Michael Brandt | Federal Prison, Welding & the Power of Redemption - Ash & Iron

Episode Transcript
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Todd (00:00):
Welcome to episode three of Ash and Iron.
I've got with me our thirdguest and I'm really excited
about this guest sitting infront of me right now.
His name is Michael Brandt andI said that right.
Yes, is that correct?
And I know nothing about thisguy, which is so cool, because
the last two guests I've kind ofknown I don't know you, which
is awesome.

Michael (00:20):
Yeah, welcome, stranger .

Todd (00:22):
Yeah, welcome to my house.
Yeah, thank you.
So all right, yeah, You'veheard.
You've listened to the othertwo episodes, I'm assuming?

Michael (00:29):
Not in totality, okay, just bits and pieces.

Todd (00:32):
Yes, okay, so yeah.
Basically, this is your episode.
I want you to be able to have aplatform to tell your story,
but I'd like to start off, justfor my sake and for everybody
else's sake.
Who is Michael Brandt?

Michael (00:44):
So Michael Brandt is a convicted felon, a drug addict,
an alcoholic, and that's been inrecovery for a long time, and
he also owns a small mobilewelding and custom fabrication
shop by the name of Garage BoundLLC in Chattanooga.

Todd (01:01):
Chattanooga.
Were you born and raised inChattanooga?

Michael (01:03):
I was not born and raised in Chattanooga.
I was born somewhere in OregonI don't really remember which
town Cottage Grove, oregon orsomething crazy like that and
then I transplanted here afterbeing released from federal
prison in 2006.

Todd (01:17):
Like we're just going to get right into it.

Michael (01:20):
Where do you come from and why are you here, right?

Todd (01:23):
all right, so okay, I guess let's start there.
Um federal prison.
Yeah, everything was a lot offun until it wasn't okay, so can
let's let's talk about theleading up to that.
How did, how did what'stranspired to get?

Michael (01:42):
you there?
Oh sure.
So, um, I probably need to goback to when, like age 10, when
my parents divorced.
Do that?
So, uh, age 10, my parentsdivorced and I lived with mom
and my two sisters and dadwasn't in the home.
He was, I don't know, 20minutes away or so, and, um,
just just due to like my momdoing mom stuff and my dad doing

(02:02):
dad stuff, you know, I hadentirely too much free reign.
So, from like the time I was 10on, you know, mom was working on
getting, uh, going to school tobe a flight attendant, you know
, and dad was building abusiness in another city, and so
, really, it was me and my twosisters and it was me going to
do whatever I wanted to do allday long, as long as I was back,

(02:23):
like some, somewhere close todark, like, like, um, you know,
I didn't always wake up early onenough to get to school, to
catch the school bus, so I'dtake off on my skateboard and
sometimes make it to school,sometimes not make it to school,
all the time stealing moneyfrom my mom's purse to go play
video games before trying to goto school, if I made it or not,
still, you know.
So, um, I always hung out.

(02:44):
I was always the youngest onein every group, right?
So youngest, uh, among mysiblings, youngest among my
friends, and so when you're 10years old and you're hanging out
with the high school kids, youdo a high school kids do, and
sure that was like doing trickson our our, on our BMXs and
skateboards in the post officeparking lot and smoking pot.
And you know, we lived in acommunity where there was a lot

(03:05):
of Hispanic people.
So I grew up in Hispanicprimarily Hispanic Hispanic
community and it was real easyto get alcohol.
So we would go to a store andoffer somebody to buy us some
beer and then we'd go like getdrunk, looking at Playboys in
the Blackberry bushes wherewe're doing our BB gun fights
and passing out, and then wakingup like, oh shit, I got to go
home.
So it was a lot of thatcigarette smoking, just a lot of

(03:30):
everything from a very youngage that never really stopped
until I went to prison, when Iwas 21 too.

Todd (03:36):
Okay, so 10 years old, you've got absolute free reign.
You're basically your ownparent, like you're your own
adult.
Am I kind?

Michael (03:44):
of correct in assuming that to agree to that, because
everybody else, all theresponsible adults, were putting
, just from my perspective,we're off doing their own thing,
sure yeah, so what was that?

Todd (03:54):
what was that school experience like at that age,
like when, like you said,obviously you had trouble
catching the bus some mornings,things like that.
But what about in, about inschool?

Michael (04:04):
In school was fine.
I mean, I liked going to school, I liked PE, you know, and I
had a lot of friends, and youknow it was a mixed group of,
you know, caucasian and Hispanic, and all that was going good
until about fifth grade and theystarted clicking up in these
little gangs and then, beforeyou know it, they're wanting to
kill each other.
I'm like just playing soccerlast summer.
What's the problem, you know?
I mean I just didn't understandthat whole gang mentality.

(04:27):
Thankfully I never got intothat, because right around that
same time I ended up going tolive with my dad.

Todd (04:33):
Okay and all right.
So your dad was 20 minutes awaythe whole, pretty much the
whole time yeah, pretty much.
And then you ended up moving inwith him.
Yeah, what was that transitionlike?

Michael (04:45):
It was different because when I moved in with him
, then right after that we gotmy step siblings that came down
from Washington state and it wasthe same thing as I was
experiencing in Oregon.
You know, older group of kidsdoing the older group of kids
stuff smoking cigarettes,smoking pot as as often as we
could get our hands on it, youknow.
So it was like I remembersmoking pot, you know regularly.
Uh, the school bus came in themornings, like in fifth grade.

(05:09):
You know I'd get on the bus andthe older kids are coming.
What's wrong with you?
You can't be doing this, youknow, and I'm like what's up and
I don't have no problems.

Todd (05:15):
You know, yeah, yeah, interesting, all right, so you
move in.

Michael (05:23):
You move in with your dad, how old were you when you
moved in with him?
Fifth grade, what's that?
12?
, 12?
, okay.

Todd (05:28):
So you went from 10 to 12.
12, you move in with dad, walkme through sort of from there
until you ended up in prison.
What was growing up in thatenvironment like so?

Michael (05:42):
I have a different perspective of it now as an
adult, but I really had aproblem with female authority
and that came with the newstepmom.
You know she was like and wedidn't get along and I was into
all the trouble I could get into.
So that automatically createdfriction between us and she's
like your dad's working his assoff, doing everything he can to
provide you a good home andyou're just being a damn

(06:03):
knucklehead and you know Ididn't see it that well at the
time.
She was the enemy at the time,you know.

Todd (06:08):
Yeah.

Michael (06:09):
So like.
But I did some good things.
You know, dad installed a lotof really good things in me.
Like you know, you're nevergoing to get ahead by working
for someone else.
You know you can do a hustle.
So, like, I started mowinglawns and weeding and, you know,
the first summer I made enoughto get a self-propelled
lawnmower and a brand new weedeater.
And you know, I'd makeChristmas trees.
I'd take the holly trees apartand make Christmas trees and go

(06:30):
sell them, you know, forChristmas time.
So I was quite endeavorous andthat those early teachings, you
know, basically, you know,taught me that I'd own my own
business someday.
Not knowing what that would be,you know, sure, but I just knew
that I wouldn't work forsomeone else the rest of my life
.
But still, you know, I was indrinking, I got caught stealing.
I went to juvie, I got infighting, drinking and smoking

(06:52):
and just whatever I could getinto.
So that was always up and down,whether I was grounded or not.
I remember one summer I spentthe entire summer in my bedroom.
You know I had to visit myfriends from a second story
window and it was hot and Iwrote a lot of sentences.
I will think before I react, Iwill think before I react, and
that shit never settled ineither until I was like 25.

Todd (07:11):
Yeah, all right.
So it's interesting.
Right Because it sounds like inall of that there was a
definite entrepreneurial spiritin there.
I heard some like RobertKiyosaki type vibes.
Do you know who that is Rich?

Michael (07:26):
dad, poor dad yeah.

Todd (07:28):
So there's kind of some stuff like that, and I love that
you brought that up, because Ithink a lot of times it's easy
for people to hear someone'sstory, hear just the negatives
and not understand that it'swhen you're telling a story like
, yes, you're sharing thedramatic parts, because that's
the parts that really hit home,but there is almost always

(07:49):
really good stuff in there.
You know, and I love that yougave that some attention Outside
of just like the hustle and allthat what are some of the other
things that you feel like heinstilled in you that, like you,
still carry forward with youtoday?

Michael (08:04):
Always two sides to every story.
I remember hearing that a lotbecause of through the divorce.
You know, um, uh, you know hardwork ethic.
You know you'll never get aheadby working for someone else, um
, and just just he's.
You know to treat people kindly, you know, and do do the right
thing by people.
A lot of that stuff I wasimplanted in me earlier by both

(08:26):
parents, you know, but a lot ofit went away when I got so
selfish, wrapped up into drugaddiction that I didn't care
that I was selling substances topeople that destroyed their
family.
And I've got plenty ofcircumstances and instances that
I participated in that kind ofbehavior that you know I really
suffered a lot of guilt from fora lot of years.

Todd (08:44):
Yeah, I can't even imagine trying to like navigate through
all that, especially at a youngage.
The way that you got started init it almost seems like it
created like a sense of normalcyin something that shouldn't be
normal.
Yeah, you know so all right.
You know so all right.
So your, your teen years, I'massuming into your early 20s is

(09:07):
where it seems like you keepkind of going down a rough road.

Michael (09:11):
Yeah, so like it wasn't all bad, you know, like when.
So like a lot of it had to dowith the tension between my
stepmother and I, and now I knowthat most of most I'd say at
least 80% of that is the faultof myself.
You know, at the time I didn'tsee it like that but I ended up
having to like leave my dad andstep mom's home because I was

(09:32):
actively plotting her death andyou know, dad had construction
equipment.
I'm like, fuck, I know how torun that back.
Oh, I could like knock her offand go bury her in the field,
kind of stuff.
And I'm like this is craziness.
I got to get out of here, youknow if I'm feeling like this.
So we had some really greatneighbors, you know, that didn't
have like they would, they'daccept people for more of who

(09:54):
they are and what they're into,more than my family would do.
Like I couldn't go roll a jointand sit on the front porch and
smoke a joint.
But you know, in this otherfamily you know that was not the
worst thing that people coulddo.
You know what I mean.
So and you know, so we got into, like you know, drug dealing,
just pot.
You know, selling pot back andforth, and then we got into meth
, and that was a lot of fun fora while, and so then it was

(10:17):
always meth or pot, you know.
And then from then, my drug ofchoice became methamphetamines.

Todd (10:23):
Sure.
So, and I'm always curiousabout this and I hope you don't
mind me asking I've alwayswondered, like, how do you go
from pot to meth?
And I know that sounds likesuch a dumb question, probably,
but like, for example, like inmy earlier years I've smoked pot
.
I've never even seen meth inperson outside of just like

(10:43):
movies and TV shows.
So it's like, was somebody?

Michael (10:47):
around you doing it, or how does that work?
Definitely external influence.
So you're going to be who youhang out with.
So if you're hanging out withfolks who smoke pot and snort
lines and meth, your chances ofdoing that are probably pretty
great.
So that's how it happened forme so you get into that.

Todd (11:05):
I'm assuming it's making you money to some degree.

Michael (11:07):
To some degree it was helping me stay in drugs.
I'm like I'd have enough to doand sometimes I'd get behind and
have to sell extra because I'ddone consumed all of it at that
point in my life.

Todd (11:23):
I can't imagine having that kind of stress onto my life
in those years, like that'sgotta be crazy.
Oh, that's nothing how itturned out, though.
No, all right, let's walkthrough that if you don't mind.

Michael (11:34):
Yeah, so after I lived with several families, you know,
in our little neighborhood,then I decided it'd be a good
idea to move back up toWashington State to be with my
mom.
And so I moved up to Washingtonand I was living with my mom
and she and I again didn't getalong, the whole female
authority kind of thing.
And you know, my perspective atthe time is that I was a
knucklehead.
There was plenty of reasons toground me, you know.

(11:56):
So I stayed grounded a lot tobe a horse caretaker, basically,
you know it's like, okay,you're grounded, go clean horse
stalls.
Well, that really sucked, youknow, and it's just like I felt
and I was still doing meth and alittle bit of acid by that time
in that in that high school inWashington, and I just got super
depressed and it's like Ididn't see a way out and so I
took a bunch of pills, right, pm, tylenol, pms or something I

(12:20):
took like 20, or ambulance thereand they I don't even remember
if they took me, I think theymay have taken me to the
hospital pumped my stomach.
But anyway, at that time schoolwasn't really happening real
well, you know, and I was onlygoing to school to go through
the motions.
I had zero interest in what wasgoing on at school.
And then I got a part-time jobworking with a guy that had all

(12:42):
these great toys Like he had aPorsche and jet skis and you
know a go-kart with a motorcycleengine and low-rider trucks,
and he worked for the railroad.
He was a really responsible,good guy and so I was going over
there to work on the weekendsand I got into a big conflict
with my mom about that becauseshe wanted me to stay and work
on her farm.
And so we had this hugeeruption and she like eruption

(13:06):
and I she like came in swingingone morning and she gets
migraines that I get migraines.
You know, she was in a badplace and, uh, she came swinging
one morning.
I grabbed her by the hands andI screamed in her face don't
fucking touch me, don't, don'ttouch me, right.
So that ended that I had to golive with my sister and then,
living with my sister, I had topay rent, right.
So I quit, uh, school, went andtold him I got to find a job.
I got to to pay rent, now youknow.
So then I worked at thistelemarketing place where they

(13:27):
give you this script and you'resupposed to say you're a
handicapped person, you selltrash bags and shit, right, and
so, yeah, it was craziness.
So I did that for a littlewhile and then I was able to
move up a little further northin Washington and work for this
guy full time and that waspretty fun and I had a lot more
fun.
You know, alcohol was never aproblem.
He'd buy alcohol.

(13:51):
For me it's craziest thing.
He'd buy me a couple of casesof alcohol and give me the keys
to his 944.
Porsche and tell me go have fun.
Who does that?
Yeah, that's crazy.
He's like don't worry about thetires, we'll get more tires.
Dude, I just man.
I gave that car hell and it wasso much fun, he'd lend me his
mini truck.
I didn't even have a license atthe time.
I don't know why he's crazy.

Todd (14:07):
How old were you when that took place?

Michael (14:09):
Well, I was like probably I don't know high
school age, you know like 10th11th, so you drop out?

Todd (14:16):
What year in school were you in I?

Michael (14:18):
think it was 11th.
The smartest thing I ever didwas, as soon as I dropped out,
went ahead and went and got myGED.
Okay.
And how I did that through allthat while I was getting high,
and all that stuff is just stillbeyond how I like.
How'd that happen, right?
But I did, and that positivelyimpacted me when I went to
prison, Okay.
So I went through all that andthen I got a new girlfriend.

(14:39):
She was a stripper and then Iwas a DJ at some strip clubs and
that was a lot of fun too, Alot more partying.
Did you have a DJ name?
No, just me.
No, it wasn't DJ Magic Mike, itwas nothing like that.
D-d-d-dj.
Come get some of that goodgoodin' before that good
goodin's gone.
Next up is Sierra, right?

(15:00):
Some crazy shit like that.

Todd (15:05):
That is the clip I'm going to advertise this episode with.
People are going to be likewhat is going on?

Michael (15:14):
that was a lot of fun for a while and then I chased
that girl to Idaho and then allthe drugs and alcohol just
stayed on.
And then at one point in timewe were doing drugs and alcohol
started continuing.
It just stayed on.
And then at one point in thattime, in there we were doing
drugs and alcohol.
And then she got pregnant andyou know, we were both doing
drugs and alcohol for the firstbit of the pregnancy, which you
know later on caused someeffects in my son, I'm sure.

(15:36):
And then we moved to likeColorado or something after the
baby was born and then thatdidn't work out too good and I
was on the run for some felonycharges that I was able to later
get reduced to misdemeanors,but I was like every day washing
over my shoulder to make surethe guy.
My whole idea was to stay outof jail long enough to watch my
son be born.

(15:56):
Sure, and that I accomplishedthat right, but still we never
stopped really doing drugs afterthat.
Anywhere we went, I was stillthere and I was the problem.
No, no geographical change wasable to solve my, solve my
issues, because I was theproblem you know, do you?

Todd (16:16):
do you feel like that statement and that's that's
probably a very common thing,isn't it Like you're?
You're a yes, your environmentdoes impact you in a lot of ways
, but it's almost like yourenvironment shapes you and you
kind of become something thatyou got to work through to a
degree.
Is that fair or how?
How do you sort of look at thatnow, at the end of this?

Michael (16:35):
If you want to do drugs and alcohol, you're going to
find that wherever you're atright.
Sure, colorado was really hardto find meth, you know.
We met up with a guy thatsupposedly made it and we gave
him some money to supposedlymake some and he went off on
some tweaking spree and we neverreally got any, you know.
So we'd substitute with, youknow, beer or alcohol or you
know marijuana.

Todd (16:53):
Just something.

Michael (16:54):
Something right.
It's just always that hollowemptiness of something's never
enough and you always needsomething.
And I can remember vividly andyou always need something.
And I can remember vividly thefirst time I ever wanted to do
drugs.
I was like in third grade.
We would go to the rollerskating rink, you know a lot,
when we were young, and ourparents would take us up there

(17:18):
and we'd roller skate, you know,and then they'd hang out in the
lounge while we're not drinkingor nothing, just hang out in
the lounge while we're doingthat activity.
And I went into the bathroom andthere was a kid maybe I don't
know seventh grade or somethingand he's getting some pills out
of a bottle.
And I'm like, what's that?
He's like it's drugs.
Kid, you don't want it.
I'm like, yeah, I want some ofthat, right.
So I got in trouble at theroller skating rink at that time
for feeding cardboard into thechange maker to play video games
.
I'd steal money out of thatthing.

(17:44):
So then I had to internalfeeling of that.
I wanted to do that and so Idid that for quite some time.

Todd (17:53):
Yeah, it's interesting and it's like growing up too with
your mom and your dad, and justthat situation, I'm sure,
creates an internal struggle,naturally by itself, without any
other factors involved.
You know, and I know that frompersonal experience myself Um,
like I grew up in a, in a familythat was that was divorced from

(18:13):
.
I don't remember my parentsbeing married to each other,
like it was like I was youngwhenever they divorced and uh,
remarried.
So I just grew up in twofamilies and I remember them
being polar opposites of oneanother in terms of like rules
all day over here and nothing,no rules at all over here.

Michael (18:30):
Yeah.

Todd (18:30):
So I mean, I know that definitely played a part in my
life, but all right, so you areyou now at this point you now
have a son, right, yep, walk methrough that.
Did that change anything?

Michael (18:46):
Well, we got our shit together for a while, even
though I was on the run and itjust all seemed really temporary
because it could be gone at anyminute, you know.
So, from uh, from, fromcolorado, I think, we moved to
uh, alabama with uh, with my, mygirlfriend's parents, and were
there for several years and thengot hooked on crack, found
crack, cocaine, right that's inalab Alabama.

(19:07):
Oh, that's in Alabama.
Yeah, couldn't find meth,didn't really find pot.
Much Alcohol was always thereand that was always prevalent.
And that was a big problem withmy son's mother is that she'd
get drunk and she's ready tofight like a man, you know.
So that was an issue, you know,and um, but we found crack
cocaine and that was a lot offun for a while until it wasn't
and I had a decent job, actuallyworking at a bridge company

(19:29):
operating heavy equipment and um, welding.
You know, before I even reallyknew how to weld, I was just I
could get out there and I'd doit, you know, it's like I could
do this and uh give me a torch.

Todd (19:39):
I've seen this on TV.

Michael (19:40):
Yeah, there was some kind of special job coming up
with that bridge company wherewe had to be down in a hole with
these metal walls and stuffaround you and so we had to take
a drug test.
So I'm like, oh fuck, I justsmoked a 50 Rock on the way to
work, right?
So I jump in the car because Ididn't have my ID and you had to
have your ID to take the drugtest, and I got back to the
house and I made this elaboratestory up that my grandmother had

(20:02):
died in Oregon and I had to goback to Oregon to be with her,
you know.
And so I could escape trying todo that drug test.
And then that lie fell through,and then they ended up putting
me through some rehab inBirmingham that I really didn't
know how to take seriously, wentto A, and that exposed me to
Narcotics Anonymous and startedgoing to Narcotics Anonymous,
but together with my son'smother.

(20:23):
We were just like one wants tobe good, the other is going to
be bad, vice versa.
You know, we played off eachother on that and we could just
never make a go of it because wewere our own worst enemies
together, you know.
So we moved back.
We ended up leaving my sonthere.
I remember that day was realsad and my dog and moved just

(20:44):
went to Idaho, I guess, or no.
We went to Oregon first and mydad knew that I had these
charges right and so he calledthe cops and the cops met us at
the bus station.
Supposedly they thought I had agun or something which I didn't
have a gun.
They were like get on theground, you know, let me check
him, check his bag for a gun.
And so I ended up going to jailthere and then I was extradited
back to Idaho where theseproblems had occurred, and then

(21:06):
my dad, you know, hired anattorney for me and a really
expensive, badass attorney.
And I learned at that point intime, if you have enough money
in the state system, you cankind of buy your way out of
trouble, because I was prettyguilty of what they charged me
of and then got lowered to, youknow, misdemeanors and the judge
is like asking during that timethe judge is asking the
prosecuting attorneys you'reagreeing to this?

(21:26):
You know my attorney's justsitting there like a big dog,
like yeah, yeah, you know theyall go out to coffee and pull
favors for each other and it'sso BS.
You know what.

Todd (21:35):
I mean Sure yeah.

Michael (21:36):
But anyway, I got out of that situation and got out of
jail.
Got out of jail and it was.
I met my probation officer onetime and I'm like fuck this
Right.
So.
And then I just hit the ground,running doing drugs, dealing
drugs.
And then, before you know it, Iwas working with a group of
people, just a small group ofpeople, but the FBI had this 27

(21:59):
count, 27 different people underinvestigations for seven years
before I even came into thepicture.
And I was only in that picturefor like seven months.
So, but in that seven monthsperiod of time I got out of jail
, I didn't have a cell phone,got a cell phone and by the end
of that seven months, you knowI'm selling, you know, 10 pounds
of meth a week, six pounds ofCoke and multiple pounds of
marijuana, you know.

(22:20):
So it went, it just exploded andthey like, when they arrested
us, the people above us told onus, they got them first and they
told on all of their customers.
So there was really nothing todispute.
Like, yeah, you know, they knewmy dog's name, they knew
everywhere I went.
They said we know you'd startat one.
You start at one side of thecity and by the time you ended
up the other side of the city,there was drugs every fucking

(22:41):
where, you know.
So I was a big problem in thatcommunity and, uh, yeah, it was
like when, when they arrested me, I was so unhappy though it was
a lot of fun when you're justdoing a pound here and there,
right you, it doesn't matter howmuch you do, you can still you
still have plenty, right, it'dbe nothing to leave a couple
ounces to a girlfriend at thetime and have fun with your
friends.
And they come back and they'reall just tweaked to the gills,

(23:03):
you know, and still have anounce of meth left and usually
got another four pounds, youknow.

Todd (23:09):
I feel horrible right now because you're telling me all
this and the one thing I can'tget past is they knew your dog's
name.

Michael (23:15):
Yeah, they knew my dog's name.

Todd (23:17):
Like.
What do you, what do you thinkthat's like?
Like from the FBI's perspective?

Michael (23:21):
Like it had to be the funnest thing ever to watch me
going around doing all this shit.
Like after I was sitting injail I was thinking, man, I was
on the wrong fucking team,because I bet they have a good
time chasing folks like me.
You know, they have all theintel and the signs were really
evident.
You know, like there wereseveral times like we'd stay in
different hotels.
We'd get one hotel, We'd havetwo hotel rooms.
You know the drugs and moneywould be sitting in one room and

(23:41):
then we do business in anotherroom and of course nobody knows
about that.
But you know, I looked outacross the building and it's not
because I was, like, you know,all paranoid or nothing, but I'd
see people on the roof here andthere.
You know I'd see peoplewatching from across the field.
You know it's like I always wasable to maintain somewhat to be
able to function in that,because it was nothing, you know
, to have to be responsible totake 30, 40, 50 grand to my

(24:05):
connection every few days, andthat's a big responsibility,
Knowing that if you don'tthere's going to be some serious
consequences.
So once you're in debt thatmuch, you can't just stop,
Because there was a point intime.
This guy had a really sweet 65Chevy truck.
It was all lowered andbeautiful, painted and all this
stuff, and he was a hardcoreaddict and I was really unhappy.

(24:26):
People around me are gettingpopped.
People uh, get sending notesfrom jail saying, hey, they're
asking questions about you.
I'm like here's my chance.
I could like just bounce with acouple of pounds of meth, get
this truck from this guy andhead to Washington.
But it would have been the sameshit, you know, and it didn't
happen much longer after thatwhen, uh, the DEA, the FBI, IRS

(24:47):
and all that in the middle of a10 pound deal, you know, busted
us and I remember laying down onthe bed when the door.
So we were in this hotel roomand I was going to go there to
make sure the money was therefor 10 pound deals, like 50, 60,
K, Right.
And so we were in there and theguy that I had with me was one
of my connections.
As soon as we walked in heflipped out two pounds of meth

(25:09):
onto the bed, right, the twoguys we were meeting with laid
down on the bed and that wastheir signal for the people with
all their automatic weapons andstuff in the adjoining room,
combusting the doors open andyou know we were under gunpoint
with all these bandit task forceand you know all the DEA and
all that stuff.
And I remember taking a deepbreath at that time and just
being so unhappy where my lifewas at, Just vividly telling
myself this is my way out, Idon't have to do this anymore,
I'm done so that was a turningpoint, total turning point, and

(25:32):
so all right.

Todd (25:33):
So at this point, you know , this is it, it's all done.
Yeah, it's done.
Like I'm free almost Almost,yeah, yeah, okay.
I'm free almost Almost, yeah,yeah, okay.

Michael (25:44):
That was my way.
I was trying to find a way out,but my way out was going to be
I'm stealing, you know, $8,000worth of drugs and I'm going to
beat this guy out of his truck,you know, for a couple ounces,
because he's a crackhead, youknow.
And then I was going to takeoff and I'd have some money
through these drugs somehow togo someplace else and not do it,
which is crazy.

(26:04):
It would have been the sameshit.

Todd (26:09):
Yeah, it's almost like there's a lot of traveling
happening, but the main sourceof struggle is the thing
traveling.

Michael (26:14):
Yeah right.

Todd (26:16):
Yeah, interesting.
Okay, so from there they comein.
Everybody's got guns pointed atyou, I'm assuming.

Michael (26:24):
Yeah.

Todd (26:25):
They tell you to get down.
Walk me through what that waslike.

Michael (26:29):
So Of course, the cops stand up you realize that
they're the cops that you'd beendealing with and they separate
everybody immediately and theytake me off to the side and I'm
like where's my fucking dog?
Because my dog was in the car,right, and they had taken my dog
to the pound, and so theywanted to know if I had any more
drugs, right?
And I said I'll surrender whatI have stashed someplace if you

(26:53):
exclude the girlfriend that I'mwith and if you bring my fucking
dog back.
And so they called the pound,brought my dog back, so I had my
dog in handcuffs.
You know, I was in handcuffs inthe back of this Jeep, Cherokee
, or whatever the hell it was,and they were taking me to the
girlfriend's house so that Icould get the drugs for them to
surrender.
Yeah, so they, they had alreadysearched my girlfriend's house

(27:13):
and and I had two ounces down inthe garbage disposal all taped
up you know where.
It was waterproof, and so itwas crazy.
And so I had my dog.
I was able to leave my dog withher.
She wasn't going to be underarrest, because that's what I
negotiated, right?
And so I gave them the coupleounces that I had that was in
the garbage disposal and my dumbass is like asking begging if I

(27:35):
could get high one more time.
Oh man, yeah, it just wasn'tenough.
You know, never enough.

Todd (27:40):
And did they honor their word, though Like they didn't
mess with her?

Michael (27:42):
They didn't hurt your dog Like everything's cool and
it all started sinking inbecause like I had thousands of
dollars right and like her powerwas turned off, I'm like what
the fuck?
Why didn't I have the power?
You know what?
I mean, and they're like startedpointing this shit out and I'm
like, yeah, things are fucked up.
Man, you're right, you know,yeah, yeah, so went to jail and
jail was crazy because, like,even though they busted all the

(28:06):
top people from, from the topdown, and they told on us they
they knew the whole thing Right,and so they're like, oh, we
know you do this, that, that,and part of what you get time
off for is acceptingresponsibility and
accountability for your actions,right?
So in jail everybody wasaccusing everybody of being a
snitch.
When everything came down fromthe top bottom, from the top
down, it's like, look, theyalready fucking know everything.

(28:26):
What am I supposed to do?
Say I didn't do that, so Ican't get my points of
acceptability out.
You know, to try to help me formy sentencing, you're fucking
crazy.
So everybody was a rat, right,everybody accused a baby of a
rat.
So they had to keep us allseparated.
And then you know, other fellowinmates would try to get in on
it and you know say, oh, he's arat, that's a rat.
And then it just makes it ahard time, you know trying to
navigate.

Todd (28:46):
How long were you there for?

Michael (28:47):
So we were for like two years at least way over a year
before everybody got sentencedand stuff, and I did a lot of
soul searching at that time.
I'd say I'd probably slept forthe first three weeks because it
was nothing to stay up for 14days at a time I'd be up and
then I'd have all these peoplethat would be sympathetic to

(29:10):
what I was doing, and it wasprobably because I had drugs so
I could give them some drugs.
But one of the guys was a taxidriver.
He's like I don't care whereyou're at, bro, if you need me
to meet in the alley with thetrunk open and you need to get
inside the trunk and I get youthe fuck out of there, I'll do
that right.
So he was a trusted guy yeahand he had a family and uh.
So anytime I know that I wasgonna crash after being up 10,
12, 14 days, I'd call him, he'dtake me to his house, he'd put

(29:32):
me in a room Me and my dog wouldjust stay in the room, sleep
for several days until we wokeup and just start the whole
process over again.
I remember having two cellphones at a time, you know,
because everything's so shiftyin that industry that I'd have
one phone of people that I wantto communicate with, and then
I'd have another phone that isonly going to be lasting for a
week or two, so the people Ididn't want to communicate with

(29:54):
simply just didn't get my newnumber, and I'd split phones
every week or so.
So I'm in the back of thesetaxi cabs.
My phones are ringingthemselves to death.
I couldn't keep them on charge.
I got two plug-in chargers, onein the front seat, one in the
back seat just trying to keeptwo phones going, and it's just
complete chaos, man.

Todd (30:10):
Man, all right.
And then, how old were you whenthat was going on?

Michael (30:14):
So that was in 2001.
I think I was 22.
Okay, something like that.

Todd (30:22):
Wow, 2001.
I was in high school.
Yeah, I was just finishing uphigh school.
I was like 11th or 12th, 11thgrade.

Michael (30:29):
Yeah, I was supposed to graduate in 96 and that never
happened.

Todd (30:31):
Okay, all right graduate in 96 and that never happened.
Okay, all right.

Michael (30:39):
So you're in county jail for Conspiracy to
manufacture, possess anddistribute cocaine,
methamphetamine and ecstasy.
That was the supersedingindictment.

Todd (30:48):
Okay, and then you said was that the one that got
lessened?

Michael (30:52):
No, that was something completely different.
Okay, so that one stayed.
Yeah, so that was a problem.
Problem, right, because I hadcriminal history points.
So when you get sentenced, theyaccumulate everything you've
done over your life, right, andas far as criminality, and then
there's a slide scale of howthey're going to sentence you,
right.
So if you had never been introuble before, chances are
you're going to get under fiveyears and you're going to go to

(31:13):
a minimum security uh federalinstitution, prison camp or
something where, like, if youreally wanted to, you could just
walk away, right.
So I wasn't one of those luckyguys, because one of a couple of
the charges that I uh had were,uh serious felony charges, like
person-to-person crime.
Even though they were reducedto uh misdemeanors, they still
counted them as a felony rightduring the sentencing guidelines

(31:36):
.
So that put me up like 72 or 79months in sentencing and so,
yeah, they do it on.
There's really no way outsideof that.
The federal system has like a98% conviction rate.
So usually when the feds cometo get you, they already have
everything they need to be ableto prosecute you, you know.

Todd (31:57):
So am I, am I correct in in this?
Like cause, I've never reallyheard too much about how this
system works.
You are in county jail awaitinga federal sentence.
Yes, that's how that works.
Yeah, so you were there foressentially two years awaiting
to be charged.

Michael (32:15):
No, charged awaiting for court, awaiting for court,
awaiting for court, awaiting forsentencing.

Todd (32:19):
So you were there for essentially two years awaiting
to be charged, no charged,awaiting for court, awaiting for
court, awaiting for court,awaiting for sentencing and all
that, okay.
So if you don't mind, walk methrough that Like you've been in
this system, this structureinside the county jail I'm
assuming there was some form ofstructure there for two years
and then they're like all right,you're going to court.
Yeah, so they pulled you in andout several times.

Michael (32:39):
And you had a.
You had a hearing for like,like, when you first get in
trouble.
You got a hearing and then yougot another hearing where you go
there and it's bullshit, theystretch it all out.
You know.
You have another hearing forthis, and then you go there and
then they reschedule it.
So it's like they you're in thecounty jail and they shackle
you up, you know hands and feet,and then take you out through
the corridor to a van and thentransport you over to the

(33:00):
federal house where you go intoanother holding cell.
And then you get to see thebuddies you got in trouble with,
you know, and some are cool andsome aren't cool.
You know they think that, oh,I'm this or that you know, or
you're this or that you know,but anyway, yeah.
So finally got sentenced andyeah, 72 months, and then you
got to wait for them to come, usMarshals, to come pick you up.
So they do that in a bigrotation, so you never know when

(33:23):
that's happening, right.
So once you get sentenced andyou're going to go, you know, to
whatever prison they assign youto which they don't tell you,
right?
So they come pick you up andthen they take you to.
I think we drove to Salt LakeCity and then they put you on
Con Air.
Con Air is a real thing, right?
So it's a regular jet, right.
But the back door folds down.

(33:43):
You walk up the stairs, allhandcuffed and shackled through
the back of the plane and thensit wherever the US Marshals
tell you to sit, and then theyfly you to oh shit, where is it?
Some other state?
It's like a holding facilityfor the feds, where everybody
that's coming through goesbefore they go to the prison
they're going to.
So they don't tell you untilyou get right, before you get on

(34:11):
the airplane on Con Air whereyou're going.
Right.
So the marshals have a list,but they don't tell you ahead of
time, so you don't plan aprison escape, right so right,
and that's especially uh true tohigh, high, uh classified
inmates like they.
They really classified mine high.
So when we were in the van theywere like, oh, you're going to
fci, which is a medium prison,and or you're going to camp this
.
And then they call my name andlike, uh, you're going to,
you're going to usp Atwater.

(34:33):
And everybody in the van islike, ooh right, it's a maximum
security federal institution.
You know it's a penitentiaryand where is that one at Atwater
California?
Wow, yeah, so.

Todd (34:44):
Was that a shock, like when you heard that, did you
immediately know what it was?
Or was it sort of like why iseverybody saying ooh?

Michael (34:50):
Why is everybody saying , ooh right.
So then I start asking around.
When we were in the maincomplex, once everybody goes
before they ship you out to theprisons, yeah, and just lots of
stories about, you know, all thedifferent race groups and all
the violence and the craziness.
And a prison guard got killedthere not long ago and it's a
newer facility.
Once we figure out going there,you know, going through getting

(35:17):
uh taken into the prison andthen they make you stay in the
shoe for a couple of weeks tomake sure you'd have no hated.
I don't know why they do gangchecks or something.
I was never in a gang so Idon't really know.
But everybody has to go to theshoe before they assign you a
housing unit, right?
So, um, stayed in the shoe fora couple of weeks and uh, then
uh get assigned to a housingunit and every day scared bro,
like of my own people, theskinheads are the worst, you

(35:38):
know, because I always grew uplike in a community that was
pretty diverse and didn't knowany racism, you know, but when
you go into a federal prison,you know, like if I was to get
caught excuse me smoking orsharing a cigarette with a black
guy, the skinheads could comestab me.
That's a stab-able offense, butyet they can do heroin that a
black man smuggled in his buttinto the prison Somehow.

(36:03):
That's okay.
So all these double standardsthat I just was never really
used to.
And of course, my best buddywas a bank robber from Compton
and him and I would hang out,you know, and he was a good guy
and he showed me a different wayof doing prison time.
That didn't include gettingcaught up in all the drama and
all the different gang conflictsand stuff and, uh, got me a job
in the education department andbecause I had that GED I was
able to teach GED classes.
So you know I was.

(36:24):
I already knew at that point intime that I was changing my life
and I was going to use thattime to better myself, you know.
So like my sister would send meDr Phil books and I'd read the
fuck out of that Dr Phil, youknow.
So.
Like my sister would send me drphil books and I'd read the
fuck out of that dr phil bookand I'd do a book report on it
and how everything would applyto me or how I could apply, you
know myself, to these principles.
You know different things likethat and you know used that time
to try to repair the, the, therelationships that I had damaged

(36:48):
.
You know, like with my dad.
You know I remember him tellingme one time on the phone he's
like the only thing, only thingyou do to the people that you
say you love is hurt them, letthem down, you know, and so that
really hit like a ton of bricksand I just, I had to take it
and I had to reflect on it and Ihad to write about it.
I wrote in a journal every day.
I've been trying to find thosejournals.
They're somewhere around.
I got them stashed away butjust like, okay, I have to own

(37:11):
that, you know.
And that's where I have tostart.
I have to start from thatcomment to rebuild trust and,
you know, establish myself backas clean and sober, and just
from ground one you know, and itwas.
a lot of my relationships werelike that.
My grandmother wrote me all thetime bless her heart, she
passed, but a really greatrelationship with my grandmother

(37:32):
and I had maybe two friendsthat stuck it out through the
entire sentence with me that aredoing well for themselves.

Todd (37:40):
And how long were you sentenced for?

Michael (37:42):
72 months and I got so.
Like the first three years Iwas at this FCI or the USP and
what I learned is that it was anew institution, so they were
bringing medium class peopleinto the prison, jacking their
points up so that they could getthem there to open the prison
and then start moving them outslowly.

Todd (38:02):
And I was one of those transitional people.

Michael (38:05):
So just like I never I only got in trouble one time.
The whole time I was there fornot making my bed on time and I
took every adult continuingeducation class.
I took real estate.
I took check writing.
I took a lot continuingeducation class.
I took real estate.
You know I took check writing.
I took a lot of writing classes.
You know I taught myself how towrite while I was in prison.
I didn't know what a comma wasfor or when it was used, but you
know, my second year of beingincarcerated I got a full

(38:25):
two-page article published inAmerican Songwriter Magazine.
I got more space than GretchenWilson had that time.

Todd (38:36):
I was like take that.

Michael (38:36):
Gretchen Wilson had that time I was like, take that,
gretchen, I'm here for theparty.
You got beat by the DJ Getwhile that good getting's good
before that good getting's goneRight.

Todd (38:42):
Alright.
So I'm curious about thisFederal prison, what I perceive
it as, what I've seen onPunisher.

Michael (38:54):
I don't know what Punisher is.

Todd (38:56):
It's like a Marvel TV series.
You know it's like.
What I'm saying is liketelevision is the only place
I've ever seen federal prisonand I would go on record to
probably say the majority ofpeople that's all they know of
prison.
Is that?
How true is any of that stuffto actually being in there and
like what?
Is that like day to day?

Michael (39:18):
So a lot of people always ask about people getting
raped.
Right, I never saw anybodygetting raped.
There was enough gay people toservice the guys that were
really interested in that kindof behavior.
So that was never a thing.
But there are definitely sexualpredators there, and me as a
skinny white kid, you know likethere was one guy.
His name was Clark giant guy.
He's a must've been 400 poundblack guy from somewhere, had

(39:38):
the gold rim glasses and stuff.
Well, you know the way I earnedmoney while I was in there,
cause I didn't have anybody toput money on my books to buy
chips and soups and all thatstuff was.
I made greeting cards, right.
So I'm a decent artist.
So I draw greeting cards andcolor them up, put words and
stuff in them, and every time Imade one from him the currency
is stamps or was stamps at thattime, right.

(39:58):
So a book of stamps was likesix bucks, right.
So my cards were like a book ofstamps, right.
So every time I make him a cardfor him, I'd hold my hand out
to be paid and he would liketake his fingernails and like
droop them across my finger ashe's setting the book of stamps.
And they're just super creepyright.
Yeah, that is weird, yeah, andI just did.

Todd (40:19):
I didn't want to deal with the business I'd like.

Michael (40:20):
Here's your card you can put your money here, I'll
take my money and get you knowso.
But uh, just the racism is justlike super, super awkward to me
.
You know you had like arianbrotherhoods.
You had, like, you know, diehard like um nazi group kind of
guys.
You had the bloods.
You had cri.
You know, diehard like Nazigroup kind of guys, you had the
Bloods.
You had Crips.
You had North Anios and SerenioMexican groups and then you had
Indian gangs and Asian gangs,right.

(40:41):
So it's so crazy, like if youwent and caused a problem with
another race, that race is notgoing to handle it.
The skinheads are going to comedeal with you.
Everybody handles their ownrace, good or bad, whoa, yeah.

Todd (40:53):
So it's sort of a way to manage conflict a little easier.

Michael (40:56):
Right.
So the last thing they want issome black guy come smashing a
skinhead for some dumb shit hedid when the skinheads could
take care of that internally.
Wow, to prevent race wars.

Todd (41:05):
So that was really weird.
So you were like on your own.

Michael (41:09):
Well, I had a cellmate from Washington.
He wasn't on, he was just anormal white guy, you know, not
really on anything.
So I was fortunate that he wascool enough to kind of teach me
the ropes Don't do this, don'tdo that, you know, you know, do
this.
And then then my black friendVaughn, you know, they just
actually just got off federalprobation.

Todd (41:24):
Seemed like there's a lot of, there was a lot of favor in
your life in that respect that,like certain, like moments like
the GED thing, turned out to bea super legit deal yeah.

Michael (41:35):
That really was a saving grace, because without
that you're forced to be on theyard.
So every new white guy thatcomes in there, all those
skinhead groups, are comingright up to you to figure out
where you're from and wanting torecruit you to go do work.
And work is like they're goingto send you on a fucking mission
to smash somebody and you'regoing to end up in the hole and
they're not going to take careof you.
And when you get out, you knowyou might get more time for what

(41:56):
you're doing.
You know, just just, and it'slike a degree of belonging, it's
a degree of protection, and soI didn't have those protections,
you know, because I chose to bean independent, which is a
really tough thing to do in amaximum security prison.
Wow, real tough Like I was anoddity.
But Wow, real tough Like I wasan oddity.
But you did it, though, but Idid it.

Todd (42:15):
Heck yeah, I'm proud of you.
I did it.
That's so crazy.
It's cool to sit across thetable from you, know nothing
about you, hear your story andlike I'm like rooting for you
the whole time.
Because, even though I don'tknow you, I'm like dude, but you
did it, You're sitting here.

Michael (42:31):
There's a.
You know what I mean it's like.
So I remember one time like, uh, we have counselors that you'd
go periodically to visit and seewhere you're at and they tell
you to do what classes and ifyou don't have a GED you have to
go through GED program.
So the cool thing about thatwas that I was in the education
department, I was teaching thebloods, I was teaching the crips
, I was teaching all the crazywhite guys.
Every, every race came throughthere and I just treated them

(42:52):
nicely and would genuinely tryto help them.
You know, get their GED so theycould move on and get a better
prison job that pays 20 cents,20 cents a day or some crazy
shit, right.
And so when shit got real crazyon the yard as far as racially,
you know, those differentethnic groups have come to my
bat and say leave the teacheralone.
He helps all of us.
I'm like what that bigmotherfucker say yeah, I'm just,
I'm going to my dorm, I got mybag, I'm going to the dorm.

(43:14):
I don't want no part ofwhatever you got.
I'm not looking.
You know, I'm handling, I'mdoing my thing, and it was a
saving grace for sure.
Like I'm so thankful my friendVaughn for teaching me that
opportunity to get by there.

Todd (43:26):
Was it really hard to like maintain that long term?

Michael (43:30):
No.

Todd (43:30):
It got easier as it went.
Do you feel like?

Michael (43:32):
Well, I mean, I made my decision that I was going to do
better for myself as soon asall those automatic weapons were
pointed on me.
Fair enough, yeah Right.
So I mean, every day I tried todo something to better myself
or the people around me, andsomehow I didn't realize until
later on that, you know, helpingother people somehow helped
myself, sure, you know.
So that really put me in aposition that I still do today.

(43:55):
As far as giving back, don'tget too good, don't get too busy
.
Always remember to give back.
Yeah, that's good.
Giving back unselfishly is theclosest thing that I have felt
internally to doing drugs.

Todd (44:09):
Oh, I see what you're saying.

Michael (44:09):
Yeah, yeah it makes the hair on my arm stand up.

Todd (44:12):
Yeah, it feels, good I feel a release of endorphins.

Michael (44:15):
You know, yeah, it feels awesome.
And just you know, I'll foreverbe a drug addict.
You know, even though I don'tdo alcohol or drugs now, I will
forever have those tendencies.
So here's a good example I goto get a dog right, come home
with two.
I got a welding hood, now Ineed 50, and I have 50, if not
more.
Sure or damn.

(44:36):
If one truck is good, fuckingfive is awesome.

Todd (44:38):
You know what that is.
I think that's passion.

Michael (44:41):
Tell my wife that I got a lot of passion, connie.
Sorry, connie, I love you.
I love you right now.

Todd (44:54):
And the reason I say that is because I'm very much the
same way, even though I didn'tever get involved in the drugs,
hardcore or anything.
But it's like you're apassionate person and so,
whatever it is like, if I decideI'm going to start drinking
loose leaf tea like it's likeI'm not just having a cup of
loose leaf tea, I'm going to gobuy the tea set.
I'm going to get five differentbags of different blends from

(45:14):
all over the world.
I'm going to figure out thebest method to make it you know,
what I mean.
It's like I got to know how todo it right.
That's the drive, and I feellike that passion is what it is.
It can be a blessing and it canbe a curse.
It depends on what you'repassionate about.

Michael (45:30):
It's definitely a double-edged sword.
Yeah, definitely a double-edgedsword.
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
So one time I got passionateabout saltwater fishing and
spearfishing, okay, and scubadiving.
My wife's over there justshaking her head For those of
you listening.

Todd (45:42):
Right now, connie's sitting in the chair, staring at
both of us with this look andshaking her head like what is
going on?
Granted, she's smiling.
I don't want to paint the wrongimage.
She's smiling, smiling.
I'm in trouble.
I'll keep my mouth shut.
Sorry, connie.
Well, good thing is we can'thear her.
Yeah, she may be mad, I don'tknow.
We'll find out afterwards.

(46:03):
Yeah, I got to ride home withher.
Let me know how it goes.
Text me when you get home.

Michael (46:09):
I might be texting you from the side of the road, bro.

Todd (46:12):
Come get me All right.
So you were there for 72 months.

Michael (46:18):
Well, no.
So after being at that USP forthree years, I did everything I
possibly could to try to get atransfer right.
And they tell you do this, thisand this and this.
And so I did every single thing.
They required all these adultcontinuing education classes,
staying out of trouble, you know, and just you know like while I
was in there I worked for themaintenance department and so I

(46:42):
talked my way into beingresponsible for keeping inside
of our dorm area painted, sothey would pay me overtime to do
that.
So in the evenings I juststayed busy doing shit that
didn't require the drama ofprison.
So I'd be, like, you know,putting signs up and tape and
painting all the railings, youknow, and things like that.
They let me keep my ownpainting supplies in there and

(47:02):
that's where I worked, right.
So I did everything that Icould to appease the case
manager, you know, and to try toget out of there sooner.
And then I remember one daythere was a guy banging on the
counselor's door, because it's adoor that's inside the dorm
that you have to walk down thehall to go to a counselor, right
.
And so he's banging and kickingand just carrying on and
screaming and cussing, becausewhen you're in a maximum

(47:24):
security prison, when you getready to transfer, they cannot
tell you where you're going,because you might plan a prison
escape, right.
So I'm like he's an idiot thatwe know that they're not going
to tell us where we're going andhe was demanding that, right.
And so guess who had to go inright behind him.

Todd (47:37):
Oh, no yeah.

Michael (47:38):
So I go in there.
He's like you've done great,you've done everything we've
asked you to do.
And I tried to put in a prison,transfer to Talladega, which is
like 20 minutes from where myson lived.
I figured if I could at leaststart rebuilding my relationship

(47:59):
with my son that I don't know,really know very well through
visitations, right.
And so you know, I asked him,I'd really like to go to
Talladega.
You know, my son's grandmotherhas agreed to bring him to see
me once a month, if you can dothat, you know.
And he's like well, I can'tguarantee that.
I'm like I understand, youcan't guarantee that.
I'm like, I understand, youcan't guarantee that.
So then I went back for my nextmeeting and he's like and the
counselor was so cool because heknew I wasn't on any bullshit,
I was there to do my thing andhe's like I can't tell you where

(48:21):
you're going, but let's justsay you're going to be
pleasantly surprised.

Todd (48:28):
So that was his way of saying that I got the transfer
to.

Michael (48:29):
Talladega yeah, that's cool.
That was like my firstmonumental achievement.
Next to the full two-pagefeature I got in American
Songwriter Magazine that I set agoal and that I was able to
persevere long enough to make ithappen Wow.
So we got to go to Talladegaand that was a big milestone,

(48:50):
like for you.
that was like hope restored,right yeah absolutely, and so I
didn't know where I was going toeventually release at.
I'm like, ah, something willwork out, right, sure, something
will work out.
So I got to Talladega and boy,what a breath of fresh air,
going from a maximum security toa medium security.
I could like sit down outsideand do my drawing and my artwork

(49:10):
and have headphones on and nothave to worry about somebody
getting stabbed behind me orsome race war popping off, you
know.
And it was just like, oh, youknow, it's nice to be here, you
know.
And so that was a lot betterplace.
And at that, at that program orat that facility, they had an
RDAP program, residential drugtreatment, or something Right.

(49:30):
And so a lot of the people ifyou never, if you, if you never
had a violent charge, you wereable, I mean, you could take the
drug program regardless, but ifyou had a violent charge, you
don't get the year off that theyoffer.
Ok.
So I was looking forward totaking that program, right, not
even knowing that I was going toget a year off, because I
thought that I had a violentcharge.
But since it was a misdemeanor,you know, they ended up going

(49:53):
ahead and giving me that yearoff and then so accumulated good
time, uh, and the year off.
I got out two years early.
Wow, so it was about five yearsin prison, dude yeah.

Todd (50:06):
That's crazy, you know it's.
It's awesome that, despite thesituation, you you made a
conscious decision when allthose guns were pointed at you.

Michael (50:18):
Yeah.

Todd (50:19):
That you were like and it wasn't a normal decision.
No, it's not, because you know,there are times in our lives,
right, where we make choices andthen we make like choices and
you made one of those harddefinite this is my choice, I'm
changing.
And it's cool to see that evenwhen there were other

(50:41):
environmental pressures anddifferent things happening, you
still were like this is mychoice, I made it.
I'm going to see this out.
I think that's really cool.

Michael (50:49):
It's really sad because the recidivism rate is really
high, you know, and and Iunderstand why is because most
people that go to prison view itas a vacation to learn, to
further their criminality and todo to do the same thing
differently but not get caughtnext time.
So, um, honestly, I'd saythere's less than five people

(51:11):
that I ever met that I thoughtwere there to try to better
themselves and that most likelywould not be coming back.
Yeah, and that's out of a lotof people.

Todd (51:19):
That's like the definition of insanity, right?
It's like you think.

Michael (51:24):
Well, even with the RDAT program, I didn't plan on
getting a year off.
I didn't know until the programwas over that I was even
getting it.
But I was the.
I spent all my life trying tobe cool, always trying to be the
cool kid, right, the young coolkid.
And look where that got me.
So I was like 180 degrees,headed the other way, like I was
the dork up in the front rowwith a pocket protector and with
the tape between your glasses.
you know, seriously taking thatprogram to learn as much as I

(51:46):
can.
So I never had to come backthere again.
I was serious about it.
No-transcript, I'm never comingback, yeah, and so that's how

(52:11):
me.
That just hit me like a ton ofbricks in that program, if I
took nothing else from it.
He made a statement one day.
That what did he say?
He says your two tests offreedom will be if you can do
the right thing when no one'slooking.

Todd (52:25):
Ooh, that's good.

Michael (52:27):
Yeah, and I'm like my entire life.
I've done whatever I thought Icould get away with.
All I have to do is the rightthing when no one's looking and
life gets better.
I thought I could get away with.
All I have to do is the rightthing when no one's looking and
life gets better.

Todd (52:37):
And you know, I learned later that that's integrity.

Michael (52:39):
I didn't know what integrity was?
Yeah, absolutely it's integrity.
Yeah, I lived my life like thatand life got real good.

Todd (52:45):
Wow, that's crazy.
Okay, that one thing, so I'mgoing to back up a little bit.
When you were at Talladega, didyour grandmother come and bring
your son?
Did all that end up happening?

Michael (52:56):
So she came, yeah, and she would bring him, and it was
a lot of like there's been.
There were several months whereshe didn't come, but I would be
able to call and then I couldearn money and put money on my
cell phone or not cell phone,but on my able ability to call
out.

Todd (53:14):
Okay.

Michael (53:14):
So I would call, and every time I call, and he was
just a wreck, you know, alwaysin trouble, and so it got to be
where.
She would just want me to talkwith him and tell him what to do
every time he's in troublebecause she didn't have any,
like you know, no reward systems.
No, like this is what's goingto happen.
No, follow through.
She was a good grandparent.

(53:34):
You know how grandparents are.
They don't make great parents,and so that was the role.
I'm super thankful of her to beable to be there to take care
of my son.
It's just a lot of problemswere created by being a good
grandma instead of a parent, andthe fault of that is mine and
his mother's, so I had to dealwith the cards that were given
to us.
Fault of that is mine, sure,and his mother's sure you know.

Todd (53:55):
So I had to deal with the cards that were given to us.
So so there's.
Yeah, so you're, you're wearinga lot, of, a lot of that
responsibility from not just thedecisions that you were making
them but, like, like you weresaying earlier, about how it
affects the other people aroundyou.
Yeah, what was the quote?
One more time you said you readabout oh, the instructor.

Michael (54:11):
yeah, your two test will for to freedom will be if
you can do the right thing whenno one's looking.

Todd (54:15):
Yeah, and that really is pivotal, right?
Oh yeah To this whole story, tothe whole story, because then
you're like, okay, I just haveto do the right thing, yeah, and
then things will get better.
All right, I want to hear thatside of it now.
So you get out.
When did that?

Michael (54:33):
happen.
So 2006, july of 2006.
And so also during that time, Ihad been writing my sister,
even from the first prison, andshe was, of course, sending me
self-help books that I actuallydidn't just look at, I actually
read and tried to apply, andthen so they would come as a
family and visit me a coupletimes.

(54:53):
And then she offered, she said,if you promise you're done
getting in trouble, you can comelive with me and my family in
Chattanooga and start over.
Tim can get you a job at theforklift dealership.
And so I'm like great right.
So that's exactly what it is.
She picked me up.
Pull your mic up a little bit.
She picked me up in July of2006.

(55:15):
And I've always been a hugeanimal lover and I haven't pet a
dog for years, and she had twoBoston Terriers.
So I just pet the hell out ofthose dogs all the way back to
Chattanooga, man, and so shepicked me up and took me to the
halfway house in Chattanooga andI had to stay there for geez, I
think four months, you know,before I could go on home
confinement or home release, andthat's a crazy thing.

(55:38):
So it's it's, it's like alittle.
It's like prison.
You know cause?
Everybody's there, but it's not.
They still have rules, but youcould leave if you really wanted
to, but you don't.
You know cause.
You have to go like through likedrug treatment not treatment,
but counseling, you know and dodifferent group things, and the
worst part was that you know yougo to work and you have to be

(56:00):
somewhere where the landline is,so they could call randomly and
check to make sure you're therethree times a day.
Now I'm sure they do thatthrough ankle monitoring systems
now, but when I was out, youhad to be by a landline, so of
course my employers kneweverything that was going on.
I had to get a ride back andforth to work because I didn't
have a vehicle, but you had topay 25% of your gross earnings
to stay there, and so it's likeit's not like that anymore

(56:23):
though, so you don't have to paythat.
They take that money and put itin account for when you're
ready to go to help you get up,right.
So it's like, oh God, we justgot out Right and then kick him,
to kick a guy in the teeth andyou know 25% of his, you know
net earnings.
So I had to do that, you knowreligiously.
But how I kind of looked at myjob as kind of like the
education department back inprison.
It's like, look, they're goingto allow me to work as many

(56:45):
hours as I want, right.
So I started out this forkliftdealership, you know, just
sweeping the floors, because Ididn't know nothing about
forklifts, didn't have any tools, because I didn't know nothing
about forklifts, didn't have anytools.
So I started buying tools, andmy first job was a manual pallet
jack right when you take thearms and it lifts up a pallet.
So go fix this.
So I fixed that, and then,before you know it, I got a
bunch of tools that I financed.

Todd (57:07):
Don't lie.
You know you rode those palletjacks around.

Michael (57:11):
They're so fun to ride.
Oh, dude, I can do a gnarlyburnout in a forklift, let me
tell you so.
Um, but it started out as I wasthe best shop cleaner they ever
had and then, like, I saw thatall the tile in the front office
and show room needed to bebuffed.
So I'm like, hey, if you guysget a buffer, I'll come in on
the weekends, you know, and I'llstrip it and I'll buff it, so I
create as many opportunities asI can to stay out of the damn

(57:33):
halfway house, sure, and earnmoney.
So started out, and I did thatmanual pallet jack and before
you know it, you know I'm takingengines out and doing all this
crazy cool stuff.
You know, like I go out andthey gave me my first van was to
go take and do oil changes andstuff, and so I had to get
special permission to travelaround the tri-state Alabama,
tennessee, georgia.

(57:53):
So usually you're not supposedto be able to leave your
district, but you know I'd doneso well on federal probation
officer.
That's another story, a goodstory.
But you know, when I ended upleaving that company five years
later, I was the number twotechnician for electrical
diagnostic computer software,rapid charging systems, acid

(58:15):
replacements, cell replacementson forklift batteries.
So I'd really worked my way up.
And there's still the old headsthat have been there for years,
that never made it past PMtechnician that has had their
entire lives just in five years,excelling way beyond those
people and be like, look, youhad the same opportunity.
Man, I haven't got no favors,I've earned every dime that I've
been here.

Todd (58:34):
Yeah, yeah, you took it serious when the opportunity
presented itself.

Michael (58:39):
I don't know shit about computers, but if you show me
how to diagnose this thing withthis computer system, I'll
figure it out right.
So I made myself valuable, um,and I always had company
vehicles, company cell phones,keys to the dealership, things
like that, you know, because Iearned it.
But a lot of guys will be likeI can't get a job because I got
felony conviction, this and that, and that, just you know,

(59:01):
wasn't really my experience.

Todd (59:04):
Yeah.

Michael (59:04):
You know you can start someplace, earn the trust, earn
the respect and grow from there.
It may not be where you want tostart, Right, but you got to
take what you can.
And the only thing being afelon has not allowed me to do
was get a visa to go travel toSouth Korea.
Okay, that's the only thing.
And then it got us pulled overin Mexico on the way back from

(59:26):
Mexico and customs, and theysearched our shed and asked
where we were at, who we werehanging out with, what we did
there.
And by the time, like fromcustoms to back, where they had
our bags already pulled, I wasjust shooting straight with them
yeah, let's do this that youknow life is like this and that
now.
And by the time we got that,I'm like you're not going to do
a cavity search, are you?
And he's like do you want to?
I'm like absolutely not.

(59:46):
He's like I don't think that'sneeded, Right.
So I've had fun with it, you.
And then I use it now to go be avoice and speak at risk youth
and work with kids three times ayear and teaching kids how to
weld and tell my story and tellthem how they can keep it kind
of glued together throughwelding and fabrication.

(01:00:07):
I understand that not everybodyeither has the aptitude or the
willingness or the want to go tocollege.
And boy, they really screwedthat up by telling everybody
they had to go to college.
You know, I think, that so manywasted hours, so many wasted
millions of dollars with studentloans and all that you know, to
come out and not even be ableto find a job in the industry
they studied in.

Todd (01:00:28):
Yeah.

Michael (01:00:28):
And have $200,000 worth of college debt.

Todd (01:00:32):
So, on Ash and Iron, there are no such things as shameless
plugs Like debt.
So, on Ash and Iron, there areno such things as shameless
plugs Like tell everybody aboutthis program about.

Michael (01:00:40):
what is it that you're doing?
Oh, so well, we haven't evengot to the fact that I own a
business now, so you?
Want to start there and thenwe'll segue into the shameless
plugs so I can back up.
My sister was married to thegeneral manager.
That's how I got the job at theForklift place.

Todd (01:00:53):
Tim, is that Tim?

Michael (01:00:54):
Tim okay, and they ended up going to get a divorce
and he made it real clearthere's no more favors from
brother-in-law.
But I never really looked at itlike I had any favors.
I genuinely feel that I earnedwhere I was at, but anyway, I
was supposed to have been pulledout of sale.
So if I went to set up all theequipment at the Volkswagen
assembly plant in Chattanoogaand get that maintenance
department going, then I wasgoing to train somebody to take

(01:01:17):
that position and the deal was Iwould go to sales to do that,
right, yeah, so that wassupposed to only be a year.
Two years later I'm like, hey,man, I've fulfilled exactly what
you asked me to do.
Please send anybody you could.
Uh, that has the aptitude thatI could train to take my
position, because you promisedme a sales position a year ago
and I'd like to do that.
Well, that's right.
At the same time as the divorceand they jacked around with my

(01:01:39):
pay as far as my time cards andstuff, and I'm like you know
what I said.
So they didn't pay me one week.
I'm like why didn't you have apaycheck?
Well, you didn't have your timecard turned in.
I said no, no, no, no,anthony's supposed to come get
my time cards every week becauseyou took my company vehicle,
right?
I'm not supposed to drive backand forth to the shop anymore.
And he's like, well, time cardwasn't there.

(01:01:59):
I said so you're telling me youpurposely didn't pay me because
my time card wasn't turned inwhen it's not my responsibility.
He's like yep, I said okay,this is what we're going to do.
I'm not coming to work tomorrow.
I'm going to purposely not cometo work tomorrow because you
purposely didn't pay me whenit's not my responsibility.
We'll see how this works.
I didn't go to work the nextday, right?
And of course you know theycall me and want my keys and all

(01:02:21):
that.
I'm like I'll give you the keyswhen you give me my paycheck.

Todd (01:02:25):
Yeah, fair trade yeah.

Michael (01:02:26):
Oh you're going to do this and I'm like I'm not going
to do any of that, you know.
So they gave me my check, Igave them their keys and they
fired me and I took.
So during that time I well, Ibought a house too, somewhere in
there, right?
So like I worked as many hoursas I could when I got out of
prison and a year and a halflater I'd saved enough money and
repaired my credit to the pointwhere I could buy a house

(01:02:48):
without a co-signer Nice Firsttime FHA loan.
So I bought the house and thatwas pretty cool.
I picked the first house Icould find that had a two-car
garage and it was at the top ofthe hill.
And I started welding because Iwanted to build a couple of
bicycles for my son and I somecrazy rat rod chopper bicycles
and built those together.

(01:03:09):
And then I just never stoppedand I kept buying and getting
more and more equipment andasking for this.

Todd (01:03:13):
Passion kicked in.

Michael (01:03:15):
Yeah, totally Like when the welding hood was down.
Nothing else mattered.
I couldn't go anywhere becauseI was on probation.
So I could stay at home andbuild cool shit, though, and
learn how to weld.
And I could have welded atTalladega.
That had a welding program, butI had no interest in it at the
time.
So when I first started welding, the forklift dealership would
give me small jobs to do and payme a little extra to do them.
And then by the time I wasgetting fired, I had just

(01:03:39):
completed a giant trellis forRock City.
Three local artists were invitedto put a bid on a permanent art
structure, and so I went upthere and I drew this two foot
by three foot drawing of allthese trellises and bench seats
and planters and stuff.
And the budget was 10 grand,right.
And I'm like, oh man, I'm goingto come in at $9,500 and get

(01:04:00):
almost all that Right.
So my my drawing, one right.
And then they asked one of myfriends that had done an art
install up there a year later ishe able to do this?
He's like he can do it, right.
So they called me and said well, you won the bid, you know.
And I'm like he can do it right.
And so they called me and saidwell, you won the bid, you know.
And I'm like, my heart sank.
I'm like fuck.
I had my hands and elbows upunderneath a forklift, at the

(01:04:21):
place where they kill thechickens.
I had chicken shit and feathersand stuff all over my hands and
I'm trying to answer the phonewith hydraulic oil on them and
stuff and my heart sunk.
I'm like fuck.
Now I got to build this, thisthing, right.
So, yeah, it took 11 months.
I worked every night and everyweekend for 11 months to build
this thing in my garage and hadto transport each up there piece

(01:04:42):
by piece and, uh, it cost Ithink twelve thousand five
hundred dollars in materials todo it.
So I learned some valuablelessons of what it is to account
for materials, to bid a job,you know, and you know be
careful.
What you, you know, know,promise, cause you have to
follow through, of course.
But um to, the moral of thatstory is, I ended up somehow

(01:05:02):
winning artist of the yearthrough the chamber of commerce
in Chattanooga for that project,and that was right.
At the time I was getting firedfrom that forklift job, and so I
took that, that um, that awardand um went to a fabrication
place and said look, you know,this is the equipment I have at
home.
I built this cool thing forRock City.
I just won artist of the yearfor it.

(01:05:23):
You know, I'd really like tolearn more about welding and
fabrication.
You know I have all the stuffat home I'm self-taught using
and they're like come on right.
So I had an instant job and Iworked there for like I don't
know two or three years until Irealized it would be another
five years before I had theopportunity of advancement and I
felt like I had learnedeverything I could up to that

(01:05:43):
point until that advancement andI wasn't willing to hang out
for five years.
So another opportunity to workin the fabrication industry
building hand railings andspiral staircases and fencing
panels and stuff came up.
So I took a lateral.
I didn't make any more money,right?
I offered a two-week notice atthat first place and I got to

(01:06:05):
tell you that was probably thebest place I've ever worked,
where the owner comes out andasks if their company's treating
you properly.
Wow.

Todd (01:06:11):
I mean, I've never been asked that before.
Yeah, so good people that'sgreat.

Michael (01:06:15):
And so when I turned my two week notice in, they made
me work 14 business days,offered me more money to stay.
And I'm like it's not about themoney, it's about the
advancement.
You know, can you tell me thatit'll be more faster than five
years before I can advance?
And they couldn't do that.
And so and I'm like, well, Ihave an opportunity to go learn
this new skills set.

(01:06:35):
You know, it's the same skillsbut a different thing, and
that's really interesting to meand I'd like to do that.
So they have been hugeadvocates of me.
They constantly send me work.
Anytime they retire a piece ofequipment, I'm first in line to
get it and they just like,basically, give it to me like
stupid prices.
And one of the brothers actuallystarted his own side

(01:06:55):
fabrication business whileworking the parents' business
there and he's getting ready togo to ministry school.
So he just gave me all hiscustomers recently.
He's like yeah, this customerdoes about 75K a year with me,
so huge hand up.
Wow, just from never burningthat bridge.

Todd (01:07:10):
It's that integrity too, that peace of just always doing
the right thing, and the trust.

Michael (01:07:21):
Yeah, I mean he cares about his customers like I do.
He's like Michael will, michaelwill do well for you, you know.
So it's been nice doing some ofhis work too.
But I was going to try to buythat hand railing business and
the guy said he'd sell it to me.
I'm like great, I'd like tohave a business, right, yeah,
but he was never willing toteach me the things that I
needed to know to run thatbusiness.

(01:07:41):
He wouldn't teach me how todraw, he wouldn't teach me how
to do the blueprints, you know.
He wouldn't teach me how to goout and measure.
And I'm like I see you say youwant to sell a business, but
you're really not interested inselling the business.
So there, was anotheropportunity that came up in the
forklift industry where I'd beable to be a product support
sales representative.
That means I dress nice and Igo to the office, I do all the
quotes for the servicedepartment and then I go out and
I try to get customers to signtheir trucks up on service and

(01:08:02):
things like that and I canproduce sales leads.
So I get little commissionshere and there plus a base
salary and I'm like, yeah, thisis this, this will give me
enough money to buy the last twothings I need to start my own
business, which was an enclosedtrailer for my mobile welding
and a $7,000 TIG welder I neededRight.
And then that's the last.
I already had everything else.

Todd (01:08:21):
Yeah.

Michael (01:08:22):
So as soon as I could afford that stuff, I got it and
I offered a two week notice andthey let me go that day Cause
like, uh, I had a servicemanager that was like right
above me and like I'd go in oneday.
I'm like, yes, today might bethe day.
He's like the day for what.
I'm like to see if I get thosefive big frocks over at this
place set up on service.
I'm like he's like, and that'sgood.

(01:08:42):
I'm like, yeah, he's like goodfor who Good for you or good for
us that have to go do the work.
I'm like, oh fuck, and I can'tdo it without your support.
So if he brought me a customer,that's fine, but if I go find
my own customers, he just viewedit as more work and he doesn't
get anything extra out of it.
It's just more workload on him.

(01:09:02):
So it just wasn't a good.
I understood real quick that,okay, I need to get what I need
to get out of this company formy goal and then I need to quit
and go do my thing.
Plus, they had me at home inthe garage building shit for all
their forklifts and stuff.
Like my day job was just in theway and Connie told me she
doesn't remember this part, butshe's like, if you can make $400
a week, you can quit your job.

(01:09:23):
And because she had a job whereshe could provide our insurance
and stuff, and I'm like, fuck,I can buy and sell stuff and
make 400 bucks a week, right,what am I going to lose?
Right, you know so I had asmall enough clientele and I
quit my job and started mobilewelding that night.
And we had a small buildingbehind our house that I built
for a temporary shop and thatlasted about a year before the

(01:09:46):
city came, gave me the pink cardto stop doing what I'm doing in
the backyard of a residentialarea because of the grinder
noise.
And the first time they came,I'm like whoa, this is my hobby
shop.
I have a job, I do forkliftstuff, you know so.
And the first time they came,I'm like whoa, this is my hobby
shop, I have a job, I doforklift stuff, you know so.
You don't see no forklifts.
You know, this is definitely myson, and that was truthful.
The second time they came, Ihad an employee.
I had utility trailers strungall across the yard.

(01:10:06):
You upgraded a little bit, itwas a little hard to deny.
I'm like possession man Can youjust give me?
They gave me 30 days to stop,so the city inspector was really
cool because I was justshooting straight.
I'm like look man, last timeyou came I swear to you it was
just a hobby, right, I did quitmy job and you know, the last 30

(01:10:27):
days I've started a businessbut I have a commercial property
man.
I need 30 more days and theygraciously gave that to me.
And then we moved into ourcommercial building.

Todd (01:10:36):
And I found that's probably true across the board.
With most people it's like ifyou just cut out the BS, you
just tell them exactly what'sgoing on.
Most people yeah, I was sittingthere thinking like am I really
going to believe what I'm aboutto say?
I do believe it.
I think most people, whetherthey're nice all the time or

(01:10:59):
nice on occasion, are willing tobe like I mean, he shot
straight with me.
Yeah, why not?
Like most people.

Michael (01:11:06):
So the whole social media thing has really been a
valuable tool for me in mybusiness, like Instagram.
So we started writing.
So, since I got real good atwriting in prison and I'm like
fuck, I wrote an article forthis magazine.
Why can't we do it for others?
We got interested in rat rods,right, and so I had just built a

(01:11:26):
rat rod and I thought for ourlisteners.

Todd (01:11:29):
What is that exactly?

Michael (01:11:30):
It's a modified vehicle .
It doesn't have to be realshiny and painy, you might find
a lot of rust and stuff on it,but it's still customizing a
vehicle, I guess would say,without you know spending $2
trillion on it with a nice paintjob, and you can go out and
thrash on it and have a goodtime and not have to worry about
putting a dent in it or burningthe tires off and getting you
know melted rubber on the backof your cab, like I had and all

(01:11:51):
that stuff.
It culture of unfinished hotrods, I guess you could say, or
a mixture between art cars andhot rods.
It's like you're doing it morefor the muscle and less for the
aesthetic, more for thecreativity, I think.
Yeah, I like that.
So you'll take two differentvehicles and put them together
and make it look like somethingcool.
Frankenstein, that's fun.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
So we started writing for RatRod Magazine.

(01:12:14):
My wife would do thephotography and then I'd do all
the writing and we'd do specialfeatures of cars and then we'd
go do event coverage and thingslike that.
Well, somehow in the process ofthat I gained the attention of
Robbie Wolfe from AmericanPickers.
Wow, because we wrote forseveral magazines.
We wrote for a magazine out ofWashington State called Built
Not Bought that no longer existsOld, old school rods.

(01:12:36):
And so Robbie saw that I was.
I did some work for old schoolrods and he uh wanted his 32, um
car, 32 truck or something likethat he had uh featured in a
magazine.
So, um, he actually uh broughtus out to Davenport, iowa and
put us in a really nice hotellike a sweet hotel with hot tub.

(01:12:56):
And we brought up one of mywife's friends that was a model,
a pinup, and we went and did aphoto shoot with his car and
we've made friends since then.
So the automotive industry hasreally given us a lot of really
great friends where we go, meetup and do different car shows
and things like that.
It was a lot of fun so that'svery cool, all right.

Todd (01:13:17):
So, and things like that, it was a lot of fun.
That's very cool, all right.
So you are now owning.
You own your own business.
You pulled the trigger, you hityour goal.
You bought the stuff you needed.
I'm assuming you left that lastcompany, started your own thing
.
What is your thing?
What is your niche?
What's the thing you're reallygood at, the thing you're known
for, the thing you love to do?

Michael (01:13:37):
Probably problem solving right.
So basically, how I look at itis a customer will call me, so I
come in.
Most relevant when you can'tbuy what you want, right, if you
can't buy this super heavy-dutything that you need, right.
And I've tried blueprint work,I've tried production work and

(01:13:57):
it's all really boring andhaving to build to somebody
else's rules and it's you know.
I adequate what I do, you know,with kids talking about Legos.
It's like you know what I do islike playing with Legos and when
I can't find the Lego I want, Ijust go build it right, so that
one Lego that you can't find tofinish your project isn't an
issue when you can make them.
So when we go to work with kidswhich is another conversation I

(01:14:20):
always have a table full ofLegos and I'm watching the kids
at the table and if they're bigenough to put a welding hood on
them, I'll take them and bringthem over to the welding table
and let them start weldingaluminum or stainless.
And we've been doing that forabout what?
10 years, at least 10 years,and it's been pretty cool
because, like a kid will comewhen he's six, never even knew

(01:14:42):
what welding was, gets exposedto welding the first time comes
back the next three years, justall these all little jimmy's
talked about for the last year'swelding.
So let's go see mike at theworld of wheels, right.
And so over a period of time,you know that kid gets into high
school, he's in the high schoolwelding program and then a
couple years later he comes toparents and I'm like well,
where's little Jimmy?
Little Jimmy's off on thepipeline.

(01:15:04):
He's got a brand new truck,he's doing great.
He's got his own place.
That's cool.

Todd (01:15:20):
So just that transfer of information and inspiration has
allowed me to really positivelyimpact some young men and women
that never knew that this was anoption for themselves.
Yeah, and that's where theprogram really takes off.

Michael (01:15:26):
Right Is that you're empowering younger generations
to find and discover a skillthat really helped you to create
your own, yeah, so when I getto talk to a large group of kids
, I tell them about my crazypast, I tell them what life is
like now, I share some of myfinances with them, I tell them
about a bunch of the differenttoys that I have.
And I say I'm not telling youthis to brag, but I'm telling

(01:15:48):
you this that I was in federalprison not long ago and I
discovered welding.
That turned into a business,and now I have an amazing
lifestyle.
I travel, I have toys.
You know this is how much moneywe made last year.
I don't get to keep all of it,you know.
But who else?
Where else can you go to dothis without a college degree?
There's absolutely nothing wrongwith working with your hands,
you know, you know, if you know,if you want to go to college

(01:16:10):
and you want to be a brainsurgeon, probably a good idea to
go to college.
Right, you want to do an artmajor and think you're going to
get out and have some kind ofreally great six figure income
being an art major.
Think twice, yeah, you know.
You know you're young enoughright now to try this and fail
and still be good on time.

Todd (01:16:26):
Right, that's such a good.
That's such a good pointbecause time like, the older you
get, the faster the time goesby.

Michael (01:16:34):
Well, not only that, the older you get, the more
responsibilities that you have.
You can't take those gambles.
You end up stuck in a job thatyou freaking hate to go to every
day, because you got a familyto support, because you have no
choice.

Todd (01:16:43):
Yeah, yep, it's.
You know, I've had to do jobsthat I did not want to do, that
I physically probably shouldn'thave been doing at the age I was
doing it, but I didn't have anoption.
It was like that's what was infront of me and I've got a
family to take care of and I hadto, and I've I've been there

(01:17:03):
and it sucks.

Michael (01:17:04):
You don't want that.
My son and I still have thisconversation.
It's like you know.
I tried to have him work withus and I was paying him way more
than he could make anywhereelse.
Right, and I said but he wasalways the type that would try
to do find the easiest way.
And you know, he worked for mefor maybe a year and he came to
me one day and he's like I wantto find a job that's easier.

(01:17:28):
And I had to really bite mytongue and really think before I
said anything, cause it reallyangered me and I told him.
I said your entire life you'vetried to find the easiest way to
do things.
I said look around you.
Do you think that our lifestyleand what we have as a family
came the easy way?
No, it didn't.
Seven day weeks, 60 hour weeks,you know I mean there's a lot
of blood, sweat and tear and itwas every day of five years

(01:17:49):
before I had anything left overto even think about getting a
toy.
Everything went back into thebusiness.
Everything went into operatingthe business more than anything,
because I don't have a businessdegree.
So when I, when I go talk withkids now, I'm like if you think
that you want to beself-employed someday.
Learn from my mistake.
Get a basic accounting degreeso you know how to do QuickBooks
right, cause that's 800 bucks amonth to pay someone else to do

(01:18:10):
and get a small business degree.
You have the time.
Take two years, go to acommunity college, just do those
things A year on each one andthen figure out what business
you want to do.
Yeah, you'll be so much furtherahead than I was, and then maybe
you would have more rewardsbefore five years.

Todd (01:18:25):
You know, your advice to your son reminded me a lot of
like Dave Ramsey.
Do you know who Dave Ramsey is?
Yeah, I know of him.
He has this, saying that hesays more so pertaining to money
, but he says right now, whileyou're trying to get out of debt
, you've got to live like nobodyelse is living so that later
you can live like nobody else isliving.
And it kind of reminds me ofthat.
It's like these seven-day weeks, these 80-hour weeks, you're

(01:18:50):
doing that now so that later youcan pay the people that are
going to do that, if that's whatyou choose to do.

Michael (01:18:57):
And I don't feel like I'm building a legacy with my
business.
I've used it really more thananything to fund the lifestyle
for me and my wife and my sonwhen he was living with us.
So my wife sacrifices and hasto have a job dealing with the
general public, and it's notalways nice People suck to deal
with every day, and so she'sbeen at the same place for a

(01:19:17):
long time and she has a lot ofvacation time.
So it's really on my agendathat she's rewarded with trips
and things.
And I'm still selfish sometimesand I try to make those trips.
A lot of those trips are morebased around my interests, you
know, but we still go do thingsfun together and that's her
reward for her hard work, forkeeping a job so that we can
have health coverage insurance.

(01:19:39):
And you know she does a reallygood job at saving and I'm the
guy that has the bad moneyproblems.
I'm like I make a lot of money.
I can spend some money right, Ifeel entitled to it somehow,
instead of just like stacking itback in a savings account for
my bank.
But I'd like to think I'mgetting a little better.
Baby D-D-D-DJ, you're gettinggood before the good getting

(01:20:01):
gone.
Yeah, up next is Savannah,savannah.

Todd (01:20:08):
I like how you went from Sierra to Savannah.
That's so funny.
Next is going to be Sabrina, soyeah, so, anyways, man, I
really have thoroughly enjoyedthis Same Like, more than I even
thought I could.

Michael (01:20:26):
Yeah.

Todd (01:20:26):
And had no idea what to expect.
Definitely did not expect to besitting across the table from
an ex-felon drug addict, drugdealer, strip club.

Michael (01:20:36):
DJ.

Todd (01:20:37):
Strip club DJ, strip club, dj.
But I'm but wait, there's more,but I'm grateful that I am.
I genuinely I hate this.
I'm going to say something onair here.
I hate when people come to meand tell me oh, you're gonna
love this person.

(01:20:58):
Like I immediately like, gotthis thing inside me.
That's like they probably suck.
I probably won't like them, butI'm glad that duane said that
to me.
He said when, when michaelbrandt leaves your house, he's
like I promise you guys aregoing to be great friends and I
gotta say something about duane.

Michael (01:21:14):
Yeah, yeah, go for, yeah, Go for it.
So in my welding andfabrication online endeavors,
you know like the ultimatecherry on the top would be to be
a Miller welders partner Right.
And so that's a really hardthing to get because everybody
you know not everybody, but alot of people would really like
to have that opportunity Right,but a lot of people would really

(01:21:34):
like to have that opportunityRight.
So I went.
The best way I could figure outto do it was I need to go to
the trade shows.
I need to go to the trade showswhere the marketing, the people
over marketing, are at Rightand I need to go sell myself to
them.
I need to go build arelationship with them.
So you know, we've been goingto SEMA, which is an automotive

(01:21:55):
thing out in Las Vegas, forquite a few years and they're
always there.
The main big waves are alwaysthere.
So I went the first year andhad a brochure of what my
business does and talked to thelady, introduced myself and told
her I'd love to become a Millerpartner.
I watched these other guysdoing it and I felt like I had
something unique, special anddifferent to offer, Because we
do so many different things.

(01:22:15):
We're not just doing the samething over and over and over,
like a lot of companies do.
So she said well, how manypeople do you have on social
media following?
I'm like, at the time back tothe story Robbie Wolf was the
one that told me I needed to getInstagram and I was like,
pretty much anti, you knowsocial media.
And I'm like, okay, Robbie,I'll do it.
And so glad that he told methat you know.

(01:22:35):
And then so I told her I had700.
She's like well, that's reallynot enough followers to justify
sharing expensive equipment andthis.
And that she's like work onbuilding your social media up
and come see me next year.
So I did the whole year, man, Idid everything I could to build
my social media.
And I went back with 7,000followers the next time and she
was like, ah, you're still notquite there.

(01:22:55):
You know, we're interested,We've been watching your stuff,
Right.
And so I'm like, man, this isgoing to take 20 years.
So plan B was to use LinkedInas a tool.
I'm like, okay, so I want to bepartnered with Miller, so I'm
going to try to make friendswith every person I can find
that works at.
Miller through LinkedIn, right,nice, yeah, so Dwayne was one of
those people.
I didn't know anything abouthim, where he lived or nothing.

(01:23:18):
You know he lived in Birmingham.
I found out later but he wasthe first person from Miller to
reach out to me and take meseriously, to come visit me to
support me.
He was supporting me withMiller equipment before I even
had a partnership, and had itnot been for Dwayne, I would
probably still not have thatpartnership with Miller Electric
.
He's like these marketingpeople work for Miller and I

(01:23:39):
think that you would be a greatfit for Miller, right?
So he went to bat for me.
He pushed it through and madeit happen.
He's like we want MichaelBrandt and it's just been an
amazing relationship since thenand I've helped him with a lot
of things.
He went through a divorce andhe got real sick and I took him
to the hospital and helped himmove and just reciprocated as a
really good friend and he'snever forgot that, and neither

(01:24:00):
have I.

Todd (01:24:05):
So anytime Dwayne needs something, I got you, bro.
One of those kinds of things.
Dwayne is a special individual,and I'm learning this through
you too.
It's like.
The people that Dwaynesurrounds himself with is like a
little tiny circle, like thishe's very selective.
And I'm honored to be in thatsmall list of people, guess who
got Dwayne into Instagram?

Michael (01:24:22):
You did.
He was anti-Instagram.
I'm like bro, bro, no, no, no,no, there's no bullshit.
You get to choose what you lookat.
You know, and he's taken offwith it like I did.
You know, he's created a ton ofopportunities for himself.
That's cool and well-deservingrightfully so, Absolutely.
He gives more than he takes,and I try to be that kind of
friend.
Sometimes, it's hard running abusiness and those favors always

(01:24:45):
come at the most inopportunetimes.
But you show up, man, becauseyou know that person would for
you.
That's true, and I'm one of thelucky guys that have 10, 15
relationships like that.
Most people are lucky to haveone or two.

Todd (01:24:57):
Yeah.

Michael (01:24:58):
You know, and it makes life worth living.

Todd (01:25:00):
Yep, I've got about four or five guys in my corner that
like no matter what, like Icould call them up worst case
scenario, and I'll throw my wifein there, five guys and my wife
and it's like no matter what.
It's like no matter how bad Imess up, no matter how big the
situation is.
I know they've got my back Like, and that's special, you know.

Michael (01:25:19):
I'd like, if we have time, I'd like to talk about one
more subject.
Absolutely, please do.
Okay.
So mentorship, oh, yes, somentorship is really important
to me and one of my best mentorsis a man by the name of Von
Hotrod.
Okay, von Hotrod is probablyone of the most famous
automotive hand pinstripers.
He does the pinstriping onstuff, right.

Todd (01:25:39):
Oh.

Michael (01:25:39):
I've seen that.
Yeah, it's really a special artform, right?

Todd (01:25:43):
Yeah.

Michael (01:25:44):
So it took years for him to trust me enough to go get
him a hot dog right, he's acelebrity, right, yeah, for sure
.

Todd (01:25:49):
So he's like all the time.

Michael (01:25:50):
What does this person want?
You know I'm a celebrity, youknow this and that, Well, over a
period of probably four or fiveyears, of going to making a
point, to go wherever he's atand asking him how do you do
what you do?
I want to emulate, you know, Iwant to be the type of person
that you are, you know, in myindustry, and just asking all
the questions to where, like,he'll share a little bit of

(01:26:10):
information.
A year later, he sees me.
He sees how I apply theinformation.
Year later, he sees me, he seeshow I apply the information.
He gives me a little bit moreright and so, like he's, let me
shadow him at SEMA, which is ahuge deal because he's going and
making all these deals and youknow stuff that most people
don't know, you know.
And then invited us out to hisbirthday party, you know, in
California, and we just show up,you know, and when, every time
he's in town, I, whatever youneed, I'll come with you, I feed

(01:26:32):
you, you know whatever, andjust been, have been good
friends.
So he's the one that got meinto working with kids.
He saw something in me that Ididn't see in myself, and that's
my story and my amazing abilityto be a craftsman and that I
had something to offer the nextgeneration.
So he challenged me.
He's like next year, come here,talk to Sonny, come to World of
Wheels, set up a booth, teachkids how to weld.
I'm like really.

(01:26:52):
He's like, yeah, and so I did,and that's what I've been doing
since.

Todd (01:26:55):
So if it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't be in that
situation and remind me his nameagain Vaughn Vaughn Hot Rod,
hot Rod.
Yeah, that's his official legallast name too.
He's had his name changed tothat.

Michael (01:27:05):
Yeah, it should be If it's not.
I was going to be so pissed, soinsignificant that I just
haven't even remembered.

Todd (01:27:13):
We don't want to know how about.

Michael (01:27:14):
I didn't even remember.
It doesn't even matter.
No, you're not that to me,you're this guy.
That's awesome, right?
So I talk about this with kids.
You know, it's like if youdon't have really great things
in life and you strive to wantmore, find the people that have
what you want.
Ask questions, yeah, you know,apply that information, let them
see that information, and thenthey'll keep sharing more and

(01:27:35):
more.
You came from a broken family.
Well, guess what?
So did I?
So what did we do?
We surrounded ourselves withpeople that had healthy
relationships and we emulatethat and we ask questions and we
apply.
Right, I said so.
If your mentor is telling yousomething that you already know,
be humble, listen, don't tellhim.

(01:28:00):
Yeah, I already know that,because what he was going to
tell you right behind, thatwould knock your socks off and
save you years of heartache.
Yeah, you know, be humble, belisten, get the information.
You can find the next willing,deserving person that can do
something with this informationand pass it on.
And I have that now in my lifewith my, my employee, this 22,
and like doing great and Itaught him all his welding, and
then I can kick back and watchhim teach other kids and just
again, that internal feeling ofgiving back unselfishly, you
know, is just like one of thebest drugs.

(01:28:20):
That's not drugs.

Todd (01:28:22):
Yeah, bro, you're a champion.
I heard this from Alex Hermosiyesterday.
Literally, he said thedifference.
They did an audit of all theworld champions in different
sports, asking them all thesequestions, and then all the
people who played sports thatwanted to be a world champion
but believe they could never bea world champion.
And the only difference betweenthe two they all had the drive,

(01:28:44):
they all had the passion, theyall had all of it.
The only difference was thechampions never turned it off,
like there was no quit, likethere was never any.
Like oh, on the weekend, likeI'm excited to go out to this
bar and have a drink with myfriends.
It was it never shut off.
It was like the weekend, dude,I can wake up and practice, I
can study, it's like it.

(01:29:05):
Just there was no off.

Michael (01:29:07):
Yeah.

Todd (01:29:07):
That was the only difference.

Michael (01:29:08):
Well, you know, when I took the, that commercial
building was a huge undertaking.
You know, failure really wasn'tan option that made me work
seven days a week, crazy hourswhere my wife had to bring me
dinner at freaking midnight fromTaco Bell just so I could make
that next commitment, you knowso there's a lot of that people
don't understand.
You know the sacrifices.

(01:29:28):
How many times we've gonewithout money or groceries to
meet the obligations that I'vemade to my employees.
You know, without them I can't.
You know.
So a lot of people think, oh,you're a business owner, you're
rich and just like this, andthat I'm like no, we're not
really rich, we have good credit, we have a credit line for when
things get tough.
You know that we can borrowagainst, but after a certain

(01:29:48):
period of time there is stuffleft over.
You know, one of the coolestthings about being self-employed
is being able to take my dogsto work every day.
How many people get to taketheir dogs to work every day?
Yeah, you know, I mean, if Iwant to go travel and I can
afford to go travel or I haveenough credit to go travel and
come back and get caught up thethe uh being just being able to
do that way out risks thenegatives.

Todd (01:30:10):
Yeah, no, no for sure, and and you know what on on this
podcast.
I want to just take a second tohighlight something you just
mentioned Our wives and ourspouses are detrimental to what
we do, beyond what I think mostpeople realize.
Kp obviously I can't speakwhere like last night is an

(01:30:35):
example of it.
She left her lunch leftovers inthe fridge for me because she
knew I was going to be workinginto dinner and she had to go
pick up the kids, and so it'slike she's.
I can't pick up the kids.
I have work I got to finish,and so it's a partnership, like
she's.
Like you know what I'll go pickup the kids.
I'll leave my lunch that Ididn't finish here for you for

(01:30:58):
dinner.
I'll get them fed.
I'll come pick you.
We'll come pick you up, it'slike you know.
So I'll be working till eighto'clock at night, which doesn't
sound like long, but when youworked 8am to 8pm and you're
just selling beard products,that's a long day.
And so it's like you know, andI'm so grateful for her and I
always do my best to like giveher that recognition.
But it's like I just want tospeak to the listeners.

(01:31:18):
Like, guys, if you're listeningto this and you're a guy and
you've got a wife in your lifeand just take a second and stop
and like literally reflect onthat, that like your wife
probably is helping out morethan you've maybe given her
appreciation for, Just take asecond and show her some love,
Like go rub her feet tonight andlike make her some dinner and
tell her order dinner.

(01:31:39):
You don't even have to cook.
Like I'm not even asking you tobe an overachiever, Just
overachiever, overachiever Samedifference.

Michael (01:31:46):
Can we have a moment of silence for Connie Cool Beans?

Todd (01:31:48):
Yeah.

Michael (01:31:50):
Love you, Connie Cool Beans.

Todd (01:31:54):
And another moment of silence for KP.
And another moment of silencefor KP.
But yeah, it's wives make theworld go round.
They really do, and I'm sograteful.

Michael (01:32:05):
I'm grateful you got a wife she'd be a better wife if
she get into scuba spearfishingyou need more passion.

Todd (01:32:18):
Get it while the getting's good.
Get it while the getting's good.

Michael (01:32:21):
Get it while the getting's good, before the good
fishing's gone, wrap it up.

Todd (01:32:26):
All right.
Well, I think that is such agreat spot to stop on.
If you don't mind, can youshare?
Or if you want to share yoursocial media, how do people
follow?
You see what you've got goingon.

Michael (01:32:37):
So everything is GarageBound L-L-C with a B
B-O-U-N-D.
So we've got GarageBoundcom isour out-of-date website.
We have GarageBound L-L-C onYouTube.
We have a fishing page, soggyDoggy Fishing on YouTube.
Both those channels are both onInstagram TikTok and Michael.

Todd (01:33:00):
Brandt on LinkedIn.
All right, you guys heard itfrom the man himself, michael
Brandt.
Thank you so much, brother,it's been an absolute pleasure.

Michael (01:33:06):
Thank you for the opportunity.
I appreciate it, yeah.

Todd (01:33:08):
I consider you a friend.
After hearing that whole story,there's no way we can't be
friends.
I will definitely be keeping intouch with you.
Sounds great.
Do you want to nominate thenext guest live on the show, or
would you rather do that inprivate?

Michael (01:33:19):
No, no, I already asked for permission, just like
Dwayne did.
Okay, yeah, my friend, ian L,is that a Chattanooga?

Todd (01:33:26):
Ian L.
How do you spell his last name?
A-l-e.

Michael (01:33:38):
Oh, like ale, relatively new friend over the
last year, but he has a similarstory that I do.
I'm sure it's completelydifferent.
He's a really reserved person.
So when he calls me friend Ireally appreciate that, because
I don't think he has many realfriends that he can trust.
And so he's how I got my boatthat I'm in love with and he's
been a good friend.
Nice, all right.
Well, I will definitely hitwith and he's been a good friend
.

Todd (01:33:56):
Nice.
All right, Well, I willdefinitely hit him up.
I'll get his contactinformation from you, Connie.
It was a pleasure to meet youguys and thank you for being a
part.

Michael (01:34:05):
No, thank you, thank you.
Yeah, well, that good getting'sgood before that good getting's
gone, gone, gone.

Todd (01:34:11):
I'm going to end it on that.

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Michael Brandt | Federal Prison, Welding & the Power of Redemption

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Michael Brandt | Federal Prison, Welding & the Power of Redemption