March 31, 2025 • 38 mins
Tami sits down with Mizrahi comedian Rapha Manajem to talk about his upcoming Melbourne International Comedy Festival show, The Salmon Was Good. Rapha who proudly claims a Mizrahi/Ashkenazi – and potentially Sri Lankan Jewish – heritage dives into the chaos of identity, family and his most memorable experience as a Jewish youth movement leader.
As one of many Aussie-Jewish comedians lighting up MICF this year (alongside Jude Perl, Josh Glanc, and Jacob Sacher), Rapha gives us a taste of what to expect from his show. Did we mention he’s Mizrahi?
Articles relevant to this episode:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/five-jewish-laughs-at-melbournes-comedy-festival
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/should-mum-or-dad-have-the-safe-sex-chat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Are you interested in issues affecting Jews in
Australia, the Middle East andthe world at large, but
struggling to keep up with thenews cycle?
If you answered yes, thenyou've come to the right place.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Nash Lawrence and in this podcast series, your
third cousin, tammy Sussman, andI call on experts and each
other to address all theignorant questions that you
might be too ashamed to ask.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Join us as we have a go at cutting through some
seriously chewy and dewy topics.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast.
Ash, shame to admit.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Hello everyone, I'm Tammy.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I'm Dash.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Dash tell everyone what you do at the Jewish
Independent.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm Executive Director.
What do you do at the JewishIndependent Tammy Sussman?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I make this podcast, I write articles.
I am the Jewish Independent'snew agony aunt or cousin for
their monthly sex andrelationships column Sex and the
Shtetl.
But you know, if I had a magicwand, I would be the Jewish
Independent's full-time courtjester.
(01:25):
Dash, do you know that courtjesters were proper jobs in
medieval and Renaissance courts?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, I do yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I've been doing a bit of-.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of reading up on
court jesters recently.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, my son has quite a fascination with
different historicalcivilizations and he's aware
that, yes, court jesters werethe royal family's form of
entertainment.
As long as we have evolved tohave forms of humour, we've
(02:04):
looked to other human beings tobring us some positivity and
light during times of struggleor war, as was the case with
court jesters during the earliertimes.
You know, help the king torelieve the king of the stresses
of dealing with whatevertroubles or conflicts.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Dash, how old is your son?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He is five and a half .
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Five and a half, and he's taken an interest in
historical civilizations.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, renaissance medieval Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Chip off the old block.
He wants to go much furtherback than even I can go.
Okay, yeah, does your son knowwhether women were also allowed
to be court jesters, or was itjust a male occupation?
Because I'm pretty sure yeah Iwas born in the wrong point in
history.
If I was around in medieval andrenaissance times, I could have
(03:08):
been a full-time court jesterand entertainer for royalty and
nobility.
I could have used comedy, music, storytelling.
I think they also had to useacrobatics.
That's not my strong suit and Ithink there's a lot of noble
characters at the JewishIndependent and I think that the
(03:30):
Jewish Independent wouldbenefit greatly from having an
in-house jester.
So you're executive directorand I'm still unsure as to what
that role entails.
I have a feeling it's got to dowith the money.
Like you figure out where it'sallocated.
Is that your job?
That's one of the jobs yep,okay, so you're sure there's no
(03:53):
room for movement.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
For the TGI court, jester, yeah, look, it wasn't a
position that was on thestrategic plan for the next
three years.
But now that you're sort ofpart of the organisation and we
see you every week and I doagree, you do provide some value
in the way of comedy andentertainment will you bring the
(04:20):
laughs?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
That sounds to me like you're going to think about
it.
I'm considering it, Okay.
So the reason why jesters areon my mind, Dash, is because the
Melbourne International ComedyFestival is upon us.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I've already got my tickets.
I'm going to a few shows.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How do you choose which shows you're going to go
to?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It's a very good question.
You normally go on referralrecommendation from a friend or
someone that you trust yeah butthis year it's it's a bit of
potluck.
I've just found a few shows thatI like the look of and then
watched some youtube clips.
And yeah, like I've got afriend who always goes to the
(05:05):
comedy festival and he's gotquite a high bar for comedy or
at least he'd like to think andhe's also a listener to this
show, and I shared with him afew of the shows I wanted to see
and he was like, nah, not mything.
And then so I shared a couplemore and I said, what about
(05:26):
these?
And he was like, yep, lock itin, I like it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, that's one strategy.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, another technique that you could use is
my mother's strategy.
And it's actually a techniqueor a tactic used by a lot of
Jewish boomers particularly.
You could categorise shows intoJewish or not Jewish.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, right, only interested in seeing the Jewish
performers.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Correct.
Use a bit of positivediscrimination.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And you say I'm going to support the Jewish comedians
.
Love it At the MelbourneInternational Comedy Festival.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, we've got all of three or four in this year's
festival.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
No, there's more.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh is there, Sorry I made a list.
You made a list.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Jews don't really like being on a list.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And not all of these people have given me their
consent.
They might not even want to beon the Jewish comedian list, but
their consent.
They might not even want to beon the Jewish comedian list, but
you know what?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Fuck it.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I'm doing them a favour.
Sorry, John Safran.
Oh, I didn't put John Safran onthe list.
Nah, his show's already soldout.
I saw a video from him lastnight that apparently he
committed to a show before heknew that it was on a major
Jewish festival.
Yeah, yeah, I saw that say tosay tonight passover, so he's
had to book another one.
No, ruby wax is in town withher show.
(06:52):
I'm not as well as I thought Iwas.
Wow, josh glance, who we've hadon the show, will be performing
family man ata alumni robinreynolds, absolute darling ATA
alumni Robin Reynolds AbsoluteDarling.
What Doesn't Kill you is thename of her show.
Jess Fook Sex Jokes for Women.
And Rafa Manajem the Salmon WasGood, which is playing at Bar
(07:16):
1806 from the 9th to the 20th ofApril.
Dash, I had a bit of a chatwith Rafa.
Now I know I originally pitchedit to you as an interview, but
I think what it became was likepart interview, part fever dream
.
I just want to put that outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Fever dream with Rafa Great.
I'm sorry I couldn't have beena part of it.
I don't know how much value Icould have added to that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think yesterday in particular you could have added
quite a bit of value, becauseRafa and I were all over the
place.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Oh were you.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was in charge of getting things back on track,
back into some kind of linearnarrative.
Yeah, I did my best.
Yeah, this chat slash interviewsometimes he interviewed me
slash fever dream.
I think it'll be a nice breakfrom the pretty shit news cycle.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So have you given a bio on Rafa?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
His was an active bio .
I read it with him so I'm noteven going to give it to you now
.
It's in the interview.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Love it.
I want to hear more, so let'slisten to this conversation
between Tammy and Rafa Manajem.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Rafa Manajem, thank you so much for joining us on A
Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Thanks for having me, huge fan of the show.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
No, you're not yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Ask me what my favourite episode is.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
What's your favourite episode?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
All of them.
I love them all equally, can'tseparate them.
They were fantastic.
How long have you been stood upby Dash?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Does that disappoint you.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, I thought you got the whole one-two punch
thing between the two of you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I know You're just stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Can you please write a complaint and send it to the
Jewish Independent, because sofar all the complaints we get
are about me and I'd really liketo even the playing field.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What complaints do you get?
You're so lovely.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Thank you for saying that, but there was an episode
where we interviewed AlexRivchin and his wife, vicky
Rivchin, and the whole premiseof that interview was that it
was going to be a lightheartedone.
The community needed a bit oflight, and so I asked him a lot
of personal questions.
(09:44):
I asked him about his skincareregime as a you know, nod to the
fact that women often get askedthose questions.
I wanted to flip the script.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I thought it was a nod to his unbelievable face.
The first time I met him, I waslike who designed you, da Vinci
?
You look like your car fromMarvel and he's like I'm
Ukrainian.
And I'm like who designed you,da Vinci?
You look like your car fromMarvel and he's like I'm
Ukrainian.
I'm like you're Ukrainian.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What the.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I just got lost in his eyes.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I asked his wife what it was like for her to have her
husband be thrust into thespotlight on Mardi Gras and
spontaneously become a gayJewish icon.
I asked her if that was on herbingo card for 2024.
And so I feel that these wereall really valid, pressing
questions and some listenersfelt that I derailed that
(10:35):
interview and did not giveenough weight.
At least you know people arelistening.
That's amazing Look.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
At least you know people are listening.
That's amazing.
Look, if you have a Jewishbased podcast and you are not
getting complaints, are you evenworking?
What are you doing?
Seinfeld has this whole bitabout.
You know his favorite activityis complaining.
You know he doesn't like anyactivity.
What he likes is discussing theactivity after.
(11:01):
I think it's very much a partof our culture as well.
And hey, at least they'recomplaining about something that
isn't harrowing for 15 minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You're doing a great service.
Keep doing that.
Thank you, Rafa, so much.
Usually what I would do in aninterview situation like this is
I would tell you that Dash andI had already gone through your
bio beforehand.
But when you sent me your bio,Rafa, I felt like it was
something that needed a littlebit of unpacking, which is a
term I've also had a complaintabout.
(11:34):
They just say explain, likestop being so American.
So I felt like your bio wasmore of an activity I felt.
So let's go through thistogether.
Rafa Manajem is a Jewish comicand writer from Melbourne.
(11:56):
Rafa's creative writing methodsare derived from an ancient
Tibetan tradition.
Every morning at 4am, he drivesto the Dandenong Ranges to
meditate and write, citing thathis best work comes from being
amongst nature.
It's not so much the rustle oftrees or the flow of the streams
, it's more that it's anexcellent place to find leeches,
and if he loses enough blood hegets lightheaded.
And it's only in that anemicstate of consciousness that his
(12:18):
spiritual guide, Tom Gleeson,reveals himself himself, often
in a straight jacket, but neverin shoes.
We have some internationallisteners, Rafa.
Are you able to tell them whoTom Gleeson is and how important
he is to Australians?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Tom Gleeson is a successful Australian comedian
and he has sort of a hostileengagement quiz show.
He's just a, I think, a veryAustralian classic comic who's
won some TV awards and also myspiritual guide on these
journeys.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
In 2016, Rafa famously led the corporate
campaign for the right to wearsandals in office environments,
accusing the human resourceindustrial complex of being
anti-shu and Eurocentric.
When I read that, I thoughtit's plausible.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Well, this is the fantastic thing about language
and having an understanding of,in particular, political and
ideological language and howit's used.
The great blessing of doing anarts degree is that what it
trains you to do is basicallymake an intellectual argument
about the most absurd things, ifyou want.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Rafi studied international relations at the
University of Queensland.
You graduated with a minor inpeace studies and a major in
global conflict.
Major in global conflict.
Your professors described youas informed and possibly Sri
Lankan.
Anything more to say on that?
(13:56):
He's shaking his head.
He's forgotten.
This is not a visual medium.
Okay, I'll move on then.
In 2023, rafa received arunner-up title for the National
Raw Comedy Competition whichaired on SBS.
I've seen it, but there weretwo others awarded the same
title, so while he might tellpeople he came second, he also
came fourth.
In any case, he lost.
(14:17):
Do you identify as a loser or awinner?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
more broadly, I think I'm sort of off the spectrum.
I'm sort of in the corner doingmy own thing, maybe.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
That's a hard question, because if I say loser
, it's like, okay, this guy'sgot.
If I say winner, it's like, oh,this guy's a bit up himself.
So it's a real trap question.
Do you identify as a winner ora loser, tammy?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well done.
That was really clever.
To flip it back onto me, I feellike with literal competitions
I'm a winner.
I won a Mickey Mouse backpackin primary school in the raffle
in year six.
Yeah, I won tickets to RobbieWilliams.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
When, what era?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I was 16.
Robbie Williams when what era?
I was 16.
I went with a boyfriend and hehad diarrhea and I spent most of
the concert.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, that must have been some exciting concert.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Waiting outside yes, the cubicles, so I missed most
of the concert.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Did you stay with him after the diary?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, that made me love him even more.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
This is such a Jewish love story.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, I won a night stay at the Sofitel Hotel with
buffet breakfast.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay With buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
How do you win all this stuff?
You just want to entercompetitions.
Sorry, you said want to entercompetitions.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Sorry, you said with the buffet breakfast.
If there's no buffet breakfast,then what is the fucking point?
It's all about the buffetbreakfast.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
No, I'm with you.
Hey, there's not a hill I'mgoing to die on.
How are you winning all thisstuff?
What's going on here?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's just like raffles and I'm not going out of
my way to enter competitionsthis is why people think we
control everything.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
This is it's implausible so I shouldn't admit
it.
Yeah, in the literal sense ofthe national world competition.
I I lost, but but this thing, Iwas in it, right, so you had to
win five times to get to thatpoint and um, I also think
there's something surreal abouthaving a competition about
comedy, because it's a verysubjective thing and it's a
(16:26):
absurd reality to find yourselfin a position in front of a
thousand people cracking jokesand making people laugh and that
feels very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Good, that was a very measured response.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Who won that year?
Wonderful comedian Henry Yan,and he's so funny and so sweet.
And the next year me andWilliam Wang as well another
Victorian comic.
We all got to do the ComedyFestival's Comedy Zone selection
.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That was next in your bio.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So we spent a month togetherand just bonding and it was such
a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Oh, excellent.
You jumped the gun In 2024,.
You were selected for theprestigious Comedy Zone
Melbourne International ComedyFestival show and the festival's
road show in the NorthernTerritory.
What was the hotel like there?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Really nice.
Fly us and that was the best, Ithink, experience I've had as a
comic.
You're playing the big theatres.
The one in Alice Spring isamazing and the Darwin Theatre
as well is huge and they'repacked and it was the first time
I'm touring with fullyprofessional comedians and the
(17:46):
type of, I guess, bullying thatgoes on.
It's michelin star level, youknow, because it was friendly,
whatever, but I'm, I'm also.
I love to agitate.
You can just imagine being in atable around a bunch of comics,
everyone just sort of lettingoff steam.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah for sure, you haven't mentioned the buffet
breakfast.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
No buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So what did you do for breakfast?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I barely remember breakfast.
That's how much of a good timeit was.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, I'd be asking for my money back In 2025,
that's this year you're going todebut your first hour.
Any other descriptors of yournew show?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
it's kind of about at least the start of the frame is
about my relationship with mygrandpa, who had this amazing
life and he was german, and thenhe moved to spain and he was
German, and then he moved toSpain and he was selling, you
know, these brushes that havedetergent in them yes yeah, that
(18:46):
was like the iPhone of the1930s or whatever.
So so he starts selling them andhe thought he's in Spain.
And then the civil war breaksout and, uh, his friend and
business partner gets killed andhe goes to move back but his
dad's like, well, I wouldn'tcome to Germany.
He goes to Manchester and theyput him in termit gap and then
basically say, well, you're anenemy alien.
And he says, yeah, well, youknow a bit bit tough in germany
(19:08):
at the moment.
And they say, okay, well, youcan join the army, and you know
me.
In turn, he goes back, spendshis 20s sort of fighting in
world war ii.
You know, I had this reflection,that sort of, at my age.
He had fought in World War IIand had an international
business and started a familyand made me reflect that.
You know well, maybe my screentime is too high and it's sort
(19:33):
of reflection on that, but hewas really funny, but he wasn't
there, wasn't a wisdom to him.
The closest thing you'd get toadvice from him is a food
recommendation.
If you asked him what themeaning of life is, he'd say
lunch.
That was his.
He was razor focused on thattype of stuff and I remember
asking him when I was I don'tknow he was like 90 or something
(19:54):
and I was asking him about whatit was like fighting in World
War II and he said, oh, we had agood chef.
And then I think he would tellby my silence I was looking for
more detail.
So he added the salmon was goodand that was a reflection on
the worst war in human historyto this day.
But as I got older you start torealize these sort of wonderful
(20:19):
, almost comical, but these old,special, sweet people.
They went through reallydifficult things and then I did
youth leading for a while andhad a younger sister and you
start realizing how difficult itis to share all these horrible
things with these people,because you know you're going to
(20:39):
, they are going to carry thepain.
I just think my grandpa was anincredible person who did
incredible things and wascompletely down to earth and he
was also super funny.
So I guess him and his lifetake a frame to it.
But it's largely not a sadstory, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And the name of the show is the Salmon Was Good.
Because it's just meinterviewing you.
I have an imaginary dash on myshoulder and he is the historian
.
He will be cross with me if Idon't ask you a little bit about
your upbringing.
Some biographical details, ifthat's okay with you, of course,
of course.
(21:20):
So what's your background, Rafa?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
So my mum is German Jewish, my dad is Yemeni,
Israeli, which makes me SriLankan.
I guess I don't know why Peoplekeep asking me if I'm Sri
Lankan.
Not many people can be wrongDemocratically I am Sri Lankan.
Yeah, date of birth you want thegraphic detail.
So I was born in melbourne.
(21:44):
Then when I was about eightyears old, my parents told us we
were going to like dream worldor whatever.
And they're just packing awaythe table and stuff in a van and
we're like what do you needthat for?
And they're like shut up, getin the car and then we get there
and the understanding is we'llbe there for a year, and then a
year passes and they're like welive here now.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You live in Queensland.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
You live in Queensland, so I spent most of
my childhood and teenage years,all of them actually in Brisbane
.
Okay yeah, you look shocked.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I look shocked.
It's because you're a comedian.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I don't actually know whether that's true, so we
thought we were going for a year, okay.
That was basically thenegotiation.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
But me and my brother were just little shits, so I
fully understand why they neededto manipulate us, but I think
that's what you've got to do.
You have kids, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
At some point.
It's this idea that you can becompletely reasonable with these
things that don't have fullyfunctioning prefrontal lobes.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You respect your parents' decision now.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well, yeah, I think I definitely had more vitamin D
because of it.
Yeah, I think that the olderyou get and when you become the
same age as your parents whenthey had you, you think I'm a
moron.
I respect that they had thebravery to go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, so why did they move?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
The weather was a big thing.
I think also the market wasgrowing for building my dad's in
marble, so I've got red seastone for them and my dad's.
Actually really incrediblebackground with that.
He went to Oman and a lot ofthese Gulf countries really
early on and you know, as aYemeni sort of Jew that's a bit
(23:24):
of high risk but he started animport-export business sort of
off that and I really admire him.
You know he had to leave schoolat like 16.
His dad died when he was youngand he came here and you know
English isn't great and me andmy brother just like mainly made
fun of his accent and becauseit's funny, you know he'd say
(23:45):
obtus and say ting and that wasyou know, but you're ting
instead of what.
Thing yeah, yeah, and so I don'tspeak another language and he
came and he did all this stuffand I think you realize how
intense and tough that is as akid and you worked as as a tyler
50 hours a week or whatever,and you'd come home and we'd
just be like your voice is funnyand so I get you know.
(24:07):
I remember one time me and mybrother went up to him and we
said, oh, if there's a fire inthe house and you could only
save one of us, which one of uswould you save?
And without skipping a beat hesaid your sister.
It was intense moving toBrisbane, I think, because it's
a bit of a different world.
We went to a very, very Angloschool and I think we kind of
stood out, me and my brother abit, and also no one played AFL
(24:31):
and yeah.
So we moved to Brisbane.
Don't grow up particularly inthe Jewish community there isn't
really one.
We go to summer camp and thenSunday school as well.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So that's Jewish classes.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yes, so Sunday school .
I was like the only person toever be kicked out of Sunday
school apart from my brother, Ithink and he got kicked out for,
like, getting in a fight withanother kid, and I got kicked
out for being the other kid.
We had this amazing bar mitzvahteacher, neville.
(25:08):
He was really good and madethat part fun.
But then he moved to Melbourne.
Neville Stern shout out you're13, you're awkward braces and
you just feel uncomfortable inyour skin.
You're not a child anymore, butyou sort of look quite young.
You're certainly not an adultand I'm in Brisbane, which is
less multicultural, althoughit's grown significantly since I
moved there.
And yeah, I just remember doingmy bar mitzvah and my mom
(25:33):
thought it would be a great ideato invite all my friends who
weren't Jewish my footy team,you know the girl who I have a
crush on and there I am justscreaming in this voodoo
language at them for an hourwith my voice breaking, and
they're all like what the fuckis this?
And then we had some bagels.
That was it.
(25:53):
And so over summer you'll go tocamp or you'll go to Maccabi and
everyone's Jewish, and thisisn't like a weird thing, this
is just a thing that everyone isand it's okay, you don't have
to feel weird about it andeveryone has these like funny
stories about diarrhea and it's,I think, really meaningful, but
it doesn't define you exactly,although it is interesting how
(26:16):
people who fully grew up in theJewish community a lot of them
stay, but a lot of them breakout and push it away and they
don't feel the same sense that Ithink a lot of us who grew up
as it was this kind of sidething that we engaged in as it
enriched our life.
Whereas I think for some peopleit became like a roof and a
ceiling over what they couldexperience.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yes, and they needed a detox after school, yeah, yeah
.
So you finished high school andyou said that you became
involved in a Jewish youthmovement and in leadership.
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah.
So I just sort of did some ofthat stuff and I think that just
teaches you responsibility andI think also that I was not
typical of, I think, a lot of myJewish friends, in that I went
to a state school.
A lot of my friends.
Their schools had a swimmingpool and a lounge.
My school had safe needledisposals and occasional race
(27:14):
wars.
It was a very differentexperience and I was always
bouncing off the walls in class.
I did okay in some subjects butI certainly wasn't excelling.
And when you do some of theinformal education stuff, you
kind of get to teach how you, Iguess, like to learn, fun and
games and whatever.
That was really rewarding.
I think it gave you a sense ofresponsibility as well at quite
(27:38):
a young age.
And you're managing budgets,you're sort of dealing with
social issues and Jewish parentsand their anxieties and there's
one year where a campsitealmost burnt down.
It was nuts.
Basically, we see this firecoming and we get all the kids
into this, the head of the mainroom, and we pull down all the
blinds so they can't see and theidea is to contain the panic
(28:01):
right yes it's blazing, whatever, and then you know a kid starts
freaking out.
We stick them in a little room.
You know smoke's like peeringinto this box and this all stuff
.
It's like this is not good.
We've stuck a bunch of jewishkids in a room and there's smoke
coming anyway.
So I remember walking outsideand just seeing steven toffler
who, uh, if you know him, butlovely guy, and he's just like
(28:23):
walking in a circle, going, likeI can't believe my friends are
out at a doof and this is what Ichose, you're already at that
age like I can't believe this iswhat I'm doing with my
summertime after uni, whatever.
And he's just like all thesekids are gonna die.
And oh god, the complaints I'mgonna get from the parents.
Helicopters are going overbursting water, firefighters,
(28:45):
this whole thing.
Anyway, they contain the blaze.
We get the kids out, finally,and you just look around and
there's just barren wasteland,it's everywhere.
But the actual little campsite.
We get everyone into sort ofthe main kitchen hall room,
whatever, where we eat, and welet them know blah, blah, blah
is contained.
For now you guys don't have toworry and thank you for being in
(29:05):
a great and brave and whatever.
And let's give a round ofapplause for the fire chief who
came and he's gonna say a fewwords.
And then fire chief comes, he'sgot his helmet and he goes.
Yeah, thought we almost lost itthere.
You almost died today.
And the kids just startscreaming and we're like what
the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
what are?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
you doing, and then anyway, we had to get in
psychologists and stuff.
Um, anyway, that is a wildstory, that is amazing yeah, so
you know you're 20 and sort ofdealing with this stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Okay, at what point did you realise that a minor in
peace studies and a major inglobal conflict was the course
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Well, I actually started in arts commerce because
a guy who was a great mentor ofmine, Asher Rubenstein, who was
sort of a youth leader, hestudied that.
So I figured that's just whatI'll study and I was enjoying
economics but the math got to apoint where it was mainly
letters.
So I started focusing more onarts and then I think that the
(30:18):
conflict and conflict has alwayssort of weighed heavy on my
mind and had this deep hope thatmaybe someone had the answers
of a pathway out of just and thesuffering.
And so I took an internationalrelations course and I had this
amazing lecturer.
He was this French guy and hewas half Jewish and I think on
(30:41):
his mom's side lost some peopleduring the occupation of France
and he would stand on his deskand he would yell and he was
just larger than life and he wasa huge funneling for people to
come in and there was one of hissort of key aides and tutors
and he'd take so much as a guycalled Chris Adams and another
(31:03):
guy called Daryl Maroney and thetutes were big classes and they
would run sort of scenarios.
And this is happening and thisis happening.
How do you solve it?
A lot of what you pay for inuni feels and regurgitated and
overpriced and whatever.
These guys were amazing.
They were deeply engaging,thoughtful.
You really enjoyed reading andit was competitive and you could
(31:26):
act in bad faith in thesescenarios and see everything
fall apart very much like a lotof the way international
organizations or supernaturalorganizations function.
And so I really startedstudying that and that just
became my focus and I did adouble major in it and I I
really started studying that andthat just became my focus and I
did a double major in it, and Ithink I only graduated because
of wonderful people like ChrisAdams, who took an interest and
(31:48):
pushed me.
There was also a German lecturerthere, Sebastian.
I forget his last name and Iforget the name of the French
lecturer, but they co-wrote apiece about how Germany and
France became such great alliesand I think we miss this.
Historically, they massacredeach other in the millions.
They had a soft sort of border,so they were constantly
(32:12):
invading each other and thishappened over hundreds and
hundreds of years and now theyare the two best powerful
friends in the world and theywrote about how does this happen
in a generation right FromWorld War II to 70s, 80s,
whatever, they're really close,certainly West Germany, and then
, you know, throughout the 90s,whatever, but it's basically one
(32:35):
generation that you can go tokilling each other en masse to
closeness and they found thateconomic engagement and ties,
educational ties and arts andcultural exchanges had this
fundamental effect and,fundamentally, learning about
each other's histories andversions of history and you know
it makes you reflect on howmuch conflict there is.
(32:58):
And even Scotland and Englandright, these are cultures who
hated each other, scouse people,All throughout the UK you'll
find little divisions thataren't violent anymore, maybe
outside certain football games,but, like you know, not really
consistently violent in conflict.
And I think that vision gave mesome hope and some reflection
(33:18):
and I think about and maybe thisis just hopeful, but I think
about if you know, Israel canforgive Germany, maybe we can
forgive Palestinians and justmaybe one day they can forgive
us.
And it seems impossible andimprobable, but history would
tell us.
This happens all the time and Ifeel this hope.
(33:42):
It's sometimes it.
I think people can look at itand think, oh, that's not yours,
your forgiveness to give andwhatever and how.
I'm not saying I have any goodreason, right, other than I
don't like seeing people suffer.
I don't want my family to be, Idon't want them to be put to a
position where they have to hurtothers.
(34:02):
And you know, we live inAustralia.
We're so blessed and fortunatethat this reality is not,
hopefully at least, goingforward every day for us.
So that was, I guess, myjourney in international
relations.
I'm sorry, there should be somejokes in there.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I wasn't asking you for a joke.
I'm aware, and our audience isaware, that comedians are people
too and that you know we're notalways funny that sometimes we
can be smart and have ideasabout how to solve the problems
of the world.
I'm curious to know how youwent from that to comedy.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I was with my friend Dean Sher and sometime
contributed to TGI, and we wereat a bar outside St Kilda and I
was.
We had one or two chardonnaysthat night and there was a
comedy going on and someonedidn't rock up and the MC said
oh well, if anyone's got somejokes, I guess we've got a slot
now.
And then he went off and I wentand spoke to him.
(34:58):
I said I've written a few jokesand he said I was joking, you,
idiot, I'm not going to put arandom on stage.
And then the person who wasmeant to go up in front of the
headliner just bombed so bad.
And he came up to me and hesaid okay, well, you can't be
worse than this.
Tell me a joke.
And I told him a joke and I'dwritten them on these little
(35:20):
cards I took from the bar.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Some little coasters.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And so I got up there again a couple more Chardonnays
deep and I just went one by one, by jokes I'd written and would
throw them and it went reallywell.
I think I've always lovedcomedy and writing and
storytelling and process to dothat that way.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
What would you consider yourself to be an
expert in?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I don't think I'm an expert in anything.
I think that I spend my timetrying to figure it out and I
think that's what can keep youlearning.
And also funny is a sense ofhumility around it.
I think maybe you become anexpert in sensing someone's pain
inside.
Particularly lately you see orhear someone's Jewish or
(36:04):
whatever and there's just like alook in their eyes, Like
there's just a when are we justgoing to feel normal?
And I think I've become attunedto sort of sensing discomfort
in people, which is helpful whenyou're a comedian because
you're trying to sense anaudience's comfort with a
subject.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Is there anything that you're just ashamed to
admit?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
in general, Okay, when I text you, I'm on my way.
I'm not on my way.
I'll be on my way in 15 minutes.
Okay, when I find my keys?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
The name of your show again for our listeners, is the
show's called the Salmon WasGood.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's playing from the 9th to the 20th of April at
6.15pm at Bar 1806 in MelbourneCity.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Thank you so much for coming on.
A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Hey, thanks so much for having me, and to TJR and
all the wonderful work you do.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
That was Rafa Manajem , who'll be at Bar 1806 in
Melbourne from the 9th to the20th of April as part of
Melbourne International ComedyFestival.
We'll leave a link in the shownotes.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
His show is called the Salmon Was Good.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And you've been listening to.
A Shame to Admit with me TammySussman and executive director
of the Jewish Independent, drDarshal Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King,
with theme music by DonovanJenks.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
If you like the podcast, leave a positive review
, tell your people or encourageyour third cousin's cousin to
advertise on the show.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Tell us what you're ashamed to admit via the contact
form on the Jewish Independentwebsite or by emailing ashamed
at the jewishindependentcomau.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
As always, thanks for your support and look out for
us next week.
Are you interested in issues affecting Jews in
Australia, the Middle East andthe world at large, but
struggling to keep up with thenews cycle?
If you answered yes, thenyou've come to the right place.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm Nash Lawrence and in this podcast series, your
third cousin, tammy Sussman, andI call on experts and each
other to address all theignorant questions that you
might be too ashamed to ask.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Join us as we have a go at cutting through some
seriously chewy and dewy topics.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Jewish Independent Podcast.
Ash, shame to admit.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Hello everyone, I'm Tammy.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I'm Dash.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Dash tell everyone what you do at the Jewish
Independent.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm Executive Director.
What do you do at the JewishIndependent Tammy Sussman?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I make this podcast, I write articles.
I am the Jewish Independent'snew agony aunt or cousin for
their monthly sex andrelationships column Sex and the
Shtetl.
But you know, if I had a magicwand, I would be the Jewish
Independent's full-time courtjester.
(01:25):
Dash, do you know that courtjesters were proper jobs in
medieval and Renaissance courts?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, I do yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I've been doing a bit of-.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of reading up on
court jesters recently.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, my son has quite a fascination with
different historicalcivilizations and he's aware
that, yes, court jesters werethe royal family's form of
entertainment.
As long as we have evolved tohave forms of humour, we've
(02:04):
looked to other human beings tobring us some positivity and
light during times of struggleor war, as was the case with
court jesters during the earliertimes.
You know, help the king torelieve the king of the stresses
of dealing with whatevertroubles or conflicts.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Dash, how old is your son?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
He is five and a half .
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Five and a half, and he's taken an interest in
historical civilizations.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, renaissance medieval Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Chip off the old block.
He wants to go much furtherback than even I can go.
Okay, yeah, does your son knowwhether women were also allowed
to be court jesters, or was itjust a male occupation?
Because I'm pretty sure yeah Iwas born in the wrong point in
history.
If I was around in medieval andrenaissance times, I could have
(03:08):
been a full-time court jesterand entertainer for royalty and
nobility.
I could have used comedy, music, storytelling.
I think they also had to useacrobatics.
That's not my strong suit and Ithink there's a lot of noble
characters at the JewishIndependent and I think that the
(03:30):
Jewish Independent wouldbenefit greatly from having an
in-house jester.
So you're executive directorand I'm still unsure as to what
that role entails.
I have a feeling it's got to dowith the money.
Like you figure out where it'sallocated.
Is that your job?
That's one of the jobs yep,okay, so you're sure there's no
(03:53):
room for movement.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
For the TGI court, jester, yeah, look, it wasn't a
position that was on thestrategic plan for the next
three years.
But now that you're sort ofpart of the organisation and we
see you every week and I doagree, you do provide some value
in the way of comedy andentertainment will you bring the
(04:20):
laughs?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
That sounds to me like you're going to think about
it.
I'm considering it, Okay.
So the reason why jesters areon my mind, Dash, is because the
Melbourne International ComedyFestival is upon us.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I've already got my tickets.
I'm going to a few shows.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How do you choose which shows you're going to go
to?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It's a very good question.
You normally go on referralrecommendation from a friend or
someone that you trust yeah butthis year it's it's a bit of
potluck.
I've just found a few shows thatI like the look of and then
watched some youtube clips.
And yeah, like I've got afriend who always goes to the
(05:05):
comedy festival and he's gotquite a high bar for comedy or
at least he'd like to think andhe's also a listener to this
show, and I shared with him afew of the shows I wanted to see
and he was like, nah, not mything.
And then so I shared a couplemore and I said, what about
(05:26):
these?
And he was like, yep, lock itin, I like it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, that's one strategy.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Well, another technique that you could use is
my mother's strategy.
And it's actually a techniqueor a tactic used by a lot of
Jewish boomers particularly.
You could categorise shows intoJewish or not Jewish.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, right, only interested in seeing the Jewish
performers.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Correct.
Use a bit of positivediscrimination.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
And you say I'm going to support the Jewish comedians
.
Love it At the MelbourneInternational Comedy Festival.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, we've got all of three or four in this year's
festival.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
No, there's more.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh is there, Sorry I made a list.
You made a list.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Jews don't really like being on a list.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And not all of these people have given me their
consent.
They might not even want to beon the Jewish comedian list, but
their consent.
They might not even want to beon the Jewish comedian list, but
you know what?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Fuck it.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I'm doing them a favour.
Sorry, John Safran.
Oh, I didn't put John Safran onthe list.
Nah, his show's already soldout.
I saw a video from him lastnight that apparently he
committed to a show before heknew that it was on a major
Jewish festival.
Yeah, yeah, I saw that say tosay tonight passover, so he's
had to book another one.
No, ruby wax is in town withher show.
(06:52):
I'm not as well as I thought Iwas.
Wow, josh glance, who we've hadon the show, will be performing
family man ata alumni robinreynolds, absolute darling ATA
alumni Robin Reynolds AbsoluteDarling.
What Doesn't Kill you is thename of her show.
Jess Fook Sex Jokes for Women.
And Rafa Manajem the Salmon WasGood, which is playing at Bar
(07:16):
1806 from the 9th to the 20th ofApril.
Dash, I had a bit of a chatwith Rafa.
Now I know I originally pitchedit to you as an interview, but
I think what it became was likepart interview, part fever dream
.
I just want to put that outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Fever dream with Rafa Great.
I'm sorry I couldn't have beena part of it.
I don't know how much value Icould have added to that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think yesterday in particular you could have added
quite a bit of value, becauseRafa and I were all over the
place.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Oh were you.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was in charge of getting things back on track,
back into some kind of linearnarrative.
Yeah, I did my best.
Yeah, this chat slash interviewsometimes he interviewed me
slash fever dream.
I think it'll be a nice breakfrom the pretty shit news cycle.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So have you given a bio on Rafa?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
His was an active bio .
I read it with him so I'm noteven going to give it to you now
.
It's in the interview.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Love it.
I want to hear more, so let'slisten to this conversation
between Tammy and Rafa Manajem.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Rafa Manajem, thank you so much for joining us on A
Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Thanks for having me, huge fan of the show.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
No, you're not yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Ask me what my favourite episode is.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
What's your favourite episode?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
All of them.
I love them all equally, can'tseparate them.
They were fantastic.
How long have you been stood upby Dash?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Does that disappoint you.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, I thought you got the whole one-two punch
thing between the two of you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I know You're just stuck with me.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Can you please write a complaint and send it to the
Jewish Independent, because sofar all the complaints we get
are about me and I'd really liketo even the playing field.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What complaints do you get?
You're so lovely.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Thank you for saying that, but there was an episode
where we interviewed AlexRivchin and his wife, vicky
Rivchin, and the whole premiseof that interview was that it
was going to be a lightheartedone.
The community needed a bit oflight, and so I asked him a lot
of personal questions.
(09:44):
I asked him about his skincareregime as a you know, nod to the
fact that women often get askedthose questions.
I wanted to flip the script.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I thought it was a nod to his unbelievable face.
The first time I met him, I waslike who designed you, da Vinci
?
You look like your car fromMarvel and he's like I'm
Ukrainian.
And I'm like who designed you,da Vinci?
You look like your car fromMarvel and he's like I'm
Ukrainian.
I'm like you're Ukrainian.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
What the.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I just got lost in his eyes.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I asked his wife what it was like for her to have her
husband be thrust into thespotlight on Mardi Gras and
spontaneously become a gayJewish icon.
I asked her if that was on herbingo card for 2024.
And so I feel that these wereall really valid, pressing
questions and some listenersfelt that I derailed that
(10:35):
interview and did not giveenough weight.
At least you know people arelistening.
That's amazing Look.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
At least you know people are listening.
That's amazing.
Look, if you have a Jewishbased podcast and you are not
getting complaints, are you evenworking?
What are you doing?
Seinfeld has this whole bitabout.
You know his favorite activityis complaining.
You know he doesn't like anyactivity.
What he likes is discussing theactivity after.
(11:01):
I think it's very much a partof our culture as well.
And hey, at least they'recomplaining about something that
isn't harrowing for 15 minutes.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You're doing a great service.
Keep doing that.
Thank you, Rafa, so much.
Usually what I would do in aninterview situation like this is
I would tell you that Dash andI had already gone through your
bio beforehand.
But when you sent me your bio,Rafa, I felt like it was
something that needed a littlebit of unpacking, which is a
term I've also had a complaintabout.
(11:34):
They just say explain, likestop being so American.
So I felt like your bio wasmore of an activity I felt.
So let's go through thistogether.
Rafa Manajem is a Jewish comicand writer from Melbourne.
(11:56):
Rafa's creative writing methodsare derived from an ancient
Tibetan tradition.
Every morning at 4am, he drivesto the Dandenong Ranges to
meditate and write, citing thathis best work comes from being
amongst nature.
It's not so much the rustle oftrees or the flow of the streams
, it's more that it's anexcellent place to find leeches,
and if he loses enough blood hegets lightheaded.
And it's only in that anemicstate of consciousness that his
(12:18):
spiritual guide, Tom Gleeson,reveals himself himself, often
in a straight jacket, but neverin shoes.
We have some internationallisteners, Rafa.
Are you able to tell them whoTom Gleeson is and how important
he is to Australians?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Tom Gleeson is a successful Australian comedian
and he has sort of a hostileengagement quiz show.
He's just a, I think, a veryAustralian classic comic who's
won some TV awards and also myspiritual guide on these
journeys.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
In 2016, Rafa famously led the corporate
campaign for the right to wearsandals in office environments,
accusing the human resourceindustrial complex of being
anti-shu and Eurocentric.
When I read that, I thoughtit's plausible.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Well, this is the fantastic thing about language
and having an understanding of,in particular, political and
ideological language and howit's used.
The great blessing of doing anarts degree is that what it
trains you to do is basicallymake an intellectual argument
about the most absurd things, ifyou want.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Rafi studied international relations at the
University of Queensland.
You graduated with a minor inpeace studies and a major in
global conflict.
Major in global conflict.
Your professors described youas informed and possibly Sri
Lankan.
Anything more to say on that?
(13:56):
He's shaking his head.
He's forgotten.
This is not a visual medium.
Okay, I'll move on then.
In 2023, rafa received arunner-up title for the National
Raw Comedy Competition whichaired on SBS.
I've seen it, but there weretwo others awarded the same
title, so while he might tellpeople he came second, he also
came fourth.
In any case, he lost.
(14:17):
Do you identify as a loser or awinner?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
more broadly, I think I'm sort of off the spectrum.
I'm sort of in the corner doingmy own thing, maybe.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
That's a hard question, because if I say loser
, it's like, okay, this guy'sgot.
If I say winner, it's like, oh,this guy's a bit up himself.
So it's a real trap question.
Do you identify as a winner ora loser, tammy?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well done.
That was really clever.
To flip it back onto me, I feellike with literal competitions
I'm a winner.
I won a Mickey Mouse backpackin primary school in the raffle
in year six.
Yeah, I won tickets to RobbieWilliams.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
When, what era?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I was 16.
Robbie Williams when what era?
I was 16.
I went with a boyfriend and hehad diarrhea and I spent most of
the concert.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Well, that must have been some exciting concert.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Waiting outside yes, the cubicles, so I missed most
of the concert.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Did you stay with him after the diary?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, that made me love him even more.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
This is such a Jewish love story.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, I won a night stay at the Sofitel Hotel with
buffet breakfast.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay With buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
How do you win all this stuff?
You just want to entercompetitions.
Sorry, you said want to entercompetitions.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Sorry, you said with the buffet breakfast.
If there's no buffet breakfast,then what is the fucking point?
It's all about the buffetbreakfast.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
No, I'm with you.
Hey, there's not a hill I'mgoing to die on.
How are you winning all thisstuff?
What's going on here?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's just like raffles and I'm not going out of
my way to enter competitionsthis is why people think we
control everything.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
This is it's implausible so I shouldn't admit
it.
Yeah, in the literal sense ofthe national world competition.
I I lost, but but this thing, Iwas in it, right, so you had to
win five times to get to thatpoint and um, I also think
there's something surreal abouthaving a competition about
comedy, because it's a verysubjective thing and it's a
(16:26):
absurd reality to find yourselfin a position in front of a
thousand people cracking jokesand making people laugh and that
feels very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Good, that was a very measured response.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Who won that year?
Wonderful comedian Henry Yan,and he's so funny and so sweet.
And the next year me andWilliam Wang as well another
Victorian comic.
We all got to do the ComedyFestival's Comedy Zone selection
.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That was next in your bio.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So we spent a month togetherand just bonding and it was such
a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Oh, excellent.
You jumped the gun In 2024,.
You were selected for theprestigious Comedy Zone
Melbourne International ComedyFestival show and the festival's
road show in the NorthernTerritory.
What was the hotel like there?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Really nice.
Fly us and that was the best, Ithink, experience I've had as a
comic.
You're playing the big theatres.
The one in Alice Spring isamazing and the Darwin Theatre
as well is huge and they'repacked and it was the first time
I'm touring with fullyprofessional comedians and the
(17:46):
type of, I guess, bullying thatgoes on.
It's michelin star level, youknow, because it was friendly,
whatever, but I'm, I'm also.
I love to agitate.
You can just imagine being in atable around a bunch of comics,
everyone just sort of lettingoff steam.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah for sure, you haven't mentioned the buffet
breakfast.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
No buffet breakfast.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
So what did you do for breakfast?
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I barely remember breakfast.
That's how much of a good timeit was.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, I'd be asking for my money back In 2025,
that's this year you're going todebut your first hour.
Any other descriptors of yournew show?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
it's kind of about at least the start of the frame is
about my relationship with mygrandpa, who had this amazing
life and he was german, and thenhe moved to spain and he was
German, and then he moved toSpain and he was selling, you
know, these brushes that havedetergent in them yes yeah, that
(18:46):
was like the iPhone of the1930s or whatever.
So so he starts selling them andhe thought he's in Spain.
And then the civil war breaksout and, uh, his friend and
business partner gets killed andhe goes to move back but his
dad's like, well, I wouldn'tcome to Germany.
He goes to Manchester and theyput him in termit gap and then
basically say, well, you're anenemy alien.
And he says, yeah, well, youknow a bit bit tough in germany
(19:08):
at the moment.
And they say, okay, well, youcan join the army, and you know
me.
In turn, he goes back, spendshis 20s sort of fighting in
world war ii.
You know, I had this reflection,that sort of, at my age.
He had fought in World War IIand had an international
business and started a familyand made me reflect that.
You know well, maybe my screentime is too high and it's sort
(19:33):
of reflection on that, but hewas really funny, but he wasn't
there, wasn't a wisdom to him.
The closest thing you'd get toadvice from him is a food
recommendation.
If you asked him what themeaning of life is, he'd say
lunch.
That was his.
He was razor focused on thattype of stuff and I remember
asking him when I was I don'tknow he was like 90 or something
(19:54):
and I was asking him about whatit was like fighting in World
War II and he said, oh, we had agood chef.
And then I think he would tellby my silence I was looking for
more detail.
So he added the salmon was goodand that was a reflection on
the worst war in human historyto this day.
But as I got older you start torealize these sort of wonderful
(20:19):
, almost comical, but these old,special, sweet people.
They went through reallydifficult things and then I did
youth leading for a while andhad a younger sister and you
start realizing how difficult itis to share all these horrible
things with these people,because you know you're going to
(20:39):
, they are going to carry thepain.
I just think my grandpa was anincredible person who did
incredible things and wascompletely down to earth and he
was also super funny.
So I guess him and his lifetake a frame to it.
But it's largely not a sadstory, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And the name of the show is the Salmon Was Good.
Because it's just meinterviewing you.
I have an imaginary dash on myshoulder and he is the historian
.
He will be cross with me if Idon't ask you a little bit about
your upbringing.
Some biographical details, ifthat's okay with you, of course,
of course.
(21:20):
So what's your background, Rafa?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
So my mum is German Jewish, my dad is Yemeni,
Israeli, which makes me SriLankan.
I guess I don't know why Peoplekeep asking me if I'm Sri
Lankan.
Not many people can be wrongDemocratically I am Sri Lankan.
Yeah, date of birth you want thegraphic detail.
So I was born in melbourne.
(21:44):
Then when I was about eightyears old, my parents told us we
were going to like dream worldor whatever.
And they're just packing awaythe table and stuff in a van and
we're like what do you needthat for?
And they're like shut up, getin the car and then we get there
and the understanding is we'llbe there for a year, and then a
year passes and they're like welive here now.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
You live in Queensland.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
You live in Queensland, so I spent most of
my childhood and teenage years,all of them actually in Brisbane
.
Okay yeah, you look shocked.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I look shocked.
It's because you're a comedian.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I don't actually know whether that's true, so we
thought we were going for a year, okay.
That was basically thenegotiation.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
But me and my brother were just little shits, so I
fully understand why they neededto manipulate us, but I think
that's what you've got to do.
You have kids, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I know.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
At some point.
It's this idea that you can becompletely reasonable with these
things that don't have fullyfunctioning prefrontal lobes.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You respect your parents' decision now.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well, yeah, I think I definitely had more vitamin D
because of it.
Yeah, I think that the olderyou get and when you become the
same age as your parents whenthey had you, you think I'm a
moron.
I respect that they had thebravery to go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, so why did they move?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
The weather was a big thing.
I think also the market wasgrowing for building my dad's in
marble, so I've got red seastone for them and my dad's.
Actually really incrediblebackground with that.
He went to Oman and a lot ofthese Gulf countries really
early on and you know, as aYemeni sort of Jew that's a bit
(23:24):
of high risk but he started animport-export business sort of
off that and I really admire him.
You know he had to leave schoolat like 16.
His dad died when he was youngand he came here and you know
English isn't great and me andmy brother just like mainly made
fun of his accent and becauseit's funny, you know he'd say
(23:45):
obtus and say ting and that wasyou know, but you're ting
instead of what.
Thing yeah, yeah, and so I don'tspeak another language and he
came and he did all this stuffand I think you realize how
intense and tough that is as akid and you worked as as a tyler
50 hours a week or whatever,and you'd come home and we'd
just be like your voice is funnyand so I get you know.
(24:07):
I remember one time me and mybrother went up to him and we
said, oh, if there's a fire inthe house and you could only
save one of us, which one of uswould you save?
And without skipping a beat hesaid your sister.
It was intense moving toBrisbane, I think, because it's
a bit of a different world.
We went to a very, very Angloschool and I think we kind of
stood out, me and my brother abit, and also no one played AFL
(24:31):
and yeah.
So we moved to Brisbane.
Don't grow up particularly inthe Jewish community there isn't
really one.
We go to summer camp and thenSunday school as well.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So that's Jewish classes.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yes, so Sunday school .
I was like the only person toever be kicked out of Sunday
school apart from my brother, Ithink and he got kicked out for,
like, getting in a fight withanother kid, and I got kicked
out for being the other kid.
We had this amazing bar mitzvahteacher, neville.
(25:08):
He was really good and madethat part fun.
But then he moved to Melbourne.
Neville Stern shout out you're13, you're awkward braces and
you just feel uncomfortable inyour skin.
You're not a child anymore, butyou sort of look quite young.
You're certainly not an adultand I'm in Brisbane, which is
less multicultural, althoughit's grown significantly since I
moved there.
And yeah, I just remember doingmy bar mitzvah and my mom
(25:33):
thought it would be a great ideato invite all my friends who
weren't Jewish my footy team,you know the girl who I have a
crush on and there I am justscreaming in this voodoo
language at them for an hourwith my voice breaking, and
they're all like what the fuckis this?
And then we had some bagels.
That was it.
(25:53):
And so over summer you'll go tocamp or you'll go to Maccabi and
everyone's Jewish, and thisisn't like a weird thing, this
is just a thing that everyone isand it's okay, you don't have
to feel weird about it andeveryone has these like funny
stories about diarrhea and it's,I think, really meaningful, but
it doesn't define you exactly,although it is interesting how
(26:16):
people who fully grew up in theJewish community a lot of them
stay, but a lot of them breakout and push it away and they
don't feel the same sense that Ithink a lot of us who grew up
as it was this kind of sidething that we engaged in as it
enriched our life.
Whereas I think for some peopleit became like a roof and a
ceiling over what they couldexperience.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yes, and they needed a detox after school, yeah, yeah
.
So you finished high school andyou said that you became
involved in a Jewish youthmovement and in leadership.
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah.
So I just sort of did some ofthat stuff and I think that just
teaches you responsibility andI think also that I was not
typical of, I think, a lot of myJewish friends, in that I went
to a state school.
A lot of my friends.
Their schools had a swimmingpool and a lounge.
My school had safe needledisposals and occasional race
(27:14):
wars.
It was a very differentexperience and I was always
bouncing off the walls in class.
I did okay in some subjects butI certainly wasn't excelling.
And when you do some of theinformal education stuff, you
kind of get to teach how you, Iguess, like to learn, fun and
games and whatever.
That was really rewarding.
I think it gave you a sense ofresponsibility as well at quite
(27:38):
a young age.
And you're managing budgets,you're sort of dealing with
social issues and Jewish parentsand their anxieties and there's
one year where a campsitealmost burnt down.
It was nuts.
Basically, we see this firecoming and we get all the kids
into this, the head of the mainroom, and we pull down all the
blinds so they can't see and theidea is to contain the panic
(28:01):
right yes it's blazing, whatever, and then you know a kid starts
freaking out.
We stick them in a little room.
You know smoke's like peeringinto this box and this all stuff
.
It's like this is not good.
We've stuck a bunch of jewishkids in a room and there's smoke
coming anyway.
So I remember walking outsideand just seeing steven toffler
who, uh, if you know him, butlovely guy, and he's just like
(28:23):
walking in a circle, going, likeI can't believe my friends are
out at a doof and this is what Ichose, you're already at that
age like I can't believe this iswhat I'm doing with my
summertime after uni, whatever.
And he's just like all thesekids are gonna die.
And oh god, the complaints I'mgonna get from the parents.
Helicopters are going overbursting water, firefighters,
(28:45):
this whole thing.
Anyway, they contain the blaze.
We get the kids out, finally,and you just look around and
there's just barren wasteland,it's everywhere.
But the actual little campsite.
We get everyone into sort ofthe main kitchen hall room,
whatever, where we eat, and welet them know blah, blah, blah
is contained.
For now you guys don't have toworry and thank you for being in
(29:05):
a great and brave and whatever.
And let's give a round ofapplause for the fire chief who
came and he's gonna say a fewwords.
And then fire chief comes, he'sgot his helmet and he goes.
Yeah, thought we almost lost itthere.
You almost died today.
And the kids just startscreaming and we're like what
the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
what are?
Speaker 3 (29:27):
you doing, and then anyway, we had to get in
psychologists and stuff.
Um, anyway, that is a wildstory, that is amazing yeah, so
you know you're 20 and sort ofdealing with this stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Okay, at what point did you realise that a minor in
peace studies and a major inglobal conflict was the course
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Well, I actually started in arts commerce because
a guy who was a great mentor ofmine, Asher Rubenstein, who was
sort of a youth leader, hestudied that.
So I figured that's just whatI'll study and I was enjoying
economics but the math got to apoint where it was mainly
letters.
So I started focusing more onarts and then I think that the
(30:18):
conflict and conflict has alwayssort of weighed heavy on my
mind and had this deep hope thatmaybe someone had the answers
of a pathway out of just and thesuffering.
And so I took an internationalrelations course and I had this
amazing lecturer.
He was this French guy and hewas half Jewish and I think on
(30:41):
his mom's side lost some peopleduring the occupation of France
and he would stand on his deskand he would yell and he was
just larger than life and he wasa huge funneling for people to
come in and there was one of hissort of key aides and tutors
and he'd take so much as a guycalled Chris Adams and another
(31:03):
guy called Daryl Maroney and thetutes were big classes and they
would run sort of scenarios.
And this is happening and thisis happening.
How do you solve it?
A lot of what you pay for inuni feels and regurgitated and
overpriced and whatever.
These guys were amazing.
They were deeply engaging,thoughtful.
You really enjoyed reading andit was competitive and you could
(31:26):
act in bad faith in thesescenarios and see everything
fall apart very much like a lotof the way international
organizations or supernaturalorganizations function.
And so I really startedstudying that and that just
became my focus and I did adouble major in it and I I
really started studying that andthat just became my focus and I
did a double major in it, and Ithink I only graduated because
of wonderful people like ChrisAdams, who took an interest and
(31:48):
pushed me.
There was also a German lecturerthere, Sebastian.
I forget his last name and Iforget the name of the French
lecturer, but they co-wrote apiece about how Germany and
France became such great alliesand I think we miss this.
Historically, they massacredeach other in the millions.
They had a soft sort of border,so they were constantly
(32:12):
invading each other and thishappened over hundreds and
hundreds of years and now theyare the two best powerful
friends in the world and theywrote about how does this happen
in a generation right FromWorld War II to 70s, 80s,
whatever, they're really close,certainly West Germany, and then
, you know, throughout the 90s,whatever, but it's basically one
(32:35):
generation that you can go tokilling each other en masse to
closeness and they found thateconomic engagement and ties,
educational ties and arts andcultural exchanges had this
fundamental effect and,fundamentally, learning about
each other's histories andversions of history and you know
it makes you reflect on howmuch conflict there is.
(32:58):
And even Scotland and Englandright, these are cultures who
hated each other, scouse people,All throughout the UK you'll
find little divisions thataren't violent anymore, maybe
outside certain football games,but, like you know, not really
consistently violent in conflict.
And I think that vision gave mesome hope and some reflection
(33:18):
and I think about and maybe thisis just hopeful, but I think
about if you know, Israel canforgive Germany, maybe we can
forgive Palestinians and justmaybe one day they can forgive
us.
And it seems impossible andimprobable, but history would
tell us.
This happens all the time and Ifeel this hope.
(33:42):
It's sometimes it.
I think people can look at itand think, oh, that's not yours,
your forgiveness to give andwhatever and how.
I'm not saying I have any goodreason, right, other than I
don't like seeing people suffer.
I don't want my family to be, Idon't want them to be put to a
position where they have to hurtothers.
(34:02):
And you know, we live inAustralia.
We're so blessed and fortunatethat this reality is not,
hopefully at least, goingforward every day for us.
So that was, I guess, myjourney in international
relations.
I'm sorry, there should be somejokes in there.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I wasn't asking you for a joke.
I'm aware, and our audience isaware, that comedians are people
too and that you know we're notalways funny that sometimes we
can be smart and have ideasabout how to solve the problems
of the world.
I'm curious to know how youwent from that to comedy.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I was with my friend Dean Sher and sometime
contributed to TGI, and we wereat a bar outside St Kilda and I
was.
We had one or two chardonnaysthat night and there was a
comedy going on and someonedidn't rock up and the MC said
oh well, if anyone's got somejokes, I guess we've got a slot
now.
And then he went off and I wentand spoke to him.
(34:58):
I said I've written a few jokesand he said I was joking, you,
idiot, I'm not going to put arandom on stage.
And then the person who wasmeant to go up in front of the
headliner just bombed so bad.
And he came up to me and hesaid okay, well, you can't be
worse than this.
Tell me a joke.
And I told him a joke and I'dwritten them on these little
(35:20):
cards I took from the bar.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Some little coasters.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
And so I got up there again a couple more Chardonnays
deep and I just went one by one, by jokes I'd written and would
throw them and it went reallywell.
I think I've always lovedcomedy and writing and
storytelling and process to dothat that way.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
What would you consider yourself to be an
expert in?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I don't think I'm an expert in anything.
I think that I spend my timetrying to figure it out and I
think that's what can keep youlearning.
And also funny is a sense ofhumility around it.
I think maybe you become anexpert in sensing someone's pain
inside.
Particularly lately you see orhear someone's Jewish or
(36:04):
whatever and there's just like alook in their eyes, Like
there's just a when are we justgoing to feel normal?
And I think I've become attunedto sort of sensing discomfort
in people, which is helpful whenyou're a comedian because
you're trying to sense anaudience's comfort with a
subject.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Is there anything that you're just ashamed to
admit?
Speaker 3 (36:27):
in general, Okay, when I text you, I'm on my way.
I'm not on my way.
I'll be on my way in 15 minutes.
Okay, when I find my keys?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
The name of your show again for our listeners, is the
show's called the Salmon WasGood.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's playing from the 9th to the 20th of April at
6.15pm at Bar 1806 in MelbourneCity.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Thank you so much for coming on.
A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Hey, thanks so much for having me, and to TJR and
all the wonderful work you do.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
That was Rafa Manajem , who'll be at Bar 1806 in
Melbourne from the 9th to the20th of April as part of
Melbourne International ComedyFestival.
We'll leave a link in the shownotes.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
His show is called the Salmon Was Good.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And you've been listening to.
A Shame to Admit with me TammySussman and executive director
of the Jewish Independent, drDarshal Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King,
with theme music by DonovanJenks.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
If you like the podcast, leave a positive review
, tell your people or encourageyour third cousin's cousin to
advertise on the show.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Tell us what you're ashamed to admit via the contact
form on the Jewish Independentwebsite or by emailing ashamed
at the jewishindependentcomau.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
As always, thanks for your support and look out for
us next week.
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