October 9, 2023 • 51 mins
How well have you strategized your college journey? What are you doing to ensure you're not only surviving but thriving during these transformative years? Episode 11 of our podcast features an enlightening conversation with Professor Vanessa Joyner and student Elena Gonzalez, who share their wisdom and personal experiences on successfully navigating college life. From goal setting to effective time management and the indispensable role of good counseling – this episode promises a treasure trove of practical advice and tips.
Elena takes us on her college journey, where she entered with no specific goal in mind and the strategies she implemented to structure her activities around the skills she needed for her major. She also reveals her secrets to effective time management, how she prioritizes tasks, and the value she found in supplementing reading with audiobooks. Professor Joyner offers valuable insights into setting goals, timing oneself to gauge reading speed, and the importance of work experience. She shares how even jobs unrelated to a student's field of study can teach life skills and improve communication.
As we bring the episode to a close, Elena and Professor Joyner delve into the psychological aspects of success. Discussing the importance of overcoming fear, seeking help, relentlessly pursuing goals, and understanding your audience, especially in fields like graphic design. They share how they dealt with anxiety and the impact it had on their lives. Wrapping up the episode, we have a Q&A with Dr. Ross, discussing the power of full investment in studies and the benefits of taking risks. Don’t forget to send in your questions and suggestions for future topics!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
Systems Academy of DistinguishedTeachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Her co-host and multimediaeditor, nathan Witt, provides a
(00:26):
student perspective.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
Texas at Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, I'm Catherine Ross, and this is a podcast for
parents, students in school whoare thinking about going to
college, college students whoare already here, adults who are
thinking of maybe going back tocollege and really anyone who
wants to know more about whatlife in colleges and
universities is like today inthe US of A.
I'm here with my friend, nathanWitt, who's a student here.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
If you'd like to ask Dr Ross a question, you can
email us atADRquestionsatgmailcom.
Today we're going to talk to aprofessor and a student more
about what the collegeexperience is like, some do's
and don'ts, some suggestions andideas.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, and we're excited to have our panel today.
One of them is professor ofinstruction Vanessa Joyner, my
friend and pal.
She is in the department ofcommunication Before she came to
UT Tyler.
For 20 years she was aprofessional graphic designer
AT&T and she still does contractwork for award-winning graphic
design.
(01:36):
Our other guest is Ms ElenaGonzalez, also one of my
favorite people, a student inthe English department.
She's an English major butshe's got two other minors.
She's doing language andtechnology, and which does a
little bit about how she knowshow to organize her time and be
a good student.
Another bit of informationabout why she's such a good
student and why she's going togive us such good advice is
she's in the Honors College andshe's also been selected to be
(01:58):
an Archer Fellow in the programthat sends students to go to
Washington DC to learn aboutgovernment and all the stuff
they do in Washington DC.
I've also been just informedthat she's otherwise involved.
She's on the leadership team ofour student newspaper, the Talon
, and it's even served instudent government.
(02:19):
So this is a young woman whoknows how to handle a
complicated, busy schedule andstill make A's in her classes.
We're going to ask them todayabout their top dos and don'ts
for succeeding in college, butnot just getting good grades in
college, but also being happyand getting the best out of the
(02:40):
experience, because we all knowthat college is a lot more than
obtaining some learning skillsand some knowledge.
We'll let you start out,professor Joyner.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Okay, I'll start out with they should have a goal,
and if you have too many goals,narrow it down.
I would try to make it relatedgoals, in other words, not
choose to be an architect and anEnglish major.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Or be a perfect A plus student.
So that's what I'm curiousabout, vanessa what are the
goals you're thinking of?
A long-term goal as aprofession, or a short-term goal
to pass Dr Ross's English class?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
To me, start with the long-term goal, because in
trying not to get too caught upinto the details, because as you
go along you're going to findout what you like and what you
do not like For some people itputs too much pressure on them
and I've seen students who haveanxiety and I think it is
(03:42):
because sometimes they'relooking at different people,
they're wanting to be differentpeople instead of just following
their own game plan.
For me, I was just an artist.
I loved it and anything relatedto it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I liked it Well you remind me of a line that someone
told me once which was actuallya student who said it which was
comparison is a thief of joy,and so that's a good thing to
remember too.
So, elena, did you start outwith a goal, or have you only
developed one over the time thatyou've been here?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
It definitely was a process to develop a goal.
When I came into college, I wasmajoring in marketing and I
didn't really know what I wantedto do with that, and after
switching the English, I startedto narrow it down more, and so
now, whenever I choose myactivities and the things that I
do, I try to structure itaround the skills that I can use
(04:35):
to succeed as an English majorand in a career down the line.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yes.
So I want to ask ProfessorJoyner, in your experience, what
are good strategies you've seento coming up with that goal?
Because I think that's a lot ofquestion marks for students
when they first come in is okay.
How do I even figure out whatmy goal is?
How do I figure out what thatlong term idea is?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, the next thing on my list was having good
counseling, Starting out withyour high school counselors.
Another thing to look at arepeople in your family who have
done what you want to do.
What about the collegegraduates that are in your
family?
Have you talked to them?
It doesn't mean you have tofollow their path, but listen to
(05:19):
them, Take away what you can.
And because I had there's toomuch to go into with nine
siblings, but I had a sister twoyears older than me but I was
too competitive with her, so Iknew I had to go to a different
college.
Plus, she was analytical mathand I was artistic.
(05:44):
So it's just a matter ofsitting back and listening to
your counselors.
Hopefully, have a counselor whois plugged into you, who will
listen to you and what it is youwant to do and then direct you.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
And that's super important.
That's something that we talkedabout when we talked about
counseling, that I think a lotof students don't realize how
important it is that yourcounselor is plugged into you,
like you said, like really knows.
If you only show up for thoselittle short meetings and you're
trying to get out the door asquick as possible, then they
can't advise you in the best way.
So I think that's, I thinkthat's great.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
We had an episode before.
We talked to some of theacademic advisors, and they're
the ones who have to get youthrough, but they also want to
get you through doing whatyou're good at, and it sounds
like you started out already.
You were already good at artbefore you ever set your foot in
the door of any college, right?
So you had a goal built in.
(06:41):
Sounds like you started out notsure what you wanted to do yet,
and that's often what happenswith college students, isn't it?
They come in and they know I'vegot to go to college and by the
time I'm finished I've got tobe able to have something to do
that will bring some income.
But most of you, many of youdon't know, and so Finding a
goal for you, professor Joyner,was a little easier, because you
(07:05):
already knew something aboutyour talents.
Finding a goal for you waspartly a matter of testing the
waters of different classes, Ibet.
So how'd you get from amarketing to an English?
Speaker 5 (07:15):
major.
Funny, I ended up switchingafter the first semester because
I took several classes wherethe assignments were heavily
writing based, and I found thatI did a lot better in writing
based classes than I did in,maybe, data entry or things that
are just purely analytical andnumerical, and my professors
(07:37):
would tell me oh, you're reallygood at whatever subject it is
history, economics and I'd bethinking to myself I'm really
not, though, and then I realizedI was just good at writing, and
so I decided to switch toEnglish and pursue writing
further.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, a lot of times, students will come to college
and they are like you.
They're good at a lot of things, but it's a choice between what
you're good at and what you'regood at and you enjoy doing.
Did you have a first thing thatwas on the top of your list?
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yes, top of my list was definitely.
Scheduling your time issomething you have to do.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Certainly.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And given your schedule, that's been absolutely
essential, hasn't it?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
For me, it was starting to write it down as
soon as I find out, whether it'sassignments or work scheduling,
event scheduling or even justsomething fun that you want to
do.
Just put it in your calendar,because later, whenever someone
asks you to do something andyou're looking on your calendar,
you want to see everything soyou can know when to say yes or
no.
And also, I found out that forme, I set a bunch of alarms to
(08:39):
remind myself when to go toclass, when to go to work, when
to go to certain things, and soI have to keep that updated
every day.
But it's totally worth it,because nothing is more
attention catching than yourlittle alarm going off and you
saying what am I supposed to bedoing?
And you leave the little noteand where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So do you have a paper calendar and a phone
calendar, or just on your phoneand your computer?
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I mostly keep it on my phone just because I carry it
with me everywhere, but I dohave a paper calendar at home.
That's not quite ascomprehensive, but I do like to
keep it as well.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I started keeping a calendar in college about only
my senior year, which one of myfriends had one of those neat
little calendars that had thepages and the hours and all that
stuff.
And I've found that ever sincethen I've always had one.
Do you have a calendar, DrJoyner?
Both, Both.
Yeah, there you go.
What about you, Nathan?
Did you ever use one?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, so you're referring to the daily planner
that has the.
I've done that for a long time.
I actually built my own justbecause I'm a little
dysfunctional.
That's the only thing I wasgoing to ask you.
It's definitely the strengththat I need is being better at
scheduling.
I wanted to ask you, becauseyou have so much you're involved
with what is prioritizing orcoming up with your rank of
(09:55):
priority what does that looklike?
Because obviously you're goingto have schedule conflicts with
everything you do.
How do you sort that out?
What does that look like?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Well, this year it was trial by fire, because
whenever I started, this is thefirst year I really got involved
on campus and it was reallydifficult to figure out how to
schedule all those moving partstogether, and so for me, school
is, 99% of the time, thepriority.
So I'm going to make it theclass, I'm going to make it to
my things that I need to do forschool, and then after that I
(10:24):
just take it on a situationalbasis to see is this something I
can miss?
I try to communicate with mysupervisors, professors whatever
I'm missing to see if it'ssomething I really need to be at
or if it's something that I canmake up later.
For the most part, whenever Ido choose my involvements, I
really try to choose them in away that they don't overlap at
(10:47):
all, which also is verydifficult because things move
around, but really it's justabout each time reaching out,
seeing what's going on and howyou can either make up the thing
you're missing or if you evenneed to be there.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So you're talking there about managing a whole
life, not just classroom, butthe talent, the student
government, oh yeah.
The family and that it's boringa little bit harder on how you
keep up.
What is the best advice you cangive about how to keep up with
your class work?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Okay, yeah, so for classes, that's, as I said, my
priority, and so that's thefirst thing that I'm going to
make sure that I have done orhave time to do so for me, I
know it's a little bit differentthan non-English majors because
I have four English classes, soit's mostly reading at this
point.
But I first of all make surethat I know what all of my
(11:40):
assignments are.
I have my syllabus for eachclass printed out and I keep it
with me in my notebook, and Ijust carry around one notebook
with a bunch of different tabsthat I use for all my classes,
and I check that often, and so Ilike to plan ahead, make sure I
have time to get all of my workdone, and if I don't, then
something else needs to be takenout or missed, and then after
(12:01):
that you just have to do it,even when it's really hard.
This is also on my list, but Isaid, another do is to learn how
you learn, because everyonelearns differently, and for me,
I only found out this secondsemester of junior year that I
will get through my reading if Ihave an audio recording of the
reading, and if I don't, thenI'm going to have a really hard
(12:21):
time getting through it and it'sgoing to be different for
everyone.
Some people take better noteson paper, some people learn at
once, some people want to spreadit out over burst of energy,
and it's really just finding outwhat you need to do.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, I'd like to add a couple things to that too.
One thing I always ask mystudents to do in English class
is worth reading and I think Iasked your class to do it too is
to get out one of the booksthat you've been assigned to
read and time yourself readingtwo pages.
Did you ever do that?
Oh well, maybe you should have,because I figured it out for
myself is how long does it takeme to read a certain number of
(12:59):
pages?
I'll say, ok, I've got to read30 pages, and I know it's going
to take me how many minutes, andespecially if you're doing a
lot of reading that way.
The other thing is, sometimesprofessors will give you a long
term assignment and it's justdue at the end of the semester,
and sometimes they'll say, ok,in two weeks I want the
bibliography, in two more weeksI want the outline, in two more
(13:22):
weeks I want a draft.
But not everybody does that,and so that's another real good
thing is to set yourself thosethat kind of fits with you were
saying, vanessa, about goals.
Is setting up some goals,learning how you learn?
I want you to talk about that alittle bit more.
You and I share this.
I like to listen to a book too,but how'd you figure that out?
(13:42):
I?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
don't remember I what book was it?
It might have been Persuasion.
Actually, I think it waswhenever we were reading
Persuasion.
And some of the more modernbooks don't have free audios
just because they're copyrightedor they're specific to apps or
whatever.
But the older books, like JaneAusten or Mary Shelley, they're
going to have free readings onYouTube and you can adjust the
(14:08):
speed and it's really nice andthat's the first book.
I remember pulling up andspecifically being like I'm
going to use the audio the wholetime and I got through that
book.
And I'll admit, in some of mypast classes I didn't get
completely through all of mybooks and this year was the
first time that I felt like Icould and it was really nice to
(14:29):
have that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I have to admit that I never finished Moby Dick as an
undergraduate.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Never finished it, but in those days we didn't have
didn't have so many audiobooksbut.
But you're saying that you dothe audiobook, but you also read
the book, right?
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, at the same time yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Oh, along with it, huh and.
I will.
I want to pinpoint that thingyou said about adjusting the
speed.
A part of learning how youlearn that's been a big thing
for me is with all the videos.
Professor Joiner, you're one ofthem who sends video
instructions and I have figuredout that I can pay attention if
I turn the speed up still and Ican follow still the videos and
(15:05):
can maybe get through them alittle faster if I'll turn up
that speed a little bit.
So that's a little, I feel,like life hack for college
students.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's not just your generation that does that, I do
it too.
You turn up the speed, oh yeah.
I do Good, I don't know howfast you turn it up Well.
So so we've got a couple reallygood bits of best advice.
Let's hear some more.
You want to tell us something,professor Joiner?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Game work experience, oh, and preferably related work
experience.
But if life necessitates thatyou have a variety of jobs, make
the most of it.
There's even for something assimple I should say as simple.
(15:48):
I waitressed for a while.
So did I, and one of thebiggest things I learned from
being a waitress is making themost of my time.
In other words, as a waitressI've worked at places like
Fridays and even Denny's and LosAmigos, etc.
(16:09):
But when I went to the back, wealways learned to save steps.
So when you go to the back, ifthere's several tables you're
waiting on, you take care of asmuch as you can with those
tables while you're at the back,to save steps the same
principle.
I've learned to use that inlife.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah safe.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And in academics in school, okay, as a graphic
designer, save steps.
So even back in the day when wedidn't have the computers and I
had stacks of this is how mydesk look stacks of jobs you
look for what can I do quick?
What can I do to reduce theworkload?
(16:52):
So, in other words, don't beatyourself up that I'm not doing
something related to my field asa student.
Just know that is going to helpyou one day and I guess, so you
can have peace.
I've been a security guard as astudent.
A lot of jobs, a driver, adelivery driver I've done a lot.
(17:14):
So anyway, that was my other todo and, if the students know me
, I'm always looking out forjobs.
As a teacher, I'm always alsoput out emails, so, and so is
hiring.
So and so is hiring.
Come to me if you're interested.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So, would you say, for incoming students,
professors would be a good placeto try to find connections to
relevant work experience.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I'm always doing it, probably to an extreme.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, that's interesting.
You brought it up, becausethat's certainly something a lot
of us have been asked to domore recently is to try to find
internships for students, and wehave these career offices that
we talked about before, andthat's part of their job is to
help us find them, too, becausewe realize that, although most
of us academics were trained toteach a subject and don't know
(18:02):
much about job searches and allthat sort of stuff, that, in
fact, that's what you all needto get going on.
The thing that you said, though,about working smart if you're
back in the back of the kitchenand there's three different
tables, you need to set up inthe same way.
I know, for example, when I'mdoing my research and I bet you
probably do this too I may havetwo different projects I'm
(18:23):
working on.
I go to the library and I dothe research for the, the
education book, and then I dothe research for the Romantics
book, and so that's a way ofworking smart.
Have you figured out to do that, too, in your classes, or if
you got any of these work hacks?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I definitely agree.
It's good to separate projects.
Whenever I save articles on mythe little library page where
you can find the researcharticles, I put them in tabs as
well by my projects, becausethey're a lot easier to find
that way and work on it one timeand not get distracted with
other ones.
In addition to that, I alsoworked in food service and
(19:02):
retail from when I was 16 and Iagree it's a very formative
experience and I think morepeople should experience it
because it teaches you a lot oflife skills that you can use in
every area.
Like I feel like I wouldn't bethe same person if I hadn't done
those things, because if youthink I'm shy now, you should
(19:22):
have seen me when I was 15,before I started a job at
firehouse subs, and learn how tointeract with people.
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, it is you have to.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
A million people you got to interact with every day.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well, and part of learning and part of classroom
work is interacting with yourclassmates yeah since COVID, a
lot of students have far fewercommunication skills and they're
much more comfortablecommunicating on their phone
than they are with the peoplesitting right next to them.
Have you experienced that?
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yes, and I'm like you .
I'm so glad I had opportunitiesto do jobs where I had to
interact with people because, asyou too, in college I was very
shy, so much so that whensomeone saw me later in life,
this person said to me you talk,you used to not talk.
(20:15):
I was very shy, scared of theworld, even though I had nine
siblings.
I could talk to them, butoutside of the nine and I was
like an athlete, but I was in myzone as an athlete, so I ran
and I was competitive as anathlete but and everybody knew
(20:35):
me, but I was very shy.
But I tell students you need totalk to people to succeed.
You cannot be an island.
You need customers, you have tolearn how to interact, and I
always talk to my students aboutpsychology too, and that
graphic design is a lot ofpsychology.
(20:56):
You have to almost read theminds of those talking to you.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I was watching a program the other day and it was
a teacher at a local publicschool.
Actually, I'm not sure where itwas, it might have been a
national thing but the teachersaid okay, I want everybody to
turn off your phones.
Put your phones down and justtalk to everybody in the room.
I talked to a couple people inthe room and these were high
school kids and some of them didit right away.
(21:23):
And he said but there was abunch who just froze, they just
didn't know how to do it and hehad to go around and help them
and prompt them.
And I've noticed that in myclasses too.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I think that I think students don't realize a lot of
times how much power they haveover the experience of the class
, and I also think that theydon't realize sometimes when you
have those groups that form forwhatever reason I think most of
the time it's not everintentional, it's just somehow
it's a perfect storm of chaoticenergy and they start to disrupt
(21:59):
the class.
You all don't know this, but Itook some time off of college
and now I've come back.
I'm a different student, but myfirst run I was one of those
kids who, if I felt like we hadthree or four people in the
class that would disrupt, likethat was my favorite thing and
hey, we're going to ruin thisclass and we're going to be a
productive.
I know you're making a face.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I know I was a bad student, and what you don't
realize when you're one of thosetype of students and that's who
I'm hoping, maybe I'm speakingto, or maybe I'm speaking to a
parent of one of those type ofstudents is you are paying for
this class, you're paying forthis experience and if you rob
yourself of it, you still getthe grade, a passing grade.
Squeeze it out, but you don'tlearn anything in the class.
(22:43):
You've just stolen informationfrom yourself.
You've not heard.
Maybe you've heard otherclassmates.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You have heard others .
You've hurt those students andI'll tell you what you do hurt
the teacher.
It really does disrupt theteacher's work.
The thing I want to say whenyou talk about like that, talk
like that is those are kids whoprobably don't belong in college
.
Yet.
If you are skeptical of collegeand there's a lot of that-
there's nothing wrong with abreak.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But here's what I was going to say is that there's a
lot of folks out there and partof the reason why we're doing
this podcast is a lot of peoplehave a real negative attitude
about higher education right now.
Cost too much, what's thereturn of my investment?
There's all that stuff going on.
What I think it's important torecognize is that if you're that
negative about going, save yourtime and your money and wait
(23:31):
and do like Nathan did step outfor a while.
There's no shame in that andtypically what I get when I get
a student who's come back afterbeing away for a while guess
what?
They are 10 times moreefficient.
They know better what they want.
They've got a goal, like yousaid, and they know better that
it's not so much better outthere than they thought and
(23:52):
they've come to realize thatthere's huge advantages to
college education and they'renot just doing because their
parents expected them to do it.
A lot of times they have alittle more just self-control
and that's the time to come.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I do want to say another thing about having that
negativity in your class is thatI feel like I find it's a
contagion, absolutely, and it'sa contagion that isn't happy
with keeping it to themselves.
They have to spread it In anyopportunity they can, to spread
(24:27):
the negative things about.
A lot of times about theteacher.
I've had people who did notlike me from week two and I knew
the semester was going to berough, the things that were said
and the attitude, and when it'slike that there's nothing you
could have done.
That person just has you intheir crosshairs.
(24:49):
But can I add just a couplemore things to do before we go
on?
I do think it's important totry to find a circle of friends
and also to be involved.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
You can talk about that, can't you?
That was also on my list to getinvolved and that looks
different for everyone, Irealized, because everyone has a
different situation, everyonehas a different schedule.
But as far as you can and asmuch as you can, I definitely
see the value in gettinginvolved, because my first year
of college was during COVID andI obviously didn't have a lot of
(25:25):
opportunities to get involvedand I joined honors late.
I joined organizations later,in those first two years.
I don't think we're quite asmeaningful as this year was, and
whenever you do get involved,you learn how to say yes and how
to self-advocate, which is oneof the most important things you
can learn from higher education, in my opinion.
So, yeah, definitely gettinginvolved, and it also
(25:47):
strengthens what you're tryingto do and how you're trying to
further your career and yourinterest.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
One of the things I always say to students one of
the first days of class is Iwant you to participate, I want
you to raise your hand, I wantyou to talk.
A lot of them, oh, don't makeme do that.
They're so afraid, and I pointout to them that, basically, by
not raising your hand, notadding your voice, you're
teaching everybody that youdon't think you matter, that you
don't count, and you're notlearning how, for example, to
(26:14):
ask for a raise one day when youneed to ask for a raise, and so
I love that.
You said self-advocate is animportant term, and I think
that's a big part of whatcollege is too is that they're
learning how to go from beingtheir parents' kid to being
their own human, their ownperson, and teaching them,
giving them experiences so theycan start to test that out.
(26:37):
And so let's hear a little bitabout from both of you students
that are here what are some ofthe moments where you started
saying it's me or nobody.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Well, for me it was definitely this year, during
student government elections,when I had the campaign for my
spot and like put up a littleposter with my picture on it, I
was terrified.
I was like, oh my goodness,this is so embarrassing.
I had to call my friend while Iwas putting the posters up
because I was so embarrassed.
I was like, oh my goodness,like I just feel so conceited
(27:10):
and self-inflated.
And then I reflected on itafter elections and I did get
the position and I was likethat's what you have to do.
You have to put yourself outthere, and it's not conceited to
do so, it's putting yourselfout there and it's just part of
life and part of being an adult,part of getting further in your
career and academic life.
It is really hard, but it'ssomething you have to learn to
(27:32):
do and it does have its benefitsfor sure.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think, a good thing to do, and actually we learned
this from Katherine Martinez,who talked to us about how to
help you get your students intocollege.
She said make a list of all thethings your kids do while
they're growing up.
That can be put on anapplication.
But in a sense, students incollege I ran for, and
successfully won, a studentgovernment position that list of
(27:56):
skills that I use.
They can dip back in that listand say I've learned how to
follow through.
I have learned how to look fordetails that matter.
If students will start to keeptrack of the actual things they
have accomplished every semester.
It's amazing how much stuff youdo that you forget.
You did Along with thatcalendar that you keep.
(28:18):
If you could learn to keepyourself some sort of a folder
of all the stuff you do, thenyou can use that when you're
starting to apply for jobs.
It really helps.
And we've talked a lot aboutjobs this time.
Instead of I thought we'd betalking about academic
excellence and what to do forclasswork and getting A's and
all that sort of stuff.
But ultimately that's whereyou're heading, isn't it?
(28:38):
It's to a life afterwards whereyou take all these skills that
you've created.
So how are we doing on our list?
Do we have some more to-dosthat we haven't covered?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Two more do's you got all your do's, huh.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Okay, you want to enumerate them one more time.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Just one, two, three, real quick, sure, my do's were
schedule your time, learn howyou learn best and get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, and your three do's, professor Joyner, have a
goal.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Listen to your counselors.
Develop good study habits.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Okay, we haven't really talked about good study
habits yet, have we?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I think Alana had some good points as far as how
she organized her life so thatshe took care of the most
important things first.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Thinking in terms of prioritizing doing the hardest
stuff first A lot of timespeople do the easy stuff we said
that and then also just gettingsleep eating well, getting
exercise If you're notphysically in good shape not
necessarily the world's greatestpower lift or anything like
(29:43):
that but just breathing andyou're not losing too much sleep
, then you're going to be abetter student.
Did you have any challengeswith any of that?
Do you have sleepless nightssometimes?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
I definitely had challenges with all of it.
Actually, eating healthy ishard in college because you have
to do it yourself.
Getting sleep is hard becauseyou do want to go out and stay
up late and talk to your friendsall night, or even just stay on
TikTok or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Oh, boy TikTok is the world's biggest time loop time
waster.
And boy, do I do it too.
You're on TikTok now.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Oh, I've been on it and off it and on it and off it,
and on it and off it all it'sterrible.
They call it doom scrolling.
There you go doom scrolling.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, the last time I went on it one of my students
and then I discovered two of mystudents and three of my
students have TikTok accounts,or whatever.
Sure, they all do, oh my God.
And then I had to start seeingwhat my students do in their
free time and I went you don'twant to see that, I didn't want
to see it, but anyway.
So we've got all of our do'sdown.
What are some of the big don'ts, professor?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Joyner, Starting with goals, not having a goal not
having a purpose.
It will just land you introuble.
You're going to sizzle out veryquickly, and especially for
when you're working on yourmasters, you must have a goal,
because a lot of that time whathappens is up to you.
(31:12):
There's not as much structureAt least it was not for me and
so it all comes from the heart,and then in those down times
it's that goal that keeps megoing.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
The thing I was thinking of when you were
talking about that is, evenwithin every class, you need to
know what you're trying to study.
A lot of times, I think,students get assignments and
they don't really know what isthe purpose of this.
How am I supposed to read thischapter in Persuasion by Jane
Austen, or what am I supposed tolook for?
And so, if you can eitherfigure that out on your own or
(31:49):
get the professor, ask theprofessor what am I looking for?
Or you know how, I give youthose class preparation
assignments to try to guide you,but a lot of times students
just don't know why they'redoing what they're being asked
to do.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Like what they're getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well what they're getting out of it.
But sometimes, just what am Isupposed to do with this poem?
What am I supposed to do withthis history chapter?
Where is it heading me?
How does it connect to whatI've studied before?
What do you want me to get outof it?
And so, on the one hand, that'son us faculty.
We've got to make clear tostudents what you're looking for
.
But if you're not sure, then Isay to students make your
(32:25):
professors tell you, ask them,why am I doing this?
Plytely, of course, not meangirls, but anyway.
So that was your first, don't.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yes, I just believe it just leads you to the wrong
places.
And if a student is not clear,ask the teacher.
Now I think from my classesthey're learning tools.
In the first class it's mainlytools.
I say a construction workerbefore he or she goes to build a
house.
If they're not familiar withtheir tools, there's not going
(32:56):
to be much constructing going on.
I believe that students have somuch available to create today,
so that's why they can feel alittle tedious, but for me it's
collecting jewels.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So what are some of the tools you're talking about
in your specific field?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Adobe Creative Suite application, knowing how the
different applications work, howthey're different.
And I tell students, as youlearn a new application, look at
the differences.
All applications are going tohave something in common, but
when you go to the next one,look at the differences, look at
the interface differences.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And if I can rabbit hole just a little bit, I know
because I just took your class,professor Joyner, that you don't
embrace programs like Canva.
Can I ask for you to help meunderstand that?
Because in my mind, as astudent and someone who has done
freelance with graphic designfor three years and has used
Canva and really enjoyed it asmuch as I've used the Adobe
(33:56):
Suite, I don't understand whyCanva can't be embraced.
That's cute.
Well, okay, you can laugh.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You're allowed to laugh at a student.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Am I allowed?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay, if you're laughing with him, not at him.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Well, you can laugh at me.
I got thick skin.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Well, that's the issue with graphic design or any
technical field is thatstudents are out here in the
world with their hands oneverything.
Sure, it is not possible for aninstructor to include
everything in one class, andthat is why the curriculum is
composed of many classes.
(34:34):
So in those other classes wewill introduce some of these
things like Canva that arecoming in and in publication
design.
They've been able to design aninfographic with Canva.
Once again, canva is a tool.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And I do not want to base my entire class, and
especially the beginning class,on Canva Because, as I tell the
students, you are the people whoare to design the templates on
Canva, so you need to learn thetools to be designer behind the
scenes.
That's my goal Because I do notignore, say, in web design.
(35:16):
They have a part of their classcalled web options.
It means I go out and I look atall the popular applications
and the students have to look atall, know all the popular web
applications, web builderapplications, but they also have
to know code.
But in one class you cannot doall that and I find that I would
(35:39):
rather take that class to teachstudents those beginning apps.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
And they're foundational to everything else.
But you also brought upsomething here, which is that
students are their own teachers,more and more you talked about
that, elena, and I complimentyou on that and I want to
encourage you to do that, andthat's part of our job is to
keep up with that.
But also, if the studentsunderstand we were talking about
(36:04):
advice the other day a lot oftimes students don't realize
that there's this core that youhave to do and there's minors
that you have to do and there'scertain all these different
things that the program of theuniversity and everybody told
you about that when you applied,when you went through
orientation, when you pick yourmajor, and then everybody
forgets it, and so remindingthem about where they're going
(36:24):
helps a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So I think we're to don't for Elena.
What's a college students don'tdo?
Speaker 5 (36:32):
So we already talked about don't procrastinate.
I feel like that's such acliche but it deserves an
honorable mention because it'sso true.
I am a huge procrastinator andso I say this from experience
like seriously, don't do that,because you'll have such a
better time.
Like you can procrastinate butyou're going to pay for it.
(36:53):
Like why would you do that toyourself?
This semester is.
I'm sure I've done like smallerprojects in the past when I got
them first, but this semester Iactually worked ahead on
several projects and I don'tthink I would have made it
through the end of the semesterif I hadn't Just started.
You know the major essay, themajor story map project, the big
(37:15):
graphic design end, and onceyou start it makes it easier to
keep going, because a lot oftimes the biggest hurdle is to
just start, and once you just dothat, you can just keep working
on it, and if you save it tillthe last minute, you're just
gonna find yourself in a bind.
And boy do you make points witha teacher.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
A couple things I want to add before I go is
working too much and beingoverly obsessed with grades.
Working too much, like what way?
Working too many hours outsideof school.
I like that, it's hard to askof people though.
I want to mention something theteacher, my example that I give
my classes.
(37:53):
Like I said, my mother had ninechildren and we pretty much had
to pay her own way, take careof ourselves, and so I worked
several jobs in college and Iwas constantly in flight.
You could say.
Well, one day, at the end ofthe semester, this teacher, he
told me.
He said I always remember him.
He said you know, vanessa, youdeserve an A, but I'm not giving
(38:16):
it to you, he said, becauseyou're not here enough.
I was so heartbroken because Ireally liked the teacher, but it
was a wake-up call Cause itwasn't fair for the students who
were there, who participated,and I wasn't.
I went to make sure you allheard that part.
(38:38):
Yeah, that's a good one.
And another thing is beingoverly obsessed with grades.
I told you that was gonna driveyou crazy.
I've had students who get soobsessed that the whole world
knows, and I never brought thatto my teacher's attention about
my grade, because I didn't wantthe teacher to feel pressure to
(39:01):
do something that maybe theyshouldn't do because I need a
high grade.
And there was an article in amagazine called the Flame and it
mentioned something about gradeobsession and how grade
obsession has become a problemBecause the grade is finality to
them and they stop looking atthe process.
They stop looking at thelearning that's involved and
(39:24):
that's where the focus should be, and not just on the grade.
And it's really hard whenyou're dealing with the creative
element, because the creativeis full of things that are not
predictable.
But you have to go through theprocess.
(39:44):
Your sketches may not look likethe next person sitting there,
your ideal may not appear to beas strong as another person, and
people sensing that ambiguitythey panic and they're like I'm
going to get a bad grade, sothey're filled with the anxiety
through the entire process.
(40:05):
That should have been enjoyable.
The design process should beenjoyable.
It should be fun.
That's my last thoughts.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Unfortunately, Professor Joyner had to leave us
because she had anotherappointment.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I tell you what I wish we could have recorded her
facial expressions, Some ofthose silences where she was
making the greatest faces I'veever seen, which I'm sure is
part of the why she's such agood classroom teacher.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So the last don'ts, elena.
What do you have?
Speaker 5 (40:37):
This is also kind of cliche, but don't be afraid
going in.
I say that as someone who wasvery afraid coming into college
and also is still afraid, justbecause I'm that kind of person.
But it's so freeing wheneveryou stop being afraid to try new
things and you realize thatit's okay to do something and to
(40:58):
not like it, or to do somethingand to not be the best at it.
Yeah, once you can get intothat pattern of being okay with
trying new things, you're goingto get so much farther with
anything that you do because youcan start learning.
You have to start somewhere.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
You have to start at level zero, basically to do
better, and if you never putyourself out there, you're never
going to learn.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Well, and you're a perfect example of someone.
You came in scared and shy andnext thing we know you're in the
Honors College and now you'regoing to Washington.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Student government, student media yeah, doing it all
.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Making great grades and surprise yourself, didn't
you?
I?
Speaker 5 (41:35):
never would have seen myself here.
As a freshman in college I washome like every weekend.
I was always like mom, I can'tdo it, and she's like just keep
going.
And honestly, on top of that,don't be afraid to ask for help,
because I know I had to ask forhelp, especially in the
beginning, like with mentalhealth and medical imbalances,
(41:57):
stuff like that.
Sometimes there is somethingelse wrong and it's good to ask
for help.
You can ask your professors,you can ask your doctor, ask
your family and friends, becausethat's how you're going to make
it through.
And once you find those thingsout, it does make it easier to
adapt.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
And there's nothing shameful about asking for help,
and usually faculty wants toknow.
So many times I'll have astudent and I can tell there's
something a little going on, butthey're afraid to approach and
when you just ask kindly, ohshit, all comes out and you go.
Thank goodness for you tellingme I can help you or I can
direct you to the folks who can.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I've got two good quotes.
The first one's from my uncleand you've probably heard this
one it's okay to not be okay,it's not okay to stay that way,
and that's a big thing.
It's like you have to realize.
Everyone is freaking out,everyone, especially these days.
The mental health numbers are.
They're devastating, and soeveryone is struggling.
everyone is going throughsomething faculty and staff as
(42:54):
well included absolutely andyour parents yeah and I wish
that professor Joyner was inhere because she, at the start
of my class this semester,opened up mildly but opened up
about the fact that she hasdealt with anxiety for a lot of
her life and I'm a person whohas really bad anxiety, so
hearing that like Iautomatically felt a little more
(43:14):
connected to her.
And so, yeah, you're realizeyour professors are humans too
and they have those.
But the other quote, whenyou're talking about just trying
and not being afraid to try, mygrandma was always, or still
always, says the best thing youcan do is stay there until the
um uncomfortable becomescomfortable.
(43:36):
And it's just like, if you'reuncomfortable with putting
yourself out there, just do itand it'll become comfortable
after you.
Just keep doing it until itcomes comfortable, and it's
great advice since we're quotingfamily, it's here, my father
used to say errors of omissionare far worse than errors of
commission.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
In other words, if you never tried, you never know
anything.
But if you try and that's theother thing too and you've heard
me say this, both of you Ithink that you learn more from
making a mistake than you dofrom being perfect.
Oh, yeah, you do.
And I remember in our class,when you talked the other day
about how you were usingaudiobooks, all the students
(44:15):
picked up on that and they weregoing yeah, that's an idea,
that's something I can do.
And the fact that you, who areone of the eight students in the
class and clearly one of themost competent ones, that you
admitted to them that you neededsome aids really was very
relieving to everybody.
And then, of course, when Ichanted, say, yeah, I do too,
they all realized, hey, theywere measuring themselves by a
(44:37):
standard that wasn't anexistence really oh yes, and
that's a okay to just one morequote.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
But it's a little anecdote from this guy from
tiktok who he said he waswalking just on a path right at
a public park and he's doing hisown thing and a bike is coming
up behind him.
He's walking his dog, right,the guy's walking his dog and a
bike is coming up behind him andrings the bell ring.
He's like trying to get out ofthe way, but his dog isn't
helping and so the bike ringsagain and the person in their
(45:06):
head immediately goes oh my gosh, they're probably so mad at me
right now.
And so then he gets mad at thebike person and he's like, how
dare they?
Can't?
They see I'm trying my hardestand finally gets out of the way
and the bike goes by and it'sthis sweet lady who's like hey,
thank you so much.
And keeps going.
And he realized I was making allthis frustration up in my head
(45:26):
in this whole scenario.
And I think it's collegestudents we do that a lot, where
we anticipate, like what it'ssupposed to be like with the
audio books, like you createthis fake stigma in your head
about like I can't, I can't usethe audio books, but your
professor does it, your topstudents do it.
I think that's reallyinteresting.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Don't make up these scenarios in your head of how it
goes well and that's actually apersonal learning skill that's
on my list, which is learninghow to understand human
motivation, others motivation toread it oh yeah and a lot of
times we map on other peoplewhat isn't really accurate.
There's always that thing whereyou find out someone is being
difficult and turns out thattheir father just died or
(46:04):
they're struggling with aterrible disease.
That is not obvious, and solearning to be generous and not
jumping the gun or to the worstconclusion first, it's a skill
because you know the truth is,you learn from how you
experienced, I mean before, andthe last time somebody rang a
bell at that guy, they were notobnoxious and rude, and so
(46:26):
learning to moderate youropinions is one of those adult
skills, yeah, and all of us,even adults, have trouble doing
that.
So this has been really fun totalk to you.
I'm so glad that you could do.
You have one more?
Speaker 5 (46:41):
or my pet of math don't give up seriously, just
keep going, like, don't give upon your studies, don't give up
on yourself.
Just you just have to keepgoing and when it's done you'll
look back on it, like I did that, and it's a really cool
experience well, and the otherthing, too, is that this is what
a professor Joyner was talkingabout not being too obsessed
(47:03):
about your grades.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
A few mistakes are not gonna make that big of a
difference, and so many timesI'll have a student just
terribly upset about somerelatively small error they made
or a grade on a paper that theythought should have been higher
, and it ultimately doesn'treally matter.
Just keep going.
You're finishing something,you're learning from all of this
, and so you get to go and notgive up by going to Washington.
(47:27):
Oh my goodness, what are yougonna do there?
Do you have any idea yet?
How's that program work?
Speaker 5 (47:31):
I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna do yet, but the
way it works is that you go toWashington DC for the semester,
you you're in a cohort ofstudents and you're gonna take a
few classes through the UTsystem and then you're going to
intern full-time in WashingtonDC, and so in the next few
months what I'll be doing isapplying to internship,
completing the onboarding.
I actually have an onboardingoverview meeting today, at 12 I
(47:53):
think, and I'll figure out morethan they actually just sent out
emails about confirmations lastweek.
So it's a relatively new thing,but I'm really excited.
I've already been looking atlike how I can learn about
policy and writing at the sametime, because that's the field
that I want to go into, and thishas been.
(48:13):
It's been a really coolexperience, kind of what
professor Joyner said aboutgoals.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Once I found the goal that I actually wanted to work
towards, it was a lot better formy mental health and my studies
and my professional lifebecause I knew what I was going
for one of your, one of ourgraduates here, rakeshia Sam's,
did this program and she is nowworking in the government as a
policy writer, for I think I hadto do a tax policy but I know
(48:41):
that what the end.
What doesn't sound like fun forus but she loves it and she's
actually given nationalconference papers and things
like that, but it's her thing.
I've heard of people you thekinds of internships you look
for, like working for acongressman.
I know one student was workingat the Smithsonian Institute and
I think someone else was doingsomething with the CDC before
(49:03):
the CDC got so big deal.
Yeah, so it all depends onwhich ones of these agencies and
different folks in Washingtonhave internships.
But and that's another part ofthe skill is that you have to
apply for them and win it okay,everyone else got to do a quote.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
So my mom always was giving me really good advice and
I wish professor Joyner washere, because I remember in high
school I was, I think,complaining about my art skills
or something.
I was like I wish I was betteror whatever, and she said well,
it's better to be a buddingartist than a blooming idiot.
That's honestly really stuckwith me because, like it
(49:39):
translates to you, better tostart something new and be bad
at it than to never try it all.
That's how I interpret, is it?
But I laugh every time I thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I like that and that's what my dad's errors of
omission or worse, and errors ofcommission yeah, do it, try it,
get after it.
That's so neat.
Yeah, well, and I think you'rea real example of someone who
overcome, came the shyness anddid it.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Thank you, so I'm so glad you're here, thank you,
yeah, yeah, and a shiningexample of what it can be to be
a student who's fully bought inand involved on campus, because
you do a lot, you do a lot.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I really enjoy it.
You're the kind of student wewant other folks to know about
that.
You started out not knowing forsure, not being very confident,
and now you are not a bloomingidiot by any means.
Well, thank you so much.
We hope that these are thekinds of bits and pieces of
advice and experience that folksout there in our audience will
(50:35):
will benefit from and maybeenjoy and get a laugh.
Yeah, we've had a good laugh ortwo, haven't we?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
yeah, well, this has been the ask dr Ross podcast.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
If you have any questions, you can ask them at
ADR questions at gmailcom wereally want folks to email in
and ask us stuff that we canpursue or if there's a topic for
a new program episode yeah sothat you all like to hear about.
We're really ready and eager todo that thanks so much for
listening.
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
Systems Academy of DistinguishedTeachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Her co-host and multimediaeditor, nathan Witt, provides a
(00:26):
student perspective.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
Texas at Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, I'm Catherine Ross, and this is a podcast for
parents, students in school whoare thinking about going to
college, college students whoare already here, adults who are
thinking of maybe going back tocollege and really anyone who
wants to know more about whatlife in colleges and
universities is like today inthe US of A.
I'm here with my friend, nathanWitt, who's a student here.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
If you'd like to ask Dr Ross a question, you can
email us atADRquestionsatgmailcom.
Today we're going to talk to aprofessor and a student more
about what the collegeexperience is like, some do's
and don'ts, some suggestions andideas.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, and we're excited to have our panel today.
One of them is professor ofinstruction Vanessa Joyner, my
friend and pal.
She is in the department ofcommunication Before she came to
UT Tyler.
For 20 years she was aprofessional graphic designer
AT&T and she still does contractwork for award-winning graphic
design.
(01:36):
Our other guest is Ms ElenaGonzalez, also one of my
favorite people, a student inthe English department.
She's an English major butshe's got two other minors.
She's doing language andtechnology, and which does a
little bit about how she knowshow to organize her time and be
a good student.
Another bit of informationabout why she's such a good
student and why she's going togive us such good advice is
she's in the Honors College andshe's also been selected to be
(01:58):
an Archer Fellow in the programthat sends students to go to
Washington DC to learn aboutgovernment and all the stuff
they do in Washington DC.
I've also been just informedthat she's otherwise involved.
She's on the leadership team ofour student newspaper, the Talon
, and it's even served instudent government.
(02:19):
So this is a young woman whoknows how to handle a
complicated, busy schedule andstill make A's in her classes.
We're going to ask them todayabout their top dos and don'ts
for succeeding in college, butnot just getting good grades in
college, but also being happyand getting the best out of the
(02:40):
experience, because we all knowthat college is a lot more than
obtaining some learning skillsand some knowledge.
We'll let you start out,professor Joyner.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Okay, I'll start out with they should have a goal,
and if you have too many goals,narrow it down.
I would try to make it relatedgoals, in other words, not
choose to be an architect and anEnglish major.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Or be a perfect A plus student.
So that's what I'm curiousabout, vanessa what are the
goals you're thinking of?
A long-term goal as aprofession, or a short-term goal
to pass Dr Ross's English class?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
To me, start with the long-term goal, because in
trying not to get too caught upinto the details, because as you
go along you're going to findout what you like and what you
do not like For some people itputs too much pressure on them
and I've seen students who haveanxiety and I think it is
(03:42):
because sometimes they'relooking at different people,
they're wanting to be differentpeople instead of just following
their own game plan.
For me, I was just an artist.
I loved it and anything relatedto it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I liked it Well you remind me of a line that someone
told me once which was actuallya student who said it which was
comparison is a thief of joy,and so that's a good thing to
remember too.
So, elena, did you start outwith a goal, or have you only
developed one over the time thatyou've been here?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
It definitely was a process to develop a goal.
When I came into college, I wasmajoring in marketing and I
didn't really know what I wantedto do with that, and after
switching the English, I startedto narrow it down more, and so
now, whenever I choose myactivities and the things that I
do, I try to structure itaround the skills that I can use
(04:35):
to succeed as an English majorand in a career down the line.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yes.
So I want to ask ProfessorJoyner, in your experience, what
are good strategies you've seento coming up with that goal?
Because I think that's a lot ofquestion marks for students
when they first come in is okay.
How do I even figure out whatmy goal is?
How do I figure out what thatlong term idea is?
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, the next thing on my list was having good
counseling, Starting out withyour high school counselors.
Another thing to look at arepeople in your family who have
done what you want to do.
What about the collegegraduates that are in your
family?
Have you talked to them?
It doesn't mean you have tofollow their path, but listen to
(05:19):
them, Take away what you can.
And because I had there's toomuch to go into with nine
siblings, but I had a sister twoyears older than me but I was
too competitive with her, so Iknew I had to go to a different
college.
Plus, she was analytical mathand I was artistic.
(05:44):
So it's just a matter ofsitting back and listening to
your counselors.
Hopefully, have a counselor whois plugged into you, who will
listen to you and what it is youwant to do and then direct you.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
And that's super important.
That's something that we talkedabout when we talked about
counseling, that I think a lotof students don't realize how
important it is that yourcounselor is plugged into you,
like you said, like really knows.
If you only show up for thoselittle short meetings and you're
trying to get out the door asquick as possible, then they
can't advise you in the best way.
So I think that's, I thinkthat's great.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
We had an episode before.
We talked to some of theacademic advisors, and they're
the ones who have to get youthrough, but they also want to
get you through doing whatyou're good at, and it sounds
like you started out already.
You were already good at artbefore you ever set your foot in
the door of any college, right?
So you had a goal built in.
(06:41):
Sounds like you started out notsure what you wanted to do yet,
and that's often what happenswith college students, isn't it?
They come in and they know I'vegot to go to college and by the
time I'm finished I've got tobe able to have something to do
that will bring some income.
But most of you, many of youdon't know, and so Finding a
goal for you, professor Joyner,was a little easier, because you
(07:05):
already knew something aboutyour talents.
Finding a goal for you waspartly a matter of testing the
waters of different classes, Ibet.
So how'd you get from amarketing to an English?
Speaker 5 (07:15):
major.
Funny, I ended up switchingafter the first semester because
I took several classes wherethe assignments were heavily
writing based, and I found thatI did a lot better in writing
based classes than I did in,maybe, data entry or things that
are just purely analytical andnumerical, and my professors
(07:37):
would tell me oh, you're reallygood at whatever subject it is
history, economics and I'd bethinking to myself I'm really
not, though, and then I realizedI was just good at writing, and
so I decided to switch toEnglish and pursue writing
further.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, a lot of times, students will come to college
and they are like you.
They're good at a lot of things, but it's a choice between what
you're good at and what you'regood at and you enjoy doing.
Did you have a first thing thatwas on the top of your list?
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yes, top of my list was definitely.
Scheduling your time issomething you have to do.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Certainly.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And given your schedule, that's been absolutely
essential, hasn't it?
Speaker 5 (08:16):
For me, it was starting to write it down as
soon as I find out, whether it'sassignments or work scheduling,
event scheduling or even justsomething fun that you want to
do.
Just put it in your calendar,because later, whenever someone
asks you to do something andyou're looking on your calendar,
you want to see everything soyou can know when to say yes or
no.
And also, I found out that forme, I set a bunch of alarms to
(08:39):
remind myself when to go toclass, when to go to work, when
to go to certain things, and soI have to keep that updated
every day.
But it's totally worth it,because nothing is more
attention catching than yourlittle alarm going off and you
saying what am I supposed to bedoing?
And you leave the little noteand where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So do you have a paper calendar and a phone
calendar, or just on your phoneand your computer?
Speaker 5 (09:00):
I mostly keep it on my phone just because I carry it
with me everywhere, but I dohave a paper calendar at home.
That's not quite ascomprehensive, but I do like to
keep it as well.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I started keeping a calendar in college about only
my senior year, which one of myfriends had one of those neat
little calendars that had thepages and the hours and all that
stuff.
And I've found that ever sincethen I've always had one.
Do you have a calendar, DrJoyner?
Both, Both.
Yeah, there you go.
What about you, Nathan?
Did you ever use one?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, so you're referring to the daily planner
that has the.
I've done that for a long time.
I actually built my own justbecause I'm a little
dysfunctional.
That's the only thing I wasgoing to ask you.
It's definitely the strengththat I need is being better at
scheduling.
I wanted to ask you, becauseyou have so much you're involved
with what is prioritizing orcoming up with your rank of
(09:55):
priority what does that looklike?
Because obviously you're goingto have schedule conflicts with
everything you do.
How do you sort that out?
What does that look like?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Well, this year it was trial by fire, because
whenever I started, this is thefirst year I really got involved
on campus and it was reallydifficult to figure out how to
schedule all those moving partstogether, and so for me, school
is, 99% of the time, thepriority.
So I'm going to make it theclass, I'm going to make it to
my things that I need to do forschool, and then after that I
(10:24):
just take it on a situationalbasis to see is this something I
can miss?
I try to communicate with mysupervisors, professors whatever
I'm missing to see if it'ssomething I really need to be at
or if it's something that I canmake up later.
For the most part, whenever Ido choose my involvements, I
really try to choose them in away that they don't overlap at
(10:47):
all, which also is verydifficult because things move
around, but really it's justabout each time reaching out,
seeing what's going on and howyou can either make up the thing
you're missing or if you evenneed to be there.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So you're talking there about managing a whole
life, not just classroom, butthe talent, the student
government, oh yeah.
The family and that it's boringa little bit harder on how you
keep up.
What is the best advice you cangive about how to keep up with
your class work?
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Okay, yeah, so for classes, that's, as I said, my
priority, and so that's thefirst thing that I'm going to
make sure that I have done orhave time to do so for me, I
know it's a little bit differentthan non-English majors because
I have four English classes, soit's mostly reading at this
point.
But I first of all make surethat I know what all of my
(11:40):
assignments are.
I have my syllabus for eachclass printed out and I keep it
with me in my notebook, and Ijust carry around one notebook
with a bunch of different tabsthat I use for all my classes,
and I check that often, and so Ilike to plan ahead, make sure I
have time to get all of my workdone, and if I don't, then
something else needs to be takenout or missed, and then after
(12:01):
that you just have to do it,even when it's really hard.
This is also on my list, but Isaid, another do is to learn how
you learn, because everyonelearns differently, and for me,
I only found out this secondsemester of junior year that I
will get through my reading if Ihave an audio recording of the
reading, and if I don't, thenI'm going to have a really hard
(12:21):
time getting through it and it'sgoing to be different for
everyone.
Some people take better noteson paper, some people learn at
once, some people want to spreadit out over burst of energy,
and it's really just finding outwhat you need to do.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, I'd like to add a couple things to that too.
One thing I always ask mystudents to do in English class
is worth reading and I think Iasked your class to do it too is
to get out one of the booksthat you've been assigned to
read and time yourself readingtwo pages.
Did you ever do that?
Oh well, maybe you should have,because I figured it out for
myself is how long does it takeme to read a certain number of
(12:59):
pages?
I'll say, ok, I've got to read30 pages, and I know it's going
to take me how many minutes, andespecially if you're doing a
lot of reading that way.
The other thing is, sometimesprofessors will give you a long
term assignment and it's justdue at the end of the semester,
and sometimes they'll say, ok,in two weeks I want the
bibliography, in two more weeksI want the outline, in two more
(13:22):
weeks I want a draft.
But not everybody does that,and so that's another real good
thing is to set yourself thosethat kind of fits with you were
saying, vanessa, about goals.
Is setting up some goals,learning how you learn?
I want you to talk about that alittle bit more.
You and I share this.
I like to listen to a book too,but how'd you figure that out?
(13:42):
I?
Speaker 5 (13:44):
don't remember I what book was it?
It might have been Persuasion.
Actually, I think it waswhenever we were reading
Persuasion.
And some of the more modernbooks don't have free audios
just because they're copyrightedor they're specific to apps or
whatever.
But the older books, like JaneAusten or Mary Shelley, they're
going to have free readings onYouTube and you can adjust the
(14:08):
speed and it's really nice andthat's the first book.
I remember pulling up andspecifically being like I'm
going to use the audio the wholetime and I got through that
book.
And I'll admit, in some of mypast classes I didn't get
completely through all of mybooks and this year was the
first time that I felt like Icould and it was really nice to
(14:29):
have that.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I have to admit that I never finished Moby Dick as an
undergraduate.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Never finished it, but in those days we didn't have
didn't have so many audiobooksbut.
But you're saying that you dothe audiobook, but you also read
the book, right?
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Yeah, at the same time yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Oh, along with it, huh and.
I will.
I want to pinpoint that thingyou said about adjusting the
speed.
A part of learning how youlearn that's been a big thing
for me is with all the videos.
Professor Joiner, you're one ofthem who sends video
instructions and I have figuredout that I can pay attention if
I turn the speed up still and Ican follow still the videos and
(15:05):
can maybe get through them alittle faster if I'll turn up
that speed a little bit.
So that's a little, I feel,like life hack for college
students.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's not just your generation that does that, I do
it too.
You turn up the speed, oh yeah.
I do Good, I don't know howfast you turn it up Well.
So so we've got a couple reallygood bits of best advice.
Let's hear some more.
You want to tell us something,professor Joiner?
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Game work experience, oh, and preferably related work
experience.
But if life necessitates thatyou have a variety of jobs, make
the most of it.
There's even for something assimple I should say as simple.
(15:48):
I waitressed for a while.
So did I, and one of thebiggest things I learned from
being a waitress is making themost of my time.
In other words, as a waitressI've worked at places like
Fridays and even Denny's and LosAmigos, etc.
(16:09):
But when I went to the back, wealways learned to save steps.
So when you go to the back, ifthere's several tables you're
waiting on, you take care of asmuch as you can with those
tables while you're at the back,to save steps the same
principle.
I've learned to use that inlife.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah safe.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And in academics in school, okay, as a graphic
designer, save steps.
So even back in the day when wedidn't have the computers and I
had stacks of this is how mydesk look stacks of jobs you
look for what can I do quick?
What can I do to reduce theworkload?
(16:52):
So, in other words, don't beatyourself up that I'm not doing
something related to my field asa student.
Just know that is going to helpyou one day and I guess, so you
can have peace.
I've been a security guard as astudent.
A lot of jobs, a driver, adelivery driver I've done a lot.
(17:14):
So anyway, that was my other todo and, if the students know me
, I'm always looking out forjobs.
As a teacher, I'm always alsoput out emails, so, and so is
hiring.
So and so is hiring.
Come to me if you're interested.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
So, would you say, for incoming students,
professors would be a good placeto try to find connections to
relevant work experience.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I'm always doing it, probably to an extreme.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, that's interesting.
You brought it up, becausethat's certainly something a lot
of us have been asked to domore recently is to try to find
internships for students, and wehave these career offices that
we talked about before, andthat's part of their job is to
help us find them, too, becausewe realize that, although most
of us academics were trained toteach a subject and don't know
(18:02):
much about job searches and allthat sort of stuff, that, in
fact, that's what you all needto get going on.
The thing that you said, though,about working smart if you're
back in the back of the kitchenand there's three different
tables, you need to set up inthe same way.
I know, for example, when I'mdoing my research and I bet you
probably do this too I may havetwo different projects I'm
(18:23):
working on.
I go to the library and I dothe research for the, the
education book, and then I dothe research for the Romantics
book, and so that's a way ofworking smart.
Have you figured out to do that, too, in your classes, or if
you got any of these work hacks?
Speaker 5 (18:40):
I definitely agree.
It's good to separate projects.
Whenever I save articles on mythe little library page where
you can find the researcharticles, I put them in tabs as
well by my projects, becausethey're a lot easier to find
that way and work on it one timeand not get distracted with
other ones.
In addition to that, I alsoworked in food service and
(19:02):
retail from when I was 16 and Iagree it's a very formative
experience and I think morepeople should experience it
because it teaches you a lot oflife skills that you can use in
every area.
Like I feel like I wouldn't bethe same person if I hadn't done
those things, because if youthink I'm shy now, you should
(19:22):
have seen me when I was 15,before I started a job at
firehouse subs, and learn how tointeract with people.
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, it is you have to.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
A million people you got to interact with every day.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Well, and part of learning and part of classroom
work is interacting with yourclassmates yeah since COVID, a
lot of students have far fewercommunication skills and they're
much more comfortablecommunicating on their phone
than they are with the peoplesitting right next to them.
Have you experienced that?
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Yes, and I'm like you .
I'm so glad I had opportunitiesto do jobs where I had to
interact with people because, asyou too, in college I was very
shy, so much so that whensomeone saw me later in life,
this person said to me you talk,you used to not talk.
(20:15):
I was very shy, scared of theworld, even though I had nine
siblings.
I could talk to them, butoutside of the nine and I was
like an athlete, but I was in myzone as an athlete, so I ran
and I was competitive as anathlete but and everybody knew
(20:35):
me, but I was very shy.
But I tell students you need totalk to people to succeed.
You cannot be an island.
You need customers, you have tolearn how to interact, and I
always talk to my students aboutpsychology too, and that
graphic design is a lot ofpsychology.
(20:56):
You have to almost read theminds of those talking to you.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I was watching a program the other day and it was
a teacher at a local publicschool.
Actually, I'm not sure where itwas, it might have been a
national thing but the teachersaid okay, I want everybody to
turn off your phones.
Put your phones down and justtalk to everybody in the room.
I talked to a couple people inthe room and these were high
school kids and some of them didit right away.
(21:23):
And he said but there was abunch who just froze, they just
didn't know how to do it and hehad to go around and help them
and prompt them.
And I've noticed that in myclasses too.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I think that I think students don't realize a lot of
times how much power they haveover the experience of the class
, and I also think that theydon't realize sometimes when you
have those groups that form forwhatever reason I think most of
the time it's not everintentional, it's just somehow
it's a perfect storm of chaoticenergy and they start to disrupt
(21:59):
the class.
You all don't know this, but Itook some time off of college
and now I've come back.
I'm a different student, but myfirst run I was one of those
kids who, if I felt like we hadthree or four people in the
class that would disrupt, likethat was my favorite thing and
hey, we're going to ruin thisclass and we're going to be a
productive.
I know you're making a face.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I know I was a bad student, and what you don't
realize when you're one of thosetype of students and that's who
I'm hoping, maybe I'm speakingto, or maybe I'm speaking to a
parent of one of those type ofstudents is you are paying for
this class, you're paying forthis experience and if you rob
yourself of it, you still getthe grade, a passing grade.
Squeeze it out, but you don'tlearn anything in the class.
(22:43):
You've just stolen informationfrom yourself.
You've not heard.
Maybe you've heard otherclassmates.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You have heard others .
You've hurt those students andI'll tell you what you do hurt
the teacher.
It really does disrupt theteacher's work.
The thing I want to say whenyou talk about like that, talk
like that is those are kids whoprobably don't belong in college
.
Yet.
If you are skeptical of collegeand there's a lot of that-
there's nothing wrong with abreak.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
But here's what I was going to say is that there's a
lot of folks out there and partof the reason why we're doing
this podcast is a lot of peoplehave a real negative attitude
about higher education right now.
Cost too much, what's thereturn of my investment?
There's all that stuff going on.
What I think it's important torecognize is that if you're that
negative about going, save yourtime and your money and wait
(23:31):
and do like Nathan did step outfor a while.
There's no shame in that andtypically what I get when I get
a student who's come back afterbeing away for a while guess
what?
They are 10 times moreefficient.
They know better what they want.
They've got a goal, like yousaid, and they know better that
it's not so much better outthere than they thought and
(23:52):
they've come to realize thatthere's huge advantages to
college education and they'renot just doing because their
parents expected them to do it.
A lot of times they have alittle more just self-control
and that's the time to come.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I do want to say another thing about having that
negativity in your class is thatI feel like I find it's a
contagion, absolutely, and it'sa contagion that isn't happy
with keeping it to themselves.
They have to spread it In anyopportunity they can, to spread
(24:27):
the negative things about.
A lot of times about theteacher.
I've had people who did notlike me from week two and I knew
the semester was going to berough, the things that were said
and the attitude, and when it'slike that there's nothing you
could have done.
That person just has you intheir crosshairs.
(24:49):
But can I add just a couplemore things to do before we go
on?
I do think it's important totry to find a circle of friends
and also to be involved.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
You can talk about that, can't you?
That was also on my list to getinvolved and that looks
different for everyone, Irealized, because everyone has a
different situation, everyonehas a different schedule.
But as far as you can and asmuch as you can, I definitely
see the value in gettinginvolved, because my first year
of college was during COVID andI obviously didn't have a lot of
(25:25):
opportunities to get involvedand I joined honors late.
I joined organizations later,in those first two years.
I don't think we're quite asmeaningful as this year was, and
whenever you do get involved,you learn how to say yes and how
to self-advocate, which is oneof the most important things you
can learn from higher education, in my opinion.
So, yeah, definitely gettinginvolved, and it also
(25:47):
strengthens what you're tryingto do and how you're trying to
further your career and yourinterest.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
One of the things I always say to students one of
the first days of class is Iwant you to participate, I want
you to raise your hand, I wantyou to talk.
A lot of them, oh, don't makeme do that.
They're so afraid, and I pointout to them that, basically, by
not raising your hand, notadding your voice, you're
teaching everybody that youdon't think you matter, that you
don't count, and you're notlearning how, for example, to
(26:14):
ask for a raise one day when youneed to ask for a raise, and so
I love that.
You said self-advocate is animportant term, and I think
that's a big part of whatcollege is too is that they're
learning how to go from beingtheir parents' kid to being
their own human, their ownperson, and teaching them,
giving them experiences so theycan start to test that out.
(26:37):
And so let's hear a little bitabout from both of you students
that are here what are some ofthe moments where you started
saying it's me or nobody.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Well, for me it was definitely this year, during
student government elections,when I had the campaign for my
spot and like put up a littleposter with my picture on it, I
was terrified.
I was like, oh my goodness,this is so embarrassing.
I had to call my friend while Iwas putting the posters up
because I was so embarrassed.
I was like, oh my goodness,like I just feel so conceited
(27:10):
and self-inflated.
And then I reflected on itafter elections and I did get
the position and I was likethat's what you have to do.
You have to put yourself outthere, and it's not conceited to
do so, it's putting yourselfout there and it's just part of
life and part of being an adult,part of getting further in your
career and academic life.
It is really hard, but it'ssomething you have to learn to
(27:32):
do and it does have its benefitsfor sure.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think, a good thing to do, and actually we learned
this from Katherine Martinez,who talked to us about how to
help you get your students intocollege.
She said make a list of all thethings your kids do while
they're growing up.
That can be put on anapplication.
But in a sense, students incollege I ran for, and
successfully won, a studentgovernment position that list of
(27:56):
skills that I use.
They can dip back in that listand say I've learned how to
follow through.
I have learned how to look fordetails that matter.
If students will start to keeptrack of the actual things they
have accomplished every semester.
It's amazing how much stuff youdo that you forget.
You did Along with thatcalendar that you keep.
(28:18):
If you could learn to keepyourself some sort of a folder
of all the stuff you do, thenyou can use that when you're
starting to apply for jobs.
It really helps.
And we've talked a lot aboutjobs this time.
Instead of I thought we'd betalking about academic
excellence and what to do forclasswork and getting A's and
all that sort of stuff.
But ultimately that's whereyou're heading, isn't it?
(28:38):
It's to a life afterwards whereyou take all these skills that
you've created.
So how are we doing on our list?
Do we have some more to-dosthat we haven't covered?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Two more do's you got all your do's, huh.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Okay, you want to enumerate them one more time.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Just one, two, three, real quick, sure, my do's were
schedule your time, learn howyou learn best and get involved.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, and your three do's, professor Joyner, have a
goal.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Listen to your counselors.
Develop good study habits.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Okay, we haven't really talked about good study
habits yet, have we?
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I think Alana had some good points as far as how
she organized her life so thatshe took care of the most
important things first.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Thinking in terms of prioritizing doing the hardest
stuff first A lot of timespeople do the easy stuff we said
that and then also just gettingsleep eating well, getting
exercise If you're notphysically in good shape not
necessarily the world's greatestpower lift or anything like
(29:43):
that but just breathing andyou're not losing too much sleep
, then you're going to be abetter student.
Did you have any challengeswith any of that?
Do you have sleepless nightssometimes?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
I definitely had challenges with all of it.
Actually, eating healthy ishard in college because you have
to do it yourself.
Getting sleep is hard becauseyou do want to go out and stay
up late and talk to your friendsall night, or even just stay on
TikTok or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Oh, boy TikTok is the world's biggest time loop time
waster.
And boy, do I do it too.
You're on TikTok now.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Oh, I've been on it and off it and on it and off it,
and on it and off it all it'sterrible.
They call it doom scrolling.
There you go doom scrolling.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, the last time I went on it one of my students
and then I discovered two of mystudents and three of my
students have TikTok accounts,or whatever.
Sure, they all do, oh my God.
And then I had to start seeingwhat my students do in their
free time and I went you don'twant to see that, I didn't want
to see it, but anyway.
So we've got all of our do'sdown.
What are some of the big don'ts, professor?
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Joyner, Starting with goals, not having a goal not
having a purpose.
It will just land you introuble.
You're going to sizzle out veryquickly, and especially for
when you're working on yourmasters, you must have a goal,
because a lot of that time whathappens is up to you.
(31:12):
There's not as much structureAt least it was not for me and
so it all comes from the heart,and then in those down times
it's that goal that keeps megoing.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
The thing I was thinking of when you were
talking about that is, evenwithin every class, you need to
know what you're trying to study.
A lot of times, I think,students get assignments and
they don't really know what isthe purpose of this.
How am I supposed to read thischapter in Persuasion by Jane
Austen, or what am I supposed tolook for?
And so, if you can eitherfigure that out on your own or
(31:49):
get the professor, ask theprofessor what am I looking for?
Or you know how, I give youthose class preparation
assignments to try to guide you,but a lot of times students
just don't know why they'redoing what they're being asked
to do.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Like what they're getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well what they're getting out of it.
But sometimes, just what am Isupposed to do with this poem?
What am I supposed to do withthis history chapter?
Where is it heading me?
How does it connect to whatI've studied before?
What do you want me to get outof it?
And so, on the one hand, that'son us faculty.
We've got to make clear tostudents what you're looking for
.
But if you're not sure, then Isay to students make your
(32:25):
professors tell you, ask them,why am I doing this?
Plytely, of course, not meangirls, but anyway.
So that was your first, don't.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yes, I just believe it just leads you to the wrong
places.
And if a student is not clear,ask the teacher.
Now I think from my classesthey're learning tools.
In the first class it's mainlytools.
I say a construction workerbefore he or she goes to build a
house.
If they're not familiar withtheir tools, there's not going
(32:56):
to be much constructing going on.
I believe that students have somuch available to create today,
so that's why they can feel alittle tedious, but for me it's
collecting jewels.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
So what are some of the tools you're talking about
in your specific field?
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Adobe Creative Suite application, knowing how the
different applications work, howthey're different.
And I tell students, as youlearn a new application, look at
the differences.
All applications are going tohave something in common, but
when you go to the next one,look at the differences, look at
the interface differences.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
And if I can rabbit hole just a little bit, I know
because I just took your class,professor Joyner, that you don't
embrace programs like Canva.
Can I ask for you to help meunderstand that?
Because in my mind, as astudent and someone who has done
freelance with graphic designfor three years and has used
Canva and really enjoyed it asmuch as I've used the Adobe
(33:56):
Suite, I don't understand whyCanva can't be embraced.
That's cute.
Well, okay, you can laugh.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You're allowed to laugh at a student.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Am I allowed?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Okay, if you're laughing with him, not at him.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Well, you can laugh at me.
I got thick skin.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Well, that's the issue with graphic design or any
technical field is thatstudents are out here in the
world with their hands oneverything.
Sure, it is not possible for aninstructor to include
everything in one class, andthat is why the curriculum is
composed of many classes.
(34:34):
So in those other classes wewill introduce some of these
things like Canva that arecoming in and in publication
design.
They've been able to design aninfographic with Canva.
Once again, canva is a tool.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
And I do not want to base my entire class, and
especially the beginning class,on Canva Because, as I tell the
students, you are the people whoare to design the templates on
Canva, so you need to learn thetools to be designer behind the
scenes.
That's my goal Because I do notignore, say, in web design.
(35:16):
They have a part of their classcalled web options.
It means I go out and I look atall the popular applications
and the students have to look atall, know all the popular web
applications, web builderapplications, but they also have
to know code.
But in one class you cannot doall that and I find that I would
(35:39):
rather take that class to teachstudents those beginning apps.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
And they're foundational to everything else.
But you also brought upsomething here, which is that
students are their own teachers,more and more you talked about
that, elena, and I complimentyou on that and I want to
encourage you to do that, andthat's part of our job is to
keep up with that.
But also, if the studentsunderstand we were talking about
(36:04):
advice the other day a lot oftimes students don't realize
that there's this core that youhave to do and there's minors
that you have to do and there'scertain all these different
things that the program of theuniversity and everybody told
you about that when you applied,when you went through
orientation, when you pick yourmajor, and then everybody
forgets it, and so remindingthem about where they're going
(36:24):
helps a lot.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
So I think we're to don't for Elena.
What's a college students don'tdo?
Speaker 5 (36:32):
So we already talked about don't procrastinate.
I feel like that's such acliche but it deserves an
honorable mention because it'sso true.
I am a huge procrastinator andso I say this from experience
like seriously, don't do that,because you'll have such a
better time.
Like you can procrastinate butyou're going to pay for it.
(36:53):
Like why would you do that toyourself?
This semester is.
I'm sure I've done like smallerprojects in the past when I got
them first, but this semester Iactually worked ahead on
several projects and I don'tthink I would have made it
through the end of the semesterif I hadn't Just started.
You know the major essay, themajor story map project, the big
(37:15):
graphic design end, and onceyou start it makes it easier to
keep going, because a lot oftimes the biggest hurdle is to
just start, and once you just dothat, you can just keep working
on it, and if you save it tillthe last minute, you're just
gonna find yourself in a bind.
And boy do you make points witha teacher.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
A couple things I want to add before I go is
working too much and beingoverly obsessed with grades.
Working too much, like what way?
Working too many hours outsideof school.
I like that, it's hard to askof people though.
I want to mention something theteacher, my example that I give
my classes.
(37:53):
Like I said, my mother had ninechildren and we pretty much had
to pay her own way, take careof ourselves, and so I worked
several jobs in college and Iwas constantly in flight.
You could say.
Well, one day, at the end ofthe semester, this teacher, he
told me.
He said I always remember him.
He said you know, vanessa, youdeserve an A, but I'm not giving
(38:16):
it to you, he said, becauseyou're not here enough.
I was so heartbroken because Ireally liked the teacher, but it
was a wake-up call Cause itwasn't fair for the students who
were there, who participated,and I wasn't.
I went to make sure you allheard that part.
(38:38):
Yeah, that's a good one.
And another thing is beingoverly obsessed with grades.
I told you that was gonna driveyou crazy.
I've had students who get soobsessed that the whole world
knows, and I never brought thatto my teacher's attention about
my grade, because I didn't wantthe teacher to feel pressure to
(39:01):
do something that maybe theyshouldn't do because I need a
high grade.
And there was an article in amagazine called the Flame and it
mentioned something about gradeobsession and how grade
obsession has become a problemBecause the grade is finality to
them and they stop looking atthe process.
They stop looking at thelearning that's involved and
(39:24):
that's where the focus should be, and not just on the grade.
And it's really hard whenyou're dealing with the creative
element, because the creativeis full of things that are not
predictable.
But you have to go through theprocess.
(39:44):
Your sketches may not look likethe next person sitting there,
your ideal may not appear to beas strong as another person, and
people sensing that ambiguitythey panic and they're like I'm
going to get a bad grade, sothey're filled with the anxiety
through the entire process.
(40:05):
That should have been enjoyable.
The design process should beenjoyable.
It should be fun.
That's my last thoughts.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Unfortunately, Professor Joyner had to leave us
because she had anotherappointment.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
I tell you what I wish we could have recorded her
facial expressions, Some ofthose silences where she was
making the greatest faces I'veever seen, which I'm sure is
part of the why she's such agood classroom teacher.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
So the last don'ts, elena.
What do you have?
Speaker 5 (40:37):
This is also kind of cliche, but don't be afraid
going in.
I say that as someone who wasvery afraid coming into college
and also is still afraid, justbecause I'm that kind of person.
But it's so freeing wheneveryou stop being afraid to try new
things and you realize thatit's okay to do something and to
(40:58):
not like it, or to do somethingand to not be the best at it.
Yeah, once you can get intothat pattern of being okay with
trying new things, you're goingto get so much farther with
anything that you do because youcan start learning.
You have to start somewhere.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
You have to start at level zero, basically to do
better, and if you never putyourself out there, you're never
going to learn.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Well, and you're a perfect example of someone.
You came in scared and shy andnext thing we know you're in the
Honors College and now you'regoing to Washington.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Student government, student media yeah, doing it all
.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Making great grades and surprise yourself, didn't
you?
I?
Speaker 5 (41:35):
never would have seen myself here.
As a freshman in college I washome like every weekend.
I was always like mom, I can'tdo it, and she's like just keep
going.
And honestly, on top of that,don't be afraid to ask for help,
because I know I had to ask forhelp, especially in the
beginning, like with mentalhealth and medical imbalances,
(41:57):
stuff like that.
Sometimes there is somethingelse wrong and it's good to ask
for help.
You can ask your professors,you can ask your doctor, ask
your family and friends, becausethat's how you're going to make
it through.
And once you find those thingsout, it does make it easier to
adapt.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
And there's nothing shameful about asking for help,
and usually faculty wants toknow.
So many times I'll have astudent and I can tell there's
something a little going on, butthey're afraid to approach and
when you just ask kindly, ohshit, all comes out and you go.
Thank goodness for you tellingme I can help you or I can
direct you to the folks who can.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I've got two good quotes.
The first one's from my uncleand you've probably heard this
one it's okay to not be okay,it's not okay to stay that way,
and that's a big thing.
It's like you have to realize.
Everyone is freaking out,everyone, especially these days.
The mental health numbers are.
They're devastating, and soeveryone is struggling.
everyone is going throughsomething faculty and staff as
(42:54):
well included absolutely andyour parents yeah and I wish
that professor Joyner was inhere because she, at the start
of my class this semester,opened up mildly but opened up
about the fact that she hasdealt with anxiety for a lot of
her life and I'm a person whohas really bad anxiety, so
hearing that like Iautomatically felt a little more
(43:14):
connected to her.
And so, yeah, you're realizeyour professors are humans too
and they have those.
But the other quote, whenyou're talking about just trying
and not being afraid to try, mygrandma was always, or still
always, says the best thing youcan do is stay there until the
um uncomfortable becomescomfortable.
(43:36):
And it's just like, if you'reuncomfortable with putting
yourself out there, just do itand it'll become comfortable
after you.
Just keep doing it until itcomes comfortable, and it's
great advice since we're quotingfamily, it's here, my father
used to say errors of omissionare far worse than errors of
commission.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
In other words, if you never tried, you never know
anything.
But if you try and that's theother thing too and you've heard
me say this, both of you Ithink that you learn more from
making a mistake than you dofrom being perfect.
Oh, yeah, you do.
And I remember in our class,when you talked the other day
about how you were usingaudiobooks, all the students
(44:15):
picked up on that and they weregoing yeah, that's an idea,
that's something I can do.
And the fact that you, who areone of the eight students in the
class and clearly one of themost competent ones, that you
admitted to them that you neededsome aids really was very
relieving to everybody.
And then, of course, when Ichanted, say, yeah, I do too,
they all realized, hey, theywere measuring themselves by a
(44:37):
standard that wasn't anexistence really oh yes, and
that's a okay to just one morequote.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
But it's a little anecdote from this guy from
tiktok who he said he waswalking just on a path right at
a public park and he's doing hisown thing and a bike is coming
up behind him.
He's walking his dog, right,the guy's walking his dog and a
bike is coming up behind him andrings the bell ring.
He's like trying to get out ofthe way, but his dog isn't
helping and so the bike ringsagain and the person in their
(45:06):
head immediately goes oh my gosh, they're probably so mad at me
right now.
And so then he gets mad at thebike person and he's like, how
dare they?
Can't?
They see I'm trying my hardestand finally gets out of the way
and the bike goes by and it'sthis sweet lady who's like hey,
thank you so much.
And keeps going.
And he realized I was making allthis frustration up in my head
(45:26):
in this whole scenario.
And I think it's collegestudents we do that a lot, where
we anticipate, like what it'ssupposed to be like with the
audio books, like you createthis fake stigma in your head
about like I can't, I can't usethe audio books, but your
professor does it, your topstudents do it.
I think that's reallyinteresting.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Don't make up these scenarios in your head of how it
goes well and that's actually apersonal learning skill that's
on my list, which is learninghow to understand human
motivation, others motivation toread it oh yeah and a lot of
times we map on other peoplewhat isn't really accurate.
There's always that thing whereyou find out someone is being
difficult and turns out thattheir father just died or
(46:04):
they're struggling with aterrible disease.
That is not obvious, and solearning to be generous and not
jumping the gun or to the worstconclusion first, it's a skill
because you know the truth is,you learn from how you
experienced, I mean before, andthe last time somebody rang a
bell at that guy, they were notobnoxious and rude, and so
(46:26):
learning to moderate youropinions is one of those adult
skills, yeah, and all of us,even adults, have trouble doing
that.
So this has been really fun totalk to you.
I'm so glad that you could do.
You have one more?
Speaker 5 (46:41):
or my pet of math don't give up seriously, just
keep going, like, don't give upon your studies, don't give up
on yourself.
Just you just have to keepgoing and when it's done you'll
look back on it, like I did that, and it's a really cool
experience well, and the otherthing, too, is that this is what
a professor Joyner was talkingabout not being too obsessed
(47:03):
about your grades.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
A few mistakes are not gonna make that big of a
difference, and so many timesI'll have a student just
terribly upset about somerelatively small error they made
or a grade on a paper that theythought should have been higher
, and it ultimately doesn'treally matter.
Just keep going.
You're finishing something,you're learning from all of this
, and so you get to go and notgive up by going to Washington.
(47:27):
Oh my goodness, what are yougonna do there?
Do you have any idea yet?
How's that program work?
Speaker 5 (47:31):
I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna do yet, but the
way it works is that you go toWashington DC for the semester,
you you're in a cohort ofstudents and you're gonna take a
few classes through the UTsystem and then you're going to
intern full-time in WashingtonDC, and so in the next few
months what I'll be doing isapplying to internship,
completing the onboarding.
I actually have an onboardingoverview meeting today, at 12 I
(47:53):
think, and I'll figure out morethan they actually just sent out
emails about confirmations lastweek.
So it's a relatively new thing,but I'm really excited.
I've already been looking atlike how I can learn about
policy and writing at the sametime, because that's the field
that I want to go into, and thishas been.
(48:13):
It's been a really coolexperience, kind of what
professor Joyner said aboutgoals.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Once I found the goal that I actually wanted to work
towards, it was a lot better formy mental health and my studies
and my professional lifebecause I knew what I was going
for one of your, one of ourgraduates here, rakeshia Sam's,
did this program and she is nowworking in the government as a
policy writer, for I think I hadto do a tax policy but I know
(48:41):
that what the end.
What doesn't sound like fun forus but she loves it and she's
actually given nationalconference papers and things
like that, but it's her thing.
I've heard of people you thekinds of internships you look
for, like working for acongressman.
I know one student was workingat the Smithsonian Institute and
I think someone else was doingsomething with the CDC before
(49:03):
the CDC got so big deal.
Yeah, so it all depends onwhich ones of these agencies and
different folks in Washingtonhave internships.
But and that's another part ofthe skill is that you have to
apply for them and win it okay,everyone else got to do a quote.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
So my mom always was giving me really good advice and
I wish professor Joyner washere, because I remember in high
school I was, I think,complaining about my art skills
or something.
I was like I wish I was betteror whatever, and she said well,
it's better to be a buddingartist than a blooming idiot.
That's honestly really stuckwith me because, like it
(49:39):
translates to you, better tostart something new and be bad
at it than to never try it all.
That's how I interpret, is it?
But I laugh every time I thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I like that and that's what my dad's errors of
omission or worse, and errors ofcommission yeah, do it, try it,
get after it.
That's so neat.
Yeah, well, and I think you'rea real example of someone who
overcome, came the shyness anddid it.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Thank you, so I'm so glad you're here, thank you,
yeah, yeah, and a shiningexample of what it can be to be
a student who's fully bought inand involved on campus, because
you do a lot, you do a lot.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I really enjoy it.
You're the kind of student wewant other folks to know about
that.
You started out not knowing forsure, not being very confident,
and now you are not a bloomingidiot by any means.
Well, thank you so much.
We hope that these are thekinds of bits and pieces of
advice and experience that folksout there in our audience will
(50:35):
will benefit from and maybeenjoy and get a laugh.
Yeah, we've had a good laugh ortwo, haven't we?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
yeah, well, this has been the ask dr Ross podcast.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
If you have any questions, you can ask them at
ADR questions at gmailcom wereally want folks to email in
and ask us stuff that we canpursue or if there's a topic for
a new program episode yeah sothat you all like to hear about.
We're really ready and eager todo that thanks so much for
listening.
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