March 28, 2025 • 53 mins
Veterans have some important decisions to make regarding their next steps after military service. Whether it's entering the workforce in a new field, returning to a university, or attending college for the first time, there's lots to navigate during this pivotal transition.
We're here to help.
This week, Dr. Ross and cohost Ashley Worley sit down with two veteran students to unpack the experience of going back to "the civilian world" after serving. Benjamin Broyles, who served six years in the Air Force, and Cody Vasquez, an English major who served four years in the Marine Corps, offer their perspectives on the topic. Besides sharing the resources available to veterans, Benjamin and Cody dive deep into their personal history, passion for learning, and life lessons from the military being applied to higher education. Whether you're an 18-year-old college freshman or a seasoned returning vet, their advice rings true.
Have questions about military life and college? Email us at ADRquestions@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
System's Academy ofDistinguished Teachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
(00:27):
Texas at Tyler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to the second season of Ask Dr Ross with my
new producer, ashley Worley.
We're here today with two ofour students who are veterans,
cody Vasquez and BenjaminBroyles.
We're going to ask you tointroduce yourselves and tell us
a little bit about your servicein our military, so I think
we'll just go ahead and getstarted.
Benjamin has been in longer, sowe'll let you talk first.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My name is Benjamin Broyles.
I served in the United StatesAir Force for almost six years
and I only recently got out, inApril of this year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And tell us just a little bit about where you
served and what sort of jobs youdid.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So I came in open mechanical without really
knowing what job I was going tohave, and I got assigned the job
of an aerial porter.
So to boil it down to a couplewords, I loaded planes with
people, with cargo, withanything that could go on a
plane.
So after graduating basic andtechnical training, my first
duty station was Aviano in Italy.
(01:28):
Spent about two years there,right at the beginning of COVID,
so that was an interestingexperience for sure.
And then a year on a short tourdown in Honduras and I got out
after two years in Yokota, japan.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Six years in the Air Force.
All right, Cody Vasquez, tellus about yourself and your
number of years of service.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
My name is Cody and I served with the United States
Marine Corps for four years.
Most all of my training wasdone in California.
From there I went directly toOkinawa, japan, camp Hanson.
I was there for almost threeyears.
Originally I was supposed to bea field radio operator, but
that all got changed.
The actual contract that I wentand started with was a 0651,
(02:13):
which is all very fancy ways ofjust saying that we did stuff
for computers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Now are you both small town boys.
We'll start with you.
Cody, are you a small town boy?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So I did most of my growing up in Granbury, Texas,
and that was a pretty big place.
We had over 1,000 kids at thehigh school in my class.
Towards the end of my highschool career, right as I was
about to start my senior year,we had to move a bit further
west to a place called Abilene,Texas, which was way, way
smaller.
We were in a place calledMerkle, which is like right
(02:45):
outside of that, and ourgraduating class there was 63
students counting me.
Huge change.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So going from Granbury to Merkle to the US
Marine Corps was that a lot ofculture shock, a lot of change
that you weren't prepared for.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yes and no.
So when I was in Granbury atthe high school there they had a
Marine Corps JROTC program,which is a Junior Reserve
Officer Training Corps program,and so I had a really solid
introduction to the Marine Corpsand the culture and kind of
what it's about.
But also, you know, I was ateenager very inexperienced in
the world and so when I finallydid go and enlist I was not
(03:26):
prepared for a lot of thechanges.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
We'll talk about some of those in a minute.
Let's hear about Benjamin.
How about you, small town boy?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So I grew up right outside of Abilene, texas.
So I always say Abilene becauseyou know it's the biggest town
nearby.
But I actually grew up in aplace called Elm Valley.
It's not a real town oranything like that, it's just
kind of an area out in thecountry.
I was homeschooled my wholelife up until I graduated high
school and then I went on tocollege.
I went to the community collegein Abilene Cisco College and
(03:54):
got my associates there.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
What was the jump from the community college to
the Air Force like?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I always say that you know I don't have a college
experience now.
I don't consider the need forit, because joining the military
at 20, 21, you get the collegeexperience.
You live in dorms, you'resurrounded by people from all
over the place, so it's a verysimilar environment.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
That's interesting.
Would you agree with him thatliving in the military is like a
college experience?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I don't know if I could really compare, because
each branch has its own likeinner culture, that the civilian
world and everybody else theydon't really get to see it or
experience it.
And so, in a sense, yes,because you're all, for the most
part, very young people takingon this brand new path in life
and you're all very closetogether.
Like I said, in the barracks,right, but it's basically dorms,
(04:43):
and so in a way, it's acommunity just like you would
have here at the college dorms.
But at the same time, whatyou're doing there is way
different.
Now that we're here, right,talking to people who went
straight from high school intocollege, way, way different than
talking to people that weserved with, who were our age at
that time.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Tell me what are some of those big differences.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Humor is a big one.
Yeah, dark humor is prettyperpetual throughout the
military.
And when we were in themilitary, at least for me,
everything was very natural.
It was very easy to talk topeople and, like, find a common
ground and build somecamaraderie, even if they're
total strangers.
Right, and I think it wasbecause we had the unifying
background of oh, we've enlistedor, you know, we're in the
(05:38):
military now, but you know, outhere in the civilian world, a
total stranger is a totalstranger.
It's hit or miss whether you'regoing to have something in
common with them that's reallytrue.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Has this been your experience too, benjamin?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
oh, absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, especially, you were kindof in one spot, right.
You stayed in okinawa the wholetime, but I jumped around a lot
and it was just me moving.
So I got to go assimilate witha new environment and a new
group of people.
But it's always fairly easy todo so because, especially if you
have the same career field, andthen you find out very quickly
(06:11):
how small the world is in termsof, oh, you know this person, oh
, I know that person, you know,I worked with them here, I
worked with them there, I wentto tech school with them.
So there's always an immediatecommon ground.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, you know, I'm an army brat and I had the same
experience.
I went to 12 different schoolsbefore I graduated from high
school and as long as I was in aschool on an army base where
everybody else was military kids, we instantly had that in
common and we also knew we hadto make friends fast because we
didn't know how long we'd bethere, and I found that that
(06:43):
actually helped me a lot lateron when I got out, as you say,
in the civilian world, in that Iknew how to start to make
friends.
But I also agree with youthere's a coolness that's
different.
So you started out withcommunity college.
You had that in mind, but thenyou went straight into the Air
Force, you went straight intothe Marine Corps.
(07:04):
So did you anticipate evergoing to college before you got
into the Marine Corps?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
It wasn't necessarily so cut and dry.
When I graduated high school,the situation that we were in.
I felt obligated to stay andenter the workforce so that I
could help out my parentsbecause we had a lot going on at
the time.
I worked at a small grocerystore that opened and closed
like five times.
While I was there my wholething was just buying groceries
or paying for the electric billor the water bill whenever I
(07:31):
could and that sort of thing.
I did want to go to college butit didn't seem like a reality.
But I also wanted to serve inthe military, especially the
Marine Corps.
I was all about that.
It was a big dream of mine.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And you'd been in that junior ROTC for a while, so
you already had some idea.
Was that in the high school inGranbury?
Is that how you found out aboutit?
Mm-hmm.
So they reached out to you as ayoung man, like in ninth or
tenth grade.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, ninth grade.
Well, actually they did apresentation for us in the
middle school that I was at inGranbury.
The instructors for the programcame down and they explained
what it is and what it's about,and ever since then I wanted to
enlist, but once I graduated Iwas of the mind I'll have time
for that stuff later.
And then, before I even knew it, two years had gone by.
(08:17):
It wasn't until a buddy of minethat I met in Merkle came over
to my house one day and he saidhey, I'm about to go train up at
the recruiting office becausehe wanted to be a Marine as well
.
And he said you can come withme and you can sit down.
You don't have to sign anypapers or anything.
I said let's go.
So I went there, met therecruiters and I'll tell you, if
it hadn't been for him, Iprobably would still be there.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, I owe that guy literally my whole life, and
from what you've told me, themilitary, the Marine Corps, was
a whole new vista for you.
It taught you all sorts ofthings.
I mean, you grew up, you saidyou got challenged.
You said Also, though it seemsas though you realized how much
more you could do.
You want to talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Sure, I mean, you know, like I said, my concerns
were very immediate right out ofhigh school, and so the rest of
the world was kind of a closedoyster.
But then you get into themilitary and you know, like
Benjamin said, the world isreally small but your impact can
be as big as you want to makeit Right.
And this idea that even in thesmall actions in your day-to-day
(09:24):
they can have a profound impacton the world and the situation
around you.
And so, being a part of thatexperience, you know, realizing
it's not just me and the rest ofthe world right, I'm a part of
this thing.
Right, I'm a cause for effectsyeah, that really opened my eyes
.
And so it took me a very longtime to sort of absorb and
synthesize that rightconsciously, because you know,
(09:47):
when you're in you're reallyjust worried about today and the
next day.
But once I got out I knew thatjust doing like a day-to-day,
like that job I had at thegrocery store, that wasn't going
to be something that I could doand be satisfied with.
I knew I needed to reallyinvest myself and see what I was
capable of achieving and, youknow, causing in the world.
(10:07):
Right, because I didn't want tojust be part of the landscape.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So the Marine Corps really was a way out for you and
a way on up.
How about you, Benjamin?
What moved you from thecommunity college instead of on
to the four-year college, youwent on to the Air Force.
What was that reasoning?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So I started out in the industrial technology side
of the community college.
They had several courses andcertificates you could get in
terms of HVAC and similar,because I've always been more of
a manual labor person.
I was intelligent enough to getby.
I wasn't stupid, but I liked touse my hands and I thought I
could use my body in a positiveway.
(10:45):
So I ended up getting at myassociates in automotive
technology because I thoughtcars were interesting.
It was a big puzzle you got tofigure out and after I graduated
with that I realized, oh, thisis essentially worthless.
You can only start out at thebottom in most mechanical areas.
The idea of making $7.25 anhour working at a Jiffy Lube did
not appeal to me at all.
(11:05):
So that last semester, as I wasgoing through, I was like what
can I do better?
I had many men in the churchfamily who were military
considering Dias Air Force Baseis out there in Abilene that I
took inspiration from anddecided to go ahead and go
through with it.
(11:25):
It was one of the fastestdecisions I'd ever made.
Honestly, you know, looking atyour options like, if I don't
like this, I've signed afour-year contract, I get out
and go to school for free.
You know, no harm, no foul.
If I do like it, I get toretire in 20 years.
There's a lot of optionsavailable there, so that was the
route I ended up going.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So the recruiters talk a pretty good game, it
sounds like.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Oh, they're smooth with it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It might have been for you, but in Abilene, with
the Air Force recruiter there,they barely have to go outside
and look.
People come strolling intotheir office constantly.
I think partially because thebase was there and people knew
people who were in and everybodythat was in a different branch
that you would talk to would belike oh, if you're going to
Drongo Air Force, you know thequality of life is considered to
(12:11):
be significantly better.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Oh man way better.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Way better.
Oh boy, Well, we'll have tohear about why is it so way
better?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Well, at a base level .
It's that there's certainrequirements set by the
higher-ups in the Air Force thatare very, very different, like
I stayed in hotels when I had togo on trips, work trips.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
As opposed to what Barracks Tents, tents oh.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, which isn't to say that everybody in the Air
Force had that, but it wassignificantly better in that way
.
You know, as an E3 with a yearin, I get to move off base into
an apartment all by myself.
That's very different.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, pretty much.
If you're not married, you'rein the barracks and you've got
at least one roommate all theway up until E5 sergeant's level
.
But most people would just ifthey couldn't find a way to hack
it in the barracks life, thenthey would just get married.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Oh, how terrible.
What a terrible reason to getmarried, huh.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
People kept telling them, but it still happens.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, so you were only in for four years, and that
was your contract.
And then you were in for four,and then you stayed on for two
more years.
What was happening here to makeyou think, hey, I might go to a
four-year college, cody.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
As Benjamin mentioned , you know you sign your
contract and after the firstfour years if you don't enjoy it
, then you can leave right andit's no harm, no foul, as long
as you serve honorably.
We've talked about this before.
I became pretty disillusionedwith the reality of military
life, but I don't necessarilythink that it was just oh, the
military is awful and I don'twant to do this anymore.
(13:49):
I think I was a bit young andnaive for it.
I think that contributed a lot,but I decided it wasn't for me
anymore and I decided that therewas other stuff that I could do
that would be more productive,more effective, more valuable.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
When did you find out about what a deal it was?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
as far as the military helping to pay for your
university.
Oh, we know right away.
That's one of the main sellingpoints that recruiters use is
like do you want to get paid togo to school or do you want to
take a $100,000 loan?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Why don't you spell out for the audience just
there's the Hazelwood Act,there's also the GI Bill,
there's also tuition assistance.
When you're inside, you want tokind of briefly tell us a
little bit about how all thatworks, because you know there
are a lot of folks around herewho don't have that kind of
support for their education.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Sure, well, so I'm using the Hazelwood Act, which
is for Texans only, right, yes.
And then I'm using Chapter 31,which is pretty much the same
thing as the GI Bill.
There's a lot of technicalterminology and it all kind of
amounts to the same thing, whichis you get paid to go to school
, right, it's just a differenceof how the finances get executed
(15:07):
.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Now do they pay tuition and room and board, or
is it just tuition?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Well, the tuition on all options is taken care of,
but as far as room and boardgoes, there's something called a
BAH I think it stands for BaseAllowance for Housing but that's
like a stipend or a monetaryaward that you get and that's
supposed to help you offset yourcosts for books, traveling, for
classes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Is that after you leave or during the time when
you're in the military?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
That's all after you leave.
Yeah, while you're in, it'smainly tuition assistance that
people use, usually in concertwith, like, the FAFSA.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Do you have time when you're in the military to go to
college?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It really depends.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It depends on you as a person what you're looking for
, because I know a lot of peoplethat knew about the tuition
assistance and their goal wasI'm going to do four years and
I'm going to get my bachelor'swhile I'm in, but you have to be
signed off on the ability touse a tuition assistant.
So depending on how you'reperforming at work can directly
affect that.
So if you're lacking because ofyou know you're taking too many
(16:12):
classes, then it could become aproblem.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, and just speaking as a professor, I find
that when students have too manythings going on in their lives,
it's harder for them to do thekind of in-depth work I'd like
to have them be doing.
So for you.
You stayed on for two moreyears.
You were still thinking youmight stick it out.
Is that the idea?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, so I got injured after about a year of
being in.
It wasn't anything more relatedor anything, it was something
stupid.
But I hurt my knee pretty badand then dealing with that
during COVID and getting surgeryon that.
It took about two years to getto a point where I could walk
normally again.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Were you getting good medical care through the
military?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Oh yeah, that's a, that's a deep.
That's a tough question toanswer.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
It's one of those common threads that everybody in
the military deals with as faras, like, medical care, complain
about it a lot.
Well, it's not even reallycomplaints, it's just the
experiences that people have.
You know, I don't know how itwas for you, but I also injured
my knee and for a month theysaid, oh, you just sprained it.
Here's some crutches, so someMotrin water, change your socks.
(17:20):
That's a big joke.
But yeah, for a month I didn'tget better.
In fact I got worse.
It got to the point where, like,I was getting so stiff that I
couldn't even flex my knee atall.
And they finally sent me in for, uh, an MRI, I think.
And they figured out, oh, he'storn his medial meniscus, which
is that tendon that runs downalong the inside of your knee.
But yeah, it took them a monthto realize that.
(17:40):
And then when I spoke to aphysical therapist or the
physician, he said, listen,because you've had this injury
for so long and we're just nowgoing to get you into surgery to
get it fixed.
You could be looking at earlyonset arthritis in this knee as
early as 30, which I'll be 28this month.
But yeah, medical care in themilitary is kind of a hot button
(18:02):
issue.
People talk about it all thetime.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Inside of the continental United States it can
be a little bit better.
But when you're overseas andyour only option is what you got
, you know you've got oneorthopedic doctor, you've got
one physical therapist, you know.
So you don't get multiplechoices, you don't get to figure
it out.
You get told this is what it is.
So, especially at like 21, 22,I don't know anything about
(18:27):
going to the doctor.
I've never been to the doctorbefore in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And probably when you did it was with your mom and
dad, right, yeah, sure, Iunderstand that completely.
So both of you then found youhad really good benefits to get
to college and you decided to goahead.
You got a little disillusioned.
You'd gotten injured, you'd hadsome time, so why'd you pick UT
(18:51):
Tyler?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah, it's funny, I did a few college tours before I
came here.
I went and did a tour at WestBaptist University, west Texas,
a&m, and one more that I can'tremember the name of right now.
But when I came here there wasa few factors.
First of all, campus isprobably the most beautiful one
that I've been to in all thesetours, so I really like the
(19:14):
location and just what they havegoing on here.
But also I've got one friendwho lives probably two and a
half three hours just over theborder into Louisiana and I
served with him when I was inJapan.
And I've got a couple otherfriends.
Once they get retired and movedback to the States, this is the
area they'll be coming back to.
So probably in the next coupleyears I'll have a nice little
(19:35):
network of people that I'veserved with already.
But also I did a suit camp here, which is the freshman
orientation, and that reallysealed the deal for me, the
students here and the facultyand the kind of kind of the
culture that they had within thecampus.
It seemed very conducive to thekinds of things that I wanted
to do.
You know, I want to be part ofa strong, healthy community.
I want to lead.
(19:56):
I want to teach others how tolead.
All this good stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
In fact, one of the things I do want to talk with
both of you about is yourleadership training and how
that's factored into your dailyexperience with the younger
students here.
But let's hear before we getback to that.
What about you?
Why'd you pick UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I was tired of Abilene.
I've seen a lot of what thatarea has to offer.
Just as a benefit of beinghomeschooled, I got to explore
that county and that area verywell and Abilene is the biggest
city until you get to like FortWorth, you know.
So I grew up there, you know 21years there and then did my
tours and I was trying to decidewhat to do and I've got friends
who live in Longview that I'vebeen friends with since I was an
(20:33):
early teenager from church campand I've never had a chance to
live nearby them and we'vemaintained our friendship for
this entire period and they'vebeen very good to me and I
wanted to live nearby them andI'm about five hours away from
home so I can go back and see myfamily.
That was really the kicker, ifI'm being honest.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Well, you know, but the common thread here is that
both of you had friends, so youknew you wouldn't be completely
alone, although in some ways,going off to college is kind of
about getting away, although youhad already gotten away for six
years in your case, benjamin,and four in yours, so the Swoop
Camp worked for you In your case.
You just showed up one day, Iguess, huh.
(21:13):
So what are you majoring in,benjamin?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I'm switching it up because I started out with the
idea of going computer scienceand doing something in that
realm because I really didn'tknow what I was going to do.
I still don't know what I wantto be when I grow up.
Is what I say.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And you know what that's.
Part of what the collegeexperience is about is helping
you figure out that, and sodon't be ashamed of it.
Lots of folks, including I, hadthree different majors before I
got finished with college.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, so I'm switching to the accelerated BAS
of business occupations,because I came in with
80-something credit hoursalready.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Which is, if it's a 120-something hour program, then
you're more than halfway past,aren't you?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Correct.
Yes, so the idea is now to goahead and just knock out this
bachelor's as a stepping stone,and I'll still have GI Bill left
, so then I can go on to amaster's of something in today's
world that's almost moreeffective than a bachelor's
right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And one of the things that we're learning, too, is
just about what AI is doing tosort of change so much of the
work picture.
I guess that one of the mostimportant things we're talking
about right now that people aregoing to need is what we call
soft skills critical thinking,communication, ethical thinking,
logical thinking, managinghuman words and human situations
(22:30):
and I would imagine that themilitary helped you with some of
that too just things that hadto do with just getting along
with the world and making gooddecisions.
So you're not sure about amajor yet, but you're kind of
thinking about it, and now Iknow what your major is, cody.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
You know I've always been a very heavy reader and
very interested in the Englishsubject.
You know a lot of my Englishteachers growing up left very
good impressions on me and soit's always kind of been the
field that I've felt mostcomfortable in most natural kind
of connection with therelationships with other people
right and the networking withthe community.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, and literature is about humans, isn't it?
It's stories.
It's stories about the waypeople do stuff with each other,
or against each other, or foreach other.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's what all of life is about is
just people telling each otherstories, right, and the degree
to which you can do thateffectively greatly alters the
degree to which you experiencethe world.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know, I have students who have been nurses,
for example, who likedliterature, and I said why don't
you minor in English and seewhat you think?
And they come back and say youknow, dr Ross, we learned how to
see details in a way that wehaven't.
In fact, one of my students whojust today, she said I'm doing
better in my other classesbecause of English, I said tell
me about it.
(23:50):
She said well, I know what tolook for better and I know how
to ask better questions.
I'm going yes, yes, yes, butnow, cody, you want to do
English for a specific reason,don't you?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, I'm going to be a high school English teacher
here in Texas.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Tell us about that.
What made you want to be that?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Well again, you know, my English teachers were just
phenomenal, and I think it's thesingle occupation where I'll be
the most effective and the mostvaluable that I possibly can be
.
The reason I even took aninterest in being a teacher,
though, is, well, number one.
There's been a lot of talk,especially over like the last
five, 10 years here in Texas atleast, there's been a kind of a
sharp decline right In thegeneral quality of education and
(24:32):
the effectiveness.
You know, I was just talking toone of the guys in my art class
, my art history class.
He said that the majority ofhis graduating class, which just
graduated three, four monthsago, he said the majority of
them cannot read, or at leastnot at a 12th grade level.
He said they read like middleschoolers.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well, you know, there's an article in Atlantic
right now I think it's Atlanticabout how high school students
can't read novels and theyhaven't been being trained to do
it, partly because they're longbut also because you can't test
as well.
And it's a very interestingarticle about just how few
classes now in high schools willteach a whole novel, much less
(25:12):
two or three.
They'll do highlighted passagesand they'll sort of frame it.
People's attention spans havegotten shorter and shorter and
they just can't do it and it'sreally troubling.
Of course it's music to my earsto hear you say that you had
some good English teachers andthat made you want in some ways
to emulate them.
But it's even more music to myears to hear you say that you
want to teach kids.
(25:32):
You know, because it's notalways been the most popular of
options.
And yet right now, of all thethings I can think of to do, it
seems to me like it may be oneof the most important, because
you're not just about feedingyourself or advancing your own
personal finances or whatever.
You're going to be givensomething back your training in
(26:03):
the military.
Talk about how you think theleadership training you've
gotten there is going to affectyour classroom behavior.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This is kind of a major theme that I've noticed is
that people don't really learnif it's too easy, like if
somebody just holds their handout long enough.
Eventually, whatever it is thatthey want or need is going to
be handed to them.
If you make it to wheresomething is difficult but
doable or possible and you showyoung people that not only could
they do something that'sdifficult, they should right,
(26:34):
because the more you do that,the easier it becomes to do
difficult things.
And you can apply this to everyconcept of life, right, not
just English and the languagearts, but math, mechanics,
technology, talking with people,forming relationships,
self-discipline, maturity,spirituality all of this stuff.
It'll never be done right nowand in some cases, like
(26:56):
self-discipline, right, you cannever master that.
The valuable portion is thatprocess.
We talked about metacognition,right, which is thinking about
the way that you think, and ifyou can refine and improve your
ability to just think and tograsp knowledge, you get
compounding returns.
It's one of those parabolasthat goes straight up.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, you know, I remember the first time I had
some experience like that inhigh school.
I don't want to at all cut downmy four different high schools,
but I remember the first timein a freshman English class I
was actually a pre-med majororiginally and I just remember
reading a poem and seeing howmuch more was in it than I
thought and I thought it wasjust as a little, you know, just
(27:39):
words on a page.
And then I saw there were theseideas and these connections to
other words on other pages andthat they were about feelings
that I'd had and that I hadn'talways understood and it just
pinged.
It opened something.
That moment when you realize,oh, there's so much to learn in
(27:59):
college.
Loving learning is the key.
And I worry, I must say youknow that one of my biggest
concerns about some of mystudents is some of them don't
seem to care about learning much.
They're just kind of here goingthrough the motions and getting
a credential to get on, to makesome money.
And you know, I could tell whenyou were in my class, even the
very first week or two, that youreally cared about learning.
(28:22):
And I'm not trying to leave youout of this conversation at all
, benjamin, but something firedyou up to want to learn, and one
of the things that I'm curiousabout is what it was.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Oh, I mean, it's kind of just that general.
You know very deep knowledgethat life is very short, very
precious.
The time that you have isconstantly bleeding away from
you, right?
And there's this kind ofillusory belief that young
people have that like, oh, I gottime for that later on, right,
but now, now is the time, hereis the place.
(28:56):
The future is not real the sameway that now is real.
The person that you're going tobe is not the kind of real that
the person you are right now is.
The choices that you make nowwill define the person that you
become.
That's how it works.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And if you're not in the moment, you're not making
the best decisions you can make.
Either are you.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Well, you're not even really making decisions, you're
letting the world happen to you.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, flowing along, yeah.
So, Benjamin, what about you?
When you started taking collegeclasses here, did it fire up
something for you, or soundslike you were just kind of ready
to get out?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I'm still working on what I want to do.
I don't have that defined goal,which I've seen in a lot of my
friends and peers, as well asthe ability to lock in on
something and be like this iswhat I'm going to do.
You know, I've got a buddywho's got an unmanned aerial
services degree.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Like is that drones?
Okay, drones.
I was going to say uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And he locked in on that and went through with it
and that's his passion andthat's what he loves.
And it's fascinating to see,because I don't have I've never
had that.
I've explored a lot of optionsand been like, what can I do?
And again I always thought Iwas suited for manual labor.
So I was like I can try andfigure something else out, but
we're still trying to.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
But obviously you're in college and you're doing well
enough to still be doing morethan just manual labor, right?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yes, yeah, I mean I have to because I am broken in a
lot of ways.
These are things that I can'tdo anymore.
You know, I'm 27.
I'm not married, I don't havekids, but my goal is to be a
father and a husband and I wantto be able to get on the ground
and play with my children.
I'm already struggling to dothat.
So, you know, it's like let'sease up a little bit and use
this muscle up here instead ofyou know the other ones.
(30:34):
So we move forward and see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Well, let me ask you this so you did your community
college years, and usually thoseare the ones that are sort of
the survey classes.
You have a little bit ofEnglish, a little bit of history
, a little bit of politicalscience, a little bit of math, a
little bit of all the differentthings, and the idea of that is
the core curriculum is to giveyou a sense of what's out there
so that you can pick and you canfigure it out.
That didn't apparently nothingclarified yet for you.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Is that correct?
I can't say there's anything inparticular.
I have a little bit of interestin everything I say.
I always been ajack-of-all-trades where I put
80 80 towards something andusually that's enough, right, so
I can be decent at a lot ofthings and that's kind of how
it's always been.
There's nothing that piques myinterest to the point that I
want to get involved and stay init.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Now, when you were homeschooled, though, were there
things that you did, that yousaid something about, how you
spent a lot of time exploringthe countryside around Abilene.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time outside.
My other form of entertainmentwas always books.
I spent hours.
I would go to the library andcome back with 15 every week.
So I read a lot, but writingdidn't really appeal to me.
I think I'm pretty good atwriting.
I think it's the best way Ihave to express myself is
through my writing, but I don'thave an interest in making that
(31:52):
a.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, and you know what, it's damn hard and you
know I've just finishedpublishing a book and it is a
lot of work.
Even though I'm an Englishprofessor, I don't always enjoy
the writing process.
It's a lot of work, it's hardwork, but I think that one of
the things we understand veryclearly is that writing is a way
of thinking and that it's notso much the final product we're
(32:14):
worried about, so much as theprocess of getting to the final
product Thinking through yourideas.
You don't really know what youknow until you start putting it
on paper and seeing if it makessense and realizing, oh, it
doesn't make sense, but I thinkI can make it make sense.
And reading to a peer and doingdrafts and things like that.
So what we know right now isthat writing is increasingly
going to be an important part ofthe work business because,
(32:38):
although AI is going to do a lotof it for us, ai is going to be
writing like a machine and wegot to be better than the
machine.
So writing is going to beimportant.
But in terms of how yourclasses are going, how long have
you been at UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
This is my first semester.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
So you're just now starting to get a sense of it.
You've been here for a year anda half now, cody, haven't you?
This is my third semester,third semester, so how's it
going?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Surprisingly well.
I'm doing a lot better than Ithought I would.
As far as like grades and justbeing on top of things.
There's been like the naturalchallenges just trying to
schedule time management andfinancials, things like this.
It's all been kind of anadjustment period for definitely
the first semester and thenthrough the second semester as
well, but now it's sort ofgotten to the point where you
know that stuff is pretty simplenot necessarily easy, but
(33:24):
pretty simple to deal with.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
There's just a lot of hoops you've got to jump
through, aren't there?
You know, getting your major,getting your minor, getting the
right number of hours doing allthis sort of stuff, huh, what
else?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
When you first start the process there's a whole lot
of red tape and administrativestuff to get through, but lot of
red tape and administrativestuff to get through.
But in subsequent semesters,especially for things like
financial aid and this sort ofstuff, it almost gets to a point
where it's automated, likethere's still stuff that you
have to do, but it's not as badas it was in the beginning.
But now it's just reallyknuckling down and getting deep
into the material that we'restudying and things like this.
(33:57):
I just registered for my nextsemester's classes and we've
talked a little bit about howthere's still core requirements
for universities, which I'm nota fan of, but I mean it is what
it is.
As far as the rest of it goes,I'm having a pretty good time
and I think over the course ofmy next two and a half semesters
it's probably only going to getbetter here.
In the beginning it's been therequired classes and the very
(34:20):
intro-level stuff, but I thinkonce I start getting into the
more complex and the moreinvolved material and stuff,
Well, by this coming semesteryou should be ready to start
taking your heavy-duty Englishmajor classes, right?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So you'll take the introduction to the major, which
is the 3308 course, and thenyou get to take American or
British or earlier Shakespeare.
We have technical writingclasses as well, and digital
things, Things that, whileyou're going to be a high school
English teacher, you alwayswant to be thinking about what
it is that you might have to becalled upon to teach.
But also, the other thing toois just learning from your
(34:56):
teachers about how they teach.
You know, I always tell my newcolleagues teach the way your
favorite professor taught andavoid at all costs the way your
least favorite professor taught.
You know, remember what annoyedthe heck out of you and don't
ever do that.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
That was a common theme when it came to leadership
in the military.
You know, hey, pay attention toyour sergeants.
You don't like and don't belike them, don't do what they
did.
And that's probably the mostuseful piece of advice that you
get as you progress through islike hey, don't get mad at
people for the drop of a hat,give some grace and be patient,
especially knowing that theseare kids that are coming in out
(35:36):
of high school.
I'm sure that's similar forprofessors.
These are kids coming out ofhigh school.
They've got a lot of life tolive.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Similar for professors.
These are kids coming out ofhigh school.
They've got a lot of life tolive.
Yeah, so you've just nowfinished what about 10, 11 weeks
of class for the first time andyou're 27 years old?
How does it feel to be a27-year-old college junior?
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Oh, it's interesting, it's difficult getting back
into study mode because I testedfor the Air Force at least.
You test for every rank thatyou come up after E4.
And so I had to take thosetests and that was a certain
type of studying I had to do.
It was very particular and youknow, hey, you're going into a
multiple-choice test with 150questions on it.
So that was that particulartype of studying and now I've
got to get back into.
No, I have to actually thinkthis through.
I don't just need to have theknowledge, I need to understand
(36:26):
the concepts, which has alwaysbeen difficult for me.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I like to be able to apply.
It gets better.
You get practicing doing it.
But you're right, If it's justthe first time in a long time
and you're used to just learningsome facts and laying them down
, this is a different level ofcognitive exercise.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
That's why I'm excited to get to that point in
my college career where I'mgetting to that master's,
because I feel like that is ain-depth, more technical in
terms of you need to fullyunderstand the concept.
So right now I'm still takingcore classes, you know, and I
can get by pretty good withoutdoing too much work, right.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, the other thing , too, is that you know how to
get the job done.
You know how to get the readingdone.
You know you're probably moredisciplined than a lot of your
classmates.
Have you noticed that already?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, to some extent.
But this is something that Codyand I have talked about is the
stress is different, becausewhen you're in the military it's
manufactured, is what I call itmanufactured stress.
These deadlines are fake, youknow, and it gets shorter every
level it comes down.
So you know you get asked to dosomething by tomorrow.
The person above the personthat asked you wants it done by
(37:30):
the end of the week, and then soon and so forth.
So every time you have adeadline it's not actually due
and most of the time there's notmuch consequence for missing
that deadline because there'sstill so much time.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So you're saying that deadlines are stricter in
college than they are in themilitary?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Yeah, because it's a personal deadline.
You're the only one responsible.
So it's like hey, I understandwhat this deadline is and if
your professor can give you somegrace, if you're having other
deadlines to meet as well, youknow, I can talk to you as a
person.
When you're being commanded todo something at the risk of
being punished for not doing it,then you get.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
oh you know, definitely a different
experience In the Marine Corps.
We had the 15 prior conceptright, which is where any time
that you had to be somewhere ordoing something, you had to show
up 15 minutes prior to thebeginning of whatever that was.
But that 15 prior applies atevery link of the chain.
(38:26):
So you've got your platooncommander, he tells the staff in
COIC, staff in charge, he'slike, hey, I want this done by
this time.
And he says good to go, sir,we'll have it done at least 15
minutes prior to that.
And then he tells the nextperson down and so on and so
forth.
And by the time it gets towhere I was at the E3, e4 level
Lance Corporals and Corporalsyou're doing things days or
(38:50):
weeks in advance and it's notnecessarily because they need to
be done like that, but it'sbecause the order has been
passed through so many channelsand it is kind of like a
redundancy to make sure toaccount for unforeseen obstacles
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
But at the same time, it shows that you have no trust
in those below you, which wasthe toughest part for me,
because I was good at my job.
I knew what I was doing.
So give me that extra time andbe on the same level with me.
Let's talk, you know, person toperson.
You're not having to tell meexactly what to do.
I'm pretty good at this.
Let me do my job.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So do you feel like you're being allowed to do your
job now here at UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, and it all depends on me.
I'm not relying on anybody elseto get something done.
I don't, besides, like groupprojects, which has been
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, group projects.
That's always a problem becausewe don't assign them properly.
We ought to design a better wayto create group projects,
because I do think that when youlearn how to work in a team
which I'm sure is what youlearned how to do in the
military it's an important setof skills and increasingly we
see, when employers come to usto tell us what it is they want
from us, they say teamwork isright there at the top, and
(40:01):
that's the single thing I thinkmost high school and college
students especially hate.
So what about the social lifein college?
Is it what you expected?
(40:22):
Is it different?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I don't participate much.
I'd rather go home and do somehomework as opposed to
especially driving to Longview.
It's a 45-minute drive.
I've got other stuff and I'vegot other priorities, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What are some of those priorities?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Like I said, my friends are out there in
Longview.
They're some of my closestfriends and they had a little
girl fairly recently and I amUnky Ben and I'm having fun
being Unky Ben and watching hergrow and getting comfortable
with the new church family,contributing there to the best
of my ability and maintainingcontact with other friends,
(40:57):
because now you know, my friendsare scattered across the globe.
You know I got friends inGermany and Salt Lake Georgia.
You know my friends arescattered across the globe.
You know I've got friends inGermany and Salt Lake Georgia.
You know, all over the place.
So I'd like to maintain thoserelationships.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I think you will.
I think you will and I thinkhaving the college degree is
going to help you moving forward.
However, you end up decidingwhat you want to be when you
grow up.
It will give you more mobilitythan you think and in the
meantime, it's great that youhave friends around A lot of
really good.
What about you, Cody?
Speaker 4 (41:26):
It's way different.
I'm 27 now.
I'll be 28 this month.
Most of my classmates andpeople around me are between the
ages of 17 and 20.
They haven't necessarily hadthe time to experience the world
the way that I have, and soit's kind of hard to find common
ground in that respect.
Like outside of our classestogether, these kids are talking
(41:47):
about TikTok.
They're talking about pop starsand celebrities and shows that
they're watching.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, and I have a stepson who went back to
college but he had the samefeeling.
He went back, he was 24 and hefelt old.
And in all the years I've beenhere, the students who come back
come back because they want tobe here.
It's a choice, it's not just,oh, I'm supposed to do this,
it's kind of the role of thingsand my parents want me to and
da-da, and you all do so muchbetter, so much better.
(42:24):
You get your work done on time,you ask good questions, you can
see when people are being silly, you recognize stuff.
And I just love it when I haveolder students because I know I
can count on you and I thinkcertainly in the classes you've
been in well, I guess you'veonly been in one class with me,
cody, but you're a standard thatthey had to measure themselves
to.
But you also were very graciouswith them.
You didn't talk down to them.
You all have an opportunity tobe leaders in these classes.
(42:47):
You were that.
I mean, you were just naturallythat, or maybe you'd learned
how to be that way in themilitary and maybe it's because
you want to be a teacher already.
You kind of got that kind ofvibe going.
But one of the things I alwayswant to say to anybody whether
you're a veteran or someoneolder who wants to come back to
college don't be afraid to be alittle older.
It actually gives you a greatadvantage.
(43:08):
When I went back to grad school, I went back when I was 40.
I talk about really old rightand I had the same feeling.
This was a PhD program.
I had students, you know theywere 32 and I was 40.
It felt like miles apart ofexperience.
My main people that I liked andam now good, close friends with
are my professors, and I wouldencourage you to be close to
(43:29):
your faculty because I know thatwe like you guys a lot and want
you all to know how much wevalue you.
If there are vets out therethat think about coming to
college, what's some adviceyou'd give them about what to
expect, what to do, what not todo?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
For sure, for sure, for sure.
Go to the Veterans ServicesOffice and get your VA stuff in
order.
Even if you get assigned a 0%disability rating, right, it's
still a rating and if anythingcomes up later on down the line,
that'll be a much smootherprocess if you do that first
Right, and doing that will kindof prime you for the process of
(44:07):
doing your administration stuff,your financial aid stuff,
especially when you get to theVSO, the Veteran Services Office
.
You do, you know, claims andstuff through them, and wherever
you go there's probably a spacesomewhere on the campus that's
specially designated forveterans, like here.
We have the Military VeteranSuccess Center.
(44:28):
That was where I met some of thefirst friends that I made here
in Tyler and they're fantastic.
So yeah, definitely do the VAstuff, regardless of how much
you like or dislike the VA.
Find other veterans at yourcampus.
You don't have to be very goodbuddy-buddy with them, but just
understand that they're outthere and they're doing the same
thing that you're doing.
So at some point you're goingto have to reach out to somebody
(44:50):
and go.
Hey, I just need to decompressand talk about the things I'm
going through.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, it's a stressful thing, even if you're
17 or 18.
And I think sometimes peoplewho are older think that maybe
they're supposed to handle itbetter.
But it's a different set ofstressors, isn't it?
What about you?
Best advice to guys that arecoming back or women who are
coming back?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
It's not as hard as you think it is.
I think there's a certain likeoh, this is a real school, you
know and I have had to, you know, change my manner of speaking
in a lot of ways.
But in terms of the classes,you know, this is not some scary
person at the front of the room.
You can go talk to theprofessor, you can have a
conversation with them.
If you're going throughsomething and you need a little
(45:35):
leniency, a lot of them will belike yeah, we can work together
on this, but you're just dealingwith people that have no,
they're not an authority figurein the way that we're used to
seeing authority figures.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Ashley, I want you to chime in here.
What are some of the thoughtsyou've had as you've listened to
these gentlemen talk abouttheir experience.
You want to tell them a littlebit about you, who you are and
what you've been doing.
Speaker 5 (45:58):
Sure.
First off, thank you for yourservice.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Thank you for your support.
Sure First off.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
Thank you for your service, thank you for your
support.
I'm interested to hear whatkind of advice you might have
for people who are just cominginto college 18, 19.
I'm 19 now and I'm majoring inmass communications, and are
there things that you've learnedthat you would go back and tell
(46:22):
your younger?
Speaker 4 (46:23):
self or that you would tell another young person
at this point in your life Forme it would definitely be
there's going to be otherparties.
You don't need to go to everysingle party you hear about.
You don't need to be doing awhole lot of this
extracurricular stuff.
Really, it's making peace withthe fact that your time for
messing around and not takingyourself seriously that time has
kind of passed right, becausenow your decisions aren't
(46:45):
necessarily confined to a highschool or to your social group.
Now you're an active agent inthe world right, and, like we
talked about earlier, it's up toyou to define how effective
you're going to be.
So I'm not saying that you gotto give 110% every single second
of every single day, but youknow, take it seriously.
(47:05):
You are a person that is worthinvesting your time in.
Jordan Peterson talks a lotabout you have to think about
yourself as if you were a personthat you're responsible for
taking care of.
When you get the things thatyou have to get done
accomplished right, you're goingto find time for these other
things, and it'll make it morespecial If you're at the end of
a long week and you dideverything you were supposed to
(47:27):
do, all the homework's done, youknow, and you've got a little
bit of time, hit up a friend andbe like hey, you know, I've got
a couple hours to kill.
Do you want to go see a movie?
You want to get some food, andit'll be that much more
important to you, and then thatwill help drive you through the
next week, and so on and soforth.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
You build up momentum .
That way you don't knoweverything.
You really don't.
You know next to nothing.
In fact, it feels like you'velived a lot of life at that
point, which from yourperspective, you have.
But listen to other people,observe other people.
Observe not just like yourprofessors, but observe the
older people in your class andsee how they're acting and how
they react to things and take itseriously.
They've lived some life,they've got some other
(48:11):
experiences under their belt,and then go out and find some
experiences of your own.
It doesn't have to be thegeneric, you know teen, movie,
college experience.
You don't need to go out and goto parties and whatnot, but go
find things that interest youand take some people along, and
that way you'll build realfriendships with these people,
not superficial friendships.
(48:32):
I believe in the importance ofhaving a solid core group of
friends, of people that yousurround yourself with, and pay
attention to the impact theyhave on you and the impact you
have on them, and have thatcircle of influence and focus on
those people and what you cando for them.
and be, honest, just be honest.
If you're struggling, tellsomebody you're struggling.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
But you know one of the things that I observe as a
professor and we'll start towrap it up here but this is not
a fully residential universitywhere people come in as freshmen
and stay four years and thenleave, and increasingly that's
the way a lot of people are.
They come in with a number ofhours already.
Sometimes they come in fromhaving done an associate's
degree elsewhere, and so theymay only be here two years, and
(49:16):
if they don't use this time here, if they don't make friends
here, it's harder.
This is one of the best timesto make friends, and yet I see a
lot of times students kind ofcome to their class and leave,
come in their class and leave.
They spend their time in thehalls looking at their phones
instead of talking to the realhumans around them.
But having a group of friendsis really important, isn't it?
(49:38):
Yeah, as you get olderespecially, you'll discover that
old friends are some of thebest friends.
You know they really are.
As Ashley said, I'm reallygrateful for your service.
(49:59):
I'm really also grateful thatyou came and let us talk to you
and pick your brains here, andis there anything that you want
to add that you thought?
Oh, I wish they'd say this.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It just occurred to me, we didn't talk about the
resources available to veteransa lot outside of school.
The Texas Veteran Commissionwebsite is a fantastic resource
that has a bunch of paths youcan go down to see.
If you're someone looking toget back into school or if
you're not gonna go back toschool, there's other
opportunities out there VR&E,which can help you find a job
(50:28):
that fits you if you're injured.
There's Vet Tech, which canhelp you get a training in the
trades.
If you're not interested ingoing to a four-year school and
getting a degree, there's otheropportunities out there besides
just going to college.
Everybody talks about going tocollege like it's the only one,
but there's a lot and you knowyou reach out if you're
(50:49):
struggling.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
Oh yeah, that's probably the number one thing is
to reach out.
It's kind of directly enforcedat least when you're in is like
there's no real reason to tryand take a step back.
A lot of people don't like togo to medical because going to
medical kind of sends a messagethat you're not trying as hard
as everybody else or you're notas committed as everybody else,
(51:11):
which is complete nonsense.
Even though it persists.
There's no way you can do it byyourself.
It's not possible.
And even if you think you arehim or that guy or that girl who
can do it all by himself, Iunderstand you had somebody who
raised you, you had people whotaught you how to speak, how to
do numbers.
All these things Rely on that.
(51:31):
You know, hone that skill ofreaching out and making those
connections, especially forveterans.
Even if you don't really wantto use those resources and go
into school or a trade oranything like that, just get
involved.
Those resources and going toschool or a trade or anything
like that, just get involved.
One of the most valuable thingsfor me personally is just to
know that there's value in myservice, and not just for the
military but in the community.
The day-to-day stuff you know.
(51:52):
Find somewhere where you canhave a task that you can commit
yourself to and really give it agenuine full effort, because
that will show you, regardlessof the details and whatever else
is going on, there's stillthings you can do.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
You're still valuable , especially to yourself yeah,
and what y'all are doing rightnow is you're building on top of
a really firm foundation ofhaving learned a lot in the
military.
You're adding new skills,you're adding new ways of
thinking, deeper kind of thought.
But I think you're right thathaving something to give to the
community whether it's in yourchurch or your family, friends,
(52:30):
your profession as a teacher ora doctor or a lawyer, where
you're giving services to others, it's enormously fulfilling.
It's funny at my point in mycareer I still get great joy in
knowing that today I helpedNatalie get her stuff together.
Today I got to encourageso-and-so.
Today I got to make sure thatso-and-so made it to class on
(52:55):
time and got his work done.
Whatever it is, you end upfinding out what you want to do
when you finally grow up at 49or 59.
Make sure you're doingsomething for other people.
I think, from what you've saidalready, that you've already got
that in your head, and I knowyou do too.
Cody, thank you for doing itfor us today.
It was very interesting to bothof us.
You've really made my week andI want to thank you both for
(53:16):
being here.
I'm glad to get to know you.
Maybe you need to come take anEnglish class with me.
Maybe we'll teach you how muchyou love literature, or get you
to practice how much you alreadylove literature, and, in the
meantime, have a great weekend,you guys.
So well, that was prettyinteresting.
I enjoyed that.
I guess that's a wrap, ashley.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
Yes ma'am, this has been the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningin with us today, and if you
have questions about collegelife or any of the topics that
we were talking about today,please send us your questions to
ADRquestions at gmailcom.
We'd love to hear from you.
In the meanwhile, we'll see youin the next episode.
Thank you very much.
This is Ashley Wertlich signingoff.
Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
It's created to give you infoto succeed at college.
Our hosts are highly qualified.
Dr Catherine Ross is a memberof the University of Texas
System's Academy ofDistinguished Teachers.
She's also a popular professorof 19th century English
literature.
Ask Dr Ross is a communityservice of the University of
(00:27):
Texas at Tyler.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to the second season of Ask Dr Ross with my
new producer, ashley Worley.
We're here today with two ofour students who are veterans,
cody Vasquez and BenjaminBroyles.
We're going to ask you tointroduce yourselves and tell us
a little bit about your servicein our military, so I think
we'll just go ahead and getstarted.
Benjamin has been in longer, sowe'll let you talk first.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My name is Benjamin Broyles.
I served in the United StatesAir Force for almost six years
and I only recently got out, inApril of this year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And tell us just a little bit about where you
served and what sort of jobs youdid.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
So I came in open mechanical without really
knowing what job I was going tohave, and I got assigned the job
of an aerial porter.
So to boil it down to a couplewords, I loaded planes with
people, with cargo, withanything that could go on a
plane.
So after graduating basic andtechnical training, my first
duty station was Aviano in Italy.
(01:28):
Spent about two years there,right at the beginning of COVID,
so that was an interestingexperience for sure.
And then a year on a short tourdown in Honduras and I got out
after two years in Yokota, japan.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Six years in the Air Force.
All right, Cody Vasquez, tellus about yourself and your
number of years of service.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
My name is Cody and I served with the United States
Marine Corps for four years.
Most all of my training wasdone in California.
From there I went directly toOkinawa, japan, camp Hanson.
I was there for almost threeyears.
Originally I was supposed to bea field radio operator, but
that all got changed.
The actual contract that I wentand started with was a 0651,
(02:13):
which is all very fancy ways ofjust saying that we did stuff
for computers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Now are you both small town boys.
We'll start with you.
Cody, are you a small town boy?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So I did most of my growing up in Granbury, Texas,
and that was a pretty big place.
We had over 1,000 kids at thehigh school in my class.
Towards the end of my highschool career, right as I was
about to start my senior year,we had to move a bit further
west to a place called Abilene,Texas, which was way, way
smaller.
We were in a place calledMerkle, which is like right
(02:45):
outside of that, and ourgraduating class there was 63
students counting me.
Huge change.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
So going from Granbury to Merkle to the US
Marine Corps was that a lot ofculture shock, a lot of change
that you weren't prepared for.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Yes and no.
So when I was in Granbury atthe high school there they had a
Marine Corps JROTC program,which is a Junior Reserve
Officer Training Corps program,and so I had a really solid
introduction to the Marine Corpsand the culture and kind of
what it's about.
But also, you know, I was ateenager very inexperienced in
the world and so when I finallydid go and enlist I was not
(03:26):
prepared for a lot of thechanges.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
We'll talk about some of those in a minute.
Let's hear about Benjamin.
How about you, small town boy?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So I grew up right outside of Abilene, texas.
So I always say Abilene becauseyou know it's the biggest town
nearby.
But I actually grew up in aplace called Elm Valley.
It's not a real town oranything like that, it's just
kind of an area out in thecountry.
I was homeschooled my wholelife up until I graduated high
school and then I went on tocollege.
I went to the community collegein Abilene Cisco College and
(03:54):
got my associates there.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
What was the jump from the community college to
the Air Force like?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I always say that you know I don't have a college
experience now.
I don't consider the need forit, because joining the military
at 20, 21, you get the collegeexperience.
You live in dorms, you'resurrounded by people from all
over the place, so it's a verysimilar environment.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
That's interesting.
Would you agree with him thatliving in the military is like a
college experience?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I don't know if I could really compare, because
each branch has its own likeinner culture, that the civilian
world and everybody else theydon't really get to see it or
experience it.
And so, in a sense, yes,because you're all, for the most
part, very young people takingon this brand new path in life
and you're all very closetogether.
Like I said, in the barracks,right, but it's basically dorms,
(04:43):
and so in a way, it's acommunity just like you would
have here at the college dorms.
But at the same time, whatyou're doing there is way
different.
Now that we're here, right,talking to people who went
straight from high school intocollege, way, way different than
talking to people that weserved with, who were our age at
that time.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Tell me what are some of those big differences.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Humor is a big one.
Yeah, dark humor is prettyperpetual throughout the
military.
And when we were in themilitary, at least for me,
everything was very natural.
It was very easy to talk topeople and, like, find a common
ground and build somecamaraderie, even if they're
total strangers.
Right, and I think it wasbecause we had the unifying
background of oh, we've enlistedor, you know, we're in the
(05:38):
military now, but you know, outhere in the civilian world, a
total stranger is a totalstranger.
It's hit or miss whether you'regoing to have something in
common with them that's reallytrue.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Has this been your experience too, benjamin?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
oh, absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, especially, you were kindof in one spot, right.
You stayed in okinawa the wholetime, but I jumped around a lot
and it was just me moving.
So I got to go assimilate witha new environment and a new
group of people.
But it's always fairly easy todo so because, especially if you
have the same career field, andthen you find out very quickly
(06:11):
how small the world is in termsof, oh, you know this person, oh
, I know that person, you know,I worked with them here, I
worked with them there, I wentto tech school with them.
So there's always an immediatecommon ground.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, you know, I'm an army brat and I had the same
experience.
I went to 12 different schoolsbefore I graduated from high
school and as long as I was in aschool on an army base where
everybody else was military kids, we instantly had that in
common and we also knew we hadto make friends fast because we
didn't know how long we'd bethere, and I found that that
(06:43):
actually helped me a lot lateron when I got out, as you say,
in the civilian world, in that Iknew how to start to make
friends.
But I also agree with youthere's a coolness that's
different.
So you started out withcommunity college.
You had that in mind, but thenyou went straight into the Air
Force, you went straight intothe Marine Corps.
(07:04):
So did you anticipate evergoing to college before you got
into the Marine Corps?
Speaker 4 (07:09):
It wasn't necessarily so cut and dry.
When I graduated high school,the situation that we were in.
I felt obligated to stay andenter the workforce so that I
could help out my parentsbecause we had a lot going on at
the time.
I worked at a small grocerystore that opened and closed
like five times.
While I was there my wholething was just buying groceries
or paying for the electric billor the water bill whenever I
(07:31):
could and that sort of thing.
I did want to go to college butit didn't seem like a reality.
But I also wanted to serve inthe military, especially the
Marine Corps.
I was all about that.
It was a big dream of mine.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And you'd been in that junior ROTC for a while, so
you already had some idea.
Was that in the high school inGranbury?
Is that how you found out aboutit?
Mm-hmm.
So they reached out to you as ayoung man, like in ninth or
tenth grade.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, ninth grade.
Well, actually they did apresentation for us in the
middle school that I was at inGranbury.
The instructors for the programcame down and they explained
what it is and what it's about,and ever since then I wanted to
enlist, but once I graduated Iwas of the mind I'll have time
for that stuff later.
And then, before I even knew it, two years had gone by.
(08:17):
It wasn't until a buddy of minethat I met in Merkle came over
to my house one day and he saidhey, I'm about to go train up at
the recruiting office becausehe wanted to be a Marine as well
.
And he said you can come withme and you can sit down.
You don't have to sign anypapers or anything.
I said let's go.
So I went there, met therecruiters and I'll tell you, if
it hadn't been for him, Iprobably would still be there.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, I owe that guy literally my whole life, and
from what you've told me, themilitary, the Marine Corps, was
a whole new vista for you.
It taught you all sorts ofthings.
I mean, you grew up, you saidyou got challenged.
You said Also, though it seemsas though you realized how much
more you could do.
You want to talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Sure, I mean, you know, like I said, my concerns
were very immediate right out ofhigh school, and so the rest of
the world was kind of a closedoyster.
But then you get into themilitary and you know, like
Benjamin said, the world isreally small but your impact can
be as big as you want to makeit Right.
And this idea that even in thesmall actions in your day-to-day
(09:24):
they can have a profound impacton the world and the situation
around you.
And so, being a part of thatexperience, you know, realizing
it's not just me and the rest ofthe world right, I'm a part of
this thing.
Right, I'm a cause for effectsyeah, that really opened my eyes
.
And so it took me a very longtime to sort of absorb and
synthesize that rightconsciously, because you know,
(09:47):
when you're in you're reallyjust worried about today and the
next day.
But once I got out I knew thatjust doing like a day-to-day,
like that job I had at thegrocery store, that wasn't going
to be something that I could doand be satisfied with.
I knew I needed to reallyinvest myself and see what I was
capable of achieving and, youknow, causing in the world.
(10:07):
Right, because I didn't want tojust be part of the landscape.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So the Marine Corps really was a way out for you and
a way on up.
How about you, Benjamin?
What moved you from thecommunity college instead of on
to the four-year college, youwent on to the Air Force.
What was that reasoning?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So I started out in the industrial technology side
of the community college.
They had several courses andcertificates you could get in
terms of HVAC and similar,because I've always been more of
a manual labor person.
I was intelligent enough to getby.
I wasn't stupid, but I liked touse my hands and I thought I
could use my body in a positiveway.
(10:45):
So I ended up getting at myassociates in automotive
technology because I thoughtcars were interesting.
It was a big puzzle you got tofigure out and after I graduated
with that I realized, oh, thisis essentially worthless.
You can only start out at thebottom in most mechanical areas.
The idea of making $7.25 anhour working at a Jiffy Lube did
not appeal to me at all.
(11:05):
So that last semester, as I wasgoing through, I was like what
can I do better?
I had many men in the churchfamily who were military
considering Dias Air Force Baseis out there in Abilene that I
took inspiration from anddecided to go ahead and go
through with it.
(11:25):
It was one of the fastestdecisions I'd ever made.
Honestly, you know, looking atyour options like, if I don't
like this, I've signed afour-year contract, I get out
and go to school for free.
You know, no harm, no foul.
If I do like it, I get toretire in 20 years.
There's a lot of optionsavailable there, so that was the
route I ended up going.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So the recruiters talk a pretty good game, it
sounds like.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Oh, they're smooth with it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
It might have been for you, but in Abilene, with
the Air Force recruiter there,they barely have to go outside
and look.
People come strolling intotheir office constantly.
I think partially because thebase was there and people knew
people who were in and everybodythat was in a different branch
that you would talk to would belike oh, if you're going to
Drongo Air Force, you know thequality of life is considered to
(12:11):
be significantly better.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Oh man way better.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Way better.
Oh boy, Well, we'll have tohear about why is it so way
better?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Well, at a base level .
It's that there's certainrequirements set by the
higher-ups in the Air Force thatare very, very different, like
I stayed in hotels when I had togo on trips, work trips.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
As opposed to what Barracks Tents, tents oh.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, which isn't to say that everybody in the Air
Force had that, but it wassignificantly better in that way
.
You know, as an E3 with a yearin, I get to move off base into
an apartment all by myself.
That's very different.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yeah, pretty much.
If you're not married, you'rein the barracks and you've got
at least one roommate all theway up until E5 sergeant's level
.
But most people would just ifthey couldn't find a way to hack
it in the barracks life, thenthey would just get married.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Oh, how terrible.
What a terrible reason to getmarried, huh.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
People kept telling them, but it still happens.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, so you were only in for four years, and that
was your contract.
And then you were in for four,and then you stayed on for two
more years.
What was happening here to makeyou think, hey, I might go to a
four-year college, cody.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
As Benjamin mentioned , you know you sign your
contract and after the firstfour years if you don't enjoy it
, then you can leave right andit's no harm, no foul, as long
as you serve honorably.
We've talked about this before.
I became pretty disillusionedwith the reality of military
life, but I don't necessarilythink that it was just oh, the
military is awful and I don'twant to do this anymore.
(13:49):
I think I was a bit young andnaive for it.
I think that contributed a lot,but I decided it wasn't for me
anymore and I decided that therewas other stuff that I could do
that would be more productive,more effective, more valuable.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
When did you find out about what a deal it was?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
as far as the military helping to pay for your
university.
Oh, we know right away.
That's one of the main sellingpoints that recruiters use is
like do you want to get paid togo to school or do you want to
take a $100,000 loan?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Why don't you spell out for the audience just
there's the Hazelwood Act,there's also the GI Bill,
there's also tuition assistance.
When you're inside, you want tokind of briefly tell us a
little bit about how all thatworks, because you know there
are a lot of folks around herewho don't have that kind of
support for their education.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Sure, well, so I'm using the Hazelwood Act, which
is for Texans only, right, yes.
And then I'm using Chapter 31,which is pretty much the same
thing as the GI Bill.
There's a lot of technicalterminology and it all kind of
amounts to the same thing, whichis you get paid to go to school
, right, it's just a differenceof how the finances get executed
(15:07):
.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Now do they pay tuition and room and board, or
is it just tuition?
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Well, the tuition on all options is taken care of,
but as far as room and boardgoes, there's something called a
BAH I think it stands for BaseAllowance for Housing but that's
like a stipend or a monetaryaward that you get and that's
supposed to help you offset yourcosts for books, traveling, for
classes.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Is that after you leave or during the time when
you're in the military?
Speaker 4 (15:37):
That's all after you leave.
Yeah, while you're in, it'smainly tuition assistance that
people use, usually in concertwith, like, the FAFSA.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Do you have time when you're in the military to go to
college?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
It really depends.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It depends on you as a person what you're looking for
, because I know a lot of peoplethat knew about the tuition
assistance and their goal wasI'm going to do four years and
I'm going to get my bachelor'swhile I'm in, but you have to be
signed off on the ability touse a tuition assistant.
So depending on how you'reperforming at work can directly
affect that.
So if you're lacking because ofyou know you're taking too many
(16:12):
classes, then it could become aproblem.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, and just speaking as a professor, I find
that when students have too manythings going on in their lives,
it's harder for them to do thekind of in-depth work I'd like
to have them be doing.
So for you.
You stayed on for two moreyears.
You were still thinking youmight stick it out.
Is that the idea?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Well, so I got injured after about a year of
being in.
It wasn't anything more relatedor anything, it was something
stupid.
But I hurt my knee pretty badand then dealing with that
during COVID and getting surgeryon that.
It took about two years to getto a point where I could walk
normally again.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Were you getting good medical care through the
military?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Oh yeah, that's a, that's a deep.
That's a tough question toanswer.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
It's one of those common threads that everybody in
the military deals with as faras, like, medical care, complain
about it a lot.
Well, it's not even reallycomplaints, it's just the
experiences that people have.
You know, I don't know how itwas for you, but I also injured
my knee and for a month theysaid, oh, you just sprained it.
Here's some crutches, so someMotrin water, change your socks.
(17:20):
That's a big joke.
But yeah, for a month I didn'tget better.
In fact I got worse.
It got to the point where, like,I was getting so stiff that I
couldn't even flex my knee atall.
And they finally sent me in for, uh, an MRI, I think.
And they figured out, oh, he'storn his medial meniscus, which
is that tendon that runs downalong the inside of your knee.
But yeah, it took them a monthto realize that.
(17:40):
And then when I spoke to aphysical therapist or the
physician, he said, listen,because you've had this injury
for so long and we're just nowgoing to get you into surgery to
get it fixed.
You could be looking at earlyonset arthritis in this knee as
early as 30, which I'll be 28this month.
But yeah, medical care in themilitary is kind of a hot button
(18:02):
issue.
People talk about it all thetime.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Inside of the continental United States it can
be a little bit better.
But when you're overseas andyour only option is what you got
, you know you've got oneorthopedic doctor, you've got
one physical therapist, you know.
So you don't get multiplechoices, you don't get to figure
it out.
You get told this is what it is.
So, especially at like 21, 22,I don't know anything about
(18:27):
going to the doctor.
I've never been to the doctorbefore in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And probably when you did it was with your mom and
dad, right, yeah, sure, Iunderstand that completely.
So both of you then found youhad really good benefits to get
to college and you decided to goahead.
You got a little disillusioned.
You'd gotten injured, you'd hadsome time, so why'd you pick UT
(18:51):
Tyler?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah, it's funny, I did a few college tours before I
came here.
I went and did a tour at WestBaptist University, west Texas,
a&m, and one more that I can'tremember the name of right now.
But when I came here there wasa few factors.
First of all, campus isprobably the most beautiful one
that I've been to in all thesetours, so I really like the
(19:14):
location and just what they havegoing on here.
But also I've got one friendwho lives probably two and a
half three hours just over theborder into Louisiana and I
served with him when I was inJapan.
And I've got a couple otherfriends.
Once they get retired and movedback to the States, this is the
area they'll be coming back to.
So probably in the next coupleyears I'll have a nice little
(19:35):
network of people that I'veserved with already.
But also I did a suit camp here, which is the freshman
orientation, and that reallysealed the deal for me, the
students here and the facultyand the kind of kind of the
culture that they had within thecampus.
It seemed very conducive to thekinds of things that I wanted
to do.
You know, I want to be part ofa strong, healthy community.
I want to lead.
(19:56):
I want to teach others how tolead.
All this good stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
In fact, one of the things I do want to talk with
both of you about is yourleadership training and how
that's factored into your dailyexperience with the younger
students here.
But let's hear before we getback to that.
What about you?
Why'd you pick UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I was tired of Abilene.
I've seen a lot of what thatarea has to offer.
Just as a benefit of beinghomeschooled, I got to explore
that county and that area verywell and Abilene is the biggest
city until you get to like FortWorth, you know.
So I grew up there, you know 21years there and then did my
tours and I was trying to decidewhat to do and I've got friends
who live in Longview that I'vebeen friends with since I was an
(20:33):
early teenager from church campand I've never had a chance to
live nearby them and we'vemaintained our friendship for
this entire period and they'vebeen very good to me and I
wanted to live nearby them andI'm about five hours away from
home so I can go back and see myfamily.
That was really the kicker, ifI'm being honest.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Well, you know, but the common thread here is that
both of you had friends, so youknew you wouldn't be completely
alone, although in some ways,going off to college is kind of
about getting away, although youhad already gotten away for six
years in your case, benjamin,and four in yours, so the Swoop
Camp worked for you In your case.
You just showed up one day, Iguess, huh.
(21:13):
So what are you majoring in,benjamin?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I'm switching it up because I started out with the
idea of going computer scienceand doing something in that
realm because I really didn'tknow what I was going to do.
I still don't know what I wantto be when I grow up.
Is what I say.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And you know what that's.
Part of what the collegeexperience is about is helping
you figure out that, and sodon't be ashamed of it.
Lots of folks, including I, hadthree different majors before I
got finished with college.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, so I'm switching to the accelerated BAS
of business occupations,because I came in with
80-something credit hoursalready.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Which is, if it's a 120-something hour program, then
you're more than halfway past,aren't you?
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Correct.
Yes, so the idea is now to goahead and just knock out this
bachelor's as a stepping stone,and I'll still have GI Bill left
, so then I can go on to amaster's of something in today's
world that's almost moreeffective than a bachelor's
right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And one of the things that we're learning, too, is
just about what AI is doing tosort of change so much of the
work picture.
I guess that one of the mostimportant things we're talking
about right now that people aregoing to need is what we call
soft skills critical thinking,communication, ethical thinking,
logical thinking, managinghuman words and human situations
(22:30):
and I would imagine that themilitary helped you with some of
that too just things that hadto do with just getting along
with the world and making gooddecisions.
So you're not sure about amajor yet, but you're kind of
thinking about it, and now Iknow what your major is, cody.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
You know I've always been a very heavy reader and
very interested in the Englishsubject.
You know a lot of my Englishteachers growing up left very
good impressions on me and soit's always kind of been the
field that I've felt mostcomfortable in most natural kind
of connection with therelationships with other people
right and the networking withthe community.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, and literature is about humans, isn't it?
It's stories.
It's stories about the waypeople do stuff with each other,
or against each other, or foreach other.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's what all of life is about is
just people telling each otherstories, right, and the degree
to which you can do thateffectively greatly alters the
degree to which you experiencethe world.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know, I have students who have been nurses,
for example, who likedliterature, and I said why don't
you minor in English and seewhat you think?
And they come back and say youknow, dr Ross, we learned how to
see details in a way that wehaven't.
In fact, one of my students whojust today, she said I'm doing
better in my other classesbecause of English, I said tell
me about it.
(23:50):
She said well, I know what tolook for better and I know how
to ask better questions.
I'm going yes, yes, yes, butnow, cody, you want to do
English for a specific reason,don't you?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, I'm going to be a high school English teacher
here in Texas.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Tell us about that.
What made you want to be that?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Well again, you know, my English teachers were just
phenomenal, and I think it's thesingle occupation where I'll be
the most effective and the mostvaluable that I possibly can be
.
The reason I even took aninterest in being a teacher,
though, is, well, number one.
There's been a lot of talk,especially over like the last
five, 10 years here in Texas atleast, there's been a kind of a
sharp decline right In thegeneral quality of education and
(24:32):
the effectiveness.
You know, I was just talking toone of the guys in my art class
, my art history class.
He said that the majority ofhis graduating class, which just
graduated three, four monthsago, he said the majority of
them cannot read, or at leastnot at a 12th grade level.
He said they read like middleschoolers.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well, you know, there's an article in Atlantic
right now I think it's Atlanticabout how high school students
can't read novels and theyhaven't been being trained to do
it, partly because they're longbut also because you can't test
as well.
And it's a very interestingarticle about just how few
classes now in high schools willteach a whole novel, much less
(25:12):
two or three.
They'll do highlighted passagesand they'll sort of frame it.
People's attention spans havegotten shorter and shorter and
they just can't do it and it'sreally troubling.
Of course it's music to my earsto hear you say that you had
some good English teachers andthat made you want in some ways
to emulate them.
But it's even more music to myears to hear you say that you
want to teach kids.
(25:32):
You know, because it's notalways been the most popular of
options.
And yet right now, of all thethings I can think of to do, it
seems to me like it may be oneof the most important, because
you're not just about feedingyourself or advancing your own
personal finances or whatever.
You're going to be givensomething back your training in
(26:03):
the military.
Talk about how you think theleadership training you've
gotten there is going to affectyour classroom behavior.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
This is kind of a major theme that I've noticed is
that people don't really learnif it's too easy, like if
somebody just holds their handout long enough.
Eventually, whatever it is thatthey want or need is going to
be handed to them.
If you make it to wheresomething is difficult but
doable or possible and you showyoung people that not only could
they do something that'sdifficult, they should right,
(26:34):
because the more you do that,the easier it becomes to do
difficult things.
And you can apply this to everyconcept of life, right, not
just English and the languagearts, but math, mechanics,
technology, talking with people,forming relationships,
self-discipline, maturity,spirituality all of this stuff.
It'll never be done right nowand in some cases, like
(26:56):
self-discipline, right, you cannever master that.
The valuable portion is thatprocess.
We talked about metacognition,right, which is thinking about
the way that you think, and ifyou can refine and improve your
ability to just think and tograsp knowledge, you get
compounding returns.
It's one of those parabolasthat goes straight up.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, you know, I remember the first time I had
some experience like that inhigh school.
I don't want to at all cut downmy four different high schools,
but I remember the first timein a freshman English class I
was actually a pre-med majororiginally and I just remember
reading a poem and seeing howmuch more was in it than I
thought and I thought it wasjust as a little, you know, just
(27:39):
words on a page.
And then I saw there were theseideas and these connections to
other words on other pages andthat they were about feelings
that I'd had and that I hadn'talways understood and it just
pinged.
It opened something.
That moment when you realize,oh, there's so much to learn in
(27:59):
college.
Loving learning is the key.
And I worry, I must say youknow that one of my biggest
concerns about some of mystudents is some of them don't
seem to care about learning much.
They're just kind of here goingthrough the motions and getting
a credential to get on, to makesome money.
And you know, I could tell whenyou were in my class, even the
very first week or two, that youreally cared about learning.
(28:22):
And I'm not trying to leave youout of this conversation at all
, benjamin, but something firedyou up to want to learn, and one
of the things that I'm curiousabout is what it was.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
Oh, I mean, it's kind of just that general.
You know very deep knowledgethat life is very short, very
precious.
The time that you have isconstantly bleeding away from
you, right?
And there's this kind ofillusory belief that young
people have that like, oh, I gottime for that later on, right,
but now, now is the time, hereis the place.
(28:56):
The future is not real the sameway that now is real.
The person that you're going tobe is not the kind of real that
the person you are right now is.
The choices that you make nowwill define the person that you
become.
That's how it works.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And if you're not in the moment, you're not making
the best decisions you can make.
Either are you.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Well, you're not even really making decisions, you're
letting the world happen to you.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, flowing along, yeah.
So, Benjamin, what about you?
When you started taking collegeclasses here, did it fire up
something for you, or soundslike you were just kind of ready
to get out?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, I'm still working on what I want to do.
I don't have that defined goal,which I've seen in a lot of my
friends and peers, as well asthe ability to lock in on
something and be like this iswhat I'm going to do.
You know, I've got a buddywho's got an unmanned aerial
services degree.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Like is that drones?
Okay, drones.
I was going to say uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And he locked in on that and went through with it
and that's his passion andthat's what he loves.
And it's fascinating to see,because I don't have I've never
had that.
I've explored a lot of optionsand been like, what can I do?
And again I always thought Iwas suited for manual labor.
So I was like I can try andfigure something else out, but
we're still trying to.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
But obviously you're in college and you're doing well
enough to still be doing morethan just manual labor, right?
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yes, yeah, I mean I have to because I am broken in a
lot of ways.
These are things that I can'tdo anymore.
You know, I'm 27.
I'm not married, I don't havekids, but my goal is to be a
father and a husband and I wantto be able to get on the ground
and play with my children.
I'm already struggling to dothat.
So, you know, it's like let'sease up a little bit and use
this muscle up here instead ofyou know the other ones.
(30:34):
So we move forward and see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Well, let me ask you this so you did your community
college years, and usually thoseare the ones that are sort of
the survey classes.
You have a little bit ofEnglish, a little bit of history
, a little bit of politicalscience, a little bit of math, a
little bit of all the differentthings, and the idea of that is
the core curriculum is to giveyou a sense of what's out there
so that you can pick and you canfigure it out.
That didn't apparently nothingclarified yet for you.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Is that correct?
I can't say there's anything inparticular.
I have a little bit of interestin everything I say.
I always been ajack-of-all-trades where I put
80 80 towards something andusually that's enough, right, so
I can be decent at a lot ofthings and that's kind of how
it's always been.
There's nothing that piques myinterest to the point that I
want to get involved and stay init.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Now, when you were homeschooled, though, were there
things that you did, that yousaid something about, how you
spent a lot of time exploringthe countryside around Abilene.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time outside.
My other form of entertainmentwas always books.
I spent hours.
I would go to the library andcome back with 15 every week.
So I read a lot, but writingdidn't really appeal to me.
I think I'm pretty good atwriting.
I think it's the best way Ihave to express myself is
through my writing, but I don'thave an interest in making that
(31:52):
a.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Well, and you know what, it's damn hard and you
know I've just finishedpublishing a book and it is a
lot of work.
Even though I'm an Englishprofessor, I don't always enjoy
the writing process.
It's a lot of work, it's hardwork, but I think that one of
the things we understand veryclearly is that writing is a way
of thinking and that it's notso much the final product we're
(32:14):
worried about, so much as theprocess of getting to the final
product Thinking through yourideas.
You don't really know what youknow until you start putting it
on paper and seeing if it makessense and realizing, oh, it
doesn't make sense, but I thinkI can make it make sense.
And reading to a peer and doingdrafts and things like that.
So what we know right now isthat writing is increasingly
going to be an important part ofthe work business because,
(32:38):
although AI is going to do a lotof it for us, ai is going to be
writing like a machine and wegot to be better than the
machine.
So writing is going to beimportant.
But in terms of how yourclasses are going, how long have
you been at UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
This is my first semester.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
So you're just now starting to get a sense of it.
You've been here for a year anda half now, cody, haven't you?
This is my third semester,third semester, so how's it
going?
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Surprisingly well.
I'm doing a lot better than Ithought I would.
As far as like grades and justbeing on top of things.
There's been like the naturalchallenges just trying to
schedule time management andfinancials, things like this.
It's all been kind of anadjustment period for definitely
the first semester and thenthrough the second semester as
well, but now it's sort ofgotten to the point where you
know that stuff is pretty simplenot necessarily easy, but
(33:24):
pretty simple to deal with.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
There's just a lot of hoops you've got to jump
through, aren't there?
You know, getting your major,getting your minor, getting the
right number of hours doing allthis sort of stuff, huh, what
else?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
When you first start the process there's a whole lot
of red tape and administrativestuff to get through, but lot of
red tape and administrativestuff to get through.
But in subsequent semesters,especially for things like
financial aid and this sort ofstuff, it almost gets to a point
where it's automated, likethere's still stuff that you
have to do, but it's not as badas it was in the beginning.
But now it's just reallyknuckling down and getting deep
into the material that we'restudying and things like this.
(33:57):
I just registered for my nextsemester's classes and we've
talked a little bit about howthere's still core requirements
for universities, which I'm nota fan of, but I mean it is what
it is.
As far as the rest of it goes,I'm having a pretty good time
and I think over the course ofmy next two and a half semesters
it's probably only going to getbetter here.
In the beginning it's been therequired classes and the very
(34:20):
intro-level stuff, but I thinkonce I start getting into the
more complex and the moreinvolved material and stuff,
Well, by this coming semesteryou should be ready to start
taking your heavy-duty Englishmajor classes, right?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So you'll take the introduction to the major, which
is the 3308 course, and thenyou get to take American or
British or earlier Shakespeare.
We have technical writingclasses as well, and digital
things, Things that, whileyou're going to be a high school
English teacher, you alwayswant to be thinking about what
it is that you might have to becalled upon to teach.
But also, the other thing toois just learning from your
(34:56):
teachers about how they teach.
You know, I always tell my newcolleagues teach the way your
favorite professor taught andavoid at all costs the way your
least favorite professor taught.
You know, remember what annoyedthe heck out of you and don't
ever do that.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
That was a common theme when it came to leadership
in the military.
You know, hey, pay attention toyour sergeants.
You don't like and don't belike them, don't do what they
did.
And that's probably the mostuseful piece of advice that you
get as you progress through islike hey, don't get mad at
people for the drop of a hat,give some grace and be patient,
especially knowing that theseare kids that are coming in out
(35:36):
of high school.
I'm sure that's similar forprofessors.
These are kids coming out ofhigh school.
They've got a lot of life tolive.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Similar for professors.
These are kids coming out ofhigh school.
They've got a lot of life tolive.
Yeah, so you've just nowfinished what about 10, 11 weeks
of class for the first time andyou're 27 years old?
How does it feel to be a27-year-old college junior?
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Oh, it's interesting, it's difficult getting back
into study mode because I testedfor the Air Force at least.
You test for every rank thatyou come up after E4.
And so I had to take thosetests and that was a certain
type of studying I had to do.
It was very particular and youknow, hey, you're going into a
multiple-choice test with 150questions on it.
So that was that particulartype of studying and now I've
got to get back into.
No, I have to actually thinkthis through.
I don't just need to have theknowledge, I need to understand
(36:26):
the concepts, which has alwaysbeen difficult for me.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I like to be able to apply.
It gets better.
You get practicing doing it.
But you're right, If it's justthe first time in a long time
and you're used to just learningsome facts and laying them down
, this is a different level ofcognitive exercise.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
That's why I'm excited to get to that point in
my college career where I'mgetting to that master's,
because I feel like that is ain-depth, more technical in
terms of you need to fullyunderstand the concept.
So right now I'm still takingcore classes, you know, and I
can get by pretty good withoutdoing too much work, right.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, the other thing , too, is that you know how to
get the job done.
You know how to get the readingdone.
You know you're probably moredisciplined than a lot of your
classmates.
Have you noticed that already?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, to some extent.
But this is something that Codyand I have talked about is the
stress is different, becausewhen you're in the military it's
manufactured, is what I call itmanufactured stress.
These deadlines are fake, youknow, and it gets shorter every
level it comes down.
So you know you get asked to dosomething by tomorrow.
The person above the personthat asked you wants it done by
(37:30):
the end of the week, and then soon and so forth.
So every time you have adeadline it's not actually due
and most of the time there's notmuch consequence for missing
that deadline because there'sstill so much time.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So you're saying that deadlines are stricter in
college than they are in themilitary?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Yeah, because it's a personal deadline.
You're the only one responsible.
So it's like hey, I understandwhat this deadline is and if
your professor can give you somegrace, if you're having other
deadlines to meet as well, youknow, I can talk to you as a
person.
When you're being commanded todo something at the risk of
being punished for not doing it,then you get.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
oh you know, definitely a different
experience In the Marine Corps.
We had the 15 prior conceptright, which is where any time
that you had to be somewhere ordoing something, you had to show
up 15 minutes prior to thebeginning of whatever that was.
But that 15 prior applies atevery link of the chain.
(38:26):
So you've got your platooncommander, he tells the staff in
COIC, staff in charge, he'slike, hey, I want this done by
this time.
And he says good to go, sir,we'll have it done at least 15
minutes prior to that.
And then he tells the nextperson down and so on and so
forth.
And by the time it gets towhere I was at the E3, e4 level
Lance Corporals and Corporalsyou're doing things days or
(38:50):
weeks in advance and it's notnecessarily because they need to
be done like that, but it'sbecause the order has been
passed through so many channelsand it is kind of like a
redundancy to make sure toaccount for unforeseen obstacles
and things like that.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
But at the same time, it shows that you have no trust
in those below you, which wasthe toughest part for me,
because I was good at my job.
I knew what I was doing.
So give me that extra time andbe on the same level with me.
Let's talk, you know, person toperson.
You're not having to tell meexactly what to do.
I'm pretty good at this.
Let me do my job.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
So do you feel like you're being allowed to do your
job now here at UT Tyler?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, and it all depends on me.
I'm not relying on anybody elseto get something done.
I don't, besides, like groupprojects, which has been
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah, group projects.
That's always a problem becausewe don't assign them properly.
We ought to design a better wayto create group projects,
because I do think that when youlearn how to work in a team
which I'm sure is what youlearned how to do in the
military it's an important setof skills and increasingly we
see, when employers come to usto tell us what it is they want
from us, they say teamwork isright there at the top, and
(40:01):
that's the single thing I thinkmost high school and college
students especially hate.
So what about the social lifein college?
Is it what you expected?
(40:22):
Is it different?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
I don't participate much.
I'd rather go home and do somehomework as opposed to
especially driving to Longview.
It's a 45-minute drive.
I've got other stuff and I'vegot other priorities, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
What are some of those priorities?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Like I said, my friends are out there in
Longview.
They're some of my closestfriends and they had a little
girl fairly recently and I amUnky Ben and I'm having fun
being Unky Ben and watching hergrow and getting comfortable
with the new church family,contributing there to the best
of my ability and maintainingcontact with other friends,
(40:57):
because now you know, my friendsare scattered across the globe.
You know I got friends inGermany and Salt Lake Georgia.
You know my friends arescattered across the globe.
You know I've got friends inGermany and Salt Lake Georgia.
You know, all over the place.
So I'd like to maintain thoserelationships.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I think you will.
I think you will and I thinkhaving the college degree is
going to help you moving forward.
However, you end up decidingwhat you want to be when you
grow up.
It will give you more mobilitythan you think and in the
meantime, it's great that youhave friends around A lot of
really good.
What about you, Cody?
Speaker 4 (41:26):
It's way different.
I'm 27 now.
I'll be 28 this month.
Most of my classmates andpeople around me are between the
ages of 17 and 20.
They haven't necessarily hadthe time to experience the world
the way that I have, and soit's kind of hard to find common
ground in that respect.
Like outside of our classestogether, these kids are talking
(41:47):
about TikTok.
They're talking about pop starsand celebrities and shows that
they're watching.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, and I have a stepson who went back to
college but he had the samefeeling.
He went back, he was 24 and hefelt old.
And in all the years I've beenhere, the students who come back
come back because they want tobe here.
It's a choice, it's not just,oh, I'm supposed to do this,
it's kind of the role of thingsand my parents want me to and
da-da, and you all do so muchbetter, so much better.
(42:24):
You get your work done on time,you ask good questions, you can
see when people are being silly, you recognize stuff.
And I just love it when I haveolder students because I know I
can count on you and I thinkcertainly in the classes you've
been in well, I guess you'veonly been in one class with me,
cody, but you're a standard thatthey had to measure themselves
to.
But you also were very graciouswith them.
You didn't talk down to them.
You all have an opportunity tobe leaders in these classes.
(42:47):
You were that.
I mean, you were just naturallythat, or maybe you'd learned
how to be that way in themilitary and maybe it's because
you want to be a teacher already.
You kind of got that kind ofvibe going.
But one of the things I alwayswant to say to anybody whether
you're a veteran or someoneolder who wants to come back to
college don't be afraid to be alittle older.
It actually gives you a greatadvantage.
(43:08):
When I went back to grad school, I went back when I was 40.
I talk about really old rightand I had the same feeling.
This was a PhD program.
I had students, you know theywere 32 and I was 40.
It felt like miles apart ofexperience.
My main people that I liked andam now good, close friends with
are my professors, and I wouldencourage you to be close to
(43:29):
your faculty because I know thatwe like you guys a lot and want
you all to know how much wevalue you.
If there are vets out therethat think about coming to
college, what's some adviceyou'd give them about what to
expect, what to do, what not todo?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
For sure, for sure, for sure.
Go to the Veterans ServicesOffice and get your VA stuff in
order.
Even if you get assigned a 0%disability rating, right, it's
still a rating and if anythingcomes up later on down the line,
that'll be a much smootherprocess if you do that first
Right, and doing that will kindof prime you for the process of
(44:07):
doing your administration stuff,your financial aid stuff,
especially when you get to theVSO, the Veteran Services Office
.
You do, you know, claims andstuff through them, and wherever
you go there's probably a spacesomewhere on the campus that's
specially designated forveterans, like here.
We have the Military VeteranSuccess Center.
(44:28):
That was where I met some of thefirst friends that I made here
in Tyler and they're fantastic.
So yeah, definitely do the VAstuff, regardless of how much
you like or dislike the VA.
Find other veterans at yourcampus.
You don't have to be very goodbuddy-buddy with them, but just
understand that they're outthere and they're doing the same
thing that you're doing.
So at some point you're goingto have to reach out to somebody
(44:50):
and go.
Hey, I just need to decompressand talk about the things I'm
going through.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, it's a stressful thing, even if you're
17 or 18.
And I think sometimes peoplewho are older think that maybe
they're supposed to handle itbetter.
But it's a different set ofstressors, isn't it?
What about you?
Best advice to guys that arecoming back or women who are
coming back?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
It's not as hard as you think it is.
I think there's a certain likeoh, this is a real school, you
know and I have had to, you know, change my manner of speaking
in a lot of ways.
But in terms of the classes,you know, this is not some scary
person at the front of the room.
You can go talk to theprofessor, you can have a
conversation with them.
If you're going throughsomething and you need a little
(45:35):
leniency, a lot of them will belike yeah, we can work together
on this, but you're just dealingwith people that have no,
they're not an authority figurein the way that we're used to
seeing authority figures.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Ashley, I want you to chime in here.
What are some of the thoughtsyou've had as you've listened to
these gentlemen talk abouttheir experience.
You want to tell them a littlebit about you, who you are and
what you've been doing.
Speaker 5 (45:58):
Sure.
First off, thank you for yourservice.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Thank you for your support.
Sure First off.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
Thank you for your service, thank you for your
support.
I'm interested to hear whatkind of advice you might have
for people who are just cominginto college 18, 19.
I'm 19 now and I'm majoring inmass communications, and are
there things that you've learnedthat you would go back and tell
(46:22):
your younger?
Speaker 4 (46:23):
self or that you would tell another young person
at this point in your life Forme it would definitely be
there's going to be otherparties.
You don't need to go to everysingle party you hear about.
You don't need to be doing awhole lot of this
extracurricular stuff.
Really, it's making peace withthe fact that your time for
messing around and not takingyourself seriously that time has
kind of passed right, becausenow your decisions aren't
(46:45):
necessarily confined to a highschool or to your social group.
Now you're an active agent inthe world right, and, like we
talked about earlier, it's up toyou to define how effective
you're going to be.
So I'm not saying that you gotto give 110% every single second
of every single day, but youknow, take it seriously.
(47:05):
You are a person that is worthinvesting your time in.
Jordan Peterson talks a lotabout you have to think about
yourself as if you were a personthat you're responsible for
taking care of.
When you get the things thatyou have to get done
accomplished right, you're goingto find time for these other
things, and it'll make it morespecial If you're at the end of
a long week and you dideverything you were supposed to
(47:27):
do, all the homework's done, youknow, and you've got a little
bit of time, hit up a friend andbe like hey, you know, I've got
a couple hours to kill.
Do you want to go see a movie?
You want to get some food, andit'll be that much more
important to you, and then thatwill help drive you through the
next week, and so on and soforth.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
You build up momentum .
That way you don't knoweverything.
You really don't.
You know next to nothing.
In fact, it feels like you'velived a lot of life at that
point, which from yourperspective, you have.
But listen to other people,observe other people.
Observe not just like yourprofessors, but observe the
older people in your class andsee how they're acting and how
they react to things and take itseriously.
They've lived some life,they've got some other
(48:11):
experiences under their belt,and then go out and find some
experiences of your own.
It doesn't have to be thegeneric, you know teen, movie,
college experience.
You don't need to go out and goto parties and whatnot, but go
find things that interest youand take some people along, and
that way you'll build realfriendships with these people,
not superficial friendships.
(48:32):
I believe in the importance ofhaving a solid core group of
friends, of people that yousurround yourself with, and pay
attention to the impact theyhave on you and the impact you
have on them, and have thatcircle of influence and focus on
those people and what you cando for them.
and be, honest, just be honest.
If you're struggling, tellsomebody you're struggling.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
But you know one of the things that I observe as a
professor and we'll start towrap it up here but this is not
a fully residential universitywhere people come in as freshmen
and stay four years and thenleave, and increasingly that's
the way a lot of people are.
They come in with a number ofhours already.
Sometimes they come in fromhaving done an associate's
degree elsewhere, and so theymay only be here two years, and
(49:16):
if they don't use this time here, if they don't make friends
here, it's harder.
This is one of the best timesto make friends, and yet I see a
lot of times students kind ofcome to their class and leave,
come in their class and leave.
They spend their time in thehalls looking at their phones
instead of talking to the realhumans around them.
But having a group of friendsis really important, isn't it?
(49:38):
Yeah, as you get olderespecially, you'll discover that
old friends are some of thebest friends.
You know they really are.
As Ashley said, I'm reallygrateful for your service.
(49:59):
I'm really also grateful thatyou came and let us talk to you
and pick your brains here, andis there anything that you want
to add that you thought?
Oh, I wish they'd say this.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It just occurred to me, we didn't talk about the
resources available to veteransa lot outside of school.
The Texas Veteran Commissionwebsite is a fantastic resource
that has a bunch of paths youcan go down to see.
If you're someone looking toget back into school or if
you're not gonna go back toschool, there's other
opportunities out there VR&E,which can help you find a job
(50:28):
that fits you if you're injured.
There's Vet Tech, which canhelp you get a training in the
trades.
If you're not interested ingoing to a four-year school and
getting a degree, there's otheropportunities out there besides
just going to college.
Everybody talks about going tocollege like it's the only one,
but there's a lot and you knowyou reach out if you're
(50:49):
struggling.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
Oh yeah, that's probably the number one thing is
to reach out.
It's kind of directly enforcedat least when you're in is like
there's no real reason to tryand take a step back.
A lot of people don't like togo to medical because going to
medical kind of sends a messagethat you're not trying as hard
as everybody else or you're notas committed as everybody else,
(51:11):
which is complete nonsense.
Even though it persists.
There's no way you can do it byyourself.
It's not possible.
And even if you think you arehim or that guy or that girl who
can do it all by himself, Iunderstand you had somebody who
raised you, you had people whotaught you how to speak, how to
do numbers.
All these things Rely on that.
(51:31):
You know, hone that skill ofreaching out and making those
connections, especially forveterans.
Even if you don't really wantto use those resources and go
into school or a trade oranything like that, just get
involved.
Those resources and going toschool or a trade or anything
like that, just get involved.
One of the most valuable thingsfor me personally is just to
know that there's value in myservice, and not just for the
military but in the community.
The day-to-day stuff you know.
(51:52):
Find somewhere where you canhave a task that you can commit
yourself to and really give it agenuine full effort, because
that will show you, regardlessof the details and whatever else
is going on, there's stillthings you can do.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
You're still valuable , especially to yourself yeah,
and what y'all are doing rightnow is you're building on top of
a really firm foundation ofhaving learned a lot in the
military.
You're adding new skills,you're adding new ways of
thinking, deeper kind of thought.
But I think you're right thathaving something to give to the
community whether it's in yourchurch or your family, friends,
(52:30):
your profession as a teacher ora doctor or a lawyer, where
you're giving services to others, it's enormously fulfilling.
It's funny at my point in mycareer I still get great joy in
knowing that today I helpedNatalie get her stuff together.
Today I got to encourageso-and-so.
Today I got to make sure thatso-and-so made it to class on
(52:55):
time and got his work done.
Whatever it is, you end upfinding out what you want to do
when you finally grow up at 49or 59.
Make sure you're doingsomething for other people.
I think, from what you've saidalready, that you've already got
that in your head, and I knowyou do too.
Cody, thank you for doing itfor us today.
It was very interesting to bothof us.
You've really made my week andI want to thank you both for
(53:16):
being here.
I'm glad to get to know you.
Maybe you need to come take anEnglish class with me.
Maybe we'll teach you how muchyou love literature, or get you
to practice how much you alreadylove literature, and, in the
meantime, have a great weekend,you guys.
So well, that was prettyinteresting.
I enjoyed that.
I guess that's a wrap, ashley.
Speaker 5 (53:34):
Yes ma'am, this has been the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningin with us today, and if you
have questions about collegelife or any of the topics that
we were talking about today,please send us your questions to
ADRquestions at gmailcom.
We'd love to hear from you.
In the meanwhile, we'll see youin the next episode.
Thank you very much.
This is Ashley Wertlich signingoff.
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