ArtStorming the City Different: Bobby Beals

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Bobby Beals, a sixth-generation Santa Fean, shares his journey as a painter, gallery owner, and skateboard entrepreneur who bridges traditional fine art with skateboarding culture to create inclusive creative communities.

Music for ArtStorming the City Different was written and performed by John Cruikshank.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ever wonder what makes really creative people
tick?
Where do their ideas come from?
What keeps them energized?
What kinds of things get intheir way?
Is their life really as muchfun as it looks from the outside
?
Hello, I'm your host, liliPierpont, and this is
ArtStorming, a podcast about hownew ideas come to life and
become paintings, sculptures,plays or poems, performances or

(00:25):
collections.
Each episode I'll chat with aguest from the arts community
and explore how the mostcreative among us stare down a
blank canvas or reach into thevoid and create something new.
Today, I'll be art-stormingwith painter, gallerist, skater

(00:46):
and multi-generational SantaFean Bobby Beals.
I've spoken to Bobby a coupletimes at openings at his gallery
and, like many hosts, he wasalways warmly cordial and also
busy with all of his otherguests, so the conversations
were rarely more than fleeting.
So this conversation that wejust had was a real treat.
You know, when you know someonehas substance even though you

(01:07):
don't even really know them.
That's how Bobby has alwaysstruck me, and I know he's
really well admired in thecommunity.
But it wasn't till this littlechat that I got to see the
depths of that substance.
I can honestly say now that Ilove this man.
I can honestly say now that Ilove this man, A thoroughly
generous, lovely human and agreat role model for our

(01:28):
community.
Meet Bobby Beals.
So I'm with Bobby Beals andwe're at the historic Bishop's
Lodge and right before I hitplay, bobby was telling me about
his connection to this place.
So will you repeat that again?
Because I think it's sointeresting, because we're only

(01:49):
about, I don't know, maybe amile from where I live, but just
the approach here is sobeautiful and Baldy had snow on
it and you know it's just such aspecial, special place.
So what's your relationship toit?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I love this time of year because the snow is
melting, the rivers are flowingand it's really nice and my
family's from here.
I am a sixth generation SantaFean and we were talking about
my great aunt, who is Nino OteroWarren and Aloysia Luna Bajer.
Nino Otero has a school namedafter her here in Santa Fe

(02:23):
called Nino Otero.
It's a public school and shewas just initiated into a
quarter by the US Mint last year.
So she's on a quarter, which isreally exciting.
The US Mint came here, we wentto the History Museum and had a

(02:43):
great little presentation.
One of my cousins, consiConsuelo.
She really jumped on on thisopportunity when they reached
out and kind of pushed forwardthis powerful woman in our
family.
So it's really exciting.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah Well, Santa Fe.
For people who don't know it,one of the things that's kind of
well known for is supportingvery powerful women.
You know, women have quite ahistory here and I know there's
even a project involved herejust illuminating all the women
who have been power players here.
But how cool that you're adescendant of one of those.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, I'm really excited about it of one of those
.
Yeah, I'm really excited aboutit.
And we still have a littleproperty that's in a trust, that
is little Adobe casitas, wherethey homesteaded.
But you're right, yeah, a lotof women, you know either, have
come out to the Wild West, theSouthwest, and empowered
themselves, you know, likeGeorgia O'Keeffe and Agnes
Martin and Agnes Pelton there'sjust so many to name.

(03:45):
But it's really nice that NinaOtero Warren is part of that,
you know, beautiful community ofwomen.
She was a superintendent aswell, so she did a lot for
children here in the schoolsystem.
She fought for women's suffrageas well.
So I can't even imagine beingaround that time in the 20s and

(04:08):
30s doing that as much less now,even.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
That we're still doing it, that we're still yeah
exactly Pretty wild.
And women in New Mexico wereallowed to own property too,
which is another thing that Ifind fascinating.
You know one of the few statesthat allow women to own property
.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Isn't that interesting.
I know that nationally in thelate 70s women could get a
credit card.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Finally, Without their husband's permission,
without their husband'spermission exactly, or sign off.
Oh, that's so crazy.
Well, I mean, that's a sort ofa wild way to start, but we're
here on this sort of very sacredland of Bishop's Lodge and
because of your family history,we couldn't not go there, since
this is all about the citydifferent.
So did you grow up here and goto school here and all that, or

(05:01):
did you leave and come back?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I grew up here.
My grandparents are a big partof raising me here in this town,
and so it's interesting becauseBishop's Lodge here we're on
Tezucco Pueblo, one of the 19pueblos in New Mexico, and I
used to come here as a kid andride horses.
Bishop's Lodge was a resortthat people would.

(05:24):
You know.
There was a ranch here, therewould be campfire songs, there
would be stays here.
I looked up in 1949, I found alittle pamphlet from Bishop's
Lodge that was for one singleroom.
It was $12 a night.
So that was kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
It was only $1,200 a night right.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Right, exactly yeah.
They do have a great local rate, which is kind of interesting.
But yeah, so I used to come andride horses here and kind of
have a little history here.
It's really nice.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
So when did you decide?
Because you were over on CanyonRoad for a while, right?

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
And actually your name has been floating around in
my skull for a while, becauseSummers Randolph, when I
interviewed well, actually along time ago, he kept saying
you've got to meet Bobby Beals.
You've got to meet Bobby Bealsand I thought I'll get to it
eventually, but you were onCanyon Road and somehow I was
just never on Canyon Road, so Inever dropped in to say hello.
And then when I heard thatyou'd moved up here and started
doing these events, I thoughtokay, now's my chance.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So, yeah, I feel the same about you as well, because
you would interview summers andyou interviewed Michael Burke
and some some of my friends thatI'm like who is this person
like doing such cool interviews?
And so I really appreciatebeing here.
But yeah, I was on Canyon road,did that since 2001 to 2020,
january 1st 2020.
So I was on Canyon Road andreally explored representing

(06:55):
young, new contemporary artistsand it just kind of took off.
It was really interesting tohave that experience and I've
worked with a lot of artists onthe way that really helped me
build my career.
Um, you know, couldn't havedone that without them.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
So yeah, so.
So who else have I interviewed?

Speaker 2 (07:16):
that you well, sienna luna is one of your.
Alexandra.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Alexandra eldridge yeah so I mean you, you're like
halfway there.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Right, exactly, yeah, I'm happy to be part of this
club.
Oh, it's really cool.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
So why did you decide to leave Canyon Road?
I would think that that wouldbe sort of such a destination,
although I understand yourhistory with this place.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, well, with respect to everybody on Canyon
Road, I never really felt fullyaccepted there.
You know, I opened the galleryat a young age and it just there
was only a few people thatreally kind of were cheering for
me as a neighbor or fellowcolleague, fellow colleague, and

(08:11):
so it was very much a hard road, I think, to develop an art
career on Canyon Road.
I would paint out here,actually here in the Rancho
Encantado, and that's how I gotlinked up with Aubert, who runs
Bishop's Lodge about 15 yearsago.
So that's what brought me here.
But I was kind of, um, you know, it was a career, it was
raising a family, um, you know,and so it was a lot of work, um,

(08:33):
and canyon road just felt like,um, I'm from here, um, I didn't
really feel accepted on theroad.
It was really interesting for awhile, except by clients.
Um, you know, I I was doing, Iwas very successful as far as,
like, people come visiting, youknow, locals buying art,
supporting the artists.
I would have mariachis at everyshow and different bands and

(08:56):
DJs and really kind of bringthis energy there.
And so when it came to a timewhen I was going to Art Dubai,
hamptons, art Basel.
I was traveling around a lotand I was doing very well in
these different markets outsideof Santa Fe.
I kind of felt like Santa Fewas my home base and you know I

(09:18):
would do my best to to honor theartists that I represent and I
still represent the artists Irepresented 20 years ago.
So I basically made a decisionto eventually leave Canyon Road.
I actually gave my landlordslike a year and a half notice
that I'm planning to do that andthey're very great and gracious

(09:41):
to assist me in that transition.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
And this came available and you just pounced
on it.
Is that how?

Speaker 2 (09:47):
January 1st 2020,.
I was out of the art business,I left Canyon Road.
I was like what am I going todo with my life?
And the pandemic happened a fewmonths later.
I mean, it was happening then,but in New Mexico on March 15th.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
That's, that's when it kind of happened.
Um, so I was like, what am Igonna do with my life?
And then the uh auberge one ofthe auberge CEOs reached out to
me and said you have to meet the, the GM, and the experience
manager at Bishop's Lodge andjust talk to them.
And so my son and I uh, who's10 at the time we came here and

(10:28):
we had chips and salsa upstairsat skyfire restaurant with
angelica, who's a gm at the time, and megan godin, who's an
experienced designer.
And we just talked about thisconcept of a gallery on property
where we're talking right now,inside the horseshoe gallery.
That might have been a fitnesscenter or a boardroom.

(10:52):
There was a lot of differentthings, and so I immediately
realized that it was going to beup to me to make this place a
gallery, and I felt like I wastalking on behalf of all artists
, all art in general, to bringart to this place, and the team

(11:13):
at O'Barridge is very muchinterested in that.
They really took a leap.
You know, art's not reallypushed forward a lot as you know
, in the community it's otherthings first but they took a
leap of faith in me, uh, tocreate this gallery concept.
So I designed a logo, Idesigned the name the horseshoe
gallery.

(11:33):
Uh, I've worked with megangodin.
I actually designed the fontfor it and the concept and I
said this is the kind of artthat I think you guys should you
show in your gallery.
So I was just getting paid forthat and then when I presented
it, they're like why don't youdo it?
So I thought it was a greatidea, because I wasn't quite

(11:54):
sure what I was going to do inmy next step in my life.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Isn't it just so cool how life just sometimes throws
things just right.
Duh, there you are, boom done.
Yeah, that's amazing it wasamazing and you're an artist
yourself.
So how?
How did you make the transitionfrom?
Are you still a practicingartist?
And and how do you make thedecision between representing
yourself, as some galleries dotheir vanity galleries, I guess

(12:18):
they're called or representingthese other artists, or do you
do a combination of both?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
or I started off, um.
So the first, my first galleryas an artist, um creating
painting, um showing my work,and that's what really paid.
I kind of like fibbed about umhaving six months of rent saved
up to the landlord and you know,um, and I just painted in front
of the gallery till I sold.
You know, I just painted andpainted until I sold art and

(12:43):
made enough money to do that.
But people would say, can youpaint a horse?
And I cannot paint a horse tothis day To save my life.
I can ride them, and you know,but I can't.
It's just difficult for me.
So I get a horse artist.
Do you sell any bronze?
I get a bronze artist, you know.
So this kind of like developedwhere I started to be an artist

(13:04):
but also curate art and theartists I was selecting, or I
should say the art that theartists that were selecting me
to represent them, which is avery important, valuable choice.
It just kind of took off and soI was instantly an art dealer

(13:24):
and curating, and just I had somuch energy to do that.
So my art took a back seat alittle bit during that time,
although I was painting on pleinair, just little studies all
the time to keep focus.
So, yeah, it just kind of tooka backseat until about 2008 when

(13:47):
we had our like a littleeconomy crash, if you remember,
and I had a little time, and soit's just a time thing.
And so, when you know, Istarted to paint more and do
commissions for hospitals andinterior designers, but it was a
little bit outside of thegallery, as you can imagine.

(14:08):
I have, you know, my firstgallery had about 15 artists and
when someone come in and theydid your painting for this, it
would be like, well, you cantake my painting or this other
artist.
So there's a little bit of aconflict of interest, even
though I think the artists wouldhave supported me fully to
showcase my own work.
So there was a little bit ofthat going on in my value system

(14:32):
, that I kind of took a backseat and then I would do
commissions outside of thegallery, and so that's kind of
this was before you had a family, so you actually had a little
bit of you know know, a littletiny bit of extra time to do
that um, it was pretty much thesame time I got I started the
gallery was I had my family andyou know, started having kids
and, um, yeah, I've talked toone other dad, um alberto um

(14:58):
zama, and you know so I mean youguys.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
It's like a different story because it's a very
different demand on your timetrying to juggle a career, an
art career and a gallery careerand, in his case, a music career
.
I don't know if you might havethat in your pocket too.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
I'm a huge fan of him and his work and his family and
him as a dad.
We see each other sometimes atthe dad events or, you know,
scooting around these kids andyou know, whenever I see that,
it just warms my heart and I'mjust like, wow, you're doing it,
you know, and he also supportsother artists as well, so did

(15:38):
you interview him?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
I can't remember what episode.
Oh, he was episode 16.
And I know that because he wasthe last episode I did before.
I had an exhibition for thefirst 16 artists, and so I
interviewed him about this timelast year and and you know I
can't remember what oh, hebrought over a piece to the

(16:00):
gallery.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
But you guys have the skateboard art thing in common
too, right, I mean, doesn't hedo skateboard art?
Yeah, in fact, he's done askateboard for my company.
So I'm celebrating 10 years ofowning a skateboard company.
Um, and it's just been reallyexciting, um the.
When I was um at Canyon road, Istarted to feel even my own
friends were like, can I go toyour gallery opening?

(16:27):
And I'm like, of course youknow, like please, but it was
just this disparity between youknow where we grew up and where
I was and this, this kind oflike you know, concept of, oh,
you're doing this gallery thing,you know, type of type of thing
.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
So did they feel like , because they weren't buying,
they weren't consumers, thatthey weren't welcome?
Was that sort of theunderstanding that they had?
I mean, yes, it wouldn't be theonly ones, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:52):
definitely.
Um, you know, I broke that,that concept or that idea by
immediately, you know, bywelcoming everybody.
But, um, you know, we wouldhave these big parties at the
gallery and people would beoverflowing on the street.
And it just reminded me of whenI was a kid going to my uncle's
on Aseke Amadre right there,and he had Frito Pies and you

(17:15):
would just show up and youdidn't really know everybody.
But you know, you have allthese cousins and stuff like
that.
So I kind of became, you know,a lot of Canyon Road, like where
are these people coming from?

Speaker 1 (17:27):
And it was really nice to have that and yeah, I
sort of I'm so glad I'm sorry Imissed experiencing that,
because one of the things thatI've thought was maybe a missed
opportunity is there wasn't thatlike community center, and I
guess you know it's hard to havea center when Canyon Road is so
long.
But I used to come here atChristmas time.
My mother lived here in thelate 80s and early 90s and you

(17:49):
know the.
You know Christmas Eve, thewalk on Canyon Road, I mean it
was sort of like that.
I mean you know, just sort ofyou stopped every so often and
there were bonfires and Siennaand I talked about that too.
That was a really great memorythat I have.
But one of the things I loveabout coming to your gallery
openings is that they do feellike that.
You always know that you canshow up and something.
There's just something reallycommunity-based about an opening

(18:13):
here that's distinct from and Igo to a lot of gallery openings
and usually I'm there tosupport friends.
But there's something aboutwhat you've figured out here and
it's all starting to make senseto me because it's like what
you brought to it I appreciatethat.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and everyone's welcome every show.
Um, we're having a skateboardshow coming up soon, um, where
we gave 20 blank skateboards toartists and it's called
unpolished, so the artists arejust creating, they're not quite
finishing their work, so and inthat we're teaching like
letting go and we're alsopresenting that it is good

(18:49):
enough type of thing.
And so we went to the youthshelter, got some skateboards
for them and invited them tocome.
So just a lot of likeintegrated community.
We've worked with the nationalalliance of mental illness,
esperanza shelter, a lot of umbased santa febased
organizations here through theskateboard company and one of my

(19:10):
, you know I look up to DamonArchuleta who owns Initiate
Skateboards.
He's just always helping thecommunity and he does it just
very low-key.
You know it's reallyinteresting, but I really look
up to him and when I started theskateboard company he welcomed
me into the skate community.

(19:30):
The skate community is amazing.
They're artists and musiciansand skateboarding something
where you really, if you, if youfall, you get back up, type of
thing.
And not to be real cheesy, butit was something in my life, uh,
10 years ago, when I startedthe company, um, I decided I
wanted to skateboard, learn toskateboard at age 39 and, uh, I

(19:54):
never skated before and so itlooked kind of fun and I could
visualize it in my head.
I got my skateboard, I went tothe skate park, to to Barbie
skate park, and I dropped in,you know, and I broke my ribs
and so it was interesting.
So I still wanted to learn toskate and so I brought my paints
and I would just watch them andI would paint their skateboards

(20:17):
.
They would ask me to do certainpieces and I would paint you
know, Is this while you'rerecovering from your rib broken
rib injury or?
while I was recovering.
Yeah, cause if you've everbroken a rib, um, sneezing hurts
, you know.
So I still wanted to beimmersed into that community and
so, yeah, while I wasrecovering, I started to paint

(20:39):
on the decks and then, um, afriend of mine wanted to get
going and release a board, andso he helped me do that, and
then we just released boards andreleased boards and kept going.
There's a social good company.
After a couple of years and itwas me after a couple of years

(21:00):
and I donated 100% of theprofits to these different
organizations.
Every time I asked a skater oran artist, they would say no
problem, yes, happening after acouple of years.
And I donated 100% of theprofits to these different
organizations.
Every time I asked a skater oran artist, they would say no
problem, yes, happening.
So it was really interesting todo it that way and we've done
shows in Phoenix and Los Angelesand Denver, vail, beaver Creek,
dallas, houston.

(21:20):
It's just been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
And what a creative way to sort of give people
access to the world of art,which you know, when it's a high
street thing, can be.
I mean, one of the reasons Igot into this is I, in my
previous iteration, I was aninterior designer and I was
doing some work and had anopportunity to buy some artwork.
And I went to New York with apretty heavy wallet and the

(21:45):
attitude that I got in these NewYork galleries and here I was.
I had studied art history inschool, I had a huge wallet, I
was, you know, a serious buyerand I was being given such
attitude for even walking in thegallery and I thought, uh,
there has to be a bridge built.
I mean, you know that art isnot this.
Anyway, the whole thing justfelt wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong,

(22:06):
wrong.
So I started being veryinterested in, like, the
different avenues into the artsso that to burn that
intimidation factor of goinginto the galleries or museums or
what hushed voices in museumsand all that stuff there was
this great program in new yorkat the time called um met hack,
and it was a bunch of unemployedactors who were doing tours of

(22:29):
the Met that were partiallyhistorically accurate.
But the whole idea is they werereally great at gathering people
up and taking them on anadventure through the Met, and
there would be themes likebadass bitches of the Met or
whatever.
And then you get in front ofthese sculptures and we'd all
have to pose like the sculpture.
You know crazy stuff like that,but it really was so much fun

(22:50):
and I realized that you couldinject so much more vitality
into the arts if we just wentabout it in some slightly
different ways.
So, yeah, I mean, I just thinkthat what you're doing is so
important and it makes people,it brings art back to its
origins, which is aself-expression of community.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and that's the point I think, um, you know I
started to, I was in film andvideo before and um 2000,.
I went to lunch with someartists and they just kept
talking about the colors and thesalsa and I'm like get over it,
you know, like in my head, butthe more they're talking about
it, the more I was seeing whatthey're expressing and the way

(23:33):
they talked about it and it justreally kind of opened my eyes
to that kind of expression.
And, you know, I think there'sa way to nourish the galleries
that are high end, scalablegalleries and museums and merge
it with these.
You know other artists that areemerging artists or young

(23:56):
artists, street artists, and soskateboards really do that very
well.
I remember, you know, while I'mreleasing skateboards, I saw
some release at the Tate.
The Tate Modern released someBasquiat skateboards and I'm
like, okay, this is somethingthat's happening.
And it really made me smilebecause, you know, everybody can

(24:20):
collect a skateboard, right,it's something that is nostalgic
as well Just looking collect askateboard, right it's.
It's something that, um, isnostalgic as well.
Just looking at a skateboardreminds you of some time in your
life that you're around thatkind of scene, whether it's the
punk rock or hip-hop or whatever.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
It just kind of reminds you of that scene or
that freedom or that way toexpress yourself, and so yeah, I
love that combination of theresilience that you're talking
about, that you know you falldown, you get back up and
self-expression, those two beingmerged.
And so I think it's really coolto how have you noticed that

(24:57):
maybe people coming intoskateboard skating I guess you
call it skating, right, um,skating who don't have a
decorative board do they sort ofsee the other decorated boards
and think, hey, and then itbecomes like apparel, like when
does it become cross thethreshold into like identity?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I think immediately when you choose your skateboard.
It's like a samurai choosingtheir sword.
You know, so it doesn't have tobe like art on there at all,
it's the wood grain itself.
You know the seven ply maplethat's pressed together.
It's just beautiful.
The way escape is to me, and Ithink other artists too if you

(25:36):
ever see like um, like I said, Iwas um putting what they call
complete um, so that's trucks,wheels, bearings, rip tape,
everything putting it alltogether with some youth here in
town and it's their firstskateboard.
So I didn't give them the deck,I let them choose which one
they want.
And you know this, one kid waslike I want that one, like so

(25:58):
mean um.
The other uh girl was like oh,I want that one, and it's not
what you think they would choosesometimes, and so just to watch
that it, it's.
It's kind of like their firstcollecting of art in a sense,
even when they're skating on itfor a long time it's scraped up.
You know those, those kidsusually hang that board scraped

(26:23):
up, you know, on there and andum, I don't know a lot of
skaters that I know.
I didn't grow up skateboarding,um, I grew up on horses, you
know.
But, um, a lot of skaters, theystill have their first board
and so it's really special, Ithink, and unique.
So you learn these styles from,from, uh, what their, what your

(26:43):
style is.
I think that develops over timeand the next skateboard you
want might be totally different.
It just depends, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
How has the sensation of skating informed your
artwork, or have you noticedthat it changed the way you
paint?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
It's such a great question Flow.
Sometimes, if you skate tooslow, you're going to fall,
you're just going.
The wheels are going too slow,you're going to hit a rock,
you're going to hit a thing, aline that you normally roll over
.
What's that?
That would be me.
Yeah Well, we can teach you.
We can teach you how to skate,no problem, but I think it's

(27:23):
flow is very important.
If you're going too fast, you'rekind of feeling a little
reckless, you know, and so or Ishould say, not reckless, but
yeah, I think it's flow.
When I'm painting, I enter thisflow and it's letting go, but

(27:55):
really trying to holisticallyembody everything I've learned,
but also letting it go andletting that whatever you want
to call it spirit or universe orwhatever kind of flow into the
painting.
I know I want to on acommission if I'm painting.
I know I want to on acommission if I'm painting a
portrait.
I want to make it look likethat person, but you get lost in
the flesh tones, you get lostin mixing colors, you get really
lost in the eyes and the mouthand the nose, even though you

(28:19):
know how to normally paint that.
You get lost into there and youalmost embody the subject that
you're painting right and soyour feet are on a skateboard
and you're bending your knees,your body's like in this like
flow state and you're skating.
And if you're doing tricks, youknow, you know how to do the
trick, but you still have to bein that flow.

(28:41):
If you focus too much on how todo that trick, you're gonna not
do the trick.
You need to, like, relax alittle bit and get into that
flow state.
So skating is a good reminderof that.
Um, and like you know, like Isaid, falling and getting back
up, um, that's, that's superimportant, um, I think, and the

(29:01):
concrete's pretty hard.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
I I can imagine Well.
So these did backstory.
When I was doing interiordesign, I had a group of guys
that I worked with and both ofthem I don't know when I think
they took both took upskateboarding.
Like in later in life I sawmany photographs of them with
broken collarbones and brokenarms and it did not deter them
and they're now in their 50sbecause I'm now in my 60s and

(29:23):
they were 10 years deter them,and they're now in their 50s
because I'm now in my 60s andthey were 10 years behind me and
they were still skating likereligiously.
So this is a shout out to thoseguys, john and Jim.
And then they were incrediblewoodworkers and so I'd be really
curious to ask them the samequestion, because they're in a
flow state.
I mean, I worked with them allthe time so I really saw them do
their work and they were justbrilliant masters of their craft

(29:46):
.
But my question that I'mcurious that's coming to mind is
that have you initiated anyskaters into the arts beyond
just owning a beautiful board?
Has anybody gotten curiousabout painting a board?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
a thousand percent.
Um escape.
You know, I had the gallery oncanyon road before.
Now I have this gallery.
Um, a lot of um people thatmaybe wouldn't create art, um,
maybe want to do art sometime.
Um, they don't approach me toshow in the gallery, you know,
which seems normal.
But when I do the skateboardshow, I have, you know, someone

(30:25):
that works for the state Can Isubmit a skateboard?
And I said, sure, you cansubmit it.
I'm still a curator, you know,and so I like to, you know,
encourage artists like that.
So I've had many artists thathaven't touched a paintbrush or
anything like that create askateboard and they are good,

(30:49):
it's just so interesting.
Another surprise is architects.
They, you know, took drafting.
They're really good at makingskateboards.
I think a skateboard is alittle bit like an easier way to
transition into the fine artworld, so it's just kind of like
a bridge say more about that.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Why?
Because it's a smaller space.
It's like working on a smallscale.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
At first, I think perhaps the literal size of a
skateboard is usually about 30to 35 inches by 8 inches and the
size is feasible.
But there's also this idea thatskating is a little bit punk

(31:34):
rock or a little bit edgy andyou don't have to frame a
skateboard, you don't have tosubmit it through an art review
usually.
Um, you know, you're, you're,you can do a skateboard, feel
free to like, critique it, it'sokay, it's just a skateboard.
But on the other hand, you know, I've hung skateboards by, you

(31:57):
know, $50,000 paintings in thesame room.
You're an interior designer,you can see how these big
windows they're doing now onthese thin walls.
So I've hung, you know, art by aJohn Nieto painting $50,000
painting.
I took a skateboard there's$300 and hung it, you know, in
the same room and it looked sogood and it's just I'm just

(32:20):
smiling inside, you know or withthe client and they loved it.
And so this type of thinghappens the artist is unknown on
the skateboard, you know,sometimes they're very well
known, but in this case theartist was pretty much unknown
as an artist and you know.
So it just creates anopportunity to present your

(32:43):
expression of art and feelvulnerable, but also not too
vulnerable, like musicians wouldrelease a mixtape in New York
before without a record label,so there's a little freedom and
vulnerability as well there.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
And is the community supportive of people who are
creating skateboards for thefirst time?
I mean, I remember I was an artteacher a long, long time ago
and they were high school kids,but the kids who could render
well, they had a lot of cred andthe kids who couldn't render
well had a lot of cred and thekids who couldn't render well
got a lot of heat from thepeople that you know.
So there was this kind of itwasn't particularly supportive

(33:23):
and that may be because it washigh school and everybody was
sort of like flexing to like whois going to be cooler or
whatever.
But um, is the?
Is the community supportive?
In the same way?
Is there there's competition, Iwould imagine, in the skating,
like who can do better tricksand whatnot, and are is that?
Is it a generally supportiveenvironment where people are,

(33:44):
are supporting people to pushtheir limits and go edgier and
everything like that?
Or, and is it the same with theart?
I know that's a big question,but I love that question.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Um, it's very thoughtful.
I think that the skateboard artcommunity is more supportive
for newcomers coming in than thefine art world.
And um, even as theskateboarding part, when I

(34:16):
started skating later in my life, it's embarrassing to kind of
show up and not know how toskate right, but you're going to
do it.
So I would go at night when thelights were on, so nobody was
there right.
But as you get better, there'scertain times of the day you got
to skate and skaters would yellout to me bend your knees, lean

(34:38):
forward.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
You know things like that so coaching you from the
sidelines coaching menonchalantly.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
You know that type of thing, um, you know like wear
different shoes, even you know.
And so there was a little bitof that.
Um, like I said, damon frominitiate skate really embraced
um me and so did the otherskaters there and other artists.
And you know, bear in mind,these skaters have been skating
since they were kids.
This is something they've beendedicating their life to, and so

(35:08):
you have this like posermentality of you don't want to
be an imposter or anything likethat, but you've got to start
somewhere.
And skateboarding reallyembraced skaters, really
embraced me and other artists.
Through that process, as I'mintroducing artists onto
skateboards, the art communityreally embraced these young

(35:31):
artists coming in.
So there is a coffee shopcalled Downtown subscription
here sure, uh casey owns it andwe did a show called skate
skatopolis, um, where we donatedthe proceeds to national
alliance of mental illness andwe invited different artists to
come in and these fine artistswould.

(35:52):
They didn't know who this artwas, but like, whose skateboard
is that?
And I'm like that's an, that'sa 17 year old that goes to high
school.
This is, um, you don't knowthis person, you know.
And so there's this likeembracing, like tell that kid to
come to the coffee shop, to theshow.
I want to meet them, I want toinvite them to the studio.
There's this kind of community.

(36:14):
So I think, to answer yourquestion, there's a healthy
support system in the artcommunity and skateboard
community and there's anunhealthy way, you know.
So I'm only concerned with thehealthy way and, um, you know,
just embracing that.
There's a lot of coaching goingon, um, so, you know, you give

(36:37):
artists a skateboard.
They're like should I sand this?
Do I need to gesso this?
What do I use?
Okay, here's what you're gonnado.
You're gonna, you know, andthen you start to support them,
help them as much as you canwithout influencing their own
unique style, because I'mexcited to see what they come up
with.
I don't want to tell them topaint like anybody else.
So there's a fine line betweenthat, and so I would say 100%

(37:02):
yes, the skateboard and artcommunity is super supportive.
If you find a bad apple hereand there, just move on.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
But it really is great.
So I'm surprised also, becauseI would think that when you have
a skateboard, you know gettingit right.
You've got one.
I mean, you're not going tohave a whole wall full of
skateboards or maybe people do,especially if they're collectors
.
But I would think it would bekind of intimidating to try to
do a piece of artwork onsomething that's going to be
like permanent.
That way it's not like doing asketch on paper where you can

(37:36):
crumble it up and throw it away.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
So it's a huge commitment to this especially.
I mean I imagine not everybodyhas the means to make multiple
skateboards right.
I mean, sometimes this is theirone shot at decorating
something.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
True.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
So how does that pressure mitigate it?

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Artists that are concerned about that.
I send them to the skate shops,where, you know, if I crack my
board a little bit, um, I'mgonna go get a new board and
I'll go to the skate shop, I'llget a new board and I'll leave.
I'll take out the trucks and theyou know hardware and I'll
leave my cracked board with themand they put it in this bin of

(38:15):
used boards and so they, youknow, so there's that and so, um
, you know, the skate shops knowI'm sending artists there all
the time to get a used board andso they can paint on that.
They don't have to spend anymoney.
Um, that's so great.
Yeah, so the skate shop that?

Speaker 1 (38:31):
does take the pressure off.
I mean, I think you know, eventhough I've had the experience
of being a practicing artist, ifI had like one somebody gave me
one skateboard and said you candecorate First of all, I'd
never be able to figure out whatI would do.
I mean, I've been waiting toget a tat until I started at 30.
I haven't been able to figureout what it was going to be.

(38:52):
So I'm now.
I have nothing.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's not too late decision, but um my other I've
got two other questions.
One is how does music tie intothis?
Is or is there musical artistsand the skate community and
skateboard painters?
Is that all intertwined or arethey sort of separate camps?

Speaker 2 (39:11):
oh, without a doubt.
Um, I don't know how manyskateboard videos you've watched
, but the when you watch askateboard video, even from the
90s, um, the music is the mostintegral part, and that's how I
found my music.
So, um, watching a skate park,the skate part by you know, if

(39:33):
you're a skater has a part inthe video, so it would be like
10 parts, for instance.
And so the company it's usuallylike a shoe company makes a
skateboard video and they filmthese skaters over months and
then they create this video.
Well, each part has a differentsong that the you know skater or
the director, producer, andthat song is really something

(39:57):
that just energizes you.
Something about watching askater jump on a rail, do a
50-50 grind to music is the mostpoetic thing you'll ever watch,
and so you start to fall inlove with that music.
And so a lot of my musicinterests are from hip-hop and
heavy metal and rock come fromthese skateboard videos.

(40:20):
They're just got their fingeron the pulse of that subculture
and, as you know, like thesubculture bubbles up to the to
the top, and then there'sanother subculture below that.
It's very cyclical, and soyou're always getting introduced
to new music with skateboarding.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, that's so cool.
So subculture andcounterculture, how would you
define them as different?
Because subculture just sort ofyou know the way you just said
that it felt so unintimidating.
But if I think ofcounterculture, which is kind of
like that has more of likebarrier to entry, whereas
subculture just sort of feelsinclusive, the way you're

(41:08):
describing it.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
I don't know if I would say more about that
difficult times that we're inright now, just because of
political propaganda that hassunk its teeth into
counterculture and manipulatedit and use it for advertising,
marketing to get what they want.
They're very intelligent withthat.
So if you're going to becounter, you want to be counter,

(41:30):
counter, counter.
There's, there's, there's amore heavier force of
counterculture that is out there.
That has to be subculture too,because once it becomes,
non-subcculture is if it'shealthy or not, not good or bad.

(42:00):
Yet healthy Does it serve allpeople, and me personally.
There's a lot of underservedpeople here.
I have a lot of privilege beingwho I am, just born how I am,
and so there's a lot of peoplethat don't have these privileges
.
So, just by definition, doesthat make it counter?

(42:22):
Because society and thepolitics makes it difficult for
them?
No, they're just beingthemselves.
So that counterculture isalmost like a term that I don't
think would be used oftenanymore, because it's just
healthy, it's very healthy.

(42:44):
Iron sharpens iron Like peopleare going through a lot of
difficult times right now.
It's just this necessary by anynecessary means, just to

(43:04):
survive, raise your kids, behealthy, not be abused, not be
someone's thumb pressed down onyou.
So I think there's.
You know, I'm reading a lot inthe paper about our homeless
situation, the unhoused inPete's Place and things like
that, and a lot of thesecomments.
I think it's kind ofmisunderstood a lot.
So what's healthier for theindividual, what's healthier for
the family, the community?

(43:25):
And then realizing how peopleare underserved, how realizing
how people do not have certainprivileges that you may have.
So it could be regarded ascounter, but the counterculture
that I grew up with in the 90swas super cool, like you know,

(43:45):
just like you know just thepixies and you know, as it seems
so counterculture, but now it'smainstream, right?

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
So that it just all bubbles up once once money gets
a hold of it.
Yeah, and so I don't reallywant counterculture to be money
defined, because there arepeople with money that that are
searching for healthier ways ofexistence for all peoples.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, well, I think it's also interesting because
what you've described is such asupportive community, and I
imagine it goes both ways.
I mean, for you to show up as awhite guy in your 30s and to be
supported in learning how toskate, and that sort of
cross-pollination and thediversity of that mix of people

(44:35):
is inherently healing, you know.
So it kind of goes both ways.
They're being exposed tosomebody like you who they might
have thought was out of reach,but you're the inclusive person
who is bringing them into thegallery scene, bringing them
into the arts, and so it helpsbridge that divide that could
otherwise just be getting widerand wider.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
A thousand percent, and there's a lot of people like
that, and when I was showing upagain, people were cheering for
me At the skate park.
There was nobody nobody Now myfriends or you know colleagues
at the gallery scene.
When I told them I was skating,they're like what, what are you
doing?
And so there was a little bitof that, but I was just

(45:16):
concerned for broken bones, orwere they there?

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Was it something deeper?

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Some, some were very much concerned about my health,
you know, falling and brokenbones, but some were just unable
to understand what washappening Because, you know,
again, I was going to Art Dubai,um, you know, I was, um,
wearing suits and traveling tothese fancy resorts and

(45:43):
presenting art and selling itfor ten, twenty thousand dollars
.
Um, that was kind of my way Imade my living, um, but I was
also skateboarding.
So they're like really worriedabout am I throwing this away?
My, some of my artists were alittle concerned, you know,
because I was creating abusiness and paying their
mortgages by selling their artand now I'm getting into

(46:06):
skateboarding and so there'ssome concerns there.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
That kind of uh, you know, just naturally happened
and so, in terms of the flow ofeducating up, how did how, as
you're staying in the skatecommunity changed their minds,
or has it?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I guess I didn't really care.
Um, you know, one of myfavorite artists that I
represent and I do really wellwith is matt gutierrez, and he
was a bmx pro and so he realizedat some point he can't be a BMX
pro his whole life you knowthere's a shelf life to that and
he's still really good at BMX,but he's an amazing painter, one

(46:48):
of the most amazing paintersI've ever witnessed.
He just has this talent, he hasthis drive, he has this kind of
technique.
So you know, when you're doinga trick at the skate park, you
have to do it over and over andover and there's a lot of
failing and you know, like onesuccess, like you landed the

(47:08):
trick and now you know how to dothat trick.
Well, with painting it's thesame thing.
He's just really dedicated anddisciplined to his craft.
And so once I started torepresent artists that were
skaters and bmx pros and theywere into this alternative
sporty kind of thing or they'rein music bands, things like that

(47:30):
, that that kind of developed.
So it became this more holisticartist expression.
A lot of my artists, like bengarza, was in a traveling band,
a successful music band, buthe's also an amazing painter and
so there's a lot of that kindof crossing over into what I

(47:50):
curate recently, so it kind ofblended in I just find this so
cool because you know, you thinkof, plenty of painters are also
musicians, but you don't hearmany dancers or ice skaters or
you know people who are movingin flow types of activities you
know being also painters.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
So I haven't encountered many of them, but
this seems to be kind of morethan just a fluke.
I mean, there's somethingthat's really integral here.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I think so.
We're multidimensional people.
I come to mind like TracyHollister is a ceramic artist I
do very well with and work with,and she was a yoga teacher and,
you know, very disciplined inher practice.
But I think there's theseblending of yourself.
You know, very disciplined inher practice, but I think
there's these blending ofyourself.

(48:40):
You know, I often picture I'venever played the accordion, but
my picture is this accordion,right, and when you let's call
it inhale, when you like,stretch it out, there's a bunch
of different notes there thatare all part of this thing.
And when you breathe, when youlike, stretch it out, there's a
bunch of different notes therethat are all part of this thing.
And when you breathe and youexhale, um, and you breathe it

(49:01):
down to one note.
It's almost this refining ofwho you are.
So you know, does.
Does the bmx pro show up in theart in a different way that
maybe is not immediately visible?
Does tracy's yoga experienceshow up in her ceramic?
I think yes to all of this.

(49:21):
When I look at Ben Garza'spaintings, I think music notes,
like there's a lot of musicnotes in there.
There's less music notes inthere.
Oh, you're listening.
You know what are you listeningto?
He's like Chet Baker ah, I seethat in your work, you know.
So there's this like blend andit also happens the opposite way
, um, like artist david santiago, um, amazing painter of

(49:44):
portraits.
Um, he actually, out ofnecessity, became an amazing
woodworker because he startedmaking his own frames.
He wanted to createdimensionality into his work,
and so there's that.
Tammy Schweitzer is one of myartists that really is into
healing, helping people usingkind of these witchy ways of

(50:06):
tarot reading and understandingour archetypes and our
spirituality, and she just hadto get it out onto canvas.
And when she did that, when Ifirst saw what she was doing,
I'm just like, wow, this isamazing.
She came into the gallery andshe's like listen, we're friends
, I just want to show you my art.
You can say no, you can kick meout of here.

(50:28):
And then she put the piece onthe table.
I was just amazed because shewas able to effectively express
a part of her that has been usedfor something else into art,
and that's where I'm finding alot of golden nuggets.

(50:48):
I'm finding people living morehealthier lives, you know, and
being able to create a spacethat they can show.
That is, I guess, like a wayfor them to breathe through
certain times and just adifferent way to breathe.
And when you learn thatexpression in two ways you can
learn it in three and four andfive and now you're starting to

(51:11):
create like a larger vastnessand capacity to love, to express
, to breathe, to create and getpaid for it when you sell
something which is really nice.
They're going to do it anyways,but it's just really nice for
them to have that experience.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Well, I love that, these sort of multidimensional
artists or multidiversifiedartists, I don't know what you'd
call it, but it does help usbreak the mold and kind of build
those bridges between differentskill sets, because you know,
we tend to silo artists you're asculptor, you're a painter,

(51:50):
you're a dancer, you're amusician but it sounds like what
you've created here is anopportunity for all parts of
ourselves to show up.
You know, all the creativeaspects, get a voice and then it
sort of it shows up how itshows up.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, trust me as an art dealer.
You want the tree artist thatyou're selling to keep painting
trees.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
When they're like, hey, I painted a building.
You're like, ooh, you know,because you're going to have to
learn to market that You'regoing to have to learn to find
collectors for this new way thatthey're expressing themselves.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
It's difficult because you could just have this
like you know what sells in andwell, I'm curious about that,
because if you have a collectorwho is collecting a particular
artist and they love thatperson's art form and they're
growing as an individual and theartist is growing as an
individual, if suddenly whatcomes out of that growth goes

(52:43):
from tree to building, I wouldthink it might go the other way
around.
But whatever you know just goesfrom one.
Say, is somebody working onland and all of a sudden they're
interested in water.
You know, I would think thatyou'd have the collector base
that would support that growth,or is it just harder for you?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Not necessarily.
A lot of collectors reallylatch on to certain styles.
They like that style and whenyou change it up it's like your
favorite band doing a countryalbum.
When it's a rock band it's kindof like what's you know?
I don't know about that, but Ithink it's also for the artists

(53:22):
they're not necessarily the treeartists in our example not
necessarily abandoning paintingtrees.
I always encourage them keeppainting your trees, but explore
this new medium.
And you know, when I firststarted painting, I asked an
artist how do you paint a rose?
And he's like you paint ahundred roses, you know.
And so you know, when you findsomething new, a new way to

(53:44):
express yourself, do it,discipline, keep doing it and
really explore that.
And I think artists are able todo that.
Artists can kind of arealchemists, you know.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
No, there's a lot of.
I get that Because you know arose created your first painted
rose as yourself.
That you bring to that rose isgoing to be very different from
the 10 000th rose that you bringwith that present self to that
rose so even if it's the samesubject matter.
There you can.
You can witness the evolutionof an artist across those pieces

(54:19):
yes, and it's directly relatedto that human experience.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I remember the first time I learned about boundaries
and I did my first boundary withsomeone.
It was a business thing and itwas so scary, it was really
messy and it was just like theworld's going to end.
But when I put my boundary, itwas an artist and the artist was
like, yeah, no problem.
And I was like, oh, you know.

(54:42):
So then I was like everybodygets a boundary.
You know like it was just likeit opened the door to, to, to
that.
My first rose did not look likea rose, but my 12th one, you
know, started to, and then the100th one.
I was really good at paintingroses and and you know it's.
I think it's just opening thedoor to release something within

(55:06):
.
I think there's so many giftsthat everybody has and if they
have the vehicle to release it,it's really good.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Well, that's an incredibly important message for
you know the audience that I'mtrying to reach, because I think
getting people to reconnectwith their innate creativity and
the first time they make anattempt it can be what they
might think of as a disaster,but just like that, you fall
down, you get up and you justkeep at it.
And I'm sort of trying tocreate this concept well, not

(55:38):
creating the concept, but tryingto disseminate a concept that
we need a creative practice,just like we need a spiritual
practice, or we need a creativepractice just like we need a
spiritual practice, or we needan athletic practice or
something that keeps us in shape, and that our creative sides
need that kind of nurturing andself care as much as anything.
And I love that.

(55:58):
What you're doing here isreally pushing people to their
limits.
Not pushing to their limits,but encouraging them to explore
beyond what they might think ofthemselves and fall down and get
up and just keep going and seewhat comes out of it.
It's like cultivating a garden,right.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, and I like that in your curiosity, in your way
and ability to connect with theart community and do all these
interviews, you're learningdifferent perspectives as you're
doing that, and so there isthis incredible way to 360
degree way of looking at whatyou're trying to do, and I think

(56:43):
there's a lot of things thatyou touched on with.
That last statement, too, isone is discipline, just the
discipline.
I'm not a gym rat, you know.
I'm not someone that like, oh,loves to go to the gym, but I'm
getting up and I'm moving mybody.
I have to do that to make therest of the day really work out

(57:04):
for me, because I'm trying toget into that discipline, that
practice, and so when artistsare going to have an idea and
they want to create somethingfor the first time, I would just
encourage them to just do itand then do it again, do it
again, do it again and not be sojudgmental on themselves.
We're allowed to make judgmentsas our own personal curators.

(57:25):
We're allowed to invite thecommunity and have a little
thick skin, you know, but havealso this grace for yourself as
you're creating and noteverything's so precious, you
know, as far as, like, you'recreating, and so I would just
encourage artists out there tojust keep going, keep going and

(57:49):
and take some tips.
I mean, I remember this oneartist.
I was trying to nail this um,the cerulean blue, with this, um
, landscape of new mexico in thesunset, and I painted like 50
of them and I'm like I can neverquite get that where the sun
meets the thing.
And he's like, oh, pumpkinorange.
And then he just mixed thecolor right in front of me and

(58:10):
he took his brush and went overto my canvas and I was like, oh,
you know, and he like did onebrush stroke and it was like, oh
, there it is.
And so he in that, effectively,you, he dropped a bag on me of
money, you know.
Basically, because every timeI'm like, oh, that's the move to

(58:31):
get that feel it's like theSoviets, when you study them,
their paintings in the snow,they'd have this Soviet holding
a pail and the pail would be redand it'd be the one red thing.
It's like ringing a bell inchurch, you know.
And so these like little tricksthat you learn learn.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Well, it's like what you were saying at the skate
park, where they tell you tobend your knees yes it's the
same thing, right exactly bendyour knees so you don't break
your ribs.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Yeah, so it's really helpful to have community that
is supportive.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Um, you know so and again that practice of the craft
you know because, the artemerges from the craft of doing
it.
The 10 000 times, or whatevermalcolm gladwell said.
You know, there's that 10 000,10 000 times rule, that once you
do it 10 000 times, it suddenlyit's like it's in you, right,
it's you that you can dance it.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Totally that could be daunting.
You know that number to to alot of artists.
Um, when you step up tosomething that's blank a blank
skateboard or a blank canvas um,it's pretty daunting because a
lot of artists, when you step upto something that's blank a
blank skateboard or a blankcanvas it's pretty daunting
because a lot of your fears arecoming forward.
So, um, you know, I would say,um, you know, just do it once,
like just do it, and it could bemessy.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Life can be messy and well, every day is a blank
canvas right, and so we do.
If we think of it that way andthat's actually one of the
analogies I've been trying tocreate when I was, the idea of
bringing people into artiststudios is to see them staring
down a blank canvas and they getup and they do it every single
day and if they can do it, youknow your life is nothing but a
blank canvas.
What do you want to paint on it, right?

(01:00:02):
yes and I just I get so, andthat can be so intimidating,
unless you bring these babysteps to it that you're
describing.
But you know, just trysomething, try something else,
add some orange, right, andthere's so many ways that we
need to do that in ourday-to-day lives.
That would enhance the qualityof our lives and the quality of
our work, and I would completelyagree.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Um, it was a mary.
Oliver says what you going todo with this one and only
precious life.
And you know Rembrandt paintedon napkins, bar napkins, you
know.
And Picasso on scratches piecesof paper, andy Warhol on
receipts, and you know itdoesn't have to be so precious.
Like, you don't have to go tothe art supply store.
I love my art supply store, butyou don't have to.
You can go anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Well, I have to ask you this one last question,
because we didn't say how didyou make the decision to get on
a skateboard at 39 or whateverage you said you were?
I mean, like, what inspired youto go?
I mean you had so manydifferent ways to express
yourself already as an artist,so what took you there?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
At that age I got divorced and so that's a big you
know thing in your life thathappens, and you know you're
completely in love with yourwife and your family, but it's
falling apart, and so it waskind of synonymous with you know

(01:01:31):
my life kind of falling apartand taking it back into my own
hands of what I wanted to do.
I've surfed.
I remember surfing in NewportBeach, california when I went
over there.
I surfed every day and Iremember how it made me feel,

(01:01:51):
and so I was searching for thisfeeling and it was so
appropriate that I broke my ribsthe first day.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
It was the first day that you broke your ribs yes,
yeah.
Oh my God, I didn't catch that.
Oh geez, oh gosh, I didn'tcatch that.
Oh geez and oh gosh.
There's so many places we couldgo.
We're sort of out of time, butthat I can, yeah, so you take
this risk to feel that feeling,so that you feel a little bit of
freedom around this difficultspace and you.

(01:02:23):
But you went all in and you'restill there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I think that's to be commended yeah, I almost skate
every day and yeah, it's okay tofail, it's okay to be messy,
you know just it's where yourheart's at.
I think you know.
Try to be the healthiest personyou can be perfect place to end
it well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Thanks for joining us today.
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