February 17, 2025 • 51 mins
What happens when a seasoned career takes an unexpected turn in the middle of a global pandemic? I found myself facing that very question, jobless and searching for purpose. Join me as we unpack midlife career journeys with career expert Julie Bauke, who brings over 25 years of experience to the table. Together, we explore the challenges and opportunities for women over 50 in a rapidly evolving workforce that now includes Gen Z. Julie's insights reveal how viewing our careers as a series of chapters can empower women to leverage their skills and experiences, even after career interruptions.
Feeling stuck or uncertain about your career path? You're not alone. In this episode, we tackle common feelings of discontent, transforming them into starting points for self-discovery and career fulfillment. By reflecting on what truly matters in your professional life, we share strategies for taking actionable steps toward a more satisfying career. Whether it's embracing the fear of failure or choosing change over stagnation, this conversation is about understanding where you are and where you want to be, offering clarity and determination for the journey ahead.
Our discussion goes further, addressing the critical aspects of salary negotiations and the power of mentorship. With a focus on intergenerational relationships, we highlight how younger professionals can benefit from the wisdom of seasoned mentors. Julie shares strategies for successful salary negotiations, stressing the importance of market data over personal financial needs. We aim to equip all women with the tools they need to take control of their careers, emphasizing readiness for unexpected changes in the job market. Through stories and advice, we aspire to inspire women to confidently navigate their career paths and embrace their inherent value.
You can find Julie Bauke at:
https://www.instagram.com/julieonthejob/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliebauke/
_________________________________________
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michele Folan (00:00):
Even if you're not in the midst of a full-blown
career.
I believe this episode isvaluable for all women.
We're not going to just bediscussing mature women in the
corporate world.
If you have a daughter or otherfemale family member who is
just entering the workforce oris currently employed, this show
will provide professionalguidance as we navigate the
(00:22):
sometimes uncertain waters ofthe workplace, and much of what
we discuss are things that wewish we would have known back in
the day.
Health, wellness, fitness andeverything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
(00:44):
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Back in 2020, when I lost my jobright before the pandemic
shutdown, I went into a careerspiral.
No one seemed to be hiring.
I was in my mid-50s and reallydidn't want to take a job, just
(01:06):
to have a job.
I used this precious time as arespite to figure out what was
really important to me, but as Iwas still struggling to find a
good fit, I enlisted the help oftoday's guests to help me
navigate this era in my life andto provide insights into this
new job market, and boy am Iglad I did.
(01:30):
Julie Bauke believes that we alldeserve careers that serve our
lives.
Her 25-plus years of experienceworking with executives,
professional athletes andcareer-focused people of all
industries and professionsbrings practical inspiration on
how to live our best careerlives from start to finish.
Julie is a sought-afternational media expert, workshop
(01:53):
facilitator and keynote speaker.
Julie's been featured by morethan 100 prominent media outlets
, including CNBC, money Magazineand TV segments, with the
Scripps News Network andSinclair Broadcasting appearing
on their TV stations.
Nationwide, she is a regularcontributor on the top radio
stations in New York, chicago,dallas and San Francisco, san
(02:15):
Diego, los Angeles and Miami.
She is the author of StopPeeing on your Shoes Avoiding
the Seven Mistakes that Screw Upyour Job Search, and the
creator of Career Catalyst anintentional career management
experience.
And I will also say she was oneof my very first guests on the
(02:36):
podcast, and that was way backin episode three.
Julie, can you believe that?
Wow?
Julie Bauke (02:43):
So I'm kind of an OG here, huh.
Michele Folan (02:45):
Yes, yes, you are .
But I'm so glad we reconnectedbecause I'm working with clients
now and many of them are stillin the workforce or they are at
that point in their life wherethey are empty nesters and
they're wanting to get back intothe workforce and I thought,
(03:09):
hmm, this is such a great topicto broach again and so welcome
to the show.
Julie Bauke (03:16):
Thank you.
We're talking about my favoritesubject today.
We're talking to my favoriteaudience women.
Women who are stuck, struggling, confused about what's next.
Michele Folan (03:28):
Yeah, and most of my audience is 50 plus women
and I'm curious what you'reseeing in the job market for
mature women right now.
Julie Bauke (03:41):
The job market.
Let's just call it.
The workplace is a mess,especially post-COVID.
Everybody is.
People are trying to figure outeverything, from return to the
office hybrid to how do I manageall the pieces of my life.
Gen Z has come into theworkforce, michelle.
This past summer we had themoment when Gen Z started to
(04:05):
outnumber boomers in theworkforce, and so their time to
run the workplace is comingquickly, and so it's easy to see
especially when you have such adifference between how Gen Z
looks at work and how boomerslook at work and older Xers it's
easy to start to feel like youdon't matter anymore.
(04:28):
But at the same time, I thinkif we reframe how we look at our
careers and our lives, we canmove forward in a way where
we're much more likely to getwhat we want.
But it really does require areframing.
That's very different than whenwe came into the job market.
We were wearing those god-awfulpantyhose and suits with those
(04:53):
bow ties, and you think, justthe change we've seen since we
were in our twenties to now.
So we have to change ourthinking along with that.
Michele Folan (05:03):
Well, we didn't even have computers.
No, gosh, we didn't have cellphones.
Julie Bauke (05:09):
Oh no, I mean right , we had pink message slips If
someone wanted to call you.
You got a pile of those pinkmessage slips.
Michele Folan (05:17):
I was in sales, Julie, I knew where all the
great pay phones were aroundtown that had a bathroom in the
building.
Julie Bauke (05:24):
Oh, my gosh.
Michele Folan (05:24):
Because that's how I was able to communicate
with people.
Julie Bauke (05:27):
Yeah, yeah.
So much has changed, so I thinkwe're due for another look at
how we consider work in ourcareer, role in our lives.
Michele Folan (05:37):
Yeah.
So what do women need to bethinking about before they even
start, before they even putwords onto a resume?
Julie Bauke (05:48):
One of the things that has always really
frustrated me is you'll have awoman who was in a high-powered
job, a great job, she did reallywell, she was competent, she
was paid well.
She leaves the workforce tohave children.
Maybe she's out of theworkforce for five years, maybe
it's eight to 10 years.
I have talked to so many womenwho believe, at the end of that
(06:09):
period where they're trying tocome back, that they're fully
starting from zero Because weforget about all that great
experience we had.
We personally decide, oh, it'snot relevant, nobody cares, and
we feel like we're only goingback into the workforce as a mom
, and that's a huge mistakebecause we are the collection of
(06:30):
all of our experiences.
So here's the reframe I'd liketo lead with.
Today we all are very acceptingof the concept of life has
chapters.
We have our chapter as astudent, as a single person,
maybe as a part of a partnership.
We take care of our kids.
We might have health issues.
(06:50):
You know we chat and just thinkabout how life changes when
your kids get their driver'slicense.
Yeah, so we enter.
Our life has chapters and ourcareer can also have chapters.
And so this idea that whenyou're 22, you get on a ladder
and you climb for 40 plus yearsis ridiculous.
(07:10):
It's always been ridiculous.
But now we're starting to seeand I give Gen Z credit for this
that we have to look at ourcareers.
We have to look our careerneeds to serve our lives versus
having our lives serve ourcareer.
Yeah, especially as women, withall of the things we're
responsible for, we all know bythis point we can't do it all at
(07:34):
the same time.
And so when you are, you mighthave your chapter early career,
where you were in sales, youwere in sales leadership, you
did all these great things.
You get out of the workforce,maybe for a few years until your
kids get into kindergarten orfirst grade that was a different
chapter.
Maybe you did volunteer work,maybe you helped the school,
maybe you did some little bit ofconsulting part time that's
(07:56):
another chapter.
And then, when you're ready toreenter, that's another chapter.
And you bring with you all thelearnings from those two first
chapters.
Right, and so, instead ofthinking, well, here I am, you
know who wants to hire an oldmom, which is what I hear women
say.
No, you have to.
(08:17):
Your story is a collection ofall of your chapters that you
bring with you.
You leave nothing behind.
All of your chapters that youbring with you, you leave
nothing behind.
So if you can get your mindaround that concept, I think
that's a great start to startmoving forward powerfully.
Michele Folan (08:32):
If you have Gen Z interviewing you, they're the
hiring manager.
Does Gen Z see it that way?
Julie Bauke (08:41):
You know, they probably see us just like we did
when we were younger,interviewing people a lot older
than us.
It's a challenge.
It's because if you look liketheir mom or their grandma, it's
hard for them to see you anydifferently.
So the worst thing you can dowhen you're interviewing with
somebody who's much younger isdiscount them.
(09:02):
Act like you're interviewingwith somebody who's much younger
, is discount them.
Act like you're smarter, wiser,any of that stuff because they
see right through it.
Gen Z is all about authenticity,and so when you think about
what do you, as a person over acertain age, bring to the market
?
It's wisdom, it's experience,it's the ability to collaborate,
(09:23):
communicate, etc.
Those are the things that weare better at, because the
complaints have been that Gen Zis bad at all those things.
But at the same time, I firmlybelieve it's up to each one of
us to stay relevant in ourfields.
In our fields, it doesn't meanwe have to be an expert on AI,
(09:48):
as an example, but we do need toknow how AI is being used in
our field or in our industry asan example.
So if you walk in with anythingthat looks like I'm a boomer
and I mean the way you dress,the way you speak, if you are
patronizing in any way and ifyou say anything like well, you
know, I don't really know thatand I don't really care to learn
(10:10):
it anything that smacks of theway we did it was the right way
and you guys don't know whatyou're doing.
You will absolutely, you willabsolutely bond that interview
and so it's.
You have to really check yourbiases at the door, and I say
that I would say that both ways.
Michele Folan (10:27):
So what you're saying is don't show up in your
navy blue suit it may have anice sheen to it by now and tan
and tan pantyhose.
Julie Bauke (10:39):
Tan pantyhose that come in those little plastic
eggs, yeah, yeah.
But you know, when you'respeaking of dress, I mean, how
do you dress?
So you know it depends.
If you are going to interviewat a bank or an insurance
company, then you do need todress more conservatively than
if you're going to interview ata social media marketing firm or
(11:01):
a nonprofit.
You have to know theenvironment.
Firm or a nonprofit, you haveto know the environment.
You have to show that you knowhow to read the environment,
that you are aware and that youcan fit in, and you're not going
to walk in and start saying,yeah, I'm here now.
I'm going to tell you how wedid it back in my day.
That is such a turnoff and it'sgoing to guarantee that you're
(11:24):
not going to get that nextinterview because every
generation thinks they'resmarter than the ones behind
them.
Michele Folan (11:30):
You said something to me years ago and it
was one of the things that ischallenging for you as a career
coach is that people don'treally know what they want, or
they're not able to define whatthat is.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Julie Bauke (11:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So imagine you're getting inyour car.
You're like I would like to goto the XYZ restaurant I heard
it's great.
And if you get in your car andyou just start driving without
knowing actually where you'regoing, then you won't get there.
Career is the same way.
You have to start with the endin mind.
Google Maps only works if youput a destination in.
(12:12):
Now you might find thatrestaurant, but it's not going
to be the best way to get thereand so hopelessly and helplessly
wandering through a careerchange or a job search is really
, really counterproductive.
So this is what keeps peoplefrom starting they're starting a
change.
Some of the things that I hearpeople say is things like I
(12:36):
still don't know what I want tobe when I grow up, and that's
one of those things I cringebecause I want to say look in
the mirror, you're not 18.
You're grown up, you got tofigure it out.
It's very infantilizing and Ithink it's also.
It takes away your power.
The second one is I don't knowwhat I want, but I know it's not
this, and I always say well,that's a starting point.
(12:58):
You know, sometimes knowingwhat we don't want is the same
as can help narrow.
So the idea is you've got thisfunnel.
At the very top are people whotruly are 1,000% confused, and I
always think of a friend ofmine when his daughter was three
(13:19):
or four.
She said when I grow up, Ieither want to be a ballerina or
the person that picks deadanimals up off the road.
It's like that is truly twovery different things.
And she works in a museum now.
So when we are way up at thetop of the funnel, I have no
earthly idea what I want to do.
(13:40):
I always say that's a load ofcrap.
Of course you do.
I have no earthly idea what Iwant to do.
I always say that's a load ofcrap.
Of course you do.
You know what you want to do.
You know what you know.
You at least know.
Maybe you don't know what it'scalled, so you don't know what
to look for.
But when you start asking peoplequestions, and one of the
questions I will ask is thinkabout your current situation.
(14:00):
Scale of one to 10.
Okay, how happy are you?
Scale of one to 10.
Okay, how happy are you?
Let's say I say okay, I'm afour.
Okay, what is it that wouldhave to change?
So what in your current rolemakes it a four for you.
What would have to change tomove that up to a five, six,
seven, eight?
In other words, what do youwant to do more of, what do you
want to do less of?
What do you never want to doagain?
(14:21):
And if you just start with thatand people generally, with some
prodding, can start getting tothat and so you start narrowing
from in my next role, I wantmore of this, less of this.
Okay, that scoots you towardmore career happiness.
So self-knowledge I thinkeverything good in the world
starts with self-knowledge andself-awareness, and so
(14:42):
understanding that if you're ina job that's not a good fit for
you, it doesn't mean you'rewrong, it just means you're in
the wrong job or you're in thewrong place, you're in the wrong
organization, and so diagnosingand figuring out what's not
working where you are is thefirst step toward getting closer
to something that is going tobe a good fit, the first step
toward getting closer tosomething that is going to be a
(15:04):
good fit.
Michele Folan (15:09):
Do you ever find that sometimes we have a problem
defining what it is that wereally want to do?
Because it's that fear offailure, that thing that I know
I really want to do.
I'm afraid that no one's goingto hire me for that, so I'm not
going to verbalize that.
Julie Bauke (15:23):
Yeah, you know what we all fall into, that.
I fall into that when I thinkabout pitching a big media
outlet or I think about, ooh,what if I could do that?
A lot of my first instinct is,no, I can't do that.
I think we do that.
I think that head talk is sostrong and it keeps us from
(15:45):
reaching out and tryingsomething.
And so sometimes if you say,all right, what does that look
like?
So what address did I put in myGPS?
Man, this is really where Iwant to end up.
How can I, what can I do tomove toward it?
Because sometimes, seeing whereyou want to go and where you
are now, the distance is sogreat that it makes us want to
(16:09):
go back to bed and pull thecovers over our head.
And so how can you move towardit?
And when I talk to people a lotof times who are miserable,
what's your career happiness ona scale of one to 10?
A two?
I'm like, okay, let's talkabout that.
What is the impact in your lifeof being miserable at work?
And you know it's going to behealth, it's going to be
(16:29):
relationships, it's going to beI don't go out, it's my energy
level when you are wearing apair of shoes that don't fit,
not only do your feet hurt, butyour knees hurt, your hip hurts,
and Not only do your feet hurt,but your knees hurt, your hip
hurts and pretty soon you're allbent over.
So if you're going to stay at atwo or a three or a four,
there's a price to that.
It's painful, and so you haveto decide.
(16:51):
It's painful in one way, butmoving forward and moving
towards something that's betteris difficult.
It challenges all of yourbeliefs about yourself.
It makes you feel vulnerable.
It's a different kind of pain,and so I always say pick your
pain.
Look, if you're in a role andyou're a six on a scale of one
to 10, and you've got a year ortwo left to work, go for it.
(17:13):
And then go do something funand go do something you know.
Stay for a couple of years ifyou need to, and if six is good
enough for you because you getyour real jollies outside of
work coaching kids, you know,doing other things it's okay.
This is not.
But the question is you have tofigure out where you are before
you can figure out where youwant to be.
(17:34):
And once you get those twothings figured out, then the
path becomes much easier.
It's not easy.
Michele Folan (17:40):
It's easier.
Hey, julie, we're going to takea quick break and we will be
right back.
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(18:02):
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(18:23):
Check out the show notes of thisepisode and shoot me an email.
I'd love to learn more aboutyou and your challenges.
Okay, we are back.
Julie, I did have a questionfor you.
So when you're working with aclient and I'll use me as an
example been in the workforcefor a very long time you are
(18:47):
looking for a new opportunity,but you don't want to go back to
the industry that you have themost experience in because you
just can't do it right.
Yeah, how does someone vet whattheir qualifications would be,
(19:09):
what their talents will be?
Do you put them through somekind of a testing or evaluation
process?
We don't.
Julie Bauke (19:18):
We're just really good at pulling it out of you.
Now we'll say to people do youhave any test results?
Like, have you doneMyers-Briggs?
Have you done strengths?
Have you done the Harrison?
Have you done the Berkman?
You know, have you done?
Let us look at them.
You know, let's look at themtogether.
But there is the thing aboutthis process is there is no
magic answer to any of this, andso when people are really asked
(19:41):
the right questions and they'reat all self-aware, the answer
is there.
But one of the things youmentioned I don't want to lose
this you mentioned somethingabout changing industries, and I
think here's one of the thingsthat happens is, I've been in
the insurance industry for 30years but I don't want to be
anymore.
But I only know insurance.
Like, okay, let's separate outyour skills from your knowledge.
(20:03):
Okay, so, yes, you know theinsurance industry Great, that
piece may not be usable anymore,but your skills, in other words
, what can you do?
What do you know?
What have you developed whileworking in the insurance
industry?
In almost 100% of the cases,your skill set.
(20:24):
You have to separate out whatyou did from where you did it.
The things that you've learnedare transferable the phrase
transferable skills.
You have transferable skills,and so you have to find, and if
you are really let's just takean example If you're really good
at project management, youreally have a real proclivity
(20:47):
for understanding technology.
So let's say, just those twothings.
But you've only ever done it inthe insurance industry.
I guarantee you that those twoskill sets, pulled out from
where you did it, are going tobe very attractive to maybe a
logistics company, amanufacturing company, a bank.
So you have to separateyourself out.
(21:08):
It's the nouns which is whereyou did it, the verbs are what
you did, okay.
And so you have to getcomfortable identifying and
marketing yourself based on whatyou did and what your
accomplishments are, so thatother organizations be like I
need that, we need you here.
They don't care.
You did it at an insuranceagency or an insurance company.
(21:29):
So it's that separating it out,yeah that's what happened with
me.
Michele Folan (21:33):
You all kind of helped me divide that, and so I
did make a huge shift to anotherindustry and the people process
, that whole people managementthing.
That's all very consistent.
Really, no matter where you go,it's just learning the nuances
of a new industry and so I justyeah yeah, that's the easy stuff
(21:56):
to learn.
Julie Bauke (21:56):
If you bring somebody in with skills, they
can learn the nouns becausethey're bringing the verbs with
them.
Yeah, that's the easy stuff,you know.
If you bring somebody in fromanother insurance company, they
might not have great skills.
Yeah, you know.
So which would you rather?
Michele Folan (22:09):
have if you were hiring.
I was thinking about this and Iknow you work with a lot of big
corporations and so you'reseeing people in the workforce
that are very young and you'reseeing you know women our age in
the workforce that are veryyoung and you're seeing you know
women our age in the workforce.
And because a lot of mylisteners have daughters that
(22:30):
are probably 20s, 30s and in theworkforce, what are you seeing
most often right now with womenin the workforce that you would
like to change, like to change?
Julie Bauke (22:42):
Okay, you know I always say I would love to be
able to take what I learned byworking for the last 40 years
and inject it or put it in pillform and give it to these
20-something young women.
What I'm seeing, especiallywith younger women first of all,
(23:05):
sadly, michelle, they're stilldealing with some of the crap we
dealt with Sexual harassment.
Some of those sort of thingsare still being mansplained to.
It is still, in a lot of ways,in corporate America, a man's
world, and so they are stillstruggling with that.
What I love about thisgeneration, though, is that they
are much more willing to speakup, to look for solutions, and
(23:31):
what they're missing ismentorship.
What they're missing is what I'mfinding is women in their
twenties and thirties aredesperate to glean the wisdom
that older women have and noteverybody, because you know, we
all are subject to the okay,boomer stuff, you know, but the
(23:51):
wisdom that we have gleaned inthe last decades is something
that I just wish we could goback, because you get to a
certain age where you just don'tgive a darn anymore and you're
just like I'm going to say whatI think.
You know.
I wish we could find a way toreach back and give all of that
to these younger women, becausethey want mentors.
(24:13):
They don't know how to handlebeing sexually harassed, they
don't and they don't trust humanresources, which I came from
human resources, I get it.
Hr works for the company, and sowhat they're missing, and what
I think all women are missing,is this true understanding of
what your value is, what you dobring to whatever party you show
up at, and then truly valuingthat and then leveraging that to
(24:38):
get what you want.
And that is somethingunfortunately we just to get
what you want, and that issomething unfortunately we just
some of us never learn it.
Some of us learn it, but ittakes a long time, and so if I
could make a little pill thathas that has anything in it, it
would be the ability tounderstand, embrace, express and
leverage your value, which isyour power.
(24:59):
Your power comes from yourvalue.
If I could just come up withthat and just drop it into
people's head or young women'shead or inject it, look out,
because it's just something youlearn when you're almost too old
to take advantage of it fully,yeah, oh God.
Michele Folan (25:15):
I'm nodding Because, oh my gosh, if I knew
then what I know now.
Yep, there were so manysituations where, if I had
bigger kahunis, I could havereally changed the trajectory of
some situations in my career,and so I want that for my
(25:37):
daughters, right, yeah, yeah.
So how do we?
Julie Bauke (25:39):
start?
How do we start?
Yeah, so how do we start?
How do we start?
I think mentorship, I thinkintergenerational relationships
and friendships are critical,and they want that too.
My social media person is 27.
She has all of her friendsfollowing me and they're're all,
(26:01):
like man, wish I could talk toher.
Can she come talk to us?
I really ask her this, ask herthis, and so we're trying to
figure out ways to actually getthat wisdom that we've collected
into the younger generation,because they are more fearless
than we are.
They're fearless.
They do, in some ways,understand their value better
(26:21):
than we do.
We are in a more inclusiveworld.
But then how do you take actionon that?
You can know it, but you haveto take action on it and begin
to leverage that to get what youwant, which, oh, by the way,
you also have to know what youwant, which is another tricky
question.
Michele Folan (26:38):
Yeah, so anyone listening who has daughters in
their 20s and 30s, this isdefinitely something that if you
can coach them and mentor themto get that mentorship, or if
there's a family friend who iswell-respected in business, then
that you can pair them up.
I just think there's so muchvalue in that and making those
(27:01):
connections for our young people.
Julie Bauke (27:03):
There is but you've got to be.
One of the mistakes I seepeople make when it comes to
mentoring is I've had people sayto me can you mentor me?
And my first response is whoa,what does that mean?
What do I have to do?
How much time is it going totake?
But if you're specific in yourask, so let's say that you're a
woman in corporate America andyou're getting started in your
career and you see that anybodyit could be a woman or a man are
(27:26):
just killer at running meetingsOn time.
Things get done.
Everybody knows what to do whenthey leave and they end on time
.
You're like man.
You could say to that personyou know so-and-so.
I really.
Here's what I see.
First of all, they're going tobe so flattered that you're
mentioning it.
Here's what I see.
You are so good at runningmeetings.
(27:47):
Could I buy you a cup of coffeeand just get some ideas about
how you develop that skillset,because I'd really like to be as
good as you are at it someday.
That's a doable.
That's a yes.
Can you mentor me for the restof my career?
That's a no.
Michele Folan (28:03):
Yeah, please, god , no you know for an ask.
Julie Bauke (28:05):
Be specific about your ask, because when people
come to me and say so-and-sosaid I should talk to you, I
don't know what to do with therest of my life.
Michele Folan (28:14):
Do you?
Realize what you just asked methat is such a tall order.
It is no, we can't solve thatwith coffee at Starbucks.
Julie Bauke (28:26):
No, I wish we could Again that pill, that injection
.
We need to be less Botox andmore injections of wisdom.
Yeah exactly.
Michele Folan (28:37):
It's funny because my daughter I have two
daughters and the older onetexted me last night.
She said can we talk at 7 amtomorrow morning?
I need some help with a worksituation.
I'm going, let's just talk now.
I just can't think about this.
You know all night what is thisand we came to a solution for
(29:02):
her to approach this, but notall.
I mean.
Julie Bauke (29:05):
I hope you were flattered by that request.
Michele Folan (29:07):
Oh, and I am.
Julie Bauke (29:07):
It means that this person sees you as a wise okay,
I hate the word a wise elder,well, yeah whatever.
Michele Folan (29:16):
Elder, yeah, but a lot of people don't have that
sounding board, and so I thinkyou know it's good to find your
person, that you can pick theirbrain every once in a while and
you know it's interesting, Iknow that this is such.
Julie Bauke (29:35):
This is an area where everybody struggles.
So when I do like radio, like,there's always a producer
that'll talk to me beforehand.
Hey, you know, hang on, blah,blah, blah.
After I've been on a few timesthey'll say, hey, do you have a
minute to answer a question?
And they, you know, and theyhave a career question for me.
And so everybody struggles withthis and it's, you know, how do
(29:59):
you?
And it's hard.
This is why two thirds or morepeople, consistently that number
is consistent are disengagedand unhappy at work.
They don't have anybody tobounce things off of, and so
they get stuck.
They get stuck between theirears, yeah, and that's just kind
of a dark place to be whenyou're not happy.
Michele Folan (30:17):
So I do have a question, because this was
always tough for me.
Can we talk about salarynegotiations?
Sure, what guidance can youprovide there?
Julie Bauke (30:28):
When you are going to go in and ask okay, two
things.
Let's say you're getting readyto start a new job and so you're
in the offer stage.
We talk about and we hear aboutthe wage gap, and part of the
reason for the wage gap part ofit is that women are really
unlikely much less likely thanmen to negotiate on their
(30:49):
starting salary, and so youcould very well find yourself
sitting next to Bob over here.
You're doing exactly the samethings, but Bob is making $5,000
more than you, and you had thesame experience because Bob
asked for more money.
Hr people will tell you thereis room to negotiate almost
every time, but women leave iton the table, and so companies
(31:13):
aren't going to come back and go.
You know, ask for more, there'smore.
They're going to consider thata win if they got you for 5,000
less than they got Bob for.
Should it be that way?
Of course not, but it is.
And so there's when you'restarting a job.
Understand what are the marketrates, what are competitors
paying, and don't go by.
(31:35):
Well, I was making 70 and nowthey're going to give me a 5%
increase.
I think that's fair.
Don't use your last salary asthe benchmark.
Use what the market is payingas a benchmark.
And then there's the other,where you're at work.
I have a story here.
If you're at work and you lookaround, you look at the market,
(31:56):
you happen to find out whatother people are making.
You see what maybe even newpositions at your company are
paying for what you're doing.
You arm yourself withinformation.
One of the biggest mistakespeople make when they ask for a
raise is they tie it to theirpersonal needs.
My rent went up.
I need a raise.
It's not my problem, right?
(32:17):
So you have to tie.
That's not a good reason.
It's a good reason for you, butit's not compelling.
Anytime you ask for a raise,you need to make a business case
so that it makes sense to thecompany.
So you do that two things byunderstanding what the market's
paying and if you've hadrecruiters or people contact,
you share that and then showyour value.
(32:39):
Here's what I've done in thelast year.
If you are a subpar performer,you have no standing to ask for
an increase.
Sorry, you're not going to getit.
But if you are a good, verygood, above average performer
who's valuable to the companyand you can show how what you do
adds value to the company andyou're armed with market data.
It increases your chances ofgetting a raise.
(33:01):
But it also says I'm payingattention.
I'm paying attention, I may beattractive to other companies,
but if you're a heads down,company loyal person, you're
going to get screwed.
I hate to tell you.
This is such great advice.
So let me tell you this storyreal quick, because I think this
is I got a story for you too.
Okay, story time.
Okay, I think this story isvery telling.
(33:23):
A young woman I know, who'sabout 30, was working at a
financial planning firm and shewas woefully underpaid to market
and she was the glue that heldthe organization together and
she gathered her market data.
She went in and asked for whatwas fair given her role, and
(33:44):
they came back with some mealymouth response.
So she tried again.
They're like you're just moneyhungry.
Michele Folan (33:49):
Really.
Julie Bauke (33:51):
You know, and she was like and so organizations
will use those sorts of thingsto make you feel like you're
wrong for asking.
So I said to her get out ofthere.
Get out of there.
And she did.
Oh good, she went back andshe's like okay, all right, if
you think I'm money hungry forasking to be paid, commence her
(34:13):
with my value.
And oh, by the way, I know whatmy value is and you've already
told me what my value is and I'mshowing you there's a $20,000
differential here.
Then this is not a situation inwhich we can come to a mutually
beneficial conclusion, and so,bye-bye, they're a loss,
absolutely.
You've got to have thatstrength, but you have to
(34:35):
operate from a place ofknowledge and you always have to
be ready.
I say be ready to stay, beready to go, have your data.
Michele Folan (34:42):
Gotta have your data.
You know, this happened to meback in like 1989, 1990,
somewhere early 90s, and I gotwind that our raises were not
consistent based on whether ornot we were a guy or a female,
(35:05):
whether or not we were a guy ora female, and that what I heard
was oh well, he's married andhis wife stays home.
Julie Bauke (35:14):
Oh yeah, oh, that makes me crazy and oh.
Michele Folan (35:20):
But you know you're married, you know your
husband works too, so you don'tneed as much.
Yep, that was a real thing backthen.
Julie Bauke (35:28):
Yep, it was, it sure was, and I think it still
is, but it's probably more of anunderground conversation.
Okay, yeah, but yeah,absolutely, that is irrelevant.
It's irrelevant, should be.
It's not up to right.
I mean, the guy with the wifethat stays at home might also
have a multimillion dollarinheritance.
I mean, you can't.
You can't make decisions basedon your perception of people's
(35:49):
personal needs.
You just can't, yeah.
Michele Folan (35:51):
That was just terrible.
I would love for you to share aclient success story, you know.
Julie Bauke (35:56):
I was.
Let me tell you why I was so.
I you know I was thinking aboutthis recently.
So we had a client who was inmarketing and she had a side
business where she made jewelryand it was going really well.
She had her, she had her supplychain figured out, there was
(36:17):
demand and she it was a hobbythat turned into a full-time
career.
But she was in that space whereshe was afraid to make the leap
and she was afraid to say I'mgoing to give all this up.
And so we went through thisprocess of okay, you have a
second income, you already havesuccess and interest in your
jewelry, you already have this,you already have that.
(36:40):
Okay, so you have a bucket overhere that's full with your
regular job, and then you havethis little bucket that you're
trying to fill because you'dlike to do this full time.
What's it going to take for youto switch, to take all of your
energy?
If you believe and the market'stelling you that there is a
(37:02):
need for that, there is a demandfor what you're producing, then
it really is ripping thebandaid off, the hairy arm and
jumping in.
And we will always say what'sthe worst thing that could
happen?
Well, my family?
If I don't get the jewelrybusiness up and running in a
month, my family's going to beliving in a van.
Okay, that's bad.
Michele Folan (37:21):
That's bad.
Julie Bauke (37:21):
We don't want that.
No, we don't.
That's bad.
We don't want that.
No, we don't.
So what can we do to strengthenyour confidence that this
jewelry business is going totake off?
And both are one of our othercoaches and I looked at her.
We're like dude, do this, Dothis.
We're here telling you, asprofessionals, you're ready to
(37:43):
do this.
And so she did, and she's crazysuccessful.
I mean, she has expanded herline.
She is just wildly successful.
So it was that moment where.
So you have to look at where amI, where am I trying to go?
And then what you know, what isit around me, what are the
unknowns, what are the knownsand what is the worst thing that
(38:04):
can happen.
And if you can live with theworst thing that could happen,
then do it.
And, Michele, I'd also arguethat you're a success story.
Michele Folan (38:12):
Well, I did something similar, right, didn't
you?
Yeah, I did, and it was scaryas hell.
Julie Bauke (38:19):
Yes, but now, as you look back, when you look
back at that moment, when youmade that decision, how do you
look back upon it now, like, howdo?
Michele Folan (38:29):
you view it now.
I wish I hadn't been sotentative and nervous, because
it was a year ago that Iresigned from my full-time
corporate job and I almost threwup as I was calling my boss.
You know who I think wassurprised, but it was, you know,
(38:52):
it wasn't terrible, right, andI've told other people this
story.
But three days after I resignedI went and went to a psychic.
Oh yeah, and I walked in andhe's like whoa, whoa, what is
going on with you?
I'd never met this personbefore.
(39:14):
And he totally picked up on myvibe, my nervous vibe, right,
that stress up to the ceilingkind of thing, and so, but yeah,
and in hindsight it you know,now that I've been doing this
almost a year, it's coming up,it'll be a year end of February.
Yeah, it's.
(39:35):
Yeah, it frees your soul onceyou give yourself the
opportunity to step out of yourcomfort zone, and that's exactly
what I did.
Julie Bauke (39:44):
And what another.
I think when we go through thatcalculation, another thing we
forget.
What we're doing is we'recomparing what we have to what
we want, okay, and sometimes weimbue what we have with all
these wonderful characteristicslike I'm never going to, you
know I, I'm never going to losethis job.
(40:07):
We believe this wholeemployer-employee loyalty thing.
We are pledging our loyalty, inthat case, to a job in an
organization that would let usgo tomorrow if they thought they
could live without us.
And so to stay in what feelssafe isn't really safe.
It just isn't safe.
I mean, we like to think it is,we tell ourselves.
(40:30):
It is, in our experience,getting people to really
understand that you have to bein charge of your career.
And here's what that looks like.
My question is always if youcame into work tomorrow and they
said we don't need you anymore,are you ready?
Are you ready to go pursuesomething else Because your
company wants you?
Until the day they don't and inour experience it takes people
(40:53):
to be laid off twice before theytruly believe that there's no
such thing as loyalty.
And there never was, therenever was.
So this employee-employerloyalty is gone crap, it never
was, there was.
You know companies didn't domajor layoffs until the 90s.
Before that they would justkeep you in a corner and just,
(41:16):
but they weren't letting, theynever let people go.
Then, as soon as it becameacceptable to have big,
broad-scale layoffs, you knowthey did it and it's never going
back.
Look at 2008.
Then look what happened in 20during COVID.
There was all this crazy hiring.
The pendulum is doing this.
It's swinging back and forthbetween.
(41:37):
It's an employer's market, it'san employee's market.
It swings back and forth withthe economy, with demographics,
with all kinds of things.
And the only way to really bein charge of your career is
always have your next step inmind, always be ready to stay,
be ready to go and to be readyto go, you've got to have your
LinkedIn profile up to date.
(41:57):
You have to have your resumealways up to date.
You have to be networking atleast once or twice a month with
different people.
You can't bury your head andgive all of your attention to
your job, because that is just aloser's game, because they
would live without you tomorrowif they could.
Michele Folan (42:11):
I love the advice about networking.
Just always kind of keepingyour hand in things, kind of
knowing what's going on outthere.
That's fantastic advice.
I love that.
Julie Bauke (42:24):
Oh yeah, I mean it is, it's so, you know.
I think everybody hears thatand goes, oh yeah, yeah, I need
to do that, but they don't do itand then they're on here.
I mean, I've seen, because Iworked for nine years with
people who just lost their jobslike in that few days, alcohol
outplacement in a few days and Inever thought this would happen
(42:44):
to me.
I don't know how they're goingto live without me.
I mean, yeah, they laid offeverybody else, but I thought I
was safe.
We get in this place where webelieve we are irreplaceable,
and I think 2008 taught peoplethat companies are cutting both
muscle and bone.
They're not cutting fat anymore, both muscle and bone.
They're not cutting fat anymorebecause it was so bad in 2008.
(43:07):
So I don't know what 2025 isgoing to bring, and the only
thing you can do is make sureyou have make sure you've got
all of your tools ready to actand that you give some thought
every once in a while.
What would I do if this allwent away tomorrow?
What would I do?
Yep and I got caught.
Michele Folan (43:28):
Yeah, but I forget.
Yeah, it was 2020 when I gotcaught and I was like whoa, but
yeah, but the pandemic bought mesome time and I'm actually very
grateful for that.
Julie Bauke (43:45):
When you look in the rear view mirror, it always
makes sense, yeah.
Michele Folan (43:48):
Oh yes, it does.
It does, and I always say itwas a gift honestly just, and
I'll leave it at that, okay,what services do you offer?
Julie Bauke (44:00):
Julie, one of the things that you know, as we come
into 2025, most of my focus asa part of our team is on women.
I am creating some fantasticcontent for women.
I speak at women's groups,whether intact inside of
companies or outsideprofessional associations.
I love to speak about careerhappiness, so I do speaking.
(44:24):
I also do webinars and otherprograms other online programs
around a whole suite of careerhappiness so I do speaking.
I also do webinars and otherprograms other online programs
around a whole suite of careertopics.
That's what I love.
We also do one-on-one coaching.
You can follow me on Instagramor TikTok.
My name is Julie on the job.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn.
But what I'm really focusing onthis year is giving women the
(44:46):
tools and the inspiration andthe kick in the seat of the
pants to get more focused andmore thoughtful around what
their possibilities are andunderstand their values.
So we can do that in.
I'm doing I've done courseworkfor women inside organizations
also their ERGs, their employeeresource groups and I'm really
looking to ramp that up in 2025,because that's really what I
(45:08):
love to do is getting wholegroups of people, of women, to
say yes, we can do this together.
So that's what we do.
We help you figure out.
And then I have other people onmy team who help you, you know,
through one-on-one coaching, tohelp you figure out.
You know, hit, figure out.
What is your, what, what shouldyou put, be putting into Google
Maps, and how do you figurethat out?
And then how do you puttogether a plan to get there?
(45:29):
So, yeah, that's what we do.
We're about career happinessperiod, end of story.
I think we all deserve it, yeah.
Michele Folan (45:36):
Yes, and Julie and her team helped me and I'm
forever grateful for that.
Julie Bauke (45:42):
I do.
Look at you, look at you, girl.
Look at you, out there doingbig things.
It's in all of us what you'vedone, michelle, it's in all of
us.
It just looks different thanwhat you're doing, right, but
doing something bigger andbetter, at least better as
defined by what we want.
It's not necessarily climbing aladder anymore.
It's about figuring out whichrung you want to sit on, and
(46:04):
then sometimes building a rungif you don't see one there.
Michele Folan (46:06):
Yeah, oh, you're just full of great little words
of wisdom.
Today, julie, I want to ask youa personal question.
What is one of your corepillars of self-care?
What's something that you dofor yourself?
That's a non-negotiable.
I take naps, woman, after myown heart.
Julie Bauke (46:24):
So you know I was thinking about this.
I naps Woman after my own heart.
So you know I was thinkingabout this.
I'm like, why do I like naps?
So I started thinking about myfamily, my family of origin, you
know, my biological family.
We were like nappers, like itwould not, it would not surprise
anybody in my family to lookover and see somebody asleep on
Christmas day in the loungechair.
So I am, so I'm so committed tonaps, and it might just be 20,
(46:50):
30 minutes, it might be an hourif I need it.
I let my body tell me what itneeds and I also get that.
I'm in a stage of life wherethat's more doable than it is
for some people.
But for me I used to feelreally guilty taking a nap in
the middle of the day.
I'm like hell with that.
That comes again with that agesort of thing, you know.
(47:11):
And for me too, now that I'mI'm you know, at I'm older, I
love waking up with an alarmclock.
I don't it doesn't mean I getup at noon and get up probably
the same time most people, but Ilove those are my little
freedoms that make me feel likeI'm indulging myself and really
give me what I need and notapologize for it.
(47:32):
And we there are people whocan't nap.
Okay, what is it that you need?
Is it a walk around the block?
You know what is it?
You need to keep yourself whereyou need to go, and I just
think women are.
So you know when I would.
Anytime I read the obituary,especially of a much older woman
on, like I read an obituary.
She was selfless, she puteverybody ahead of herself.
(47:55):
I'm like sorry, that's not theflex you think it is.
That's not good.
I'm sorry.
Don't put everybody else aheadof yourself.
What is wrong with you?
Michele Folan (48:05):
That's exactly what I try to tell my clients
you have to put yourself first,because if you don't, you're not
going to be capable of enjoyingall those wonderful moments
ahead that you have coming withyour wonderful family and your
children.
It's like, yeah.
Julie Bauke (48:28):
So the word selfish is such a trigger word for me
because I think we use it as aweapon with women.
Well, not having kids, that'sso selfish, oh really.
Self-ish.
I'm taking care of myself.
It's my life.
You don't get.
You don't get input, and Ithink that's once you start to
embrace that and that's going tobe part of that pill I put in
(48:50):
younger women Once you start toembrace that, I think that's
when real freedom starts and youcan do it.
You can get little snaps ofthat as you go through life, as
you get older.
Do not apologize for taking careof yourself.
I don't care if it's yourhusband, your boyfriend, your
mom, your kids, anybody.
(49:10):
I used to tell my kids, becauseI always worked.
When they were growing up, Isaid here's the deal You're my
number one priority, but you'renot my only priority.
And so you know me droppingeverything every minute that you
need me, me just sitting therewaiting for you to need me is
not going to happen.
Minute that you need me, mejust sitting there waiting for
you to need me is not going tohappen.
Plus, I also think, because Ihad boys, it was a really bad
(49:30):
lesson to teach them that womenare here to serve you, and so
for me it was always like I'mraising someone's husband and
someone's father potentiallyhere, and I want them to love me
for that.
I want them to appreciate thejob I did raising these boys.
And so for women, I thinkthat's just can be really a
challenge, because we've justbought into this.
We have to be everything and doeverything, and even taking an
hour to go to yoga and havingyour watch your husband agree to
(49:54):
babysit the kids how triggeringis that whole statement.
You know really, they're yourkids too, and I think younger
women are realizing that they'relike yeah, I'm not sure.
If I can't have a guy who'sgoing to be a real partner, I'm
not sure that's for me.
Michele Folan (50:09):
Yeah, maybe that's something that the Gen
Xers are going to do better thanwe did, too.
Julie Bauke (50:15):
I think they are.
I think they are.
Women are kind of you know it's.
It's unfortunately theunintended consequences.
This is a lot of men arefollowing Andrew Tate and a lot
of these men that tell them youknow you deserve a 10 out of 10
and any woman who doesn't wantyou is a bitch, and you know, I
mean it's just men aren't a lotof, especially men aren't
(50:37):
responding to that well,unfortunately.
But I love how women areshowing up for themselves and in
their own power.
Michele Folan (50:42):
Yeah, Fantastic Julie.
What is the name of yourwebsite so people can find you?
Julie Bauke (50:49):
TheBauke and it's B-A-U-K-E TheBaukeGroupcom.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn and just tell me you
heard me on Michelle's podcast.
I'd be happy to connect.
And if you are in charge ofyour internal women's group or
you're a member of aprofessional association that
has a conference coming out, Ihave a lot of great career
(51:10):
topics that a lot of them focuson women, but most of them are
gender agnostic and professionand industry agnostic too.
It's really about the processof career happiness and
everything that goes into that.
Fantastic, Julie Bauke, it wasgreat catching up.
Michele Folan (51:24):
You too, Keep going forward and being awesome
girl, Thank you.
Thanks for being here today.
Hey, thanks for tuning in.
Please rate and review the showwhere you listen to the podcast
.
And did you know that Askingfor a Friend is available now to
listen on YouTube?
You can subscribe to thepodcast there as well.
Your support is appreciated andit helps others find the show.
(51:48):
Thank you.
Even if you're not in the midst of a full-blown
career.
I believe this episode isvaluable for all women.
We're not going to just bediscussing mature women in the
corporate world.
If you have a daughter or otherfemale family member who is
just entering the workforce oris currently employed, this show
will provide professionalguidance as we navigate the
(00:22):
sometimes uncertain waters ofthe workplace, and much of what
we discuss are things that wewish we would have known back in
the day.
Health, wellness, fitness andeverything in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
(00:44):
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.
Back in 2020, when I lost my jobright before the pandemic
shutdown, I went into a careerspiral.
No one seemed to be hiring.
I was in my mid-50s and reallydidn't want to take a job, just
(01:06):
to have a job.
I used this precious time as arespite to figure out what was
really important to me, but as Iwas still struggling to find a
good fit, I enlisted the help oftoday's guests to help me
navigate this era in my life andto provide insights into this
new job market, and boy am Iglad I did.
(01:30):
Julie Bauke believes that we alldeserve careers that serve our
lives.
Her 25-plus years of experienceworking with executives,
professional athletes andcareer-focused people of all
industries and professionsbrings practical inspiration on
how to live our best careerlives from start to finish.
Julie is a sought-afternational media expert, workshop
(01:53):
facilitator and keynote speaker.
Julie's been featured by morethan 100 prominent media outlets
, including CNBC, money Magazineand TV segments, with the
Scripps News Network andSinclair Broadcasting appearing
on their TV stations.
Nationwide, she is a regularcontributor on the top radio
stations in New York, chicago,dallas and San Francisco, san
(02:15):
Diego, los Angeles and Miami.
She is the author of StopPeeing on your Shoes Avoiding
the Seven Mistakes that Screw Upyour Job Search, and the
creator of Career Catalyst anintentional career management
experience.
And I will also say she was oneof my very first guests on the
(02:36):
podcast, and that was way backin episode three.
Julie, can you believe that?
Wow?
Julie Bauke (02:43):
So I'm kind of an OG here, huh.
Michele Folan (02:45):
Yes, yes, you are .
But I'm so glad we reconnectedbecause I'm working with clients
now and many of them are stillin the workforce or they are at
that point in their life wherethey are empty nesters and
they're wanting to get back intothe workforce and I thought,
(03:09):
hmm, this is such a great topicto broach again and so welcome
to the show.
Julie Bauke (03:16):
Thank you.
We're talking about my favoritesubject today.
We're talking to my favoriteaudience women.
Women who are stuck, struggling, confused about what's next.
Michele Folan (03:28):
Yeah, and most of my audience is 50 plus women
and I'm curious what you'reseeing in the job market for
mature women right now.
Julie Bauke (03:41):
The job market.
Let's just call it.
The workplace is a mess,especially post-COVID.
Everybody is.
People are trying to figure outeverything, from return to the
office hybrid to how do I manageall the pieces of my life.
Gen Z has come into theworkforce, michelle.
This past summer we had themoment when Gen Z started to
(04:05):
outnumber boomers in theworkforce, and so their time to
run the workplace is comingquickly, and so it's easy to see
especially when you have such adifference between how Gen Z
looks at work and how boomerslook at work and older Xers it's
easy to start to feel like youdon't matter anymore.
(04:28):
But at the same time, I thinkif we reframe how we look at our
careers and our lives, we canmove forward in a way where
we're much more likely to getwhat we want.
But it really does require areframing.
That's very different than whenwe came into the job market.
We were wearing those god-awfulpantyhose and suits with those
(04:53):
bow ties, and you think, justthe change we've seen since we
were in our twenties to now.
So we have to change ourthinking along with that.
Michele Folan (05:03):
Well, we didn't even have computers.
No, gosh, we didn't have cellphones.
Julie Bauke (05:09):
Oh no, I mean right , we had pink message slips If
someone wanted to call you.
You got a pile of those pinkmessage slips.
Michele Folan (05:17):
I was in sales, Julie, I knew where all the
great pay phones were aroundtown that had a bathroom in the
building.
Julie Bauke (05:24):
Oh, my gosh.
Michele Folan (05:24):
Because that's how I was able to communicate
with people.
Julie Bauke (05:27):
Yeah, yeah.
So much has changed, so I thinkwe're due for another look at
how we consider work in ourcareer, role in our lives.
Michele Folan (05:37):
Yeah.
So what do women need to bethinking about before they even
start, before they even putwords onto a resume?
Julie Bauke (05:48):
One of the things that has always really
frustrated me is you'll have awoman who was in a high-powered
job, a great job, she did reallywell, she was competent, she
was paid well.
She leaves the workforce tohave children.
Maybe she's out of theworkforce for five years, maybe
it's eight to 10 years.
I have talked to so many womenwho believe, at the end of that
(06:09):
period where they're trying tocome back, that they're fully
starting from zero Because weforget about all that great
experience we had.
We personally decide, oh, it'snot relevant, nobody cares, and
we feel like we're only goingback into the workforce as a mom
, and that's a huge mistakebecause we are the collection of
(06:30):
all of our experiences.
So here's the reframe I'd liketo lead with.
Today we all are very acceptingof the concept of life has
chapters.
We have our chapter as astudent, as a single person,
maybe as a part of a partnership.
We take care of our kids.
We might have health issues.
(06:50):
You know we chat and just thinkabout how life changes when
your kids get their driver'slicense.
Yeah, so we enter.
Our life has chapters and ourcareer can also have chapters.
And so this idea that whenyou're 22, you get on a ladder
and you climb for 40 plus yearsis ridiculous.
(07:10):
It's always been ridiculous.
But now we're starting to seeand I give Gen Z credit for this
that we have to look at ourcareers.
We have to look our careerneeds to serve our lives versus
having our lives serve ourcareer.
Yeah, especially as women, withall of the things we're
responsible for, we all know bythis point we can't do it all at
(07:34):
the same time.
And so when you are, you mighthave your chapter early career,
where you were in sales, youwere in sales leadership, you
did all these great things.
You get out of the workforce,maybe for a few years until your
kids get into kindergarten orfirst grade that was a different
chapter.
Maybe you did volunteer work,maybe you helped the school,
maybe you did some little bit ofconsulting part time that's
(07:56):
another chapter.
And then, when you're ready toreenter, that's another chapter.
And you bring with you all thelearnings from those two first
chapters.
Right, and so, instead ofthinking, well, here I am, you
know who wants to hire an oldmom, which is what I hear women
say.
No, you have to.
(08:17):
Your story is a collection ofall of your chapters that you
bring with you.
You leave nothing behind.
All of your chapters that youbring with you, you leave
nothing behind.
So if you can get your mindaround that concept, I think
that's a great start to startmoving forward powerfully.
Michele Folan (08:32):
If you have Gen Z interviewing you, they're the
hiring manager.
Does Gen Z see it that way?
Julie Bauke (08:41):
You know, they probably see us just like we did
when we were younger,interviewing people a lot older
than us.
It's a challenge.
It's because if you look liketheir mom or their grandma, it's
hard for them to see you anydifferently.
So the worst thing you can dowhen you're interviewing with
somebody who's much younger isdiscount them.
(09:02):
Act like you're interviewingwith somebody who's much younger
, is discount them.
Act like you're smarter, wiser,any of that stuff because they
see right through it.
Gen Z is all about authenticity,and so when you think about
what do you, as a person over acertain age, bring to the market
?
It's wisdom, it's experience,it's the ability to collaborate,
(09:23):
communicate, etc.
Those are the things that weare better at, because the
complaints have been that Gen Zis bad at all those things.
But at the same time, I firmlybelieve it's up to each one of
us to stay relevant in ourfields.
In our fields, it doesn't meanwe have to be an expert on AI,
(09:48):
as an example, but we do need toknow how AI is being used in
our field or in our industry asan example.
So if you walk in with anythingthat looks like I'm a boomer
and I mean the way you dress,the way you speak, if you are
patronizing in any way and ifyou say anything like well, you
know, I don't really know thatand I don't really care to learn
(10:10):
it anything that smacks of theway we did it was the right way
and you guys don't know whatyou're doing.
You will absolutely, you willabsolutely bond that interview
and so it's.
You have to really check yourbiases at the door, and I say
that I would say that both ways.
Michele Folan (10:27):
So what you're saying is don't show up in your
navy blue suit it may have anice sheen to it by now and tan
and tan pantyhose.
Julie Bauke (10:39):
Tan pantyhose that come in those little plastic
eggs, yeah, yeah.
But you know, when you'respeaking of dress, I mean, how
do you dress?
So you know it depends.
If you are going to interviewat a bank or an insurance
company, then you do need todress more conservatively than
if you're going to interview ata social media marketing firm or
(11:01):
a nonprofit.
You have to know theenvironment.
Firm or a nonprofit, you haveto know the environment.
You have to show that you knowhow to read the environment,
that you are aware and that youcan fit in, and you're not going
to walk in and start saying,yeah, I'm here now.
I'm going to tell you how wedid it back in my day.
That is such a turnoff and it'sgoing to guarantee that you're
(11:24):
not going to get that nextinterview because every
generation thinks they'resmarter than the ones behind
them.
Michele Folan (11:30):
You said something to me years ago and it
was one of the things that ischallenging for you as a career
coach is that people don'treally know what they want, or
they're not able to define whatthat is.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Julie Bauke (11:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So imagine you're getting inyour car.
You're like I would like to goto the XYZ restaurant I heard
it's great.
And if you get in your car andyou just start driving without
knowing actually where you'regoing, then you won't get there.
Career is the same way.
You have to start with the endin mind.
Google Maps only works if youput a destination in.
(12:12):
Now you might find thatrestaurant, but it's not going
to be the best way to get thereand so hopelessly and helplessly
wandering through a careerchange or a job search is really
, really counterproductive.
So this is what keeps peoplefrom starting they're starting a
change.
Some of the things that I hearpeople say is things like I
(12:36):
still don't know what I want tobe when I grow up, and that's
one of those things I cringebecause I want to say look in
the mirror, you're not 18.
You're grown up, you got tofigure it out.
It's very infantilizing and Ithink it's also.
It takes away your power.
The second one is I don't knowwhat I want, but I know it's not
this, and I always say well,that's a starting point.
(12:58):
You know, sometimes knowingwhat we don't want is the same
as can help narrow.
So the idea is you've got thisfunnel.
At the very top are people whotruly are 1,000% confused, and I
always think of a friend ofmine when his daughter was three
(13:19):
or four.
She said when I grow up, Ieither want to be a ballerina or
the person that picks deadanimals up off the road.
It's like that is truly twovery different things.
And she works in a museum now.
So when we are way up at thetop of the funnel, I have no
earthly idea what I want to do.
(13:40):
I always say that's a load ofcrap.
Of course you do.
I have no earthly idea what Iwant to do.
I always say that's a load ofcrap.
Of course you do.
You know what you want to do.
You know what you know.
You at least know.
Maybe you don't know what it'scalled, so you don't know what
to look for.
But when you start asking peoplequestions, and one of the
questions I will ask is thinkabout your current situation.
(14:00):
Scale of one to 10.
Okay, how happy are you?
Scale of one to 10.
Okay, how happy are you?
Let's say I say okay, I'm afour.
Okay, what is it that wouldhave to change?
So what in your current rolemakes it a four for you.
What would have to change tomove that up to a five, six,
seven, eight?
In other words, what do youwant to do more of, what do you
want to do less of?
What do you never want to doagain?
(14:21):
And if you just start with thatand people generally, with some
prodding, can start getting tothat and so you start narrowing
from in my next role, I wantmore of this, less of this.
Okay, that scoots you towardmore career happiness.
So self-knowledge I thinkeverything good in the world
starts with self-knowledge andself-awareness, and so
(14:42):
understanding that if you're ina job that's not a good fit for
you, it doesn't mean you'rewrong, it just means you're in
the wrong job or you're in thewrong place, you're in the wrong
organization, and so diagnosingand figuring out what's not
working where you are is thefirst step toward getting closer
to something that is going tobe a good fit, the first step
toward getting closer tosomething that is going to be a
(15:04):
good fit.
Michele Folan (15:09):
Do you ever find that sometimes we have a problem
defining what it is that wereally want to do?
Because it's that fear offailure, that thing that I know
I really want to do.
I'm afraid that no one's goingto hire me for that, so I'm not
going to verbalize that.
Julie Bauke (15:23):
Yeah, you know what we all fall into, that.
I fall into that when I thinkabout pitching a big media
outlet or I think about, ooh,what if I could do that?
A lot of my first instinct is,no, I can't do that.
I think we do that.
I think that head talk is sostrong and it keeps us from
(15:45):
reaching out and tryingsomething.
And so sometimes if you say,all right, what does that look
like?
So what address did I put in myGPS?
Man, this is really where Iwant to end up.
How can I, what can I do tomove toward it?
Because sometimes, seeing whereyou want to go and where you
are now, the distance is sogreat that it makes us want to
(16:09):
go back to bed and pull thecovers over our head.
And so how can you move towardit?
And when I talk to people a lotof times who are miserable,
what's your career happiness ona scale of one to 10?
A two?
I'm like, okay, let's talkabout that.
What is the impact in your lifeof being miserable at work?
And you know it's going to behealth, it's going to be
(16:29):
relationships, it's going to beI don't go out, it's my energy
level when you are wearing apair of shoes that don't fit,
not only do your feet hurt, butyour knees hurt, your hip hurts,
and Not only do your feet hurt,but your knees hurt, your hip
hurts and pretty soon you're allbent over.
So if you're going to stay at atwo or a three or a four,
there's a price to that.
It's painful, and so you haveto decide.
(16:51):
It's painful in one way, butmoving forward and moving
towards something that's betteris difficult.
It challenges all of yourbeliefs about yourself.
It makes you feel vulnerable.
It's a different kind of pain,and so I always say pick your
pain.
Look, if you're in a role andyou're a six on a scale of one
to 10, and you've got a year ortwo left to work, go for it.
(17:13):
And then go do something funand go do something you know.
Stay for a couple of years ifyou need to, and if six is good
enough for you because you getyour real jollies outside of
work coaching kids, you know,doing other things it's okay.
This is not.
But the question is you have tofigure out where you are before
you can figure out where youwant to be.
(17:34):
And once you get those twothings figured out, then the
path becomes much easier.
It's not easy.
Michele Folan (17:40):
It's easier.
Hey, julie, we're going to takea quick break and we will be
right back.
Are you feeling overwhelmed bythe changes that come with
midlife, struggling with weight,energy or finding time for
yourself?
You're not alone.
I get it because I've beenthere too.
I specialize in helping midlifewomen, just like you, transform
(18:02):
their health and lives throughpersonalized nutrition and
coaching that fits your reallife.
Together, we'll tackle thoseunique challenges, whether it's
balancing your hormones, dealingwith cravings or boosting your
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It's not just about diets.
It's about reclaiming yourstrength and confidence, one
step at a time.
(18:23):
Check out the show notes of thisepisode and shoot me an email.
I'd love to learn more aboutyou and your challenges.
Okay, we are back.
Julie, I did have a questionfor you.
So when you're working with aclient and I'll use me as an
example been in the workforcefor a very long time you are
(18:47):
looking for a new opportunity,but you don't want to go back to
the industry that you have themost experience in because you
just can't do it right.
Yeah, how does someone vet whattheir qualifications would be,
(19:09):
what their talents will be?
Do you put them through somekind of a testing or evaluation
process?
We don't.
Julie Bauke (19:18):
We're just really good at pulling it out of you.
Now we'll say to people do youhave any test results?
Like, have you doneMyers-Briggs?
Have you done strengths?
Have you done the Harrison?
Have you done the Berkman?
You know, have you done?
Let us look at them.
You know, let's look at themtogether.
But there is the thing aboutthis process is there is no
magic answer to any of this, andso when people are really asked
(19:41):
the right questions and they'reat all self-aware, the answer
is there.
But one of the things youmentioned I don't want to lose
this you mentioned somethingabout changing industries, and I
think here's one of the thingsthat happens is, I've been in
the insurance industry for 30years but I don't want to be
anymore.
But I only know insurance.
Like, okay, let's separate outyour skills from your knowledge.
(20:03):
Okay, so, yes, you know theinsurance industry Great, that
piece may not be usable anymore,but your skills, in other words
, what can you do?
What do you know?
What have you developed whileworking in the insurance
industry?
In almost 100% of the cases,your skill set.
(20:24):
You have to separate out whatyou did from where you did it.
The things that you've learnedare transferable the phrase
transferable skills.
You have transferable skills,and so you have to find, and if
you are really let's just takean example If you're really good
at project management, youreally have a real proclivity
(20:47):
for understanding technology.
So let's say, just those twothings.
But you've only ever done it inthe insurance industry.
I guarantee you that those twoskill sets, pulled out from
where you did it, are going tobe very attractive to maybe a
logistics company, amanufacturing company, a bank.
So you have to separateyourself out.
(21:08):
It's the nouns which is whereyou did it, the verbs are what
you did, okay.
And so you have to getcomfortable identifying and
marketing yourself based on whatyou did and what your
accomplishments are, so thatother organizations be like I
need that, we need you here.
They don't care.
You did it at an insuranceagency or an insurance company.
(21:29):
So it's that separating it out,yeah that's what happened with
me.
Michele Folan (21:33):
You all kind of helped me divide that, and so I
did make a huge shift to anotherindustry and the people process
, that whole people managementthing.
That's all very consistent.
Really, no matter where you go,it's just learning the nuances
of a new industry and so I justyeah yeah, that's the easy stuff
(21:56):
to learn.
Julie Bauke (21:56):
If you bring somebody in with skills, they
can learn the nouns becausethey're bringing the verbs with
them.
Yeah, that's the easy stuff,you know.
If you bring somebody in fromanother insurance company, they
might not have great skills.
Yeah, you know.
So which would you rather?
Michele Folan (22:09):
have if you were hiring.
I was thinking about this and Iknow you work with a lot of big
corporations and so you'reseeing people in the workforce
that are very young and you'reseeing you know women our age in
the workforce that are veryyoung and you're seeing you know
women our age in the workforce.
And because a lot of mylisteners have daughters that
(22:30):
are probably 20s, 30s and in theworkforce, what are you seeing
most often right now with womenin the workforce that you would
like to change, like to change?
Julie Bauke (22:42):
Okay, you know I always say I would love to be
able to take what I learned byworking for the last 40 years
and inject it or put it in pillform and give it to these
20-something young women.
What I'm seeing, especiallywith younger women first of all,
(23:05):
sadly, michelle, they're stilldealing with some of the crap we
dealt with Sexual harassment.
Some of those sort of thingsare still being mansplained to.
It is still, in a lot of ways,in corporate America, a man's
world, and so they are stillstruggling with that.
What I love about thisgeneration, though, is that they
are much more willing to speakup, to look for solutions, and
(23:31):
what they're missing ismentorship.
What they're missing is what I'mfinding is women in their
twenties and thirties aredesperate to glean the wisdom
that older women have and noteverybody, because you know, we
all are subject to the okay,boomer stuff, you know, but the
(23:51):
wisdom that we have gleaned inthe last decades is something
that I just wish we could goback, because you get to a
certain age where you just don'tgive a darn anymore and you're
just like I'm going to say whatI think.
You know.
I wish we could find a way toreach back and give all of that
to these younger women, becausethey want mentors.
(24:13):
They don't know how to handlebeing sexually harassed, they
don't and they don't trust humanresources, which I came from
human resources, I get it.
Hr works for the company, and sowhat they're missing, and what
I think all women are missing,is this true understanding of
what your value is, what you dobring to whatever party you show
up at, and then truly valuingthat and then leveraging that to
(24:38):
get what you want.
And that is somethingunfortunately we just to get
what you want, and that issomething unfortunately we just
some of us never learn it.
Some of us learn it, but ittakes a long time, and so if I
could make a little pill thathas that has anything in it, it
would be the ability tounderstand, embrace, express and
leverage your value, which isyour power.
(24:59):
Your power comes from yourvalue.
If I could just come up withthat and just drop it into
people's head or young women'shead or inject it, look out,
because it's just something youlearn when you're almost too old
to take advantage of it fully,yeah, oh God.
Michele Folan (25:15):
I'm nodding Because, oh my gosh, if I knew
then what I know now.
Yep, there were so manysituations where, if I had
bigger kahunis, I could havereally changed the trajectory of
some situations in my career,and so I want that for my
(25:37):
daughters, right, yeah, yeah.
So how do we?
Julie Bauke (25:39):
start?
How do we start?
Yeah, so how do we start?
How do we start?
I think mentorship, I thinkintergenerational relationships
and friendships are critical,and they want that too.
My social media person is 27.
She has all of her friendsfollowing me and they're're all,
(26:01):
like man, wish I could talk toher.
Can she come talk to us?
I really ask her this, ask herthis, and so we're trying to
figure out ways to actually getthat wisdom that we've collected
into the younger generation,because they are more fearless
than we are.
They're fearless.
They do, in some ways,understand their value better
(26:21):
than we do.
We are in a more inclusiveworld.
But then how do you take actionon that?
You can know it, but you haveto take action on it and begin
to leverage that to get what youwant, which, oh, by the way,
you also have to know what youwant, which is another tricky
question.
Michele Folan (26:38):
Yeah, so anyone listening who has daughters in
their 20s and 30s, this isdefinitely something that if you
can coach them and mentor themto get that mentorship, or if
there's a family friend who iswell-respected in business, then
that you can pair them up.
I just think there's so muchvalue in that and making those
(27:01):
connections for our young people.
Julie Bauke (27:03):
There is but you've got to be.
One of the mistakes I seepeople make when it comes to
mentoring is I've had people sayto me can you mentor me?
And my first response is whoa,what does that mean?
What do I have to do?
How much time is it going totake?
But if you're specific in yourask, so let's say that you're a
woman in corporate America andyou're getting started in your
career and you see that anybodyit could be a woman or a man are
(27:26):
just killer at running meetingsOn time.
Things get done.
Everybody knows what to do whenthey leave and they end on time
.
You're like man.
You could say to that personyou know so-and-so.
I really.
Here's what I see.
First of all, they're going tobe so flattered that you're
mentioning it.
Here's what I see.
You are so good at runningmeetings.
(27:47):
Could I buy you a cup of coffeeand just get some ideas about
how you develop that skillset,because I'd really like to be as
good as you are at it someday.
That's a doable.
That's a yes.
Can you mentor me for the restof my career?
That's a no.
Michele Folan (28:03):
Yeah, please, god , no you know for an ask.
Julie Bauke (28:05):
Be specific about your ask, because when people
come to me and say so-and-sosaid I should talk to you, I
don't know what to do with therest of my life.
Michele Folan (28:14):
Do you?
Realize what you just asked methat is such a tall order.
It is no, we can't solve thatwith coffee at Starbucks.
Julie Bauke (28:26):
No, I wish we could Again that pill, that injection
.
We need to be less Botox andmore injections of wisdom.
Yeah exactly.
Michele Folan (28:37):
It's funny because my daughter I have two
daughters and the older onetexted me last night.
She said can we talk at 7 amtomorrow morning?
I need some help with a worksituation.
I'm going, let's just talk now.
I just can't think about this.
You know all night what is thisand we came to a solution for
(29:02):
her to approach this, but notall.
I mean.
Julie Bauke (29:05):
I hope you were flattered by that request.
Michele Folan (29:07):
Oh, and I am.
Julie Bauke (29:07):
It means that this person sees you as a wise okay,
I hate the word a wise elder,well, yeah whatever.
Michele Folan (29:16):
Elder, yeah, but a lot of people don't have that
sounding board, and so I thinkyou know it's good to find your
person, that you can pick theirbrain every once in a while and
you know it's interesting, Iknow that this is such.
Julie Bauke (29:35):
This is an area where everybody struggles.
So when I do like radio, like,there's always a producer
that'll talk to me beforehand.
Hey, you know, hang on, blah,blah, blah.
After I've been on a few timesthey'll say, hey, do you have a
minute to answer a question?
And they, you know, and theyhave a career question for me.
And so everybody struggles withthis and it's, you know, how do
(29:59):
you?
And it's hard.
This is why two thirds or morepeople, consistently that number
is consistent are disengagedand unhappy at work.
They don't have anybody tobounce things off of, and so
they get stuck.
They get stuck between theirears, yeah, and that's just kind
of a dark place to be whenyou're not happy.
Michele Folan (30:17):
So I do have a question, because this was
always tough for me.
Can we talk about salarynegotiations?
Sure, what guidance can youprovide there?
Julie Bauke (30:28):
When you are going to go in and ask okay, two
things.
Let's say you're getting readyto start a new job and so you're
in the offer stage.
We talk about and we hear aboutthe wage gap, and part of the
reason for the wage gap part ofit is that women are really
unlikely much less likely thanmen to negotiate on their
(30:49):
starting salary, and so youcould very well find yourself
sitting next to Bob over here.
You're doing exactly the samethings, but Bob is making $5,000
more than you, and you had thesame experience because Bob
asked for more money.
Hr people will tell you thereis room to negotiate almost
every time, but women leave iton the table, and so companies
(31:13):
aren't going to come back and go.
You know, ask for more, there'smore.
They're going to consider thata win if they got you for 5,000
less than they got Bob for.
Should it be that way?
Of course not, but it is.
And so there's when you'restarting a job.
Understand what are the marketrates, what are competitors
paying, and don't go by.
(31:35):
Well, I was making 70 and nowthey're going to give me a 5%
increase.
I think that's fair.
Don't use your last salary asthe benchmark.
Use what the market is payingas a benchmark.
And then there's the other,where you're at work.
I have a story here.
If you're at work and you lookaround, you look at the market,
(31:56):
you happen to find out whatother people are making.
You see what maybe even newpositions at your company are
paying for what you're doing.
You arm yourself withinformation.
One of the biggest mistakespeople make when they ask for a
raise is they tie it to theirpersonal needs.
My rent went up.
I need a raise.
It's not my problem, right?
(32:17):
So you have to tie.
That's not a good reason.
It's a good reason for you, butit's not compelling.
Anytime you ask for a raise,you need to make a business case
so that it makes sense to thecompany.
So you do that two things byunderstanding what the market's
paying and if you've hadrecruiters or people contact,
you share that and then showyour value.
(32:39):
Here's what I've done in thelast year.
If you are a subpar performer,you have no standing to ask for
an increase.
Sorry, you're not going to getit.
But if you are a good, verygood, above average performer
who's valuable to the companyand you can show how what you do
adds value to the company andyou're armed with market data.
It increases your chances ofgetting a raise.
(33:01):
But it also says I'm payingattention.
I'm paying attention, I may beattractive to other companies,
but if you're a heads down,company loyal person, you're
going to get screwed.
I hate to tell you.
This is such great advice.
So let me tell you this storyreal quick, because I think this
is I got a story for you too.
Okay, story time.
Okay, I think this story isvery telling.
(33:23):
A young woman I know, who'sabout 30, was working at a
financial planning firm and shewas woefully underpaid to market
and she was the glue that heldthe organization together and
she gathered her market data.
She went in and asked for whatwas fair given her role, and
(33:44):
they came back with some mealymouth response.
So she tried again.
They're like you're just moneyhungry.
Michele Folan (33:49):
Really.
Julie Bauke (33:51):
You know, and she was like and so organizations
will use those sorts of thingsto make you feel like you're
wrong for asking.
So I said to her get out ofthere.
Get out of there.
And she did.
Oh good, she went back andshe's like okay, all right, if
you think I'm money hungry forasking to be paid, commence her
(34:13):
with my value.
And oh, by the way, I know whatmy value is and you've already
told me what my value is and I'mshowing you there's a $20,000
differential here.
Then this is not a situation inwhich we can come to a mutually
beneficial conclusion, and so,bye-bye, they're a loss,
absolutely.
You've got to have thatstrength, but you have to
(34:35):
operate from a place ofknowledge and you always have to
be ready.
I say be ready to stay, beready to go, have your data.
Michele Folan (34:42):
Gotta have your data.
You know, this happened to meback in like 1989, 1990,
somewhere early 90s, and I gotwind that our raises were not
consistent based on whether ornot we were a guy or a female,
(35:05):
whether or not we were a guy ora female, and that what I heard
was oh well, he's married andhis wife stays home.
Julie Bauke (35:14):
Oh yeah, oh, that makes me crazy and oh.
Michele Folan (35:20):
But you know you're married, you know your
husband works too, so you don'tneed as much.
Yep, that was a real thing backthen.
Julie Bauke (35:28):
Yep, it was, it sure was, and I think it still
is, but it's probably more of anunderground conversation.
Okay, yeah, but yeah,absolutely, that is irrelevant.
It's irrelevant, should be.
It's not up to right.
I mean, the guy with the wifethat stays at home might also
have a multimillion dollarinheritance.
I mean, you can't.
You can't make decisions basedon your perception of people's
(35:49):
personal needs.
You just can't, yeah.
Michele Folan (35:51):
That was just terrible.
I would love for you to share aclient success story, you know.
Julie Bauke (35:56):
I was.
Let me tell you why I was so.
I you know I was thinking aboutthis recently.
So we had a client who was inmarketing and she had a side
business where she made jewelryand it was going really well.
She had her, she had her supplychain figured out, there was
(36:17):
demand and she it was a hobbythat turned into a full-time
career.
But she was in that space whereshe was afraid to make the leap
and she was afraid to say I'mgoing to give all this up.
And so we went through thisprocess of okay, you have a
second income, you already havesuccess and interest in your
jewelry, you already have this,you already have that.
(36:40):
Okay, so you have a bucket overhere that's full with your
regular job, and then you havethis little bucket that you're
trying to fill because you'dlike to do this full time.
What's it going to take for youto switch, to take all of your
energy?
If you believe and the market'stelling you that there is a
(37:02):
need for that, there is a demandfor what you're producing, then
it really is ripping thebandaid off, the hairy arm and
jumping in.
And we will always say what'sthe worst thing that could
happen?
Well, my family?
If I don't get the jewelrybusiness up and running in a
month, my family's going to beliving in a van.
Okay, that's bad.
Michele Folan (37:21):
That's bad.
Julie Bauke (37:21):
We don't want that.
No, we don't.
That's bad.
We don't want that.
No, we don't.
So what can we do to strengthenyour confidence that this
jewelry business is going totake off?
And both are one of our othercoaches and I looked at her.
We're like dude, do this, Dothis.
We're here telling you, asprofessionals, you're ready to
(37:43):
do this.
And so she did, and she's crazysuccessful.
I mean, she has expanded herline.
She is just wildly successful.
So it was that moment where.
So you have to look at where amI, where am I trying to go?
And then what you know, what isit around me, what are the
unknowns, what are the knownsand what is the worst thing that
(38:04):
can happen.
And if you can live with theworst thing that could happen,
then do it.
And, Michele, I'd also arguethat you're a success story.
Michele Folan (38:12):
Well, I did something similar, right, didn't
you?
Yeah, I did, and it was scaryas hell.
Julie Bauke (38:19):
Yes, but now, as you look back, when you look
back at that moment, when youmade that decision, how do you
look back upon it now, like, howdo?
Michele Folan (38:29):
you view it now.
I wish I hadn't been sotentative and nervous, because
it was a year ago that Iresigned from my full-time
corporate job and I almost threwup as I was calling my boss.
You know who I think wassurprised, but it was, you know,
(38:52):
it wasn't terrible, right, andI've told other people this
story.
But three days after I resignedI went and went to a psychic.
Oh yeah, and I walked in andhe's like whoa, whoa, what is
going on with you?
I'd never met this personbefore.
(39:14):
And he totally picked up on myvibe, my nervous vibe, right,
that stress up to the ceilingkind of thing, and so, but yeah,
and in hindsight it you know,now that I've been doing this
almost a year, it's coming up,it'll be a year end of February.
Yeah, it's.
(39:35):
Yeah, it frees your soul onceyou give yourself the
opportunity to step out of yourcomfort zone, and that's exactly
what I did.
Julie Bauke (39:44):
And what another.
I think when we go through thatcalculation, another thing we
forget.
What we're doing is we'recomparing what we have to what
we want, okay, and sometimes weimbue what we have with all
these wonderful characteristicslike I'm never going to, you
know I, I'm never going to losethis job.
(40:07):
We believe this wholeemployer-employee loyalty thing.
We are pledging our loyalty, inthat case, to a job in an
organization that would let usgo tomorrow if they thought they
could live without us.
And so to stay in what feelssafe isn't really safe.
It just isn't safe.
I mean, we like to think it is,we tell ourselves.
(40:30):
It is, in our experience,getting people to really
understand that you have to bein charge of your career.
And here's what that looks like.
My question is always if youcame into work tomorrow and they
said we don't need you anymore,are you ready?
Are you ready to go pursuesomething else Because your
company wants you?
Until the day they don't and inour experience it takes people
(40:53):
to be laid off twice before theytruly believe that there's no
such thing as loyalty.
And there never was, therenever was.
So this employee-employerloyalty is gone crap, it never
was, there was.
You know companies didn't domajor layoffs until the 90s.
Before that they would justkeep you in a corner and just,
(41:16):
but they weren't letting, theynever let people go.
Then, as soon as it becameacceptable to have big,
broad-scale layoffs, you knowthey did it and it's never going
back.
Look at 2008.
Then look what happened in 20during COVID.
There was all this crazy hiring.
The pendulum is doing this.
It's swinging back and forthbetween.
(41:37):
It's an employer's market, it'san employee's market.
It swings back and forth withthe economy, with demographics,
with all kinds of things.
And the only way to really bein charge of your career is
always have your next step inmind, always be ready to stay,
be ready to go and to be readyto go, you've got to have your
LinkedIn profile up to date.
(41:57):
You have to have your resumealways up to date.
You have to be networking atleast once or twice a month with
different people.
You can't bury your head andgive all of your attention to
your job, because that is just aloser's game, because they
would live without you tomorrowif they could.
Michele Folan (42:11):
I love the advice about networking.
Just always kind of keepingyour hand in things, kind of
knowing what's going on outthere.
That's fantastic advice.
I love that.
Julie Bauke (42:24):
Oh yeah, I mean it is, it's so, you know.
I think everybody hears thatand goes, oh yeah, yeah, I need
to do that, but they don't do itand then they're on here.
I mean, I've seen, because Iworked for nine years with
people who just lost their jobslike in that few days, alcohol
outplacement in a few days and Inever thought this would happen
(42:44):
to me.
I don't know how they're goingto live without me.
I mean, yeah, they laid offeverybody else, but I thought I
was safe.
We get in this place where webelieve we are irreplaceable,
and I think 2008 taught peoplethat companies are cutting both
muscle and bone.
They're not cutting fat anymore, both muscle and bone.
They're not cutting fat anymorebecause it was so bad in 2008.
(43:07):
So I don't know what 2025 isgoing to bring, and the only
thing you can do is make sureyou have make sure you've got
all of your tools ready to actand that you give some thought
every once in a while.
What would I do if this allwent away tomorrow?
What would I do?
Yep and I got caught.
Michele Folan (43:28):
Yeah, but I forget.
Yeah, it was 2020 when I gotcaught and I was like whoa, but
yeah, but the pandemic bought mesome time and I'm actually very
grateful for that.
Julie Bauke (43:45):
When you look in the rear view mirror, it always
makes sense, yeah.
Michele Folan (43:48):
Oh yes, it does.
It does, and I always say itwas a gift honestly just, and
I'll leave it at that, okay,what services do you offer?
Julie Bauke (44:00):
Julie, one of the things that you know, as we come
into 2025, most of my focus asa part of our team is on women.
I am creating some fantasticcontent for women.
I speak at women's groups,whether intact inside of
companies or outsideprofessional associations.
I love to speak about careerhappiness, so I do speaking.
(44:24):
I also do webinars and otherprograms other online programs
around a whole suite of careerhappiness so I do speaking.
I also do webinars and otherprograms other online programs
around a whole suite of careertopics.
That's what I love.
We also do one-on-one coaching.
You can follow me on Instagramor TikTok.
My name is Julie on the job.
You can connect with me onLinkedIn.
But what I'm really focusing onthis year is giving women the
(44:46):
tools and the inspiration andthe kick in the seat of the
pants to get more focused andmore thoughtful around what
their possibilities are andunderstand their values.
So we can do that in.
I'm doing I've done courseworkfor women inside organizations
also their ERGs, their employeeresource groups and I'm really
looking to ramp that up in 2025,because that's really what I
(45:08):
love to do is getting wholegroups of people, of women, to
say yes, we can do this together.
So that's what we do.
We help you figure out.
And then I have other people onmy team who help you, you know,
through one-on-one coaching, tohelp you figure out.
You know, hit, figure out.
What is your, what, what shouldyou put, be putting into Google
Maps, and how do you figurethat out?
And then how do you puttogether a plan to get there?
(45:29):
So, yeah, that's what we do.
We're about career happinessperiod, end of story.
I think we all deserve it, yeah.
Michele Folan (45:36):
Yes, and Julie and her team helped me and I'm
forever grateful for that.
Julie Bauke (45:42):
I do.
Look at you, look at you, girl.
Look at you, out there doingbig things.
It's in all of us what you'vedone, michelle, it's in all of
us.
It just looks different thanwhat you're doing, right, but
doing something bigger andbetter, at least better as
defined by what we want.
It's not necessarily climbing aladder anymore.
It's about figuring out whichrung you want to sit on, and
(46:04):
then sometimes building a rungif you don't see one there.
Michele Folan (46:06):
Yeah, oh, you're just full of great little words
of wisdom.
Today, julie, I want to ask youa personal question.
What is one of your corepillars of self-care?
What's something that you dofor yourself?
That's a non-negotiable.
I take naps, woman, after myown heart.
Julie Bauke (46:24):
So you know I was thinking about this.
I naps Woman after my own heart.
So you know I was thinkingabout this.
I'm like, why do I like naps?
So I started thinking about myfamily, my family of origin, you
know, my biological family.
We were like nappers, like itwould not, it would not surprise
anybody in my family to lookover and see somebody asleep on
Christmas day in the loungechair.
So I am, so I'm so committed tonaps, and it might just be 20,
(46:50):
30 minutes, it might be an hourif I need it.
I let my body tell me what itneeds and I also get that.
I'm in a stage of life wherethat's more doable than it is
for some people.
But for me I used to feelreally guilty taking a nap in
the middle of the day.
I'm like hell with that.
That comes again with that agesort of thing, you know.
(47:11):
And for me too, now that I'mI'm you know, at I'm older, I
love waking up with an alarmclock.
I don't it doesn't mean I getup at noon and get up probably
the same time most people, but Ilove those are my little
freedoms that make me feel likeI'm indulging myself and really
give me what I need and notapologize for it.
(47:32):
And we there are people whocan't nap.
Okay, what is it that you need?
Is it a walk around the block?
You know what is it?
You need to keep yourself whereyou need to go, and I just
think women are.
So you know when I would.
Anytime I read the obituary,especially of a much older woman
on, like I read an obituary.
She was selfless, she puteverybody ahead of herself.
(47:55):
I'm like sorry, that's not theflex you think it is.
That's not good.
I'm sorry.
Don't put everybody else aheadof yourself.
What is wrong with you?
Michele Folan (48:05):
That's exactly what I try to tell my clients
you have to put yourself first,because if you don't, you're not
going to be capable of enjoyingall those wonderful moments
ahead that you have coming withyour wonderful family and your
children.
It's like, yeah.
Julie Bauke (48:28):
So the word selfish is such a trigger word for me
because I think we use it as aweapon with women.
Well, not having kids, that'sso selfish, oh really.
Self-ish.
I'm taking care of myself.
It's my life.
You don't get.
You don't get input, and Ithink that's once you start to
embrace that and that's going tobe part of that pill I put in
(48:50):
younger women Once you start toembrace that, I think that's
when real freedom starts and youcan do it.
You can get little snaps ofthat as you go through life, as
you get older.
Do not apologize for taking careof yourself.
I don't care if it's yourhusband, your boyfriend, your
mom, your kids, anybody.
(49:10):
I used to tell my kids, becauseI always worked.
When they were growing up, Isaid here's the deal You're my
number one priority, but you'renot my only priority.
And so you know me droppingeverything every minute that you
need me, me just sitting therewaiting for you to need me is
not going to happen.
Minute that you need me, mejust sitting there waiting for
you to need me is not going tohappen.
Plus, I also think, because Ihad boys, it was a really bad
(49:30):
lesson to teach them that womenare here to serve you, and so
for me it was always like I'mraising someone's husband and
someone's father potentiallyhere, and I want them to love me
for that.
I want them to appreciate thejob I did raising these boys.
And so for women, I thinkthat's just can be really a
challenge, because we've justbought into this.
We have to be everything and doeverything, and even taking an
hour to go to yoga and havingyour watch your husband agree to
(49:54):
babysit the kids how triggeringis that whole statement.
You know really, they're yourkids too, and I think younger
women are realizing that they'relike yeah, I'm not sure.
If I can't have a guy who'sgoing to be a real partner, I'm
not sure that's for me.
Michele Folan (50:09):
Yeah, maybe that's something that the Gen
Xers are going to do better thanwe did, too.
Julie Bauke (50:15):
I think they are.
I think they are.
Women are kind of you know it's.
It's unfortunately theunintended consequences.
This is a lot of men arefollowing Andrew Tate and a lot
of these men that tell them youknow you deserve a 10 out of 10
and any woman who doesn't wantyou is a bitch, and you know, I
mean it's just men aren't a lotof, especially men aren't
(50:37):
responding to that well,unfortunately.
But I love how women areshowing up for themselves and in
their own power.
Michele Folan (50:42):
Yeah, Fantastic Julie.
What is the name of yourwebsite so people can find you?
Julie Bauke (50:49):
TheBauke and it's B-A-U-K-E TheBaukeGroupcom.
You can also connect with me onLinkedIn and just tell me you
heard me on Michelle's podcast.
I'd be happy to connect.
And if you are in charge ofyour internal women's group or
you're a member of aprofessional association that
has a conference coming out, Ihave a lot of great career
(51:10):
topics that a lot of them focuson women, but most of them are
gender agnostic and professionand industry agnostic too.
It's really about the processof career happiness and
everything that goes into that.
Fantastic, Julie Bauke, it wasgreat catching up.
Michele Folan (51:24):
You too, Keep going forward and being awesome
girl, Thank you.
Thanks for being here today.
Hey, thanks for tuning in.
Please rate and review the showwhere you listen to the podcast
.
And did you know that Askingfor a Friend is available now to
listen on YouTube?
You can subscribe to thepodcast there as well.
Your support is appreciated andit helps others find the show.
(51:48):
Thank you.
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