February 10, 2025 • 48 mins
Is there a way to tackle PTSD and depression beyond the confines of traditional treatment? What if you are seeking a stronger connectedness and spiritual growth in your life? Join us as we sit down with Neil Markey, the co-founder and CEO of Beckley Retreats, who shares his personal journey from a small town in Maryland to the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. Neil opens up about his struggles with mental health and how a profound shift towards meditation and psychedelics helped him find a new path to healing. Through his story, we uncover the limitations of conventional treatments and the vital need to explore alternative, holistic therapies in mental health care.
Neil takes us through his transformative journey from the corporate world to a life centered around wellness and spiritual growth. Stress and misalignment with personal values led to health challenges, but by creating space for new opportunities, Neil found a renewed sense of purpose and happiness. We examine how aligning with one's true values can bring about significant improvements in well-being, exploring the profound interconnectedness of human experiences and the spiritual components that often accompany them.
With a focus on the role of immersive retreat centers, Neil highlights the transformative impact of safe and thoughtfully structured psychedelic experiences. By embracing new adventures and making intentional efforts to sustain change, participants can strengthen community bonds and foster personal growth. We delve into the synergy between meditation and psychedelic experiences, revealing how these retreats can enhance adherence to meditation practices, ultimately benefiting sleep, blood pressure, and overall well-being. Listen in to discover the wisdom and openness that older participants bring to these journeys and the inspiring stories of transformation that unfold in these unique settings.
You can find Neil Markey and Beckley Retreats at:
https://www.beckleyretreats.com/
https://www.instagram.com/beckleyretreats/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/beckley-retreats/posts/?feedView=all
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michele Folan (00:04):
Health, wellness, fitness and everything in
between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
One thing I always aim to do isbring our audience a wide
(00:24):
variety of topics in the healthand wellness arena.
Sometimes we have guests on theshow that may challenge the
status quo or medical norms towhich we're accustomed, but I
believe that when we aresearching for answers when it
comes to our health and thehealth of our families, it's
important to know and understandall the options.
We are not one size fits alland certainly important to know
(00:45):
and understand all the options.
We are not one-size-fits-alland certainly, as medical
science and innovation evolves,there may be an opportunity to
explore alternatives that aresafe and proven over time.
Neil Markey is the co-founderand CEO of Beckley Retreats, the
world's only psychedelicsretreat program, backed by 25
years of scientific research andan ecosystem of expertise that
(01:08):
honors global wisdom traditions.
A former captain in the US ArmySpecial Operations 2nd Ranger
Battalion, neil served in Iraqand Afghanistan before studying
at Columbia University, where hestruggled with depression and
PTSD.
This led him to exploremindfulness and psychedelics as
(01:28):
part of his healing journey.
Prior to Beckley.
He was chief growth officer fora $450 million private equity
portfolio company and aconsultant at McKinsey and
Company.
Neil Markey, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Neil Markey (01:44):
Thank you for having me.
Michele Folan (01:45):
Yeah, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.
We chatted for a couple minutesbefore we got started, but I'd
love for you, Neil, to tell theaudience a little bit more about
where you're from, where yourroots are.
And then I want to hear moreabout your stint in the Army and
all that good stuff too.
Neil Markey (02:04):
Sure.
Well, I grew up in a small townabout an hour north of
Washington DC called Frederick,Maryland, and my whole family is
still there.
Actually, on my dad's side wecan trace back.
They've been there for 300years, so we're deep in
Frederick and it certainly feelslike home.
And then I was studying math atUniversity of Maryland and then
(02:29):
September 11th happened and Iwanted to go help.
I thought I was doing the rightthing, so I joined the officer
program you could actually seethe smoke from the top of the
Pentagon or from the top of thefootball stadium at the Pentagon
and it was a huge day in mylife, like it was for many.
And I finished school and wentin as a lieutenant and I believe
(02:55):
that whole weapons of massdestruction narrative that we
ended up getting pretty wildlywrong.
Unfortunately, by that time Ihad already made the commitment
and ended up in Iraq as alieutenant leading an infantry
platoon and then got a chance togo try out for the Ranger
Regiment, which is a smallspecial operations unit, and
(03:15):
when I was there I was more onthe planning side, so I was a
bit removed from the you knowthe worst of it, but it still
left some marks for sure.
And I mean, now looking back,everybody in that unit had some
form of PTSD.
I mean, these are the guys thatwere doing the night raids.
So it was wildly intense andalthough part of me loved it and
(03:38):
was so fortunate to be there, Ireally looked up to those guys
and I mean, leroy Petrie got themedal of honor when I was there
and his locker was right nextto mine.
It was larger than life and itwas wildly traumatic.
It was horrible.
And I got out in 2012 and wentto graduate school and, by some
(03:59):
measures, was doing well I wasputting one foot in front of the
other but by some othermeasures I was really struggling
.
I was starting to isolate andhaving trouble sleeping and
severe anxiety and anger, and Itried quite a few different
traditional interventions,different medications and
sleeping pills and didn't have awhole lot of luck.
(04:22):
And then was introduced tomeditation while I was a grad
student and meditation wasexactly what I needed and I
started practicing that andlearning more about other
interventions that weren't justthe establishment and then I had
the chance to have someprofessionally facilitated
psychedelic experiences.
There's a long history ofveterans, particularly the
(04:45):
special operations community,getting access to these
treatments on the underground inthe United States and in
Central and South America and Iwas fortunate to have some of
those and for me it was profound.
It was a real opportunity toreset.
Now it wasn't one and done, butit was the beginning of a kind
(05:06):
of a new path and learning a newway to live.
So that's kind of how I gotinto this work over 10 years ago
now.
Michele Folan (05:13):
So yeah, because I was going to make the
assumption that the VA wasn'toffering you these types of
medications.
Right, and I'll call themmedications.
Neil Markey (05:22):
But no, they weren't.
But the VA just put in theirstrategic plan for the first
time last year to research thesecompounds.
So it's happening.
I'm encouraged, okay, and theVA has got a big hairy mission.
It's a hard mission.
(05:43):
So I think they're doing apretty good job.
But the reality is is the drugcompanies have a lot of
influence in this whole system,in the VA and in the established
medical system, and theincentives are what they are and
they drive a certain type ofbehavior because there's money
to be made.
It's just the reality of wherewe are.
So the reason you don't see alot of people get prescribed
(06:06):
healthy diet and exercise andmeditation and time in nature is
there's just not a lot of moneyto be made in that, so it's
just not going to be top of thepriority list.
Michele Folan (06:16):
You don't have to get me started on this, because
you're speaking my language andI came from the pharmaceutical
industry.
I spent years there, I left andnow really just what I'm seeing
now kind of transpaceuticalsand more natural modalities to
treat people because it's notbeing made available to people
(06:51):
and I think that's such atravesty.
One other thing, neil is and Idon't know if this is cliche,
but thank you for your service.
Appreciate that very much, thattime that you spent honoring
your service to the country.
So thank you for that.
Neil Markey (07:06):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, it was my path, you know,and I'm so fortunate for it.
Michele Folan (07:12):
Thank, you, yeah Well, even as hard as it was,
and your life afterwards andcoming out of that, it's who you
are today and you wouldn't havepursued this path of helping
others, right?
And so it's that double-edgedthing that you've got.
But I do want to ask you so,when you got introduced into the
(07:37):
world of psychedelics, are wetalking psilocybin?
Am I saying that right?
Neil Markey (07:42):
Yeah, psilocybin Okay.
Michele Folan (07:44):
Mushrooms, Mushrooms.
Okay, Will you explain that alittle bit what those compounds
look like?
Neil Markey (07:59):
Yeah, there's a bunch of different types of
fungus or mushrooms and acertain percentage of them have
a psychoactive compound in themcalled psilocybin a psychoactive
compound in them calledpsilocybin and when you take it
in a large enough dose it makesyou hallucinate or trip or be
high.
And if you do these experiencesin a controlled manner, it
(08:19):
looks like you can actually geta lot out of them in terms of
letting things go and developinga new perspective, and it looks
like they have some prettydirect impact on the central
nervous system and sort ofletting things kind of rewire.
If you look at what happens inthe brain under an fMRI when
people are on psilocybin at highdoses, it allows parts of the
brain to connect that maybe havenever connected before or have
lost connection, so the brainlights up in ways and so it's
(08:43):
really fascinating.
But it looks like there's quitea broad array of potential use
cases.
So they could be used on theclinical end of the spectrum as
a way to kind of get someonethat is, you know, dealing with
PTSD, treatment-resistantdepression, things like this, to
kind of get them up to betterand well.
(09:05):
Kind of get them up to betterand well, and then it looks like
you can take people that aregenerally well and give them
these experiences controlledenvironment and they can kind of
move up the ladder.
They can develop higher levelsof empathy, this sense of awe,
creativity, cognitive function.
It looks like they'reneuroregenerative, so they're
healthy for the brain, so longas if they're done in the right
way.
And I should also mention toothat they are very different
(09:29):
than our typical pharmaceutical,so to use them optimally it
requires kind of some awarenessand buy-in from the user.
So you can't just takemushrooms.
I mean you can, but if you justtake mushrooms like you would
take a drug your doctor gave youand went on about your day,
that's the wrong approach.
(09:50):
So there's a realintentionality that's required
with these to get something outof them or to at least optimize
the experience.
It's quite different than whatwe're used to as Americans.
Michele Folan (10:00):
Okay, so I have to say, the only real knowledge
I have had of this process is doyou remember and I don't know
how long ago this was butChelsea Handler?
Neil Markey (10:15):
Yes.
Michele Folan (10:16):
Okay, she and I guess it was like a shaman, it
was like the sweat tent and thewhole deal and she had quite a
reaction to it.
And that's what I think of whenI think of going through that
process.
How close is that to what yousee in your experiences?
Neil Markey (10:37):
Yeah, so you can have these experiences in a
doctor's office, by yourself,with headphones on, you know, in
a clinical environment, and weas an organization are
supportive of people that do itin that way because for some
indications and desired outcomesand individuals, that's the
(10:58):
better entry point.
You can also go do theseexperiences in Peru, up the
river, a couple days, in themiddle of nowhere, in a very
traditional way.
We're kind of in the middle.
Nice experience.
(11:27):
But also bring in what we'velearned from how traditional
communities are doing this interms of the intentionality and
making it special and doing itin groups and having some
ceremony around it.
Because what we've seen, and Ithink that this world is
understanding, is thateverything that happens around
it the context, the set and thesetting that happens around it
(11:48):
the context, the set and thesetting, the who you're with,
the location you are, the whatled you up to it, the
preparation, how the experienceis facilitated, all the after,
the integration, the makingsense of the, integrating it
into your life that matters justas much, if not more, as the
actual compound does.
So we really think about it, aswe're running integrative
(12:11):
health programs that use theseexperiences as a way to kind of
accelerate positive change.
Michele Folan (12:16):
Yeah, what you're saying is it's the total
experience that you bring peoplein and it's very spiritual.
It sounds like.
Neil Markey (12:25):
There's definitely a spiritual component to it.
I think it's hard to deny that,you know.
But there's these phenomenathat are happening and it
becomes very clear when you havethese experiences that there's
something that is alive in usand there's a connection between
(12:46):
us and other human beings.
We can measure this in someways, but I don't think we have
the full understanding by anymeans.
But we know that we'reelectromagnetic beings and you
can pick up on my centralnervous system and I can pick up
on yours.
So there's all thisinterconnectedness between us
humans.
And then there's aninterconnectedness between us
and nature, living things.
(13:07):
Again, we can measure somepieces of that, but when you
have one of these experiencesbecomes very clear, not just
from like a rational okay, Iunderstand the mechanics but
like from an intuitive kind ofdeep knowingness.
And when that happens, thingsshift and we don't understand
all of what's happening, butit's quite significant.
(13:30):
You know many people comethrough and, um, well, I'll tell
you that we just were doing a2024 kind of uh, an assessment
of ourselves and things and 88%of our guests said it was the
most meaningful or one of themost meaningful experiences of
their life.
Wow, so something profound ishappening.
Yeah, that is.
(13:50):
That's quite fascinating.
Michele Folan (13:53):
I want to back up just a little bit.
So when you were at McKinseyand you were in the corporate
world, and during that time, Ithink is when you were
struggling to kind of pieceeverything together, and at what
point did you say thetraditional methods just aren't
helping me, when did you finallysay, okay, I got to do
(14:14):
something else.
Neil Markey (14:15):
Well, that was really when I got out of the
service and into grad school andI had this period where I
learned how to live differently.
I really got into meditation,where I learned how to live
differently.
I really got into meditation.
I stopped drinking.
I started a small business withmy brother when I was in grad
school and then, when I finishedschool, I did a teacher
certification in meditation andfor a period of time, was
(14:36):
teaching meditation and workingon this small business, and so I
had purposeful work.
I was living in my hometown, Ihad good community, I was
exercising, I was doing all myhometown.
I had good community, I wasexercising, I was doing all the
right things and all of mysymptoms were gone.
I felt inspired every day.
I was happy, I was optimistic.
You know all these positivefeelings that everybody wants.
(14:57):
What is clear to me now, withthe benefit of hindsight, was
when I went into the corporateworld, I lost my way a little
bit.
My well-being started to slip,and I think that was because
there was a bit of a mismatch interms of values and a mismatch
in terms of the work that I'msupposed to be doing as a small
(15:17):
kid from Frederick, maryland,and just what I want to be part
of in this world.
And I was in the corporate worldfor five years or so McKinsey
and then I was doing somerestructuring work with a
private equity company, and atthe tail end of that work I
remember realizing that some ofmy symptoms were coming back the
(15:40):
stress, the sleeplessness, therelationships are just a bit
more strained.
I was out of shape.
And then I was looking at a lotof my peers and many of them
were having similar symptoms andnone of them had been to war
and a lot of them had impressivedegrees and came from
(16:05):
well-to-do families and you know, they weren't exhibiting PTSD
symptoms, but they could bedoing a lot better if they were
taking better care of themselvesand they had all the resources.
It was just like an environmentthing and a kind of a value
alignment thing, and so I kindof had this valley and then
realization, and then went backdown and then hit another kind
(16:27):
of like little, maybe not a rockbottom, but a wake up where
it's like, hey, you need to livedifferently, like this path is
not for you.
And that's when I left, that'swhen I met Amanda Fielding and
then this whole Beckleyorganization, and now I think
I'm working on something that ison path for me.
Michele Folan (16:47):
Yeah, and back to the stress thing.
When we overload ourselves withstress, whether it's work, home
, whatever, sometimes I don'tthink we have an appreciation
for how much that affects ourphysical being.
Neil Markey (17:00):
Oh my God, yeah, it's very significant.
Michele Folan (17:03):
Yeah, and I think the other piece of that which I
love that you mentioned thatyou know, when you were in the
corporate world, you weren'tdoing what you were really meant
to be doing.
Neil Markey (17:14):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (17:15):
And, um, I had a similar epiphany about this time
last year and when I left, Ileft the corporate world and
it's scary when you make thatleap.
So I'm curious, when you leftyour rather cushy corporate job,
like what were you thinkingLike?
Were you scared?
Neil Markey (17:36):
Yeah, I think I had some anxiety around what was
next, but I just knew I wasn'tgoing to keep doing that, you
know, and um, and I got back toteaching meditation because I
had done that previously and Ikind of knew how to be well I
had been well before.
So I tried to remove thingsfrom my life and get back to the
(17:58):
basics and take good care ofmyself and get sunshine and
exercise and eat good, and I wasfortunate to be able to not
work for a bit of time and justallow things to kind of come
into my life, which I think nowif I talk to younger veterans
and it's like, if you can createspace, if you don't have space
in your mind and you don't havespace in your day or in your
(18:20):
life, it's hard for kind of newthings to sprout.
And so I think I was able tocreate some space after that
corporate world and get back todoing things that I kind of just
innately gravitated towards andthen through that, this really
significant opportunity for mepresented itself.
(18:40):
Okay, yeah.
Michele Folan (18:41):
When people come to you and Beckley, is there a
common theme with what they'retrying to achieve?
Neil Markey (18:48):
Yeah, there is.
They're seekers, you know, andthey've generally done really
well for themselves and havealready spent, you know, some
time on personal professionaldevelopment and they want to be
better fathers, sons, daughters,business partners.
They want to appreciate lifemore.
(19:10):
They want to.
They know it's moving fast andthey don't necessarily want to
slow down, but they want to makeit more meaningful, have more
depth, be more present, and sowe'll have people come down.
You know, our programs areexplicitly non-medical, so we
don't treat depression or ptsd.
If people have clinical levelindications, we try and point
(19:30):
them to facilities that are moreappropriate.
Ours are more for thebetterment of the well.
So it's people that aregenerally doing okay but want to
become more creative, moreempathetic, improve cognitive
function, develop some new,better habits, make some real
change, process loss.
So yeah, but there's thisseeker thread.
(19:55):
These are in some waysadventurers and people that this
is still a little.
It's not near as taboo as itwas a couple years ago, but it's
still a bit edgy for manypeople.
So it's a certain type ofindividual to try it.
Michele Folan (20:08):
I get that, I do, and you do have to be a little
bit more of an adventurous soulto kind of put yourself out
there to do this.
But to me, in a very simple wayto explain it, it kind of
cleans the pipes.
Neil Markey (20:28):
It cleans things out, for sure.
Michele Folan (20:30):
Yeah.
Neil Markey (20:30):
There's another metaphor that I like a lot.
It's if you think about like aski mountain and then skiers go
down at all day, then by the endof the day there's kind of ruts
, right, and you know everythingafter that.
You're basically going to goride in the ruts because you
can't go across them and whatthese experiences do is in some
ways it's like a fresh coat ofsnow.
(20:53):
And so then, if you'reintentional, you can lay new
routes down the mountain, youcan lay new thought patterns in,
you can lay new emotionalpatterns in so that when
stimulus comes into your lifeyou react differently or have a
space to be able to chooseinstead of this kind of
well-rooted pattern.
(21:14):
But if you don't do anythingaround the experience, then the
likelihood that you just kind oflike re-groove back into those
old paths is actually quite high, because they're deep and
they've been there for quitesome time.
Because they're deep andthey've been there for quite
some time.
So it takes this buy-in oreffort on the individual to kind
(21:34):
of like you have to do somethings around those experiences
to really make change that isgoing to stick for more than a
short period of time, if thatmakes sense.
Michele Folan (21:43):
Yeah, it does.
Hey, Neil, we're going to takea quick break and when we get
back I want to talk about kindof who your typical client is.
Are you feeling overwhelmed bythe changes that come with
midlife, struggling with weight,energy or finding time for
yourself?
You're not alone.
I get it because I've beenthere too.
(22:04):
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Together, we'll tackle thoseunique challenges, whether it's
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It's not just about diets.
(22:24):
It's about reclaiming yourstrength and confidence one step
at a time.
Check out the show notes ofthis episode and shoot me an
email.
I'd love to learn more aboutyou and your challenges.
All right, we are back.
When we first started recording, I told you that my audience is
(22:45):
typically 50 plus and yousmiled.
Why did you smile?
Neil Markey (22:54):
Just because it's been like a bit of a little
sweet surprise for our guests tobe older, and I don't know, I
just uh, I just love.
I love guests that are older.
They're just like better guests, they're just, they're just
more sure of themselves and andum, there's just like some
sweetness to me in it for somereason.
Michele Folan (23:08):
Yeah, I think from my maybe this is just my
perspective they kind of alreadyknow who they are, exactly
Right, and so they may be alittle more open to being into
the whole experience.
Yes, even though they're older,they may not have as much
baggage Like to try to like allthis stuff that they've got to
(23:29):
get through.
To be open to doing this, Iguess, is what I'm trying to say
.
Baggage is a bad word.
Neil Markey (23:35):
No, but it's something like that.
They're not holding on so tight, they're just like more free to
kind of allow and learn andyeah.
Michele Folan (23:45):
And you have couples that come and do this
together and you have couplesthat come and do this together,
definitely.
Neil Markey (23:50):
Yeah, I think that most of our guests I know I
don't think I know most of ourguests are individuals that come
down.
But I think, in some ways,coming with a friend or partner
or mother or daughter can bereally sweet because you have
this existing relationship, sothere's some trust and so that's
(24:16):
like a little bit of a lifeline.
But then you can kind of comein and you have the group
dynamic, which a bunch of peoplethat you are getting to know,
and then you have thatrelationship on the back and so,
yeah, that happens.
We have more.
You know, we have a lot ofpeople that come down, or even
small groups that'll come down.
We just are.
You have to ask a few morequestions, you have to kind of
make sure, which you don't wantand we've seen this, as you can
(24:37):
imagine, is like so-and-so willbe, like I just need to get my
husband Steve down and we'regoing to get him fixed, and then
we're going to be good.
Right, then we're going to begood and it's like so, if the
relationship has a lot ofturmoil or there's like a lot of
challenge, you just need to bemore careful and you need to
kind of let the individuals knowthe risks there.
(25:01):
But if the relationship'sgenerally healthy and both
people are coming down on theirown because they find it
exciting and they're curious andthey want to learn and have an
experience, and oh, by the way,we'll look at the dynamic
between us two because we'regoing to be together, then
that's perfect.
That's like a really beautifulscenario.
Michele Folan (25:22):
You know, given your military background, I
would imagine that safety isparamount for you.
So what does that look like?
What would it look like for meif I were to come down, and I
would want to go through thisexperience?
Neil Markey (25:38):
Yeah, it's one of the best compliments I've gotten
over the years that we'vegotten as an organization was
someone told us that it feltlike an extremely loving and
well-run military organization,because we just take it
seriously.
You know it's serious work andso you know we think about
(26:00):
safety kind of across the entireexperience for the guest, and
it really starts with thescreening.
So you need to make sure thatthe individual coming down
doesn't have anycontraindications or psychiatric
concerns or medical issues.
And so we do a questionnaireand then we do a call and we're
also looking just forsuitability.
(26:22):
Is this person at the rightplace in their personal
development to be a good fit forwhat we do, you know, and we
say no to a good chunk of peopleand try and point them in
directions that are moreappropriate.
And then there's thepreparation.
So we teach people the basicpractices, well-being skills to
(26:45):
help navigate these experiences,to get their body in a better
state when they have theseexperiences.
So we teach meditation andmindful movement and breathwork
exercises and give some thoughtson the right diet leading up to
the experience.
And then on site, the set andsetting is really important.
So we're on beautiful estates,we're away from everything.
(27:08):
It's just us and thefacilitation team.
I think we have some of the bestfacilitators in the world
because, frankly, we pay reallywell and I think our
facilitators really appreciateaffiliating with Amanda Fielding
and the Beckley Foundation, soit's good for their personal
brand.
So we've been able to be superselective around who we even
allow to have the honor ofholding these experiences and I
(27:31):
mean we have a really high barfor our facilitators.
And then the facilitator toguest ratio.
I think that's really important.
There's places that have hugenumbers of guests and it's more
just good luck.
You know we it's a, you knowgroup size is around 15.
And for that we'll have fivefacilitators plus a nurse, plus
(27:54):
sitters for the psilocybinsession, plus the facility staff
.
So it's like we have a lot ofpersonnel that are there to look
after them.
The dose is important, so allof our guests get a custom
amount based on a discussionbetween them and the senior
facilitator.
So we make sure that that'sappropriate.
Now it's within a defined range, which is what you would see in
(28:17):
clinical trials in the UnitedStates.
But that's tailored.
It's just really thoughtful toset in the setting and then on
the back end is the integrationthat I think you know I'm a bit
biased, obviously, but I thinkwe have one of, if not the most
thoughtful integration periodwhere we're taking people, you
(28:39):
know, from these experiencesback into real life and trying
to give them the tools that theyneed to help make behavior
change and giving them, you knowall the tools afterwards help
make behavior change and givingthem, you know, all the tools
afterwards so we really thinkabout it across the whole
spectrum.
And then, you know, we gathermetrics, so we get feedback from
our guests, we get feedbackfrom our facilitators, we assess
(28:59):
that.
That rolls into our planning.
We've made different changes toour programs to try, and you
know, be iterative and learn wejust things that you would
expect in a doctor's office or avery professionally run
organization.
We try and do that at a highlevel.
Now, for people to know,there's no governing bodies
around this right now.
(29:19):
So if you're going to go havethese experiences, it's good to
ask the questions, because it'son the centers and the
facilitators to policethemselves, right, and there are
amazing human beings out therethat are doing great work and
there are people that, frankly,should not be doing this work,
and so it's just, you know, it'sright now it's a bit buyer
(29:40):
beware Right, because there'snobody, that there's no central
organization that's ensuringstandards or anything.
Right now we're trying to setthe bar high.
Michele Folan (29:50):
I love everything that you're saying because it
sounds like you've you all havereally done your homework and
you continue to make theseimprovements as as you get
feedback and you and you workthese experiences.
How many years have you beendoing this now?
Neil Markey (30:05):
Beckley Retreats has been doing it for four years
.
Michele Folan (30:07):
Okay, four years and you are in two locations.
Neil Markey (30:12):
Jamaica and the Netherlands.
It's the two locations where wecan do this work in this way
completely legally and aboveboard.
That's another thing from asafety perspective that I think
is important.
There's places in the worldwhere you can do this where it's
legally gray, and then whathappens when things are legally
gray is some parts are not fullyabove board.
(30:36):
So for us in Jamaica, forinstance, mushroom production,
cultivation and sale iscompletely legal, so it's easier
to ensure kind of like thestandards and be able to test
and check and ask questions, andso we're hopeful that more
places are going to legalizethis type of work, but right now
(30:59):
we're pretty limited to Jamaicaand the Netherlands.
Michele Folan (31:02):
Do you feel like the United States will ever get
there?
Will ever get there?
Neil Markey (31:06):
Yeah, I do so in Oregon and Colorado.
It's legal at the state level.
Now it's complicated and we'renot there for a reason because
it's still very clearlyfederally illegal.
So as a company you're veryclearly breaking the Controlled
Substances Act and the potentialpenalties are real.
And then it makes it a bitharder to get insurance.
(31:28):
All the banking getscomplicated and you're breaking
the law.
So for us, we're planning towape or we're watching it and
we're really supportive oforganizations that are kind of
out front and taking a bit morerisk, because I think we need to
do it.
I think something could happenunder this administration to
(31:50):
reschedule mushrooms fromschedule one to schedule three,
and then that'll open things upsignificantly.
And you know, all thesedifferent psychedelic compounds
are different and have differentrisk profiles and different
appropriate ways to use them.
But you know, I think mushroomsdifferent appropriate ways to
use them.
But you know, I think mushroomsI mean if, so long as they're
(32:11):
done in the right way, they'requite low risk and they're
natural, they're non-toxic, andso for them to be a federal
schedule one, which is the sameas heroin, it's completely
divorced from any logic or dataor anything that we know.
So hopefully people will seethe light and that'll change
(32:33):
before too long.
Michele Folan (32:34):
You had mentioned .
Something that I thought waskind of interesting is that once
people go through thisexperience, you help facilitate
the like, the after piece, thelike.
How do they, how do theyintegrate this experience back
into their daily life?
(32:55):
And I was curious with thesetransformative journeys, are you
all in touch with people afterthey leave the netherlands or
jamaica?
Neil Markey (33:07):
okay.
So it's a roughly a six weekintegration period where we
bring the group back together afew more times digitally, so
resume, and then some guestswill want more one-on-one, so
we'll have one-on-ones with themand then, yeah, we check in
with them on different intervalsand then also try and bring all
(33:27):
of our alumni together whenpossible to reconnect and give
encouragement.
And so, yeah, the answer is yes.
I think you know right nowwe're doing the best we can
because of the way the laws are.
So we're flying people intothese remote locations and then
they're going back home.
That's not optimal.
(33:48):
Remote locations and thenthey're going back home that's
not optimal.
I'm hopeful that if you give usenough time, these centers will
be able to be near where peoplelive.
Yeah, I still think you wantthem in nature.
I don't think you want to justdo this stuff only in doctor's
offices.
So I think you want retreatcenters where people can have
the digital detox, get off thegrid for a minute, really focus,
(34:09):
but then they can go back tothat city that's nearby and
there's enough people that havegone through these programs that
they can kind of have somecommunity there easily in person
.
I think that's more optimalthan you know.
We're trying to fix it, butit's not perfect.
Michele Folan (34:27):
Right, but it's not perfect, right, well, and I
would assume that after peoplego through this experience
together, there's this realcommunity and bond that they
would develop.
Neil Markey (34:36):
It's true, yeah.
Michele Folan (34:37):
Okay.
Neil Markey (34:38):
It's true.
Yeah, I mean I told you thestat 88% said it's the most
meaningful or one of the mostmeaningful.
And I think for many we're justused to living a certain way
and having these kind of verytransactional relationships.
You can like work with someonefor a decade and not know much
(35:00):
about them other than like how'syour weekend?
Kind of like super surface,it's just very normal.
And then you have an experiencelike this with other human
beings and it's quite raw anddeep and you see people and
people really see you and it'smoving and many of us are.
(35:24):
We're kind of yearning thatwe're missing, that.
We want to connect more, wewant to put this facade down
that maybe we've had at work andwe want to just be real.
And so, yeah, I think that'sjust that.
Just that what's happeningamongst the group for people is
(35:45):
sometimes one of the mostimportant things they take away.
Michele Folan (35:49):
I have a question .
So you know we talked about.
You know you do have a lot ofclients, guests that are older.
What's the oldest guests you'vehad?
Neil Markey (36:01):
We had an 80-year-old woman and an
86-year-old man husband and wifethat came down for her 80th
birthday.
Michele Folan (36:08):
Where were they from?
And wife that came down for her80th birthday.
Neil Markey (36:10):
Where were they from?
They were from New York andthey had lived like a super
colorful life, lived all overthe world, very successful, and
they kind of came down just withthis sense of adventure and
they've actually been reallyhelpful to us because they've
been willing to tell their storymultiple times and connect with
people that are interestedabout doing this work, that are
(36:32):
in that age group.
And they didn't come in withthis intention, but they they,
since after the program theyimmediately stopped drinking.
They just had no interest indrinking anymore.
And now they have this morningkind of ritual with they do
together where they drink teaand they meditate and it's just
so sweet.
And they were one of the onesthat said this is the one of the
(36:52):
most meaningful things they'veever done.
And it's just so hard.
I mean we as an organization,it really is hard to kind of put
into words these experiencesthat in some way are just like,
they're just beyond words.
You know like you have to, youhave to live it, but it's um,
it's um, they're really, they'rereally beautiful.
Michele Folan (37:11):
I have a question , since you've done this or
maybe you could speak to yourguests that you have at your at
your two locations is meditationmore meaningful now, after you
go through this experience?
Neil Markey (37:25):
I've been trying to get people to meditate for like
10 years now and it's hardbecause meditation takes time
and it's really hard toarticulate the benefits if
you've never experienced them.
Or more spaciousness, if you'venever had that, it doesn't
(37:50):
resonate.
Where fitness?
We're such visual creatures.
I can show you a picture of afit person and people are like
oh okay, I get that.
It's really hard with meditationbecause it's all internal, but
(38:10):
there for sure is somethinghappening.
Meditation and theseexperiences are complementary
and kind of pointing in the samedirection, and so for us
meditation is foundational.
It's a big part of our programand, yes, many people the kind
of compliance rate formeditation after a psychedelic
experience is much higher.
We don't know why, but it openssomething up and people just
understand why it's so importantto sit and be for periods of
(38:34):
time frequently.
One of my friends businesspartners runs a veteran
organization that teachesmeditation for people that are
coming out of the service.
His benchmark of success wasgroups of 20 to 25, six months
later check in with them If hehad one or two that was still
(38:55):
meditating.
That was good for him.
Michele Folan (38:58):
He was happy.
Neil Markey (39:00):
But I mean that's an incredibly low number, but
that was the reality.
Now he said he's intentionallytried to seek out veterans that
are having these psychedelicexperiences and grab them soon
after they've had theexperiences and put them into
these programs.
And he said it's almost flipped.
Really.
So six months later, 20 of themare still meditating, which I
(39:21):
just think is just so.
Even these experiences, even ifwe never understand the
mechanics of them or understandthe so what we know, meditation
is transformative for people.
I mean you look at the researchon it.
We have so many years ofresearch.
It's just helpful foreverything you know sleep and
(39:41):
blood pressure and sense ofwellbeing, and I mean it's just
it's it's really extraordinaryand what it can do for people.
We just can't get people to doit Right.
It just seems so boring.
Michele Folan (39:55):
I'm one of them.
Neil Markey (39:56):
And so if these experiences yeah, well, maybe
come down, we'll see if.
Michele Folan (40:00):
I am the worst, like I don't know if I have ADHD
, but meditating it's like Icrawl out of my own skin.
I have a hard time sitting in aspot for that long and trying
not to think about stuff that Ihave to do.
Neil Markey (40:23):
You and all humans.
Michele Folan (40:27):
I am the worst and I've not done a show just on
meditation.
I need to probably do that thisyear, but I know I've got some
work to do.
Neil Markey (40:42):
Well, I can help you with meditation.
I think I've got some differenttechniques.
I think sometimes the wayyou're describing it I've heard
people describe it before andthere's actually some simple
things that you can do toreframe it that maybe will make
it a bit easier, so we can maybecatch up sometime.
Michele Folan (40:59):
All right, we'll chat about that.
I want to know, though so Iknow these experiences are very
spiritual how have you tried tokind of navigate, keeping them
very spiritual but still kind ofkeeping this as a business,
because clearly you've got tokind of straddle both sides of
(41:22):
this?
Neil Markey (41:23):
Yeah, I think it's the middle path.
I mean, we're a public benefitcorporation, which I just firmly
believe is a good model, and weneed more companies that have a
dual mission.
And so I think, if you look atcapitalism at its extremes, the
big, huge internationalbehemoths that maybe have lost
(41:44):
their way and lost heart and arejust trying to maximize profits
for their shareholders.
Nothing else matters.
Literally by law, if you tryand do something as a for-profit
company, your shareholders cansue you if it's not maximizing
their dollars.
So I think there's somethingwrong with that model at its
(42:05):
extremes.
I think capitalism actuallyworks really well locally, but
once it gets to a certain sizeor then it starts to get or kind
of loses heart, loses itsconnection with the community
and its employees and it justbecomes so mechanical then it
gets a little scary.
On the other side of thespectrum is nonprofits, which
(42:26):
are not without their challengeseither.
There's 40,000, four zerothousand veteran nonprofits in
the United States.
Michele Folan (42:35):
Oh gosh, right, I mean yeah, I had no idea.
Neil Markey (42:40):
Like a thousand percent almost.
I mean, how does that?
Does it?
So you can't tell me that allof the philanthropy is getting
down to the people that actuallyneed it because it's so
fragmented.
It's a mess.
Michele Folan (42:53):
It's an absolute mess.
Neil Markey (42:54):
And then there's all these silly rules in the
nonprofit world where you can'tpay your people really well,
because it's only about themission and they can't have
equity, they can't buildfinancial independence, you
can't pay commissions financialindependence, you can't pay
commissions.
And so to me that models itworks in some ways, but it's not
(43:19):
without its flaws, and so Ireally just believe in these
middle path companies.
I think Patagonia is such agood example.
The world needs products andservices, and so Patagonia sells
products that the world needs.
They try and do it in a reallythoughtful way, sourcing it from
the right place, making itreally high quality so you don't
just throw it away.
They do repairs, so they'resuper ethical in that way, and
(43:40):
then they have a dual missionthey want to do good things for
the planet and it's not justwindow dressing kind of.
BS, it's legit.
They give real money toenvironmental causes, and so to
me, that's a better model.
They're self-sustaining,they're generating on their own,
(44:02):
they don't have to keep lookingfor donor dollars every year.
They can put strategic planstogether, they can hire really
good talent.
And so to me, what would Spiritwant more in this world?
To kind of create some moreequilibrium and some more
balance.
It would want more companiesthat are trying to find that
middle path and manage and bemindful of all the different
(44:23):
stakeholders there are to bethoughtful of.
Companies back in the day usedto just have more inherent felt
responsibility for theiremployees.
Now it's kind of gotten awayfrom that.
Same for the communities.
So I think we just kind of needto veer back.
So I think there you can havethis, but there is a tension.
(44:45):
But I think it's a healthytension.
Michele Folan (44:47):
I think it's a really healthy tension tension,
but I think it's a healthytension, you know, I think it's
a really healthy tension.
So I have a question for you.
This is more of a, this is kindof a personal question what is
one?
And besides meditation don'tsay meditation, because I know
you meditate what is one of yourcore pillars of self-care?
Neil Markey (45:03):
after meditation.
It's cheating then well, I dothink that's foundational.
And then the next level is afew things.
But um, if you made me pick one, I would probably say, like
exercise, moving the body, okay,but I would also put in there
good connections, purposefulwork, sunshine, healthy diet.
Michele Folan (45:28):
Yeah, yeah, you're singing my tune.
I love all those things.
Neil Markey (45:33):
They're all good things.
Michele Folan (45:34):
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing those,Neil.
Where can the listeners findyou and find Beckley Retreats?
Neil Markey (45:42):
Yeah, we're online.
So if you Google BeckleyRetreats, we'll come up.
It's just beckleyretreats.
com.
Google Beckley Retreats willcome up.
It's just beckleyretreatscom.
We're on Instagram and Facebookand LinkedIn and we do.
You know we have a.
If you send us an email,welcome at Beckley Retreats or
info at Beckley Retreats, we'resuper responsive.
There's a place on our websitewhere you can book a one-on-one
(46:06):
call.
So you know there's plenty ofavailability for those, and we
know that these experiences formany they're new, and so people
have a lot of questions and it'sa big decision to kind of make
an investment like this and comedo one of these, and so we'll
take as much time as needed.
It is not uncommon for us tohave two or three calls with
(46:28):
someone and then they want us tospeak with their husband or
wife, or then they want to speakwith the facilitator.
We're happy to kind of do allthose things so that people have
everything they need to feelreally good about coming down.
Michele Folan (46:42):
I love that.
Neil Markey (46:43):
I love that.
Yeah, we have chat on ourwebsite and I'm like we should
put that this is actually a realhuman and they can text us.
It's not a bot.
It's not a bot.
We're not bots.
I'm like that's a uniqueselling point.
Michele Folan (47:00):
It is actually.
Neil Markey (47:01):
You can actually talk to a person.
Michele Folan (47:02):
Yeah.
Neil Markey (47:03):
Yeah, we're trying to kind of keep it really
thoughtful and connect in a realway and not just, you know, be
super transactional about it.
Michele Folan (47:13):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing that and thank
you for bringing this topic tothe show Again.
I just want to put things outthere for people who may really
want to dig a little deeper, andyou know whether you're
struggling with something or youjust want to dig a little
deeper and you know whetheryou're you're struggling with
something or you're you justwant to take your, your mind to
(47:34):
a new place and and, as like Isaid, clear the pipes.
You know, I think this issomething to consider, and so,
Neil Markey, thank you so muchfor being a guest today.
Neil Markey (47:45):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Michele Folan (47:48):
Hey, thanks for tuning in.
Please rate and review the showwhere you listen to the podcast
.
And did you know that Askingfor a Friend is available now to
listen on YouTube?
You can subscribe to thepodcast there as well.
Your support is appreciated andit helps others find the show.
Thank you.
Health, wellness, fitness and everything in
between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
One thing I always aim to do isbring our audience a wide
(00:24):
variety of topics in the healthand wellness arena.
Sometimes we have guests on theshow that may challenge the
status quo or medical norms towhich we're accustomed, but I
believe that when we aresearching for answers when it
comes to our health and thehealth of our families, it's
important to know and understandall the options.
We are not one size fits alland certainly important to know
(00:45):
and understand all the options.
We are not one-size-fits-alland certainly, as medical
science and innovation evolves,there may be an opportunity to
explore alternatives that aresafe and proven over time.
Neil Markey is the co-founderand CEO of Beckley Retreats, the
world's only psychedelicsretreat program, backed by 25
years of scientific research andan ecosystem of expertise that
(01:08):
honors global wisdom traditions.
A former captain in the US ArmySpecial Operations 2nd Ranger
Battalion, neil served in Iraqand Afghanistan before studying
at Columbia University, where hestruggled with depression and
PTSD.
This led him to exploremindfulness and psychedelics as
(01:28):
part of his healing journey.
Prior to Beckley.
He was chief growth officer fora $450 million private equity
portfolio company and aconsultant at McKinsey and
Company.
Neil Markey, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.
Neil Markey (01:44):
Thank you for having me.
Michele Folan (01:45):
Yeah, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.
We chatted for a couple minutesbefore we got started, but I'd
love for you, Neil, to tell theaudience a little bit more about
where you're from, where yourroots are.
And then I want to hear moreabout your stint in the Army and
all that good stuff too.
Neil Markey (02:04):
Sure.
Well, I grew up in a small townabout an hour north of
Washington DC called Frederick,Maryland, and my whole family is
still there.
Actually, on my dad's side wecan trace back.
They've been there for 300years, so we're deep in
Frederick and it certainly feelslike home.
And then I was studying math atUniversity of Maryland and then
(02:29):
September 11th happened and Iwanted to go help.
I thought I was doing the rightthing, so I joined the officer
program you could actually seethe smoke from the top of the
Pentagon or from the top of thefootball stadium at the Pentagon
and it was a huge day in mylife, like it was for many.
And I finished school and wentin as a lieutenant and I believe
(02:55):
that whole weapons of massdestruction narrative that we
ended up getting pretty wildlywrong.
Unfortunately, by that time Ihad already made the commitment
and ended up in Iraq as alieutenant leading an infantry
platoon and then got a chance togo try out for the Ranger
Regiment, which is a smallspecial operations unit, and
(03:15):
when I was there I was more onthe planning side, so I was a
bit removed from the you knowthe worst of it, but it still
left some marks for sure.
And I mean, now looking back,everybody in that unit had some
form of PTSD.
I mean, these are the guys thatwere doing the night raids.
So it was wildly intense andalthough part of me loved it and
(03:38):
was so fortunate to be there, Ireally looked up to those guys
and I mean, leroy Petrie got themedal of honor when I was there
and his locker was right nextto mine.
It was larger than life and itwas wildly traumatic.
It was horrible.
And I got out in 2012 and wentto graduate school and, by some
(03:59):
measures, was doing well I wasputting one foot in front of the
other but by some othermeasures I was really struggling
.
I was starting to isolate andhaving trouble sleeping and
severe anxiety and anger, and Itried quite a few different
traditional interventions,different medications and
sleeping pills and didn't have awhole lot of luck.
(04:22):
And then was introduced tomeditation while I was a grad
student and meditation wasexactly what I needed and I
started practicing that andlearning more about other
interventions that weren't justthe establishment and then I had
the chance to have someprofessionally facilitated
psychedelic experiences.
There's a long history ofveterans, particularly the
(04:45):
special operations community,getting access to these
treatments on the underground inthe United States and in
Central and South America and Iwas fortunate to have some of
those and for me it was profound.
It was a real opportunity toreset.
Now it wasn't one and done, butit was the beginning of a kind
(05:06):
of a new path and learning a newway to live.
So that's kind of how I gotinto this work over 10 years ago
now.
Michele Folan (05:13):
So yeah, because I was going to make the
assumption that the VA wasn'toffering you these types of
medications.
Right, and I'll call themmedications.
Neil Markey (05:22):
But no, they weren't.
But the VA just put in theirstrategic plan for the first
time last year to research thesecompounds.
So it's happening.
I'm encouraged, okay, and theVA has got a big hairy mission.
It's a hard mission.
(05:43):
So I think they're doing apretty good job.
But the reality is is the drugcompanies have a lot of
influence in this whole system,in the VA and in the established
medical system, and theincentives are what they are and
they drive a certain type ofbehavior because there's money
to be made.
It's just the reality of wherewe are.
So the reason you don't see alot of people get prescribed
(06:06):
healthy diet and exercise andmeditation and time in nature is
there's just not a lot of moneyto be made in that, so it's
just not going to be top of thepriority list.
Michele Folan (06:16):
You don't have to get me started on this, because
you're speaking my language andI came from the pharmaceutical
industry.
I spent years there, I left andnow really just what I'm seeing
now kind of transpaceuticalsand more natural modalities to
treat people because it's notbeing made available to people
(06:51):
and I think that's such atravesty.
One other thing, neil is and Idon't know if this is cliche,
but thank you for your service.
Appreciate that very much, thattime that you spent honoring
your service to the country.
So thank you for that.
Neil Markey (07:06):
Thank you for that.
Yeah, it was my path, you know,and I'm so fortunate for it.
Michele Folan (07:12):
Thank, you, yeah Well, even as hard as it was,
and your life afterwards andcoming out of that, it's who you
are today and you wouldn't havepursued this path of helping
others, right?
And so it's that double-edgedthing that you've got.
But I do want to ask you so,when you got introduced into the
(07:37):
world of psychedelics, are wetalking psilocybin?
Am I saying that right?
Neil Markey (07:42):
Yeah, psilocybin Okay.
Michele Folan (07:44):
Mushrooms, Mushrooms.
Okay, Will you explain that alittle bit what those compounds
look like?
Neil Markey (07:59):
Yeah, there's a bunch of different types of
fungus or mushrooms and acertain percentage of them have
a psychoactive compound in themcalled psilocybin a psychoactive
compound in them calledpsilocybin and when you take it
in a large enough dose it makesyou hallucinate or trip or be
high.
And if you do these experiencesin a controlled manner, it
(08:19):
looks like you can actually geta lot out of them in terms of
letting things go and developinga new perspective, and it looks
like they have some prettydirect impact on the central
nervous system and sort ofletting things kind of rewire.
If you look at what happens inthe brain under an fMRI when
people are on psilocybin at highdoses, it allows parts of the
brain to connect that maybe havenever connected before or have
lost connection, so the brainlights up in ways and so it's
(08:43):
really fascinating.
But it looks like there's quitea broad array of potential use
cases.
So they could be used on theclinical end of the spectrum as
a way to kind of get someonethat is, you know, dealing with
PTSD, treatment-resistantdepression, things like this, to
kind of get them up to betterand well.
(09:05):
Kind of get them up to betterand well, and then it looks like
you can take people that aregenerally well and give them
these experiences controlledenvironment and they can kind of
move up the ladder.
They can develop higher levelsof empathy, this sense of awe,
creativity, cognitive function.
It looks like they'reneuroregenerative, so they're
healthy for the brain, so longas if they're done in the right
way.
And I should also mention toothat they are very different
(09:29):
than our typical pharmaceutical,so to use them optimally it
requires kind of some awarenessand buy-in from the user.
So you can't just takemushrooms.
I mean you can, but if you justtake mushrooms like you would
take a drug your doctor gave youand went on about your day,
that's the wrong approach.
(09:50):
So there's a realintentionality that's required
with these to get something outof them or to at least optimize
the experience.
It's quite different than whatwe're used to as Americans.
Michele Folan (10:00):
Okay, so I have to say, the only real knowledge
I have had of this process is doyou remember and I don't know
how long ago this was butChelsea Handler?
Neil Markey (10:15):
Yes.
Michele Folan (10:16):
Okay, she and I guess it was like a shaman, it
was like the sweat tent and thewhole deal and she had quite a
reaction to it.
And that's what I think of whenI think of going through that
process.
How close is that to what yousee in your experiences?
Neil Markey (10:37):
Yeah, so you can have these experiences in a
doctor's office, by yourself,with headphones on, you know, in
a clinical environment, and weas an organization are
supportive of people that do itin that way because for some
indications and desired outcomesand individuals, that's the
(10:58):
better entry point.
You can also go do theseexperiences in Peru, up the
river, a couple days, in themiddle of nowhere, in a very
traditional way.
We're kind of in the middle.
Nice experience.
(11:27):
But also bring in what we'velearned from how traditional
communities are doing this interms of the intentionality and
making it special and doing itin groups and having some
ceremony around it.
Because what we've seen, and Ithink that this world is
understanding, is thateverything that happens around
it the context, the set and thesetting that happens around it
(11:48):
the context, the set and thesetting, the who you're with,
the location you are, the whatled you up to it, the
preparation, how the experienceis facilitated, all the after,
the integration, the makingsense of the, integrating it
into your life that matters justas much, if not more, as the
actual compound does.
So we really think about it, aswe're running integrative
(12:11):
health programs that use theseexperiences as a way to kind of
accelerate positive change.
Michele Folan (12:16):
Yeah, what you're saying is it's the total
experience that you bring peoplein and it's very spiritual.
It sounds like.
Neil Markey (12:25):
There's definitely a spiritual component to it.
I think it's hard to deny that,you know.
But there's these phenomenathat are happening and it
becomes very clear when you havethese experiences that there's
something that is alive in usand there's a connection between
(12:46):
us and other human beings.
We can measure this in someways, but I don't think we have
the full understanding by anymeans.
But we know that we'reelectromagnetic beings and you
can pick up on my centralnervous system and I can pick up
on yours.
So there's all thisinterconnectedness between us
humans.
And then there's aninterconnectedness between us
and nature, living things.
(13:07):
Again, we can measure somepieces of that, but when you
have one of these experiencesbecomes very clear, not just
from like a rational okay, Iunderstand the mechanics but
like from an intuitive kind ofdeep knowingness.
And when that happens, thingsshift and we don't understand
all of what's happening, butit's quite significant.
(13:30):
You know many people comethrough and, um, well, I'll tell
you that we just were doing a2024 kind of uh, an assessment
of ourselves and things and 88%of our guests said it was the
most meaningful or one of themost meaningful experiences of
their life.
Wow, so something profound ishappening.
Yeah, that is.
(13:50):
That's quite fascinating.
Michele Folan (13:53):
I want to back up just a little bit.
So when you were at McKinseyand you were in the corporate
world, and during that time, Ithink is when you were
struggling to kind of pieceeverything together, and at what
point did you say thetraditional methods just aren't
helping me, when did you finallysay, okay, I got to do
(14:14):
something else.
Neil Markey (14:15):
Well, that was really when I got out of the
service and into grad school andI had this period where I
learned how to live differently.
I really got into meditation,where I learned how to live
differently.
I really got into meditation.
I stopped drinking.
I started a small business withmy brother when I was in grad
school and then, when I finishedschool, I did a teacher
certification in meditation andfor a period of time, was
(14:36):
teaching meditation and workingon this small business, and so I
had purposeful work.
I was living in my hometown, Ihad good community, I was
exercising, I was doing all myhometown.
I had good community, I wasexercising, I was doing all the
right things and all of mysymptoms were gone.
I felt inspired every day.
I was happy, I was optimistic.
You know all these positivefeelings that everybody wants.
(14:57):
What is clear to me now, withthe benefit of hindsight, was
when I went into the corporateworld, I lost my way a little
bit.
My well-being started to slip,and I think that was because
there was a bit of a mismatch interms of values and a mismatch
in terms of the work that I'msupposed to be doing as a small
(15:17):
kid from Frederick, maryland,and just what I want to be part
of in this world.
And I was in the corporate worldfor five years or so McKinsey
and then I was doing somerestructuring work with a
private equity company, and atthe tail end of that work I
remember realizing that some ofmy symptoms were coming back the
(15:40):
stress, the sleeplessness, therelationships are just a bit
more strained.
I was out of shape.
And then I was looking at a lotof my peers and many of them
were having similar symptoms andnone of them had been to war
and a lot of them had impressivedegrees and came from
(16:05):
well-to-do families and you know, they weren't exhibiting PTSD
symptoms, but they could bedoing a lot better if they were
taking better care of themselvesand they had all the resources.
It was just like an environmentthing and a kind of a value
alignment thing, and so I kindof had this valley and then
realization, and then went backdown and then hit another kind
(16:27):
of like little, maybe not a rockbottom, but a wake up where
it's like, hey, you need to livedifferently, like this path is
not for you.
And that's when I left, that'swhen I met Amanda Fielding and
then this whole Beckleyorganization, and now I think
I'm working on something that ison path for me.
Michele Folan (16:47):
Yeah, and back to the stress thing.
When we overload ourselves withstress, whether it's work, home
, whatever, sometimes I don'tthink we have an appreciation
for how much that affects ourphysical being.
Neil Markey (17:00):
Oh my God, yeah, it's very significant.
Michele Folan (17:03):
Yeah, and I think the other piece of that which I
love that you mentioned thatyou know, when you were in the
corporate world, you weren'tdoing what you were really meant
to be doing.
Neil Markey (17:14):
Yeah.
Michele Folan (17:15):
And, um, I had a similar epiphany about this time
last year and when I left, Ileft the corporate world and
it's scary when you make thatleap.
So I'm curious, when you leftyour rather cushy corporate job,
like what were you thinkingLike?
Were you scared?
Neil Markey (17:36):
Yeah, I think I had some anxiety around what was
next, but I just knew I wasn'tgoing to keep doing that, you
know, and um, and I got back toteaching meditation because I
had done that previously and Ikind of knew how to be well I
had been well before.
So I tried to remove thingsfrom my life and get back to the
(17:58):
basics and take good care ofmyself and get sunshine and
exercise and eat good, and I wasfortunate to be able to not
work for a bit of time and justallow things to kind of come
into my life, which I think nowif I talk to younger veterans
and it's like, if you can createspace, if you don't have space
in your mind and you don't havespace in your day or in your
(18:20):
life, it's hard for kind of newthings to sprout.
And so I think I was able tocreate some space after that
corporate world and get back todoing things that I kind of just
innately gravitated towards andthen through that, this really
significant opportunity for mepresented itself.
(18:40):
Okay, yeah.
Michele Folan (18:41):
When people come to you and Beckley, is there a
common theme with what they'retrying to achieve?
Neil Markey (18:48):
Yeah, there is.
They're seekers, you know, andthey've generally done really
well for themselves and havealready spent, you know, some
time on personal professionaldevelopment and they want to be
better fathers, sons, daughters,business partners.
They want to appreciate lifemore.
(19:10):
They want to.
They know it's moving fast andthey don't necessarily want to
slow down, but they want to makeit more meaningful, have more
depth, be more present, and sowe'll have people come down.
You know, our programs areexplicitly non-medical, so we
don't treat depression or ptsd.
If people have clinical levelindications, we try and point
(19:30):
them to facilities that are moreappropriate.
Ours are more for thebetterment of the well.
So it's people that aregenerally doing okay but want to
become more creative, moreempathetic, improve cognitive
function, develop some new,better habits, make some real
change, process loss.
So yeah, but there's thisseeker thread.
(19:55):
These are in some waysadventurers and people that this
is still a little.
It's not near as taboo as itwas a couple years ago, but it's
still a bit edgy for manypeople.
So it's a certain type ofindividual to try it.
Michele Folan (20:08):
I get that, I do, and you do have to be a little
bit more of an adventurous soulto kind of put yourself out
there to do this.
But to me, in a very simple wayto explain it, it kind of
cleans the pipes.
Neil Markey (20:28):
It cleans things out, for sure.
Michele Folan (20:30):
Yeah.
Neil Markey (20:30):
There's another metaphor that I like a lot.
It's if you think about like aski mountain and then skiers go
down at all day, then by the endof the day there's kind of ruts
, right, and you know everythingafter that.
You're basically going to goride in the ruts because you
can't go across them and whatthese experiences do is in some
ways it's like a fresh coat ofsnow.
(20:53):
And so then, if you'reintentional, you can lay new
routes down the mountain, youcan lay new thought patterns in,
you can lay new emotionalpatterns in so that when
stimulus comes into your lifeyou react differently or have a
space to be able to chooseinstead of this kind of
well-rooted pattern.
(21:14):
But if you don't do anythingaround the experience, then the
likelihood that you just kind oflike re-groove back into those
old paths is actually quite high, because they're deep and
they've been there for quitesome time.
Because they're deep andthey've been there for quite
some time.
So it takes this buy-in oreffort on the individual to kind
(21:34):
of like you have to do somethings around those experiences
to really make change that isgoing to stick for more than a
short period of time, if thatmakes sense.
Michele Folan (21:43):
Yeah, it does.
Hey, Neil, we're going to takea quick break and when we get
back I want to talk about kindof who your typical client is.
Are you feeling overwhelmed bythe changes that come with
midlife, struggling with weight,energy or finding time for
yourself?
You're not alone.
I get it because I've beenthere too.
(22:04):
I specialize in helping midlifewomen just like you transform
their health and lives throughpersonalized nutrition and
coaching that fits your reallife.
Together, we'll tackle thoseunique challenges, whether it's
balancing your hormones, dealingwith cravings or boosting your
energy.
It's not just about diets.
(22:24):
It's about reclaiming yourstrength and confidence one step
at a time.
Check out the show notes ofthis episode and shoot me an
email.
I'd love to learn more aboutyou and your challenges.
All right, we are back.
When we first started recording, I told you that my audience is
(22:45):
typically 50 plus and yousmiled.
Why did you smile?
Neil Markey (22:54):
Just because it's been like a bit of a little
sweet surprise for our guests tobe older, and I don't know, I
just uh, I just love.
I love guests that are older.
They're just like better guests, they're just, they're just
more sure of themselves and andum, there's just like some
sweetness to me in it for somereason.
Michele Folan (23:08):
Yeah, I think from my maybe this is just my
perspective they kind of alreadyknow who they are, exactly
Right, and so they may be alittle more open to being into
the whole experience.
Yes, even though they're older,they may not have as much
baggage Like to try to like allthis stuff that they've got to
(23:29):
get through.
To be open to doing this, Iguess, is what I'm trying to say
.
Baggage is a bad word.
Neil Markey (23:35):
No, but it's something like that.
They're not holding on so tight, they're just like more free to
kind of allow and learn andyeah.
Michele Folan (23:45):
And you have couples that come and do this
together and you have couplesthat come and do this together,
definitely.
Neil Markey (23:50):
Yeah, I think that most of our guests I know I
don't think I know most of ourguests are individuals that come
down.
But I think, in some ways,coming with a friend or partner
or mother or daughter can bereally sweet because you have
this existing relationship, sothere's some trust and so that's
(24:16):
like a little bit of a lifeline.
But then you can kind of comein and you have the group
dynamic, which a bunch of peoplethat you are getting to know,
and then you have thatrelationship on the back and so,
yeah, that happens.
We have more.
You know, we have a lot ofpeople that come down, or even
small groups that'll come down.
We just are.
You have to ask a few morequestions, you have to kind of
make sure, which you don't wantand we've seen this, as you can
(24:37):
imagine, is like so-and-so willbe, like I just need to get my
husband Steve down and we'regoing to get him fixed, and then
we're going to be good.
Right, then we're going to begood and it's like so, if the
relationship has a lot ofturmoil or there's like a lot of
challenge, you just need to bemore careful and you need to
kind of let the individuals knowthe risks there.
(25:01):
But if the relationship'sgenerally healthy and both
people are coming down on theirown because they find it
exciting and they're curious andthey want to learn and have an
experience, and oh, by the way,we'll look at the dynamic
between us two because we'regoing to be together, then
that's perfect.
That's like a really beautifulscenario.
Michele Folan (25:22):
You know, given your military background, I
would imagine that safety isparamount for you.
So what does that look like?
What would it look like for meif I were to come down, and I
would want to go through thisexperience?
Neil Markey (25:38):
Yeah, it's one of the best compliments I've gotten
over the years that we'vegotten as an organization was
someone told us that it feltlike an extremely loving and
well-run military organization,because we just take it
seriously.
You know it's serious work andso you know we think about
(26:00):
safety kind of across the entireexperience for the guest, and
it really starts with thescreening.
So you need to make sure thatthe individual coming down
doesn't have anycontraindications or psychiatric
concerns or medical issues.
And so we do a questionnaireand then we do a call and we're
also looking just forsuitability.
(26:22):
Is this person at the rightplace in their personal
development to be a good fit forwhat we do, you know, and we
say no to a good chunk of peopleand try and point them in
directions that are moreappropriate.
And then there's thepreparation.
So we teach people the basicpractices, well-being skills to
(26:45):
help navigate these experiences,to get their body in a better
state when they have theseexperiences.
So we teach meditation andmindful movement and breathwork
exercises and give some thoughtson the right diet leading up to
the experience.
And then on site, the set andsetting is really important.
So we're on beautiful estates,we're away from everything.
(27:08):
It's just us and thefacilitation team.
I think we have some of the bestfacilitators in the world
because, frankly, we pay reallywell and I think our
facilitators really appreciateaffiliating with Amanda Fielding
and the Beckley Foundation, soit's good for their personal
brand.
So we've been able to be superselective around who we even
allow to have the honor ofholding these experiences and I
(27:31):
mean we have a really high barfor our facilitators.
And then the facilitator toguest ratio.
I think that's really important.
There's places that have hugenumbers of guests and it's more
just good luck.
You know we it's a, you knowgroup size is around 15.
And for that we'll have fivefacilitators plus a nurse, plus
(27:54):
sitters for the psilocybinsession, plus the facility staff
.
So it's like we have a lot ofpersonnel that are there to look
after them.
The dose is important, so allof our guests get a custom
amount based on a discussionbetween them and the senior
facilitator.
So we make sure that that'sappropriate.
Now it's within a defined range, which is what you would see in
(28:17):
clinical trials in the UnitedStates.
But that's tailored.
It's just really thoughtful toset in the setting and then on
the back end is the integrationthat I think you know I'm a bit
biased, obviously, but I thinkwe have one of, if not the most
thoughtful integration periodwhere we're taking people, you
(28:39):
know, from these experiencesback into real life and trying
to give them the tools that theyneed to help make behavior
change and giving them, you knowall the tools afterwards help
make behavior change and givingthem, you know, all the tools
afterwards so we really thinkabout it across the whole
spectrum.
And then, you know, we gathermetrics, so we get feedback from
our guests, we get feedbackfrom our facilitators, we assess
(28:59):
that.
That rolls into our planning.
We've made different changes toour programs to try, and you
know, be iterative and learn wejust things that you would
expect in a doctor's office or avery professionally run
organization.
We try and do that at a highlevel.
Now, for people to know,there's no governing bodies
around this right now.
(29:19):
So if you're going to go havethese experiences, it's good to
ask the questions, because it'son the centers and the
facilitators to policethemselves, right, and there are
amazing human beings out therethat are doing great work and
there are people that, frankly,should not be doing this work,
and so it's just, you know, it'sright now it's a bit buyer
(29:40):
beware Right, because there'snobody, that there's no central
organization that's ensuringstandards or anything.
Right now we're trying to setthe bar high.
Michele Folan (29:50):
I love everything that you're saying because it
sounds like you've you all havereally done your homework and
you continue to make theseimprovements as as you get
feedback and you and you workthese experiences.
How many years have you beendoing this now?
Neil Markey (30:05):
Beckley Retreats has been doing it for four years
.
Michele Folan (30:07):
Okay, four years and you are in two locations.
Neil Markey (30:12):
Jamaica and the Netherlands.
It's the two locations where wecan do this work in this way
completely legally and aboveboard.
That's another thing from asafety perspective that I think
is important.
There's places in the worldwhere you can do this where it's
legally gray, and then whathappens when things are legally
gray is some parts are not fullyabove board.
(30:36):
So for us in Jamaica, forinstance, mushroom production,
cultivation and sale iscompletely legal, so it's easier
to ensure kind of like thestandards and be able to test
and check and ask questions, andso we're hopeful that more
places are going to legalizethis type of work, but right now
(30:59):
we're pretty limited to Jamaicaand the Netherlands.
Michele Folan (31:02):
Do you feel like the United States will ever get
there?
Will ever get there?
Neil Markey (31:06):
Yeah, I do so in Oregon and Colorado.
It's legal at the state level.
Now it's complicated and we'renot there for a reason because
it's still very clearlyfederally illegal.
So as a company you're veryclearly breaking the Controlled
Substances Act and the potentialpenalties are real.
And then it makes it a bitharder to get insurance.
(31:28):
All the banking getscomplicated and you're breaking
the law.
So for us, we're planning towape or we're watching it and
we're really supportive oforganizations that are kind of
out front and taking a bit morerisk, because I think we need to
do it.
I think something could happenunder this administration to
(31:50):
reschedule mushrooms fromschedule one to schedule three,
and then that'll open things upsignificantly.
And you know, all thesedifferent psychedelic compounds
are different and have differentrisk profiles and different
appropriate ways to use them.
But you know, I think mushroomsdifferent appropriate ways to
use them.
But you know, I think mushroomsI mean if, so long as they're
(32:11):
done in the right way, they'requite low risk and they're
natural, they're non-toxic, andso for them to be a federal
schedule one, which is the sameas heroin, it's completely
divorced from any logic or dataor anything that we know.
So hopefully people will seethe light and that'll change
(32:33):
before too long.
Michele Folan (32:34):
You had mentioned .
Something that I thought waskind of interesting is that once
people go through thisexperience, you help facilitate
the like, the after piece, thelike.
How do they, how do theyintegrate this experience back
into their daily life?
(32:55):
And I was curious with thesetransformative journeys, are you
all in touch with people afterthey leave the netherlands or
jamaica?
Neil Markey (33:07):
okay.
So it's a roughly a six weekintegration period where we
bring the group back together afew more times digitally, so
resume, and then some guestswill want more one-on-one, so
we'll have one-on-ones with themand then, yeah, we check in
with them on different intervalsand then also try and bring all
(33:27):
of our alumni together whenpossible to reconnect and give
encouragement.
And so, yeah, the answer is yes.
I think you know right nowwe're doing the best we can
because of the way the laws are.
So we're flying people intothese remote locations and then
they're going back home.
That's not optimal.
(33:48):
Remote locations and thenthey're going back home that's
not optimal.
I'm hopeful that if you give usenough time, these centers will
be able to be near where peoplelive.
Yeah, I still think you wantthem in nature.
I don't think you want to justdo this stuff only in doctor's
offices.
So I think you want retreatcenters where people can have
the digital detox, get off thegrid for a minute, really focus,
(34:09):
but then they can go back tothat city that's nearby and
there's enough people that havegone through these programs that
they can kind of have somecommunity there easily in person
.
I think that's more optimalthan you know.
We're trying to fix it, butit's not perfect.
Michele Folan (34:27):
Right, but it's not perfect, right, well, and I
would assume that after peoplego through this experience
together, there's this realcommunity and bond that they
would develop.
Neil Markey (34:36):
It's true, yeah.
Michele Folan (34:37):
Okay.
Neil Markey (34:38):
It's true.
Yeah, I mean I told you thestat 88% said it's the most
meaningful or one of the mostmeaningful.
And I think for many we're justused to living a certain way
and having these kind of verytransactional relationships.
You can like work with someonefor a decade and not know much
(35:00):
about them other than like how'syour weekend?
Kind of like super surface,it's just very normal.
And then you have an experiencelike this with other human
beings and it's quite raw anddeep and you see people and
people really see you and it'smoving and many of us are.
(35:24):
We're kind of yearning thatwe're missing, that.
We want to connect more, wewant to put this facade down
that maybe we've had at work andwe want to just be real.
And so, yeah, I think that'sjust that.
Just that what's happeningamongst the group for people is
(35:45):
sometimes one of the mostimportant things they take away.
Michele Folan (35:49):
I have a question .
So you know we talked about.
You know you do have a lot ofclients, guests that are older.
What's the oldest guests you'vehad?
Neil Markey (36:01):
We had an 80-year-old woman and an
86-year-old man husband and wifethat came down for her 80th
birthday.
Michele Folan (36:08):
Where were they from?
And wife that came down for her80th birthday.
Neil Markey (36:10):
Where were they from?
They were from New York andthey had lived like a super
colorful life, lived all overthe world, very successful, and
they kind of came down just withthis sense of adventure and
they've actually been reallyhelpful to us because they've
been willing to tell their storymultiple times and connect with
people that are interestedabout doing this work, that are
(36:32):
in that age group.
And they didn't come in withthis intention, but they they,
since after the program theyimmediately stopped drinking.
They just had no interest indrinking anymore.
And now they have this morningkind of ritual with they do
together where they drink teaand they meditate and it's just
so sweet.
And they were one of the onesthat said this is the one of the
(36:52):
most meaningful things they'veever done.
And it's just so hard.
I mean we as an organization,it really is hard to kind of put
into words these experiencesthat in some way are just like,
they're just beyond words.
You know like you have to, youhave to live it, but it's um,
it's um, they're really, they'rereally beautiful.
Michele Folan (37:11):
I have a question , since you've done this or
maybe you could speak to yourguests that you have at your at
your two locations is meditationmore meaningful now, after you
go through this experience?
Neil Markey (37:25):
I've been trying to get people to meditate for like
10 years now and it's hardbecause meditation takes time
and it's really hard toarticulate the benefits if
you've never experienced them.
Or more spaciousness, if you'venever had that, it doesn't
(37:50):
resonate.
Where fitness?
We're such visual creatures.
I can show you a picture of afit person and people are like
oh okay, I get that.
It's really hard with meditationbecause it's all internal, but
(38:10):
there for sure is somethinghappening.
Meditation and theseexperiences are complementary
and kind of pointing in the samedirection, and so for us
meditation is foundational.
It's a big part of our programand, yes, many people the kind
of compliance rate formeditation after a psychedelic
experience is much higher.
We don't know why, but it openssomething up and people just
understand why it's so importantto sit and be for periods of
(38:34):
time frequently.
One of my friends businesspartners runs a veteran
organization that teachesmeditation for people that are
coming out of the service.
His benchmark of success wasgroups of 20 to 25, six months
later check in with them If hehad one or two that was still
(38:55):
meditating.
That was good for him.
Michele Folan (38:58):
He was happy.
Neil Markey (39:00):
But I mean that's an incredibly low number, but
that was the reality.
Now he said he's intentionallytried to seek out veterans that
are having these psychedelicexperiences and grab them soon
after they've had theexperiences and put them into
these programs.
And he said it's almost flipped.
Really.
So six months later, 20 of themare still meditating, which I
(39:21):
just think is just so.
Even these experiences, even ifwe never understand the
mechanics of them or understandthe so what we know, meditation
is transformative for people.
I mean you look at the researchon it.
We have so many years ofresearch.
It's just helpful foreverything you know sleep and
(39:41):
blood pressure and sense ofwellbeing, and I mean it's just
it's it's really extraordinaryand what it can do for people.
We just can't get people to doit Right.
It just seems so boring.
Michele Folan (39:55):
I'm one of them.
Neil Markey (39:56):
And so if these experiences yeah, well, maybe
come down, we'll see if.
Michele Folan (40:00):
I am the worst, like I don't know if I have ADHD
, but meditating it's like Icrawl out of my own skin.
I have a hard time sitting in aspot for that long and trying
not to think about stuff that Ihave to do.
Neil Markey (40:23):
You and all humans.
Michele Folan (40:27):
I am the worst and I've not done a show just on
meditation.
I need to probably do that thisyear, but I know I've got some
work to do.
Neil Markey (40:42):
Well, I can help you with meditation.
I think I've got some differenttechniques.
I think sometimes the wayyou're describing it I've heard
people describe it before andthere's actually some simple
things that you can do toreframe it that maybe will make
it a bit easier, so we can maybecatch up sometime.
Michele Folan (40:59):
All right, we'll chat about that.
I want to know, though so Iknow these experiences are very
spiritual how have you tried tokind of navigate, keeping them
very spiritual but still kind ofkeeping this as a business,
because clearly you've got tokind of straddle both sides of
(41:22):
this?
Neil Markey (41:23):
Yeah, I think it's the middle path.
I mean, we're a public benefitcorporation, which I just firmly
believe is a good model, and weneed more companies that have a
dual mission.
And so I think, if you look atcapitalism at its extremes, the
big, huge internationalbehemoths that maybe have lost
(41:44):
their way and lost heart and arejust trying to maximize profits
for their shareholders.
Nothing else matters.
Literally by law, if you tryand do something as a for-profit
company, your shareholders cansue you if it's not maximizing
their dollars.
So I think there's somethingwrong with that model at its
(42:05):
extremes.
I think capitalism actuallyworks really well locally, but
once it gets to a certain sizeor then it starts to get or kind
of loses heart, loses itsconnection with the community
and its employees and it justbecomes so mechanical then it
gets a little scary.
On the other side of thespectrum is nonprofits, which
(42:26):
are not without their challengeseither.
There's 40,000, four zerothousand veteran nonprofits in
the United States.
Michele Folan (42:35):
Oh gosh, right, I mean yeah, I had no idea.
Neil Markey (42:40):
Like a thousand percent almost.
I mean, how does that?
Does it?
So you can't tell me that allof the philanthropy is getting
down to the people that actuallyneed it because it's so
fragmented.
It's a mess.
Michele Folan (42:53):
It's an absolute mess.
Neil Markey (42:54):
And then there's all these silly rules in the
nonprofit world where you can'tpay your people really well,
because it's only about themission and they can't have
equity, they can't buildfinancial independence, you
can't pay commissions financialindependence, you can't pay
commissions.
And so to me that models itworks in some ways, but it's not
(43:19):
without its flaws, and so Ireally just believe in these
middle path companies.
I think Patagonia is such agood example.
The world needs products andservices, and so Patagonia sells
products that the world needs.
They try and do it in a reallythoughtful way, sourcing it from
the right place, making itreally high quality so you don't
just throw it away.
They do repairs, so they'resuper ethical in that way, and
(43:40):
then they have a dual missionthey want to do good things for
the planet and it's not justwindow dressing kind of.
BS, it's legit.
They give real money toenvironmental causes, and so to
me, that's a better model.
They're self-sustaining,they're generating on their own,
(44:02):
they don't have to keep lookingfor donor dollars every year.
They can put strategic planstogether, they can hire really
good talent.
And so to me, what would Spiritwant more in this world?
To kind of create some moreequilibrium and some more
balance.
It would want more companiesthat are trying to find that
middle path and manage and bemindful of all the different
(44:23):
stakeholders there are to bethoughtful of.
Companies back in the day usedto just have more inherent felt
responsibility for theiremployees.
Now it's kind of gotten awayfrom that.
Same for the communities.
So I think we just kind of needto veer back.
So I think there you can havethis, but there is a tension.
(44:45):
But I think it's a healthytension.
Michele Folan (44:47):
I think it's a really healthy tension tension,
but I think it's a healthytension, you know, I think it's
a really healthy tension.
So I have a question for you.
This is more of a, this is kindof a personal question what is
one?
And besides meditation don'tsay meditation, because I know
you meditate what is one of yourcore pillars of self-care?
Neil Markey (45:03):
after meditation.
It's cheating then well, I dothink that's foundational.
And then the next level is afew things.
But um, if you made me pick one, I would probably say, like
exercise, moving the body, okay,but I would also put in there
good connections, purposefulwork, sunshine, healthy diet.
Michele Folan (45:28):
Yeah, yeah, you're singing my tune.
I love all those things.
Neil Markey (45:33):
They're all good things.
Michele Folan (45:34):
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing those,Neil.
Where can the listeners findyou and find Beckley Retreats?
Neil Markey (45:42):
Yeah, we're online.
So if you Google BeckleyRetreats, we'll come up.
It's just beckleyretreats.
com.
Google Beckley Retreats willcome up.
It's just beckleyretreatscom.
We're on Instagram and Facebookand LinkedIn and we do.
You know we have a.
If you send us an email,welcome at Beckley Retreats or
info at Beckley Retreats, we'resuper responsive.
There's a place on our websitewhere you can book a one-on-one
(46:06):
call.
So you know there's plenty ofavailability for those, and we
know that these experiences formany they're new, and so people
have a lot of questions and it'sa big decision to kind of make
an investment like this and comedo one of these, and so we'll
take as much time as needed.
It is not uncommon for us tohave two or three calls with
(46:28):
someone and then they want us tospeak with their husband or
wife, or then they want to speakwith the facilitator.
We're happy to kind of do allthose things so that people have
everything they need to feelreally good about coming down.
Michele Folan (46:42):
I love that.
Neil Markey (46:43):
I love that.
Yeah, we have chat on ourwebsite and I'm like we should
put that this is actually a realhuman and they can text us.
It's not a bot.
It's not a bot.
We're not bots.
I'm like that's a uniqueselling point.
Michele Folan (47:00):
It is actually.
Neil Markey (47:01):
You can actually talk to a person.
Michele Folan (47:02):
Yeah.
Neil Markey (47:03):
Yeah, we're trying to kind of keep it really
thoughtful and connect in a realway and not just, you know, be
super transactional about it.
Michele Folan (47:13):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing that and thank
you for bringing this topic tothe show Again.
I just want to put things outthere for people who may really
want to dig a little deeper, andyou know whether you're
struggling with something or youjust want to dig a little
deeper and you know whetheryou're you're struggling with
something or you're you justwant to take your, your mind to
(47:34):
a new place and and, as like Isaid, clear the pipes.
You know, I think this issomething to consider, and so,
Neil Markey, thank you so muchfor being a guest today.
Neil Markey (47:45):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Michele Folan (47:48):
Hey, thanks for tuning in.
Please rate and review the showwhere you listen to the podcast
.
And did you know that Askingfor a Friend is available now to
listen on YouTube?
You can subscribe to thepodcast there as well.
Your support is appreciated andit helps others find the show.
Thank you.
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