May 30, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, ArtsAbly is in conversation with David Bobier, a Canadian media artist, founder of VibraFusionLab in Hamilton, Ontario, in Canada.
During the interview, David Bobier mentions a certain number of resources that are listed on ArtsAbly’s website, in the Blog section.Access David Bobier’s resources
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
♪ Opening theme music ♪
[Diane:] Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:24):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of theseconversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:54):
[Diane:] Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith David Bobier,
a Canadian media artist,founder of VibraFusionLab
in Hamilton, Ontario, in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby David Bobier during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section.
[Diane:] Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
(01:17):
My name is Diane Kolin,and today I have a special guest,
and I am in a special place.
I am with David Bobier,and I am in this lab,
and he's going to explain us
where we are exactly. Welcome, David.
[David:] Thank you.
Nice to meet.Nice to have you here.
[Diane:] Yes. Thank you for welcoming me here. I really appreciate.
(01:38):
[David:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] So this is a fantastic place.
How did your interest for music
and also technology start?
[David:] Well, so I guess
I will go back to my childhood
and my family, generations actually of musicians.
(02:02):
I grew up in a rural community,
so I guess you would sort of say old country.
But my dad sang, had a beautiful voice,
and he yodled
and played multiple instruments.
(02:23):
My grandfather and my great uncle also
were violinists, and my other uncle is
violinist, so I was surrounded by music,
but I didn't didn't have the musical gene.
It just didn't happen.
I took some training lessons in piano andguitar, but it just didn't happen.
(02:49):
So that was the early influence, I think.
So I guess I could say maybe frustrated
musician, but practicing artist.
And I consider what I dothrough my own work and through
VibraFusionLab is some manifestationof that experience of sound.
(03:14):
I have a hearing loss as well.
Experienced it, I guess, really from birth,but never really
thought of it as any detriment.
But the I think, around...
(03:34):
My early work was really, it had a lot to do with sound, texture,
source, where the sound came from.
So I was doing a lot of...
I got a job actually teachingat Mount Allison University
back in the late '80s and early '90s.
(03:57):
And I started then bridging the idea
around technology and music and art.
And Mount Allison University is in a small community, but it's known -
Sackville, New Brunswick, but it's known, the history,
(04:20):
it was manufacturing, and that was enterprising faucet.
They were makers of furnaces andall kinds of appliances.
So with that influence,
I think in the community or in the history
(04:40):
of the community, I started working with
familiar objects that made sound,
but then playing aroundwith that recorded sound.
And so I was working with differenthousehold objects that created sound
(05:01):
and turning them into installations.
And I was also interestedin how I could engage the audience.
And so there was always someaspect of entering the work
and actually allowing
the viewer to become a participant in some
(05:23):
way or another, whether it was activatingthe work or changing sound
effects, that sort of thing.
And then during that period of time,we adopted two deaf children.
And they were aged 2 and 10 months.
(05:43):
And so the whole period of raising them,
sound became
an issue, something that wasmore prevalent than I think it was before.
How are they experiencing sound?
(06:04):
How are they reacting to sound in a spaceand watching and observing, and became,
through them, became actively involved in the deaf community.
And in the '90s, I actuallycreated an exhibition
(06:26):
that was about that experience.
And it was called...
What was it called?
Oh, shoot, I forget.
Anyway, I'll get back to it.
But it was an exhibition of a numberof installations
that looked at the history of deafculture, it looked at language,
(06:50):
and it incorporated all this informationinto the installations,
and it traveled around Ontario.
I think it was probably,from what I sense now, one of the first
exhibitions that really explored that.
There was a catalogue for that as well.
(07:12):
So I think the combination of all of that
took me in the direction of, as an artist,
obviously incorporating sound.
But at the same time, this would be
(07:32):
2010, I think, around that period of time,
Ryerson University, which is now called Toronto Metropolitan University, as you know.
There's a department there that's nowcalled Inclusive Media and Design Center.
And back then, they wereworking on a project to develop a
(07:55):
theater chair for the deaf.
So there was like...
I think they worked on that forprobably four or five years.
And I heard of it,and they were doing a public performance
or public display of thiswork in a bar,
(08:15):
Clinton Bar, it's called, in Toronto.
So I heard about it, took the kids,And they tried out
and met some people there.
Anyway, I proposed to Deb Fels,
who was the leader of that project,
(08:40):
that the work that they were doing needed
to be explored in a more public setting.
And this is sort of what you'd mentioned this earlier about
academic research needs to have more legs than
(09:01):
within the confinesof the university.
So I worked with him for a bit,and then I suggested that we start doing
some workshops outside of the university,and I coordinated those.
And then wecollaborated on a SSHRC grant
(09:24):
to establish VibraFusionLab,
but outside of the university.
And so we were successful.
We set up the first VibraFusionLab
in London, Ontario, in 2012,
(09:44):
and operated there for about three years.
And during that period of time,it just became a drop-in
center for musicians, for artists,
for underground bands.
It became this placewhere people could come together
(10:08):
and enjoy music and experience.
The technology that had been developed
at Ryerson essentially got transportedinto VibraFusionLab.
We had all thesechairs and all kinds of vibrating stuff.
That's when I first actually met Jesse.
(10:31):
I invited Jesse to come.
Jesse Stewart.That was remarkable.
People like Gordon Monahan, who's an international sound artist,
Marla Hlady from Toronto.
I just wanted to connect with people,so I just contacted them and said,
(10:52):
would you want to come?
I was able to fund everything,so pay them to be there.
That last for three years.
[Diane:] Wow!
So when did you move here in Hamilton?
[David:] Yeah, so.
We actually moved to Hamilton in,what's it, 2025.
(11:15):
I think in 2023.
We had been doing some projects.
We'd partnered on some projects withCentre 3, which is an art
center here in Hamilton.
We'd already been working on a few
projects together, and they located a
(11:38):
factory building that would had been renovated.
And so the proposal was that they wouldmove into that space and we would move
into that space, which ishere in Hamilton.
We did that and got set up.
And within a year, thebuilding was up for sale.
(12:00):
So that ended that whole...
And it was amazing.
It was like 5,000 square foot space,all open windows, everything.
Anyway, it was great.But then...
So we then moved here in2024 into this space.
[Diane:] Okay.
(12:20):
And can you talk a bit about the typeof projects you're leading when you
are getting together with artists?
[David:] Yeah.
Gosh, it varies quitea lot from one artist to another.
So we started offeringresidencies here.
(12:42):
Last fall, we had two sets of residencies.
But a lot of projectsstart from people coming to us.
I'm just trying to think.
We worked with a deaf performance artist in Edmonton.
He was working on a project, a performance piece
(13:07):
that was called Carbon Movements.
And it was exploring
or addressing the climate situation.
But for that project, we built a raised
stage and motorized the stage underneath.
(13:27):
And the stage was covered withabout two inches of black rice.
And this was a full-size stage.
So the motors would be activated and the black rice would move
based on the vibration of the motors.
That was one project that came to us.
Another one is a double leg amputee
(13:52):
Circus aerialist, Erin Ball.
Who you -
Erin, I think everyone knows about Erin,and her partner, Maxime Beauregard.
We've done two workshopswith them already.
And with them, we're exploring their
(14:12):
movement in the air and tracking it
and allowing that motion, that movement,to either create sound or activate sound.
But the direction we're going with that is
that we're able to monitor her heartbeat,
(14:33):
and so that we're using the heartbeat asa sound element for the piece.
And as she moves, the movement changes,but also the heartbeat
changes itself as she moves.
So we're not quite sure where that's goingto end up, but that's
the direction that's going.
(14:55):
We just started - Travis Knights,who is a professional tap dancer,
was just here a few days ago,and we're going to be working
with him and another tap dancer.
And the intention there is to place
contact mics or piezos under the metal part
(15:20):
next to the sole of the shoeso that their tap
and their movement of their foot willactivate or change the sound that we're
recording from the boardthat they're tapping on.
Yeah, that's one.
We worked with a burlesque group of
(15:46):
intellectually delayed performers in Calgary.
Was...
Never worked in burlesque before,
but just amazing creation and art
form happening in that area of the arts.
(16:07):
Yeah, and also I thinkthe other part that we're...
So VibraFusionLab is built
around two foundations.
One is to supportdeaf and disabled artists
in the creation of their workthrough whatever technology we can
(16:30):
create for them or develop for them.
And the other is to create access to art
for audiences from the deaf and disability arts community.
Those have been two very standardframeworks for VibraFusionLab
and still are, I would say.
We do a lot ofsetting up vibro tactile systems
(16:56):
in theater spaces all across Canada,
from Vancouver all the way out to Halifax.
We've done that.
And we can set up -We have pillows, vibro-tactile pillows.
We have Woojer belts, which are a
commercial product that we use,
(17:17):
and we can set up upwards of 100systems in a space for the audience.
[Diane:] I have a related question.
You already replied a bit,but I was wondering what it meant for you
to work in an environment where you improve, increase,
(17:39):
make a better accessto the arts in the disability community
and in disability culture in general?
[David:] Mmm... Yeah. So.
What does it mean to me?
Gosh, it's thrilling, but it'shard to encapsulate what it...
(18:03):
It depends, too, on - every individual that we work with
comes with certain conditions,
certain needs, but also certain ideas.
To just be an observer in all of that,
(18:25):
and as an observer, to watch
that process of creation,what happens from the point of saying,
well, we have this for you, thesevarious things in the space that you can
work with, and how theytransform that to make it their own.
(18:52):
I think that's... Yeah, I think that's it.
You know, to...
For them to find that sort of direction
and to be able to observethat and to be able to support it.
I often... When I talk about Vibrofusion Lab or myself,
(19:13):
I often talk about we're facilitators.
We're just here to guide and offer
and then support and however we can.
And I'm deeply committed to supporting
the artist for everything.
(19:34):
I always try to make sure we...
We obviously pay well for artist fees,but accommodation, per diem, travel.
I really don't want the artist to havethe cost to be here,
That it costs them something to be here.
(19:56):
However we can manage that, it's true.
We don't have operating funding.
We don't function on operating funding.
We work from project to project,but also people come with projects.
It's a little bit tenuous at times, but
(20:18):
we're fortunate to be able to still be doingwhat we're doing and to have a space
And to say that, yeah, we have...
It's just a place to play, essentially.
[Diane:] I have a last questionfor you before, maybe we can explore
(20:40):
some of the elements we have in the room.
I was wondering if during your career,
you met people who really counted for you or
really transformedthe way you were seeing.
Despite family, I know that you have two sons
who are deaf, but in the disability
(21:01):
culture community, did you meet peoplewho really marked you in your career?
And you can name morethan one if you want.
Who are they and why?
I worked with an artist,
a deaf dancer, choreographer from the UK
(21:25):
and I won't say it was... not totally amicable,
but I would say influential
in terms of
the kind of project that we worked on and the access
it gave me to othervenues, other people.
(21:51):
And so her name is Chisato Minamimura,
and she was working on a project called Scored in Silence.
She's Japanese, and as I said, deaf,
but she's in the UK.She lives in London, UK.
And the project was
(22:13):
to investigate the experience
of deaf people during the bombingsof Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Very profoundly difficult project.
But she spent time in Japan and actuallylocated some deaf survivors.
(22:36):
So she interviewed them.
There was also some earlier footage frominterviews that she was able to obtain.
But one of the things that she discovered was that,
and at that period of time,it wasn't unusual for
deaf people or people with disabilitiesto be kept in a room,
(22:58):
essentially, or institutionalized.
So the truth of the matter was that deaf people
didn't even know there was a war going on.
They were so isolatedfrom the world around them.
And when the bombings happened,the first - the instant that happened,
it was this amazing experience for them.
(23:22):
They didn't know what it was, but
deeply affected, obviously, some were injured, some were...
One fellow talks about how he's
thrown across a space.
But anyway, so she dida whole piece around that.
And it toured, we had it here inToronto and Hamilton.
(23:49):
I don't know if youhad a chance to see it.
[Diane:] Yes.
[David:] You did? Okay.
So you know exactlywhat I'm talking about.
But anyway. Also,it toured in the UK, too.
And then it ended upat the Edinburgh Festival.
So that experience of the touring
was really interesting to me because I'm always...
Theater has always intrigued me.
(24:11):
What happens in the backgroundreally intrigues me.
And so that was interesting.
But I would say Jesse Stewartin a very different way.
Just his personality,
his calmness, his peacefulness,
(24:36):
his amazing, amazing ability.
And... Gosh, so many.
Jenelle Rouse, I think, for sure.
A very influential close friend.
I think a lot of people that still have
(24:58):
influenced me are close friends.
And it's hard to sort of
come up with one or two people.
I think that everybody I worked with
influences me and drives me forward,
(25:20):
keeps my passion going for what I'm doing,and the surprise of what's coming next,
because we never know.
And the thrill of...
I always say I createthe projects and create the problems,
and Jim is here to fix them.
(25:41):
So Jim, I should mention, Jim Ruxton is a media artist
and an electronics engineer, lives here in Hamilton.
And he came on board VibraFusionLab about six or seven years ago
and has been reallythe problem solver, I think.
(26:01):
I didn't grow up withthat tech background.
So I think the partnership has really
moved forward, moved VibraFusionLab
forward in leaps and bounds in termsof how we can respond to people
with what their objectives or goals
(26:26):
or ideas are when they come to us.
I would say Jim as well,a key person in terms of where we are.
[Diane:] Thank you.
I'm just looking around,and there are so many ways
of exploring what vibration in sound isin this room where we are, in this lab.
(26:50):
I was wondering if you could presentsome of the elements that are here,
and we are going to move to thedifferent places where they are.
[David:] Sure. Yeah.
♪ Music is played from a computer in the background ♪
[Diane:] Okay, so what are we looking at right now?
(27:13):
[David:] Okay, so what we're going to belooking at is a couple of...
I just mentioned the vibro-tactile belt,but there's a couple of
devices that we use quite commonly,
in particular in theater situations.
This is what's called the Woojer,we call it a belt.
(27:36):
It's also called a strap.
It's obviously madeby a company called Woojer.
And these kinds of companies,there's Subpac, Woojer,
there's other smaller ones.
But these products aredesigned primarily for gaming.
But we found that the Woojer belt,
(27:59):
because it's easy to travel,
easy to ship around,because we do, as I say, installations
anywhere that we get called, and it's a...
It plugs directly into a live audio system
(28:20):
or you can have live recording
going directly into it.
So the idea is that there's a transducerinside which vibrates to the sound that's...
You don't hear the sound from the belt,but the vibration is there.
You can adjust it.
(28:44):
Yeah, so in the lab we have somewhere between 110 and 120
of these that can be installed in a theater.
We have a cabling systemthat we've designed, actually,
Jim Ruxton designed, that can transmit
(29:09):
the audio signal to that many belts.
We also have a...
Also have a vibrotactile pillow here.
Inside is, again, a transducer.
So a transducer is...
(29:31):
I should have had one here.
But it's designedmuch the same way as the speaker is,
but it's designed to emphasizevibration of sound.
So inside of the pillow is a transducer,
and it's wired to just a small mini app here,
(29:54):
which is connected to my computer.
And I'm just going to play something from, I think,
an Ethiopian band called Tinariwen.
♪ Singers singing a traditional song with an electric guitar playing ♪
(30:14):
So with the pillows,there is sound and vibration.
I think you can hear the sound coming out of it now.
But these are designed...
They're soft, so they're easy to hold.
They're very comfortable to hold.
(30:37):
I really put a lot of emphasis ondeveloping the pillow idea during COVID.
And we also, at that time,we're working on a handheld system.
The idea being that we want to reducecosts of this kind of technology
so that people could actually purchasethem for their own personal use.
(31:01):
And something like this
or any of these systems
can be hooked up to your entertainment system at home.
So you could be watching a movieand holding one of these pillows or
listening to your favorite albumand holding one of the pillows.
But pushing the idea of the pillow forward,
(31:22):
we now have a wireless vibrotactile pillow.
So we're able to eliminate
the cables, which,
particularly if we're working with live theater and people are moving around,
cabling becomes quite a
(31:43):
difficult thing for people to maneuver.
And so these you just...
The Bluetooth is a fairly recent
development in Bluetooth technology.
And so these you can just connectto your iPhone or your computer,
(32:06):
and you're free to move around.
These are also really nice to hold.
I've had people put them at their back.
I've had people put them under their feet.
So it's really flexible in termsof how you want to interact with them.
(32:29):
I'll show you here.
Behind me we have a vibrotactile floor.
We've been working...
I first designeda vibro-tactile floor
for Tangled Art Gallery in Toronto,probably five, six years ago now,
(32:50):
for an artist that wasshowing there, Deirdre Logue.
And I built four sections of floor this size,
and they were solid.
This is in four components,but those were solid sections.
She's a video artist, so the monitors
(33:12):
were mounted on the wall low.
Then the sound, rather than coming outof a speaker or something,
was channeled into the floor.
So the sound videos was coming outof the floor, which was really...
What happened was it really changed theexperience of sound within the space.
It really kind of filled the roomwith a different sound quality.
(33:38):
[Diane:] People could walk on the floor?
[David:] Yeah, they were all ramped.
The idea is that whenever we work with anyof our technology,
we try to think about access.
From as many perspectives as possible.
So I ramped them all
(34:00):
so wheelchair users could experience them
on the floor, could experience the sound on the floor,
But people would comein and sit on them or lie down,
just however they wanted or could best experience
that quality of vibration.
(34:22):
So now we're starting to work withseparating sound into the floor.
In the case of this one,we can have four different sounds going
into the floor, or we can control it
so that sound will move in a circular pattern
or however, whateverdirection you want the sound to move.
(34:46):
And this is a component that then could bereproduced into multiples within a room.
So a whole room could actuallybecome a vibro-tactile floor space.
I guess we can look at the wall.
[Diane:] Yeah.
[David:] Okay. We've moved over to another installation
(35:08):
that we call Haptic Voices,
which is, we also refer to itas the vibro-tactile wall.
The idea came out of, again,
out of the period of COVID when...
First of all, there was Canada Council,Ontario Arts Council,
(35:30):
we were able to receive funding to
support artists during COVID.
We wanted to develop something that
connected, the idea of connection.
So Haptic Voices is a wall, a vibrotactile wall,
(35:54):
that's made up of 10 transducers.
So each of these is a transducer.
The design also allows
for the transducers to move independently,
sideways, and these can move up and down
so to adjust to height,
(36:17):
to body type, as as much as possible.
And also, they're mounted on rubber bands sothat as you lean against it,
it tends to sort of form to the body.
So If I were to lean against it,
(36:38):
the idea is to adjust it to your shoulder area,
lower back, the thigh and the caps.
Then just lean back.
(37:00):
You can put your full body back into it,and it's very strong.
And then we have an iPad
that's programmed so that you can control
the sound and vibration.
(37:21):
We've now commissioned, I think,about five artists or musicians to
create work for the wall.
The other feature is that,
again, back to the idea of connecting,
was to set up a website where people could
(37:46):
go on to their website or go on to their laptop,
open up the websiteand voice into their laptop, for instance,
and they're anywhere in the world,and their voice would be
transmitted to the wall, and you'd feel their voice.
And we'd set up a camera
(38:09):
so that through the website,
the person creating the sound could see the
reaction of the person leaning against the wall.
It also has an intensity adjustment.
Right now, we have threecompositions on this control.
(38:33):
We've got a piece by John Gzowski,a Toronto-based composer.
We have a piece that Jim Ruxton created himself,
and he actually created while hewas leaning against the wall,
which is the ultimate experience, I guess,
(38:54):
in terms of your instantaneous feedback.
And then Ailís Ní Ríain is a deaf composer
from - Irish composer living in the UK.
And I'll just demonstrate.
♪ Saxophone music playing for a few seconds, then David speaks over the music ♪
(39:18):
[David:] That's moving independentlythrough 10 channels on the wall.
So if you lean against it,
you're getting 10 points of sensation,
vibrotactile sensation.
(39:43):
You can't anticipate where it's coming
unless you know the piece really well,
which transducer is coming into.
♪ David stops the music ♪
(40:04):
So that gives you an idea of...
We could have 10 musicians or 10 instrumentalists
playing live and channel them independently
into each of the transducers.
(40:25):
So I think it has a lot of possibilities yet.
I think I mentioned earlier,one of the things we're looking at
in terms of this conceptis to condense it
so that it was something that could betransported and easily placed
(40:46):
in the back of a wheelchairor a chair for that matter.
We recognize that even though we'veconsidered accessibility with this,
it's still inaccessible for some people.
We're very conscious of that and alwaystrying to and adapt and figure out
how we can make it more available.
(41:13):
[Diane:] Well, thank you so much for welcoming me in that amazing space.
So are you working on specificprojects right now?
[David:] Yeah. Well, I guess I think firstup is a trip to New York City.
(41:33):
We're working with the Parsons School of Design
there, and their year-endfashion show is happening.
so I'm going.
We've already shippedall the stuff over there.
We're setting up a system of 25vibro tactile belts for the audience
(41:55):
to get an added
sensory experience of the fashion show.
That's going to be a strange time to go to New York, but it's going to be
a really interesting thing.
Gosh.
(42:16):
Well, I mentioned Erin Ball.
We're continuing to work with Erin Ball.
We're working, again,an ongoing project with
Vanessa Dion Fletcher, who'sa Lenape artist in Toronto.
She's working on an exhibition thatwould be happening at
(42:39):
what was the Art Gallery of Windsor.
It's now called Art Windsor-Essex.
There's lots more happening.
I think just referring back to what I hadsaid earlier around some of the projects
that tend to be ongoing.
(43:00):
It's rare that we have - everythinggets wrapped up in one session.
So typically,what happens in one leads to another.
And so, yeah, many of ourprojects last over multiple years.
[Diane:] Well, thank you again.
(43:21):
And I'm sure we will see eachother in one project or another.
[David:] Yeah, definitely have a feeling we will,
now that I have a better sense of what your
illustriousness is all about.
It seems to be fascinating.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's really a lot ofconnections with
(43:44):
what you're doing and would love to.
[Diane:] Well, thank you.
[David:] Okay. Thank you very much.
My pleasure.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
♪ Opening theme music ♪
[Diane:] Hello, and welcome to thisepisode of ArtsAbly in Conversation.
My name is Diane Kolin.
This series presents artists, academics,and project leaders who dedicate their
(00:24):
time and energy to a better accessibilityfor people with disabilities in the arts.
You can find more of theseconversations on our website, artsably.com,
which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.
♪ Theme music ♪
(00:54):
[Diane:] Today, ArtsAbly is in conversationwith David Bobier,
a Canadian media artist,founder of VibraFusionLab
in Hamilton, Ontario, in Canada.
You can find the resources mentionedby David Bobier during this episode
on ArtsAbly's website, in the blog section.
[Diane:] Welcome to this new episodeof ArtsAbly in Conversation.
(01:17):
My name is Diane Kolin,and today I have a special guest,
and I am in a special place.
I am with David Bobier,and I am in this lab,
and he's going to explain us
where we are exactly. Welcome, David.
[David:] Thank you.
Nice to meet.Nice to have you here.
[Diane:] Yes. Thank you for welcoming me here. I really appreciate.
(01:38):
[David:] Absolutely.
[Diane:] So this is a fantastic place.
How did your interest for music
and also technology start?
[David:] Well, so I guess
I will go back to my childhood
and my family, generations actually of musicians.
(02:02):
I grew up in a rural community,
so I guess you would sort of say old country.
But my dad sang, had a beautiful voice,
and he yodled
and played multiple instruments.
(02:23):
My grandfather and my great uncle also
were violinists, and my other uncle is
violinist, so I was surrounded by music,
but I didn't didn't have the musical gene.
It just didn't happen.
I took some training lessons in piano andguitar, but it just didn't happen.
(02:49):
So that was the early influence, I think.
So I guess I could say maybe frustrated
musician, but practicing artist.
And I consider what I dothrough my own work and through
VibraFusionLab is some manifestationof that experience of sound.
(03:14):
I have a hearing loss as well.
Experienced it, I guess, really from birth,but never really
thought of it as any detriment.
But the I think, around...
(03:34):
My early work was really, it had a lot to do with sound, texture,
source, where the sound came from.
So I was doing a lot of...
I got a job actually teachingat Mount Allison University
back in the late '80s and early '90s.
(03:57):
And I started then bridging the idea
around technology and music and art.
And Mount Allison University is in a small community, but it's known -
Sackville, New Brunswick, but it's known, the history,
(04:20):
it was manufacturing, and that was enterprising faucet.
They were makers of furnaces andall kinds of appliances.
So with that influence,
I think in the community or in the history
(04:40):
of the community, I started working with
familiar objects that made sound,
but then playing aroundwith that recorded sound.
And so I was working with differenthousehold objects that created sound
(05:01):
and turning them into installations.
And I was also interestedin how I could engage the audience.
And so there was always someaspect of entering the work
and actually allowing
the viewer to become a participant in some
(05:23):
way or another, whether it was activatingthe work or changing sound
effects, that sort of thing.
And then during that period of time,we adopted two deaf children.
And they were aged 2 and 10 months.
(05:43):
And so the whole period of raising them,
sound became
an issue, something that wasmore prevalent than I think it was before.
How are they experiencing sound?
(06:04):
How are they reacting to sound in a spaceand watching and observing, and became,
through them, became actively involved in the deaf community.
And in the '90s, I actuallycreated an exhibition
(06:26):
that was about that experience.
And it was called...
What was it called?
Oh, shoot, I forget.
Anyway, I'll get back to it.
But it was an exhibition of a numberof installations
that looked at the history of deafculture, it looked at language,
(06:50):
and it incorporated all this informationinto the installations,
and it traveled around Ontario.
I think it was probably,from what I sense now, one of the first
exhibitions that really explored that.
There was a catalogue for that as well.
(07:12):
So I think the combination of all of that
took me in the direction of, as an artist,
obviously incorporating sound.
But at the same time, this would be
(07:32):
2010, I think, around that period of time,
Ryerson University, which is now called Toronto Metropolitan University, as you know.
There's a department there that's nowcalled Inclusive Media and Design Center.
And back then, they wereworking on a project to develop a
(07:55):
theater chair for the deaf.
So there was like...
I think they worked on that forprobably four or five years.
And I heard of it,and they were doing a public performance
or public display of thiswork in a bar,
(08:15):
Clinton Bar, it's called, in Toronto.
So I heard about it, took the kids,And they tried out
and met some people there.
Anyway, I proposed to Deb Fels,
who was the leader of that project,
(08:40):
that the work that they were doing needed
to be explored in a more public setting.
And this is sort of what you'd mentioned this earlier about
academic research needs to have more legs than
(09:01):
within the confinesof the university.
So I worked with him for a bit,and then I suggested that we start doing
some workshops outside of the university,and I coordinated those.
And then wecollaborated on a SSHRC grant
(09:24):
to establish VibraFusionLab,
but outside of the university.
And so we were successful.
We set up the first VibraFusionLab
in London, Ontario, in 2012,
(09:44):
and operated there for about three years.
And during that period of time,it just became a drop-in
center for musicians, for artists,
for underground bands.
It became this placewhere people could come together
(10:08):
and enjoy music and experience.
The technology that had been developed
at Ryerson essentially got transportedinto VibraFusionLab.
We had all thesechairs and all kinds of vibrating stuff.
That's when I first actually met Jesse.
(10:31):
I invited Jesse to come.
Jesse Stewart.That was remarkable.
People like Gordon Monahan, who's an international sound artist,
Marla Hlady from Toronto.
I just wanted to connect with people,so I just contacted them and said,
(10:52):
would you want to come?
I was able to fund everything,so pay them to be there.
That last for three years.
[Diane:] Wow!
So when did you move here in Hamilton?
[David:] Yeah, so.
We actually moved to Hamilton in,what's it, 2025.
(11:15):
I think in 2023.
We had been doing some projects.
We'd partnered on some projects withCentre 3, which is an art
center here in Hamilton.
We'd already been working on a few
projects together, and they located a
(11:38):
factory building that would had been renovated.
And so the proposal was that they wouldmove into that space and we would move
into that space, which ishere in Hamilton.
We did that and got set up.
And within a year, thebuilding was up for sale.
(12:00):
So that ended that whole...
And it was amazing.
It was like 5,000 square foot space,all open windows, everything.
Anyway, it was great.But then...
So we then moved here in2024 into this space.
[Diane:] Okay.
(12:20):
And can you talk a bit about the typeof projects you're leading when you
are getting together with artists?
[David:] Yeah.
Gosh, it varies quitea lot from one artist to another.
So we started offeringresidencies here.
(12:42):
Last fall, we had two sets of residencies.
But a lot of projectsstart from people coming to us.
I'm just trying to think.
We worked with a deaf performance artist in Edmonton.
He was working on a project, a performance piece
(13:07):
that was called Carbon Movements.
And it was exploring
or addressing the climate situation.
But for that project, we built a raised
stage and motorized the stage underneath.
(13:27):
And the stage was covered withabout two inches of black rice.
And this was a full-size stage.
So the motors would be activated and the black rice would move
based on the vibration of the motors.
That was one project that came to us.
Another one is a double leg amputee
(13:52):
Circus aerialist, Erin Ball.
Who you -
Erin, I think everyone knows about Erin,and her partner, Maxime Beauregard.
We've done two workshopswith them already.
And with them, we're exploring their
(14:12):
movement in the air and tracking it
and allowing that motion, that movement,to either create sound or activate sound.
But the direction we're going with that is
that we're able to monitor her heartbeat,
(14:33):
and so that we're using the heartbeat asa sound element for the piece.
And as she moves, the movement changes,but also the heartbeat
changes itself as she moves.
So we're not quite sure where that's goingto end up, but that's
the direction that's going.
(14:55):
We just started - Travis Knights,who is a professional tap dancer,
was just here a few days ago,and we're going to be working
with him and another tap dancer.
And the intention there is to place
contact mics or piezos under the metal part
(15:20):
next to the sole of the shoeso that their tap
and their movement of their foot willactivate or change the sound that we're
recording from the boardthat they're tapping on.
Yeah, that's one.
We worked with a burlesque group of
(15:46):
intellectually delayed performers in Calgary.
Was...
Never worked in burlesque before,
but just amazing creation and art
form happening in that area of the arts.
(16:07):
Yeah, and also I thinkthe other part that we're...
So VibraFusionLab is built
around two foundations.
One is to supportdeaf and disabled artists
in the creation of their workthrough whatever technology we can
(16:30):
create for them or develop for them.
And the other is to create access to art
for audiences from the deaf and disability arts community.
Those have been two very standardframeworks for VibraFusionLab
and still are, I would say.
We do a lot ofsetting up vibro tactile systems
(16:56):
in theater spaces all across Canada,
from Vancouver all the way out to Halifax.
We've done that.
And we can set up -We have pillows, vibro-tactile pillows.
We have Woojer belts, which are a
commercial product that we use,
(17:17):
and we can set up upwards of 100systems in a space for the audience.
[Diane:] I have a related question.
You already replied a bit,but I was wondering what it meant for you
to work in an environment where you improve, increase,
(17:39):
make a better accessto the arts in the disability community
and in disability culture in general?
[David:] Mmm... Yeah. So.
What does it mean to me?
Gosh, it's thrilling, but it'shard to encapsulate what it...
(18:03):
It depends, too, on - every individual that we work with
comes with certain conditions,
certain needs, but also certain ideas.
To just be an observer in all of that,
(18:25):
and as an observer, to watch
that process of creation,what happens from the point of saying,
well, we have this for you, thesevarious things in the space that you can
work with, and how theytransform that to make it their own.
(18:52):
I think that's... Yeah, I think that's it.
You know, to...
For them to find that sort of direction
and to be able to observethat and to be able to support it.
I often... When I talk about Vibrofusion Lab or myself,
(19:13):
I often talk about we're facilitators.
We're just here to guide and offer
and then support and however we can.
And I'm deeply committed to supporting
the artist for everything.
(19:34):
I always try to make sure we...
We obviously pay well for artist fees,but accommodation, per diem, travel.
I really don't want the artist to havethe cost to be here,
That it costs them something to be here.
(19:56):
However we can manage that, it's true.
We don't have operating funding.
We don't function on operating funding.
We work from project to project,but also people come with projects.
It's a little bit tenuous at times, but
(20:18):
we're fortunate to be able to still be doingwhat we're doing and to have a space
And to say that, yeah, we have...
It's just a place to play, essentially.
[Diane:] I have a last questionfor you before, maybe we can explore
(20:40):
some of the elements we have in the room.
I was wondering if during your career,
you met people who really counted for you or
really transformedthe way you were seeing.
Despite family, I know that you have two sons
who are deaf, but in the disability
(21:01):
culture community, did you meet peoplewho really marked you in your career?
And you can name morethan one if you want.
Who are they and why?
I worked with an artist,
a deaf dancer, choreographer from the UK
(21:25):
and I won't say it was... not totally amicable,
but I would say influential
in terms of
the kind of project that we worked on and the access
it gave me to othervenues, other people.
(21:51):
And so her name is Chisato Minamimura,
and she was working on a project called Scored in Silence.
She's Japanese, and as I said, deaf,
but she's in the UK.She lives in London, UK.
And the project was
(22:13):
to investigate the experience
of deaf people during the bombingsof Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Very profoundly difficult project.
But she spent time in Japan and actuallylocated some deaf survivors.
(22:36):
So she interviewed them.
There was also some earlier footage frominterviews that she was able to obtain.
But one of the things that she discovered was that,
and at that period of time,it wasn't unusual for
deaf people or people with disabilitiesto be kept in a room,
(22:58):
essentially, or institutionalized.
So the truth of the matter was that deaf people
didn't even know there was a war going on.
They were so isolatedfrom the world around them.
And when the bombings happened,the first - the instant that happened,
it was this amazing experience for them.
(23:22):
They didn't know what it was, but
deeply affected, obviously, some were injured, some were...
One fellow talks about how he's
thrown across a space.
But anyway, so she dida whole piece around that.
And it toured, we had it here inToronto and Hamilton.
(23:49):
I don't know if youhad a chance to see it.
[Diane:] Yes.
[David:] You did? Okay.
So you know exactlywhat I'm talking about.
But anyway. Also,it toured in the UK, too.
And then it ended upat the Edinburgh Festival.
So that experience of the touring
was really interesting to me because I'm always...
Theater has always intrigued me.
(24:11):
What happens in the backgroundreally intrigues me.
And so that was interesting.
But I would say Jesse Stewartin a very different way.
Just his personality,
his calmness, his peacefulness,
(24:36):
his amazing, amazing ability.
And... Gosh, so many.
Jenelle Rouse, I think, for sure.
A very influential close friend.
I think a lot of people that still have
(24:58):
influenced me are close friends.
And it's hard to sort of
come up with one or two people.
I think that everybody I worked with
influences me and drives me forward,
(25:20):
keeps my passion going for what I'm doing,and the surprise of what's coming next,
because we never know.
And the thrill of...
I always say I createthe projects and create the problems,
and Jim is here to fix them.
(25:41):
So Jim, I should mention, Jim Ruxton is a media artist
and an electronics engineer, lives here in Hamilton.
And he came on board VibraFusionLab about six or seven years ago
and has been reallythe problem solver, I think.
(26:01):
I didn't grow up withthat tech background.
So I think the partnership has really
moved forward, moved VibraFusionLab
forward in leaps and bounds in termsof how we can respond to people
with what their objectives or goals
(26:26):
or ideas are when they come to us.
I would say Jim as well,a key person in terms of where we are.
[Diane:] Thank you.
I'm just looking around,and there are so many ways
of exploring what vibration in sound isin this room where we are, in this lab.
(26:50):
I was wondering if you could presentsome of the elements that are here,
and we are going to move to thedifferent places where they are.
[David:] Sure. Yeah.
♪ Music is played from a computer in the background ♪
[Diane:] Okay, so what are we looking at right now?
(27:13):
[David:] Okay, so what we're going to belooking at is a couple of...
I just mentioned the vibro-tactile belt,but there's a couple of
devices that we use quite commonly,
in particular in theater situations.
This is what's called the Woojer,we call it a belt.
(27:36):
It's also called a strap.
It's obviously madeby a company called Woojer.
And these kinds of companies,there's Subpac, Woojer,
there's other smaller ones.
But these products aredesigned primarily for gaming.
But we found that the Woojer belt,
(27:59):
because it's easy to travel,
easy to ship around,because we do, as I say, installations
anywhere that we get called, and it's a...
It plugs directly into a live audio system
(28:20):
or you can have live recording
going directly into it.
So the idea is that there's a transducerinside which vibrates to the sound that's...
You don't hear the sound from the belt,but the vibration is there.
You can adjust it.
(28:44):
Yeah, so in the lab we have somewhere between 110 and 120
of these that can be installed in a theater.
We have a cabling systemthat we've designed, actually,
Jim Ruxton designed, that can transmit
(29:09):
the audio signal to that many belts.
We also have a...
Also have a vibrotactile pillow here.
Inside is, again, a transducer.
So a transducer is...
(29:31):
I should have had one here.
But it's designedmuch the same way as the speaker is,
but it's designed to emphasizevibration of sound.
So inside of the pillow is a transducer,
and it's wired to just a small mini app here,
(29:54):
which is connected to my computer.
And I'm just going to play something from, I think,
an Ethiopian band called Tinariwen.
♪ Singers singing a traditional song with an electric guitar playing ♪
(30:14):
So with the pillows,there is sound and vibration.
I think you can hear the sound coming out of it now.
But these are designed...
They're soft, so they're easy to hold.
They're very comfortable to hold.
(30:37):
I really put a lot of emphasis ondeveloping the pillow idea during COVID.
And we also, at that time,we're working on a handheld system.
The idea being that we want to reducecosts of this kind of technology
so that people could actually purchasethem for their own personal use.
(31:01):
And something like this
or any of these systems
can be hooked up to your entertainment system at home.
So you could be watching a movieand holding one of these pillows or
listening to your favorite albumand holding one of the pillows.
But pushing the idea of the pillow forward,
(31:22):
we now have a wireless vibrotactile pillow.
So we're able to eliminate
the cables, which,
particularly if we're working with live theater and people are moving around,
cabling becomes quite a
(31:43):
difficult thing for people to maneuver.
And so these you just...
The Bluetooth is a fairly recent
development in Bluetooth technology.
And so these you can just connectto your iPhone or your computer,
(32:06):
and you're free to move around.
These are also really nice to hold.
I've had people put them at their back.
I've had people put them under their feet.
So it's really flexible in termsof how you want to interact with them.
(32:29):
I'll show you here.
Behind me we have a vibrotactile floor.
We've been working...
I first designeda vibro-tactile floor
for Tangled Art Gallery in Toronto,probably five, six years ago now,
(32:50):
for an artist that wasshowing there, Deirdre Logue.
And I built four sections of floor this size,
and they were solid.
This is in four components,but those were solid sections.
She's a video artist, so the monitors
(33:12):
were mounted on the wall low.
Then the sound, rather than coming outof a speaker or something,
was channeled into the floor.
So the sound videos was coming outof the floor, which was really...
What happened was it really changed theexperience of sound within the space.
It really kind of filled the roomwith a different sound quality.
(33:38):
[Diane:] People could walk on the floor?
[David:] Yeah, they were all ramped.
The idea is that whenever we work with anyof our technology,
we try to think about access.
From as many perspectives as possible.
So I ramped them all
(34:00):
so wheelchair users could experience them
on the floor, could experience the sound on the floor,
But people would comein and sit on them or lie down,
just however they wanted or could best experience
that quality of vibration.
(34:22):
So now we're starting to work withseparating sound into the floor.
In the case of this one,we can have four different sounds going
into the floor, or we can control it
so that sound will move in a circular pattern
or however, whateverdirection you want the sound to move.
(34:46):
And this is a component that then could bereproduced into multiples within a room.
So a whole room could actuallybecome a vibro-tactile floor space.
I guess we can look at the wall.
[Diane:] Yeah.
[David:] Okay. We've moved over to another installation
(35:08):
that we call Haptic Voices,
which is, we also refer to itas the vibro-tactile wall.
The idea came out of, again,
out of the period of COVID when...
First of all, there was Canada Council,Ontario Arts Council,
(35:30):
we were able to receive funding to
support artists during COVID.
We wanted to develop something that
connected, the idea of connection.
So Haptic Voices is a wall, a vibrotactile wall,
(35:54):
that's made up of 10 transducers.
So each of these is a transducer.
The design also allows
for the transducers to move independently,
sideways, and these can move up and down
so to adjust to height,
(36:17):
to body type, as as much as possible.
And also, they're mounted on rubber bands sothat as you lean against it,
it tends to sort of form to the body.
So If I were to lean against it,
(36:38):
the idea is to adjust it to your shoulder area,
lower back, the thigh and the caps.
Then just lean back.
(37:00):
You can put your full body back into it,and it's very strong.
And then we have an iPad
that's programmed so that you can control
the sound and vibration.
(37:21):
We've now commissioned, I think,about five artists or musicians to
create work for the wall.
The other feature is that,
again, back to the idea of connecting,
was to set up a website where people could
(37:46):
go on to their website or go on to their laptop,
open up the websiteand voice into their laptop, for instance,
and they're anywhere in the world,and their voice would be
transmitted to the wall, and you'd feel their voice.
And we'd set up a camera
(38:09):
so that through the website,
the person creating the sound could see the
reaction of the person leaning against the wall.
It also has an intensity adjustment.
Right now, we have threecompositions on this control.
(38:33):
We've got a piece by John Gzowski,a Toronto-based composer.
We have a piece that Jim Ruxton created himself,
and he actually created while hewas leaning against the wall,
which is the ultimate experience, I guess,
(38:54):
in terms of your instantaneous feedback.
And then Ailís Ní Ríain is a deaf composer
from - Irish composer living in the UK.
And I'll just demonstrate.
♪ Saxophone music playing for a few seconds, then David speaks over the music ♪
(39:18):
[David:] That's moving independentlythrough 10 channels on the wall.
So if you lean against it,
you're getting 10 points of sensation,
vibrotactile sensation.
(39:43):
You can't anticipate where it's coming
unless you know the piece really well,
which transducer is coming into.
♪ David stops the music ♪
(40:04):
So that gives you an idea of...
We could have 10 musicians or 10 instrumentalists
playing live and channel them independently
into each of the transducers.
(40:25):
So I think it has a lot of possibilities yet.
I think I mentioned earlier,one of the things we're looking at
in terms of this conceptis to condense it
so that it was something that could betransported and easily placed
(40:46):
in the back of a wheelchairor a chair for that matter.
We recognize that even though we'veconsidered accessibility with this,
it's still inaccessible for some people.
We're very conscious of that and alwaystrying to and adapt and figure out
how we can make it more available.
(41:13):
[Diane:] Well, thank you so much for welcoming me in that amazing space.
So are you working on specificprojects right now?
[David:] Yeah. Well, I guess I think firstup is a trip to New York City.
(41:33):
We're working with the Parsons School of Design
there, and their year-endfashion show is happening.
so I'm going.
We've already shippedall the stuff over there.
We're setting up a system of 25vibro tactile belts for the audience
(41:55):
to get an added
sensory experience of the fashion show.
That's going to be a strange time to go to New York, but it's going to be
a really interesting thing.
Gosh.
(42:16):
Well, I mentioned Erin Ball.
We're continuing to work with Erin Ball.
We're working, again,an ongoing project with
Vanessa Dion Fletcher, who'sa Lenape artist in Toronto.
She's working on an exhibition thatwould be happening at
(42:39):
what was the Art Gallery of Windsor.
It's now called Art Windsor-Essex.
There's lots more happening.
I think just referring back to what I hadsaid earlier around some of the projects
that tend to be ongoing.
(43:00):
It's rare that we have - everythinggets wrapped up in one session.
So typically,what happens in one leads to another.
And so, yeah, many of ourprojects last over multiple years.
[Diane:] Well, thank you again.
(43:21):
And I'm sure we will see eachother in one project or another.
[David:] Yeah, definitely have a feeling we will,
now that I have a better sense of what your
illustriousness is all about.
It seems to be fascinating.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's really a lot ofconnections with
(43:44):
what you're doing and would love to.
[Diane:] Well, thank you.
[David:] Okay. Thank you very much.
My pleasure.
♪ Closing theme music ♪
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