August 29, 2025 • 41 mins
There's plenty of debate about whether or not college truly prepares you for a career. Between homework assignments and research projects, how can you build a resume that helps you succeed after graduation?
Let's find out.
This week, Dr. Ross and student producer Ashley Worley explore the best resources and tips for college students/recent grads navigating the job market. Joining us to share her expertise is Dr. Rosemary Cooper, UT Tyler's Executive Director of Career Success, and Ebony Walker, a grad student juggling her new job as an adjunct English professor. Together, they share the real-world career experiences of both faculty and students to address the unique challenges of finding work in today's market, connecting students with career development resources, and breaking into creative industries. No matter where you are in your career journey, this episode has the practical advice to help you take your next steps.
Have questions about finding your career path during college? Email us at ADRquestions@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
System's Academy ofDistinguished Teachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
(00:27):
Texas at Tyler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to another episode of Ask Dr Ross.
I'm here with my wonderfulproducer, ms Ashley Worley.
I have two guests here DrRosemary Cooper, who is the
director of our UT Tyler Officeof Career Success.
Our other guest is one of ourrecent MA graduates, ms Ebony
Walker, who is now one of ourlecturers in the college's
(00:54):
Department of Literature andLanguages.
What we're going to talk abouttoday is everybody is very
concerned these days that you goto college and you spend all
this money and then what are yougoing to do when you get out?
And not all of the courses thatwe teach, not all the majors we
teach, have an automatic careerpath.
Not everybody is going to wantto be an accountant or an
(01:15):
engineer or a nurse, and so wehave a lot of other things going
on, and the first thing wewanted to do was to talk to you,
rosemary, about the Office ofCareer Success, about its
creation and about your reasonsand hopes and dreams for that.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Absolutely, and thank you guys for having me.
I appreciate it.
So the office was created in2018.
So this is our what our almostseventh full year and so the
structure of the office is a bitdifferent than what you see at
probably most universities andcolleges.
We truly do provide a holisticapproach.
(01:52):
We look at the whole student,not just the career development
piece.
So we hear any and everything,just like a lot of our faculty
do about the students' lives,what's going on currently, what
their goals are, highs and lowsso we hear about it all.
When we created the office, wechose to go the route of
creating career coaches for eachof our academic colleges.
(02:16):
Our thoughts were to be thoseindividuals that really create
transformational change and notjust be an office of
transactional services, you know.
So we've embedded a careercoach in each of our academic
colleges, and so it's adecentralized model, if you want
to look at it that way.
That makes it just realpractical.
(02:36):
I mean, first of all, it's realconvenient.
The students walk out of classand there you are right.
So, aside from the coachingmodel itself, just the nature of
our work is somewhat differentthan what you see in most career
services type of offices.
Our approach is very customizedto each student, so we don't
provide the same information toevery student, because every
(02:56):
student's different.
Every student has their ownstory.
Now, on the flip side, ofcourse, we're there to provide
support and supplement for ourfaculty in the classrooms
Everything from resume writing,cover letter writing, mock
interviews, career assessments,really trying to find your path,
helping the students find theirway.
So we do all of those what wecall standard career development
(03:17):
programming.
But it's the real coaching thatis different.
So our goal is to meet with thestudent initially and when I
say initially, we're talking atfreshman orientation, just
making them aware and then alsoproviding them kind of a quick
guide, if you will, of what toexpect or look for over the next
four years.
The idea is to assign thatstudent to a career coach and
(03:40):
then that's their person for thenext four years.
It's important to us for it tofunction that way because, just
like our own family, we want tohave somebody that we feel
comfortable with.
They kind of know our story,that kind of thing, and they're
able to stay in tune with usduring that whole journey.
Right?
So our coaches again arehearing everything about work,
life, balance.
You know school, life balance,things like that.
(04:02):
We're hearing about it all.
Aside from that, of course,we're the conduit between the
student and the employer.
We have a number of differentroles, wear a number of
different hats, but it's alsoour responsibility to know what
the employers are looking for.
That's a big piece of this.
So it's one thing to kind ofget the student prepared, but
(04:22):
prepared for what?
So we got to have our ear tothe ground and know what the
employers are looking for and wegot to know what's trendy.
We have to know what standardpractice in different industries
.
We've got to know the jargon,the language that's used in
different industries.
And again back to the careercoaching model.
These coaches are set up andhave backgrounds in each of
(04:44):
these areas, if you will, and weoften visit with employers.
We travel around the state andaround the region and go to the
actual site of the employer, gointo the facility and find out
what they're looking for andwhat they need.
Now it's something that we'vebeen doing in the last couple of
years.
We've been taking groups ofstudents on these site visits,
and so that's another huge plusfor us.
(05:07):
And so it's one thing for thestudent to hear about a certain
career, but it's completelydifferent to be boots on the
ground watching and hearing whatthey do in that industry.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
You know and I think that's so important because we
were talking about this earlierwe were interviewing some folks
from the English department andthey were talking about how, you
know, everybody thinks thatEnglish professors and English
classes are like they are in themovies, and same thing with
doctors and lawyers andaccountants.
They have these stereotypes andanybody who's in those
professions will tell you thatisn't the way it really is.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And if I could just tell you some of the stories,
gosh and y'all seen them tooover the years.
Just students that you know,they don't know what they don't
know.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Exactly.
A lot of times they don't knowwhat they want to do, or they
come in thinking they want to besomething their parents want
them to be, and I can't tell youhow many times I've had a
student come up to me in tearsand say my mother wants me to be
a nurse, but I don't likeanatomy.
Or I really want to be anEnglish major, but my parents
(06:10):
don't think I can do anythingwith that, and so our job is to
help them see what they can dowith the things we're teaching
them, and so it sounds as thoughyour office and your career
coaches are a vital link in thatprocess and one of the things
I've always felt as a teacherespecially English, because
English has this stereotype ofwell, what do you do with an
(06:31):
English degree?
In fact, there's a lot you cando with an English degree, but I
don't always know where theslots are out in the community,
and so it sounds like you allare out there finding out in the
Tyler area, in East Texas area,or even in the larger state, I
suppose 100% and that's againpart of our responsibility is we
can train the student all day,but for what?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
What are we training them for?
Right, we've got to take careof the other end of this right,
and that's knowing what theemployer's looking for.
What are the industry norms?
You know, and how is the market?
How is it changing?
You know so much impacts theworkforce, everything from
politics to economics.
You know it changes the realityof things, and so our goal is
(07:16):
to be as practical as we can andgive them all the tools they
need and I say this to studentsall the time you're paying for
these services all the toolsthey need.
And I say this to students allthe time You're paying for these
services Enjoy them, please.
You know we want you to, and Ithink a lot of times the
students, just like I said,don't know what they don't know.
So I'm all about old fashionedadvertising, right, get out
(07:40):
there and tell them what'savailable to them on this campus
, and not physically here on thecampus, necessarily.
We've got plenty of online anddistance students.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know we serve all of them Well and that was one
of my questions.
As you said, you talked to thefreshmen at freshman orientation
, but about half of our studentsare transferred, so they come
in there may already be asophomore or junior.
What kind of contact do youhave with them?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Great question.
We're part of all orientationsfor one and transfer orientation
is now required.
But that's a big piece of it.
Again, we don't want it to bewhere the student has to chase
down these things.
Right, that's the worst setupyou could have, right, it needs
to be provided to the studentand let them be aware of it.
So, anyway, we have standardprogramming that takes place
(08:22):
every year and then, of course,depending on kind of what's the
hot topic, we'll talk about that.
Salary negotiation is a big oneright now.
We get them prepared for thecareer, we show them how to
apply for the job, all thesethings.
But let's say they get the job,now what?
How do we talk about thesensitive things?
You know the money right, andso we cover it all from long
(08:45):
before you ever get starteduntil after you've landed the
job how to operate in theworkforce, like workforce
expectations.
What does it look like tofunction with others?
You know, and outside of theclassroom you know, it's a
little different dynamic.
So we train on those kind ofthings, a lot of the soft skills
that the faculty may not have achance to really talk about in
(09:07):
the classroom because they onlyhave a set amount of time to
talk about the content itself.
Right, the academic content.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Now I want to turn over here for a minute, but
Ebony is an example of one ofour former students who has
found a career.
But I'd like you to talk,especially in the presence of Dr
Cooper, who has certainly hearda million stories.
How did it feel coming here?
Because I know when you firstcame here you were going to go
to law school.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yes, I was.
You were actually the reason Ibecame an English major.
I came and, honestly, I choselaw because nobody else in my
family had ever went to college.
So I was a first generationcollege student and being a
lawyer just sounded successful.
It just sounded like asuccessful career.
So I came here, I majored inpolitical science and I took I
(10:07):
think it was your 2323 class.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's a British survey course, just a basic core class
for everybody's got to take oneof them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, and I had always liked English, it was
easy for me.
And you said, like, why haven'tyou ever considered it?
And I was like, well, I mean Idon't know.
And so I went and I talked tomy advisor and I found out that
I could double major and stillgraduate in the same amount of
years.
And I'm kind of a cautiousperson.
(10:36):
So I was like, well, that givesme a backup.
And I mean, at that point Istill planned to go to law
school but I figured it wouldn'thurt to have a second degree.
I literally thought I was goingto law school until my senior
year and then I said, oh God, Idon't want to do this and I
decided to go into the master'sprogram.
But I do think that a lot of ithad to do with just how
(11:02):
tight-knit the Englishdepartment here is.
I really knew all of myprofessors.
I talked to them.
They were there, they werewilling to speak with me.
Dr Wu, who was our former chair, was very much always there
telling me like it's stillpossible to have a successful
career and be in the humanities.
So I didn't have to forcemyself to go down this career
path.
That to me just was one of thebig ones, right, like doctor,
(11:24):
lawyer.
Those are the things you hearwhen you think about a
successful career, but I nolonger felt like that was
something I would have to do.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
In a way, what she's telling us right now is exactly
why your office exists isbecause we need people to talk
with all of our students.
But you know, so many times Imean they're happy to get to
college and they figure that'sthe next step, but what is the
step after that?
And the step after that?
And, as you mentioned, thecareer world is changing so
(11:55):
rapidly.
So even if you did start outthinking I definitely want to be
a lawyer and I'll be good at itand forget, dr Ross is enticing
me off to be an English majorby the time you got finished,
the law world and admissions tolaw schools and what they're
teaching in law schools and allof that are going to be
different.
And I'll give you anotherexample.
(12:15):
One of our sons is a lawyer andhe had his heart set on being an
environmental lawyer.
Guess what?
There aren't very many jobs outthere doing that, but there are
a whole lot of jobs out theredoing family law.
And he was already a debaterand a good political scientist,
and so he ended up going in thatdirection.
(12:35):
But he didn't know that hisdream of one kind of law was
pretty unlikely and I think hestruggled for a little while,
even though he was, you know,doing this quote thing that
sounds successful.
As you said, it sounds likeyou're successful.
So career success office hardlyexisted when you first started.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I mean, I think it probably had existed but I
didn't know about it.
And also I think back then itwas a little less apparent how
many resources were availablefor students.
I think now I see like posterseverywhere, we have like events.
I know that the career successteam does events because when I
(13:14):
was in grad school I helped likeset up a couple of them, so I
think that helps a lot.
When I was an undergrad Ididn't know about all these
things.
I remember the first timesomebody was like we have
counseling that they offer youat college, and I was like what?
And they were like yeah, youpay for it.
Like we have so many differentthings that is already included
in your tuition.
(13:34):
That just wasn't as welladvertised.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, and I also think it's not just that it's
not well advertised.
I think it's also that studentsare so busy going to class and
they're not really sure what itis they want to do anyway.
I can't tell you how many timesa student has told me, you know
, I think I want to do somethingin the math area, but I'm
actually pretty good in Englishand maybe I could do that too.
(13:58):
Or we've got a biology studentwho says you know what I love?
Science fiction.
I want to do something withthat.
I mean, there's a lot ofcrossover and it ends up being
too much.
I think students get confused,and I know a lot of students are
really anxious about findingwork and finding good work.
So I'm so thrilled that we havesomebody who is enthusiastic
(14:21):
and as talented as you are,because you know, I've known you
since the beginning.
In fact, rosemary is a bit of astory too, a career story,
because I think you started outas an administrative assistant
and you are now Dr RosemaryCooper.
You might want to talk a littlebit about how that happened,
because I think that's kind ofillustrative of the way people
(14:41):
find their paths in life.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
A hundred percent.
I was just saying earlier I'msuch a poster child for this and
not to talk about myself, but Iknow myself better than anybody
else right, but we do havestories, and other people's
stories help younger peoplefigure out what's going to be
happening next.
I say that all the time.
So I did start here at theuniversity.
Like I said, a quarter of acentury ago, my title was
(15:06):
secretary and that was verycommon to use that term back in
those days, and at that time Ihad an associate's degree and I
actually had a daughter at thattime, and so I did all the
things, got married, hadchildren and then finished
school.
So I did it the hard way, notthe wrong way, but the hard way.
I'm from Nashville, came hereand I worked in the music
(15:28):
business in Nashville and so Iworked on Music Row and with you
know all the seemed like allthe glamorous stuff singers,
songwriters, you know all thesefamous people and everything Met
a Texas guy and moved here.
So then I had to reinvent who Iwas.
Who am I now right?
So I came to the university andI was always an academic kid.
(15:48):
You know always very much thatperson, and so I did what I do
best, which is that you know Imean, I'm not a sports person.
You know I'm not.
I don't have all the othertalents.
That's my talent, right, or mygift.
So went to school and, as timewent on, got my bachelor's here
at UT Tyler.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Here at.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
UT.
Tyler, oh yes definitely Got mymaster's in 2009.
I had just had twins and thenpursued my PhD and graduated
with my PhD in 2015.
So I'm saying all that to saythat higher education has become
my career Again.
I know me best, but I came froma world of entertainment.
You know, all this was in myflashy, cool stuff, right?
(16:30):
But I never dreamed that.
You know I'd be doing this 25years later.
You know, and it has been sucha blessing to me and to my
family, you know, and I'm afirst-generation college student
Mom and dad neither graduatedhigh school, both have GEDs.
So I'm saying all that to saythat they were the most
(16:50):
supportive people ever, but theyalso are very vocational type
individuals.
So, as much as I sit here witha PhD and such a proponent of
higher education, I equally havea heart for those who do
vocational work, because we needthem all.
We need all of us to make thiswork, and so sometimes, believe
it or not, college is not foreverybody, and it's OK.
(17:13):
It's OK that it may not be foryou.
So, again, I've been there.
I've had to rethink about who Iam, what's important to me,
what's practical, and I startedout one way had changed my major
.
So all those things.
From personal experience, I cantell the students it's okay if
you change your major.
Don't feel like you weren'tsmart enough or you weren't good
(17:34):
enough.
Thing is, you've got talent.
I believe this firmly, thateverybody was born with a gift
or gifts you know, and so youwill find that.
You will find it, andoftentimes you know what it is,
but you're afraid to take thenext step and go.
Well, what can I do with thisgift, though?
You know, what can I do withthis talent, and so it's such a
(17:55):
thing for me.
I'm so passionate about itbecause I lived it.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Well, and I'm really glad you tell that story,
because all of us have stories.
Mine was that I did finishcollege before I got married,
but then I went straight on toworking with my first husband in
education at a different level,and then one day I woke up and
realized I felt like I was at adead end and I wanted more.
(18:21):
Everybody said, well, there'sno jobs in higher education
right now.
And I said, but I love to study, I love to learn.
But I changed my major threetimes in college.
I was pre-med and I had highmath scores and I ended up being
an English major.
But in between times I was ahistory major and then I was an
American studies major and thenfinally, I was an English
(18:42):
literature major.
But I kept following you knowthe strengths, but also the
things that interested me,because the thing I always want
to tell my students is that youwant to find a job that will
feed you not just yourpocketbook, but will feed your
soul and your intellect for along, long time.
(19:02):
But I found that my earlyteaching career just wasn't
getting me there and I wasteaching at really fine
independent schools in Dallas,texas.
They were beautiful places,they were smart people.
I was respected, the kids weremotivated, their parents were
motivated.
I was respected, the kids weremotivated, their parents were
motivated.
But I hit some sort of apersonal wall and so I went to
(19:23):
grad school and they said you'llnever find a college job.
And I just went I'm doing itanyway, you know, and I went
through a lot and I was prettyimpoverished for a while.
But one of the things thathappened is OK.
When I finally did finish mydegree and oh and I'll just add
this halfway through my PhD work, I got cancer and everybody
(19:45):
thought I was going to die and Ithought, well, I sure don't
want to do that right now.
So I finished up and went out onthe job market and there were
over 250 graduates that year inmy field and there were five
jobs in the whole country andI'm going.
Well, I guess there wasn'tmeant to be.
No, I'm going to try anyway.
And I chose to apply to threeof them and I got interviewed by
(20:13):
three of them and I got offeredtwo of the jobs.
One of them was University ofColorado R1 school, very
prestigious.
I didn't want to go to thatplace.
I didn't want to do that kindof work, I was really ready to
get back in the classroom.
Another one was Middlebury,which is a fabulous liberal arts
college, like where I'd gone,but it was way up in the far
northeast and it was freezingcold up there.
You know, I ruled those out andI went for the three ones in
(20:35):
the middle and one was UT Tylerand I've been, like you, 25
years here and I've watched theplace grow and change and it has
grown and changed around me.
To some extent the job I thoughtI'd signed up for is not the
same that I do now, but I havebeen able to do what I think I'm
pretty good at.
So when I look back at thepeople who said, you'll never
(20:56):
get a job if you have somebodywho says go ahead and try it,
like you're doing for us, likeyour office is doing for us, but
also helping students to findthe connections, because
sometimes you just don't knowwhat's going on out there.
So, for example, you know, hereyou are Ebony.
(21:24):
I think you've settled on thefact that you're pretty good at
being a college teacher and youwant to keep doing it.
But guess what?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
It's still a stepping stone, like now I'm an adjunct
professor.
I'm getting obviously somecareer steps in, but getting to
that next step of becoming afull time professor is the
middle part of doing all thethings.
An adjunct professor isbasically a part time professor
(21:53):
where usually you teachthe-level English courses 1301,
1302, that are core courses thatall majors have to take and
because of that there's usuallya lot of them.
So usually colleges hireadjuncts to teach those sort of
courses because we can't have asbig of class sizes.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Right.
English classes at that levelhave to be small, so we've got
to have a lot of teachers, butwe never know from semester to
semester how many teachers weneed right.
So that's one of the slipperyparts about this step in your
career.
But you are training to be afull-time lecturer, or perhaps
if you go on the PhD right.
So from the job skillsstandpoint it's a good step.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Oh, 100%, 100% it's funny you should say that about
pursuing advanced education, andso that too is a part of our
office in that we help studentsget there.
So that may mean kind ofnavigating what an adjunct
faculty position may look like,kind of how to get your feet wet
, how to get your foot in thedoor, but then getting ready to
(22:57):
submit your statements ofadmission for PhD programs.
We work with students insubmitting their letters for
admission to medical school,pharmacy school, you name it.
So again, that's all part ofcareer development.
Pursuing higher education ispart of it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Also, you were telling us, before we started
recording, that you're startingto apply now for next year's set
of jobs.
And here's the woman her office, her coaches can help you sort
that out.
You don't just have to take iton by yourself anymore.
Tell us what the task is, Ebonyfirst.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Well, right now I'm applying for full-time positions
, but those positions are alittle more difficult at my
level because I only have amaster's.
So in most college-level jobsare usually looking for someone
that they can tenure, so PhDstudents.
But you can get a job.
Usually it's like a lecturer atthat level and right now at our
(23:55):
college we have a lecturerposition opening that I am
applying for.
But there's also a position atTJC.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Tjc is our local junior college, tyler Junior
College, but yeah, and then, ofcourse, there are like dual
credit positions.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
So those are the kind of jobs I'm looking at now,
because I would like to have afull-time position before I
start getting my PhD.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Right, and I think for our office, in a case like
yours and even if it wasn'tEbony, but let's say it's
someone else who is in thattransition period, if you will
the goal is to show the employerhow valuable you are right and
then where your pursuits couldtake you.
I'm also adjunct faculty hereat the university, so I can
speak to that a little bit too.
(24:39):
I'm the only staff member withthe PhD, but that is valuable in
that I can impart that tostudents to kind of help them
find ways to get their foot inthe door.
They're not quite thereacademically yet because they're
generally young, like you, andthey're still going through the
motions, going through theschoolwork and things like that.
But it's a matter of tellingthat employer how valuable you
(25:01):
are right and kind of knowingwhere you want to go.
They'd be crazy not to want totake you right, and so that's
our job is to help you put thaton paper.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And do you also help with things like credentialing,
so, for example, if you know howto use AI or if you know how to
use Canva or our variouslearning management systems, so
there are things like that.
You can help students to kindof build their resume.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yes, definitely.
So one thing is really hittinghome on your skills, so I want
to mention that.
So if there are particularplatforms that you use and I
don't necessarily mean you,ebony, but any student uses that
pertains to the industry thatthey want to go into, that again
is why the coach comes backinto play.
That coach knows what thoseplatforms are.
(25:45):
They know the language, youknow everything's got an acronym
, you know in differentindustries.
But being able to then makesure that student puts the
correct language on the resumeso that the employer knows that,
it's very important inengineering because there are a
lot of systems, a lot oftechnology goes into play there
Our health care, our nursingstudents.
There's a lot of specificjargon they use and that's also
(26:10):
really important because wetalked about just the nature of
the workforce how much it haschanged.
I'm 52 years old, so I've beenaround the block just once so
far.
But it's different when youapply for jobs now.
So a lot of industry they useapplication tracking systems and
they're called ATS.
That's the letters we use,right?
But what that boils down to isa lot of these larger
(26:32):
organizations and companies theyhave an online platform where
the applicant will submit theirresume, cover letter, that kind
of thing.
Well, if the resume doesn'thave the correct skills listed,
acronyms used, things like that,that system will automatically
spit the application and resumeout, so that individual never
(26:52):
gets a first look.
Now remember, this is not aperson doing this.
This is a technology, a machine.
So we as a staff have tounderstand about these
application tracking systems.
We have to know which companiesuse them and to make sure that
your resume is absolutely thebest it can be right to give you
the best shot at gettingreviewed.
So knowing about the technologythat's used when it comes to
(27:15):
recruiting is super importantfor us, and also knowing a
little bit about the acronyms,the technology that's used in
some of these industries.
We're not experts in thoseareas, but we have to have a
little bit of knowledge about it, and we get that from meeting
with the employers.
So it's incumbent upon us tomake sure we know what the
employers are looking for,otherwise we're of really no use
(27:35):
to you, the student.
You know We've got to know whatthey're looking for.
That's the best way to set thestudent up for success Knowing
the technology, the platforms,that is, and then understanding
or having the student understandwhy it's important, and then
being able to put that on paper.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I would think the other thing too is it's lonely
looking for a job, you know, andnow you've got a coach and
Rosemary's staff there with allthese things available.
I think we did something prettyamazing, though We've done it
(28:15):
for several years now.
The Career Conference.
You want to tell us a littlebit about the Career Conference?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yes, absolutely so.
Every year since 2018, we'vehad a Career Success Conference
and it's a very unique type ofevent.
It functions very much like anytype of professional conference
that anyone would go to, nomatter what industry Generally
about 100 or so speakers, and sothere are individual sessions.
Type of professional conferencethat anyone would go to, no
matter what industry Generallyabout a hundred or so speakers,
and so there are individualsessions.
Students choose the sessionsthey'd like to attend.
(28:41):
It's a one-day event and thesespeakers are from all walks of
life and all industry, and it'sbeen our goal to really make
sure we have speakers thatreflect our academic areas.
So we want to make sure all ofour students have at least one
person there, right, that speakstheir language or they can see
(29:01):
oh, that's what a career in thatindustry is like, right and so
they're generally mid-levelmanagement to C-suite type
individuals.
What's C-suite Executive level?
And it was a goal of mine tobring back a lot of our alum,
because what better way to showthe student look, you know,
here's Johnny.
He was here just five years ago, graduated with an English
(29:24):
degree, and look at him now heis now at the ABC affiliate in
Dallas.
You know, writing theirstoryboards or whatever you know
, writing for their shows,producing their shows, things
like that.
So there was no better way, wethought, than to bring some of
our alum back.
So over half of all of ourspeakers were alumni, successful
alumni, and, like I said, yousee some alum that come back or
(29:48):
any of the speakers for thatmatter and they're young.
Some of them are my age andolder.
We want seasoned veterans, wewant people who've been around
the block twice, you know, whocan show the student what it's
like.
But we also want a young crowdtoo.
So when, let's say, we have an18-year-old student, you know,
if they see someone who's 25,they can relate to them honestly
(30:11):
, just so much easier.
You know they can say, oh, infive years I could be doing that
.
Oh my gosh.
Of course there's nothing moregenuine than an organic
relationship.
When it is naturally built andyou don't force a mentor and a
mentee together, they reallydon't click and that kind of
thing.
At this event we had speakerswho saw Ebony, you know, and
(30:32):
they were like, oh my gosh, theystarted a conversation, really
personally clicked.
Then they found out what thestudent wanted to do and then,
lo and behold, at the end of theconference I've got a phone
number.
I then can go to lunch withthis individual.
I've got somebody who can talkto me when I, let's say, my
family is not around to askthese questions of, or whatever,
and then I've got somebody thatthey really do have my best
(30:54):
interest at heart.
So we've seen a lot ofrelationships being created like
that.
Also, what it did, it allowedour alumni to come back and so
they're giving by way of theirtime, and that was a big piece
of it.
But it also allowed ourstudents to have again a foot in
the door at some of thesebusinesses and organizations.
So these were, like I said,mid-level to corporate level
(31:15):
executives, things like that.
Well, they're at thesecompanies, running these
companies, they know whatthey're looking for, they know
the type of talent they'rewanting.
Well, now we've got a direct inwith that organization, that
company.
We've seen so many successfulrelationships being built.
We've seen students go intointernships and full and
part-time positions with thesecompanies by way of that
(31:37):
conference.
It's just a magical day,because how often do we get to
do?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
this.
I was at the very first onewhen you all started it and I
thought it was a great idea.
And we literally call offclasses.
Most of us do, some peopledon't.
The one thing I will say isthat I was really surprised at
how few of my students used itlast year, which surprised me,
because I could tell that youall worked really, really hard
to streamline it for the majors.
(32:03):
That's a common problem withcollege students.
You can bring them to the water.
You can't always make themdrink.
And when I listen to whatyou've done and I think about
what wasn't available eightyears ago or nine years ago and
what is available and you know,the big crisis for higher
education right now is it costsso much and what are you going
to do when you get out.
Well, you're telling us we'llhelp you find what you're going
(32:26):
to do and we're not going tojust find a job, we're going to
find a career.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Just thinking about how the job market is different
now and it is overwhelming tothe student and I know that I
have kids that go to UT Tylercurrently, and I have a daughter
who's already graduated and Ihave to stay in tune with the
job market, just as their mom.
You know, I want to make sure Iknow what they've got to look
forward to and things like that,but it is overwhelming for the
(32:55):
students.
There's so much that we allwant to teach the students so
much in an academic year andthere's obviously never enough
time to do it all you know.
And so being prepared for lifeis one thing.
You know.
Students come here all the timeand they're not ready for life,
you know.
And then you've got the load ofcoursework and things like that
(33:15):
, and then all of that buildsand then all of a sudden it's
time to find a job or a career,and so looking for a job is a
full-time job.
I can speak for all of my stafffor sure.
We very much recognize that.
We also have seen by way of ourwork that the support system is
(33:36):
not the same in every familyfor every student, and I go back
to the holistic approach inthat you truly have to have a
heart for this work and to bewilling to sit there and, for
one, just listen to what's goingon in their lives but then also
know the resources to directthem to the right places so they
can get help with these otherthings that are not in my world,
(33:59):
but being a resource for themand being a support system for
them.
We all have heard this and weknow people in our own lives the
nuclear family mom, dad, threekids and a dog kind of thing and
everybody's happy and it's, youknow, unicorns and rainbows.
That's not real, you know.
I mean, everybody's gotsomething going on, everybody's
(34:19):
got a story.
It's just really the way we seeit.
Again, it's just it is what ourwork, it is what we do and what
we love.
But you've got to be willing tobe their support, and a lot of
the students just they just wantto come back and go.
It's almost like saying, hey,mom, is that okay?
What do you think about this?
I wrote that.
Now, is that all right?
And it just takes three minutesto sit there and go.
You know what?
(34:40):
I love that, or you know what?
Let's word it this way, youknow, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Now, Ashley, what are you thinking about all this?
I bet you've got a lot ofquestions.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Well, I mean, actually y'all did a fantastic
job of answering a ton of thequestions that I came here
wondering about.
Part of the whole reason that Iasked you about this, I was
like, hey, we should do a careersuccess episode is because,
even though I'm just a sophomore, I'm trying to think about how
to get into the workforce, likewhat that experience is going to
be, like what things I can doto prepare, and I knew the
(35:25):
career success office was here.
I didn't really know much elseabout it.
The first time I went in therewas to knock on the door and
drop off our card and be likedoes anyone want to do this?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
podcast episode.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
No, we saw it and the first thing we said we're like,
oh my God, this is amazing, youknow and so that was all I was
really curious about is findingsome of the experiences that
students have getting into theworkforce, finding, you know,
like you were talking about acareer that you love and not
just a job.
Me personally, I feel like I'malmost in a weird place there
(35:57):
because, like I love movies, myend goal is to have a film
production studio, and it's likeone of those jobs that doesn't
make any money.
Until it makes money, it's aninvestment for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Well, I remember you said to me once that when you
were getting ready to come tocollege, everybody talked about
STEM.
The only place you could getjobs was STEM, and here you were
more of a creative person andyou weren't sure there was going
to be anything out there foryou.
And it sounds to me as thoughDr Cooper's office, dr Cooper's
folks, are the ones that canhelp you find those things.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
To that point.
You talked going off into thiscreative industry and all that,
and of course I'm all about that, I love it.
That's what it sounds likeyou're wanting to do.
We had a lot of other studentswith the same dreams like that,
you know, and so what we've beenable to do is to find
peripheral industries orperipheral jobs.
That again, it gets thatindividual in that industry.
(36:52):
They may not be the filmmaker,they may be what do you call it?
A gaffer.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Showrunner or gaffer.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
So I mean you may start out there doing that,
right, but your end goal is tobe a filmmaker, right.
So we've had that experiencewhere we now go and find those
peripheral roles or industriesthat connect to the one you want
to be in, because the onesyou're talking about in
particular, you're right, itdoesn't make money until you're
(37:21):
really in that final role.
That's where you're really inyour superstar.
You know at that point, right,and so what we have to do is
kind of walk the middle line, ifyou will, in helping the
student understand the practicalnature of it all, and then the
other side of it is neverdeterring them from what they
really want to end up doing.
(37:42):
But we try to be the voice ofreason, you know.
I mean you got to be use commonsense in a lot of this.
You know, it's just that,absolutely, there's absolutely
no way you should ever give upthat dream.
But you got to be practical andhow are you going to get there?
So that helps us kind ofestablish those steps for them.
You know we offer the careerassessments and some people may
say, oh, career assessments,whatever, right, they are truly
(38:05):
helpful because some of them aremore of an interest inventory
that we talked about.
Others really highlight thestudents' strengths.
So what were the natural giftsthey were given?
Right, what are those?
And then try to build on thestrengths you know.
Don't find all the things thatyou can't do and try to build on
those.
You want to build on the thingsthat you are already naturally
(38:25):
good at doing.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I just wanted to give Ebony or Ashley a chance to see
other questions or things thatyou would love to hear from Dr
Cooper about.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Well, I guess I would start by saying I think that
student engagement is sodifficult and now I'm teaching
and I see it and I'm like God,was this how I was?
And on a certain extent, yes,because I feel like what I'm
learning now is like there wasthis huge resource that I could
have used.
That I didn't, maybe early on Ididn't know, but I definitely
(38:59):
did.
By grad school I definitelyknew, and I think that for me it
was like this sense of I don'tneed help with that and I you do
.
I feel like if I am going togive anybody anything in this,
it's that you do.
Looking for a job is not easy.
It is a lot.
(39:19):
Honestly, I think it helps alittle bit that I am an English
major, because it's a lot.
It's way more writing intensivethan you would think, but it
doesn't always intuitive, likepeople think they'll just know
what skills people are lookingfor.
You don't.
So I can say that for anybodylistening.
Do not take it at face valuethat you think, oh, I know what
(39:39):
I need to do, because youprobably don't Go ahead and
reach out and ask for help andtake advantage of these
resources while you have them.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
You've just given so much like wonderful information
as we're starting to close it.
Is there like a piece of advicefor preparation for finding
your career or what to do asyou're getting ready to get out
of college?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
For me this is what I tell the students that I see
the students in my actualclasses is never discount
something you've done.
It may be something you've donein the classroom, it may be
something you've done as avolunteer, it may be an actual
job you've held, but neverdiscount those things because
(40:25):
they all add up to somethingright.
I've had students tell me justthe other day in class.
One of my students said I askedhim where do you work?
Oh, I just work the frontcounter at the gym at our
Harrington Patriot Center andI'm like you don't just do
anything, you work the frontcounter at the Harrington
Patriot Center is what you do.
Look at all the customerservice skills.
(40:47):
I don't even know you and I cantell you this huge, long list
of things that you know how todo, because you told me that
there's so much that we all havedone.
Don't discount your story, whoyou are and what you've done,
because it is all valuable andjust let us help you put it in
writing.
So that's my two cents.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So well, that was pretty interesting.
I enjoyed that.
I guess that's a wrap, ashley.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
Yes, ma'am, this has been the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningin with us today, and if you
have questions about collegelife or any of the topics that
we were talking about today,please send us your questions to
adrquestions at gmailcom.
We'd love to hear from you.
In the meanwhile, we'll see youin the next episode.
Thank you very much.
This is Ashley Wortley signingoff.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Bye-bye.
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
System's Academy ofDistinguished Teachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
(00:27):
Texas at Tyler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to another episode of Ask Dr Ross.
I'm here with my wonderfulproducer, ms Ashley Worley.
I have two guests here DrRosemary Cooper, who is the
director of our UT Tyler Officeof Career Success.
Our other guest is one of ourrecent MA graduates, ms Ebony
Walker, who is now one of ourlecturers in the college's
(00:54):
Department of Literature andLanguages.
What we're going to talk abouttoday is everybody is very
concerned these days that you goto college and you spend all
this money and then what are yougoing to do when you get out?
And not all of the courses thatwe teach, not all the majors we
teach, have an automatic careerpath.
Not everybody is going to wantto be an accountant or an
(01:15):
engineer or a nurse, and so wehave a lot of other things going
on, and the first thing wewanted to do was to talk to you,
rosemary, about the Office ofCareer Success, about its
creation and about your reasonsand hopes and dreams for that.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Absolutely, and thank you guys for having me.
I appreciate it.
So the office was created in2018.
So this is our what our almostseventh full year and so the
structure of the office is a bitdifferent than what you see at
probably most universities andcolleges.
We truly do provide a holisticapproach.
(01:52):
We look at the whole student,not just the career development
piece.
So we hear any and everything,just like a lot of our faculty
do about the students' lives,what's going on currently, what
their goals are, highs and lowsso we hear about it all.
When we created the office, wechose to go the route of
creating career coaches for eachof our academic colleges.
(02:16):
Our thoughts were to be thoseindividuals that really create
transformational change and notjust be an office of
transactional services, you know.
So we've embedded a careercoach in each of our academic
colleges, and so it's adecentralized model, if you want
to look at it that way.
That makes it just realpractical.
(02:36):
I mean, first of all, it's realconvenient.
The students walk out of classand there you are right.
So, aside from the coachingmodel itself, just the nature of
our work is somewhat differentthan what you see in most career
services type of offices.
Our approach is very customizedto each student, so we don't
provide the same information toevery student, because every
(02:56):
student's different.
Every student has their ownstory.
Now, on the flip side, ofcourse, we're there to provide
support and supplement for ourfaculty in the classrooms
Everything from resume writing,cover letter writing, mock
interviews, career assessments,really trying to find your path,
helping the students find theirway.
So we do all of those what wecall standard career development
(03:17):
programming.
But it's the real coaching thatis different.
So our goal is to meet with thestudent initially and when I
say initially, we're talking atfreshman orientation, just
making them aware and then alsoproviding them kind of a quick
guide, if you will, of what toexpect or look for over the next
four years.
The idea is to assign thatstudent to a career coach and
(03:40):
then that's their person for thenext four years.
It's important to us for it tofunction that way because, just
like our own family, we want tohave somebody that we feel
comfortable with.
They kind of know our story,that kind of thing, and they're
able to stay in tune with usduring that whole journey.
Right?
So our coaches again arehearing everything about work,
life, balance.
You know school, life balance,things like that.
(04:02):
We're hearing about it all.
Aside from that, of course,we're the conduit between the
student and the employer.
We have a number of differentroles, wear a number of
different hats, but it's alsoour responsibility to know what
the employers are looking for.
That's a big piece of this.
So it's one thing to kind ofget the student prepared, but
(04:22):
prepared for what?
So we got to have our ear tothe ground and know what the
employers are looking for and wegot to know what's trendy.
We have to know what standardpractice in different industries
.
We've got to know the jargon,the language that's used in
different industries.
And again back to the careercoaching model.
These coaches are set up andhave backgrounds in each of
(04:44):
these areas, if you will, and weoften visit with employers.
We travel around the state andaround the region and go to the
actual site of the employer, gointo the facility and find out
what they're looking for andwhat they need.
Now it's something that we'vebeen doing in the last couple of
years.
We've been taking groups ofstudents on these site visits,
and so that's another huge plusfor us.
(05:07):
And so it's one thing for thestudent to hear about a certain
career, but it's completelydifferent to be boots on the
ground watching and hearing whatthey do in that industry.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
You know and I think that's so important because we
were talking about this earlierwe were interviewing some folks
from the English department andthey were talking about how, you
know, everybody thinks thatEnglish professors and English
classes are like they are in themovies, and same thing with
doctors and lawyers andaccountants.
They have these stereotypes andanybody who's in those
professions will tell you thatisn't the way it really is.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And if I could just tell you some of the stories,
gosh and y'all seen them tooover the years.
Just students that you know,they don't know what they don't
know.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Exactly.
A lot of times they don't knowwhat they want to do, or they
come in thinking they want to besomething their parents want
them to be, and I can't tell youhow many times I've had a
student come up to me in tearsand say my mother wants me to be
a nurse, but I don't likeanatomy.
Or I really want to be anEnglish major, but my parents
(06:10):
don't think I can do anythingwith that, and so our job is to
help them see what they can dowith the things we're teaching
them, and so it sounds as thoughyour office and your career
coaches are a vital link in thatprocess and one of the things
I've always felt as a teacherespecially English, because
English has this stereotype ofwell, what do you do with an
(06:31):
English degree?
In fact, there's a lot you cando with an English degree, but I
don't always know where theslots are out in the community,
and so it sounds like you allare out there finding out in the
Tyler area, in East Texas area,or even in the larger state, I
suppose 100% and that's againpart of our responsibility is we
can train the student all day,but for what?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
What are we training them for?
Right, we've got to take careof the other end of this right,
and that's knowing what theemployer's looking for.
What are the industry norms?
You know, and how is the market?
How is it changing?
You know so much impacts theworkforce, everything from
politics to economics.
You know it changes the realityof things, and so our goal is
(07:16):
to be as practical as we can andgive them all the tools they
need and I say this to studentsall the time you're paying for
these services all the toolsthey need.
And I say this to students allthe time You're paying for these
services Enjoy them, please.
You know we want you to, and Ithink a lot of times the
students, just like I said,don't know what they don't know.
So I'm all about old fashionedadvertising, right, get out
(07:40):
there and tell them what'savailable to them on this campus
, and not physically here on thecampus, necessarily.
We've got plenty of online anddistance students.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know we serve all of them Well and that was one
of my questions.
As you said, you talked to thefreshmen at freshman orientation
, but about half of our studentsare transferred, so they come
in there may already be asophomore or junior.
What kind of contact do youhave with them?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Great question.
We're part of all orientationsfor one and transfer orientation
is now required.
But that's a big piece of it.
Again, we don't want it to bewhere the student has to chase
down these things.
Right, that's the worst setupyou could have, right, it needs
to be provided to the studentand let them be aware of it.
So, anyway, we have standardprogramming that takes place
(08:22):
every year and then, of course,depending on kind of what's the
hot topic, we'll talk about that.
Salary negotiation is a big oneright now.
We get them prepared for thecareer, we show them how to
apply for the job, all thesethings.
But let's say they get the job,now what?
How do we talk about thesensitive things?
You know the money right, andso we cover it all from long
(08:45):
before you ever get starteduntil after you've landed the
job how to operate in theworkforce, like workforce
expectations.
What does it look like tofunction with others?
You know, and outside of theclassroom you know, it's a
little different dynamic.
So we train on those kind ofthings, a lot of the soft skills
that the faculty may not have achance to really talk about in
(09:07):
the classroom because they onlyhave a set amount of time to
talk about the content itself.
Right, the academic content.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Now I want to turn over here for a minute, but
Ebony is an example of one ofour former students who has
found a career.
But I'd like you to talk,especially in the presence of Dr
Cooper, who has certainly hearda million stories.
How did it feel coming here?
Because I know when you firstcame here you were going to go
to law school.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Yes, I was.
You were actually the reason Ibecame an English major.
I came and, honestly, I choselaw because nobody else in my
family had ever went to college.
So I was a first generationcollege student and being a
lawyer just sounded successful.
It just sounded like asuccessful career.
So I came here, I majored inpolitical science and I took I
(10:07):
think it was your 2323 class.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's a British survey course, just a basic core class
for everybody's got to take oneof them.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, and I had always liked English, it was
easy for me.
And you said, like, why haven'tyou ever considered it?
And I was like, well, I mean Idon't know.
And so I went and I talked tomy advisor and I found out that
I could double major and stillgraduate in the same amount of
years.
And I'm kind of a cautiousperson.
(10:36):
So I was like, well, that givesme a backup.
And I mean, at that point Istill planned to go to law
school but I figured it wouldn'thurt to have a second degree.
I literally thought I was goingto law school until my senior
year and then I said, oh God, Idon't want to do this and I
decided to go into the master'sprogram.
But I do think that a lot of ithad to do with just how
(11:02):
tight-knit the Englishdepartment here is.
I really knew all of myprofessors.
I talked to them.
They were there, they werewilling to speak with me.
Dr Wu, who was our former chair, was very much always there
telling me like it's stillpossible to have a successful
career and be in the humanities.
So I didn't have to forcemyself to go down this career
path.
That to me just was one of thebig ones, right, like doctor,
(11:24):
lawyer.
Those are the things you hearwhen you think about a
successful career, but I nolonger felt like that was
something I would have to do.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
In a way, what she's telling us right now is exactly
why your office exists isbecause we need people to talk
with all of our students.
But you know, so many times Imean they're happy to get to
college and they figure that'sthe next step, but what is the
step after that?
And the step after that?
And, as you mentioned, thecareer world is changing so
(11:55):
rapidly.
So even if you did start outthinking I definitely want to be
a lawyer and I'll be good at itand forget, dr Ross is enticing
me off to be an English majorby the time you got finished,
the law world and admissions tolaw schools and what they're
teaching in law schools and allof that are going to be
different.
And I'll give you anotherexample.
(12:15):
One of our sons is a lawyer andhe had his heart set on being an
environmental lawyer.
Guess what?
There aren't very many jobs outthere doing that, but there are
a whole lot of jobs out theredoing family law.
And he was already a debaterand a good political scientist,
and so he ended up going in thatdirection.
(12:35):
But he didn't know that hisdream of one kind of law was
pretty unlikely and I think hestruggled for a little while,
even though he was, you know,doing this quote thing that
sounds successful.
As you said, it sounds likeyou're successful.
So career success office hardlyexisted when you first started.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I mean, I think it probably had existed but I
didn't know about it.
And also I think back then itwas a little less apparent how
many resources were availablefor students.
I think now I see like posterseverywhere, we have like events.
I know that the career successteam does events because when I
(13:14):
was in grad school I helped likeset up a couple of them, so I
think that helps a lot.
When I was an undergrad Ididn't know about all these
things.
I remember the first timesomebody was like we have
counseling that they offer youat college, and I was like what?
And they were like yeah, youpay for it.
Like we have so many differentthings that is already included
in your tuition.
(13:34):
That just wasn't as welladvertised.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, and I also think it's not just that it's
not well advertised.
I think it's also that studentsare so busy going to class and
they're not really sure what itis they want to do anyway.
I can't tell you how many timesa student has told me, you know
, I think I want to do somethingin the math area, but I'm
actually pretty good in Englishand maybe I could do that too.
(13:58):
Or we've got a biology studentwho says you know what I love?
Science fiction.
I want to do something withthat.
I mean, there's a lot ofcrossover and it ends up being
too much.
I think students get confused,and I know a lot of students are
really anxious about findingwork and finding good work.
So I'm so thrilled that we havesomebody who is enthusiastic
(14:21):
and as talented as you are,because you know, I've known you
since the beginning.
In fact, rosemary is a bit of astory too, a career story,
because I think you started outas an administrative assistant
and you are now Dr RosemaryCooper.
You might want to talk a littlebit about how that happened,
because I think that's kind ofillustrative of the way people
(14:41):
find their paths in life.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
A hundred percent.
I was just saying earlier I'msuch a poster child for this and
not to talk about myself, but Iknow myself better than anybody
else right, but we do havestories, and other people's
stories help younger peoplefigure out what's going to be
happening next.
I say that all the time.
So I did start here at theuniversity.
Like I said, a quarter of acentury ago, my title was
(15:06):
secretary and that was verycommon to use that term back in
those days, and at that time Ihad an associate's degree and I
actually had a daughter at thattime, and so I did all the
things, got married, hadchildren and then finished
school.
So I did it the hard way, notthe wrong way, but the hard way.
I'm from Nashville, came hereand I worked in the music
(15:28):
business in Nashville and so Iworked on Music Row and with you
know all the seemed like allthe glamorous stuff singers,
songwriters, you know all thesefamous people and everything Met
a Texas guy and moved here.
So then I had to reinvent who Iwas.
Who am I now right?
So I came to the university andI was always an academic kid.
(15:48):
You know always very much thatperson, and so I did what I do
best, which is that you know Imean, I'm not a sports person.
You know I'm not.
I don't have all the othertalents.
That's my talent, right, or mygift.
So went to school and, as timewent on, got my bachelor's here
at UT Tyler.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Here at.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
UT.
Tyler, oh yes definitely Got mymaster's in 2009.
I had just had twins and thenpursued my PhD and graduated
with my PhD in 2015.
So I'm saying all that to saythat higher education has become
my career Again.
I know me best, but I came froma world of entertainment.
You know, all this was in myflashy, cool stuff, right?
(16:30):
But I never dreamed that.
You know I'd be doing this 25years later.
You know, and it has been sucha blessing to me and to my
family, you know, and I'm afirst-generation college student
Mom and dad neither graduatedhigh school, both have GEDs.
So I'm saying all that to saythat they were the most
(16:50):
supportive people ever, but theyalso are very vocational type
individuals.
So, as much as I sit here witha PhD and such a proponent of
higher education, I equally havea heart for those who do
vocational work, because we needthem all.
We need all of us to make thiswork, and so sometimes, believe
it or not, college is not foreverybody, and it's OK.
(17:13):
It's OK that it may not be foryou.
So, again, I've been there.
I've had to rethink about who Iam, what's important to me,
what's practical, and I startedout one way had changed my major
.
So all those things.
From personal experience, I cantell the students it's okay if
you change your major.
Don't feel like you weren'tsmart enough or you weren't good
(17:34):
enough.
Thing is, you've got talent.
I believe this firmly, thateverybody was born with a gift
or gifts you know, and so youwill find that.
You will find it, andoftentimes you know what it is,
but you're afraid to take thenext step and go.
Well, what can I do with thisgift, though?
You know, what can I do withthis talent, and so it's such a
(17:55):
thing for me.
I'm so passionate about itbecause I lived it.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Well, and I'm really glad you tell that story,
because all of us have stories.
Mine was that I did finishcollege before I got married,
but then I went straight on toworking with my first husband in
education at a different level,and then one day I woke up and
realized I felt like I was at adead end and I wanted more.
(18:21):
Everybody said, well, there'sno jobs in higher education
right now.
And I said, but I love to study, I love to learn.
But I changed my major threetimes in college.
I was pre-med and I had highmath scores and I ended up being
an English major.
But in between times I was ahistory major and then I was an
American studies major and thenfinally, I was an English
(18:42):
literature major.
But I kept following you knowthe strengths, but also the
things that interested me,because the thing I always want
to tell my students is that youwant to find a job that will
feed you not just yourpocketbook, but will feed your
soul and your intellect for along, long time.
(19:02):
But I found that my earlyteaching career just wasn't
getting me there and I wasteaching at really fine
independent schools in Dallas,texas.
They were beautiful places,they were smart people.
I was respected, the kids weremotivated, their parents were
motivated.
I was respected, the kids weremotivated, their parents were
motivated.
But I hit some sort of apersonal wall and so I went to
(19:23):
grad school and they said you'llnever find a college job.
And I just went I'm doing itanyway, you know, and I went
through a lot and I was prettyimpoverished for a while.
But one of the things thathappened is OK.
When I finally did finish mydegree and oh and I'll just add
this halfway through my PhD work, I got cancer and everybody
(19:45):
thought I was going to die and Ithought, well, I sure don't
want to do that right now.
So I finished up and went out onthe job market and there were
over 250 graduates that year inmy field and there were five
jobs in the whole country andI'm going.
Well, I guess there wasn'tmeant to be.
No, I'm going to try anyway.
And I chose to apply to threeof them and I got interviewed by
(20:13):
three of them and I got offeredtwo of the jobs.
One of them was University ofColorado R1 school, very
prestigious.
I didn't want to go to thatplace.
I didn't want to do that kindof work, I was really ready to
get back in the classroom.
Another one was Middlebury,which is a fabulous liberal arts
college, like where I'd gone,but it was way up in the far
northeast and it was freezingcold up there.
You know, I ruled those out andI went for the three ones in
(20:35):
the middle and one was UT Tylerand I've been, like you, 25
years here and I've watched theplace grow and change and it has
grown and changed around me.
To some extent the job I thoughtI'd signed up for is not the
same that I do now, but I havebeen able to do what I think I'm
pretty good at.
So when I look back at thepeople who said, you'll never
(20:56):
get a job if you have somebodywho says go ahead and try it,
like you're doing for us, likeyour office is doing for us, but
also helping students to findthe connections, because
sometimes you just don't knowwhat's going on out there.
So, for example, you know, hereyou are Ebony.
(21:24):
I think you've settled on thefact that you're pretty good at
being a college teacher and youwant to keep doing it.
But guess what?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
It's still a stepping stone, like now I'm an adjunct
professor.
I'm getting obviously somecareer steps in, but getting to
that next step of becoming afull time professor is the
middle part of doing all thethings.
An adjunct professor isbasically a part time professor
(21:53):
where usually you teachthe-level English courses 1301,
1302, that are core courses thatall majors have to take and
because of that there's usuallya lot of them.
So usually colleges hireadjuncts to teach those sort of
courses because we can't have asbig of class sizes.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Right.
English classes at that levelhave to be small, so we've got
to have a lot of teachers, butwe never know from semester to
semester how many teachers weneed right.
So that's one of the slipperyparts about this step in your
career.
But you are training to be afull-time lecturer, or perhaps
if you go on the PhD right.
So from the job skillsstandpoint it's a good step.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Oh, 100%, 100% it's funny you should say that about
pursuing advanced education, andso that too is a part of our
office in that we help studentsget there.
So that may mean kind ofnavigating what an adjunct
faculty position may look like,kind of how to get your feet wet
, how to get your foot in thedoor, but then getting ready to
(22:57):
submit your statements ofadmission for PhD programs.
We work with students insubmitting their letters for
admission to medical school,pharmacy school, you name it.
So again, that's all part ofcareer development.
Pursuing higher education ispart of it.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Also, you were telling us, before we started
recording, that you're startingto apply now for next year's set
of jobs.
And here's the woman her office, her coaches can help you sort
that out.
You don't just have to take iton by yourself anymore.
Tell us what the task is, Ebonyfirst.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Well, right now I'm applying for full-time positions
, but those positions are alittle more difficult at my
level because I only have amaster's.
So in most college-level jobsare usually looking for someone
that they can tenure, so PhDstudents.
But you can get a job.
Usually it's like a lecturer atthat level and right now at our
(23:55):
college we have a lecturerposition opening that I am
applying for.
But there's also a position atTJC.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Tjc is our local junior college, tyler Junior
College, but yeah, and then, ofcourse, there are like dual
credit positions.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
So those are the kind of jobs I'm looking at now,
because I would like to have afull-time position before I
start getting my PhD.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Right, and I think for our office, in a case like
yours and even if it wasn'tEbony, but let's say it's
someone else who is in thattransition period, if you will
the goal is to show the employerhow valuable you are right and
then where your pursuits couldtake you.
I'm also adjunct faculty hereat the university, so I can
speak to that a little bit too.
(24:39):
I'm the only staff member withthe PhD, but that is valuable in
that I can impart that tostudents to kind of help them
find ways to get their foot inthe door.
They're not quite thereacademically yet because they're
generally young, like you, andthey're still going through the
motions, going through theschoolwork and things like that.
But it's a matter of tellingthat employer how valuable you
(25:01):
are right and kind of knowingwhere you want to go.
They'd be crazy not to want totake you right, and so that's
our job is to help you put thaton paper.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
And do you also help with things like credentialing,
so, for example, if you know howto use AI or if you know how to
use Canva or our variouslearning management systems, so
there are things like that.
You can help students to kindof build their resume.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yes, definitely.
So one thing is really hittinghome on your skills, so I want
to mention that.
So if there are particularplatforms that you use and I
don't necessarily mean you,ebony, but any student uses that
pertains to the industry thatthey want to go into, that again
is why the coach comes backinto play.
That coach knows what thoseplatforms are.
(25:45):
They know the language, youknow everything's got an acronym
, you know in differentindustries.
But being able to then makesure that student puts the
correct language on the resumeso that the employer knows that,
it's very important inengineering because there are a
lot of systems, a lot oftechnology goes into play there
Our health care, our nursingstudents.
There's a lot of specificjargon they use and that's also
(26:10):
really important because wetalked about just the nature of
the workforce how much it haschanged.
I'm 52 years old, so I've beenaround the block just once so
far.
But it's different when youapply for jobs now.
So a lot of industry they useapplication tracking systems and
they're called ATS.
That's the letters we use,right?
But what that boils down to isa lot of these larger
(26:32):
organizations and companies theyhave an online platform where
the applicant will submit theirresume, cover letter, that kind
of thing.
Well, if the resume doesn'thave the correct skills listed,
acronyms used, things like that,that system will automatically
spit the application and resumeout, so that individual never
(26:52):
gets a first look.
Now remember, this is not aperson doing this.
This is a technology, a machine.
So we as a staff have tounderstand about these
application tracking systems.
We have to know which companiesuse them and to make sure that
your resume is absolutely thebest it can be right to give you
the best shot at gettingreviewed.
So knowing about the technologythat's used when it comes to
(27:15):
recruiting is super importantfor us, and also knowing a
little bit about the acronyms,the technology that's used in
some of these industries.
We're not experts in thoseareas, but we have to have a
little bit of knowledge about it, and we get that from meeting
with the employers.
So it's incumbent upon us tomake sure we know what the
employers are looking for,otherwise we're of really no use
(27:35):
to you, the student.
You know We've got to know whatthey're looking for.
That's the best way to set thestudent up for success Knowing
the technology, the platforms,that is, and then understanding
or having the student understandwhy it's important, and then
being able to put that on paper.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I would think the other thing too is it's lonely
looking for a job, you know, andnow you've got a coach and
Rosemary's staff there with allthese things available.
I think we did something prettyamazing, though We've done it
(28:15):
for several years now.
The Career Conference.
You want to tell us a littlebit about the Career Conference?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yes, absolutely so.
Every year since 2018, we'vehad a Career Success Conference
and it's a very unique type ofevent.
It functions very much like anytype of professional conference
that anyone would go to, nomatter what industry Generally
about 100 or so speakers, and sothere are individual sessions.
Type of professional conferencethat anyone would go to, no
matter what industry Generallyabout a hundred or so speakers,
and so there are individualsessions.
Students choose the sessionsthey'd like to attend.
(28:41):
It's a one-day event and thesespeakers are from all walks of
life and all industry, and it'sbeen our goal to really make
sure we have speakers thatreflect our academic areas.
So we want to make sure all ofour students have at least one
person there, right, that speakstheir language or they can see
(29:01):
oh, that's what a career in thatindustry is like, right and so
they're generally mid-levelmanagement to C-suite type
individuals.
What's C-suite Executive level?
And it was a goal of mine tobring back a lot of our alum,
because what better way to showthe student look, you know,
here's Johnny.
He was here just five years ago, graduated with an English
(29:24):
degree, and look at him now heis now at the ABC affiliate in
Dallas.
You know, writing theirstoryboards or whatever you know
, writing for their shows,producing their shows, things
like that.
So there was no better way, wethought, than to bring some of
our alum back.
So over half of all of ourspeakers were alumni, successful
alumni, and, like I said, yousee some alum that come back or
(29:48):
any of the speakers for thatmatter and they're young.
Some of them are my age andolder.
We want seasoned veterans, wewant people who've been around
the block twice, you know, whocan show the student what it's
like.
But we also want a young crowdtoo.
So when, let's say, we have an18-year-old student, you know,
if they see someone who's 25,they can relate to them honestly
(30:11):
, just so much easier.
You know they can say, oh, infive years I could be doing that
.
Oh my gosh.
Of course there's nothing moregenuine than an organic
relationship.
When it is naturally built andyou don't force a mentor and a
mentee together, they reallydon't click and that kind of
thing.
At this event we had speakerswho saw Ebony, you know, and
(30:32):
they were like, oh my gosh, theystarted a conversation, really
personally clicked.
Then they found out what thestudent wanted to do and then,
lo and behold, at the end of theconference I've got a phone
number.
I then can go to lunch withthis individual.
I've got somebody who can talkto me when I, let's say, my
family is not around to askthese questions of, or whatever,
and then I've got somebody thatthey really do have my best
(30:54):
interest at heart.
So we've seen a lot ofrelationships being created like
that.
Also, what it did, it allowedour alumni to come back and so
they're giving by way of theirtime, and that was a big piece
of it.
But it also allowed ourstudents to have again a foot in
the door at some of thesebusinesses and organizations.
So these were, like I said,mid-level to corporate level
(31:15):
executives, things like that.
Well, they're at thesecompanies, running these
companies, they know whatthey're looking for, they know
the type of talent they'rewanting.
Well, now we've got a direct inwith that organization, that
company.
We've seen so many successfulrelationships being built.
We've seen students go intointernships and full and
part-time positions with thesecompanies by way of that
(31:37):
conference.
It's just a magical day,because how often do we get to
do?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
this.
I was at the very first onewhen you all started it and I
thought it was a great idea.
And we literally call offclasses.
Most of us do, some peopledon't.
The one thing I will say isthat I was really surprised at
how few of my students used itlast year, which surprised me,
because I could tell that youall worked really, really hard
to streamline it for the majors.
(32:03):
That's a common problem withcollege students.
You can bring them to the water.
You can't always make themdrink.
And when I listen to whatyou've done and I think about
what wasn't available eightyears ago or nine years ago and
what is available and you know,the big crisis for higher
education right now is it costsso much and what are you going
to do when you get out.
Well, you're telling us we'llhelp you find what you're going
(32:26):
to do and we're not going tojust find a job, we're going to
find a career.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Just thinking about how the job market is different
now and it is overwhelming tothe student and I know that I
have kids that go to UT Tylercurrently, and I have a daughter
who's already graduated and Ihave to stay in tune with the
job market, just as their mom.
You know, I want to make sure Iknow what they've got to look
forward to and things like that,but it is overwhelming for the
(32:55):
students.
There's so much that we allwant to teach the students so
much in an academic year andthere's obviously never enough
time to do it all you know.
And so being prepared for lifeis one thing.
You know.
Students come here all the timeand they're not ready for life,
you know.
And then you've got the load ofcoursework and things like that
(33:15):
, and then all of that buildsand then all of a sudden it's
time to find a job or a career,and so looking for a job is a
full-time job.
I can speak for all of my stafffor sure.
We very much recognize that.
We also have seen by way of ourwork that the support system is
(33:36):
not the same in every familyfor every student, and I go back
to the holistic approach inthat you truly have to have a
heart for this work and to bewilling to sit there and, for
one, just listen to what's goingon in their lives but then also
know the resources to directthem to the right places so they
can get help with these otherthings that are not in my world,
(33:59):
but being a resource for themand being a support system for
them.
We all have heard this and weknow people in our own lives the
nuclear family mom, dad, threekids and a dog kind of thing and
everybody's happy and it's, youknow, unicorns and rainbows.
That's not real, you know.
I mean, everybody's gotsomething going on, everybody's
(34:19):
got a story.
It's just really the way we seeit.
Again, it's just it is what ourwork, it is what we do and what
we love.
But you've got to be willing tobe their support, and a lot of
the students just they just wantto come back and go.
It's almost like saying, hey,mom, is that okay?
What do you think about this?
I wrote that.
Now, is that all right?
And it just takes three minutesto sit there and go.
You know what?
(34:40):
I love that, or you know what?
Let's word it this way, youknow, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Now, Ashley, what are you thinking about all this?
I bet you've got a lot ofquestions.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Well, I mean, actually y'all did a fantastic
job of answering a ton of thequestions that I came here
wondering about.
Part of the whole reason that Iasked you about this, I was
like, hey, we should do a careersuccess episode is because,
even though I'm just a sophomore, I'm trying to think about how
to get into the workforce, likewhat that experience is going to
be, like what things I can doto prepare, and I knew the
(35:25):
career success office was here.
I didn't really know much elseabout it.
The first time I went in therewas to knock on the door and
drop off our card and be likedoes anyone want to do this?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
podcast episode.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
No, we saw it and the first thing we said we're like,
oh my God, this is amazing, youknow and so that was all I was
really curious about is findingsome of the experiences that
students have getting into theworkforce, finding, you know,
like you were talking about acareer that you love and not
just a job.
Me personally, I feel like I'malmost in a weird place there
(35:57):
because, like I love movies, myend goal is to have a film
production studio, and it's likeone of those jobs that doesn't
make any money.
Until it makes money, it's aninvestment for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Well, I remember you said to me once that when you
were getting ready to come tocollege, everybody talked about
STEM.
The only place you could getjobs was STEM, and here you were
more of a creative person andyou weren't sure there was going
to be anything out there foryou.
And it sounds to me as thoughDr Cooper's office, dr Cooper's
folks, are the ones that canhelp you find those things.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
To that point.
You talked going off into thiscreative industry and all that,
and of course I'm all about that, I love it.
That's what it sounds likeyou're wanting to do.
We had a lot of other studentswith the same dreams like that,
you know, and so what we've beenable to do is to find
peripheral industries orperipheral jobs.
That again, it gets thatindividual in that industry.
(36:52):
They may not be the filmmaker,they may be what do you call it?
A gaffer.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Showrunner or gaffer.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
So I mean you may start out there doing that,
right, but your end goal is tobe a filmmaker, right.
So we've had that experiencewhere we now go and find those
peripheral roles or industriesthat connect to the one you want
to be in, because the onesyou're talking about in
particular, you're right, itdoesn't make money until you're
(37:21):
really in that final role.
That's where you're really inyour superstar.
You know at that point, right,and so what we have to do is
kind of walk the middle line, ifyou will, in helping the
student understand the practicalnature of it all, and then the
other side of it is neverdeterring them from what they
really want to end up doing.
(37:42):
But we try to be the voice ofreason, you know.
I mean you got to be use commonsense in a lot of this.
You know, it's just that,absolutely, there's absolutely
no way you should ever give upthat dream.
But you got to be practical andhow are you going to get there?
So that helps us kind ofestablish those steps for them.
You know we offer the careerassessments and some people may
say, oh, career assessments,whatever, right, they are truly
(38:05):
helpful because some of them aremore of an interest inventory
that we talked about.
Others really highlight thestudents' strengths.
So what were the natural giftsthey were given?
Right, what are those?
And then try to build on thestrengths you know.
Don't find all the things thatyou can't do and try to build on
those.
You want to build on the thingsthat you are already naturally
(38:25):
good at doing.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I just wanted to give Ebony or Ashley a chance to see
other questions or things thatyou would love to hear from Dr
Cooper about.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Well, I guess I would start by saying I think that
student engagement is sodifficult and now I'm teaching
and I see it and I'm like God,was this how I was?
And on a certain extent, yes,because I feel like what I'm
learning now is like there wasthis huge resource that I could
have used.
That I didn't, maybe early on Ididn't know, but I definitely
(38:59):
did.
By grad school I definitelyknew, and I think that for me it
was like this sense of I don'tneed help with that and I you do
.
I feel like if I am going togive anybody anything in this,
it's that you do.
Looking for a job is not easy.
It is a lot.
(39:19):
Honestly, I think it helps alittle bit that I am an English
major, because it's a lot.
It's way more writing intensivethan you would think, but it
doesn't always intuitive, likepeople think they'll just know
what skills people are lookingfor.
You don't.
So I can say that for anybodylistening.
Do not take it at face valuethat you think, oh, I know what
(39:39):
I need to do, because youprobably don't Go ahead and
reach out and ask for help andtake advantage of these
resources while you have them.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
You've just given so much like wonderful information
as we're starting to close it.
Is there like a piece of advicefor preparation for finding
your career or what to do asyou're getting ready to get out
of college?
Speaker 3 (40:02):
For me this is what I tell the students that I see
the students in my actualclasses is never discount
something you've done.
It may be something you've donein the classroom, it may be
something you've done as avolunteer, it may be an actual
job you've held, but neverdiscount those things because
(40:25):
they all add up to somethingright.
I've had students tell me justthe other day in class.
One of my students said I askedhim where do you work?
Oh, I just work the frontcounter at the gym at our
Harrington Patriot Center andI'm like you don't just do
anything, you work the frontcounter at the Harrington
Patriot Center is what you do.
Look at all the customerservice skills.
(40:47):
I don't even know you and I cantell you this huge, long list
of things that you know how todo, because you told me that
there's so much that we all havedone.
Don't discount your story, whoyou are and what you've done,
because it is all valuable andjust let us help you put it in
writing.
So that's my two cents.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So well, that was pretty interesting.
I enjoyed that.
I guess that's a wrap, ashley.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
Yes, ma'am, this has been the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningin with us today, and if you
have questions about collegelife or any of the topics that
we were talking about today,please send us your questions to
adrquestions at gmailcom.
We'd love to hear from you.
In the meanwhile, we'll see youin the next episode.
Thank you very much.
This is Ashley Wortley signingoff.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Bye-bye.
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