July 14, 2025 • 31 mins
What does it mean to be a Zionist in 2025? Can diaspora Jews shape Israel's future from afar? Tami and Dash caught up with Romy Zyngier, research scientist, community builder, and head of one of the slates contesting Australian elections at this year's World Zionist Congress.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Are you interested in nuanced Jewish perspectives on
Zionism today, and not whatothers think Jews should believe
, but what thoughtful Jews areactually grappling with?
If you answered yes, thenyou've come to the right place.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent and
in this episode, which is parttwo of our Zionism series, we'll
be diving into this hot topicby speaking with research
scientist, creative communicatorand community builder Romy
Zinger, who is head of theHatikva Australia slate in the
(00:43):
World Zionist Congress electionshappening right now in
Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Who knows if she'll be ashamed to admit anything.
It's season three of this TJIpodcast and we seem to be
dropping our shame, some of usmore than others.
Tammy, join us as we have a goat cutting through this
exceptionally chewy and dewytopic.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Welcome to this week's episode of A Shame to
Admit.
Hello and welcome to A Shame toAdmit.
(01:26):
I'm Dash Lawrence from theJewish Independent, speaking to
you from the great city ofAdelaide.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And I'm Tammy Sussman from the aesthetically superior
city of Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I beg to differ.
I think that Adelaide candefinitely go toe-to-toe with
Sydney.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You reckon oh yeah, Is there a harbour.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Does every city need a harbour?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Magnificent beaches, beautiful Adelaide hills,
wineries to the north, wineriesto the south.
The whole city is encased withparklands.
Tammy.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
All right, and you've got the churches, of course,
which we don't have.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Got the churches, yeah, the churches.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You could say that they are aesthetically superior.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, the beautiful feature of Adelaide is its
churches, festival city,wonderful place, so much so that
I choose to live in Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I stand by what I said and I apologise to the 1%
of our listeners who are tuningin from Adelaide in South
Australia.
Dash, I've had a look at themap of where people are
listening from Quite diverse,quite surprising.
Oh yeah, yep, we have peoplelistening from Douglas in the
(02:49):
Isle of man.
I had to Google where that was.
Do you know where Douglas is?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I do, and believe it or not, I actually know an
Australian Jew living in Douglas, so I don't know whether he's
our one and only listener, but Idon't think it's exactly a
thriving Jewish community in theIsle of man.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, do you want to give his first name a shout out,
in case it is him?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Michael, I hope life is going well for you there in
very rainy, very overcast.
Douglas, you know they'recalled Manx in the Isle of man.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I didn't know that, but obviously you know that
You're our Triv man.
We have some listeners inKaluakona in Hawaii.
Not sure whether they'reregular listeners or whether
they're just Jewish Americanshaving their holiday in Hawaii,
but hello to you over there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Aloha to you.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Thank you for that correction.
Okay, where is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Pedrugia, alicante.
Alicante is a city in Spainfrom memory, so I think that's
what you're referring to.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, you're right.
It's a charming town nestled inthe Marina Alta region of
Alicante in Spain.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly.
Hola to our amigos in.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Alicante.
Como estas?
I guess, if you're in Spain,much better.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I love that.
You did very well and of course, we do have listeners in Japan.
Konnichiwa to our friends inTokyo and Kyoto.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And in Liverpool, in New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Oh right, I was about to say Liverpool Scouse.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Not bad accent, actually.
Dash well done.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Burnley up north in Burnley We've got a listener in
Burnley.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
How long have you been practicing that one?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Had I been given some forewarning about this segment,
I probably would have prepareda whole raft of them, but I
can't really do them on the fly.
Are you an accents man?
I'm more an impersonator.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, I do a greatimpersonation of you.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, the thing is about an impersonation is.
You generally can't do it infront of the person.
You get sort of inhibited andyou need to be in the zone.
You can't be riffing off theperson that you're impersonating
it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So what I'm hearing is, for the first time, that you
have been impersonating mebehind my back.
Who's your audience?
Whoever will listen, it's yourchildren.
Shall we get on with the show.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So the reason, tammy, that we are taking a whiff
around the globe is that rightnow, we are amidst a global
election.
Jewish diasporas around theworld are casting their vote for
who they would like torepresent them at the World
(05:55):
Zionist Congress.
As I mentioned at the top ofthe episode, this is the second
part in our conversation aboutZionism.
If you didn't hear last week'sconversation with Adam Kirsch, I
strongly recommend you do,because Adam put forward the
argument that now is the timefor Jewish people to reclaim the
word Zionism.
(06:17):
In this week's conversation,we're taking a look at what is
the application of Zionism,because this word is nearly 150
years old, dates back into the1800s, its understanding is
varied and in the last few yearsit's been very much sullied and
very much lost andmisunderstood.
So what does it actually meanto be a Zionist today and to
(06:43):
apply that word as well?
Our guest today is someone whois actually heading a slate in
the Australian part of theseelections for what's called
Hatikva, australia.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And if you're like me and you're like what is a slate
, beyond a type of tile, dash.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, look, a slate is not a term I would have
usually used, but they all seemto be talking about the slates.
So essentially, we are talkingabout a grouping of candidates
that are standing for electionin the World's Artist Congress.
Hatikva, australia, has beenput together in the leading to
this election, but they're notthe only ones.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
That's right.
There are five right.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
There are five.
There are five MizrahiAustralia, australian Friends of
Likud, eretz, hakarosh and AzaMazorti are the other four
tickets in addition to HatikvaAustralia.
You can read more about them,their policies, what they stand
for, who's representing them, onthe Jewish Independent website,
(07:48):
where we've got coverage, andwe'll have coverage after the
election as well, to see wherethe votes fell.
I just want you to know thatwe're not advocating for any one
particular slate here,unashamed to admit.
Really, what we wanted to dotoday in the conversation is to
(08:08):
understand from one candidatewhy they're participating, and
today's guest is a veryarticulate voice, someone that's
grown up in the AustralianJewish community and, in
particular, has a very activerole in climate research and
(08:28):
advocacy.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So, without any further ado, here is our
interview with Head of HatikvaAustralia, romy Zinger.
Romy Zinger, thanks so much forjoining us on A Shame to Admit.
(08:52):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I'm excited to be here.
Romy, as our listeners havejust heard, you've had a career
working at the intersection ofscience, sustainability and
public policy at theintersection of science,
sustainability and public policy.
I'd like to hear a little bitabout your upbringing and your
formative experiences that ledyou into this world.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Oh Dash, getting straight in there with the
childhood.
So I guess fighting for what'sjust and fair has been instilled
within me from the verybeginning.
I grew up in a household ofactivists social activists,
environmental activists, humanrights advocates and I was
raised in a home where we weretaught to understand the
difference between equity andequality, where political debate
(09:36):
was the norm at the dinnertable, so it was a really sort
of central feature in our familylife.
My parents took me to ralliesas a young kid as well, fighting
for what's right, particularlyrefugees, descendants from
Holocaust survivors.
So that's been a reallyimportant feature in our life.
Something that my bubahanawhich means grandma in Yiddish
(09:56):
for other people always said tome was never look up to see what
you don't have, but look to seehow you can help and where you
can help, and that's somethingthat's really sort of been
central in the way that I'veviewed the world.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Romy these days.
Your work with soil, foodsystems and climate resilience
touches on deep issues ofsurvival and justice.
I'm curious to know do you seethat as a form of tikkun olam,
and maybe we can have a quickexplainer of what that is for
our non-Jewish listeners.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Tikkun Olam is a Hebrew phrase meaning repairing
the world or healing the world,and it reflects core Jewish
values the moral responsibilityto make the world more just,
compassionate and whole, andthere's a lot of literature that
you can read about it and it'ssomething really I encourage you
to explore a bit more broadlyat home if you have the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Tikkun olam is a phrase that's held up
particularly in certain circleswithin the Jewish community.
You mentioned before that youcame from an activist family and
a very politically aware andattuned family, and one that had
an environmental consciousness.
Was tikkun olam even discussedaround the family?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It wasn't directly discussed as a concept, but our
entire life revolved around itand that's really led me to, I
suppose, my life's work and mycareer so far being actually
driven by that concept of TikkunOlam.
I just want to leave the worlda little bit better than how I
found it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So many, if not most, australian Jews who end up
working in justice, be it insocial justice or environmental
justice or even in the lawitself, have had their political
awakening formed throughZionist youth movements.
Was that the case for you?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Absolutely.
I am actually third generationHashem HaTzir, which is a
Zionist youth movement and it'sstraight out of Poland.
Originally.
They trained young adults inPoland to be ready to move to
Israel, make Aliyah and to buildthe Kibbutzim.
So that's something that youknow is all through my blood,
something that's so deeplyimportant to me our Zionist
youth movements.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Hashi.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Hang on.
I've never heard of it before.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You've never heard of Hashi Tammy.
What?
No, They've got Hashi in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't think they do .
No, they all made Aliyah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Don't shame me for not knowing this.
Hang on.
What's the?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
full name.
So the full name is HashomeHatzair, shortened in Australia,
like we do with everything,tahashi.
It's sort of the founders ofthe kibbutz movement in Israel.
Strong political social justiceactivism, zionist youth
organization, and we like to doa little bit of scouting too on
the side.
So you had summer camps andthings like that, absolutely and
(12:45):
things like that, absolutely soevery winter, every summer,
from grade two to year 12 andthen following I stayed on in
the movement to lead themovement for many years as well
as just sort of contribute whereI could, and I'm actually back
in Harsham Althea now.
We've actually created a BeitTarabut, a life movement.
So it's an exciting new projectthat I'm picking up and helping
drive forward so that peoplefrom the age of zero to 100
(13:08):
actually have a place to expresstheir Hugshamah pathways in
Australia and continue thatideological journey as a Zionist
.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Can you still go on summer camps as an adult?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
You know what?
We actually ran a summer campfor families this year.
Oh lovely, it was over threedays out in the forest in
Belgrave, just outside ofMelbourne.
We had 120 people come, kidswith parents, and it was such a
vibe, any swinging between theparents.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
But that's what you go to youth movements for.
You go to PASH.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
For the schmutz For the schmutz.
No, it was a very well-behavedsituation.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Was there a lot of talk about environmental
activism in the Hashi days, ordid that come more at home?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Activism is a huge part of the Hashi ideology.
So, really walking the talk,you know we would sit around and
we'd have intense ideologicaldiscussions.
But what good are discussionsif you don't act on your
ideology?
So we were really known forbeing out in the community,
being quite outspoken, attendingrallies, you know, driving for
human rights and equality.
But you know I actuallywouldn't define myself as an
(14:09):
activist ever Scientist, yes,community builder, yes,
self-proclaimed nerd, 100%.
But activist really isn't aword that sits in how I view
myself at all.
Why is that?
I suppose from my perspective,I live a great privileged life
and I have a wonderful family.
I live a great privileged lifeand I have a wonderful family,
(14:30):
roof over my head and education,a community, and with the
privilege comes greatresponsibility.
So it's just what I'm supposedto do.
I just feel that I'm called todo that kind of work and yeah, I
don't know.
Do you know the words of Hillel?
If not now, then when?
Yes, so it's about that callingto do what's right.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We need to address something that I'm ashamed to
admit I'd never heard of, and Ido know that there are other
listeners who are in the sameposition as me.
I'd never heard of the WorldZionist Congress or the upcoming
elections until I met you.
So what is it all about and whyshould Jews care about it?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's actually really nothing to be ashamed of, Tammy,
because I don't think many Jewsin Australia have heard of what
the World Zionist Congress isbefore or why it matters,
because we've never gone toproper elections here in
Australia.
This is a really new experiencefor the Australian Jewish
community.
Now, what is the ZionistCongress?
So it was established 128 yearsago by Theodor Herzl and it's a
(15:32):
powerful democratic forum whereJews around the world can help
shape Israel's future and Jewishlife.
So it meets every five years tomake key decisions about the
direction of Zionism and theallocation of billions in
funding for Jewish and Israelicauses.
The other really importantthing to know about the Congress
is that it sets policies andfunding priorities for the World
Zionist Organisation.
(15:52):
So I guess its compositioninfluences leadership,
influences, governance andbudget decisions for key
institutions.
So the Jewish Agency for Israeland Jewish National Fund.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Why should Australian Jews care?
Or?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
vote.
Oh, so much to care about.
Okay.
So, as it's the only globaldemocratic platform for Jews
across the diaspora to have adirect say in Israel and global
Zionism, we need to show up tohave our voices heard.
So the decisions made at theWorld Zionist Congress affects
things here in Australia too.
It affects things like Jewishand Zionist education, our youth
(16:28):
movements, our Aliyah program,our diaspora, israel relations
and the ideological direction ofthe Zionist movement itself.
And, of course, decisions madeat this World Zionist Congress
in 2025 will shape Israel andthe Jewish diaspora for the next
generations.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So I wasn't aware that there have been preclusions
on Australian Jews voting forand selecting candidates to go
to the Congress.
What were the past barriers inplace for voting and what's
happened at this year's election?
That's different.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So it's not that there were barriers to voting
beforehand.
It's more that our communityhas made decisions in the
leadership bodies based on aproportional representation of
different types of Jewishexpression, whether that be
religious to non-religious andsecular.
So there are various partiesrunning throughout these
elections.
What's different this year isthat we're going to full
(17:20):
elections and that's beingdriven by the need for us to
really understand whatAustralian Jews have to say.
What are our opinions?
How do we feel?
What do we want for our Zionistfuture, for our children's
experience of Israel, for ourlife here in the diaspora?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So it sounds like we're giving people who would
previously just give theiropinions on Instagram an
opportunity to put their moneywhere their mouth is.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oh, that's an interesting way to put it.
I suppose so.
So you know, it's taking thingsfrom having an opinion to doing
something about it.
This is a real way thatAustralian Jews can affect
change.
It's an enormous opportunity, ademocratic right to engage with
this process.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So I encourage our listeners to go to our website.
We will have a little bit ofcoverage over the next couple of
weeks on the Congress and, ofcourse, once the votes have been
tallied and the representativeshave been elected, we'll have
some analysis on who is headedto the Congress.
So I believe that there arefive tickets pursuing the 13
(18:29):
slots or mandates that have beenmade available to the
Australian Jewish community.
So we have Aza Mazorti, whichpresumably represents the Reform
Mazorti community here inAustralia.
Hatik for Australia, your veryown.
We have Likud, which Ianticipate is aligned with
Israel's Likud party, mizrahiAustralia and for those who
(18:52):
aren't familiar with Mizrahi,it's typically aligned with the
religious Zionist movement.
And then Eretz HaKorosh.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Also, you were about to explain the idea that there's
13 people can go, but there arefive different groups that you
can choose people from.
Explain it to me like you're mybat mitzvah teacher and I'm 13
years old.
Okay, sure.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So we have 13 mandates available, and
Australia receives 13 mandatesbased on the size of its Jewish
population.
So all across the world theseelections are going on as well.
Depending on the size of yourJewish population determines how
many seats you get at thattable.
So currently, in theseelections, all these various
(19:38):
political sites not necessarilypolitical, but all these various
slates in Australia are vyingfor these seats.
So how it works is it's basedon the number of votes in total
that are received, so everysingle vote counts, and then
they divide that total number ofvotes by the number of seats,
and so that tells you how manyvotes you need to get to achieve
(19:59):
one mandate or delegateposition, and so each slate has
its own list of people,candidates that they're putting
forward.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So ideally all 13 of you could go.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
That would be magnificent.
What an achievement.
That would be All right.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
But realistically, how many do you think will be
able to go?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You know, that is such an unknown, because it's
the first time we've gone toelections in Australia.
There's no data for us to haveany insights around the size of
the voice that stands behindTICFA.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I've had it in the last couple of weeks for us to
have any insights around thesize of the voice that stands
behind Tikva.
I've had it in the last coupleof weeks.
Lots of people come to mesoliciting my vote, which is
funny because I'm not sure thatI'd be eligible under the rules
of being able to vote.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Is that because people assume you're Jewish?
People just assume that you are, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So I've got people Romy, from both your ticket to
Tikva and from AZA coming to meseeking my vote, and I haven't
had anyone yet from Likud.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
There's still time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Welcome to be solicited by Likud
representatives in Australia andthe others too.
But I guess I'm left wonderinglike are you not going to have a
split vote, like the ASAmajority ticket?
When I read about it, hearabout it and then hear about
yours, as we just did, I'm likeyou're advocating for many of
the same things.
(21:16):
In the end, your ability togarner votes is going to be
split because your platforms areactually quite similar.
I take it there's no value inmerging the two tickets because
they clearly represent reformmajority.
But talk to me about thepossibility of that vote being
split, because surely that's onyour minds at the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
You know, what's really important is that Jewish
Australians step up and havetheir voice heard.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
That's the most important thing.
It's the first time that wehave the opportunity to go to
elections, and the more Jews inAustralia that actually show up
to vote, the more that we'll berepresented in the way that
suits our community at thattable, and for me that's what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I guess, romy, I hear what you say about the
potential impact that this couldhave.
But for those progressive,liberal Zionists that are seeing
what they feel to be the kindof dismantling of Israeli
democracy and its replacementwith a ultra-nationalist, a
(22:20):
religious to the extreme, formof settler power, how can this
Zionist Congress, which doesn'thave a representation in the
Knesset, that won't have a seatat the table of the Israeli
government or a future coalition, how can it actually change the
(22:41):
course of the state of Israel?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
The World Zionist Congress is the democratic forum
that elects people into power,to positions all throughout the
World Zionist Organization, andthe World Zionist Organization
is a very, very heavy lifterwhen it comes to policy
decisions, when it comes tofunding allocation.
We're not talking small amountsof funding here.
It's $5 billion over afive-year term.
(23:06):
So if we have a strong,progressive Zionist voice at
that decision-making table, wecan elect people into leadership
roles in the JNS.
So where are those trees goingto be planted?
Is the funding going to go toillegal settlements, or is it
going to stay in Israel torebuild after those devastating
wildfires that we saw recently,to rebuild after war?
There's so many opportunitiesto make sure that that funding
(23:29):
goes exactly where it's needed.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
We had a conversation last week with Adam Kirsch off
the back of his article in theJewish Quarterly, and so Adam's
thesis is that it's veryimportant for Jewish people to
reclaim their land, zionism, andto reclaim that term Zionist.
I'm interested in yourexperience, romy.
(23:53):
You have worked in the climatesector.
What has it been like for youin the last 18 months as a
Zionist, as someone who feels astrong attachment, affiliation
with the state of Israel andwith Zionism, and as a former
Zionist youth movement leader inthat part of Australia where we
have seen a kind of uproar ofintolerance and an uproar of
(24:19):
anger directed at Zionism andZionists?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I think, like most people in Australia and around
the world, october 7 rocked myworld, absolutely, flipped it
upside down.
Having lived on Kibbutz Nerozfor quite a while, a lot of
people I deeply love died, heldhostage or luckily survived.
So framing the past 18 monthswith an enormous amount of
(24:45):
community grief, personal griefshortly after October 7, losing
my father, added to thatcumulative grief and then, in
many ways, being told thatbecause I'm a Zionist, I don't
belong in my prior activistcommunities or political spheres
, has been immensely challenging.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Have you lost friendships and collaborations
as well professional connections?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I'm really proud to say that it hasn't affected my
professional life.
In that respect, I work withincredible academics and
intelligent humans whounderstand nuance and complexity
, but I don't think that'severyone's experience.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Have you had conversations with people to
help them understand and seeyour perspective and your
experience?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Oh, I think a minimum of one a day.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Really Well, good on you, because I imagine that you
know the impulse for otherswould be to step back from
having conversations, to feel onthe attack, to feel insecure
about their place in thesespaces, in these organisations.
But you've actually steppedinto it and you've wanted people
(25:56):
to understand the Jewishperspective and the Zionist
perspective.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Absolutely.
Having a voice as a Zionist isan important one.
I'm not going to pretend thatit's an easy one.
Launching this campaign forHigh Tech for Australia has
opened up the online space forlet's call them yucky comments,
for want of a better phrase.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Vitriol.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, it's not been pleasant, but it's important.
If we don't stand up for whatwe believe in and the future
that we want for Israel andJewish life in the diaspora, we
let other people decide for uslife in the diaspora.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We let other people decide for us.
So I'm interested in how youhave reframed Zionism, or being
a Zionist, to your non-Jewish,environmental or politically
progressive or even AustralianGreens voting, supporting
friends, colleagues and others.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
For me it's simple Do all peoples have the right to
self-determination?
Yes, does that exclude Jews?
Absolutely not.
Is that where my Zionism comesfrom?
100%, it's very, very easy, andif people can't step into the
humanity then we can't have aconversation and unfortunately,
that just has to be okay.
I can't convince people if theycan't step into humanity.
(27:09):
You know, everyone definesZionism so differently, even
within our own community.
I wouldn't want to presume thatZionism what it means to me,
means to somebody else, and Ithink it's important to have
safe, careful dialogues toexplore that and allow people to
express themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Rami, I'm absolutely floored by you and the amazing
work that you're doing.
You've achieved all thesethings.
You're probably referred to asa really good person by a lot of
people, but do you have anylittle dirty secrets?
Is there anything you'reashamed to admit?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
I have an embarrassing little thing that
I'm ashamed about.
Okay, so every time I drivethrough the Bagel Belt in
Melbourne, I cannot help myselfbut stop off at the Jewish
bakery and buy myself thedeep-fried gefilte fish balls
and sit in my car and have anosh Ashkenazi to the max.
(28:06):
Where do you get thesedeep-fried fish balls?
They're from Glick's Bakery tothe max.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Where do you get these deep fried fish balls?
They're from Glicks Bakery.
So, romy, I've been led tobelieve that it's a very
straightforward, easy way forAustralian Jews to vote in the
Congress for their Australianrepresentatives.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can do it.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Well, what's really important to know is that voting
is open.
Now closes on the 27th of July,so we've got a short few more
weeks period in which people canget out there and vote.
To vote, you have to be 18 plus, you have to be permanently
residing in Australia and youcan't have voted in the Knesset
elections that have just been,because you're not allowed to
double dip on your voting and itonly costs $5 and that $5 is
(28:47):
considered the Zionist shekel.
So 1897, Theodor Herzl proposedthe Zionist shekel as the idea
of formally affiliating with theZionist movement.
Aside from that, actually,locally, the $5 is contributing
to making sure that the onlinevoting platform, which I'm sure
we can provide the links to withthe podcast, is secure, that
(29:08):
your data is protected and itmaintains a healthy online
platform.
So it is really easy.
It takes about two minutes todo to get online to cast your
vote.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Did Hatikva consider getting Glix on board, that with
every vote you get a free deepfried fish ball?
Because that was that ever inthe meeting room?
No, I'm available forconsulting, just so you know my
dream.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Romy, best of luck to you, your ticket, and all the
other tickets or slates that arecontesting the election.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Next year in Jerusalem, Baruch Hashem.
But actually where is the WorldZionist Congress?
If you get to go, what city?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It is in Jerusalem this October.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
How could it be anywhere else?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Thanks, Romy.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That was research scientist, creative communicator
and community builder RomyZinger, who is head of the
Hatikva.
Australia slate in the WorldZionist Congress elections.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You have until the end of July to cast your vote.
We'll leave a link in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
And that's it for this week.
You've been listening to AShame to Admit with me Tammy
Sussman.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And me, Dash Lawrence , here in the City of Churches.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King,
with theme music by DonovanJenks.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
If you like the episode, forward it to a mate.
Tell them that it's even moreenjoyable than a pie floater.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh, it's just a thing that we eat in Adelaide.
It's a pie.
A pie floater it's a pieswimming in a puddle of pea soup
.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
It used to be served from a particular van on the
parade in Norwood.
Yeah, delicious.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
As always, thanks for your support and if you haven't
died from eating too many piefloaters in Adelaide, look out
for us next week.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
See you then, thank you.
Are you interested in nuanced Jewish perspectives on
Zionism today, and not whatothers think Jews should believe
, but what thoughtful Jews areactually grappling with?
If you answered yes, thenyou've come to the right place.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm Dash Lawrence from the Jewish Independent and
in this episode, which is parttwo of our Zionism series, we'll
be diving into this hot topicby speaking with research
scientist, creative communicatorand community builder Romy
Zinger, who is head of theHatikva Australia slate in the
(00:43):
World Zionist Congress electionshappening right now in
Australia.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Who knows if she'll be ashamed to admit anything.
It's season three of this TJIpodcast and we seem to be
dropping our shame, some of usmore than others.
Tammy, join us as we have a goat cutting through this
exceptionally chewy and dewytopic.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Welcome to this week's episode of A Shame to
Admit.
Hello and welcome to A Shame toAdmit.
(01:26):
I'm Dash Lawrence from theJewish Independent, speaking to
you from the great city ofAdelaide.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And I'm Tammy Sussman from the aesthetically superior
city of Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I beg to differ.
I think that Adelaide candefinitely go toe-to-toe with
Sydney.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You reckon oh yeah, Is there a harbour.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Does every city need a harbour?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Magnificent beaches, beautiful Adelaide hills,
wineries to the north, wineriesto the south.
The whole city is encased withparklands.
Tammy.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
All right, and you've got the churches, of course,
which we don't have.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Got the churches, yeah, the churches.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
You could say that they are aesthetically superior.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, the beautiful feature of Adelaide is its
churches, festival city,wonderful place, so much so that
I choose to live in Melbourne.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I stand by what I said and I apologise to the 1%
of our listeners who are tuningin from Adelaide in South
Australia.
Dash, I've had a look at themap of where people are
listening from Quite diverse,quite surprising.
Oh yeah, yep, we have peoplelistening from Douglas in the
(02:49):
Isle of man.
I had to Google where that was.
Do you know where Douglas is?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I do, and believe it or not, I actually know an
Australian Jew living in Douglas, so I don't know whether he's
our one and only listener, but Idon't think it's exactly a
thriving Jewish community in theIsle of man.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, do you want to give his first name a shout out,
in case it is him?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Michael, I hope life is going well for you there in
very rainy, very overcast.
Douglas, you know they'recalled Manx in the Isle of man.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I didn't know that, but obviously you know that
You're our Triv man.
We have some listeners inKaluakona in Hawaii.
Not sure whether they'reregular listeners or whether
they're just Jewish Americanshaving their holiday in Hawaii,
but hello to you over there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Aloha to you.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Thank you for that correction.
Okay, where is?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Pedrugia, alicante.
Alicante is a city in Spainfrom memory, so I think that's
what you're referring to.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, you're right.
It's a charming town nestled inthe Marina Alta region of
Alicante in Spain.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm probably not pronouncing that correctly.
Hola to our amigos in.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Alicante.
Como estas?
I guess, if you're in Spain,much better.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I love that.
You did very well and of course, we do have listeners in Japan.
Konnichiwa to our friends inTokyo and Kyoto.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And in Liverpool, in New South Wales.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Oh right, I was about to say Liverpool Scouse.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Not bad accent, actually.
Dash well done.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Burnley up north in Burnley We've got a listener in
Burnley.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
How long have you been practicing that one?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Had I been given some forewarning about this segment,
I probably would have prepareda whole raft of them, but I
can't really do them on the fly.
Are you an accents man?
I'm more an impersonator.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, I do a greatimpersonation of you.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, the thing is about an impersonation is.
You generally can't do it infront of the person.
You get sort of inhibited andyou need to be in the zone.
You can't be riffing off theperson that you're impersonating
it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So what I'm hearing is, for the first time, that you
have been impersonating mebehind my back.
Who's your audience?
Whoever will listen, it's yourchildren.
Shall we get on with the show.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So the reason, tammy, that we are taking a whiff
around the globe is that rightnow, we are amidst a global
election.
Jewish diasporas around theworld are casting their vote for
who they would like torepresent them at the World
(05:55):
Zionist Congress.
As I mentioned at the top ofthe episode, this is the second
part in our conversation aboutZionism.
If you didn't hear last week'sconversation with Adam Kirsch, I
strongly recommend you do,because Adam put forward the
argument that now is the timefor Jewish people to reclaim the
word Zionism.
(06:17):
In this week's conversation,we're taking a look at what is
the application of Zionism,because this word is nearly 150
years old, dates back into the1800s, its understanding is
varied and in the last few yearsit's been very much sullied and
very much lost andmisunderstood.
So what does it actually meanto be a Zionist today and to
(06:43):
apply that word as well?
Our guest today is someone whois actually heading a slate in
the Australian part of theseelections for what's called
Hatikva, australia.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And if you're like me and you're like what is a slate
, beyond a type of tile, dash.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, look, a slate is not a term I would have
usually used, but they all seemto be talking about the slates.
So essentially, we are talkingabout a grouping of candidates
that are standing for electionin the World's Artist Congress.
Hatikva, australia, has beenput together in the leading to
this election, but they're notthe only ones.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
That's right.
There are five right.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
There are five.
There are five MizrahiAustralia, australian Friends of
Likud, eretz, hakarosh and AzaMazorti are the other four
tickets in addition to HatikvaAustralia.
You can read more about them,their policies, what they stand
for, who's representing them, onthe Jewish Independent website,
(07:48):
where we've got coverage, andwe'll have coverage after the
election as well, to see wherethe votes fell.
I just want you to know thatwe're not advocating for any one
particular slate here,unashamed to admit.
Really, what we wanted to dotoday in the conversation is to
(08:08):
understand from one candidatewhy they're participating, and
today's guest is a veryarticulate voice, someone that's
grown up in the AustralianJewish community and, in
particular, has a very activerole in climate research and
(08:28):
advocacy.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So, without any further ado, here is our
interview with Head of HatikvaAustralia, romy Zinger.
Romy Zinger, thanks so much forjoining us on A Shame to Admit.
(08:52):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I'm excited to be here.
Romy, as our listeners havejust heard, you've had a career
working at the intersection ofscience, sustainability and
public policy at theintersection of science,
sustainability and public policy.
I'd like to hear a little bitabout your upbringing and your
formative experiences that ledyou into this world.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Oh Dash, getting straight in there with the
childhood.
So I guess fighting for what'sjust and fair has been instilled
within me from the verybeginning.
I grew up in a household ofactivists social activists,
environmental activists, humanrights advocates and I was
raised in a home where we weretaught to understand the
difference between equity andequality, where political debate
(09:36):
was the norm at the dinnertable, so it was a really sort
of central feature in our familylife.
My parents took me to ralliesas a young kid as well, fighting
for what's right, particularlyrefugees, descendants from
Holocaust survivors.
So that's been a reallyimportant feature in our life.
Something that my bubahanawhich means grandma in Yiddish
(09:56):
for other people always said tome was never look up to see what
you don't have, but look to seehow you can help and where you
can help, and that's somethingthat's really sort of been
central in the way that I'veviewed the world.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Romy these days.
Your work with soil, foodsystems and climate resilience
touches on deep issues ofsurvival and justice.
I'm curious to know do you seethat as a form of tikkun olam,
and maybe we can have a quickexplainer of what that is for
our non-Jewish listeners.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Tikkun Olam is a Hebrew phrase meaning repairing
the world or healing the world,and it reflects core Jewish
values the moral responsibilityto make the world more just,
compassionate and whole, andthere's a lot of literature that
you can read about it and it'ssomething really I encourage you
to explore a bit more broadlyat home if you have the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Tikkun olam is a phrase that's held up
particularly in certain circleswithin the Jewish community.
You mentioned before that youcame from an activist family and
a very politically aware andattuned family, and one that had
an environmental consciousness.
Was tikkun olam even discussedaround the family?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It wasn't directly discussed as a concept, but our
entire life revolved around itand that's really led me to, I
suppose, my life's work and mycareer so far being actually
driven by that concept of TikkunOlam.
I just want to leave the worlda little bit better than how I
found it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So many, if not most, australian Jews who end up
working in justice, be it insocial justice or environmental
justice or even in the lawitself, have had their political
awakening formed throughZionist youth movements.
Was that the case for you?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Absolutely.
I am actually third generationHashem HaTzir, which is a
Zionist youth movement and it'sstraight out of Poland.
Originally.
They trained young adults inPoland to be ready to move to
Israel, make Aliyah and to buildthe Kibbutzim.
So that's something that youknow is all through my blood,
something that's so deeplyimportant to me our Zionist
youth movements.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Hashi.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Hang on.
I've never heard of it before.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You've never heard of Hashi Tammy.
What?
No, They've got Hashi in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't think they do .
No, they all made Aliyah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Don't shame me for not knowing this.
Hang on.
What's the?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
full name.
So the full name is HashomeHatzair, shortened in Australia,
like we do with everything,tahashi.
It's sort of the founders ofthe kibbutz movement in Israel.
Strong political social justiceactivism, zionist youth
organization, and we like to doa little bit of scouting too on
the side.
So you had summer camps andthings like that, absolutely and
(12:45):
things like that, absolutely soevery winter, every summer,
from grade two to year 12 andthen following I stayed on in
the movement to lead themovement for many years as well
as just sort of contribute whereI could, and I'm actually back
in Harsham Althea now.
We've actually created a BeitTarabut, a life movement.
So it's an exciting new projectthat I'm picking up and helping
drive forward so that peoplefrom the age of zero to 100
(13:08):
actually have a place to expresstheir Hugshamah pathways in
Australia and continue thatideological journey as a Zionist
.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Can you still go on summer camps as an adult?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
You know what?
We actually ran a summer campfor families this year.
Oh lovely, it was over threedays out in the forest in
Belgrave, just outside ofMelbourne.
We had 120 people come, kidswith parents, and it was such a
vibe, any swinging between theparents.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
But that's what you go to youth movements for.
You go to PASH.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
For the schmutz For the schmutz.
No, it was a very well-behavedsituation.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Was there a lot of talk about environmental
activism in the Hashi days, ordid that come more at home?
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Activism is a huge part of the Hashi ideology.
So, really walking the talk,you know we would sit around and
we'd have intense ideologicaldiscussions.
But what good are discussionsif you don't act on your
ideology?
So we were really known forbeing out in the community,
being quite outspoken, attendingrallies, you know, driving for
human rights and equality.
But you know I actuallywouldn't define myself as an
(14:09):
activist ever Scientist, yes,community builder, yes,
self-proclaimed nerd, 100%.
But activist really isn't aword that sits in how I view
myself at all.
Why is that?
I suppose from my perspective,I live a great privileged life
and I have a wonderful family.
I live a great privileged lifeand I have a wonderful family,
(14:30):
roof over my head and education,a community, and with the
privilege comes greatresponsibility.
So it's just what I'm supposedto do.
I just feel that I'm called todo that kind of work and yeah, I
don't know.
Do you know the words of Hillel?
If not now, then when?
Yes, so it's about that callingto do what's right.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We need to address something that I'm ashamed to
admit I'd never heard of, and Ido know that there are other
listeners who are in the sameposition as me.
I'd never heard of the WorldZionist Congress or the upcoming
elections until I met you.
So what is it all about and whyshould Jews care about it?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
It's actually really nothing to be ashamed of, Tammy,
because I don't think many Jewsin Australia have heard of what
the World Zionist Congress isbefore or why it matters,
because we've never gone toproper elections here in
Australia.
This is a really new experiencefor the Australian Jewish
community.
Now, what is the ZionistCongress?
So it was established 128 yearsago by Theodor Herzl and it's a
(15:32):
powerful democratic forum whereJews around the world can help
shape Israel's future and Jewishlife.
So it meets every five years tomake key decisions about the
direction of Zionism and theallocation of billions in
funding for Jewish and Israelicauses.
The other really importantthing to know about the Congress
is that it sets policies andfunding priorities for the World
Zionist Organisation.
(15:52):
So I guess its compositioninfluences leadership,
influences, governance andbudget decisions for key
institutions.
So the Jewish Agency for Israeland Jewish National Fund.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Why should Australian Jews care?
Or?
Speaker 3 (16:06):
vote.
Oh, so much to care about.
Okay.
So, as it's the only globaldemocratic platform for Jews
across the diaspora to have adirect say in Israel and global
Zionism, we need to show up tohave our voices heard.
So the decisions made at theWorld Zionist Congress affects
things here in Australia too.
It affects things like Jewishand Zionist education, our youth
(16:28):
movements, our Aliyah program,our diaspora, israel relations
and the ideological direction ofthe Zionist movement itself.
And, of course, decisions madeat this World Zionist Congress
in 2025 will shape Israel andthe Jewish diaspora for the next
generations.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So I wasn't aware that there have been preclusions
on Australian Jews voting forand selecting candidates to go
to the Congress.
What were the past barriers inplace for voting and what's
happened at this year's election?
That's different.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So it's not that there were barriers to voting
beforehand.
It's more that our communityhas made decisions in the
leadership bodies based on aproportional representation of
different types of Jewishexpression, whether that be
religious to non-religious andsecular.
So there are various partiesrunning throughout these
elections.
What's different this year isthat we're going to full
(17:20):
elections and that's beingdriven by the need for us to
really understand whatAustralian Jews have to say.
What are our opinions?
How do we feel?
What do we want for our Zionistfuture, for our children's
experience of Israel, for ourlife here in the diaspora?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So it sounds like we're giving people who would
previously just give theiropinions on Instagram an
opportunity to put their moneywhere their mouth is.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Oh, that's an interesting way to put it.
I suppose so.
So you know, it's taking thingsfrom having an opinion to doing
something about it.
This is a real way thatAustralian Jews can affect
change.
It's an enormous opportunity, ademocratic right to engage with
this process.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So I encourage our listeners to go to our website.
We will have a little bit ofcoverage over the next couple of
weeks on the Congress and, ofcourse, once the votes have been
tallied and the representativeshave been elected, we'll have
some analysis on who is headedto the Congress.
So I believe that there arefive tickets pursuing the 13
(18:29):
slots or mandates that have beenmade available to the
Australian Jewish community.
So we have Aza Mazorti, whichpresumably represents the Reform
Mazorti community here inAustralia.
Hatik for Australia, your veryown.
We have Likud, which Ianticipate is aligned with
Israel's Likud party, mizrahiAustralia and for those who
(18:52):
aren't familiar with Mizrahi,it's typically aligned with the
religious Zionist movement.
And then Eretz HaKorosh.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Also, you were about to explain the idea that there's
13 people can go, but there arefive different groups that you
can choose people from.
Explain it to me like you're mybat mitzvah teacher and I'm 13
years old.
Okay, sure.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So we have 13 mandates available, and
Australia receives 13 mandatesbased on the size of its Jewish
population.
So all across the world theseelections are going on as well.
Depending on the size of yourJewish population determines how
many seats you get at thattable.
So currently, in theseelections, all these various
(19:38):
political sites not necessarilypolitical, but all these various
slates in Australia are vyingfor these seats.
So how it works is it's basedon the number of votes in total
that are received, so everysingle vote counts, and then
they divide that total number ofvotes by the number of seats,
and so that tells you how manyvotes you need to get to achieve
(19:59):
one mandate or delegateposition, and so each slate has
its own list of people,candidates that they're putting
forward.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So ideally all 13 of you could go.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
That would be magnificent.
What an achievement.
That would be All right.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
But realistically, how many do you think will be
able to go?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You know, that is such an unknown, because it's
the first time we've gone toelections in Australia.
There's no data for us to haveany insights around the size of
the voice that stands behindTICFA.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I've had it in the last couple of weeks for us to
have any insights around thesize of the voice that stands
behind Tikva.
I've had it in the last coupleof weeks.
Lots of people come to mesoliciting my vote, which is
funny because I'm not sure thatI'd be eligible under the rules
of being able to vote.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Is that because people assume you're Jewish?
People just assume that you are, that's right.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
So I've got people Romy, from both your ticket to
Tikva and from AZA coming to meseeking my vote, and I haven't
had anyone yet from Likud.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
There's still time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Welcome to be solicited by Likud
representatives in Australia andthe others too.
But I guess I'm left wonderinglike are you not going to have a
split vote, like the ASAmajority ticket?
When I read about it, hearabout it and then hear about
yours, as we just did, I'm likeyou're advocating for many of
the same things.
(21:16):
In the end, your ability togarner votes is going to be
split because your platforms areactually quite similar.
I take it there's no value inmerging the two tickets because
they clearly represent reformmajority.
But talk to me about thepossibility of that vote being
split, because surely that's onyour minds at the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
You know, what's really important is that Jewish
Australians step up and havetheir voice heard.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
That's the most important thing.
It's the first time that wehave the opportunity to go to
elections, and the more Jews inAustralia that actually show up
to vote, the more that we'll berepresented in the way that
suits our community at thattable, and for me that's what's
really important.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
I guess, romy, I hear what you say about the
potential impact that this couldhave.
But for those progressive,liberal Zionists that are seeing
what they feel to be the kindof dismantling of Israeli
democracy and its replacementwith a ultra-nationalist, a
(22:20):
religious to the extreme, formof settler power, how can this
Zionist Congress, which doesn'thave a representation in the
Knesset, that won't have a seatat the table of the Israeli
government or a future coalition, how can it actually change the
(22:41):
course of the state of Israel?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
The World Zionist Congress is the democratic forum
that elects people into power,to positions all throughout the
World Zionist Organization, andthe World Zionist Organization
is a very, very heavy lifterwhen it comes to policy
decisions, when it comes tofunding allocation.
We're not talking small amountsof funding here.
It's $5 billion over afive-year term.
(23:06):
So if we have a strong,progressive Zionist voice at
that decision-making table, wecan elect people into leadership
roles in the JNS.
So where are those trees goingto be planted?
Is the funding going to go toillegal settlements, or is it
going to stay in Israel torebuild after those devastating
wildfires that we saw recently,to rebuild after war?
There's so many opportunitiesto make sure that that funding
(23:29):
goes exactly where it's needed.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
We had a conversation last week with Adam Kirsch off
the back of his article in theJewish Quarterly, and so Adam's
thesis is that it's veryimportant for Jewish people to
reclaim their land, zionism, andto reclaim that term Zionist.
I'm interested in yourexperience, romy.
(23:53):
You have worked in the climatesector.
What has it been like for youin the last 18 months as a
Zionist, as someone who feels astrong attachment, affiliation
with the state of Israel andwith Zionism, and as a former
Zionist youth movement leader inthat part of Australia where we
have seen a kind of uproar ofintolerance and an uproar of
(24:19):
anger directed at Zionism andZionists?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I think, like most people in Australia and around
the world, october 7 rocked myworld, absolutely, flipped it
upside down.
Having lived on Kibbutz Nerozfor quite a while, a lot of
people I deeply love died, heldhostage or luckily survived.
So framing the past 18 monthswith an enormous amount of
(24:45):
community grief, personal griefshortly after October 7, losing
my father, added to thatcumulative grief and then, in
many ways, being told thatbecause I'm a Zionist, I don't
belong in my prior activistcommunities or political spheres
, has been immensely challenging.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Have you lost friendships and collaborations
as well professional connections?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I'm really proud to say that it hasn't affected my
professional life.
In that respect, I work withincredible academics and
intelligent humans whounderstand nuance and complexity
, but I don't think that'severyone's experience.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Have you had conversations with people to
help them understand and seeyour perspective and your
experience?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Oh, I think a minimum of one a day.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Really Well, good on you, because I imagine that you
know the impulse for otherswould be to step back from
having conversations, to feel onthe attack, to feel insecure
about their place in thesespaces, in these organisations.
But you've actually steppedinto it and you've wanted people
(25:56):
to understand the Jewishperspective and the Zionist
perspective.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Absolutely.
Having a voice as a Zionist isan important one.
I'm not going to pretend thatit's an easy one.
Launching this campaign forHigh Tech for Australia has
opened up the online space forlet's call them yucky comments,
for want of a better phrase.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Vitriol.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, it's not been pleasant, but it's important.
If we don't stand up for whatwe believe in and the future
that we want for Israel andJewish life in the diaspora, we
let other people decide for uslife in the diaspora.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We let other people decide for us.
So I'm interested in how youhave reframed Zionism, or being
a Zionist, to your non-Jewish,environmental or politically
progressive or even AustralianGreens voting, supporting
friends, colleagues and others.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
For me it's simple Do all peoples have the right to
self-determination?
Yes, does that exclude Jews?
Absolutely not.
Is that where my Zionism comesfrom?
100%, it's very, very easy, andif people can't step into the
humanity then we can't have aconversation and unfortunately,
that just has to be okay.
I can't convince people if theycan't step into humanity.
(27:09):
You know, everyone definesZionism so differently, even
within our own community.
I wouldn't want to presume thatZionism what it means to me,
means to somebody else, and Ithink it's important to have
safe, careful dialogues toexplore that and allow people to
express themselves.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Rami, I'm absolutely floored by you and the amazing
work that you're doing.
You've achieved all thesethings.
You're probably referred to asa really good person by a lot of
people, but do you have anylittle dirty secrets?
Is there anything you'reashamed to admit?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
I have an embarrassing little thing that
I'm ashamed about.
Okay, so every time I drivethrough the Bagel Belt in
Melbourne, I cannot help myselfbut stop off at the Jewish
bakery and buy myself thedeep-fried gefilte fish balls
and sit in my car and have anosh Ashkenazi to the max.
(28:06):
Where do you get thesedeep-fried fish balls?
They're from Glick's Bakery tothe max.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Where do you get these deep fried fish balls?
They're from Glicks Bakery.
So, romy, I've been led tobelieve that it's a very
straightforward, easy way forAustralian Jews to vote in the
Congress for their Australianrepresentatives.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can do it.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Well, what's really important to know is that voting
is open.
Now closes on the 27th of July,so we've got a short few more
weeks period in which people canget out there and vote.
To vote, you have to be 18 plus, you have to be permanently
residing in Australia and youcan't have voted in the Knesset
elections that have just been,because you're not allowed to
double dip on your voting and itonly costs $5 and that $5 is
(28:47):
considered the Zionist shekel.
So 1897, Theodor Herzl proposedthe Zionist shekel as the idea
of formally affiliating with theZionist movement.
Aside from that, actually,locally, the $5 is contributing
to making sure that the onlinevoting platform, which I'm sure
we can provide the links to withthe podcast, is secure, that
(29:08):
your data is protected and itmaintains a healthy online
platform.
So it is really easy.
It takes about two minutes todo to get online to cast your
vote.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Did Hatikva consider getting Glix on board, that with
every vote you get a free deepfried fish ball?
Because that was that ever inthe meeting room?
No, I'm available forconsulting, just so you know my
dream.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Romy, best of luck to you, your ticket, and all the
other tickets or slates that arecontesting the election.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Next year in Jerusalem, Baruch Hashem.
But actually where is the WorldZionist Congress?
If you get to go, what city?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It is in Jerusalem this October.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
How could it be anywhere else?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Thanks, Romy.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That was research scientist, creative communicator
and community builder RomyZinger, who is head of the
Hatikva.
Australia slate in the WorldZionist Congress elections.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You have until the end of July to cast your vote.
We'll leave a link in the shownotes.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
And that's it for this week.
You've been listening to AShame to Admit with me Tammy
Sussman.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
And me, Dash Lawrence , here in the City of Churches.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
This episode was mixed and edited by Nick King,
with theme music by DonovanJenks.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
If you like the episode, forward it to a mate.
Tell them that it's even moreenjoyable than a pie floater.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh, it's just a thing that we eat in Adelaide.
It's a pie.
A pie floater it's a pieswimming in a puddle of pea soup
.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
It used to be served from a particular van on the
parade in Norwood.
Yeah, delicious.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
As always, thanks for your support and if you haven't
died from eating too many piefloaters in Adelaide, look out
for us next week.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
See you then, thank you.
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