evil plans.
These are Lachi's opinions.
I don't know if these are accurate or not.
(46:35):
We'll see about that.
But then I ran for the electionsfor the secretary role, and I became
the secretary, and Marsha Elle from thePR committee became the vice president.
We ran to the elections togetherwithout knowing that we're running.
(46:56):
I gave my vote to Marsha,and she gave her vote to me.
The RAMPD members voted us, and we becamethe part of the leadership.
Now I have a more important role, and it'sgetting more serious because
now I have a responsibility because I'mrepresenting the whole members,
(47:20):
and I have to be an examplebecause fighting with the accessibility
and building a career at the same time isa delicate situation,
as you perfectly know.
Yes, some parts are protected by the law,
and you can always turn people in.
(47:42):
You can alwaysuse the legal system to get your rights.
But is that the only way doing it?
Or is that the most, let's say,efficient way to do it?
Because in the end of the day,you want to build a career.
You want to make friends,not make more enemies.
(48:04):
Yes, you are right.
You're fighting for a goodreason, but is that efficient, really?
Making those decisions, deciding what to do is
pretty tough time to time.
RAMPD tried to bridge that gapbecause we provide consultation
(48:28):
to the big organizations like
Recording Academy, Grammys, who organize,
who runs the Grammys.
Live Nation, companies like Netflix,Sony Pictures, and more and more.
Because we're providing consulting to them
(48:51):
because they want to be more accessible,
and RAMPD can provide that knowledgeto them, how they can be accessible.
RAMPD can be a bridge between the disabled
artists and fans and these huge venues
and organizations who run the entertainment industry and also
(49:12):
the companies like Netflix, streamingplatforms like Netflix, and more.
Using the diplomacy channels,providing knowledge, providing our
expertise to them, first,
make them more accessible, also change their mindsets
(49:34):
of these big organizations.
They start thinking, Okay,being accessible is a crucial thing.
It should be the default.
And RAMPD created it.
RAMPD created that mindset in theindustry, and we're still creating it.
It will be a long journey.
(49:55):
It will be a marathon.
It's a marathon right now.
But as a member of leadership, when you'refaced with the situations, you have to be
two times careful because I'm notrepresenting myself anymore.
I am representing RAMPD.
I'm representing the leadership.
I'm representing the members,and I have to be an example to them.
(50:17):
In our townhomes or when I'm collaboratingwith some pro members of RAMPD, because
as you know, RAMPD is a great ecosystem.
You can start a project from an ideato the red carpet by only working with
the brilliant members of RAMPD.
As you know, you are oneof these brilliant members of RAMPD.
(50:39):
Also, I have some friends.
Also, I met with some remarkable talentslike Mark Erelli has also
an episode in ArtsAbly.
We have to make an example becausewe have also community members who just
started creating their careers,and they're struggling, too.
It's hard.It's a fight of every day.
(51:02):
We also, as the members of leadership,time to time, terrified, frustrated
because of the situation.
But as the member of leadershipof RAMPD, as the secretary,
I know that I can solve it.
I know that I can use a diplomacy because
I'm trained to do that as a natural-born
problem solver out of the boxthinker as a natural-born diplomat.
(51:28):
I know all the problems.
I know bridging the gaps.
As a resourceful person,I can gap those bridges,
gap those - Bridge those gaps by myself. Sorry.
English is not my nativelanguage, as you can guess.
So be merciful.
(51:50):
But that's the thing.
It can be really tricky timeto time because you also
have a career and you're facedwith the difficulties on a daily basis.
But as a media composer, I can work
from my cave, from my island, as Lachi
said, time to time, our fearless leader.
(52:12):
But also as a musician, as someone who
attends to the premieres or festivals,
yeah, there are some inaccessible stuff.
Most of the things, taking careof my lovely guide dog,
beloved guide dog, Blut. But...
Blut means Cloud in English.
But it still can be tricky.
(52:34):
It's a still fight.
But as far as I know that, we are thearchitects of the future as a disabled
community, and we can design the future.
We are the correct futurists becausewe are the natural-born inventors,
natural-born problem solvers.
(52:54):
So that makes us natural architects,natural futurists, because we
have been building our feature.Nobody helped us.
We are the ones who are helping ourselves.
Now we became together,thanks to organizations like RAMPD,
and we connect with each other thanksto projects like ArtsAbly.
(53:17):
And thanks to those projects,organizations, these platforms.
Since we came together and we startcreating together, when we start creating
together, we can show the industryto the world, see, we are all
(53:37):
disabled professionals and we createsome top-level works of the industry.
Also the fact that being here, beingpresent, being a part of the picture
and having these conversationswith these people in order
to have this change of mindset happen.
(53:58):
This is really, really important.
I think RAMPD does it very well because Iremember having this conversation
at the very beginning of RAMPDwhen Lachi was there, I have a blink-blink
cane, and I have these big dresses and allthe eyes are coming to me, and then
suddenly the conversation happens.
(54:20):
[Laughs.]
I love it! It's really like, Okay, so now let's talk.
What do you do for these folkswho are also in the art?
Okay, let's talk now.
Yeah, of course.
I'm thankful to Lachi for being,or she is being Lachi because,
(54:41):
for example, I understand that attitude,that mindset since I have a guide dog.
Because now, before I partnered withmy lovely guide dog Blut, and I have glasses
and I didn't use cane.
People really don't get what I am,didn't get what I am.
(55:03):
Because sometimes they say,You look normal, whatever normal means.
[Laughs.]
Or when people crash on me,
hits me accidentally, they blame me
because I wasn't careful enough.
But okay, I'm visually impaired.
Chill, relax.
But since I partnered withmy guide dog, it's obvious.
(55:27):
There are signs on my guidedog, and obviously, she leads me
into the venue, into the neighborhood,to the neighborhood.
And then, okay, I have a guidedog, as you can see, which
means I'm visually impaired or blind.
Let's start talking.
(55:49):
Most of the time in Turkey,people think that
my dog can't see and I am handling her.
[Laughs.]
I'm taking care of her, even thoughthe sign clearly stands that I'm blind.
She's not.
But still people asking,Oh, your dog can't see? why?
(56:15):
No, she can see.
I can't.
When I say that, I didn't get that.You look normal.
No, I'm not.You're not, too.
There's no such thing called normal.[Laughs.]
What is normal? Can you define normal for me, please?
Yeah, I ask, What's normal?
Then the conversation ends.
(56:36):
See you![Laughs.]
With a smile and shaking hands,okay, waving hands.
Okay, see you then.
It's great to meet with you andyour dog who is blind.
No dog can see.I am blind!
[Laughs.]
One time, a family approached me and askedthat question, who of them can't see?
(57:01):
They asked the question,not me, but to my girlfriend.
She used to those situations,and she kept silent when they have
to direct their question to me, but theydirected their question to someone else.
She got silent and I say, It depends.
Some days, I'm being blind,some days my dog.
(57:26):
Mondays and Wednesday, I'm blind.
Tuesdays and Thursday, she is.
[Laughs.]
What was the reaction?
They scared and go away.
[Laughs.]
Because I think they took it seriously.
Oh! Stop scaring people, Kemal!
I think they terrified.
(57:47):
They realized that I'm a part of an alienspecies, a member of an alien species.
Oh, now they can see Mondaysand Wednesday, but the other days?
Oh, my God![Laughs.]
Okay, I have a last question for you.
Of course.
It's about people you might have met who
(58:09):
count in your career and who have maybe
motivated you, maybe showed you thingsthat you didn't know before.
If you have one or two peopleto name, who would it be and why?
We already mentioned about Lachi.
I've been learning a lotfrom Lachi, and I'm still learning.
Also, all members of the leadershipof RAMPD and the Team RAMPD,
(58:33):
Arthur, Anya, and Sal, I'm learning a lot fromthem also and from all the pro members,
our members of the committees.
These are the people that Iwould like to shout out.
But there's one person Iwould like to highlight.
His name is Stephen Letnes,founder and CEO of Able Artist Foundation,
(58:55):
as I think I mentioned about himbefore in this episode.
He's my mentor, colleague,and dear friend.
He made the greatest impact to my life and career
because without this foundation,
I won't have a career in the United States.
(59:15):
Without himself, I won't
some IMDb credits till now.
He was a guy that pretty, let's say,
mature, extremely talented, wise, and
(59:35):
also really - how can I say?An excellent professional.
I've been learning a lotfrom him how to handle business
relations, how to handle projects.
He hired me for a couple of projects.
I was able to work as a composer assistantand the additional music writer
(59:56):
in a couple of projects like"Surpassing Sight" or "Possibilities,"
produced by AFB, directed by Bill Sarine,American Foundation for the Blinds.
It was a great documentary.
Also, I was able to workas the co-composer
in a project with him, "Love & Taxes."
It's a feature comedy,romantic comedy film.
(01:00:21):
Also, without him, I don't haveconnections with publishing companies.
Without him, I won't havemusic onboarded with Hitlist Music.
Without that, the Mattel won'tsynch my music for the World's
First Blind Barbie Doll campaign andWorld's First Black Barbie Doll birthday.
(01:00:48):
Also, without that, I wasn't ableto meet with the Karina Sturm,
a German journalist and director,who also identify as disabled.
Now we're working togetherin a documentary about intersectionality
in disability cultureand disability justice.
(01:01:09):
Without him, maybe I will -
I will have some accomplishments.
I don't know.
But without him, I can'tachieve them that fast.
And without him, I can't be able tobuild a career and build a professional
(01:01:30):
character of a media composer.
We're still working together.
Now, I became a board memberof Able Artist Foundation most recently.
He was kind enoughto invite me to the board.
I think I am the first board memberwho was a former foundation member,
(01:01:54):
Able Artist Foundation member.
So Steve has the greatest impactin my career, in my life.
I learned how to be a...
I've learned how to be a, yes, I can say,I'm a professional media composer
with a visual disability from him.
I can't be thankful enough for his efforts
(01:02:18):
and for his friendship and mentorship.
Thank you so much.That I can say.
It's very interesting.
Also, it's full of connections, your life.
It's great to be able to have onefoot in the States and to be able
(01:02:40):
to do things in the industry over there
and make the things evolve in Turkey.
So yeah, very well done.
Thank you so much, Diane.
I really try to create a worldthat I really want to live in.
With my music, with my attitude,
(01:03:04):
with my opinions, and with trying to
affect people and affectthe culture of the society.
But we're all doing that.
You're doing that, all our members,RAMPD members doing that.
(01:03:24):
There are disabled professionals indifferent industries that are doing that.
We are a really big community, andwe have a really great family in RAMPD.
So yes, it's a community, but time totime, I feel like we are like a family
because we're helping each other.
I'm not helping, not say helping,but connecting with each other,
(01:03:48):
collaborating,and we become bigger and better.
So I'm thankful, highly thankfulfor our community, for the RAMPD, for
all members of the disability community
itself, because we are the bravest ones.
(01:04:08):
We are the most powerful ones.
That's why we are that -
We will be successful a lot in the future.
And proud to fight.
It's really that we are happyto fight together, which is great.
(01:04:31):
Yeah, of course.Also, I love the taste of blood.
[Laughs.]
I can't say that.
Sorry, Sorry.
I didn't say that as a memberof the leadership, but I say as
a media composer in Turkey,so I never run away from a great fight.
That's what we do in the disabilitycommunity, right?
(01:04:54):
We never run away from a great fight.
True.
Well, thank you so muchfor all your insights and stories.
It was really fascinating.
I wish you a fantastic day and talk soon.
Thank you so much, Diane.
Thank you so much inviting mefor this amazing conversation.
(01:05:14):
I hope you have an amazing day, too.
Thank you. Bye.
Bye-bye..
♪ Closing theme music ♪
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