Ep.149 Snooze or Lose: Sleep - The Foundation You Can't Ignore - Asking for a Friend - Health, Fitness & Personal Growth Tips for Women in Midlife

Episode Transcript
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Michele Folan (00:00):
Sleep.
It's something we all know weshould prioritize, but let's be
honest.
It's often the first thing totake a hit when life gets busy.
And if you're in midlife, youmay have noticed that sleep
isn't as simple as it used to beTossing and turning, waking up
at 3 am and dragging through theday.
You are not alone.

(00:22):
You are not alone Health,wellness, fitness and everything
in between.
We're removing the taboo fromwhat really matters in midlife.
I'm your host, Michele Folan,and this is Asking for a Friend.

(00:44):
Here's the truth.
Sleep is the foundation ofeverything your metabolism, your
hormones, your ability to burnfat, your mental clarity and
even how well you show up inrelationships.
If you're struggling to getquality rest, it's not just
about feeling tired.
It could be holding you backfrom reaching your health and
wellness goals.

(01:04):
Tired, it could be holding youback from reaching your health
and wellness goals.
That's why I'm excited to haveMorgan Adams, a certified
holistic sleep coach, back onthe show today.
Morgan has helped countlessbusy women reclaim their sleep,
and today she's bringing freshinsights on how to optimize your
rest so you can wake up feelingstrong, clear-headed and
energized.
If you've been treating sleepas an afterthought, this episode

(01:27):
is your wake-up call.
Literally, let's dive in.
Morgan Adams, welcome to Askingfor a Friend.

Morgan Adams (01:34):
Thanks, Michele.
It's great to be here with youagain.

Yeah, you know, I on occasion will have guests
back, and these are typicallyguests A those episodes have
done very well and continue toget lots of downloads, and B
ones that are just so in linewith where my audience is.

(01:59):
And we talk about sleep all thetime with my clients.
We talk about sleep all thetime with my clients, and I just
said I got to get Morgan backbecause I know there's new tips
and tricks that you've learnedsince then.
So but first of all, before weget started, Morgan, tell the
audience where you're from and alittle bit about your training

(02:20):
and family stuff too.

Yeah, well, I'm born and raised in Richmond,
virginia.
I'm currently here, I'm married, I have two fur babies, two dog
fur babies and two kitty furbabies, so it's a house full of
animals, no human babies.
And I actually started my wholecareer in social work which is

(02:44):
kind of interesting from wayback when and then kind of
transitioned into pharmaceuticalsales and then over into
healthcare marketing andcommunications and I've been in
sleep coaching for coming up onfour years and I got into that
because I had my own prettysignificant struggles with sleep
for about eight years and wasdependent on Ambien, and I

(03:06):
really have a soft spot in myheart for women who are
struggling with their sleep.

Yeah, and so how long did it take for you to be
able to get rid of the Ambien?
Just say, okay, I'm done.

I really don't even remember.
It was a while.
So it was about 20 years agothat I got rid of the Ambien,
okay, and that.
You know it's interesting thatpart of my life feels kind of
blurry.
Maybe it has something to dowith the Ambien, I don't know.
But I remember I had a lot offits and starts trying to wean
myself off of it.
And really the kicker ongetting off of the medication

(03:41):
for real was when I met my nowhusband, who was then my new
boyfriend.
He was like, look, when youtake this medication you act
like a zombie and it freaks meout.
And I was like, oh, okay, so Idid.
You know, just for anyone outthere who is on a sleep
medication, on a psychiatricmedication or really anything

(04:01):
that's been prescribed, justfrom my own experience I would
not recommend you takingyourself off of your meds
without, like some kind ofguidance or plan from your
prescribing provider.
I didn't know any better.
I just kind of went rogue andluckily I got through it pretty
well.
But that's just something thatI always like to mention because
I don't want to sound socavalier like, oh, I just

(04:23):
stopped taking the meds.
I didn't do it the way that Isuggest my clients do it.
So when I work with clients whoare on sleeping pills and
probably three-fourths of themare, honestly, the way that I
position it is you know, I stayin my scope as a health coach
and a sleep coach.
I don't venture out intoprescribing and, you know,

(04:44):
making those medical decisions.
So if a client wants to comeoff her sleeping medications, I
will usually tell her to get ataper schedule from her doctor.
But most of the time I actuallyprovide one for the doctor to
sign off on, because doctors,honestly, if they're a primary
care doctor, they are likely notgoing to understand, like how

(05:07):
medications are titrated downfor sleep, or they may just be
like why you know, like theymight understand.
So I really want to make surethat everyone is on the same
page.
So my client will have thatwritten plan in her hands that
doc has signed off on or whoeverthe nurse practitioner has
signed off on, and then I helpher implement the plan and give

(05:29):
her the accountability andsupport.
So I just want to make thatclear that I'm not the one who's
just like kind of calling allthe shots, because I think it's
important to stay in your laneas a coach and be appropriate in
that way.

Yeah, and you know I appreciate you bringing
that up because I get askedabout supplements all the time
and I'll tell people what I take, but with the preface of look,
I am not telling you this iswhat you should be taking.
My doctor knows exactly what Itake, what doses, why I take.

(06:00):
It is why I take it, and so Iwould never recommend someone
take something or quit takingsomething without consulting
their doctor first.
So, yeah, it's always good tokind of put that out there.
Yeah, very wise, you had ajourney with cancer.

Yeah.

And how did that play into your sleep?
And how did that play into your?

sleep, yeah, so a lot of people think that the
insomnia and the breast cancerwere related.
The insomnia came way beforethe cancer, so there is really
no tie in there, but whathappened was the breast.
Well, so I've had two breastcancers.
Unfortunately, the first onewas in 2018.
And that really was like amassive wake up call on many

(06:46):
levels, especially with myhealth.
I stopped drinking alcohol asmuch.
I started really looking atwhat I was putting in my body
and eliminating processed foods,toxins, just getting healthier
overall and that diagnosis in2018 really helped me understand
that I wanted to help otherwomen with their health, but I

(07:06):
did not actually know in whatcapacity that would be.
I briefly explored being like abreast cancer recovery coach,
but I never really really delvedinto that.
And then the pandemic was sortof like the second thing that
got me really really thinkingabout my purpose.
Right, and during the pandemicthis is where it all kind of

(07:27):
ties in During the pandemic, inthe very first couple months, my
sleep started to get bad againand I was like, oh no, I don't
want to have insomnia.
So I went online and startedresearching how to get better
sleep.
I got an Oura ring to track mysleep and I was able to get my
sleep back on track, and becauseI was so excited about all this

(07:48):
, what I was doing, I startedposting it on Facebook
organically and found out that alot of other women were having
trouble with their sleep and sothat previous desire to help
women with their health.
It was like all the starsaligned and I realized, okay,
here's something you canactually do with your life as a
career and help women with theirsleep.

(08:08):
You're really passionate aboutsleep and health and helping
women, so why not be a sleepcoach?
So that's kind of how it allkind of came together.
And I've been doing this comingup on four years, so I took a
year to like really get mycertifications and health
coaching and sleep coaching,because it's one thing to say

(08:29):
I'm going to be such and such,well, great, you know you can't
really hang your shingle untilyou've gotten some knowledge
under your belt, right?
So I had to really spend awhile to get the knowledge that
I have, and the knowledge that Ihave now is not the same
knowledge I had a few years ago.
I keep growing and growing andbuilding my skill set and
learning new things.
Yes, you do.

I've been following you for a long time
and don't minimize yourcertifications, because you're
double certified, right?
If I remember correctly.

Yeah, I've got a few certifications.
At this point now, it's justinteresting because sleep
coaching as a profession doesn'thave a standardized
certification, so there's been alittle bit of backlash with the
American Academy of SleepMedicine.
They're like okay, some of themare like, they really like

(09:22):
sleep coaches.
Some of them are like oh gosh,sleep coaches, they're not
regulated.
I've heard them talk aboutwanting to regulate sleep
coaching and honestly, I'm allin favor of that.
Like I would love to see somekind of regulatory, like kind of
bona fide certification by abody that's recognized, so that

(09:44):
that gives me more recognition,right, yeah, but we don't have
that yet.
I guess they're thinking aboutit, maybe I don't know All right
.
Hopefully.

Yeah, one thing I did want to ask, because I've
known a few people that havedone sleep studies yeah, do
people ever come to you and theybring a sleep study with them
and say hey, can you help memake heads or tails of this so
that I can use this data forgood?

You know, not usually.
I mean, I've had a couple hereand there, but usually their
doctor has been the one to kindof give them the lowdown on
what's going on with their sleep.
Yeah, so it's not usually.
It's kind of the reverse.
It's usually I'm the one who'sworking with them, and I get to
a point, usually with a woman,and I'm like okay, I think we

(10:31):
need a sleep study for you, andthen I'll recommend a sleep
study, you know, and then herdoctor will usually be the one
to kind of determine what'sgoing on, cause I just feel like
it's more again, more in scopeto have the doctor kind of make
the final decision.
I don't diagnose or treat, youknow.
So if somebody comes to me withsleep apnea, I can't really

(10:54):
work with them unless they'realready under the care of
another doctor.
And with the insomnia piece,for sure I can work with them.
But a lot of times people cometo me with both insomnia and
sleep apnea and so we have tomake sure that that client is
managed appropriately on themedical end with her sleep apnea
treatment, because you don'twant to be.

(11:16):
A lot of times this will happenin primary care is a woman comes
to her primary care doctor withcomplaints of sleep and she
gets misdiagnosed with havinginsomnia or depression and so
she gets put on antidepressantsor sleeping meds which end up
exacerbating her sleep apnea.
And this is a whole otherthread.
But essentially primary caredoctors need more training in

(11:38):
sleep science, sleep medicine,to adequately assess, because a
lot of times primary caredoctors they will dismiss women
like us, women who are notoverweight.
You and I, we're thinner, welook healthy, but we could very
well have sleep apnea or sleepbreathing issue and they will

(11:59):
overlook us because we're notmale and overweight with big
necks.

Uh-huh, oh, I know, and you know what.
I wake up sometimes in themiddle of the night and my mouth
is wide open and I'm like, ohright, I mean it does become way
more common in midlife forwomen to develop sleep apnea,

(12:27):
more common in midlife for womento develop sleep apnea, and you
may not know, unless yourpartner is nudging you because
you're gasping for air.
But you said something thatdoctors aren't equipped or
trained in sleep.
Well, they don't get a lot oftraining in nutrition either.
They sure don't.
So I mean it keeps people likeyou and me busy, because people

(12:51):
need our help because theirdoctors aren't able to do
everything.
So, yeah, yeah.
So I do want to ask you aquestion.
We talk about midlife and sleepissues.
Yeah, what is the main reasonyou find that women really start
struggling with sleep at thisage?

Yeah, well, there are a host of things.
So when you look at midlifewomen in general, there's like
kind of three main issues why Isee them struggling with their
sleep.
The first one is kind of like anobvious one it's hormones
fluctuating, estrogens declining, progesterones declining, and
we start to really see thoseeffects in our sleep.

(13:33):
The second reason I would sayis we tend to be more prone to
anxiety and depression in ourmidlife years and those both
leave us more vulnerable tosleep issues.
And then, I think you know, thethird reason is really
sociocultural, if you will, andthat is if you have a typical
woman in midlife let's just sayshe's 50, 45, 50, somewhere

(13:57):
around there.
She may have kids still at homethat she's responsible for, she
may have parents who are aging,who need her help, and then, on
top of all of that, she'sprobably at the height of her
career.
Maybe she's a manager at acorporation, or maybe she's an
entrepreneur and she's got a lotgoing on.

(14:17):
So all of these demands thatshe has, combined with the
potential hormone issues and theyou know, maybe the mood issues
, it's like a really it can bekind of a recipe for disaster
for their sleep in many cases.

Yeah, I've been there.

Yeah, me too.

You know?
And then, if someone has trueinsomnia, what are the long-term
ramifications of not addressingthat?

Yeah, that's a really good question.
So I think that sometimes whatwe need to do is we need to look
at what insomnia really is,because sometimes in the studies
and in the media they will bereferring to insomnia and sleep
deprivation interchangeablyright, so it's almost like

(15:10):
they're separate questions.
So if we think about insomniaas having trouble falling asleep
, staying asleep or waking uptoo early, having unsatisfactory
sleep, we're not satisfied withit and we have some kind of
daytime consequences.
There's really not a whole lotof evidence that just those
things in and of themselves aregoing to kill you a lot of

(15:35):
people who have insomnia.
I mean, I look at a lot ofmessage boards about sleep and
insomnia and people are reallyscared.
They're really scared thatthey're going to have some
really dire consequences ofinsomnia.
And people are really scared.
They're really scared thatthey're going to have some
really dire consequences ofinsomnia.
And the reason why they do, Ibelieve, is because they're
seeing studies in the media thatrefer to sleep deprivation and

(15:57):
not insomnia, because there's somuch about insomnia that is
really tied in with yourrelationship with sleep.
So if we were to say what arethe long-term consequences of
just insomnia?
That is really tied in withyour relationship with sleep.
So if we were to say what arethe long-term consequences of
just insomnia, what I would sayis mental health issues first
and foremost.
So we do know that untreatedinsomnia that's been going on

(16:19):
for over a year doubles yourrisk of depression.
So that's a huge risk, becausewho wants to live their life
depressed and not able to have agood relationship with sleep
and just the quality of life?
I mean, I can just speak formyself and my clients.
When you have insomnia, yourlife shrinks, you start to build
your life around sleep and whatyou can and cannot do, you

(16:42):
don't make yourself as availableto function socially, so your
world becomes pretty small.
So I think that's a bigconsequence, although it may not
be, like you know, a true quotehealth consequence in that
regard, of like maybe havingdiabetes or high blood pressure.
So that's really kind of thebest answer I have for you as

(17:04):
far as, like what the long-termconsequences are of insomnia.
Now the conversation can switchvery much when we're talking
about the long-term consequencesof sleep deprivation, which is
really defined as more likegetting less than six hours of
sleep on a regular basis.
That's like what we're lookingat when we see these studies

(17:25):
about problems with health.
Those are usually being lookedat as people who are, you know,
getting very little sleep over along period of time and those
studies are showing correlationswith insulin resistance, weight
gain, heart disease, diabetes,a lot of these chronic disease
situations.

(17:45):
But we need to also be carefulabout that too.
Sorry, there's so many caveatshere, but in those studies
they're looking at correlations.
So they're not actually sayingX causes Y, because all they
have are correlations, sosomething is linked with
something else.
Because we're never going tohave like a placebo-controlled,

(18:06):
double-blinded study looking atsleep deprivation, because it's
actually unethical tosleep-deprived people for that
long.
So the best we have really withsleep deprivation studies are
short-term, like you know a fewdays or maybe even a week of
sleep deprivation days or maybeeven a week of sleep deprivation

(18:28):
.

Yeah, and we do talk about this with my clients
and coaching is that poor sleepcan impact your metabolism, and
we kind of set the standard forseven to eight hours of sleep at
least, because it does enhancethe whole weight loss journey.
But if you have someone becauseyou said six hours I know there
are people listening right nowthat are getting less than that

(18:50):
sleep, and so I want to talkabout some of those strategies,
if you will.
That if I were to come to youas a client and I am really
struggling to get that muchsleep Because I think about you
know, morgan, I want to say thisreally quick is that just going

(19:10):
to bed, not knowing if you'regoing to fall asleep, would
create so much anxiety I couldsee you not wanting to go to
sleep to make that I don't knowthat effort to go to bed because
you just think you're going tolie there.
I mean it would be such avicious cycle.

Right, yeah, what you're describing is very
typical with a lot of my clients, and I call it sleep anxiety.
That's really kind of what itis, because you're anxious about
the consequences of tossing andturning, of what your night's
going to be like.
You're also nervous and anxiousabout the consequences of
what's going to happen the nextday without that sleep.
So there's a lot of self-talkgoing on in that process up

(19:56):
leading to bed, and so what wereally want to do is kind of
create that and it doesn'thappen overnight, but we want to
create that sense of peace andless stress with the whole
process of going to bed andfalling asleep, absolutely.

So my husband laughs at me because I don't let
him turn on any overhead lightsat night.

You're so good, me too.

Okay, and he's like God.
We're like freaking bats.
Why can't we turn the lights on?
I said because we are resettingour circadian rhythm and we
want to, you know.
So I know there's way more thanthat, but that's what we're
doing here at the Folanhousehold.

Yeah, same here.
We're doing the same thing.
Absolutely, we could talk aboutit.
There's so many directions wecould go.
We could talk about how to setup for a proper light
environment from morning tillnight, if you want, I mean, we
can go any direction we want.

I would love that because yeah, because I, you
know we talk about gettingmorning light, but I want to.
I want people to understandwhat the importance is of
getting that morning sunshine,but then how that progresses
through the day and how they canalso enhance it other ways.

Great Well, so, starting in the morning, we
really want to prioritizegetting morning sunlight as soon
as we can when we wake up.
So if you look at the entireyear, the sun is shifting when
it's rising throughout the year,and so what I'm usually
recommending to my clients isthem getting an app.
The one that I've been usingfor the past six months, since
it's been launched, is called myCircadian App.

(21:33):
We should probably put a linkin the show notes, because
everyone loves it and it's afree app, but you can pay I
think what?
$4 a month for all of thefeatures of the app and you can
get a free month using my code,morgan.
But in any case, what you woulddo is you download the app and

(21:54):
your location is critical to howthe app works.
So what you will see on the appis all of these different times
when the sun is rising, soyou'll know, actually, when the
sun is going to rise and you cantell in the next few days when
it'll rise, so you can kind ofplan your schedule.
So that sunrise is really avery important time to be out,

(22:15):
because that time of the sunriseand when you're outside, of
course, no sunglasses oranything covering your eyes.
That's really important.
It's really going to be sendinga very strong signal to your
suprachiasmatic nucleus that itis the start of the day and that
will help the cortisol, themelatonin pulse, gets situated
properly and then you reallyonly need about 10 minutes of

(22:38):
that sunlight in the morningaround sunrise, and then what we
have after sunrise is a very,very beautiful time called UVA
rise.
So there's UVA light in the, inthe around us pretty much all
throughout the day and the appwill tell you exactly when the

(22:59):
UVA light is happening.
But the morning UVA light isreally like I call I've been
calling it nature's like yourinternal pharmacy, right?
Because what's happening whenyou get exposed to the UVA light
of course without sunglasses isyou're going to have all of
these neurotransmittersconverting amino excuse me,
you're going to have all theseamino acids converting to

(23:21):
neurotransmitters.
So you're going to have yourtryptophan, which is a
neurotransmitter, convertingover to serotonin, which
converts to melatonin, toprepare your body for the next
night of melatonin.
You're going to have tyrosineconverting over to dopamine and
norepinephrine for motivationand alertness.
You're going to have thyroidbalancing effects.

(23:44):
You're going to have appetiteregulating effects.
So if you're into weight loss,keeping a good body composition.
This is the actual key time tobe outside.
So how much time?
About 20 minutes is probably asweet spot.
Now I personally I'm lucky thatI can control my own schedule

(24:07):
because I work for myself, but Iliterally don't really schedule
clients or podcast interviewsor things that I need to be like
pinned down for in that periodof time of the UVA rise because
I want to be available.
Okay, I want that free medicine.

Yeah, no, I love that.
This is.
I never knew this.
I never knew this.
I never knew this.
So I knew about the earlymorning light, resetting your
circadian rhythm if I could talktoday circadian rhythm, and
then even that early eveninglight I've been told that that
is very positive to get thatvery positive to get that.

Yeah, and let me just tag on one thing about how
much light.
So on this app you havesomething called a lux meter and
it measures the amount of lightin your environment.
So you basically hold up yourcamera and you'll get.
You hold it up eye levelbecause you want to track what's
coming into your eyes.
You basically need about 1300lux in the morning for optimal

(25:19):
metabolic function in thatmorning light.
So if you think about what a lotof people tend to do is they're
like, well, I don't want to gooutside because it's cloudy, I'm
going to stay inside.
Well, the problem with that isinside maxes out at about 500
lux.
So if you really want to getyour metabolism and all of those
processes going, you needactually to be outside to get
that, because you're not goingto get the amount of light from

(25:42):
your home.
Look, even just opening awindow, you're just not going to
get it.
So because I do have a lot ofclients who are like, yeah, it
was cloudy or it was rainy andso I opened my window or I just
stood by my window.
I'm like no, that is actuallynot going to work out very well.
You know you have to go outside.
Now, if you have like ascreened in porch, you can

(26:06):
potentially get some lightbenefits from that, but you
can't have like a glass windowand get the benefits from
looking at the glass, because inmodern-day homes they're
blocking that UV light from youby making that glass in a
certain way.
Okay, so we've covered themorning and how important that
is, and then we want to talkabout in the first few hours

(26:30):
before we go to bed.
So, thinking about the threehours before bed, we want to
have our lux at 10 or less, andagain, you can use that lux
meter in your house.
So I actually did.
You know, toy around with.
I have overhead lights in my, inmy main area where we hang out
after dinner, and I was like,ooh, we cannot have these

(26:51):
overhead lights on.
I was like you, I was like we'returning these off, and so I've
adjusted the table lamps to beon and they are less than 10 lux
for that.
And I even actually, michelle,I went inside my bathroom and I
had my husband unscrew one ofthe because like one light

(27:12):
switch controls two lamps aboveeach sink and I had him unscrew
one of the light bulbs so thatwhen you turn on the switch you
have basically half the light toequate up less than 10 lux,
because a lot of people don'tthink about this issue and I
didn't until like just severalmonths ago, and this is my work,

(27:32):
right so sometimes you'reoblivious to it in your own
setting, but but we go in ourbathroom at night and we brush
our teeth, we do our skin careand most of those lights are
bright because they're made for,like, putting on your makeup,
right.
So we kind of need to bethinking about like those
details too in our home whichyou know we're not thinking of

(27:53):
often.

Yeah, I use.
I use the shower light so Iturn on the shower light so that
, because those lights above mysink are just, they're awful.

They're not circadian friendly.

No, no no, no, hey, Morgan, we're going to take
a quick break and when we getback I want to talk a little bit
about why we wake up at 3 am.
Hey there, if you've beenwatching from the sidelines
telling yourself I'll start nextweek or I'll start when things
aren't so crazy in my life, thisis your wake-up call.

(28:30):
Another year of feelingsluggish, frustrated, with belly
and back fat and stuck nothanks, you deserve better, and
I've been where you are.
I know how hard midlife changescan be, but here's the truth
your body can feel strong,energized and capable again with

(28:50):
the right strategy and support.
That's exactly what I do in mycoaching.
So stop waiting.
Let's make this the year youactually put yourself first.
My next six-week midlife resetstarts soon, so grab your spot
now.
Just email me at mfollin that'sF as in Frank O-L-A-N.
Fasterway at gmailcom.

(29:14):
Your future self will thank you.
Okay, we are back.
Before we went on the break, Imentioned that I want to talk
about why we wake up at 3 am,and then how do we fall back to
sleep?

Yeah, this is literally the most common
complaint that my clients haveand I want to share some
information about it.
But before I share that, I wantyou to know that I've actually
wrote a free guide all about itand it's called Awake Again at 3
am your Guide to why.
You're've actually wrote a freeguide all about it and it's
called Awake Again at 3am yourGuide to why You're Waking Up
and what to Do About it.
You can get it from my website.

(29:55):
So it's got basically the wholekit and caboodle.
But I want to share some keyinsights from that guide to kind
of get you started.
First thing I'll say aboutwake-ups is that they're normal.
It's normal to actually wake upin the middle of the night
because we have four to five-ishsleep cycles that we go through

(30:16):
throughout the night.
They last roughly 90 minutesgive or take, and after each
sleep cycle we do typically havea brief awakening, and that
awakening is actually kind ofrooted in our biology.
So think back many, many yearsago.
Before we were in our nice safehomes, we were out in the
wilderness, right.
There were things that couldpotentially prey upon us.

(30:38):
So that brief awakening isreally an evolutionary process
that's lingered on into modernday life.
So we're doing a brief scan forour safety and surroundings and
then we go back to sleep.
So if you're waking up in themiddle of the night, one thing
you can tell yourself is youknow, you can normalize it by
saying, okay, I must have justcompleted a sleep cycle and

(31:00):
everything's okay.
Now where it gets to be alittle tricky is when we can't
fall back asleep.
That's when things go awry.
And so one thing I will shareis that it's very normal to have
catastrophic, unrealisticthoughts in the middle of the
night, because when you are upat that hour one, two, three,

(31:21):
four, whenever it is middle ofthe night your prefrontal cortex
, the rational part of yourbrain, is still asleep and
you're mainly operating fromyour amygdala, your emotional
center, and there's even aconcept that's being studied
right now called mind aftermidnight.
And what they're basicallyshowing is that in those hours

(31:42):
the one to three-ish hours whenthey measure people's mood over
a course of the day that is whenpeople are at their worst mood
and they're the lowestemotionally.
Which is why and not to get toomorbid here, but that's why we
see most of the suicides at thattime of night is because people
have very dire or rationalthoughts which they act upon.

(32:05):
So, no matter what you're doinglike if you're having those
rational thoughts at 3 am trustme, I have to coach myself on
this repeatedly is I have totell myself, okay, it's the
middle of the night, the thingsthat you're worrying about right
now are not going to seem assignificant at 8 am.
You just have to remindyourself that you're not in your

(32:26):
best frame of mind not to acton anything, not to do anything,
but really just to almostcontract with yourself that
whatever you're worried aboutyou will deal with tomorrow,
when you have actually your witsabout you.
Right, yeah, okay.
So those are really somemindset shifts.
Want to talk about a few reasonswhy people are waking up?

(32:47):
Yeah, okay, and this, yeah, Ilist them all out in the guide,
but let's hit on a few biggies,okay.
The first one that I will shareis glucose drops.
Glucose like blood sugar dipsin the middle of the night.
That is very common, and whathappens when we have those blood

(33:09):
sugar dips is we have acortisol spike and that's what
wakes us up.
So sometimes people will do anovernight continuous glucose
monitor on their arm and thatway, if they're having the
wake-ups, they can see if theycan correlate those wake-ups to
any kind of glucose crash.
And in that case what you willwant to do is you'd really want

(33:30):
to do a deeper dive into yourmetabolic health.
You'd really want to kind ofuncover the reason why you've
got that blood sugar imbalanceand address that.
But one thing that you couldtest like just anyone can do
this if you're getting thosewake-ups in the middle of the
night is maybe have a smallsnack like an hour before bed,

(33:50):
and the small snack would not beOreos or ice cream.
It wouldn't be that kind ofsnack, it would be like.
I know like we were really kindof wondering, like, what are we
going to make a snack on tonight?
You would want to have maybe afew bites of leftover dinner.
You might have some Greekyogurt with some almonds or some
nut butter and a couple ofsmall crackers, something very

(34:12):
small with enough protein andfat and maybe some complex carbs
so that you've got that bloodsugar stability to keep you
awake overnight, right.
So that's something you couldtry to see.
If maybe the root cause of it.
You mean keep you asleepovernight?
Yes, yes, exactly, thank you,twisted my words.
Yeah, yeah, so that could be alittle test you could run on

(34:33):
yourself to see if the wake-upsare due to that blood sugar
dysregulation, then you know.
The second one is being too hot, and that doesn't necessarily
mean that you're having a hotflash or night sweats, but
really you're just overheated.
And this is very common when weget into midlife and we have

(34:54):
that estrogen drop, because thatestrogen is really responsible
for temperature regulation.
So what you can do for that is,I mean you could lower your
temperature in temperature inyour sleeping environment quite
a bit, you know, maybe lower itto mid-60s.
If it's 70 during the daytime,lower it to mid-60s or below

(35:16):
that.
You could have bamboo sheets,bamboo PJs or nightgown.
I actually my hack for this isa cooling mattress pad my hack
for this is a cooling mattresspad.
It has been my saving grace forthe past three years having one
of those in my bedroom to keepme, you know, cool all night

(35:36):
long and you can adjust thetemperature to your liking,
having it be warm when you wakeup whatever your preference is.
The only downside of themattress pads is it sucks to
travel because you don't have itwith you.

Oh, so yeah, you can't.
That's a tough one, so you missit.

Yeah, because I don't ever sweat unless I'm
traveling, and I'll wake up likereally overheated in a hotel or
an Airbnb and I'm like, oh,where's my, where's my eight
sleep?
Where is it when I so?
Do you have a brand yourecommend?
Where's my eight sleep?

Where is it when I so?
Do you have a brand yourecommend?
Yeah, I do?

I like eight sleep the best.
I used to use the ChiliPad fora while but then it broke and
it's a long story I won't getinto but basically they were
kind of temporarily out ofbusiness and I desperately
needed the pad.
So I went ahead and sprung forthe eight sleep and it's much
easier to maintain and there's asleep tracker embedded as well.

(36:32):
But in any case they all do thetrick.
It's just a matter of like howhigh tech you want to be and how
much maintenance you want toput into it.
But I highly recommendexploring some kind of cooling
device on your bed.
It's really a game changer.
And then the third reason forthe wake-ups is sleep disordered
breathing.
So that would be either sleepapnea or upper airway resistance

(36:54):
syndrome.
And quite often what willhappen is if you have a sleep
tracker and you're looking at itand you see all these like
little small white ticks whereyou're waking up, that can be
indicative, like they're reallybrief, and sometimes you're not
even aware of them, you're noteven like fully aware that

(37:14):
you're up, but your sleep doesget disrupted and fragmented.
And so that is why I'm verymuch a proponent of every woman
in midlife getting a sleep study, yeah, especially if they're
having trouble sleeping.
But I really do feel like wethink about when we get our
physical.
You know, usually we'll get aphysical by our primary care

(37:38):
doctor and they'll do like ablood pressure check.
They'll do these things for us,but yet why aren't we getting
our sleep breathing measured,like we get our blood pressure
measured?
It's such a, it's a vital sign,and I'm just like so, like why
aren't we getting our sleepbreathing measured, like we get
our blood pressure measured?
It's a vital sign, and I'm justlike so, like why aren't we
doing this?
Yeah, and I think it's honestlybecause they're overlooking
women and because we don'tpresent in the same way that men

(37:59):
do.

Right, yeah, we don't have the big barrel chests
and, like you said, before thethick neck and all of that.

Yeah, before the thick neck and all of that.
Yeah, but I know so many womenwho are even in their 30s.
I've got clients in their 30swho are tiny, thin women with
sleep apnea.
They would have never suspectedthem at the doctor's office of
having sleep apnea.
So I would say that it would bevery well a good investment to

(38:26):
have your sleep breathingmeasured if you're having
frequent wake-ups at night.

Okay, I may know the answer to this question, but
are there any foods orbeverages that you find that
disrupt people's sleep moreoften?

Yes.
Well, the two that come to mindare caffeine.
Too much coffee in theafternoon seems to be kind of a
deal breaker with a lot ofpeople in their sleep and
alcohol.
Yeah, so the problem withalcohol is that as we get older,
our livers don't process it aswell.

(39:08):
So the few drinks that we mayhave had in our 30s on a weekend
will pretty much trash oursleep in midlife.
It's like our bodies are justnot able to handle it and our
sleep gets very disrupted.
So we basically have a lot ofour deep sleep and REM sleep
suppressed when we have alcohol.

(39:29):
It increases the risk of sleepbreathing issues.
It hurts your circadian rhythm,it makes you hotter.
I mean interesting story.
I was at a restaurant with myhusband and there were women
there at the table next to uswho I think might be in their
late 50s at the table next to uswho I think might be in their

(39:50):
late 50s and they were orderingtheir second glass of wine and
they were asking for a breadbasket refill whilst they were
complaining about their hotflashes and night sweats.
I'm tangling here a little bit,but just the whole point is,
those are the kinds of thingsthat you have at dinner.
That can kind of wreck yoursleep.

(40:10):
So the alcohol and you know I'mnot going to say like never
drink, but like really think ofbe strategic.
If you're going to drink, bestrategic about what you're
going to do and plan, plan tohave alcohol earlier in the
evening Maybe, like when I drinkalcohol I will drink it like
four or five in the afternoon.

I'll have like one drink A little day drink in
there.
Yeah, like a little lateafternoon.

You know, my husband and I usually go to
dinner around five.
I might have a cocktail at fiveand then that's it for the
night no more, whereas before,years ago, I would have nightcap
drinks after dinner, and thatis just like a recipe for
disaster for your sleep.
So just if you want to havealcohol, at least be strategic

(40:57):
about it and time it so thatyou're having it earlier and
maybe cutting back, like havingone instead of two.
That could make a hugedifference, because they did a
study showing that more than onealcoholic drink can impact your
sleep quality for women by 38%,and so it goes up for each
drink you have.

(41:17):
Your sleep quality takes a dipfor each drink, so you're really
leaving a lot of sleep qualityon the table, yeah.

You know you brought up REM and deep sleep
before, and for those that wearSleep Tracker, they can see how
much REM and deep sleep they'regetting versus light sleep.
Yeah, is there a certain amountthat you would look for in
terms of your own sleep quality?

Generally speaking , you're looking at like 20 to
25% REM sleep for a healthyadult and probably 15 to 20% for
deep sleep for a healthy adult.
But the caveat here there's acouple.
Number one is that the sleepstaging is the least accurate of

(42:04):
all the areas of sleep.
They're measuring on a tracker,so you can't and this is
embarrassing, but I wear foursleep trackers, oh my God and on
any given night you'll seedifferent stages of deep sleep
according to which tracker I use.

Okay.

So I kind of just I don't get too hung up on it, I
just kind of eyeball theaverage and call it a day, right
, I'm not going to get all hungup on it.
And then the second thing I'llpoint out is that they're
looking at healthy young adultsin their algorithm.
They're not looking at anyonewith a sleep disorder.
They're not looking at peoplewho are in midlife and beyond.

(42:42):
They're looking at probablylike a 25-year-old, healthy
person, probably like a25-year-old healthy person.
And I had a situation recentlywhere my 55-year-old client was
telling me that she and her23-year-old daughter were
comparing Oura Ring scores anddeep sleep scores and I was like
stop, do not do that, becauseyou're at an unfair advantage,

(43:02):
because when you get into yourlate 40s your deep sleep is
starting to really decline.
Your deep sleep is starting todecline even earlier than that,
but once you hit your late 40syou've got about half the amount
of deep sleep you had when youwere younger and it keeps just
declining.
I'm not trying to depressanyone, I'm just being a

(43:23):
complete realist.
By the time you're in your 70syou don't have a lot of deep
sleep.
That is just our biology.
So I always point that out topeople who are in midlife and
beyond, because you're going tosee some dips and I've seen,
certainly over the five yearsthat I've been tracking with my
Oura Ring, some decrease in thedeep sleep, yikes.

(43:44):
I know there's some things youcan do.
I mean it's not gloom and doom,but you kind of have to be more
conscientious about your habitsNot drinking the alcohol,
sleeping in a cool environment.
Exercise is a very, veryreliable way to get more deep

(44:05):
sleep.
Get more deep sleep.
They've done like ameta-analysis of 13 studies
showing that exercise helpsmiddle-aged adults and older get
deep sleep.
So we have some things at ourdisposal to help us with that.

I started on progesterone in 2021 after my
hysterectomy 2021 after myhysterectomy.
That was a game changer for mepersonally, just addressing my
hormones Are there any naturalsleep aids or supplements that
actually work that you have inyour armatarium?

Wow, Well, I've tried a lot.
A lot of companies send metheir sleep supplements.
I do use pretty much everynight erbitonin, which is a
plant form of melatonin very lowdose.
Melatonin is a verycontroversial supplement in the
sleep world.
There's a lot of variance interms of opinions that people

(45:02):
have, but I actually think itcould be a good use case
scenario for people in midlife,because there's a concept that I
did not invent I forgot thename of the guy, but he called
it melatonopause.
Basically, our melatonin, likeour deep sleep, starts to
decrease in midlife.
There's a graph that I havethat basically shows the big

(45:24):
slump after 50.
So personally, I don't find anyissue with people who are in
midlife and beyond supplementingwith a small dose of melatonin.
So I use that.
I use something called cuddlesleep and honestly, I use it
mostly because I think it tastesso delicious.

It's like a little oh, so you do it before,
before you go to bed.
Yeah, like you would having aherbal tea or something like
that.

Yeah, To me it's like I've got a sweet tooth and
I kind of want a little dessert,sort of without a dessert.
So I just make this littlesleepy drink and it's got some
really good ingredients in it.
There's a lot to it really.
I kind of go back and forthwith supplements because I guess

(46:12):
at the end of the day I reallyfeel like if you are relying on
supplements as your first stepin correcting your sleep, you're
kind of majoring in the minors,right.
So in my world, supplements arereally the last thing to be
added for most people, because Iwant to focus more on teaching
people sustainable habits thatthey can have for the rest of

(46:35):
their lives.
And then the supplements comein as a tweak.
Mainly, your mileage may varywith supplements.
There are certain ingredientsthat have been looked at and
studied a little bit more thanothers.
But I mean, I read a lot of youknow I jump in or like, look at
a lot of posts about midlifesleep and what's working for

(46:56):
people and just the variance ofanswers they give for
supplements is just like there'sno like real consistent
supplement that seems to workfor everybody.
So I just kind of say to peopleexperiment with things if you
want.
Honestly, there's quite a bitof a placebo effect with a lot

(47:17):
of supplements, I think.
So a lot of things.
People will say, oh, thatdefinitely worked for me, but
did it work for you because youthought it would work for you,
or did it work for you becausethe ingredients were that
powerful, Like?
I just feel like these arequestions that we kind of have
to ask ourselves.
I mean, you know, I'm not surehow much that little chocolate
drink helps me sleep, but I likethe ritual of doing it.

(47:41):
I find enjoyment from it.
I might be wasting my money, Idon't know.

Well, you know what, though?
You have that drink, drink andit's your body signal to start
winding down.
So it could be that mentalthing, because I do herbal tea
every night before I go to bedand I'm doing the dishes and I'm
heating up the water, andthat's kind of my little routine

(48:08):
, right.
And then I go put on my pajamas.
Now it's still light out and Ifeel like a big old dork because
I'm putting on my pajamas andit's still light out, but that's
.

Yeah, me too, me too.

You know, the other thing that I know gets
touted quite a bit for helpingwomen with sleep in terms of a
supplement is magnesium.

Yeah, that's probably the most popular one
Now.
I used to recommend magnesiumglycinate as the magnesium for
sleep, but I recently heard Ibelieve it was Dr Matt Walker
share some new information.
Walker share some newinformation.

(48:52):
He was talking about magnesiumthreonate being probably a
better choice because there'smore potential to cross the
blood-brain barrier.
So now my you know, I mean myopinions are going to change,
you know, as we move on and aswe get more data.
But right now, if I were topick a magnesium that I would
use, I'd probably go with the 3and 8.
Glycinate probably isn't a badchoice.
There's at least eightdifferent types of magnesium and

(49:15):
sometimes it's nice to have afull spectrum, but some people
find it really helpful.
I honestly never really feltmany effects from magnesium, but
certain people swear by them.
But I think if you're going tostart with something, that might
be a good starting point,because there's probably more
data on magnesium than there ison other types of ingredients.

Yeah, I know that it's recommended a lot for bone
health.
The only issue you getsometimes if you get a high
enough dose of magnesium, eveneven the glycinate is that you
get some gastrointestinal issuesyeah, that's particularly true
with magnesium citrate.

Yeah, so I I'd say , if, if you're going to
experiment with magnesium, maybemaybe don't go with the citrate
.
If bowel issues are an issuefor you, that might not be the
the preferred one.
And, um, you know, watch thedosage like, try not to get too
high, too fast, try to kind ofkeep it moderate, like two to

(50:19):
300 maybe at first.

Yeah, start low, go slow.
Yeah, yeah, I not to share toomuch, but I still have issues
just taking a small dose of themagnesium glycinate.

So I, yeah, well, it just that's just a case in
point to show that everyone isso bio-individual what's going
to work for you may not work forsomeone else.

Alrighty, I have just a case in point to show
that everyone is sobio-individual what's going to
work for you may not work forsomeone else.
All righty, I have just a fewmore quick questions for you.
I know we're kind of going long, but these are kind of
important.
What are your thoughts on CBDfor help sleeping?

Yeah.
So there's not a ton of dataabout CBD that I could find,
because I've been asked aboutthis topic before.
It seems to be the best optionfor people who have potentially
a lot of anxiety and also withpain.
Those are sort of the, I guess,the demographics I would

(51:13):
probably steer CBD toward.
Now you may hear that youshould start low and go slow.
All of the people who have soldme CBD have counseled me on
that and it makes sense from ageneral perspective as far as
any supplement or any medication.
But I did actually hearsomething interesting about CBD

(51:37):
on a Matthew Walker podcast awhile back.
He delves into realsleep-specific issues and he was
talking about lower doses ofCBD, under 25 milligrams,
potentially promotingwakefulness.
So I throw that out there.
If somebody is taking a lowdose of CBD and it's not helping

(52:00):
their sleep, perhaps it'sbecause it's too low, right.
So he did actually show a studythat showed that sleep quality
was best at like 80 milligrams.
The study showed a higher boostin sleep quality at 80
milligrams, which seems likekind of a lot.
So I I think that with thiskind of like conflicting data or

(52:24):
conflicting up you know advice,it may just be worthwhile to
experiment with the differentdosing and if you find that, I
mean it's, it's probably not abad idea to start low and go
slow.
I mean also in terms of money,these CBD supplements are not
cheap Correct At all, and so ifyou immediately jump to the high

(52:48):
dose, you could go through abottle in a couple weeks and it
would be expensive overall.
So it may not from a costperspective.
It may be worth trying a lowerdose first, seeing how that
works for you.
If it doesn't really help youwith sleep, maybe bump it up.
I've personally tried a lot ofCBD products.

(53:09):
Several companies have sent metheir products, so I haven't
really had to shell out my ownmoney for many of these,
fortunately.
But they've been like gummiesand like the oil tinctures.
Nothing has really moved theneedle for me very much with CBD
and I'm tracking my sleeppretty rigorously.

(53:30):
However, I have friends andclients who tell me CBD has been
a game changer for them andclients who tell me CBD has been
a game changer for them.
So, just like with anysupplement, your mileage may
vary according to who you are,but it seems to be a pretty
benign type of supplement.
I don't know of any ill effectsthat people have reported from

(53:52):
taking CBD, so it's a prettybenign thing to try, okay.

You know, I too have people sending me samples
of things, and I did try the CBDthe other night.
Now I did wake up at like 2 inthe morning, so I don't know if
it's when the CBD wore off.
Could have been yeah.
So I'm going to try it again.
These were gummies, and don'task me what the milligram was

(54:20):
and I even asked them.
I said so I'm kind of on thesmall side, should I do one or
two?
And he's like, no, go ahead anddo two.
And I said okay, so I did, andI did fall asleep very quickly.
So I you know.

That's why I wanted to ask you and a couple
other follow-ups to that, theperson who sold it to you or the
company.
Like I, usually tend to seekcounsel from the people who own
the company, or if it's anindependent distributor.
One of the, a friend of mine,sold the CBD and she I got

(54:55):
counsel from her on how to doseit because she knows her product
and sold the CBD and I gotcounsel from her on how to dose
it because she knows her product.
If you're confused, I would goto the company and explain, just
like with what you did, becausethey are going to know their
product better and I thinkthat's a good starting point.
Also, gummies, though I feellike if I had to choose a CBD
delivery route, I would probablypersonally go with the tincture

(55:17):
, the oil that goes under yourtongue that had to choose a CBD
delivery route, I would probablypersonally go with the tincture
, the oil that goes under yourtongue.
That seems to work a little bitfaster.
With the gummies, it has to gothrough your digestion process.
And then the gummies they havesugar in them, which you know.
I mean it's not like you're notlike pounding the gummies like
a bag of them, but still I meanif you're kind of watching your

(55:37):
intake at night and you'rewatching your calories and
you're trying to do a realcircadian fast.
That might kick you out of the,you know, because they do have
calories, yeah.
So I tend to veer toward thetinctures myself if I'm going to
experiment with that.

That's good advice, all right.
My other question was if youhave a client, Morgan, who says,
Morgan, I cannot fall asleepunless I have a couple cocktails
at night, how do you coach aclient through that?

Yeah, that's a tricky one, but in my coaching I
have my clients fill out asleep journal.
It's a Google Doc.
I prepare for them aspreadsheet that they input
their sleep statistics.
And when somebody is drinkingon a regular basis and they're
complaining about their sleep,what I'll do is I'll go over the

(56:37):
data with them and I will pointout to them okay, notice, on
Saturday night you had threedrinks.
Notice how many wake-ups youhad.
Notice, you rated your qualityof sleep a two out of five.
Okay, so it's like if youobjectively point out that the
data is indicating poor qualitysleep based on the amount of

(57:02):
alcohol they're having, it issort of like a wake-up call for
them.
In a way, it's giving them theinformation that hey, guess what
, there's no denying thisanymore Like, the amount of
alcohol you're having isimpacting your quality.
You're waking up a lot.
You didn't have a good ratingof quality.
You said that you were hot, yousweated.
This isn't just random.

(57:25):
So I think that when you canshow somebody through, either
you know it doesn't have to be.
If you're out there listeningyou could just use a sleep
tracker or a ring or a whoop orwhatever.
You'll see pretty clearly howit impacts you and you have two
choices you can either proceedon and complain about your sleep
and keep drinking, or you canmake some changes about your

(57:49):
sleep, about your alcohol intake, and then watch your sleep
improve.
So I know that kind of soundslike a little bit of tough love,
but people appreciate thehonesty, you know.
At least my clients appreciatethe.
You know I'm not it's not, youknow, dogmatic, judgmental.
It's just like the facts of thefacts.
But the numbers aren't lyinghere.
Alcohol does help us get tosleep a little bit more quickly,

(58:11):
so it's accomplishing that end.
So in a situation like that,where somebody's really anxious
about getting to sleep, what Iwould try to work with them on
is finding a substitute.
Maybe we'd go to a supplementthat might be probably the first
approach Maybe something withL-theanine, something with GABA,
something that's been, you know, studied to be a little bit

(58:33):
more relaxing.
I mean even, you know, cbd mighteven do the trick for some
people going back to loopingback to CBD no, I don't sell it
people, but yeah, or offering,like you know, and maybe it's
also the ritual of the drinkingof it.
So if they're wanting thatexperience of a cocktail, then

(58:58):
maybe turn to one of thealcohol-free alternative mixers.
There are so many out right now.
I mean you can get them in cans, I mean you could get pretty
much anything these days as anon-alcoholic substitute, so
potentially they could have thatas a stand-in for a cocktail or
your good old cup of herb tea.

That's what.

I do.
Yeah, I mean, that's always agreat option, but I think it's
also just getting out of thehabit of doing it.
You know, once you've proven toyourself you can do it for a
couple of nights, then I thinkthat gives you the confidence.
Hey, I can continue doing this,right.

Okay, all right.
Good, we talked about sleepapnea a little bit, but I have
seen some influencers on socialmedia wearing mouth tape and so
I know I am a back sleeper and Iget the nudge from my husband
sometimes because I'm breathing.
Funny, and I was curious aboutyour thoughts about mouth tape.

Yeah.
Well, truth be told, when Ifirst started my work as a sleep
coach, that was when I firstdiscovered mouth tape, and I
pretty much was sharing it withall of my clients.
That is not really what Ishould have been doing, but I
own that when you're goingthrough some of the coaching

(01:00:19):
training, the apnea part doesn'tget covered, I don't think, in
some of my courses.
So what I have learned aboutmouth taping is that it's as
I've gotten more comfortablewith the topic of sleep apnea.
Mouth taping can actuallybackfire on people if they

(01:00:40):
haven't gotten their sleepbreathing assessed.
So these days when I'm workingwith people, I am not
recommending that as just like akind of like everyone try this,
because we don't, you know,unless they've been tested for
sleep apnea.
Now, if you have been testedfor sleep apnea, you're clear

(01:01:01):
you don't have any sleepbreathing issues.
Sure, it's something you cantry.
If you're going to try it,though, I would definitely
recommend trying it during theday, maybe putting it on your
mouth for an hour or two whileyou're working at your desk,
just to see how comfortable youare and how well you are to well
, how well you are that you'reable to breathe through your
nose, because some people dohave trouble breathing through

(01:01:23):
their nose.
So you just want to be careful.
You know it's I think it's itwas a little bit overplayed as
like sort of like everyone needsto mouth tape.
I mean that was, you know thething.
There's not like a whole lot ofevidence out there that it
helps your sleep quality thatmuch.
Now we are supposed to bebreathing through our noses.

(01:01:44):
I mean, that's the way we'redesigned to breathe, so it's
ideal to breathe through yournose and for sure you are going
to probably breathe more slowlyif you're breathing through your
nose.
It helps with yourparasympathetic nervous system
regulation to do that nasalbreathing.
But I haven't seen really evenin my own data looking at my

(01:02:08):
sleep and my readiness.
I didn't notice a huge effectfrom mouth taping or not.
I still tape.
It's out of habit.
I feel kind of naked if Ihaven't taped.
I feel kind of like what'sgoing on.
I want that on my mouth.
I do notice that there aretimes when I've traveled and
forgotten my mouth tape, that Iwill wake up with a dry mouth

(01:02:30):
and that's basically a sign thatyou're probably doing too much
mouth breathing.
So bottom line is if you'rethinking about doing mouth tape.
I would urge you to have yoursleep breathing assessed to make
sure that you're okay to beputting something over your
mouth and that you're able tobreathe through your nose okay.

Michele Folan (01:02:50):
Okay, all right, that's great advice.
I like that, and I am waking upwith a dry mouth and I don't
think I'm.
I'm not stopping breathing, butI am breathing through my mouth
and it annoys my husband.
But you know, whatever, I makehim wear a mouthpiece because he
does have sleep apnea.
So, yeah, you know, I knowyou've probably got a million of

(01:03:13):
these, but could you share aclient success story with us?

Morgan Adams (01:03:19):
Yeah, sure.
So there is a woman I'll callher Pam, and she is a business
owner and a mom to two children,very active children and she
had been prescribed Ambien sinceshe was in college and I think

(01:03:40):
she's about 40.
This was a couple years agoshe's probably about 40 now and
the doctor just kept prescribingit year after year after year,
and, as we, you know, we mayhave talked about this earlier,
but that's really not the waysleeping pills should be
prescribed.
They shouldn't be refill afterrefill after refill.

(01:04:01):
So she needed help getting offof her sleeping pills.
Not only was she on sleepingpills, but she was drinking
several nights a week.
She was having alcohol severalnights a week, and so the way
that I chose to proceed with herwas CBTI Cognitive Behavioral
Therapy for Insomnia and what wedid for her is we really looked

(01:04:24):
at her consistency of hersleep-wake patterns and we got
her getting up at the same timeevery morning, not lingering in
bed, going to sleep around thesame time, and we also were able
to reduce her alcohol.
So she did not completely stopalcohol, but she basically made
the decision to limit heralcohol to only the weekend and

(01:04:47):
to cap out at two and to startdrinking earlier.
So when we were able todecrease her alcohol use and
quantity, her sleep quality didget higher.
And then I introduced amindfulness component to
insomnia, or a mindfulnessapproach to insomnia.

(01:05:08):
That involved some meditations,and she really found that to be
very helpful in terms ofgetting more in touch with her
feelings and thoughts during theday.
And what I've noticed aboutthis mindfulness for insomnia
approach is that it not onlyhelps my clients sleep better,

(01:05:32):
but it also actually has beenhelping them during the daytime
with their issues that they faceduring the day with their
friends and their co-workers.
Being more mindful in thepresent is helping their
relationships overall.
So it's kind of neat to seeclients make gains in their

(01:05:53):
sleep and overcome the insomnia,stop the sleeping pills, reduce
alcohol.
But also, just for this lady inparticular, she was more
present with her children.
You know she was, just as abusiness owner, very distracted
and with this new approach shewas able to like really focus in
on her children when theyneeded her, yeah, and when they

(01:06:14):
were asking for her attention.

You know and I will say this too is that you
know when you're sleeping.
Well, you don't realize itright away, but your whole world
changes.
It sure does.
I mean how you deal with people, your patients, I mean
everything.
It's amazing.

(01:06:37):
So you've talked a little bitabout some of the things that
you do, but was there any onething, morgan, that you did with
your own sleep habits over timethat just made the biggest
impact for you?

I would say with my habits.
I think that probably theconsistency piece was really a
game changer.
So getting to bed around thesame time each night, waking up

(01:07:13):
around the same time eachmorning, has been very helpful
in terms of just well.
Sometimes I go back and forthwaking up too early, which is
another perimenopausal symptomwith sleep, but it's getting a
little bit better.
It kind of comes and goes, butI generally wake up, you know,
on my own around five.
I have an early bird chronotype, so that's like very normal for

(01:07:39):
me to wake up in the morning.
Light.
That's been great.
Getting daylight throughout theday, having what I call light
snacks oh, I like thatThroughout the day, has been
very helpful in terms of just,you know you're getting 95% of
your intracellular melatoninduring the day, so that daylight
is actually helping your sleep.
People sometimes forget that,that what we do in the day very

(01:08:01):
much influences our sleep.

Yeah, so is there any truth to the idea that you
get your optimal sleep likebetween 10 pm and 2 am?
Is there any truth to that

There is some degree of truth to that.
Yeah, because we're getting alot of our deep sleep in the
very beginning of the night.
So I think you know you willget deep sleep no matter when
you go to bed.
But I feel like from acircadian perspective, like a 10
o'clock bedtime is probablypreferable than a bedtime of

(01:08:37):
midnight.
I feel like the people thatI've worked with and the people
that I've just known throughoutthe years, they tell me they
feel better overall when they goto bed a little bit earlier.
Now, I'm not advocatingeverybody do that, but if you're
a midnight person, you may haveactually created your lifestyle
as a night owl.

(01:08:58):
A lot of times people will say,oh, I'm a night owl and they
think that's what they arenaturally.
But when they change theirhabits, especially at night
around the light and the food,they discover that they are not
as much of a night owl as theythought they were.
So, yeah, I've known many, manypeople to basically change

(01:09:19):
their habits and move theircircadian rhythm a little bit
earlier, to kind of shift thatrhythm and feel better overall.

Well, I guess too , the other part of that is, you
don't want to go to bed at 10o'clock if you're not truly
tired.

Yeah, great point.
Yeah, you really want to relyon the cues of your body to tell
you when to go to bed, andthat's one of the reasons why
I'm really advocating for thatvery consistent wake-up time,
because about 16 or 17 hoursafter you wake up is when your
sleepy chemical called adenosinebuilds up and you need to

(01:09:55):
release that adenosine and theform of that seven or eight
hours of sleep so you can kindof reliably count on having that
feeling of sleepiness come overyou around the same time if
you're waking up at the sametime.

Okay, I have a more, another kind of more
personal question for you.
What is one of your ownself-care?
Non-negotiables?
What's something you do foryourself every day Exercise?

every day?
Okay, Every day.
The only time I don't exerciseis if I'm like legitimately sick
or I have like a travel daywhere I catch a flight at five
or six.
Because I'm a morning workoutperson, I usually work out
around eight and so if I'mtraveling I miss the workout,

(01:10:45):
but it's pretty much anon-negotiable for me.
It's really.
It's kind of the way I keep myenergy level.
I feel kind of like I'm notreally ready to get to work and
do things until I've had that 30minutes of either strength or
cardio.
I just feel like that I needthat to kind of set the tone for
my day.

Yeah, that's perfect.
Yeah, it's great.
It's not a surprise, is it?

No no.

And I actually encourage my clients, whenever
they can, to try to, you know,work out in the morning.
So, and speaking of clients,how do you work with clients?
Morgan?
Yeah, I work with clientsone-to-one.

So, and speaking of clients, how do you work with
clients, morgan?
Yeah, I work with clientsone-to-one, so with women who
either have insomnia or theywant to optimize their sleep.
I work with them for, you know,two, three, four months usually
, and get them in a better spotfor their sleep.
And yeah, that's generally whatI'm, what I'm doing, how I'm
helping.

Okay, and then where is your website?
How can they find you?

Morgan A (01:11:41):
MorganAdamsWellnesscom is my website.
There you will find the guidethat I mentioned, the 3 am
wake-up guide.
You can also find a link toschedule what I call a sleep
clarity call.
If you feel like you'resomebody who could benefit from
working with a sleep coach, wecan have a chat and talk about
that.
And then my Instagram handle ismorganadamswellness.

(01:12:01):
You can find me there, followme, dm me and say hi, I love to
talk about sleep, so do not be astranger.
Yeah.

And I do follow you and I love your tips because
every once in a while I'm like,oh, I kind of forgot about that
.
That's a really good one.
So I recommend everybody giveMorgan a follow.
And this was great to catch up.
I really appreciate you beinghere.
Always great information.
Thank you for inviting me again.
It's been awesome.
Hey, thanks for tuning in.

(01:12:33):
Please rate and review the showwhere you listen to the podcast
.
And did you know that Askingfor a Friend is available now to
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You can subscribe to thepodcast there as well.
Your support is appreciated andit helps others find the show.
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Ep.149 Snooze or Lose: Sleep - The Foundation You Can't Ignore

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep.149 Snooze or Lose: Sleep - The Foundation You Can't Ignore