ArtStorming the City Different: Sienna Luna

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Sienna Luna, a Santa Fe-based artist, discusses her artistic journey and the influences of her New Mexican heritage on her work. She describes how she overcame the vulnerability of identifying as an artist and committed to her craft, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

Music for ArtStorming the City Different was written and performed by John Cruikshank.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ever wonder what makes really creative people
tick?
Where do their ideas come from?
What keeps them energized?
What kinds of things get intheir way?
Is their life really as muchfun as it looks from the outside
?
Hello, I'm your host, liliPierpont, and this is
ArtStorming, a podcast about hownew ideas come to life and
become paintings, sculptures,plays or poems, performances or

(00:25):
collections.
Each episode I'll chat with aguest from the arts community
and explore how the mostcreative among us stare down a
blank canvas or reach into thevoid and create something new.
Today, I'll be art-stormingwith painter Sienna Luna.
As you'll hear in the early partof this episode, I first got to

(00:46):
know Sienna when I was firsthere in Santa Fe about eight
years ago.
Over the years I've seen heroccasionally at art openings and
I've always loved her sweetdisposition.
And when I saw she was having ashow at the Bobby Beals Gallery
, I wanted to surprise her andsay hello and see how her work
had progressed over the lasteight years.
Well, I was the one who wassurprised.
I mean, I guess it's been eightyears, but her work has really

(01:08):
matured and I am so proud of her.
So I asked her to do an episodeon the spot and I'm so glad I
did.
I loved this conversation and Ithink you will too.
Okay, so I am here with SiennaLuna.
Is that your formal name?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
That's not your formal name because you have a
different last name, don't you?
Yeah, so my name, my full name,is Sienna Padilla, heinemann,
luna.
So Padilla is my mother'smaiden name, heinemann is my
dad's name and Luna is mymother's last name, which is the
name that I started using whenI basically when I moved out of

(01:46):
the house when I was 17.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay.
So I mean I know you as SiennaLuna, but I wasn't sure if that
was like an old plume orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, exactly my secret identity.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, well, and so what I want to just start by
saying is that it's so much funfor me to have you on this
program because I feel like I'vebeen watching you.
Believe it or not, it's beeneight years.
I know it's wild.
So I met you because you cameto babysit for a friend of mine
who had a child and was stayingwith me at the house, and I

(02:16):
guess I met your mom at a bookclub and she and I were in a
book club together and when Ihad this conundrum like oh my
God, I've got this personvisiting with a kid, what am I
going to do?
And your mom offered you andyou walk through the door with a
sketchbook and colored pencils,which was great because I think
the child was three or so atthe time and you guys forged a

(02:38):
fast friendship and so we hadyou several times to come visit.
But over the course of that Igot to see your artwork kind of
unfold and I bumped into youagain, most recently at your
very own show at Bobby BealsGallery and um.
So it's just so much fun towatch this progress.
If you have, I've been to oneof your other shows, I think you

(03:00):
know.
I guess it was pre-COVID, whenyou had it at um, uh, what was
something that sort ofconsignment clothing store?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
oh, right, yeah, you came to.
That was my first solo show, um, at artifact.
Artifact, which is on bakastreet, right, yeah, they have a
a cool little like galleryspace at the back of their store
.
Um, and that was through Ibelieve it was through Curate
Santa Fe, which I'm actuallyworking with them again next

(03:26):
month.
Oh, great as well.
For the first time since abouteight years ago, when we worked
together for that first soloshow.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
So what?
I guess what's fun for me isthat obviously you were already
a blossoming artist when I firstmet you, but tell me how it's
gone for the last eight years.
Have you been able to devoteyourself full time to your
artwork?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, so when you met me, I was pretty fresh to Santa
Fe and I was really interestedin starting to do my artwork
more.
I also learned how to dographic design, so that was kind
of my bread and butter and Iwould take odd jobs here and
there, like how we ended upgetting to hang out with each
other through babysitting and Ithink that I really committed to

(04:15):
my artwork around COVID.
I know this is a pretty commonthing for people, where they
were able to lean into theirpassions when they had all of
this extra free time.
And basically it came around tonobody really needed graphic
design at that time becauseeverybody was kind of slowing
down or shutting down theirbusiness.
They didn't need someone todesign a logo for them or a

(04:38):
website or whatever.
So I took that time to starttrying to sell my work.
I became a little bit moreaggressive with it and I did
have representation before that.
I've been represented by KeepContemporary downtown for about
seven or eight years.
But I really wanted fine art tobecome my bread and butter

(05:01):
instead of graphic design kindof being my main, the way that I
was primarily spending my days.
I knew that it was time for meto start focusing on my artwork
more, and so I started pushingmyself.
I knew I needed to push my skill, I needed to push my
understanding of form and layoutand all of these things, and I
knew that I wanted to take arisk on myself.

(05:23):
I felt like there was somethinginside of myself that needed to
be illustrated.
You know, and I had always feltthat feeling, but I think it's
really vulnerable, um, whenyou're creative, to say I'm an
artist, you know it's like oneof the biggest hurdles.
And once you get comfortablesaying that and owning that and
everything that it comes withand um, then you know you really

(05:47):
start to believe in yourself.
Or at least I did for myself.
When I started to put myselfout there more confidently, um,
I saw my work start to growinteresting.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
And so what was that internal dialogue like for you?
I mean, like can you sort ofplay, act sort of both sides of
that conversation?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
yeah, I think that there, that there, you know,
there's like I at least felt.
You know, like I'm trying tothink of the right word, I
apologize, no, I guess it'simposter syndrome.
Oh yeah, where I did go to acommunity college to learn a
little bit about, you know, formand figure, and that's how I

(06:27):
learned about graphic design.
But I'm primarily self-taughtand so I felt intimidated owning
that title of artist.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Because you had a conversation that an artist was
somebody who had gone throughall the preliminary steps of
learning how to do things orlike what was what?
What made you discredit this,this thing that you knew you had
this talent inside you, or atleast an urge.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Totally.
Um, I think that you know,because it is just a vulnerable
space to hold and to say I am anartist, this is what I do.
You have to have confidence inyourself.
So it was once I found thatkind of seed where I realized I
would rather try and push myselfout there and completely and
totally fail than have nevertried and put myself out there.

(07:19):
And I've gone through differentphases in my life where I felt
that when I felt brave enough tostart studying art even though
it was just in a communitycollege, it wasn't anything
crazy I kind of denied that partof myself as I became a young
adult where I wanted to find,you know, a smart job, something
like that, that was a goodcareer choice or whatever.

(07:41):
And I just realized that I amone of those people.
I'm a diehard artist.
I can't help it.
I, whenever I meet other artists, I immediately know it.
I see it in the way that wespeak, in the way that we see
the world, in the way that weinteract with people, like and
once you make that realization,you're like okay, I need to put
this time into this thing,because it's going to take way

(08:04):
more time, way more effort, waymore balls.
Pardon me for um puttingyourself out there because it is
such a competitive field.
It's an ego driven field.
Um, it's a field that peopledon't technically need quote
unquote to survive.
You know's a level of um, thepeople who are going to be

(08:27):
buying from you are comfortable,and you have to find those
niches of collectors.
And you know playing that lineof how do you make work
attainable for people, how doyou make it accessible?
Because I hate the idea thatart is only for people who can
afford it.
Um, you know what is that fineline between surviving and

(08:48):
having value for your work andthen also, um, having value for
your community.
And I'm still trying to figurethat out.
I'm, I'm particularly interestedin getting, uh, more tuned with
my interest in murals.
Because of that reason, becauseof the accessibility component,
yeah, at least for me.

(09:08):
Growing up in Santa Fe, therewere different murals around
town that really struck a chordin me and I think that sometimes
people, they don't get theopportunity to go to museums
when they're growing up, they'renot raised around a lot of
artwork, they don't have apalette for it, and you start to

(09:29):
open up how expansive the worldis through art, you know, and
if a mural is for the communityand you get to ride by it every
day, it gives you a perspectiveon where you could be.
Yeah, you know it, just it.
It shows you that there's somuch that the world is like this

(09:51):
beautiful feast, you know haveyou seen that, um, that
documentary on the femalegraffiti artists?

Speaker 1 (09:57):
no, I haven't.
I can't think of the name of itat the moment, but I'll forward
it to you.
It's's amazing.
It's women in some country inSouth America, but also in New
York and in Brooklyn, and it'sall about a conversation that
they're having about thedemocratization of art and how
they got to it and how womenbroke into the field of public

(10:20):
art spaces and stuff like that.
Have you gotten involved withthe Lena Art Project at all?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
I haven't not specifically.
No, um, I do work with a coupleof other people locally and
we're starting to um look forwalls, we're starting to put
murals up.
Um, I've helped other peoplewith their murals and then I've
done some small ones on my own.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Probably the most public one would be at the El
Rey theater in Albuquerque, umyeah, albuquerque has got a huge
, uh, public arts or I guesswhat you'd call it graffiti arts
or whatever, whatever that wordis for totally yeah, they have
a very well organized kind ofgroup of people that are really
active in the community.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Um, and I was lucky enough to be able to do a
project there.
That was my first fully solokind of mural, um, so I was
really proud of of pushingmyself to do that and I
definitely want to keep pushingmyself to keep going bigger, to
keep taking, you know, the jumpof pushing myself to these

(11:21):
larger ideas.
Um, again, with that can failor maybe it won't turn out the
way that you hoped, but you'realways going to learn something,
you're always going to expandyourself.
You're you never know whoyou're going to meet, how
they're going to push you.
You know how you're going topush them.
You know just building thatcommunity.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Well, your work, the work that I saw at Bobby Beals
and that I know of your work, isit's so tiny and so intimate.
Which?

Speaker 2 (11:44):
is one of the reasons that.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Uh, I think you know we were having this conversation
simultaneously.
I was looking at your work atthe, at the opening, and
thinking to myself God, I'd loveto see this in egg tempura.
And I turned around and MichaelBurke, who works in egg tempura
, we're having about that sameconversation at the same moment
yeah, so you know.
I, because they're like little,almost like little altar pieces.

(12:08):
I can see them, just they, theybeg that.
Now that's not to say that eggtemper can't be done in a larger
format.
Sure, I can see how this, thestyle of your work, would lend
itself to very, very big, butyou're comfortable going from
little, little little to wallsize.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
That's pretty amazing yeah, I mean it's.
It's been a learning curve.
I feel pretty comfortable withit.
It's been more about umresources and also um, the more
big paintings that I paint, theless storage space that I have.
So I think I've been trying tofind that happy medium.

(12:47):
Um, the reason why the piecesfor this show were so small is
because Bobby Bobby Beals, whoum curated the show, um, we
started talking about the ideafor this show about two and a
half months ago.
So, to produce five paintingsin a short period of time, I

(13:11):
wanted to make sure that I wasable to imbue them with the
detail that I wanted, the levelof quality and craftsmanship
that I expect from myself, and Iknew that I could produce five
pieces in that period of time ifthey were fairly small.
Well, the beauty of that size.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Is that somebody like me who's bursting at the seams
with artwork?
I can find a place to stash alittle piece.
I can make a place for that.
It's harder when I fall in lovewith a piece that's too big for
my space.
It's a problem and it goes backto what you were talking about
trying to strike that balancebetween making something that

(13:52):
there's a demand for and youwere talking about it in a
slightly different way, but whenyou were saying that, it made
me think of this thing I sawtoday.
Apparently there's a newscientific study out that says
that and they can measure humanemotions and that the strongest
emotion that emanates from anyhuman being in terms of

(14:14):
vibrational frequency isauthenticity, and I love that.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I love that Because authenticity is.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
You know.
I think it's something that youknow.
I can spot it a mile away.
Most people probably can.
Yeah, I didn't know that, whichyou obviously are.
And that leads me sort of to mynext question, which was how

(14:45):
did you find your particularvoice and style and how did you
know it was yours?

Speaker 2 (14:51):
um, well, I would say that maybe that is one of um
the sources of luck I've had inmy career is that, while I've
had to grow my skill, I've had anatural style my entire life,
um, and I think that I'veexpressed my experiences through
my work, my entire life, and sofinding a voice for my work, um

(15:16):
, it felt like it was somethingthat naturally came, although I
do feel that, specifically withthis particular show, I did go
with a very vulnerable thematicline throughout each of the
pieces, in that it's about my,his, my familial history in New

(15:41):
Mexico and also during a timewhen I'm kind of mourning the
loss of my grandmother no longerliving in New Mexico, and it
was something that we did asshe's getting older, she needed
to be closer to more family.
She's in Arizona and it wasultimately the best decision.
But there was something there,and I feel like, if you're New

(16:03):
Mexican I've talked to a lot ofNew Mexicans about this that if
you're New Mexican, you feelthis really deep connection to
um, the land here and to theculture here, um, and there's no
other place that's quite likeit.
You know, it's its own littlebubble.
There's something reallyspecial and I'm biased because

(16:23):
I'm from Santa Fe, I'm from NewMexico, I'm from northern New
Mexico, um, but there'ssomething really special, and
I'm biased because I'm fromSanta Fe, I'm from New Mexico,
I'm from Northern New Mexico, um, but there's something really
special here, and I know thatwhenever I lived anywhere else,
I always felt like a piece ofmyself was missing, and when I
would come to visit New Mexico,I would mourn it when I would
leave, when I'd go home, um, andso I mourn that for her and

(16:43):
that she can't be in herhomeland in her final years, and
this was where she was born andraised as well yeah, yeah, this
is where she was born andraised and where she spent the
majority of her life Albuquerquenot Santa Fe, but just New
Mexico as a whole.
I think was it had a very deepconnection for her.
And so, you know, it's aboutmaybe what accepting what is,

(17:06):
what is versus what you hopewould be, um, and also
commemorating, like this, thissense of beauty that I received
from her.
You know, um, she's not someonewho had a lot of resources, but
she always made things sobeautiful, so special, um, and

(17:29):
something about that palettetransferred to me, and so I feel
a lot of gratitude to her.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
You know, yeah, yeah that's something I'm noticing
since the first season has takenplace.
Yeah, mostly in New Mexico withmexico artists, and obviously
it's come through in theconversations I've had with
native artists because they hadthat deep sense of lineage.
But it it was true of anybodythat I spoke to who grew up and

(17:58):
has generational ties to theland of an area yeah it's really
.
It's really.
It's very powerful for mebecause, as somebody who grew up
on the east coast and who'sbeen incredibly peripatetic,
I've lived in so many differentplaces and I don't have that
sense of rootedness.
I mean, I feel it more hereyeah, it called to you it did

(18:18):
call to me, and I think itcalled to me because when you're
, when you're rootless, yeah,the rootedness of the culture
here is really comforting.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
You know, there's something about that that's
really, really called to me Icould see that I felt that way
when I've gone to other placesor other countries, like um the
sense of pride and culture.
When I was in it, umspecifically in Venice for the
Benali uh about six years ago,um seeing how prideful people

(18:52):
were in their culture and theirfood and their language and
their music, it I felt likethere was kind of like a through
line, but culturally, betweenthe two.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
You know, in in that sense of pride and um self
within your, your culture so doyou feel like some of your
artistic um themes are are alsotied to the new mexico lineage,
more of a personal iconography?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I would say that specifically in this series of
paintings, it definitely a lotof these like images and styles
of artwork I saw as a child,like Retablos and Centarios and
things like that, where you'reseeing this work that's reveling
in spirituality and there'slike a very specific style in

(19:45):
which it's painted.
There's a very specific stylein which it's carved, and I
tried to kind of imbue certainimages with that in the series,
where it's like they're notspecifically made out of wood,
they're not specificallyvenerating saints or angels or
whatever, but there is thatheart of um, you know pride of

(20:10):
this place, some of the sharediconography I mean yeah hand and
the heart and the yeah, thesacred heart and things like,
things that you might see in aretablo totally the fact that
they're

Speaker 1 (20:19):
sort of have a, a flatness of, of the foreground,
you know there's, there's a kindof, which is again what I think
lends itself so well to eggtempura.
I'm so excited to see if youdecide to, to go that route.
I just think it would be reallyinteresting.
And I don't know, is eggtempura a technique that is used
by the traditional Spanishartists?
I don't, I don't know if it isor not.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
I'm not totally sure.
I started researching eggtempura a little bit.
Um, I'm meeting with Michaeltomorrow actually, um, and you
can mix egg into a lot ofdifferent things.
You can mix it into gouache, um, so I'm kind of curious to see
where it can go, how it can beplayed with.
Yeah, the egg is just a binderUm, and I have I'm familiar with

(21:03):
using like powdered pigmentsand things like that.
So I'm really curious to kindof see how I can mix egg yolk as
a binder with natural pigmentsor, um, I'm really curious about
using like earth pigments fromNew Mexico.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
I was just thinking that yeah, I was just thinking
that, because they're, you know,talk about a way to connect
with the land, totally connectwith being here, to use those.
And I mean, my goodness, you goout there and you look.
I mean, when I first came toNew Mexico, I remember going out
to Abiquiu and seeing thelandscapes that Georgia O'Keeffe
had painted and of course Isort of thought they were

(21:37):
stylized when I saw them as ayoung person in the museums or
whatnot.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
And you get out here and you realize no, that's
exactly the color.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean that you really are that color.
It's just, it's really whatit's mind-blowing.
So do you do?
Um, are there places that onecan go here in New Mexico and
collect earth pigments, or doyou have to get them through
regular means like store?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
um, I'm not totally sure.
You know, I I'm kind of a gofor it and see what happens kind
of person.
Maybe it's also that I haven'thad that formal education as
much that I do whatever I can toget the result that I want.
Um, and I have used like I'veused holy dirt, that's from
chemayo.

(22:23):
I've mixed that in with naturalpigments to make kind of like a
sienna brown color and itadheres to, you know, the
substrate and it binds, you know, like a regular paint would.
So I'm going to just go outthere and start sifting
different colors of sand, startexperimenting and playing and

(22:45):
maybe adding a little bit moretexture.
I'm really curious to do morekinds of landscapes and things
like that, and being able toincorporate the literal
landscape into the piece seemsappealing.
And coming back to this idea oflike energy, like you were
talking about, and how energyhas these vibrations, and it

(23:05):
tends to be that positive energytends to be high vibration,
negative energy tends to be lowvibration I'm curious to take
the vibrational rhythms of theland and somehow imbue them
literally into the paintings.
You know that sounds reallyinteresting.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
You know, that sounds really interesting.
Yeah, and so in terms of, likethe the um, the content of what
you're depicting, where, wheredo those ideas come from?

Speaker 2 (23:33):
um, so each piece kind of comes from a lot of
different places.
It depends I I love to read, Ilove to research, um, I keep a
long list of just random wordsand ideas and artists and things
I find inspiring and I ended upmaking all these weird
connections.

(23:54):
You know, like, in a lot of thepieces in this particular series
, the flowers are kind ofglowing, for example, and the
reason that they're glowing likethat is it's meant to represent
kind of how a bird or a bat ora bug, an animal that is seeing
ultraviolet light and is seeingall of these things that we

(24:16):
don't see, how those flowerswould kind of look to them, how
those flowers would kind of lookto them.
Um, because there's all thesemarkings on flowers, there's all
these patterns on flowers thatwe don't see with our eyes, that
animals that can pick up thisultraviolet light, they're
seeing all these like incrediblespectrum of kind of like neon,
incredible colors.
You know, yeah, um, and so I'mcurious about things like that,

(24:39):
about all these things that wecan't see.
But you know that energetically, we can often sense, well,
there's it reminds me of anotherthing, I mean when I'm
scrolling through it there'sthis other thing I saw recently.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
There was a man who had a fantastic like geode rock
collection, collected specialspecimen rocks and you know they
were all in this beautiful litcase.
But then there was this room,that a panel that he took us
through in the video and it wasanother room and it looked like
a bunch of sort of inert rocks,but then he turned on the black

(25:14):
lights, or whatever it is thatcreated what animals would see
when they see these rocks.
It is that created what animalswould see when they see these
rocks.
And it went from these likebland rocks to this like
psychedelic, flaccid, blacklightthings, and it would be so cool
if you could, like I was justthinking like, take the pigments
.
That are they.
You know, at first glance itlooks really, you know, mellow

(25:38):
and lovely.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
And then you turn on the blacklight and all of a
sudden the it's like lichen orsomething that's on there.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Whatever it is that picks up in the painting would
be so cool.
That's such a cool idea actuallyto put scales of lichen onto
the painting or something, orwhatever these minerals are,
yeah, when they're viewedthrough a particular type of
light, take on a quality that iscompletely different.

(26:07):
Actually, there's another guyI'm going to send you some links
, but there's a guy up in uhtaos.
There's a.
There's a contemporary artgallery up there and I'm you
know my brain my just notthinking of the name.
Why can't it's?
It's right in the on that maindragon house and there is a room
that you go into there and thisartist's work is on the wall
and you, you walk in and you seethe artwork and then they turn

(26:30):
the lights off and turn on theseother lights and they're like
these huge mandalas.
Oh wow, crazy psychedelic stuffyou need to see that too.
I'm gonna send you that linkplease do I.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I want it all, baby, I.
I love knowledge and just Idon't know there's.
There's something so great ifyou learn about something you
didn't know, like that morningyou were ignorant too, and by
that afternoon your whole way ofseeing the world has changed
because of just one article, ora picture or an artist that you

(27:03):
meet, you know.
It's like your reality can beexpanded so quickly by knowledge
, and it makes me excited.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
That's what's so cool about this sort of new
understanding?
I mean, it's a term that getsthrown around a lot, but this
whole idea of quantum reality,because oh, girl, don't get me
started.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Oh yeah, let's get started.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
I totally want to get started.
I mean, you're going to betalking to Michael tomorrow.
I mean, get ready.
But that whole idea of justthat, there is this, whether
it's metaphorical or literal,that one second you cross a
threshold and suddenly there'sthis whole new dimension that
opens up and that's, you know,again, that can be an emotion,

(27:46):
that can be, yeah, you know,intellectual, that can be
whatever it is, but I think thatthat's one of the things that
the artists that I've beentalking to have access to this
field.
You know this totally and andthat's where all this stuff
comes from, yeah, and you knowyou're a conduit for it totally,
I completely agree, and I thinkthat there's a reason why.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know, like there's this idea of the
collective unconscious, or youthink of um.
You know these images thatrepeat over and over again
through history.
You know, um, that always feellike they have meaning to the
viewer and they repeat, goingback all the way to like cave

(28:30):
paintings, these certain shapesand combinations and layouts
that really bond with the viewer.
You know, and it's like they'reimprinted in our, our mind,
without us really being able tounderstand where they come from.
You know, you don't have tolearn about them to know that
they're there yeah you know, thearchetypes

(28:52):
yeah, like, totally like you'rethinking, jungian archetypal
imagery, um, that it justconnects with the viewer's heart
or their soul, or whatever youwant to call it, and I think
it's through that collective,unconscious or subconscious,
where there's all these thingsthat we're kind of connecting to
, that we're not thinking aboutin the front of our mind, you

(29:17):
know, but they affect the waythat we are interacting with our
world.
I think it's why, you know,certain colors make us feel a
certain way.
Again, that comes back tovibrations as well.
But I just think that our, ourperception of the world is
affected by so many things thatwe don't even realize are coming
at us at all times.
And artists are able to maybehone in when they're in that

(29:40):
flow state and they're able topush something out of themselves
that is so organic, and I don'tthink it can be learned.
There's skills that you canhone, but whatever that natural
flow is, it's something that'scoming out of you in the most
natural way possible.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, and it can be all five senses I mean.
I think as visual artists.
Sometimes we tend to think ofit in terms of visual landscape
or visual world.
But you know, there there's ascent of smell that can ignite
oh yeah thing, or a sound ofmusic, or a bird song, or you
know the the feel of differenttextures that you're either

(30:18):
trying to convey or that arejust inspiring you.
I think that that's where itbecomes so psychedelic, right?
Yeah, definitely gets.
There's so many places you candraw.
One can draw from to get theseideas are you?
do you listen to music whileyou're painting?

Speaker 2 (30:35):
yeah, I listen to a bunch of different things.
I go through music, podcasts,um, audio books.
For this particular series, Iwas listening to Tyler the
creator's new work.
I just listened to it on repeatover and over and over again.
I tend to, when I'm doing likea specific painting or series,

(30:57):
I'll put together a playlist of,like you know, 50 songs and
listen to it over and over againuntil the series is finished.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
And how is it different the first time through
versus the 14th time through?
Or?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Um, I feel like it kind of lulls me into a trance
or something, um, where I knowthat when I start to hear
certain chords that it's timefor me to go back to that place.
And I think it also makes iteasier for me to kind of pull
out of that place when I don'twant to be there anymore, as I
turn the music off and then Ireturn back kind of to this

(31:33):
plane, you know, because there'sbeen other times when I've been
creating and I felt like I wentinto the work and then I just
didn't really reemerge until itwas finished, and that can be
kind of taxing, you know youneed to, for me at least, I need
to come in and out of thatspace to recharge.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Oh, that's interesting.
So there's, an inhale and anexhale process Totally.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
And you have a life partner right, I do so.
You're living with somebody, soit is.
I imagine it would be adifferent type of impact on your
relationship if you don't leavethat space.
Yeah, so, to be able toreconnect with other people and
to be social, you sort of feellike you have to come out of
that context and and so where doyou notice?

(32:19):
How do you know?
How do you know when you're inthat space or not in that space?
I mean, is there a visceralkind of sensation?

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, I feel like I'm not as contained in my body,
maybe, um, like I, and it feelslike I am hyper aware, like I
and it feels like I am hyperaware, but also very separate at
the same time.
It feels like, um, maybe I'mseparating from my body into

(32:49):
this place.
It's more expansive within themind, you know, um, because
there's so many rules attachedto the body and to the physical
form that don't apply to yourmind, you know, and to
imagination and to this organicway of creating, and so, by
maybe separating from my body,um, I'm able to reach that place

(33:10):
in a more genuine way.
And, um, I also just I havelike chronic, uh, pain that I
deal with sometimes and justhealth issues, and so I think,
also by being able to separateinto this other space, I'm not
held down by my physicality ormaybe what I'm feeling within my

(33:35):
physical vessel in the moment,you know.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Wow, yeah, I mean that's really interesting.
So I mean it's not justinteresting, it's just I'm sorry
that you have the physical painand how cool that you have a
way to give yourself some reliefby disconnecting from it
totally yeah, um, I think whenyou you're living with chronic
pain, it's something thatprobably a lot of people have to

(34:01):
do.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
It's like I refuse not to live a joyful life and to
, you know, succumb to physicallimitations.
You know, and I think that it'salso, if you live in pain, it
kind of makes it worse a lot ofthe time, especially if you're
in a situation where you have,like chronic inflammation or

(34:23):
something like I do, um, whereyou can't necessarily really do
anything about it.
You know, you kind of have tolearn how to navigate with it as
like a partner side by side toyou.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Um, what an interesting perspective, because
I mean to look at you, yeah,you emanate such joy.
I would never a million yearshave have pegged you for
somebody who is suffering withchronic pain.
I mean, you just don't havethat scowl, yeah, anywhere.
There's nothing scowly aboutyou that's really kind.

(34:57):
L Lili.
Thank you.
No, it's true, and it justmakes me appreciate all the more
, now that I know that, what adeliberate choice it is for you
to focus on the creation part ofyour being instead of the
limitation part of your being.

(35:18):
That's really inspiring, sienna.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
Um, it really does mean a lot,cause I, I mean, I, like I just
said, I, I do want to live ajoyful life.
You know that that's the mostimportant thing to me, um, in
this short life that that we allhave, you know, um, but it can

(35:43):
be isolating as well sometimes,because I think when people
don't know what's going onwithin you, um, sometimes it can
misunderstand you or you canfeel like somehow something that
, at least for me, me, I feellike this almost, um, like I'm

(36:03):
putting on a persona orsomething, even though I don't
mean to, because I want to livewith joy.
But inside, sometimes I'mstruggling so hard that it feels
like there's this duality ofbeing.
And how do you present who you,you truly, are, if you're
suffering while still beingjoyful?
And so I'm able to do thatthrough my work, I'm able to

(36:28):
take all these experiences andmaybe day-to-day hurdles that
I'm going over, and I'm able toimbue it in the work and
hopefully, connect is what Ihope to do.
And hopefully connect is what Ihope to do is that, if other
people are, they're feeling joy,they're feeling suffering,

(36:48):
they're feeling all of thesecomplex feelings that they'll be
able to pick up on that in thework and they will hopefully
feel held by it.
And I really appreciate that.
You said there was somethingalmost like an altar, that these
pieces kind of felt like altarsto you, because I've been, I've
been really thinking aboutaltars and these places that can

(37:10):
hold space for people.
I give gratitude every daywhere I talk to my ancestors,
where I ground myself, um, whereI feel like I can be very
genuine in, where I am, um.
I hope to give people thatthrough the work somehow, even

(37:34):
if I'm not doing it yet, it'ssomething I'm working towards.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well, you know, wow, I mean I think of also, you know
, altars as being a place wherewe can, where we make sacrifices
and you're sacrificing yourpain in order to transmute it
into something else.
And I think that the more youstart to feel real comfort with

(38:00):
bringing the pain, to feel realcomfort with bringing the pain
whatever is there, or grapplingwith it or struggling, I think
that's what's going to bring theauthenticity even more to your
work.
You're doing it anyway, but I'mjust saying that.
You know, I think that one ofthe things that happens as you
get older and I am older thanyou, but you know's that you you

(38:20):
sort of just come to terms withthe fact that this idea that
life was supposed to be one way,and you know, just like that's
out the window.
You know, it is what it is, andthen you realize that it's up to
us.
It's up to us each individuallyto to choose what, how, what
interpretation of it we're goingto give.
And so you're already in thepractice of choosing the way

(38:46):
that you're choosing and.
And yeah, I mean, I don't knowwhat else to say about that,
except that there is somethingyou know without wallowing in
the pain, yeah, to address itand to feel it and give other
people permission to feel theirs, yeah, is part of the
celebration of life, really.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Totally.
I think that that is what paincan bring you, so into your body
, in such a way that you canfeel every cell you know and, um
, it can give you this presenceof where you are and a gratitude
for life and also anunderstanding that this time

(39:30):
again, like I said, is so finiteand I think that's why it's
such a theme in my work is thiscycle of life and death and this
connection to this greater kindof living being.
That is all things you know.
It's something you become verycomfortable with when, maybe,

(39:51):
especially if you're likeyounger and you start to have
all these chronic issues, likeit's something your friends
aren't necessarily experiencingyet.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, you know, because you're kind of young to
be as as well versed in thisdichotomy of life and death, and
you know and not to say that itdoesn't happen.
But I mean I I became aware ofit because I lost my parents at
a very young age.
You know, there are variousdifferent things that can
trigger that.
And I guess chronic pain.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
that's another way in to understanding this duality
that exists, that can betranscended which is obviously
what you're working to do andare doing successfully is
transcending this dual nature,definitely yeah, I think that

(40:40):
having lost early in life I lostmy brother as well when I was
really young and I think havingthat understanding of somebody
is there and then they're not,and having to suss through that
with a really young brain whenyou don't really understand what
life and death is yet, it kindof does give you that root
within yourself of trying tounderstand it and work through

(41:03):
it in your mind, maybe earlierthan other people do.
That don't have you know losslike that at an early age.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Were you drawing when you lost your brother?
I mean, was that part of yourlife?

Speaker 2 (41:17):
I've just been creating my entire life.
Both of my parents are creative.
My mom was a living artist fora period of her life.
My dad is.
He has an incredible naturaltalent for art and was an arts
trader for many years.
Um, so I think that, justgrowing up with that palette

(41:38):
from an early age, there was,you know, music and art and
books and good food in my home.
You know, my dad is like he wasreally good at taking very
little and making it feel verydecadent, you know?
Um, so, like I, I feel verygrateful to both of my parents
that they expanded my palette inthese ways at an early age.

(42:01):
So I was always curious aboutart and creating and, um,
wanting to express myself in avisual way.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Did you?
Did you use it, though?
I guess what my question waskind of did you use it to to
work through the confusion orloss or whatever you couldn't
figure out about the loss ofyour brother Um?
Was that not necessarilysomething that was available to
you at that time?

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, I, I mean, maybe I did in a subconscious
way.
Um, at that time in my lifethere was a lot of different
changes going on.
There was a lot of losshappening there.
Well, there was a lot ofmovement, and so it felt like
there was a lot of compoundingexperiences that I kind of had
to start facing as an adult.

(42:48):
Um, that were all kind ofpacked very closely together,
and so it's like the loss of mybrother was kind of woven in
with a lot of other things.
Um, so being able to pull themapart, you know, it's kind of
like um threading a tapestry orsomething.
They're all so tightly woventogether that, um, I think that

(43:11):
through work, I'm kind ofreacting to these things as a
whole.
Maybe, yeah, Versus oneindividual loss or something.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Well, and my experience is also that these
things kind of happen in wavesover decades, Totally yeah, and
that you'll get a perception oneday that comes from an event
that happened years before, oneday that comes from an event
that happened years before andsuddenly it'll just kind of come
into into uh, relief and orinto perspective, and all of a

(43:41):
sudden there's a different takeon it.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, totally.
I think that the moreexperience you have, these
things, these experiences arelike little pieces of yourself
and they go dormant for a whileand then they'll come back in a
cyclical way, you know, whetherthey come up at certain times of
the year or when you're incertain places on the globe.

(44:04):
It's like they're waiting toreemerge and to be worked
through in a way where you'relike ready to see them.
You know, and they're they'resuch a vital part of what makes
you who you are that I alwaysfeel welcome.
When these experiences like comeback, I'm like thank you, you
know, like I feel like I knowmyself a little better and maybe

(44:29):
can connect to my parentsbetter, my better, my ancestors
who are no longer here.
You know, like there's thingsin my great, great grandmother
that my grandmother sees in me.
You know, like all while I wasgrowing up, she's like oh, this
reminds me of her, that remindsme of her, oh, you look like her
.
And to feel like these um,roots of these people in me

(44:53):
living in me, um, I feelgrateful and proud of it, but
also like when these memoriescome back cyclically, those
roots are in you, you know, andyou're able to just feel the
sense of like identity and selfand also like, maybe under like,

(45:13):
forgiveness of your parents andlove for your parents and for
the humanness that we're allconnected by.
I don't know, I feel like I'mkind of ranty, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
No, it's beautiful and, as you're talking, I'm
thinking about, and it justkeeps.
It just keeps unfolding andkeeps getting.
You know, every decade thatgoes by you know you have yet
another perspective and you knowthose cyclical things that
you're talking about.
I can relate to so much.
Totally have that experienceand I'm wondering so, when
you're working on, you knowyou're in this phase, you're in
this thing, and this idea orthis new point of view or new

(45:51):
frame of reference suddenlycomes up up.
Do you have a way of capturingthat?
Do you keep a notebook so thatyou know you might say, okay,
muse, or whatever, right, right,I need you to just sit there
for a second while I finish thisand then, or do you just hop
right over and address that?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
um, I would say that it's kind of a mixture'll.
I'll just write random littlethings that come to me in my
journal, um, or I would say, mysketchbook.
I don't keep like a, you'd say,a formal journal where I'm
writing every day or every week,um, but when memories come to
me or I think about something,like I smell something, and this

(46:29):
memory just comes past reallyquickly, I want to capture that
because I know that it'ssomething that's fleeting, um,
and that it's like this old, oldmemory that's not going to be
there for very long, um, but Ioften I'll sketch, or when I'm
reading something that kind ofmakes me think about a memory,
then I'll kind of try and writeabout what am I interconnecting

(46:51):
between these two subjects, like, what is the connecting line
between these two things?
It's going to become like avisual manifestation.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Right, and when you go back to those things, say you
know, say it's, you've scrolledaway and you've had that, are
you able to then recall?
Are your notes or scribbles, orwhatever you do with it to to
capture the yeah, sufficient totake you back to that place when
you come back to it?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
yeah, I would say so, um, because there's such
tangible memories.
It's like if I have thoselittle things that kind of
remind me of them, they comeback to me definitely, like
those visceral anchors.
Yeah, yeah, like, um, just likememories from childhood or like
going on specific adventureswith, like, my grandmother or my

(47:38):
dad or my mom, like thesethings, especially about this
terrain.
That's what's felt really alivein my memory since I've been
painting these five pieces.
Is, you know, memories ofnorthern New Mexico, going up to
, like Tierra Maria with mygrandma visiting the Luna side
of our family, my great auntsand great uncles, and what the

(48:02):
church looked like there, whatthe church smelled like there,
what the one bar in the middleof town, like the scraping of
the chairs and the way peoplegreeted my great uncle, you know
, because it's this small townand he was kind of like he'd
walk in, he was like the dawn,you know, and he'd flirt with
all these women and it's justlike these really specific

(48:24):
things, like the smell of likealmost like box wine on his
breath or the smell of pozolecooking and um I don't know well
, and those are such uniqueexperiences because I can tell
you, growing up in new york city, I don't have.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Well, and those are such unique experiences because
I can tell you, growing up inNew York City.
I don't have those kind ofthings, right.
So I mean, but say a little bitmore because it's so romantic
for you know, people sitting andlistening, wherever they're
listening and sitting, you know,describe a little bit more,
because it just piqued myinterest, like what specifically
about the church?
What specifically about thechurch?
Was it the smell of thefrankincense from the altar?

(49:01):
Or was it more specific to NewMexico?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Well, I would say I haven't been in a ton of
churches necessarily.
I've been in some of the reallyfamous ones in Europe, in New
York, but none of them smell thesame as the churches in New
Mexico.
I would attribute it one to thesmell of the candles.
There's kind of like this rosesmell.
I don't know if that's.

(49:25):
It might just be kind of like aCatholic church thing, but I
would say, specifically, themost unique scent that I get
from churches in New Mexico isthe smell of dirt, and a lot of
times there's dirt floors andthen there's also the adobe
walls, and so there's like thistemperature change when you walk
into a church.
That I think is reallyinteresting.

(49:46):
I'm not personally religious, Iwasn't really raised religious,
but I do find spiritualityfascinating, um, and I do find
it interesting how peopleinterpret that feeling of
spirituality and the iconographythat comes with it and the way
that people venerate thisfeeling by making these big
empty echoing spaces for thatfeeling, um, and all the art

(50:10):
that comes with it.
You know that it was.
You know, historically, the waythat a certain demographic of
people you know, ie poor peopleis the only time they really got
to see art in their life,except for, maybe, things they
made within their own home, youknow.
And so that expansive feelingof being able to see something

(50:31):
beautiful, um, it's in thesespaces and it's stayed that way
for hundreds or thousands ofyears.
And you can feel this likeenergetic change, this hushed
kind of feeling when you walkinto these places and there's
just something really specialabout that.
Even if you aren't Catholic orChristian or whatever, there's

(50:54):
just something to that, at leastfor me, that I think is really
sacred and beautiful, and I'veseen how it can hold people when
they have insurmountable painor loss or hardship.
They have to turn to somethingbigger than themselves, you know
, and these places can hold thatfor them, know they can go and

(51:16):
they can be really vulnerableand they can work through that
loss or feel hope, or cry out tothe heavens for help or
whatever it is, you know, andit's like a place that they know
they can always go and and itwill be available to them yeah,
I love that about the churchesin New Mexico.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
They're so accessible .
There's a different qualitythan going into a cathedral in
Europe where you know you havethe you feel really small.
Here you feel really hugged.
You know it just feels reallyintimate, like you were saying.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
And there's always the smell of piñon, which I
don't know if that you that'ssomething, that that you that's
something that that you um pickup on, and I don't mean
necessarily burning wood piñon,but just like the smell of
juniper, and piñon is somethingthat I'm very aware of here in
new mexico oh, definitely thatmakes me think of more like the
ferrito walk and, um, you know,the big bonfires and everything

(52:15):
that people are standing around,um, and that really specific
day, you know, right aroundchristmas when you go and you
walk this walk that people havebeen doing for such a long time,
you know, and the idea offeralitos even is like very
foreign to people until theycome here.
You know, it's basically onlyin new mexico, basically only in

(52:39):
santa fe, that you see them, um, and so that smell tell people
who might not know whatferalitos are.
Right, yes, okay, so feralito is.
Or some people call themluminarias.
My family says that is wrong.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
I don't know, I don't know, I'm not gonna well, after
you say what you're gonna say,because I I've always heard that
the fires were one thing.
My family says that is wrong.
I don't know, I don't know, I'mnot going to die on that hill
After you say what you're goingto say, because I've always
heard that the fires were onething and then the other.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, that's what I always thought too, but fernitos
are basically, they're littlepaper bags that have sand and a
candle in them, and theytypically line the edges of
walls, of the flat kind of roofsthat you see here along the
roads, and there's specificallya ferralito walk that happens

(53:22):
downtown on canyon road, whereall of the galleries are, and
the ferralitos cover all thebuildings and there's just this
almost like twinkling fairylight everywhere, um, and then
there's what I would callluminarias, which are the
bonfires, um, which arepositioned, you know, every
block or so, and there's peoplestanding around them.

(53:45):
There's people singing,laughing.
It's this very like communalfeeling.
Um, even though it does draw alot of tourists, I do feel
there's a very strong, uh, veinof locals that still come every
year to do the walk and to standaround and to catch up.
And, um, there's also like thisartistic element, because it is

(54:07):
around all the galleries that Ilove.
The galleries are usually openand there's people playing piano
and there's such a feeling ofwhat the holiday is in a more
ancient way than maybe a morelike consumer based, kind of
like contemporary idea of whatChristmas is or the holidays.
You know.

(54:28):
Yeah, that I really like andthat smell of pinyone and
juniper and stuff is supertightly like tied into that that
memory for me.
And like walking when I was,you know, really small, like
with my parents, with my brother, with a lot of our friends, my
parents would have these, likeyou know, big parties and stuff,

(54:50):
particularly particularlyaround those times, and that's
when we would, um, we would dothe walk, and so it's like it
brings back that really tangiblememory for me.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Yeah yeah, well, it's amazing for me to think of
somebody you know is being bornand growing up here and having
that is just like their.
I mean, I used to come visitwhen my mother moved out here in
the late 80s.
You know I'd come for christmasand it was the highlight of my
my visit out here in the late80s.
You know I'd come for Christmasand it was the highlight of my
my visit out here, and now thatI live here I've gotten to enjoy
it.
But you know, thinking of youas a little person growing up

(55:23):
and having that was yourChristmas and and you know
Indian market was and theSpanish market and all these
summer markets were like thatwas just the background of your
life.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
That definitely was in a big way, specifically
because of my father um, becausehe was, he was an art trader.
That was how he ended up in theseventies here, um.

(56:01):
My familial lineage that goesback multiple generations is on
my mom's side, um, and so my dadum was, so he fell in love with
the culture here the secondthat he came here and I can see
in him this really genuineappreciation for what Santa Fe
is.
You know, like he isn't here,but he has this deep love for
this place and it's neverfaltered, like once he came here
.
He's like this is it, this ismy place, and he was able to um

(56:25):
really express that love throughmeeting a lot of artists,
through invest, like trying toum I don't know like raise up
really young artists that he met, take a risk on them, and he
was doing this with not a lot ofresources himself.
You know he was just like avery big risk taker and would

(56:45):
just kind of take like theplunge.
You know to go.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
That's where you get your risk taking.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, probably.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
I feel like I have a lot in common with my dad in
that way yeah, probably, I feellike I have a lot in common with
my dad in that way.
Yeah, well, you are absolutelythe quintessential Santa Fe
artist.
No, it's great.
It's really wonderful, and I'mso glad you got to be a part of
this series yeah, thank you somuch.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
It was an honor to um , you know, be able to speak
with you and I had a really goodtime.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Me too, yay Yay.
Thank you so much Thank youWell.
Thanks for joining us today.
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(57:36):
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