January 27, 2025 • 25 mins
The end of January means ‘back to school’ time here in Australia. Counting down the days to regain your personal space? Enjoy a bit of nostalgia? Still wake up at 4am to ruminate about the shameful thing you did in Grade 4? You’ll enjoy the very last instalment of “Summer Shames”.
This episode was brought to you by Talia Levy Realty
https://www.talialevyrealty.com.au/
https://www.instagram.com/talia_levy_realty/
If you like this episode, you might like:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/a-week-of-fighting-australias-antisemitism-crisis
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/when-they-ask-about-doing-well-at-school
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/owning-the-problems-in-jewish-schools-is-necessary-for-change
Email your feedback and voice memos here: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
Subscribe to The Jewish Independent's bi-weekly newsletter: jewishindependent.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dachshund Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hi Tammy.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Hi Dash, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Pretty good, you know , getting through some hot days,
getting through a lot ofchildcare, looking after the
kids, while also still jugglingwork and all the other demands
of life.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
The parents are looking tired at this time of
year in Australia, especiallyparents of small kids.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, take my children please.
Yeah, I'll be saying to theircarer and their teacher very
shortly.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So the private schools in Australia, at least
in Sydney, are going back aroundthe end of Jan, public schools
beginning of Feb.
It's got me thinking aboutschool again, starting school.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Back to school.
What a time of year, yeah.
It always evokes a lot for mewhenever you get to the end of
January.
So it takes me right back to myparticularly my primary school
years.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, same here.
I remember towards the end ofJanuary when the Officeworks
back to school ads startedcoming on the television that I
knew I was in trouble.
I was like no, it's coming forus, it's back again.
But did love a littleOfficeworks haul as a no, yeah,
it's coming for us.
Oh, it's back again.
But did love a littleOfficeworks haul as a kid.
Yeah Dash, the reason why I'vebrought you here today for our
(02:12):
final Summer Shames episodebefore we go back to programming
as usual, when I wake up at 4amto ruminate about all of my
regrets, all the stupid thingsI've said, which you might be
surprised to hear is quite anextensive list.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm not surprised to hear that.
I am surprised that you wake upat 4.30, though that's
unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So quite often when I wake up at 4.30 in the morning,
I think about primary school,the silly things I said, the
naughty things I did, and I havesome regrets.
I don't have regrets about thecheekiness, I just have regrets
about the people who were caughtin the crossfire.
The reason that I'm not ashamedof what I did anymore is
(03:00):
because it has since made forgreat storytelling, a lot of
which is in my middle gradenovels.
So that happened.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay, very nice.
So this is also a plug for yourmost recent book, nice.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's not a plug for my most recent book.
However, just as an asidebefore I continue on with
today's episode, a lot of thethings that happened in that
book were inspired by not basedon inspired by true events that
took place in a primary schooland a synagogue in the suburb of
(03:40):
Kingsford, maroubra, right ofKingsford.
Maroubra which, as we have justdiscovered, is the site close by
the childcare centre that gotfirebombed.
So I don't want to bring thetone down, but I just want to
say that when stuff like thathappens, anti-semitic,
(04:02):
anti-jewish attacks, happensanti-Semitic anti-Jewish attacks
.
It does really hit differentwhen it's in your neighborhood
and I just want to acknowledgethat I'm thinking of all the
people in that area, I mean allaround Australia.
But this week has beenparticularly difficult, but,
(04:22):
true to form, particularlydifficult but true to form.
I will be using humour as a wayof coping and processing.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So Dash, I will be sharing some of the most
shameful things that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I did in primary and high school.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But first I will be selecting the highlights.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, because you're right, it is a long list.
But first I'm going to throw toyou and ask what kind of a kid
were you?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, like you, I do have many shameful episodes.
They don't wake me up at 4.30in the morning and I don't
continue to cogitate over them,but there are some things that
come up every now and again,Because we're talking about
primary school kids and the factthat you and I both have
children that are startingschool this year, which is
(05:17):
thrilling and exciting andnerve-wracking, and all those
things my mind does take me backto those sort of earliest
foundational experiences atschool where I got into some
sort of trouble, which was you'dbe surprised to know, Tammy
quite frequent when I was inprimary school.
Look, this is not particularlyshameful, but it definitely
(05:39):
stayed in my memory and has beenevoked in more recent times.
My memory and has been evokedin more recent times.
So, when I was in year one,they built a brand new
playground in my primary schooland naturally all the children
were incredibly excited about itand it was a big deal for the
school and our year one teacherinstructed us all to illustrate
(06:02):
the new playground, and I wasn'tmuch of a drawer or an
illustrator.
I was, however, obsessed withflags and Japan, so for some
reason, the playground wasillustrated with a giant
(06:31):
Japanese flag in the middle ofit, even though there wasn't one
there.
And when the teacher camearound to examine and make
commentary on the variousillustrations of the playground,
she stopped at mine and held itup and acknowledged in front of
the class that my playgroundlooks nothing like the one
(06:54):
outside.
And she grabbed me by the hand.
She was angry, Took me outsideyeah, I know You're looking
quizzically, it's very, verystrange Dragged me outside and
said Dashiell, look at thatplayground.
Where is the Japanese flag?
Can you see one?
Can you see one?
(07:15):
And I said no, I can't see one.
Then why did you draw aplayground with a Japanese flag?
And I was feeling shamed.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I felt Devo did you cry.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Possibly, yeah, yeah, there were incidents like that
dotted throughout my whole yearsat primary school where I
didn't follow instructions rightor I wasn't attentive, or I
wasn't keeping up witheverything in class and, yeah,
the tears did well up and thatcould have been one of them.
I just thought it was like meHang on.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What's her name?
Name and shame.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Her name.
She actually wasn't a badteacher, otherwise from memory.
But yes, I'm sorry to drop youinto this, mrs Stamos.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Stamos, mrs Stamos.
That's right Any relation toJohn Stamos, Uncle Jesse from
Full House.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
From Full House?
Yeah, quite possibly.
You never know Distant cousin.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Because then she could be forgiven.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Name of the school.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, now we're really I can't say the name of
the school.
It was a big inner city stateschool.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Inner city Adelaide.
Inner city Adelaide.
That's where I grew up, publicschool.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Public school, but it was a big, big-ish public
school with a playground thatmost definitely did not have any
flags in it, let alone a flagof Japan.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dash, I think you have grounds to sue.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, that's what I was looking for.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Bloody, horrendous.
It's unacceptable.
Perhaps Miss Stamos had justhad a fight with her husband.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That morning.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
He's like where's the Vegemite?
And she's like in the fridge.
And he's like I can't find it.
And she's like open your eyes.
He's like, come over here.
And she's like, leave me alone,I'm trying to do a poo in peace
.
And he's like, please, I needthe Vegemite.
So she comes, she looks for theVegemite, she sees it straight
away and she's like can you justbloody open your eyes?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That happens in my house all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So she brought that to school that day and so
Projected onto me.
When you committed the crimeagainst humanity of drawing a
Japanese flag on a playground.
Give her the benefit of thedoubt.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it is interesting, is it not, tammy,
that something that happened 34years ago I can still remember
with great clarity, and it kindof comes up now that I've got a
child that's about to startschool.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Do you think it's fair to say that most teachers
in the 90s were psychopaths andshouldn't have been teachers?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was a different time.
In answer to your question, yes, I think so.
I had a number of teachers inthe 90s that if I knew they were
doing those things to mychildren I would be ropeable.
Now it was just post-corporalpunishment and so the line
(10:16):
between, like physicalpunishment and just kind of
everyday punishment given tochildren was very fine, but I
believe things have come a longway.
I'm about to find out prettysoon.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well, just from what I've seen visiting schools when
I do author talks and thingswith my book, so that Happened,
Just throw that in there again.
So I get to meet a lot ofdifferent teachers and the
overall feeling that I get isthat most of them these days are
(10:49):
pretty kind, pretty warm,pretty happy to be there.
They're burnt out, especiallythe ones in public schools.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
But they seem to be genuinely good people with good
intentions.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I don't think there was the same appreciation
for individual learning needsand preferences and ways of
being in the world.
So I think now that'scelebrated and teachers are
expected to work around thechildren and their needs and who
they are and what they bring,and a celebration of multiple
(11:24):
intelligences.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Celebration resentment.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
What were you like as a primary schooler?
Were you sort of cheeky andprovocative and a bit silly?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So when I started primary school I was very shy
and anxious, but my older sisterwas an extrovert very outgoing,
wanted to do drama classesafter school and my mother
thought that that might help mecome out of my shell.
So she sent me to drama classesand that's where I-.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's where you blossomed.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's where a monster was created.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Right, we've got primary school drama classes to
blame for this, do we?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, we do.
I also fell into a bit of awrong crowd.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You turned bad, you broke bad.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I'm still very good friends with like a core group
of people from that tiny primaryschool, mount Sinai College,
and there were only 30 of us, ohyeah, mount Sinai alumni.
In our grade, a little Jewishday school in Kingsford, I had
my core group of besties andthen the one with the best moral
(12:38):
compass.
She went overseas for a fewyears because her dad got a job
in Singapore, and when she went,all hell broke loose.
So then, yeah.
So then another girl becameQueen Bee.
She listens to this show.
Shout out to Talia and I'mgoing to ask her to sponsor this
(12:59):
episode.
Actually.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Did Talia turn Queen Bee?
Was she?
Did she rule the roost in?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
She then ruled the roost and she was naughty and.
I f***ing loved it.
She brought out something in methat was definitely in there.
I'd been capping it to getapproval from Jax, who was the
good girl.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And then Jax left and then Talia stepped up and I met
her and we stirred up.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
You ran right, didn't you?
Poor little Mount Sinai hadnever seen anything like it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, the formidable team.
So when we were in year yearfour, we thought it would be
hilarious if we made up a rumorthat there were ghosts in the
school.
We could bit of drama like ohour school's haunted, give us a
bit of an edge.
And we went around.
(13:55):
If someone, someone, was downone of the aisles of the library
, we'd pop a book off the shelffrom the other side and go oh my
God, it was the ghost.
It sounds innocuous, except wetold the infant's kids.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So the ones in years K to 3, that there were ghosts
in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And then one day we got a knock on our classroom
door from one of the teachersand she said that she didn't
understand why, but all of asudden her year K students were
wetting their pants, oh no.
And it was like this bigmystery apparently.
And then the penny dropped whenone of the kids said I'm too
(14:38):
scared to go to the bathroombecause there are ghosts in
there.
Tammy so, yeah, the kids startedpissing and shitting their
pants.
We got in trouble.
So am I ashamed about the UKkids who were caught in the
crossfire Because now they'recarrying around this shame.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, shat themselves .
Speaker 1 (14:59):
They're probably waking up at 4am and that was my
fault.
So, yes, I'm ashamed, but isthat a f***ing great story now?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It's good, it is really good.
I can see that playing out justas you described that.
Actually, I can see that youwould.
Your instinct would be tofollow the rules and follow
order, but when combined with abit of a wild child, I could see
that, yeah, a very differentTammy Sussman could emerge from
(15:29):
the bottle.
That makes a lot of sense.
It's not that shameful.
I don't think no.
I think you're okay.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
What became of Talia?
She became a bit emo in highschool, but then she came good.
Now she runs a successful realestate company I'm really
emphasising that for hersponsorship and we're still in
touch.
We have a laugh.
She claims she doesn't remembera lot of the stuff that we did.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Of course she doesn't .
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I'm like don't pretend to be too cool for
school, literally.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You do remember.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, she's got an image to maintain.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
A very glamorous image.
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(16:48):
What's your most shameful highschool memory?
God?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I had so many.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
What about did you ever wee or poo your pants?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
No, of course I didn't In high school.
I didn't even do it in primaryschool.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I didn't in primary school either.
Did you ever vandalise?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Did I ever vandalise anything?
Not really.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Did you ever steal someone's lunch?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Not really, did you ever steal someone's lunch?
No, I wasn't someone that wouldsteal things, that much I can
tell you.
Any shame around an outfit or ahaircut.
So yeah, like I recently saw myformal photo, not that long ago
, my very good high schoolfriend reposted it on Facebook
(17:38):
and, my God, like what is itwith suits of that era?
Like they were just so badlycut and tailored.
I guess it's a rite of passageto have really bad hair and
really no sense of fashion whenyou're in your last few years of
school.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
No, I can't relate.
I was a style icon.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Okay, you've dropped a few photos over there.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Not of my late high school, when I was peaking at 17
.
What you just said about badlycut or styled suits they're
coming back in.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay, like in a kind of a normie way.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Not in a normie way.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Not in a normie way, actually in an ironic, like the
cool kids are wearing them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah yeah.
I would definitely wasn't doingit ironically.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Do you feel ashamed about the fact that you haven't
come to this recording preparedwith a high school memory?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I didn't know we needed a high school memory.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Okay, you tell me yours, and then I'll see if I
can come up with another one.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I have an example of when I tried to shame Mariah
College for imposing a strictrule for girls to only wear
light-coloured bras underneaththeir white blouses.
I thought it was unacceptable.
(18:58):
I was a young, blossomingfeminist and in the thick of
summer it was really hot and Ifound wearing bras agitating.
So I thought, you know what?
I'm going to take a leaf out ofthe book created by the sisters
before me.
I'm going to take off that bra,I'm going to free the nip.
Before that expression had evenbeen invented.
(19:21):
And a friend and myself we saidwe are going to take off our
bras and we are not going towear them in protest.
And that's what we did.
And no one noticed, no one gavea gave a shit.
So, um, yeah, after a bit ofchafing, I thought this isn't
what I thought it would be.
And on when that cropped up, so, um yeah, attempt at shaming
(19:46):
the school for arbitrary rules.
Yeah, failed.
Yeah, were you ever rejected byany girls at school in high
school?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Not really at school.
I did have a female friend thatvery kindly became my wing
woman on one occasion when Itold her that I had a crush on
the girl that worked at the newsagency that I used to frequent,
on the girl that worked at thenews agency that I used to
frequent.
It's a news agency and sort ofbookstore and you know I would
(20:19):
go there once or twice a week.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Do we need to explain what a news agency is for our
Gen Z?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Most people know what a news agency is a place where
you would buy magazines.
I know it's not veryfashionable now, but at the time
there were a few periodicalsand magazines that I liked to
purchase.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
And the big sheets of cardboard for a project.
If you didn't live close to anoffice work, you'd have to go to
the local newsagent.
Yeah, they still exist.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I know there's not many of them, but they do still
exist and I liked going to thisone and I also liked the girl
that worked there, had a bit ofa crush on her.
And so, my friend, she said youshould ask her out.
And I was very, very shy andnot particularly experienced or
comfortable in doing that andshe said, look, if you can't do
it, I'll do it for you.
So she-.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Good on her.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So she did.
She went up to the counter Iwasn't within shot because, like
I couldn't handle the pressureof this I went away and she
explained who I was.
And the girl did know who I wasand she said look, would you
consider going out with him on adate?
And it was not positively met.
(21:27):
I can't quite remember whetherit was because she had a
boyfriend already or she wasn'tinterested, or it's just weird
because I'm in the middle ofserving people at this busy news
agency.
But anyway, it was swiftlyknocked back and then so my
friend returned back to me andsaid look, sorry, it's not going
to happen, and I couldn't go tothe news agency ever again
(21:50):
because I was so, so ashamed bymy rejection.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I got over it eventually the shame of
rejection stings and the shameof not having a school science
poster ready because youcouldn't go into the news agency
to buy that big sheet ofcardboard that you could only
get at the news agency.
That would have brought you alot of shame too.
It did, it did.
And was the teacherunderstanding?
Or did she chuck a Miss?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Stamos, that would have brought you a lot of shame
too.
It did, it did.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is and was the teacher understanding, or did
she chuck her, miss Stamos, andtake you outside?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Look, teaching had come a long way by the early
2000s and the teachers I had atthe end of my school just to
bring this back full circle werelovely and very understanding
and totally embraced myparticularities and by the end
of school there was no shamingfrom the teachers and you're
still in touch with your Hebrewteacher.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I'm still in touch with my Hebrew teacher, though I
didn't take Hebrew in year 12.
She was my Hebrew teacher inyear seven and eight.
Gil, who was our pronunciationpatrol in season one, continues
to be yeah, no, I still yeah, Isee my high school teachers
around.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Of course you do See you, since I've heard you say
that Some of them.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, some of them are listening to the show.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right now.
Some of them are giving usfive-star reviews as we speak.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That would make me very happy.
Tammy, we've got to go.
We've got to wrap this up.
We do.
We're going to be back againnext week for the return of A
Shame to Admit in its fullregular version.
We've got lots coming up forseason three, plenty of
interesting conversations, so Ican't wait to return back to our
(23:38):
normal programming with you.
Good luck with your little oneand with their transition to
school.
Do you call it prep or kindy inNew South Wales?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Kindy, kindy.
What do you call it inMelbourne?
Prep, you call it prep whichmakes more sense.
Good luck with you and goodluck with any of our listeners
who have kids starting school.
And if you don't have kidsstarting school but you still
wake up at 4.30 in the morningwith a memory, I'd love to hear
about it.
Please get in touch, take careof yourselves and we'll see you
(24:14):
soon.
You've been listening to SummerShames, the Schvitzisch Fester
podcast of A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about Kosses in Ladino?
Or Dig Dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle.
Or Zug Zug.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Okay, thank you.
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dachshund Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hi Tammy.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Hi Dash, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Pretty good, you know , getting through some hot days,
getting through a lot ofchildcare, looking after the
kids, while also still jugglingwork and all the other demands
of life.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
The parents are looking tired at this time of
year in Australia, especiallyparents of small kids.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, take my children please.
Yeah, I'll be saying to theircarer and their teacher very
shortly.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So the private schools in Australia, at least
in Sydney, are going back aroundthe end of Jan, public schools
beginning of Feb.
It's got me thinking aboutschool again, starting school.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Back to school.
What a time of year, yeah.
It always evokes a lot for mewhenever you get to the end of
January.
So it takes me right back to myparticularly my primary school
years.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, same here.
I remember towards the end ofJanuary when the Officeworks
back to school ads startedcoming on the television that I
knew I was in trouble.
I was like no, it's coming forus, it's back again.
But did love a littleOfficeworks haul as a no, yeah,
it's coming for us.
Oh, it's back again.
But did love a littleOfficeworks haul as a kid.
Yeah Dash, the reason why I'vebrought you here today for our
(02:12):
final Summer Shames episodebefore we go back to programming
as usual, when I wake up at 4amto ruminate about all of my
regrets, all the stupid thingsI've said, which you might be
surprised to hear is quite anextensive list.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm not surprised to hear that.
I am surprised that you wake upat 4.30, though that's
unnecessary.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So quite often when I wake up at 4.30 in the morning,
I think about primary school,the silly things I said, the
naughty things I did, and I havesome regrets.
I don't have regrets about thecheekiness, I just have regrets
about the people who were caughtin the crossfire.
The reason that I'm not ashamedof what I did anymore is
(03:00):
because it has since made forgreat storytelling, a lot of
which is in my middle gradenovels.
So that happened.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Okay, very nice.
So this is also a plug for yourmost recent book, nice.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's not a plug for my most recent book.
However, just as an asidebefore I continue on with
today's episode, a lot of thethings that happened in that
book were inspired by not basedon inspired by true events that
took place in a primary schooland a synagogue in the suburb of
(03:40):
Kingsford, maroubra, right ofKingsford.
Maroubra which, as we have justdiscovered, is the site close by
the childcare centre that gotfirebombed.
So I don't want to bring thetone down, but I just want to
say that when stuff like thathappens, anti-semitic,
(04:02):
anti-jewish attacks, happensanti-Semitic anti-Jewish attacks
.
It does really hit differentwhen it's in your neighborhood
and I just want to acknowledgethat I'm thinking of all the
people in that area, I mean allaround Australia.
But this week has beenparticularly difficult, but,
(04:22):
true to form, particularlydifficult but true to form.
I will be using humour as a wayof coping and processing.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So Dash, I will be sharing some of the most
shameful things that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I did in primary and high school.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But first I will be selecting the highlights.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, because you're right, it is a long list.
But first I'm going to throw toyou and ask what kind of a kid
were you?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, like you, I do have many shameful episodes.
They don't wake me up at 4.30in the morning and I don't
continue to cogitate over them,but there are some things that
come up every now and again,Because we're talking about
primary school kids and the factthat you and I both have
children that are startingschool this year, which is
(05:17):
thrilling and exciting andnerve-wracking, and all those
things my mind does take me backto those sort of earliest
foundational experiences atschool where I got into some
sort of trouble, which was you'dbe surprised to know, Tammy
quite frequent when I was inprimary school.
Look, this is not particularlyshameful, but it definitely
(05:39):
stayed in my memory and has beenevoked in more recent times.
My memory and has been evokedin more recent times.
So, when I was in year one,they built a brand new
playground in my primary schooland naturally all the children
were incredibly excited about itand it was a big deal for the
school and our year one teacherinstructed us all to illustrate
(06:02):
the new playground, and I wasn'tmuch of a drawer or an
illustrator.
I was, however, obsessed withflags and Japan, so for some
reason, the playground wasillustrated with a giant
(06:31):
Japanese flag in the middle ofit, even though there wasn't one
there.
And when the teacher camearound to examine and make
commentary on the variousillustrations of the playground,
she stopped at mine and held itup and acknowledged in front of
the class that my playgroundlooks nothing like the one
(06:54):
outside.
And she grabbed me by the hand.
She was angry, Took me outsideyeah, I know You're looking
quizzically, it's very, verystrange Dragged me outside and
said Dashiell, look at thatplayground.
Where is the Japanese flag?
Can you see one?
Can you see one?
(07:15):
And I said no, I can't see one.
Then why did you draw aplayground with a Japanese flag?
And I was feeling shamed.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I felt Devo did you cry.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Possibly, yeah, yeah, there were incidents like that
dotted throughout my whole yearsat primary school where I
didn't follow instructions rightor I wasn't attentive, or I
wasn't keeping up witheverything in class and, yeah,
the tears did well up and thatcould have been one of them.
I just thought it was like meHang on.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What's her name?
Name and shame.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Her name.
She actually wasn't a badteacher, otherwise from memory.
But yes, I'm sorry to drop youinto this, mrs Stamos.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Stamos, mrs Stamos.
That's right Any relation toJohn Stamos, Uncle Jesse from
Full House.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
From Full House?
Yeah, quite possibly.
You never know Distant cousin.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Because then she could be forgiven.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Name of the school.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, now we're really I can't say the name of
the school.
It was a big inner city stateschool.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Inner city Adelaide.
Inner city Adelaide.
That's where I grew up, publicschool.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Public school, but it was a big, big-ish public
school with a playground thatmost definitely did not have any
flags in it, let alone a flagof Japan.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dash, I think you have grounds to sue.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, that's what I was looking for.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Bloody, horrendous.
It's unacceptable.
Perhaps Miss Stamos had justhad a fight with her husband.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That morning.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
He's like where's the Vegemite?
And she's like in the fridge.
And he's like I can't find it.
And she's like open your eyes.
He's like, come over here.
And she's like, leave me alone,I'm trying to do a poo in peace
.
And he's like, please, I needthe Vegemite.
So she comes, she looks for theVegemite, she sees it straight
away and she's like can you justbloody open your eyes?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That happens in my house all the time.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So she brought that to school that day and so
Projected onto me.
When you committed the crimeagainst humanity of drawing a
Japanese flag on a playground.
Give her the benefit of thedoubt.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, it is interesting, is it not, tammy,
that something that happened 34years ago I can still remember
with great clarity, and it kindof comes up now that I've got a
child that's about to startschool.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Do you think it's fair to say that most teachers
in the 90s were psychopaths andshouldn't have been teachers?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It was a different time.
In answer to your question, yes, I think so.
I had a number of teachers inthe 90s that if I knew they were
doing those things to mychildren I would be ropeable.
Now it was just post-corporalpunishment and so the line
(10:16):
between, like physicalpunishment and just kind of
everyday punishment given tochildren was very fine, but I
believe things have come a longway.
I'm about to find out prettysoon.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well, just from what I've seen visiting schools when
I do author talks and thingswith my book, so that Happened,
Just throw that in there again.
So I get to meet a lot ofdifferent teachers and the
overall feeling that I get isthat most of them these days are
(10:49):
pretty kind, pretty warm,pretty happy to be there.
They're burnt out, especiallythe ones in public schools.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
But they seem to be genuinely good people with good
intentions.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I don't think there was the same appreciation
for individual learning needsand preferences and ways of
being in the world.
So I think now that'scelebrated and teachers are
expected to work around thechildren and their needs and who
they are and what they bring,and a celebration of multiple
(11:24):
intelligences.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Celebration resentment.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
What were you like as a primary schooler?
Were you sort of cheeky andprovocative and a bit silly?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So when I started primary school I was very shy
and anxious, but my older sisterwas an extrovert very outgoing,
wanted to do drama classesafter school and my mother
thought that that might help mecome out of my shell.
So she sent me to drama classesand that's where I-.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's where you blossomed.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's where a monster was created.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Right, we've got primary school drama classes to
blame for this, do we?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, we do.
I also fell into a bit of awrong crowd.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You turned bad, you broke bad.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I'm still very good friends with like a core group
of people from that tiny primaryschool, mount Sinai College,
and there were only 30 of us, ohyeah, mount Sinai alumni.
In our grade, a little Jewishday school in Kingsford, I had
my core group of besties andthen the one with the best moral
(12:38):
compass.
She went overseas for a fewyears because her dad got a job
in Singapore, and when she went,all hell broke loose.
So then, yeah.
So then another girl becameQueen Bee.
She listens to this show.
Shout out to Talia and I'mgoing to ask her to sponsor this
(12:59):
episode.
Actually.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Did Talia turn Queen Bee?
Was she?
Did she rule the roost in?
Speaker 1 (13:04):
She then ruled the roost and she was naughty and.
I f***ing loved it.
She brought out something in methat was definitely in there.
I'd been capping it to getapproval from Jax, who was the
good girl.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And then Jax left and then Talia stepped up and I met
her and we stirred up.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
You ran right, didn't you?
Poor little Mount Sinai hadnever seen anything like it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, the formidable team.
So when we were in year yearfour, we thought it would be
hilarious if we made up a rumorthat there were ghosts in the
school.
We could bit of drama like ohour school's haunted, give us a
bit of an edge.
And we went around.
(13:55):
If someone, someone, was downone of the aisles of the library
, we'd pop a book off the shelffrom the other side and go oh my
God, it was the ghost.
It sounds innocuous, except wetold the infant's kids.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
So the ones in years K to 3, that there were ghosts
in the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
And then one day we got a knock on our classroom
door from one of the teachersand she said that she didn't
understand why, but all of asudden her year K students were
wetting their pants, oh no.
And it was like this bigmystery apparently.
And then the penny dropped whenone of the kids said I'm too
(14:38):
scared to go to the bathroombecause there are ghosts in
there.
Tammy so, yeah, the kids startedpissing and shitting their
pants.
We got in trouble.
So am I ashamed about the UKkids who were caught in the
crossfire Because now they'recarrying around this shame.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, shat themselves .
Speaker 1 (14:59):
They're probably waking up at 4am and that was my
fault.
So, yes, I'm ashamed, but isthat a f***ing great story now?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It's good, it is really good.
I can see that playing out justas you described that.
Actually, I can see that youwould.
Your instinct would be tofollow the rules and follow
order, but when combined with abit of a wild child, I could see
that, yeah, a very differentTammy Sussman could emerge from
(15:29):
the bottle.
That makes a lot of sense.
It's not that shameful.
I don't think no.
I think you're okay.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
What became of Talia?
She became a bit emo in highschool, but then she came good.
Now she runs a successful realestate company I'm really
emphasising that for hersponsorship and we're still in
touch.
We have a laugh.
She claims she doesn't remembera lot of the stuff that we did.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Of course she doesn't .
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I'm like don't pretend to be too cool for
school, literally.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You do remember.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, she's got an image to maintain.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
A very glamorous image.
Today's episode is brought toyou by Talia Levy Realty, where
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As a top-tier boutique propertyservices agency, talia Levy
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(16:27):
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We'll leave a link in the shownotes.
(16:48):
What's your most shameful highschool memory?
God?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I had so many.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
What about did you ever wee or poo your pants?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
No, of course I didn't In high school.
I didn't even do it in primaryschool.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I didn't in primary school either.
Did you ever vandalise?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Did I ever vandalise anything?
Not really.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Did you ever steal someone's lunch?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Not really, did you ever steal someone's lunch?
No, I wasn't someone that wouldsteal things, that much I can
tell you.
Any shame around an outfit or ahaircut.
So yeah, like I recently saw myformal photo, not that long ago
, my very good high schoolfriend reposted it on Facebook
(17:38):
and, my God, like what is itwith suits of that era?
Like they were just so badlycut and tailored.
I guess it's a rite of passageto have really bad hair and
really no sense of fashion whenyou're in your last few years of
school.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
No, I can't relate.
I was a style icon.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Okay, you've dropped a few photos over there.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Not of my late high school, when I was peaking at 17
.
What you just said about badlycut or styled suits they're
coming back in.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay, like in a kind of a normie way.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Not in a normie way.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Not in a normie way, actually in an ironic, like the
cool kids are wearing them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah yeah.
I would definitely wasn't doingit ironically.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Do you feel ashamed about the fact that you haven't
come to this recording preparedwith a high school memory?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I didn't know we needed a high school memory.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Okay, you tell me yours, and then I'll see if I
can come up with another one.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I have an example of when I tried to shame Mariah
College for imposing a strictrule for girls to only wear
light-coloured bras underneaththeir white blouses.
I thought it was unacceptable.
(18:58):
I was a young, blossomingfeminist and in the thick of
summer it was really hot and Ifound wearing bras agitating.
So I thought, you know what?
I'm going to take a leaf out ofthe book created by the sisters
before me.
I'm going to take off that bra,I'm going to free the nip.
Before that expression had evenbeen invented.
(19:21):
And a friend and myself we saidwe are going to take off our
bras and we are not going towear them in protest.
And that's what we did.
And no one noticed, no one gavea gave a shit.
So, um, yeah, after a bit ofchafing, I thought this isn't
what I thought it would be.
And on when that cropped up, so, um yeah, attempt at shaming
(19:46):
the school for arbitrary rules.
Yeah, failed.
Yeah, were you ever rejected byany girls at school in high
school?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Not really at school.
I did have a female friend thatvery kindly became my wing
woman on one occasion when Itold her that I had a crush on
the girl that worked at the newsagency that I used to frequent,
on the girl that worked at thenews agency that I used to
frequent.
It's a news agency and sort ofbookstore and you know I would
(20:19):
go there once or twice a week.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Do we need to explain what a news agency is for our
Gen Z?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Most people know what a news agency is a place where
you would buy magazines.
I know it's not veryfashionable now, but at the time
there were a few periodicalsand magazines that I liked to
purchase.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
And the big sheets of cardboard for a project.
If you didn't live close to anoffice work, you'd have to go to
the local newsagent.
Yeah, they still exist.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I know there's not many of them, but they do still
exist and I liked going to thisone and I also liked the girl
that worked there, had a bit ofa crush on her.
And so, my friend, she said youshould ask her out.
And I was very, very shy andnot particularly experienced or
comfortable in doing that andshe said, look, if you can't do
it, I'll do it for you.
So she-.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Good on her.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So she did.
She went up to the counter Iwasn't within shot because, like
I couldn't handle the pressureof this I went away and she
explained who I was.
And the girl did know who I wasand she said look, would you
consider going out with him on adate?
And it was not positively met.
(21:27):
I can't quite remember whetherit was because she had a
boyfriend already or she wasn'tinterested, or it's just weird
because I'm in the middle ofserving people at this busy news
agency.
But anyway, it was swiftlyknocked back and then so my
friend returned back to me andsaid look, sorry, it's not going
to happen, and I couldn't go tothe news agency ever again
(21:50):
because I was so, so ashamed bymy rejection.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I got over it eventually the shame of
rejection stings and the shameof not having a school science
poster ready because youcouldn't go into the news agency
to buy that big sheet ofcardboard that you could only
get at the news agency.
That would have brought you alot of shame too.
It did, it did.
And was the teacherunderstanding?
Or did she chuck a Miss?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Stamos, that would have brought you a lot of shame
too.
It did, it did.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is and was the teacher understanding, or did
she chuck her, miss Stamos, andtake you outside?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Look, teaching had come a long way by the early
2000s and the teachers I had atthe end of my school just to
bring this back full circle werelovely and very understanding
and totally embraced myparticularities and by the end
of school there was no shamingfrom the teachers and you're
still in touch with your Hebrewteacher.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I'm still in touch with my Hebrew teacher, though I
didn't take Hebrew in year 12.
She was my Hebrew teacher inyear seven and eight.
Gil, who was our pronunciationpatrol in season one, continues
to be yeah, no, I still yeah, Isee my high school teachers
around.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Of course you do See you, since I've heard you say
that Some of them.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, some of them are listening to the show.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right now.
Some of them are giving usfive-star reviews as we speak.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That would make me very happy.
Tammy, we've got to go.
We've got to wrap this up.
We do.
We're going to be back againnext week for the return of A
Shame to Admit in its fullregular version.
We've got lots coming up forseason three, plenty of
interesting conversations, so Ican't wait to return back to our
(23:38):
normal programming with you.
Good luck with your little oneand with their transition to
school.
Do you call it prep or kindy inNew South Wales?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Kindy, kindy.
What do you call it inMelbourne?
Prep, you call it prep whichmakes more sense.
Good luck with you and goodluck with any of our listeners
who have kids starting school.
And if you don't have kidsstarting school but you still
wake up at 4.30 in the morningwith a memory, I'd love to hear
about it.
Please get in touch, take careof yourselves and we'll see you
(24:14):
soon.
You've been listening to SummerShames, the Schvitzisch Fester
podcast of A Shame to Admit.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about Kosses in Ladino?
Or Dig Dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle.
Or Zug Zug.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Okay, thank you.
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