January 20, 2025 • 26 mins
Tami and Dash make the most of their summer break from regular programming to evaluate each other: the good, the bad, the shameful. Will Tami make it back for season 3? What's really been bugging Tami about working with Dash? You'll find out.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
So Dash, as the person in thispodcast duo who actually has
like a proper job in aninstitution with an HR
(01:01):
department.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm not sure I'd call the Jewish Independent an
institution.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So what is it?
A company, a organisation, apress?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, we've actually just this week been granted
charity status, so we're acharity.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Is that why you've employed me?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So is there an HR department?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I'm the HR department .
Okay, tammy, we're coming up tonearly 12 months of your
engagement with the JewishIndependent and I think it's
high time that we review the fit.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So has the past nine months been like a probation
period.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Didn't you read that in the contract, in the fine
print?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'm not very good at reading fine print, evidently.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, we always needed to have, you know, a
panic button within reach orbreaks that we could apply.
So this is the mechanism we'vegot.
We've got your nine monthlyevaluation to whip through.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
You would be surprised by how many people
have said to me over the yearsin different contexts that I
need a panic button nearby.
Some breaks, okay.
I am both offended by thosecomments and also like
completely understand.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You understand?
Hey, to be fair, it'sopportunity for you to evaluate
me and let me know about the fit.
It goes both ways.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, that's true.
So Dash and I have both beengiven a template, a co-worker
evaluation form, and we'vecompleted them in our own time,
and now we're going to sharewhat we've written.
The instructions of theevaluation criteria were to rate
the co-workers' performance ineach area using the scale below
(02:50):
and provide examples or commentswhere applicable.
Could you tell our listenerswhat the rating scale was?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It was a scale of one , two, three.
So one needs improvement, twomeets expectations, three
exceeds expectations.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So for team collaboration, dash meaning, do
you work well with team membersthat's me and do you contribute
ideas?
I gave you a three.
You exceeded my expectations.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Okay, I gave you a three as well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Fantastic, we're off to a great start.
Any comments?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Not yet.
I've got comments to come.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
We're working up to that.
Yeah, communication skills Doesmy coworker, dash Lawrence,
clearly and effectivelycommunicate in meetings?
I said two, you meetexpectations and you communicate
clearly and effectively.
In between mouthfuls of proteinballs, I said sometimes the
shaking of your protein shakesmuffles your sound a bit.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I gave you three and my comment was just simply loves
a chat.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Loves a bit of chit-chat.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay.
Good banterability can you berelied upon to meet deadlines?
I gave you a two.
You meet expectations.
I couldn't give you a threebecause your work is rarely
submitted early but it's alwayson time.
So if you were to always beatyour deadline I would have given
you a three, can't complain.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think that's very generous of you, given that I'm
usually late for our recordings.
I gave you three out of threefor dependability and I said
Tammy is always there before me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Both physically, emotionally, there before you.
Intellectually I'm a few stepsbehind, but thank you, that was
a very generous score.
Okay, problem solving Does myco-worker offer creative
solutions to team challenges?
I gave you one needsimprovement for problem solving.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
The example that I gave you.
One needs improvement forproblem solving.
Okay, the example that I gave.
Once you left your podcastequipment on the other side of
Melbourne and you were going tobe late for an interview and you
said don't worry, tammy, I'llhop on my bicycle and be there
in 15 minutes.
And I said Dash, it kind ofsounds like an Uber kind of
(05:25):
emergency situation to me.
And you said yeah, I thinkyou're right.
So I think your problem solvingskills could be a little bit
better, and I think it mostlycomes down to the way that you
tend to think that most problemscan be solved with riding a
bicycle somewhere.
Do you think that's fair?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Absolutely.
Look, I probably have someunorthodox methods.
I think I'm generally prettylogical and not a bad problem
solver, but there are peoplethat would differ to that
account.
Look, I gave you three.
You're coming up chumps withme's not a competition.
Dash comes up with greatsolutions to problems or any
(06:08):
hurdles she faces such as ohlook, if we've got a guest
that's pulled out or we've gotto suddenly change the focus of
a particular episode, you'realways ready to come up with a
solution, and you're always kindof ready to solve the problem
(06:29):
even before it's become verypressing.
So thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He's giving me a thumbs up and regretting his
responses.
Okay, With regards to respectand professionalism.
I rated you three.
You exceed expectations.
Dash, you are a mensch.
Oh, thank you no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That makes me feel really special today.
I need it.
I give you a two Veryrespectful, very respectful.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
However, Tammy could use a refresh of the wardrobe
with regard to attire, Firstlytell me what's wrong with my
attire?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Nothing's wrong with your attire.
I didn't say anything was wrongwith your attire.
I just said that that's an areaof potential improvement.
It's a growth area.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, so you think I could be a bit more business
casual?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Growth mindset.
Tammy, Where's your growthmindset?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
My growth mindset?
No, but I just don't understandit, Like because it's with
regards to professionalism.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Tammy.
We went to a meeting with a bigdog last week in Sydney and you
turned up with like it wasfunny, it was quirky, it was
very Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I was wearing a vintage t-shirt from a bagel
shop in Chicago that my deadstep-grandfather left me.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yep, yep, yep, a baseball cap and you weren't
wearing a bra.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That was an accident.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, look, when you've got meetings with big
dogs in the high end of town inSydney, you come with like
shoulder pads.
You know I'm thinking pixieskates from the 1980s.
You know, show a bit ofprofessionalism, get some bling
jewellery out, okay, you know.
Clean lines, okay, sharp.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know what Think, boss, that is totally fair.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Don't think bottom of the vintage barrel, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I saw this meme yesterday and it was basically
this woman who had screenshot aemail exchange between her and
her superior at work and shesaid to her superior I have to
cancel this meeting.
I'm really sorry for my lack ofprofessionalism in doing so.
And her superior wrote back noneed to apologize,
(09:01):
professionalism was invented bythe patriarchy ah, yes, yeah, so
true, so true so true, but alsowear a bra, especially when the
t-shirt's beige.
Okay, contribution to team goals.
Do you, dash Lawrence, helpthis duo achieve team targets
(09:23):
and offer support?
I rated you a three.
You exceed my expectations,except that time you told me
that I should consider becominga drama teacher.
Because, dash, how the hell arewe going to be the next Kyle
and Jackie-O if I have afull-time, soul-destroying job
elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I didn't tell you you should become a drama teacher.
It was a question have you everconsidered drama teaching,
which I get granted, is the sortof thing that your concerned
mother or grandmother orrelative asks.
It's not something that yourpartner in podcasting crime
should be asking.
(10:02):
So I'm sorry, just looking outfor you.
It came from a good place.
It came from a good place.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I did ask you how you think I could make some extra
money on the side.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
You know when you're throwing out OnlyFans and all
sorts of other left of fieldoptions.
I just felt like let's get backto some fundamentals here.
You're a great communicator.
You're an excellent dramatist.
You are able to inject a lot ofenergy into a room.
You'd make a great traumateacher.
(10:35):
Have you ever considered it?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What I was hoping you'd say is Tammy, all those
skills would be really great asa head of podcasts at the Jewish
Independent and here's thisrole that we've all just created
for you Didn't work out thatway.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Head of podcasts.
Okay, I mean, you didn't evenask me.
I gave you a three, by the way,and you know the comments are
relevant, but you know it wasdefinitely pumping you up,
that's for sure.
Thanks, Just know that youdefinitely got a higher score
than I got.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's not a competition, what's?
With this patriarchal lens of acompetition.
I'd like to know what you saidabout me and how I contribute to
team goals.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Just said doing a great job for the team.
That's all.
That's all I'm going to say.
Not really worth going into thedetails.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I reckon you said more, but now you're ashamed to
share it.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It's okay, let's move on to the open-ended questions.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You didn't write anything at all, did you no?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I did, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Open-ended questions.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
You didn't write anything at all, did you?
No, I did.
I did Open-ended questions.
Why don't you go first thistime?
What are this co-worker'sgreatest strengths?
Tammy is a fun co-worker whohas many strengths that cannot
be simply distilled into asingle strength.
Tammy is showing great progresstowards her goals as a
podcaster at TJI and generalcontent creator, and I look
(12:02):
forward to working with TammySussman in 2025.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've been watching you.
You're not reading off a sheetof paper, you just made that up
on the spot.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Not bad huh.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You have not done your homework, I have.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I did my homework early this morning in between
very important meetings.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm taking a point off for dependability.
Can you be relied upon to meetdeadlines?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Of course I can.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You were a two and now you're a one.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Not meeting expectations.
Okay, this is what I wrote foryou Shifty expectations.
Dash what I wrote for youShifty expectations.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Dash.
These are your greateststrengths.
I'm going to provide examplesof how you have positively
impacted the team.
You're inquisitive, you'reenthusiastic, you're articulate,
you're patient, you're highlyintelligent and you remind me to
(12:58):
ask the smart questions.
You're a person of integrity,and we mustn't forget your cute
face.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Tammy, now I feel terrible that I didn't put up a
proper answer to this.
Put more effort into it?
Yeah, so you should.
I didn't put more effort.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Okay, and cute face.
My mother and Elise Hurstwanted me to make sure that that
was in there.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thank you, louise, and thank you Elise.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's nice to still be approaching 40, just around the
corner, and be told that I havea cute face.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
There you go, you're approaching 40.
I did catch my mother lookingat pictures of you on LinkedIn
yesterday and I said, mum, whatare you doing?
And she said, how old's Dash.
And I said, mum, this is yourworkplace.
Shouldn't you be doing someinvoicing, paying some wages?
Louise and I looked over and mydad's sitting they work
together and my dad's at hiscomputer and I'm like Dad, are
(13:55):
you aware of this?
And he just shrugs.
So you'll be 40 on the 19th ofApril.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Oh God, yes, Thank you for the reminder.
I'll also be in London for theLondon Marathon and bringing had
to slip it in, had to slip itin, and we'll have a special
Ashamed to Admit episode comingout at that time.
Just a bit of dropping somebreadcrumbs for season three.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Are you going to London alone or with the family?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I'm going alone.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So you'll be celebrating your 40th on your
own.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
No, that's not true.
I'm actually going the morningafter my 40th.
Oh okay, the 20th.
Yeah, I just don't want to becontacted over that period.
In general, please Okay, unlessyou're sending good wishes to
me or donating, because I'mraising money for charity while
I'm over it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
More information to come on when we return for
season three.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, well, I'm also raising money.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Oh yeah, what for?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
For a full-time role at the Jewish Independent.
Okay, so are there any areaswhere this coworker could
improve?
Have you written anything forme, or do you want me to just
say?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
yours, I think I put technical issues from time to
time.
That's fair, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Hey, you're pretty good for the most part.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, I don't think those technical issues were my
fault, to be honest.
But you're right, there aresome areas where I could improve
.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
They were the microphone's fault for standing
in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's true, that one was my fault.
Yeah, yeah, okay For you.
I wrote the areas where youcould improve punctuality
answering my phone calls whenyou're on the toilet, because I
know you're screening them.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I generally answer your phone calls.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
You do, except there's like a certain time of
day where you don't answer them,and I think that must be.
He must be pretty regular, andthat's when he's doing his poop
and scroll and doesn't want tobe bothered by me.
And when you call me and I'm onthe toilet, I answer the phone.
So I just think it's fair thatit's reciprocated.
Another area where you couldimprove is getting Jess Fox on
the show, because you're the onewith her email address and you
(16:11):
were the one who used tocorrespond with her in 2016.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It would be great to get either of the Fox sisters on
.
A shame to admit, Naomi didalso win gold.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That's true, but she wasn't in the book that you
edited, People of the Boot.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
The Triumphs and Tragedy of Australian Jews in
Sport, that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But Jess was.
There was a whole chapterwritten about her.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's right.
Yesitten by Carly Adno.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And so you were in touch with Jess around this time
.
Was it 2016?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
2018,.
I think Circa 2017,.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You were in touch with Jess Fox.
You had her email address.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You had yes, tammy, yes, you've made your point.
Okay, go on.
Okay, yes, tammy, yes, you'vemade your point.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Go on.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Are there areas you could improve?
Laughing more audibly at myjokes?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I've come some way.
I've definitely been a bit moregenerous in the dolloping of
laughs in season two.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You've improved.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I crack a wry smile pretty frequently and that wry
smile breaks out into theoccasional Wry smile does not
translate well in an audioformat.
That's true.
I just don't like cannedlaughter, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Is that what you're saying?
That you have to fake it?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Do you fake laugh sometimes when I say something
that you don't actually findthat funny?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Never, I don't know how to fake laugh.
Okay, can you please describe aspecific instance where I
displayed exceptional teamwork?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
A specific instance.
Well, look, you've been, you'vebeen, you're very good at the
start with the organisation ofour show materials.
You got the Google Drive up,you created the folders, you
created the scripts, led thecharge on that front and
(18:10):
continue to, to be honest.
So that's a specificdemonstration of exceptional
teamwork.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You know there's no I in teamwork.
It's all about what the teamneeds, and what the team needs
is a good Google Drive folderstructure, and that you have
created, tammy Swissman.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Note to any potential employers out there Tammy's
excellent on the Google Drivesand will frequently remind me of
a Monday morning to put theshow up, or of a Thursday
afternoon to upload my audio.
Those are all specific examplesof excellent teamwork.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Thank you, and I noticed that you said to all
future employers of Tammy isthat like?
You trying to get moving.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
This is my subtle way of getting to the crunch of the
evaluation.
Yeah, no, we're keeping you.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So I said that you demonstrate exceptional teamwork
when you upload the podcast toall the podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And when you defend me when listeners send in
complaints, I think that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Ooh, that's nice.
I didn't realise.
Am I a bit?
Do I go into like sort of papabear mode a bit?
Do you think no, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
No, you're actually very diplomatic.
You're like, I hear thoseconcerns.
I also shared some of thoseconcerns and here at the Jewish
Independent we try to, and Iknow that what you'd really love
to say is yeah, that interviewwith Alex Rivchin was a bit
superficial and yeah, tammycould have really asked some
(19:56):
hard hitting questions, but shereally just wanted to know how
Vicky Rivchen feels about womenand gay men objectifying her
husband.
So I'm sorry that I didn'tsteer that interview in the
right direction.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I'll always be there to back you up.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
That's good to know.
How do I handle feedback orconflict?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I put here.
Very well, I don't think we'vehad, I don't know.
Have we had a fight?
Have we had a conflict?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No, how does Dr Dashiell Lawrence handle
feedback or conflict?
I said he turns into a whinybrat and I gave the Bumba snack
example when I just suggestedwhen, dash, you might recall.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
You did come down on me quite harshly.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Firstly, let me describe this incident because
it never made it to a podcast.
Back in November the JewishIndependent brought out a film
Pitta with Vegemite, for theJewish International Film
Festival and Dash was telling mehow excited he was that the
team at the Jewish Independenthad created a little snack pack
for viewers of the film toreceive at the Ritz in Randwick.
(21:07):
And he said included in thissnack pack are Bumba snacks.
And I said to Dash Dash, youcan't give people Bumba snacks
because it contains peanuts andpeople will go into anaphylactic
shock.
And instead of saying, oh,that's a really good point,
tammy Dash says well, I wasn'tthe one who made the snack pack.
(21:31):
It wasn't me, sharon.
Sharon made the snack pack.
Why are you accusing me oftrying to murder all the Jews of
Sydney and Melbourne?
I've rewatched the footage ofthat and I actually wasn't
coming down hard on you at all.
I think I was communicatingeffectively.
I think you'd had a bad day.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Your impersonation of me is not your best, I have to
say it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you rate my impersonation?
One Needs improvement.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, no, no.
No, you're a pretty goodimpersonator when it comes to
certain characters, but I didn'tlike that one of them, not
really.
Yeah, I take that point.
That's fair enough.
In the end we got busily.
So I did contact Sharon and sayI think we need to get busily.
She sorted it out.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Not after a small panic attack.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Hey, at least it wasn't an anaphylactic attack.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Could have been worse .
Okay.
Do I feel that my coworker,dash Lawrence positively
influences team morale and Isaid yes, because sometimes you
send me texts that read yourinterview with insert name was
terrific, well done.
I really like it when I getthose texts from you.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Nice.
It's nice to have your bellyscratched once in a while or get
a special little treat orsomething.
This is definitely one of yourstrengths, Tammy.
You definitely keep morale high, except for those days when you
don't, and that's fine.
You don't always have to beupbeat and fun, but nine times
(23:07):
out of 10 you are.
So, yeah, you're great for thelaughs.
That's what I wrote here.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Thank you.
I like to think that one of mygreatest strengths is that, even
when I'm having a really badday, I still like to lift other
people.
You know, without toxicpositivity, like I'll criticize
all your life choices, but thenI'll say something funny and
that'll make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, it is a strategy for dealing with all
the things that life throws atyou, and it's probably a
survival strategy that hasserved you and others in your
family well, I reckon, becausethese things usually go from
generation to generation.
Right?
Was your hot ancestor reallyinto making light of bad
situations when he was locked upin jail?
(23:54):
What's his name?
I've forgotten his nameLakofsky Edward.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Every time you say hot ancestor, the ghost of
Edward Lukofsky justmaterializes and freaks the dog
out.
I don't know if Hot AncestorEdward Lukofsky had that skill,
I'd imagine that he did.
I'd like to read the summary.
I'm your evaluator, dash, andhere are your final comments.
(24:19):
You bring journalisticintegrity, sensitivity and
empathy to the Ashamed to Admitteam.
You excel in collaboration,professionalism and you
demonstrate intelligence and awillingness to support others,
particularly through thoughtfulencouragement and practical
contributions like managingpodcast uploads.
However, there is room forgrowth in areas such as
(24:44):
punctuality and addressing vitalconcerns like laughing more
audibly at jokes.
The end.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Very nice, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You didn't write a summary.
I know it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Well, tammy, once again I am blown away by your
generosity and your kind wordsand the sincerity with which
you've taken this exercise.
You have absolutely shown me upand I am more than a bit
ashamed that I haven't gone tothe lengths, that you have to
really think about this.
All I have for you, tammy, is asimple keep up the good work,
(25:24):
and I've done the evaluation andI can tell you now you are
exceeding expectations.
I don't have a stamp here on mydesk, but if I did, I'd pull
out this report now, stamp it,and that stamp would read passed
.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Does that mean I'm coming back for season three?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
It means you're coming back for 2025.
Woo mean I'm coming back forseason three.
It means you're coming back for2025.
Woo, she's coming back forseason three.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
You've been listening to Summer Shames, the
Schvitzisch Fester podcast of ashame to admit.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, Dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about Kosses in Ladino?
Or Dig Dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle, or zug, zug.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay.
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
So Dash, as the person in thispodcast duo who actually has
like a proper job in aninstitution with an HR
(01:01):
department.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm not sure I'd call the Jewish Independent an
institution.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So what is it?
A company, a organisation, apress?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, we've actually just this week been granted
charity status, so we're acharity.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Is that why you've employed me?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So is there an HR department?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I'm the HR department .
Okay, tammy, we're coming up tonearly 12 months of your
engagement with the JewishIndependent and I think it's
high time that we review the fit.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So has the past nine months been like a probation
period.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Didn't you read that in the contract, in the fine
print?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'm not very good at reading fine print, evidently.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, we always needed to have, you know, a
panic button within reach orbreaks that we could apply.
So this is the mechanism we'vegot.
We've got your nine monthlyevaluation to whip through.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
You would be surprised by how many people
have said to me over the yearsin different contexts that I
need a panic button nearby.
Some breaks, okay.
I am both offended by thosecomments and also like
completely understand.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You understand?
Hey, to be fair, it'sopportunity for you to evaluate
me and let me know about the fit.
It goes both ways.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, that's true.
So Dash and I have both beengiven a template, a co-worker
evaluation form, and we'vecompleted them in our own time,
and now we're going to sharewhat we've written.
The instructions of theevaluation criteria were to rate
the co-workers' performance ineach area using the scale below
(02:50):
and provide examples or commentswhere applicable.
Could you tell our listenerswhat the rating scale was?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It was a scale of one , two, three.
So one needs improvement, twomeets expectations, three
exceeds expectations.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So for team collaboration, dash meaning, do
you work well with team membersthat's me and do you contribute
ideas?
I gave you a three.
You exceeded my expectations.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Okay, I gave you a three as well.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Fantastic, we're off to a great start.
Any comments?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Not yet.
I've got comments to come.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
We're working up to that.
Yeah, communication skills Doesmy coworker, dash Lawrence,
clearly and effectivelycommunicate in meetings?
I said two, you meetexpectations and you communicate
clearly and effectively.
In between mouthfuls of proteinballs, I said sometimes the
shaking of your protein shakesmuffles your sound a bit.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I gave you three and my comment was just simply loves
a chat.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Loves a bit of chit-chat.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay.
Good banterability can you berelied upon to meet deadlines?
I gave you a two.
You meet expectations.
I couldn't give you a threebecause your work is rarely
submitted early but it's alwayson time.
So if you were to always beatyour deadline I would have given
you a three, can't complain.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think that's very generous of you, given that I'm
usually late for our recordings.
I gave you three out of threefor dependability and I said
Tammy is always there before me.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Both physically, emotionally, there before you.
Intellectually I'm a few stepsbehind, but thank you, that was
a very generous score.
Okay, problem solving Does myco-worker offer creative
solutions to team challenges?
I gave you one needsimprovement for problem solving.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
The example that I gave you.
One needs improvement forproblem solving.
Okay, the example that I gave.
Once you left your podcastequipment on the other side of
Melbourne and you were going tobe late for an interview and you
said don't worry, tammy, I'llhop on my bicycle and be there
in 15 minutes.
And I said Dash, it kind ofsounds like an Uber kind of
(05:25):
emergency situation to me.
And you said yeah, I thinkyou're right.
So I think your problem solvingskills could be a little bit
better, and I think it mostlycomes down to the way that you
tend to think that most problemscan be solved with riding a
bicycle somewhere.
Do you think that's fair?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Absolutely.
Look, I probably have someunorthodox methods.
I think I'm generally prettylogical and not a bad problem
solver, but there are peoplethat would differ to that
account.
Look, I gave you three.
You're coming up chumps withme's not a competition.
Dash comes up with greatsolutions to problems or any
(06:08):
hurdles she faces such as ohlook, if we've got a guest
that's pulled out or we've gotto suddenly change the focus of
a particular episode, you'realways ready to come up with a
solution, and you're always kindof ready to solve the problem
(06:29):
even before it's become verypressing.
So thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He's giving me a thumbs up and regretting his
responses.
Okay, With regards to respectand professionalism.
I rated you three.
You exceed expectations.
Dash, you are a mensch.
Oh, thank you no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
That makes me feel really special today.
I need it.
I give you a two Veryrespectful, very respectful.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
However, Tammy could use a refresh of the wardrobe
with regard to attire, Firstlytell me what's wrong with my
attire?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Nothing's wrong with your attire.
I didn't say anything was wrongwith your attire.
I just said that that's an areaof potential improvement.
It's a growth area.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, so you think I could be a bit more business
casual?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Growth mindset.
Tammy, Where's your growthmindset?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
My growth mindset?
No, but I just don't understandit, Like because it's with
regards to professionalism.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Tammy.
We went to a meeting with a bigdog last week in Sydney and you
turned up with like it wasfunny, it was quirky, it was
very Tammy Sussman.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I was wearing a vintage t-shirt from a bagel
shop in Chicago that my deadstep-grandfather left me.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yep, yep, yep, a baseball cap and you weren't
wearing a bra.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That was an accident.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, look, when you've got meetings with big
dogs in the high end of town inSydney, you come with like
shoulder pads.
You know I'm thinking pixieskates from the 1980s.
You know, show a bit ofprofessionalism, get some bling
jewellery out, okay, you know.
Clean lines, okay, sharp.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know what Think, boss, that is totally fair.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Don't think bottom of the vintage barrel, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I saw this meme yesterday and it was basically
this woman who had screenshot aemail exchange between her and
her superior at work and shesaid to her superior I have to
cancel this meeting.
I'm really sorry for my lack ofprofessionalism in doing so.
And her superior wrote back noneed to apologize,
(09:01):
professionalism was invented bythe patriarchy ah, yes, yeah, so
true, so true so true, but alsowear a bra, especially when the
t-shirt's beige.
Okay, contribution to team goals.
Do you, dash Lawrence, helpthis duo achieve team targets
(09:23):
and offer support?
I rated you a three.
You exceed my expectations,except that time you told me
that I should consider becominga drama teacher.
Because, dash, how the hell arewe going to be the next Kyle
and Jackie-O if I have afull-time, soul-destroying job
elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I didn't tell you you should become a drama teacher.
It was a question have you everconsidered drama teaching,
which I get granted, is the sortof thing that your concerned
mother or grandmother orrelative asks.
It's not something that yourpartner in podcasting crime
should be asking.
(10:02):
So I'm sorry, just looking outfor you.
It came from a good place.
It came from a good place.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I did ask you how you think I could make some extra
money on the side.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
You know when you're throwing out OnlyFans and all
sorts of other left of fieldoptions.
I just felt like let's get backto some fundamentals here.
You're a great communicator.
You're an excellent dramatist.
You are able to inject a lot ofenergy into a room.
You'd make a great traumateacher.
(10:35):
Have you ever considered it?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What I was hoping you'd say is Tammy, all those
skills would be really great asa head of podcasts at the Jewish
Independent and here's thisrole that we've all just created
for you Didn't work out thatway.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Head of podcasts.
Okay, I mean, you didn't evenask me.
I gave you a three, by the way,and you know the comments are
relevant, but you know it wasdefinitely pumping you up,
that's for sure.
Thanks, Just know that youdefinitely got a higher score
than I got.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's not a competition, what's?
With this patriarchal lens of acompetition.
I'd like to know what you saidabout me and how I contribute to
team goals.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Just said doing a great job for the team.
That's all.
That's all I'm going to say.
Not really worth going into thedetails.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I reckon you said more, but now you're ashamed to
share it.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
It's okay, let's move on to the open-ended questions.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
You didn't write anything at all, did you no?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I did, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Open-ended questions.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
You didn't write anything at all, did you?
No, I did.
I did Open-ended questions.
Why don't you go first thistime?
What are this co-worker'sgreatest strengths?
Tammy is a fun co-worker whohas many strengths that cannot
be simply distilled into asingle strength.
Tammy is showing great progresstowards her goals as a
podcaster at TJI and generalcontent creator, and I look
(12:02):
forward to working with TammySussman in 2025.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I've been watching you.
You're not reading off a sheetof paper, you just made that up
on the spot.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Not bad huh.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You have not done your homework, I have.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I did my homework early this morning in between
very important meetings.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm taking a point off for dependability.
Can you be relied upon to meetdeadlines?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Of course I can.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You were a two and now you're a one.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Not meeting expectations.
Okay, this is what I wrote foryou Shifty expectations.
Dash what I wrote for youShifty expectations.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Dash.
These are your greateststrengths.
I'm going to provide examplesof how you have positively
impacted the team.
You're inquisitive, you'reenthusiastic, you're articulate,
you're patient, you're highlyintelligent and you remind me to
(12:58):
ask the smart questions.
You're a person of integrity,and we mustn't forget your cute
face.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Tammy, now I feel terrible that I didn't put up a
proper answer to this.
Put more effort into it?
Yeah, so you should.
I didn't put more effort.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Okay, and cute face.
My mother and Elise Hurstwanted me to make sure that that
was in there.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thank you, louise, and thank you Elise.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's nice to still be approaching 40, just around the
corner, and be told that I havea cute face.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
There you go, you're approaching 40.
I did catch my mother lookingat pictures of you on LinkedIn
yesterday and I said, mum, whatare you doing?
And she said, how old's Dash.
And I said, mum, this is yourworkplace.
Shouldn't you be doing someinvoicing, paying some wages?
Louise and I looked over and mydad's sitting they work
together and my dad's at hiscomputer and I'm like Dad, are
(13:55):
you aware of this?
And he just shrugs.
So you'll be 40 on the 19th ofApril.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Oh God, yes, Thank you for the reminder.
I'll also be in London for theLondon Marathon and bringing had
to slip it in, had to slip itin, and we'll have a special
Ashamed to Admit episode comingout at that time.
Just a bit of dropping somebreadcrumbs for season three.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Are you going to London alone or with the family?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I'm going alone.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
So you'll be celebrating your 40th on your
own.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
No, that's not true.
I'm actually going the morningafter my 40th.
Oh okay, the 20th.
Yeah, I just don't want to becontacted over that period.
In general, please Okay, unlessyou're sending good wishes to
me or donating, because I'mraising money for charity while
I'm over it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
More information to come on when we return for
season three.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, well, I'm also raising money.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Oh yeah, what for?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
For a full-time role at the Jewish Independent.
Okay, so are there any areaswhere this coworker could
improve?
Have you written anything forme, or do you want me to just
say?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
yours, I think I put technical issues from time to
time.
That's fair, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Hey, you're pretty good for the most part.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, I don't think those technical issues were my
fault, to be honest.
But you're right, there aresome areas where I could improve
.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
They were the microphone's fault for standing
in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
That's true, that one was my fault.
Yeah, yeah, okay For you.
I wrote the areas where youcould improve punctuality
answering my phone calls whenyou're on the toilet, because I
know you're screening them.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I generally answer your phone calls.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
You do, except there's like a certain time of
day where you don't answer them,and I think that must be.
He must be pretty regular, andthat's when he's doing his poop
and scroll and doesn't want tobe bothered by me.
And when you call me and I'm onthe toilet, I answer the phone.
So I just think it's fair thatit's reciprocated.
Another area where you couldimprove is getting Jess Fox on
the show, because you're the onewith her email address and you
(16:11):
were the one who used tocorrespond with her in 2016.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It would be great to get either of the Fox sisters on
.
A shame to admit, Naomi didalso win gold.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
That's true, but she wasn't in the book that you
edited, People of the Boot.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
The Triumphs and Tragedy of Australian Jews in
Sport, that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But Jess was.
There was a whole chapterwritten about her.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's right.
Yesitten by Carly Adno.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And so you were in touch with Jess around this time
.
Was it 2016?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
2018,.
I think Circa 2017,.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
You were in touch with Jess Fox.
You had her email address.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You had yes, tammy, yes, you've made your point.
Okay, go on.
Okay, yes, tammy, yes, you'vemade your point.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Go on.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Are there areas you could improve?
Laughing more audibly at myjokes?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I've come some way.
I've definitely been a bit moregenerous in the dolloping of
laughs in season two.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You've improved.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I crack a wry smile pretty frequently and that wry
smile breaks out into theoccasional Wry smile does not
translate well in an audioformat.
That's true.
I just don't like cannedlaughter, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Is that what you're saying?
That you have to fake it?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Do you fake laugh sometimes when I say something
that you don't actually findthat funny?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Never, I don't know how to fake laugh.
Okay, can you please describe aspecific instance where I
displayed exceptional teamwork?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
A specific instance.
Well, look, you've been, you'vebeen, you're very good at the
start with the organisation ofour show materials.
You got the Google Drive up,you created the folders, you
created the scripts, led thecharge on that front and
(18:10):
continue to, to be honest.
So that's a specificdemonstration of exceptional
teamwork.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
You know there's no I in teamwork.
It's all about what the teamneeds, and what the team needs
is a good Google Drive folderstructure, and that you have
created, tammy Swissman.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Note to any potential employers out there Tammy's
excellent on the Google Drivesand will frequently remind me of
a Monday morning to put theshow up, or of a Thursday
afternoon to upload my audio.
Those are all specific examplesof excellent teamwork.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Thank you, and I noticed that you said to all
future employers of Tammy isthat like?
You trying to get moving.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
This is my subtle way of getting to the crunch of the
evaluation.
Yeah, no, we're keeping you.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So I said that you demonstrate exceptional teamwork
when you upload the podcast toall the podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And when you defend me when listeners send in
complaints, I think that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Ooh, that's nice.
I didn't realise.
Am I a bit?
Do I go into like sort of papabear mode a bit?
Do you think no, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
No, you're actually very diplomatic.
You're like, I hear thoseconcerns.
I also shared some of thoseconcerns and here at the Jewish
Independent we try to, and Iknow that what you'd really love
to say is yeah, that interviewwith Alex Rivchin was a bit
superficial and yeah, tammycould have really asked some
(19:56):
hard hitting questions, but shereally just wanted to know how
Vicky Rivchen feels about womenand gay men objectifying her
husband.
So I'm sorry that I didn'tsteer that interview in the
right direction.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I'll always be there to back you up.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
That's good to know.
How do I handle feedback orconflict?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I put here.
Very well, I don't think we'vehad, I don't know.
Have we had a fight?
Have we had a conflict?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No, how does Dr Dashiell Lawrence handle
feedback or conflict?
I said he turns into a whinybrat and I gave the Bumba snack
example when I just suggestedwhen, dash, you might recall.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
You did come down on me quite harshly.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Firstly, let me describe this incident because
it never made it to a podcast.
Back in November the JewishIndependent brought out a film
Pitta with Vegemite, for theJewish International Film
Festival and Dash was telling mehow excited he was that the
team at the Jewish Independenthad created a little snack pack
for viewers of the film toreceive at the Ritz in Randwick.
(21:07):
And he said included in thissnack pack are Bumba snacks.
And I said to Dash Dash, youcan't give people Bumba snacks
because it contains peanuts andpeople will go into anaphylactic
shock.
And instead of saying, oh,that's a really good point,
tammy Dash says well, I wasn'tthe one who made the snack pack.
(21:31):
It wasn't me, sharon.
Sharon made the snack pack.
Why are you accusing me oftrying to murder all the Jews of
Sydney and Melbourne?
I've rewatched the footage ofthat and I actually wasn't
coming down hard on you at all.
I think I was communicatingeffectively.
I think you'd had a bad day.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Your impersonation of me is not your best, I have to
say it's true.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you rate my impersonation?
One Needs improvement.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, no, no.
No, you're a pretty goodimpersonator when it comes to
certain characters, but I didn'tlike that one of them, not
really.
Yeah, I take that point.
That's fair enough.
In the end we got busily.
So I did contact Sharon and sayI think we need to get busily.
She sorted it out.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Not after a small panic attack.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Hey, at least it wasn't an anaphylactic attack.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Could have been worse .
Okay.
Do I feel that my coworker,dash Lawrence positively
influences team morale and Isaid yes, because sometimes you
send me texts that read yourinterview with insert name was
terrific, well done.
I really like it when I getthose texts from you.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Nice.
It's nice to have your bellyscratched once in a while or get
a special little treat orsomething.
This is definitely one of yourstrengths, Tammy.
You definitely keep morale high, except for those days when you
don't, and that's fine.
You don't always have to beupbeat and fun, but nine times
(23:07):
out of 10 you are.
So, yeah, you're great for thelaughs.
That's what I wrote here.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Thank you.
I like to think that one of mygreatest strengths is that, even
when I'm having a really badday, I still like to lift other
people.
You know, without toxicpositivity, like I'll criticize
all your life choices, but thenI'll say something funny and
that'll make you feel better.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, it is a strategy for dealing with all
the things that life throws atyou, and it's probably a
survival strategy that hasserved you and others in your
family well, I reckon, becausethese things usually go from
generation to generation.
Right?
Was your hot ancestor reallyinto making light of bad
situations when he was locked upin jail?
(23:54):
What's his name?
I've forgotten his nameLakofsky Edward.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Every time you say hot ancestor, the ghost of
Edward Lukofsky justmaterializes and freaks the dog
out.
I don't know if Hot AncestorEdward Lukofsky had that skill,
I'd imagine that he did.
I'd like to read the summary.
I'm your evaluator, dash, andhere are your final comments.
(24:19):
You bring journalisticintegrity, sensitivity and
empathy to the Ashamed to Admitteam.
You excel in collaboration,professionalism and you
demonstrate intelligence and awillingness to support others,
particularly through thoughtfulencouragement and practical
contributions like managingpodcast uploads.
However, there is room forgrowth in areas such as
(24:44):
punctuality and addressing vitalconcerns like laughing more
audibly at jokes.
The end.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Very nice, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You didn't write a summary.
I know it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Well, tammy, once again I am blown away by your
generosity and your kind wordsand the sincerity with which
you've taken this exercise.
You have absolutely shown me upand I am more than a bit
ashamed that I haven't gone tothe lengths, that you have to
really think about this.
All I have for you, tammy, is asimple keep up the good work,
(25:24):
and I've done the evaluation andI can tell you now you are
exceeding expectations.
I don't have a stamp here on mydesk, but if I did, I'd pull
out this report now, stamp it,and that stamp would read passed
.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Does that mean I'm coming back for season three?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
It means you're coming back for 2025.
Woo mean I'm coming back forseason three.
It means you're coming back for2025.
Woo, she's coming back forseason three.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
You've been listening to Summer Shames, the
Schvitzisch Fester podcast of ashame to admit.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, Dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about Kosses in Ladino?
Or Dig Dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle, or zug, zug.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay.
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