October 14, 2025 • 33 mins
As one of the hard sciences, Biology tends to be more concrete in our imaginations. White lab coats. Microscopes. The mitochondria (it's the powerhouse of the cell). But what about snake-trapping? Fishing? Counting frog calls?
The field is a lot wider than we might think.
This week, Dr. Ross and student producer Ashley Worley continue their series highlighting inside stories and college prep practicalities from UT Tyler's Biology department. Department chair Dr. Lance Williams and Biology student MJ Baker join the discussion to share what's really happening in biology and chemistry classes, from fieldwork to lab reports. If you're choosing your degree, preparing for college life, or just curious about other experiences in higher ed, this series is for you.
Have more questions about life inside a Biology department? Email us at ADRquestions@gmail.com or leave a comment below. We'd love to hear from you!
Want to learn more or connect with UT Tyler's Department of Biology? Click the link below!
-Department webpage: https://www.uttyler.edu/academics/colleges-schools/arts-sciences/departments/biology/
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
So, as you all have probably figured out, one of the
goals of this podcast is toeducate folks about what goes on
at universities.
And the central college in mostuniversities was the College of
Arts and Sciences.
SPEAKER_03 (00:16):
For this series, we're going to be introducing
each of our wonderfuldepartments in the College of
Arts and Sciences by bringingyou a top professor in that
department and one of the topstudents as well.
We hope that this is veryhelpful to you as you're
choosing your major or justwanting to learn more about what
to expect from college life ingeneral.
Thank you for listening and wehope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
Well, so we're really excited to have our two
guests today.
We have Dr.
Lance Williams and MJ Baker fromthe Department of Biology at UT
Tyler.
Tell us a little bit about whereyou were trained and how you got
to UT Tyler, and then we'll askyou a little bit about what you
teach.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Sure.
Okay.
I started as a biology major atthe University of Oklahoma.
It was a zoology major,actually.
And my sophomore year, my wifeand I took a class with a
professor that turns out was areally big name in fish ecology,
and we didn't really know thatat the time.
And then his graduate studentinvited us to go to take a
summer class at a field station.
(01:17):
And that PhD student hiredMarsha and I to work for him
when he was doing hisdissertation work.
And then that PhD studentencouraged me to do my master's
at Oklahoma State with one ofhis committee members where he
did his master's.
And so I went to Oklahoma Stateand did my master's with uh Dr.
Tony E.
Kelly, also a really well-knownfish evolutionary biologist,
(01:38):
probably at that time theworld's expert on pupfish in the
desert.
I didn't work on desert pupfish,I worked on leopard arters,
which was an endangered speciesthat was in southeastern
Oklahoma and southwesternArkansas.
So that was my first experiencedoing real research on fish
species in the wild.
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
So the thing that hooked you was the field work
and the research part of it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Yeah.
At a bigger school like OU, alot of undergrads don't get to
do research.
I was really lucky.
And I think you could say thesame at UT Austin, but at UT
Tyler, because we're a smallerprogram, it is a lot more
opportunity for undergraduatesto do research.
I try to find students early on,and I I was telling MJ before we
walked over here, when I hiresomebody, I try to keep them the
(02:18):
entire time that they're inschool.
Because I can teach them things.
MJ's gonna get to go to aconference in August and give a
presentation at the NationalAmerican Fishery Society
conference, which is a prettybig deal.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Yeah, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So then interesting story that PhD student that I
worked for at OU, he was in abrand new assistant professor at
Mississippi State University.
And I was finishing my master'sand I was in New Orleans at a
conference, and I was tellinghim I was applying to PhD
programs, and I told him who Iwas applying to work with, and
he said, Yeah, yeah, those aregood people.
Why don't you come work with meinstead?
He had just gotten a grant, andso that person was very
(02:54):
instrumental in my career.
If you can't tell, I mean Iworked for him as an undergrad.
He sent me to do my master's andI did my PhD with him.
Still a very good friend of mineto this day.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
Well, you know, that's such an important part of
higher education, and I thinkalso of smaller schools where
you get to know people and itthere's a kind of a network.
So MJ Baker, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
How long have you been at UTTyler and how'd you get
interested in studying biology?
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
I started at UT Tyler three years ago, and I'm
now getting into my seniorsemester, which will be next
semester, so I would graduate inDecember, and I decided to go
into biology basically because Iknew I loved science, I was good
at it, and grew up on a farm, soI really liked biology-centered
stuff.
Didn't really know which pathwayI wanted to go on, and I wasn't
(03:45):
sure if I wanted to be aveterinarian or biologist or um
medicine, but I was more gearedto medicine and I have done all
of that pre-rex and now I'm herein Dr.
Williams' lab doing researchwith him, which has been really
fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
So, what is the research project you're working
on with Dr.
Williams?
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Aaron Powell So I actually do two.
One is working withmacroinvertebrates, which is
just a fancy word for waterbugs.
Well, the ones I do are waterbugs.
Also, I help out on a graduatestudent's project right now that
works with invasive Australianred claw crayfish.
So I do kind of both of those.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Before we get too fancy into all this research
stuff, we want to talk a littlebit about what do you teach?
What are the typical coursesthat a student will take who
wants to be a biology major?
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
I'm the department chair, so I don't teach as much
as I used to.
The main course I teach forundergraduates is biogeography.
That's where I first met MJ, itwas last fall.
And biogeography is an electivecourse in biology.
I've also taught ecology.
I have taught aquatic biology.
Those were the main courses thatI taught.
I've taught freshman biology.
And then I, for fun a few yearsago, the Board of Regents, they
(04:54):
changed up the core curriculum.
One of the things that came outof it was the course Biology and
Popular Culture.
It's a class I teach for honorstudents.
It is for non-biology majors,non-STEM majors.
So it we cover the biologicalconcepts, but we try to put it
into the popular cultureconstruct.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Aaron Ross Powell So you study about what zombies and
we've done a little bit ofzombies.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Virulent diseases or we've read the Lorax, a variety
of different media.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
So if a student's coming from high school, what
would they take?
What would they study theirfirst year as a biology major?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Aaron Ross Powell So with a first year as a biology
major, you really concentratedin science.
You're going to take biology oneand two, chemistry one and two,
and math.
Mostly that.
Because we require calculus.
So most students takepre-calculus and calculus.
That's most of your first year.
It's not like a junior collegefor some degrees where you do a
lot of basics in your firstyear.
You don't have much room in yourfirst year because it's
(05:47):
important to get those coursesin and stem because they're they
sequence.
So for example, for chemistry,we require biochemistry, which
means you have to take chemistryone, chemistry two, organic one,
organic two, then biochemistry.
So you have five semesters ofchemistry and they have to be
sequenced that way.
So if you get off one semester,it can throw your whole degree
plan off.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
MJ, have you found that that's an important thing
is staying in lockstep with thatsequencing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Oh yeah.
And it saved me a lot of issuesdown the road because I did
that.
I went ahead and got those outof the way.
But you do see students thatcome in and maybe they took some
dual credit or something alongthose lines in high school and
coming in is kind of weird.
It's splotchy for them.
And I was really lucky to nothave that problem.
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
Aaron Powell So sometimes the dual credit
courses that they take in highschool are out of the sequence?
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Dual credit's fine.
I mean I don't have a problemwith dual credit if it's done
well.
I've seen it done really well.
The problem you often get, acouple of problems.
One, sometimes students are justnot ready yet for college at 16
years old, especially in STEMand math areas.
So parts of the brain haven'tquite developed enough
potentially.
And I've had students come witha lot of dual credit with a
(06:58):
really low GPA telling me theywant to get into medical school.
And it's heartbreaking to haveto tell them you've got 60 hours
and you have a 2.0, you onlyhave 60 more hours to get to a
3.5, you're gonna have to makean A in every single class that
you take from now on.
A lot of kids aren't old enoughto understand the ramifications
of the grades that they're gonnamake and how those college
(07:18):
grades are gonna carry on withthem for potentially the rest of
their career.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Aaron Powell So your advice for someone who's really
a serious science student tothink about holding off on
taking some of their sciencewhen they get to the four-year
college.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
Yeah, and and don't burn up all of your core classes
either, because it's nice tohave a core class to pad those
semesters where you have a lotof hard science classes with
labs.
The problem we often see whenstudents come in core complete
or from a junior college is thatI have to tell them all you have
left to take is science classeswith labs, pretty much.
I mean school a lot because labsare three hours for one credit.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
That's right.
So a regular biology class is abiology class with lecture and
conversation and plus threehours of lab a week.
So that's a heavy duty.
Now, when you graduate with abiology degree, do you have more
than the usual 120 hours?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
No, you can do it in 120 if you follow the plan, but
students often deviate.
You know, the other problem yousee with dual credit is a lot of
self-advising.
And that is a problem for ourown undergraduates, little yet a
high school student.
And so one common mistake thatstudents make is they'll take
anatomy and physiology.
The sophomore level course, it'spretty common for dual credit.
(08:32):
That is a course is specific fornursing majors.
We don't accept it in biology.
It doesn't count for credit.
It's a non-majors course for us.
We teach it and our students cantake it, but it doesn't count
towards the degree.
And so that's eight hours ofcourses, you know, two
three-hour lectures and then twolabs.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
If I'm understanding you right, then a person who
wants to be a doctor, a vet, apharmacist, a dentist needs to
be thinking very carefully aboutwhat they take before they get
to the four-year college and beaware that the level of
difficulty that apre-professional degree is
(09:09):
looking for is way on up there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
And we don't offer labs online.
All of our labs areface-to-face.
I'm a fisheries biologist.
I I can't I I mean I could takeYouTube videos of myself
sampling in a stream, but that'snot the same thing as holding
the fish in your hand andidentifying it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Well, yesterday I was walking down in front of the
building here and I saw two ofyour students wearing rubber
boots and carrying some sort ofbig old cages of some sort of
stuff.
So what are you gonna go out andtrap today?
Snakes, they said.
And I went, oh boy.
Who teaches her patology thesedays?
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
My wife, Marsha.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Okay.
How do you teach a biologyclass?
What goes on in a biology class?
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
You know, every person does it a little bit
differently.
We're all very hands-on, firstof all, in biology.
You kind of have to be in thesciences.
But lecture styles are differentby people.
You know, my wife puts a lot ofslides up and is real clear
about what her expectations are.
I have another professor that'sa bit more Socratic, so he
expects that students are goingto have read the assignment
(10:10):
before they come to class, andhe wants to have discussions in
class, and they should havealready read the material.
I kind of teach by tellingstories.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
And the stories are fun, aren't they?
What's it like to be in class?
What what's the day like for astudent in biology?
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
Well, it really varies because like Dr.
Linz was saying was that likeevery professor in the biology
department is going to teachdifferently.
So, you know, you can go to oneclass where Dr.
Williams has his shoes off, iswalking on a table telling some
story of how this is relevantand it's fun and you know, a
little different.
And then, like you said, you canswitch over to microbiology,
(10:46):
which is a really traditional,you know, slides-on, taking
notes type of class.
So it varies, but overall, beready to take notes.
That's something huge inbiology.
When you get in the upper levelbiology courses, I've gotten to
where I'd actually rather typemy notes.
It's a little bit faster for me,and we cover a lot of content
very quick.
(11:07):
Even in Dr.
Williams' class, even in Dr.
Yu, who teaches microbiology,and in any of those, it's a
little bit easier.
But when I took Gen Bio, I didtake really good notes and I
wrote them down.
I just realized my energy wasbetter put to typing rather than
writing everything after I gotto a certain point.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting that researchers on
how we learn have said that thetaking of notes by hand rather
than typing them tends to giveyou a little bit more depth of
exposure to the ideas becauseyou can't write as fast as you
can type.
You have to sort through andkind of think about it a little
bit more.
And so there's a little bitdeeper level of processing.
But anyway, it's a little thingI like to mention is that
(11:48):
note-taking is a reallyimportant skill.
What do you like about a classin biology, MJ?
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
Oh, well, I just like real things.
Like I love to learn aboutliving things.
I think most of my favoriteclasses, if they have anything
to do with evolution, I love toknow why things are the way they
are.
And in biology, almost everyclass you talk about is gonna
have some aspect of evolution init.
I like applicable things.
It's very applicable becauseit's so relatable.
(12:16):
It's just you walk outside,there's biology.
That's why I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
I've got to tell our audience that this young woman
is beaming as she's saying this,and that I just looked over at
her teacher and her teacher'sgrinning too.
So it it is a joyful study,isn't it?
Dr.
Williams, tell us a little bitabout the skills that a student
in the sciences needs to have.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
So lab skills are incredibly important.
That's also why online labs area bad idea, because those skills
build, right?
So you're learning to pipet,you're learning to do those
things in general biology.
Then when you get into cellbiology and genetics, we're
going to expect that you knowhow to pipet, and you're gonna
have to learn to identifyorganisms.
A lot of what MJ is doing in mylab is identifying little bitty
caddysfly larvae.
(12:57):
And it takes tremendous skill,detail to be able to do that, to
count hairs on the legs of atiny insect larvae.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
And you do that under a microscope, I assume?
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, to an extent, youcan look at them.
They're all very differentcolors, all kinds of stuff going
on with them.
But yeah, for the actualidentification, it's very
tedious.
It's looking under a microscope,having a headache all day, you
know, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
So it's not always just really fun playing with
living things.
Sometimes it's a little slow andtedious, huh?
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
Yeah.
The field work's a lot of fun.
You're gonna go out and get thehands-on stuff, but most of I
would say the dirty work happensin the lab when you bring
everything back and you have toidentify it and you know, see
what's actually going on.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
So let's see, lab skills are important.
SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
We talked about note-taking.
That's incredibly important.
You know, as a physician, youneed to live a lot, we have a
lot of pre-med students, youneed to be able to listen to
your patients, take good notes,and understand and and be able
to process, think, and and youknow they want to know what's
wrong.
And so it takes a lot of skillto be able to diagnose some
condition that a person has.
(14:04):
It takes listening skills, ittakes writing skills, it takes
lab skills many times.
So it takes all the the skillsthat we teach are applicable to
whether you become a scientistor a medical doctor or a
dentist, you're gonna use all ofthose tedious skills.
You don't think cleaning teethis tedious?
It's very tedious to cleansomeone's teeth.
And the research is different.
You know, my research, I usuallydiscourage students, honestly,
(14:27):
at first from doing researchwith me because it's very hard.
I'm an aquatic biologist.
We are terrestrial animals.
So for us to sample things inwater is difficult, requires
expensive, heavy equipment.
The project MJ's working on, wehave to haul around traps.
We usually bring around ahundred traps.
These traps are pretty big, andwe have to bring them in a
trailer and loaded with tans ofsardines and hot dogs, and we
(14:49):
have to bait them, we have tocheck them.
It's long days.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
Do you have ideas about what you want to do
professionally, MJ?
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
Oh yeah.
I I've thought about it a while,and I know going into my last
semester, which is nextsemester, I've narrowed it down.
I'm going to go ahead and get amaster's degree in something to
do with biology.
I kind of had a feeling that Iwould want to do that no matter
where my life went way on in thefuture.
SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
You're not done yet, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Yeah, I'm not done yet.
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
You're in your almost in your senior year and
you still want to keep going.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think like next step-wise,I'll do my master's degree.
I'm probably going to be goingsomewhere else.
Not sure yet.
I have, you know, been reachingout, doing the normal preparing
for finding a grad school to goto.
And then after that, I don'tknow what I want to do for sure.
I might go ahead and get my PhD.
(15:40):
I might go to medical school.
I'm not sure yet.
And you know, we are in a busyworld that tells you you should
know what you want to do veryquickly, but I don't.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
I just Well, I will just tell you that's okay.
You know, most of us at like Dr.
Williams and I will tell youthat that's part of the joy of
going to college is finding outwhat you care about and not
being sure.
I think it's important, as yousaid, to plan your studies
carefully.
So if you do plan to go tomedical school, you've got the
courses in the right sequenceand you got the grade point
(16:09):
average necessary.
But you sound like you're aperson who's very intellectually
engaged in what you do and youfind it interesting.
I'm sure Dr.
Williams says the same thing toyou that I'm gonna say is just
keep on enjoying the studies andfollow what your brain and your
heart tell you about it.
It's a terrible thing to get outwith a degree and having to do a
(16:29):
job that you don't really enjoy.
You know?
I mean look at this guy, howmuch fun does he have?
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
I have a funny story how MJ came to work for me.
So I was in biogeography lastyear, and I do my usual spiel
where I say you should getinvolved in research, which I
feel very strongly about.
Any undergraduate you should getinvolved in research, but I
usually say you probably don'twant to do research with me
because it's very hard, requiresa lot of heavy lifting, long,
tedious days in the field,walking around in swamps.
(16:57):
In waiters with alligators, andyou know, not for everybody.
MJ came up after class and shesaid, I grew up on a farm and I
broke horses.
I think I could work for you.
And I said, Okay, why don't youvolunteer in my lab?
And see if you like it.
And see if you like it.
And so she volunteered in mylab, worked with another
undergrad that had been workingwith me for about a year.
(17:18):
I was secretly asking my otherstudent, so what do you think of
MJ?
How's she working out?
Does she look like she's gonnado a good job?
And then she was into my class,I really didn't know her that
well.
And so I was waiting to get thefirst exam to see how she did on
my first exam.
She asked me about a paidposition, and I kind of put her
off for a little bit, and and Ihanded back the exams and I
(17:41):
said, You want a job paid?
She said, Well, are you waitingon my test?
And I said, Yes, I was.
So that is a true story.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
I did know that I kind of had a feeling, I don't
know why, anyways, like, youknow, you want to impress the
person that you are kind ofworking for, volunteering for,
and I'm taking his class.
So I wanted to like do good onmy first exam, but then I handed
it to him and he he startedlooking at it like really
intensely from the beginning,and I was like, I know what he
was doing.
Apparently he liked what he saw.
(18:10):
Well, I hope so.
It seems like it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
So do you have students launch their own
research projects or are theyalways under a professor?
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
It's very rare does it happen that a student they
usually don't have thebackground to know where to do
the research, and it takesfunding in the sciences to do
research.
And so usually it's with aprofessor, sometimes we'll pair
them with a graduate student.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
Aaron Powell Would you explain to the audience
about this funding with grants?
Because a lot of folks don'trealize how much you have to
work just to get outsidefunding, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
You know, when you take a job as a professor, your
university will invest a littlebit of money in you to get you
started.
But the expectation in thesciences that you're going to
bring in grants to bring in moreequipment and to bring in
students.
So in the sciences, a lot of ourgraduate students that are
working on their thesis, theyhave to get paid.
They have to be able to make aliving.
So we have to have salary forgraduate students.
(19:04):
We need help fromundergraduates, and I like to be
able to pay them as well.
And then it takes money totravel.
You know, if we're going toBrownsville and we go for three
days and we have to get hotelsand we have to eat all our
meals, it takes grant money todo that.
I mean, I you could do it onyour own, but I'd go broke
really fast if I self-funded myown research.
And the university doesn't fundus for research really.
(19:25):
You know, there are small awardsthat you can apply for that are
competitive, but those are oftenearmarked for new faculty
members.
And as you said, I've been herea while.
I don't want to compete with newprofessors for those kinds of
funds because they need themmore than I do.
So I have to rely on externalsources of funding.
So I'm all the time writinggrants.
So we don't just teach asprofessors.
I do a lot of grant writing.
(19:47):
I write a lot of papers,manuscripts.
If you don't turn that researchinto papers that are published
or go present at conferences,then people aren't gonna know
who you are.
So when you apply for grants,they're not going to look as
kindly on it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
I'm really glad you're explaining that because a
lot of folks think all we do ascollege professors we just go
in, we teach our classes, and wego home, and what a cushy job,
you know.
We don't work in the summers andand yet what do you do in the
summers?
You're spending all your time inthe field.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
I work all summer, always have.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
And then the job it takes to write grants, it's a
lot of trouble, I know.
What's an example of a grant yourecently got just to kind of put
some dollars and cents in thegrant that MJ's working on was
funded by Texas Parks andWildlife.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
So the grants from Texas Parks and Wildlife usually
are in the$50,000 to$150,000range.
It varies depending on whatyou're going to do, how much
travel there is, how complicatedit is, how many years the study
goes.
The larger grant that I have ispart of a multi-state grant
funded by the USDA to look atthe ecosystem of these wetlands.
Our portion of that is aroundhalf a million dollars.
(20:50):
There are federal programs toconstruct wetlands for habitat.
But what often happens with alot of these kinds of situations
is they construct them, but noone ever goes back to evaluate
are they doing what they weresupposed to do?
Are they functioning the waythey were supposed to function?
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
Now what do you mean by a constructed habitat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
It's like an old agricultural field that they'll
dig out and literally pipe waterinto.
So that you have a wetland forSo waterfowl for amphibian
breeding.
So a lot of these wetlands, whathappens is you don't often don't
have fish in wetlands becausethey dry down and and fill back
up.
So what happens when they fillup in the spring this time of
year they're filling up.
(21:30):
And the aquatic insects arebreeding in them and the
amphibians are breeding rightnow.
We're going to go do somewetland sampling, and one of the
things we'll do is nighttimefrog call surveys.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
Frog call surveys.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Yeah.
The frogs breed at night.
And so we go out at night and wehave to learn to identify them
by call.
But we can hear the calls and wecan estimate how many there are
calling, and uh that's one ofthe things that we do.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Aaron Powell And so when you find out how many frogs
are there on an April night,what does that do?
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Aaron Ross Powell Well, we're also looking at
natural wetlands at the sametime.
Ones that have been a wetlandfor a long time.
Think of Caddo Lake.
That's a really big one.
But you know, there are naturalwetlands that have always been
wetlands or have been for a longtime.
Some of these constructedwetlands are only 20 years old,
10 years old, and so we don'tknow how long it takes for them
to mature to where the frogs arebreeding in them.
Some of the salamanders, forexample, from our study so far,
(22:18):
it has to be a pretty maturewetland or a natural wetland to
start to get some of theamphibians like sirens and
amphiuma because they'reobligate aquatic.
So when the wetland starts todry down, they have to be able
to bury in the mud.
And so if it goes completely dryand it's really dry for a long
period of time, they may notsurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Wow.
Wow.
Tell me a little bit aboutwhat's the worst thing about
being a biology major besidescarrying heavy stuff in the hot
sun?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
It's a lot to manage.
Even though you're taking, youknow, let's say on average 120
credit hours, you're gonna be atschool maybe two to three times
a week from 8 a.m.
to five p.m.
because you have labs.
Labs are three hours typically,sometimes four, and they're
gonna consist of just workingthroughout the entire time doing
(23:06):
an experiment.
It's really tiring, and withthat kind of coursework, it
requires a lot more timemanagement because let's say on
you know, a max two to threeclasses a day, and then you're
gonna go to a lab from 2 p.m.
typically till five p.m.
and then you have to go home ormaybe for some students work,
(23:28):
and then you're gonna go homeand do all the homework, all the
writing the lab report.
Let's say you're in a class,they expect you to read ahead,
you know, reading ahead beforethe day before.
It's a lot of time managementand it can get overwhelming for
a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
You know, this is one of the biggest um messages
we've wanted to get out tostudents out there who are, you
know, aspiring to go to college,is that it looks like you don't
have as much to do because youmaybe have four or five classes
and they only meet two or threetimes a week.
But it's all the other work youdo to get ready for those
classes.
It's the studying, it's the labwork, it's the writing it up.
(24:05):
And so we provide that time, butlike you said, it's a crunch.
It's a lot of work, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
It's a lot of work, and I have to say I'm not
perfect at it either.
Everybody who comes in, it'swhere you're going to be good at
time management.
It's a learning process, andthat's why in any STEM field is
like it's a very importantfactor of just taking a step
back, breathing, organizing.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
I'm struck, because you know, of course I teach in
the humanities side of theCollege of Arts and Sciences,
that there's a lot moreflexibility, I think, for us in
what we can take in the order wehave to take it.
We don't have to put it, youknow, chem one, chem two.
And I think that you're rightthat students need to know about
that ahead of time andunderstand that self-advising
(24:53):
isn't very smart advising.
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
It's not.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
MJ, we've already talked a little bit about what
made you want to be a biologymajor and how you knew you were
a good fit.
Do you have any kind of finaladvice maybe for someone who's
trying to figure out wherethey're gonna go in college and
maybe they're interested in thesciences, but they want to make
sure that they're a good fit forthe program?
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
Aaron Powell Well, I think there's a lot of different
ways I could answer that becauseit it's so different for maybe
everyone, you know, going into adifferent field.
But I'm gonna kind of hone in onbiology specifically or maybe
the sciences, like chemistry,biochemistry, biology, where as
I can speak more towards andwhat I've experienced in my life
is just like I was telling Dr.
(25:34):
Ross, that first semester youcome in, if you're going to
maybe in your first year, it's alot of growing pain.
And that's okay.
If at any point, you know, it'snot going your way, it's okay to
look around you and notice thatevery single person in that room
is probably struggling andwanting to pull their hair out
(25:54):
too.
And that took me a while to justbreathe and say, okay.
Especially I'm very type-basedstudent.
I was pre-med, I wanted the goodGPA, and I wanted to be perfect.
And I realized that, oh, I'mgonna get a B in my chemistry
classes.
And that was a big hit.
And it's not just me, it's mostof the people around you.
(26:15):
So I think that would be mybiggest advice is it's okay to
get a B in a chemistry class.
It's okay to get a B in a hardbiology class, even if you're a
biology person, there's so manylevels to things to say, you
know, it's okay to yourselfabout that.
And then, you know, timemanagement is huge.
And making sure that outside ofschool you have something that
(26:37):
you're doing that is not justchemistry and biology and math
classes.
I feel like I'm pretty goodabout making sure I take breaks.
Go on a run or, you know, gowatch a movie.
Any college person needs to knowit's okay to take a break,
especially if you're a studentlike me.
I worked all throughout college,always had a job, maybe one or
(26:58):
two, and it gets to be a lot.
So just making sure that youtake time for yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (27:04):
So have you been able to schedule your courses
around your work or your workaround your courses?
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
That's the nice thing about working on campus.
You can work around yourcourses.
They are never gonna tell you,you can't do that.
Any department, you tell them,you know, I have class at this
time, I need to go home, I needto do this for an exam.
They're going to be lenient withyou, they're gonna be
understanding.
That's something I'll alwaysstress to people when they come,
(27:31):
you know, find a job on campusis great if that if that works
for you because they'll be somuch more flexible.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
We understand.
Ashley is is being paid to helpme with this job, and every now
and then we have to say, it'stime to go work on your big
project for MassCom class,Ashley.
It's okay.
And she gets her hours in atanother time.
So, Ashley, yeah, I think youhad a question you wanted to
throw at Dr.
Williams too, didn't you?
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Aaron Powell I did.
And it's kind of the samequestion, but from the
professor's angle.
So let's say someone's coming upon maybe going into a master's
program or graduating, andthey're thinking about what kind
of jobs they want to have.
We've already talked a lot aboutlife as a biology professor, but
how would someone maybe get toknow whether or not this is a
(28:17):
kind of career that they want tobuild towards?
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
Getting involved as an undergraduate is very helpful
in research because you'll likeor dislike something very
quickly if you you know if youget into it and you don't like
it, you can switch.
You know, volunteer if you wantto be a medical doctor, make
sure you know what that lookslike because that's also a very
stressful job.
It's not what it looks like onTV.
You have sometimes have thestress of owning your own
business.
I don't teach students how torun a business.
(28:42):
And often as a physician or adentist, you're running a
business.
You have employees that dependon you and their families depend
on you.
So there's a lot more to thinkabout in careers to make sure
that you want to do that.
I have pre-vet students.
I love pre-vet students.
I've put a lot of students intovet schools successfully all
around the country and that haveworked for me.
But I often tell them make sureyou spend some time in a vet or
(29:05):
work at a vet's office becauseit's not just taking care of
animals.
You have to deal with people.
And sometimes those people arenot nice to animals.
And you're gonna see a lot ofugly stuff as a veterinarian,
and you've got to have a thickskin and a and a stomach for it.
And a lot of people aren'tprepared for that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
I know that the medical students now at our
school of medicine have startedexperiencing the issues of
family systems and how a familycontributes or does not
contribute to the health oftheir patient, and they realize
they have to deal with much morethan just the symptoms of the
patient.
That there's so much more goingon in the family system.
(29:42):
So that's a that's a wise bit ofadvice.
But is there any last bit ofinformation you want to share
with them or wisdom or advice sothat they might be able to make
good decisions about perhapscoming into your field?
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
I think that taking it slow is okay.
If you don't know for sure whatyou want.
Actually, some of my favoriteclasses I've taken were over in
the English department.
So I think it's great to exploreother areas.
I also think, like Dr.
Williams said, do not be afraidto go to your professor your
first semester here, especiallyif you are in these sciences and
(30:16):
say, How can I get involved?
It's very intimidating forstudents to come in, especially
you're going to be in a hugebiology class if you're taking
gen bio.
And all of these students arecoming from different areas.
You're going to have all kinds,uh, kinesiology, biology,
chemistry, biochemistry, youknow, and then other random
(30:38):
people who are in there for somereason.
And with that being said, it isjust overwhelming.
And you might be intimidated togo to a professor and say, I
don't know what I want to do.
Research sounds cool, or evenjust going to their office hours
and chatting with them.
Do not be intimidated to dothat.
Do not be intimidated to do thatyour first semester, because I
wish I would have done thatsooner.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
So, Dr.
Williams, do you have any lastthings to say about biology or
your department?
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
MJ said exactly what I was going to say, actually.
Get to know your professors.
So I'm going to have about 70students in my biogeography
class this fall.
I will get to know a handful ofthem very well.
I'll know everyone's name, thepeople that sit in the back.
I'll probably forget your namenext semester if you never talk
to me.
(31:25):
So, you know, it's the personthat sits in the front that
engages with me, that comes tomy office and talks and is, you
know, that's the person I'mgonna get to know.
Those are the people that aregonna get jobs in my lab.
That's how it works.
If you sit in the back and younever engage with your faculty
members, do you gonna not havethe same college experience?
SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
And so it's up to you to do it.
I completely agree.
And something else to add tothat, you know, after biology,
and m most people in biologywant to go to some form of
graduate school.
You need those recommendationletters.
And for me personally, I don'tfeel comfortable asking
professors that I maybe tooktheir class and good, you know,
did a good job in there.
(32:02):
But you want them to be able tosay, me and this student, you
know, had plentiful andimportant conversations that
were meaningful, and you know,not only did they do well in my
class, but I can say havinginteractions with them that they
were a delight to have in myclass.
And I think that's importanttoo.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Yeah, teachers love to have students that are
engaged and care.
It only enhances everybody'sexperience when you come out of
yourself and and engage in thatway.
So I'm so glad you said that.
So I think we've about finishedup, but anything last questions
or comments from you, Ashley?
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Nothing really, just a usual reminder to anybody who
might listen to this after thefact and is curious about coming
into college or about biology asa field.
You can always leave us aquestion and the comment section
of the YouTube video or send usan email.
SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
And if we can't answer it, we're gonna go after
Dr.
Williams and MJ and ask them toanswer it because I know they're
eager to help you all understandwhat a great field biology is.
So, as you all have probably figured out, one of the
goals of this podcast is toeducate folks about what goes on
at universities.
And the central college in mostuniversities was the College of
Arts and Sciences.
SPEAKER_03 (00:16):
For this series, we're going to be introducing
each of our wonderfuldepartments in the College of
Arts and Sciences by bringingyou a top professor in that
department and one of the topstudents as well.
We hope that this is veryhelpful to you as you're
choosing your major or justwanting to learn more about what
to expect from college life ingeneral.
Thank you for listening and wehope you enjoy.
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
Well, so we're really excited to have our two
guests today.
We have Dr.
Lance Williams and MJ Baker fromthe Department of Biology at UT
Tyler.
Tell us a little bit about whereyou were trained and how you got
to UT Tyler, and then we'll askyou a little bit about what you
teach.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Sure.
Okay.
I started as a biology major atthe University of Oklahoma.
It was a zoology major,actually.
And my sophomore year, my wifeand I took a class with a
professor that turns out was areally big name in fish ecology,
and we didn't really know thatat the time.
And then his graduate studentinvited us to go to take a
summer class at a field station.
(01:17):
And that PhD student hiredMarsha and I to work for him
when he was doing hisdissertation work.
And then that PhD studentencouraged me to do my master's
at Oklahoma State with one ofhis committee members where he
did his master's.
And so I went to Oklahoma Stateand did my master's with uh Dr.
Tony E.
Kelly, also a really well-knownfish evolutionary biologist,
(01:38):
probably at that time theworld's expert on pupfish in the
desert.
I didn't work on desert pupfish,I worked on leopard arters,
which was an endangered speciesthat was in southeastern
Oklahoma and southwesternArkansas.
So that was my first experiencedoing real research on fish
species in the wild.
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
So the thing that hooked you was the field work
and the research part of it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Yeah.
At a bigger school like OU, alot of undergrads don't get to
do research.
I was really lucky.
And I think you could say thesame at UT Austin, but at UT
Tyler, because we're a smallerprogram, it is a lot more
opportunity for undergraduatesto do research.
I try to find students early on,and I I was telling MJ before we
walked over here, when I hiresomebody, I try to keep them the
(02:18):
entire time that they're inschool.
Because I can teach them things.
MJ's gonna get to go to aconference in August and give a
presentation at the NationalAmerican Fishery Society
conference, which is a prettybig deal.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Yeah, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So then interesting story that PhD student that I
worked for at OU, he was in abrand new assistant professor at
Mississippi State University.
And I was finishing my master'sand I was in New Orleans at a
conference, and I was tellinghim I was applying to PhD
programs, and I told him who Iwas applying to work with, and
he said, Yeah, yeah, those aregood people.
Why don't you come work with meinstead?
He had just gotten a grant, andso that person was very
(02:54):
instrumental in my career.
If you can't tell, I mean Iworked for him as an undergrad.
He sent me to do my master's andI did my PhD with him.
Still a very good friend of mineto this day.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
Well, you know, that's such an important part of
higher education, and I thinkalso of smaller schools where
you get to know people and itthere's a kind of a network.
So MJ Baker, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
How long have you been at UTTyler and how'd you get
interested in studying biology?
SPEAKER_01 (03:23):
I started at UT Tyler three years ago, and I'm
now getting into my seniorsemester, which will be next
semester, so I would graduate inDecember, and I decided to go
into biology basically because Iknew I loved science, I was good
at it, and grew up on a farm, soI really liked biology-centered
stuff.
Didn't really know which pathwayI wanted to go on, and I wasn't
(03:45):
sure if I wanted to be aveterinarian or biologist or um
medicine, but I was more gearedto medicine and I have done all
of that pre-rex and now I'm herein Dr.
Williams' lab doing researchwith him, which has been really
fun.
SPEAKER_02 (04:00):
So, what is the research project you're working
on with Dr.
Williams?
SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Aaron Powell So I actually do two.
One is working withmacroinvertebrates, which is
just a fancy word for waterbugs.
Well, the ones I do are waterbugs.
Also, I help out on a graduatestudent's project right now that
works with invasive Australianred claw crayfish.
So I do kind of both of those.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Before we get too fancy into all this research
stuff, we want to talk a littlebit about what do you teach?
What are the typical coursesthat a student will take who
wants to be a biology major?
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
I'm the department chair, so I don't teach as much
as I used to.
The main course I teach forundergraduates is biogeography.
That's where I first met MJ, itwas last fall.
And biogeography is an electivecourse in biology.
I've also taught ecology.
I have taught aquatic biology.
Those were the main courses thatI taught.
I've taught freshman biology.
And then I, for fun a few yearsago, the Board of Regents, they
(04:54):
changed up the core curriculum.
One of the things that came outof it was the course Biology and
Popular Culture.
It's a class I teach for honorstudents.
It is for non-biology majors,non-STEM majors.
So it we cover the biologicalconcepts, but we try to put it
into the popular cultureconstruct.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Aaron Ross Powell So you study about what zombies and
we've done a little bit ofzombies.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Virulent diseases or we've read the Lorax, a variety
of different media.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
So if a student's coming from high school, what
would they take?
What would they study theirfirst year as a biology major?
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Aaron Ross Powell So with a first year as a biology
major, you really concentratedin science.
You're going to take biology oneand two, chemistry one and two,
and math.
Mostly that.
Because we require calculus.
So most students takepre-calculus and calculus.
That's most of your first year.
It's not like a junior collegefor some degrees where you do a
lot of basics in your firstyear.
You don't have much room in yourfirst year because it's
(05:47):
important to get those coursesin and stem because they're they
sequence.
So for example, for chemistry,we require biochemistry, which
means you have to take chemistryone, chemistry two, organic one,
organic two, then biochemistry.
So you have five semesters ofchemistry and they have to be
sequenced that way.
So if you get off one semester,it can throw your whole degree
plan off.
SPEAKER_02 (06:07):
MJ, have you found that that's an important thing
is staying in lockstep with thatsequencing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Oh yeah.
And it saved me a lot of issuesdown the road because I did
that.
I went ahead and got those outof the way.
But you do see students thatcome in and maybe they took some
dual credit or something alongthose lines in high school and
coming in is kind of weird.
It's splotchy for them.
And I was really lucky to nothave that problem.
SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
Aaron Powell So sometimes the dual credit
courses that they take in highschool are out of the sequence?
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Dual credit's fine.
I mean I don't have a problemwith dual credit if it's done
well.
I've seen it done really well.
The problem you often get, acouple of problems.
One, sometimes students are justnot ready yet for college at 16
years old, especially in STEMand math areas.
So parts of the brain haven'tquite developed enough
potentially.
And I've had students come witha lot of dual credit with a
(06:58):
really low GPA telling me theywant to get into medical school.
And it's heartbreaking to haveto tell them you've got 60 hours
and you have a 2.0, you onlyhave 60 more hours to get to a
3.5, you're gonna have to makean A in every single class that
you take from now on.
A lot of kids aren't old enoughto understand the ramifications
of the grades that they're gonnamake and how those college
(07:18):
grades are gonna carry on withthem for potentially the rest of
their career.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Aaron Powell So your advice for someone who's really
a serious science student tothink about holding off on
taking some of their sciencewhen they get to the four-year
college.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
Yeah, and and don't burn up all of your core classes
either, because it's nice tohave a core class to pad those
semesters where you have a lotof hard science classes with
labs.
The problem we often see whenstudents come in core complete
or from a junior college is thatI have to tell them all you have
left to take is science classeswith labs, pretty much.
I mean school a lot because labsare three hours for one credit.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
That's right.
So a regular biology class is abiology class with lecture and
conversation and plus threehours of lab a week.
So that's a heavy duty.
Now, when you graduate with abiology degree, do you have more
than the usual 120 hours?
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
No, you can do it in 120 if you follow the plan, but
students often deviate.
You know, the other problem yousee with dual credit is a lot of
self-advising.
And that is a problem for ourown undergraduates, little yet a
high school student.
And so one common mistake thatstudents make is they'll take
anatomy and physiology.
The sophomore level course, it'spretty common for dual credit.
(08:32):
That is a course is specific fornursing majors.
We don't accept it in biology.
It doesn't count for credit.
It's a non-majors course for us.
We teach it and our students cantake it, but it doesn't count
towards the degree.
And so that's eight hours ofcourses, you know, two
three-hour lectures and then twolabs.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
If I'm understanding you right, then a person who
wants to be a doctor, a vet, apharmacist, a dentist needs to
be thinking very carefully aboutwhat they take before they get
to the four-year college and beaware that the level of
difficulty that apre-professional degree is
(09:09):
looking for is way on up there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
And we don't offer labs online.
All of our labs areface-to-face.
I'm a fisheries biologist.
I I can't I I mean I could takeYouTube videos of myself
sampling in a stream, but that'snot the same thing as holding
the fish in your hand andidentifying it.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Well, yesterday I was walking down in front of the
building here and I saw two ofyour students wearing rubber
boots and carrying some sort ofbig old cages of some sort of
stuff.
So what are you gonna go out andtrap today?
Snakes, they said.
And I went, oh boy.
Who teaches her patology thesedays?
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
My wife, Marsha.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
Okay.
How do you teach a biologyclass?
What goes on in a biology class?
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
You know, every person does it a little bit
differently.
We're all very hands-on, firstof all, in biology.
You kind of have to be in thesciences.
But lecture styles are differentby people.
You know, my wife puts a lot ofslides up and is real clear
about what her expectations are.
I have another professor that'sa bit more Socratic, so he
expects that students are goingto have read the assignment
(10:10):
before they come to class, andhe wants to have discussions in
class, and they should havealready read the material.
I kind of teach by tellingstories.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
And the stories are fun, aren't they?
What's it like to be in class?
What what's the day like for astudent in biology?
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
Well, it really varies because like Dr.
Linz was saying was that likeevery professor in the biology
department is going to teachdifferently.
So, you know, you can go to oneclass where Dr.
Williams has his shoes off, iswalking on a table telling some
story of how this is relevantand it's fun and you know, a
little different.
And then, like you said, you canswitch over to microbiology,
(10:46):
which is a really traditional,you know, slides-on, taking
notes type of class.
So it varies, but overall, beready to take notes.
That's something huge inbiology.
When you get in the upper levelbiology courses, I've gotten to
where I'd actually rather typemy notes.
It's a little bit faster for me,and we cover a lot of content
very quick.
(11:07):
Even in Dr.
Williams' class, even in Dr.
Yu, who teaches microbiology,and in any of those, it's a
little bit easier.
But when I took Gen Bio, I didtake really good notes and I
wrote them down.
I just realized my energy wasbetter put to typing rather than
writing everything after I gotto a certain point.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting that researchers on
how we learn have said that thetaking of notes by hand rather
than typing them tends to giveyou a little bit more depth of
exposure to the ideas becauseyou can't write as fast as you
can type.
You have to sort through andkind of think about it a little
bit more.
And so there's a little bitdeeper level of processing.
But anyway, it's a little thingI like to mention is that
(11:48):
note-taking is a reallyimportant skill.
What do you like about a classin biology, MJ?
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
Oh, well, I just like real things.
Like I love to learn aboutliving things.
I think most of my favoriteclasses, if they have anything
to do with evolution, I love toknow why things are the way they
are.
And in biology, almost everyclass you talk about is gonna
have some aspect of evolution init.
I like applicable things.
It's very applicable becauseit's so relatable.
(12:16):
It's just you walk outside,there's biology.
That's why I like it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
I've got to tell our audience that this young woman
is beaming as she's saying this,and that I just looked over at
her teacher and her teacher'sgrinning too.
So it it is a joyful study,isn't it?
Dr.
Williams, tell us a little bitabout the skills that a student
in the sciences needs to have.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
So lab skills are incredibly important.
That's also why online labs area bad idea, because those skills
build, right?
So you're learning to pipet,you're learning to do those
things in general biology.
Then when you get into cellbiology and genetics, we're
going to expect that you knowhow to pipet, and you're gonna
have to learn to identifyorganisms.
A lot of what MJ is doing in mylab is identifying little bitty
caddysfly larvae.
(12:57):
And it takes tremendous skill,detail to be able to do that, to
count hairs on the legs of atiny insect larvae.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
And you do that under a microscope, I assume?
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, to an extent, youcan look at them.
They're all very differentcolors, all kinds of stuff going
on with them.
But yeah, for the actualidentification, it's very
tedious.
It's looking under a microscope,having a headache all day, you
know, that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (13:22):
So it's not always just really fun playing with
living things.
Sometimes it's a little slow andtedious, huh?
SPEAKER_01 (13:27):
Yeah.
The field work's a lot of fun.
You're gonna go out and get thehands-on stuff, but most of I
would say the dirty work happensin the lab when you bring
everything back and you have toidentify it and you know, see
what's actually going on.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
So let's see, lab skills are important.
SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
We talked about note-taking.
That's incredibly important.
You know, as a physician, youneed to live a lot, we have a
lot of pre-med students, youneed to be able to listen to
your patients, take good notes,and understand and and be able
to process, think, and and youknow they want to know what's
wrong.
And so it takes a lot of skillto be able to diagnose some
condition that a person has.
(14:04):
It takes listening skills, ittakes writing skills, it takes
lab skills many times.
So it takes all the the skillsthat we teach are applicable to
whether you become a scientistor a medical doctor or a
dentist, you're gonna use all ofthose tedious skills.
You don't think cleaning teethis tedious?
It's very tedious to cleansomeone's teeth.
And the research is different.
You know, my research, I usuallydiscourage students, honestly,
(14:27):
at first from doing researchwith me because it's very hard.
I'm an aquatic biologist.
We are terrestrial animals.
So for us to sample things inwater is difficult, requires
expensive, heavy equipment.
The project MJ's working on, wehave to haul around traps.
We usually bring around ahundred traps.
These traps are pretty big, andwe have to bring them in a
trailer and loaded with tans ofsardines and hot dogs, and we
(14:49):
have to bait them, we have tocheck them.
It's long days.
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
Do you have ideas about what you want to do
professionally, MJ?
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
Oh yeah.
I I've thought about it a while,and I know going into my last
semester, which is nextsemester, I've narrowed it down.
I'm going to go ahead and get amaster's degree in something to
do with biology.
I kind of had a feeling that Iwould want to do that no matter
where my life went way on in thefuture.
SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
You're not done yet, right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Yeah, I'm not done yet.
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
You're in your almost in your senior year and
you still want to keep going.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think like next step-wise,I'll do my master's degree.
I'm probably going to be goingsomewhere else.
Not sure yet.
I have, you know, been reachingout, doing the normal preparing
for finding a grad school to goto.
And then after that, I don'tknow what I want to do for sure.
I might go ahead and get my PhD.
(15:40):
I might go to medical school.
I'm not sure yet.
And you know, we are in a busyworld that tells you you should
know what you want to do veryquickly, but I don't.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
I just Well, I will just tell you that's okay.
You know, most of us at like Dr.
Williams and I will tell youthat that's part of the joy of
going to college is finding outwhat you care about and not
being sure.
I think it's important, as yousaid, to plan your studies
carefully.
So if you do plan to go tomedical school, you've got the
courses in the right sequenceand you got the grade point
(16:09):
average necessary.
But you sound like you're aperson who's very intellectually
engaged in what you do and youfind it interesting.
I'm sure Dr.
Williams says the same thing toyou that I'm gonna say is just
keep on enjoying the studies andfollow what your brain and your
heart tell you about it.
It's a terrible thing to get outwith a degree and having to do a
(16:29):
job that you don't really enjoy.
You know?
I mean look at this guy, howmuch fun does he have?
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
I have a funny story how MJ came to work for me.
So I was in biogeography lastyear, and I do my usual spiel
where I say you should getinvolved in research, which I
feel very strongly about.
Any undergraduate you should getinvolved in research, but I
usually say you probably don'twant to do research with me
because it's very hard, requiresa lot of heavy lifting, long,
tedious days in the field,walking around in swamps.
(16:57):
In waiters with alligators, andyou know, not for everybody.
MJ came up after class and shesaid, I grew up on a farm and I
broke horses.
I think I could work for you.
And I said, Okay, why don't youvolunteer in my lab?
And see if you like it.
And see if you like it.
And so she volunteered in mylab, worked with another
undergrad that had been workingwith me for about a year.
(17:18):
I was secretly asking my otherstudent, so what do you think of
MJ?
How's she working out?
Does she look like she's gonnado a good job?
And then she was into my class,I really didn't know her that
well.
And so I was waiting to get thefirst exam to see how she did on
my first exam.
She asked me about a paidposition, and I kind of put her
off for a little bit, and and Ihanded back the exams and I
(17:41):
said, You want a job paid?
She said, Well, are you waitingon my test?
And I said, Yes, I was.
So that is a true story.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
I did know that I kind of had a feeling, I don't
know why, anyways, like, youknow, you want to impress the
person that you are kind ofworking for, volunteering for,
and I'm taking his class.
So I wanted to like do good onmy first exam, but then I handed
it to him and he he startedlooking at it like really
intensely from the beginning,and I was like, I know what he
was doing.
Apparently he liked what he saw.
(18:10):
Well, I hope so.
It seems like it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
So do you have students launch their own
research projects or are theyalways under a professor?
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
It's very rare does it happen that a student they
usually don't have thebackground to know where to do
the research, and it takesfunding in the sciences to do
research.
And so usually it's with aprofessor, sometimes we'll pair
them with a graduate student.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
Aaron Powell Would you explain to the audience
about this funding with grants?
Because a lot of folks don'trealize how much you have to
work just to get outsidefunding, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
You know, when you take a job as a professor, your
university will invest a littlebit of money in you to get you
started.
But the expectation in thesciences that you're going to
bring in grants to bring in moreequipment and to bring in
students.
So in the sciences, a lot of ourgraduate students that are
working on their thesis, theyhave to get paid.
They have to be able to make aliving.
So we have to have salary forgraduate students.
(19:04):
We need help fromundergraduates, and I like to be
able to pay them as well.
And then it takes money totravel.
You know, if we're going toBrownsville and we go for three
days and we have to get hotelsand we have to eat all our
meals, it takes grant money todo that.
I mean, I you could do it onyour own, but I'd go broke
really fast if I self-funded myown research.
And the university doesn't fundus for research really.
(19:25):
You know, there are small awardsthat you can apply for that are
competitive, but those are oftenearmarked for new faculty
members.
And as you said, I've been herea while.
I don't want to compete with newprofessors for those kinds of
funds because they need themmore than I do.
So I have to rely on externalsources of funding.
So I'm all the time writinggrants.
So we don't just teach asprofessors.
I do a lot of grant writing.
(19:47):
I write a lot of papers,manuscripts.
If you don't turn that researchinto papers that are published
or go present at conferences,then people aren't gonna know
who you are.
So when you apply for grants,they're not going to look as
kindly on it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
I'm really glad you're explaining that because a
lot of folks think all we do ascollege professors we just go
in, we teach our classes, and wego home, and what a cushy job,
you know.
We don't work in the summers andand yet what do you do in the
summers?
You're spending all your time inthe field.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
I work all summer, always have.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
And then the job it takes to write grants, it's a
lot of trouble, I know.
What's an example of a grant yourecently got just to kind of put
some dollars and cents in thegrant that MJ's working on was
funded by Texas Parks andWildlife.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
So the grants from Texas Parks and Wildlife usually
are in the$50,000 to$150,000range.
It varies depending on whatyou're going to do, how much
travel there is, how complicatedit is, how many years the study
goes.
The larger grant that I have ispart of a multi-state grant
funded by the USDA to look atthe ecosystem of these wetlands.
Our portion of that is aroundhalf a million dollars.
(20:50):
There are federal programs toconstruct wetlands for habitat.
But what often happens with alot of these kinds of situations
is they construct them, but noone ever goes back to evaluate
are they doing what they weresupposed to do?
Are they functioning the waythey were supposed to function?
SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
Now what do you mean by a constructed habitat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:09):
It's like an old agricultural field that they'll
dig out and literally pipe waterinto.
So that you have a wetland forSo waterfowl for amphibian
breeding.
So a lot of these wetlands, whathappens is you don't often don't
have fish in wetlands becausethey dry down and and fill back
up.
So what happens when they fillup in the spring this time of
year they're filling up.
(21:30):
And the aquatic insects arebreeding in them and the
amphibians are breeding rightnow.
We're going to go do somewetland sampling, and one of the
things we'll do is nighttimefrog call surveys.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
Frog call surveys.
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
Yeah.
The frogs breed at night.
And so we go out at night and wehave to learn to identify them
by call.
But we can hear the calls and wecan estimate how many there are
calling, and uh that's one ofthe things that we do.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Aaron Powell And so when you find out how many frogs
are there on an April night,what does that do?
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Aaron Ross Powell Well, we're also looking at
natural wetlands at the sametime.
Ones that have been a wetlandfor a long time.
Think of Caddo Lake.
That's a really big one.
But you know, there are naturalwetlands that have always been
wetlands or have been for a longtime.
Some of these constructedwetlands are only 20 years old,
10 years old, and so we don'tknow how long it takes for them
to mature to where the frogs arebreeding in them.
Some of the salamanders, forexample, from our study so far,
(22:18):
it has to be a pretty maturewetland or a natural wetland to
start to get some of theamphibians like sirens and
amphiuma because they'reobligate aquatic.
So when the wetland starts todry down, they have to be able
to bury in the mud.
And so if it goes completely dryand it's really dry for a long
period of time, they may notsurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Wow.
Wow.
Tell me a little bit aboutwhat's the worst thing about
being a biology major besidescarrying heavy stuff in the hot
sun?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
It's a lot to manage.
Even though you're taking, youknow, let's say on average 120
credit hours, you're gonna be atschool maybe two to three times
a week from 8 a.m.
to five p.m.
because you have labs.
Labs are three hours typically,sometimes four, and they're
gonna consist of just workingthroughout the entire time doing
(23:06):
an experiment.
It's really tiring, and withthat kind of coursework, it
requires a lot more timemanagement because let's say on
you know, a max two to threeclasses a day, and then you're
gonna go to a lab from 2 p.m.
typically till five p.m.
and then you have to go home ormaybe for some students work,
(23:28):
and then you're gonna go homeand do all the homework, all the
writing the lab report.
Let's say you're in a class,they expect you to read ahead,
you know, reading ahead beforethe day before.
It's a lot of time managementand it can get overwhelming for
a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
You know, this is one of the biggest um messages
we've wanted to get out tostudents out there who are, you
know, aspiring to go to college,is that it looks like you don't
have as much to do because youmaybe have four or five classes
and they only meet two or threetimes a week.
But it's all the other work youdo to get ready for those
classes.
It's the studying, it's the labwork, it's the writing it up.
(24:05):
And so we provide that time, butlike you said, it's a crunch.
It's a lot of work, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
It's a lot of work, and I have to say I'm not
perfect at it either.
Everybody who comes in, it'swhere you're going to be good at
time management.
It's a learning process, andthat's why in any STEM field is
like it's a very importantfactor of just taking a step
back, breathing, organizing.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
I'm struck, because you know, of course I teach in
the humanities side of theCollege of Arts and Sciences,
that there's a lot moreflexibility, I think, for us in
what we can take in the order wehave to take it.
We don't have to put it, youknow, chem one, chem two.
And I think that you're rightthat students need to know about
that ahead of time andunderstand that self-advising
(24:53):
isn't very smart advising.
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
It's not.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
MJ, we've already talked a little bit about what
made you want to be a biologymajor and how you knew you were
a good fit.
Do you have any kind of finaladvice maybe for someone who's
trying to figure out wherethey're gonna go in college and
maybe they're interested in thesciences, but they want to make
sure that they're a good fit forthe program?
SPEAKER_01 (25:14):
Aaron Powell Well, I think there's a lot of different
ways I could answer that becauseit it's so different for maybe
everyone, you know, going into adifferent field.
But I'm gonna kind of hone in onbiology specifically or maybe
the sciences, like chemistry,biochemistry, biology, where as
I can speak more towards andwhat I've experienced in my life
is just like I was telling Dr.
(25:34):
Ross, that first semester youcome in, if you're going to
maybe in your first year, it's alot of growing pain.
And that's okay.
If at any point, you know, it'snot going your way, it's okay to
look around you and notice thatevery single person in that room
is probably struggling andwanting to pull their hair out
(25:54):
too.
And that took me a while to justbreathe and say, okay.
Especially I'm very type-basedstudent.
I was pre-med, I wanted the goodGPA, and I wanted to be perfect.
And I realized that, oh, I'mgonna get a B in my chemistry
classes.
And that was a big hit.
And it's not just me, it's mostof the people around you.
(26:15):
So I think that would be mybiggest advice is it's okay to
get a B in a chemistry class.
It's okay to get a B in a hardbiology class, even if you're a
biology person, there's so manylevels to things to say, you
know, it's okay to yourselfabout that.
And then, you know, timemanagement is huge.
And making sure that outside ofschool you have something that
(26:37):
you're doing that is not justchemistry and biology and math
classes.
I feel like I'm pretty goodabout making sure I take breaks.
Go on a run or, you know, gowatch a movie.
Any college person needs to knowit's okay to take a break,
especially if you're a studentlike me.
I worked all throughout college,always had a job, maybe one or
(26:58):
two, and it gets to be a lot.
So just making sure that youtake time for yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (27:04):
So have you been able to schedule your courses
around your work or your workaround your courses?
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
That's the nice thing about working on campus.
You can work around yourcourses.
They are never gonna tell you,you can't do that.
Any department, you tell them,you know, I have class at this
time, I need to go home, I needto do this for an exam.
They're going to be lenient withyou, they're gonna be
understanding.
That's something I'll alwaysstress to people when they come,
(27:31):
you know, find a job on campusis great if that if that works
for you because they'll be somuch more flexible.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
We understand.
Ashley is is being paid to helpme with this job, and every now
and then we have to say, it'stime to go work on your big
project for MassCom class,Ashley.
It's okay.
And she gets her hours in atanother time.
So, Ashley, yeah, I think youhad a question you wanted to
throw at Dr.
Williams too, didn't you?
SPEAKER_03 (27:53):
Aaron Powell I did.
And it's kind of the samequestion, but from the
professor's angle.
So let's say someone's coming upon maybe going into a master's
program or graduating, andthey're thinking about what kind
of jobs they want to have.
We've already talked a lot aboutlife as a biology professor, but
how would someone maybe get toknow whether or not this is a
(28:17):
kind of career that they want tobuild towards?
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
Getting involved as an undergraduate is very helpful
in research because you'll likeor dislike something very
quickly if you you know if youget into it and you don't like
it, you can switch.
You know, volunteer if you wantto be a medical doctor, make
sure you know what that lookslike because that's also a very
stressful job.
It's not what it looks like onTV.
You have sometimes have thestress of owning your own
business.
I don't teach students how torun a business.
(28:42):
And often as a physician or adentist, you're running a
business.
You have employees that dependon you and their families depend
on you.
So there's a lot more to thinkabout in careers to make sure
that you want to do that.
I have pre-vet students.
I love pre-vet students.
I've put a lot of students intovet schools successfully all
around the country and that haveworked for me.
But I often tell them make sureyou spend some time in a vet or
(29:05):
work at a vet's office becauseit's not just taking care of
animals.
You have to deal with people.
And sometimes those people arenot nice to animals.
And you're gonna see a lot ofugly stuff as a veterinarian,
and you've got to have a thickskin and a and a stomach for it.
And a lot of people aren'tprepared for that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
I know that the medical students now at our
school of medicine have startedexperiencing the issues of
family systems and how a familycontributes or does not
contribute to the health oftheir patient, and they realize
they have to deal with much morethan just the symptoms of the
patient.
That there's so much more goingon in the family system.
(29:42):
So that's a that's a wise bit ofadvice.
But is there any last bit ofinformation you want to share
with them or wisdom or advice sothat they might be able to make
good decisions about perhapscoming into your field?
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
I think that taking it slow is okay.
If you don't know for sure whatyou want.
Actually, some of my favoriteclasses I've taken were over in
the English department.
So I think it's great to exploreother areas.
I also think, like Dr.
Williams said, do not be afraidto go to your professor your
first semester here, especiallyif you are in these sciences and
(30:16):
say, How can I get involved?
It's very intimidating forstudents to come in, especially
you're going to be in a hugebiology class if you're taking
gen bio.
And all of these students arecoming from different areas.
You're going to have all kinds,uh, kinesiology, biology,
chemistry, biochemistry, youknow, and then other random
(30:38):
people who are in there for somereason.
And with that being said, it isjust overwhelming.
And you might be intimidated togo to a professor and say, I
don't know what I want to do.
Research sounds cool, or evenjust going to their office hours
and chatting with them.
Do not be intimidated to dothat.
Do not be intimidated to do thatyour first semester, because I
wish I would have done thatsooner.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
So, Dr.
Williams, do you have any lastthings to say about biology or
your department?
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
MJ said exactly what I was going to say, actually.
Get to know your professors.
So I'm going to have about 70students in my biogeography
class this fall.
I will get to know a handful ofthem very well.
I'll know everyone's name, thepeople that sit in the back.
I'll probably forget your namenext semester if you never talk
to me.
(31:25):
So, you know, it's the personthat sits in the front that
engages with me, that comes tomy office and talks and is, you
know, that's the person I'mgonna get to know.
Those are the people that aregonna get jobs in my lab.
That's how it works.
If you sit in the back and younever engage with your faculty
members, do you gonna not havethe same college experience?
SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
And so it's up to you to do it.
I completely agree.
And something else to add tothat, you know, after biology,
and m most people in biologywant to go to some form of
graduate school.
You need those recommendationletters.
And for me personally, I don'tfeel comfortable asking
professors that I maybe tooktheir class and good, you know,
did a good job in there.
(32:02):
But you want them to be able tosay, me and this student, you
know, had plentiful andimportant conversations that
were meaningful, and you know,not only did they do well in my
class, but I can say havinginteractions with them that they
were a delight to have in myclass.
And I think that's importanttoo.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Yeah, teachers love to have students that are
engaged and care.
It only enhances everybody'sexperience when you come out of
yourself and and engage in thatway.
So I'm so glad you said that.
So I think we've about finishedup, but anything last questions
or comments from you, Ashley?
SPEAKER_03 (32:39):
Nothing really, just a usual reminder to anybody who
might listen to this after thefact and is curious about coming
into college or about biology asa field.
You can always leave us aquestion and the comment section
of the YouTube video or send usan email.
SPEAKER_02 (32:55):
And if we can't answer it, we're gonna go after
Dr.
Williams and MJ and ask them toanswer it because I know they're
eager to help you all understandwhat a great field biology is.
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