March 7, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Erman Türkili, a Musician and Assistant Professor at Bahcesehir University, in Istanbul, Turkey, and the founder of the House of Arts and Sciences in Istanbul.
During the interview, Erman Türkili mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section. Access Erman Türkili’s resources
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly has some conversation with
Erman Türkili, a musician and assistant professor
at Bahcesehir University inIstanbul, Turkey, and the founder
of the House of Arts and Science in Istanbul.
You can find the resources mentionedby Erman Türkili during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:16):
♪ Jazz piano music ♪Excerpt of the introduction video of First Steps of a Little Artist
Hi, this is Erman.
I'm the author of First Stepsof a Little Artist.
Today, I will be talking about the detailsof the book, how it works, our goal,
and what we aim with this book.
(01:38):
First of all, I need to mentionthat it's been 12 years since
I have been working on this book.
I wanted to make sure that this bookwill enable all the children
in the world to play the piano easily.
The most important detail of this book is (01:52):
instead of using musical notes, we are using
symbols for right-hand and left hand, as well as the notes.
So, now, instead of trying to find the noteon the piano, now we have the circle
for the right-hand notes, and we havethe triangle for the left hand notes.
(02:13):
Now that we covered the right-handand the left hand with triangle
and circles, now we are going to find out
how we know what the C, D, E, F is.
So instead of C on the piano,now we have the black circle.
Instead of D, now we have the yellowcircle, and instead of E,
(02:34):
now we have the green circle.
So if you look at the book very carefully,you will understand that
everything is going to be symbolized in this book,
so this is going to make it very easy forkids to learn it at their first glance.
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Erman Türkili,who is a musician and assistant professor
(02:58):
at Bahcesehir University in Istanbul inTurkey, and also the founder of
the House of Arts and Science in Istanbul.
We're going to talk about that.
Welcome, Erman.
Welcome to Turkey.
Thanks for doing this, and thanksfor having me on your podcast.
Thank you for being here.
(03:19):
I'm interested in your work becauseyou're doing a lot of work in teaching,
but you are also yourself a teacher.
Can you tell us where musicstarted in your life and
what you did yourself as a studentin music and what you're doing today?
(03:43):
Back in the Mediterranean part of Turkey,
I was a kid, at the age of...
I remember all the waydown to five years of age, and
I loved nothing outside of music.
Even still now, I have been a violinistfor the last 30 years, I'm still
(04:04):
very excited to be a musician, to be
a student of music on a daily basis.
I was in a city called Adana,in the Mediterranean part
of the country, Turkey.
Every semester, I would talk to my dad and mom
and say that I want to buy a piano.
(04:28):
Coming from a middle-class family,it's not all that easy to just
buy an instrument just because your kidwants to have one because it's expensive.
Every year they would say, Okay, so let'ssee your grades at the end of the year,
and then we will think I have that.
There's the first year in elementaryschool, second year, third year,
(04:50):
fourth year, and fifth year.
Unfortunately, I never had it.
And we moved to a different location in thecity and in the environment, my brother
had a friend who was a student at the conservatory at the time
because I never knew what conservatory is at the time.
We met with him, and one daywe went to his house
(05:12):
and I saw this big piano at his house.
And I said, What is this?
Because at that time, I had only
seen just the keyboard, the digital
keyboard, the small one.
He said, Well, that's the piano.
That's the upright piano
and you don't even needto have an electric cable to work this.
(05:34):
This is just an upright piano.
It works manually and acoustically.
I said, Can I just press the buttons?
I pressed the buttonsand he saw me doing this.
Later on, I didn't know that, but he
went to my dad and said, Erman is really
interested to play an instrument, sohow about I introduce one of my teachers
(05:57):
at the Conservatory to you, and maybeyou can arrange some lessons for Erman.
My father was like, Yes, of course.
We went to this teacher's house and,before any instrumental education
in Turkey, and unfortunately, they stilldo it, they check your ear, they say.
(06:19):
They push some buttons and they ask youto just imitate the sound of the note
that you hear from the piano.
That just never works for mebecause he would say, Give me
the sound of this note.
And I didn't understand evenwhat he was talking about.
So I was laughing.
(06:39):
And he thought I was notable to hear the note.
But I was just laughing for the fact thathe was asking me to give the note to him.
And I didn't understandwhat he was talking about.
So then he explained.
But first he explained to my fatherthat I would never be a musician.
I don't have the talent.
I don't hear the notes.
(07:01):
My father said, Can wetry it again tomorrow?
We went there again tomorrow,the next day, and he said, No,
I will not teach him.
My wife can teach him. So his wife came, and she did the same thing,
and I was laughing again.
She said, This guy will neverbecome anything in music.
(07:21):
She said, I will havemy daughter teach him.
Their daughter came in and they were like,Erman, I am going to play a note
on the piano and I will imitate itjust like a flute with my mouth.
Then I understood whatshe was talking about.
She was asking me to imitatethe sound of the piano.
(07:44):
Then I started doing it.
Then she was like, Mom, dad, come and seethis guy is actually able to do this.
Then later they figured outthat actually I have a perfect pitch.
But at first it was very funny.
They said - There was a very famouswas sentenced that he said, he said,
If this guy enters the conservatory, I willbecome a shepherd at the conservatory.
(08:08):
That was the sentencethat the professor said.
Then they said, Okay, well, now you understand how we are doing this.
So they started putting multiple voiceson the piano, and I was able
to divide them and give them back.
And so they said, Okay, now,if this guy doesn't win the exam, then
(08:30):
I will become I will become a shepherd at the conservatory because now I have a perfect pitch.
And so later on, I entered the exams,the auditions at the conservatory,
and I became a conservatory student,and I was actually the first one
to enter it, and they asked me eight notes at the same time.
So they basically press down eightnotes, and I was able to identify them.
(08:54):
Then I started becominga conservatory student at the age of 10.
In Turkey, that wasthe earliest you can start.
Now it starts at elementary school.
So I became a student,and I'm still a student of music,
and I still have perfect pitch.That's what I do.
(09:15):
That's how my music journey started.
But you're a violinist, right?You're not a pianist.
I'm a violinist.
At the entrance exam, they decidewhat instrument you can play
based on your finger length,and they check your finger and they
see how you can do and they said,Okay, you can choose two instruments.
I said, Okay, eitherthe piano or the violin.
(09:39):
I was dying to do the piano.
They said, No, you can do the violinbecause your fingers are not that long
for the piano, which is funny now.
My wife is a piano professor,and I can actually play the piano.
Well, actually, at the time, probablythey had teachers with no students,
and they wanted to fill up their studio.
(09:59):
They put me in a violin. I'm lucky to be a violinist.
I'm married to a pianist, but I'm lucky tobe a violinist, and we play together now.
So your studies were in Istanbul,but you didn't stay in Istanbul
for your higher education, did you?
No.
At first, I started actuallyin the Mediterranean part
(10:20):
of the country, not in Istanbul.
I did my middle school there,high school there, and the university,
the undergraduate there.
From Adana, I flew out to Americato do my master's and doctorate.
I did my master'sat Pittsburgh State University and
my doctorate at Florida State University.
At the age of 26, I heard the same thing.
(10:43):
They said, You became the doctor of music.
And I said, What is this?
I was just making music.
So I was very young becauseI enjoyed what I was doing.
So starting with the elementary schooluntil finishing up doctorate,
I never had a gap year or a gap month.
At the age of 26, I had my DMA
license, Doctor of Music and Arts license
(11:05):
from Florida State University.
And I think that I'm still a lifetimestudent of music, and that's what I do.
So How long did you stay in the States?
About seven years.
After that, I had about two, three music
teaching studios in Florida, in Alabama.
(11:28):
Then I decided to travel back to Turkey.
I moved to this historic,beautiful city of Istanbul.
I'm not from Istanbul, but I moved backto Istanbul, and I have been
living in Istanbul since then.
It's been 12, 13 yearssince I moved back from States.
When you came back, did you become a
(11:51):
teacher immediately, or what did you do?
At first, in America, I was an orchestraplayer in the symphony orchestras,
and I had music teaching studios.
I had a lot of students, privatestudents, and then I was also a member
of the orchestras in the violin section.
When I came back, I wanted to havea six months off to see how Istanbul
(12:16):
works, how Istanbul lives the day.
And so when does the daystart in Istanbul?
When does it end?
And then I figured out early enoughthat Istanbul never ends.
Istanbul is a 24-hourcity just like New York.
And so then I started teaching some.
I never became an orchestralplayer in Turkey.
(12:37):
I'm still not.
I do recitals with my wife throughout
many countries in Europe and also in Turkey.
Now I have two different education centers
in Istanbul, and I'm also a university
teacher at Bahcesehir University,where I teach violin and chamber music,
(13:00):
but outside of the university, I start teaching kids at the age of two,
to kids, and also I work in special education.
I work with autistickids using my methods.
That's at the House of Arts, right?
That's the House of Arts and Sciences.
What is the story behindthe House of Arts and Science?
(13:24):
Well, I couldn't find a job,so I had to find my own.
That was the story,actually, because I had music
teaching studios back in America.
When I came back here,I wanted to do the same here.
At first, I wanted to become a universityteacher, but I was so young.
I was at the age of 26.
Nobody hired meas an assistant professor at that age.
(13:46):
And so I started having private students.
And later on, I formed my first educationcenter that was named House of Music.
Then I wanted to always havescience classes and art classes
in the same place at a young age.
Students would come in and theycan do chess and they can do physics,
(14:08):
and they can do violin and pianoand guitar at the same time.
So that was the goal because I believe artand science It should always be together.
And so that was the story behind it.
So from House of Music, we turned thatinto House of Arts and Sciences, and at
a very historic building in Istanbul.
(14:29):
And that's what we still do.
We have the second location now.
Istanbul has two different sides.
One is on a Torian side, the Asianside, and there's the European side, too.
We have one center in the Asian sideand one in the European side.
That's what we do.
But mainly, our education centers are nowworking only in the field of music.
(14:53):
What made you start workingwith children with learning disabilities?
Back in US, I had a student.
One day, one family came and said,We have a student who is mildly autistic.
Well, up until that time,that was probably the first time
(15:13):
I heard that term.
I said, What is autism?
And his mom explained what it is.
She said, he just learnseverything normal, but then
he can act different sometimes.
He came into my class,and so I started working with him.
(15:36):
But the first class was very interesting.
He just, like a shark.
He would just travel around me.
He would just walk around meas I was telling him how to do
this song, how to play this song.
He would stop, play, and thenhe would start circling again.
(15:57):
After two classes,I called his mom and I said,
It seems like I'm unable to teach himbecause he is just circling around me,
and I feel like he's not listening to me.
So it might be better to maybefind a different teacher
who knows what this is all about.
(16:18):
She was like, How about in the thirdlesson, you ask him what
he learned in the first two lessons?
I didn't know that he'sa recording machine.
The third lesson came byand I said, Hey, can you tell me
what I taught you in the first lesson?He was like, Yes.
For 45 minutes lesson, he talkedabout the entire class, minute by minute,
(16:44):
second by second, with every detail.
I learned that actually he's listeningto me as he was circling around me.
It was quite an experience.He was a great violinist.
He was a great pianist, too.
We had great two years togetherwith him, and he would not
talk to me too much in the lesson,but he would always listen
(17:08):
and do what I tell him to do on the violin.
It was very interesting.
Then when I came back here -
Back in US, I had started working with kids
using symbols and colors, notwith that autistic kid, specifically,
but with the early-age students.
(17:28):
The reason was, I had a student,I still talk to them, Avery,
she was at the age of 10, andshe would come into my violin lessons.
She had a sister who was atthe age of three or two
and a half at the time, Edison.
Edison would be at the end of each class that we do with Avery,
(17:51):
and Edison would be like, Can I also play?
I would be like, No, you can't play.
It's too early.
She would be so devastated.
One day, her mom came to me and said,
Erman, can you maybe try with her?
I said, no, she's too young.
(18:11):
She cannot learn the notes.
So I denied that.
Later on, she came into my classfor about six months.
I tried very hard to teach her
how to read the notes.
The first month, she loved the violin.
(18:33):
At the end of six months, she hatedthe violin because it's just so difficult
to learn with the traditional methods.
And slowly, one by one, one day, I was driving on Interstate 10
in Florida and I said, How can Ido something different to teach her?
Because she's unableto understand everything I say.
(18:57):
All of a sudden, as I was driving,on I10, I said, How about instead
of saying the note names, I say colors?
Instead of saying C or Doin Europe, I say yellow.
Instead of the violin strings,I say, instead of saying GDAE string,
(19:19):
how about I say circle?
So I tried.
In the next two lessons,she learned about five songs.
For six months, it wasa struggle of nothing.
We started using symbols and colorsto learn, and that later turned into
(19:41):
a method that I worked on.
For about 12 years, I worked on the methodbefore I published The First Steps
of a Little Artist book.
With the book, we workin special education.
We teach autistic kidshow to play the piano.
The first book came out on pianobecause it's an educational approach.
The publication was easier on the piano.
(20:04):
Now we are working on the violinbook, the violin book, and the xylophone
will come out, and there's the ukulelewill come out, and there is going
to be a rhythm book for autistic kidsand also the early childhood kids.
We are using symbolsand colors to teach the kids.
That's how it all started,and that's what we do now.
Okay.
(20:25):
If we are a little bit moredetailed, right now, your book.
You also have an introduction videothat we will post,
we will share with ArtsAbly.
But basically, it's about now teaching
some teachers to acquire this method
(20:46):
so that they can also sharethis method with their own children.
Well, yeah, we do teach students, and we
also teach teachers to show them how they
can use this book in their education,especially at the age of two, three,
and four, they use the book until five.
(21:07):
With the five, kids slowlystart learning the alphabet.
And alphabet is also - The letters are also symbols, basically.
Once they start learningthe letters, they can easily
learn the notes, in my opinion.That's what we do.
At the age of five,we do a little transition
(21:27):
to learn the notes, but at firstwe start with only colors and symbols.
We have colors on the keyboard of piano.
The C is black and D isyellow and E is green.
There's orange for the F.
We have the colors on the piano.
We have stickers at the end of the book.
We have stickers that theyput on the keyboard.
(21:50):
Also, symbols are identifying our hands.
We have the circle handand we have the triangle hand.
Because at the age of three,who knows what right is,
what left is, and it's so difficult.
What we do is we have thesekids friendly markers.
We drove a little circle hereand a little triangle here.
(22:13):
Now they have the trianglehand and circle hand.
It's a lot easier for themto identify that way.
What they do is they look at the book andsee the symbols, and then they just found
that very same symbol on the keyboard,and they just play the note.
So easily, they can start playingthe melodies using this method.
(22:34):
Also the different notes length
are represented by symbols too, right?
Yeah, the size of the symbol changes.
If it's a little longer note,like a two beat long,
then the size of the symbol doubles.
If it's a dotted quarter,then it's a different size.
(22:56):
They can see this in the book clearly.
We also teach them howto compose with colors.
Oh, that's nice.
That's very important for me.
We have composition pages for the kidsbecause I do believe that it is very,
very important to compose an idea.
(23:18):
It doesn't have to be a melody.
They can compose anythingand that can help in their later life
to create something different.
The idea of creation isquite important for me.
What they have is theyhave symbols without the colors.
We ask them to color them,the symbols, and they can create
(23:41):
their own melodies based on the colorsthat they put on the blank symbols
that we provide.
How do you work with the children on that?
They first have to
acquire this method first as a player,
and then you sit with them and you say,Now it's your turn, compose a melody?
How do you do that?
(24:02):
Well, first of all, we start with justfinding the notes on the piano,
well, the colors and the symbols.
The first 26 pages of the piano,we have free fingering.
They can look at the symbol, play the symbol with any finger that they like.
Later on, we ask themto have designed fingers.
(24:23):
What we do is C has to be playedwith the first finger.
But what is first fingerfor a two years old?
What we say is, So Now you have the circlehand, and now you have the black finger,
the yellow finger, that's the D,and there's the green finger,
that's the E, there's the F,there's the pinky as being the note G.
(24:44):
With the A and be later on, we ask them todecide on their own because I like giving
children to decide what they want to do.
With two notes, we give themthe decision, and they can just play them
if they even want with their nose.
Because at the age of two,we do 20 minutes lessons.
(25:07):
We want to give them the ideaof freedom, creating something
and learning something different.
That's how we do it.
Then when the composition pages come,we give them the markers
with the blank circles, and we ask them, What notes
(25:30):
do you want to give to this white circle?
They say, Okay, this is goingto be the green, the note E.
The other one is going to be the red,the note G.
We have a page,the harmony page, I like to call.
I took counterpoint lessonsfor years and harmony lessons
for years, composition lessons.
(25:52):
But we asked them to lookat the Colorful Friends page.
What Colorful Friends page is,how in music we have the C, E, G.
When you play them together,that's a C major chord.
We say, these are good friends.
The black and the green and the red,if you put them together,
they're going to sound better.
(26:13):
What they do is, okay, soI have a black note here
that I colored, and now it's betterto use either green or the red.
That's basically a counterpoint class.
Then they say, okay,so I will play the green.
Now they have the C and E, and whenthey play together, they sound better.
We asked them to learnthe counterpoint in one page.
(26:36):
How does it work?
It works similarly for the otherinstruments, but something
like the xylophone or the ukulele.
One hand is the fourth handsand one hand is the melody hand.
Yeah. With the piano, we have twohands, circle and triangle.
(26:58):
With the violin,those symbols are different.
With the violin, the stringsare the symbols and the notes
are the colors on your finger.
With the ukulele, the same thing.
The different strings are differentsymbols, and we draw those symbols on
the backside of the bridge on the violin.
When they hold the violin,they see the colors and symbols.
(27:18):
What they do is, okay,so now we have,
let's say, the Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
They play circle, circle, star,star, and the yellow star, yellow star,
the first finger, and the black star.
So that's A, E, E, F sharp, F sharp, E.
Instead of saying that, we have circles.
The circles are the things that they startseeing when they are born, the first day.
(27:43):
It's a lot easier for them toidentify and understand with this.
With the xylophone,it's just like the piano.
So you have the colors for the notesand the symbols for the hands.
I see.
Right now, there is one book, there's going to be several different books
about this method.
Any plans for other projectsrelated to your school or your method?
(28:09):
Yes, we want to work with elderly
because what happens is at the age of two
and three, the biggest struggleis learning the notes.
At the age of 62, 63, it is the samething, learning the notes.
Because with the staff,it's very difficult to identify
(28:33):
the G, the E, the F, the A,and then the different sizes,
and identify them there,and then find them on the piano or
the violin, whatever you play,and then playing one note, even
Even the Twinkle Twinkle Little Star,you have tens of notes.
It is very difficultwith the elderly to play an instrument
(28:55):
or start an instrument.
What we do is we alsoteach them with the color.
At the first class, they start playing themelodies other than learning the notes
for about six months, finding themon the keyboard for another three months,
and then playing one song.
We teach elderly using the book again.
(29:15):
But we just change the repertoire.
We teach them songs thatthey like to hear, and we basically
apply that system to a regular song.
They also do it.
Now we are working on that, on the violin
and on the piano, because at a late age,
(29:38):
it is quite importantto use your fingers, use your eyesight,
and use your hearing.
If you use this on a daily basis,it is believed that the process
of dementia comes back to you way later.
It won't come back, but it slows
(29:59):
the process of dementia.
It doesn't removethe dementia of your life.
I hope one day it will,
but it helps elderly to do a different activity.
Am I mistaken or you alsohave a project for blind people?
(30:20):
Yeah.
What is that?
Well, actually, it is one of the goalsin life that I want to do.
I'm working on that for about,I don't know, five, six years.
One day, I went to a museum in Istanbul.
(30:40):
That was a museum calledDialogue in the Dark.
And in the museum, nine people
become a team, and then they travel with you
in a pitch-black environment,and they introduce Istanbul to you.
(31:01):
This museum, I hear that in about 60countries, they have this museum.
And in Turkey, in Istanbul,we have a museum that is here forever
because they sometimes do it.
This museum goes to a different countryand they stay there for about two years
in the country for one year.
But in Istanbul, it's for a lifetime.
(31:21):
When I went to that museum,
we were traveling in pitch-black, Istanbul.
They would take you to grocery store,
you hop on the ferry, and they basically
make you feel like, yes,you don't see it, but you can feel it
(31:42):
and you can hear it and you can touch it.
You would to the grocery storeand they would ask you, Find apples
and buy one kilo of apples.
You'd be like, How?
And be like, Okay, well, hold the apple and smell it
so that you will know that it's an apple.
(32:03):
It was quite an experience.
When I got out of that museum,our tour guide was a blind person.
His name was Ingen,and he inspired me very much.
I said, Can I havecoffee with you one day?
He's like, Yes, of course.
He's such a funny guy.
He's like, So one day we had coffee with him, and I said,
(32:26):
What does music mean for a blind person?
He said, Music is life.
I said, Okay, and we are goingto be friends for a lifetime now
because music is life for me too.
I started writing a musical journey
where all the blind people people
(32:46):
come into an auditorium.
There's a chamber orchestraon stage playing with candles.
The auditorium is pitch black dark,only the musicians see.
They're going to play songs, compositionsfrom seven different countries.
Two theater artistswill talk about a story
(33:10):
that goes through those seven countries.
Each time they travel toa different country in in their journey,
they talk about Egypt, and the orchestrastarts playing Egyptian composers.
In that auditorium, they're going to smell something different when the Egypt comes
(33:32):
When they go to India, the fragrancechanges in the auditorium and the songs
change in the chamber music orchestraand the storyline changes also.
That's going to be an experienceconcert, I like to call.
They will go to the stage.
Also, people with eyesightcan also come in,
(33:55):
but they will be blind in the auditoriumbecause it's going to be pitch black.
I want them to close their eyes
and be in an auditorium where they won't
see anything,but they will listen to the music,
they will hear the stories of those sevencountries, they will smell smell different
(34:16):
fragrances of those seven countries.
Hopefully, I'd like to add something else.
I want them to also touch something.
When the story goes to Africa,I want them to find that banana
tied somewhere on their chair.
I want them to find it on their chair.
(34:39):
So I want them to experiencesomething different.
And I have been working on this storyline.
I'm writing this story, and I'm alsofinding the compositions
for those seven countries, and hopefully, one day, we'll be able to do it.
Wow. It's a very interesting project.
The mix of feeling and smelling and
all the senses that you can really think of
(35:03):
when you don't consider sight, right?
That's what I want to do,and that's what I have been working on.
I'm almost done with the storyline.
The story starts in 1500s in Istanbul,and it goes to Egypt,
it goes to India, and there's no...
(35:24):
It's a fiction story. It goes to America and listen to jazz and comes to France and
smell different fragrances in the history of Paris.
We play French music there, and
the theater artist will be talking about
these stories in a very theatrical way.
(35:45):
There will different sound examplesin the concert.
They will be hearing the birds, andthey will be hearing the fairies, they
will be hearing the arrows being shot at.
It's a story, and it's goingto be an exciting story.
(36:05):
With all these experiences and projects
that you have with thinking of another
way of playing music or developingaccessible ways of performing music.
I always have this questionthat I really like, and it's about
accessibility in the arts, or sometimeswe talk about disability culture
(36:27):
because it's really what it is.
What does it mean for you to work inan environment where you promote
accessibility in the arts?
It means many things, and especially this last project
that I'm talking about, the musical journey.
When people go to a concert,
(36:49):
they experience a music that was composed
hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
But when I go to concerts,I see less and less people
that are blind, that are autistic.
(37:09):
In my concert, in my recitals,there's a rule.
If there's an autistic kid, and if the concert hall doesn't let
kids with autism, thenI'm not going on stage because art
should be accessible for everyone.
If...
(37:30):
I did special concerts
for kids with Down syndrome.
And some of those concerts were
some of the memories, I will never forget them.
I want all the artists, all theconcert artists, and musicians,
and theater artists to experience this.
(37:54):
That's why accessibility in arts should be
worked on even more every day,
but I see less and less every day.
Unfortunately, in Turkey, in Istanbul,there was a restaurant, for instance.
It was the dinner in the dark.
(38:15):
That was the concept. You would only saywhat you have allergies, your allergies,
and then they would serve you foodthat you would never know what it is.
But unfortunately,they closed the restaurant.
But I want to be able to promote concerts
(38:36):
and give concerts for children, especially,
who are blind.
My wife, we are very luckythat we have a student
who is living in a a very different partof the country, and we teach her online.
She is an incredible pianist.
But if we just say, Oh, she's blind,she cannot play the piano,
(39:01):
that would be such a loss because she plays incredible.
I will send you videos,and it's incredible.
Therefore, all of these examples tells usthat we should be more accessible
for everyone, and we should not limit our educations,
our teachings in also one area.
(39:24):
We shouldn't have an age limit.
We shouldn't have a student-type limit.
In my opinion, and every daywe're working on that more.
Yes. I mean, the preconceived notion of disability and music being so opposite
is so stupid in a way. It is not.
(39:46):
Very much so.
I'm happy to find people from all overthe world who are defending this.
Let's find a way.
There is no reason forthese students not to play music.
That's really nonsense.
(40:07):
Actually, Braille himselfwas a pianist, too.
And he has a piano method.
Yes, of course.
We found the book,and he actually worked on that.
Unfortunately, that is nottalked about quite as much.
We traveled to the different city justbecause in that city, there was a library
(40:30):
that we could find the books, and we canfind different ways of printing music.
We have all the audiobooks now,
and we can also have different printersystems, which you do now.
We just need to implement the differentmusic notation software so that actually
(40:50):
we can print out the Beethoven Sonatawith just a different
system, different notation.
We can think outside of the box,it's 21st century.
Exactly.
With new technology - in ArtsAbly,there has been a few musicians
who identify as blind and who haveshown that with the new technologies
(41:14):
that are developed today, we can easily use a device and have some
guidance or some audio voicesystem that they're used to.
With that, they can do anything.
My wife teaches every Saturdayat 9: 00 AM to our little student
(41:35):
who is blind, Ipek, and she's incredible.
Every Saturday morning is so much fun
for us because every day she practices.
And every week my wife gives a different songand plays that different song for her.
(41:56):
She records that.
Then the following week,it's a concert performance.
Normally, if she goes toa different education center,
it'll be like, I'm sorry, we can'tdo this because she cannot see the staff.
That's just nonsense now.
There's so manydifferent technologies.
(42:18):
Most of those people, if they don'tsee, then they hear better.
And they memorize better.
Yes. She has a perfect pitch, andshe memorizes so many different songs.
They are pianistic songs now.
They're not only kids' songs.
They are pianisticrepertoire now she memorizes.
My wife has another university student,
(42:40):
and he's able to see, but very difficult
for him to see anything.
What he does is he takes the photoof the song and then zoom in
and memorize everything.
She plays Chopin's and Beethoven sonatas.
It shouldn't be that easy to say no.
(43:05):
Yeah, and it's a good segueto what I'm going to ask next,
which is about - I believe that our lifeis full of encounters and people who
might have come to a part of your lifeand then it changes something.
Then you think in another wayand say that that's brilliant.
(43:25):
I was wondering if you had two or threepeople to think of, or maybe one,
to think of who really came to a partof your life where it motivated you
to think otherwise, or taught you a lesson that you're still
teaching today as a teacher, maybe.
Who would it be and why?
(43:49):
I have two people.
I have so many people, but lately,I want to say especially two
people, and they're both blind.
One is Ipek.
She's at the age of nine.
That's Saturday, 9 (44:03):
00 AM lessons for us, for my wife, and I'm a guest
of that lesson that I listened to them.
Also, our tour guide inthe Dialogue in the Dark museum.
He changed my life.
I think so differently after him.
He is almost at a talentlevel of an opera singer.
(44:31):
He has this baritonevoice that is so colorful.
I'm very sorry that I didn't meet with him
earlier, but every time I talk with him,
he makes me laugh It's just incredible.
This guy looks at lifein a very, very different way.
(44:55):
He says he became blind later onin his life because of a sickness.
He says before he was blind,
he was so scared of flying.
He says, Now I don't see.
I can travel anywhere.
He just makes everything so funny.
(45:17):
My way of looking at life has changed.
My way of seeing things has changed.
One day, I said - he uses bus systemin Istanbul and it takes
quite a while for him to go home.
I said, Can I drop you off?
That day, I had the car with me,and he said, Okay.
(45:38):
So we got out of the parking lot, and
step by step, as if he drove this direction yesterday,
he told me the directions to his house
and how I can get out of that neighborhood and go on an Interstate.
It was incredible.
(45:58):
The memory that he haswas just incredible.
And when I'm sad and when I feel hopeless,
I think of him, I call him, text him,
and life changes in that minute.
So my goal is our son should look
(46:22):
at things differently at all times, and
he should change his opinion at all timesbecause opinions can be updated,
and they shouldn't stay still.
I have two people like that.
One is a young little pianistand the other one is a tour guide,
and they changed my life.
(46:42):
I look at life differently.
Actually, I want to say another onetoo, yeah, an autistic kid.
When he came to us,he was unable to actually hold his legs.
His legs would always touch the pianoand it would have hit the piano.
For about two years, I held his legsin order to teach him a note.
(47:03):
Now he's entering international pianocompetitions.
He learned and changed,
transformed his life with the help
of his family, especially mom and dad.
I'm going to have dinnerwith him this Friday.
(47:25):
When I want to ask anythingabout Mozart, I ask him because he is
this Mozart library in his mind,and it is so interesting.
He also changed the way Ilooked at autistic kids.
Now I think autism is such a talent
because he has a perfect pitchthat I cannot imagine.
(47:48):
He can tell you the noteof a vacuum cleaner.
It's incredible.
Now he's a conservatory student.
He a law student,and we are just enjoying
listening to him at a concert on stage.
So, yeah, three people like that.
(48:09):
Well, thank you so muchfor sharing all these stories with us,
and I wish you a lot of successwith your project, which is amazing.
Thank you.
Have a great day, and I'm pretty surewe're going to talk to each other.
Thank you very much for doing this, Diane.
I'm very happy to bea guest of your podcast.
(48:32):
That was lovely.Thanks a lot.
Thank you.Have a great day.
Thank you.You too.
Bye..
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:25):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversationson our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:55):
Today, ArtsAbly has some conversation with
Erman Türkili, a musician and assistant professor
at Bahcesehir University inIstanbul, Turkey, and the founder
of the House of Arts and Science in Istanbul.
You can find the resources mentionedby Erman Türkili during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:16):
♪ Jazz piano music ♪Excerpt of the introduction video of First Steps of a Little Artist
Hi, this is Erman.
I'm the author of First Stepsof a Little Artist.
Today, I will be talking about the detailsof the book, how it works, our goal,
and what we aim with this book.
(01:38):
First of all, I need to mentionthat it's been 12 years since
I have been working on this book.
I wanted to make sure that this bookwill enable all the children
in the world to play the piano easily.
The most important detail of this book is (01:52):
instead of using musical notes, we are using
symbols for right-hand and left hand, as well as the notes.
So, now, instead of trying to find the noteon the piano, now we have the circle
for the right-hand notes, and we havethe triangle for the left hand notes.
(02:13):
Now that we covered the right-handand the left hand with triangle
and circles, now we are going to find out
how we know what the C, D, E, F is.
So instead of C on the piano,now we have the black circle.
Instead of D, now we have the yellowcircle, and instead of E,
(02:34):
now we have the green circle.
So if you look at the book very carefully,you will understand that
everything is going to be symbolized in this book,
so this is going to make it very easy forkids to learn it at their first glance.
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Erman Türkili,who is a musician and assistant professor
(02:58):
at Bahcesehir University in Istanbul inTurkey, and also the founder of
the House of Arts and Science in Istanbul.
We're going to talk about that.
Welcome, Erman.
Welcome to Turkey.
Thanks for doing this, and thanksfor having me on your podcast.
Thank you for being here.
(03:19):
I'm interested in your work becauseyou're doing a lot of work in teaching,
but you are also yourself a teacher.
Can you tell us where musicstarted in your life and
what you did yourself as a studentin music and what you're doing today?
(03:43):
Back in the Mediterranean part of Turkey,
I was a kid, at the age of...
I remember all the waydown to five years of age, and
I loved nothing outside of music.
Even still now, I have been a violinistfor the last 30 years, I'm still
(04:04):
very excited to be a musician, to be
a student of music on a daily basis.
I was in a city called Adana,in the Mediterranean part
of the country, Turkey.
Every semester, I would talk to my dad and mom
and say that I want to buy a piano.
(04:28):
Coming from a middle-class family,it's not all that easy to just
buy an instrument just because your kidwants to have one because it's expensive.
Every year they would say, Okay, so let'ssee your grades at the end of the year,
and then we will think I have that.
There's the first year in elementaryschool, second year, third year,
(04:50):
fourth year, and fifth year.
Unfortunately, I never had it.
And we moved to a different location in thecity and in the environment, my brother
had a friend who was a student at the conservatory at the time
because I never knew what conservatory is at the time.
We met with him, and one daywe went to his house
(05:12):
and I saw this big piano at his house.
And I said, What is this?
Because at that time, I had only
seen just the keyboard, the digital
keyboard, the small one.
He said, Well, that's the piano.
That's the upright piano
and you don't even needto have an electric cable to work this.
(05:34):
This is just an upright piano.
It works manually and acoustically.
I said, Can I just press the buttons?
I pressed the buttonsand he saw me doing this.
Later on, I didn't know that, but he
went to my dad and said, Erman is really
interested to play an instrument, sohow about I introduce one of my teachers
(05:57):
at the Conservatory to you, and maybeyou can arrange some lessons for Erman.
My father was like, Yes, of course.
We went to this teacher's house and,before any instrumental education
in Turkey, and unfortunately, they stilldo it, they check your ear, they say.
(06:19):
They push some buttons and they ask youto just imitate the sound of the note
that you hear from the piano.
That just never works for mebecause he would say, Give me
the sound of this note.
And I didn't understand evenwhat he was talking about.
So I was laughing.
(06:39):
And he thought I was notable to hear the note.
But I was just laughing for the fact thathe was asking me to give the note to him.
And I didn't understandwhat he was talking about.
So then he explained.
But first he explained to my fatherthat I would never be a musician.
I don't have the talent.
I don't hear the notes.
(07:01):
My father said, Can wetry it again tomorrow?
We went there again tomorrow,the next day, and he said, No,
I will not teach him.
My wife can teach him. So his wife came, and she did the same thing,
and I was laughing again.
She said, This guy will neverbecome anything in music.
(07:21):
She said, I will havemy daughter teach him.
Their daughter came in and they were like,Erman, I am going to play a note
on the piano and I will imitate itjust like a flute with my mouth.
Then I understood whatshe was talking about.
She was asking me to imitatethe sound of the piano.
(07:44):
Then I started doing it.
Then she was like, Mom, dad, come and seethis guy is actually able to do this.
Then later they figured outthat actually I have a perfect pitch.
But at first it was very funny.
They said - There was a very famouswas sentenced that he said, he said,
If this guy enters the conservatory, I willbecome a shepherd at the conservatory.
(08:08):
That was the sentencethat the professor said.
Then they said, Okay, well, now you understand how we are doing this.
So they started putting multiple voiceson the piano, and I was able
to divide them and give them back.
And so they said, Okay, now,if this guy doesn't win the exam, then
(08:30):
I will become I will become a shepherd at the conservatory because now I have a perfect pitch.
And so later on, I entered the exams,the auditions at the conservatory,
and I became a conservatory student,and I was actually the first one
to enter it, and they asked me eight notes at the same time.
So they basically press down eightnotes, and I was able to identify them.
(08:54):
Then I started becominga conservatory student at the age of 10.
In Turkey, that wasthe earliest you can start.
Now it starts at elementary school.
So I became a student,and I'm still a student of music,
and I still have perfect pitch.That's what I do.
(09:15):
That's how my music journey started.
But you're a violinist, right?You're not a pianist.
I'm a violinist.
At the entrance exam, they decidewhat instrument you can play
based on your finger length,and they check your finger and they
see how you can do and they said,Okay, you can choose two instruments.
I said, Okay, eitherthe piano or the violin.
(09:39):
I was dying to do the piano.
They said, No, you can do the violinbecause your fingers are not that long
for the piano, which is funny now.
My wife is a piano professor,and I can actually play the piano.
Well, actually, at the time, probablythey had teachers with no students,
and they wanted to fill up their studio.
(09:59):
They put me in a violin. I'm lucky to be a violinist.
I'm married to a pianist, but I'm lucky tobe a violinist, and we play together now.
So your studies were in Istanbul,but you didn't stay in Istanbul
for your higher education, did you?
No.
At first, I started actuallyin the Mediterranean part
(10:20):
of the country, not in Istanbul.
I did my middle school there,high school there, and the university,
the undergraduate there.
From Adana, I flew out to Americato do my master's and doctorate.
I did my master'sat Pittsburgh State University and
my doctorate at Florida State University.
At the age of 26, I heard the same thing.
(10:43):
They said, You became the doctor of music.
And I said, What is this?
I was just making music.
So I was very young becauseI enjoyed what I was doing.
So starting with the elementary schooluntil finishing up doctorate,
I never had a gap year or a gap month.
At the age of 26, I had my DMA
license, Doctor of Music and Arts license
(11:05):
from Florida State University.
And I think that I'm still a lifetimestudent of music, and that's what I do.
So How long did you stay in the States?
About seven years.
After that, I had about two, three music
teaching studios in Florida, in Alabama.
(11:28):
Then I decided to travel back to Turkey.
I moved to this historic,beautiful city of Istanbul.
I'm not from Istanbul, but I moved backto Istanbul, and I have been
living in Istanbul since then.
It's been 12, 13 yearssince I moved back from States.
When you came back, did you become a
(11:51):
teacher immediately, or what did you do?
At first, in America, I was an orchestraplayer in the symphony orchestras,
and I had music teaching studios.
I had a lot of students, privatestudents, and then I was also a member
of the orchestras in the violin section.
When I came back, I wanted to havea six months off to see how Istanbul
(12:16):
works, how Istanbul lives the day.
And so when does the daystart in Istanbul?
When does it end?
And then I figured out early enoughthat Istanbul never ends.
Istanbul is a 24-hourcity just like New York.
And so then I started teaching some.
I never became an orchestralplayer in Turkey.
(12:37):
I'm still not.
I do recitals with my wife throughout
many countries in Europe and also in Turkey.
Now I have two different education centers
in Istanbul, and I'm also a university
teacher at Bahcesehir University,where I teach violin and chamber music,
(13:00):
but outside of the university, I start teaching kids at the age of two,
to kids, and also I work in special education.
I work with autistickids using my methods.
That's at the House of Arts, right?
That's the House of Arts and Sciences.
What is the story behindthe House of Arts and Science?
(13:24):
Well, I couldn't find a job,so I had to find my own.
That was the story,actually, because I had music
teaching studios back in America.
When I came back here,I wanted to do the same here.
At first, I wanted to become a universityteacher, but I was so young.
I was at the age of 26.
Nobody hired meas an assistant professor at that age.
(13:46):
And so I started having private students.
And later on, I formed my first educationcenter that was named House of Music.
Then I wanted to always havescience classes and art classes
in the same place at a young age.
Students would come in and theycan do chess and they can do physics,
(14:08):
and they can do violin and pianoand guitar at the same time.
So that was the goal because I believe artand science It should always be together.
And so that was the story behind it.
So from House of Music, we turned thatinto House of Arts and Sciences, and at
a very historic building in Istanbul.
(14:29):
And that's what we still do.
We have the second location now.
Istanbul has two different sides.
One is on a Torian side, the Asianside, and there's the European side, too.
We have one center in the Asian sideand one in the European side.
That's what we do.
But mainly, our education centers are nowworking only in the field of music.
(14:53):
What made you start workingwith children with learning disabilities?
Back in US, I had a student.
One day, one family came and said,We have a student who is mildly autistic.
Well, up until that time,that was probably the first time
(15:13):
I heard that term.
I said, What is autism?
And his mom explained what it is.
She said, he just learnseverything normal, but then
he can act different sometimes.
He came into my class,and so I started working with him.
(15:36):
But the first class was very interesting.
He just, like a shark.
He would just travel around me.
He would just walk around meas I was telling him how to do
this song, how to play this song.
He would stop, play, and thenhe would start circling again.
(15:57):
After two classes,I called his mom and I said,
It seems like I'm unable to teach himbecause he is just circling around me,
and I feel like he's not listening to me.
So it might be better to maybefind a different teacher
who knows what this is all about.
(16:18):
She was like, How about in the thirdlesson, you ask him what
he learned in the first two lessons?
I didn't know that he'sa recording machine.
The third lesson came byand I said, Hey, can you tell me
what I taught you in the first lesson?He was like, Yes.
For 45 minutes lesson, he talkedabout the entire class, minute by minute,
(16:44):
second by second, with every detail.
I learned that actually he's listeningto me as he was circling around me.
It was quite an experience.He was a great violinist.
He was a great pianist, too.
We had great two years togetherwith him, and he would not
talk to me too much in the lesson,but he would always listen
(17:08):
and do what I tell him to do on the violin.
It was very interesting.
Then when I came back here -
Back in US, I had started working with kids
using symbols and colors, notwith that autistic kid, specifically,
but with the early-age students.
(17:28):
The reason was, I had a student,I still talk to them, Avery,
she was at the age of 10, andshe would come into my violin lessons.
She had a sister who was atthe age of three or two
and a half at the time, Edison.
Edison would be at the end of each class that we do with Avery,
(17:51):
and Edison would be like, Can I also play?
I would be like, No, you can't play.
It's too early.
She would be so devastated.
One day, her mom came to me and said,
Erman, can you maybe try with her?
I said, no, she's too young.
(18:11):
She cannot learn the notes.
So I denied that.
Later on, she came into my classfor about six months.
I tried very hard to teach her
how to read the notes.
The first month, she loved the violin.
(18:33):
At the end of six months, she hatedthe violin because it's just so difficult
to learn with the traditional methods.
And slowly, one by one, one day, I was driving on Interstate 10
in Florida and I said, How can Ido something different to teach her?
Because she's unableto understand everything I say.
(18:57):
All of a sudden, as I was driving,on I10, I said, How about instead
of saying the note names, I say colors?
Instead of saying C or Doin Europe, I say yellow.
Instead of the violin strings,I say, instead of saying GDAE string,
(19:19):
how about I say circle?
So I tried.
In the next two lessons,she learned about five songs.
For six months, it wasa struggle of nothing.
We started using symbols and colorsto learn, and that later turned into
(19:41):
a method that I worked on.
For about 12 years, I worked on the methodbefore I published The First Steps
of a Little Artist book.
With the book, we workin special education.
We teach autistic kidshow to play the piano.
The first book came out on pianobecause it's an educational approach.
The publication was easier on the piano.
(20:04):
Now we are working on the violinbook, the violin book, and the xylophone
will come out, and there's the ukulelewill come out, and there is going
to be a rhythm book for autistic kidsand also the early childhood kids.
We are using symbolsand colors to teach the kids.
That's how it all started,and that's what we do now.
Okay.
(20:25):
If we are a little bit moredetailed, right now, your book.
You also have an introduction videothat we will post,
we will share with ArtsAbly.
But basically, it's about now teaching
some teachers to acquire this method
(20:46):
so that they can also sharethis method with their own children.
Well, yeah, we do teach students, and we
also teach teachers to show them how they
can use this book in their education,especially at the age of two, three,
and four, they use the book until five.
(21:07):
With the five, kids slowlystart learning the alphabet.
And alphabet is also - The letters are also symbols, basically.
Once they start learningthe letters, they can easily
learn the notes, in my opinion.That's what we do.
At the age of five,we do a little transition
(21:27):
to learn the notes, but at firstwe start with only colors and symbols.
We have colors on the keyboard of piano.
The C is black and D isyellow and E is green.
There's orange for the F.
We have the colors on the piano.
We have stickers at the end of the book.
We have stickers that theyput on the keyboard.
(21:50):
Also, symbols are identifying our hands.
We have the circle handand we have the triangle hand.
Because at the age of three,who knows what right is,
what left is, and it's so difficult.
What we do is we have thesekids friendly markers.
We drove a little circle hereand a little triangle here.
(22:13):
Now they have the trianglehand and circle hand.
It's a lot easier for themto identify that way.
What they do is they look at the book andsee the symbols, and then they just found
that very same symbol on the keyboard,and they just play the note.
So easily, they can start playingthe melodies using this method.
(22:34):
Also the different notes length
are represented by symbols too, right?
Yeah, the size of the symbol changes.
If it's a little longer note,like a two beat long,
then the size of the symbol doubles.
If it's a dotted quarter,then it's a different size.
(22:56):
They can see this in the book clearly.
We also teach them howto compose with colors.
Oh, that's nice.
That's very important for me.
We have composition pages for the kidsbecause I do believe that it is very,
very important to compose an idea.
(23:18):
It doesn't have to be a melody.
They can compose anythingand that can help in their later life
to create something different.
The idea of creation isquite important for me.
What they have is theyhave symbols without the colors.
We ask them to color them,the symbols, and they can create
(23:41):
their own melodies based on the colorsthat they put on the blank symbols
that we provide.
How do you work with the children on that?
They first have to
acquire this method first as a player,
and then you sit with them and you say,Now it's your turn, compose a melody?
How do you do that?
(24:02):
Well, first of all, we start with justfinding the notes on the piano,
well, the colors and the symbols.
The first 26 pages of the piano,we have free fingering.
They can look at the symbol, play the symbol with any finger that they like.
Later on, we ask themto have designed fingers.
(24:23):
What we do is C has to be playedwith the first finger.
But what is first fingerfor a two years old?
What we say is, So Now you have the circlehand, and now you have the black finger,
the yellow finger, that's the D,and there's the green finger,
that's the E, there's the F,there's the pinky as being the note G.
(24:44):
With the A and be later on, we ask them todecide on their own because I like giving
children to decide what they want to do.
With two notes, we give themthe decision, and they can just play them
if they even want with their nose.
Because at the age of two,we do 20 minutes lessons.
(25:07):
We want to give them the ideaof freedom, creating something
and learning something different.
That's how we do it.
Then when the composition pages come,we give them the markers
with the blank circles, and we ask them, What notes
(25:30):
do you want to give to this white circle?
They say, Okay, this is goingto be the green, the note E.
The other one is going to be the red,the note G.
We have a page,the harmony page, I like to call.
I took counterpoint lessonsfor years and harmony lessons
for years, composition lessons.
(25:52):
But we asked them to lookat the Colorful Friends page.
What Colorful Friends page is,how in music we have the C, E, G.
When you play them together,that's a C major chord.
We say, these are good friends.
The black and the green and the red,if you put them together,
they're going to sound better.
(26:13):
What they do is, okay, soI have a black note here
that I colored, and now it's betterto use either green or the red.
That's basically a counterpoint class.
Then they say, okay,so I will play the green.
Now they have the C and E, and whenthey play together, they sound better.
We asked them to learnthe counterpoint in one page.
(26:36):
How does it work?
It works similarly for the otherinstruments, but something
like the xylophone or the ukulele.
One hand is the fourth handsand one hand is the melody hand.
Yeah. With the piano, we have twohands, circle and triangle.
(26:58):
With the violin,those symbols are different.
With the violin, the stringsare the symbols and the notes
are the colors on your finger.
With the ukulele, the same thing.
The different strings are differentsymbols, and we draw those symbols on
the backside of the bridge on the violin.
When they hold the violin,they see the colors and symbols.
(27:18):
What they do is, okay,so now we have,
let's say, the Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
They play circle, circle, star,star, and the yellow star, yellow star,
the first finger, and the black star.
So that's A, E, E, F sharp, F sharp, E.
Instead of saying that, we have circles.
The circles are the things that they startseeing when they are born, the first day.
(27:43):
It's a lot easier for them toidentify and understand with this.
With the xylophone,it's just like the piano.
So you have the colors for the notesand the symbols for the hands.
I see.
Right now, there is one book, there's going to be several different books
about this method.
Any plans for other projectsrelated to your school or your method?
(28:09):
Yes, we want to work with elderly
because what happens is at the age of two
and three, the biggest struggleis learning the notes.
At the age of 62, 63, it is the samething, learning the notes.
Because with the staff,it's very difficult to identify
(28:33):
the G, the E, the F, the A,and then the different sizes,
and identify them there,and then find them on the piano or
the violin, whatever you play,and then playing one note, even
Even the Twinkle Twinkle Little Star,you have tens of notes.
It is very difficultwith the elderly to play an instrument
(28:55):
or start an instrument.
What we do is we alsoteach them with the color.
At the first class, they start playing themelodies other than learning the notes
for about six months, finding themon the keyboard for another three months,
and then playing one song.
We teach elderly using the book again.
(29:15):
But we just change the repertoire.
We teach them songs thatthey like to hear, and we basically
apply that system to a regular song.
They also do it.
Now we are working on that, on the violin
and on the piano, because at a late age,
(29:38):
it is quite importantto use your fingers, use your eyesight,
and use your hearing.
If you use this on a daily basis,it is believed that the process
of dementia comes back to you way later.
It won't come back, but it slows
(29:59):
the process of dementia.
It doesn't removethe dementia of your life.
I hope one day it will,
but it helps elderly to do a different activity.
Am I mistaken or you alsohave a project for blind people?
(30:20):
Yeah.
What is that?
Well, actually, it is one of the goalsin life that I want to do.
I'm working on that for about,I don't know, five, six years.
One day, I went to a museum in Istanbul.
(30:40):
That was a museum calledDialogue in the Dark.
And in the museum, nine people
become a team, and then they travel with you
in a pitch-black environment,and they introduce Istanbul to you.
(31:01):
This museum, I hear that in about 60countries, they have this museum.
And in Turkey, in Istanbul,we have a museum that is here forever
because they sometimes do it.
This museum goes to a different countryand they stay there for about two years
in the country for one year.
But in Istanbul, it's for a lifetime.
(31:21):
When I went to that museum,
we were traveling in pitch-black, Istanbul.
They would take you to grocery store,
you hop on the ferry, and they basically
make you feel like, yes,you don't see it, but you can feel it
(31:42):
and you can hear it and you can touch it.
You would to the grocery storeand they would ask you, Find apples
and buy one kilo of apples.
You'd be like, How?
And be like, Okay, well, hold the apple and smell it
so that you will know that it's an apple.
(32:03):
It was quite an experience.
When I got out of that museum,our tour guide was a blind person.
His name was Ingen,and he inspired me very much.
I said, Can I havecoffee with you one day?
He's like, Yes, of course.
He's such a funny guy.
He's like, So one day we had coffee with him, and I said,
(32:26):
What does music mean for a blind person?
He said, Music is life.
I said, Okay, and we are goingto be friends for a lifetime now
because music is life for me too.
I started writing a musical journey
where all the blind people people
(32:46):
come into an auditorium.
There's a chamber orchestraon stage playing with candles.
The auditorium is pitch black dark,only the musicians see.
They're going to play songs, compositionsfrom seven different countries.
Two theater artistswill talk about a story
(33:10):
that goes through those seven countries.
Each time they travel toa different country in in their journey,
they talk about Egypt, and the orchestrastarts playing Egyptian composers.
In that auditorium, they're going to smell something different when the Egypt comes
(33:32):
When they go to India, the fragrancechanges in the auditorium and the songs
change in the chamber music orchestraand the storyline changes also.
That's going to be an experienceconcert, I like to call.
They will go to the stage.
Also, people with eyesightcan also come in,
(33:55):
but they will be blind in the auditoriumbecause it's going to be pitch black.
I want them to close their eyes
and be in an auditorium where they won't
see anything,but they will listen to the music,
they will hear the stories of those sevencountries, they will smell smell different
(34:16):
fragrances of those seven countries.
Hopefully, I'd like to add something else.
I want them to also touch something.
When the story goes to Africa,I want them to find that banana
tied somewhere on their chair.
I want them to find it on their chair.
(34:39):
So I want them to experiencesomething different.
And I have been working on this storyline.
I'm writing this story, and I'm alsofinding the compositions
for those seven countries, and hopefully, one day, we'll be able to do it.
Wow. It's a very interesting project.
The mix of feeling and smelling and
all the senses that you can really think of
(35:03):
when you don't consider sight, right?
That's what I want to do,and that's what I have been working on.
I'm almost done with the storyline.
The story starts in 1500s in Istanbul,and it goes to Egypt,
it goes to India, and there's no...
(35:24):
It's a fiction story. It goes to America and listen to jazz and comes to France and
smell different fragrances in the history of Paris.
We play French music there, and
the theater artist will be talking about
these stories in a very theatrical way.
(35:45):
There will different sound examplesin the concert.
They will be hearing the birds, andthey will be hearing the fairies, they
will be hearing the arrows being shot at.
It's a story, and it's goingto be an exciting story.
(36:05):
With all these experiences and projects
that you have with thinking of another
way of playing music or developingaccessible ways of performing music.
I always have this questionthat I really like, and it's about
accessibility in the arts, or sometimeswe talk about disability culture
(36:27):
because it's really what it is.
What does it mean for you to work inan environment where you promote
accessibility in the arts?
It means many things, and especially this last project
that I'm talking about, the musical journey.
When people go to a concert,
(36:49):
they experience a music that was composed
hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
But when I go to concerts,I see less and less people
that are blind, that are autistic.
(37:09):
In my concert, in my recitals,there's a rule.
If there's an autistic kid, and if the concert hall doesn't let
kids with autism, thenI'm not going on stage because art
should be accessible for everyone.
If...
(37:30):
I did special concerts
for kids with Down syndrome.
And some of those concerts were
some of the memories, I will never forget them.
I want all the artists, all theconcert artists, and musicians,
and theater artists to experience this.
(37:54):
That's why accessibility in arts should be
worked on even more every day,
but I see less and less every day.
Unfortunately, in Turkey, in Istanbul,there was a restaurant, for instance.
It was the dinner in the dark.
(38:15):
That was the concept. You would only saywhat you have allergies, your allergies,
and then they would serve you foodthat you would never know what it is.
But unfortunately,they closed the restaurant.
But I want to be able to promote concerts
(38:36):
and give concerts for children, especially,
who are blind.
My wife, we are very luckythat we have a student
who is living in a a very different partof the country, and we teach her online.
She is an incredible pianist.
But if we just say, Oh, she's blind,she cannot play the piano,
(39:01):
that would be such a loss because she plays incredible.
I will send you videos,and it's incredible.
Therefore, all of these examples tells usthat we should be more accessible
for everyone, and we should not limit our educations,
our teachings in also one area.
(39:24):
We shouldn't have an age limit.
We shouldn't have a student-type limit.
In my opinion, and every daywe're working on that more.
Yes. I mean, the preconceived notion of disability and music being so opposite
is so stupid in a way. It is not.
(39:46):
Very much so.
I'm happy to find people from all overthe world who are defending this.
Let's find a way.
There is no reason forthese students not to play music.
That's really nonsense.
(40:07):
Actually, Braille himselfwas a pianist, too.
And he has a piano method.
Yes, of course.
We found the book,and he actually worked on that.
Unfortunately, that is nottalked about quite as much.
We traveled to the different city justbecause in that city, there was a library
(40:30):
that we could find the books, and we canfind different ways of printing music.
We have all the audiobooks now,
and we can also have different printersystems, which you do now.
We just need to implement the differentmusic notation software so that actually
(40:50):
we can print out the Beethoven Sonatawith just a different
system, different notation.
We can think outside of the box,it's 21st century.
Exactly.
With new technology - in ArtsAbly,there has been a few musicians
who identify as blind and who haveshown that with the new technologies
(41:14):
that are developed today, we can easily use a device and have some
guidance or some audio voicesystem that they're used to.
With that, they can do anything.
My wife teaches every Saturdayat 9: 00 AM to our little student
(41:35):
who is blind, Ipek, and she's incredible.
Every Saturday morning is so much fun
for us because every day she practices.
And every week my wife gives a different songand plays that different song for her.
(41:56):
She records that.
Then the following week,it's a concert performance.
Normally, if she goes toa different education center,
it'll be like, I'm sorry, we can'tdo this because she cannot see the staff.
That's just nonsense now.
There's so manydifferent technologies.
(42:18):
Most of those people, if they don'tsee, then they hear better.
And they memorize better.
Yes. She has a perfect pitch, andshe memorizes so many different songs.
They are pianistic songs now.
They're not only kids' songs.
They are pianisticrepertoire now she memorizes.
My wife has another university student,
(42:40):
and he's able to see, but very difficult
for him to see anything.
What he does is he takes the photoof the song and then zoom in
and memorize everything.
She plays Chopin's and Beethoven sonatas.
It shouldn't be that easy to say no.
(43:05):
Yeah, and it's a good segueto what I'm going to ask next,
which is about - I believe that our lifeis full of encounters and people who
might have come to a part of your lifeand then it changes something.
Then you think in another wayand say that that's brilliant.
(43:25):
I was wondering if you had two or threepeople to think of, or maybe one,
to think of who really came to a partof your life where it motivated you
to think otherwise, or taught you a lesson that you're still
teaching today as a teacher, maybe.
Who would it be and why?
(43:49):
I have two people.
I have so many people, but lately,I want to say especially two
people, and they're both blind.
One is Ipek.
She's at the age of nine.
That's Saturday, 9 (44:03):
00 AM lessons for us, for my wife, and I'm a guest
of that lesson that I listened to them.
Also, our tour guide inthe Dialogue in the Dark museum.
He changed my life.
I think so differently after him.
He is almost at a talentlevel of an opera singer.
(44:31):
He has this baritonevoice that is so colorful.
I'm very sorry that I didn't meet with him
earlier, but every time I talk with him,
he makes me laugh It's just incredible.
This guy looks at lifein a very, very different way.
(44:55):
He says he became blind later onin his life because of a sickness.
He says before he was blind,
he was so scared of flying.
He says, Now I don't see.
I can travel anywhere.
He just makes everything so funny.
(45:17):
My way of looking at life has changed.
My way of seeing things has changed.
One day, I said - he uses bus systemin Istanbul and it takes
quite a while for him to go home.
I said, Can I drop you off?
That day, I had the car with me,and he said, Okay.
(45:38):
So we got out of the parking lot, and
step by step, as if he drove this direction yesterday,
he told me the directions to his house
and how I can get out of that neighborhood and go on an Interstate.
It was incredible.
(45:58):
The memory that he haswas just incredible.
And when I'm sad and when I feel hopeless,
I think of him, I call him, text him,
and life changes in that minute.
So my goal is our son should look
(46:22):
at things differently at all times, and
he should change his opinion at all timesbecause opinions can be updated,
and they shouldn't stay still.
I have two people like that.
One is a young little pianistand the other one is a tour guide,
and they changed my life.
(46:42):
I look at life differently.
Actually, I want to say another onetoo, yeah, an autistic kid.
When he came to us,he was unable to actually hold his legs.
His legs would always touch the pianoand it would have hit the piano.
For about two years, I held his legsin order to teach him a note.
(47:03):
Now he's entering international pianocompetitions.
He learned and changed,
transformed his life with the help
of his family, especially mom and dad.
I'm going to have dinnerwith him this Friday.
(47:25):
When I want to ask anythingabout Mozart, I ask him because he is
this Mozart library in his mind,and it is so interesting.
He also changed the way Ilooked at autistic kids.
Now I think autism is such a talent
because he has a perfect pitchthat I cannot imagine.
(47:48):
He can tell you the noteof a vacuum cleaner.
It's incredible.
Now he's a conservatory student.
He a law student,and we are just enjoying
listening to him at a concert on stage.
So, yeah, three people like that.
(48:09):
Well, thank you so muchfor sharing all these stories with us,
and I wish you a lot of successwith your project, which is amazing.
Thank you.
Have a great day, and I'm pretty surewe're going to talk to each other.
Thank you very much for doing this, Diane.
I'm very happy to bea guest of your podcast.
(48:32):
That was lovely.Thanks a lot.
Thank you.Have a great day.
Thank you.You too.
Bye..
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