May 16, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Heather White Luckow aka Heather Feather, a children’s performer and educator, and a musicologist based in Montreal in Canada.
During the interview, Heather Feather mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section.Access Heather Feather’s resources
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:24):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:51):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Heather White Luckow,
aka Heather Feather,a children's performer and educator
and a musicologist based in Montreal, in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby Heather Feather during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:12):
[Heather counts in rhythm.]One, two,
One, two, three, four.
♪ Guitar and battery playing the intro of Fill Your Bucket ♪
[Heather sings]I have a happiness bucket inside me,
and you have one as well.
When the buckets are full,we're really happy.
(01:36):
But when they are empty,we don't feel so swell.
When we are down,we can do things that feel good,
like ride a bike or joke with a friend.
We each have the power to choose to dohappy things, to fill our bucket,
to feel better again.
(02:00):
Fill up your bucket, fill up your bucket.
There's a bucket for you, a bucket for me,
for all of your friends and your whole family.
[The band plays.]
(02:21):
[End of the excerpt.]
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Heather White Luckow aka Heather Feather
who is a children's performer and educatorand also musicologist
based in Montreal, in Canada.Welcome, Heather.
(02:42):
Thank you so much.It's wonderful to be here.
Well, you have an impressive
field of activities in what you call
'Kindie' music, which is kidsand indie music combined.
I love this term, by the way.
(03:04):
When did that all start?
What led you to that work with children?
As a musician yourself, yourself,
where did it start?
My name is Heather.
I have multiple sclerosis.
Today actually is the first day of Multiple Sclerosis Awareness Month in Canada.
(03:25):
Orange is one of my theme colors when Iperform because it's an important aspect
of who I am and who I present to children.
How did I start in music?
I think in the province of Newfoundland,we are born singing, and
it's a very musical place.
(03:47):
All my relatives are very musical.
My dad is a very,very good amateur guitarist.
He was an English professorand then an English teacher.
My mother has a beautiful voice,and my whole family sang,
and like many other families, whenever we were together, we didn't watch TV,
we didn't play a board game, we sang.
(04:07):
This was how culture is handed down,how lessons are learned,
how entertainment is had.
Music was always important to me growingup in my family and in my culture.
I wanted to be a classical musician,
and I focused on classical music all the way through.
I think I first heard my first atonal,so 20th century, not tonal,
(04:33):
not with scales, but more mathematicallyoriented music when I was 12,
and I was instantly drawn to it,which is a little bit odd, I think.
But at least my piano teachertold me it was very odd.
But I loved it, and I wantedto know how it worked.
I started to play the French horn,
(04:53):
as a joke, because I was bored playing
clarinet, and my band director said, Well,why don't you take this the supply closet
over the summerand I'll give you a record,
so you know how it sounds, like a 33,and a book to learn the notes.
I taught myself to play over the summer, and that became
my primary instrument along with singing.
(05:16):
I started my undergraduateand started writing music then.
My interest was fiddle music.
I wanted to compose for a film,and for now, the equivalent
of writing for prompts for Netflix.
I got a scholarship to go to Bowling Green State University
in Ohio, so I continued on there asa composer and then a music theorist.
(05:37):
In French, we say it's "musicologie,"it's kind of the same field,
but I'm a little bit more on the numbers side in theory.
I came back to Canada to livein Montreal to do my PhD in that field.
Up until then, I had always performed professionally
or semi-professionally on the side,either on my call, on my horn, or
(05:59):
singing, and talk everywhere I was.
So teaching also runs in the family.
And then I was diagnosed with multiplesclerosis and everything changed.
And it was as I was finishing the PhD.
I took I took a few years off to figureout what I was going to do next.
I started family with my husband,and I just loved being a mother.
(06:23):
And I had worked with children a lot whenI was younger,
and I went back to working with children.
I was asked, Could you do a classat our for the preschoolers.
And that's how I started.
I hadn't worked with childrenfor about 20 years.
And it was really, really rewarding.
And then I decided,This keeps me feeling healthy.
I feel happy.I don't feel stressed.
(06:46):
This is a really greatway to spend my time.
I'm enjoying this,and I find it rewarding.
And the children and thefamilies like it, too.
So that's how I startedon that path in maybe 2012, 2013.
And then I started doingit full-time in 2017.
That's how I found children's music.
It was a big career shift, but in a way,a return to my roots because it's making
(07:11):
music within families,which is what I did growing up.
What made you recordyour first songs for children?
That's another good question.
I always write for the children that Ihave because children
are always exploring and growing andfrom an educational perspective
(07:33):
and from psychology of a whole child,you have all these different ways
in which children grow as they develop.
I wanted to make sure that to each programthat I went to see,
because I started visiting preschools and schools,
that I was addressing the children's needs.
So specific songs were writtenat the request of the schools.
Like one school asked me to write a songabout what's known in Quebec as
(07:57):
the construction holiday, when allthe trucks stopped working for two weeks.
So I could teach them what that was.
Or another one wanted to teach aboutmigration, the fall migration
of Canadian wildlife and where they go.
So that was a really packed song.
So all of these were in a little sketchbook.
When 2020 happened and the world stayed home,
(08:20):
all of a sudden, I wasn't going out anymore to work with children.
I thought, I should record some of these.
I started then refining my workand which ones I thought would be most
beneficial to a wide variety of childrenand not just the specific,
just some specific classes.
(08:41):
That's how that started.
It was a side project.
What's funny is that you havea classical training, but all these songs,
they have jazz, they haverock, they have guitar, they have
bounce arounds that change style.
All these collaborators you met to create these songs,
(09:04):
how did you meet them and whatwas the collaboration like?
That was really exciting.
I had an idea of what I wantedeach song to sound like.
Part of being a music theoristand a composition teacher is knowing
how to write colors of instrumentsand in different styles to
make it sound like it's in a style.
(09:27):
I knew I did want jazz musicians because Iwanted everything to be
united through jazz and swing.
I started looking for jazzmusicians in Montreal.
I started with my friendStratsimir Dimitrov,
who is one of the co-ownersof Alchemist Studios in Montreal North.
He said, Well, I have somefellows that I usually play with.
(09:49):
Let's start with Jim Doxas.
He's a fabulous jazz drummer, and he'shigh in demand internationally,
and especially betweenthe Montreal to New York quarter.
Then Jim said, Well, I've got this, my best friend, Adrian Vedady, plays bass,
so let's take him along.
As the band got recruited,we recorded that first album together.
(10:11):
It was a wonderful experience.
Going on to the second album, peoplehad changed what they were doing.
At the time, we were still a little bitin lockdown, so they had more time
to record, and now everybody's everywhere.
The only person who was able to return was the pianist,
but we also then recruited still peoplefrom within the jazz community
(10:31):
and I also decided to work with a man namedDean Jones, who has won Grammy Awards
for producing children's music.
He's done writingfor Nickelodeon, for Disney.
I think he's done Sesame Street.
I thought, I want to bring this second album
to somebody who knows the commercialmarket because I know what I like,
(10:52):
but would other people like it, too?
Because there is that commercial aspect.
You want your music heard,but it needs to be accessible.
We also do want people to stream it andtry to be interested in listening to it.
Working with Dean was really, really fun.
I went to about an hour and a half northof New York City in September
(11:15):
and took, again, my teaching sketchbook.
I had 15, 20 songs, and I opened itup and I said, This is what I have.
Let's pick up the 10and make an album out of it.
He said, This is going to be a lot of fun.
We jammed and then we picked eightto start with, and then the rest was
done between Montreal and New York.
(11:38):
He also has a circle of musicians,professional special musicians,
primarily that play in New York City,and they came out to record as well.
It was neat. It was two studios, two countries, and the tracks were being emailed back and forth.
It was super fun.
There is also a strong educationcomponent in these songs.
(12:01):
When you teach children these songs,how do you work with them?
What's the process of explaining whatimmigration is or what fruits are
or what the dinosaur is, all that?
That's fun.
Children are like spongesand they love to learn.
(12:23):
They're the songs that are very muchthe learning about the natural world,
learning about science.
When children have musicto attach facts onto,
it sinks in a lot better.
Music is used in collaboration with otherthings when we teach in all subjects.
(12:44):
There's going to be yourmath teacher in school.
My son's math teacher in grade fivebrought in a lot of music
about math to help them remember howto do order operations or something.
I just did the same thing.
Very, very fun.
Then there's different types of musicthat I write to make sure
that it's not just cognitive.
(13:05):
For instance, grows to fine motor.
I work with a lot of childrenthat might have cerebral palsy.
They might have other differencesor some challenges.
Then you have your children with nochallenges, but they are all
trying to achieve milestones.
As we grow, the normal progressionof a healthy child from
(13:27):
crawling to bouncing, to be able to stand, to bounce, and then to jump.
Then first it's going to be one foot,and then it's going to be two feet.
To write songs that challengethe child to achieve the milestone.
Then the latest album ismore social emotional growth.
It has to do with how to create community.
(13:49):
Disability plays a large part in this one,as well as racism,
standing up against - saying diversity isa good thing, and encouraging children
to not judge a book by its coverand to to listen to these little stories
that can be taken at face value,but you can also think,
Wait, I can ask them later.
Do you think that the shark was reallya mean guy in that song,
(14:12):
or did he just want to play?
But you were afraid when he cameout because he was a shark, right?
He didn't want to eat his friends.
In this song, he had a birthday cake,and he liked to bake,
and he wanted to share his birthday cake.
Can you tell us more about this album?
This album is super exciting.
It's called "Together," and it'sprobably the best word I could think of.
(14:36):
Short to the point abouteveryone has a role in society.
Everyone has importance.
Everyone has value.
Everyone has somethingto bring to the table.
As human beings in the same world,we are better when we work together,
when we're helping one another,when we're supporting one another.
(14:56):
The first song in the album is calledParty, and it starts out
The first verse is, If you walkor if you roll, if you use a walker or
a cane or a chair, just come in the door.
It don't matter how you move,it only matters that you came.
Because everyone in the world is unique,but we're all the same.
We're all the same in that. In an idealworld, we're all welcome to the party.
(15:19):
Everyone is welcome.We make space for everyone.
Some songs about how we can...
Children, as they're growing,they depend on their parents when they
fall down to say, It's okay,it's going to be all right.
Around the age of four,they start to self-regulate,
so they are able to pull themselvestogether and tell themselves, Oh,
(15:41):
that's okay, I'll be fine,and to calm themselves.
So even starting at three,and then at four,
they're moving away from the parentsand they're doing more
interpersonal relationships.
And so a song,Fill Your Bucket, is about that.
So when I'm sad,I can choose to I fill up my own
(16:01):
happiness bucket that's inside of me.
I carry it wherever I go.
The only purpose of it is to holdmy happy feelings about myself.
But when I'm sad,I can do something for myself.
I don't need it from the outside.
It's not extrinsic, it's intrinsic.
For me, I ride a bicycle,and that's the lyrics I used,
or joke with a friend,that fills my happiness bucket.
(16:25):
Now, did you know that you can fill somebody else's happiness bucket at the same time?
I can say that (16:30):
My friend, would you like to play together?
Would you like to play a game?
Would you like to go to a movie?
All of a sudden, I'm happy,so I'm with my friend, but they're happy
because I made themhappy at the same time.
Or you give a friend a compliment,and when they're happy,
it in turn makes you happy.
You can also protect your bucketfrom other people being mean,
(16:50):
put a lid on your bucket.
We still lead with kindness.
We try to give good examples sothat that person will not be a bucket
dipper and will be able to fillup their own bucket someday.
Then there are other songs about inclusionfrom all different perspectives of
everybody needs someone to cheer for them.
(17:10):
Everybody needs a great big hug.
Everybody needs someoneto know their name.
Find someone sitting on theirown and give them some love.
Then the chorus is from theperspective of the child.
I only want to be part of your game,so please include me.
Don't look past me.
I need some friends who know my name,so please include me and love me who I am.
(17:37):
These are songs for children that arestarting at four, but an older
set than the last album.
This new one is more, I'm going to sayK to 6, up to grade 6 to grade 7.
And yeah, trying to make the world a morekind, mutually supportive place
where we cheer on our friendsbecause the reference.
(17:59):
This one song, If we are in a raceand you win, I don't need to be sad.
Even though I lost,you're my friend, so I should
celebrate you because you're my friend.
And when I celebrate you,that makes me happy, too.
This is the lastalbum that you released, right?
(18:19):
This is the one that's coming outin June, and that single is out.
The three songs we just chatted about,The Bucket Song, Party, and Happy For You,
have all been released as singles.
They're out now.They've been out for a few months.
What's the plan with this album launch?
(18:39):
Are you going to tour?
I hope so.
There are some things in the works,but it hasn't been finalized.
I'm hoping to do a lot of school shows.
To do them in blocks where I can take it.
Then to have songs from my last album,I already have them in French.
When I go elsewhere in Canada,I can do a bilingual show.
(19:02):
When we're talking about healthy eating,because you were talking about the one
with the "why do we eat healthy?"
I'm saying, I can eat a rainbow.
Why I eat the rainbow?
Because it helps me growup to be big and strong.
That one's easily translated.
"Je peux manger une banane,"instead of "I can eat a banana."
I've been working on that so that, yeah,it'll be a bilingual will show,
(19:24):
with bilingual question and answer periods.
I hope it will - These songs are meant
to spark conversation, to make you think.
There's often a lotof different layers in there.
It's accessible for a kindergarten orit's accessible for a three-year-old.
But a kid in grade six is going to reada lot more into it,
and they're going to get the much biggerpicture, probably at the adult level.
(19:47):
We could do those with the songs.
It's the questions that getasked even within the family.
Oh, well, I really thoughtthat ending was surprising.
I wasn't expecting that to happen.
Why did that happen? What does that mean?
One thing that is interesting is youcreated your music company
(20:09):
with the idea to putthe children and the parents together
in a room and to make them work togetheron these songs or
have fun together on these songs.
What was the idea behind the company?
Am I correct by assuming that?
Yeah. That's the other part of whatI do is called WeeJam.
(20:29):
Before I was a performer,I created a parent
and child music company that's what wasthen hired up to go into preschools
with the educators of the childrenin place of the parents of the children.
The idea is that when I was growing upin New Finland, I wasn't just
observing and listening to music.
(20:49):
I was actively makingthe music with my family.
It was a collaborative activity thatmeant a lot more
because there are prosocial bonds that can be formed when we make music together.
There are things that we create.
It's like it's biggerthan the sum of its parts.
I wanted to bring that to families.
(21:11):
Some families, the parents don't know how to play any instruments.
I have 10-12 ukuleles on the wall,
and I have them painted with nail polish for the fingerings.
Children are working on their fine motorskills and their pincer grip
by learning to play a C-chord.
Then eventually, they getto the right fingering.
But the parents are doing it too.
(21:32):
The parents go out and buy the ukulele,and then they go home,
and now all of a sudden they have two,and daddy and child are playing together.
Yeah, that's very nice.
It's really, really rewarding, honestly, to see
parents interacting with your children at their level and to see them growing together.
(21:54):
The parents actually modeling,it's okay, I'm learning, too.
That's very special.
Children can go back at home and say...
You remember the part where...
Who are you when you're teachingthese songs? You're Heather Feather?
(22:14):
Sometimes.Sometimes I'm not.
It depends on where I am.
The oldest classes that I haveat the preschools and in
my home studio, I can be.Absolutely.
The children are able to understand.
I also take babies, so that's verymuch more on developmental milestones.
You have your spheres of language,cognitive development,
(22:39):
physical development, finding grossmotor skills in your language.
So getting those in thereand just encouraging the parents to have
fun with the children so that as theygrow, they can grow through my program.
Some of them go off, they do other things.
Some go for a year and then come back.
So they pop in and out of the program.
(23:00):
And as long as the children comeback into an age-appropriate class,
it's like they never left.
Because those children are alsocollaborative and they
work with one another.
One child can go up to the other and say,Try using this finger instead of this one
because they interact like a family.
(23:21):
They've internalizedthe social lessons of helping.
Then in other school, you're Ms. Heather?
In some schools,they call me Heather Feather.
The name actually came because I amin Quebec and the children
couldn't say Heather at all.
I got "Eder," which was okay,but it's not a common name in Montreal.
(23:44):
It's an English name.
They knew, though, what a feather is.
Children, English or French,knew the word feather.
I guess they use them in arts and crafts.
In the preschool, they startedcalling me Ms. Fedda or Ms. Feather.
I thought, Well, I should call myselfthat because they can say that.
That's where Heather Feather came from.
Some call me Ms. Heather,some will say Heather Feather.
(24:09):
Whatever they call me, as longas we're learning and having fun.
But I'm thinking of these conversationsat home where the child comes back
and says, Well, I don'tunderstand exactly what...
I mean, I saw a song about accessibilityand diversity and inclusion but
I don't understand really what it is.
(24:30):
Then it's up to parents to havethis conversation with them.
But it's a fantastic starterto have these conversations.
Also, the parents sometimes don't havethat - never had that conversation
before, whatever it is about
(24:50):
immigration or about human rights.
But that explainedto children through songs.
I have a question that is related to that.
It's about the role of accessibility
in culture in general or in disability
(25:12):
culture, as we can sometimescall it in disability studies.
What is it for you to be in a world whereyou promote accessibility in the arts?
I like it. I only stepped into that part of the rolein the last maybe two or three years.
Three years. Before that, I just didn't bringup that I had multiple sclerosis.
(25:36):
On the days that I wasn't feeling well,I didn't go into work.
Nobody really saw it,and nobody sees chronic fatigue.
If I have a problem with my hand and Ican't finger-pick,
I could always bring the ukulele,and no one would know
that my fingers weren't working.
If I don't tell you, you won't knowbecause I have my own coping mechanisms.
(25:57):
Stepping into that has beenempowering and I really enjoy it.
I like the idea that being more open aboutit now and now moving to the other end
of actually promoting these rights,it gives others the courage to ask
for what they need,to not be afraid to disclose themselves,
(26:18):
to see themselves in you, and to say, Wow,okay, you figured out how you
can still work in this career.
Can we brainstorm?
How do I do it?
It's really, really rewarding.
I feel the same way as I doworking with the children.
It's a privilege and an honor whensomebody takes you into their
(26:42):
confidence in that way.
As for me being the one that's justsending it out there,
I find it's easy with children becausethey're understanding,
they want to understand,and they want to ask questions.
There's nothing wrongwith letting them ask early.
Now, when I have a bad day,I can I remember times in the past couple
of years, I've taken my walkerbecause I was so dizzy, I needed it.
(27:06):
A cane wasn't enough.
So I came in with my four wheeled walkerwith the seat so I could take
a break to sit, and I have my breaks.
And the children said, What is that, Heather Feather?
One of the Jewish schools I teach at,my bubs got one, but why do you have one?
You don't have white hair.
(27:27):
So it was a great discussion.
I explain why I use one,how it's a positive thing,
how it helps me to do what I want to do,just like you wear glasses and it
helps you to see further, right?
I can use this and I can go places
that I wouldn't be able to go to and I can go further.
(27:51):
What is adaptive equipment?Why do we use it?
What's a hearing aid?Why would you use that?
Does this make you any less pinnable? Well, no.
You're always going to find a childin each class that has some difference,
and the children have alreadyaccepted this one child.
Now it's me and I have a difference,and these couple of children have
(28:13):
a difference, and it just becomesa wonderful It's a whole thing.
It's funny because I'm also a voiceteacher and I use a wheelchair.
I teach older kids.
I teach nine plus, until - not 18, but not far.
It was always interesting to see how
(28:34):
students react
to being in a room with someonein a wheelchair and not really asking
questions because my parents told me it's not really polite, right?
But at a certain point it was like, Can I ask a question?
Ah! Finally, go for it.
Ask any question.
(28:56):
Which is the mark of a true teacher.
You want the questions asked.Good for you.
Yes.[Laughs.]
With children, as you say, I also did ECM,
so Early Childhood Music,
and that's no problem.
I always had someone on my kneesand someone like, Can I push you?
Or, Can I run after you?
(29:17):
Never had an issue with thesechildren this age, four to maybe six.
They're very understanding,and they don't see anything as...
They don't see anydifferences as negative.
They just say it'sa difference, but so what?
We know each other from an organization
(29:39):
called RAMPD, Recording Artists andMusic Professionals with Disabilities.
First of all, you are a Pro Member of RAMPD,
meaning you're really embracing nowthis strength of you.
Also, we are not a lot of musicologists,
but I think you're the only
(30:00):
music professional who works with children.
I'm not sure, but I think you arein the whole pack of professionals,
and we have a lot right now.It's 80.
So thank you.
It's been a really great group to join.
It's fabulous.I'm really happy I did.
I know some teach younger children,but I don't think any teach -
(30:23):
any do songs for children themselves.
I'm so happy when I see our conversations in these groups that you can represent that.
I really like being able to do it, too,
because I only found out about RAMPD
(30:44):
through Andrew & Polly when they werenominated for a Grammy for
Best Children's Album of the Year.
Not last year, but the year before.Andrew is blind.
I saw him standing next to Lachi and thought,
Wait, what's this group called?
It's because I was following themon Instagram and I'm saying,
(31:06):
I'm so proud of you.Congratulations.
Then they said something about RAMPD.
Then I said, Well, what is RAMPD?
There's one other member that Iknow that does children's music.
Who's that?
They're Pro members, but they're lovely.
Andrew & Polly, and they're so talented.
Oh, yeah.
They live in California.
Yes, true.
I remember now.
(31:27):
Sorry, Andrew.
But I remember because that'sthe way I found out about the group.
Yes.
Yeah, it's a fantastic group.
They transformed the waythe Grammy Awards are held.
They transformed discussionsin the Recording Academy.
Lachi is really such a greatmotor of this group, really.
(31:51):
Absolutely.
When I was at Folk Alliance Internationalrepresenting RAMPD,
it was just wonderful to be ableto have so many people that had come.
It's a similar thing.
They're either programming for festivals,they're venue owners,
and they want to know how to make surethat the spaces are more accessible.
(32:11):
Processes of application is includingeverybody, that there's
nobody that can't apply.
How do you make sure you'regetting really representative?
Are you scaring people away that are partof the disabled community before they even
get a chance to thinkabout going in the door?
Yeah, some really great discussions there.
(32:33):
Okay, so I have a last question for you.
It's about people who might have countedin your career or might have
motivated you, might havelaunched you to a certain path.
If you had to think of one or maybe twopeople who really were there in your
career for you, who would it be and why?
(32:53):
There are many for many of us.
I think the most impactful two were
the ones that saw that I was disabled
before I knew I was disabledand encouraged me to keep going.
They knew that I was finding it hardand said, But don't give up.
(33:15):
No, we don't know what's wrongwith you, but keep going.
That was special.
In my undergraduate,I was having a lot of health problems,
and I was having problems walkingand with numbness in one leg.
My French Horn teacher,who was also the head of theory,
and she taught musicology, said,I don't know what this is, but take
the day, go get a CAT scan or whatever.
(33:37):
I would be told, I worked with this ladyfor four years, and every time I went in,
I was,Oh, this is a migraine that's just showing
up as part of your motor problems,even if you don't have a headache,
or all kinds of strange things theyare saying, We don't know what this is.
She always encouraged me to keep going.
Then also a lady that was the headof my department, she was my department
(33:59):
chair during the PhD,and we became good friends,
firstly because I answered her call for a library assistant
to go get her books to the library,because at the point,
she couldn't get her motorized wheelchair into the library.
There were renovations going on.
She introduced herself.
Her name is Eleanor Stubley,and she is also a musicologist,
(34:22):
conductor, and she taught musiceducation courses at McGill [University].
She was a triple threat.
She was also a French horn player.
She had been in a chair for very long time, she had a rather
progressive form of multiple sclerosis.
Funny!
Dark sense of humor,soft-spoken, and just so capable.
She figured out I had multiplesclerosis before I knew what it was.
(34:46):
I remember once being upset in her officeafter we'd become friends, and I said,
I don't know what to do.
I saw a neurologist who can't diagnose meand said, I don't meet all the criteria.
She said, You should go to my neurologist.
She picked up her office phone,called her neurologist, and said,
(35:06):
I have an appointment next week.I have a student here.
I need you to give her that appointment.
And she passed over the phone.Because it's hard to get a specialist
in a Canadian healthcare system.
I went to see this specialist,her doctor, who diagnosed me right away.
Within a month, I was on somedisease modification therapy.
(35:28):
She's also the one who encouraged meto take some time away
from teaching at McGill, from studying,to take a year of leave,
to take a maternity leave once I gotmarried, to start a family,
that I could do it,and eventually to encourage me once we
figured out that it was stressof being in academia to step away.
(35:51):
I wouldn't be where I amif it wasn't for her.
I say, I don't owe someone my life,but I owe her my legs.
I would also in a chair by now if itwas not for her and that diagnosis.
It was just an incredible gift.
Yes. People, I think, don't know, don't realizeor don't really see what is happening.
(36:15):
When we are engaging ourselveswith an academic career,
it's very stressful.
We try to do our best with the students.
But also,
what happened to you is that you didn't
have this role model before meeting her
(36:36):
who was like, Everything's going to be all right.
What's the name of your firstteacher who you mentioned?
Her name was Kjellrun Hestekin.
She was a Norwegian lady.She was wonderful.
You have people who don't know what's happening, but who are just
cheering you up and saying everything's going to be all right.
But still, until you meet this personwho's like, I know what's happening.
(37:02):
I went through that.
Then you can see things differentlyand saying, Okay, so I might be okay then.
Exactly.
That's why I'm happy to do what I do nowwith RAMPD, because now when I go
into a conference,I meet people who are where I was,
and I can be that person to them.
It's just a random encounter,but you never know how you affect
(37:24):
the lives of others and howa few kind words and then a quiet
conversation over coffee can help somebody get new perspective,
and they won't give up either.
They'll find a way to work around,because when you're disabled, as you know,
we have so many compensatory mechanisms,so many backup plans,
because we want to get where we're goingor we just want to get
(37:47):
that job done that day.
Well, thank you so much for sharing these stories with us and
your testimonies and your songs.
We're going to sharethat with our listeners.
We're going to publishall important dates and links
on our website so that everybodycan have a look at your work.
(38:10):
Thank you so much.
Well, have a fantastic day and maybesee you soon in the community.
You too.Hope to see you.
Yeah.Bye.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
Hello, and welcome to this episode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:24):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:51):
Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Heather White Luckow,
aka Heather Feather,a children's performer and educator
and a musicologist based in Montreal, in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby Heather Feather during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
(01:12):
[Heather counts in rhythm.]One, two,
One, two, three, four.
♪ Guitar and battery playing the intro of Fill Your Bucket ♪
[Heather sings]I have a happiness bucket inside me,
and you have one as well.
When the buckets are full,we're really happy.
(01:36):
But when they are empty,we don't feel so swell.
When we are down,we can do things that feel good,
like ride a bike or joke with a friend.
We each have the power to choose to dohappy things, to fill our bucket,
to feel better again.
(02:00):
Fill up your bucket, fill up your bucket.
There's a bucket for you, a bucket for me,
for all of your friends and your whole family.
[The band plays.]
(02:21):
[End of the excerpt.]
Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Heather White Luckow aka Heather Feather
who is a children's performer and educatorand also musicologist
based in Montreal, in Canada.Welcome, Heather.
(02:42):
Thank you so much.It's wonderful to be here.
Well, you have an impressive
field of activities in what you call
'Kindie' music, which is kidsand indie music combined.
I love this term, by the way.
(03:04):
When did that all start?
What led you to that work with children?
As a musician yourself, yourself,
where did it start?
My name is Heather.
I have multiple sclerosis.
Today actually is the first day of Multiple Sclerosis Awareness Month in Canada.
(03:25):
Orange is one of my theme colors when Iperform because it's an important aspect
of who I am and who I present to children.
How did I start in music?
I think in the province of Newfoundland,we are born singing, and
it's a very musical place.
(03:47):
All my relatives are very musical.
My dad is a very,very good amateur guitarist.
He was an English professorand then an English teacher.
My mother has a beautiful voice,and my whole family sang,
and like many other families, whenever we were together, we didn't watch TV,
we didn't play a board game, we sang.
(04:07):
This was how culture is handed down,how lessons are learned,
how entertainment is had.
Music was always important to me growingup in my family and in my culture.
I wanted to be a classical musician,
and I focused on classical music all the way through.
I think I first heard my first atonal,so 20th century, not tonal,
(04:33):
not with scales, but more mathematicallyoriented music when I was 12,
and I was instantly drawn to it,which is a little bit odd, I think.
But at least my piano teachertold me it was very odd.
But I loved it, and I wantedto know how it worked.
I started to play the French horn,
(04:53):
as a joke, because I was bored playing
clarinet, and my band director said, Well,why don't you take this the supply closet
over the summerand I'll give you a record,
so you know how it sounds, like a 33,and a book to learn the notes.
I taught myself to play over the summer, and that became
my primary instrument along with singing.
(05:16):
I started my undergraduateand started writing music then.
My interest was fiddle music.
I wanted to compose for a film,and for now, the equivalent
of writing for prompts for Netflix.
I got a scholarship to go to Bowling Green State University
in Ohio, so I continued on there asa composer and then a music theorist.
(05:37):
In French, we say it's "musicologie,"it's kind of the same field,
but I'm a little bit more on the numbers side in theory.
I came back to Canada to livein Montreal to do my PhD in that field.
Up until then, I had always performed professionally
or semi-professionally on the side,either on my call, on my horn, or
(05:59):
singing, and talk everywhere I was.
So teaching also runs in the family.
And then I was diagnosed with multiplesclerosis and everything changed.
And it was as I was finishing the PhD.
I took I took a few years off to figureout what I was going to do next.
I started family with my husband,and I just loved being a mother.
(06:23):
And I had worked with children a lot whenI was younger,
and I went back to working with children.
I was asked, Could you do a classat our for the preschoolers.
And that's how I started.
I hadn't worked with childrenfor about 20 years.
And it was really, really rewarding.
And then I decided,This keeps me feeling healthy.
I feel happy.I don't feel stressed.
(06:46):
This is a really greatway to spend my time.
I'm enjoying this,and I find it rewarding.
And the children and thefamilies like it, too.
So that's how I startedon that path in maybe 2012, 2013.
And then I started doingit full-time in 2017.
That's how I found children's music.
It was a big career shift, but in a way,a return to my roots because it's making
(07:11):
music within families,which is what I did growing up.
What made you recordyour first songs for children?
That's another good question.
I always write for the children that Ihave because children
are always exploring and growing andfrom an educational perspective
(07:33):
and from psychology of a whole child,you have all these different ways
in which children grow as they develop.
I wanted to make sure that to each programthat I went to see,
because I started visiting preschools and schools,
that I was addressing the children's needs.
So specific songs were writtenat the request of the schools.
Like one school asked me to write a songabout what's known in Quebec as
(07:57):
the construction holiday, when allthe trucks stopped working for two weeks.
So I could teach them what that was.
Or another one wanted to teach aboutmigration, the fall migration
of Canadian wildlife and where they go.
So that was a really packed song.
So all of these were in a little sketchbook.
When 2020 happened and the world stayed home,
(08:20):
all of a sudden, I wasn't going out anymore to work with children.
I thought, I should record some of these.
I started then refining my workand which ones I thought would be most
beneficial to a wide variety of childrenand not just the specific,
just some specific classes.
(08:41):
That's how that started.
It was a side project.
What's funny is that you havea classical training, but all these songs,
they have jazz, they haverock, they have guitar, they have
bounce arounds that change style.
All these collaborators you met to create these songs,
(09:04):
how did you meet them and whatwas the collaboration like?
That was really exciting.
I had an idea of what I wantedeach song to sound like.
Part of being a music theoristand a composition teacher is knowing
how to write colors of instrumentsand in different styles to
make it sound like it's in a style.
(09:27):
I knew I did want jazz musicians because Iwanted everything to be
united through jazz and swing.
I started looking for jazzmusicians in Montreal.
I started with my friendStratsimir Dimitrov,
who is one of the co-ownersof Alchemist Studios in Montreal North.
He said, Well, I have somefellows that I usually play with.
(09:49):
Let's start with Jim Doxas.
He's a fabulous jazz drummer, and he'shigh in demand internationally,
and especially betweenthe Montreal to New York quarter.
Then Jim said, Well, I've got this, my best friend, Adrian Vedady, plays bass,
so let's take him along.
As the band got recruited,we recorded that first album together.
(10:11):
It was a wonderful experience.
Going on to the second album, peoplehad changed what they were doing.
At the time, we were still a little bitin lockdown, so they had more time
to record, and now everybody's everywhere.
The only person who was able to return was the pianist,
but we also then recruited still peoplefrom within the jazz community
(10:31):
and I also decided to work with a man namedDean Jones, who has won Grammy Awards
for producing children's music.
He's done writingfor Nickelodeon, for Disney.
I think he's done Sesame Street.
I thought, I want to bring this second album
to somebody who knows the commercialmarket because I know what I like,
(10:52):
but would other people like it, too?
Because there is that commercial aspect.
You want your music heard,but it needs to be accessible.
We also do want people to stream it andtry to be interested in listening to it.
Working with Dean was really, really fun.
I went to about an hour and a half northof New York City in September
(11:15):
and took, again, my teaching sketchbook.
I had 15, 20 songs, and I opened itup and I said, This is what I have.
Let's pick up the 10and make an album out of it.
He said, This is going to be a lot of fun.
We jammed and then we picked eightto start with, and then the rest was
done between Montreal and New York.
(11:38):
He also has a circle of musicians,professional special musicians,
primarily that play in New York City,and they came out to record as well.
It was neat. It was two studios, two countries, and the tracks were being emailed back and forth.
It was super fun.
There is also a strong educationcomponent in these songs.
(12:01):
When you teach children these songs,how do you work with them?
What's the process of explaining whatimmigration is or what fruits are
or what the dinosaur is, all that?
That's fun.
Children are like spongesand they love to learn.
(12:23):
They're the songs that are very muchthe learning about the natural world,
learning about science.
When children have musicto attach facts onto,
it sinks in a lot better.
Music is used in collaboration with otherthings when we teach in all subjects.
(12:44):
There's going to be yourmath teacher in school.
My son's math teacher in grade fivebrought in a lot of music
about math to help them remember howto do order operations or something.
I just did the same thing.
Very, very fun.
Then there's different types of musicthat I write to make sure
that it's not just cognitive.
(13:05):
For instance, grows to fine motor.
I work with a lot of childrenthat might have cerebral palsy.
They might have other differencesor some challenges.
Then you have your children with nochallenges, but they are all
trying to achieve milestones.
As we grow, the normal progressionof a healthy child from
(13:27):
crawling to bouncing, to be able to stand, to bounce, and then to jump.
Then first it's going to be one foot,and then it's going to be two feet.
To write songs that challengethe child to achieve the milestone.
Then the latest album ismore social emotional growth.
It has to do with how to create community.
(13:49):
Disability plays a large part in this one,as well as racism,
standing up against - saying diversity isa good thing, and encouraging children
to not judge a book by its coverand to to listen to these little stories
that can be taken at face value,but you can also think,
Wait, I can ask them later.
Do you think that the shark was reallya mean guy in that song,
(14:12):
or did he just want to play?
But you were afraid when he cameout because he was a shark, right?
He didn't want to eat his friends.
In this song, he had a birthday cake,and he liked to bake,
and he wanted to share his birthday cake.
Can you tell us more about this album?
This album is super exciting.
It's called "Together," and it'sprobably the best word I could think of.
(14:36):
Short to the point abouteveryone has a role in society.
Everyone has importance.
Everyone has value.
Everyone has somethingto bring to the table.
As human beings in the same world,we are better when we work together,
when we're helping one another,when we're supporting one another.
(14:56):
The first song in the album is calledParty, and it starts out
The first verse is, If you walkor if you roll, if you use a walker or
a cane or a chair, just come in the door.
It don't matter how you move,it only matters that you came.
Because everyone in the world is unique,but we're all the same.
We're all the same in that. In an idealworld, we're all welcome to the party.
(15:19):
Everyone is welcome.We make space for everyone.
Some songs about how we can...
Children, as they're growing,they depend on their parents when they
fall down to say, It's okay,it's going to be all right.
Around the age of four,they start to self-regulate,
so they are able to pull themselvestogether and tell themselves, Oh,
(15:41):
that's okay, I'll be fine,and to calm themselves.
So even starting at three,and then at four,
they're moving away from the parentsand they're doing more
interpersonal relationships.
And so a song,Fill Your Bucket, is about that.
So when I'm sad,I can choose to I fill up my own
(16:01):
happiness bucket that's inside of me.
I carry it wherever I go.
The only purpose of it is to holdmy happy feelings about myself.
But when I'm sad,I can do something for myself.
I don't need it from the outside.
It's not extrinsic, it's intrinsic.
For me, I ride a bicycle,and that's the lyrics I used,
or joke with a friend,that fills my happiness bucket.
(16:25):
Now, did you know that you can fill somebody else's happiness bucket at the same time?
I can say that (16:30):
My friend, would you like to play together?
Would you like to play a game?
Would you like to go to a movie?
All of a sudden, I'm happy,so I'm with my friend, but they're happy
because I made themhappy at the same time.
Or you give a friend a compliment,and when they're happy,
it in turn makes you happy.
You can also protect your bucketfrom other people being mean,
(16:50):
put a lid on your bucket.
We still lead with kindness.
We try to give good examples sothat that person will not be a bucket
dipper and will be able to fillup their own bucket someday.
Then there are other songs about inclusionfrom all different perspectives of
everybody needs someone to cheer for them.
(17:10):
Everybody needs a great big hug.
Everybody needs someoneto know their name.
Find someone sitting on theirown and give them some love.
Then the chorus is from theperspective of the child.
I only want to be part of your game,so please include me.
Don't look past me.
I need some friends who know my name,so please include me and love me who I am.
(17:37):
These are songs for children that arestarting at four, but an older
set than the last album.
This new one is more, I'm going to sayK to 6, up to grade 6 to grade 7.
And yeah, trying to make the world a morekind, mutually supportive place
where we cheer on our friendsbecause the reference.
(17:59):
This one song, If we are in a raceand you win, I don't need to be sad.
Even though I lost,you're my friend, so I should
celebrate you because you're my friend.
And when I celebrate you,that makes me happy, too.
This is the lastalbum that you released, right?
(18:19):
This is the one that's coming outin June, and that single is out.
The three songs we just chatted about,The Bucket Song, Party, and Happy For You,
have all been released as singles.
They're out now.They've been out for a few months.
What's the plan with this album launch?
(18:39):
Are you going to tour?
I hope so.
There are some things in the works,but it hasn't been finalized.
I'm hoping to do a lot of school shows.
To do them in blocks where I can take it.
Then to have songs from my last album,I already have them in French.
When I go elsewhere in Canada,I can do a bilingual show.
(19:02):
When we're talking about healthy eating,because you were talking about the one
with the "why do we eat healthy?"
I'm saying, I can eat a rainbow.
Why I eat the rainbow?
Because it helps me growup to be big and strong.
That one's easily translated.
"Je peux manger une banane,"instead of "I can eat a banana."
I've been working on that so that, yeah,it'll be a bilingual will show,
(19:24):
with bilingual question and answer periods.
I hope it will - These songs are meant
to spark conversation, to make you think.
There's often a lotof different layers in there.
It's accessible for a kindergarten orit's accessible for a three-year-old.
But a kid in grade six is going to reada lot more into it,
and they're going to get the much biggerpicture, probably at the adult level.
(19:47):
We could do those with the songs.
It's the questions that getasked even within the family.
Oh, well, I really thoughtthat ending was surprising.
I wasn't expecting that to happen.
Why did that happen? What does that mean?
One thing that is interesting is youcreated your music company
(20:09):
with the idea to putthe children and the parents together
in a room and to make them work togetheron these songs or
have fun together on these songs.
What was the idea behind the company?
Am I correct by assuming that?
Yeah. That's the other part of whatI do is called WeeJam.
(20:29):
Before I was a performer,I created a parent
and child music company that's what wasthen hired up to go into preschools
with the educators of the childrenin place of the parents of the children.
The idea is that when I was growing upin New Finland, I wasn't just
observing and listening to music.
(20:49):
I was actively makingthe music with my family.
It was a collaborative activity thatmeant a lot more
because there are prosocial bonds that can be formed when we make music together.
There are things that we create.
It's like it's biggerthan the sum of its parts.
I wanted to bring that to families.
(21:11):
Some families, the parents don't know how to play any instruments.
I have 10-12 ukuleles on the wall,
and I have them painted with nail polish for the fingerings.
Children are working on their fine motorskills and their pincer grip
by learning to play a C-chord.
Then eventually, they getto the right fingering.
But the parents are doing it too.
(21:32):
The parents go out and buy the ukulele,and then they go home,
and now all of a sudden they have two,and daddy and child are playing together.
Yeah, that's very nice.
It's really, really rewarding, honestly, to see
parents interacting with your children at their level and to see them growing together.
(21:54):
The parents actually modeling,it's okay, I'm learning, too.
That's very special.
Children can go back at home and say...
You remember the part where...
Who are you when you're teachingthese songs? You're Heather Feather?
(22:14):
Sometimes.Sometimes I'm not.
It depends on where I am.
The oldest classes that I haveat the preschools and in
my home studio, I can be.Absolutely.
The children are able to understand.
I also take babies, so that's verymuch more on developmental milestones.
You have your spheres of language,cognitive development,
(22:39):
physical development, finding grossmotor skills in your language.
So getting those in thereand just encouraging the parents to have
fun with the children so that as theygrow, they can grow through my program.
Some of them go off, they do other things.
Some go for a year and then come back.
So they pop in and out of the program.
(23:00):
And as long as the children comeback into an age-appropriate class,
it's like they never left.
Because those children are alsocollaborative and they
work with one another.
One child can go up to the other and say,Try using this finger instead of this one
because they interact like a family.
(23:21):
They've internalizedthe social lessons of helping.
Then in other school, you're Ms. Heather?
In some schools,they call me Heather Feather.
The name actually came because I amin Quebec and the children
couldn't say Heather at all.
I got "Eder," which was okay,but it's not a common name in Montreal.
(23:44):
It's an English name.
They knew, though, what a feather is.
Children, English or French,knew the word feather.
I guess they use them in arts and crafts.
In the preschool, they startedcalling me Ms. Fedda or Ms. Feather.
I thought, Well, I should call myselfthat because they can say that.
That's where Heather Feather came from.
Some call me Ms. Heather,some will say Heather Feather.
(24:09):
Whatever they call me, as longas we're learning and having fun.
But I'm thinking of these conversationsat home where the child comes back
and says, Well, I don'tunderstand exactly what...
I mean, I saw a song about accessibilityand diversity and inclusion but
I don't understand really what it is.
(24:30):
Then it's up to parents to havethis conversation with them.
But it's a fantastic starterto have these conversations.
Also, the parents sometimes don't havethat - never had that conversation
before, whatever it is about
(24:50):
immigration or about human rights.
But that explainedto children through songs.
I have a question that is related to that.
It's about the role of accessibility
in culture in general or in disability
(25:12):
culture, as we can sometimescall it in disability studies.
What is it for you to be in a world whereyou promote accessibility in the arts?
I like it. I only stepped into that part of the rolein the last maybe two or three years.
Three years. Before that, I just didn't bringup that I had multiple sclerosis.
(25:36):
On the days that I wasn't feeling well,I didn't go into work.
Nobody really saw it,and nobody sees chronic fatigue.
If I have a problem with my hand and Ican't finger-pick,
I could always bring the ukulele,and no one would know
that my fingers weren't working.
If I don't tell you, you won't knowbecause I have my own coping mechanisms.
(25:57):
Stepping into that has beenempowering and I really enjoy it.
I like the idea that being more open aboutit now and now moving to the other end
of actually promoting these rights,it gives others the courage to ask
for what they need,to not be afraid to disclose themselves,
(26:18):
to see themselves in you, and to say, Wow,okay, you figured out how you
can still work in this career.
Can we brainstorm?
How do I do it?
It's really, really rewarding.
I feel the same way as I doworking with the children.
It's a privilege and an honor whensomebody takes you into their
(26:42):
confidence in that way.
As for me being the one that's justsending it out there,
I find it's easy with children becausethey're understanding,
they want to understand,and they want to ask questions.
There's nothing wrongwith letting them ask early.
Now, when I have a bad day,I can I remember times in the past couple
of years, I've taken my walkerbecause I was so dizzy, I needed it.
(27:06):
A cane wasn't enough.
So I came in with my four wheeled walkerwith the seat so I could take
a break to sit, and I have my breaks.
And the children said, What is that, Heather Feather?
One of the Jewish schools I teach at,my bubs got one, but why do you have one?
You don't have white hair.
(27:27):
So it was a great discussion.
I explain why I use one,how it's a positive thing,
how it helps me to do what I want to do,just like you wear glasses and it
helps you to see further, right?
I can use this and I can go places
that I wouldn't be able to go to and I can go further.
(27:51):
What is adaptive equipment?Why do we use it?
What's a hearing aid?Why would you use that?
Does this make you any less pinnable? Well, no.
You're always going to find a childin each class that has some difference,
and the children have alreadyaccepted this one child.
Now it's me and I have a difference,and these couple of children have
(28:13):
a difference, and it just becomesa wonderful It's a whole thing.
It's funny because I'm also a voiceteacher and I use a wheelchair.
I teach older kids.
I teach nine plus, until - not 18, but not far.
It was always interesting to see how
(28:34):
students react
to being in a room with someonein a wheelchair and not really asking
questions because my parents told me it's not really polite, right?
But at a certain point it was like, Can I ask a question?
Ah! Finally, go for it.
Ask any question.
(28:56):
Which is the mark of a true teacher.
You want the questions asked.Good for you.
Yes.[Laughs.]
With children, as you say, I also did ECM,
so Early Childhood Music,
and that's no problem.
I always had someone on my kneesand someone like, Can I push you?
Or, Can I run after you?
(29:17):
Never had an issue with thesechildren this age, four to maybe six.
They're very understanding,and they don't see anything as...
They don't see anydifferences as negative.
They just say it'sa difference, but so what?
We know each other from an organization
(29:39):
called RAMPD, Recording Artists andMusic Professionals with Disabilities.
First of all, you are a Pro Member of RAMPD,
meaning you're really embracing nowthis strength of you.
Also, we are not a lot of musicologists,
but I think you're the only
(30:00):
music professional who works with children.
I'm not sure, but I think you arein the whole pack of professionals,
and we have a lot right now.It's 80.
So thank you.
It's been a really great group to join.
It's fabulous.I'm really happy I did.
I know some teach younger children,but I don't think any teach -
(30:23):
any do songs for children themselves.
I'm so happy when I see our conversations in these groups that you can represent that.
I really like being able to do it, too,
because I only found out about RAMPD
(30:44):
through Andrew & Polly when they werenominated for a Grammy for
Best Children's Album of the Year.
Not last year, but the year before.Andrew is blind.
I saw him standing next to Lachi and thought,
Wait, what's this group called?
It's because I was following themon Instagram and I'm saying,
(31:06):
I'm so proud of you.Congratulations.
Then they said something about RAMPD.
Then I said, Well, what is RAMPD?
There's one other member that Iknow that does children's music.
Who's that?
They're Pro members, but they're lovely.
Andrew & Polly, and they're so talented.
Oh, yeah.
They live in California.
Yes, true.
I remember now.
(31:27):
Sorry, Andrew.
But I remember because that'sthe way I found out about the group.
Yes.
Yeah, it's a fantastic group.
They transformed the waythe Grammy Awards are held.
They transformed discussionsin the Recording Academy.
Lachi is really such a greatmotor of this group, really.
(31:51):
Absolutely.
When I was at Folk Alliance Internationalrepresenting RAMPD,
it was just wonderful to be ableto have so many people that had come.
It's a similar thing.
They're either programming for festivals,they're venue owners,
and they want to know how to make surethat the spaces are more accessible.
(32:11):
Processes of application is includingeverybody, that there's
nobody that can't apply.
How do you make sure you'regetting really representative?
Are you scaring people away that are partof the disabled community before they even
get a chance to thinkabout going in the door?
Yeah, some really great discussions there.
(32:33):
Okay, so I have a last question for you.
It's about people who might have countedin your career or might have
motivated you, might havelaunched you to a certain path.
If you had to think of one or maybe twopeople who really were there in your
career for you, who would it be and why?
(32:53):
There are many for many of us.
I think the most impactful two were
the ones that saw that I was disabled
before I knew I was disabledand encouraged me to keep going.
They knew that I was finding it hardand said, But don't give up.
(33:15):
No, we don't know what's wrongwith you, but keep going.
That was special.
In my undergraduate,I was having a lot of health problems,
and I was having problems walkingand with numbness in one leg.
My French Horn teacher,who was also the head of theory,
and she taught musicology, said,I don't know what this is, but take
the day, go get a CAT scan or whatever.
(33:37):
I would be told, I worked with this ladyfor four years, and every time I went in,
I was,Oh, this is a migraine that's just showing
up as part of your motor problems,even if you don't have a headache,
or all kinds of strange things theyare saying, We don't know what this is.
She always encouraged me to keep going.
Then also a lady that was the headof my department, she was my department
(33:59):
chair during the PhD,and we became good friends,
firstly because I answered her call for a library assistant
to go get her books to the library,because at the point,
she couldn't get her motorized wheelchair into the library.
There were renovations going on.
She introduced herself.
Her name is Eleanor Stubley,and she is also a musicologist,
(34:22):
conductor, and she taught musiceducation courses at McGill [University].
She was a triple threat.
She was also a French horn player.
She had been in a chair for very long time, she had a rather
progressive form of multiple sclerosis.
Funny!
Dark sense of humor,soft-spoken, and just so capable.
She figured out I had multiplesclerosis before I knew what it was.
(34:46):
I remember once being upset in her officeafter we'd become friends, and I said,
I don't know what to do.
I saw a neurologist who can't diagnose meand said, I don't meet all the criteria.
She said, You should go to my neurologist.
She picked up her office phone,called her neurologist, and said,
(35:06):
I have an appointment next week.I have a student here.
I need you to give her that appointment.
And she passed over the phone.Because it's hard to get a specialist
in a Canadian healthcare system.
I went to see this specialist,her doctor, who diagnosed me right away.
Within a month, I was on somedisease modification therapy.
(35:28):
She's also the one who encouraged meto take some time away
from teaching at McGill, from studying,to take a year of leave,
to take a maternity leave once I gotmarried, to start a family,
that I could do it,and eventually to encourage me once we
figured out that it was stressof being in academia to step away.
(35:51):
I wouldn't be where I amif it wasn't for her.
I say, I don't owe someone my life,but I owe her my legs.
I would also in a chair by now if itwas not for her and that diagnosis.
It was just an incredible gift.
Yes. People, I think, don't know, don't realizeor don't really see what is happening.
(36:15):
When we are engaging ourselveswith an academic career,
it's very stressful.
We try to do our best with the students.
But also,
what happened to you is that you didn't
have this role model before meeting her
(36:36):
who was like, Everything's going to be all right.
What's the name of your firstteacher who you mentioned?
Her name was Kjellrun Hestekin.
She was a Norwegian lady.She was wonderful.
You have people who don't know what's happening, but who are just
cheering you up and saying everything's going to be all right.
But still, until you meet this personwho's like, I know what's happening.
(37:02):
I went through that.
Then you can see things differentlyand saying, Okay, so I might be okay then.
Exactly.
That's why I'm happy to do what I do nowwith RAMPD, because now when I go
into a conference,I meet people who are where I was,
and I can be that person to them.
It's just a random encounter,but you never know how you affect
(37:24):
the lives of others and howa few kind words and then a quiet
conversation over coffee can help somebody get new perspective,
and they won't give up either.
They'll find a way to work around,because when you're disabled, as you know,
we have so many compensatory mechanisms,so many backup plans,
because we want to get where we're goingor we just want to get
(37:47):
that job done that day.
Well, thank you so much for sharing these stories with us and
your testimonies and your songs.
We're going to sharethat with our listeners.
We're going to publishall important dates and links
on our website so that everybodycan have a look at your work.
(38:10):
Thank you so much.
Well, have a fantastic day and maybesee you soon in the community.
You too.Hope to see you.
Yeah.Bye.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
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