December 30, 2024 • 22 mins
From kitsch Irish Folk to attending a Hanson concert as a fully grown adult, this second instalment of Summer Shames is the perfect antidote to peacocking your 2024 Spotify Wrapped.
If you like this episode, you might like:
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/comfort-using-music-to-heal-post-october-7
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/the-best-jewish-cultural-moments-of-2024
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/listen-to-this-australian-jewish-musicians-you-should-know
Email your feedback and voice memos here: ashamed@thejewishindependent.com.au
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey Tammy.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Dashiell.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We are approaching the time of year when Spotify
release their annual SpotifyWrap, which, for those of you
who don't know, it's whereSpotify, the music playing
library platform, compiles alist of all of your most played
and engaged with songs for theyear.
Some people get very excitedabout it, you know.
They share it on social media.
(01:25):
They want to tell their friendshey, look at all the cool new
songs I've been listening to.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
They want to peacock yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, Like it's a way , I guess, of showing your taste
.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
They want to be smug.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I have never shared my Spotify rap with my
friends, with anyone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Why not.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I don't have, so my Spotify is on private.
I don't actually like people toknow what songs I'm listening
to, and the whole notion oftelling people what you listen
to is and kind of sharing thatlike a social media thing is
really antithetical, is reallyodd to me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Same.
It's so exposing.
In fact, you just freaked meout and now I'm thinking how do
I make sure that my Spotify whatdo you mean it can be public?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you're like people
can find you on Spotify andfollow you and then see what
songs you've been playing.
I want to see if I can find youon here.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh no, Didn't you know this, no, I told you I'm
like the dumbest smart personyou know.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So, like a few years ago, a friend of mine was like
this is before.
I sort of put it on private.
He was like mate, what's withall that crap?
Irish folk music you listen toOkay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What is with?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
all the crap Irish folk music that you listen to.
Now we're getting somewhere.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, you know, like with music, there is a song for
every mood, for every day, forevery week.
Well, I don't always just wantto listen to the same shit,
right?
Sometimes I'm feeling nostalgicand I feel like I want a kind
of like a warm, comfortingblanket, and the music of my
(03:16):
childhood sometimes is what Ineed, and my parents were both
quite eclectic array of musicand I heard all kinds of sounds
growing up and mum had quite ayeah, she had like a kind of an
Irish folk thing going on therefor a while and yeah, it's stuck
(03:41):
with me.
I mean, it's not on highrotation, it wouldn't appear on
my Spotify wrap for 2024, tammy,if that's what you're wondering
.
No, but from time to time Iwill, you know, bring out a
little bit of Irish folk.
Now, I'm not talking likeRiverdance style, you know,
fiddler, but that's what youwere thinking weren't you?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
No, I'm not going to shame you.
Do you have Irish ancestry?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
A little bit Not enough to justify listening to
this music.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay, Because it is shameful.
I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Culturally it's a bit shameful.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I don't think it's shameful.
I mean, it's obviously notsomething that you're going to
play to your partner to kind ofget her in the mood, but yeah,
you're right.
It to your partner to kind ofget her in the mood?
But yeah, you're right, it's acertain there's a time and place
for everything.
Actually, my kids really likeIrish folk music, which is
completely random, right.
(04:36):
My kids love Drunken Sailor andthey know all the words, and it
took a few times of them singingit for me to realise that one
of the lyrics is put him in thebed with the captain's daughter.
Put him in the bed with thecaptain's daughter.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Oh God, I know Not good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So every time that line comes on, I quickly turn
the volume down and then have toturn it back up again.
And then, because they wereliking that so much, the Spotify
algorithm obviously suggestedanother song, the Star of the
County Down, which was my kidspronounce down.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
They constantly scream out mum put on the down.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That is not my idea of Irish folk music, by the way.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, it's not.
What would you call that?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh God, I don't know.
Yeah, you're sort of thinkingof this genre in terms of, like,
imagine going to a sort ofboozy Irish pub on a Friday
night and everyone's gatheredaround and it's very sort of
upbeat.
No, yes, no, that's notpotentially what I'm thinking of
, but I do think that childrendo kind of respond to music in
(05:51):
interesting and intriguing ways.
So, like, my son is reallylocked on to pop music, like
lots of kids.
But then I introduced him toBruce Springsteen and now he's
like you know, every second timewe get into the car he'll be
like Dad, can you put the bosson?
He just loves the boss.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I can hear your felling.
I can hear the nachos in yourvoice.
I can hear your felling.
I can hear the naches in yourvoice.
The Spotify rap is kind ofunfair for people who have kids,
because surely- 100%.
That's going to screw aroundwith the-.
Not the authenticity.
What am I trying to say?
That's going to interfere withthe-.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I'm going to blame it all on my kids.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You're a big Taylor Swift fan, aren't you?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I like Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Sully likes Sabrina Carpenter and particularly
Espresso, and Taylor Swift hasbeen on heavy rotation this year
, which I don't mind.
But yeah, I fully expect thatI'll be.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
You're playing that down.
What do you mean?
You don't mind.
You once came into the podcaststudio humming a tune and I said
what are you singing?
And you said oh, it's Tay-Tay.
And you know, she's actuallyreally talented.
I'm really into her music.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, it's not.
I don't feel like it's ashameful thing, for, like,
everyone's listening to her now,not just everyone, but, like
you know, people that you wouldexpect to be self-conscious
about listening to Tay-Tay arenow acknowledging that she's a
genius and she's entertaining.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not into her.
What?
How can you not enjoy TaylorSwift?
I can acknowledge that she is avery talented songwriter and
performer, but her songs don'tmake my kishkas tingle, sorry.
They just don't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Are they vapid?
Are they too lacking insubstance?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, I don't think they're lacking in substance.
It's just not compelled.
Sometimes it's just you don'tfeel it.
It's kind of like you mightrecall back to your dating days
that there might be someonewho's great on paper, but
there's just no chemistry.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They might tick all the boxes beautiful, smart,
talented, but like you, justthere's just something there
that is don't you feel like youneeded to sometimes maybe push
through and give it a go andthat the chemistry comes over
time?
And likewise with the music.
You can't expect on the firstlisten, to instantly feel it
(08:20):
that you've actually got tolisten to it.
You know, because that wasactually to my mind when you
used to buy records and listento them from start to finish.
That was actually the signsometimes of a brilliant album,
was one where you would listento it and you're like this is
not good, this was a bad choice.
I feel like I just wasted moneyon this album, but actually you
stay with it and keep playingit over and over again.
(08:40):
You're like, actually, this isreally good, this is really
speaking to me so true.
You know, that's true.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And my sister, who used to be my prime dating
advice offerer, she did say youalways go on a second date, like
obviously, if they're like highon the first date or you know
they're a criminal, then you getthe hell out of there.
But even if you're not feelingit, you always give them a
second chance.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, oh, that's beautiful, beautiful sentiments.
Everyone deserves a secondchance.
Beautiful, beautiful sentimentsEveryone deserves a second
chance.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, yeah, Speaking of dating when I was dating in
my early 20s.
If someone were to say so, whatkind of music do you?
Listen to oh yeah, I would sayto them, I would sooner show you
my diary for you to read thantell you what music I listen to
Okay.
It's so personal and soexposing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you really do want to getyour Spotify on private.
Then what's the discomfortabout not even sharing some bits
?
Are you going to do that now,are you?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
going to tell me a little bit about what you listen
to, I think, where it stemsfrom the shame is high school,
when I was in a vocal group andI said to the music teacher, who
I didn't necessarily see as acool person.
I said can we please sing someABBA songs?
Because, I loved ABBA.
(10:09):
It was something that myparents loved and my grandmother
loved, and she looked at me andshe said oh my God, Tammy,
you're such a dag.
And so she shamed me for lovingAbba as a teenager.
I'm not ashamed that I lovedthe Spice Girls.
The first cassette I ever gotwas Meryl Bainbridge Under the
(10:34):
Water.
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what Bainbridge Under the Water?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And what was the like Under?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
the water.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, keep going.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Oh, when I kiss your salty lips.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's right.
You will feel a little grieverfor me, we'll be famous on TV.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, I remember that that was.
Yeah, that was vintage early90s, late 90s, oh, late 90s, was
it?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Mid to late 90s.
So there was a lot of MerylBainbridge, all Saints, spice
Girls.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Hanson Wow, now you're taking me back.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
My heart stops when I think about Hanson and how much
I loved.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Hanson, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I even threw a birthday party to honour their
birthdays.
I was obsessed with Zach Hanson.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
That's it.
Yeah, please stop.
That's it.
Da-do-ba, da-do-ba, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Like we used to have a subject called creative
writing where you could justwrite freely and all of my
stories were fan fiction aboutZach Hansen falling in love with
me, and my teacher used to findthem so amusing that he used to
get me to stand and read thestories to the entire class.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And there was no shame there for you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Back then, no shame.
And then a lot of listening to104.1, today FM, all the like
top 20.
And then you get to a pointwhere, like I really liked the
art and drama department in myhigh school, the teachers were
really cool and Mr Needham, whopotentially listens to this show
(12:14):
, I remember vividly being inlike year 11 or 12 and he was
like you listen to pop music andI was like, yeah, and he's like
no, no, you need to listen toFBI 94.5, independent community
radio station based in Sydneyand it supports local music,
arts and culture.
And yeah, he got me into that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And you're just like boring.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, I was like I need to get into that.
Oh, you got into that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Okay, your journey away from being a normie began.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
That's where it all began, with me trying to impress
my art teacher.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Okay, cool.
Thank you, mr Needham.
So, yeah, back to this year'sSpotify.
Is there anything that you arejust a little bit ashamed that
people might say or to share?
Is there anything that you'reashamed to share with us that's
likely to appear on your Spotify?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
songs that are like.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Super dewy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't even know how to describe it Like strong
female hip hop.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Artists international .
Not all of them are in English.
I love listening to that whenI'm driving by myself.
It's like as soon as the kidsare out of the car and I can put
on that.
That's what I play.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
But it doesn't sound like something one would be
ashamed of this.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
There is a song called Buttons, which is a
TikTok remix of the PussycatDolls Loosen up your buttons.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Why would one get ashamed about the music you
listen to?
And it's usually a reflectionof low culture.
But then there's some lowculture that, like that you just
described, that's sort of beenmeme-ified or is a product of
the internet which people whowould typically look down upon
low culture would actuallyembrace.
And then there's some thingsthat are sort of yeah, of kind
(14:18):
of low culture.
Other bits of low culture thatsort of get through.
But that's where the shamecomes from.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I reckon I suppose so is that why you're ashamed to
admit that you love Coldplay?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I am ashamed to admit that I listen to Coldplay again
because it kind of goes back tolike my teen years slash early
20s.
Where see, I listened toColdplay really early on, before
they became massive.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That's what everyone says, but I believe you.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh mate, 2001,.
Right, their debut album comesout.
This is before Yellow hit theheights that it did.
I mean it came soon after theheights of Yellow and the rest
of the album Parachutes.
All that success came prettymuch soon after that.
But there was a brief momentthere where that album was like
(15:10):
was an indie album that kind ofcame from nowhere, and it
resonated with me Like as youmentioned before, like how some
songs and some music you justconnect with straight away.
I connected with that album sodeeply that album Parachutes.
I still think it's a brilliantalbum and I have no shame about
telling people that.
But then obviously they becamevery popular and their music,
(15:32):
their sound did change and youknow, all of a sudden you had
all kinds of people sometimeswith you know probably quite
questionable musical tastes andI guess they kind of got lumped
in with the masses.
That's unfortunate, because Iactually do and still think that
they're very talented and Istill want the Coldplay of that
(15:55):
indie album of 2001 in my mind.
But you know I couldn't reallycontinue on publicly listening
to Coldplay or publicly beingseen as a Coldplay fan.
But you know, the older I get,the less uncomfortable I am
about the fact that I likeColdplay, that Coldplay would
regularly feature in my Iwouldn't say that actually
(16:17):
regularly features in my Spotifyraps, but it definitely is
something that I'm reaching for.
Once a week, once every coupleof weeks, I'll be whacking on
even some of their more recentsuper popular, super normal
basic music.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I'm ashamed to admit that I shamed my friends who
still liked, you know, supercommercial music in our early
twenties and I was constantlyshaming their playlist and
trying to get them to listen tothe songs that I was listening
to on Triple J.
I'm ashamed to admit that Istill enjoy listening to Triple
J.
I'm definitely too old to belistening to it.
(16:56):
What music concerts did you goto as a teenager?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So after I finished school I went and worked in the
UK for a year and there was anincredibly popular band that
summer of 2003 called Busted.
They were called Busted andlike just a classic pop band boy
band, you know the type Thinkof One Direction in more recent
years as probably a more popularversion, a more successful
(17:23):
version.
So this band, busted, had analbum that had a few songs that
were incredibly catchy and, youknow, hit the top of the pops
and they were the hot thing of2003.
And I was with a group ofpeople that were all listening
to that.
Again, I would have been ashamedto say that I wasn't a fan.
(17:45):
We did go to a free concertonce where they were playing and
then more recently they cameout here to Australia years
later, right 20 years after thesuccess of their first album,
and they played in Sydney andsome of the people that I worked
with were talking about going.
Yeah, there was a real dilemma,like do I actually come out and
(18:09):
, you know, relive those glorydays when actually I'm not
really sure how I feel about themusic?
There is some catchiness thereand then there is some nostalgia
, but also it's really bad popmusic.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I have a similar story In 2005,.
In my gap year I did a weeklyacting course at NIDA and there
was a boy that used to fly infrom Brisbane every Sunday to
take this class and then he'dfly back that night and because
(18:39):
I lived close to the airport, Ioffered to drive him back to the
airport after each class and hesaid to me at the end of the
year Tammy, thank you so muchfor all of this.
I obviously owe you a favor.
If you ever need a favor, callon me Now.
This boy's name is GeorgeShepard.
(19:02):
This boy's name is GeorgeShepard and he became the front
man of the band Shepard.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Oh yeah, they're huge .
Now they were on Ellen.
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
They're huge.
They're doing so so well.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Georgie boy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
A few years ago I heard that Hanson were coming to
Sydney for a concert.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Catch up with your ex-boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, I'm not a concert person, I don't like
crowds, but I was like I thinkfor the sake of nostalgia, I
have to go to this concert.
But tickets were outrageouslyexpensive and I saw that they
had the same music tour promoteras Shepard.
So I texted George and I said,george, what can you do?
He got me two tickets.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I took a friend.
We went there, wow, and it wasone of the most disappointing
experiences of my life because Iwanted them to play the middle
of nowhere album that I knew allthe songs to.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
The bangers.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Exactly, and instead they were playing like their new
shit, which I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You don't do that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
No, no no, no, no, no , no no.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and a lot of like geriatric millennials, just
kind of swaying and like youknow, they knew all the songs
and we were like we do notbelong here.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But also they had to get home by nine o'clock because
you know they'd have their kidswaking them up the next morning
at six o'clock, so theycouldn't exactly stay out.
So it was the energy was low.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, and it was a standing concert too, and you
know when you're Ashkenazi Jewwith arthritis like you don't
want to be in a standing concert.
Nah, You've been listening toSummer Shames, the Shvitsi
Shvesta podcast of a shame toadmit.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, Dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your Ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about koses in Ladino?
Or dig dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle, or zug zug.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay.
It's Summer Shames, it's Summer Shames, it's Summer
Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hmm, he says he's not ashamed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm ashamed, you're ashamed, they should be ashamed.
We call that repressed shame.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Well, she needs to tame the shame and move on.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Is it a Jewish thing, maybe?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You tell me.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I'm Tammy Sussman and in this special series of A
Shame to Admit, I'm going tosqueeze some of the chewiest
shames out of TJI's ExecutiveDirector, dr Dashiell Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
While your third cousin overshares her chewiest
faux pas.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Welcome to your weekly dose of Summer Shames.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey Tammy.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Dashiell.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We are approaching the time of year when Spotify
release their annual SpotifyWrap, which, for those of you
who don't know, it's whereSpotify, the music playing
library platform, compiles alist of all of your most played
and engaged with songs for theyear.
Some people get very excitedabout it, you know.
They share it on social media.
(01:25):
They want to tell their friendshey, look at all the cool new
songs I've been listening to.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
They want to peacock yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, Like it's a way , I guess, of showing your taste
.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
They want to be smug.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, I have never shared my Spotify rap with my
friends, with anyone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Why not.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Well, I don't have, so my Spotify is on private.
I don't actually like people toknow what songs I'm listening
to, and the whole notion oftelling people what you listen
to is and kind of sharing thatlike a social media thing is
really antithetical, is reallyodd to me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Same.
It's so exposing.
In fact, you just freaked meout and now I'm thinking how do
I make sure that my Spotify whatdo you mean it can be public?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you're like people
can find you on Spotify andfollow you and then see what
songs you've been playing.
I want to see if I can find youon here.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh no, Didn't you know this, no, I told you I'm
like the dumbest smart personyou know.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So, like a few years ago, a friend of mine was like
this is before.
I sort of put it on private.
He was like mate, what's withall that crap?
Irish folk music you listen toOkay.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Go on.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
What is with?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
all the crap Irish folk music that you listen to.
Now we're getting somewhere.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, you know, like with music, there is a song for
every mood, for every day, forevery week.
Well, I don't always just wantto listen to the same shit,
right?
Sometimes I'm feeling nostalgicand I feel like I want a kind
of like a warm, comfortingblanket, and the music of my
(03:16):
childhood sometimes is what Ineed, and my parents were both
quite eclectic array of musicand I heard all kinds of sounds
growing up and mum had quite ayeah, she had like a kind of an
Irish folk thing going on therefor a while and yeah, it's stuck
(03:41):
with me.
I mean, it's not on highrotation, it wouldn't appear on
my Spotify wrap for 2024, tammy,if that's what you're wondering
.
No, but from time to time Iwill, you know, bring out a
little bit of Irish folk.
Now, I'm not talking likeRiverdance style, you know,
fiddler, but that's what youwere thinking weren't you?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
No, I'm not going to shame you.
Do you have Irish ancestry?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
A little bit Not enough to justify listening to
this music.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay, Because it is shameful.
I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Culturally it's a bit shameful.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I don't think it's shameful.
I mean, it's obviously notsomething that you're going to
play to your partner to kind ofget her in the mood, but yeah,
you're right.
It to your partner to kind ofget her in the mood?
But yeah, you're right, it's acertain there's a time and place
for everything.
Actually, my kids really likeIrish folk music, which is
completely random, right.
(04:36):
My kids love Drunken Sailor andthey know all the words, and it
took a few times of them singingit for me to realise that one
of the lyrics is put him in thebed with the captain's daughter.
Put him in the bed with thecaptain's daughter.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Oh God, I know Not good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So every time that line comes on, I quickly turn
the volume down and then have toturn it back up again.
And then, because they wereliking that so much, the Spotify
algorithm obviously suggestedanother song, the Star of the
County Down, which was my kidspronounce down.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
They constantly scream out mum put on the down.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That is not my idea of Irish folk music, by the way.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, it's not.
What would you call that?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh God, I don't know.
Yeah, you're sort of thinkingof this genre in terms of, like,
imagine going to a sort ofboozy Irish pub on a Friday
night and everyone's gatheredaround and it's very sort of
upbeat.
No, yes, no, that's notpotentially what I'm thinking of
, but I do think that childrendo kind of respond to music in
(05:51):
interesting and intriguing ways.
So, like, my son is reallylocked on to pop music, like
lots of kids.
But then I introduced him toBruce Springsteen and now he's
like you know, every second timewe get into the car he'll be
like Dad, can you put the bosson?
He just loves the boss.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
I can hear your felling.
I can hear the nachos in yourvoice.
I can hear your felling.
I can hear the naches in yourvoice.
The Spotify rap is kind ofunfair for people who have kids,
because surely- 100%.
That's going to screw aroundwith the-.
Not the authenticity.
What am I trying to say?
That's going to interfere withthe-.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I'm going to blame it all on my kids.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You're a big Taylor Swift fan, aren't you?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I like Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Sully likes Sabrina Carpenter and particularly
Espresso, and Taylor Swift hasbeen on heavy rotation this year
, which I don't mind.
But yeah, I fully expect thatI'll be.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
You're playing that down.
What do you mean?
You don't mind.
You once came into the podcaststudio humming a tune and I said
what are you singing?
And you said oh, it's Tay-Tay.
And you know, she's actuallyreally talented.
I'm really into her music.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, it's not.
I don't feel like it's ashameful thing, for, like,
everyone's listening to her now,not just everyone, but, like
you know, people that you wouldexpect to be self-conscious
about listening to Tay-Tay arenow acknowledging that she's a
genius and she's entertaining.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not into her.
What?
How can you not enjoy TaylorSwift?
I can acknowledge that she is avery talented songwriter and
performer, but her songs don'tmake my kishkas tingle, sorry.
They just don't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Are they vapid?
Are they too lacking insubstance?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, I don't think they're lacking in substance.
It's just not compelled.
Sometimes it's just you don'tfeel it.
It's kind of like you mightrecall back to your dating days
that there might be someonewho's great on paper, but
there's just no chemistry.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They might tick all the boxes beautiful, smart,
talented, but like you, justthere's just something there
that is don't you feel like youneeded to sometimes maybe push
through and give it a go andthat the chemistry comes over
time?
And likewise with the music.
You can't expect on the firstlisten, to instantly feel it
(08:20):
that you've actually got tolisten to it.
You know, because that wasactually to my mind when you
used to buy records and listento them from start to finish.
That was actually the signsometimes of a brilliant album,
was one where you would listento it and you're like this is
not good, this was a bad choice.
I feel like I just wasted moneyon this album, but actually you
stay with it and keep playingit over and over again.
(08:40):
You're like, actually, this isreally good, this is really
speaking to me so true.
You know, that's true.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And my sister, who used to be my prime dating
advice offerer, she did say youalways go on a second date, like
obviously, if they're like highon the first date or you know
they're a criminal, then you getthe hell out of there.
But even if you're not feelingit, you always give them a
second chance.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, oh, that's beautiful, beautiful sentiments.
Everyone deserves a secondchance.
Beautiful, beautiful sentimentsEveryone deserves a second
chance.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, yeah, Speaking of dating when I was dating in
my early 20s.
If someone were to say so, whatkind of music do you?
Listen to oh yeah, I would sayto them, I would sooner show you
my diary for you to read thantell you what music I listen to
Okay.
It's so personal and soexposing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you really do want to getyour Spotify on private.
Then what's the discomfortabout not even sharing some bits
?
Are you going to do that now,are you?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
going to tell me a little bit about what you listen
to, I think, where it stemsfrom the shame is high school,
when I was in a vocal group andI said to the music teacher, who
I didn't necessarily see as acool person.
I said can we please sing someABBA songs?
Because, I loved ABBA.
(10:09):
It was something that myparents loved and my grandmother
loved, and she looked at me andshe said oh my God, Tammy,
you're such a dag.
And so she shamed me for lovingAbba as a teenager.
I'm not ashamed that I lovedthe Spice Girls.
The first cassette I ever gotwas Meryl Bainbridge Under the
(10:34):
Water.
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what Bainbridge Under the Water?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
And what was the like Under?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
the water.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, keep going.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Oh, when I kiss your salty lips.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's right.
You will feel a little grieverfor me, we'll be famous on TV.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, I remember that that was.
Yeah, that was vintage early90s, late 90s, oh, late 90s, was
it?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Mid to late 90s.
So there was a lot of MerylBainbridge, all Saints, spice
Girls.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Hanson Wow, now you're taking me back.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
My heart stops when I think about Hanson and how much
I loved.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Hanson, tell me more.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
I even threw a birthday party to honour their
birthdays.
I was obsessed with Zach Hanson.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
That's it.
Yeah, please stop.
That's it.
Da-do-ba, da-do-ba, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Like we used to have a subject called creative
writing where you could justwrite freely and all of my
stories were fan fiction aboutZach Hansen falling in love with
me, and my teacher used to findthem so amusing that he used to
get me to stand and read thestories to the entire class.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And there was no shame there for you.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Back then, no shame.
And then a lot of listening to104.1, today FM, all the like
top 20.
And then you get to a pointwhere, like I really liked the
art and drama department in myhigh school, the teachers were
really cool and Mr Needham, whopotentially listens to this show
(12:14):
, I remember vividly being inlike year 11 or 12 and he was
like you listen to pop music andI was like, yeah, and he's like
no, no, you need to listen toFBI 94.5, independent community
radio station based in Sydneyand it supports local music,
arts and culture.
And yeah, he got me into that.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And you're just like boring.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, I was like I need to get into that.
Oh, you got into that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Okay, your journey away from being a normie began.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
That's where it all began, with me trying to impress
my art teacher.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Okay, cool.
Thank you, mr Needham.
So, yeah, back to this year'sSpotify.
Is there anything that you arejust a little bit ashamed that
people might say or to share?
Is there anything that you'reashamed to share with us that's
likely to appear on your Spotify?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
songs that are like.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Super dewy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't even know how to describe it Like strong
female hip hop.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Artists international .
Not all of them are in English.
I love listening to that whenI'm driving by myself.
It's like as soon as the kidsare out of the car and I can put
on that.
That's what I play.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
But it doesn't sound like something one would be
ashamed of this.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
There is a song called Buttons, which is a
TikTok remix of the PussycatDolls Loosen up your buttons.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Why would one get ashamed about the music you
listen to?
And it's usually a reflectionof low culture.
But then there's some lowculture that, like that you just
described, that's sort of beenmeme-ified or is a product of
the internet which people whowould typically look down upon
low culture would actuallyembrace.
And then there's some thingsthat are sort of yeah, of kind
(14:18):
of low culture.
Other bits of low culture thatsort of get through.
But that's where the shamecomes from.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I reckon I suppose so is that why you're ashamed to
admit that you love Coldplay?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I am ashamed to admit that I listen to Coldplay again
because it kind of goes back tolike my teen years slash early
20s.
Where see, I listened toColdplay really early on, before
they became massive.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
That's what everyone says, but I believe you.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh mate, 2001,.
Right, their debut album comesout.
This is before Yellow hit theheights that it did.
I mean it came soon after theheights of Yellow and the rest
of the album Parachutes.
All that success came prettymuch soon after that.
But there was a brief momentthere where that album was like
(15:10):
was an indie album that kind ofcame from nowhere, and it
resonated with me Like as youmentioned before, like how some
songs and some music you justconnect with straight away.
I connected with that album sodeeply that album Parachutes.
I still think it's a brilliantalbum and I have no shame about
telling people that.
But then obviously they becamevery popular and their music,
(15:32):
their sound did change and youknow, all of a sudden you had
all kinds of people sometimeswith you know probably quite
questionable musical tastes andI guess they kind of got lumped
in with the masses.
That's unfortunate, because Iactually do and still think that
they're very talented and Istill want the Coldplay of that
(15:55):
indie album of 2001 in my mind.
But you know I couldn't reallycontinue on publicly listening
to Coldplay or publicly beingseen as a Coldplay fan.
But you know, the older I get,the less uncomfortable I am
about the fact that I likeColdplay, that Coldplay would
regularly feature in my Iwouldn't say that actually
(16:17):
regularly features in my Spotifyraps, but it definitely is
something that I'm reaching for.
Once a week, once every coupleof weeks, I'll be whacking on
even some of their more recentsuper popular, super normal
basic music.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I'm ashamed to admit that I shamed my friends who
still liked, you know, supercommercial music in our early
twenties and I was constantlyshaming their playlist and
trying to get them to listen tothe songs that I was listening
to on Triple J.
I'm ashamed to admit that Istill enjoy listening to Triple
J.
I'm definitely too old to belistening to it.
(16:56):
What music concerts did you goto as a teenager?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So after I finished school I went and worked in the
UK for a year and there was anincredibly popular band that
summer of 2003 called Busted.
They were called Busted andlike just a classic pop band boy
band, you know the type Thinkof One Direction in more recent
years as probably a more popularversion, a more successful
(17:23):
version.
So this band, busted, had analbum that had a few songs that
were incredibly catchy and, youknow, hit the top of the pops
and they were the hot thing of2003.
And I was with a group ofpeople that were all listening
to that.
Again, I would have been ashamedto say that I wasn't a fan.
(17:45):
We did go to a free concertonce where they were playing and
then more recently they cameout here to Australia years
later, right 20 years after thesuccess of their first album,
and they played in Sydney andsome of the people that I worked
with were talking about going.
Yeah, there was a real dilemma,like do I actually come out and
(18:09):
, you know, relive those glorydays when actually I'm not
really sure how I feel about themusic?
There is some catchiness thereand then there is some nostalgia
, but also it's really bad popmusic.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I have a similar story In 2005,.
In my gap year I did a weeklyacting course at NIDA and there
was a boy that used to fly infrom Brisbane every Sunday to
take this class and then he'dfly back that night and because
(18:39):
I lived close to the airport, Ioffered to drive him back to the
airport after each class and hesaid to me at the end of the
year Tammy, thank you so muchfor all of this.
I obviously owe you a favor.
If you ever need a favor, callon me Now.
This boy's name is GeorgeShepard.
(19:02):
This boy's name is GeorgeShepard and he became the front
man of the band Shepard.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Oh yeah, they're huge .
Now they were on Ellen.
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
They're huge.
They're doing so so well.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Georgie boy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
A few years ago I heard that Hanson were coming to
Sydney for a concert.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Catch up with your ex-boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, I'm not a concert person, I don't like
crowds, but I was like I thinkfor the sake of nostalgia, I
have to go to this concert.
But tickets were outrageouslyexpensive and I saw that they
had the same music tour promoteras Shepard.
So I texted George and I said,george, what can you do?
He got me two tickets.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I took a friend.
We went there, wow, and it wasone of the most disappointing
experiences of my life because Iwanted them to play the middle
of nowhere album that I knew allthe songs to.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
The bangers.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Exactly, and instead they were playing like their new
shit, which I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
You don't do that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
No, no no, no, no, no , no no.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and a lot of like geriatric millennials, just
kind of swaying and like youknow, they knew all the songs
and we were like we do notbelong here.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But also they had to get home by nine o'clock because
you know they'd have their kidswaking them up the next morning
at six o'clock, so theycouldn't exactly stay out.
So it was the energy was low.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, and it was a standing concert too, and you
know when you're Ashkenazi Jewwith arthritis like you don't
want to be in a standing concert.
Nah, You've been listening toSummer Shames, the Shvitsi
Shvesta podcast of a shame toadmit.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Presented by the Jewish Independent and hosted by
me, Dash Lawrence and TammySussman.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
These episodes are edited by Nick King.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
If you like what we're doing, it's time to wipe
the sunscreen off your hands andleave a review.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Or if you're in a different hemisphere, dash,
because we forgot that some ofour listeners live overseas and
it's not summer there.
Remove your mittens and give ussome stars.
We'll take five of them, thanks.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
As always.
Thanks for the support and welook forward to Kitzel your Ears
next week.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You chose Yiddish.
That's very racist.
What about koses in Ladino?
Or dig dug in Hebrew?
Tickle, give your ears a littletickle, or zug zug.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I only know Kitzel.
I've got a book about Kitzel.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay.
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