August 15, 2023 • 49 mins
UT Tyler professors Dr. Catherine Ross, Ph.D., and Dr. Belinda Deal, Ph.D. take a deep dive into what "Belonging" looks like for college students today with Associate Dean of Students and licensed professional counselor Kim Livingston-Cobb. Specifically, how mental health plays a role in a student's ability to fit in and how they can make realistic improvements in their lives.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
Systems Academy of DistinguishedTeachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Her co-host and multimediaeditor, nathan Witt, provides a
(00:26):
student perspective.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
Texas at Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, I'm Catherine Ross, and this is a podcast for
parents, students in school whoare thinking about going to
college, college students whoare already here, adults who are
thinking of maybe going back tocollege and really anyone who
wants to know more about whatlife in colleges and
universities is like today inthe US of A.
I'm here with my friend, nathanWitt, who's a student here.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
If you'd like to ask Dr Ross a question, you can
email us atADRquestionsatgmailcom.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit more about belonging,
dive a little deeper into whatit means and kind of dig into
the mental health side ofbelonging what that looks like,
especially in today's world.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah.
So we've already explained toeverybody that the three pillars
of student success are finances, advising and belonging, and
the more we've talked about, themore we realize we need a lot
more to know about what goesinto belonging in college,
because college students todayare such a different mix than
they were even ten years ago,and especially since we have
online courses and things likethat.
(01:39):
Our guests today are two peoplethat I absolutely admire,
respect and enjoy being with,and every now and then we do
group hugs.
These are the two co-chairs ofthe University-wide Wellness
Committee.
One is Kim Livingston Cobb, whois the associate dean of
students.
She's a licensed professionalcounselor and licensed
professional counselorsupervisor and in those
(02:01):
capacities at UT Tyler, shesupervises the student
counseling center and ourfinancial wellness program,
which is again part of studentsuccess and the student
accessibility and resourcescenter.
According to that, shesupervises our assistant dean of
students, who takes care ofstudent assistance, the advocacy
center and the care team, andfolks out there need to know
(02:22):
that most universities havesomething like this.
A care team is a group that'ssitting there ready to respond
whenever a faculty or staff, oreven a student, recognizes that
one of the students has behaviorissues, attendance problems,
perhaps their safety is inquestion, whether they're having
academic problems or financialproblems, or even just
conducting themselves in waysthat suggest that maybe they
(02:45):
need a little extra help.
So Kim is in charge of all ofthat and maintains a pretty
healthy wellness herself, whichsometimes, with a workload like
that, I wonder how you do it.
My other guest is Dr BelindaDeal.
She is a professor of nursingin our school of nursing at UT
Tyler.
It's been here for many yearsand she has taught everything
from health assessment forundergraduate nursing to our
(03:08):
beginning graduate.
Students are working toward aPhD in nursing and at the moment
one of the courses she'steaching is called culture and
spirituality which is anelective for nurses and we were
talking about it earlier.
It's something that's probablyreally important for a nurse to
have under their belt.
So, having told you all thatabout them, I think you can tell
that they're very well preparedto talk to us about what
(03:29):
they've experienced and how ourstudents are learning to belong
maybe not always belonging andwhat is involved in them.
So, kim, why don't you startout by telling us how is
belonging going?
That's a big, wide question,but it gives you a chance to
pick whatever you want to talkabout.
When you think about the issueof students belonging, what are
(03:49):
the biggest, I guess, barriersto our students belonging?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think there's multiple.
Yeah, of course, some of whatwe see obviously is some mental
health concerns and some of thatcomes from not feeling like
they belong.
Sometimes what I see and whatI've seen over the years is
students may have unrealisticexpectations when they come to
(04:17):
college.
They expect college to be whatthey've seen on TV to you,
instantly, you know, get in witha group of friends, you have
this great time.
So you know, our brighteststudents sometimes haven't
really learned how to study andthe academics is much more
(04:39):
challenging than they thought itwould be.
To some extent, when studentsbegin to experience challenges
whether that's socially,academically or whatever, they
think they're the only ones andeverybody hides it.
Well, social media, we put on abright, shiny face, all of
those kinds of things and wherewe can help with that is really
(05:03):
our messaging that it isperfectly normal for a freshman
coming in for the first time tohave challenges and to struggle.
That's okay.
Change whatever change, it isgood change, bad change that is
very stressful.
Sometimes we forget and makethat seem unusual that someone
(05:27):
is stressing.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So they come in expecting to instantly belong
the way they did in high schoolprobably right, they had a lot
of friends they'd made over theyears.
They maybe were on choir orcheering squad, they were a
student athlete of some sort,and a lot of times they don't do
that instantly.
When they get here, they have akind of instant shock of having
(05:49):
been a fairly big fish in thesmall pond.
Now they're a little minnow andthere's all sorts of things
they don't even know for sureabout.
What's going on and in factthat's one of the things we
wanted to talk about and I thinkwe've talked about in some of
the other episodes is thatthere's a lot of things to get
involved in, but you got to knowwhat they are to get involved
in terms of.
(06:09):
So you're talking aboutfreshmen.
What about many of the studentsthat you get?
Belinda want to be a nurse andit's interesting to me who teach
freshmen in the core class isthat the nursing students
already have a purpose and sothey already belong.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yeah, I would say the highest percentage, probably
95%, do want to be there.
There are a few that are therethat you know.
That comes out later, but thatdoes help a lot and along the
way they figure out if they'renot successful in a course then
the reality that maybe they needa different major or something
(06:45):
like that.
But I just wanted to say toothat there's a term called
connect before content, and soyou have to connect with the
students before they can listento you and really like care
before content to oh boy, do Iagree with you on that one.
Yeah, so you have to, and can Ijust talk about that Talk about
(07:10):
it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, and we can clip and move things around because
a lot of times we sort of wander.
Let's talk about that.
Connect before content.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
So in my class, the last face-to-face class I had
was wellness and healthpromotion and I love that class.
Unfortunately, I'm teaching ata different level now, but I
will always love that class.
And so I look out at the bigauditorium and I start making
connections.
We start out with the nameTense and Luke.
That you, and then Luke did Isee you on campus walking last
(07:42):
week and you got a haircut andtell me about your laptop,
whatever you call it, thestickers and what does your
t-shirt mean, and that kind ofthing, and that just brings me
so much joy and it and I thinkit brings them joy for the most
important, unless they're veryintroverted, perhaps they're
like leave me alone, maybe, butbut yeah, that just knowing and
(08:04):
that lays the foundation for thenext thing.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I think that belonging to a class is an
important way to get themstarted and when professors do
that, when they reach out to thestudents one by one.
And a minute ago she said nametents and what those are is.
We take hard-card stock paper.
We write their first names on.
It would have them write theirnames on, and so they have those
sitting on their desk the firstcouple weeks, or at least for
(08:30):
me, about first two weeks, tolearn their names.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, and that goes the way.
They get tired of it or theyforget it, so I just give up.
I would love for them to haveit the whole semester, but then
always work out that way.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, connecting with teachers is an important part
of this job and yet students alot of times are afraid to.
We do office hours and we sitthere with nobody showing up,
unless we require them to come,and then they get to know what
you said a minute ago came aboutwhat they thought college was
gonna be like when they werehigh school.
(09:02):
They all think we're just ogres.
They really think thatprofessors are really awful,
right, right.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I don't know, did your teachers warn you about how
rough and certainly I think Iwas like middle school was like,
oh, high school is gonna behorrible and they're gonna
they're gonna make you actdifferent in high school.
You get to high school and itwasn't that way, but the high
school teachers were likecollege is gonna be crazy and
then you get to college is notreally that way.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Professors actually like students and want them to
belong and so what Kim's justtold us is that they have a hard
time learning how to belongbecause they don't have the old
structure.
What are some of the pieces ofadvice you can give us to put
out there in the community foranybody about going to college
(09:51):
or is already in college?
What do you recommend that theydo to take care of their own
belonging?
We can supply stuff, but theygot to step up.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, and there's everything from going to your
faculty's office hours.
Get to know your faculty, letthem get to know you.
Then when you do have aquestion or a concern, it's a
whole lot easier to ask.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And also academic advisors, nathan Sure.
A whole session on that as well.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yes, absolutely.
And then what are theyinterested in?
A lot of times you may havesomeone who's super introverted
they're not gonna go out to thebig events or things like that
but what are they interested in?
Are they interested in service?
Are they interested insomething like that?
A majority of the time, thereis some organization out there
(10:42):
that will fit just about anyinterest, and if there's not one
, you could create one with fivepeople.
Things like that connectingwith your RA's.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Now you mentioned RA's, because I was about to say
some students live on campusand the ones who live on campus,
is that a built-in beginning ofbelonging Way?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
easier.
It's way easier, having havelived on campus and have lived
off campus.
It's way easier.
But, like you said to me, thenumber one thing you can do to
try to find belonging on campusis finding those interest groups
.
There's clubs, organizationsand groups and some campuses are
better at making them visiblethan others, but every campus
(11:22):
has a ton of them and it doesn'tmatter if you care about
service or you care about, like,video games.
He didn't say it in theinterview, but on our previous
belonging episode with JoshNeves, when I sat down with him
in his office, he told me abouta hot tub club we used to have
on campus and like the wholeclub was just like they would
reserve the hot tub and justhang out in the hot tub and so
(11:44):
it doesn't matter what you careabout, especially the bigger the
campuses.
I know at UNT they have asquirrel watching club.
So those are just anecdotestowards there's everything.
There's a million ways to getplugged in, especially when it
comes to the clubs and groupsand organizations and stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You have to show up though.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You have to be there.
Yeah, you have to be on campus,especially for commuters and
stuff.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
So my daughter went to Baylor and she was involved
in an engaged learning communityand so it was a general topic.
It was supposed to be women'shistory but the faculty ended up
moving so it ended up beingjust like a sociology club.
But she's still in contact withher best friend that was her
roommate, and then two otherpeople, so that's very powerful.
(12:29):
We are trying to do that nowwith nursing and they're trying
to have a floor at Ohol.
I believe that's going to benursing majors.
It's just that you're myneighbor and then you're setting
pathophysiology or anatomy orwhatever and let's hang out.
So just that close proximity ofhaving somebody.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
The proximity is amazing how much it matters.
I know, for example, if I'mteaching a Monday, wednesday,
friday schedule, the people Isee are only the people that
have that schedule, and then thenext semester they always
switch you over to a Tuesday,thursday schedule, and sometimes
I never see the people from thelast semester and we're all so
busy that if you don't literallyrun into them, it's difficult
(13:14):
to pull together a time.
And because now, theundergraduate college I went to
you'll love this.
It was a seated served lunchmeal in this big dining hall.
There were only 700.
There was no women's college inVirginia, ancient women's
college like Sweetbriar MaryBaldwin, and we literally all
shared a meal together and thefaculty came in every day.
(13:37):
Talk about finding a way tobelong.
But for us, people kind of runin and out of the Met, which is
our campus.
If they live off campus, theymay not eat on campus at all.
I think freshmen have arequired meal ticket though,
don't they?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
If they live on campus.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If they live on campus, the online, the kids who
live on campus have thedormitory or departments to
connect them and they have thepossibility of eating at the
same time.
But what about those commuters?
Because we have a good numberof commuters.
What do they do?
What can we tell them to do?
Eat on campus.
(14:14):
Eat on campus, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's literally a really big one.
I'm a commuter and I try evenif I don't eat in the Met and I
just go grab Chick-fil-A orsomething.
It's real easy to try to justgrab in, hop in your car and
take off, but I try really hardto sit down because I can't even
count how many times somebodyfrom a class will pass by.
In fact, one of my good friends.
(14:37):
That friendship all startedfrom.
We were in one class togetherand she walked by and was like
hey, dude, do you realize thisassignment is due today.
And I was like no, and she waslike me neither.
And so we sat down at the tableand started cramming for it.
And then we had another classtogether and since then we've
been friends and now we hang outoutside of school.
It can start like that reallyeasily, of just like.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Well, study groups are something I've always tried
to yeah absolutely.
Do you do that as well?
Belinda in the nursing program.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yes, that's very important and I've always wished
hoped that there was a morestructured way to do that, but
it's very organic.
I'm sitting next to someone, orI had them in Path O, and we
get along.
But yeah, that's a great way.
And I would say the studentorganizations too.
In nursing we have two studentorganizations, the National
(15:27):
Student Nurses Association andwe have Nurses Christian
Fellowship, and I've beeninvolved in Nurses Christian
Fellowship as an advisor throughthe years, and so that's a way
where students can really getwith a group and find a common
purpose.
And then lately we've beenworking together, both of the
student organizations workingtogether on different projects,
(15:47):
and that's been good too,because nursing students think
they have to study all the timeand there's a high percentage
that think they don't have anytime for recreation all those
things that make you well.
So that is a challenge to talkto them about that and help them
(16:09):
have a more balanced life andexperience.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Now you have done an interesting program with
students to address that exactissue, haven't you?
Would you tell us about that?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yes, that is the Quality Improvement Project,
which is a project in theWellness and Health Promotion
course, where students do awellness survey and they go oh,
I need more sleep or I need todrink more water, I need more
movement, I need more exercise,my finances need to be better,
I'm not saving any money.
Spiritually, I'm low.
(16:41):
I need to ramp up that.
So they do an assessment andthen they pick one thing and
they pick most people like todrink more water, drink less
caffeine.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
This is students in your class.
Yes, students in the class, soit's a group that you meet with
regularly, and so it's a projectwithin a class.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's an assignment, oh, assignment.
It's really the biggestassignment.
It's 30% of the grade.
Is it successful?
It's so rewarding to read thefinal project where they're like
this changed my life, I'mwalking more.
And they do a smart goal.
I want to exercise three timesa week and then they do an
(17:19):
immediate goal and then they doa yearly goal, like over a year,
so they really look ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And how is that project structured?
Maybe all of?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
us can borrow it.
Yeah, someone wants to do it athome?
Yeah, I might be interested inthat.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yeah, I can provide a link to the wellness compass.
Once you finish the survey, itgives you like a compass where
it tells you where you fit inall the areas.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
We have.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
that's perfect yeah because on our website for the
podcast we always include linksto the.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Okay, we'll be sure to include that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So one of the big effects is to teach them some
real careful self-discipline andself-care, isn't it?
Which is hard for everybody?
Who thinks they have to studyall the time, neglect themselves
first of all.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
So we hope that breaks a little bit of that
cycle where they can see thebenefits, because we're
creatures of habit and we do thesame thing over and over.
If you break that habit in fourweeks is a pretty good time to
have something new.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's some of the best psychological principles
there being put in play, wow.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Can we for a second?
Y'all both co-chair of theuniversity-wide wellness
committee.
Can we talk about that wordwellness?
Because I'd like to knowy'all's definition of it?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
So it really is a holistic thing.
So everything from our physicalwellness, psychological
wellness, can be spirituality,it can be just a very wide range
of things, and one of thethings that we do which I really
(18:55):
like is that a lot of peopleacross campus are doing things
that support wellness, butnobody knows what anybody else
is doing.
One of the major goals of thiscommittee is to find out that
information and consolidate itinto you.
Go to this one webpage.
You can find out everythingthat's happening related to
(19:16):
wellness and people can accessit.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And some of the examples are things like
everything from the physicaltrainers to folks working in the
counseling center, the writingcenter, the what else.
We had a gathering of all thesefolks.
We can believe how many peoplewere doing different things
Wellness walks, the RAsoftentimes have programs.
There's an internal mentoringprogram within one of the in the
(19:42):
psychology department, and whatwe realize is lots of people
are trying to attend to theseneeds and yet there's still
folks that slip out and don'tget to belong.
So what do we do for the onesthat aren't belonging enough?
And is it worse now?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I think to some extent it is.
I think COVID really impactedin so many different ways.
One of those is just spendingso much time isolated A lot of
our incoming students or a lotof our current students.
They lost a whole lot of highschool.
(20:20):
They lost a whole lot of thatlearning, that personal
face-to-face interaction.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Or the freshman year in college?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yes, yes, and so there is that sense of I don't
really even know how to interact.
I think there's a lot moresocial anxiety, but also I don't
know that I'm normal.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Are there remedies for that?
Are we looking at ten yearsworth of students, from the ones
who had it in middle school allthe way to their freshman or
sophomore year in college thatare just going to have to
struggle with this?
Or does it from yourpsychological training?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I think a lot of it is normalizing Is being able
what do?
You mean by that?
Normalizing?
Yes, so being able to say it isnot unusual for you to
experience this, that eventhough you look out and you
don't see anyone else struggling, I can't tell you how many
people are Really are yes.
So I think when our messagingcomes out to say you are not
(21:28):
crazy, you are not unusual, youare, there is a better sense of
belonging when our expectationsaren't matching what we think
everybody else is doing orknowing, or nobody else is
experiencing this kind of stressor anxiety or depression or any
of that, because what we see onsocial media is perfection.
(21:48):
We put this perfect faceforward and if we truly believe
what's on social media, we willthink we are incredibly unusual,
total failures.
We don't live up, and I wouldsay from every direction, from
our faculty to our staff.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Freshman grad students.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yes, being able to say a lot of people struggle
it's not unusual, and it's okayand it's normal to seek help.
It's normal to either go to thecounseling center.
It's okay.
If you get an email from thecare team that says how can we
help, it's okay.
(22:27):
And I think so often there'ssuch a fear that if I
acknowledge that I'm struggling,then I belong even less.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And they struggle over some things that really
don't matter.
And when I think about how manytimes a student has decided
they're going to fail my classbecause they made a B on
something and somewhere alongthe line someone told them oh,
your GPA is the most importantthing, and it really isn't.
It's the learning part and it'sthe participation and it's the
(23:01):
ability to insert yourself intoa problem and solve it, rather
than cringe and run away.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
They're coming from the environment of high school,
where I'm top of my class.
I got a scholarship to be herebecause I'm top of my class.
A lot of students never made aB in their life and so in their
minds this is tragic and intheir minds it's maybe I don't
(23:32):
belong here, Maybe I'm not meantto be here because I'm not
succeeding right now, and sothat kind of goes back to that
messaging of it's okay tostruggle.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And the other thing too I don't belong here.
What is here here is auniversity, not a local high
school, and university means youhave the school of medicine,
the school of nursing, theschool of engineering, the
school of arts and sciences, theschool of education, psychology
, the school of business.
You come in and not even surewhat you want to study anyway,
(24:09):
and then there are these hugeentities faculty members that
are off busy doing their thing,and then some of them show up,
park their car, go to theirclass If no one reaches out to
them and they don't know how todo it, they get in their car and
they go home and they worry thewhole way home.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I tried to have like a purely social day.
I'm a second year student, butthis is like my fourth time on a
college campus, so just fromthat experience I have learned
how important belonging is.
And if you can do two days aweek that you're in classes and
then do a third day, that's justyour social day and that's when
your clubs meet and then we'retalking about eating on campus.
(24:50):
Another good belonging thing isdoing your homework on campus.
First of all, I think it helpssuccess and efficiency, because
if you're at home or somethinglike that, there's so many
distractions.
There's that nice comfy bed.
There's that welcoming gameconsole that has that favorite
video game sitting there waitingfor you.
There's that aspect.
But also, again, you run intopeople that you know when you're
(25:12):
sitting there on campus.
It's the tiny things, it reallyis.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
When you study on campus, where do you study?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
So I like to bounce around because something in me
will like if for three weeks I'min the same building, for some
reason my productivity goes down.
I don't.
Maybe you understand thepsychology of that better, but
for some reason it doesn't workfor me.
I'll shuffle from the libraryif I can find a quiet hallway
(25:38):
somewhere with some nice chairs.
It's all about the seating forme.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
And there's places all over campus aren't there.
In my building there's a coupleof areas that are just set
aside for students to study.
In the library, you have thosehallways along the ends of the
bookshelves, but there's alsospecial study rooms and now
there's a whole floor that'sdedicated to students being able
to study but also to be able towork in small groups because,
they have the whiteboards up,and so you can make noise and
(26:04):
study.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Another piece of advice is don't just study in
your major building, because Idon't even know what they teach
in there, but one of thebuildings.
It's next to the Ratliffbuilding.
They have a taxidermy in there,which I know isn't for everyone
, but for me is really cool tosit there studying next to a
wolf and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's the science building.
They're going to build a newone, but the business college.
They have a whole floor andthey've got a coffee bar at one
end and huge tables and some ofthem are high and some of them
are low.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And it's a business building, it feels business-y
and so when I feel like I needto get into that corporate
headspace and I need to get sodown, I like to go in there.
I don't know what it is aboutit, but yeah, it helps and you
get to meet people that youdon't meet in the College of
Arts and Science buildingbecause they're mostly in the
business classes.
I've actually met some businessguys just by being at that
table when small talk starts.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And then there's the places like the Writing Center
and places where you can make anappointment, go and get help.
But you can also just hang outin there because there's space
and it's quiet, but there's alsoother humans around and I think
actually it's nice to studywith other humans nearby the
loneliness of study I know.
For me, I find it veryreassuring, if I'm doing
(27:20):
research, to be doing it in thelibrary.
Now I can do a lot of it onlinein my computer at home, but
there's something about doing itin a community of thoughtful
reading people that kind ofmakes a difference.
I think the other thing tooabout belonging for students at
this level is that they'relearning who they are and a lot
of them don't know what theywant to be when they grow up.
(27:43):
The nurses are some of the onesI love the most because they
already have a focus.
An awful lot of students comein and they declare a major and
they join a college just becausethey have to.
But the truth is that untilthey finish doing that core
curriculum and they've tastedall the different disciplines, a
lot of them have no idea andthey don't know what they want
(28:04):
to be and so they don't knowexactly what to belong to and I
think encouraging them, likeyou've all said, is try anything
and don't just depend upon yourfamily or your locale to get
you started.
You know, to reach out.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And when you say that about coming in and not knowing
your major or realizing, onceyou get here you don't want to
be that major Again, it's thatmessaging of that's normal.
I cannot tell you how normal itis for a freshman to change
their major multiple times, andthat's okay.
(28:44):
And it's okay for them not toknow what they want to do.
And so I think, yes, thosefirst two years figuring out
what do I enjoy, what do I like?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And another thing is what kind of people are doing
that.
I remember early on, when I wasthinking about going back to
grad school, I took failings oftests and one of them was just
about the kind of personalitythat is a pediatrician versus
the kind of personality that's asurgeon, that's a librarian,
(29:16):
that's a military officer, allthese different things.
And the theory was is that,besides doing the work, you're
going to have to be around thosehumans, and what kind of humans
do you like to be around?
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I want to give a shout out that's probably
old-term, but to the careersuccess folks, because that's a
new resource that the universityhas provided, and our career
success person, nari Brakaman,is so busy.
She is developing career fairsand meeting with hopefully every
(29:53):
student, and she developed atimeline, even the beginning
nursing student.
This is what you need to do atthis level two.
Level three If you wait tillyou're about to graduate, it's
too late to get the internshipsand the residency.
So there's a lot of proactivethinking, which is amazing, and
(30:15):
then we also recommend thatstudents that are not successful
meet with her too, becausethere's a lot of parallel
careers to nursing, social workand different things.
Just so that is a greatresource.
Definitely need, maybeunderutilized, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I think they're developing their skills because
they've only had it for a littlewhile.
But one of the things I havenoticed too is that, like you
said, the student who starts outthinking they're gonna be a
nurse, and they realize oh, Idon't like anatomy and
physiology.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I don't like sick people being around people when
they're happy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't like to be around gross germy people.
After all, I remember a studentwho came to me and she says my
parents are invested in my beinga nurse and that's a big
problem.
You want to talk about that alittle bit.
When you get to college and youdiscover you're different than
something either you planned onor your family planned on or
(31:13):
your family expects.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Absolutely.
You know, in counseling we'veseen many students who the
family expectation was thismajor or a particular route or
whatever, and then when theyrealize this is not for me, just
that fear of changing, or howis my family going to react?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's a belonging issue too, isn't it because
you're no longer quite belongingto the family that raised you?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And I think some of that from parents.
It comes from a place of loveand caring, but maybe they don't
realize that there are a lot ofdifferent things that you can
do with, a lot of differentmajors that just off the top of
your head, don't sound lucrative, and they put this box around
(32:05):
their student and then studentsare afraid to even have that
conversation with their parentsbecause they feel like they're
disappointing.
And we probably see that a lotin in nursing.
They're just not meant to benurses and but they feel a
pressure from family to to be anurse and so that makes the
(32:26):
academics more challengingbecause they really don't want
that career and I think.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
A lot of times families don't understand it.
A lot of times we don'tunderstand it, and I didn't know
how I was gonna become acollege professor until I
finally just muddled on throughand I know, for example, in
English, a lot of folks will saywhat can you do with English
major?
Actually, there's a lot ofwriting, there's a lot of
editing, there's actually a lotof managing and research work
(32:53):
that you can do, but one of theproblems we have right now is
our economy is changing so muchthat students that are working
today to graduate will end updoing jobs that haven't been
invented yet.
Wait until chat.
Gpt has promulgated itselfthrough the whole world and and
who knows what new jobs aregonna be available.
The issue of I've got to get ajob that pays well when I
(33:18):
graduate from college adds tothe anxiety.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
And I think there comes a point where you know
because Mr Rogers says, knowingyourself is hard, it takes a
lifetime, but it's worth it.
And so part of that not beingable to do what you want, what
your family wants to do, andsometimes you want to do it and
sometimes you don't want to doit but having that honest
(33:43):
conversation as an adult and say, look, I love you, it's a
ground rule, sound, I love you,you're my parents, I respect you
, but this is not working outand would you be willing to
think about another route orwhatever.
So just having thatconversation, instead of just
denying it and ignoring it, isprobably the healthiest thing to
(34:03):
do.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Nathan has a bit of a story about that.
Right, you didn't know therewas such thing is.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, right now I'm a podcast producer right for the
university and I came from areally small town and never
would I have imagined that aposition like that ever would
have existed, let alone couldhave known that it was something
I was passionate about.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
And good at.
And good at and that you canmake a living at it later on.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, you get into it.
And when you think podcastproducer, you're like, oh, I
guess that's a cool hobby orwhatever.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, it's a profession .
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, you look at the top of the industry and Joe
Rogan just signed a what a 200300 million dollar deal with
Spotify for podcasting.
Yeah, it turns out there is aquite a career in there if you
want to go that direction.
So it's cool, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So belonging does have something to do with
figuring out who you are.
And then, finding your cohortfinding your tribe.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I wanted to talk about belonging and wellness,
kind of the chicken in the eggquestion of like how does
belonging affect your wellnessand then how can your wellness
affect your ability to findbelonging?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of different things that
can impact both ways, but themore that you are comfortable
with yourself, the more that youare able to take care of
yourself, the better you areable to connect with others.
If you're not taking care ofyourself, if you're completely
(35:35):
run down, you can't connect wellwith others because it's too
exhausting.
So being able to take care ofyour wellness and do what you
need to do to take care of thatmakes a big difference in your
ability to reach out to others.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
What do you list on your list of how to take care of
yourself?
What is that going to include?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Everything from, and I think it's individualized some
people.
If you're an extrovert, takingcare of yourself is being around
people.
If you're an introvert, takingcare of yourself is finding some
time alone and private andthings like that being out in
nature, just taking a chance tobreathe, counseling.
(36:15):
For many people, a lot of it'svery individual.
It's also some basic stuff tolike getting enough sleep.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yes eating well, not overindulging in moving when you
said I never really thoughtabout wellness and belonging
connecting as much, but I youcan visualize the word wellness
and the word belonging and youknow how you have those arrows
going this way.
So that's pointing to that andthat's pointing to that, or even
(36:44):
like a circle, and lonelinessand social isolation are
becoming the new epidemic thenew major concern.
It's a major concern, and sohaving those social connections
are so important.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
What I've witnessed with friends, with myself, with.
I don't know if this is new.
I wasn't alive during othergenerations.
I don't know if this is just us, but it certainly is us that it
creates this downward spiral ofyou're not taking care of
yourself, so it's hard to belong, it's hard to have the
confidence to feel like you fitin, it's hard to have the energy
, like you said, and so thenyou're not fitting in, then you
(37:26):
feel like you don't have a place, so it's harder to take care of
yourself.
So what do you say to students,who are people in general, who
are experiencing that downwardspiral?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
That's a good point.
When we did the project, thething that I noticed is, if I'm
trying to sleep more, I'm gonnahave to manage my time more.
I can't just not do homeworkand do it like at midnight and
then get sleep from two to five.
I can't do that.
So everything affectseverything.
(37:58):
And then if I manage, then ifI'm sleeping better, I'm
thinking, wow, maybe I'm ahealthy person, maybe I need to
eat better and I don't want tojust not exercise at all,
because maybe I really am ahealthy person, I need to
exercise too.
Once you start as opposed tothe downward spiral and upward
spiral you start doing one thing.
(38:18):
Good, it really motivates youto do another thing, and that
motivates you to do anotherthing, and so it's just a
logical progression.
So I don't know if anybody'sever realized that or thought
about that more, but that'ssomething I noticed and the
students would say I starteddoing this because I had to do
this so maybe your suggestionwould be to just start with one
(38:40):
thing and let it domino effect,is it?
yeah, try the easiest thing, trywalking.
And then you don't want to eatpoorly because you just exercise
, you don't know.
Cancel that out.
Not that you can't have ahamburger once a week, or
whatever your your guiltypleasure is.
But yeah, start small, startwith the low-hanging fruit, so
(39:00):
to speak.
We have to walk to some degree,unless we're riding, you know
something.
So walking is a good place tostart.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
I would say yeah, I think you know, do that one
thing again.
Depending on how much you'respiraling, counseling might be
that one thing.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I was gonna say ask for help yeah ask for a partner
who walks with you comes youneed more than just to walk.
Absolutely knowing when to askfor help is something I get my
students a list of skills, andone of them you.
We posted them on one of theearlier episodes.
But one of them is knowing whento ask for help, and I think
that is something a lot ofstudents don't know when to do
(39:40):
that.
I want to add somethinginteresting.
When you were using the wordisolation, I was suddenly
thinking about something I teach.
So I teach the romantic period,which was a world in which
everybody lived in the countryand they all farmed and they all
saw each other and also, by theway, it was an Anglican world
where everybody went to theChurch of England pretty much.
And then when the Victorianperiod comes along and they
(40:02):
suddenly shifted over to anindustrial world, an industrial
economy, and people moved to thecities, guess what the biggest
problem was?
Isolation.
People were not you, theydidn't have the same built-in
structures.
And I was thinking about howwe've been moving from whatever
kind of economy we've had abusiness economy, professional
economy we're moving more andmore into a digital economy
(40:25):
which is caring with it its ownload of isolation, and we've
been complaining a lot of theissues right now on COVID, but
actually what COVID did wassimply push us into the digital
world faster.
We were heading there alreadyyeah and so I'm thinking in
terms of just cultural history,yes, so that's true, we are in
(40:48):
our own little rooms.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
I have moved into my daughter's bedroom and I have a
little mini office right therewith the closet and the books
and everything.
But if I have a graduatestudent that lives in Dallas and
she has a question about anassignment, I can say hey, I can
hop on, zoom at three and so Ifeel more connected to her.
And then once a month we havenurse discretion fellowship, a
(41:13):
nurse group, professional group.
We meet with people from Oregonand Delaware.
So from that standpoint it'sincreased.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Our connections, and I was gonna say the same thing,
and where I was going with thiswas just that maybe we wouldn't
shouldn't be quite so doom andgloom about what's happening to
us, that this isn't the end oftime for us, that what we'll
discover is new ways ofconnecting.
I remember the very first yearI was doing online classes.
I had a student in China and astudent in West Germany and
(41:46):
everywhere in between, and weactually it was I mean, it was
online and I required them tomeet with me at that time and
one of them had to get up at 3am to do her class.
But we still know each other.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I another question that I had written down was just
with y'all's experience 31years teaching, of course, all
your experience with thecounseling.
I also wanted to hear y'all'sopinion on where you feel like
belonging should fall on thepriority list for a college
student.
That's one of the struggles,especially just starting out
(42:17):
colleges figuring out, it's timemanagement and it's not only
time management, it'sprioritizing, because there's
just so much going on and youcan't do it all.
So where do you feel likebelonging falls on that list or
should ideally fall?
Speaker 5 (42:32):
I was doing a little research before this and one
article I read said it's numberthree, you know, in Maslow's
hierarchy of needs yeah so it'sup there it is you and three out
of how many?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
five, right, yeah, so it's right.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Smack in the middle it's up there and it needs to be
to me.
Awareness is so huge like wedon't know what we don't know
sure, absolutely so I didn'treally know that much about
podcast producing.
So now I know I'm gonna be alittle bit of a confirmation
bias when I see that out there.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
So just being aware, we all in the university have
awareness of the importance ofbelonging and what, also
something you just mentioned is,besides faculty and staff
reaching out, the students thatalready belong, I hope, will
spend more time reaching out toinclude others, that they don't
have to keep their group closed,that opening up their arms to
(43:29):
others, to the new students, isan important one.
So where are we on this?
What do we have more?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
to say.
I did want to ask and maybethis can be my final question,
but again, what's so special isyou'll have years of experience
and wellness and belonging, aswe've talked there hand-in-hand.
And so I'm just kind of curiousbecause in my own mind I'm
trying to to build out, you know, say we're, we're cooking
(43:55):
belonging.
What are the ingredients to it?
Because the way I'munderstanding walking away from
this conversation is thatbelonging is, is the ingredients
to belonging is just effort andopportunity and effort, effort,
effort, effort is.
Would you agree with that?
Or what else is in the recipeto create belonging?
Speaker 5 (44:18):
I think two things, and they both start with a is.
It is attention and affectionoh you have to be like a person,
you have to like people.
I'm not gonna say love, but youhave to like people and your
actions follow your thought.
I mean, if you act a certainway, you're gonna feel a certain
way.
So if I act kind to you, fakeuntil you make it yeah, I'm
(44:40):
gonna feel kindness towards youand just paying attention.
So I think those are two beingaware, looking for things as
opposed to just being moreintrospective, maybe yeah, yeah,
like that.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Anything you'd like to add to that?
Speaker 4 (44:57):
yeah, I think, coming to that point of realizing that
it's okay to struggle, it'sokay when you have things going
on, that I I just really feelstrongly that there is that
sense of if I realize that thereis some normalcy in this, then
(45:24):
I'm much more likely to one notbeat myself up, but two notice
when others are feeling that aswell.
How I think there's twofold isthe one is how do I belong?
But then the second one is onceyou feel that you belong, how
(45:46):
are you including others?
How are you noticing whensomeone looks like they don't
belong?
How am I bringing that personin to my circle?
So even those who feel I belong, I feel great, I'm confident in
myself.
At that point, what are youdoing to make sure that someone
(46:09):
else has that as well?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
so maybe the two you would add would be self
acceptance, self acceptance andthen inclusivity would you say
yeah, yeah and I think one ofthe messages we want to get
across is that no one is reallyever alone unless they choose to
be, and sometimes, when youchoose to be, you have to.
(46:31):
But that be all belonging atsome level to some group as you
move out of your family is goingto be an important part of your
growth, and we know from thescience and the research that if
you belong and you connect, youjust do better academically
which is ultimately the goal ofall of this is getting through
(46:54):
college and graduating andgetting on with a life, but that
the skills that you develop ofreaching out and finding your
tribe or your cohort or yourbest friend or whoever, those
skills are things that will helpyou when you graduate like we
talked before learning to reachout, learning to ask for help.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
Not waiting until it's dire, but learning to ask
for help early on and justrecognize belonging is a thing.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
It's a thing and it's a thing that's important.
It's a middle of Maslow'sessential needs and it's also
something.
If you learn how to do it,you're gonna be a more
successful human being yes, andto here at the University.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
I mean we have so many resources right for
students and I've had studentsalmost apologetic for accepting
a resource and we're we're here.
Our whole purpose is to be herefor the student and we want you
to reach out.
We want to be a part of yourlife and sometimes it's just
(48:08):
accepting that being okay with.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I can't thank you all enough for spending this time
with us and sharing your wisdomand your attention and your
affection, if you will.
You certainly are models to allof us about how to facilitate
belonging and wellness, andwellness, for sure, and for all
of that ends up adding tograduation.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I think that covers our deep dive on belonging.
If you have any questions, asalways, you can email us at
adrquestions at gmailcom.
Thanks so much for listening.
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
Systems Academy of DistinguishedTeachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Her co-host and multimediaeditor, nathan Witt, provides a
(00:26):
student perspective.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
Texas at Tanya.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hi, I'm Catherine Ross, and this is a podcast for
parents, students in school whoare thinking about going to
college, college students whoare already here, adults who are
thinking of maybe going back tocollege and really anyone who
wants to know more about whatlife in colleges and
universities is like today inthe US of A.
I'm here with my friend, nathanWitt, who's a student here.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
If you'd like to ask Dr Ross a question, you can
email us atADRquestionsatgmailcom.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit more about belonging,
dive a little deeper into whatit means and kind of dig into
the mental health side ofbelonging what that looks like,
especially in today's world.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah.
So we've already explained toeverybody that the three pillars
of student success are finances, advising and belonging, and
the more we've talked about, themore we realize we need a lot
more to know about what goesinto belonging in college,
because college students todayare such a different mix than
they were even ten years ago,and especially since we have
online courses and things likethat.
(01:39):
Our guests today are two peoplethat I absolutely admire,
respect and enjoy being with,and every now and then we do
group hugs.
These are the two co-chairs ofthe University-wide Wellness
Committee.
One is Kim Livingston Cobb, whois the associate dean of
students.
She's a licensed professionalcounselor and licensed
professional counselorsupervisor and in those
(02:01):
capacities at UT Tyler, shesupervises the student
counseling center and ourfinancial wellness program,
which is again part of studentsuccess and the student
accessibility and resourcescenter.
According to that, shesupervises our assistant dean of
students, who takes care ofstudent assistance, the advocacy
center and the care team, andfolks out there need to know
(02:22):
that most universities havesomething like this.
A care team is a group that'ssitting there ready to respond
whenever a faculty or staff, oreven a student, recognizes that
one of the students has behaviorissues, attendance problems,
perhaps their safety is inquestion, whether they're having
academic problems or financialproblems, or even just
conducting themselves in waysthat suggest that maybe they
(02:45):
need a little extra help.
So Kim is in charge of all ofthat and maintains a pretty
healthy wellness herself, whichsometimes, with a workload like
that, I wonder how you do it.
My other guest is Dr BelindaDeal.
She is a professor of nursingin our school of nursing at UT
Tyler.
It's been here for many yearsand she has taught everything
from health assessment forundergraduate nursing to our
(03:08):
beginning graduate.
Students are working toward aPhD in nursing and at the moment
one of the courses she'steaching is called culture and
spirituality which is anelective for nurses and we were
talking about it earlier.
It's something that's probablyreally important for a nurse to
have under their belt.
So, having told you all thatabout them, I think you can tell
that they're very well preparedto talk to us about what
(03:29):
they've experienced and how ourstudents are learning to belong
maybe not always belonging andwhat is involved in them.
So, kim, why don't you startout by telling us how is
belonging going?
That's a big, wide question,but it gives you a chance to
pick whatever you want to talkabout.
When you think about the issueof students belonging, what are
(03:49):
the biggest, I guess, barriersto our students belonging?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I think there's multiple.
Yeah, of course, some of whatwe see obviously is some mental
health concerns and some of thatcomes from not feeling like
they belong.
Sometimes what I see and whatI've seen over the years is
students may have unrealisticexpectations when they come to
(04:17):
college.
They expect college to be whatthey've seen on TV to you,
instantly, you know, get in witha group of friends, you have
this great time.
So you know, our brighteststudents sometimes haven't
really learned how to study andthe academics is much more
(04:39):
challenging than they thought itwould be.
To some extent, when studentsbegin to experience challenges
whether that's socially,academically or whatever, they
think they're the only ones andeverybody hides it.
Well, social media, we put on abright, shiny face, all of
those kinds of things and wherewe can help with that is really
(05:03):
our messaging that it isperfectly normal for a freshman
coming in for the first time tohave challenges and to struggle.
That's okay.
Change whatever change, it isgood change, bad change that is
very stressful.
Sometimes we forget and makethat seem unusual that someone
(05:27):
is stressing.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So they come in expecting to instantly belong
the way they did in high schoolprobably right, they had a lot
of friends they'd made over theyears.
They maybe were on choir orcheering squad, they were a
student athlete of some sort,and a lot of times they don't do
that instantly.
When they get here, they have akind of instant shock of having
(05:49):
been a fairly big fish in thesmall pond.
Now they're a little minnow andthere's all sorts of things
they don't even know for sureabout.
What's going on and in factthat's one of the things we
wanted to talk about and I thinkwe've talked about in some of
the other episodes is thatthere's a lot of things to get
involved in, but you got to knowwhat they are to get involved
in terms of.
(06:09):
So you're talking aboutfreshmen.
What about many of the studentsthat you get?
Belinda want to be a nurse andit's interesting to me who teach
freshmen in the core class isthat the nursing students
already have a purpose and sothey already belong.
Isn't that right?
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yeah, I would say the highest percentage, probably
95%, do want to be there.
There are a few that are therethat you know.
That comes out later, but thatdoes help a lot and along the
way they figure out if they'renot successful in a course then
the reality that maybe they needa different major or something
(06:45):
like that.
But I just wanted to say toothat there's a term called
connect before content, and soyou have to connect with the
students before they can listento you and really like care
before content to oh boy, do Iagree with you on that one.
Yeah, so you have to, and can Ijust talk about that Talk about
(07:10):
it.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, and we can clip and move things around because
a lot of times we sort of wander.
Let's talk about that.
Connect before content.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
So in my class, the last face-to-face class I had
was wellness and healthpromotion and I love that class.
Unfortunately, I'm teaching ata different level now, but I
will always love that class.
And so I look out at the bigauditorium and I start making
connections.
We start out with the nameTense and Luke.
That you, and then Luke did Isee you on campus walking last
(07:42):
week and you got a haircut andtell me about your laptop,
whatever you call it, thestickers and what does your
t-shirt mean, and that kind ofthing, and that just brings me
so much joy and it and I thinkit brings them joy for the most
important, unless they're veryintroverted, perhaps they're
like leave me alone, maybe, butbut yeah, that just knowing and
(08:04):
that lays the foundation for thenext thing.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I think that belonging to a class is an
important way to get themstarted and when professors do
that, when they reach out to thestudents one by one.
And a minute ago she said nametents and what those are is.
We take hard-card stock paper.
We write their first names on.
It would have them write theirnames on, and so they have those
sitting on their desk the firstcouple weeks, or at least for
(08:30):
me, about first two weeks, tolearn their names.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Yeah, and that goes the way.
They get tired of it or theyforget it, so I just give up.
I would love for them to haveit the whole semester, but then
always work out that way.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, connecting with teachers is an important part
of this job and yet students alot of times are afraid to.
We do office hours and we sitthere with nobody showing up,
unless we require them to come,and then they get to know what
you said a minute ago came aboutwhat they thought college was
gonna be like when they werehigh school.
(09:02):
They all think we're just ogres.
They really think thatprofessors are really awful,
right, right.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I don't know, did your teachers warn you about how
rough and certainly I think Iwas like middle school was like,
oh, high school is gonna behorrible and they're gonna
they're gonna make you actdifferent in high school.
You get to high school and itwasn't that way, but the high
school teachers were likecollege is gonna be crazy and
then you get to college is notreally that way.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Professors actually like students and want them to
belong and so what Kim's justtold us is that they have a hard
time learning how to belongbecause they don't have the old
structure.
What are some of the pieces ofadvice you can give us to put
out there in the community foranybody about going to college
(09:51):
or is already in college?
What do you recommend that theydo to take care of their own
belonging?
We can supply stuff, but theygot to step up.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, and there's everything from going to your
faculty's office hours.
Get to know your faculty, letthem get to know you.
Then when you do have aquestion or a concern, it's a
whole lot easier to ask.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And also academic advisors, nathan Sure.
A whole session on that as well.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yes, absolutely.
And then what are theyinterested in?
A lot of times you may havesomeone who's super introverted
they're not gonna go out to thebig events or things like that
but what are they interested in?
Are they interested in service?
Are they interested insomething like that?
A majority of the time, thereis some organization out there
(10:42):
that will fit just about anyinterest, and if there's not one
, you could create one with fivepeople.
Things like that connectingwith your RA's.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Now you mentioned RA's, because I was about to say
some students live on campusand the ones who live on campus,
is that a built-in beginning ofbelonging Way?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
easier.
It's way easier, having havelived on campus and have lived
off campus.
It's way easier.
But, like you said to me, thenumber one thing you can do to
try to find belonging on campusis finding those interest groups
.
There's clubs, organizationsand groups and some campuses are
better at making them visiblethan others, but every campus
(11:22):
has a ton of them and it doesn'tmatter if you care about
service or you care about, like,video games.
He didn't say it in theinterview, but on our previous
belonging episode with JoshNeves, when I sat down with him
in his office, he told me abouta hot tub club we used to have
on campus and like the wholeclub was just like they would
reserve the hot tub and justhang out in the hot tub and so
(11:44):
it doesn't matter what you careabout, especially the bigger the
campuses.
I know at UNT they have asquirrel watching club.
So those are just anecdotestowards there's everything.
There's a million ways to getplugged in, especially when it
comes to the clubs and groupsand organizations and stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You have to show up though.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
You have to be there.
Yeah, you have to be on campus,especially for commuters and
stuff.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
So my daughter went to Baylor and she was involved
in an engaged learning communityand so it was a general topic.
It was supposed to be women'shistory but the faculty ended up
moving so it ended up beingjust like a sociology club.
But she's still in contact withher best friend that was her
roommate, and then two otherpeople, so that's very powerful.
(12:29):
We are trying to do that nowwith nursing and they're trying
to have a floor at Ohol.
I believe that's going to benursing majors.
It's just that you're myneighbor and then you're setting
pathophysiology or anatomy orwhatever and let's hang out.
So just that close proximity ofhaving somebody.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
The proximity is amazing how much it matters.
I know, for example, if I'mteaching a Monday, wednesday,
friday schedule, the people Isee are only the people that
have that schedule, and then thenext semester they always
switch you over to a Tuesday,thursday schedule, and sometimes
I never see the people from thelast semester and we're all so
busy that if you don't literallyrun into them, it's difficult
(13:14):
to pull together a time.
And because now, theundergraduate college I went to
you'll love this.
It was a seated served lunchmeal in this big dining hall.
There were only 700.
There was no women's college inVirginia, ancient women's
college like Sweetbriar MaryBaldwin, and we literally all
shared a meal together and thefaculty came in every day.
(13:37):
Talk about finding a way tobelong.
But for us, people kind of runin and out of the Met, which is
our campus.
If they live off campus, theymay not eat on campus at all.
I think freshmen have arequired meal ticket though,
don't they?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
If they live on campus.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
If they live on campus, the online, the kids who
live on campus have thedormitory or departments to
connect them and they have thepossibility of eating at the
same time.
But what about those commuters?
Because we have a good numberof commuters.
What do they do?
What can we tell them to do?
Eat on campus.
(14:14):
Eat on campus, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
That's literally a really big one.
I'm a commuter and I try evenif I don't eat in the Met and I
just go grab Chick-fil-A orsomething.
It's real easy to try to justgrab in, hop in your car and
take off, but I try really hardto sit down because I can't even
count how many times somebodyfrom a class will pass by.
In fact, one of my good friends.
(14:37):
That friendship all startedfrom.
We were in one class togetherand she walked by and was like
hey, dude, do you realize thisassignment is due today.
And I was like no, and she waslike me neither.
And so we sat down at the tableand started cramming for it.
And then we had another classtogether and since then we've
been friends and now we hang outoutside of school.
It can start like that reallyeasily, of just like.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Well, study groups are something I've always tried
to yeah absolutely.
Do you do that as well?
Belinda in the nursing program.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yes, that's very important and I've always wished
hoped that there was a morestructured way to do that, but
it's very organic.
I'm sitting next to someone, orI had them in Path O, and we
get along.
But yeah, that's a great way.
And I would say the studentorganizations too.
In nursing we have two studentorganizations, the National
(15:27):
Student Nurses Association andwe have Nurses Christian
Fellowship, and I've beeninvolved in Nurses Christian
Fellowship as an advisor throughthe years, and so that's a way
where students can really getwith a group and find a common
purpose.
And then lately we've beenworking together, both of the
student organizations workingtogether on different projects,
(15:47):
and that's been good too,because nursing students think
they have to study all the timeand there's a high percentage
that think they don't have anytime for recreation all those
things that make you well.
So that is a challenge to talkto them about that and help them
(16:09):
have a more balanced life andexperience.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Now you have done an interesting program with
students to address that exactissue, haven't you?
Would you tell us about that?
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yes, that is the Quality Improvement Project,
which is a project in theWellness and Health Promotion
course, where students do awellness survey and they go oh,
I need more sleep or I need todrink more water, I need more
movement, I need more exercise,my finances need to be better,
I'm not saving any money.
Spiritually, I'm low.
(16:41):
I need to ramp up that.
So they do an assessment andthen they pick one thing and
they pick most people like todrink more water, drink less
caffeine.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
This is students in your class.
Yes, students in the class, soit's a group that you meet with
regularly, and so it's a projectwithin a class.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It's an assignment, oh, assignment.
It's really the biggestassignment.
It's 30% of the grade.
Is it successful?
It's so rewarding to read thefinal project where they're like
this changed my life, I'mwalking more.
And they do a smart goal.
I want to exercise three timesa week and then they do an
(17:19):
immediate goal and then they doa yearly goal, like over a year,
so they really look ahead.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And how is that project structured?
Maybe all of?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
us can borrow it.
Yeah, someone wants to do it athome?
Yeah, I might be interested inthat.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Yeah, I can provide a link to the wellness compass.
Once you finish the survey, itgives you like a compass where
it tells you where you fit inall the areas.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
We have.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
that's perfect yeah because on our website for the
podcast we always include linksto the.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Okay, we'll be sure to include that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So one of the big effects is to teach them some
real careful self-discipline andself-care, isn't it?
Which is hard for everybody?
Who thinks they have to studyall the time, neglect themselves
first of all.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
So we hope that breaks a little bit of that
cycle where they can see thebenefits, because we're
creatures of habit and we do thesame thing over and over.
If you break that habit in fourweeks is a pretty good time to
have something new.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's some of the best psychological principles
there being put in play, wow.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Can we for a second?
Y'all both co-chair of theuniversity-wide wellness
committee.
Can we talk about that wordwellness?
Because I'd like to knowy'all's definition of it?
Speaker 4 (18:33):
So it really is a holistic thing.
So everything from our physicalwellness, psychological
wellness, can be spirituality,it can be just a very wide range
of things, and one of thethings that we do which I really
(18:55):
like is that a lot of peopleacross campus are doing things
that support wellness, butnobody knows what anybody else
is doing.
One of the major goals of thiscommittee is to find out that
information and consolidate itinto you.
Go to this one webpage.
You can find out everythingthat's happening related to
(19:16):
wellness and people can accessit.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And some of the examples are things like
everything from the physicaltrainers to folks working in the
counseling center, the writingcenter, the what else.
We had a gathering of all thesefolks.
We can believe how many peoplewere doing different things
Wellness walks, the RAsoftentimes have programs.
There's an internal mentoringprogram within one of the in the
(19:42):
psychology department, and whatwe realize is lots of people
are trying to attend to theseneeds and yet there's still
folks that slip out and don'tget to belong.
So what do we do for the onesthat aren't belonging enough?
And is it worse now?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I think to some extent it is.
I think COVID really impactedin so many different ways.
One of those is just spendingso much time isolated A lot of
our incoming students or a lotof our current students.
They lost a whole lot of highschool.
(20:20):
They lost a whole lot of thatlearning, that personal
face-to-face interaction.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Or the freshman year in college?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yes, yes, and so there is that sense of I don't
really even know how to interact.
I think there's a lot moresocial anxiety, but also I don't
know that I'm normal.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Are there remedies for that?
Are we looking at ten yearsworth of students, from the ones
who had it in middle school allthe way to their freshman or
sophomore year in college thatare just going to have to
struggle with this?
Or does it from yourpsychological training?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I think a lot of it is normalizing Is being able
what do?
You mean by that?
Normalizing?
Yes, so being able to say it isnot unusual for you to
experience this, that eventhough you look out and you
don't see anyone else struggling, I can't tell you how many
people are Really are yes.
So I think when our messagingcomes out to say you are not
(21:28):
crazy, you are not unusual, youare, there is a better sense of
belonging when our expectationsaren't matching what we think
everybody else is doing orknowing, or nobody else is
experiencing this kind of stressor anxiety or depression or any
of that, because what we see onsocial media is perfection.
(21:48):
We put this perfect faceforward and if we truly believe
what's on social media, we willthink we are incredibly unusual,
total failures.
We don't live up, and I wouldsay from every direction, from
our faculty to our staff.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Freshman grad students.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yes, being able to say a lot of people struggle
it's not unusual, and it's okayand it's normal to seek help.
It's normal to either go to thecounseling center.
It's okay.
If you get an email from thecare team that says how can we
help, it's okay.
(22:27):
And I think so often there'ssuch a fear that if I
acknowledge that I'm struggling,then I belong even less.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And they struggle over some things that really
don't matter.
And when I think about how manytimes a student has decided
they're going to fail my classbecause they made a B on
something and somewhere alongthe line someone told them oh,
your GPA is the most importantthing, and it really isn't.
It's the learning part and it'sthe participation and it's the
(23:01):
ability to insert yourself intoa problem and solve it, rather
than cringe and run away.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
They're coming from the environment of high school,
where I'm top of my class.
I got a scholarship to be herebecause I'm top of my class.
A lot of students never made aB in their life and so in their
minds this is tragic and intheir minds it's maybe I don't
(23:32):
belong here, Maybe I'm not meantto be here because I'm not
succeeding right now, and sothat kind of goes back to that
messaging of it's okay tostruggle.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And the other thing too I don't belong here.
What is here here is auniversity, not a local high
school, and university means youhave the school of medicine,
the school of nursing, theschool of engineering, the
school of arts and sciences, theschool of education, psychology
, the school of business.
You come in and not even surewhat you want to study anyway,
(24:09):
and then there are these hugeentities faculty members that
are off busy doing their thing,and then some of them show up,
park their car, go to theirclass If no one reaches out to
them and they don't know how todo it, they get in their car and
they go home and they worry thewhole way home.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I tried to have like a purely social day.
I'm a second year student, butthis is like my fourth time on a
college campus, so just fromthat experience I have learned
how important belonging is.
And if you can do two days aweek that you're in classes and
then do a third day, that's justyour social day and that's when
your clubs meet and then we'retalking about eating on campus.
(24:50):
Another good belonging thing isdoing your homework on campus.
First of all, I think it helpssuccess and efficiency, because
if you're at home or somethinglike that, there's so many
distractions.
There's that nice comfy bed.
There's that welcoming gameconsole that has that favorite
video game sitting there waitingfor you.
There's that aspect.
But also, again, you run intopeople that you know when you're
(25:12):
sitting there on campus.
It's the tiny things, it reallyis.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
When you study on campus, where do you study?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
So I like to bounce around because something in me
will like if for three weeks I'min the same building, for some
reason my productivity goes down.
I don't.
Maybe you understand thepsychology of that better, but
for some reason it doesn't workfor me.
I'll shuffle from the libraryif I can find a quiet hallway
(25:38):
somewhere with some nice chairs.
It's all about the seating forme.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
And there's places all over campus aren't there.
In my building there's a coupleof areas that are just set
aside for students to study.
In the library, you have thosehallways along the ends of the
bookshelves, but there's alsospecial study rooms and now
there's a whole floor that'sdedicated to students being able
to study but also to be able towork in small groups because,
they have the whiteboards up,and so you can make noise and
(26:04):
study.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Another piece of advice is don't just study in
your major building, because Idon't even know what they teach
in there, but one of thebuildings.
It's next to the Ratliffbuilding.
They have a taxidermy in there,which I know isn't for everyone
, but for me is really cool tosit there studying next to a
wolf and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's the science building.
They're going to build a newone, but the business college.
They have a whole floor andthey've got a coffee bar at one
end and huge tables and some ofthem are high and some of them
are low.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
And it's a business building, it feels business-y
and so when I feel like I needto get into that corporate
headspace and I need to get sodown, I like to go in there.
I don't know what it is aboutit, but yeah, it helps and you
get to meet people that youdon't meet in the College of
Arts and Science buildingbecause they're mostly in the
business classes.
I've actually met some businessguys just by being at that
table when small talk starts.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And then there's the places like the Writing Center
and places where you can make anappointment, go and get help.
But you can also just hang outin there because there's space
and it's quiet, but there's alsoother humans around and I think
actually it's nice to studywith other humans nearby the
loneliness of study I know.
For me, I find it veryreassuring, if I'm doing
(27:20):
research, to be doing it in thelibrary.
Now I can do a lot of it onlinein my computer at home, but
there's something about doing itin a community of thoughtful
reading people that kind ofmakes a difference.
I think the other thing tooabout belonging for students at
this level is that they'relearning who they are and a lot
of them don't know what theywant to be when they grow up.
(27:43):
The nurses are some of the onesI love the most because they
already have a focus.
An awful lot of students comein and they declare a major and
they join a college just becausethey have to.
But the truth is that untilthey finish doing that core
curriculum and they've tastedall the different disciplines, a
lot of them have no idea andthey don't know what they want
(28:04):
to be and so they don't knowexactly what to belong to and I
think encouraging them, likeyou've all said, is try anything
and don't just depend upon yourfamily or your locale to get
you started.
You know, to reach out.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
And when you say that about coming in and not knowing
your major or realizing, onceyou get here you don't want to
be that major Again, it's thatmessaging of that's normal.
I cannot tell you how normal itis for a freshman to change
their major multiple times, andthat's okay.
(28:44):
And it's okay for them not toknow what they want to do.
And so I think, yes, thosefirst two years figuring out
what do I enjoy, what do I like?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And another thing is what kind of people are doing
that.
I remember early on, when I wasthinking about going back to
grad school, I took failings oftests and one of them was just
about the kind of personalitythat is a pediatrician versus
the kind of personality that's asurgeon, that's a librarian,
(29:16):
that's a military officer, allthese different things.
And the theory was is that,besides doing the work, you're
going to have to be around thosehumans, and what kind of humans
do you like to be around?
Speaker 5 (29:28):
I want to give a shout out that's probably
old-term, but to the careersuccess folks, because that's a
new resource that the universityhas provided, and our career
success person, nari Brakaman,is so busy.
She is developing career fairsand meeting with hopefully every
(29:53):
student, and she developed atimeline, even the beginning
nursing student.
This is what you need to do atthis level two.
Level three If you wait tillyou're about to graduate, it's
too late to get the internshipsand the residency.
So there's a lot of proactivethinking, which is amazing, and
(30:15):
then we also recommend thatstudents that are not successful
meet with her too, becausethere's a lot of parallel
careers to nursing, social workand different things.
Just so that is a greatresource.
Definitely need, maybeunderutilized, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I think they're developing their skills because
they've only had it for a littlewhile.
But one of the things I havenoticed too is that, like you
said, the student who starts outthinking they're gonna be a
nurse, and they realize oh, Idon't like anatomy and
physiology.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I don't like sick people being around people when
they're happy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't like to be around gross germy people.
After all, I remember a studentwho came to me and she says my
parents are invested in my beinga nurse and that's a big
problem.
You want to talk about that alittle bit.
When you get to college and youdiscover you're different than
something either you planned onor your family planned on or
(31:13):
your family expects.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Absolutely.
You know, in counseling we'veseen many students who the
family expectation was thismajor or a particular route or
whatever, and then when theyrealize this is not for me, just
that fear of changing, or howis my family going to react?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's a belonging issue too, isn't it because
you're no longer quite belongingto the family that raised you?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And I think some of that from parents.
It comes from a place of loveand caring, but maybe they don't
realize that there are a lot ofdifferent things that you can
do with, a lot of differentmajors that just off the top of
your head, don't sound lucrative, and they put this box around
(32:05):
their student and then studentsare afraid to even have that
conversation with their parentsbecause they feel like they're
disappointing.
And we probably see that a lotin in nursing.
They're just not meant to benurses and but they feel a
pressure from family to to be anurse and so that makes the
(32:26):
academics more challengingbecause they really don't want
that career and I think.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
A lot of times families don't understand it.
A lot of times we don'tunderstand it, and I didn't know
how I was gonna become acollege professor until I
finally just muddled on throughand I know, for example, in
English, a lot of folks will saywhat can you do with English
major?
Actually, there's a lot ofwriting, there's a lot of
editing, there's actually a lotof managing and research work
(32:53):
that you can do, but one of theproblems we have right now is
our economy is changing so muchthat students that are working
today to graduate will end updoing jobs that haven't been
invented yet.
Wait until chat.
Gpt has promulgated itselfthrough the whole world and and
who knows what new jobs aregonna be available.
The issue of I've got to get ajob that pays well when I
(33:18):
graduate from college adds tothe anxiety.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
And I think there comes a point where you know
because Mr Rogers says, knowingyourself is hard, it takes a
lifetime, but it's worth it.
And so part of that not beingable to do what you want, what
your family wants to do, andsometimes you want to do it and
sometimes you don't want to doit but having that honest
(33:43):
conversation as an adult and say, look, I love you, it's a
ground rule, sound, I love you,you're my parents, I respect you
, but this is not working outand would you be willing to
think about another route orwhatever.
So just having thatconversation, instead of just
denying it and ignoring it, isprobably the healthiest thing to
(34:03):
do.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Nathan has a bit of a story about that.
Right, you didn't know therewas such thing is.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, right now I'm a podcast producer right for the
university and I came from areally small town and never
would I have imagined that aposition like that ever would
have existed, let alone couldhave known that it was something
I was passionate about.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
And good at.
And good at and that you canmake a living at it later on.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, you get into it.
And when you think podcastproducer, you're like, oh, I
guess that's a cool hobby orwhatever.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, it's a profession .
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, you look at the top of the industry and Joe
Rogan just signed a what a 200300 million dollar deal with
Spotify for podcasting.
Yeah, it turns out there is aquite a career in there if you
want to go that direction.
So it's cool, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So belonging does have something to do with
figuring out who you are.
And then, finding your cohortfinding your tribe.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I wanted to talk about belonging and wellness,
kind of the chicken in the eggquestion of like how does
belonging affect your wellnessand then how can your wellness
affect your ability to findbelonging?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of different things that
can impact both ways, but themore that you are comfortable
with yourself, the more that youare able to take care of
yourself, the better you areable to connect with others.
If you're not taking care ofyourself, if you're completely
(35:35):
run down, you can't connect wellwith others because it's too
exhausting.
So being able to take care ofyour wellness and do what you
need to do to take care of thatmakes a big difference in your
ability to reach out to others.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
What do you list on your list of how to take care of
yourself?
What is that going to include?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Everything from, and I think it's individualized some
people.
If you're an extrovert, takingcare of yourself is being around
people.
If you're an introvert, takingcare of yourself is finding some
time alone and private andthings like that being out in
nature, just taking a chance tobreathe, counseling.
(36:15):
For many people, a lot of it'svery individual.
It's also some basic stuff tolike getting enough sleep.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yes eating well, not overindulging in moving when you
said I never really thoughtabout wellness and belonging
connecting as much, but I youcan visualize the word wellness
and the word belonging and youknow how you have those arrows
going this way.
So that's pointing to that andthat's pointing to that, or even
(36:44):
like a circle, and lonelinessand social isolation are
becoming the new epidemic thenew major concern.
It's a major concern, and sohaving those social connections
are so important.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
What I've witnessed with friends, with myself, with.
I don't know if this is new.
I wasn't alive during othergenerations.
I don't know if this is just us, but it certainly is us that it
creates this downward spiral ofyou're not taking care of
yourself, so it's hard to belong, it's hard to have the
confidence to feel like you fitin, it's hard to have the energy
, like you said, and so thenyou're not fitting in, then you
(37:26):
feel like you don't have a place, so it's harder to take care of
yourself.
So what do you say to students,who are people in general, who
are experiencing that downwardspiral?
Speaker 5 (37:36):
That's a good point.
When we did the project, thething that I noticed is, if I'm
trying to sleep more, I'm gonnahave to manage my time more.
I can't just not do homeworkand do it like at midnight and
then get sleep from two to five.
I can't do that.
So everything affectseverything.
(37:58):
And then if I manage, then ifI'm sleeping better, I'm
thinking, wow, maybe I'm ahealthy person, maybe I need to
eat better and I don't want tojust not exercise at all,
because maybe I really am ahealthy person, I need to
exercise too.
Once you start as opposed tothe downward spiral and upward
spiral you start doing one thing.
(38:18):
Good, it really motivates youto do another thing, and that
motivates you to do anotherthing, and so it's just a
logical progression.
So I don't know if anybody'sever realized that or thought
about that more, but that'ssomething I noticed and the
students would say I starteddoing this because I had to do
this so maybe your suggestionwould be to just start with one
(38:40):
thing and let it domino effect,is it?
yeah, try the easiest thing, trywalking.
And then you don't want to eatpoorly because you just exercise
, you don't know.
Cancel that out.
Not that you can't have ahamburger once a week, or
whatever your your guiltypleasure is.
But yeah, start small, startwith the low-hanging fruit, so
(39:00):
to speak.
We have to walk to some degree,unless we're riding, you know
something.
So walking is a good place tostart.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
I would say yeah, I think you know, do that one
thing again.
Depending on how much you'respiraling, counseling might be
that one thing.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I was gonna say ask for help yeah ask for a partner
who walks with you comes youneed more than just to walk.
Absolutely knowing when to askfor help is something I get my
students a list of skills, andone of them you.
We posted them on one of theearlier episodes.
But one of them is knowing whento ask for help, and I think
that is something a lot ofstudents don't know when to do
(39:40):
that.
I want to add somethinginteresting.
When you were using the wordisolation, I was suddenly
thinking about something I teach.
So I teach the romantic period,which was a world in which
everybody lived in the countryand they all farmed and they all
saw each other and also, by theway, it was an Anglican world
where everybody went to theChurch of England pretty much.
And then when the Victorianperiod comes along and they
(40:02):
suddenly shifted over to anindustrial world, an industrial
economy, and people moved to thecities, guess what the biggest
problem was?
Isolation.
People were not you, theydidn't have the same built-in
structures.
And I was thinking about howwe've been moving from whatever
kind of economy we've had abusiness economy, professional
economy we're moving more andmore into a digital economy
(40:25):
which is caring with it its ownload of isolation, and we've
been complaining a lot of theissues right now on COVID, but
actually what COVID did wassimply push us into the digital
world faster.
We were heading there alreadyyeah and so I'm thinking in
terms of just cultural history,yes, so that's true, we are in
(40:48):
our own little rooms.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
I have moved into my daughter's bedroom and I have a
little mini office right therewith the closet and the books
and everything.
But if I have a graduatestudent that lives in Dallas and
she has a question about anassignment, I can say hey, I can
hop on, zoom at three and so Ifeel more connected to her.
And then once a month we havenurse discretion fellowship, a
(41:13):
nurse group, professional group.
We meet with people from Oregonand Delaware.
So from that standpoint it'sincreased.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Our connections, and I was gonna say the same thing,
and where I was going with thiswas just that maybe we wouldn't
shouldn't be quite so doom andgloom about what's happening to
us, that this isn't the end oftime for us, that what we'll
discover is new ways ofconnecting.
I remember the very first yearI was doing online classes.
I had a student in China and astudent in West Germany and
(41:46):
everywhere in between, and weactually it was I mean, it was
online and I required them tomeet with me at that time and
one of them had to get up at 3am to do her class.
But we still know each other.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I another question that I had written down was just
with y'all's experience 31years teaching, of course, all
your experience with thecounseling.
I also wanted to hear y'all'sopinion on where you feel like
belonging should fall on thepriority list for a college
student.
That's one of the struggles,especially just starting out
(42:17):
colleges figuring out, it's timemanagement and it's not only
time management, it'sprioritizing, because there's
just so much going on and youcan't do it all.
So where do you feel likebelonging falls on that list or
should ideally fall?
Speaker 5 (42:32):
I was doing a little research before this and one
article I read said it's numberthree, you know, in Maslow's
hierarchy of needs yeah so it'sup there it is you and three out
of how many?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
five, right, yeah, so it's right.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Smack in the middle it's up there and it needs to be
to me.
Awareness is so huge like wedon't know what we don't know
sure, absolutely so I didn'treally know that much about
podcast producing.
So now I know I'm gonna be alittle bit of a confirmation
bias when I see that out there.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
So just being aware, we all in the university have
awareness of the importance ofbelonging and what, also
something you just mentioned is,besides faculty and staff
reaching out, the students thatalready belong, I hope, will
spend more time reaching out toinclude others, that they don't
have to keep their group closed,that opening up their arms to
(43:29):
others, to the new students, isan important one.
So where are we on this?
What do we have more?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
to say.
I did want to ask and maybethis can be my final question,
but again, what's so special isyou'll have years of experience
and wellness and belonging, aswe've talked there hand-in-hand.
And so I'm just kind of curiousbecause in my own mind I'm
trying to to build out, you know, say we're, we're cooking
(43:55):
belonging.
What are the ingredients to it?
Because the way I'munderstanding walking away from
this conversation is thatbelonging is, is the ingredients
to belonging is just effort andopportunity and effort, effort,
effort, effort is.
Would you agree with that?
Or what else is in the recipeto create belonging?
Speaker 5 (44:18):
I think two things, and they both start with a is.
It is attention and affectionoh you have to be like a person,
you have to like people.
I'm not gonna say love, but youhave to like people and your
actions follow your thought.
I mean, if you act a certainway, you're gonna feel a certain
way.
So if I act kind to you, fakeuntil you make it yeah, I'm
(44:40):
gonna feel kindness towards youand just paying attention.
So I think those are two beingaware, looking for things as
opposed to just being moreintrospective, maybe yeah, yeah,
like that.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Anything you'd like to add to that?
Speaker 4 (44:57):
yeah, I think, coming to that point of realizing that
it's okay to struggle, it'sokay when you have things going
on, that I I just really feelstrongly that there is that
sense of if I realize that thereis some normalcy in this, then
(45:24):
I'm much more likely to one notbeat myself up, but two notice
when others are feeling that aswell.
How I think there's twofold isthe one is how do I belong?
But then the second one is onceyou feel that you belong, how
(45:46):
are you including others?
How are you noticing whensomeone looks like they don't
belong?
How am I bringing that personin to my circle?
So even those who feel I belong, I feel great, I'm confident in
myself.
At that point, what are youdoing to make sure that someone
(46:09):
else has that as well?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
so maybe the two you would add would be self
acceptance, self acceptance andthen inclusivity would you say
yeah, yeah and I think one ofthe messages we want to get
across is that no one is reallyever alone unless they choose to
be, and sometimes, when youchoose to be, you have to.
(46:31):
But that be all belonging atsome level to some group as you
move out of your family is goingto be an important part of your
growth, and we know from thescience and the research that if
you belong and you connect, youjust do better academically
which is ultimately the goal ofall of this is getting through
(46:54):
college and graduating andgetting on with a life, but that
the skills that you develop ofreaching out and finding your
tribe or your cohort or yourbest friend or whoever, those
skills are things that will helpyou when you graduate like we
talked before learning to reachout, learning to ask for help.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
Not waiting until it's dire, but learning to ask
for help early on and justrecognize belonging is a thing.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
It's a thing and it's a thing that's important.
It's a middle of Maslow'sessential needs and it's also
something.
If you learn how to do it,you're gonna be a more
successful human being yes, andto here at the University.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
I mean we have so many resources right for
students and I've had studentsalmost apologetic for accepting
a resource and we're we're here.
Our whole purpose is to be herefor the student and we want you
to reach out.
We want to be a part of yourlife and sometimes it's just
(48:08):
accepting that being okay with.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I can't thank you all enough for spending this time
with us and sharing your wisdomand your attention and your
affection, if you will.
You certainly are models to allof us about how to facilitate
belonging and wellness, andwellness, for sure, and for all
of that ends up adding tograduation.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I think that covers our deep dive on belonging.
If you have any questions, asalways, you can email us at
adrquestions at gmailcom.
Thanks so much for listening.
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