July 30, 2025 • 62 mins
In this illuminating episode, we sit down with John Morton, Spiritual Director of The Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (MSIA), and his wife Leigh Taylor Young to explore the principles of soul transcendence, inner peace, and divine connection. John and Leigh share insights into MSIA’s core teachings, the role of the Mystical Traveler, and how spiritual awareness can be cultivated through practical, loving service and inner attunement. We discuss the movement’s origins, its evolution, and how seekers can experience a direct and personal relationship with Spirit. This episode offers a grounded and accessible look into one of the most enduring spiritual paths of modern times.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome to Ashley On, your one-stop podcast where
we talk about health andwellness, spirituality and all
things new.
Stick around as we delve deepinto innovations to support a
better world.
SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Today's show is with John Mortonand Lee Taylor Young from the
Movement of Spiritual InnerAwareness.
MSIA helps you discover who youtruly are inside.
They teach soul transcendence,becoming aware of yourself as a
soul and as being one with God,not as a theory, but as healthy
living reality.
(00:46):
Their approach focuses on how toincorporate spirituality into
your everyday life in atangible, workable way.
They call it practicalspirituality.
It's a wonderful show with Johnand Lee.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much.
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Hello, John Morton and LeeTaylor Young.
Nice to meet you both again andto see you both.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show.
I'm honored to have you heretoday.
speaking with you and it'sreally a blessing for our
(03:17):
listeners to get a chance totalk to you both as well.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:20):
Yes, it's been a pleasure to meet you in Boulder
and we know your son.
So Jackson and your wife aswell.
And so we're just glad to comein and see if we can do
something interesting andwhatever else comes forward in
your focus and whatever youwould like.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Great.
Well, thank you so much.
Why don't we just start byintroducing yourselves and the
movement of spiritual innerawareness.
Let's start there and talk aboutyourselves and your backgrounds
and that and the mission.
And we'll just kind of see wherethis conversation takes us.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
Okay.
Okay.
I would like my wife, Lee,because actually I think she was
involved...
with the Movement of SpiritualInner Awareness, which is an
organization founded by a mannamed John Roger.
I would consider that's 1971officially when it became a
church, a nonprofit, but also afocus that has no denominations
(04:28):
and it's considered in a wayuniversal, philosophical.
Here you go, what would you say?
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Well, I would say that...
meeting our mutual teacher, JohnRoger, was beyond a life
transformational beginning.
I met him first, you could sayalmost by accident, but I now
know in retrospect, not at all,in 1971 in Santa Barbara, when I
(04:55):
was very much committed toMuktananda.
I was involved with Siddha Yoga,Baba Muktananda, and I was
introducing Baba.
I was very shy, so I was the oneBaba always chose to introduce
him, which was terrifying.
And I would say, are you reallysure?
(05:16):
He'd say, he'd look, give me thelook like, yes.
And so I knew if it felt likewalking the plank or into a
fire, I would do it for thatreason, for a higher purpose.
I was doing a sound check tointroduce him.
The doors of this church wherethis was going to take place
(05:37):
opened and down the aisle came agentleman with two friends
coming came right up to thestage, put out his hand, and he
introduced himself, and he said,hello, my name is John Roger.
And I shook his hand, and Irealized in retrospect that
that's when it really began.
I met him again in 1973, and Irealized this was my teacher,
(06:00):
and that all teachers are soincredibly valuable.
All teachers lead us where we'reto go.
And when I found John Roger, itwas...
you know i've never looked backnor have i ever seen any guide
now inner as he's passed fromthis world more potent in
(06:23):
guiding me spiritually and now ihave the blessing of being with
and working with uh john mortonwho carries on john rogers work
around the world so it has beenan amazing life of learning
growth I realized I've beencalled all the way along to
(06:46):
every choice, whether Iconsciously knew it or not.
I often more in retrospect, Irealized I was perfectly called
from my soul to my next momentof growth.
And it just never stops.
It never stops.
And being married and in supportof this magnificent being, Every
(07:10):
day is school.
Every day is school.
And I chose it.
I chose the hot seat and the hotladder, but I'm climbing and I
love it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Well, it sounds like you're doing great.
And it looks like you're doinggreat too.
So I thank you again for sharingthat.
And John, why don't you tell usabout yourself too?
SPEAKER_03 (07:32):
All right.
Well, I'll pick up what youasked about in some ways
describing myself.
What is the movement ofspiritual awareness?
And so for me, I remember somekey moments in my life.
For some reason, I expected thatwhen I would graduate from
college, and I did, from UCDavis, in 1972, that I would
(07:58):
know what I was doing.
I would know where I want tolive.
I would know what work I wouldbe doing, maybe where I want to
raise a family, things likethis.
And then when I really got closeto graduation, I realized, if
anything, I was moredisillusioned about what was
going to happen in my life.
I really didn't know.
(08:19):
So I was probably amongst manyof my peers in a search.
So that that's one part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
It's very relatable.
SPEAKER_03 (08:28):
Yeah.
And I really didn't know what amI looking for?
And I didn't even know what thatwas.
So I was going to lots ofgroups, uh, just to see, well,
what does this one do?
What is that one doing?
Um, and not really findinganything that really pulled me
in.
So I would immerse myself.
Um, so that, that did lead to,you know, uh, let's see, when
(08:52):
was that?
1974, a couple of years later,when I was a park ranger for the
state of California.
And one of the other parkrangers just said what he was
doing lately.
And he mentioned spiritualawareness seminars.
And I was like, what's that?
Went to somebody's home, had anamazing experience, but I didn't
really understand theexperience, but it was very
(09:13):
powerful.
And then that created aninterest.
And let's see, that's 74.
Then 1978, I had someexperiences leading up to going
to work with John Roger upclose, personal, on his personal
staff, traveling with him allover the world for years.
And that led to me actuallydoing what is the succession of
(09:40):
his work.
So that's one way to look atwhat I do.
And it's really about soulawareness and that the soul is
the true self.
It's the spiritual nature of whowe are.
Once we get onto that, then ourlife becomes something that
makes more sense for sure.
That doesn't mean we understandeverything, but it certainly
(10:00):
gives us purpose.
And it's an inner directedmovement.
We don't have a mission.
We don't have something like wehave to convert humanity to
this.
It's much more individual.
we often say, don't believethis.
You need to have the experience.
(10:20):
Have the experience.
And there's a lot about that.
We teach something calledspiritual exercise.
And it's about just waking upinside and calling on God's
name.
So we do initiations into God'snames.
And a lot of us should say,well, they do that in this group
or that organization or that'swhat the Buddhists do.
(10:42):
And We really, at the core,consider ourselves followers of
the Christ, and then thatbecomes something like, well,
you mean the one in the Bibleand the Gospels?
It's like, well, not necessarilythat way, so we're not
conventional.
And often organizations or otherpeople in organizations call us
(11:04):
a cult or something like that.
It's like, okay, but maybe whatJesus did was a cult.
Right.
you know, what is a cult?
And if it's cult, I like theword cultivate.
It's like, yeah, the seeds areplanted.
Are we going to raise the fruitsand have a heart?
So make it as simple aspossible.
(11:24):
And then we can go anywhere withwhatever you want to look at,
Ashley.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, I'd like to go further on this.
I mean, I'm, you know, I, I was,and I may have mentioned this to
you when we met in Boulder, um,My own personal experience, I
was raised under the fear of Godmindset.
Half of the family wasMethodist, half of the family
(11:53):
was Baptist.
And we had to go to church everySunday and Sunday school in the
summers.
And I never understood it.
I never got it because why wouldyou want to be scared of God?
It just, it never took.
And so as soon as I got oldenough to make my own decisions
to never go back to church, Inever went back because it just
(12:18):
turned me off completely.
Now I have a healthy respect forGod and spirit.
I love God.
I love my life.
I'm grateful to God every day.
I've been blessed beyondimagine.
And we raised, you mentioned myson Jackson.
(12:38):
We raised him in the Catholicenvironment primarily because
where he was growing up, wedidn't have, you know, the
school systems weren't thatgreat.
And we tried a regular privateschool that wasn't that great.
We really had heard wonderfulthings about the local Catholic
(12:59):
school.
And so we put him into that andmy wife and I really wanted him
to be, you know, in addition towhat we were teaching him, we
wanted him to have anunderstanding of, of God from a
religious perspective so that hecould make his own decisions.
Um, and we kind of stayed withthat as we moved from the
Midwest to Colorado, um, becauseit was easy to keep him in the
(13:21):
same day to day routines.
You know, the Catholic schoolsystem is basically the same
everywhere you go.
So when we moved, we thought,okay, why, why disrupt his, his,
his peace.
Uh, and so we kept him in thatsystem, but you know, we, we
really have never been, youknow, as a family, um,
(13:42):
denominational when it comes to,to religion and, and spirit.
And so I would like for you tomaybe expand a little bit
because what you're talkingabout, um, spiritual awareness,
I'm hoping it resonates with alot of people who are, um, know
listening to this who maybe areare missing something in their
(14:03):
lives um or you know or maybehave been turned off from
organized religion much like iwas i can't believe that i'm
alone in that experience um andso i would love for you to share
just to you know go let's go alittle deeper on what is it
exactly that you're helpingfolks um find and achieve in
(14:26):
their life with with themovement of spiritual inner
awareness
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I'm just so drawn and touched to your story about
your childhood because I had adifferent one, but one of the
things that I've learned is I'ma bit of a scholar.
I like to go back and look atscripture.
I'm not a Bible person, but I'minterested in what has put in
motion such significant systemsof spiritual thought.
(14:54):
And What I see is that the OldTestament up till Moses, who
their God was Yahweh, Jehovah.
He was fierce, judgmental, andMoses used this terror to kind
of work with his people with anorder of law, because he was
(15:14):
dealing with some say 500,000immigrants from Egypt, that he
was in charge of socializing andguiding.
And that sort of fear of God gotvery input into a system.
And that was a covenant.
The 10 laws are a covenant withGod.
(15:36):
And then we go to Jesus, it's anew covenant, the law of grace,
love.
So Jesus said, I'm here tofulfill the law.
But then he brought a newcovenant, which was love and
grace.
If you go to the book of John,he that lives in God lives in
(15:57):
love.
He that lives in love is attunedto God.
Now you have, in a sense, a newGod, almost a new quality.
that people are being introducedto through the christ to love
your neighbor as yourself tocare to serve and to love god
with all your heart body mindand soul and your neighbor the
(16:19):
same this is a whole new worldof relating to life which What
they did in the New Testament,what religion did with it is
another story.
It's what man does with thesethings, not what God may be
saying.
And I think what MSIA does isawakens people.
(16:40):
They are that God inside.
They are that love inside andthe authority for true
ascension.
is inside and this is what johnteaches this is what john
communicates all over the worldis waking people up to the
authority of their hearts andtheir souls that they're the
(17:01):
source of that loving thatcontentment that inspiration
it's not in law in the endbecause then you become you
cease to attune to your ownauthority of spirit.
You are looking for something tointercede, which is essentially
(17:22):
a man.
And that's, you know, Jesusupset everybody by telling
people, ye are gods.
It's like, wake up.
You have this.
Those Pharisees and Sadduceesdid not like that, you know,
because it took away theirpower.
(17:43):
And if there was one thing thatsoul transcendence that John
teaches, it's an empowerment inthe spirit.
So people become so full of lovebecause they love themselves.
They find that golden side thatis pure love and live from that
place.
Isn't that what it is?
SPEAKER_03 (18:06):
She did very good.
just obviously of what we do andthen demonstrated that even
though she says that I'm not aBible person, she knows a lot
about the Bible.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
clearly.
SPEAKER_03 (18:17):
She's somebody who can do that, can read very
in-depth books and informationand then speak to it very
powerfully.
You know, and I also look atthis as our natural ability As I
see it, it's in a processreferred to as a discovery and
(18:41):
exploration and adventure.
That's really what life is inthis world.
I look to answers and Icertainly was like anybody, I
think, seeking like, who am I?
Where did I come from?
What is this world?
If we don't ask those questions,like, well, then tell me if
you're an authority on what isthis world?
(19:01):
What's its purpose?
How did we get here?
A lot of that's tremendouslymysterious.
And then is there life afterdeath?
You know, and who's an authorityon that?
So if people have theexperiences, and there are many,
many people, I don't know whatthe percentages are, but there
(19:21):
are huge numbers of people dohave experiences that are not of
this world.
And then you can say, well,you're hallucinating or You're
imagining that.
Well, that's just because youdon't have the experience.
So why are you an authority ifyou don't know what I'm seeing
or experiencing that's not inthis world?
And I look at that, that that'sreally much more something like
(19:47):
logical or reasonable that Thereare other worlds with life,
intelligent life, maybe muchmore intelligent than human
beings in this planet.
And just to consider, well, howwould that be ordered?
Well, that's another mystery.
And I look at it that there'shigher consciousness.
(20:07):
And if I was going to choose whowould I want to associate with,
I'd want to associate with themost intelligent beings, and
then what would they be tellingus by their intelligence?
And I look at, in myconsciousness, the most
intelligent way to be is loving.
If anybody said, well, what do Ido?
And I'd say, well, just find away to be loving.
(20:29):
I'm not saying that's easy, butit is what will always bring the
best opportunities, the bestchoices in how I have
experienced it.
And then we're learning how toovercome what we call the lower
nature, the basic nature in ourconsciousness.
And I think there's a lot ofevidence that we do evolve.
(20:50):
We have evolved from a lowernature.
Then is it creative?
Did man come from clay?
Some powerful god from somewherejust made a man and then said,
oh, you want to help me?
I'm going to take your rib andI'm going to make you help me.
(21:10):
Well, you know, I don't findthat very reasonable and I don't
understand.
It's a very mysteriousexplanation of how did we all
get here.
But I do look at like maybe it'ssomething mysterious.
That's okay.
But more importantly, what do weall individually do with our
life?
And then I found, well, I wantto do something to make my life
(21:33):
better.
And I was inclined to help makelife better, help others.
I knew that at a pretty earlyage.
I wanted to help others, whichled to...
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
Feels good, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:45):
Life of service, yes.
There's something about it thatif we do something to make our
situation better just in ourlife, and then if we can extend
that to help others have abetter life, I think if we were
doing that more, this worldwould be a lot different than it
is.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
You know, on that note, if people also with what
he does to kind of ignite peopleto that awakening that they
carry it inside and how to findit, I think that's a lot of what
the teaching is.
It's a given in our way ofexperiencing that the soul is
(22:25):
here in everyone and the spiritis everywhere.
is in everyone, to what degreeit's awakened and enlightened is
our choice and our calling ornot.
And I've always liked to saythat choice is a human being's
superpower.
We get to choose everything,including how we think, how we
(22:48):
feel.
Are we letting feelings be theauthority in our life?
We feel good, we feel bad, andwe're going to go with that.
Or if we're not feeling so well,is it a moment of choice where
we can say, I'm going to takethe authority over how I'm going
to choose joy?
I'm going to choose.
(23:08):
And there's a response insidethat recognizes these positive
things that wants to come inallegiance with it.
But we're the ones that have totake the authority to guide it
to that.
John also teaches something, asdid John Roger and an MSIA, that
we carry, in a sense, the wordswe use and words we know are
(23:30):
limited.
to true spiritual experience.
It's almost a paltry attempt todescribe something way beyond
words, but the teaching that weall have an inner master inside,
that the guidance is foundwithin.
So how do we go through all thevoices that affect us?
(23:50):
Are they mental?
Are they emotional?
Are they habitual?
That are leading us intobehavior that we may like in the
end and we may not like.
But how can we head it off atthe curb and be the authority to
go this way?
And that really takes practice.
That takes discipline andchoice.
(24:11):
And those choices and thosedisciplines are a lot of what
MSIA does.
provides is how do we start torespond to these questions?
Why am I here?
What am I here for?
There's a lot of guidance inMSIA that's profound and I think
(24:34):
reflects a lot of what peopleoften think inside.
So when you read it, you go, Iknow that.
I know that.
It's like a lighting up ratherthan a church with a system of
thought telling you what tothink, telling you what to feel
or behave.
It's inside you and you end upgoing, I'm in allegiance with
(24:58):
this because this is goodness ofmy soul.
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
that's what Jesus said, right?
I mean, the kingdom of heavenresides within you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:05):
He never said it was out here.
Not ever.
And powers that be in those daysreally didn't like that.
SPEAKER_03 (25:14):
And there's another aspect of his life and teaching,
and it's quite central to whatwe teach, but we also teach
about the Buddha consciousness.
Muhammad is somebody we look atas had authority, had a teaching
that was very Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (25:34):
They all converge into love, right?
I mean, that's where theconvergence comes together,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Yes, and I think it's important that people, like
each person really considers,well, what am I led to?
What am I inspired by?
But to look at what is yourvision?
So if your vision is somethingthat is inclusive of others, so
you would want a better life forothers also.
(26:00):
And is there a way to contributethat so that we have a better
life?
I think that's one of thepurposes Like how do we
incarnate into this world?
We often refer to it asembodiment because it's much
more about having a body for atemporary time.
And then there's re-embodimentor reincarnation, whatever
(26:23):
that's called.
But until somebody knows that ina direct way, it's just
information or, oh, that's justa theory.
And I don't believe in it.
Okay.
But if you take a stance, like,well, I don't believe it.
That's not possible.
I don't like that.
Watch out, because you may beclosing yourself off to what it
(26:44):
is.
And the overwhelming aspects ofwhat I see and who we are is
it's a beautiful story.
It's something that's alreadydirected very powerfully by
whatever you want to call thesource.
So I said, well, let's use God,and that's a good name until God
(27:04):
says, well, no, I have thisname.
And I look at it that way.
Okay, we can find somewhere tostart.
And I often tell people, youknow, you can pray.
And they go, well, I don't knowhow to pray.
I often find people, like, noone really taught me to pray.
My parents didn't teach me howto pray.
I went to Lutheran Church, whichwas my father's church, and But
(27:28):
it was not every week.
So we were like Easter Sunday orholidays.
And then my mom was raisedBaptist, Southern Baptist.
And that was also different.
And she would have some stories,you know, about.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
I know all about that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
Who was at the pulpit and what they were saying
at the pulpit.
It was not exactly encouragingmessages.
Like starting with, you aresinners.
And here, let's go into that.
Like, yeah, punishment.
And so I look at, you know, ifwe look at God is love, and this
is in John, in the Gospel ofJohn.
(28:06):
It starts that way.
It just starts there.
God is love.
And that's a beautiful message.
It
SPEAKER_02 (28:13):
really is.
UNKNOWN (28:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:16):
And one of our primary teachings is from John
Roger is out of God comes allthings.
So we have a one creator and Godloves all of his creation.
You know, there's people atInstagram, what do you mean?
You love violence and you lovehatred.
And well, how are we going tochange it if we don't somehow
(28:40):
love it as the greatest power tochange it?
And that's what I would say topeople.
It's intelligent to love,because it's the power that has
the most power to change things.
And I think Jesus, and manyothers, I mean, we could take
many examples of brilliantbeings, we'll call them saints,
(29:00):
call them anointed ones.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Avatars.
SPEAKER_03 (29:04):
Yeah, you know, what did they teach by their life,
that their life was demonstratedby how they lived, and often
their choices were verydifficult.
that they weren't popular andthere was tremendous resistance,
if not against us.
And they often paid prices, bigprices for how they lived.
(29:24):
And I look at like, well, stillin that world where it's not
easy.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
Well, I think it also, I'd love your thoughts on
this because I've run into thiseven with just friends over the
years.
I mean, this idea that thekingdom of heaven resides within
us and we are all God in our ownway.
We have the divine spark.
Not everybody responds to thatvery well, not just the
(29:50):
Pharisees.
I mean, even today, you know,people I talk to who maybe knew
me back when, you know, backwhen I maybe wasn't the greatest
person, you know, and theythink, well, what a hypocrite
that person is for saying that,right?
Because how can someone who didX, Y, and Z actually be God?
And it takes a, it takes a highdegree of personal
(30:13):
responsibility to go with thatmessage and to then live and to,
and to maybe change your life ifyou need to, or to take on that,
that responsibility.
And I think a lot of people justdon't want to go there.
And I'd love to just know yourthoughts on that and what you've
seen, if you've seen similarsituation in your travels with
(30:35):
people.
And if it's just the, it's soeasy to avoid that
responsibility, but if youreally want to think about what
this means, it creates aresponsibility.
That's that's quite awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
One of my favorite prophets is Jeremiah.
And the reason is notnecessarily because of the
context of the history around itwith Israel, but he was a truth
teller.
And God was alive in him andignited when he was around 12
years old and went into thetemple.
(31:07):
He started seeing things.
He started knowing things.
And he was being asked to speakand he was shy and he was
afraid.
But he's one of the greatestexamples of when the majority
around you does not agree withyou.
He was tortured, all thesethings, but he always stood up
to what he knew to be the way,which was love.
(31:30):
and he was a forerunner insaying the law of god is written
in your heart so go inside towhere it's truly written in the
heart so i think these peopleall through time are the
minority we're the minority inthis world i mean just look at
our world we're the minority wewe believe that love is the way
(31:54):
the greatest radical power wellWe may see a world like that.
We may not.
And maybe that's not the purposeto change this world.
Maybe the true purpose in ourbeing here is to ascend into the
God self.
This is school.
We're going to learn what worksfor us, what we're going to
(32:14):
follow.
Are we going to withstand thejudgment?
Are we going to stay true towhat we're looking for, seeking
and practicing?
Or are we going to give it up?
to be agreeable, to be liked, tobe in way with it all.
I mean, I think we see thegreatest drama in the world
going on in our government tostand up and not be afraid if
(32:38):
you're standing up to truth.
Because in this case, you mightbe paying a big price.
It takes courage to be with thetruth of love.
It takes courage.
And is that the way we want tolive or do we want to live the
way all these people are aroundus?
And to be held accountable toour past is something that
(32:58):
really bothers me when people doit.
Is if a snapshot was taken atour worst moment, is that what
we want to be told is thedefinition of our life 20 years
ago?
Or is it what we're choosingnow?
And if we're held accountable tothat, I don't want to know those
people.
I don't want to spend socialtime with them.
(33:21):
They're going to go that way.
They can have it.
I'm not going to try and changethem, but I want to stay true to
ascension of the soul and ingoodness and in service.
And it's not always an easypath.
SPEAKER_03 (33:39):
Well, one of the aspects that you're bringing up
here, is redemption.
Is there redemption?
And I consider absolutelythere's redemption, because
otherwise, where's theinspiration going to come from?
If we're convicted of our sinsor transgressions, and I do
consider there's a causal law, alaw that what you put out comes
(34:02):
back, and it's in the perfectorder, in an exact measure, And
we teach this.
Nobody's exempt from this law.
So the highest being is notexempt.
The king is not exempt.
So we're all subject to that.
And I think most people seesomething like that, that we
(34:25):
call it the law ofreversibility.
It's going to come back.
And when it doesn't, it's notnecessary that we're going to
remember it, that we haveforgotten it.
And then when we consider, well,maybe I have past lives and I
have that law of reversibilitytoo, and I don't remember it.
And I say, isn't thatinteresting that we would come
(34:45):
in with something like a veilthat just puts forgetfulness.
And what I help people see ismaybe that's in your favor to
forget what's back there becauseyou are a better person now.
You are more intelligent.
you have evolved in where youcome from.
(35:06):
And if we constantly look backand find the fault, then that's
also something that can be inthe law of reversibility, that
we feel guilty.
And a lot of people have anunworthiness, a sense of I'm no
good.
They say, where'd you get thisfrom?
And they don't know.
And some people do have an earlylife, early childhood that's
(35:31):
terrible.
and what they were around.
No wonder they're having adifficulty from that.
But I find a lot of people, theydon't know where they've got
this guilt, this unworthinessfrom.
It's just there.
I said, well, that's okay.
Let's clear it.
And we teach forgiveness.
(35:52):
And they say, well, what'sforgiveness based on?
We can take your sin away.
There's a power, whatever youcall it.
I consider it is a God power.
But it also is one, and dobetter now, because you're still
subject to the law.
So if you go rob banks, well,you're not immune from the law.
(36:14):
But there's a better way.
There's another way where youcan have what you want, and
others can have what they want,but you don't have to be a liar,
a cheat, you know, someone whohurts other people.
That will only lead to that foryourself.
And the intelligence, do youwant to have hurting somebody,
then it's going to come back toyou?
I don't think you want that.
(36:37):
So the intelligence would bestop doing the things that mess
up a life.
Have a moment of a redemption.
We do baptisms in our church.
We do them in the name of theFather, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit.
Well, I think that's what Johnthe Baptist did.
It's like, there you go.
(36:58):
Right.
And then, well, is it real?
And then people have theexperience like something
happened.
I go, I'm also the philosophy,like a placebo.
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
There we
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
go.
Hey, if it works.
SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
I agree a hundred percent.
I mean, if you go, what does itmatter what you call it?
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
You come out of the baptism and you're treating your
wife and your children a lotbetter.
You're a nicer person.
Hey, I don't care if we couldhypnotize you.
take it and have a better life.
And so a lot of what I see in itis just move it, move the
(37:37):
dynamic in our life and toconsider there is a life after
this world.
That's the main part of what weteach is the soul is not just an
embodiment, not just a lifetime.
I
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
think forgiveness, you mentioned forgiveness and
it's such a powerful word.
thing and i think it really itstarts with yourself doesn't it
i mean you you have to forgiveyourself for the mistakes you've
made but because oftentimeswithout making those mistakes
maybe you wouldn't have come tothe realization of where you are
now
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
yes and and when uh you know i haven't jesus this is
maybe someone's saying no itwasn't over here but in any case
to the degree you forgive youare forgiven But if you forgive
yourself completely, then youcan forgive others.
But if you don't, you know, andI experienced that in myself,
(38:35):
you know, because if I look atwhat other people's behavior is,
I don't necessarily like it.
I may resent, I may judge it.
And I realized I have to watchthat.
I have to keep a vigilance up.
that I don't get into judgmentbecause it's a powerful energy
in and of itself.
(38:56):
It's
SPEAKER_04 (38:56):
attractive.
SPEAKER_03 (38:57):
Whatever we believe, that's going to come back to
you.
There's just a law ofattraction.
I'm good with that.
That's been around for a while.
But it's also the law of karma,whatever you call it.
We're responsible creators.
But you can turn then and go,you can That's good news that
(39:20):
you're responsible for yourlife.
Turn it towards a better life.
What would you like to create?
Start doing those things.
SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
Judgment's very enticing, isn't it?
I mean, our entire culture, ourmedia, everything is designed to
get you to judge.
Yeah.
you know rather than forgiveforgiveness never makes an
appearance on on the eveningnews or rarely does
SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
wonderful uh one of the phrases we use in the
forgiveness process i forgivemyself for judging so and so uh
before i even say i forgive themeven they might have committed
the offense i'm reacting to theoffense and i'm judging it
SPEAKER_04 (40:01):
i
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
want to let that go in myself first i forgive myself
for judging what this is andthen move to forgiving them.
SPEAKER_03 (40:12):
Yeah.
We also teach forgetting.
I
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
like that better.
SPEAKER_03 (40:18):
Don't bring it up.
I have a master's in counseling,so I learned what regression is
as a psychological therapy orwhatever you call it.
And I think there is some value,obviously, to take a look at
what's bothering you.
surface this but not dwell on itwell let's find out about
(40:42):
everything and we'll spend 40sessions and just digging up the
dirt like what purpose is thisif we're not getting into
something like is it clearingsomething else and I think that
was the message with Lot and hisfamily when they were leaving
Sodom and Gomorrah like don'tlook back very powerful message
(41:04):
and then we'll What?
His wife turned into a pillar ofsalt?
I mean, huh?
And I go, okay, but there'sstill a message there.
If you're going to go on andhave a better life, don't spend
time digging up and remembering.
I remember the time you andanybody in a relationship, in
(41:25):
marriage, if you just keepbringing up when I was bothered
when you said this and youdidn't do that, and then what
does that become?
argument a fight you know we'renot i don't want to be with you
or i mean that's like well stopthat change how you're relating
towards the loving and thecaring and yeah there's some
(41:48):
learning to do for sure that weteach this as a classroom this
world
SPEAKER_02 (41:53):
yeah that resonates with me i you know the whole
idea of not looking back assomething i've i've lived most
of my life with i i really Imove on quite well from things
and don't look back.
The hardest things not to lookback on are the things that are
inward.
Those are, you know, the, thepersonal, you know, the personal
judging, the personalforgiveness, like as often it's,
(42:16):
it's much easier I find toforgive others and to forget.
But to, to have the confidencethat, you know, the power of God
is within and, I'm continuing toevolve every day.
I think a lot of people are inthat position as well as they
move through this journey thatwe're all in.
SPEAKER_03 (42:36):
I've often referenced the New Jersey
blessing.
Forget about it.
Do the New Jersey blessing.
That's good.
And it is something like, youmean I can forget about it?
I don't have to remember andthen feel like I have to
flagellate myself or punishmyself for what I did back
(42:58):
there.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Another message that Jesus had that was so beautiful
for me is when you do theforgiveness, it's a new day.
That's what crucifixion toresurrection represents to me.
In resurrection, you're new andyou've gone through all of this
And you're new.
(43:19):
And so you don't want peopleholding you to the past.
But most of all, as you said,actually, you don't want to hold
yourself to it.
To accept and embrace thatyou're really born new.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
It's very beautiful.
I guess I would, you know, Icould talk to you guys all day.
We may have to do anotherepisode or two.
I'd like to kind of step back alittle bit and just talk about,
you know, you mentioned, both ofyou have mentioned John Roger.
You know, I think we would be,the audience would be, would
(43:59):
benefit from learning a littlebit more about John Roger.
I mean, he was the founder ofMSAA, am I correct?
Yes.
Maybe talk a little bit aboutthat, about him and what drew
you both together.
to that message and that you'vecontinued, you know, since his
passing?
SPEAKER_03 (44:21):
Oh, well, his story is, and it's an amazing story.
And there's, you know, a book,the one with Polly Sanderson.
SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
When Are You Coming Home?
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
When Are You Coming Home?
I mean, people went on to themsi.org, msi.org.
website and then look forproducts.
When Are You Coming Home is kindof a biography about him by
somebody who worked with himwhen he was an English, high
school English school teacher.
So he was somebody who became ahigh school English teacher in
(44:55):
Southern California, but he washaving these experiences.
He kind of thought he was goinginsane because he would see
beings, etc., in all kinds ofcapacities.
And then he went to apsychiatrist, or he tried to
talk to people about it.
And for the most part, they weresaying, you need to go see a
doctor or a psychiatrist ifyou're having some serious
(45:20):
delusions type of thing.
That just kept leading to moreand more of his own exploration.
So he would go wherever to seekanswers.
And I think a lot of us havegone through something like that
that are in this kind of amovement.
(45:40):
And then he had a breakthroughin 1963 in particular.
He said from December 3rd to the23rd, including he had a car
accident that he went into acoma for a while.
And he came out of that achanged person.
So his...
his name when he was growing upand he grew up as a Mormon in a
(46:03):
coal mining district of Utah.
So that was a very, you know,down to earth upbringing, but
Mormon.
And he had, you know, he sawthose values, but he knew they
weren't his values.
So he started doing explorationon his own.
And this experience that he hadallowed him to see and know
(46:25):
things that you go, how do youknow that?
And so that one thing led toanother.
People invited him to talk intheir homes.
So the early part was going topeople's homes.
Very simple.
After work, after teachingschool, he would go in the
evenings to people's homes.
And then he started doing thatseveral days a week.
(46:47):
And then one thing led to otherpeople started recording his
talks.
Not him.
He said, I didn't want to forman organization.
I was very much opposed to it.
I didn't want to follow him.
But it just happened.
Can you make me a copy of that?
And then one of his co-workerswho worked as a PE dance
(47:15):
teacher, she's the one who sortof got behind him And then there
was one of his students who'sstill involved.
They're both still involved allthese years later who helped
start the organization in thelate 60s.
So his talks began beingrecorded.
We have a lot of thoserecordings.
1968, then the organizationreally formed around him.
(47:40):
People wanted to...
study with him and and he tookit on and then he learned about
uh how things work uh and i youknow he he says what i teach has
already been here it's right notteaching really anything new i'm
just teaching in a new way and igo that I get.
(48:03):
That's what I would tell people.
I don't know of a betterpractical life teaching than
what he teaches, you know, justabout being a human being.
And then what he knowsspiritually or however you
reference it, his ability tospeak on any subject, going back
(48:25):
or met a person.
who can speak on just aboutanything in terms of fixing your
car.
And it's like, how do you knowthis stuff?
And a lot of times you say, Ijust do.
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
I'd like to say also, having when I first met
him, first time I met himphysically, as he walked towards
me, I went blind and light.
I couldn't see.
I didn't understand it mentally,but I couldn't see him.
It was just...
brilliant light until his handsemerged out of the light to take
(49:02):
my hand.
So I would say from myexperience, which replicated
itself many times, he was alightning rod of waking up.
So verbally, his teaching wasprofound and often so practical.
He was a very practical teacher.
If, for instance, silly example,but if you were being judgmental
(49:27):
of certain picky things in theworld, but you didn't clean your
kitchen or make your bed, Hewould know that and he'd say,
have you ever thought aboutmaking your bed and washing your
dishes?
You know, he would go topractical examples of your
consciousness as reflection, buthe himself carried an energy
that when he walked in the room,the room changed.
(49:51):
So he carried something thatwas, I don't know, like a
lightning rod of connectivity,like a switch.
It's like he'd walk in a roomand there was a switch you had
inside and it just, you left thetime with him illumined.
Maybe he didn't even touch you,but just his presence and what
(50:15):
he carried.
And he was, first time I saw himat that distance, he was a
simple man.
He was not a fancy man.
First time I saw him, I thought,Goodness, his pants are too
short and his socks are white.
You know, because I'd come fromOktenanda, all this, you know,
(50:36):
glorious colors of reds andincense and music.
No, very simple, but...
I've never seen a power like itagain.
That's why, and even justlistening to his seminars, just
listening.
And when John speaks, I hearJohn Roger.
(50:56):
It's like a transmission thatgoes.
These are things that we don'ttalk about a lot, but it just
is.
That transmission of a rod ofpower of spirit comes through,
and you know it by experience.
It's kind of hard to talk aboutbecause it sounds like you could
(51:17):
talk about setting yourself upfor judgment.
Sometimes some things are bestkept sacred and in our
experience, and if it transformsour life to greater loving,
caring, and sharing, that's whatit's about.
SPEAKER_02 (51:35):
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (51:37):
You can imagine how satisfying it is to teach this
around the world.
SPEAKER_02 (51:41):
let's talk about that what is when you say around
the world um let's shed a littlebit more light on that because i
mean i'm i i know what thatmeans but but but tell us tell
our audience a little bit moredetail about what your
experiences are around the worldand the groups of people that
(52:03):
you are touching
SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
Well, we have active groups in obviously Europe,
South America, Australia, not somuch in Asia for whatever
reason, but some, you know, somehere and there.
And that was part of it.
They would invite John Roger inparticular to come.
So he did go to Australia andthen that expanded and There's
(52:30):
some communities in Africa also.
So it's that type of thing wherepeople are.
And then these days, because ofZoom and being able to go
online, then it really hasbecome a worldwide movement.
There's much more peopleparticipating online typically
than in person.
(52:50):
We have a seminary, and this wasvery important to John Roger,
And he wanted it to be aseminary of life's teachings.
So it's a college of philosophyalso.
And he would say, truth is alivewherever you experience it and
in whoever you experience it.
(53:12):
So he said, we steal from thebest.
He would say, I take truth.
And that was one of the thingsthat was, flung at him, you
know, that he was just copying.
He was mimicking wherever he gotthis teaching or that teaching.
And he was going and looking atwhat other groups were doing.
(53:35):
And you'd say, well, he'd betaking from here.
But from a level of he was also,I don't know how to do this.
You know, it was like a giftcame upon him.
in 1963, particularly in thattime period of December when he
was in the coma, where he justhad knowing, he had awareness
(53:56):
about people and then he woulddo what he called light studies
with people or just talk to themabout their consciousness and
talk to them about past livesand be able to have insight that
was bewildering.
How would you possibly know thatabout me and be able to tell me
about that?
And he didn't try to explain itbecause it's like, unless you
(54:17):
know how this works, you know,I'm just going to tell you.
And that was, you know, powerfulas well.
And then we recorded his talksthrough the years.
And then he passed over in 1914,so a little over 10 years ago.
(54:38):
And by that time, I was alreadydesignated as president.
the successor of the mysticaltraveler consciousness, the keys
to what that is.
And I would say somethingsimilar.
I'm not something like a guru ora great teacher or you know all
(54:59):
these things.
I know them in the moment, andthen people often say, well, how
do you know that?
And I just often say, I justknow it.
I know it in a way I can tellyou.
And you go, well, do you havethat in a personal way?
It's like, no, it's not myexperience.
I'm just telling you what I see.
Or it's sometimes just like animpression.
(55:21):
And I ask people, do you have oryou give me permission to tell
you something that I can't proveit to you?
So if you're looking for that,it's probably better if I don't
tell you.
And that's how this works.
So he calls it the mysticaltraveler.
And even that was like, how didhe come up with that?
(55:43):
He was for a while looking for,what do I call this?
And really coming in withsomething, well, what did Jesus
call it?
Or what did Zoroaster call it?
I mean, that there were many whowere mystics, if we go back, and
known.
Some of them weren't very known.
when
SPEAKER_02 (56:02):
you say call it are you referring to the knowing
SPEAKER_03 (56:06):
knowing the consciousness yes and he teaches
like he doesn't own it it's notlike I possess this and nobody
else does no it's very much auniversal consciousness and he
teaches and we teach it aseverybody has this consciousness
it's just how awake are youright and then you can you can
(56:30):
do things like a build areligion, so you'd say, well,
the Hindus, I mean, they hadthings and the Upanishads.
And it's like, yes, yes.
And then I look at like, well,what is it now?
This is really what's important,that things do evolve and do we
evolve with it so that we have aliving God, not one that died
(56:54):
2,000 years ago.
You know, I remember having aconversation a leader in, he was
also a medical doctor inPakistan and Afghanistan.
And so he was very muchknowledgeable and devout as a
(57:15):
Muslim.
And I said to him, do youconsider that there could be
another prophet after Muhammad?
He said, absolutely not.
No.
And I said, well, doesn't Allahdoesn't Allah maybe would let
somebody else and he was justcompletely like that no that's
(57:37):
not going to happen and for meit's very different like that
that there we can be a Christconsciousness we teach that so
and I think Jesus said it wellyou can do this and greater
SPEAKER_02 (57:50):
what do you mean greater
SPEAKER_03 (57:52):
greater I said you will do And I think we're
finding out what that is.
But, you know, he set a verypowerful example.
What would you be willing to doin service?
And then let's consider he didhave powerful gifts of knowledge
and wisdom.
But he, look, who we drew to himwere very simple people.
(58:13):
And I think that was part of themessage.
And that's what we talk about.
You don't have to be elite andelect and you're better than
them in, you know, you don'twant to be with them because
they're beneath you.
No, it's as much more, it comesas ordinariness.
We often talk about that.
(58:34):
That's the condition prior towaking up to God.
You're just so ordinary, likedown to earth, simple being who
happens to be conscious ofsomething that transcends this
world.
SPEAKER_02 (58:49):
That's beautiful.
well that may be a great placefor us to wrap this i'm going to
call this our initialconversation because if you guys
are willing i would love to tohave you both back at another
time i know we're going to speaklee in a couple weeks um but i
i'd like to yeah i i typicallyhave certain guests that i
resonate with and i have them onseveral times i think you guys
(59:11):
definitely qualify as that ithink our audience is going to
love this this episode and uh Ithink there's a really strong
message that you have here thatI'd love to be a part of sharing
with others, if you're willing.
SPEAKER_04 (59:23):
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (59:23):
yes.
Yeah, this is my ministry, and Ido it in a consciousness of
service, so I don't look at itlike I get paid to do it and
then it's a duty.
No, I don't have to, and I wantto.
So that's my message back toyou, Ashley.
I want to, and I'm sure Leewants to.
SPEAKER_01 (59:39):
We love being with you, too.
SPEAKER_02 (59:40):
Wonderful.
Well, I'm going to hit pause onthe record.
If you guys could just stay onfor a little bit, I'd like to
just wrap this up off camera.
But thank you again, JohnMorton, Lee Taylor Young from
the Movement of Spiritual InnerAwareness.
And the website, John, ismsia.org?
SPEAKER_03 (59:59):
Yes.
And there's another one I havespecifically called
johnmortonministries.org.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Okay.
Mine would be lty.org.
Dot com.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:18):
Lty.com.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00:20):
Lty.com.
Thank you so much, both of you.
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SPEAKER_00 (01:02:32):
Thanks for listening to Ashley on Nothing But The
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Welcome to Ashley On, your one-stop podcast where
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SPEAKER_02 (00:25):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Today's show is with John Mortonand Lee Taylor Young from the
Movement of Spiritual InnerAwareness.
MSIA helps you discover who youtruly are inside.
They teach soul transcendence,becoming aware of yourself as a
soul and as being one with God,not as a theory, but as healthy
living reality.
(00:46):
Their approach focuses on how toincorporate spirituality into
your everyday life in atangible, workable way.
They call it practicalspirituality.
It's a wonderful show with Johnand Lee.
I hope you enjoy it.
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Hello, John Morton and LeeTaylor Young.
Nice to meet you both again andto see you both.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show.
I'm honored to have you heretoday.
speaking with you and it'sreally a blessing for our
(03:17):
listeners to get a chance totalk to you both as well.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:20):
Yes, it's been a pleasure to meet you in Boulder
and we know your son.
So Jackson and your wife aswell.
And so we're just glad to comein and see if we can do
something interesting andwhatever else comes forward in
your focus and whatever youwould like.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Great.
Well, thank you so much.
Why don't we just start byintroducing yourselves and the
movement of spiritual innerawareness.
Let's start there and talk aboutyourselves and your backgrounds
and that and the mission.
And we'll just kind of see wherethis conversation takes us.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
Okay.
Okay.
I would like my wife, Lee,because actually I think she was
involved...
with the Movement of SpiritualInner Awareness, which is an
organization founded by a mannamed John Roger.
I would consider that's 1971officially when it became a
church, a nonprofit, but also afocus that has no denominations
(04:28):
and it's considered in a wayuniversal, philosophical.
Here you go, what would you say?
SPEAKER_01 (04:35):
Well, I would say that...
meeting our mutual teacher, JohnRoger, was beyond a life
transformational beginning.
I met him first, you could sayalmost by accident, but I now
know in retrospect, not at all,in 1971 in Santa Barbara, when I
(04:55):
was very much committed toMuktananda.
I was involved with Siddha Yoga,Baba Muktananda, and I was
introducing Baba.
I was very shy, so I was the oneBaba always chose to introduce
him, which was terrifying.
And I would say, are you reallysure?
(05:16):
He'd say, he'd look, give me thelook like, yes.
And so I knew if it felt likewalking the plank or into a
fire, I would do it for thatreason, for a higher purpose.
I was doing a sound check tointroduce him.
The doors of this church wherethis was going to take place
(05:37):
opened and down the aisle came agentleman with two friends
coming came right up to thestage, put out his hand, and he
introduced himself, and he said,hello, my name is John Roger.
And I shook his hand, and Irealized in retrospect that
that's when it really began.
I met him again in 1973, and Irealized this was my teacher,
(06:00):
and that all teachers are soincredibly valuable.
All teachers lead us where we'reto go.
And when I found John Roger, itwas...
you know i've never looked backnor have i ever seen any guide
now inner as he's passed fromthis world more potent in
(06:23):
guiding me spiritually and now ihave the blessing of being with
and working with uh john mortonwho carries on john rogers work
around the world so it has beenan amazing life of learning
growth I realized I've beencalled all the way along to
(06:46):
every choice, whether Iconsciously knew it or not.
I often more in retrospect, Irealized I was perfectly called
from my soul to my next momentof growth.
And it just never stops.
It never stops.
And being married and in supportof this magnificent being, Every
(07:10):
day is school.
Every day is school.
And I chose it.
I chose the hot seat and the hotladder, but I'm climbing and I
love it.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Well, it sounds like you're doing great.
And it looks like you're doinggreat too.
So I thank you again for sharingthat.
And John, why don't you tell usabout yourself too?
SPEAKER_03 (07:32):
All right.
Well, I'll pick up what youasked about in some ways
describing myself.
What is the movement ofspiritual awareness?
And so for me, I remember somekey moments in my life.
For some reason, I expected thatwhen I would graduate from
college, and I did, from UCDavis, in 1972, that I would
(07:58):
know what I was doing.
I would know where I want tolive.
I would know what work I wouldbe doing, maybe where I want to
raise a family, things likethis.
And then when I really got closeto graduation, I realized, if
anything, I was moredisillusioned about what was
going to happen in my life.
I really didn't know.
(08:19):
So I was probably amongst manyof my peers in a search.
So that that's one part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
It's very relatable.
SPEAKER_03 (08:28):
Yeah.
And I really didn't know what amI looking for?
And I didn't even know what thatwas.
So I was going to lots ofgroups, uh, just to see, well,
what does this one do?
What is that one doing?
Um, and not really findinganything that really pulled me
in.
So I would immerse myself.
Um, so that, that did lead to,you know, uh, let's see, when
(08:52):
was that?
1974, a couple of years later,when I was a park ranger for the
state of California.
And one of the other parkrangers just said what he was
doing lately.
And he mentioned spiritualawareness seminars.
And I was like, what's that?
Went to somebody's home, had anamazing experience, but I didn't
really understand theexperience, but it was very
(09:13):
powerful.
And then that created aninterest.
And let's see, that's 74.
Then 1978, I had someexperiences leading up to going
to work with John Roger upclose, personal, on his personal
staff, traveling with him allover the world for years.
And that led to me actuallydoing what is the succession of
(09:40):
his work.
So that's one way to look atwhat I do.
And it's really about soulawareness and that the soul is
the true self.
It's the spiritual nature of whowe are.
Once we get onto that, then ourlife becomes something that
makes more sense for sure.
That doesn't mean we understandeverything, but it certainly
(10:00):
gives us purpose.
And it's an inner directedmovement.
We don't have a mission.
We don't have something like wehave to convert humanity to
this.
It's much more individual.
we often say, don't believethis.
You need to have the experience.
(10:20):
Have the experience.
And there's a lot about that.
We teach something calledspiritual exercise.
And it's about just waking upinside and calling on God's
name.
So we do initiations into God'snames.
And a lot of us should say,well, they do that in this group
or that organization or that'swhat the Buddhists do.
(10:42):
And We really, at the core,consider ourselves followers of
the Christ, and then thatbecomes something like, well,
you mean the one in the Bibleand the Gospels?
It's like, well, not necessarilythat way, so we're not
conventional.
And often organizations or otherpeople in organizations call us
(11:04):
a cult or something like that.
It's like, okay, but maybe whatJesus did was a cult.
Right.
you know, what is a cult?
And if it's cult, I like theword cultivate.
It's like, yeah, the seeds areplanted.
Are we going to raise the fruitsand have a heart?
So make it as simple aspossible.
(11:24):
And then we can go anywhere withwhatever you want to look at,
Ashley.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, I'd like to go further on this.
I mean, I'm, you know, I, I was,and I may have mentioned this to
you when we met in Boulder, um,My own personal experience, I
was raised under the fear of Godmindset.
Half of the family wasMethodist, half of the family
(11:53):
was Baptist.
And we had to go to church everySunday and Sunday school in the
summers.
And I never understood it.
I never got it because why wouldyou want to be scared of God?
It just, it never took.
And so as soon as I got oldenough to make my own decisions
to never go back to church, Inever went back because it just
(12:18):
turned me off completely.
Now I have a healthy respect forGod and spirit.
I love God.
I love my life.
I'm grateful to God every day.
I've been blessed beyondimagine.
And we raised, you mentioned myson Jackson.
(12:38):
We raised him in the Catholicenvironment primarily because
where he was growing up, wedidn't have, you know, the
school systems weren't thatgreat.
And we tried a regular privateschool that wasn't that great.
We really had heard wonderfulthings about the local Catholic
(12:59):
school.
And so we put him into that andmy wife and I really wanted him
to be, you know, in addition towhat we were teaching him, we
wanted him to have anunderstanding of, of God from a
religious perspective so that hecould make his own decisions.
Um, and we kind of stayed withthat as we moved from the
Midwest to Colorado, um, becauseit was easy to keep him in the
(13:21):
same day to day routines.
You know, the Catholic schoolsystem is basically the same
everywhere you go.
So when we moved, we thought,okay, why, why disrupt his, his,
his peace.
Uh, and so we kept him in thatsystem, but you know, we, we
really have never been, youknow, as a family, um,
(13:42):
denominational when it comes to,to religion and, and spirit.
And so I would like for you tomaybe expand a little bit
because what you're talkingabout, um, spiritual awareness,
I'm hoping it resonates with alot of people who are, um, know
listening to this who maybe areare missing something in their
(14:03):
lives um or you know or maybehave been turned off from
organized religion much like iwas i can't believe that i'm
alone in that experience um andso i would love for you to share
just to you know go let's go alittle deeper on what is it
exactly that you're helpingfolks um find and achieve in
(14:26):
their life with with themovement of spiritual inner
awareness
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I'm just so drawn and touched to your story about
your childhood because I had adifferent one, but one of the
things that I've learned is I'ma bit of a scholar.
I like to go back and look atscripture.
I'm not a Bible person, but I'minterested in what has put in
motion such significant systemsof spiritual thought.
(14:54):
And What I see is that the OldTestament up till Moses, who
their God was Yahweh, Jehovah.
He was fierce, judgmental, andMoses used this terror to kind
of work with his people with anorder of law, because he was
(15:14):
dealing with some say 500,000immigrants from Egypt, that he
was in charge of socializing andguiding.
And that sort of fear of God gotvery input into a system.
And that was a covenant.
The 10 laws are a covenant withGod.
(15:36):
And then we go to Jesus, it's anew covenant, the law of grace,
love.
So Jesus said, I'm here tofulfill the law.
But then he brought a newcovenant, which was love and
grace.
If you go to the book of John,he that lives in God lives in
(15:57):
love.
He that lives in love is attunedto God.
Now you have, in a sense, a newGod, almost a new quality.
that people are being introducedto through the christ to love
your neighbor as yourself tocare to serve and to love god
with all your heart body mindand soul and your neighbor the
(16:19):
same this is a whole new worldof relating to life which What
they did in the New Testament,what religion did with it is
another story.
It's what man does with thesethings, not what God may be
saying.
And I think what MSIA does isawakens people.
(16:40):
They are that God inside.
They are that love inside andthe authority for true
ascension.
is inside and this is what johnteaches this is what john
communicates all over the worldis waking people up to the
authority of their hearts andtheir souls that they're the
(17:01):
source of that loving thatcontentment that inspiration
it's not in law in the endbecause then you become you
cease to attune to your ownauthority of spirit.
You are looking for something tointercede, which is essentially
(17:22):
a man.
And that's, you know, Jesusupset everybody by telling
people, ye are gods.
It's like, wake up.
You have this.
Those Pharisees and Sadduceesdid not like that, you know,
because it took away theirpower.
(17:43):
And if there was one thing thatsoul transcendence that John
teaches, it's an empowerment inthe spirit.
So people become so full of lovebecause they love themselves.
They find that golden side thatis pure love and live from that
place.
Isn't that what it is?
SPEAKER_03 (18:06):
She did very good.
just obviously of what we do andthen demonstrated that even
though she says that I'm not aBible person, she knows a lot
about the Bible.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
clearly.
SPEAKER_03 (18:17):
She's somebody who can do that, can read very
in-depth books and informationand then speak to it very
powerfully.
You know, and I also look atthis as our natural ability As I
see it, it's in a processreferred to as a discovery and
(18:41):
exploration and adventure.
That's really what life is inthis world.
I look to answers and Icertainly was like anybody, I
think, seeking like, who am I?
Where did I come from?
What is this world?
If we don't ask those questions,like, well, then tell me if
you're an authority on what isthis world?
(19:01):
What's its purpose?
How did we get here?
A lot of that's tremendouslymysterious.
And then is there life afterdeath?
You know, and who's an authorityon that?
So if people have theexperiences, and there are many,
many people, I don't know whatthe percentages are, but there
(19:21):
are huge numbers of people dohave experiences that are not of
this world.
And then you can say, well,you're hallucinating or You're
imagining that.
Well, that's just because youdon't have the experience.
So why are you an authority ifyou don't know what I'm seeing
or experiencing that's not inthis world?
And I look at that, that that'sreally much more something like
(19:47):
logical or reasonable that Thereare other worlds with life,
intelligent life, maybe muchmore intelligent than human
beings in this planet.
And just to consider, well, howwould that be ordered?
Well, that's another mystery.
And I look at it that there'shigher consciousness.
(20:07):
And if I was going to choose whowould I want to associate with,
I'd want to associate with themost intelligent beings, and
then what would they be tellingus by their intelligence?
And I look at, in myconsciousness, the most
intelligent way to be is loving.
If anybody said, well, what do Ido?
And I'd say, well, just find away to be loving.
(20:29):
I'm not saying that's easy, butit is what will always bring the
best opportunities, the bestchoices in how I have
experienced it.
And then we're learning how toovercome what we call the lower
nature, the basic nature in ourconsciousness.
And I think there's a lot ofevidence that we do evolve.
(20:50):
We have evolved from a lowernature.
Then is it creative?
Did man come from clay?
Some powerful god from somewherejust made a man and then said,
oh, you want to help me?
I'm going to take your rib andI'm going to make you help me.
(21:10):
Well, you know, I don't findthat very reasonable and I don't
understand.
It's a very mysteriousexplanation of how did we all
get here.
But I do look at like maybe it'ssomething mysterious.
That's okay.
But more importantly, what do weall individually do with our
life?
And then I found, well, I wantto do something to make my life
(21:33):
better.
And I was inclined to help makelife better, help others.
I knew that at a pretty earlyage.
I wanted to help others, whichled to...
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
Feels good, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:45):
Life of service, yes.
There's something about it thatif we do something to make our
situation better just in ourlife, and then if we can extend
that to help others have abetter life, I think if we were
doing that more, this worldwould be a lot different than it
is.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
You know, on that note, if people also with what
he does to kind of ignite peopleto that awakening that they
carry it inside and how to findit, I think that's a lot of what
the teaching is.
It's a given in our way ofexperiencing that the soul is
(22:25):
here in everyone and the spiritis everywhere.
is in everyone, to what degreeit's awakened and enlightened is
our choice and our calling ornot.
And I've always liked to saythat choice is a human being's
superpower.
We get to choose everything,including how we think, how we
(22:48):
feel.
Are we letting feelings be theauthority in our life?
We feel good, we feel bad, andwe're going to go with that.
Or if we're not feeling so well,is it a moment of choice where
we can say, I'm going to takethe authority over how I'm going
to choose joy?
I'm going to choose.
(23:08):
And there's a response insidethat recognizes these positive
things that wants to come inallegiance with it.
But we're the ones that have totake the authority to guide it
to that.
John also teaches something, asdid John Roger and an MSIA, that
we carry, in a sense, the wordswe use and words we know are
(23:30):
limited.
to true spiritual experience.
It's almost a paltry attempt todescribe something way beyond
words, but the teaching that weall have an inner master inside,
that the guidance is foundwithin.
So how do we go through all thevoices that affect us?
(23:50):
Are they mental?
Are they emotional?
Are they habitual?
That are leading us intobehavior that we may like in the
end and we may not like.
But how can we head it off atthe curb and be the authority to
go this way?
And that really takes practice.
That takes discipline andchoice.
(24:11):
And those choices and thosedisciplines are a lot of what
MSIA does.
provides is how do we start torespond to these questions?
Why am I here?
What am I here for?
There's a lot of guidance inMSIA that's profound and I think
(24:34):
reflects a lot of what peopleoften think inside.
So when you read it, you go, Iknow that.
I know that.
It's like a lighting up ratherthan a church with a system of
thought telling you what tothink, telling you what to feel
or behave.
It's inside you and you end upgoing, I'm in allegiance with
(24:58):
this because this is goodness ofmy soul.
Well,
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
that's what Jesus said, right?
I mean, the kingdom of heavenresides within you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:05):
He never said it was out here.
Not ever.
And powers that be in those daysreally didn't like that.
SPEAKER_03 (25:14):
And there's another aspect of his life and teaching,
and it's quite central to whatwe teach, but we also teach
about the Buddha consciousness.
Muhammad is somebody we look atas had authority, had a teaching
that was very Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (25:34):
They all converge into love, right?
I mean, that's where theconvergence comes together,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:39):
Yes, and I think it's important that people, like
each person really considers,well, what am I led to?
What am I inspired by?
But to look at what is yourvision?
So if your vision is somethingthat is inclusive of others, so
you would want a better life forothers also.
(26:00):
And is there a way to contributethat so that we have a better
life?
I think that's one of thepurposes Like how do we
incarnate into this world?
We often refer to it asembodiment because it's much
more about having a body for atemporary time.
And then there's re-embodimentor reincarnation, whatever
(26:23):
that's called.
But until somebody knows that ina direct way, it's just
information or, oh, that's justa theory.
And I don't believe in it.
Okay.
But if you take a stance, like,well, I don't believe it.
That's not possible.
I don't like that.
Watch out, because you may beclosing yourself off to what it
(26:44):
is.
And the overwhelming aspects ofwhat I see and who we are is
it's a beautiful story.
It's something that's alreadydirected very powerfully by
whatever you want to call thesource.
So I said, well, let's use God,and that's a good name until God
(27:04):
says, well, no, I have thisname.
And I look at it that way.
Okay, we can find somewhere tostart.
And I often tell people, youknow, you can pray.
And they go, well, I don't knowhow to pray.
I often find people, like, noone really taught me to pray.
My parents didn't teach me howto pray.
I went to Lutheran Church, whichwas my father's church, and But
(27:28):
it was not every week.
So we were like Easter Sunday orholidays.
And then my mom was raisedBaptist, Southern Baptist.
And that was also different.
And she would have some stories,you know, about.
SPEAKER_02 (27:42):
I know all about that.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
Who was at the pulpit and what they were saying
at the pulpit.
It was not exactly encouragingmessages.
Like starting with, you aresinners.
And here, let's go into that.
Like, yeah, punishment.
And so I look at, you know, ifwe look at God is love, and this
is in John, in the Gospel ofJohn.
(28:06):
It starts that way.
It just starts there.
God is love.
And that's a beautiful message.
It
SPEAKER_02 (28:13):
really is.
UNKNOWN (28:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:16):
And one of our primary teachings is from John
Roger is out of God comes allthings.
So we have a one creator and Godloves all of his creation.
You know, there's people atInstagram, what do you mean?
You love violence and you lovehatred.
And well, how are we going tochange it if we don't somehow
(28:40):
love it as the greatest power tochange it?
And that's what I would say topeople.
It's intelligent to love,because it's the power that has
the most power to change things.
And I think Jesus, and manyothers, I mean, we could take
many examples of brilliantbeings, we'll call them saints,
(29:00):
call them anointed ones.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Avatars.
SPEAKER_03 (29:04):
Yeah, you know, what did they teach by their life,
that their life was demonstratedby how they lived, and often
their choices were verydifficult.
that they weren't popular andthere was tremendous resistance,
if not against us.
And they often paid prices, bigprices for how they lived.
(29:24):
And I look at like, well, stillin that world where it's not
easy.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
Well, I think it also, I'd love your thoughts on
this because I've run into thiseven with just friends over the
years.
I mean, this idea that thekingdom of heaven resides within
us and we are all God in our ownway.
We have the divine spark.
Not everybody responds to thatvery well, not just the
(29:50):
Pharisees.
I mean, even today, you know,people I talk to who maybe knew
me back when, you know, backwhen I maybe wasn't the greatest
person, you know, and theythink, well, what a hypocrite
that person is for saying that,right?
Because how can someone who didX, Y, and Z actually be God?
And it takes a, it takes a highdegree of personal
(30:13):
responsibility to go with thatmessage and to then live and to,
and to maybe change your life ifyou need to, or to take on that,
that responsibility.
And I think a lot of people justdon't want to go there.
And I'd love to just know yourthoughts on that and what you've
seen, if you've seen similarsituation in your travels with
(30:35):
people.
And if it's just the, it's soeasy to avoid that
responsibility, but if youreally want to think about what
this means, it creates aresponsibility.
That's that's quite awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
One of my favorite prophets is Jeremiah.
And the reason is notnecessarily because of the
context of the history around itwith Israel, but he was a truth
teller.
And God was alive in him andignited when he was around 12
years old and went into thetemple.
(31:07):
He started seeing things.
He started knowing things.
And he was being asked to speakand he was shy and he was
afraid.
But he's one of the greatestexamples of when the majority
around you does not agree withyou.
He was tortured, all thesethings, but he always stood up
to what he knew to be the way,which was love.
(31:30):
and he was a forerunner insaying the law of god is written
in your heart so go inside towhere it's truly written in the
heart so i think these peopleall through time are the
minority we're the minority inthis world i mean just look at
our world we're the minority wewe believe that love is the way
(31:54):
the greatest radical power wellWe may see a world like that.
We may not.
And maybe that's not the purposeto change this world.
Maybe the true purpose in ourbeing here is to ascend into the
God self.
This is school.
We're going to learn what worksfor us, what we're going to
(32:14):
follow.
Are we going to withstand thejudgment?
Are we going to stay true towhat we're looking for, seeking
and practicing?
Or are we going to give it up?
to be agreeable, to be liked, tobe in way with it all.
I mean, I think we see thegreatest drama in the world
going on in our government tostand up and not be afraid if
(32:38):
you're standing up to truth.
Because in this case, you mightbe paying a big price.
It takes courage to be with thetruth of love.
It takes courage.
And is that the way we want tolive or do we want to live the
way all these people are aroundus?
And to be held accountable toour past is something that
(32:58):
really bothers me when people doit.
Is if a snapshot was taken atour worst moment, is that what
we want to be told is thedefinition of our life 20 years
ago?
Or is it what we're choosingnow?
And if we're held accountable tothat, I don't want to know those
people.
I don't want to spend socialtime with them.
(33:21):
They're going to go that way.
They can have it.
I'm not going to try and changethem, but I want to stay true to
ascension of the soul and ingoodness and in service.
And it's not always an easypath.
SPEAKER_03 (33:39):
Well, one of the aspects that you're bringing up
here, is redemption.
Is there redemption?
And I consider absolutelythere's redemption, because
otherwise, where's theinspiration going to come from?
If we're convicted of our sinsor transgressions, and I do
consider there's a causal law, alaw that what you put out comes
(34:02):
back, and it's in the perfectorder, in an exact measure, And
we teach this.
Nobody's exempt from this law.
So the highest being is notexempt.
The king is not exempt.
So we're all subject to that.
And I think most people seesomething like that, that we
(34:25):
call it the law ofreversibility.
It's going to come back.
And when it doesn't, it's notnecessary that we're going to
remember it, that we haveforgotten it.
And then when we consider, well,maybe I have past lives and I
have that law of reversibilitytoo, and I don't remember it.
And I say, isn't thatinteresting that we would come
(34:45):
in with something like a veilthat just puts forgetfulness.
And what I help people see ismaybe that's in your favor to
forget what's back there becauseyou are a better person now.
You are more intelligent.
you have evolved in where youcome from.
(35:06):
And if we constantly look backand find the fault, then that's
also something that can be inthe law of reversibility, that
we feel guilty.
And a lot of people have anunworthiness, a sense of I'm no
good.
They say, where'd you get thisfrom?
And they don't know.
And some people do have an earlylife, early childhood that's
(35:31):
terrible.
and what they were around.
No wonder they're having adifficulty from that.
But I find a lot of people, theydon't know where they've got
this guilt, this unworthinessfrom.
It's just there.
I said, well, that's okay.
Let's clear it.
And we teach forgiveness.
(35:52):
And they say, well, what'sforgiveness based on?
We can take your sin away.
There's a power, whatever youcall it.
I consider it is a God power.
But it also is one, and dobetter now, because you're still
subject to the law.
So if you go rob banks, well,you're not immune from the law.
(36:14):
But there's a better way.
There's another way where youcan have what you want, and
others can have what they want,but you don't have to be a liar,
a cheat, you know, someone whohurts other people.
That will only lead to that foryourself.
And the intelligence, do youwant to have hurting somebody,
then it's going to come back toyou?
I don't think you want that.
(36:37):
So the intelligence would bestop doing the things that mess
up a life.
Have a moment of a redemption.
We do baptisms in our church.
We do them in the name of theFather, the Son, and the Holy
Spirit.
Well, I think that's what Johnthe Baptist did.
It's like, there you go.
(36:58):
Right.
And then, well, is it real?
And then people have theexperience like something
happened.
I go, I'm also the philosophy,like a placebo.
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
There we
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
go.
Hey, if it works.
SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
I agree a hundred percent.
I mean, if you go, what does itmatter what you call it?
SPEAKER_03 (37:17):
You come out of the baptism and you're treating your
wife and your children a lotbetter.
You're a nicer person.
Hey, I don't care if we couldhypnotize you.
take it and have a better life.
And so a lot of what I see in itis just move it, move the
(37:37):
dynamic in our life and toconsider there is a life after
this world.
That's the main part of what weteach is the soul is not just an
embodiment, not just a lifetime.
I
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
think forgiveness, you mentioned forgiveness and
it's such a powerful word.
thing and i think it really itstarts with yourself doesn't it
i mean you you have to forgiveyourself for the mistakes you've
made but because oftentimeswithout making those mistakes
maybe you wouldn't have come tothe realization of where you are
now
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
yes and and when uh you know i haven't jesus this is
maybe someone's saying no itwasn't over here but in any case
to the degree you forgive youare forgiven But if you forgive
yourself completely, then youcan forgive others.
But if you don't, you know, andI experienced that in myself,
(38:35):
you know, because if I look atwhat other people's behavior is,
I don't necessarily like it.
I may resent, I may judge it.
And I realized I have to watchthat.
I have to keep a vigilance up.
that I don't get into judgmentbecause it's a powerful energy
in and of itself.
(38:56):
It's
SPEAKER_04 (38:56):
attractive.
SPEAKER_03 (38:57):
Whatever we believe, that's going to come back to
you.
There's just a law ofattraction.
I'm good with that.
That's been around for a while.
But it's also the law of karma,whatever you call it.
We're responsible creators.
But you can turn then and go,you can That's good news that
(39:20):
you're responsible for yourlife.
Turn it towards a better life.
What would you like to create?
Start doing those things.
SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
Judgment's very enticing, isn't it?
I mean, our entire culture, ourmedia, everything is designed to
get you to judge.
Yeah.
you know rather than forgiveforgiveness never makes an
appearance on on the eveningnews or rarely does
SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
wonderful uh one of the phrases we use in the
forgiveness process i forgivemyself for judging so and so uh
before i even say i forgive themeven they might have committed
the offense i'm reacting to theoffense and i'm judging it
SPEAKER_04 (40:01):
i
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
want to let that go in myself first i forgive myself
for judging what this is andthen move to forgiving them.
SPEAKER_03 (40:12):
Yeah.
We also teach forgetting.
I
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
like that better.
SPEAKER_03 (40:18):
Don't bring it up.
I have a master's in counseling,so I learned what regression is
as a psychological therapy orwhatever you call it.
And I think there is some value,obviously, to take a look at
what's bothering you.
surface this but not dwell on itwell let's find out about
(40:42):
everything and we'll spend 40sessions and just digging up the
dirt like what purpose is thisif we're not getting into
something like is it clearingsomething else and I think that
was the message with Lot and hisfamily when they were leaving
Sodom and Gomorrah like don'tlook back very powerful message
(41:04):
and then we'll What?
His wife turned into a pillar ofsalt?
I mean, huh?
And I go, okay, but there'sstill a message there.
If you're going to go on andhave a better life, don't spend
time digging up and remembering.
I remember the time you andanybody in a relationship, in
(41:25):
marriage, if you just keepbringing up when I was bothered
when you said this and youdidn't do that, and then what
does that become?
argument a fight you know we'renot i don't want to be with you
or i mean that's like well stopthat change how you're relating
towards the loving and thecaring and yeah there's some
(41:48):
learning to do for sure that weteach this as a classroom this
world
SPEAKER_02 (41:53):
yeah that resonates with me i you know the whole
idea of not looking back assomething i've i've lived most
of my life with i i really Imove on quite well from things
and don't look back.
The hardest things not to lookback on are the things that are
inward.
Those are, you know, the, thepersonal, you know, the personal
judging, the personalforgiveness, like as often it's,
(42:16):
it's much easier I find toforgive others and to forget.
But to, to have the confidencethat, you know, the power of God
is within and, I'm continuing toevolve every day.
I think a lot of people are inthat position as well as they
move through this journey thatwe're all in.
SPEAKER_03 (42:36):
I've often referenced the New Jersey
blessing.
Forget about it.
Do the New Jersey blessing.
That's good.
And it is something like, youmean I can forget about it?
I don't have to remember andthen feel like I have to
flagellate myself or punishmyself for what I did back
(42:58):
there.
SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Another message that Jesus had that was so beautiful
for me is when you do theforgiveness, it's a new day.
That's what crucifixion toresurrection represents to me.
In resurrection, you're new andyou've gone through all of this
And you're new.
(43:19):
And so you don't want peopleholding you to the past.
But most of all, as you said,actually, you don't want to hold
yourself to it.
To accept and embrace thatyou're really born new.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
It's very beautiful.
I guess I would, you know, Icould talk to you guys all day.
We may have to do anotherepisode or two.
I'd like to kind of step back alittle bit and just talk about,
you know, you mentioned, both ofyou have mentioned John Roger.
You know, I think we would be,the audience would be, would
(43:59):
benefit from learning a littlebit more about John Roger.
I mean, he was the founder ofMSAA, am I correct?
Yes.
Maybe talk a little bit aboutthat, about him and what drew
you both together.
to that message and that you'vecontinued, you know, since his
passing?
SPEAKER_03 (44:21):
Oh, well, his story is, and it's an amazing story.
And there's, you know, a book,the one with Polly Sanderson.
SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
When Are You Coming Home?
SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
When Are You Coming Home?
I mean, people went on to themsi.org, msi.org.
website and then look forproducts.
When Are You Coming Home is kindof a biography about him by
somebody who worked with himwhen he was an English, high
school English school teacher.
So he was somebody who became ahigh school English teacher in
(44:55):
Southern California, but he washaving these experiences.
He kind of thought he was goinginsane because he would see
beings, etc., in all kinds ofcapacities.
And then he went to apsychiatrist, or he tried to
talk to people about it.
And for the most part, they weresaying, you need to go see a
doctor or a psychiatrist ifyou're having some serious
(45:20):
delusions type of thing.
That just kept leading to moreand more of his own exploration.
So he would go wherever to seekanswers.
And I think a lot of us havegone through something like that
that are in this kind of amovement.
(45:40):
And then he had a breakthroughin 1963 in particular.
He said from December 3rd to the23rd, including he had a car
accident that he went into acoma for a while.
And he came out of that achanged person.
So his...
his name when he was growing upand he grew up as a Mormon in a
(46:03):
coal mining district of Utah.
So that was a very, you know,down to earth upbringing, but
Mormon.
And he had, you know, he sawthose values, but he knew they
weren't his values.
So he started doing explorationon his own.
And this experience that he hadallowed him to see and know
(46:25):
things that you go, how do youknow that?
And so that one thing led toanother.
People invited him to talk intheir homes.
So the early part was going topeople's homes.
Very simple.
After work, after teachingschool, he would go in the
evenings to people's homes.
And then he started doing thatseveral days a week.
(46:47):
And then one thing led to otherpeople started recording his
talks.
Not him.
He said, I didn't want to forman organization.
I was very much opposed to it.
I didn't want to follow him.
But it just happened.
Can you make me a copy of that?
And then one of his co-workerswho worked as a PE dance
(47:15):
teacher, she's the one who sortof got behind him And then there
was one of his students who'sstill involved.
They're both still involved allthese years later who helped
start the organization in thelate 60s.
So his talks began beingrecorded.
We have a lot of thoserecordings.
1968, then the organizationreally formed around him.
(47:40):
People wanted to...
study with him and and he tookit on and then he learned about
uh how things work uh and i youknow he he says what i teach has
already been here it's right notteaching really anything new i'm
just teaching in a new way and igo that I get.
(48:03):
That's what I would tell people.
I don't know of a betterpractical life teaching than
what he teaches, you know, justabout being a human being.
And then what he knowsspiritually or however you
reference it, his ability tospeak on any subject, going back
(48:25):
or met a person.
who can speak on just aboutanything in terms of fixing your
car.
And it's like, how do you knowthis stuff?
And a lot of times you say, Ijust do.
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
I'd like to say also, having when I first met
him, first time I met himphysically, as he walked towards
me, I went blind and light.
I couldn't see.
I didn't understand it mentally,but I couldn't see him.
It was just...
brilliant light until his handsemerged out of the light to take
(49:02):
my hand.
So I would say from myexperience, which replicated
itself many times, he was alightning rod of waking up.
So verbally, his teaching wasprofound and often so practical.
He was a very practical teacher.
If, for instance, silly example,but if you were being judgmental
(49:27):
of certain picky things in theworld, but you didn't clean your
kitchen or make your bed, Hewould know that and he'd say,
have you ever thought aboutmaking your bed and washing your
dishes?
You know, he would go topractical examples of your
consciousness as reflection, buthe himself carried an energy
that when he walked in the room,the room changed.
(49:51):
So he carried something thatwas, I don't know, like a
lightning rod of connectivity,like a switch.
It's like he'd walk in a roomand there was a switch you had
inside and it just, you left thetime with him illumined.
Maybe he didn't even touch you,but just his presence and what
(50:15):
he carried.
And he was, first time I saw himat that distance, he was a
simple man.
He was not a fancy man.
First time I saw him, I thought,Goodness, his pants are too
short and his socks are white.
You know, because I'd come fromOktenanda, all this, you know,
(50:36):
glorious colors of reds andincense and music.
No, very simple, but...
I've never seen a power like itagain.
That's why, and even justlistening to his seminars, just
listening.
And when John speaks, I hearJohn Roger.
(50:56):
It's like a transmission thatgoes.
These are things that we don'ttalk about a lot, but it just
is.
That transmission of a rod ofpower of spirit comes through,
and you know it by experience.
It's kind of hard to talk aboutbecause it sounds like you could
(51:17):
talk about setting yourself upfor judgment.
Sometimes some things are bestkept sacred and in our
experience, and if it transformsour life to greater loving,
caring, and sharing, that's whatit's about.
SPEAKER_02 (51:35):
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (51:37):
You can imagine how satisfying it is to teach this
around the world.
SPEAKER_02 (51:41):
let's talk about that what is when you say around
the world um let's shed a littlebit more light on that because i
mean i'm i i know what thatmeans but but but tell us tell
our audience a little bit moredetail about what your
experiences are around the worldand the groups of people that
(52:03):
you are touching
SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
Well, we have active groups in obviously Europe,
South America, Australia, not somuch in Asia for whatever
reason, but some, you know, somehere and there.
And that was part of it.
They would invite John Roger inparticular to come.
So he did go to Australia andthen that expanded and There's
(52:30):
some communities in Africa also.
So it's that type of thing wherepeople are.
And then these days, because ofZoom and being able to go
online, then it really hasbecome a worldwide movement.
There's much more peopleparticipating online typically
than in person.
(52:50):
We have a seminary, and this wasvery important to John Roger,
And he wanted it to be aseminary of life's teachings.
So it's a college of philosophyalso.
And he would say, truth is alivewherever you experience it and
in whoever you experience it.
(53:12):
So he said, we steal from thebest.
He would say, I take truth.
And that was one of the thingsthat was, flung at him, you
know, that he was just copying.
He was mimicking wherever he gotthis teaching or that teaching.
And he was going and looking atwhat other groups were doing.
(53:35):
And you'd say, well, he'd betaking from here.
But from a level of he was also,I don't know how to do this.
You know, it was like a giftcame upon him.
in 1963, particularly in thattime period of December when he
was in the coma, where he justhad knowing, he had awareness
(53:56):
about people and then he woulddo what he called light studies
with people or just talk to themabout their consciousness and
talk to them about past livesand be able to have insight that
was bewildering.
How would you possibly know thatabout me and be able to tell me
about that?
And he didn't try to explain itbecause it's like, unless you
(54:17):
know how this works, you know,I'm just going to tell you.
And that was, you know, powerfulas well.
And then we recorded his talksthrough the years.
And then he passed over in 1914,so a little over 10 years ago.
(54:38):
And by that time, I was alreadydesignated as president.
the successor of the mysticaltraveler consciousness, the keys
to what that is.
And I would say somethingsimilar.
I'm not something like a guru ora great teacher or you know all
(54:59):
these things.
I know them in the moment, andthen people often say, well, how
do you know that?
And I just often say, I justknow it.
I know it in a way I can tellyou.
And you go, well, do you havethat in a personal way?
It's like, no, it's not myexperience.
I'm just telling you what I see.
Or it's sometimes just like animpression.
(55:21):
And I ask people, do you have oryou give me permission to tell
you something that I can't proveit to you?
So if you're looking for that,it's probably better if I don't
tell you.
And that's how this works.
So he calls it the mysticaltraveler.
And even that was like, how didhe come up with that?
(55:43):
He was for a while looking for,what do I call this?
And really coming in withsomething, well, what did Jesus
call it?
Or what did Zoroaster call it?
I mean, that there were many whowere mystics, if we go back, and
known.
Some of them weren't very known.
when
SPEAKER_02 (56:02):
you say call it are you referring to the knowing
SPEAKER_03 (56:06):
knowing the consciousness yes and he teaches
like he doesn't own it it's notlike I possess this and nobody
else does no it's very much auniversal consciousness and he
teaches and we teach it aseverybody has this consciousness
it's just how awake are youright and then you can you can
(56:30):
do things like a build areligion, so you'd say, well,
the Hindus, I mean, they hadthings and the Upanishads.
And it's like, yes, yes.
And then I look at like, well,what is it now?
This is really what's important,that things do evolve and do we
evolve with it so that we have aliving God, not one that died
(56:54):
2,000 years ago.
You know, I remember having aconversation a leader in, he was
also a medical doctor inPakistan and Afghanistan.
And so he was very muchknowledgeable and devout as a
(57:15):
Muslim.
And I said to him, do youconsider that there could be
another prophet after Muhammad?
He said, absolutely not.
No.
And I said, well, doesn't Allahdoesn't Allah maybe would let
somebody else and he was justcompletely like that no that's
(57:37):
not going to happen and for meit's very different like that
that there we can be a Christconsciousness we teach that so
and I think Jesus said it wellyou can do this and greater
SPEAKER_02 (57:50):
what do you mean greater
SPEAKER_03 (57:52):
greater I said you will do And I think we're
finding out what that is.
But, you know, he set a verypowerful example.
What would you be willing to doin service?
And then let's consider he didhave powerful gifts of knowledge
and wisdom.
But he, look, who we drew to himwere very simple people.
(58:13):
And I think that was part of themessage.
And that's what we talk about.
You don't have to be elite andelect and you're better than
them in, you know, you don'twant to be with them because
they're beneath you.
No, it's as much more, it comesas ordinariness.
We often talk about that.
(58:34):
That's the condition prior towaking up to God.
You're just so ordinary, likedown to earth, simple being who
happens to be conscious ofsomething that transcends this
world.
SPEAKER_02 (58:49):
That's beautiful.
well that may be a great placefor us to wrap this i'm going to
call this our initialconversation because if you guys
are willing i would love to tohave you both back at another
time i know we're going to speaklee in a couple weeks um but i
i'd like to yeah i i typicallyhave certain guests that i
resonate with and i have them onseveral times i think you guys
(59:11):
definitely qualify as that ithink our audience is going to
love this this episode and uh Ithink there's a really strong
message that you have here thatI'd love to be a part of sharing
with others, if you're willing.
SPEAKER_04 (59:23):
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (59:23):
yes.
Yeah, this is my ministry, and Ido it in a consciousness of
service, so I don't look at itlike I get paid to do it and
then it's a duty.
No, I don't have to, and I wantto.
So that's my message back toyou, Ashley.
I want to, and I'm sure Leewants to.
SPEAKER_01 (59:39):
We love being with you, too.
SPEAKER_02 (59:40):
Wonderful.
Well, I'm going to hit pause onthe record.
If you guys could just stay onfor a little bit, I'd like to
just wrap this up off camera.
But thank you again, JohnMorton, Lee Taylor Young from
the Movement of Spiritual InnerAwareness.
And the website, John, ismsia.org?
SPEAKER_03 (59:59):
Yes.
And there's another one I havespecifically called
johnmortonministries.org.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
Okay.
Mine would be lty.org.
Dot com.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:18):
Lty.com.
SPEAKER_02 (01:00:20):
Lty.com.
Thank you so much, both of you.
It's been wonderful.
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SPEAKER_00 (01:02:32):
Thanks for listening to Ashley on Nothing But The
Truth for a better you and me.
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