February 21, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Traci Foster, a Canadian-based artist and educator living in Regina in Canada.
During the interview, Traci Foster mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section. Access Traci Foster’s resources
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with
Traci Foster, a Canadian-based artist
and educator living in Regina in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby Traci Foster during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Guitar playing - Introduction for the Listen to Dis' video ♪
(01:27):
Listen to Dis.
Bring your joy, bring your shit,bring yourself.
The beautiful thing aboutListen to Dis is that
everyone comes from a different place.
We're not like, this isn't justa spinal cord injury acting group.
(01:48):
It's people with autism,people with spina bifida, anything.
And you don't even reallyneed to identify with disability.
If you want to practice artand make art with us, you're welcome.
But it's a place where you can go andbe accepted no matter your difference.
(02:08):
When I think of LTD and the folks withinthe organization, I think of family.
We're close.
Those of us that havebeen around for a while.
We're fairly, I think, open
to new family members because people
(02:28):
identify through that wordquite consistently and pretty quickly.
I first became aware of Listen to Dis Community Arts Organization
in my work at the Artesian.
It's a foundational partof the programming at the Artesian.
Listen to Dis and the folks involved withit make up something that is very large.
(02:51):
I'd love to say that it's about defianceor it's about great art
or it's about therapy or it's about community, but all those things together
don't come close, it seems.
Listen to Dis is a communityof artists that give people
the opportunity to experiencecrip culture through their art.
The ability to pull storiesand to give space to those and
(03:15):
to develop those in a way that pulls outthings for me that I would not
get the chance to say in this way.
I would not be where I am.
I would not be studyingfor a Master's of Fine Arts.
I don't actually know what I'd be doing.
I feel like working with Listen to Dis
over the years has just molded me and
(03:38):
helped me grow into even being able to say,
yes, I'm a theater artist, period.
♪ Guitar playing and voice singing ♪I'm stronger every day.
I've got my faith.
I've got no time to waste
(03:59):
to get to where I need to be.
I got my back to the wall.
I got nowhere to fall.
I'm standing up tall.
Watch me walk across that river.
Look the devil in the eye.
(04:23):
End of the excerpt.
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Traci Foster,who is a Canadian-based artist
and educator living in Regina in Canada.Welcome, Traci.
Thank you so much, Diane.
(04:44):
My pleasure to be here.
Shared pleasure because we're goingto have to talk about a very vast
work that you're doing.
I love that you're working with so many
intersectionalities and domains in music,
but in arts in general and research.
(05:06):
We will talk about that.
But I wanted to first welcome you andask you if you could introduce yourself,
tell us a little bit your backgroundand what led you to the arts and music
and singing, voice,
Tell us a little bit about you, about howall this arts attraction got started.
(05:31):
Well, I guess, I mean,I usually now preference by saying,
I started to dance at three,
meaning I started to be on stage at three with
tap and ballet and Ukrainian dancing.
And then I added baton and other things
(05:54):
and did that into mid-adolescence.
So I had a very strong relationship with
performance and music when I was young,
and I think partially because I
was very awkward in my social skills and
(06:14):
in conversation, I was very, very shy.
So I used the arts as as a wayin which to express and communicate.
And then swayed awayfrom that a little bit.
I did hair.
I studied in such, and I did hair,competed and did sculptural
hair competitions and stuff like that.
And then I found my waytowards performance as a mature student.
(06:39):
So I started studying at the Universityof Regina, and I was studying
theater, even though theaterwasn't actually a main interest.
I loved the work that actorsdid to prepare themselves to work.
So I began to study theater, and I
(07:00):
had a very difficult time keeping up and,
I don't know if fitting in is the properterm, but I didn't feel like I belonged
there a lot, and that was difficult.
And somewhere early into the study,about halfway through, I met an artist
who invited the possibility, I'llbe very careful to say, the possibility
(07:23):
of me leaving school and pursuingmy passions outside of the institute.
And that, in fact, is what I did.
So I began to do self-study in places like
Toronto, and Vancouver, and LA, and such,
and got really interested in the art
(07:49):
rooms, the process rooms I was finding.
And at that time, I wouldn't have usedthe word access, but in many ways, access
was being provided to accommodate me
in ways that just really what it translated
into is I felt like I belonged.
(08:09):
I didn't feel like I wasn't partof what was happening or couldn't
keep up with what was happening.
So I just started to do what I just nowsummarize as my life learning
because it just continues to go.
And in 2006, one of my friends/teachers
(08:31):
from Toronto was working on a project
with a student of hers named Kazumi, and
they created a show called The CP Salon.
And so Fides Krucker is her name,and she and Kazumi decided they
would tour that show in Western Canada.
(08:54):
So I produced that show, co-produced thatshow with an organization here in Regina,
and we held a four-day workshopwith Fides, Kazumi and myself leading.
And just by the sheer number,the sheer interest, the dedication,
the number of people who attendedfor those four days,
which was the number was 24,we were able to see,
(09:16):
and so was another organization that workswith our social change,
that there was a void in our sector around
providing opportunity for disabled people.
So I was hired to start doing workshops,eventually became an artist in residence
for this organization calledCommon Weal Community Arts Organization.
(09:38):
And I worked really closely with them and South Saskatchewan Independent Living Centre
as an artist in residence to startdoing individual work with disabled people
interested in the arts and develop groupwork and workshops, as well as
facilitate other artists to do the same.
(10:00):
And that was very, very successful.
And we started making an impact inour little city of Regina by showing up
and having people who people were notused to seeing on stage, on stage.
And then that culminated intoa group being formed
(10:20):
called Listen to This Voice, and eventually
a nonprofit being founded by me in 2014.
And then things changed quite a lot. It was very -
It was very creative community...
Creative community art-driven through that period, although
(10:43):
myself and a few others were workingas emerging professional artists.
In 2014, I was invitedinto the University of Regina.
There had been an unfortunate situation
with a student who was a quadriplegic
and studying theater, and she was...
(11:05):
There were so many barriers being put up for her to
exist inside of the program.
And eventually, she was askedto consider finding another interest
so that she would be ableto succeed in the words of the professor.
So I was contacted to come in,and I guess it was a cleanup situation,
(11:28):
but I wouldn't have seen it as that then.
I didn't know overtly.
So I was called in, and I co-taught aclass called Devising Inclusive Theater.
And we had that woman and fourother people who use wheelchairs that are
interested in performance, and one personthat lived with invisible disability.
(11:52):
And we worked through this classto understand disability art
and culture through conversation andwatching videos and learning together.
And then I used the somatic processesthat I use as an artist and as a
trauma-informed therapist to work,
not as therapy, but work with an eye
(12:16):
on belonging, feelings being safe enoughto belong and developing content.
And we ended up putting togethera devise, original devised show that
was presented at the end of the term.
And then there was a hundredand some people that took it in
and people went wild.
(12:36):
They never seen four peoplethat used wheelchairs on the stage,
five, sorry, at the same time.
So people were a bit flabbergasted.
Plus, the content was very richand beautiful, and the performers
were rich and beautiful.
So it drew a lot of attention,and we were invited right then
after the show to perform at a...
(12:58):
What was it?
Cathedral Village Arts Festivalat a community arts festival
that happens yearly, and we agreed,and the rest is history.
We had a theater company, Boom,who started to show that show
around the city and the main theaters,and eventually, toured the province.
And then we created a second showshow, which got halted literally the day
(13:21):
that COVID shut the world down.
We were literally packed, trailers packedto leave after six weeks of rehearsal
and two years of development.
So us and many were interruptedin a pretty real way.
And in that show, we had live music.
So that was new from the first show.
(13:41):
And then we pivoted quite beautifullythrough COVID and did all kinds
of things online and createdradio shows and did things.
And then we started coming backinto in-person programming, things
had changed for a few of the memberswho were in the original theater company.
Two had moved, three had moved in total.
And so we started to play with the music.
(14:05):
And long story short,we created and founded a music ensemble
who also were carrying some of theoriginally written monologs and stories
within the music set.
And we have toured around Saskatchewanfor two and a half years now seeing
(14:26):
thousands of people and introducing,continuing to introduce people, really,
truly introduce people to the reality that
people that are disabled can, and arguably
should be represented or be seen on stage.
So, yeah, it's been a very wild
(14:49):
18 years, and then a really important
time to be present in this province who,at the beginning, when I began to really
be a little more politicized about it,a little louder and competent, I guess,
and louder about thingswe understood we were in a province where
(15:16):
there was no understanding at allof disability culture and belief.
As a matter of fact, there was a pushbackon whether it was legitimate.
It's been a big journey for all of us.
So there is a community partand a professional part, right?
(15:38):
Yes.
The professional part, is it partof the founding members or the initial
members, or is it moving a lot?Yeah, both.
Yeah.
So many of the founding members,thank you for using that term
because that's why we're here.
I shouldn't say many.
(15:58):
Some of the founding members havecontinued to develop
either as really committed creatives,
artists that work more from a recreational
perspective, but as importantly as otherprofessional artists in their contribution
to art. In that case,it's mostly in the city relative
(16:22):
to challenges from touring and such.
And then others have moved through topursue studies,
moving to actually feel confident enoughto advocate for themselves as students,
some in performance,some in other areas of interest,
but still working through the arts.
(16:46):
So yes, they reallyare interconnected.
Now, I love the question because right nowit's 10 years of nonprofit work.
So we are in a year of revisioningfor ourselves and looking at what we feel
from the inside of our experienceas a disability-led, a disabled-led
(17:07):
disability arts organization.
How can we bestwork or serve our community?
Right now, we're at a really -It's a challenging stage, actually,
of looking at what's really missing now is
equitable development of professional
(17:31):
artists that live with disability,representing of professional
disability artist's work,both in province and nationally and
internationally, and of course,the ongoing art service aspect
from a disability led perspective.
(17:52):
So we are considering...
Well, we're considering lookingfor organizations who are appropriately
funded to mentor so that theycan continue the really rich and vital
community work we have been doing
while we start to developthese other things for the purpose of,
(18:17):
again, continuing the growth ofrepresentation of disability art
and culture in Saskatchewan,which we're known still as the flyover,
well, us in Manitoba,the flyover provinces in Canada,
where disability culture is concern.
We want to work hard to make sure that
(18:39):
that dissolves as a way to be understood.
As someone who's a managing
all the activities of this kind of organization,
I know you have been working
in voice, in mask, clown.
(19:01):
I don't remember all the listof things you've done.
But how did all that build so thatyou finally say, Okay, all that,
I need to put it into an organizationor into several activities because also
you were doing a great workinto voice too, if I remember well.
(19:22):
Yeah.
How did it build?
I think, Diane, that there's two thingsthat come to mind.
I hope I'll get the wordright, coddle, coddlewomple.
I I found a new word that means moving
towards an unknown destination
with a purpose or something like that.
(19:43):
That feels a little bit like...
I truly felt like I found myselfin a word that I found.
And also, when I began to...
I was privileged enough as a person to
travel away and to places where I was finding
(20:04):
at that time,I'll be really clear,
I wasn't looking for places that wouldhold a disabled person because
although I knew that I haddifferent diagnosis,
and I knew that I struggled with thingsin a very overt way that others didn't,
like in school and in dance practices and stuff,
(20:26):
I was not identifying as a disabled
person, therefore a disabled artist.
So I was finding my way into places
that felt like, oh, they felt safe, and
they would acclimate, they wouldwork to regulate my nervous system
(20:48):
so it wasn't I'm anxious that I couldn'tparticipate or take things in.
So I was doing just this rich learning.
And then they intersected with the peoplethat I was engaged with in Regina.
I would think, well, all the studentsI know who I was much older
with because I came in at 28,they were always just freaking out
(21:08):
and expected to learn and perform.
And so I would bring this informationback, and in a very naive way,
in retrospect, quite honestly,I would offer to the of my ability,
some of these tools and these strategiesand these ways of working that were
more creative than they were systematic.
And that caught on a lot through that.
(21:31):
But I really just have,I hope it doesn't sound ignorant
or aloof, but I followed my needs.
Sometimes I didn't even understand whatmy needs were, but I actually
found my way into finding or followingsomething that then revealed to me.
Oh, well, Of course,I'm interested in voice.
(21:51):
It's the thing that I probably will leavethis Earth not fully realizing because of
the way my nervous system works and my
energy flares and crashes and stuff work.
So I really have stumbled uponthings that have allowed me to come into,
(22:14):
it's a little bit of a catchphrase rightnow or a trend, but an embodied presence,
which really understands it's my politicalright to be in my body in the way it is
and experiencepleasure like everybody else.
(22:35):
And that's no longer from a perspective
of trying to be the way others... a more normal or
average functioning person would be.It's very different. There are different patterns.
I don't have to talk to you about oranybody listening to this, really.
(22:56):
So, yeah, that's really how it's happened,and that's how it continues to happen.
I don't stop learning because I'm curious
about being here for myself and with
others in the service of the better goodfor all of us through the arts.
And there's, in my experiencein Saskatchewan, there's a lot of work
(23:23):
that has to be done for the world
to catch up to this idea that access is
a really important thing for everybody.
And I love to remind myself thatour productivity in this organization,
(23:45):
my own and others, is phenomenal.
And it's partially because Iwork quite diligently with this idea
that it's coming from us.
So if we don't know howto look after ourselves within it,
we're going to be hooped.
So we work quite a lot with things suchas somatic practices and voice work,
(24:05):
which sounds like singing, but it's notjust, and stuff like that, to stay as
engaged with ourselves and our well-beingas we possibly can in the moment.
Can we talk about yourFitzmaurice Voicework?
Yeah.
It's one of the lovesof my life, actually.
(24:27):
And it's partially because of what it...
Well, it's partially because ofthe people, of course, but the practice
That was the beginning of something thatwas so transformative for me as a person
and as an artist that I've not had timeto really, truly reflect on it fully.
But I met the founder of the work,who is Catherine Fitzmaurice,
(24:52):
just an incredible human.
Her son attended a workshopthat I was doing at the Banff Centre
for the Arts with Richard Armstrong.
That's extended vocal work.
And I had been engaged in that workfor quite some time, very awkwardly.
I love the space.
It was safe, but I was very awkwardin myself at that time.
(25:12):
And Saul Kotzubei was there.
And I watched him work.
I watched how he engaged with people.
I watched how he was very insightfulwhen people had a bias or a tokenizing
attitude towards people like myself.
And so long story short,he invited me to taste the work.
(25:34):
At that time, we didn't have Zoom,so we were doing it by literally
by our landlines on the floor on speaker.
So I touched the work with himthat was happening in LA and New York,
and he didn't persuade me. He invited me
to participate in the teacher's training
as the first Canadian, and I did.
(25:57):
And it was a very wild journey because the
work intersected with my art practice,
of course, that was why I was there.
But for me, more importantly,it intersected with some shifts
in my psychological and physiologicalhealth that I had believed
(26:17):
up until then weren't possible.
So, yeah, I practiced, and I really feellike it was at that point that I found
my voice, a way in which I could advocate
for myself and feel - not always awkward.
I'm always awkward, but safewithin my awkwardness and discomfort.
(26:39):
And so, yeah, it's a work that I love.
And then I quickly, when I started, also
was doing somatic experiencing work quite
regularly, and I started integratingthe two right away into the practice
because I was interestedin the integration of practices.
And now, as a result of that,Saul got very interested
(27:02):
in that and the whole organization has gotten interested
in how to work in a way that
asserts priority on understanding
the importanceof artists and the right of artists
to have regulated nervous systems asopposed to be in the performative
(27:27):
fury all the time.
That's really interesting.I mean, the thought of mixing everything
you've talked about, so the voice work,
but also the access needs, but also
the movements, but also wellness in general.
(27:52):
It's always fascinating to see howthese paths evolve in a way
because it's not given.
First of all, it can bevery complicated as a path.
It's great that...
I'm glad to hear that you were able to add
(28:14):
a little bit of bricks to everything
and to offer that and to work with othersto be able to develop these activities.
Yeah, it's a real gift,and it really has...
Disability-led, for example, I remember.
I literally remember the dayin the person who said, well,
(28:35):
you folks are a disabilityled disability arts organization.
I don't know how many we havein Canada, let alone in Saskatchewan.
Here's us going, we're what?
Because we hadn't heard the term before,and he had just been to a conference
in the UK and brought it back with him.
He was an artist we were working with.So there was that.
And then not that long ago,three years ago, I think it was,
(28:57):
I heard the phrase creation as care.
Well, that was it for me because thatIf I was going to get the tattoo
that I continue to wonder if I everwill before I leave this planet, it
might be that, but might be other things.
Anyway, Creation as care.
That would be the summary of all my work.
(29:17):
I've always looked for workin I could feel better
than I typically do in my body.
That's changed now.
But the offering of placesthat intersect...
As a disabled person, I can'tremove care from my desire to create.
It's never worked for me.
(29:38):
I have a lot of burnout experience,and I see that in others.
So that phrase, creation as care, makes
my heart thump because I feel like, yes.
And then I also feel like,why is that not understood?
It's just across the board, because
(29:59):
the better we are, the better we feel
in our skin, the more productive we are.
And that doesn't matter how we function.
That includes all aspects of diversity.
So, yeah, I love that.
(30:20):
So what are the current projectsthat you're working on?
I was trying to summarize it in my writingthat I shared with you, that I didn't
share the writing, but that I had doinga little outline, because I'm tired
today, and I was afraid my conversationalskills So it wouldn't be good.
But I'm like, Which ones do I share?
Share them all.
(30:42):
Well, you don't want to say that.That'll take a while.
But what projects?
Okay, well, I'll - Listen to Dis,which we acronym LTD.
The role I hold is as EDAD, so
executive director and artistic director.
I happen to be a founderwith all the founding members
(31:06):
and also do a lot of the creation workand programming and consultations.
So that takes up a lot of my timeand energy, quite honestly.
So most of what I'm focusedon is inside of that.
And I feel really fortunate, actually,
(31:31):
to be doing it and also to be doing it
with the people I'm doing it with.
And that's a truism.
Within that, I was like, what do I share?
Okay, well, what I'll share isthere's a project that I'm super excited
about because it intersectsthe disability like art service,
so the disability consultation aspectin education, as well as performance.
(31:56):
So our music ensemble, as I shared,they're called The Dripping Honeys,
and our theater company,they're called The Other Ordinary,
continue to build work, and thenideally, we're able to take that work
if we get funding out into the province.
So right now, we're buildingan initiative called the Axis of Access.
(32:18):
So it's like the Axis of Access.
And we're creating a living document withan organization called Saskatchewan Arts Alliance
that outlines the foundation
of access in our current landscape
for organizations and funders.
(32:42):
And it's modeled after the document "We See You, White America" that
was done just It's pre or during COVID.
And it's a demand of attention
to creating access within organizations.
(33:02):
And from from our perspective,what our initiative is to not only ask
people to build access or be transparentabout what they aren't able to do,
but let's do it as a province in the artsector with continuity
so that disabled people aren'treinventing, have to tell their story or
(33:23):
wander from place to place in time to timewhat people understand and how much
they're going to have to sharein order to belong, yada, yada, yada.
So there's the document that's beenin process for a while now, and it's
just about ready to be released,and it will be revisited every 12 to 18
months, hence the living aspect.
(33:45):
And it will be accompaniedwith the music ensemble in tour.
So the music ensemble will takethe show that we presently have out,
and eventually the new showwe're developing that's loosely based on
the history of disability culture.
And we'll take the stories and the musicout before we talk about the document
(34:11):
or the politicize stuff so that peoplesee themselves represented.
They get excited and their souls openbecause that's partially what art does.
And there's not as much defensiveness
or only analytical response to this very
political document that we're puttingforward or this movement in the province.
(34:33):
So that's something we're workingon right now, and there's various stages
or phases or stages, I guess, of that.
There's the document itself andall the promotion and the events
and all that are coming up.
There's the beginning of developmentof the new work, which is we just
did a four-week songwriting workshop
(34:55):
with artist Kyrie Kristmanson, who's
originally from here but lives in France.
So we want to write our own musicfor this particular song, not use covers.
And then write the monologsand stories, of course.
So there's that work.And then there's the work of maintaining
the level of, I mean, brilliant music and
(35:19):
storytelling that they're already doing.
So keeping the show that's currentand can move out alive.
Those are three aspectsin that one project.
So that's pretty important one.
And this documentwill be published live, right?
Everybody can access it.
Yeah, I can invite you to come.
We will have in-personand online introductions to it.
(35:45):
And of course, it is a Saskatchewan-basedinitiative, but it's not
for Saskatchewan only, obviously.
Let me say this for sure, Diane.
We've recently been very fortunateto begin to work with in our province.
There's this organization calledSaskatchewan Districts, and they work in
(36:07):
sport, culture, and recreation.
And the province isquite big, as you know.
So there's large chunks that each
district has.
So there's seven of them in the province.
And we started interacting and buildinga relationship with five of them.
And that's why our toursare as successful as they are.
(36:29):
We're no longer like we used to,just going out and hoping that the one
or who people who know of usand want us to come can build enough.
We've had such beautiful relationshipsbuilding and collaborations
with the district consultantsand EDs and such, and therefore
we've had big, big audience,and we continue to have big interest.
(36:52):
So this is really an important aspectfor us because we're no longer
representing largely only in Reginaand Saskatoon, the two main cities.
So this is a big time for us,and it's so fertile because we're all
learning so much together aboutwhat is in place and what isn't and such.
(37:14):
Yeah, I'm sure about that.
Also, this can be useful for everybody,the people who are curious,
what is happening in the arts right nowin terms of disability and culture?
What is happening?
How are things progressing?
That's very important.
(37:34):
Thank you for doing that.
Thank you.Yeah, it feels important.
We feel lucky becausewe're just doing our thing.
Right now, I'm working very diligently at figuring out how we can reflect on what we do
because we are prettyproductive, and it continues to go,
and it continues to grow.
But the reflection on it wouldhelp us to be able to address the,
(37:56):
how are you doing this?
Or how did you do this?
Or give us some tools, because really,a lot of it, it sounds so flippant.
But it's likefollowing the path of the heart
in a gaggle of disabled people who have
a desire to work as artists and also
(38:16):
so reclaim their right for the better good
of all of the people,
the broader community of disabled peoplein the province and beyond.
It sounds really big, but really,it's just moving along in its own way
following one thing to another.
(38:37):
I have a related question, andI like this question because everybody
has a different notion or definition ofaccessibility in the arts or disability in the arts.
What is it for you to workin accessibility in the arts
or disability culture?
What does it mean for you?
(38:58):
Oh... you know, this one makes me shy,and I'm not sure why.
I'm going to look at my notes again.
I recently had a...
Last week I had an interview, and I truly feel
a massive honor to be working
(39:21):
in disability art at this timein history, and not because I like
the fight, because I really don't.It's exhausting.
However, I love the people
and the camaraderie, the true
relationship and community developmentthat I've experienced within this work,
(39:46):
which is very different to what I haveexperienced outside of the disability
cultural and disability artwork.
It's not that I didn'thave community, but this is really...
I feel like it's true.
So I feel extremely honored.
I also feel honored to be able to be working with this movement, this team of people,
(40:09):
people like yourself, to broadenthe understanding of other people,
so it's no longer thought about as like,I can't ask that, I feel awkward,
or that's not the way it goes.This is how the way it goes.
We're claiming voice and those things.
I feel very touched, maybe it's a betterword, to be a part in watching people
(40:33):
open their minds and their hearts,realize that their ignorance and
their biases were hidden in many cases.
And now, although it doesn't feel greatto have that realization, that opening,
being brave enough and courageous enoughto go, yes, okay, I made it through that.
(40:56):
Now, what can we do towork or support this initiative?
That feels like somethingthat I'm not able to define yet, really,
in a way, because it feels significant.
It feels like you'rea real part of something.
(41:16):
In a way, it is activism.
It is passive activism,but it is education.
Education, for me, it's activism.
It's showing people,look, this is real, right?
It's part of a world.
Some people never dealt withanything disability-related,
especially in the arts and knowinghow it is, the lack of access
(41:38):
and the preconceived ideas that artistswith disabilities cannot be artists.
And so with your work -
We both make the same faces when we...[Laughs.]
But thank you.
It feels, Diane, it's always...
I love speaking with just about everyone,
(42:02):
and It is, though, really different
when you know you're in a conversationwith somebody who understands the very
thing that we're talking about, becausewe're often in the role of activist
without thinking aboutit at at all, right?
I know my friends, some of my communityof artists who I was working with prior
(42:25):
to any of this work, once in a while,there'll be these statements,
which are mind-blowing, actually.
They're so rigid,but the intention isn't bad.
People will actually say, well,it's like these folks have become
(42:47):
your true community and your true friends.
It's like, yes, because they are.
But some people really can'tsee past difference that's very visible.
That's just heartbreaking.
Speaking of community and friends andpeople you have worked with,
(43:10):
I would like to ask you if you havepeople you're thinking of when you're
thinking of your career,when you're thinking of everything you've
accomplished so far,those who have counted,
if you have a few people you have in mindand you want to name them,
who would it be and why?
Oh, boy.
(43:31):
I'll name one of my earlier
teachers and then mentors, Amelia Itcush.
She was a dancer and a somaticpractitioner of the Mitzvah technique.
That's the first body technique thatstarted to unravel some of the tensions
I was led to believe that werejust by proxy of who I was
(43:56):
and what I was as a disabled person.
So Amelia passed on some time ago
But her work began to open me up to
understanding that I did belong,
I'll say that, in this body and in the world.
(44:18):
And also set me on the path
to understanding in my work, biodynamic
or somatic body, breath and voice work.
So very, very instrumental in my lifeand in all of my practices and all of
the work I do with community.
(44:39):
I'll say Petra Kuppers just because,you know, how not?
All the books.
I'll never forget that she was cominghere once to Regina, which was a big feat
in and of itself, and it was a while ago.
And it was like Mick Jaggerwas coming here or something.
I was so excited.
(45:00):
I was going to be in a boardroomon a committee in that same room.
And a number of things happened.
They became a bit ill andchose to do it virtually instead.
And no apology for...You know what I mean?
Just so very clear about howto look after themselves in the body
and mind that they're in.
(45:20):
And so that happened.
There was no question about it.
That was what was happening.
And then we were all in this really...
I don't like boardrooms.
I actually do havea visceral response to the black rooms
and black chairs with big tables.
And we were in one of those and I'm like, ugh,
I'm not going to breathe as easyeven with all my techniques.
And they came on and started talking to usand we're like, before we start,
(45:43):
I'm just going to remind you that we're all human.
So I want you to go lean into somebody,feel each other's body
and take a breath or two and justremember everybody in there has
the political right to be in their bodyin the way that they are, boom.
I feel like in some way,part of me stood on the table
and fainted because I was so excited.
(46:05):
Of course, that didn'thappen, but from a theatrical
perspective, that's how it felt.
It was one of the best meetingswhere all of us were different.
We were doing some initiativethat we didn't know each other.
There was no commonality in there,at all except for Petra and what we
were going to do with this conference.
Anyway, so that's somebody who I'd name.
(46:26):
And then last, but definitely notleast, possibly number one
for me are the people who I've gottento work with in Saskatchewan.
The people at the front lines of changing.
Truly, it sounds like an egothing, and it really isn't.
It's anything but.We've been bulldozed a lot.
But shifting culture in this province forthe last 18 years has been quite a thing.
(46:50):
And in the last 10 years with the theatercompany, and now this performance
company, but mostly the theater companybecause it was brand new.
There are people like John Loeppky, who, I mean, he's just a gem,
and he was going to possibly bea collaborator of mine and successor,
but he learned really early on that hewanted to do more of his own work
(47:11):
and would not be able to with allthe administration stuff.
So John Loeppky, who's a journalist,a disabled journalist and actor,
artist, Just big, big kudos.
Natasha Urkow, also one of the
founding members of the theater company.
I mean, quadriplegic at 18,sets her mind to continue to do the things
(47:35):
she was setting to do before the accident,and does all the theater work and other
things with us, becomes a programmer,and then went back towards
some of her own work and becameone of the main actors on CBC Push.
And also, I think her big ad campaignthat she went to France for
(47:57):
was lam cone, like an adapterfor putting lipstick on and stuff.
And she was the chosen model from Canada.
So people like that.
Shaylee Rosnes, who I work with rightnow, she's somebody who's an actor.
She's the main monologist and actorin the music ensemble, and everyone loves
to listen to Shaylee, really, truly.
(48:19):
She's got that thing.
And then she's also myadministrative companion.
Isn't it not appropriateto say assistance in this case?
Assistant.
Those folks and all of the othersthat I won't say their names
of because we'd be here for a while.
They truly...
I mean, it's a weird word to usebecause we fight this word, but they
(48:40):
inspire me daily, too, to continue onwith what we're doing together
and also just be a good person.
Yeah, fantastic people.
Some of the names.
I remember a workshop with Petra,and they made us breathe.
(49:00):
Just that, right?
Just the fact to, Okay, guys, we're goingto start this meeting by breathing.
[Laughs.]
Thank you.
I know, right?
Truly, we don't enter a meeting, andthat is administrative meetings, where
we don't ask for people, we tell peoplethat we need to move at the speed
(49:22):
of trust, not to ignite too muchactivation and have a symptom flare.
So we start our own personal meetingsand our meetings with other people, much
to the chagrin of some folks, I'll say,with touching in and breathing together
before we start to converse.
I mean, well, we swear by it because we're
(49:45):
still here against all odds in some ways.
I mean in terms of the sector.
Well, thank you so muchfor sharing all these wonderful stories
with ArtsAbly today.
There's going to be a resource page thatis accompanying this interview, and we're
going to publish everything you told us.
(50:10):
I look forward to really discovering more
of the documents, the document you
will share and the work of the company.
Also, there is a little videothat opens the interview.
It's not the full video, sogo to the Listen to Dis' website and look at
(50:34):
the work that is done, it's fantastic.
Thank you so much again.
Thank you so, so much.
It's been my pleasure.
Okay.
Have a fantastic day,and maybe soon in the artistic world.
Yes.
Until next time.
Okay. Bye.
Bye.
(50:55):
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with
Traci Foster, a Canadian-based artist
and educator living in Regina in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby Traci Foster during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Guitar playing - Introduction for the Listen to Dis' video ♪
(01:27):
Listen to Dis.
Bring your joy, bring your shit,bring yourself.
The beautiful thing aboutListen to Dis is that
everyone comes from a different place.
We're not like, this isn't justa spinal cord injury acting group.
(01:48):
It's people with autism,people with spina bifida, anything.
And you don't even reallyneed to identify with disability.
If you want to practice artand make art with us, you're welcome.
But it's a place where you can go andbe accepted no matter your difference.
(02:08):
When I think of LTD and the folks withinthe organization, I think of family.
We're close.
Those of us that havebeen around for a while.
We're fairly, I think, open
to new family members because people
(02:28):
identify through that wordquite consistently and pretty quickly.
I first became aware of Listen to Dis Community Arts Organization
in my work at the Artesian.
It's a foundational partof the programming at the Artesian.
Listen to Dis and the folks involved withit make up something that is very large.
(02:51):
I'd love to say that it's about defianceor it's about great art
or it's about therapy or it's about community, but all those things together
don't come close, it seems.
Listen to Dis is a communityof artists that give people
the opportunity to experiencecrip culture through their art.
The ability to pull storiesand to give space to those and
(03:15):
to develop those in a way that pulls outthings for me that I would not
get the chance to say in this way.
I would not be where I am.
I would not be studyingfor a Master's of Fine Arts.
I don't actually know what I'd be doing.
I feel like working with Listen to Dis
over the years has just molded me and
(03:38):
helped me grow into even being able to say,
yes, I'm a theater artist, period.
♪ Guitar playing and voice singing ♪I'm stronger every day.
I've got my faith.
I've got no time to waste
(03:59):
to get to where I need to be.
I got my back to the wall.
I got nowhere to fall.
I'm standing up tall.
Watch me walk across that river.
Look the devil in the eye.
(04:23):
End of the excerpt.
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Traci Foster,who is a Canadian-based artist
and educator living in Regina in Canada.Welcome, Traci.
Thank you so much, Diane.
(04:44):
My pleasure to be here.
Shared pleasure because we're goingto have to talk about a very vast
work that you're doing.
I love that you're working with so many
intersectionalities and domains in music,
but in arts in general and research.
(05:06):
We will talk about that.
But I wanted to first welcome you andask you if you could introduce yourself,
tell us a little bit your backgroundand what led you to the arts and music
and singing, voice,
Tell us a little bit about you, about howall this arts attraction got started.
(05:31):
Well, I guess, I mean,I usually now preference by saying,
I started to dance at three,
meaning I started to be on stage at three with
tap and ballet and Ukrainian dancing.
And then I added baton and other things
(05:54):
and did that into mid-adolescence.
So I had a very strong relationship with
performance and music when I was young,
and I think partially because I
was very awkward in my social skills and
(06:14):
in conversation, I was very, very shy.
So I used the arts as as a wayin which to express and communicate.
And then swayed awayfrom that a little bit.
I did hair.
I studied in such, and I did hair,competed and did sculptural
hair competitions and stuff like that.
And then I found my waytowards performance as a mature student.
(06:39):
So I started studying at the Universityof Regina, and I was studying
theater, even though theaterwasn't actually a main interest.
I loved the work that actorsdid to prepare themselves to work.
So I began to study theater, and I
(07:00):
had a very difficult time keeping up and,
I don't know if fitting in is the properterm, but I didn't feel like I belonged
there a lot, and that was difficult.
And somewhere early into the study,about halfway through, I met an artist
who invited the possibility, I'llbe very careful to say, the possibility
(07:23):
of me leaving school and pursuingmy passions outside of the institute.
And that, in fact, is what I did.
So I began to do self-study in places like
Toronto, and Vancouver, and LA, and such,
and got really interested in the art
(07:49):
rooms, the process rooms I was finding.
And at that time, I wouldn't have usedthe word access, but in many ways, access
was being provided to accommodate me
in ways that just really what it translated
into is I felt like I belonged.
(08:09):
I didn't feel like I wasn't partof what was happening or couldn't
keep up with what was happening.
So I just started to do what I just nowsummarize as my life learning
because it just continues to go.
And in 2006, one of my friends/teachers
(08:31):
from Toronto was working on a project
with a student of hers named Kazumi, and
they created a show called The CP Salon.
And so Fides Krucker is her name,and she and Kazumi decided they
would tour that show in Western Canada.
(08:54):
So I produced that show, co-produced thatshow with an organization here in Regina,
and we held a four-day workshopwith Fides, Kazumi and myself leading.
And just by the sheer number,the sheer interest, the dedication,
the number of people who attendedfor those four days,
which was the number was 24,we were able to see,
(09:16):
and so was another organization that workswith our social change,
that there was a void in our sector around
providing opportunity for disabled people.
So I was hired to start doing workshops,eventually became an artist in residence
for this organization calledCommon Weal Community Arts Organization.
(09:38):
And I worked really closely with them and South Saskatchewan Independent Living Centre
as an artist in residence to startdoing individual work with disabled people
interested in the arts and develop groupwork and workshops, as well as
facilitate other artists to do the same.
(10:00):
And that was very, very successful.
And we started making an impact inour little city of Regina by showing up
and having people who people were notused to seeing on stage, on stage.
And then that culminated intoa group being formed
(10:20):
called Listen to This Voice, and eventually
a nonprofit being founded by me in 2014.
And then things changed quite a lot. It was very -
It was very creative community...
Creative community art-driven through that period, although
(10:43):
myself and a few others were workingas emerging professional artists.
In 2014, I was invitedinto the University of Regina.
There had been an unfortunate situation
with a student who was a quadriplegic
and studying theater, and she was...
(11:05):
There were so many barriers being put up for her to
exist inside of the program.
And eventually, she was askedto consider finding another interest
so that she would be ableto succeed in the words of the professor.
So I was contacted to come in,and I guess it was a cleanup situation,
(11:28):
but I wouldn't have seen it as that then.
I didn't know overtly.
So I was called in, and I co-taught aclass called Devising Inclusive Theater.
And we had that woman and fourother people who use wheelchairs that are
interested in performance, and one personthat lived with invisible disability.
(11:52):
And we worked through this classto understand disability art
and culture through conversation andwatching videos and learning together.
And then I used the somatic processesthat I use as an artist and as a
trauma-informed therapist to work,
not as therapy, but work with an eye
(12:16):
on belonging, feelings being safe enoughto belong and developing content.
And we ended up putting togethera devise, original devised show that
was presented at the end of the term.
And then there was a hundredand some people that took it in
and people went wild.
(12:36):
They never seen four peoplethat used wheelchairs on the stage,
five, sorry, at the same time.
So people were a bit flabbergasted.
Plus, the content was very richand beautiful, and the performers
were rich and beautiful.
So it drew a lot of attention,and we were invited right then
after the show to perform at a...
(12:58):
What was it?
Cathedral Village Arts Festivalat a community arts festival
that happens yearly, and we agreed,and the rest is history.
We had a theater company, Boom,who started to show that show
around the city and the main theaters,and eventually, toured the province.
And then we created a second showshow, which got halted literally the day
(13:21):
that COVID shut the world down.
We were literally packed, trailers packedto leave after six weeks of rehearsal
and two years of development.
So us and many were interruptedin a pretty real way.
And in that show, we had live music.
So that was new from the first show.
(13:41):
And then we pivoted quite beautifullythrough COVID and did all kinds
of things online and createdradio shows and did things.
And then we started coming backinto in-person programming, things
had changed for a few of the memberswho were in the original theater company.
Two had moved, three had moved in total.
And so we started to play with the music.
(14:05):
And long story short,we created and founded a music ensemble
who also were carrying some of theoriginally written monologs and stories
within the music set.
And we have toured around Saskatchewanfor two and a half years now seeing
(14:26):
thousands of people and introducing,continuing to introduce people, really,
truly introduce people to the reality that
people that are disabled can, and arguably
should be represented or be seen on stage.
So, yeah, it's been a very wild
(14:49):
18 years, and then a really important
time to be present in this province who,at the beginning, when I began to really
be a little more politicized about it,a little louder and competent, I guess,
and louder about thingswe understood we were in a province where
(15:16):
there was no understanding at allof disability culture and belief.
As a matter of fact, there was a pushbackon whether it was legitimate.
It's been a big journey for all of us.
So there is a community partand a professional part, right?
(15:38):
Yes.
The professional part, is it partof the founding members or the initial
members, or is it moving a lot?Yeah, both.
Yeah.
So many of the founding members,thank you for using that term
because that's why we're here.
I shouldn't say many.
(15:58):
Some of the founding members havecontinued to develop
either as really committed creatives,
artists that work more from a recreational
perspective, but as importantly as otherprofessional artists in their contribution
to art. In that case,it's mostly in the city relative
(16:22):
to challenges from touring and such.
And then others have moved through topursue studies,
moving to actually feel confident enoughto advocate for themselves as students,
some in performance,some in other areas of interest,
but still working through the arts.
(16:46):
So yes, they reallyare interconnected.
Now, I love the question because right nowit's 10 years of nonprofit work.
So we are in a year of revisioningfor ourselves and looking at what we feel
from the inside of our experienceas a disability-led, a disabled-led
(17:07):
disability arts organization.
How can we bestwork or serve our community?
Right now, we're at a really -It's a challenging stage, actually,
of looking at what's really missing now is
equitable development of professional
(17:31):
artists that live with disability,representing of professional
disability artist's work,both in province and nationally and
internationally, and of course,the ongoing art service aspect
from a disability led perspective.
(17:52):
So we are considering...
Well, we're considering lookingfor organizations who are appropriately
funded to mentor so that theycan continue the really rich and vital
community work we have been doing
while we start to developthese other things for the purpose of,
(18:17):
again, continuing the growth ofrepresentation of disability art
and culture in Saskatchewan,which we're known still as the flyover,
well, us in Manitoba,the flyover provinces in Canada,
where disability culture is concern.
We want to work hard to make sure that
(18:39):
that dissolves as a way to be understood.
As someone who's a managing
all the activities of this kind of organization,
I know you have been working
in voice, in mask, clown.
(19:01):
I don't remember all the listof things you've done.
But how did all that build so thatyou finally say, Okay, all that,
I need to put it into an organizationor into several activities because also
you were doing a great workinto voice too, if I remember well.
(19:22):
Yeah.
How did it build?
I think, Diane, that there's two thingsthat come to mind.
I hope I'll get the wordright, coddle, coddlewomple.
I I found a new word that means moving
towards an unknown destination
with a purpose or something like that.
(19:43):
That feels a little bit like...
I truly felt like I found myselfin a word that I found.
And also, when I began to...
I was privileged enough as a person to
travel away and to places where I was finding
(20:04):
at that time,I'll be really clear,
I wasn't looking for places that wouldhold a disabled person because
although I knew that I haddifferent diagnosis,
and I knew that I struggled with thingsin a very overt way that others didn't,
like in school and in dance practices and stuff,
(20:26):
I was not identifying as a disabled
person, therefore a disabled artist.
So I was finding my way into places
that felt like, oh, they felt safe, and
they would acclimate, they wouldwork to regulate my nervous system
(20:48):
so it wasn't I'm anxious that I couldn'tparticipate or take things in.
So I was doing just this rich learning.
And then they intersected with the peoplethat I was engaged with in Regina.
I would think, well, all the studentsI know who I was much older
with because I came in at 28,they were always just freaking out
(21:08):
and expected to learn and perform.
And so I would bring this informationback, and in a very naive way,
in retrospect, quite honestly,I would offer to the of my ability,
some of these tools and these strategiesand these ways of working that were
more creative than they were systematic.
And that caught on a lot through that.
(21:31):
But I really just have,I hope it doesn't sound ignorant
or aloof, but I followed my needs.
Sometimes I didn't even understand whatmy needs were, but I actually
found my way into finding or followingsomething that then revealed to me.
Oh, well, Of course,I'm interested in voice.
(21:51):
It's the thing that I probably will leavethis Earth not fully realizing because of
the way my nervous system works and my
energy flares and crashes and stuff work.
So I really have stumbled uponthings that have allowed me to come into,
(22:14):
it's a little bit of a catchphrase rightnow or a trend, but an embodied presence,
which really understands it's my politicalright to be in my body in the way it is
and experiencepleasure like everybody else.
(22:35):
And that's no longer from a perspective
of trying to be the way others... a more normal or
average functioning person would be.It's very different. There are different patterns.
I don't have to talk to you about oranybody listening to this, really.
(22:56):
So, yeah, that's really how it's happened,and that's how it continues to happen.
I don't stop learning because I'm curious
about being here for myself and with
others in the service of the better goodfor all of us through the arts.
And there's, in my experiencein Saskatchewan, there's a lot of work
(23:23):
that has to be done for the world
to catch up to this idea that access is
a really important thing for everybody.
And I love to remind myself thatour productivity in this organization,
(23:45):
my own and others, is phenomenal.
And it's partially because Iwork quite diligently with this idea
that it's coming from us.
So if we don't know howto look after ourselves within it,
we're going to be hooped.
So we work quite a lot with things suchas somatic practices and voice work,
(24:05):
which sounds like singing, but it's notjust, and stuff like that, to stay as
engaged with ourselves and our well-beingas we possibly can in the moment.
Can we talk about yourFitzmaurice Voicework?
Yeah.
It's one of the lovesof my life, actually.
(24:27):
And it's partially because of what it...
Well, it's partially because ofthe people, of course, but the practice
That was the beginning of something thatwas so transformative for me as a person
and as an artist that I've not had timeto really, truly reflect on it fully.
But I met the founder of the work,who is Catherine Fitzmaurice,
(24:52):
just an incredible human.
Her son attended a workshopthat I was doing at the Banff Centre
for the Arts with Richard Armstrong.
That's extended vocal work.
And I had been engaged in that workfor quite some time, very awkwardly.
I love the space.
It was safe, but I was very awkwardin myself at that time.
(25:12):
And Saul Kotzubei was there.
And I watched him work.
I watched how he engaged with people.
I watched how he was very insightfulwhen people had a bias or a tokenizing
attitude towards people like myself.
And so long story short,he invited me to taste the work.
(25:34):
At that time, we didn't have Zoom,so we were doing it by literally
by our landlines on the floor on speaker.
So I touched the work with himthat was happening in LA and New York,
and he didn't persuade me. He invited me
to participate in the teacher's training
as the first Canadian, and I did.
(25:57):
And it was a very wild journey because the
work intersected with my art practice,
of course, that was why I was there.
But for me, more importantly,it intersected with some shifts
in my psychological and physiologicalhealth that I had believed
(26:17):
up until then weren't possible.
So, yeah, I practiced, and I really feellike it was at that point that I found
my voice, a way in which I could advocate
for myself and feel - not always awkward.
I'm always awkward, but safewithin my awkwardness and discomfort.
(26:39):
And so, yeah, it's a work that I love.
And then I quickly, when I started, also
was doing somatic experiencing work quite
regularly, and I started integratingthe two right away into the practice
because I was interestedin the integration of practices.
And now, as a result of that,Saul got very interested
(27:02):
in that and the whole organization has gotten interested
in how to work in a way that
asserts priority on understanding
the importanceof artists and the right of artists
to have regulated nervous systems asopposed to be in the performative
(27:27):
fury all the time.
That's really interesting.I mean, the thought of mixing everything
you've talked about, so the voice work,
but also the access needs, but also
the movements, but also wellness in general.
(27:52):
It's always fascinating to see howthese paths evolve in a way
because it's not given.
First of all, it can bevery complicated as a path.
It's great that...
I'm glad to hear that you were able to add
(28:14):
a little bit of bricks to everything
and to offer that and to work with othersto be able to develop these activities.
Yeah, it's a real gift,and it really has...
Disability-led, for example, I remember.
I literally remember the dayin the person who said, well,
(28:35):
you folks are a disabilityled disability arts organization.
I don't know how many we havein Canada, let alone in Saskatchewan.
Here's us going, we're what?
Because we hadn't heard the term before,and he had just been to a conference
in the UK and brought it back with him.
He was an artist we were working with.So there was that.
And then not that long ago,three years ago, I think it was,
(28:57):
I heard the phrase creation as care.
Well, that was it for me because thatIf I was going to get the tattoo
that I continue to wonder if I everwill before I leave this planet, it
might be that, but might be other things.
Anyway, Creation as care.
That would be the summary of all my work.
(29:17):
I've always looked for workin I could feel better
than I typically do in my body.
That's changed now.
But the offering of placesthat intersect...
As a disabled person, I can'tremove care from my desire to create.
It's never worked for me.
(29:38):
I have a lot of burnout experience,and I see that in others.
So that phrase, creation as care, makes
my heart thump because I feel like, yes.
And then I also feel like,why is that not understood?
It's just across the board, because
(29:59):
the better we are, the better we feel
in our skin, the more productive we are.
And that doesn't matter how we function.
That includes all aspects of diversity.
So, yeah, I love that.
(30:20):
So what are the current projectsthat you're working on?
I was trying to summarize it in my writingthat I shared with you, that I didn't
share the writing, but that I had doinga little outline, because I'm tired
today, and I was afraid my conversationalskills So it wouldn't be good.
But I'm like, Which ones do I share?
Share them all.
(30:42):
Well, you don't want to say that.That'll take a while.
But what projects?
Okay, well, I'll - Listen to Dis,which we acronym LTD.
The role I hold is as EDAD, so
executive director and artistic director.
I happen to be a founderwith all the founding members
(31:06):
and also do a lot of the creation workand programming and consultations.
So that takes up a lot of my timeand energy, quite honestly.
So most of what I'm focusedon is inside of that.
And I feel really fortunate, actually,
(31:31):
to be doing it and also to be doing it
with the people I'm doing it with.
And that's a truism.
Within that, I was like, what do I share?
Okay, well, what I'll share isthere's a project that I'm super excited
about because it intersectsthe disability like art service,
so the disability consultation aspectin education, as well as performance.
(31:56):
So our music ensemble, as I shared,they're called The Dripping Honeys,
and our theater company,they're called The Other Ordinary,
continue to build work, and thenideally, we're able to take that work
if we get funding out into the province.
So right now, we're buildingan initiative called the Axis of Access.
(32:18):
So it's like the Axis of Access.
And we're creating a living document withan organization called Saskatchewan Arts Alliance
that outlines the foundation
of access in our current landscape
for organizations and funders.
(32:42):
And it's modeled after the document "We See You, White America" that
was done just It's pre or during COVID.
And it's a demand of attention
to creating access within organizations.
(33:02):
And from from our perspective,what our initiative is to not only ask
people to build access or be transparentabout what they aren't able to do,
but let's do it as a province in the artsector with continuity
so that disabled people aren'treinventing, have to tell their story or
(33:23):
wander from place to place in time to timewhat people understand and how much
they're going to have to sharein order to belong, yada, yada, yada.
So there's the document that's beenin process for a while now, and it's
just about ready to be released,and it will be revisited every 12 to 18
months, hence the living aspect.
(33:45):
And it will be accompaniedwith the music ensemble in tour.
So the music ensemble will takethe show that we presently have out,
and eventually the new showwe're developing that's loosely based on
the history of disability culture.
And we'll take the stories and the musicout before we talk about the document
(34:11):
or the politicize stuff so that peoplesee themselves represented.
They get excited and their souls openbecause that's partially what art does.
And there's not as much defensiveness
or only analytical response to this very
political document that we're puttingforward or this movement in the province.
(34:33):
So that's something we're workingon right now, and there's various stages
or phases or stages, I guess, of that.
There's the document itself andall the promotion and the events
and all that are coming up.
There's the beginning of developmentof the new work, which is we just
did a four-week songwriting workshop
(34:55):
with artist Kyrie Kristmanson, who's
originally from here but lives in France.
So we want to write our own musicfor this particular song, not use covers.
And then write the monologsand stories, of course.
So there's that work.And then there's the work of maintaining
the level of, I mean, brilliant music and
(35:19):
storytelling that they're already doing.
So keeping the show that's currentand can move out alive.
Those are three aspectsin that one project.
So that's pretty important one.
And this documentwill be published live, right?
Everybody can access it.
Yeah, I can invite you to come.
We will have in-personand online introductions to it.
(35:45):
And of course, it is a Saskatchewan-basedinitiative, but it's not
for Saskatchewan only, obviously.
Let me say this for sure, Diane.
We've recently been very fortunateto begin to work with in our province.
There's this organization calledSaskatchewan Districts, and they work in
(36:07):
sport, culture, and recreation.
And the province isquite big, as you know.
So there's large chunks that each
district has.
So there's seven of them in the province.
And we started interacting and buildinga relationship with five of them.
And that's why our toursare as successful as they are.
(36:29):
We're no longer like we used to,just going out and hoping that the one
or who people who know of usand want us to come can build enough.
We've had such beautiful relationshipsbuilding and collaborations
with the district consultantsand EDs and such, and therefore
we've had big, big audience,and we continue to have big interest.
(36:52):
So this is really an important aspectfor us because we're no longer
representing largely only in Reginaand Saskatoon, the two main cities.
So this is a big time for us,and it's so fertile because we're all
learning so much together aboutwhat is in place and what isn't and such.
(37:14):
Yeah, I'm sure about that.
Also, this can be useful for everybody,the people who are curious,
what is happening in the arts right nowin terms of disability and culture?
What is happening?
How are things progressing?
That's very important.
(37:34):
Thank you for doing that.
Thank you.Yeah, it feels important.
We feel lucky becausewe're just doing our thing.
Right now, I'm working very diligently at figuring out how we can reflect on what we do
because we are prettyproductive, and it continues to go,
and it continues to grow.
But the reflection on it wouldhelp us to be able to address the,
(37:56):
how are you doing this?
Or how did you do this?
Or give us some tools, because really,a lot of it, it sounds so flippant.
But it's likefollowing the path of the heart
in a gaggle of disabled people who have
a desire to work as artists and also
(38:16):
so reclaim their right for the better good
of all of the people,
the broader community of disabled peoplein the province and beyond.
It sounds really big, but really,it's just moving along in its own way
following one thing to another.
(38:37):
I have a related question, andI like this question because everybody
has a different notion or definition ofaccessibility in the arts or disability in the arts.
What is it for you to workin accessibility in the arts
or disability culture?
What does it mean for you?
(38:58):
Oh... you know, this one makes me shy,and I'm not sure why.
I'm going to look at my notes again.
I recently had a...
Last week I had an interview, and I truly feel
a massive honor to be working
(39:21):
in disability art at this timein history, and not because I like
the fight, because I really don't.It's exhausting.
However, I love the people
and the camaraderie, the true
relationship and community developmentthat I've experienced within this work,
(39:46):
which is very different to what I haveexperienced outside of the disability
cultural and disability artwork.
It's not that I didn'thave community, but this is really...
I feel like it's true.
So I feel extremely honored.
I also feel honored to be able to be working with this movement, this team of people,
(40:09):
people like yourself, to broadenthe understanding of other people,
so it's no longer thought about as like,I can't ask that, I feel awkward,
or that's not the way it goes.This is how the way it goes.
We're claiming voice and those things.
I feel very touched, maybe it's a betterword, to be a part in watching people
(40:33):
open their minds and their hearts,realize that their ignorance and
their biases were hidden in many cases.
And now, although it doesn't feel greatto have that realization, that opening,
being brave enough and courageous enoughto go, yes, okay, I made it through that.
(40:56):
Now, what can we do towork or support this initiative?
That feels like somethingthat I'm not able to define yet, really,
in a way, because it feels significant.
It feels like you'rea real part of something.
(41:16):
In a way, it is activism.
It is passive activism,but it is education.
Education, for me, it's activism.
It's showing people,look, this is real, right?
It's part of a world.
Some people never dealt withanything disability-related,
especially in the arts and knowinghow it is, the lack of access
(41:38):
and the preconceived ideas that artistswith disabilities cannot be artists.
And so with your work -
We both make the same faces when we...[Laughs.]
But thank you.
It feels, Diane, it's always...
I love speaking with just about everyone,
(42:02):
and It is, though, really different
when you know you're in a conversationwith somebody who understands the very
thing that we're talking about, becausewe're often in the role of activist
without thinking aboutit at at all, right?
I know my friends, some of my communityof artists who I was working with prior
(42:25):
to any of this work, once in a while,there'll be these statements,
which are mind-blowing, actually.
They're so rigid,but the intention isn't bad.
People will actually say, well,it's like these folks have become
(42:47):
your true community and your true friends.
It's like, yes, because they are.
But some people really can'tsee past difference that's very visible.
That's just heartbreaking.
Speaking of community and friends andpeople you have worked with,
(43:10):
I would like to ask you if you havepeople you're thinking of when you're
thinking of your career,when you're thinking of everything you've
accomplished so far,those who have counted,
if you have a few people you have in mindand you want to name them,
who would it be and why?
Oh, boy.
(43:31):
I'll name one of my earlier
teachers and then mentors, Amelia Itcush.
She was a dancer and a somaticpractitioner of the Mitzvah technique.
That's the first body technique thatstarted to unravel some of the tensions
I was led to believe that werejust by proxy of who I was
(43:56):
and what I was as a disabled person.
So Amelia passed on some time ago
But her work began to open me up to
understanding that I did belong,
I'll say that, in this body and in the world.
(44:18):
And also set me on the path
to understanding in my work, biodynamic
or somatic body, breath and voice work.
So very, very instrumental in my lifeand in all of my practices and all of
the work I do with community.
(44:39):
I'll say Petra Kuppers just because,you know, how not?
All the books.
I'll never forget that she was cominghere once to Regina, which was a big feat
in and of itself, and it was a while ago.
And it was like Mick Jaggerwas coming here or something.
I was so excited.
(45:00):
I was going to be in a boardroomon a committee in that same room.
And a number of things happened.
They became a bit ill andchose to do it virtually instead.
And no apology for...You know what I mean?
Just so very clear about howto look after themselves in the body
and mind that they're in.
(45:20):
And so that happened.
There was no question about it.
That was what was happening.
And then we were all in this really...
I don't like boardrooms.
I actually do havea visceral response to the black rooms
and black chairs with big tables.
And we were in one of those and I'm like, ugh,
I'm not going to breathe as easyeven with all my techniques.
And they came on and started talking to usand we're like, before we start,
(45:43):
I'm just going to remind you that we're all human.
So I want you to go lean into somebody,feel each other's body
and take a breath or two and justremember everybody in there has
the political right to be in their bodyin the way that they are, boom.
I feel like in some way,part of me stood on the table
and fainted because I was so excited.
(46:05):
Of course, that didn'thappen, but from a theatrical
perspective, that's how it felt.
It was one of the best meetingswhere all of us were different.
We were doing some initiativethat we didn't know each other.
There was no commonality in there,at all except for Petra and what we
were going to do with this conference.
Anyway, so that's somebody who I'd name.
(46:26):
And then last, but definitely notleast, possibly number one
for me are the people who I've gottento work with in Saskatchewan.
The people at the front lines of changing.
Truly, it sounds like an egothing, and it really isn't.
It's anything but.We've been bulldozed a lot.
But shifting culture in this province forthe last 18 years has been quite a thing.
(46:50):
And in the last 10 years with the theatercompany, and now this performance
company, but mostly the theater companybecause it was brand new.
There are people like John Loeppky, who, I mean, he's just a gem,
and he was going to possibly bea collaborator of mine and successor,
but he learned really early on that hewanted to do more of his own work
(47:11):
and would not be able to with allthe administration stuff.
So John Loeppky, who's a journalist,a disabled journalist and actor,
artist, Just big, big kudos.
Natasha Urkow, also one of the
founding members of the theater company.
I mean, quadriplegic at 18,sets her mind to continue to do the things
(47:35):
she was setting to do before the accident,and does all the theater work and other
things with us, becomes a programmer,and then went back towards
some of her own work and becameone of the main actors on CBC Push.
And also, I think her big ad campaignthat she went to France for
(47:57):
was lam cone, like an adapterfor putting lipstick on and stuff.
And she was the chosen model from Canada.
So people like that.
Shaylee Rosnes, who I work with rightnow, she's somebody who's an actor.
She's the main monologist and actorin the music ensemble, and everyone loves
to listen to Shaylee, really, truly.
(48:19):
She's got that thing.
And then she's also myadministrative companion.
Isn't it not appropriateto say assistance in this case?
Assistant.
Those folks and all of the othersthat I won't say their names
of because we'd be here for a while.
They truly...
I mean, it's a weird word to usebecause we fight this word, but they
(48:40):
inspire me daily, too, to continue onwith what we're doing together
and also just be a good person.
Yeah, fantastic people.
Some of the names.
I remember a workshop with Petra,and they made us breathe.
(49:00):
Just that, right?
Just the fact to, Okay, guys, we're goingto start this meeting by breathing.
[Laughs.]
Thank you.
I know, right?
Truly, we don't enter a meeting, andthat is administrative meetings, where
we don't ask for people, we tell peoplethat we need to move at the speed
(49:22):
of trust, not to ignite too muchactivation and have a symptom flare.
So we start our own personal meetingsand our meetings with other people, much
to the chagrin of some folks, I'll say,with touching in and breathing together
before we start to converse.
I mean, well, we swear by it because we're
(49:45):
still here against all odds in some ways.
I mean in terms of the sector.
Well, thank you so muchfor sharing all these wonderful stories
with ArtsAbly today.
There's going to be a resource page thatis accompanying this interview, and we're
going to publish everything you told us.
(50:10):
I look forward to really discovering more
of the documents, the document you
will share and the work of the company.
Also, there is a little videothat opens the interview.
It's not the full video, sogo to the Listen to Dis' website and look at
(50:34):
the work that is done, it's fantastic.
Thank you so much again.
Thank you so, so much.
It's been my pleasure.
Okay.
Have a fantastic day,and maybe soon in the artistic world.
Yes.
Until next time.
Okay. Bye.
Bye.
(50:55):
♪ Closing theme music ♪
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