May 23, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with Alexia McLean, a saxophonist, an educator, and a disability rights advocate from Houston, Texas.
During the interview, Alexia McLean mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section.Access Alexia McLean’s resources
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
[Diane:] Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists,academics, and project leaders
(00:24):
who dedicate their time and energyto a better accessibility for people
with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:53):
Today, Artsably is in conversationwith Alexia McLean,
a saxophonist, an educator, and a disabilityrights advocate from Houston, Texas.
You can find the resources mentionedby Alexia McLean during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Excerpt of Ray by Jenni Watson, performed by Alexia McLean at the saxophone ♪
(01:55):
♪ End of the excerpt ♪
[Diane:] Welcome to this new episode ofArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Alexia McLean,who is a saxophonist, an educator,
and a disability rightsadvocate from Houston, Texas.
Welcome, Alexia.
[Alexia:] Thank you so much, Diane, for having me.
(02:16):
I'm excited to be here.
As you've already indicated,my name is Alexia McLean.
I'm a disabled musician,woodwind specialist, and a passionate arts
educator, especially nowwith disability rights accessibility.
I use she/her pronouns.
I'm joining you from my home office in Texas,
Just a quick introduction about me.
(02:39):
My background weaves together performance,education, arts administration altogether.
I taught students from across Kthrough 12 and beyond, to be honest.
College, community program,serving in roles from private woodmen
instructors to elementary musicteachers to band clinician.
It feels like I've done everythingunder the sun at this point.
(03:01):
My career path has taken me from highereducation, music admissions to concert
stages to classrooms acrossthat K through 12 spectrum.
I bring all those experiences of how Iadvocate for inclusion, creative
agency, and equity in the arts.
I think that's really important.
I think that'll also be a good segueinto what I'm doing right now,
(03:23):
artistically and professionally.
Right I'm wrapping up my year asan elementary music teacher
in Houston, Texas,where I have worked with students
from kindergarten allthe way through fifth grade.
I teach a different grade every class,and, woof,
that was a learning curve at first, that's for sure.
(03:44):
I had done quite a few performanceswith them so far, and it's been
such a gratifying experience.
I did a holiday concert with my thirdto fifth graders this past December.
I actually I just did a communityperformance this past weekend
with my fifth graders,where they got to play on a community
stage in front of people they've never metbefore, which to us sounds like a norm,
(04:08):
but to them was a new experience.
They got to play ukulele,and they got to sing Stand by Me by Ben King,
which also was a new song to them.
Got to teach them the oldies but goodies.
I'm also currently working on a spring musical
with my kindergartenthrough second grade.
That is coming up next Thursday.
I am in a whirlwindof finishing things up.
(04:31):
I think like every single educator inprobably all over,
we are very much looking forwardto the summer because things are
just wrapping up very quickly.
Outside the classroom,I currently serve as the Director
of Mentorship for the North American SaxophoneAlliances Committee on Gender Equity.
In that role, I coordinate professionaldevelopment, community building,
(04:53):
one-on-one mentoring for emerging artists
across the United States and in Canada.
Artistically, I am continuing to perform and teach privately
with a focus on woodwind instruction.
I'm trying to lean more into collaborativecreative projects to highlight
accessibility and inclusion in music,but it's also just a really
(05:13):
nice opportunity to play, too.
[Diane:] That's a lot of things.
[Alexia:] I know. It's just a lot of...
It's like, let's talk aboutme in under 90 seconds, right?
[Diane:] Well, let's go back to the beginning.
What made you start saxophone?
[Alexia:] What made me start saxophone?Oh, my gosh.
(05:35):
Well, that is a really fun story.
When I was in sixth grade,there was a surplus of extra sixth
graders at my middle school that I was at.
I'm originally from Orlando, Florida,so I've lived in quite a few
different places by now.
While in Orlando, Florida,started sixth grade.
(05:55):
Wasn't I'm not really surewhat my interests were.
I was involved in different things likecheerleading and stuff like that,
but still trying to figure out who I was.
There was a lot of extra sixth gradersat my school, so they developed a music
appreciation class that the band directorhad to teach,
and I was put into that class.
I guess I don't really remember much aboutit, but this is what
(06:17):
my band director tells me.We still talk.
He said I learned how to read music veryquickly, much quicker than he anticipated
a sixth grader that didn'tdemonstrate initial interest in music.
I think I learned how to read musicin a month or something like
that and just was very interested.
We did a lot of listening to differentthings and identifying
(06:38):
what we were listening to.
I eventually became his helper in classwhere I would help other students
with their theory homework.
At the end of the year,he went up to me and was like,
You're joining band next year.
It wasn't even a negotiable conversation.
It was like, This is what you're doingnext year, and you're going
to have a grand old time doing it.
(06:58):
I was nervous, but I said,Okay, let's try something new.
When he asked me what instruments I wasinterested in, saxophone came to mind
because my
dad always really enjoyed listening to jazz.
He always played Dexter Gordonand John Coltrane and Sonny Rollins.
(07:22):
He also really enjoyed Kenny G, too,and let's be real,
we do I appreciate Kenny G for makingthe saxophone as popular as it is.
I know he gets some
disdain from saxophonists in my community,but that introduced me
to saxophone and what it was.
I thought it was a really cool instrument.
I wanted to do it.
(07:43):
My band director told me, Well,you're going to play clarinet for a year.
So I played clarinet for a year and thentransitioned into saxophone,
my eighth grade year of band.
And by then, oh, my goodness,I fell in love with the instrument.
It was just... There was something about it that just
brought me so much joy every single time Igot to pull the instrument out and put
it to my face and playing through it.
(08:04):
It was a very cathartic experience for me.
So it was almost like a no-brainerpursuing it in high school marching band.
Then moving on into college reallyquickly, I
initially thought that I wanted to pursuemusic for the rest of my life,
but I was convinced otherwise to startdoing something else because music
(08:26):
isn't career, quote, unquote.
I started psychology, and I hated it.
I was a semester in,and I was like, I can't do this.
I miss playing my saxophone.
I miss talking about music.
I miss talking to otherpeople about music.
I was hanging around the music majors a lot
(08:47):
at my school and helping themwith their theory homework.
They would all look at me like, Alexia,why aren't you a music major?
We're really confused right now. That got me thinking, it's like, Okay, well,
now I need to make these decisions for meinstead of just listening to what other
people think I shouldbe doing with my life.
Second semester,switched it right on in music,
(09:08):
and I think the rest is history from there.
[Diane:] I think one of the things we...
I'm also a voice teacher,and I think we have that in common between
teachers that one or several greatteachers in our career
really set us on track.
(09:29):
As teachers today,we think of these people.
Isn't that true?
[Alexia:] It is so true.
It's funny you mentioned that,and what I forgot to mention in my quick
history story about my saxophone origins.
That middle school band director wasmy first private
(09:50):
saxophone professor in college.
It was a full circle moment for me.
It was incredible to seethat shift for us.
And yes, even now when I workwith students, because
like I said,I teach all across the spectrum,
K to 12, college, community, students.
And if I could be that person, that thatband director was for me for one person.
(10:14):
I think you can agree with this, too,Diane, that music has brought such joy
in our lives and haschanged us for the better.
And we feel like we're really makingthis positive impact in our communities.
We want to share the love.
We want to pass it forward, if you will.
[Diane:] Totally.
[Alexia:] Yeah, absolutely.
(10:36):
[Diane:] So, from this path,then you finish your studies,
and then there is a point where you say,I need to become a teacher.
I want to pass it on.I want to be this impact person.
When was this moment for you?
[Alexia:] I think it halfway throughmy undergrad career.
(10:58):
I got this job.
I was working on my undergradin saxophone performance at the
University of North Florida.
Out there, there's this private school
known as the Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
My saxophone professor reached out to me at the time and said,
Hey, they're looking for a saxophone adjunct instructor.
I think you would be really great at this.
I was nervous becauseI never taught before.
(11:23):
I was like, Sure,I'll try it, see if I like it.
And I went to it.
I taught my very first sectional.
And even before going in,I went to my professor,
pen and paper, I was like, what do I do?
What do I do when they walk in?What do I do?
How do I warm them up?
How do I get them to play?
(11:43):
I was like, I don't know what to do.
They're giving me 45 minutes to workwith these 20 students,
and I have no idea what to do with them.
And he helped me to developa whole plan from start to finish.
And then I remember after to that veryfirst sectional, a student went up to me
and she said, Hey, do you teach privately?
And I lied.And I said, Yes.
(12:04):
And she said, Can you be my teacher?
And I said, Sure, let's do it.
And then I went backto the same professor after it.
I was like, What do I do?
How do I get lessons?
How do I do this?
And I was so nervous becauseI was so afraid of failing.
But looking back on it now,it was such an amazing experience because
it showed mewhenever that student gets that aha moment
(12:28):
or that student gets that part rightthe first time or they can't play
altissimo, all of a sudden it clicksfor them because of the way
I taught them how to do it.
Just the happiness that it brought me of,Oh, my gosh, I just helped
this student was amazing.
And as I continued to teach, I wenton and did my master's, and I continued.
(12:50):
So I started developingmy private lessons studio.
I was teaching about 30 to 35 studentsa week while working on my master's,
which was a little crazy,looking back on it now.
Don't know how I did that, but I did.
I was going to several different highschools and middle schools
in the Baton Rouge area when I wasn'tin class or wasn't in rehearsal,
going to those schools,working with those students.
(13:12):
And that really jump started like,okay, I love doing this.
This is something I'mreally passionate about.
I love getting studentsexcited about the saxophone.
I love getting students feeling likethey're getting from point A to point B.
Something I struggled with a lot when Iwas working on playing in high school,
(13:33):
I couldn't afford lessons.
My family couldn't affordthe lessons as much as I wanted to.
And I totally understand why,because there is a cost
associated with doing that thing.
But I felt like I was falling so farbehind all of my peers,
and it made me feel very inferior to them.
(13:54):
And they never intended to act that way towards me,
but they were at this whole new levelthat I couldn't even comprehend,
and I wanted to see whatI could do to get there.
When I was becoming that teacherfor that person and helping them get
to those levels,and not just about playing an instrument,
but about character development,giving them leadership opportunities,
(14:14):
getting a student feeling more comfortablespeaking in front of an audience,
just those kinds of things that are soinherently woven into everything we do as
musicians, that was the turning pointfor me of like, oh, my gosh, I can
change people's lives doing this thing.
And it was very, very exciting.
So I love doing it.
(14:35):
And even today, as a quick example,I'm working on that spring musical
with my K to second graders,and I have a second grader.
There's some speakingroles in the musical.
They're very small, and they're cute,like Dr. Seuss-esque, rhyming things.
And I had a second grader justget total stage fright and started crying.
(14:56):
And I had to pull him aside and talk himthrough it and said,
This feeling is normal.
You're going to be okay.
I believe in you, all of those things,because he was the one that came up to me
and said, Ms. McLean, I want to havea role, but I'm so nervous going on stage.
I told him, I will help you get therebecause I was that shy kid
who was afraid to talk to anyone.
(15:17):
I want to be able to help those studentsblossom out of their shell
and really grow into themselves.
[Diane:] Today, you do that also at universitylevel with the ADI committees
and things like that.Can you talk about that role?
[Alexia:] Yeah, absolutely.
I mentioned I'm the Director of Mentorshipfor the NASA's Committee on Gender Equity.
(15:38):
NASA is short for not space.
North American Saxophone Alliance.
We have a very clearly matching acronym.
I really do enjoy the work that I do
with diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.
Something that I was quickly figuringthrough my college years,
and especially as I was startingto navigate my new disability, is that I
(16:02):
am very much in the minority population.
There's not a lot of representation, one,of female identifying saxophonists,
and two, of disabled identifying artists,and I couldn't find my community.
So I definitely felt isolated a lotin those aspects of my college experience.
While I was working on my undergrad, itwas definitely a boys club, if you will.
(16:26):
I was one of the few women in my studiothat was playing saxophone.
And there were sometroubling times with that.
And I know that a lot of people in myshoes can share some stories with that.
But I think what it taught me is somethinghad to change, something had to give.
And I always tried to change somethinginto an inspirational moment for myself
because I want to be able to becomea better version of myself.
(16:50):
And also, again, that wholeidea of paying it forward.
So I started to involve my efforts into
gender equity-esque things.
So the North American Saxophone Alliancefirst started this committee.
It was known as the Committeeon the Status of Women,
and they started it, I think, 2016, 2017?
(17:13):
No, maybe it was 2018.
It hasn't evenbeen in existence for 10 years.
They wanted to address this very issueof the lack of female identifying
or non-binary identifying saxophonists.
What can we do to get there?
I fill out a volunteer form immediatelyand I was like,
I want to be a part of this.
I don't know how, I don't know what skillsets I can provide you to help you reach
(17:36):
our goal, but I want to be a part of thisbecause I think I found my community.
I surely did.
Meeting with thesewomen and these non-binary saxophonists
who are doing these amazing things allover North America was so inspiring,
and I wanted to become a part of that.
When I shifted my role into actuallybecoming a committee member,
(17:57):
which was this past year, Iwas very excited when I got the call to be
offered to lead the mentorship programbecause everything the mentorship program
is - everything that they stand for is just
everything I believe in,wanting to support those emerging artists,
wanting to give the support that maybethey don't have in their immediate
communities, whether it's within theirimmediate college circle or beyond that,
(18:20):
and giving thema vehicle to be able to figure out what
their strengths are,what their passions are,
what do they want to do with the work that they're doing?
Because I think we, as musicians,are quickly realizing that
as much as we would love to all be paid full-time to only do our performances,
we just don't live in that world anymore.
There's definitely an influx of musiciansthat are amazing, but it's hard.
(18:45):
We also need the folks like ourselvesto be able to advocate for those who maybe
not be able to advocate for themselves.
Doing that has gotten me thinking a lotabout just the landscape of what
music looks like for us, what musicianscareer fields look like.
When I first got out of college,and I'm just backtracking a little bit,
(19:09):
but I did my first job at LSU as their
School of Music Admissions Recruiter.
Basically, my job was to be the persontalking to the parents and saying, yes,
your child can do a degree in music.
This is a very much doable thing.
Yes, There is a job market.
The starving musician stereotype is justit's not an accurate
(19:32):
representation of our job market.
I remember one mom, specifically,went up to me at a fair,
and she said something along the lines of,Can you please convince my child
to not do a degree in music.
She needs to be a doctor.She needs to make money.
I was so shocked that shewas so blunt about it.
(19:53):
I tried really hard to combat that and say No, I don't think that's the case.
I'm actually a professionalmusician myself.
But the mom was having none of it.
She was like, No, what you'resaying is not true, and all of that.
So it got me thinking about, Well,why does this mom feel this way?
We always make the joke about the starvingmusician, and we always joke about how we
(20:16):
had to find 32 gigs to beable to pay our rent.
But why is that the case?Is it us?
Is it the job market?
Is it the general public?
Is it a combination thereof?
I started to do some research on my part.
The unemployment rates,and it's been a while since
I've checked, this is pre-COVID.
(20:36):
I would be interested to look at the dataif it's changed since COVID has hit.
But pre-COVID, when I initially lookedat the data, the unemployment
rate for musicians was 3%.
It was very low.
The highest percentage of unemploymentrates was actually engineer majors.
The major that everyone was being toldto go and pursue was one
(20:59):
of the highest unemployment rates.
Now, underemployment,totally different story.
The unemployment rate is quite highfor musicians, which actually got me
thinking, too, well, why is that the case?
Are we just not educating the generalpublic enough about the work
we do and why it's important?
I think the combination of those twothings really dove me into the work that I do,
(21:22):
because when I was going throughcollege, my experience was very much
teach, perform, or nothing.
There's no room for arts administration.
There's no room for arts advocacy.
There's no room for anythingelse but these two things.
I think that's been...
We've been putting our foot in our ownmouths for quite some time saying
that these are the only two availablecareer paths because now we have this
(21:45):
influx issue and the lack of supportin other areas where we could be really
beneficial working in a studio orworking in an office that
knows how to run a festival.
The festival that I was mentioning that Idid this past weekend,
they told us they had keyboards.
They were toy keyboards.
(22:05):
They were not real ones.
Just that knowledge.
If there was a musician on site,a lot of that would have been fixed.
I think we need to give ourselves morecredit than we are a lot of the time.
[Diane:] For sure.
I would like to go backto your performer career now.
As a performer, you also did a lot ofvery interesting things.
(22:26):
Can you talk about that a bit?
[Alexia:] Yeah, definitely.
As a performer, Ifound myself really drawn to
music that had meaning, if you will.
Not that pieces of music don't havemeaning, but the pieces
that had a really big meaning.
Something I was drawn to.
(22:46):
I was always drawn to whatthe story was behind something.
The first one that exposed me to that wasJacob ter Veldhuis,
if I'm saying his last name correctly,also known as JacobTV.
He's well known for composing music withbacking tracks, so like electronic music.
The first one that I was exposed to duringmy grad degree was Grab It by JacobTV.
(23:11):
If you don't know anything about the pieceor anyone who's listening to the podcast
doesn't know, I'll give a quicksnippet of what it's about.
It's for a tenor saxophone with boombox.
The boombox is playingrecordings of JacobTV's interviews
with prisoners that are serving lifesentences and talking to them about
(23:32):
what their experience is like in prison,what do they value in their lives.
What a lot of these prisoners were sayinga lot of the time is you got to grab life
because you don't know whenyou're going to lose it.
You don't know if tomorrow isgoing to come, all of these things.
These things that sound so cliché to us,but to someone like those individuals
that got their freedom taken away or theycouldn't have not their freedom anymore
(23:57):
for various reasons and haveto think differently.
They have to shift their perspective.
Because at the very beginning,when you listen to this piece of music,
you hear a lot of cursing and the F-bombis being dropped here and there.
A lot of people tend to give,Oh, goodness, I just lost the word.
They give less worth to the piece becauseof it when they initially listen to it
(24:21):
because it's like, Oh, there's cursing in it. I don't like it.
When in reality,it's just to really represent the of what
these prisoners are trying to express.
It's a very cool piece of music.
I performed it at a NASA conference in,
I think, Mississippi in 2019or something like that.
That was my first performance of somethingI felt really connected to because I
(24:45):
always find that when you go through theselife experiences,
it gets you to think about lifedifferently, which I think
is definitely a huge proponent of how Ifeel when it comes to the disability
that I had to start navigatinga couple of years ago.
That was really the jumpstartfor my love for electronic music.
(25:06):
I started diving into that a lot more,finding different performance
opportunities there.
And then fast forward to starting to workin my arts administration work,
I stopped playing.
I totally kicked myself in the buttfor that because I got
busy with my full-time job.
And I was like, Oh, it's okay.
The saxophone's over there, I'll play it later.
(25:27):
And then COVID hit, and we were all forcedto be at home forever,
or it feels like forever, right?
And I was constantly workingbecause I was working from home.
And I think with a lot of otherindividuals across the world were
finding themselves quickly burned out.
So I needed to find a betterway to dive my energy into this.
(25:50):
So I started doing multitrack videos.
And I know those are a lot of what peoplesee when they look at my YouTube
channel, it's like, Whoa, this is different.
And the reason I started doing that is,one, I wanted a creative outlet,
and two, there's something so incrediblynostalgic and amazing about
video game music and TV show music that Iused to watch when I was a kid
(26:14):
or used to play when I was a kid.
There's something about itthat just brings me such joy.
It's almost like the nostalgic feeling.
I think it's called "frusion",if I remember correctly,
that you get whenever you're listeningto something that reminds you
of a beloved childhood memory.
I started doing that and it got sometraction and people were really liking it.
(26:36):
I was also thinking about it from the lensof, well, there's so much content
out there online now, good and bad.
Why don't I put out some stuff out thereof a really cool way
that a saxophone can sound?
Because the saxophone issuch a versatile instrument.
I started making more.
People were loving it.
Now, I haven't made them quite some timebecause I've been moving a lot
(26:58):
and also navigating new life events.
But my plan is once we move into ourforever home, which we're hoping will be
in the next 6-8 months,that we can rebuild our studio
and then I can start recording again.
But I really enjoyed that.
Also, what I love about those videosis it's out there forever now.
It's official video.
(27:19):
It also taught me a lot about videoediting and mixing and mastering my music.
Oh, my goodness, we do not give enoughcredit to those audio engineers
and those video editors.
That is not easy to do,especially when I was doing it by myself.
And I was giving myself a deadline of like,
Okay, I'm going to post a video every week.
(27:40):
That was... It was finding the song,arranging it to be a saxophone quartet,
playing it, recording myself,being happy with my recordings,
and then playing against myself,which is a lot harder than it sounds
because you're playing that one track andthen you have to get them all to match up.
Then mixing, mastering it, then videoingmyself it, and then advertising.
It's crazy.
(28:01):
Now I understand why people havemanagers to handle all of those things.
[Diane:] Wow, yes.
That's the amazing thing is that thesecovers, actually from this COVID time,
we all found ways to be creative
(28:22):
in these times that were really challenging.
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] Yeah, it's a good trace of whateverwe were able to do during these times.
[Alexia:] Yeah, I know.Yeah, absolutely.
[Diane:] Okay, so I wanted to ask you about
some projects that you might do right now.
(28:43):
Do you have specific projectsthat you want to highlight?
[Alexia:] Yes, absolutely.
I'm very excited to share a meaningfulproject that I'm currently working
on right nowis a commission of a saxophone piece
with Electronicswith the composer, Jenni Watson.
She currently lives in the UK.
She's also a saxophone playerand a composer that's becoming pretty well
(29:08):
known in the saxophoneand woodwind community.
Together, we are working on creating a newpiece of music that reflects my experience
navigating a new disability,being in and out of the hospital in 2023,
navigating medical trauma,chronic pain, finding a diagnosis,
(29:28):
navigating just all of those things.
It's a very personal work.
It's grounded in those themes of medicaltrauma, chronic pain,
resilience and transformation.
Just to give a very quick
synopsis of that story,
I was navigating some underlying issues that I didn't know about,
(29:50):
and I had COVID, and COVID exacerbatedthose issues and accelerated them.
I woke up one day and my bones diedin my legs.
So I had to get rushed to the hospital,and it took over seven months to get
a diagnosis becauseof medical gaslighting,
doctors just not believing me,getting bounced around from one
medical specialist to the next.
(30:11):
I mean, just like the epitome of our goodold United States health care system.
And then I finally had to makethe decision for myself
to go to the Mayo Clinic.
They were able to diagnose me and schedulea surgery, really a life-saving surgery for me
within six hours of mebeing at this hospital.
Got the surgery done,and I had to learn how to walk again.
(30:34):
It was a bilateral knee surgery.
I had to learn how to stand up, sit down,go up the stairs, all of those things
that we often take for granted.
And so this commission isn't just abouttelling my story, although that's a very
cathartic part of the process for me.
It's also about opening a spacefor a dialog on how our bodies
(30:56):
shape our identities as artists because wecan't be an artist
without being ourselves.
I think sometimes peoplelose sight of that.
I think that's why musicians also strugglewith personal identity because we put
so much of our identity into our artistry
that we sometimes have a toughtime finding that good balance.
My hope is that it resonateswith musicians and non-musicians and just
(31:21):
listeners of all facetswho don't often see themselves reflected
in music, shaped by healthchallenges or disabilities.
So I'm really excited to premiere itand perform it in a way to both advocate
and connect with different communities.
We've even talked abouttrying to get it connected to the podcast
that had nothing to do with musicand everything to do with medical trauma
(31:42):
and things like that, just becausewhat I navigated in 2023 was something
I never thought I would navigate.
And now that I have answers and I'm movingtowards a place of figuring out my new
identity as myself as an artistand everything like that,
I wish that I had a community that,or at least had others that I could
(32:06):
identify with that could help me betternavigate it because I was treading such
uncharted territory for a very long time.
And it turned out that I had this superrare thing that's only supposed to happen
to cancer patients and all of that.
So whenever you're navigating a disabilitythat is rare, and rare enough to where,
(32:29):
I make a joke about this sometimes,where it's actually a true story.
The Mayo Clinic took pictures and videosof the inside of my legs
during my surgery to use for their medicalresearch because of the
disease or the disorder that I'mnavigating is totally new
territory for post-COVID patients.
So I get to be part of research. Yay!
(32:49):
But just working towards a space where wecould have an open dialog about this,
because something I was mentioning,we were talking about before the podcast
started is I had to start using mobilityaids, and I was so ashamed of it.
I was so incredibly ashamed of needingto use a rollator, needing to use a cane
to get from point A to point B becauseof the way people looked at me.
(33:12):
People look at me funny because I don't look
like the "person," whatever that person
is supposed to look like using a rollator.
I don't look like that personthat the general stereotype things.
Whenever people see someonewith a rollator, they typically imagine,
stereotypically, an olderindividual needing to use it.
(33:35):
I just didn't fit that bill.
That confused a lot of people.
People were quite judgmental.
People even said some things under theirbreath, to my face, all of the above.
It made me very ashamed.
If you take a very close look at some pastpictures of me, you'll see canes
and rollators hiding in the backgrounds
(33:56):
of my pictures because I was afraid to showpeople that this is something
that helps me to live my life better.
A lot of people tend to viewmobility aids as a hindrance.
Like, Oh, I'm so sorry, you need that.
It's like, No, I'm so glad that I can usethis because now I can walk farther
or I can go and enjoy this thing.
(34:17):
I think just opening up that dialogand trying to start to move past a place
where we can talk about the issuesand challenges that ableism presents on society
and presents on who we are as artists, because
there's definitely not enough representation there.
If my commission can do that,that would bring me so much joy.
[Diane:] When will that be performed?
(34:39):
[Alexia:] Oh, goodness.
Hopefully, looking at the endof 2025, early 2026.
[Diane:] Okay, good.
[Alexia:] Yeah. So stay tuned.
[Diane:] Speaking of community, we are both partof a community of professional musicians
with disabilities, RAMPD.
When did you discover RAMPD and
(35:02):
what made you apply and collaborate
with this organization?
[Alexia:] I love RAMPD.
When did I find them?
I think it was towards the...
It was definitely after my surgery.
I think that's when I wastrying to seek a community.
(35:24):
I started following a lot of disabilityadvocates on Instagram because I just
wanted to find a senseof comfort in whatever I was navigating
that I wasn't the onlyperson dealing with it.
But there was always that disconnect of, well,
all of these disability advocates, they are amazing.
And they're very open and talking aboutwhenever they have to deal with ableism
(35:48):
and things like that or just dealingwith a new symptom or
dealing with a new doctor.
But what I kept falling short on was the lack of,
Well, none of these disability advocates are artists.
And I want to findthat connection with someone.
So I think it was -I was Google searching "disabled artist"
or something like that, and RAMPDpopped up on my thing,
(36:10):
and I made myself a profile and I was like, you know what?
This seems like a really cool thing.
And I think is his name Alex?
Is he the operationsofficer or coordinator?
[Diane:] Arthur.
[Alexia:] Arthur! Thank you.
Sorry, Arthur, if you're listening.
Arthur reached out to me and said, Hey,I would love to chat with you,
have a conversation with you.
And he was so awesome to talk to.
(36:32):
Definitely made me feel like I belonged,gave me a sense of belonging,
talked to me about everything RAMPD wasdoing, and talked to me about why
they believe it was important.
I found a sense of community.
And ever since joining that,I got to meet you and some other composers
that I started collaborating with.
(36:53):
So there's this one composerthat I started collaborating with.
I believe they live somewhere in Europe,or maybe it was the UK,
if I remember correctly,and just doing collaborations on that.
So it's just it's such a great way to meetnew musicians and artists and just
having something to connect over.
Again, finding your community isincredibly difficult at its best,
(37:16):
and I don't think we are at its best whenit comes to a disabled artist community.
I mean, it was really difficultto try to find something.
And then once I found RAMPD, I was like,Okay, I think I found a community
that I could really relate to.
[Diane:] This is a good segue to my next question,which is about the representation
of disability in disabilityculture and why it is important.
(37:39):
You already replied a little bit to thisquestion, but what is it for you to work
in an environment that promotesaccessibility in the arts
and in disability culture?
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
This is something I think about quitea bit, but thinking about this question
in specifics, it definitelycaused me to do some deep diving
(38:01):
of reflection upon myselfon what it means to me.
With the arts, accessibility in the arts,I think, is more about
developing accessible - the blue handicapsign and ramps and closed captions
and having an ASL interpreter.
I think it means more than that.
I think it's about creating systems,expectations,
(38:24):
changing stereotypes and that makesparticipation possible for everyone,
from students to performersto administrators, regardless of ability.
Disability culture, I think, is really...
It's funny because when I first startednavigating this disability, again,
I think a lot of the same emotionsthat people deal with is feeling shame
(38:45):
and all of those kinds of things.
But disability culture should really beabout embracing your creativity,
adaptability, and deep insight that comesfrom navigating the world differently.
It definitely causes you to seethe world a little differently.
It's also not about being forcedto separate my identity either.
I'm a disabled person,I'm an artist, I'm both.
(39:06):
It's all within myself, right?
I think my lived experiences actually
helps to level up my teaching ability,
my performance ability,my leadership ability, because I look
at life through a different lens now.
When we build art spaces where disabilityis recognized as a valuable perspective,
not a deficit, because I think that'ssomething that folks are still
(39:29):
having a tough time navigating.
We can open the door to such a muchmore creative and vibrant ecosystem.
Something that RAMPD,which I'm sure you already know about
talking about literally creating that rampat the Grammys, so that way performers,
regardless of ability of walking upand down the stairs, can go on the stage
(39:51):
at the same capacity as everyone else.
Things that you didn't even realize wereneeded until you needed
to have that access.
I think those kinds of things arewhat we need to conversate more about.
[Diane:] Definitely.
[Laughs.]
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] I have a last question, which is aboutpeople who might have counted in your
(40:16):
career or have showed you somepaths that you are right now using.
If you had to think of someonewho motivated or counted in this
path of yours, who would it be and why?
[Alexia:] Oh, goodness. There's so many people!
(40:39):
I know this sounds a little cliché orcheesy, but I'm going to have to give
a quick shout out to my husband,Sean McLean.
He is a full-time percussionist,so he's a musician as well,
so he understands the ins outs of themusic community and everything like that.
And he has been with me every single stepof the way, whether it was taking me
(41:03):
to doctor's appointments or helpingme to figure out how to better advocate
for myself or helping me to figure outwhat career pathway
is the right fit for me.
I think your significant other,your life partner,
knows you better than yourself sometimes.
So I'm very grateful for his supportbecause a lot of what he and I have done
(41:24):
together, I think is a testament to that and that
support, because when you navigate newchallenges in your life, you need someone
to have that immediate support towards.
Shifting on to a more specific artist,a disabled artist,
I think I have to say Lachi.
Lachi, excuse me.
(41:45):
She, if you don't know her,she is the founder of RAMPD.
Diane and I keep talking about RAMPD,and RAMPD is Recording Artists and Music
Professionals with Disabilities.She was the founder.
While I never really have spoken with her directly,
the minute I discovered who she was,I felt instantly inspired and instantly
like, Oh, my gosh,there is a space for us.
(42:07):
There is a space for disabled artiststo thrive, not just exist, but thrive.
She is a powerhouse.Oh, my goodness.
She is a musician, disability advocate.
Her visibility and leadership, I think,not only opened doors,
but shifted the conversation around accessibility
and representation in the music industry.
Seeing someoneso unapologetically herself,
(42:33):
leading with disability pride whileleading systematic change, oh, my gosh.
It's inspired me and made me realize,not only is there room for us,
but make room for us, please.Here we are.
Just having that confidence in ourselvesof who we are that we don't have
to compromise our authenticityin our space to create an impact.
(42:53):
I'm really grateful for her work in that.
Even though I've never have personally hada conversation with her, I've seen her
do talks and performances and stuff.
It's inspiring.
It's breathtaking, honestly,to see the work that she does.
[Diane:] Well, the story thatlaunched RAMPD is that...
(43:15):
I know her from before RAMPD.
[Alexia:] Oh, my goodness.
[Diane:] When she started talking aboutconversations with the Grammy Awards,
about accessibility and inclusion.
Then she realized - she put some peopletogether, and she's the cofounder,
actually, because Gaelynn Lea was also in
(43:37):
that pack that founded RAMPD
at the very beginning. They both realized that when people wanted
to meet artists with disabilities,they didn't know where to go.
As you say,because of the lack of representation,
and they were talking about it very well,we couldn't find anything.
(43:57):
They did a talk for the Grammysor for the Recording Academy.
At the end, the person says,Oh, yeah, sure.
We are going to contact you back,and then we continue the conversation.
Who is we?
I mean, there is this musician,this musician, this musician.
There is no we.
We don't have an ensemble.
(44:19):
We don't have an association.
We don't have a coalition.
We should create that.
They were both very,very excited about the fact that we needed
to create that,and that's when it started RAMPD.
She's always been very verbal and...
and here present in the room.
When she's present in the room,she is not unnoticed.
(44:43):
Everybody's turning the eyes towardher direction, and then she glows.
I mean, really like her cane.
She uses a glow cane. That's exactly it.
[Alexia:] I saw that. That is amazing.
[Diane:] It matches her personality, really.
So, yeah, she's amazing.
[Alexia:] Yeah, she's really wonderful.
(45:03):
I'm very grateful for how authentic she isabout herself because I think authenticity
is something that musicianssometimes struggle with.
I feel like a lot of times when we tryto represent ourselves outwardly,
whether it's online or in a presentationor even in a conversation like this,
I feel like a lot of times we try to acthow we think we should act instead of just
(45:27):
being the best versions of ourselves.
[Diane:] Yeah, we should be the best version of ourselves.
[Alexia:] We are all different and important,and we all have something to contribute.
There's no need for all of us to try to act like the same
entity that we think we need to be.
The world is constantly changing.
(45:48):
I think disability has changed the way Imove through the world,
but I think it's also deepenedmy commitment to inclusion and given me
new tools for connection and resilience.
I want to continue to build those communities
where people can feel seenand not in spite of their differences,
but because of them.
That's why, going back to Lachi, it'samazing to see the work that she does.
(46:10):
When it's something as simplistic as, Hey,check out this amazing outfit that I'm
wearing at this awards ceremony.
I don't remember what she posted recently, what she was at, but
I was like, Oh, my gosh, that dress, everything just from head to toe, just amazing.
Like you said, when she walks in a room,everyone looks, she's there.
(46:33):
Everyone knows she's there.
[Diane:] You know, this kind of advocacy for musicians with disabilities
today, it's really important,especially now.
Especially now that we live in thatworld where we look at each other
and say, How did that happen?
(46:53):
[Alexia:] Yeah. And we look at such a digital world now that we might as well just
take this and run with it.
Start to put onto paper,literally and figuratively,
that this is the pathway we want to go in.
[Diane:] Well, thank you so much for this lovely conversation.
It was really interesting.
(47:14):
[Alexia:] Thank you.
[Diane:] Yeah, I think we will see each otherat another RAMPD event sometimes.
[Alexia:] Absolutely.Many, many coming forward.
But thank you so much for having me.
I'm really grateful for this spaceto share my journey as all of the above,
musician, educator, advocate,navigating a disability.
(47:36):
If I could leave a quick message to thoselistening is that we don't have to
separate our artistry from our advocacy.They can coexist.
They could feed on each other and
can inherently make our work much more powerful.
I'm excited to keep learningand collaborating and pushing towards
(47:56):
a better version of myself,whatever that looks like,
and I hope that others can do the same.
Again, thank you so muchfor having me, Diane.
It was a pleasure.
[Diane:] Thank you so much, and see you soon.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
[Diane:] Hello, and welcome to this episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists,academics, and project leaders
(00:24):
who dedicate their time and energyto a better accessibility for people
with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of these conversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:53):
Today, Artsably is in conversationwith Alexia McLean,
a saxophonist, an educator, and a disabilityrights advocate from Houston, Texas.
You can find the resources mentionedby Alexia McLean during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.
♪ Excerpt of Ray by Jenni Watson, performed by Alexia McLean at the saxophone ♪
(01:55):
♪ End of the excerpt ♪
[Diane:] Welcome to this new episode ofArtsAbly in Conversation.
Today, I am with Alexia McLean,who is a saxophonist, an educator,
and a disability rightsadvocate from Houston, Texas.
Welcome, Alexia.
[Alexia:] Thank you so much, Diane, for having me.
(02:16):
I'm excited to be here.
As you've already indicated,my name is Alexia McLean.
I'm a disabled musician,woodwind specialist, and a passionate arts
educator, especially nowwith disability rights accessibility.
I use she/her pronouns.
I'm joining you from my home office in Texas,
Just a quick introduction about me.
(02:39):
My background weaves together performance,education, arts administration altogether.
I taught students from across Kthrough 12 and beyond, to be honest.
College, community program,serving in roles from private woodmen
instructors to elementary musicteachers to band clinician.
It feels like I've done everythingunder the sun at this point.
(03:01):
My career path has taken me from highereducation, music admissions to concert
stages to classrooms acrossthat K through 12 spectrum.
I bring all those experiences of how Iadvocate for inclusion, creative
agency, and equity in the arts.
I think that's really important.
I think that'll also be a good segueinto what I'm doing right now,
(03:23):
artistically and professionally.
Right I'm wrapping up my year asan elementary music teacher
in Houston, Texas,where I have worked with students
from kindergarten allthe way through fifth grade.
I teach a different grade every class,and, woof,
that was a learning curve at first, that's for sure.
(03:44):
I had done quite a few performanceswith them so far, and it's been
such a gratifying experience.
I did a holiday concert with my thirdto fifth graders this past December.
I actually I just did a communityperformance this past weekend
with my fifth graders,where they got to play on a community
stage in front of people they've never metbefore, which to us sounds like a norm,
(04:08):
but to them was a new experience.
They got to play ukulele,and they got to sing Stand by Me by Ben King,
which also was a new song to them.
Got to teach them the oldies but goodies.
I'm also currently working on a spring musical
with my kindergartenthrough second grade.
That is coming up next Thursday.
I am in a whirlwindof finishing things up.
(04:31):
I think like every single educator inprobably all over,
we are very much looking forwardto the summer because things are
just wrapping up very quickly.
Outside the classroom,I currently serve as the Director
of Mentorship for the North American SaxophoneAlliances Committee on Gender Equity.
In that role, I coordinate professionaldevelopment, community building,
(04:53):
one-on-one mentoring for emerging artists
across the United States and in Canada.
Artistically, I am continuing to perform and teach privately
with a focus on woodwind instruction.
I'm trying to lean more into collaborativecreative projects to highlight
accessibility and inclusion in music,but it's also just a really
(05:13):
nice opportunity to play, too.
[Diane:] That's a lot of things.
[Alexia:] I know. It's just a lot of...
It's like, let's talk aboutme in under 90 seconds, right?
[Diane:] Well, let's go back to the beginning.
What made you start saxophone?
[Alexia:] What made me start saxophone?Oh, my gosh.
(05:35):
Well, that is a really fun story.
When I was in sixth grade,there was a surplus of extra sixth
graders at my middle school that I was at.
I'm originally from Orlando, Florida,so I've lived in quite a few
different places by now.
While in Orlando, Florida,started sixth grade.
(05:55):
Wasn't I'm not really surewhat my interests were.
I was involved in different things likecheerleading and stuff like that,
but still trying to figure out who I was.
There was a lot of extra sixth gradersat my school, so they developed a music
appreciation class that the band directorhad to teach,
and I was put into that class.
I guess I don't really remember much aboutit, but this is what
(06:17):
my band director tells me.We still talk.
He said I learned how to read music veryquickly, much quicker than he anticipated
a sixth grader that didn'tdemonstrate initial interest in music.
I think I learned how to read musicin a month or something like
that and just was very interested.
We did a lot of listening to differentthings and identifying
(06:38):
what we were listening to.
I eventually became his helper in classwhere I would help other students
with their theory homework.
At the end of the year,he went up to me and was like,
You're joining band next year.
It wasn't even a negotiable conversation.
It was like, This is what you're doingnext year, and you're going
to have a grand old time doing it.
(06:58):
I was nervous, but I said,Okay, let's try something new.
When he asked me what instruments I wasinterested in, saxophone came to mind
because my
dad always really enjoyed listening to jazz.
He always played Dexter Gordonand John Coltrane and Sonny Rollins.
(07:22):
He also really enjoyed Kenny G, too,and let's be real,
we do I appreciate Kenny G for makingthe saxophone as popular as it is.
I know he gets some
disdain from saxophonists in my community,but that introduced me
to saxophone and what it was.
I thought it was a really cool instrument.
I wanted to do it.
(07:43):
My band director told me, Well,you're going to play clarinet for a year.
So I played clarinet for a year and thentransitioned into saxophone,
my eighth grade year of band.
And by then, oh, my goodness,I fell in love with the instrument.
It was just... There was something about it that just
brought me so much joy every single time Igot to pull the instrument out and put
it to my face and playing through it.
(08:04):
It was a very cathartic experience for me.
So it was almost like a no-brainerpursuing it in high school marching band.
Then moving on into college reallyquickly, I
initially thought that I wanted to pursuemusic for the rest of my life,
but I was convinced otherwise to startdoing something else because music
(08:26):
isn't career, quote, unquote.
I started psychology, and I hated it.
I was a semester in,and I was like, I can't do this.
I miss playing my saxophone.
I miss talking about music.
I miss talking to otherpeople about music.
I was hanging around the music majors a lot
(08:47):
at my school and helping themwith their theory homework.
They would all look at me like, Alexia,why aren't you a music major?
We're really confused right now. That got me thinking, it's like, Okay, well,
now I need to make these decisions for meinstead of just listening to what other
people think I shouldbe doing with my life.
Second semester,switched it right on in music,
(09:08):
and I think the rest is history from there.
[Diane:] I think one of the things we...
I'm also a voice teacher,and I think we have that in common between
teachers that one or several greatteachers in our career
really set us on track.
(09:29):
As teachers today,we think of these people.
Isn't that true?
[Alexia:] It is so true.
It's funny you mentioned that,and what I forgot to mention in my quick
history story about my saxophone origins.
That middle school band director wasmy first private
(09:50):
saxophone professor in college.
It was a full circle moment for me.
It was incredible to seethat shift for us.
And yes, even now when I workwith students, because
like I said,I teach all across the spectrum,
K to 12, college, community, students.
And if I could be that person, that thatband director was for me for one person.
(10:14):
I think you can agree with this, too,Diane, that music has brought such joy
in our lives and haschanged us for the better.
And we feel like we're really makingthis positive impact in our communities.
We want to share the love.
We want to pass it forward, if you will.
[Diane:] Totally.
[Alexia:] Yeah, absolutely.
(10:36):
[Diane:] So, from this path,then you finish your studies,
and then there is a point where you say,I need to become a teacher.
I want to pass it on.I want to be this impact person.
When was this moment for you?
[Alexia:] I think it halfway throughmy undergrad career.
(10:58):
I got this job.
I was working on my undergradin saxophone performance at the
University of North Florida.
Out there, there's this private school
known as the Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
My saxophone professor reached out to me at the time and said,
Hey, they're looking for a saxophone adjunct instructor.
I think you would be really great at this.
I was nervous becauseI never taught before.
(11:23):
I was like, Sure,I'll try it, see if I like it.
And I went to it.
I taught my very first sectional.
And even before going in,I went to my professor,
pen and paper, I was like, what do I do?
What do I do when they walk in?What do I do?
How do I warm them up?
How do I get them to play?
(11:43):
I was like, I don't know what to do.
They're giving me 45 minutes to workwith these 20 students,
and I have no idea what to do with them.
And he helped me to developa whole plan from start to finish.
And then I remember after to that veryfirst sectional, a student went up to me
and she said, Hey, do you teach privately?
And I lied.And I said, Yes.
(12:04):
And she said, Can you be my teacher?
And I said, Sure, let's do it.
And then I went backto the same professor after it.
I was like, What do I do?
How do I get lessons?
How do I do this?
And I was so nervous becauseI was so afraid of failing.
But looking back on it now,it was such an amazing experience because
it showed mewhenever that student gets that aha moment
(12:28):
or that student gets that part rightthe first time or they can't play
altissimo, all of a sudden it clicksfor them because of the way
I taught them how to do it.
Just the happiness that it brought me of,Oh, my gosh, I just helped
this student was amazing.
And as I continued to teach, I wenton and did my master's, and I continued.
(12:50):
So I started developingmy private lessons studio.
I was teaching about 30 to 35 studentsa week while working on my master's,
which was a little crazy,looking back on it now.
Don't know how I did that, but I did.
I was going to several different highschools and middle schools
in the Baton Rouge area when I wasn'tin class or wasn't in rehearsal,
going to those schools,working with those students.
(13:12):
And that really jump started like,okay, I love doing this.
This is something I'mreally passionate about.
I love getting studentsexcited about the saxophone.
I love getting students feeling likethey're getting from point A to point B.
Something I struggled with a lot when Iwas working on playing in high school,
(13:33):
I couldn't afford lessons.
My family couldn't affordthe lessons as much as I wanted to.
And I totally understand why,because there is a cost
associated with doing that thing.
But I felt like I was falling so farbehind all of my peers,
and it made me feel very inferior to them.
(13:54):
And they never intended to act that way towards me,
but they were at this whole new levelthat I couldn't even comprehend,
and I wanted to see whatI could do to get there.
When I was becoming that teacherfor that person and helping them get
to those levels,and not just about playing an instrument,
but about character development,giving them leadership opportunities,
(14:14):
getting a student feeling more comfortablespeaking in front of an audience,
just those kinds of things that are soinherently woven into everything we do as
musicians, that was the turning pointfor me of like, oh, my gosh, I can
change people's lives doing this thing.
And it was very, very exciting.
So I love doing it.
(14:35):
And even today, as a quick example,I'm working on that spring musical
with my K to second graders,and I have a second grader.
There's some speakingroles in the musical.
They're very small, and they're cute,like Dr. Seuss-esque, rhyming things.
And I had a second grader justget total stage fright and started crying.
(14:56):
And I had to pull him aside and talk himthrough it and said,
This feeling is normal.
You're going to be okay.
I believe in you, all of those things,because he was the one that came up to me
and said, Ms. McLean, I want to havea role, but I'm so nervous going on stage.
I told him, I will help you get therebecause I was that shy kid
who was afraid to talk to anyone.
(15:17):
I want to be able to help those studentsblossom out of their shell
and really grow into themselves.
[Diane:] Today, you do that also at universitylevel with the ADI committees
and things like that.Can you talk about that role?
[Alexia:] Yeah, absolutely.
I mentioned I'm the Director of Mentorshipfor the NASA's Committee on Gender Equity.
(15:38):
NASA is short for not space.
North American Saxophone Alliance.
We have a very clearly matching acronym.
I really do enjoy the work that I do
with diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.
Something that I was quickly figuringthrough my college years,
and especially as I was startingto navigate my new disability, is that I
(16:02):
am very much in the minority population.
There's not a lot of representation, one,of female identifying saxophonists,
and two, of disabled identifying artists,and I couldn't find my community.
So I definitely felt isolated a lotin those aspects of my college experience.
While I was working on my undergrad, itwas definitely a boys club, if you will.
(16:26):
I was one of the few women in my studiothat was playing saxophone.
And there were sometroubling times with that.
And I know that a lot of people in myshoes can share some stories with that.
But I think what it taught me is somethinghad to change, something had to give.
And I always tried to change somethinginto an inspirational moment for myself
because I want to be able to becomea better version of myself.
(16:50):
And also, again, that wholeidea of paying it forward.
So I started to involve my efforts into
gender equity-esque things.
So the North American Saxophone Alliancefirst started this committee.
It was known as the Committeeon the Status of Women,
and they started it, I think, 2016, 2017?
(17:13):
No, maybe it was 2018.
It hasn't evenbeen in existence for 10 years.
They wanted to address this very issueof the lack of female identifying
or non-binary identifying saxophonists.
What can we do to get there?
I fill out a volunteer form immediatelyand I was like,
I want to be a part of this.
I don't know how, I don't know what skillsets I can provide you to help you reach
(17:36):
our goal, but I want to be a part of thisbecause I think I found my community.
I surely did.
Meeting with thesewomen and these non-binary saxophonists
who are doing these amazing things allover North America was so inspiring,
and I wanted to become a part of that.
When I shifted my role into actuallybecoming a committee member,
(17:57):
which was this past year, Iwas very excited when I got the call to be
offered to lead the mentorship programbecause everything the mentorship program
is - everything that they stand for is just
everything I believe in,wanting to support those emerging artists,
wanting to give the support that maybethey don't have in their immediate
communities, whether it's within theirimmediate college circle or beyond that,
(18:20):
and giving thema vehicle to be able to figure out what
their strengths are,what their passions are,
what do they want to do with the work that they're doing?
Because I think we, as musicians,are quickly realizing that
as much as we would love to all be paid full-time to only do our performances,
we just don't live in that world anymore.
There's definitely an influx of musiciansthat are amazing, but it's hard.
(18:45):
We also need the folks like ourselvesto be able to advocate for those who maybe
not be able to advocate for themselves.
Doing that has gotten me thinking a lotabout just the landscape of what
music looks like for us, what musicianscareer fields look like.
When I first got out of college,and I'm just backtracking a little bit,
(19:09):
but I did my first job at LSU as their
School of Music Admissions Recruiter.
Basically, my job was to be the persontalking to the parents and saying, yes,
your child can do a degree in music.
This is a very much doable thing.
Yes, There is a job market.
The starving musician stereotype is justit's not an accurate
(19:32):
representation of our job market.
I remember one mom, specifically,went up to me at a fair,
and she said something along the lines of,Can you please convince my child
to not do a degree in music.
She needs to be a doctor.She needs to make money.
I was so shocked that shewas so blunt about it.
(19:53):
I tried really hard to combat that and say No, I don't think that's the case.
I'm actually a professionalmusician myself.
But the mom was having none of it.
She was like, No, what you'resaying is not true, and all of that.
So it got me thinking about, Well,why does this mom feel this way?
We always make the joke about the starvingmusician, and we always joke about how we
(20:16):
had to find 32 gigs to beable to pay our rent.
But why is that the case?Is it us?
Is it the job market?
Is it the general public?
Is it a combination thereof?
I started to do some research on my part.
The unemployment rates,and it's been a while since
I've checked, this is pre-COVID.
(20:36):
I would be interested to look at the dataif it's changed since COVID has hit.
But pre-COVID, when I initially lookedat the data, the unemployment
rate for musicians was 3%.
It was very low.
The highest percentage of unemploymentrates was actually engineer majors.
The major that everyone was being toldto go and pursue was one
(20:59):
of the highest unemployment rates.
Now, underemployment,totally different story.
The unemployment rate is quite highfor musicians, which actually got me
thinking, too, well, why is that the case?
Are we just not educating the generalpublic enough about the work
we do and why it's important?
I think the combination of those twothings really dove me into the work that I do,
(21:22):
because when I was going throughcollege, my experience was very much
teach, perform, or nothing.
There's no room for arts administration.
There's no room for arts advocacy.
There's no room for anythingelse but these two things.
I think that's been...
We've been putting our foot in our ownmouths for quite some time saying
that these are the only two availablecareer paths because now we have this
(21:45):
influx issue and the lack of supportin other areas where we could be really
beneficial working in a studio orworking in an office that
knows how to run a festival.
The festival that I was mentioning that Idid this past weekend,
they told us they had keyboards.
They were toy keyboards.
(22:05):
They were not real ones.
Just that knowledge.
If there was a musician on site,a lot of that would have been fixed.
I think we need to give ourselves morecredit than we are a lot of the time.
[Diane:] For sure.
I would like to go backto your performer career now.
As a performer, you also did a lot ofvery interesting things.
(22:26):
Can you talk about that a bit?
[Alexia:] Yeah, definitely.
As a performer, Ifound myself really drawn to
music that had meaning, if you will.
Not that pieces of music don't havemeaning, but the pieces
that had a really big meaning.
Something I was drawn to.
(22:46):
I was always drawn to whatthe story was behind something.
The first one that exposed me to that wasJacob ter Veldhuis,
if I'm saying his last name correctly,also known as JacobTV.
He's well known for composing music withbacking tracks, so like electronic music.
The first one that I was exposed to duringmy grad degree was Grab It by JacobTV.
(23:11):
If you don't know anything about the pieceor anyone who's listening to the podcast
doesn't know, I'll give a quicksnippet of what it's about.
It's for a tenor saxophone with boombox.
The boombox is playingrecordings of JacobTV's interviews
with prisoners that are serving lifesentences and talking to them about
(23:32):
what their experience is like in prison,what do they value in their lives.
What a lot of these prisoners were sayinga lot of the time is you got to grab life
because you don't know whenyou're going to lose it.
You don't know if tomorrow isgoing to come, all of these things.
These things that sound so cliché to us,but to someone like those individuals
that got their freedom taken away or theycouldn't have not their freedom anymore
(23:57):
for various reasons and haveto think differently.
They have to shift their perspective.
Because at the very beginning,when you listen to this piece of music,
you hear a lot of cursing and the F-bombis being dropped here and there.
A lot of people tend to give,Oh, goodness, I just lost the word.
They give less worth to the piece becauseof it when they initially listen to it
(24:21):
because it's like, Oh, there's cursing in it. I don't like it.
When in reality,it's just to really represent the of what
these prisoners are trying to express.
It's a very cool piece of music.
I performed it at a NASA conference in,
I think, Mississippi in 2019or something like that.
That was my first performance of somethingI felt really connected to because I
(24:45):
always find that when you go through theselife experiences,
it gets you to think about lifedifferently, which I think
is definitely a huge proponent of how Ifeel when it comes to the disability
that I had to start navigatinga couple of years ago.
That was really the jumpstartfor my love for electronic music.
(25:06):
I started diving into that a lot more,finding different performance
opportunities there.
And then fast forward to starting to workin my arts administration work,
I stopped playing.
I totally kicked myself in the buttfor that because I got
busy with my full-time job.
And I was like, Oh, it's okay.
The saxophone's over there, I'll play it later.
(25:27):
And then COVID hit, and we were all forcedto be at home forever,
or it feels like forever, right?
And I was constantly workingbecause I was working from home.
And I think with a lot of otherindividuals across the world were
finding themselves quickly burned out.
So I needed to find a betterway to dive my energy into this.
(25:50):
So I started doing multitrack videos.
And I know those are a lot of what peoplesee when they look at my YouTube
channel, it's like, Whoa, this is different.
And the reason I started doing that is,one, I wanted a creative outlet,
and two, there's something so incrediblynostalgic and amazing about
video game music and TV show music that Iused to watch when I was a kid
(26:14):
or used to play when I was a kid.
There's something about itthat just brings me such joy.
It's almost like the nostalgic feeling.
I think it's called "frusion",if I remember correctly,
that you get whenever you're listeningto something that reminds you
of a beloved childhood memory.
I started doing that and it got sometraction and people were really liking it.
(26:36):
I was also thinking about it from the lensof, well, there's so much content
out there online now, good and bad.
Why don't I put out some stuff out thereof a really cool way
that a saxophone can sound?
Because the saxophone issuch a versatile instrument.
I started making more.
People were loving it.
Now, I haven't made them quite some timebecause I've been moving a lot
(26:58):
and also navigating new life events.
But my plan is once we move into ourforever home, which we're hoping will be
in the next 6-8 months,that we can rebuild our studio
and then I can start recording again.
But I really enjoyed that.
Also, what I love about those videosis it's out there forever now.
It's official video.
(27:19):
It also taught me a lot about videoediting and mixing and mastering my music.
Oh, my goodness, we do not give enoughcredit to those audio engineers
and those video editors.
That is not easy to do,especially when I was doing it by myself.
And I was giving myself a deadline of like,
Okay, I'm going to post a video every week.
(27:40):
That was... It was finding the song,arranging it to be a saxophone quartet,
playing it, recording myself,being happy with my recordings,
and then playing against myself,which is a lot harder than it sounds
because you're playing that one track andthen you have to get them all to match up.
Then mixing, mastering it, then videoingmyself it, and then advertising.
It's crazy.
(28:01):
Now I understand why people havemanagers to handle all of those things.
[Diane:] Wow, yes.
That's the amazing thing is that thesecovers, actually from this COVID time,
we all found ways to be creative
(28:22):
in these times that were really challenging.
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] Yeah, it's a good trace of whateverwe were able to do during these times.
[Alexia:] Yeah, I know.Yeah, absolutely.
[Diane:] Okay, so I wanted to ask you about
some projects that you might do right now.
(28:43):
Do you have specific projectsthat you want to highlight?
[Alexia:] Yes, absolutely.
I'm very excited to share a meaningfulproject that I'm currently working
on right nowis a commission of a saxophone piece
with Electronicswith the composer, Jenni Watson.
She currently lives in the UK.
She's also a saxophone playerand a composer that's becoming pretty well
(29:08):
known in the saxophoneand woodwind community.
Together, we are working on creating a newpiece of music that reflects my experience
navigating a new disability,being in and out of the hospital in 2023,
navigating medical trauma,chronic pain, finding a diagnosis,
(29:28):
navigating just all of those things.
It's a very personal work.
It's grounded in those themes of medicaltrauma, chronic pain,
resilience and transformation.
Just to give a very quick
synopsis of that story,
I was navigating some underlying issues that I didn't know about,
(29:50):
and I had COVID, and COVID exacerbatedthose issues and accelerated them.
I woke up one day and my bones diedin my legs.
So I had to get rushed to the hospital,and it took over seven months to get
a diagnosis becauseof medical gaslighting,
doctors just not believing me,getting bounced around from one
medical specialist to the next.
(30:11):
I mean, just like the epitome of our goodold United States health care system.
And then I finally had to makethe decision for myself
to go to the Mayo Clinic.
They were able to diagnose me and schedulea surgery, really a life-saving surgery for me
within six hours of mebeing at this hospital.
Got the surgery done,and I had to learn how to walk again.
(30:34):
It was a bilateral knee surgery.
I had to learn how to stand up, sit down,go up the stairs, all of those things
that we often take for granted.
And so this commission isn't just abouttelling my story, although that's a very
cathartic part of the process for me.
It's also about opening a spacefor a dialog on how our bodies
(30:56):
shape our identities as artists because wecan't be an artist
without being ourselves.
I think sometimes peoplelose sight of that.
I think that's why musicians also strugglewith personal identity because we put
so much of our identity into our artistry
that we sometimes have a toughtime finding that good balance.
My hope is that it resonateswith musicians and non-musicians and just
(31:21):
listeners of all facetswho don't often see themselves reflected
in music, shaped by healthchallenges or disabilities.
So I'm really excited to premiere itand perform it in a way to both advocate
and connect with different communities.
We've even talked abouttrying to get it connected to the podcast
that had nothing to do with musicand everything to do with medical trauma
(31:42):
and things like that, just becausewhat I navigated in 2023 was something
I never thought I would navigate.
And now that I have answers and I'm movingtowards a place of figuring out my new
identity as myself as an artistand everything like that,
I wish that I had a community that,or at least had others that I could
(32:06):
identify with that could help me betternavigate it because I was treading such
uncharted territory for a very long time.
And it turned out that I had this superrare thing that's only supposed to happen
to cancer patients and all of that.
So whenever you're navigating a disabilitythat is rare, and rare enough to where,
(32:29):
I make a joke about this sometimes,where it's actually a true story.
The Mayo Clinic took pictures and videosof the inside of my legs
during my surgery to use for their medicalresearch because of the
disease or the disorder that I'mnavigating is totally new
territory for post-COVID patients.
So I get to be part of research. Yay!
(32:49):
But just working towards a space where wecould have an open dialog about this,
because something I was mentioning,we were talking about before the podcast
started is I had to start using mobilityaids, and I was so ashamed of it.
I was so incredibly ashamed of needingto use a rollator, needing to use a cane
to get from point A to point B becauseof the way people looked at me.
(33:12):
People look at me funny because I don't look
like the "person," whatever that person
is supposed to look like using a rollator.
I don't look like that personthat the general stereotype things.
Whenever people see someonewith a rollator, they typically imagine,
stereotypically, an olderindividual needing to use it.
(33:35):
I just didn't fit that bill.
That confused a lot of people.
People were quite judgmental.
People even said some things under theirbreath, to my face, all of the above.
It made me very ashamed.
If you take a very close look at some pastpictures of me, you'll see canes
and rollators hiding in the backgrounds
(33:56):
of my pictures because I was afraid to showpeople that this is something
that helps me to live my life better.
A lot of people tend to viewmobility aids as a hindrance.
Like, Oh, I'm so sorry, you need that.
It's like, No, I'm so glad that I can usethis because now I can walk farther
or I can go and enjoy this thing.
(34:17):
I think just opening up that dialogand trying to start to move past a place
where we can talk about the issuesand challenges that ableism presents on society
and presents on who we are as artists, because
there's definitely not enough representation there.
If my commission can do that,that would bring me so much joy.
[Diane:] When will that be performed?
(34:39):
[Alexia:] Oh, goodness.
Hopefully, looking at the endof 2025, early 2026.
[Diane:] Okay, good.
[Alexia:] Yeah. So stay tuned.
[Diane:] Speaking of community, we are both partof a community of professional musicians
with disabilities, RAMPD.
When did you discover RAMPD and
(35:02):
what made you apply and collaborate
with this organization?
[Alexia:] I love RAMPD.
When did I find them?
I think it was towards the...
It was definitely after my surgery.
I think that's when I wastrying to seek a community.
(35:24):
I started following a lot of disabilityadvocates on Instagram because I just
wanted to find a senseof comfort in whatever I was navigating
that I wasn't the onlyperson dealing with it.
But there was always that disconnect of, well,
all of these disability advocates, they are amazing.
And they're very open and talking aboutwhenever they have to deal with ableism
(35:48):
and things like that or just dealingwith a new symptom or
dealing with a new doctor.
But what I kept falling short on was the lack of,
Well, none of these disability advocates are artists.
And I want to findthat connection with someone.
So I think it was -I was Google searching "disabled artist"
or something like that, and RAMPDpopped up on my thing,
(36:10):
and I made myself a profile and I was like, you know what?
This seems like a really cool thing.
And I think is his name Alex?
Is he the operationsofficer or coordinator?
[Diane:] Arthur.
[Alexia:] Arthur! Thank you.
Sorry, Arthur, if you're listening.
Arthur reached out to me and said, Hey,I would love to chat with you,
have a conversation with you.
And he was so awesome to talk to.
(36:32):
Definitely made me feel like I belonged,gave me a sense of belonging,
talked to me about everything RAMPD wasdoing, and talked to me about why
they believe it was important.
I found a sense of community.
And ever since joining that,I got to meet you and some other composers
that I started collaborating with.
(36:53):
So there's this one composerthat I started collaborating with.
I believe they live somewhere in Europe,or maybe it was the UK,
if I remember correctly,and just doing collaborations on that.
So it's just it's such a great way to meetnew musicians and artists and just
having something to connect over.
Again, finding your community isincredibly difficult at its best,
(37:16):
and I don't think we are at its best whenit comes to a disabled artist community.
I mean, it was really difficultto try to find something.
And then once I found RAMPD, I was like,Okay, I think I found a community
that I could really relate to.
[Diane:] This is a good segue to my next question,which is about the representation
of disability in disabilityculture and why it is important.
(37:39):
You already replied a little bit to thisquestion, but what is it for you to work
in an environment that promotesaccessibility in the arts
and in disability culture?
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
This is something I think about quitea bit, but thinking about this question
in specifics, it definitelycaused me to do some deep diving
(38:01):
of reflection upon myselfon what it means to me.
With the arts, accessibility in the arts,I think, is more about
developing accessible - the blue handicapsign and ramps and closed captions
and having an ASL interpreter.
I think it means more than that.
I think it's about creating systems,expectations,
(38:24):
changing stereotypes and that makesparticipation possible for everyone,
from students to performersto administrators, regardless of ability.
Disability culture, I think, is really...
It's funny because when I first startednavigating this disability, again,
I think a lot of the same emotionsthat people deal with is feeling shame
(38:45):
and all of those kinds of things.
But disability culture should really beabout embracing your creativity,
adaptability, and deep insight that comesfrom navigating the world differently.
It definitely causes you to seethe world a little differently.
It's also not about being forcedto separate my identity either.
I'm a disabled person,I'm an artist, I'm both.
(39:06):
It's all within myself, right?
I think my lived experiences actually
helps to level up my teaching ability,
my performance ability,my leadership ability, because I look
at life through a different lens now.
When we build art spaces where disabilityis recognized as a valuable perspective,
not a deficit, because I think that'ssomething that folks are still
(39:29):
having a tough time navigating.
We can open the door to such a muchmore creative and vibrant ecosystem.
Something that RAMPD,which I'm sure you already know about
talking about literally creating that rampat the Grammys, so that way performers,
regardless of ability of walking upand down the stairs, can go on the stage
(39:51):
at the same capacity as everyone else.
Things that you didn't even realize wereneeded until you needed
to have that access.
I think those kinds of things arewhat we need to conversate more about.
[Diane:] Definitely.
[Laughs.]
[Alexia:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] I have a last question, which is aboutpeople who might have counted in your
(40:16):
career or have showed you somepaths that you are right now using.
If you had to think of someonewho motivated or counted in this
path of yours, who would it be and why?
[Alexia:] Oh, goodness. There's so many people!
(40:39):
I know this sounds a little cliché orcheesy, but I'm going to have to give
a quick shout out to my husband,Sean McLean.
He is a full-time percussionist,so he's a musician as well,
so he understands the ins outs of themusic community and everything like that.
And he has been with me every single stepof the way, whether it was taking me
(41:03):
to doctor's appointments or helpingme to figure out how to better advocate
for myself or helping me to figure outwhat career pathway
is the right fit for me.
I think your significant other,your life partner,
knows you better than yourself sometimes.
So I'm very grateful for his supportbecause a lot of what he and I have done
(41:24):
together, I think is a testament to that and that
support, because when you navigate newchallenges in your life, you need someone
to have that immediate support towards.
Shifting on to a more specific artist,a disabled artist,
I think I have to say Lachi.
Lachi, excuse me.
(41:45):
She, if you don't know her,she is the founder of RAMPD.
Diane and I keep talking about RAMPD,and RAMPD is Recording Artists and Music
Professionals with Disabilities.She was the founder.
While I never really have spoken with her directly,
the minute I discovered who she was,I felt instantly inspired and instantly
like, Oh, my gosh,there is a space for us.
(42:07):
There is a space for disabled artiststo thrive, not just exist, but thrive.
She is a powerhouse.Oh, my goodness.
She is a musician, disability advocate.
Her visibility and leadership, I think,not only opened doors,
but shifted the conversation around accessibility
and representation in the music industry.
Seeing someoneso unapologetically herself,
(42:33):
leading with disability pride whileleading systematic change, oh, my gosh.
It's inspired me and made me realize,not only is there room for us,
but make room for us, please.Here we are.
Just having that confidence in ourselvesof who we are that we don't have
to compromise our authenticityin our space to create an impact.
(42:53):
I'm really grateful for her work in that.
Even though I've never have personally hada conversation with her, I've seen her
do talks and performances and stuff.
It's inspiring.
It's breathtaking, honestly,to see the work that she does.
[Diane:] Well, the story thatlaunched RAMPD is that...
(43:15):
I know her from before RAMPD.
[Alexia:] Oh, my goodness.
[Diane:] When she started talking aboutconversations with the Grammy Awards,
about accessibility and inclusion.
Then she realized - she put some peopletogether, and she's the cofounder,
actually, because Gaelynn Lea was also in
(43:37):
that pack that founded RAMPD
at the very beginning. They both realized that when people wanted
to meet artists with disabilities,they didn't know where to go.
As you say,because of the lack of representation,
and they were talking about it very well,we couldn't find anything.
(43:57):
They did a talk for the Grammysor for the Recording Academy.
At the end, the person says,Oh, yeah, sure.
We are going to contact you back,and then we continue the conversation.
Who is we?
I mean, there is this musician,this musician, this musician.
There is no we.
We don't have an ensemble.
(44:19):
We don't have an association.
We don't have a coalition.
We should create that.
They were both very,very excited about the fact that we needed
to create that,and that's when it started RAMPD.
She's always been very verbal and...
and here present in the room.
When she's present in the room,she is not unnoticed.
(44:43):
Everybody's turning the eyes towardher direction, and then she glows.
I mean, really like her cane.
She uses a glow cane. That's exactly it.
[Alexia:] I saw that. That is amazing.
[Diane:] It matches her personality, really.
So, yeah, she's amazing.
[Alexia:] Yeah, she's really wonderful.
(45:03):
I'm very grateful for how authentic she isabout herself because I think authenticity
is something that musicianssometimes struggle with.
I feel like a lot of times when we tryto represent ourselves outwardly,
whether it's online or in a presentationor even in a conversation like this,
I feel like a lot of times we try to acthow we think we should act instead of just
(45:27):
being the best versions of ourselves.
[Diane:] Yeah, we should be the best version of ourselves.
[Alexia:] We are all different and important,and we all have something to contribute.
There's no need for all of us to try to act like the same
entity that we think we need to be.
The world is constantly changing.
(45:48):
I think disability has changed the way Imove through the world,
but I think it's also deepenedmy commitment to inclusion and given me
new tools for connection and resilience.
I want to continue to build those communities
where people can feel seenand not in spite of their differences,
but because of them.
That's why, going back to Lachi, it'samazing to see the work that she does.
(46:10):
When it's something as simplistic as, Hey,check out this amazing outfit that I'm
wearing at this awards ceremony.
I don't remember what she posted recently, what she was at, but
I was like, Oh, my gosh, that dress, everything just from head to toe, just amazing.
Like you said, when she walks in a room,everyone looks, she's there.
(46:33):
Everyone knows she's there.
[Diane:] You know, this kind of advocacy for musicians with disabilities
today, it's really important,especially now.
Especially now that we live in thatworld where we look at each other
and say, How did that happen?
(46:53):
[Alexia:] Yeah. And we look at such a digital world now that we might as well just
take this and run with it.
Start to put onto paper,literally and figuratively,
that this is the pathway we want to go in.
[Diane:] Well, thank you so much for this lovely conversation.
It was really interesting.
(47:14):
[Alexia:] Thank you.
[Diane:] Yeah, I think we will see each otherat another RAMPD event sometimes.
[Alexia:] Absolutely.Many, many coming forward.
But thank you so much for having me.
I'm really grateful for this spaceto share my journey as all of the above,
musician, educator, advocate,navigating a disability.
(47:36):
If I could leave a quick message to thoselistening is that we don't have to
separate our artistry from our advocacy.They can coexist.
They could feed on each other and
can inherently make our work much more powerful.
I'm excited to keep learningand collaborating and pushing towards
(47:56):
a better version of myself,whatever that looks like,
and I hope that others can do the same.
Again, thank you so muchfor having me, Diane.
It was a pleasure.
[Diane:] Thank you so much, and see you soon.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
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