May 1, 2025 • 44 mins
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Leadership Test: Are you Bill Clinton or David Letterman?
When crisis hits your senior living community, there are two ways leaders show up:
Deny, deflect, and damage trust (Bill Clinton strategy)
Own it, address it, and build stronger relationships (David Letterman strategy)
The truth?
You can't lead through crisis by pretending it’s not happening.
You can only lead through it with influence, authenticity, and proactive communication.
In this week's episode of Aspire for More with Erin, I sit down with PR crisis expert Jeff Bell to break down:
▪️ Why crisis communication isn’t about perfection—it’s about ownership.
▪️ The 3 biggest mistakes leaders make in times of crisis.
▪️ How to lead through vulnerability, not around it.
If you're a senior living leader, you can't afford to miss this conversation.
Your reputation is built in the hard moments.
Your influence is measured when things go wrong—not when everything’s going right.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:51 Jeff Bell's Professional Journey
01:31 Think Tank and Parenting Insights
02:37 Crisis Management: Clinton vs. Letterman
03:38 Lessons from Clinton and Letterman Scandals
06:22 Crisis Management in Senior Living
08:27 The Importance of Transparency and Honesty
12:56 Handling Online Reviews and Personal Accountability
15:03 Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
19:38 Media Training and Public Relations
23:02 Humility and Power in Crisis Management
25:05 Understanding True Humility
26:05 The Short-Lived Pain of Truth
27:25 The Consequences of Hiding
29:41 Handling Criticism and Crisis
30:26 The Importance of Crisis Planning
37:16 Transparency Over Perfection
40:16 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Aspire for More with
Aaron, where I have Mr.
Jeff Bell and we are gonna goover a question today, Clinton
or Letterman.
That is the question that we'regoing to be exploring.
You're going to have to stickaround to figure out why we're
talking about Clinton.
(00:21):
Letterman, but first, Mr.
Jeff Bell, who is the founder,CEO of Bell PR and marketing, a
crisis manager expert, a new dadof girls that is a, also a dad
of older boys.
And so his life has completelybeen changed upside down in the
(00:42):
last few years.
Kansas City Chiefs fan androyals.
Baseball fan.
Anything else that I can add?
Jeff?
Jeff (00:49):
no.
You hit it right on the head.
I would say, yeah, crisismanager former, radio
broadcaster.
I cut my teeth in.
News was a journalism major incollege, about 10, 12 years.
As a reporter News talk host,and then made my way into the PR
world, founded Bell, asinitially just a PR and crisis,
(01:09):
agency.
And we have since evolved andmorphed into a full service
digital marketing agency justbased on client need and demand.
And so we really do it all now.
Everything from PR and crisis towebsite builds to, digital
marketing, social mediamanagement, you name it, we do
it.
And, I'm the crazy guy whostarted a company at the
beginning of the pandemic and,somehow we're still standing and
(01:30):
doing well.
Erin (01:31):
yeah.
I first met you at Think Tank.
We've been to think Tank nowtwice together.
It's so much fun to just hearyour perspective and all your
insights and how you're notscared to go there, even from an
emotional answer.
To a tough guy, answer yourinsights and encourage has been
something that I've reallywatched from afar and
(01:54):
appreciated.
Jeff (01:55):
Think Tank is, as we say all the time, it's so unique
among, events in our industryand, it's that like-minded
like-hearted approach.
And, as I've learned from beinga boy dad to being now, a dad of
two young girls, it's you gottahave that, hard approach, but
sometimes you've also gotta bethe tough guy.
So there's like a fine linethere.
Erin (02:13):
I can only imagine.
I have a boy and a girl, but Ican only imagine being a boy dad
and then your life completelyturning upside down to being a
girl dad.
And you realize all the ruleshave changed.
Jeff (02:26):
Everything's changed.
Yeah.
It's like going from power toolsand football to Barbie dolls and
tea parties I'm loving everyminute of it.
I'm learning as I go.
Erin (02:35):
That's funny.
That's funny.
Okay, so we're gonna dive into,I think crisis management is an
excellent topic, especially forcommunity level leaders because
we don't always get to see whatit is at the very top.
Like how do you know thecorporate upper echelon people
(02:55):
handle all the different crisis?
And nor do we as a communityleader know all the crisis that
are going on within theportfolio of the company and all
the things they have.
To all the fires they have toput out.
And I know that I, in mycommunity, had an experience
where crisis management wassomething that, that I had to
walk through.
(03:16):
And when we talked about thispodcast episode and what to talk
about, you blew my mind when yousaid, do you wanna be Bill
Clinton or do you wanna be DavidLetterman?
And I was like, oh my gosh, thisis such a great topic.
So take it away from there froma crisis standpoint and what you
(03:37):
mean by that.
Jeff (03:38):
Yeah.
it really is for those of us, Iguess for any of our younger
listeners or viewers, whodidn't, maybe experience the
1990s, when those of us who didthink of Bill Clinton, no matter
what else he accomplished aspresident and he accomplished a
lot and did some really goodthings.
We think about the MonicaLewinsky scandal.
And for those of us who thinkabout David Letterman, we don't
(03:58):
think about his scandal.
And you might even have toscratch your head for a second
and say, wait a minute, DavidLetterman had a scandal.
And the reason is crisismanagement and approach to
crisis management, and it'samazing.
The difference of how those tworeputations turned out.
And if Bill Clinton had listenedto this podcast before the,
Lewinsky scandal, he might'vecome out smelling, much
(04:21):
differently than he did, on theother side.
So I can expand on what I, whatI mean by that.
so the Clinton Lewinsky scandal.
Most people know about it,whether you live through it,
whether you've read about it.
Bill Clinton was having anaffair when he was president of
the United States, married man,having an affair with a White
House intern.
Monica Lewinsky eventually gotfound out, mostly because of,
(04:45):
some untruths that he toldduring a deposition.
Came back to bite him.
But when it really got into thepublic eye.
He went into deny, deny mode.
Wagged his finger at the camera.
I did not have so on and soforth.
Eventually the pressure mountedand he had no choice but to come
clean.
(05:05):
I did indeed do this.
I'm sorry it was wrong, so onand so forth.
But by that point, the damagewas done.
Flip side, David Letterman.
Had multiple affairs whileworking at CBS with people who
worked for him with staffers.
What happened was one of those,staffers told somebody else who
(05:26):
thought it would be a great ideato try to blackmail Dave.
Dave handled the situationcompletely differently before it
even got out.
It was gonna get out, but beforeit even got out that he was
having an affair, he opens hisshow live monologue and says,
this is what's been happening.
People thought it was a joke.
At first, people were laughinglike, wait.
(05:48):
Is he serious?
He just flat out owned it andwhen this is what's happening,
police are helping me with thisblack male situation.
My wife and I are going to havea lot of tough conversations,
and we're gonna have to work ourway through this.
We would appreciate privacy.
But here it is.
I have been a bad boy, andthat's it.
(06:09):
So again, the difference is noone thinks about when I say name
five things about DavidLetterman, no one mentions that.
No one even remembers it becausehe owned it and it went away.
So what's the lesson for SeniorLiving Crisis folks?
Don't be a Bill Clinton.
I don't care what the scandalis.
I don't care how bad you thinkyou're going to look, you will
(06:30):
look worse if you take theClinton approach versus the
Letterman approach.
People love transparency.
Erin (06:38):
They really do.
So not only did Clinton, denyit, like you said, he had his
waving his finger in the cameramoment, which is so like.
how dare you like real egostyle.
I'm the president of the UnitedStates.
And that righteous inindignation just fired up
(06:58):
people.
And of course you give people anemotional reaction, it's going
to go and if people think you'relying, they're going to, there
are people that are gonna go tothe ends of the earth to prove
you wrongly.
And so you absolutely just gavethem ammunition.
Jeff (07:14):
Absolutely.
And it led to an impeachmentwhich cost the taxpayers money.
Yes.
Possibly you could make theargument Al Gore losing an
election a few years later,because he couldn't shake off
the dust, so to speak, of theimpeachment scandal.
All of it could have gone awaywith that transparency.
Most of us in senior living arenot gonna have a scandal on the
(07:35):
scale of the president of theUnited States having an affair
and lying about it.
But whatever it is, whether it'sbig or small, we're gonna face a
crisis at some point.
And the reputation of ourorganization, the reputation,
frankly, of our residence, is onthe line.
The reputation of ourselvespersonally is on the line.
And if you make a mistake, ownit, or even if you didn't do
(07:59):
anything wrong, but some thingshappened that.
Even with the best protocols inplace, fell through the cracks,
own that sometimes ourreputation, or not our
reputation, but sometimes ourinstinct can be like the kid who
got caught with his hand in thecookie jar to go, I wasn't in
the cookie jar, or like theshaggy, it wasn't me.
kind of thing.
And it doesn't do any good.
(08:20):
We get caught and we end uplooking like gaslighting
horrible people.
I teach a college class on PR aswell, and I tell my students,
let's even take out the moralityof just the right thing to do,
is be honest from just a purebusiness standpoint.
Being dishonest hurts you.
(08:41):
Every time it will cost youmoney.
It will cost you trust, it willcost you in senior living
residents.
It will cost you maybe evenbuildings.
It can spiral out of control sofast and it's so hard to
recover.
So when mistakes happen, Ialways tell our clients, okay,
if you're gonna work with us forcrisis, we're gonna be David
Letterman, and I won't bend onthat.
Erin (09:03):
yeah.
Denial, resistance, damage tolong-term trust, all of that.
It's hard to recover from,you're gonna have to go on a
long mea culpa campaign andpeople are going to always look
at you from an angle of, can Ieven trust what you're saying?
Even to the smallest entity.
Like it, it's, it is crazy.
(09:26):
the last.
Like you cannot think ofClinton, you cannot look at the
Clintons without thinking aboutthat scandal.
And then in an excellentcomparison, you look at David
Letterman and even with the showthat he's doing now on Netflix,
you look at him as a wise man.
(09:47):
At one time he was a dirty man,and yet we look at him like a
wise man because he realizedthat he was making a mistake.
He took accountability, he wastransparent about it.
He was uncomfortable.
You've got to know that momentwas.
(10:10):
So uncomfortable and so painful,but because he took
accountability, it took thepower away from anyone that
wanted to destroy him.
Jeff (10:21):
It did.
It did.
And then on the flip side, ifyou look at the damage down the
road for the Clintons, Imentioned Al Gore.
When Hillary Clinton ran againstDonald Trump in 2016, she tried
to paint him.
As what he was, frankly, anadulterer, a locker room,
braggadocio, whatever you wantto call it.
(10:41):
It fell on deaf ears becausepeople looked at her and went,
your husband's the same thing.
No one took it seriously.
And so a political opportunityfell by the wayside.
And we don't ever think aboutthat when we're in the midst of
a lie that 20, 30 years later,this is still gonna come up.
Yeah.
and it's, we have to treat ourrelationship with the truth.
(11:04):
The same way that we treat it inor should treat it in a
marriage, in a friendship, in arelationship with our kids,
whatever it is, if I start lyingto my daughters, it's not too
long before they don't trust dadanymore.
And when dad comes with goodadvice, maybe they don't take it
because why would I trust himnow?
You lie and, one lie turns intoanother lie and so on and so
(11:25):
forth.
it's very common sense stuff.
But I'm amazed at how often theinstinct of someone who reaches
out to us for crisis management,their instinct is to do exactly
that.
We've gotta cover this up.
And I always say, no.
If you want someone to help youcover something up, we're not
the agency for you.
We don't do that.
Erin (11:41):
proactive communication.
In the moment you can take thisdown to a very micro level as
somebody inside senior living asa leader, inside senior living
as a director of nursing or anexecutive director, when
something happens and you havethe crossroads of saying, if I
don't do anything about this, ifI don't tell anybody about this,
(12:04):
then no one has to know.
Or you can just say, I'm justgoing to make the decision to be
proactive, to communicate aboutthis, to learn from it, to take
accountability, to face whateverneeds to be done.
I'm going to grow trust, I'mgoing to grow credibility, and
I'm gonna learn from theexperience.
(12:25):
Like we think that crisis arethese big moments and they are,
but we can avoid these crisis,big crisis.
If we just understand the powerof proactive communication, and
it really is as simple as makingthe choice of saying this
happened.
Here's what we've done about it,and here's what we're going to
(12:47):
do about it to prevent it fromhappening in the future.
Again, that is crisismanagement.
On a very micro level,
Jeff (12:55):
it absolutely is.
And there are different forms ofcrisis too, now that we live in
this digital world, a crisis canbe an online review because all
of the data says people takeonline reviews as the gospel
truth.
They trust them as much as theydo word of mouth.
So it doesn't matter whetherwhat the person's saying in the
review is true or not.
What matters is someone's gonnathink that it is.
(13:17):
And so how do you handle that?
The other thing the data tellsus is that almost anybody who
sees a response from an ownerthat takes some sort of
responsibility for a negativereview, no longer views the
review as negative, but so oftenresponses go, nothing.
It's silence and people seesilence and they go, oh, that
must be true.
(13:37):
They didn't even respond.
Or they responded in a way thatsounds very plastic and thank
you for your response.
Please contact us at it doesn'tdo any good.
Own it.
Acknowledge we understand howyou're feeling.
We understand that thissituation was upsetting.
Here are some things toconsider.
Whatever it is.
(13:58):
Own it.
So often we're so quick and wedo this personally too.
someone calls us out onsomething and we just dive into
defense mode.
And if we would just take thosetwo seconds to go, hold on.
They're actually right aboutthis.
this happens with my wife.
Just, you go call me out onsomething in a moment and I
start to go, you're just, andI'm like, wait a minute.
Okay.
Ego, go away.
(14:19):
She's right.
I don't put my socks where theygo or, whatever it is.
And so let's just, take a stepback and realize that's okay.
We're human.
And people understand that andthey accept that.
And, one of the things I alwaystell people is the most
important decision you make is.
How you respond to your secondinstinct in a situation.
(14:41):
What I mean by that is our firstinstinct is always defense mode
or always to put a shell aroundourselves.
But then if we stop and we reactdifferently to that first
instinct, and we handle asituation rationally, honestly
and correctly, we end up comingout on the good side most of the
time.
Erin (15:01):
Yeah, that's true.
I've been really studying likeemotions.
I think that senior living morethan a real estate company or
more than a healthcareprofession.
I say that, that senior livingis like an emotional tornado of.
Everything going on.
(15:21):
And when we study emotions, wecan actually be, become more
self-aware and better leadersbecause we realize that we can
control our emotions andemotions go away in 90 seconds
if you sit there and you letthem.
And ego, ego is another part ofemotions that we have to be
aware of.
And so you're right, like thatinitial pain of being.
(15:46):
Hot or being called out, likeall you wanna do is defend
yourself.
And I am a naturally defensiveperson, and have certainly done
that in my career a lot.
And I realize now, and I wasactually really good at this,
inside the community was outsidethe community that I struggle
with it more.
But like you have to allowpeople to advocate for
(16:08):
themselves.
And then you have to realizethey've shown you how they're
gonna react when situations comeup.
So plan for it.
It's, if they're gonna react acertain way because the soup is
cold, they're certainly gonnareact a certain way when
something of greater importanceis happening.
So allow the emotion to rise upand yes, go for the second
(16:33):
instinct.
Don't defend yourself, becausewhen you defend yourself, you
carry on this legacy with thatfamily and with anybody else
who's watching.
they're not gonna know how totalk to you.
They're gonna feel like it's awaste of time, all these things,
because you're just going todefend yourself and you're, that
is a battle you will never win.
(16:55):
And when Brene Brown said this.
We, at some point figure outthat the armor that we've been
carrying no longer serves us.
You let it down and in a crisis,the armor does not serve you.
Jeff (17:10):
It doesn't serve you at all.
And you're so right about itdoesn't, emotions in senior
living too.
if I could think of the twoorganizations where your crisis.
It reaches a fever pitch justbecause of the nature of what
you do.
I would say senior living anddaycares.
Yeah, because you are takingcare of precious people.
Someone's extremely preciouschild.
(17:32):
They're precious grandparent.
They're precious parent.
And yeah, there are times whenthey're gonna be upset.
And to your point, if you startgoing into defense mode, and
maybe your first instinct isright on some level, but think
about perception.
They want to be heard.
They want to feel like they'reheard and they wanna see you
(17:52):
attempting to solve a problem.
And you can't do that if you'respending so much time defending
yourself.
Now, there are gonna besituations where yes, absolutely
you have a team member that youhave to defend.
You have an organizational.
Reputation to defend.
And that's why agencies likeours are helpful because we can
help you navigate that.
But never, leave a conversationwhere a family member or a
(18:16):
resident feels like they wereunheard and that you were
uncaring.
And it's so easy to do itwithout even meaning to, because
most of us, at the end of theday, do care.
We do want them to be heard, butsometimes we get so caught up in
our own ego without evenrealizing it, that we end up,
hurting our reputation andfurthering the damage instead of
repairing it.
Erin (18:37):
Yeah.
It's not about if I didn't dothe act, so we'll talk about
there was a huge crisis momentinside of my community.
I don't really give it muchairtime because it was painful
for the family, but.
I was not the one who made thechoice.
I was not the one who did theaction.
(18:58):
I was the one that had to be arepresentative to the families,
to potential news organizations,and I could not be defensive.
I didn't need to be defensivebecause I didn't do the action,
but I had to be very, veryhumble.
I had to take accountability andI had to say, we're still the
(19:21):
same community.
one person made a choice.
It's not exactly how it'sportrayed in the media, but it
was a choice that wasinappropriate and painstakingly,
hurtful to our community andthat family.
We're still the same,
Jeff (19:38):
And that's so important and there are so many lessons,
and I can say this because Iused to be a reporter, so I
really do have a very fair, Ithink in insider's viewpoint of
the media, both the faults andthe positives, there are great
reporters out there who reallyare just looking for the truth
and they view themselves as thatwatchdog for the public.
There are other reporters whoare more trained in, maybe
(19:59):
through no fault of their ownGotcha type journalism.
And that's where we have to keepour composure.
Because like you said, thatsituation may not have been
portrayed in the media the wayyou wanted it to be portrayed.
But sometimes we stop there onthe surface level, we go, oh my
gosh, this is terrible.
This is a Christ.
Look what they wrote.
But we forget that.
hold on.
What they wrote is not nearly asimportant as how we responded to
(20:21):
what they wrote.
Yes.
Or how we responded to thatquestion.
In Public, I saw an interviewthe other day, that just popped
up on social media with ElvisPresley in the 1970s, and they
asked him his opinion of wardemonstrators.
Remember, this was the height ofthe Vietnam War.
The country was very divided,and he basically said to the
reporter, I'm an entertainer.
(20:41):
I keep that stuff private, it'snot really my place.
then she pressed him further.
do you believe all entertainersshould keep it private?
And he said, I'm not gonna gothere.
That I don't feel that it doesany good for me.
Why would anyone listen to me?
A singer on an issue asimportant as that?
And kept pressing.
He never lost his cool.
And she ended up sounding silly.
(21:02):
40, 50 years later when you'rewatching that interview because
he didn't lose his cool and giveinto the pressure.
And it's so easy to do andthat's why we offer media
training because not everyone'sready for that.
Not everyone has even faced areporter in their lives before.
And so if you don't have alittle bit of training and a
little bit of preparation, yeah,you're probably gonna blow it
your first time,
Erin (21:23):
Yeah.
You give into the pressurebecause you think, oh my God,
there's gonna be millions ofpeople.
Watching you, but what'sinteresting about that Elvis is
that he knew the difference.
The difference is when youunderstand what the goal is, you
can stay committed to the actionand the reason.
And if you don't understand,then you can get caught up in
(21:45):
the emotional tornado and justreact and respond.
Jeff (21:49):
Yeah.
And sometimes it goes back tothe instinct conversation where
what's my first instinct versuswhat's my rational approach to
my first instinct?
And it's so important toremember that you can only
control what you can control.
You mentioned I'm a Chiefs andRoyals fan.
I always go back to, PatrickMahomes and the way that he
(22:10):
handles things in the scrutinyin the media, the scrutiny from
fans, the scrutiny from fansfrom other teams.
And all he does is control whathe can control.
He doesn't bad mouth otherpeople.
He doesn't say things that aresuper controversial.
He goes out and lets hisplaying, do the talking and when
he fails, like losing the SuperBowl very recently.
(22:31):
He takes responsibility and putsit all right here.
He doesn't point fingers, hedoesn't cast blame, he doesn't
throw teammates under the bus.
I remember reading that when hefirst got to Kansas City as a
first round draft pick, theywere amazed that he was calling
the people at the front desk inthe regular lobby of the home
offices.
Sir and ma'am.
(22:51):
so humble and, you could do amasterclass on just PR from
Patrick Mahomes, compared toother athletes who maybe haven't
learned those lessons so well.
Erin (23:01):
Yeah.
When you talk about controllingwhat you can control, and I
often refer to it taking yourpower back, it is literally.
Is humility, proactivecommunication, and listening.
Because if you were pointingfingers, you've just given
media, social media, so muchfodder to dive into.
(23:24):
But when you swallow your prideand you say, it doesn't matter.
Nothing else matters.
It was my choice, it was mydecisions, it was my lack of
preparation or whatever it is.
You have taken the air out.
Of anything moving forward.
And that is power.
that is power.
Jeff (23:44):
That's power.
And when do you have the courageto use that power?
Because I'm gonna bet somebodyat CBS did not like the idea of
David Letterman walking out andannouncing that on a monologue.
I'm gonna bet he got pushback.
And I don't know whether he didit because he was advised by
somebody or whether he did it.
My gut tells me he did itbecause he's just.
(24:05):
That wise of a person and herealized and understood that I
can either destroy myself hereor I can try to handle this with
humility and obviously he madethe right choice, but I
guarantee you the network execs.
Whether they knew he was gonnado that or when he did, it went,
(24:26):
oh, panic mode.
He's destroying his reputationlive on the air.
he wasn't.
He was doing the exact opposite.
He was repairing it in realtime.
It was like watching a surgeryin real time.
Erin (24:37):
So when I talk about humility a lot, I had to rebuild
myself after, I like to call itlike a Mariah Carey, like on
TRL, where she completely hadthis meltdown.
I am like, yeah, I feel like Idid that.
But anyways, humility hurts.
It's so easy to say, be humble.
Take the humility route andhumility hurts.
(25:01):
Like being David Letterman, wetalk about it, okay?
And standing there, and theneven if you're in a community
and talking to a family memberabout where you may have failed
at that caused an outcome thatwas uncomfortable or could have
hurt a resident.
When we say humility, we meanthe gut punch.
(25:26):
Yep.
The heart brokenness, the, oh myGod, I have to talk about this
in real time as it hurtsconversations and it knocks the
wind out of you and you feellike there's nothing that you
can do and it is one of thehardest times of your life that
(25:48):
is humility.
Yep.
that's humility.
It's not just being able to say,oh, this is what happened.
It is having to say the wordswhile you're hurting.
Jeff (25:58):
Yep.
Erin (25:59):
And that is far more painful than lying about it in
the moment.
But as you can see through ourtwo different scenarios, the
pain is short-lived.
Versus carrying on forever.
Jeff (26:14):
Yep.
Do you feel the gut punch in themoment?
Do you have the courage to takethe gut punch in the moment?
Yes.
Or are you gonna take that easyway out and realize, I remember
when I was a kid, that feelingof having to remember lies to my
parents.
Yes.
and they were silly things likeI rode my bike further than I
was supposed to, or I went tosomeone's house when I was
(26:34):
supposed to be at.
Football camp or whatever thecase may be, and then all of a
sudden, okay, hold on.
I told this lie, and then Igotta remember this, and now
I've gotta remember this lie.
And it's oh my gosh.
The truth is so much easier.
Even if it hurts in the moment,it's so much easier.
And to your point from earlierin our conversation, people
still trust you because we allinstinctively know as human
(26:57):
beings that we can make amistake.
So if I make a mistake and Ihurt you.
But I own it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Jeff's human, so am I.
But look at the integrity thathe showed in owning it versus,
oh look, he lied to me again andhe lied to me again, and now
he's still lying to me.
And trust is broken and it'svery difficult.
It's not impossible to repair,but I'd rather repair a crisis
(27:19):
in real time that I would repairthe fallout from.
Crisis is down the road.
We had a client several yearsago during a hurricane who made
the choice before they evercalled us to shut down their
Facebook page because, peopleare saying negative things that,
no.
You shut down that Facebook pageand now it looks like everything
that they've been saying istrue.
And you went into hiding.
(27:39):
Yeah.
Okay.
This is a hurricane.
You didn't create the hurricane.
You have your protocols inplace.
You know you're doing the rightthings.
Why are you hiding?
Don't hide.
Respond, be honest, be upfront.
If you made mistakes, own them.
But so often we want to go intoshells like we're a turtle and
just hide and hope that when wecome back out, things will be
better.
(27:59):
And they never are.
Erin (28:01):
No, they aren't.
I follow this page on Facebook.
It's a community page.
I'm trying to be very likenon-descriptive here and.
Some people were making somecomments about a part of their
aesthetic and the response thatthe community gave, it was so
(28:24):
bad, it was defensive.
It was blaming, and the commentsafter the initial com, it just
spiraled.
Jeff (28:33):
Yeah.
Erin (28:34):
And just admit We are, we've got this under control,
we're, this is what we're doing.
But instead it was very much thewall is coming up.
Jeff (28:44):
Yep.
Erin (28:44):
And now people are chiming in.
And this is again, a very microlevel of crisis PR management in
a very small area of a small,Town and I'm just like, That was
an initial, that was thatemotion that you just, you have
to let pass before you respond,
Jeff (29:06):
and it takes maturity to do it.
And we always see those peoplewho post the gif of Michael
Jackson eating popcorn.
And those popcorn watchers areout there.
And actually they're bigger thanthe commenters.
Yes.
And those popcorn watchers arewatching and boy, they're
judging like you would notbelieve they are the judge
Judys.
On the internet and they'rewatching to see how do you
(29:27):
react, how do you handle this?
And you don't want peopleposting the popcorn Jif because
that means that uhoh somethinghas escalated into a place that
you don't want it to be.
And again, we've all been there,we've all made that mistake.
I've made that mistake in mycareer criticism when I was a
reporter.
you talk about.
you have a news talk program.
you are going to get inundatedwith criticisms and
(29:50):
sensitivities related topolitics and the whole nine
yards.
And I didn't handle all of thosecorrectly early in my career.
And then as time went on, Ilearned to.
Handle them better.
And it's, it's experience, it'smaturity.
And in some cases it's listeningto a podcast like this one,
using it as your training.
You don't need to go hiresomeone and pay them to train
you.
If you're a leader in a seniorliving organization, have you
(30:12):
had those conversations withteam members?
Because often the press willjust show up or they'll call the
phone and get your concierge orwhoever it is.
Are those people trained?
Have those people been briefedeven just a little bit on how do
we handle this?
There's a great example fromseveral years ago where there
was a fire at a senior livingcommunity, and it was minor.
(30:35):
It was a situation where someonehad left a stove on or something
like that in an apartment putout very easily.
But of course, the news mediashowed up.
And what did they see when theyarrived?
No spokesperson from thecommunity on site at all.
Residents sitting outside in thecold with blankets on them.
Firefighters, the worst possibleoptics that, that you could
(30:56):
have.
And the only thing you needed tochange that was a crisis plan.
Because in that instance,someone would've been called,
someone would've showed up.
Someone would've known what tosay.
Someone would've known how todress.
Whole thing solved by justhaving a plan.
Erin (31:15):
Yeah.
So you think having a plan.
Or being aware, honestly, likewhen a crisis happens, that
forward facing is reallyimportant, and that's part of
preparing to be a Lettermaninstead of Clinton style damage
control.
Jeff (31:34):
Because you've gotta have that spokesperson out there, but
they've also gotta know what tosay.
Otherwise they Bill Clinton, youand forget about it.
But have a plan, talk throughthat stuff.
And there are people on yourteam who are not, they're not
the people that you want to talkto, the media, and they probably
don't want to talk to the media.
Filter that stuff through.
This is who these calls go to,whether it's the executive
director, whether it's themarketing director, whether it's
(31:56):
your.
PR contact.
we take calls for a lot of ourclients, they refer them.
Yeah, call Jeff Bell, he has ourstatement.
But the bottom line is, once youget to that point where people
are trained, you still have tofollow the Letterman rule.
You still have to betransparent.
You still have to say the rightthings.
And another thing that is somissed so often, it's okay to
(32:19):
tell a reporter you don't havean answer to their question
right now, and you'll get backto them.
Don't make up an answer on thefly, because that's when you
start to get into dishonesty orhalf truths.
Just say, I don't know, but I'mgonna get you an answer as soon
as I can.
And then follow up.
Make sure you do get them ananswer.
But so often we think, oh, wegotta answer every question.
No, you're in control.
Erin (32:41):
Yeah.
You're in control.
Not them.
Jeff (32:43):
it's empowering.
Erin (32:45):
It's, and it, you do think they're in control because they
have the microphone and theyhave the camera, but they're not
you give them the informationand that they figure out what to
do with, you wanna be smarterthan them.
And it's funny you say that,like if, as an administrator, as
an executive director, I alwaystold my team, if a surveyor
comes in and you don't know theanswer.
(33:07):
You say, I don't know theanswer.
I know where to find it.
Let me get back to you.
Jeff (33:13):
Yeah.
Erin (33:13):
And so it's the same thing for you as the executive
director or regional directorwhen a crisis comes, the same
rule applies to you.
Jeff (33:23):
I mean, that's half the battle right there.
If you're already trained thatway for handling a surveyor,
take that training and apply itto the media.
They don't have a soundbitewithout you, and so don't give
them a soundbite that's gonna doanything to damage your
reputation.
It's not deflecting if you trulydon't know.
Now, if you know the answer,then you need to be transparent
and you need to give the answer.
(33:44):
But if you truly don't know theanswer.
That's okay.
People understand that.
We've talked in my PR classabout different crises that were
in the public eye, and one ofthem was the recent, situation
with the plane crashes.
And United Airlines inparticular, the way that they
handled that a taped messagefrom the CEO and he's in his.
(34:05):
Three quarter vest.
It didn't come off well.
Came off very plastic.
It came off as okay, this isjust rehearsed damage control.
This isn't really anything.
We talked about in class how,how would you have handled that?
Who would you have had speakingon behalf?
Or if it was that person, how doyou change the optics?
There's so many things to thinkthrough, but sometimes it just
(34:27):
comes down to, let's watch this,or let's rehearse this.
And how does that actually look?
Put yourself in the place of aviewer or a resident or a family
member or whatever the case maybe.
And sometimes stuff happens inreal time.
You don't have that luxury.
But if you do have theopportunity, take two seconds to
think through your statement.
Does it really say what you wantit to say?
(34:49):
Does it really make you look theway you want to look and go from
there?
When in doubt, go back and watchDave and go from there.
Erin (34:57):
The optics are really important.
I mean, this is not political byany stretch, but you think about
George W.
Bush, after nine 11 and what theoptics looked like then.
And that was a moment we knowwith the megaphone and what he
was wearing.
And then you look at Zelenskyand the Ukrainian War, Russia
war, and everybody at thebeginning of it, everybody
(35:19):
thought he was so heroic and he,is, and.
politics aside, the optics wereand still is.
He doesn't wear suits.
he's in, war attire, so tospeak.
Yeah.
Rugged attire.
And that's his optics.
Those are his optics.
That's what he can control.
(35:39):
And it does send a nonverbalmessage.
Jeff (35:42):
It does.
Erin (35:43):
His optics were soundly accepted.
Jeff (35:47):
especially when you contrast them with Vladimir
Putin.
But Zelensky had the benefittoo, of people had seen Putin.
Putin's been around for years.
People already had theiropinions way before that war.
There were pictures of Putinriding bears shirtless and all
this stuff.
People have an opinion.
Zelensky had the opportunity tocreate.
His own image.
And you go back to George W.
(36:08):
Bush with nine 11, and I knowthat was, it was this impromptu
moment with the megaphone, butwhen he said, the people who
knocked these buildings downwill hear all of us soon, he
said what every American,regardless of political party
was feeling in that moment.
And that's why his approvalrating was up in the nineties
for a time now.
It didn't stay there.
(36:29):
And you could go all into theoptics of other stuff, but that
moment he said what, at leastmost people were feeling.
And it united the country in away that nobody had done for a
long time prior and no one hasdone for a long time since.
And sometimes, you get lucky inthose moments where it's
(36:49):
impromptu and then other timesyou have impromptu moments that
don't go over so well.
And, that's just the way it is.
And life goes on.
Erin (36:58):
Yeah.
He didn't go in a suit.
Like the optics were real.
and yes, and it was authentic.
I don't know.
I, we'll never know if thosewords were scripted, right?
But
Jeff (37:11):
Right.
Erin (37:11):
It was an authentic moment,
Jeff (37:13):
yep, it did.
Erin (37:16):
Okay, so the lesson here is transparency over perfection.
Jeff (37:21):
Transparency over perfection, and always listen to
instinct number two, and notinstinct number one.
Erin (37:28):
Instinct number one is not your choice.
Let the emotion die down after90 seconds, because that's
really important.
Timely action over reactivecontrol, right?
Jeff (37:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Are you actually sayingsomething?
Are you actually doingsomething?
Are you portraying that you'redoing something and are you
doing it in a way that makessense with the timeline of
whatever you're dealing with?
Erin (37:50):
Do not let problems fester.
Jeff (37:52):
Exactly.
Erin (37:53):
Do not let them fester.
It only gets bigger.
Empathy and ownership over blameand deflection.
Jeff (37:59):
Yeah.
Erin (37:59):
Every time.
Jeff (38:00):
Absolutely.
That makes sense.
No, no one likes someone whoblames others.
think about that.
Even in your own life, if youhave a disagreement with
someone, do you ever come awaywith someone who casts blame on
other people going, I reallyrespected them in that moment?
No, of course not.
But you do respect, you reallyrespect someone who takes
ownership beyond maybe even.
What they should take ownership.
(38:22):
the buck stops here mentality isreally important.
And yet, whether it's politics,whether it's sports, whether
it's whatever, how often do wesee someone who does the polar
opposite?
They start casting blame.
And it's cost people elections.
It's cost people, reputations.
It's cost people in the businessworld and it just takes that two
(38:42):
seconds of going, hold on, Ineed to swallow the humility
pill here.
And I need to swallow theempathy pill and then we can
start to talk.
Erin (38:50):
Yeah.
And it's gonna hurt.
Jeff (38:52):
It is,
Erin (38:53):
humility is a soft word, but it's not soft.
Jeff (38:57):
It's a real skill.
And we make no bones about that.
Of course it's gonna hurt.
it's kinda yeah, the medicine isgonna taste bad, but you need
it, Yes.
The vaccine is going to sting asI, tell my 2-year-old,
Erin (39:08):
Yeah.
I always say this, your teamdoesn't expect perfection.
They do expect leadership nomatter what you think.
They think they do wantleadership.
And your families do not expectzero issues.
They just expect the truth,
Jeff (39:23):
They don't, and there are so many examples of that.
there are leadership coursesbased on people who followed
that in different times, and noone.
No one's gonna take a leadershipcourse on Richard Dixon saying,
I am not a crook.
That's not a course you're gonnatake, but you will take one on
FDR saying, Hey, stuff's reallybad right now, but you know
(39:44):
what, we're all gonna be okayand I'm gonna get you through
it.
And was he perfect?
No.
Not by any stretch of theimagination.
Was every decision he made agood one.
No, but Americans were glued totheir radios during his
presidency because he was sayingthe right things at the right
time.
And his biggest job, frankly,wasn't to fix the economy.
It was to keep a complete allout panic.
(40:07):
From breaking out in the countryat the time, and he did that by
leading with empathy and leadingwith realism and not trying to
sugarcoat things.
Erin (40:15):
Yeah.
Okay, final question.
If a senior living leader is inthe middle of a PR or
operational crisis, what is thefirst thing that they should do?
Jeff (40:26):
If they don't, the first thing they should do is before
that crisis ever hits, the firstthing they should do is have an
organizational wide crisis planin place.
And that is who is responsiblefor what?
How do we handle it?
Do we have an agency?
Do we not have an agency?
Do we have an internal PRperson?
Do we not?
That's step one.
Once the crisis hits though itis following those things that
(40:50):
we've talked about.
Take a breath.
Nothing is as bad as it seems.
And just remember going in that,being transparent, being
empathetic.
At the end of the day, no matterhow bad it hurts, it's going to
save your reputation on theother side versus going with
those initial instincts of lie,defend, deflect.
(41:14):
None of that helps.
Erin (41:16):
Yeah, do not catastrophize the moment, right?
Say in the moment.
And the worst thing you can dois,
Jeff (41:24):
is go lie
Erin (41:24):
and do nothing.
Jeff (41:26):
Go into your shell and do nothing or lie.
there's the old adage that Iwould rather, be quiet, be
thought, a fool that opened mymouth and remove all doubt.
That doesn't always apply inthese situations, because you
don't wanna be thought a fool,you wanna open your mouth and.
Get rid of any bad perceptions.
You wanna open your mouth and besomeone that people look at and
(41:49):
go, oh wow, that's a courageousindividual.
That's someone who understandsthe gravity of the situation.
And the other thing too, get allthe facts before you put a
statement out before you talk tothe media.
Make sure you have as many factsas you can possibly have.
That's the biggest thing.
And just remember, no matter howbad it seems on the surface, you
are in a position to either makeit better.
(42:11):
Or make it worse and don't makeit worse.
Don't be Bill Clinton.
Erin (42:15):
Be David Letterman.
Jeff (42:16):
Be David Letterman.
Yes.
Bill Clinton did lots of goodthings and he has lots of
qualities.
But when it comes to handling acrisis, don't wipe your finger.
Erin (42:25):
No, it's a great class.
It's a great masterclass,really, of comparing the two
successful men who had.
Some life moral choices thatthey made the wrong choices.
You know what I mean?
So
Jeff (42:39):
one owned it,
Erin (42:40):
That's it.
Oh gosh.
This is a great conversation.
Jeff.
Thank you so much.
Had a blast.
Just being able to talk about itso freely and with an expert
like you was a lot of fun.
So make sure, where can peoplereach you if they wanna get more
information about Bell PR andmarketing?
Jeff (42:57):
Yeah, so we're at bell pr.org, just www.bellpr.org.
You can reach me at j Bell,J-B-E-L-L, at bell pr.org.
And like I said, we doeverything from crisis
management, crisis consultation,all the way down to your regular
pr.
Um, and I would say that'sanother thing.
Just one more thing to add.
Build your reputation up beforesomeone tries to tear it down.
(43:18):
And you do that by telling thepositive stories that exist
within your communities throughgood pr and make sure people
already have an opinion of you.
That's a good one before acrisis ever hits.
Erin (43:28):
Yeah, that's good.
Masterclass today, folks.
Masterclass today.
Thank you, Jeff for being herein your time.
And as always, for my listeners,aspire for more for you.
Humility hurts, but it is worthit.
Every time have a good day.
Welcome back to another episode of Aspire for More with
Aaron, where I have Mr.
Jeff Bell and we are gonna goover a question today, Clinton
or Letterman.
That is the question that we'regoing to be exploring.
You're going to have to stickaround to figure out why we're
talking about Clinton.
(00:21):
Letterman, but first, Mr.
Jeff Bell, who is the founder,CEO of Bell PR and marketing, a
crisis manager expert, a new dadof girls that is a, also a dad
of older boys.
And so his life has completelybeen changed upside down in the
(00:42):
last few years.
Kansas City Chiefs fan androyals.
Baseball fan.
Anything else that I can add?
Jeff?
Jeff (00:49):
no.
You hit it right on the head.
I would say, yeah, crisismanager former, radio
broadcaster.
I cut my teeth in.
News was a journalism major incollege, about 10, 12 years.
As a reporter News talk host,and then made my way into the PR
world, founded Bell, asinitially just a PR and crisis,
(01:09):
agency.
And we have since evolved andmorphed into a full service
digital marketing agency justbased on client need and demand.
And so we really do it all now.
Everything from PR and crisis towebsite builds to, digital
marketing, social mediamanagement, you name it, we do
it.
And, I'm the crazy guy whostarted a company at the
beginning of the pandemic and,somehow we're still standing and
(01:30):
doing well.
Erin (01:31):
yeah.
I first met you at Think Tank.
We've been to think Tank nowtwice together.
It's so much fun to just hearyour perspective and all your
insights and how you're notscared to go there, even from an
emotional answer.
To a tough guy, answer yourinsights and encourage has been
something that I've reallywatched from afar and
(01:54):
appreciated.
Jeff (01:55):
Think Tank is, as we say all the time, it's so unique
among, events in our industryand, it's that like-minded
like-hearted approach.
And, as I've learned from beinga boy dad to being now, a dad of
two young girls, it's you gottahave that, hard approach, but
sometimes you've also gotta bethe tough guy.
So there's like a fine linethere.
Erin (02:13):
I can only imagine.
I have a boy and a girl, but Ican only imagine being a boy dad
and then your life completelyturning upside down to being a
girl dad.
And you realize all the ruleshave changed.
Jeff (02:26):
Everything's changed.
Yeah.
It's like going from power toolsand football to Barbie dolls and
tea parties I'm loving everyminute of it.
I'm learning as I go.
Erin (02:35):
That's funny.
That's funny.
Okay, so we're gonna dive into,I think crisis management is an
excellent topic, especially forcommunity level leaders because
we don't always get to see whatit is at the very top.
Like how do you know thecorporate upper echelon people
(02:55):
handle all the different crisis?
And nor do we as a communityleader know all the crisis that
are going on within theportfolio of the company and all
the things they have.
To all the fires they have toput out.
And I know that I, in mycommunity, had an experience
where crisis management wassomething that, that I had to
walk through.
(03:16):
And when we talked about thispodcast episode and what to talk
about, you blew my mind when yousaid, do you wanna be Bill
Clinton or do you wanna be DavidLetterman?
And I was like, oh my gosh, thisis such a great topic.
So take it away from there froma crisis standpoint and what you
(03:37):
mean by that.
Jeff (03:38):
Yeah.
it really is for those of us, Iguess for any of our younger
listeners or viewers, whodidn't, maybe experience the
1990s, when those of us who didthink of Bill Clinton, no matter
what else he accomplished aspresident and he accomplished a
lot and did some really goodthings.
We think about the MonicaLewinsky scandal.
And for those of us who thinkabout David Letterman, we don't
(03:58):
think about his scandal.
And you might even have toscratch your head for a second
and say, wait a minute, DavidLetterman had a scandal.
And the reason is crisismanagement and approach to
crisis management, and it'samazing.
The difference of how those tworeputations turned out.
And if Bill Clinton had listenedto this podcast before the,
Lewinsky scandal, he might'vecome out smelling, much
(04:21):
differently than he did, on theother side.
So I can expand on what I, whatI mean by that.
so the Clinton Lewinsky scandal.
Most people know about it,whether you live through it,
whether you've read about it.
Bill Clinton was having anaffair when he was president of
the United States, married man,having an affair with a White
House intern.
Monica Lewinsky eventually gotfound out, mostly because of,
(04:45):
some untruths that he toldduring a deposition.
Came back to bite him.
But when it really got into thepublic eye.
He went into deny, deny mode.
Wagged his finger at the camera.
I did not have so on and soforth.
Eventually the pressure mountedand he had no choice but to come
clean.
(05:05):
I did indeed do this.
I'm sorry it was wrong, so onand so forth.
But by that point, the damagewas done.
Flip side, David Letterman.
Had multiple affairs whileworking at CBS with people who
worked for him with staffers.
What happened was one of those,staffers told somebody else who
(05:26):
thought it would be a great ideato try to blackmail Dave.
Dave handled the situationcompletely differently before it
even got out.
It was gonna get out, but beforeit even got out that he was
having an affair, he opens hisshow live monologue and says,
this is what's been happening.
People thought it was a joke.
At first, people were laughinglike, wait.
(05:48):
Is he serious?
He just flat out owned it andwhen this is what's happening,
police are helping me with thisblack male situation.
My wife and I are going to havea lot of tough conversations,
and we're gonna have to work ourway through this.
We would appreciate privacy.
But here it is.
I have been a bad boy, andthat's it.
(06:09):
So again, the difference is noone thinks about when I say name
five things about DavidLetterman, no one mentions that.
No one even remembers it becausehe owned it and it went away.
So what's the lesson for SeniorLiving Crisis folks?
Don't be a Bill Clinton.
I don't care what the scandalis.
I don't care how bad you thinkyou're going to look, you will
(06:30):
look worse if you take theClinton approach versus the
Letterman approach.
People love transparency.
Erin (06:38):
They really do.
So not only did Clinton, denyit, like you said, he had his
waving his finger in the cameramoment, which is so like.
how dare you like real egostyle.
I'm the president of the UnitedStates.
And that righteous inindignation just fired up
(06:58):
people.
And of course you give people anemotional reaction, it's going
to go and if people think you'relying, they're going to, there
are people that are gonna go tothe ends of the earth to prove
you wrongly.
And so you absolutely just gavethem ammunition.
Jeff (07:14):
Absolutely.
And it led to an impeachmentwhich cost the taxpayers money.
Yes.
Possibly you could make theargument Al Gore losing an
election a few years later,because he couldn't shake off
the dust, so to speak, of theimpeachment scandal.
All of it could have gone awaywith that transparency.
Most of us in senior living arenot gonna have a scandal on the
(07:35):
scale of the president of theUnited States having an affair
and lying about it.
But whatever it is, whether it'sbig or small, we're gonna face a
crisis at some point.
And the reputation of ourorganization, the reputation,
frankly, of our residence, is onthe line.
The reputation of ourselvespersonally is on the line.
And if you make a mistake, ownit, or even if you didn't do
(07:59):
anything wrong, but some thingshappened that.
Even with the best protocols inplace, fell through the cracks,
own that sometimes ourreputation, or not our
reputation, but sometimes ourinstinct can be like the kid who
got caught with his hand in thecookie jar to go, I wasn't in
the cookie jar, or like theshaggy, it wasn't me.
kind of thing.
And it doesn't do any good.
(08:20):
We get caught and we end uplooking like gaslighting
horrible people.
I teach a college class on PR aswell, and I tell my students,
let's even take out the moralityof just the right thing to do,
is be honest from just a purebusiness standpoint.
Being dishonest hurts you.
(08:41):
Every time it will cost youmoney.
It will cost you trust, it willcost you in senior living
residents.
It will cost you maybe evenbuildings.
It can spiral out of control sofast and it's so hard to
recover.
So when mistakes happen, Ialways tell our clients, okay,
if you're gonna work with us forcrisis, we're gonna be David
Letterman, and I won't bend onthat.
Erin (09:03):
yeah.
Denial, resistance, damage tolong-term trust, all of that.
It's hard to recover from,you're gonna have to go on a
long mea culpa campaign andpeople are going to always look
at you from an angle of, can Ieven trust what you're saying?
Even to the smallest entity.
Like it, it's, it is crazy.
(09:26):
the last.
Like you cannot think ofClinton, you cannot look at the
Clintons without thinking aboutthat scandal.
And then in an excellentcomparison, you look at David
Letterman and even with the showthat he's doing now on Netflix,
you look at him as a wise man.
(09:47):
At one time he was a dirty man,and yet we look at him like a
wise man because he realizedthat he was making a mistake.
He took accountability, he wastransparent about it.
He was uncomfortable.
You've got to know that momentwas.
(10:10):
So uncomfortable and so painful,but because he took
accountability, it took thepower away from anyone that
wanted to destroy him.
Jeff (10:21):
It did.
It did.
And then on the flip side, ifyou look at the damage down the
road for the Clintons, Imentioned Al Gore.
When Hillary Clinton ran againstDonald Trump in 2016, she tried
to paint him.
As what he was, frankly, anadulterer, a locker room,
braggadocio, whatever you wantto call it.
(10:41):
It fell on deaf ears becausepeople looked at her and went,
your husband's the same thing.
No one took it seriously.
And so a political opportunityfell by the wayside.
And we don't ever think aboutthat when we're in the midst of
a lie that 20, 30 years later,this is still gonna come up.
Yeah.
and it's, we have to treat ourrelationship with the truth.
(11:04):
The same way that we treat it inor should treat it in a
marriage, in a friendship, in arelationship with our kids,
whatever it is, if I start lyingto my daughters, it's not too
long before they don't trust dadanymore.
And when dad comes with goodadvice, maybe they don't take it
because why would I trust himnow?
You lie and, one lie turns intoanother lie and so on and so
(11:25):
forth.
it's very common sense stuff.
But I'm amazed at how often theinstinct of someone who reaches
out to us for crisis management,their instinct is to do exactly
that.
We've gotta cover this up.
And I always say, no.
If you want someone to help youcover something up, we're not
the agency for you.
We don't do that.
Erin (11:41):
proactive communication.
In the moment you can take thisdown to a very micro level as
somebody inside senior living asa leader, inside senior living
as a director of nursing or anexecutive director, when
something happens and you havethe crossroads of saying, if I
don't do anything about this, ifI don't tell anybody about this,
(12:04):
then no one has to know.
Or you can just say, I'm justgoing to make the decision to be
proactive, to communicate aboutthis, to learn from it, to take
accountability, to face whateverneeds to be done.
I'm going to grow trust, I'mgoing to grow credibility, and
I'm gonna learn from theexperience.
(12:25):
Like we think that crisis arethese big moments and they are,
but we can avoid these crisis,big crisis.
If we just understand the powerof proactive communication, and
it really is as simple as makingthe choice of saying this
happened.
Here's what we've done about it,and here's what we're going to
(12:47):
do about it to prevent it fromhappening in the future.
Again, that is crisismanagement.
On a very micro level,
Jeff (12:55):
it absolutely is.
And there are different forms ofcrisis too, now that we live in
this digital world, a crisis canbe an online review because all
of the data says people takeonline reviews as the gospel
truth.
They trust them as much as theydo word of mouth.
So it doesn't matter whetherwhat the person's saying in the
review is true or not.
What matters is someone's gonnathink that it is.
(13:17):
And so how do you handle that?
The other thing the data tellsus is that almost anybody who
sees a response from an ownerthat takes some sort of
responsibility for a negativereview, no longer views the
review as negative, but so oftenresponses go, nothing.
It's silence and people seesilence and they go, oh, that
must be true.
(13:37):
They didn't even respond.
Or they responded in a way thatsounds very plastic and thank
you for your response.
Please contact us at it doesn'tdo any good.
Own it.
Acknowledge we understand howyou're feeling.
We understand that thissituation was upsetting.
Here are some things toconsider.
Whatever it is.
(13:58):
Own it.
So often we're so quick and wedo this personally too.
someone calls us out onsomething and we just dive into
defense mode.
And if we would just take thosetwo seconds to go, hold on.
They're actually right aboutthis.
this happens with my wife.
Just, you go call me out onsomething in a moment and I
start to go, you're just, andI'm like, wait a minute.
Okay.
Ego, go away.
(14:19):
She's right.
I don't put my socks where theygo or, whatever it is.
And so let's just, take a stepback and realize that's okay.
We're human.
And people understand that andthey accept that.
And, one of the things I alwaystell people is the most
important decision you make is.
How you respond to your secondinstinct in a situation.
(14:41):
What I mean by that is our firstinstinct is always defense mode
or always to put a shell aroundourselves.
But then if we stop and we reactdifferently to that first
instinct, and we handle asituation rationally, honestly
and correctly, we end up comingout on the good side most of the
time.
Erin (15:01):
Yeah, that's true.
I've been really studying likeemotions.
I think that senior living morethan a real estate company or
more than a healthcareprofession.
I say that, that senior livingis like an emotional tornado of.
Everything going on.
(15:21):
And when we study emotions, wecan actually be, become more
self-aware and better leadersbecause we realize that we can
control our emotions andemotions go away in 90 seconds
if you sit there and you letthem.
And ego, ego is another part ofemotions that we have to be
aware of.
And so you're right, like thatinitial pain of being.
(15:46):
Hot or being called out, likeall you wanna do is defend
yourself.
And I am a naturally defensiveperson, and have certainly done
that in my career a lot.
And I realize now, and I wasactually really good at this,
inside the community was outsidethe community that I struggle
with it more.
But like you have to allowpeople to advocate for
(16:08):
themselves.
And then you have to realizethey've shown you how they're
gonna react when situations comeup.
So plan for it.
It's, if they're gonna react acertain way because the soup is
cold, they're certainly gonnareact a certain way when
something of greater importanceis happening.
So allow the emotion to rise upand yes, go for the second
(16:33):
instinct.
Don't defend yourself, becausewhen you defend yourself, you
carry on this legacy with thatfamily and with anybody else
who's watching.
they're not gonna know how totalk to you.
They're gonna feel like it's awaste of time, all these things,
because you're just going todefend yourself and you're, that
is a battle you will never win.
(16:55):
And when Brene Brown said this.
We, at some point figure outthat the armor that we've been
carrying no longer serves us.
You let it down and in a crisis,the armor does not serve you.
Jeff (17:10):
It doesn't serve you at all.
And you're so right about itdoesn't, emotions in senior
living too.
if I could think of the twoorganizations where your crisis.
It reaches a fever pitch justbecause of the nature of what
you do.
I would say senior living anddaycares.
Yeah, because you are takingcare of precious people.
Someone's extremely preciouschild.
(17:32):
They're precious grandparent.
They're precious parent.
And yeah, there are times whenthey're gonna be upset.
And to your point, if you startgoing into defense mode, and
maybe your first instinct isright on some level, but think
about perception.
They want to be heard.
They want to feel like they'reheard and they wanna see you
(17:52):
attempting to solve a problem.
And you can't do that if you'respending so much time defending
yourself.
Now, there are gonna besituations where yes, absolutely
you have a team member that youhave to defend.
You have an organizational.
Reputation to defend.
And that's why agencies likeours are helpful because we can
help you navigate that.
But never, leave a conversationwhere a family member or a
(18:16):
resident feels like they wereunheard and that you were
uncaring.
And it's so easy to do itwithout even meaning to, because
most of us, at the end of theday, do care.
We do want them to be heard, butsometimes we get so caught up in
our own ego without evenrealizing it, that we end up,
hurting our reputation andfurthering the damage instead of
repairing it.
Erin (18:37):
Yeah.
It's not about if I didn't dothe act, so we'll talk about
there was a huge crisis momentinside of my community.
I don't really give it muchairtime because it was painful
for the family, but.
I was not the one who made thechoice.
I was not the one who did theaction.
(18:58):
I was the one that had to be arepresentative to the families,
to potential news organizations,and I could not be defensive.
I didn't need to be defensivebecause I didn't do the action,
but I had to be very, veryhumble.
I had to take accountability andI had to say, we're still the
(19:21):
same community.
one person made a choice.
It's not exactly how it'sportrayed in the media, but it
was a choice that wasinappropriate and painstakingly,
hurtful to our community andthat family.
We're still the same,
Jeff (19:38):
And that's so important and there are so many lessons,
and I can say this because Iused to be a reporter, so I
really do have a very fair, Ithink in insider's viewpoint of
the media, both the faults andthe positives, there are great
reporters out there who reallyare just looking for the truth
and they view themselves as thatwatchdog for the public.
There are other reporters whoare more trained in, maybe
(19:59):
through no fault of their ownGotcha type journalism.
And that's where we have to keepour composure.
Because like you said, thatsituation may not have been
portrayed in the media the wayyou wanted it to be portrayed.
But sometimes we stop there onthe surface level, we go, oh my
gosh, this is terrible.
This is a Christ.
Look what they wrote.
But we forget that.
hold on.
What they wrote is not nearly asimportant as how we responded to
(20:21):
what they wrote.
Yes.
Or how we responded to thatquestion.
In Public, I saw an interviewthe other day, that just popped
up on social media with ElvisPresley in the 1970s, and they
asked him his opinion of wardemonstrators.
Remember, this was the height ofthe Vietnam War.
The country was very divided,and he basically said to the
reporter, I'm an entertainer.
(20:41):
I keep that stuff private, it'snot really my place.
then she pressed him further.
do you believe all entertainersshould keep it private?
And he said, I'm not gonna gothere.
That I don't feel that it doesany good for me.
Why would anyone listen to me?
A singer on an issue asimportant as that?
And kept pressing.
He never lost his cool.
And she ended up sounding silly.
(21:02):
40, 50 years later when you'rewatching that interview because
he didn't lose his cool and giveinto the pressure.
And it's so easy to do andthat's why we offer media
training because not everyone'sready for that.
Not everyone has even faced areporter in their lives before.
And so if you don't have alittle bit of training and a
little bit of preparation, yeah,you're probably gonna blow it
your first time,
Erin (21:23):
Yeah.
You give into the pressurebecause you think, oh my God,
there's gonna be millions ofpeople.
Watching you, but what'sinteresting about that Elvis is
that he knew the difference.
The difference is when youunderstand what the goal is, you
can stay committed to the actionand the reason.
And if you don't understand,then you can get caught up in
(21:45):
the emotional tornado and justreact and respond.
Jeff (21:49):
Yeah.
And sometimes it goes back tothe instinct conversation where
what's my first instinct versuswhat's my rational approach to
my first instinct?
And it's so important toremember that you can only
control what you can control.
You mentioned I'm a Chiefs andRoyals fan.
I always go back to, PatrickMahomes and the way that he
(22:10):
handles things in the scrutinyin the media, the scrutiny from
fans, the scrutiny from fansfrom other teams.
And all he does is control whathe can control.
He doesn't bad mouth otherpeople.
He doesn't say things that aresuper controversial.
He goes out and lets hisplaying, do the talking and when
he fails, like losing the SuperBowl very recently.
(22:31):
He takes responsibility and putsit all right here.
He doesn't point fingers, hedoesn't cast blame, he doesn't
throw teammates under the bus.
I remember reading that when hefirst got to Kansas City as a
first round draft pick, theywere amazed that he was calling
the people at the front desk inthe regular lobby of the home
offices.
Sir and ma'am.
(22:51):
so humble and, you could do amasterclass on just PR from
Patrick Mahomes, compared toother athletes who maybe haven't
learned those lessons so well.
Erin (23:01):
Yeah.
When you talk about controllingwhat you can control, and I
often refer to it taking yourpower back, it is literally.
Is humility, proactivecommunication, and listening.
Because if you were pointingfingers, you've just given
media, social media, so muchfodder to dive into.
(23:24):
But when you swallow your prideand you say, it doesn't matter.
Nothing else matters.
It was my choice, it was mydecisions, it was my lack of
preparation or whatever it is.
You have taken the air out.
Of anything moving forward.
And that is power.
that is power.
Jeff (23:44):
That's power.
And when do you have the courageto use that power?
Because I'm gonna bet somebodyat CBS did not like the idea of
David Letterman walking out andannouncing that on a monologue.
I'm gonna bet he got pushback.
And I don't know whether he didit because he was advised by
somebody or whether he did it.
My gut tells me he did itbecause he's just.
(24:05):
That wise of a person and herealized and understood that I
can either destroy myself hereor I can try to handle this with
humility and obviously he madethe right choice, but I
guarantee you the network execs.
Whether they knew he was gonnado that or when he did, it went,
(24:26):
oh, panic mode.
He's destroying his reputationlive on the air.
he wasn't.
He was doing the exact opposite.
He was repairing it in realtime.
It was like watching a surgeryin real time.
Erin (24:37):
So when I talk about humility a lot, I had to rebuild
myself after, I like to call itlike a Mariah Carey, like on
TRL, where she completely hadthis meltdown.
I am like, yeah, I feel like Idid that.
But anyways, humility hurts.
It's so easy to say, be humble.
Take the humility route andhumility hurts.
(25:01):
Like being David Letterman, wetalk about it, okay?
And standing there, and theneven if you're in a community
and talking to a family memberabout where you may have failed
at that caused an outcome thatwas uncomfortable or could have
hurt a resident.
When we say humility, we meanthe gut punch.
(25:26):
Yep.
The heart brokenness, the, oh myGod, I have to talk about this
in real time as it hurtsconversations and it knocks the
wind out of you and you feellike there's nothing that you
can do and it is one of thehardest times of your life that
(25:48):
is humility.
Yep.
that's humility.
It's not just being able to say,oh, this is what happened.
It is having to say the wordswhile you're hurting.
Jeff (25:58):
Yep.
Erin (25:59):
And that is far more painful than lying about it in
the moment.
But as you can see through ourtwo different scenarios, the
pain is short-lived.
Versus carrying on forever.
Jeff (26:14):
Yep.
Do you feel the gut punch in themoment?
Do you have the courage to takethe gut punch in the moment?
Yes.
Or are you gonna take that easyway out and realize, I remember
when I was a kid, that feelingof having to remember lies to my
parents.
Yes.
and they were silly things likeI rode my bike further than I
was supposed to, or I went tosomeone's house when I was
(26:34):
supposed to be at.
Football camp or whatever thecase may be, and then all of a
sudden, okay, hold on.
I told this lie, and then Igotta remember this, and now
I've gotta remember this lie.
And it's oh my gosh.
The truth is so much easier.
Even if it hurts in the moment,it's so much easier.
And to your point from earlierin our conversation, people
still trust you because we allinstinctively know as human
(26:57):
beings that we can make amistake.
So if I make a mistake and Ihurt you.
But I own it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Jeff's human, so am I.
But look at the integrity thathe showed in owning it versus,
oh look, he lied to me again andhe lied to me again, and now
he's still lying to me.
And trust is broken and it'svery difficult.
It's not impossible to repair,but I'd rather repair a crisis
(27:19):
in real time that I would repairthe fallout from.
Crisis is down the road.
We had a client several yearsago during a hurricane who made
the choice before they evercalled us to shut down their
Facebook page because, peopleare saying negative things that,
no.
You shut down that Facebook pageand now it looks like everything
that they've been saying istrue.
And you went into hiding.
(27:39):
Yeah.
Okay.
This is a hurricane.
You didn't create the hurricane.
You have your protocols inplace.
You know you're doing the rightthings.
Why are you hiding?
Don't hide.
Respond, be honest, be upfront.
If you made mistakes, own them.
But so often we want to go intoshells like we're a turtle and
just hide and hope that when wecome back out, things will be
better.
(27:59):
And they never are.
Erin (28:01):
No, they aren't.
I follow this page on Facebook.
It's a community page.
I'm trying to be very likenon-descriptive here and.
Some people were making somecomments about a part of their
aesthetic and the response thatthe community gave, it was so
(28:24):
bad, it was defensive.
It was blaming, and the commentsafter the initial com, it just
spiraled.
Jeff (28:33):
Yeah.
Erin (28:34):
And just admit We are, we've got this under control,
we're, this is what we're doing.
But instead it was very much thewall is coming up.
Jeff (28:44):
Yep.
Erin (28:44):
And now people are chiming in.
And this is again, a very microlevel of crisis PR management in
a very small area of a small,Town and I'm just like, That was
an initial, that was thatemotion that you just, you have
to let pass before you respond,
Jeff (29:06):
and it takes maturity to do it.
And we always see those peoplewho post the gif of Michael
Jackson eating popcorn.
And those popcorn watchers areout there.
And actually they're bigger thanthe commenters.
Yes.
And those popcorn watchers arewatching and boy, they're
judging like you would notbelieve they are the judge
Judys.
On the internet and they'rewatching to see how do you
(29:27):
react, how do you handle this?
And you don't want peopleposting the popcorn Jif because
that means that uhoh somethinghas escalated into a place that
you don't want it to be.
And again, we've all been there,we've all made that mistake.
I've made that mistake in mycareer criticism when I was a
reporter.
you talk about.
you have a news talk program.
you are going to get inundatedwith criticisms and
(29:50):
sensitivities related topolitics and the whole nine
yards.
And I didn't handle all of thosecorrectly early in my career.
And then as time went on, Ilearned to.
Handle them better.
And it's, it's experience, it'smaturity.
And in some cases it's listeningto a podcast like this one,
using it as your training.
You don't need to go hiresomeone and pay them to train
you.
If you're a leader in a seniorliving organization, have you
(30:12):
had those conversations withteam members?
Because often the press willjust show up or they'll call the
phone and get your concierge orwhoever it is.
Are those people trained?
Have those people been briefedeven just a little bit on how do
we handle this?
There's a great example fromseveral years ago where there
was a fire at a senior livingcommunity, and it was minor.
(30:35):
It was a situation where someonehad left a stove on or something
like that in an apartment putout very easily.
But of course, the news mediashowed up.
And what did they see when theyarrived?
No spokesperson from thecommunity on site at all.
Residents sitting outside in thecold with blankets on them.
Firefighters, the worst possibleoptics that, that you could
(30:56):
have.
And the only thing you needed tochange that was a crisis plan.
Because in that instance,someone would've been called,
someone would've showed up.
Someone would've known what tosay.
Someone would've known how todress.
Whole thing solved by justhaving a plan.
Erin (31:15):
Yeah.
So you think having a plan.
Or being aware, honestly, likewhen a crisis happens, that
forward facing is reallyimportant, and that's part of
preparing to be a Lettermaninstead of Clinton style damage
control.
Jeff (31:34):
Because you've gotta have that spokesperson out there, but
they've also gotta know what tosay.
Otherwise they Bill Clinton, youand forget about it.
But have a plan, talk throughthat stuff.
And there are people on yourteam who are not, they're not
the people that you want to talkto, the media, and they probably
don't want to talk to the media.
Filter that stuff through.
This is who these calls go to,whether it's the executive
director, whether it's themarketing director, whether it's
(31:56):
your.
PR contact.
we take calls for a lot of ourclients, they refer them.
Yeah, call Jeff Bell, he has ourstatement.
But the bottom line is, once youget to that point where people
are trained, you still have tofollow the Letterman rule.
You still have to betransparent.
You still have to say the rightthings.
And another thing that is somissed so often, it's okay to
(32:19):
tell a reporter you don't havean answer to their question
right now, and you'll get backto them.
Don't make up an answer on thefly, because that's when you
start to get into dishonesty orhalf truths.
Just say, I don't know, but I'mgonna get you an answer as soon
as I can.
And then follow up.
Make sure you do get them ananswer.
But so often we think, oh, wegotta answer every question.
No, you're in control.
Erin (32:41):
Yeah.
You're in control.
Not them.
Jeff (32:43):
it's empowering.
Erin (32:45):
It's, and it, you do think they're in control because they
have the microphone and theyhave the camera, but they're not
you give them the informationand that they figure out what to
do with, you wanna be smarterthan them.
And it's funny you say that,like if, as an administrator, as
an executive director, I alwaystold my team, if a surveyor
comes in and you don't know theanswer.
(33:07):
You say, I don't know theanswer.
I know where to find it.
Let me get back to you.
Jeff (33:13):
Yeah.
Erin (33:13):
And so it's the same thing for you as the executive
director or regional directorwhen a crisis comes, the same
rule applies to you.
Jeff (33:23):
I mean, that's half the battle right there.
If you're already trained thatway for handling a surveyor,
take that training and apply itto the media.
They don't have a soundbitewithout you, and so don't give
them a soundbite that's gonna doanything to damage your
reputation.
It's not deflecting if you trulydon't know.
Now, if you know the answer,then you need to be transparent
and you need to give the answer.
(33:44):
But if you truly don't know theanswer.
That's okay.
People understand that.
We've talked in my PR classabout different crises that were
in the public eye, and one ofthem was the recent, situation
with the plane crashes.
And United Airlines inparticular, the way that they
handled that a taped messagefrom the CEO and he's in his.
(34:05):
Three quarter vest.
It didn't come off well.
Came off very plastic.
It came off as okay, this isjust rehearsed damage control.
This isn't really anything.
We talked about in class how,how would you have handled that?
Who would you have had speakingon behalf?
Or if it was that person, how doyou change the optics?
There's so many things to thinkthrough, but sometimes it just
(34:27):
comes down to, let's watch this,or let's rehearse this.
And how does that actually look?
Put yourself in the place of aviewer or a resident or a family
member or whatever the case maybe.
And sometimes stuff happens inreal time.
You don't have that luxury.
But if you do have theopportunity, take two seconds to
think through your statement.
Does it really say what you wantit to say?
(34:49):
Does it really make you look theway you want to look and go from
there?
When in doubt, go back and watchDave and go from there.
Erin (34:57):
The optics are really important.
I mean, this is not political byany stretch, but you think about
George W.
Bush, after nine 11 and what theoptics looked like then.
And that was a moment we knowwith the megaphone and what he
was wearing.
And then you look at Zelenskyand the Ukrainian War, Russia
war, and everybody at thebeginning of it, everybody
(35:19):
thought he was so heroic and he,is, and.
politics aside, the optics wereand still is.
He doesn't wear suits.
he's in, war attire, so tospeak.
Yeah.
Rugged attire.
And that's his optics.
Those are his optics.
That's what he can control.
(35:39):
And it does send a nonverbalmessage.
Jeff (35:42):
It does.
Erin (35:43):
His optics were soundly accepted.
Jeff (35:47):
especially when you contrast them with Vladimir
Putin.
But Zelensky had the benefittoo, of people had seen Putin.
Putin's been around for years.
People already had theiropinions way before that war.
There were pictures of Putinriding bears shirtless and all
this stuff.
People have an opinion.
Zelensky had the opportunity tocreate.
His own image.
And you go back to George W.
(36:08):
Bush with nine 11, and I knowthat was, it was this impromptu
moment with the megaphone, butwhen he said, the people who
knocked these buildings downwill hear all of us soon, he
said what every American,regardless of political party
was feeling in that moment.
And that's why his approvalrating was up in the nineties
for a time now.
It didn't stay there.
(36:29):
And you could go all into theoptics of other stuff, but that
moment he said what, at leastmost people were feeling.
And it united the country in away that nobody had done for a
long time prior and no one hasdone for a long time since.
And sometimes, you get lucky inthose moments where it's
(36:49):
impromptu and then other timesyou have impromptu moments that
don't go over so well.
And, that's just the way it is.
And life goes on.
Erin (36:58):
Yeah.
He didn't go in a suit.
Like the optics were real.
and yes, and it was authentic.
I don't know.
I, we'll never know if thosewords were scripted, right?
But
Jeff (37:11):
Right.
Erin (37:11):
It was an authentic moment,
Jeff (37:13):
yep, it did.
Erin (37:16):
Okay, so the lesson here is transparency over perfection.
Jeff (37:21):
Transparency over perfection, and always listen to
instinct number two, and notinstinct number one.
Erin (37:28):
Instinct number one is not your choice.
Let the emotion die down after90 seconds, because that's
really important.
Timely action over reactivecontrol, right?
Jeff (37:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Are you actually sayingsomething?
Are you actually doingsomething?
Are you portraying that you'redoing something and are you
doing it in a way that makessense with the timeline of
whatever you're dealing with?
Erin (37:50):
Do not let problems fester.
Jeff (37:52):
Exactly.
Erin (37:53):
Do not let them fester.
It only gets bigger.
Empathy and ownership over blameand deflection.
Jeff (37:59):
Yeah.
Erin (37:59):
Every time.
Jeff (38:00):
Absolutely.
That makes sense.
No, no one likes someone whoblames others.
think about that.
Even in your own life, if youhave a disagreement with
someone, do you ever come awaywith someone who casts blame on
other people going, I reallyrespected them in that moment?
No, of course not.
But you do respect, you reallyrespect someone who takes
ownership beyond maybe even.
What they should take ownership.
(38:22):
the buck stops here mentality isreally important.
And yet, whether it's politics,whether it's sports, whether
it's whatever, how often do wesee someone who does the polar
opposite?
They start casting blame.
And it's cost people elections.
It's cost people, reputations.
It's cost people in the businessworld and it just takes that two
(38:42):
seconds of going, hold on, Ineed to swallow the humility
pill here.
And I need to swallow theempathy pill and then we can
start to talk.
Erin (38:50):
Yeah.
And it's gonna hurt.
Jeff (38:52):
It is,
Erin (38:53):
humility is a soft word, but it's not soft.
Jeff (38:57):
It's a real skill.
And we make no bones about that.
Of course it's gonna hurt.
it's kinda yeah, the medicine isgonna taste bad, but you need
it, Yes.
The vaccine is going to sting asI, tell my 2-year-old,
Erin (39:08):
Yeah.
I always say this, your teamdoesn't expect perfection.
They do expect leadership nomatter what you think.
They think they do wantleadership.
And your families do not expectzero issues.
They just expect the truth,
Jeff (39:23):
They don't, and there are so many examples of that.
there are leadership coursesbased on people who followed
that in different times, and noone.
No one's gonna take a leadershipcourse on Richard Dixon saying,
I am not a crook.
That's not a course you're gonnatake, but you will take one on
FDR saying, Hey, stuff's reallybad right now, but you know
(39:44):
what, we're all gonna be okayand I'm gonna get you through
it.
And was he perfect?
No.
Not by any stretch of theimagination.
Was every decision he made agood one.
No, but Americans were glued totheir radios during his
presidency because he was sayingthe right things at the right
time.
And his biggest job, frankly,wasn't to fix the economy.
It was to keep a complete allout panic.
(40:07):
From breaking out in the countryat the time, and he did that by
leading with empathy and leadingwith realism and not trying to
sugarcoat things.
Erin (40:15):
Yeah.
Okay, final question.
If a senior living leader is inthe middle of a PR or
operational crisis, what is thefirst thing that they should do?
Jeff (40:26):
If they don't, the first thing they should do is before
that crisis ever hits, the firstthing they should do is have an
organizational wide crisis planin place.
And that is who is responsiblefor what?
How do we handle it?
Do we have an agency?
Do we not have an agency?
Do we have an internal PRperson?
Do we not?
That's step one.
Once the crisis hits though itis following those things that
(40:50):
we've talked about.
Take a breath.
Nothing is as bad as it seems.
And just remember going in that,being transparent, being
empathetic.
At the end of the day, no matterhow bad it hurts, it's going to
save your reputation on theother side versus going with
those initial instincts of lie,defend, deflect.
(41:14):
None of that helps.
Erin (41:16):
Yeah, do not catastrophize the moment, right?
Say in the moment.
And the worst thing you can dois,
Jeff (41:24):
is go lie
Erin (41:24):
and do nothing.
Jeff (41:26):
Go into your shell and do nothing or lie.
there's the old adage that Iwould rather, be quiet, be
thought, a fool that opened mymouth and remove all doubt.
That doesn't always apply inthese situations, because you
don't wanna be thought a fool,you wanna open your mouth and.
Get rid of any bad perceptions.
You wanna open your mouth and besomeone that people look at and
(41:49):
go, oh wow, that's a courageousindividual.
That's someone who understandsthe gravity of the situation.
And the other thing too, get allthe facts before you put a
statement out before you talk tothe media.
Make sure you have as many factsas you can possibly have.
That's the biggest thing.
And just remember, no matter howbad it seems on the surface, you
are in a position to either makeit better.
(42:11):
Or make it worse and don't makeit worse.
Don't be Bill Clinton.
Erin (42:15):
Be David Letterman.
Jeff (42:16):
Be David Letterman.
Yes.
Bill Clinton did lots of goodthings and he has lots of
qualities.
But when it comes to handling acrisis, don't wipe your finger.
Erin (42:25):
No, it's a great class.
It's a great masterclass,really, of comparing the two
successful men who had.
Some life moral choices thatthey made the wrong choices.
You know what I mean?
So
Jeff (42:39):
one owned it,
Erin (42:40):
That's it.
Oh gosh.
This is a great conversation.
Jeff.
Thank you so much.
Had a blast.
Just being able to talk about itso freely and with an expert
like you was a lot of fun.
So make sure, where can peoplereach you if they wanna get more
information about Bell PR andmarketing?
Jeff (42:57):
Yeah, so we're at bell pr.org, just www.bellpr.org.
You can reach me at j Bell,J-B-E-L-L, at bell pr.org.
And like I said, we doeverything from crisis
management, crisis consultation,all the way down to your regular
pr.
Um, and I would say that'sanother thing.
Just one more thing to add.
Build your reputation up beforesomeone tries to tear it down.
(43:18):
And you do that by telling thepositive stories that exist
within your communities throughgood pr and make sure people
already have an opinion of you.
That's a good one before acrisis ever hits.
Erin (43:28):
Yeah, that's good.
Masterclass today, folks.
Masterclass today.
Thank you, Jeff for being herein your time.
And as always, for my listeners,aspire for more for you.
Humility hurts, but it is worthit.
Every time have a good day.
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