March 9, 2025 • 58 mins
Step into the vibrant world of Carla Caletti , where we explore the fusion of nature, ancestry, and artistic expression. Carla shares how the Santa Fe River, with its lush landscapes, inspires her sculptures and gives voice to ancestral connections that shape her work. As she discusses her unique materials and creative process, she dives into the significance of recycled items, transforming them into beautiful figures that embody stories of resilience and identity.
Music for ArtStorming the City Different was written and performed by John Cruikshank.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ever wonder what makes really creative people
tick?
Where do their ideas come from?
What keeps them energized?
What kinds of things get intheir way?
Is their life really as muchfun as it looks from the outside
?
Hello, I'm your host, liliPierpont, and this is
ArtStorming, a podcast about hownew ideas come to life and
become paintings, sculptures,plays or poems, performances or
(00:25):
collections.
Each episode I'll chat with aguest from the arts community
and explore how the mostcreative among us stare down a
blank canvas or reach into thevoid and create something new.
Today we're trying something alittle different.
My next guest, carla Colletti,approached me after hearing a
(00:46):
few of the art-storming episodesof her fellow artist friends.
She'd been asked to do a showat El Zaguan Gallery at the
Historic Santa Fe Foundation,and was also asked to do an
artist talk.
She asked me if I'd be willingto partner with her for that
talk, so that it was more of adialogue rather than a straight
up talk.
I thought, sure, why not, andlet's maybe make it a live
(01:09):
podcast.
So the gallery was game and wedecided to give it a whirl.
But here's a crazy side note Ithink it was the day before I
was supposed to go in and do alittle dress rehearsal for the
mic setup and I got a like onone of my art storming posts
from another art podcast thatI'd never heard of before,
called Art and the Raw, and itwas in Santa Fe.
(01:31):
I had no idea there was anotheractive podcast in Santa Fe.
In looking into it, Idiscovered that it had been
airing for almost three years.
I reached out and sent aprivate message to the sender
thanking them, introduced myselfand suggested that we should
meet.
Well, I couldn't have been moresurprised to discover that the
podcaster was the manager ofElza Guan Gallery, ann Kelly,
(01:53):
with whom I'd be coordinatingthe artist talk for Carla.
Wait what?
Why had I been invited to dothe podcast with Carla when Ann
was right there?
Well, it turns out that Carlahadn't known either that Anne
had the podcast until after sheasked me to do it.
So talk about gracious.
Anne Kelly was so lovely aboutit all and made what could have
(02:14):
been an awkward situation anincredibly sweet experience.
So before I move on to theconversation with Carla, I just
want to give a shout out to AnneKelly and her podcast, art in
the Raw, available on YouTube.
Check it out.
So back to Carla.
Here is the taped version ofthe live conversation I had with
(02:37):
Carla at El Zaguan.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right, I'd like to thank everybody for joining
us today at El Zaguan, which isowned and operated by the
Historic Santa Fe Foundation, a501c3 nonprofit.
I'm the gallery manager here atEl Zeguan, ann Kelly, and if I
didn't thank everybody forjoining us already, I'm going to
(03:00):
do it again.
We really appreciate you.
Today, we're going to behosting a conversation between
artist Carla Coletti, whosebeautiful work is gracing our
gallery right now, and she willbe in conversation with Lili
Pierpont, the podcast host ofArtStorming.
The podcast host of ArtStorming.
(03:22):
Thanks for joining us, and ifanybody here is interested in
purchasing any of the piecesfrom our current exhibition, you
can speak to either Carla ormyself after the talk today and
we are a nonprofit as Imentioned.
So all of the proceeds from allof our art sales go to the
(03:47):
artists that we're showing, aswell as the foundation, and we
also, if anybody is looking forany Valentine's Day gifts, that
is coming up next Friday.
We do have some chocolate fromKakao out there in the gift shop
, so I'm just going gonna planthat and everybody's for now,
(04:09):
yeah, oh, and I should alsomention that um Lily is
recording this conversation soyou'll be able to listen to it
later on her podcast once it'sall edited.
So thanks again and I'm goingto turn it over.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Great.
I feel like we should add thatthere will be a Q&A at the end.
First of all, can everybodyhear me without the mic?
Okay, that's great.
We'll talk for about 45 minutesand then at the end there'll be
an opportunity to ask questions.
Artstorming has been incirculation for almost a year
now.
The first season has beeninterviewing Santa Fe creatives,
(04:49):
and Carla fell into thatcategory, of course, and she was
also kind enough to approach meat the gallery event that I had
for the first 16 artists that Iinterviewed.
On this podcast.
It's available on all yourfavorite podcast platforms and
it's a little different fromsome podcast formats in that I
will be probing into Carla'screative process, Not so much
(05:11):
about the technique that she'susing, although we can use the
Q&A period for that if you havequestions.
I'm really trying to understandhow all the creatives that I
speak to, but today Carla, howshe accesses the creative field
and what that experience is likefor her.
So we'll just kind of, this isall shoot from the hip and we
haven't prepared any questions.
(05:32):
So with that, hi, hi, oh, I'msorry.
Bree is the new puppy.
She's the new co-host ofArtStorming.
Hopefully you won't hear fromher at all, but it's easier than
leaving her in the car.
She's just a babe hi, carla.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I want to thank all of you for coming and for Ann
Kelly has been an amazinggallery manager through the
whole process of the show andI'm very grateful for this
opportunity to be here at thishistoric foundation and I'm so
glad that you were open totrying something a little
(06:12):
different, because you usuallyare in the artist's studio,
correct?
And so this is the first timeyou've had a live audience.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It is the first time I've had a live audience, so
that's a total experiment.
Thank you for being our guineapigs, but here we go.
Here we go.
So tell me the inspiration.
For before we get started todeeper question, tell us a
little bit about what we'reseeing on the on the walls
around us, because this is aparticular collection of work,
(06:39):
right, just to contextualize itfor people who can't see it.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
This is primarily work from 2024.
I work up along the Santa FeRiver on an old compound that
used to be the Santa Fe PrepSchool, and adjacent to the
river trail is a forest.
So I spend a fair amount oftime out in nature.
Sometimes I'll take thesculptures out with me and we'll
(07:06):
sit by the river and I'llphotograph myself with them.
And on occasion I'll take theminto the forest and photograph
them and people use the easementand they'll stop and inquire
what are you doing?
I feel like at that point I'mkind of in the witch category.
I feel like at that point I'mkind of in the witch category,
but it's been really engaging totalk to some of the locals who
(07:28):
pass through and talk about mywork.
So it's very much connected tothe natural world and part of my
experience in the natural worldis I'm able to connect to my
ancestors, to sort of theinvisible spiritual world that I
access more easily in nature.
(07:50):
So all of that is infused intothis work ancestral connections,
animism, nature and in additionI'm responding to the world at
large.
So I may start the work from myown interior landscape, as I
call it, but by the time I'mfinished.
(08:12):
I realize I'm actuallyresponding to a particular event
in the world or a population ofpeople that's having a hard
time, so it becomes evident tome usually once I've finished
the work.
But this collection is a lotabout protection and care and
(08:34):
respect of those that havepassed and of, as I say, these
populations in the world thatmay be having a hard time or
there's a situation going on I'mresponding to.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So say a little bit more about your ancestors,
because we're here in Santa Fethat term is very loaded here
when you talk about yourancestors.
So say a little bit more aboutthat, and how well loaded, in
the sense that we're onancestral grounds we're living.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Oh, so I'm talking about my, in particular, my
maternal lineage.
I connect to a lot in terms ofthe work they did, my ability to
feel close to them.
I have conversations with them,are they?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
alive or the conversations are through the
ethers.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
They're not alive.
So this is my mother, mygrandmothers, my great
grandmothers For instance, thepiece here with the pink skirt,
I call that one Flora.
My mother's name is Flora andmy great grandmother, her
grandmother is Flora and her.
So this is a homage to them, tohonor them.
(09:47):
And did you?
Speaker 5 (09:49):
know them growing up.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Uh, my mother, yes, and my great-grandmother I met
as a young girl, but she diedshortly after.
But they both grew up on someland in northern cal that has
been in my family for sixgenerations, and so I situate
them there still even though thefire in 2019 ravaged the entire
(10:15):
property and it hasn't beenrebuilt.
So when I say ancestors, I'mjust literally my you know my
people who have died.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, I think that's what most a lot of people do
mean when they refer to theirancestors.
So I just had a wonderfulconversation with two native
artists and they they both haveslightly different takes on the
impact that their ancestors haveon their work.
So it's wonderful to speak toan Anglo person who also has
that.
And at my uh last guest,deborah Toffa, her husband is
Italian and she was talkingabout how she took her family to
(10:49):
Italy and was feeling a sadnessabout the fact that, a
happiness and a sadness that herchildren could connect with the
land and pick the olives andtake them to the same olive
grinding place or olive oilplace that they'd had for
centuries and yet her she hadfelt ripped from that
opportunity herself.
(11:09):
So I think the conversationaround ancestors is a really
poignant one it is.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And, speaking of the land, so the property that I was
referencing, where I work, it'svery similar to the property
where my grandmother,great-grandmother and then I
visited.
I didn't grow up on it, so I'vebeen able to return to that
same somatic place in myselfthat as a young girl, I would go
(11:43):
down down to the creek, as wecalled it, and I would sit by
the water and I would talk tothese inanimate beings.
That I felt as a little girl.
And so to be on this propertythe last year working and to
return to that period of timeit's like everyone was gathering
there it's been reallyextraordinary.
(12:04):
I'm not sure I would haveaccessed this in the same way
had I not been on that landworking.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Wow, and so do you draw the colors?
I mean, we talked a little bitoff mic the other day about the
way you use your media.
Say a little bit about that andhow that connects you with the
land.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Well, not so much.
Well, the palette in general isa little softer than I worked
in the Bay Area.
I used a lot more reds, it wasa little more intense.
So since I've been here sixyears, things have softened.
That said, I used to be aninterior house painter and so I
just used whatever leftoverpaint I had.
(12:45):
And, that said, I used to be aninterior house painter and so I
just used whatever leftoverpaint I had.
And that really has kind ofinformed my palette.
Believe it or not, if I haveyellow, I'm going to use yellow,
but if I'm out of it I justmove on to something else.
So I don't necessarily thinkthis needs to be a certain color
.
I just start working with whatI have Now.
(13:06):
The blue belt on the skirt inthe back, I knew that needed to
be kind of a bright blue and soI put that on, and then I used a
little heat gun to remove someof the blue, so it didn't.
So it had a little heat gun toremove some of the blue, so it
had a little age to it.
But there'll be small pointsthat I define as needing a
(13:30):
certain color.
But in general I just startworking with what I have.
I have a lot of.
At one time I had a lot of thisgold and yellow, but I'm out of
that now, so I don't reallywork, I don't know.
Well, the other thing I'mnoticing is that now, so I don't
really work.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't know Well, the other thing I'm noticing is
there's a relationshipdefinitely between the figures
and the figures in thetwo-dimensional pieces and you
know, sort of that patchworkquality of combining textures.
And the other night at theopening you were wearing a
fabulous skirt that you hadfashioned out of little bits and
bobs, so talk about those.
A little bit, oh, out of littlebits and bobs, so talk about
(14:07):
those a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Oh yes, bits and bobs , that's about what this is.
So I make these sculpturalpieces out of all recycled and
found materials.
They all have a bottle cap face, and that started when I was
working along the railroadtracks in Berkeley and I started
to find them and they serve asa purpose for me.
Now.
These figures occupy multipledimensions in my mind and so not
(14:35):
having a specific face affordsthat mystery for me.
So I grew up with a wonderfulgrandmother who took me to her,
the thrift store where sheworked every almost every
saturday, and I worked there asa young girl, so really early on
(14:55):
I I got into um, what now?
it's so popular to upcycle andrecycle, but I would find all
these treasures and, you know,show up in junior high the next
day with bright red cords andpeople were like, where did you
get those?
And I got them at the bargainbox thrift store.
So I've always been drawn toreusing, and I made the first
(15:18):
sculptural piece in 2015 as asort of a protective guardian
for me for something I was goingthrough, and then, a couple
years later, I started makingthem just out of scraps I had
collected.
I use all different kinds ofarmatures.
This one actually is anupside-down chalice that I found
(15:39):
at a thrift store and you toldme you use Barbie dolls too.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
We had a conversation about that.
A conversation about this isthe whole thing the whole.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Barbie doll yeah, well, the only one in this show
that is a barbie doll armatureis the one on the far right of
the trio.
There it was an experiment torefashion.
I can see her little pointedfeet and she does move the arms,
(16:07):
go up and down, so she's kindof exciting.
But you know this oddly whenpeople ask me well, you know,
how did you become an artist?
And I didn't grow up withartists.
In the family my all the menwere engineers we we lived in a
rural community but what I didhave was Barbie dolls with my
(16:29):
friends and we played for hoursand hours and hours and hours in
grade school and we createdworlds and we created ensembles
and we gave Barbie these powersand we gave Barbie these powers.
So I never, until last year,really made the connection that
these are my version of that.
(16:50):
I imbue these with superpowersand I make these ensembles.
But if I think about the hoursthat we logged playing Barbies,
it was in me and so I feel likethat was actually somewhat an
inspiration for these.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, so when they go out into the world to
collectors, how does thatrelationship continue?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Well, I do this fun thing where I ask people if
they're comfortable to send me aphoto of where they've placed
in their home, and so it's justfor me, a photo of where they've
placed in their home.
And so it's just for me.
And I have this wonderfulcollection of images of how
people have situated them intheir home, next to special
things, on shelves in a nicho.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
I feel myself compelled to.
I would want to do elf on ashelf where, like, I'm taking
pictures of it all.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah yeah, it's like Amelie with the gnome Exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Actually.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I want to take one of these traveling when I go to
Europe someday and do that justplace her in all these different
situations, because it's so funto take them on walks like I
say out in nature.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I'm sure they're very conversational.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah, and then one day I was coming back down on
Upper Canyon Road and I wascarrying one of a larger one
that's somewhere else and I wasjust walking back down the road
towards my studio and peoplewould go, or hey, hon or there's
that witch again or there sheis, oh, or what the hell.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well, because they sort of do have a voodoo quality
.
I mean, I what?
I know nothing about voodooculture and I certainly wouldn't
want to speak out of turn.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But they have this.
I try not to use those.
They do have some powers, Ifeel, but I do try to stay away
from the appropriating Okay,well, no, but it's a natural
inclination to associatesomething.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, sure, I mean in the collective unconscious, and
so many cultures use figuresand imbue them with qualities
and whatever.
So I don't know that there's.
I don't know where we go withthat.
It gets kind of difficult.
Leave it.
They're colorful, they're cool,but do they have names?
I haven't had a chance to lookat the placards.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I was naming them specifically.
They're gender neutral, I thinkof them as they mostly.
Sometimes they're more female,but I used to name them like a
name, a formal name Before youstarted no everything is named
after Paintings, sculptures.
(19:22):
I don't have any sense of whatI'm doing until later, and then
I'll force myself to come upwith a name.
Yeah, so this one is she's yardrelic, a wonderful metalsmith's
(19:52):
friend of mine.
Let me scrounge through herpile in this yellow propane
little propane bottle.
I couldn't believe she let mehave it.
So I immediately.
She said, oh, let me guessyou're going to make a figure
out of it.
And I immediately saw a form, abody form.
So now, whenever I'm moving inthe world, I'm always seeing
heads, arms um torsos, and theyall have a purse that holds
(20:16):
certain messages or potency, andand that's fun to make each one
a little purse so the form it.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You just play with the form and then all of a
sudden it starts exactly I'lljust.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
This actually isn't bad, it's a little mini one.
If I had some little scrapsright now, I would just start.
Well, I'd start whipping aroundsome fabric on here, and I see
it in nature.
I see it when I'm in urbanenvironments or in shadows, oil
spills on the road.
(20:52):
I'm rather obsessed.
I see forms everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So when you're staring at a blank canvas, what
happens?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Oh, it's not blank very long.
Say more about that.
Well, I immediately will justthrow down something after I've
primed it and I've added somewax texture.
I will just immediately putdown.
Usually it's on the far rightof the canvas.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Well, actually, most of the figures are on the far
right of the canvas.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I'm not needing to say much about it.
But, more importantly, I don'tknow what to say about it, but
I'll just put maybe a bit ofpaint or a little piece of
magazine paper that's been waxedover and painted and that,
immediately, is the basis forthe form.
(21:52):
So it's often the head isusually last, it's usually the
chest that I start with and Ijust start building it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And when does the communication start?
When the heart center isestablished.
Or Communication, yeah, thecommunication with the canvas.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh yeah, as soon as I put something down, yeah, yeah.
And then I will often scrapeaway a lot of what I've done
because it's too dense and Iwant it to feel older and more
textural.
Or I often will go back in andpaint over things or add color.
(22:31):
But initially it used to beintimidating, but now I just put
something down and startbecause my work is such that I
can't really mess it up.
In a way, I want to mess it up.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And when you leave for the day your studio, does it
come with you?
Do you leave it?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Oh, I do a new thing which I'm not sure is great, but
I take a photo of it and thenI'm lying in bed at night going,
oh that color's terrible, Ihave to go back and change that
skirt color.
So I do work with photos of itso that when I go in the morning
I know what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, you're not unusual in that.
I know a lot of artists whowill take a photograph of their
work and they turn it upsidedown to see how it works.
Yeah, that's right, I've heardpeople do that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, I don't think there's a wrong way to do it.
Oh no, just that I get a littlecompulsive.
It's good to step away andreally not work for a while, but
, um, I feel like I do work allthe time in my.
I'm always working, and do youwork one piece at a time or do
you?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
like?
No, I like to work on multiples, and so you're having multiple
conversations.
I say conversations, you knowworking, and do you work one
piece at a time?
Or do you?
I like no, I like to work onmultiples, and so you're having
multiple conversations.
I say conversations, you knowthat's, that's my word, yeah, or
is it with a?
With a?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
canvas at a time.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, I think they start having conversations.
I'm not aware of a conversationthat's interesting, so is it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I mean, I've had so many different conversations
where the artist is talkingabout when they get to an
impasse with a piece.
You know they have to wrestleit to the ground and they get
into this like argument with apiece.
And I've had artists say theyjust get totally pissed off,
leave the studio and or put itin the next room and say you're
banished for the moment and haveto move on.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I mean, so it's so interesting to hear the
different relationships, right,well, okay, I'm self-taught and
I would say the first 15 years Idid that, but in the past 10
years I have more of aconfidence and a language.
I have a more certainty aboutwhat I'm doing.
Not that it's needing work orthat I might have to deconstruct
(24:44):
it, but I don't have thosethrow downs anymore.
Oh yeah.
What a great harmonious thing,well, as of right now.
Right Gosh, I might have justcursed myself.
I better have another drink.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And how did you decide what scale to work in?
Well, because you've goteverything from teeny tiny to
pretty massive right.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Well, um, when I left the bay area, I had several
four by six canvases that wereblank, because I had had them
for a year and I was entirelyintimidating.
It's very difficult for me toscale up, so it's been a
practice.
I'm more comfortable with itnow, but it is easier to work on
(25:34):
the scale.
There's an immediacy in thescale and the scale and the
larger ones are different inthat I haven't taken the time to
make them as textural orlayered as I thought I needed,
but as they get larger, I'vedecided that having some
(25:58):
spaciousness is okay.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well coming from an architectural painting
background.
That makes sense to me becauseyou're used to working on on
walls right and so you're not.
It's not as unintimidating tohave a lot of negative space.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right, I had never didn't make that good one.
Yeah, no, it's what I likeabout having conversations with
people.
I always learn more about mywork and how people might be
seeing it.
Yeah, that is true.
Yeah, my daughter is here, her,her dad and I did large
(26:35):
interior walls together withwashes, and you know, if you
made a little mistake, it didn'tmatter because that was part of
the texture.
So I think that did.
And then I went out on my ownand did some smaller projects.
But yeah, I didn't think thatprobably did inform that I'm
comfortable with space.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Well, and the gesture I mean, because it's one thing
to move your wrist back andforth on a canvas, it's another
thing to get your whole.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I mean these larger canvases require you to use full
body motion, which has got tofeel a little different than
working into.
They're hard, yeah, yeah, it'sa lot of work and, um, I a lot
of times will use a rag, bigbrushes.
Um, I'm not doing a lot ofwrist work I you you know I do a
lot of scraping.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm really rough with how I apply work, so have you
done a wall again since you'vestarted canvases?
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Well, not since we moved out here.
Our homes in California alwayshad what's more common here
these colorful washed walls.
But since I've been here, Ilike the white walls.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean, it would be really fun to see what
you would do with a blank wall.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Well, this is my blank wall for now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, and I see some relief underneath the texture.
Is that deliberately applied,like some artists will hide a
message underneath in theunderpainting?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Yeah, do.
This was because this was aboutthe fires in Los Angeles, so
this is remnants.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Architectural remnants yeah, very interesting,
and so do you ever hit a bumpin the road and you don't know
what piece is coming next Allthe time, and how do you move
past that?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I'm not worried about it anymore, but there's
definitely times where a day, aweek, a month where I'm like
that's it, I don't have any more, I've done it, I have nothing
left.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And then how?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
does that shift?
That's a really good question,and what I say to people is I
keep showing up to my studioevery day, whether it's close to
every day as I can, um, I makea mess or just sit there, read
something, listen to music, lookon my phone, but I'm in my, I'm
(29:17):
there.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And how do you know?
I mean, are you there eighthours later and nothing has
happened?
Or do you sort of give yourselfa little time out?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
well, it's not quite that linear.
I don't know how to answer that.
I might start something andthen take a little walk, and the
showing up allowing time fornothing to happen and being out
in nature are all things thatclear my mind.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Well, I think it's really important.
One of the reasons I've beendoing this podcast is because I
think it's very helpful forpeople who are non-artists, as
well as other artists, just tohear how to, to make it more
commonplace to sit in thosespaces where nothing's happening
, instead of kind of gettingfreaked out about it or worrying
that you know you've paintedyour last painting and the muse
(30:08):
has gone and never going to comeback.
So I mean just getting morecomfortable with that, that
space, and knowing what you needto keep feeding it so that
changes mean right now beinghere.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
that's what's helped.
But we had the fortune to go toNew York City at the end of
mid-December and I didn'trealize how much I was craving
and thirsty for all thatstimulation and the culture
there.
So I mean, if you're able toexpose yourself to a different
environment for a period of time.
(30:43):
I came back and quite quicklyAnne said, what about this show?
And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay.
Well, some of this workfortunately was done, but I just
went for it.
But I was all jacked up andinspired.
So that was really helpfulbecause I was feeling a little
bit of a lull prior to that trip.
(31:06):
I didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
And so, now that you know that, can you see yourself
regularly scheduling trips toget a large city buzz?
Or can you access that just byclosing your eyes and going back
to your most recent experiencein New York and calling it up
that way?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
No, I think it's day by day and it depends on what
opportunities come up.
I can intend for some things tohappen, but I'm pretty excited.
I have a lot I do right nowwanting make again.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
That's, that's sort of backpiled in your mind in
terms of wanting to get it outhere more okay, yeah but it's,
it's in there and it's wantingto come out, yeah, and I think
it's a it's.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
it's going to be a new series.
I think it's going to have moreof a uh uh, a little more this,
as I say as a calmer, this hasbeen really healing work for me
being here in New Mexico anddoing this work, but I think I'm
ready, in part because ofwhat's going on in the world.
(32:18):
I feel like I have some thingsthat I want to speak more
directly in response to.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And when you look back at older bodies of your
work or older series, can youviscerally imagine yourself in
that embodied, older self?
Or do you just look at the workand it's like it's been born.
It's out there in the world, nolonger connected?
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I'm happy about those pieces, but I don't really long
for that time because it washard at the beginning.
It was painful.
Actually I didn't know what Iwas doing.
I never have taken a formal artcourse, so I just really was
winging it, making up things.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Do you ever look at a piece and think, damn, that's
good.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And I've also thought I can't believe someone bought
that.
I mean, I still I feel like abeginner today still and I hope
to feel that way when I'm 80 andstill painting.
So I I don't really have toomuch judgment, except on
occasion when I see something.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Except every night when you take a picture of it
and you're sitting in bedthinking why the hell did I do
that?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well, that's more just like oh, that color, it's
not like the whole painting,well, that's right, I was
teasing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
It's sort of just an artistic critique, really.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
But my work at the beginning it's not so dissimilar
to what I'm doing now.
It just was a little moredefined.
I've gotten into reallydeconstructing the figure making
um.
A couple of years ago I wasdoing a lot of like amputated
arms and legs, um, some moredistortion.
(34:05):
I'm kind of bringing bottomparts not here back in a little
bit more um.
But at the beginning I was onlypainting women.
For a long time I only paintedtwo men, and it was my father
and Lucinda's father, and it wasjust women and they were giant
(34:26):
heads with large eyes and for meI was always trying to create
agency for myself as a woman andthat was what that was about
and that was.
It went on for about the first10 years.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, that's so interesting because I was
talking to who I think it wasRose Simpson that went to a talk
of hers and she was talkingabout some of the armless
figures that she had and it wasvery deliberate because she
wanted women to be thought of asbeings, not doings, and because
so much of what we contributeto the world we do with our arms
(35:05):
that she just sort of wanted tohave a meditation of, you know,
the armless, just beings, whichI thought is really beautiful.
But it's such an interestingthat that that shows up in more
than one artist's work andthat's obviously like a phase,
not a phase, but you knowsomething that we a passage that
we go through.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
It is, yeah, I mean, I still I don't always put feet,
some of them no faces, andthat's similarly to what you
were just talking about.
These, they're more than theface, they're more than the
appendages, it's their essence,their being, their beauty, their
(35:45):
power.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, I feel tempted to ask your daughter a question,
but that would be a departure.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Oh, would that be okay?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
No, it's just really interesting that I mean you were
talking about the ancestry andimbuing these figures with
autonomy and agency, andobviously it's a beautiful thing
to pass on to a daughter, right?
I mean, that's what we.
I don't have a mother, so mymother has gone for a long, long
time, so it's lovely to be ableto see that continue.
(36:15):
I mean, she's giving it tothese figures in the world, but
she gave it to you too.
I don't want to put you on thespot, but since you're in the
room, it goes, it's.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
It's important to me that that you know shows up.
Sure I can.
It's picking up.
I think just being here todayand being able to hear you talk
so openly about what goesthrough your mind when you paint
and when you make this work isreally special for me to see,
because I didn't know so much ofthe ancestors that you talked
about at the beginning.
But I see that in you and Ifeel honored that I get to see
(36:59):
that in everything that youcreate.
It does feel like an honorreally.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
The maternal lineage and the animals say a little bit
about, since they'rerepresented.
I mean, I'm assuming they haveanimal-esque qualities.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of part human, part animal,
that mythical language.
I went through an early phasewhen I was going to museums
where I was fond of thesurrealists.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, Leonore.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Carrington yeah, leonore Carrington.
Oh wow, I totally see it.
Yeah, so that I was likesomeone does that, and it was
only later that I began to, butit resonated with me.
It was something I might haveseen in a dream or imagined, so
for me they're kind of beingsfrom another world, and that's
(38:02):
my favorite place.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So have you ever worked in writing too?
I mean, I ask that becauseLeonora Carrington, she's such a
wonderful writer as well asbeing a painter.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Well, I did do a series of poetry books that I
sold at City Lights Books in SanFrancisco handmade chapbooks of
poetry, and they were storiesthat I was making up based on
these found black and whitephotos.
So this was before I hadstarted painting.
(38:33):
So I think I'm always lookingfor creating a story that has
more relevance for me today, youknow, and it's dispelling these
familial or culturallimitations.
So I have done poetry in thatway.
Say more about the black andwhite photographs.
Well, I would go to thriftstores and you know how they
(38:55):
have the boxes of these gorgeousvintage photos.
So I would grab handfuls andthen I would make a copy of them
in these books that I printedand I would prescribe a story
that I would weave through thepages of these different
families.
A lot of them, of women workingit reminded me of my mom came
(39:20):
from a poor family and the womenyou know, they all had to work
really hard on the land, makingtheir own clothes in the orchard
, picking, you know, apples andwhatnot.
So I would gravitate towardsthose images At the time.
I haven't spoken so openlyabout the ancestral.
(39:41):
I've kept that really to myselfuntil today, but that's partly
why I said that.
I mean, I don't reallynecessarily need to speak to
that, but it is an importantpart of my work now and maybe
because I'm here where it's moreacceptable In San Francisco I
(40:02):
probably wouldn't have felt ascomfortable using that language.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Well, I think it's also it may be in part that just
as you mature with your workand you become more sort of
fluent in what it is, theseconcepts are that you're playing
with.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Every time I write an artist statement I learn more
about what I'm doing, and I'veactually replaced this one
yesterday because it was alreadyslightly outdated just from
being with the work here for thepast three weeks coming in.
So it's constantly evolvingevolving.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I'm always amazed when an artist can do a series
of work and not want to changeevery piece when they go to the
next body of work.
Because you know you now you'resort of a new person, you have
a new thing that you're wantingto play with, and there was to
resist going back and bringingwhat?
What?
The new series of work into theold series of work, if it's
still hanging around.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Okay, so this one was hanging around.
I couldn't believe it, so I diddecide to make a change to it.
It originally only had twofigures.
The middle was um empty spaceand it always bothered me and
increasingly I felt like there'snot a connection between the
(41:22):
two figures on the right andleft.
So for this show I added thatmiddle.
I think after Anne came to do agallery visit, I snuck that
lady in there.
But now I'm happy with them.
They're like a little clan.
So if I do have a piece layingaround too long, I paint over it
(41:46):
.
I don't keep work like a lot ofartists do.
If it doesn't sell and it'swith me for two years, it's a
new painting.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's fair game and I'm noting that twos and threes
is sort of an important thingfor you.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Increasingly, I'm coming out of my solitary phase.
I think that's why that one wasimportant to me, because I did
singular figures for a long timeand are the three-dimensional
figures?
Speaker 1 (42:20):
are those just grouped in threes and twos by
coincidence, or do you see themas triptych-type pieces?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
I love when they're all together.
So any combination.
I think we did that justbecause, like in a curatorial
sense, it worked to have thegroupings they do like to be
together.
I will say that and do you playBarbie with them.
Yeah, she's a little lowly overhere on the right.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
She's really quite fabulous, and I mean you said
that, you.
I mean, do you create a contextfor them as well, like you used
to in the Barbie days, or arethey just more separate figures
imbued with their own?
Speaker 4 (43:10):
I really do them quickly and I'm not a formal
seamstress I whip, stitch, andso I'll just start whipping
around things and adding, andthen, if they're sitting for a
week, I'm like, oh, she needsthis trim on the skirt or her
beads, or what is going on here.
Oh, this purse needs fringe, oh.
(43:32):
And so I listen to a lot ofworld music, or music from all
around the world when I'm makingthese, and so I think that is
influencing some of themculturally, but they really just
kind of make themselves in someways.
I don't think about it too muchuntil, like the paintings,
(43:55):
towards the end I'm like, oh,those beads don't work,
something like that, wow becausethey really are.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
When I think of it again, I can't get this Barbie
thing out of my head because I'mjust thinking of, like the
Barbie dream house and theselook so great with your
paintings.
I mean, pick any one of theseup, that's a painting, right?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
so they almost need to go together a little show,
yeah so if you buy a page, Iwill give you a little discount
on a figure, just like.
Look what happens.
I'm getting away from the mictoo, but you know it's like when
they're super like the shadowof this.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It's like a little diorama.
Didn't you want me to insertmyself in your work?
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Yes.
I actually love that.
When you said the shadow and,as a matter of fact, this figure
, that's marvelous.
It is marvelous.
Okay, well, we'll see whathappens.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, we've gone about 45, so should we open it
up for some Q&A.
Are there questions?
Because if not, I'll just keepasking the questions.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I've got a question, oh good, great, continuing on
what we're talking about.
My name is Vivian and justseeing your doll up against your
painting, have you thoughtabout actually doing more
three-dimensional with yourpaintings by applying one of
your dolls onto it?
Speaker 4 (45:28):
I did.
I did one day try that and Iwas uncomfortable with that
texture for some reason that Idon't know yet, so I may try it.
I think, making the for therecycle art fair, I made a giant
(45:48):
skirt and the whole ensemblewas out of recycled fabrics and
I think that was essentially myknow, my large version of these,
and I'd like to do more of thatlike large ensembles, more like
Nick Cave's sound suits.
That's my hero, nick Cave.
(46:10):
I can't believe you know NickCave sound suits.
He has some right now inChicago made out of ice and he
just posted them and he saidhurry and come see these because
they're gonna melt.
Oh yeah, oh, how cool.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, and they're, they're deconstructing yeah, so
he had a show at the Guggenheimlast year.
I think it was that I saw.
And I also saw in Chicago theretrospective.
I didn't see the Chicago show,I saw the one that was at what's
the school?
It's Stanford.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
University.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
He had a show at the Stanford Museum a few years back
.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
If you want to look him up, nick Cave, not the
musician.
A lot of times I'll say NickCave and people are like, oh,
dark clothes, Nick Cave themusician.
I'll say Nick Cave and peopleare like, oh, dark clothes, nick
Cave the musician.
He's an extraordinary artistout of Chicago and he has an
entire warehouse.
Imagine this, eight feet tall.
Yes, that's what I want to do.
(47:10):
I don't know how to translateit.
I mean, it's been taking meyears to translate just to four
by six with the paintings.
But I think, vivian to your I.
I think not so much in thepaintings, but I want these to
be big a room.
Oh, and is martha here?
Yeah, so a woman I met at theopening named martha.
(47:32):
She said what about if you madean ensemble that resembled the
figure of each painting and youhad them shown with the
paintings, and it would be likea fashion show.
People would be walking through.
And then I would have my music.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Well, that's my Barbie dream house.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
It's all back to Barbie, really.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
But it would be a fabulous runway, isn't that?
Speaker 4 (48:01):
I know Because being in the fashion show at the
Recycle Art Fair.
Have any of you been to theRecycle Art Fair?
It is so fun and it was so funto embody this and walk down and
be wearing it, so I'm reallyexcited about the scale, but the
armature I'm not a natural withmetal or wood, so I'll have to
(48:24):
figure out how to get thatMannequins baby oh yeah, big.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Barbies right, that's what they all need.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Oh gosh, where do you find them now?
We used to get them out of thegarbage in.
San Francisco, but large-scalemannequins, that's, you know,
life-size mannequins.
I mean, we'll get back to that.
I do have a seamstress bustfull-size in my studio that I
(48:54):
built, the piece I made for theRecycle Art Fair, and I'm about
ready to start another one, butI could see these taking a year
to do each one.
Sure, yeah, good question,though.
Thank you for asking Any otherquestions.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh yeah, what is the?
Speaker 5 (49:12):
relationship between your backgrounds and your dreams
.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Ooh, I'm going to repeat the question so that my
other listeners what's therelationship between the
background and your dreams?
Speaker 4 (49:26):
I think it has to do more with my waking life.
I haven't dreamt much for manyyears.
I used to as a younger person.
So my literal dreams, unlessI'm just not remembering, and it
comes through.
They're very dreamlike, some ofthe backgrounds.
(49:47):
I think that's more how Iperceive one aspect of the world
in the waking life.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Say a little bit more about that.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
I mean you talked about?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I mean, I know you talked earlier about the fires
here, so that was definitelypart of your waking experience.
And then earlier you mentionedpeople who were impacted by the
world, and so how wouldsomething like that and not to
put you on the spot there, justlike if there is something that
jumps out at you how wouldsomething like that, and not to
put you on the spot they're,just like if there is something
that jumps out at you, how wouldsomething is?
(50:23):
It is?
there a landscape that I mean Isee some what could be construed
as a horizon line.
You know that almost looks likedividing water and land, but I
understand the question.
It's really interesting becausethey do have a very kind of
dreamlike quality they don'talways have a ground that
they're standing on.
They're kind of floating inspace.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Right?
Well, they're abstract figuresin an abstracted landscape.
They're not necessarilytethered to their physical
ground.
Here I'm increasingly removing.
In fact, most of them don'thave feet, right?
Oh yeah, no, that's not true.
(51:06):
The one in the back with thosefancy pants has shoes oh, are
those still good?
And here this flora piece hasshoes, but they're very small.
But that's part of it.
For me the work is not entirelydreamlike, but it's not
entirely here, but it's veryvisible to me as something in
(51:29):
present time here, so it's thein-between space.
Yeah, liminal space.
I used to use that before, itwas hip and now I don't like to
say it as much.
But the work really is aboutthe liminal space and the
qualities of transport throughthat.
The piece in the back, maybe toanswer the question more
(51:52):
specifically, it's called well,the Space Between, it's called
well, the space between, andthat is a new piece that is for
me, speaking to our desire toconnect and the space between
that keeps us from doing thatfor various reasons.
Um, and the one figure on theleft has the wing, so there's
(52:26):
like connecting to a mythicalworld.
The figure on the right isreaching out, so that's an
example of how it might beresponding to the world.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
So let's stay with that piece for a minute.
So just with that piece.
It seems like you're trying toexpress something.
You know that somebody tried toreach out another figure who
has sort of an ethereal quality.
You mentioned a wing Like isthat something that you were
grappling with emotionally?
And then you just put it onpurpose?
Speaker 4 (52:57):
Oh, no, not at all.
So this is all I'm basicallycoming up with it now, almost um
, no, really I don't.
They just come about and, asI'm looking at it and I have
thought a little bit about whatit meant, um, and that's how I
got the title, but no, it's notsomething I'm ever conscious of.
(53:19):
These figures come about andthen I assign some type of
narrative for them for the sakeof showing work and selling it.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So if the convention wasn't to name it and the
convention wasn't to talk aboutit so that somebody else would
get it, you wouldn't need tohave made up all that stuff you
just said well, I didn't make itup.
Speaker 4 (53:44):
Well, I mean, I mean I, I well, let me reframe that.
I think there's sincerity in it, but it it's not really as
important as the peace.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Well, that's what I meant to say was that the peace
lives for you as it is, doesn'trequire an explanation, it comes
through you, it happensIncreasingly.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
I find the titles difficult.
I used to love naming them andnow I really struggle with it
Because it narrows the meaningof it for me.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Totally got it.
Speaker 4 (54:28):
And, as a matter of fact, I think maybe even the
viewer.
Now, what are some of thesecalled Conjuring?
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Conjuring, conjuring Displaced Boat woman.
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Well, displaced is literal.
I mean, I'm thinking and seeing, hearing about displacement all
the time and feeling for that,all the time and feeling for
that.
So after I saw him in thisstate, this figure, I just knew
(55:06):
that's what it was.
So that one was a little easier, and both of them, that was
also easier.
These two I had taken one ofthe sculptures I make these
boats out of bark in my studioand then I'll put dried flowers
in them and I will take them tothe Santa and sending them down
(55:31):
with a prayer.
And I usually take one of theseto stand by.
And as soon as I got back afterdoing multiple boat launches, I
just went in and made thispiece and I'm like she's the
(55:52):
boat maker.
Did I say boat woman, boatwoman?
Oh, I think I meant boat maker,but either way, she's about
boats.
But so that was infused.
I was like, oh yeah, I'm a boatmaker, I just went and did that
and this was sort of aninspiration.
(56:15):
So was she a self-portrait?
Not at all.
She just was part of the groupbut I hadn't made her yet cool.
Well, any last questions orcomments.
They're so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
I just have to say that first comment is that they
are so beautiful make sure thatgets on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (56:39):
They are so beautiful , oh make sure that, oh yes, and
I work with wax and I know howhard it is and you say you're
untrained, but you, you master,I think, the ability to use that
um technique and so um thatability to layer and take away
right.
And then one more comment I love, I love is I'm here on
(57:00):
Wednesdays with Ann and she cameback from your studio visit and
she was also just and she saidthat your floors in your studio
are an art piece.
Yeah, and if only we could havethose floors in your house.
Speaker 4 (57:16):
Well, I can't claim all the credit for those, so the
property is very old andthere's been multiple artists in
that space.
But it's partly why I lovebeing there, because it has all
that history and layers andtexture You've added to it for
sure, Thank you.
Thank you guys so much forcoming and being such a great
(57:40):
audience.
Yeah, thank you guys so muchfor coming and being such a
great audience.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, thank you.
Anything else?
Speaker 4 (57:51):
and if anyone wants to talk with me about a specific
piece, I'll hang around for alittle bit.
Feel free to.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
All right, that's a wrap.
Well, thanks for joining ustoday.
Please like and follow us onartstormingorg, where you'll
find a list of our shows, atranscript of this episode with
links to the guest page, as wellas our other projects.
Artstorming is brought to youand supported by ArtBridge and
listeners like you.
Look for us on your favoritepodcast platforms.
Ever wonder what makes really creative people
tick?
Where do their ideas come from?
What keeps them energized?
What kinds of things get intheir way?
Is their life really as muchfun as it looks from the outside
?
Hello, I'm your host, liliPierpont, and this is
ArtStorming, a podcast about hownew ideas come to life and
become paintings, sculptures,plays or poems, performances or
(00:25):
collections.
Each episode I'll chat with aguest from the arts community
and explore how the mostcreative among us stare down a
blank canvas or reach into thevoid and create something new.
Today we're trying something alittle different.
My next guest, carla Colletti,approached me after hearing a
(00:46):
few of the art-storming episodesof her fellow artist friends.
She'd been asked to do a showat El Zaguan Gallery at the
Historic Santa Fe Foundation,and was also asked to do an
artist talk.
She asked me if I'd be willingto partner with her for that
talk, so that it was more of adialogue rather than a straight
up talk.
I thought, sure, why not, andlet's maybe make it a live
(01:09):
podcast.
So the gallery was game and wedecided to give it a whirl.
But here's a crazy side note Ithink it was the day before I
was supposed to go in and do alittle dress rehearsal for the
mic setup and I got a like onone of my art storming posts
from another art podcast thatI'd never heard of before,
called Art and the Raw, and itwas in Santa Fe.
(01:31):
I had no idea there was anotheractive podcast in Santa Fe.
In looking into it, Idiscovered that it had been
airing for almost three years.
I reached out and sent aprivate message to the sender
thanking them, introduced myselfand suggested that we should
meet.
Well, I couldn't have been moresurprised to discover that the
podcaster was the manager ofElza Guan Gallery, ann Kelly,
(01:53):
with whom I'd be coordinatingthe artist talk for Carla.
Wait what?
Why had I been invited to dothe podcast with Carla when Ann
was right there?
Well, it turns out that Carlahadn't known either that Anne
had the podcast until after sheasked me to do it.
So talk about gracious.
Anne Kelly was so lovely aboutit all and made what could have
(02:14):
been an awkward situation anincredibly sweet experience.
So before I move on to theconversation with Carla, I just
want to give a shout out to AnneKelly and her podcast, art in
the Raw, available on YouTube.
Check it out.
So back to Carla.
Here is the taped version ofthe live conversation I had with
(02:37):
Carla at El Zaguan.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
All right, I'd like to thank everybody for joining
us today at El Zaguan, which isowned and operated by the
Historic Santa Fe Foundation, a501c3 nonprofit.
I'm the gallery manager here atEl Zeguan, ann Kelly, and if I
didn't thank everybody forjoining us already, I'm going to
(03:00):
do it again.
We really appreciate you.
Today, we're going to behosting a conversation between
artist Carla Coletti, whosebeautiful work is gracing our
gallery right now, and she willbe in conversation with Lili
Pierpont, the podcast host ofArtStorming.
The podcast host of ArtStorming.
(03:22):
Thanks for joining us, and ifanybody here is interested in
purchasing any of the piecesfrom our current exhibition, you
can speak to either Carla ormyself after the talk today and
we are a nonprofit as Imentioned.
So all of the proceeds from allof our art sales go to the
(03:47):
artists that we're showing, aswell as the foundation, and we
also, if anybody is looking forany Valentine's Day gifts, that
is coming up next Friday.
We do have some chocolate fromKakao out there in the gift shop
, so I'm just going gonna planthat and everybody's for now,
(04:09):
yeah, oh, and I should alsomention that um Lily is
recording this conversation soyou'll be able to listen to it
later on her podcast once it'sall edited.
So thanks again and I'm goingto turn it over.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Great.
I feel like we should add thatthere will be a Q&A at the end.
First of all, can everybodyhear me without the mic?
Okay, that's great.
We'll talk for about 45 minutesand then at the end there'll be
an opportunity to ask questions.
Artstorming has been incirculation for almost a year
now.
The first season has beeninterviewing Santa Fe creatives,
(04:49):
and Carla fell into thatcategory, of course, and she was
also kind enough to approach meat the gallery event that I had
for the first 16 artists that Iinterviewed.
On this podcast.
It's available on all yourfavorite podcast platforms and
it's a little different fromsome podcast formats in that I
will be probing into Carla'screative process, Not so much
(05:11):
about the technique that she'susing, although we can use the
Q&A period for that if you havequestions.
I'm really trying to understandhow all the creatives that I
speak to, but today Carla, howshe accesses the creative field
and what that experience is likefor her.
So we'll just kind of, this isall shoot from the hip and we
haven't prepared any questions.
(05:32):
So with that, hi, hi, oh, I'msorry.
Bree is the new puppy.
She's the new co-host ofArtStorming.
Hopefully you won't hear fromher at all, but it's easier than
leaving her in the car.
She's just a babe hi, carla.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I want to thank all of you for coming and for Ann
Kelly has been an amazinggallery manager through the
whole process of the show andI'm very grateful for this
opportunity to be here at thishistoric foundation and I'm so
glad that you were open totrying something a little
(06:12):
different, because you usuallyare in the artist's studio,
correct?
And so this is the first timeyou've had a live audience.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It is the first time I've had a live audience, so
that's a total experiment.
Thank you for being our guineapigs, but here we go.
Here we go.
So tell me the inspiration.
For before we get started todeeper question, tell us a
little bit about what we'reseeing on the on the walls
around us, because this is aparticular collection of work,
(06:39):
right, just to contextualize itfor people who can't see it.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
This is primarily work from 2024.
I work up along the Santa FeRiver on an old compound that
used to be the Santa Fe PrepSchool, and adjacent to the
river trail is a forest.
So I spend a fair amount oftime out in nature.
Sometimes I'll take thesculptures out with me and we'll
(07:06):
sit by the river and I'llphotograph myself with them.
And on occasion I'll take theminto the forest and photograph
them and people use the easementand they'll stop and inquire
what are you doing?
I feel like at that point I'mkind of in the witch category.
I feel like at that point I'mkind of in the witch category,
but it's been really engaging totalk to some of the locals who
(07:28):
pass through and talk about mywork.
So it's very much connected tothe natural world and part of my
experience in the natural worldis I'm able to connect to my
ancestors, to sort of theinvisible spiritual world that I
access more easily in nature.
(07:50):
So all of that is infused intothis work ancestral connections,
animism, nature and in additionI'm responding to the world at
large.
So I may start the work from myown interior landscape, as I
call it, but by the time I'mfinished.
(08:12):
I realize I'm actuallyresponding to a particular event
in the world or a population ofpeople that's having a hard
time, so it becomes evident tome usually once I've finished
the work.
But this collection is a lotabout protection and care and
(08:34):
respect of those that havepassed and of, as I say, these
populations in the world thatmay be having a hard time or
there's a situation going on I'mresponding to.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
So say a little bit more about your ancestors,
because we're here in Santa Fethat term is very loaded here
when you talk about yourancestors.
So say a little bit more aboutthat, and how well loaded, in
the sense that we're onancestral grounds we're living.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Oh, so I'm talking about my, in particular, my
maternal lineage.
I connect to a lot in terms ofthe work they did, my ability to
feel close to them.
I have conversations with them,are they?
Speaker 1 (09:20):
alive or the conversations are through the
ethers.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
They're not alive.
So this is my mother, mygrandmothers, my great
grandmothers For instance, thepiece here with the pink skirt,
I call that one Flora.
My mother's name is Flora andmy great grandmother, her
grandmother is Flora and her.
So this is a homage to them, tohonor them.
(09:47):
And did you?
Speaker 5 (09:49):
know them growing up.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Uh, my mother, yes, and my great-grandmother I met
as a young girl, but she diedshortly after.
But they both grew up on someland in northern cal that has
been in my family for sixgenerations, and so I situate
them there still even though thefire in 2019 ravaged the entire
(10:15):
property and it hasn't beenrebuilt.
So when I say ancestors, I'mjust literally my you know my
people who have died.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, I think that's what most a lot of people do
mean when they refer to theirancestors.
So I just had a wonderfulconversation with two native
artists and they they both haveslightly different takes on the
impact that their ancestors haveon their work.
So it's wonderful to speak toan Anglo person who also has
that.
And at my uh last guest,deborah Toffa, her husband is
Italian and she was talkingabout how she took her family to
(10:49):
Italy and was feeling a sadnessabout the fact that, a
happiness and a sadness that herchildren could connect with the
land and pick the olives andtake them to the same olive
grinding place or olive oilplace that they'd had for
centuries and yet her she hadfelt ripped from that
opportunity herself.
(11:09):
So I think the conversationaround ancestors is a really
poignant one it is.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And, speaking of the land, so the property that I was
referencing, where I work, it'svery similar to the property
where my grandmother,great-grandmother and then I
visited.
I didn't grow up on it, so I'vebeen able to return to that
same somatic place in myselfthat as a young girl, I would go
(11:43):
down down to the creek, as wecalled it, and I would sit by
the water and I would talk tothese inanimate beings.
That I felt as a little girl.
And so to be on this propertythe last year working and to
return to that period of timeit's like everyone was gathering
there it's been reallyextraordinary.
(12:04):
I'm not sure I would haveaccessed this in the same way
had I not been on that landworking.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Wow, and so do you draw the colors?
I mean, we talked a little bitoff mic the other day about the
way you use your media.
Say a little bit about that andhow that connects you with the
land.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Well, not so much.
Well, the palette in general isa little softer than I worked
in the Bay Area.
I used a lot more reds, it wasa little more intense.
So since I've been here sixyears, things have softened.
That said, I used to be aninterior house painter and so I
just used whatever leftoverpaint I had.
(12:45):
And, that said, I used to be aninterior house painter and so I
just used whatever leftoverpaint I had.
And that really has kind ofinformed my palette.
Believe it or not, if I haveyellow, I'm going to use yellow,
but if I'm out of it I justmove on to something else.
So I don't necessarily thinkthis needs to be a certain color
.
I just start working with whatI have Now.
(13:06):
The blue belt on the skirt inthe back, I knew that needed to
be kind of a bright blue and soI put that on, and then I used a
little heat gun to remove someof the blue, so it didn't.
So it had a little heat gun toremove some of the blue, so it
had a little age to it.
But there'll be small pointsthat I define as needing a
(13:30):
certain color.
But in general I just startworking with what I have.
I have a lot of.
At one time I had a lot of thisgold and yellow, but I'm out of
that now, so I don't reallywork, I don't know.
Well, the other thing I'mnoticing is that now, so I don't
really work.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't know Well, the other thing I'm noticing is
there's a relationshipdefinitely between the figures
and the figures in thetwo-dimensional pieces and you
know, sort of that patchworkquality of combining textures.
And the other night at theopening you were wearing a
fabulous skirt that you hadfashioned out of little bits and
bobs, so talk about those.
A little bit, oh, out of littlebits and bobs, so talk about
(14:07):
those a little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Oh yes, bits and bobs , that's about what this is.
So I make these sculpturalpieces out of all recycled and
found materials.
They all have a bottle cap face, and that started when I was
working along the railroadtracks in Berkeley and I started
to find them and they serve asa purpose for me.
Now.
These figures occupy multipledimensions in my mind and so not
(14:35):
having a specific face affordsthat mystery for me.
So I grew up with a wonderfulgrandmother who took me to her,
the thrift store where sheworked every almost every
saturday, and I worked there asa young girl, so really early on
(14:55):
I I got into um, what now?
it's so popular to upcycle andrecycle, but I would find all
these treasures and, you know,show up in junior high the next
day with bright red cords andpeople were like, where did you
get those?
And I got them at the bargainbox thrift store.
So I've always been drawn toreusing, and I made the first
(15:18):
sculptural piece in 2015 as asort of a protective guardian
for me for something I was goingthrough, and then, a couple
years later, I started makingthem just out of scraps I had
collected.
I use all different kinds ofarmatures.
This one actually is anupside-down chalice that I found
(15:39):
at a thrift store and you toldme you use Barbie dolls too.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
We had a conversation about that.
A conversation about this isthe whole thing the whole.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Barbie doll yeah, well, the only one in this show
that is a barbie doll armatureis the one on the far right of
the trio.
There it was an experiment torefashion.
I can see her little pointedfeet and she does move the arms,
(16:07):
go up and down, so she's kindof exciting.
But you know this oddly whenpeople ask me well, you know,
how did you become an artist?
And I didn't grow up withartists.
In the family my all the menwere engineers we we lived in a
rural community but what I didhave was Barbie dolls with my
(16:29):
friends and we played for hoursand hours and hours and hours in
grade school and we createdworlds and we created ensembles
and we gave Barbie these powersand we gave Barbie these powers.
So I never, until last year,really made the connection that
these are my version of that.
(16:50):
I imbue these with superpowersand I make these ensembles.
But if I think about the hoursthat we logged playing Barbies,
it was in me and so I feel likethat was actually somewhat an
inspiration for these.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, so when they go out into the world to
collectors, how does thatrelationship continue?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Well, I do this fun thing where I ask people if
they're comfortable to send me aphoto of where they've placed
in their home, and so it's justfor me, a photo of where they've
placed in their home.
And so it's just for me.
And I have this wonderfulcollection of images of how
people have situated them intheir home, next to special
things, on shelves in a nicho.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
I feel myself compelled to.
I would want to do elf on ashelf where, like, I'm taking
pictures of it all.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah yeah, it's like Amelie with the gnome Exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Actually.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I want to take one of these traveling when I go to
Europe someday and do that justplace her in all these different
situations, because it's so funto take them on walks like I
say out in nature.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I'm sure they're very conversational.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah, and then one day I was coming back down on
Upper Canyon Road and I wascarrying one of a larger one
that's somewhere else and I wasjust walking back down the road
towards my studio and peoplewould go, or hey, hon or there's
that witch again or there sheis, oh, or what the hell.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well, because they sort of do have a voodoo quality
.
I mean, I what?
I know nothing about voodooculture and I certainly wouldn't
want to speak out of turn.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But they have this.
I try not to use those.
They do have some powers, Ifeel, but I do try to stay away
from the appropriating Okay,well, no, but it's a natural
inclination to associatesomething.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, sure, I mean in the collective unconscious, and
so many cultures use figuresand imbue them with qualities
and whatever.
So I don't know that there's.
I don't know where we go withthat.
It gets kind of difficult.
Leave it.
They're colorful, they're cool,but do they have names?
I haven't had a chance to lookat the placards.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I was naming them specifically.
They're gender neutral, I thinkof them as they mostly.
Sometimes they're more female,but I used to name them like a
name, a formal name Before youstarted no everything is named
after Paintings, sculptures.
(19:22):
I don't have any sense of whatI'm doing until later, and then
I'll force myself to come upwith a name.
Yeah, so this one is she's yardrelic, a wonderful metalsmith's
(19:52):
friend of mine.
Let me scrounge through herpile in this yellow propane
little propane bottle.
I couldn't believe she let mehave it.
So I immediately.
She said, oh, let me guessyou're going to make a figure
out of it.
And I immediately saw a form, abody form.
So now, whenever I'm moving inthe world, I'm always seeing
heads, arms um torsos, and theyall have a purse that holds
(20:16):
certain messages or potency, andand that's fun to make each one
a little purse so the form it.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You just play with the form and then all of a
sudden it starts exactly I'lljust.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
This actually isn't bad, it's a little mini one.
If I had some little scrapsright now, I would just start.
Well, I'd start whipping aroundsome fabric on here, and I see
it in nature.
I see it when I'm in urbanenvironments or in shadows, oil
spills on the road.
(20:52):
I'm rather obsessed.
I see forms everywhere.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So when you're staring at a blank canvas, what
happens?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Oh, it's not blank very long.
Say more about that.
Well, I immediately will justthrow down something after I've
primed it and I've added somewax texture.
I will just immediately putdown.
Usually it's on the far rightof the canvas.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Well, actually, most of the figures are on the far
right of the canvas.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I'm not needing to say much about it.
But, more importantly, I don'tknow what to say about it, but
I'll just put maybe a bit ofpaint or a little piece of
magazine paper that's been waxedover and painted and that,
immediately, is the basis forthe form.
(21:52):
So it's often the head isusually last, it's usually the
chest that I start with and Ijust start building it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And when does the communication start?
When the heart center isestablished.
Or Communication, yeah, thecommunication with the canvas.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh yeah, as soon as I put something down, yeah, yeah.
And then I will often scrapeaway a lot of what I've done
because it's too dense and Iwant it to feel older and more
textural.
Or I often will go back in andpaint over things or add color.
(22:31):
But initially it used to beintimidating, but now I just put
something down and startbecause my work is such that I
can't really mess it up.
In a way, I want to mess it up.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And when you leave for the day your studio, does it
come with you?
Do you leave it?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Oh, I do a new thing which I'm not sure is great, but
I take a photo of it and thenI'm lying in bed at night going,
oh that color's terrible, Ihave to go back and change that
skirt color.
So I do work with photos of itso that when I go in the morning
I know what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, you're not unusual in that.
I know a lot of artists whowill take a photograph of their
work and they turn it upsidedown to see how it works.
Yeah, that's right, I've heardpeople do that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, I don't think there's a wrong way to do it.
Oh no, just that I get a littlecompulsive.
It's good to step away andreally not work for a while, but
, um, I feel like I do work allthe time in my.
I'm always working, and do youwork one piece at a time or do
you?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
like?
No, I like to work on multiples, and so you're having multiple
conversations.
I say conversations, you knowworking, and do you work one
piece at a time?
Or do you?
I like no, I like to work onmultiples, and so you're having
multiple conversations.
I say conversations, you knowthat's, that's my word, yeah, or
is it with a?
With a?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
canvas at a time.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, I think they start having conversations.
I'm not aware of a conversationthat's interesting, so is it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I mean, I've had so many different conversations
where the artist is talkingabout when they get to an
impasse with a piece.
You know they have to wrestleit to the ground and they get
into this like argument with apiece.
And I've had artists say theyjust get totally pissed off,
leave the studio and or put itin the next room and say you're
banished for the moment and haveto move on.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I mean, so it's so interesting to hear the
different relationships, right,well, okay, I'm self-taught and
I would say the first 15 years Idid that, but in the past 10
years I have more of aconfidence and a language.
I have a more certainty aboutwhat I'm doing.
Not that it's needing work orthat I might have to deconstruct
(24:44):
it, but I don't have thosethrow downs anymore.
Oh yeah.
What a great harmonious thing,well, as of right now.
Right Gosh, I might have justcursed myself.
I better have another drink.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And how did you decide what scale to work in?
Well, because you've goteverything from teeny tiny to
pretty massive right.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Well, um, when I left the bay area, I had several
four by six canvases that wereblank, because I had had them
for a year and I was entirelyintimidating.
It's very difficult for me toscale up, so it's been a
practice.
I'm more comfortable with itnow, but it is easier to work on
(25:34):
the scale.
There's an immediacy in thescale and the scale and the
larger ones are different inthat I haven't taken the time to
make them as textural orlayered as I thought I needed,
but as they get larger, I'vedecided that having some
(25:58):
spaciousness is okay.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well coming from an architectural painting
background.
That makes sense to me becauseyou're used to working on on
walls right and so you're not.
It's not as unintimidating tohave a lot of negative space.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right, I had never didn't make that good one.
Yeah, no, it's what I likeabout having conversations with
people.
I always learn more about mywork and how people might be
seeing it.
Yeah, that is true.
Yeah, my daughter is here, her,her dad and I did large
(26:35):
interior walls together withwashes, and you know, if you
made a little mistake, it didn'tmatter because that was part of
the texture.
So I think that did.
And then I went out on my ownand did some smaller projects.
But yeah, I didn't think thatprobably did inform that I'm
comfortable with space.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Well, and the gesture I mean, because it's one thing
to move your wrist back andforth on a canvas, it's another
thing to get your whole.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I mean these larger canvases require you to use full
body motion, which has got tofeel a little different than
working into.
They're hard, yeah, yeah, it'sa lot of work and, um, I a lot
of times will use a rag, bigbrushes.
Um, I'm not doing a lot ofwrist work I you you know I do a
lot of scraping.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I'm really rough with how I apply work, so have you
done a wall again since you'vestarted canvases?
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Well, not since we moved out here.
Our homes in California alwayshad what's more common here
these colorful washed walls.
But since I've been here, Ilike the white walls.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean, it would be really fun to see what
you would do with a blank wall.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Well, this is my blank wall for now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, and I see some relief underneath the texture.
Is that deliberately applied,like some artists will hide a
message underneath in theunderpainting?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Yeah, do.
This was because this was aboutthe fires in Los Angeles, so
this is remnants.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Architectural remnants yeah, very interesting,
and so do you ever hit a bumpin the road and you don't know
what piece is coming next Allthe time, and how do you move
past that?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I'm not worried about it anymore, but there's
definitely times where a day, aweek, a month where I'm like
that's it, I don't have any more, I've done it, I have nothing
left.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
And then how?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
does that shift?
That's a really good question,and what I say to people is I
keep showing up to my studioevery day, whether it's close to
every day as I can, um, I makea mess or just sit there, read
something, listen to music, lookon my phone, but I'm in my, I'm
(29:17):
there.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And how do you know?
I mean, are you there eighthours later and nothing has
happened?
Or do you sort of give yourselfa little time out?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
well, it's not quite that linear.
I don't know how to answer that.
I might start something andthen take a little walk, and the
showing up allowing time fornothing to happen and being out
in nature are all things thatclear my mind.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Well, I think it's really important.
One of the reasons I've beendoing this podcast is because I
think it's very helpful forpeople who are non-artists, as
well as other artists, just tohear how to, to make it more
commonplace to sit in thosespaces where nothing's happening
, instead of kind of gettingfreaked out about it or worrying
that you know you've paintedyour last painting and the muse
(30:08):
has gone and never going to comeback.
So I mean just getting morecomfortable with that, that
space, and knowing what you needto keep feeding it so that
changes mean right now beinghere.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
that's what's helped.
But we had the fortune to go toNew York City at the end of
mid-December and I didn'trealize how much I was craving
and thirsty for all thatstimulation and the culture
there.
So I mean, if you're able toexpose yourself to a different
environment for a period of time.
(30:43):
I came back and quite quicklyAnne said, what about this show?
And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay.
Well, some of this workfortunately was done, but I just
went for it.
But I was all jacked up andinspired.
So that was really helpfulbecause I was feeling a little
bit of a lull prior to that trip.
(31:06):
I didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
And so, now that you know that, can you see yourself
regularly scheduling trips toget a large city buzz?
Or can you access that just byclosing your eyes and going back
to your most recent experiencein New York and calling it up
that way?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
No, I think it's day by day and it depends on what
opportunities come up.
I can intend for some things tohappen, but I'm pretty excited.
I have a lot I do right nowwanting make again.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
That's, that's sort of backpiled in your mind in
terms of wanting to get it outhere more okay, yeah but it's,
it's in there and it's wantingto come out, yeah, and I think
it's a it's.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
it's going to be a new series.
I think it's going to have moreof a uh uh, a little more this,
as I say as a calmer, this hasbeen really healing work for me
being here in New Mexico anddoing this work, but I think I'm
ready, in part because ofwhat's going on in the world.
(32:18):
I feel like I have some thingsthat I want to speak more
directly in response to.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And when you look back at older bodies of your
work or older series, can youviscerally imagine yourself in
that embodied, older self?
Or do you just look at the workand it's like it's been born.
It's out there in the world, nolonger connected?
Speaker 4 (32:43):
I'm happy about those pieces, but I don't really long
for that time because it washard at the beginning.
It was painful.
Actually I didn't know what Iwas doing.
I never have taken a formal artcourse, so I just really was
winging it, making up things.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Do you ever look at a piece and think, damn, that's
good.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
And I've also thought I can't believe someone bought
that.
I mean, I still I feel like abeginner today still and I hope
to feel that way when I'm 80 andstill painting.
So I I don't really have toomuch judgment, except on
occasion when I see something.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Except every night when you take a picture of it
and you're sitting in bedthinking why the hell did I do
that?
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well, that's more just like oh, that color, it's
not like the whole painting,well, that's right, I was
teasing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
It's sort of just an artistic critique, really.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
But my work at the beginning it's not so dissimilar
to what I'm doing now.
It just was a little moredefined.
I've gotten into reallydeconstructing the figure making
um.
A couple of years ago I wasdoing a lot of like amputated
arms and legs, um, some moredistortion.
(34:05):
I'm kind of bringing bottomparts not here back in a little
bit more um.
But at the beginning I was onlypainting women.
For a long time I only paintedtwo men, and it was my father
and Lucinda's father, and it wasjust women and they were giant
(34:26):
heads with large eyes and for meI was always trying to create
agency for myself as a woman andthat was what that was about
and that was.
It went on for about the first10 years.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, that's so interesting because I was
talking to who I think it wasRose Simpson that went to a talk
of hers and she was talkingabout some of the armless
figures that she had and it wasvery deliberate because she
wanted women to be thought of asbeings, not doings, and because
so much of what we contributeto the world we do with our arms
(35:05):
that she just sort of wanted tohave a meditation of, you know,
the armless, just beings, whichI thought is really beautiful.
But it's such an interestingthat that that shows up in more
than one artist's work andthat's obviously like a phase,
not a phase, but you knowsomething that we a passage that
we go through.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
It is, yeah, I mean, I still I don't always put feet,
some of them no faces, andthat's similarly to what you
were just talking about.
These, they're more than theface, they're more than the
appendages, it's their essence,their being, their beauty, their
(35:45):
power.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, I feel tempted to ask your daughter a question,
but that would be a departure.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Oh, would that be okay?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
No, it's just really interesting that I mean you were
talking about the ancestry andimbuing these figures with
autonomy and agency, andobviously it's a beautiful thing
to pass on to a daughter, right?
I mean, that's what we.
I don't have a mother, so mymother has gone for a long, long
time, so it's lovely to be ableto see that continue.
(36:15):
I mean, she's giving it tothese figures in the world, but
she gave it to you too.
I don't want to put you on thespot, but since you're in the
room, it goes, it's.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
It's important to me that that you know shows up.
Sure I can.
It's picking up.
I think just being here todayand being able to hear you talk
so openly about what goesthrough your mind when you paint
and when you make this work isreally special for me to see,
because I didn't know so much ofthe ancestors that you talked
about at the beginning.
But I see that in you and Ifeel honored that I get to see
(36:59):
that in everything that youcreate.
It does feel like an honorreally.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
The maternal lineage and the animals say a little bit
about, since they'rerepresented.
I mean, I'm assuming they haveanimal-esque qualities.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of part human, part animal,
that mythical language.
I went through an early phasewhen I was going to museums
where I was fond of thesurrealists.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, Leonore.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Carrington yeah, leonore Carrington.
Oh wow, I totally see it.
Yeah, so that I was likesomeone does that, and it was
only later that I began to, butit resonated with me.
It was something I might haveseen in a dream or imagined, so
for me they're kind of beingsfrom another world, and that's
(38:02):
my favorite place.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So have you ever worked in writing too?
I mean, I ask that becauseLeonora Carrington, she's such a
wonderful writer as well asbeing a painter.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Well, I did do a series of poetry books that I
sold at City Lights Books in SanFrancisco handmade chapbooks of
poetry, and they were storiesthat I was making up based on
these found black and whitephotos.
So this was before I hadstarted painting.
(38:33):
So I think I'm always lookingfor creating a story that has
more relevance for me today, youknow, and it's dispelling these
familial or culturallimitations.
So I have done poetry in thatway.
Say more about the black andwhite photographs.
Well, I would go to thriftstores and you know how they
(38:55):
have the boxes of these gorgeousvintage photos.
So I would grab handfuls andthen I would make a copy of them
in these books that I printedand I would prescribe a story
that I would weave through thepages of these different
families.
A lot of them, of women workingit reminded me of my mom came
(39:20):
from a poor family and the womenyou know, they all had to work
really hard on the land, makingtheir own clothes in the orchard
, picking, you know, apples andwhatnot.
So I would gravitate towardsthose images At the time.
I haven't spoken so openlyabout the ancestral.
(39:41):
I've kept that really to myselfuntil today, but that's partly
why I said that.
I mean, I don't reallynecessarily need to speak to
that, but it is an importantpart of my work now and maybe
because I'm here where it's moreacceptable In San Francisco I
(40:02):
probably wouldn't have felt ascomfortable using that language.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Well, I think it's also it may be in part that just
as you mature with your workand you become more sort of
fluent in what it is, theseconcepts are that you're playing
with.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Every time I write an artist statement I learn more
about what I'm doing, and I'veactually replaced this one
yesterday because it was alreadyslightly outdated just from
being with the work here for thepast three weeks coming in.
So it's constantly evolvingevolving.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I'm always amazed when an artist can do a series
of work and not want to changeevery piece when they go to the
next body of work.
Because you know you now you'resort of a new person, you have
a new thing that you're wantingto play with, and there was to
resist going back and bringingwhat?
What?
The new series of work into theold series of work, if it's
still hanging around.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Okay, so this one was hanging around.
I couldn't believe it, so I diddecide to make a change to it.
It originally only had twofigures.
The middle was um empty spaceand it always bothered me and
increasingly I felt like there'snot a connection between the
(41:22):
two figures on the right andleft.
So for this show I added thatmiddle.
I think after Anne came to do agallery visit, I snuck that
lady in there.
But now I'm happy with them.
They're like a little clan.
So if I do have a piece layingaround too long, I paint over it
(41:46):
.
I don't keep work like a lot ofartists do.
If it doesn't sell and it'swith me for two years, it's a
new painting.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's fair game and I'm noting that twos and threes
is sort of an important thingfor you.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Increasingly, I'm coming out of my solitary phase.
I think that's why that one wasimportant to me, because I did
singular figures for a long timeand are the three-dimensional
figures?
Speaker 1 (42:20):
are those just grouped in threes and twos by
coincidence, or do you see themas triptych-type pieces?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
I love when they're all together.
So any combination.
I think we did that justbecause, like in a curatorial
sense, it worked to have thegroupings they do like to be
together.
I will say that and do you playBarbie with them.
Yeah, she's a little lowly overhere on the right.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
She's really quite fabulous, and I mean you said
that, you.
I mean, do you create a contextfor them as well, like you used
to in the Barbie days, or arethey just more separate figures
imbued with their own?
Speaker 4 (43:10):
I really do them quickly and I'm not a formal
seamstress I whip, stitch, andso I'll just start whipping
around things and adding, andthen, if they're sitting for a
week, I'm like, oh, she needsthis trim on the skirt or her
beads, or what is going on here.
Oh, this purse needs fringe, oh.
(43:32):
And so I listen to a lot ofworld music, or music from all
around the world when I'm makingthese, and so I think that is
influencing some of themculturally, but they really just
kind of make themselves in someways.
I don't think about it too muchuntil, like the paintings,
(43:55):
towards the end I'm like, oh,those beads don't work,
something like that, wow becausethey really are.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
When I think of it again, I can't get this Barbie
thing out of my head because I'mjust thinking of, like the
Barbie dream house and theselook so great with your
paintings.
I mean, pick any one of theseup, that's a painting, right?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
so they almost need to go together a little show,
yeah so if you buy a page, Iwill give you a little discount
on a figure, just like.
Look what happens.
I'm getting away from the mictoo, but you know it's like when
they're super like the shadowof this.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It's like a little diorama.
Didn't you want me to insertmyself in your work?
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Yes.
I actually love that.
When you said the shadow and,as a matter of fact, this figure
, that's marvelous.
It is marvelous.
Okay, well, we'll see whathappens.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, we've gone about 45, so should we open it
up for some Q&A.
Are there questions?
Because if not, I'll just keepasking the questions.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I've got a question, oh good, great, continuing on
what we're talking about.
My name is Vivian and justseeing your doll up against your
painting, have you thoughtabout actually doing more
three-dimensional with yourpaintings by applying one of
your dolls onto it?
Speaker 4 (45:28):
I did.
I did one day try that and Iwas uncomfortable with that
texture for some reason that Idon't know yet, so I may try it.
I think, making the for therecycle art fair, I made a giant
(45:48):
skirt and the whole ensemblewas out of recycled fabrics and
I think that was essentially myknow, my large version of these,
and I'd like to do more of thatlike large ensembles, more like
Nick Cave's sound suits.
That's my hero, nick Cave.
(46:10):
I can't believe you know NickCave sound suits.
He has some right now inChicago made out of ice and he
just posted them and he saidhurry and come see these because
they're gonna melt.
Oh yeah, oh, how cool.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah, and they're, they're deconstructing yeah, so
he had a show at the Guggenheimlast year.
I think it was that I saw.
And I also saw in Chicago theretrospective.
I didn't see the Chicago show,I saw the one that was at what's
the school?
It's Stanford.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
University.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
He had a show at the Stanford Museum a few years back
.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
If you want to look him up, nick Cave, not the
musician.
A lot of times I'll say NickCave and people are like, oh,
dark clothes, Nick Cave themusician.
I'll say Nick Cave and peopleare like, oh, dark clothes, nick
Cave the musician.
He's an extraordinary artistout of Chicago and he has an
entire warehouse.
Imagine this, eight feet tall.
Yes, that's what I want to do.
(47:10):
I don't know how to translateit.
I mean, it's been taking meyears to translate just to four
by six with the paintings.
But I think, vivian to your I.
I think not so much in thepaintings, but I want these to
be big a room.
Oh, and is martha here?
Yeah, so a woman I met at theopening named martha.
(47:32):
She said what about if you madean ensemble that resembled the
figure of each painting and youhad them shown with the
paintings, and it would be likea fashion show.
People would be walking through.
And then I would have my music.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Well, that's my Barbie dream house.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
It's all back to Barbie, really.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
But it would be a fabulous runway, isn't that?
Speaker 4 (48:01):
I know Because being in the fashion show at the
Recycle Art Fair.
Have any of you been to theRecycle Art Fair?
It is so fun and it was so funto embody this and walk down and
be wearing it, so I'm reallyexcited about the scale, but the
armature I'm not a natural withmetal or wood, so I'll have to
(48:24):
figure out how to get thatMannequins baby oh yeah, big.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Barbies right, that's what they all need.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
Oh gosh, where do you find them now?
We used to get them out of thegarbage in.
San Francisco, but large-scalemannequins, that's, you know,
life-size mannequins.
I mean, we'll get back to that.
I do have a seamstress bustfull-size in my studio that I
(48:54):
built, the piece I made for theRecycle Art Fair, and I'm about
ready to start another one, butI could see these taking a year
to do each one.
Sure, yeah, good question,though.
Thank you for asking Any otherquestions.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh yeah, what is the?
Speaker 5 (49:12):
relationship between your backgrounds and your dreams
.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Ooh, I'm going to repeat the question so that my
other listeners what's therelationship between the
background and your dreams?
Speaker 4 (49:26):
I think it has to do more with my waking life.
I haven't dreamt much for manyyears.
I used to as a younger person.
So my literal dreams, unlessI'm just not remembering, and it
comes through.
They're very dreamlike, some ofthe backgrounds.
(49:47):
I think that's more how Iperceive one aspect of the world
in the waking life.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Say a little bit more about that.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
I mean you talked about?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I mean, I know you talked earlier about the fires
here, so that was definitelypart of your waking experience.
And then earlier you mentionedpeople who were impacted by the
world, and so how wouldsomething like that and not to
put you on the spot there, justlike if there is something that
jumps out at you how wouldsomething like that, and not to
put you on the spot they're,just like if there is something
that jumps out at you, how wouldsomething is?
(50:23):
It is?
there a landscape that I mean Isee some what could be construed
as a horizon line.
You know that almost looks likedividing water and land, but I
understand the question.
It's really interesting becausethey do have a very kind of
dreamlike quality they don'talways have a ground that
they're standing on.
They're kind of floating inspace.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Right?
Well, they're abstract figuresin an abstracted landscape.
They're not necessarilytethered to their physical
ground.
Here I'm increasingly removing.
In fact, most of them don'thave feet, right?
Oh yeah, no, that's not true.
(51:06):
The one in the back with thosefancy pants has shoes oh, are
those still good?
And here this flora piece hasshoes, but they're very small.
But that's part of it.
For me the work is not entirelydreamlike, but it's not
entirely here, but it's veryvisible to me as something in
(51:29):
present time here, so it's thein-between space.
Yeah, liminal space.
I used to use that before, itwas hip and now I don't like to
say it as much.
But the work really is aboutthe liminal space and the
qualities of transport throughthat.
The piece in the back, maybe toanswer the question more
(51:52):
specifically, it's called well,the Space Between, it's called
well, the space between, andthat is a new piece that is for
me, speaking to our desire toconnect and the space between
that keeps us from doing thatfor various reasons.
Um, and the one figure on theleft has the wing, so there's
(52:26):
like connecting to a mythicalworld.
The figure on the right isreaching out, so that's an
example of how it might beresponding to the world.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
So let's stay with that piece for a minute.
So just with that piece.
It seems like you're trying toexpress something.
You know that somebody tried toreach out another figure who
has sort of an ethereal quality.
You mentioned a wing Like isthat something that you were
grappling with emotionally?
And then you just put it onpurpose?
Speaker 4 (52:57):
Oh, no, not at all.
So this is all I'm basicallycoming up with it now, almost um
, no, really I don't.
They just come about and, asI'm looking at it and I have
thought a little bit about whatit meant, um, and that's how I
got the title, but no, it's notsomething I'm ever conscious of.
(53:19):
These figures come about andthen I assign some type of
narrative for them for the sakeof showing work and selling it.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So if the convention wasn't to name it and the
convention wasn't to talk aboutit so that somebody else would
get it, you wouldn't need tohave made up all that stuff you
just said well, I didn't make itup.
Speaker 4 (53:44):
Well, I mean, I mean I, I well, let me reframe that.
I think there's sincerity in it, but it it's not really as
important as the peace.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Well, that's what I meant to say was that the peace
lives for you as it is, doesn'trequire an explanation, it comes
through you, it happensIncreasingly.
Speaker 4 (54:13):
I find the titles difficult.
I used to love naming them andnow I really struggle with it
Because it narrows the meaningof it for me.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Totally got it.
Speaker 4 (54:28):
And, as a matter of fact, I think maybe even the
viewer.
Now, what are some of thesecalled Conjuring?
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Conjuring, conjuring Displaced Boat woman.
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Well, displaced is literal.
I mean, I'm thinking and seeing, hearing about displacement all
the time and feeling for that,all the time and feeling for
that.
So after I saw him in thisstate, this figure, I just knew
(55:06):
that's what it was.
So that one was a little easier, and both of them, that was
also easier.
These two I had taken one ofthe sculptures I make these
boats out of bark in my studioand then I'll put dried flowers
in them and I will take them tothe Santa and sending them down
(55:31):
with a prayer.
And I usually take one of theseto stand by.
And as soon as I got back afterdoing multiple boat launches, I
just went in and made thispiece and I'm like she's the
(55:52):
boat maker.
Did I say boat woman, boatwoman?
Oh, I think I meant boat maker,but either way, she's about
boats.
But so that was infused.
I was like, oh yeah, I'm a boatmaker, I just went and did that
and this was sort of aninspiration.
(56:15):
So was she a self-portrait?
Not at all.
She just was part of the groupbut I hadn't made her yet cool.
Well, any last questions orcomments.
They're so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
I just have to say that first comment is that they
are so beautiful make sure thatgets on the podcast.
Speaker 5 (56:39):
They are so beautiful , oh make sure that, oh yes, and
I work with wax and I know howhard it is and you say you're
untrained, but you, you master,I think, the ability to use that
um technique and so um thatability to layer and take away
right.
And then one more comment I love, I love is I'm here on
(57:00):
Wednesdays with Ann and she cameback from your studio visit and
she was also just and she saidthat your floors in your studio
are an art piece.
Yeah, and if only we could havethose floors in your house.
Speaker 4 (57:16):
Well, I can't claim all the credit for those, so the
property is very old andthere's been multiple artists in
that space.
But it's partly why I lovebeing there, because it has all
that history and layers andtexture You've added to it for
sure, Thank you.
Thank you guys so much forcoming and being such a great
(57:40):
audience.
Yeah, thank you guys so muchfor coming and being such a
great audience.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, thank you.
Anything else?
Speaker 4 (57:51):
and if anyone wants to talk with me about a specific
piece, I'll hang around for alittle bit.
Feel free to.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
All right, that's a wrap.
Well, thanks for joining ustoday.
Please like and follow us onartstormingorg, where you'll
find a list of our shows, atranscript of this episode with
links to the guest page, as wellas our other projects.
Artstorming is brought to youand supported by ArtBridge and
listeners like you.
Look for us on your favoritepodcast platforms.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.