March 20, 2025 • 39 mins
Send me your feedback on this episode!
In this episode, we explore the essential elements of leadership in senior living, focusing on service and empathy.
Erin sits down with Jenna La Charity, Director of Sales and Marketing at Levante Senior Living and a professor at Algonquin College, to discuss ways to balance business goals with heart-centered leadership.
Jenna shares her journey from social work to senior living, emphasizing the importance of personal connections, resilience, and problem-solving in sales and operations.
They discuss the significance of understanding cultural perspectives, the emotional aspects of sales, and the power of relationships in creating thriving communities.
Jenna also highlights the educational initiatives preparing future leaders in senior living, reinforcing hope and potential in the next generation.
This conversation is a valuable resource for new and seasoned sales directors alike, offering mindset shifts and practical strategies for success.
00:00 Introduction to Heart-Centered Leadership
00:37 Meet Jenna La Charity
02:08 Jenna's Journey from Social Work to Senior Living
05:53 The Importance of Relationships in Senior Living
07:25 Training the Next Generation of Leaders
18:02 Cultural Perspectives and Aging
20:54 Navigating Sales Relationships
21:09 Overcoming Money Talk Challenges
21:54 Building Trust Through Questions
24:11 The Art of Small Closes
25:11 Adapting Sales Styles
26:13 Human-Centered Sales Approach
26:57 Competitive Analysis and Trust
29:34 Real-Life Learning in Sales
31:02 Mindset, Boundaries, and Energy
34:03 Achieve, Connect, and Thrive
36:33 The Importance of Teamwork
37:56 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Connect with me on LinkedIn
Follow me on Facebook where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.
Follow me on Instagram where I educate, equip and empower family members how to proactively care for their elderly loved ones.
Join my email list where I will lift you up, and send tactile advice weekly to support you to grow your experience in your senior living career.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin (00:00):
Leadership in senior living is more than sales, more
(00:02):
than operations.
It's about service, empathy andcreating communities that truly
feel like home.
But the big question is how dowe prepare the next generation
of leaders to balance businessgoals with heart-centered with
heart-centered leadership?
Today we are gonna sit down withJenna La Charity, a seasoned
(00:24):
leader in senior living,education and operations and
sales and marketing to talkabout what it takes to shape the
future of this industry.
I'm so excited about thisconversation.
Let's dive in.
Welcome, Jenna.
Welcome from Cold Canada.
Cold Cold Canada.
But I'm so honored to have youhere.
(00:45):
just so you know, generalCharity is the Director of Sales
and marketing at Levante SeniorLiving, and also a professor at
Algonquin College of AppliedArts and Technology.
What an honor.
What an honor to have you toknow that you reached out to me
and to have been able to kind ofwork with you a little bit and
(01:06):
talk to your team and your, andyour students.
And now to get this opportunityis.
Is truly a pleasure.
So thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Jenna (01:16):
Well, thank you Erin.
I have to say, this is a bit ofa fan girl moment for me because
I've been listening to yourpodcast and when I started
following following you onLinkedIn, I was just really
excited to connect with you.
So I'm really happy to be here.
Erin (01:31):
We have to, I, I love to listen to you talk because of
the way that you say certainwords and then, you know, I'm
sure it's the same way.
For me, although I am not ascountry as some people that I
know, but I'm still amazed thatsomeone in Alabama is talking to
someone in Canada on a podcastand I just get a kick out of it
(01:52):
every time.
So always know that there are noboundaries in where you can go
when you just try.
And I love that thisconversation is, is a such a
real life example of that.
So.
I love it.
Okay, so you started out as asocial worker, right?
(02:14):
That was kind of yourbackground.
You know, I, I wanted to dosomething totally different than
senior living, but you startedout as a social worker and then
you found senior living, youknow, with gerontology, senior
living, and it was like theangels saying to you, the way
that the angels sang to me whenI found senior living.
So.
(02:34):
Tell us how you started and thenhow you got to being where you
are now, which is reallyimpressive.
Jenna (02:42):
Yes.
So I did, start mypost-secondary education with
the goals of becoming a socialworker.
That was really what I strive todo.
I saw a lot of turbulence thatmy grandparents were
experiencing as my grandfatherwas becoming elderly, had the
diagnosis of dementia, was.
(03:04):
Exploring long-term carefacilities in Ontario, and I
really saw the struggle and thelack of supports for the spouse
that is still trying to managethe household and figure out
their loved one's care.
You know, it's definitely astory that if you have Parkinson
Senior living, you know it verywell, right?
That's why we see so many peoplecoming into our communities.
(03:26):
For that support, but that wasreally lacking in the healthcare
space I found.
So I did want to pursue socialwork, and my very first
placement was in a retirementresidence.
I.
And I had no real concept atthat point of what a retirement
residence had to offer.
I was more familiar with likethe higher level of care, more
(03:48):
of the long-term care, aspectsof senior living.
And when I started thatplacement and I saw somebody
doing a tour and connecting withthe family and asking these
conversations, and I thought tomyself, wow, like they're
getting like pretty intimate,like they're building a
relationship here.
And I started to see.
See a different future formyself.
(04:10):
I started to become moreinterested in doing that because
I saw a direct correlation tohelping.
I could, you know, I could justsee the help that this person
was providing and theopportunities available at that
community.
So I wrapped up my education andagain.
Still wasn't really sure what Iwas going to do at that point.
(04:31):
I was even joined with the ideaof going into geriatric, like
hands-on care nursing.
All I knew is I wanted to serveolder adults.
And then I saw a sales andmarketing position open up with
Chartwell, one of the larger,operators here in Canada.
And I got, you know, my firstjob right on post-secondary in
(04:51):
sales marketing, and.
Just as soon as I hit the groundrunning with that, I realized
how much I loved connecting withnew people every day.
Picking up that phone, callingsomeone new, finding out their
story, welcoming someone newinto the community, getting to
know them, having not a lot ofbackground information on
(05:13):
especially.
As we know, a walkin tour, butbeing able to sit down and just
get to know someone and figureout what is their story, how can
I be a part of it, and how can Ihelp them transition into their
next stage of life?
I really saw this as such abeautiful way to carry out, you
know, the, the remaining elderyears versus being in this
(05:37):
situation where you are forcedto make a decision, you don't
have the supports in place, andreally realizing just how many
opportunities there are outthere for seniors.
And that's when I never lookedback on sales and marketing and
senior living.
Erin (05:53):
I have a similar story.
You know, it was my grandfatherand the sales piece was never
about sales.
I didn't have the words for thatat the beginning, but it was
about service.
It was about literally solvingpeople's problems.
And if you're the better problemsolver, you're gonna have the
better occupancy.
You know, like that's just true.
(06:17):
And a good salespersonunderstands.
That it is helping people.
It is seeing your grandmotherneeding support.
Needing the reassurance.
Needing the perspective.
Yeah.
Needing that type of, of care.
And when you can see that and,and realize you're serving the
(06:38):
person in front of you and yourcommunity is serving the person
that that person's caring for,that's a huge, huge perspective
shift.
Huge.
Mm-hmm.
So you were able to likeliterally live that out inside
of a community?
Yes.
Jenna (06:53):
Did
Erin (06:53):
you
Jenna (06:54):
see the
Erin (06:54):
advantage of that too?
Jenna (06:56):
Yes, absolutely.
Just having that, thoseexperiences, I mean, the older
generation has so much to offerand if you're somebody that is
younger and you take the time tolean in with patience and open
ears, it's just incredible.
I found, you know, what it didfor me personally,
(07:16):
professionally, just to be ableto spend that much time with
older adults.
Erin (07:22):
Yeah.
Do you find that it's.
I mean, when you train, becauseyou have the ability to really
impact, I mean, you have aregion or you have a co, a
company full of sales directors.
You, you're teaching newleaders, you know, before they
enter a community.
Do you find that people arewilling to see the service side
(07:46):
of it?
Do, are they open to that?
Do they see the benefit of that?
Versus hardcore numbers and, andmetrics and all those things.
What do you see?
Jenna (07:56):
I find if I look at it from two different lenses, so
more from teaching, students, sowho are interested in working in
senior living, they may haveheld different positions with
more hands-on care.
So if it's somebody that'scoming in with a background of
nursing or personal supportwork, I find that I'm able to
(08:18):
pick up at a different pace withthem versus.
Somebody that has no priorexperience working in a senior
community or with older adults.
the biggest thing that I wantthe students to really just
resonate with is that you areworking in someone's home.
And I say that to new hires in,you know, at Lavante or with
(08:41):
previous operators that I'veworked with, that that is the
biggest shift.
And not many people in differentindustries can say that, you
know, that they truly work insomeone's home 24 7, that is
someone's home.
And that is sometimes thebiggest mindset shift is, you
know, positioning yourself in adifferent way to show up for
(09:04):
someone in their home.
Erin (09:05):
You know, I, I have, I, I didn't, I never really thought
about that from a perspective,from a, a leadership standpoint.
Like until you said that, from acaregiving standpoint, I would
say that because we are insomeone's home, we have to be
careful of, you know, the toneof our voice, the, the volume of
(09:26):
our voice and what we're sayingand those types of things.
But from a sales perspective.
I never really married the two.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I, I didn't.
And so I can see where that'sreally, really powerful,
especially for someone new whowas overwhelmed by the business
(09:48):
side of things
Jenna (09:50):
to really
Erin (09:51):
simplify it to like, this is someone's home.
Jenna (09:55):
Yeah.
Erin (09:55):
Well, and I, it's not a cold, stale place.
It is literally someone's
Jenna (09:59):
home.
Exactly, and I think coming backto just that mindset of
relationships on one of yourpodcast episodes that I listened
to, you say that relationshipsare the reward.
Relationships is what's going toget the NOI.
It's what's going to get theoccupancy, which will happen if
(10:20):
you lead yourself, lead yourteam like you are working in
someone's home and you'reputting those relationships.
First, not only therelationships from, you know,
the general manager, executivedirector, or the rest of the
management team, or thefrontline staff, but also
between the team membersthemselves, right?
(10:41):
Because it's a veryinterpersonal.
Business and residents can pickup.
If a management team is notrunning, you know, efficiently,
cohesively, they can pick up onthat, those emotions.
And I think that if we can justkeep relationships at the
forefront of everything we do,we are going to see that success
(11:02):
that does give us thatquantitative information of the
metrics and the revenue and theNOI and all those pieces of the
business.
Erin (11:11):
Yeah.
I mean, think about the, thinkabout the inside of a community.
How many levels of relationshipsdo we have?
If you had like a, a circle uphere where it said
relationships.
You would go and you would belike sales prospects.
You know, how many kids do theyhave?
Who's the fact?
Who's the deciding factor?
Then you would have operationsand then you would divide them
(11:34):
out into each department.
The executive director has tohave relationships with all of
the team, but the sales directorhas to have relationships with
all of the teams too.
Jenna (11:44):
Yeah,
Erin (11:44):
yeah.
You know, you have got to sellthe relationships.
That intertwined inside thecommunity, the, the caregivers
with the residents, theresidents with the caregivers,
the residents with, with theleader.
Mm-hmm.
It's very powerful.
I actually went to lunch with afew of my former residents
yesterday actually, and I askeda them a question.
(12:08):
Now selfishly, it's just forcontent reasons and, and, and to
teach, you know, new leaders andthings like that.
And I asked the question.
Now that you have lived, some ofthem in multiple communities,
they've had multiple executivedirectors.
What was more important, or whatis important to you in a value
(12:30):
of an administrator?
And this could go into a salesdirector as well, and the
overwhelming response from allthree of them was relationship
and presence.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, there's norelationship without presence.
But it was, do I see them?
Do they see me?
Do they know what my problemsare?
Are they gonna solve them?
(12:50):
It's all relationship based.
Jenna (12:52):
Yeah, and it's how we, you know, show up for each
other, right?
How we show up for our day.
I remember getting off of, youknow, meetings where perhaps it
was really talking aboutoccupancy and revenue, and it
was a little bit stressful and Iwas heading into a tour, and I
would actually physically givemyself a bit of a shake to just
snap out of that mindset.
(13:13):
So that I can go into this tourand be present.
I even find myself doing thatbetween calls with my sales team
so that I can really give themwhat they need from a supportive
perspective.
And I think it's what thestudents in my program, the
retirement communitiesmanagement is, they often think,
wow, like this is so muchpsychology and it's so much
(13:37):
about, they're like, I feellike, you know, sales is just
psychology.
And I'm like, yeah, there'sdefinitely, majority would be
psychology going into this.
It's an, you know, we're notselling a product necessarily
that people are always excitedabout, so we have to really tap
into the emotions.
We have to untangle the emotionsfor the prospect, their family,
(14:00):
sometimes multiple family,sometimes virtually.
And this is the piece where Ifind my.
Students right now are thinking,you know, wow.
Like everything we do reallyjust comes back to the person
that we're speaking with.
And I think I can see a littlebit of the stress sometimes, you
know, if interpersonal skillsdon't come as naturally to
(14:21):
someone or they're a bit moreshy, but I always try to respond
with, it's the basics ofbuilding a relationship.
How you would do that withanyone, right?
You start off by buildingrapport.
Finding that common ground,breaking the ice.
And I try to just to get theirnerves down a little bit that
way.
(14:42):
But yeah, that's, that's thebiggest feedback I've had is
wow, like there's just so muchpsychology in working in senior
living.
Erin (14:50):
There really is, and thank God you're warning them.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, thank God somebody talkingto these young folks, although
they're not all young, but that,that, you know, like.
Yes.
Be prepared.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like it really is, can be aminefield of emotions if we're
(15:10):
not.
Mm-hmm.
Jenna (15:11):
Yeah.
Build up your resiliency now.
Erin (15:14):
Make sure you have strong coping skills.
I love the fact that there isthis.
Horse in inside of a collegethat teaches people how to do
that.
And I have to say, man, I'm a,I'm a little jealous that you
get the opportunity to do that.
I can only imagine, what it'slike.
And how long have you been doingthis?
A couple years.
Jenna (15:35):
Yes.
Erin (15:35):
This is year three now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what, like, what is a patternthat you see or, well, maybe
we'll just say.
Do you believe that the futureis bright?
For us with, okay.
Okay.
You heard it from her first.
The future is bright.
Jenna (15:53):
I do.
I do really believe that.
Yes.
I mean, if we have anything tohang on to, is the fact that,
you know, we are all gettingolder, we're not getting
younger.
Yeah.
And more, more businesses arerealizing the services they can
offer and we're realizing moreof the positions that we can
have in the workforce.
(16:13):
And I'm seeing.
Real, true, genuine interest inpeople.
And I'm really, yeah, so I, Ican say that I think the
future's bright.
Erin (16:22):
That's good because people talk about these younger
generations and it makes youfeel like it's nuts.
But she's in it, she knows.
so beside the fact that theythink, they realize that we need
more psychology, what are otherpatterns that you see?
In these classes from year overyear, you know, or any feedback
(16:46):
that has been given to you?
Have you had any feedback?
I'm asking you a bunch ofquestions here, but patterns
year over year, I mean, yeah.
Jenna (16:54):
I would say, so the very first courts I taught for the
program was actually recreationand hospitality.
So a little bit outta mywheelhouse.
It was, you know, divided intorecreation and hospitality.
That was much more staticinformation, right?
It was, you know, the amount ofprograms that we have.
To provide the different,focusing on the dimensions of
wellness or how many carbs andprotein for the diet.
(17:18):
It was very right restrictive inthe the curriculum.
There wasn't a lot of room forthat creative thinking and.
To really kind of get outside ofthe bubbles of rec and culinary.
So when I started teaching forthe sales and marketing class,
what I found was that it justprovided the students with an
opportunity to really thinkabout their experiences with
(17:42):
older adults, with their family.
Also cultural perspectives.
What does aging look like indifferent cultures?
How do they care for.
Their elderly family members.
So there was an ability just toreally get very vulnerable and
have some really good, authenticconversations with the students.
a lot of conversations that I'vehad with students, coming from
(18:06):
India is this mindset and thecultural perspective of taking
care of.
They're older adults in theirown homes, family taking care of
family.
So this concept of moving into aretirement community is very new
or even working in one.
But now having, chosen to comeand have education in Canada,
(18:27):
it's expanding, you know, howwe're aging across.
The country really across likeinternationally.
And I think that's been, thebiggest piece of feedback that
I've had the most takeaways fromis just the, this cultural
change, the shift that we'reseeing in aging.
And then also the ability justto apply what they're learning
(18:50):
in sales and marketing to allareas of their life.
Like even how to show up for ajob, interview the follow up,
right?
How to, when you do that initialdiscovery and you're, you know,
bringing your resume in andyou're following up with that
employer, thanking them fortheir time or writing a cover
letter, all these differentpieces, I.
You know, use senior living asan example.
(19:13):
You're doing your initialcontact.
You're pre-qualifying thatprospect.
You're asking those questions,you're thanking them for their
time.
You're setting that next step.
It can translate into everyrelationship, and I think make
it better.
So that's been the biggesttakeaway is that I've had some
students reach out to me afterthey've graduated and said, you
(19:35):
know, I've really taken yourapproach to, finding a job as if
I'm working as a salesconsultant and senior living,
and they've been successful withit because again, it's that
relationship piece, thatconnection that's been the.
The biggest learning, I think,for them is that relationship
building.
The connection, just the humanaspect of this business.
(19:59):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (20:00):
Do you ever, you know, I was talking to someone recently
and they were just casuallymentioning about how salespeople
are scared to talk about moneysometimes.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I remember me as anew sales director, and you
know, this was.
In 2004.
And then to be able to tellsomebody, and again, this was at
(20:22):
a smaller community, you know,the rent was at that point in my
life as a 24-year-old, you know,paying$2,900 a month was
something that was soastronomical for me.
Now clearly rent is much highernow, but I was like, it's$2,900
a month.
You know what I mean?
Do you go into.
(20:44):
That much detail in your classesand, you know, do you see new
sales directors struggling withthe money conversations and
closing, you know?
Mm-hmm.
the way that other people seeit.
I mean, some pe some people gointo sales all about
relationships and not about thebusiness, you know what I mean?
Yes.
And so a, a close, a close canbe very challenging.
(21:08):
Mm-hmm.
Makes you wanna mm-hmm.
Sweat and get uncomfortable, butyou know, like do you see where
people struggle to talk aboutmoney?
Jenna (21:17):
I do see that.
I think from an actual salesconsultant, the struggle can
sometimes feeling like theydon't have the permission to ask
these intimate questions, right?
Because I feel like we grow upwith, you know, don't talk to
somebody about how much moneyyou make, or what your salary
is, or how much their housecosts, and those kinds of
financial questions.
So it's a bit of a generationalthing.
(21:38):
I feel that I had to kind of getover that initial hump as well
and feeling like it was okay.
But I think part of the processthat we have to do, as you know,
sales professionals and seniorliving, is laying it out for the
prospect, right?
To say, I'm going to ask yousome intimate questions about
your health and overall budget.
(22:00):
What's comfortable for you?
Just to really, you know, get toknow you and make this about
you.
It's not about anyone else, it'sabout you and your individual
situation.
So sometimes just getting thathead nod or that.
Yeah, that's okay.
We can talk about that.
Is that icebreaker or asking inthe class?
I use different segues like, youknow, do you own your own home?
(22:22):
Or do you have any investmentproperties?
asking different questions totry and get that information,
which I feel like is a bit of a,a soft plug until you finally
get a bit more comfortable.
in class.
They seem to, you know, be okaywith that.
They're like, oh yeah, thatmakes sense, because they need
to know what it's gonna costthem.
They need to budget.
(22:42):
But then when you're in thesituation, you're on that tour,
I find there is a bit of thatuncomfortable feeling, to
really.
Just give yourself permission toask those questions.
And I think it comes down to themindset.
You are that trusted seniorliving advisor.
You are the expert of yourcommunity.
(23:02):
You're there to help.
I.
And you know, what you said isabsolutely true.
Sometimes we see salespeople whobuild the best relationships,
but don't have the greatestclosing ratios because they feel
like asking for the close,almost deters, you know, derails
their relationship.
But really it's that ultimatepiece of the puzzle that's going
(23:26):
to provide them with thesolution.
Because if you've identified thesolution that you have to meet
their needs and then they don'tmove in, you're not really
helping them, they're just goingback to the situation in which
they have problems in.
So I like to coach salesprofessionals that.
Fear the clothes as a way to,you're sealing the deal, like
(23:48):
this is the last piece of yourrelationship puzzle.
To have them move into yourcommunity, to change their
lives, to make them better, andreally just be able to continue
that relationship that you'vebuilt.
Erin (24:02):
Yeah, I heard once when in, when I was in the community,
I don't remember who this was.
When we talk about closing andwe've never really, I've never
really talked about closing.
On a podcast before, but it'sabout the small closes.
And I really like this becauseit's a very human approach.
but when you're like on the tourand you're showing the
apartment, what size bed do theyhave?
(24:23):
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So that's a twin or a full or aqueen.
Okay.
So that's gonna go right here.
Does it fit?
Okay.
The couch, you know, is it aloveseat?
Is it a couch?
Those small, those are all smallcloses because you're asking
them to make a decision.
Yes.
To think about life inside theroom.
And I, I liked that because itgave me confidence over time to
(24:47):
ask for the big close.
Like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
Jenna (24:52):
Yes.
It's those small pieces of justfact finding along the way.
Okay, now I'm trying to chasethe, chase, the sunlight.
it's, it's really those piecesthat you're using to build
rapport along the way, right?
It, and it sometimes takes acouple of tours.
You also have to be adapt or youhave to adapt your selling style
(25:16):
depending on the person too.
And that's something I talkabout a lot in the.
Course as well as, you know,with my sales team is that
you're not always selling thesame way to everyone.
You might have an adult childthat is very much only wants
facts, financial information,doesn't really wanna get into
the emotional aspect, doesn'treally want to talk about, you
(25:38):
know, family legacy and hobbiesand what their loved ones did in
the past.
They really just are there tosay they need the care.
This is their budget.
They need to move in.
And that particular individual,you're not going to sell the
same way to someone who wants tospend three hours with you and
wants to tell you what their momdid, you know, for their career
(26:00):
and how she raised their family,and really get into those, those
emotional pieces.
So you really have to be veryadaptable in how you're managing
your relationships.
Erin (26:11):
Yeah.
And you say.
And your classes that, that,relationship, that that senior
living is a human, it's humancentered.
It's mm-hmm.
You know, we're, we're sellingour, their home.
Like yes, we're literallyselling them a new home, which
does make it somewhat of a realestate business.
It is a real estate business,but it is a human centered
(26:36):
business and humans have to talkabout money.
Right.
Humans have to decide whether ornot they want to be vulnerable
with you, or they want to keepthe facts to themselves.
They have to trust you.
Mm-hmm.
More than anything.
And fact finding is part ofbuilding trust.
Jenna (26:57):
Yeah.
And knowing your product too,and what you have to offer,
that's, part of the course wedo, like a competitive analysis
assignment where the studentshave to reach out to three
retirement living operators inOttawa and they need to connect
with the sales and marketingteam.
They need to learn about theproduct as if they're a
(27:19):
prospect.
And then part of the.
Assignment is how did thatsalesperson build trust with
you?
How did they build thecredibility?
How did they make you feel that,like how much they knew about
the community, right?
It's that knowing that you'rethe expert of your residents and
that's the piece that I reallyfeel is just empowering yourself
(27:41):
with as much knowledge.
About senior living as possible.
Like you're knowing yourcompetition and what they're
offering and really just beinglike that one stop shop where
they, that family, that prospectcan come and get all the
information that they need.
Erin (27:56):
Yeah.
That's a great exercise.
Jenna (27:59):
Yeah, it's fun.
I really love, I love theassignments and reviewing.
It's very subjective.
To get good, mark, I have tosay, because it's so subjective,
it really is your opinion.
There's no right or wronganswer, really.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's all my assignmentsare very much based on.
(28:20):
The emotions that they feel aswhen they're looking at the
websites or when they arereviewing an operator's Facebook
or social media presence, how dothey feel as a customer and with
the lens of, I'm looking for aloved one, what are the emotions
that those advertisements, thosemarketing campaigns bring up for
(28:40):
'em?
so it's really, it is just sucha subjective.
Which I think is why I switch itup so often is because I'm
always learning something.
So that means that there'salways something for them to be
learning as well.
Erin (28:55):
Okay.
Vulnerable question.
Have they called one of yourcommunities and has it always
been good or did they, did youhave like.
Moments of like, oh, I guess Ineed to follow up with this
person.
Jenna (29:09):
Fortunately, it has been good.
Yes, fortunately it has beengood.
We did get some really goodfeedback though, about one of
our Facebook pages, you know,and the consistency of posting,
and I said like, this is areally great takeaway.
I mean, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Our post should be more
Erin (29:26):
consistent.
I mean, that's a great.
Opportunity for you to actuallydo two things Time.
I know.
Jenna (29:34):
Yeah.
And it, it's just, it's reallife learning, which is also
part of, you know, the piece toothat it, it's not, you're not
just reading a textbook andsubmitting, you know, a midterm
or a final exam, and then younever have to revisit those
concepts again.
This is a postgraduate.
Program that is preparing youspecifically to work in a
(29:57):
retirement community.
And that I think is for me, themost refreshing because I went
to two different universities,received two different degrees.
It was very much being talkedto, not a lot of two-way
interaction with the professorhanding in assignments.
Passing midterms and then, youknow, I couldn't tell you what
(30:21):
some of the takeaways that Iremember learning are because it
wasn't very collaborative orthis program.
Every professor has worked insenior living for a number of
years.
We really each have the reallife experience to be able to
share with these students, and Ithink that's what makes it such
a great program.
Erin (30:41):
That's amazing.
And so I got to do.
a video, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Just a 30 minute video, and Iactually turned that into a, an
episode.
So a lot of.
People listened to what I did,and I did have one student of
yours, just send me a message onLinkedIn.
That was really, really nice.
Like, I was like, oh, thank you,thank you.
(31:02):
And it was all about mindset,boundaries, and energy, which is
certainly something that youare, you are trying to instill
in them in those perspectiveshifts.
Mm-hmm.
What did, what was the feedbackon that?
Did they like it?
Did they think I was off base?
Jenna (31:16):
No, they loved it.
And because we had been talkingso much about the relationships
before they were able to, tolisten to your video, they
really were able to put the twopieces together to see why they
need boundaries.
Because you are dealing withsome heavy conversations, with
some sad situations, a lot ofemotions.
(31:38):
So unless you're able to takecare of yourself mentally and
your own mindset, you are notgoing to be successful.
Or you may be successful for aperiod of time, but then you'll
likely burn out and be of noreal use to anyone.
So that was the piece that theyfound was, again, the most
tangible to take into otheraspects of their life as well.
Erin (32:01):
Yeah, that boundary piece is really, really, mm-hmm.
Really, really important.
Yeah.
You know, for all of us really,but especially for the new ones,
the new leaders to come in andunderstand, and especially if
you work, if you're a newperson, you took your course,
you have all these amazingperspectives, you can come into
(32:21):
a community that may have peoplewho are career inside of a
community who are a little bitmore hardened and you can be an
influence.
For good.
Mm-hmm.
And saying like, Hey, we alldon't have to light ourselves on
fire to make everybody elsewarm.
Like we can create boundaries,we can create collaboration to
(32:43):
where we all are helping andserving each other, which is
really, really important.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's a, a greatgift that you, you give to your,
to your students.
Okay, so to wrap it up.
Because this is a pretty greatconversation about sales and
education and closing, your,your selling a someone a home is
(33:09):
a really important mindsetperspective that we all need to
have.
That certainly puts things intoa different perspective, because
I never thought about that froma sales perspective, but also
that leaders in this industryneed to practice connection.
Problem solving and resiliencebeyond just the policies and
(33:30):
procedures.
and I know that's what yourstudents are getting and clearly
your, your, your entire regionor sales leaders that you're,
that you're leading are gettingthat as well.
So I'll let you finish it offwith what that means to you.
Connection, problem solving, andresilience.
(33:54):
We know that these people thatare wanting to come in.
And move their loved one in areresilient and they're saying I
need help.
Jenna (34:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
I think the best way to answerthis for me is, recently at
organizationally we've beenfocusing a lot on three core
pillars, achieve, connect, andthrive.
And that's what I have beenreally trying to frame
everything that I'm doing in thesales and marketing department
(34:22):
through those.
Different lenses.
How are we going to achievetogether?
We all know, you know, thebusiness aspect of senior
living.
We know we need occupancy.
We, need sales and operations.
You can't have sales withoutoperations and operations
without sales.
You really do need both.
And so we know the metrics tohit and the KPIs required to get
(34:43):
there, but then it's how are weconnecting with each other to
actually.
Be able to hit those targets.
So what are the relationshipsthat we're building?
how are we supporting our teamsin the field?
And I don't just mean, you know,hopping on a sales call and
running through accountability.
I.
And what's in the CRM, butreally getting down to, you
(35:04):
know, you've been on outbreakfor three, four weeks.
Like how is that reallyaffecting you?
Like you've been trying to getover a bad cold for a couple of
weeks, what do you need?
Like really just trying toconnect with them as people.
And sometimes when you'remanaging the business side of
things, that can get a littlebit lost.
In the, the hustle.
But that's something that Ireally feel as an organization
(35:27):
we do really well, is trying toconnect with our teams.
And because we are spread outacross the province, it is
mostly done in a virtual space.
But then that also allows us toconnect more frequently.
So connection is a really bigpiece for me because it's those
relationships and thenultimately how we come to thrive
(35:47):
together.
So if we have the occupancy andwe have the metrics and we're
succeeding as a company, withour bottom line and our revenue,
and then our teams are feelingengaged and connected, then we
are going to thrive as anorganization.
And that's really what I wantthe students to also take away
as.
Much as the teams that I'msupporting is that you really do
(36:10):
need that connection piece.
That's why it's in the middle.
Achieve, connect and thrive.
If you don't have theconnection, you don't have the
relationships, you're not goingto achieve and you're certainly
not going to be thriving.
So that's really, you know, my2025 mantra, if I will thrive in
2025 and what does that looklike?
(36:30):
And I think just.
For the students especially, isseeing how the different
departments of senior livingreally have to come together and
have that synergy and thatrelational energy that comes
together and comes out of havinga really great team.
So I think that just needs to bewhat we all remember is that it,
(36:53):
it's, it's the team, it's theresidents that we serve, how we
serve each other.
And if we can remember that atthe end of the day.
We're at least starting off onthe right foot.
Erin (37:04):
Yes.
Sales cannot do it withoutoperations.
Operations cannot do it withoutsales.
And if a sales director hastheir, their mindset, their
boundaries, and their energy,they gotta have their team and
they can, I, I believe thatsales, a sales director, can
create teamwork through tours.
(37:26):
Mm-hmm.
If you literally.
Call people out for, for thegood that they do.
You build trust with theprospect connection.
You build trust with the careteam, with the culinary team,
with whoever it is you'reintroducing, and you're just
doing literally two things atone time.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and it, that justcompounds good energy, synergy,
(37:51):
everything you could possibly,ever want inside of a community.
Yeah.
Yes.
That is an excellent point toend on.
Thank you so much.
You have really, well, I thinkmore than anything, you have
given us hope in the future,right?
There's the young ones.
The young ones are not as scaryas everybody's trying to make
(38:14):
them out to be.
Jenna (38:15):
That's true.
Yeah.
Perhaps even they're going to bebetter with setting boundaries.
I think that's
Erin (38:22):
actually, that's probably pretty true.
Jenna (38:23):
Yeah, that's
Erin (38:24):
true.
So follow Jenna.
she's doing great work.
I'm so super excited to, to seewhere you go and to, to, you
know, pour into your.
Your, your students and yourteam, with that video and, to
support you along the way.
So thank you for bringing,closing up and talking about
(38:45):
finances and giving us hope and,and you're right.
Connection.
You know, you have to haveconnection in order to connect,
achieving and thriving together.
It's amazing.
Thank you for your time.
It's very valuable.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
And if you have a new salesdirector in your community,
you're probably gonna wannashare this.
(39:05):
or even someone who's been inthere for a while, new
perspective.
Shifts are important, and whenyou're selling a home to
somebody, you're sellingsomeone's home to them.
It's really important to thinkabout it from that way.
So share this mindset shift andas always, aspire for more for
you.
Leadership in senior living is more than sales, more
(00:02):
than operations.
It's about service, empathy andcreating communities that truly
feel like home.
But the big question is how dowe prepare the next generation
of leaders to balance businessgoals with heart-centered with
heart-centered leadership?
Today we are gonna sit down withJenna La Charity, a seasoned
(00:24):
leader in senior living,education and operations and
sales and marketing to talkabout what it takes to shape the
future of this industry.
I'm so excited about thisconversation.
Let's dive in.
Welcome, Jenna.
Welcome from Cold Canada.
Cold Cold Canada.
But I'm so honored to have youhere.
(00:45):
just so you know, generalCharity is the Director of Sales
and marketing at Levante SeniorLiving, and also a professor at
Algonquin College of AppliedArts and Technology.
What an honor.
What an honor to have you toknow that you reached out to me
and to have been able to kind ofwork with you a little bit and
(01:06):
talk to your team and your, andyour students.
And now to get this opportunityis.
Is truly a pleasure.
So thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Jenna (01:16):
Well, thank you Erin.
I have to say, this is a bit ofa fan girl moment for me because
I've been listening to yourpodcast and when I started
following following you onLinkedIn, I was just really
excited to connect with you.
So I'm really happy to be here.
Erin (01:31):
We have to, I, I love to listen to you talk because of
the way that you say certainwords and then, you know, I'm
sure it's the same way.
For me, although I am not ascountry as some people that I
know, but I'm still amazed thatsomeone in Alabama is talking to
someone in Canada on a podcastand I just get a kick out of it
(01:52):
every time.
So always know that there are noboundaries in where you can go
when you just try.
And I love that thisconversation is, is a such a
real life example of that.
So.
I love it.
Okay, so you started out as asocial worker, right?
(02:14):
That was kind of yourbackground.
You know, I, I wanted to dosomething totally different than
senior living, but you startedout as a social worker and then
you found senior living, youknow, with gerontology, senior
living, and it was like theangels saying to you, the way
that the angels sang to me whenI found senior living.
So.
(02:34):
Tell us how you started and thenhow you got to being where you
are now, which is reallyimpressive.
Jenna (02:42):
Yes.
So I did, start mypost-secondary education with
the goals of becoming a socialworker.
That was really what I strive todo.
I saw a lot of turbulence thatmy grandparents were
experiencing as my grandfatherwas becoming elderly, had the
diagnosis of dementia, was.
(03:04):
Exploring long-term carefacilities in Ontario, and I
really saw the struggle and thelack of supports for the spouse
that is still trying to managethe household and figure out
their loved one's care.
You know, it's definitely astory that if you have Parkinson
Senior living, you know it verywell, right?
That's why we see so many peoplecoming into our communities.
(03:26):
For that support, but that wasreally lacking in the healthcare
space I found.
So I did want to pursue socialwork, and my very first
placement was in a retirementresidence.
I.
And I had no real concept atthat point of what a retirement
residence had to offer.
I was more familiar with likethe higher level of care, more
(03:48):
of the long-term care, aspectsof senior living.
And when I started thatplacement and I saw somebody
doing a tour and connecting withthe family and asking these
conversations, and I thought tomyself, wow, like they're
getting like pretty intimate,like they're building a
relationship here.
And I started to see.
See a different future formyself.
(04:10):
I started to become moreinterested in doing that because
I saw a direct correlation tohelping.
I could, you know, I could justsee the help that this person
was providing and theopportunities available at that
community.
So I wrapped up my education andagain.
Still wasn't really sure what Iwas going to do at that point.
(04:31):
I was even joined with the ideaof going into geriatric, like
hands-on care nursing.
All I knew is I wanted to serveolder adults.
And then I saw a sales andmarketing position open up with
Chartwell, one of the larger,operators here in Canada.
And I got, you know, my firstjob right on post-secondary in
(04:51):
sales marketing, and.
Just as soon as I hit the groundrunning with that, I realized
how much I loved connecting withnew people every day.
Picking up that phone, callingsomeone new, finding out their
story, welcoming someone newinto the community, getting to
know them, having not a lot ofbackground information on
(05:13):
especially.
As we know, a walkin tour, butbeing able to sit down and just
get to know someone and figureout what is their story, how can
I be a part of it, and how can Ihelp them transition into their
next stage of life?
I really saw this as such abeautiful way to carry out, you
know, the, the remaining elderyears versus being in this
(05:37):
situation where you are forcedto make a decision, you don't
have the supports in place, andreally realizing just how many
opportunities there are outthere for seniors.
And that's when I never lookedback on sales and marketing and
senior living.
Erin (05:53):
I have a similar story.
You know, it was my grandfatherand the sales piece was never
about sales.
I didn't have the words for thatat the beginning, but it was
about service.
It was about literally solvingpeople's problems.
And if you're the better problemsolver, you're gonna have the
better occupancy.
You know, like that's just true.
(06:17):
And a good salespersonunderstands.
That it is helping people.
It is seeing your grandmotherneeding support.
Needing the reassurance.
Needing the perspective.
Yeah.
Needing that type of, of care.
And when you can see that and,and realize you're serving the
(06:38):
person in front of you and yourcommunity is serving the person
that that person's caring for,that's a huge, huge perspective
shift.
Huge.
Mm-hmm.
So you were able to likeliterally live that out inside
of a community?
Yes.
Jenna (06:53):
Did
Erin (06:53):
you
Jenna (06:54):
see the
Erin (06:54):
advantage of that too?
Jenna (06:56):
Yes, absolutely.
Just having that, thoseexperiences, I mean, the older
generation has so much to offerand if you're somebody that is
younger and you take the time tolean in with patience and open
ears, it's just incredible.
I found, you know, what it didfor me personally,
(07:16):
professionally, just to be ableto spend that much time with
older adults.
Erin (07:22):
Yeah.
Do you find that it's.
I mean, when you train, becauseyou have the ability to really
impact, I mean, you have aregion or you have a co, a
company full of sales directors.
You, you're teaching newleaders, you know, before they
enter a community.
Do you find that people arewilling to see the service side
(07:46):
of it?
Do, are they open to that?
Do they see the benefit of that?
Versus hardcore numbers and, andmetrics and all those things.
What do you see?
Jenna (07:56):
I find if I look at it from two different lenses, so
more from teaching, students, sowho are interested in working in
senior living, they may haveheld different positions with
more hands-on care.
So if it's somebody that'scoming in with a background of
nursing or personal supportwork, I find that I'm able to
(08:18):
pick up at a different pace withthem versus.
Somebody that has no priorexperience working in a senior
community or with older adults.
the biggest thing that I wantthe students to really just
resonate with is that you areworking in someone's home.
And I say that to new hires in,you know, at Lavante or with
(08:41):
previous operators that I'veworked with, that that is the
biggest shift.
And not many people in differentindustries can say that, you
know, that they truly work insomeone's home 24 7, that is
someone's home.
And that is sometimes thebiggest mindset shift is, you
know, positioning yourself in adifferent way to show up for
(09:04):
someone in their home.
Erin (09:05):
You know, I, I have, I, I didn't, I never really thought
about that from a perspective,from a, a leadership standpoint.
Like until you said that, from acaregiving standpoint, I would
say that because we are insomeone's home, we have to be
careful of, you know, the toneof our voice, the, the volume of
(09:26):
our voice and what we're sayingand those types of things.
But from a sales perspective.
I never really married the two.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I, I didn't.
And so I can see where that'sreally, really powerful,
especially for someone new whowas overwhelmed by the business
(09:48):
side of things
Jenna (09:50):
to really
Erin (09:51):
simplify it to like, this is someone's home.
Jenna (09:55):
Yeah.
Erin (09:55):
Well, and I, it's not a cold, stale place.
It is literally someone's
Jenna (09:59):
home.
Exactly, and I think coming backto just that mindset of
relationships on one of yourpodcast episodes that I listened
to, you say that relationshipsare the reward.
Relationships is what's going toget the NOI.
It's what's going to get theoccupancy, which will happen if
(10:20):
you lead yourself, lead yourteam like you are working in
someone's home and you'reputting those relationships.
First, not only therelationships from, you know,
the general manager, executivedirector, or the rest of the
management team, or thefrontline staff, but also
between the team membersthemselves, right?
(10:41):
Because it's a veryinterpersonal.
Business and residents can pickup.
If a management team is notrunning, you know, efficiently,
cohesively, they can pick up onthat, those emotions.
And I think that if we can justkeep relationships at the
forefront of everything we do,we are going to see that success
(11:02):
that does give us thatquantitative information of the
metrics and the revenue and theNOI and all those pieces of the
business.
Erin (11:11):
Yeah.
I mean, think about the, thinkabout the inside of a community.
How many levels of relationshipsdo we have?
If you had like a, a circle uphere where it said
relationships.
You would go and you would belike sales prospects.
You know, how many kids do theyhave?
Who's the fact?
Who's the deciding factor?
Then you would have operationsand then you would divide them
(11:34):
out into each department.
The executive director has tohave relationships with all of
the team, but the sales directorhas to have relationships with
all of the teams too.
Jenna (11:44):
Yeah,
Erin (11:44):
yeah.
You know, you have got to sellthe relationships.
That intertwined inside thecommunity, the, the caregivers
with the residents, theresidents with the caregivers,
the residents with, with theleader.
Mm-hmm.
It's very powerful.
I actually went to lunch with afew of my former residents
yesterday actually, and I askeda them a question.
(12:08):
Now selfishly, it's just forcontent reasons and, and, and to
teach, you know, new leaders andthings like that.
And I asked the question.
Now that you have lived, some ofthem in multiple communities,
they've had multiple executivedirectors.
What was more important, or whatis important to you in a value
(12:30):
of an administrator?
And this could go into a salesdirector as well, and the
overwhelming response from allthree of them was relationship
and presence.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, there's norelationship without presence.
But it was, do I see them?
Do they see me?
Do they know what my problemsare?
Are they gonna solve them?
(12:50):
It's all relationship based.
Jenna (12:52):
Yeah, and it's how we, you know, show up for each
other, right?
How we show up for our day.
I remember getting off of, youknow, meetings where perhaps it
was really talking aboutoccupancy and revenue, and it
was a little bit stressful and Iwas heading into a tour, and I
would actually physically givemyself a bit of a shake to just
snap out of that mindset.
(13:13):
So that I can go into this tourand be present.
I even find myself doing thatbetween calls with my sales team
so that I can really give themwhat they need from a supportive
perspective.
And I think it's what thestudents in my program, the
retirement communitiesmanagement is, they often think,
wow, like this is so muchpsychology and it's so much
(13:37):
about, they're like, I feellike, you know, sales is just
psychology.
And I'm like, yeah, there'sdefinitely, majority would be
psychology going into this.
It's an, you know, we're notselling a product necessarily
that people are always excitedabout, so we have to really tap
into the emotions.
We have to untangle the emotionsfor the prospect, their family,
(14:00):
sometimes multiple family,sometimes virtually.
And this is the piece where Ifind my.
Students right now are thinking,you know, wow.
Like everything we do reallyjust comes back to the person
that we're speaking with.
And I think I can see a littlebit of the stress sometimes, you
know, if interpersonal skillsdon't come as naturally to
(14:21):
someone or they're a bit moreshy, but I always try to respond
with, it's the basics ofbuilding a relationship.
How you would do that withanyone, right?
You start off by buildingrapport.
Finding that common ground,breaking the ice.
And I try to just to get theirnerves down a little bit that
way.
(14:42):
But yeah, that's, that's thebiggest feedback I've had is
wow, like there's just so muchpsychology in working in senior
living.
Erin (14:50):
There really is, and thank God you're warning them.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, thank God somebody talkingto these young folks, although
they're not all young, but that,that, you know, like.
Yes.
Be prepared.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like it really is, can be aminefield of emotions if we're
(15:10):
not.
Mm-hmm.
Jenna (15:11):
Yeah.
Build up your resiliency now.
Erin (15:14):
Make sure you have strong coping skills.
I love the fact that there isthis.
Horse in inside of a collegethat teaches people how to do
that.
And I have to say, man, I'm a,I'm a little jealous that you
get the opportunity to do that.
I can only imagine, what it'slike.
And how long have you been doingthis?
A couple years.
Jenna (15:35):
Yes.
Erin (15:35):
This is year three now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what, like, what is a patternthat you see or, well, maybe
we'll just say.
Do you believe that the futureis bright?
For us with, okay.
Okay.
You heard it from her first.
The future is bright.
Jenna (15:53):
I do.
I do really believe that.
Yes.
I mean, if we have anything tohang on to, is the fact that,
you know, we are all gettingolder, we're not getting
younger.
Yeah.
And more, more businesses arerealizing the services they can
offer and we're realizing moreof the positions that we can
have in the workforce.
(16:13):
And I'm seeing.
Real, true, genuine interest inpeople.
And I'm really, yeah, so I, Ican say that I think the
future's bright.
Erin (16:22):
That's good because people talk about these younger
generations and it makes youfeel like it's nuts.
But she's in it, she knows.
so beside the fact that theythink, they realize that we need
more psychology, what are otherpatterns that you see?
In these classes from year overyear, you know, or any feedback
(16:46):
that has been given to you?
Have you had any feedback?
I'm asking you a bunch ofquestions here, but patterns
year over year, I mean, yeah.
Jenna (16:54):
I would say, so the very first courts I taught for the
program was actually recreationand hospitality.
So a little bit outta mywheelhouse.
It was, you know, divided intorecreation and hospitality.
That was much more staticinformation, right?
It was, you know, the amount ofprograms that we have.
To provide the different,focusing on the dimensions of
wellness or how many carbs andprotein for the diet.
(17:18):
It was very right restrictive inthe the curriculum.
There wasn't a lot of room forthat creative thinking and.
To really kind of get outside ofthe bubbles of rec and culinary.
So when I started teaching forthe sales and marketing class,
what I found was that it justprovided the students with an
opportunity to really thinkabout their experiences with
(17:42):
older adults, with their family.
Also cultural perspectives.
What does aging look like indifferent cultures?
How do they care for.
Their elderly family members.
So there was an ability just toreally get very vulnerable and
have some really good, authenticconversations with the students.
a lot of conversations that I'vehad with students, coming from
(18:06):
India is this mindset and thecultural perspective of taking
care of.
They're older adults in theirown homes, family taking care of
family.
So this concept of moving into aretirement community is very new
or even working in one.
But now having, chosen to comeand have education in Canada,
(18:27):
it's expanding, you know, howwe're aging across.
The country really across likeinternationally.
And I think that's been, thebiggest piece of feedback that
I've had the most takeaways fromis just the, this cultural
change, the shift that we'reseeing in aging.
And then also the ability justto apply what they're learning
(18:50):
in sales and marketing to allareas of their life.
Like even how to show up for ajob, interview the follow up,
right?
How to, when you do that initialdiscovery and you're, you know,
bringing your resume in andyou're following up with that
employer, thanking them fortheir time or writing a cover
letter, all these differentpieces, I.
You know, use senior living asan example.
(19:13):
You're doing your initialcontact.
You're pre-qualifying thatprospect.
You're asking those questions,you're thanking them for their
time.
You're setting that next step.
It can translate into everyrelationship, and I think make
it better.
So that's been the biggesttakeaway is that I've had some
students reach out to me afterthey've graduated and said, you
(19:35):
know, I've really taken yourapproach to, finding a job as if
I'm working as a salesconsultant and senior living,
and they've been successful withit because again, it's that
relationship piece, thatconnection that's been the.
The biggest learning, I think,for them is that relationship
building.
The connection, just the humanaspect of this business.
(19:59):
Mm-hmm.
Erin (20:00):
Do you ever, you know, I was talking to someone recently
and they were just casuallymentioning about how salespeople
are scared to talk about moneysometimes.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I remember me as anew sales director, and you
know, this was.
In 2004.
And then to be able to tellsomebody, and again, this was at
(20:22):
a smaller community, you know,the rent was at that point in my
life as a 24-year-old, you know,paying$2,900 a month was
something that was soastronomical for me.
Now clearly rent is much highernow, but I was like, it's$2,900
a month.
You know what I mean?
Do you go into.
(20:44):
That much detail in your classesand, you know, do you see new
sales directors struggling withthe money conversations and
closing, you know?
Mm-hmm.
the way that other people seeit.
I mean, some pe some people gointo sales all about
relationships and not about thebusiness, you know what I mean?
Yes.
And so a, a close, a close canbe very challenging.
(21:08):
Mm-hmm.
Makes you wanna mm-hmm.
Sweat and get uncomfortable, butyou know, like do you see where
people struggle to talk aboutmoney?
Jenna (21:17):
I do see that.
I think from an actual salesconsultant, the struggle can
sometimes feeling like theydon't have the permission to ask
these intimate questions, right?
Because I feel like we grow upwith, you know, don't talk to
somebody about how much moneyyou make, or what your salary
is, or how much their housecosts, and those kinds of
financial questions.
So it's a bit of a generationalthing.
(21:38):
I feel that I had to kind of getover that initial hump as well
and feeling like it was okay.
But I think part of the processthat we have to do, as you know,
sales professionals and seniorliving, is laying it out for the
prospect, right?
To say, I'm going to ask yousome intimate questions about
your health and overall budget.
(22:00):
What's comfortable for you?
Just to really, you know, get toknow you and make this about
you.
It's not about anyone else, it'sabout you and your individual
situation.
So sometimes just getting thathead nod or that.
Yeah, that's okay.
We can talk about that.
Is that icebreaker or asking inthe class?
I use different segues like, youknow, do you own your own home?
(22:22):
Or do you have any investmentproperties?
asking different questions totry and get that information,
which I feel like is a bit of a,a soft plug until you finally
get a bit more comfortable.
in class.
They seem to, you know, be okaywith that.
They're like, oh yeah, thatmakes sense, because they need
to know what it's gonna costthem.
They need to budget.
(22:42):
But then when you're in thesituation, you're on that tour,
I find there is a bit of thatuncomfortable feeling, to
really.
Just give yourself permission toask those questions.
And I think it comes down to themindset.
You are that trusted seniorliving advisor.
You are the expert of yourcommunity.
(23:02):
You're there to help.
I.
And you know, what you said isabsolutely true.
Sometimes we see salespeople whobuild the best relationships,
but don't have the greatestclosing ratios because they feel
like asking for the close,almost deters, you know, derails
their relationship.
But really it's that ultimatepiece of the puzzle that's going
(23:26):
to provide them with thesolution.
Because if you've identified thesolution that you have to meet
their needs and then they don'tmove in, you're not really
helping them, they're just goingback to the situation in which
they have problems in.
So I like to coach salesprofessionals that.
Fear the clothes as a way to,you're sealing the deal, like
(23:48):
this is the last piece of yourrelationship puzzle.
To have them move into yourcommunity, to change their
lives, to make them better, andreally just be able to continue
that relationship that you'vebuilt.
Erin (24:02):
Yeah, I heard once when in, when I was in the community,
I don't remember who this was.
When we talk about closing andwe've never really, I've never
really talked about closing.
On a podcast before, but it'sabout the small closes.
And I really like this becauseit's a very human approach.
but when you're like on the tourand you're showing the
apartment, what size bed do theyhave?
(24:23):
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So that's a twin or a full or aqueen.
Okay.
So that's gonna go right here.
Does it fit?
Okay.
The couch, you know, is it aloveseat?
Is it a couch?
Those small, those are all smallcloses because you're asking
them to make a decision.
Yes.
To think about life inside theroom.
And I, I liked that because itgave me confidence over time to
(24:47):
ask for the big close.
Like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
Jenna (24:52):
Yes.
It's those small pieces of justfact finding along the way.
Okay, now I'm trying to chasethe, chase, the sunlight.
it's, it's really those piecesthat you're using to build
rapport along the way, right?
It, and it sometimes takes acouple of tours.
You also have to be adapt or youhave to adapt your selling style
(25:16):
depending on the person too.
And that's something I talkabout a lot in the.
Course as well as, you know,with my sales team is that
you're not always selling thesame way to everyone.
You might have an adult childthat is very much only wants
facts, financial information,doesn't really wanna get into
the emotional aspect, doesn'treally want to talk about, you
(25:38):
know, family legacy and hobbiesand what their loved ones did in
the past.
They really just are there tosay they need the care.
This is their budget.
They need to move in.
And that particular individual,you're not going to sell the
same way to someone who wants tospend three hours with you and
wants to tell you what their momdid, you know, for their career
(26:00):
and how she raised their family,and really get into those, those
emotional pieces.
So you really have to be veryadaptable in how you're managing
your relationships.
Erin (26:11):
Yeah.
And you say.
And your classes that, that,relationship, that that senior
living is a human, it's humancentered.
It's mm-hmm.
You know, we're, we're sellingour, their home.
Like yes, we're literallyselling them a new home, which
does make it somewhat of a realestate business.
It is a real estate business,but it is a human centered
(26:36):
business and humans have to talkabout money.
Right.
Humans have to decide whether ornot they want to be vulnerable
with you, or they want to keepthe facts to themselves.
They have to trust you.
Mm-hmm.
More than anything.
And fact finding is part ofbuilding trust.
Jenna (26:57):
Yeah.
And knowing your product too,and what you have to offer,
that's, part of the course wedo, like a competitive analysis
assignment where the studentshave to reach out to three
retirement living operators inOttawa and they need to connect
with the sales and marketingteam.
They need to learn about theproduct as if they're a
(27:19):
prospect.
And then part of the.
Assignment is how did thatsalesperson build trust with
you?
How did they build thecredibility?
How did they make you feel that,like how much they knew about
the community, right?
It's that knowing that you'rethe expert of your residents and
that's the piece that I reallyfeel is just empowering yourself
(27:41):
with as much knowledge.
About senior living as possible.
Like you're knowing yourcompetition and what they're
offering and really just beinglike that one stop shop where
they, that family, that prospectcan come and get all the
information that they need.
Erin (27:56):
Yeah.
That's a great exercise.
Jenna (27:59):
Yeah, it's fun.
I really love, I love theassignments and reviewing.
It's very subjective.
To get good, mark, I have tosay, because it's so subjective,
it really is your opinion.
There's no right or wronganswer, really.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's all my assignmentsare very much based on.
(28:20):
The emotions that they feel aswhen they're looking at the
websites or when they arereviewing an operator's Facebook
or social media presence, how dothey feel as a customer and with
the lens of, I'm looking for aloved one, what are the emotions
that those advertisements, thosemarketing campaigns bring up for
(28:40):
'em?
so it's really, it is just sucha subjective.
Which I think is why I switch itup so often is because I'm
always learning something.
So that means that there'salways something for them to be
learning as well.
Erin (28:55):
Okay.
Vulnerable question.
Have they called one of yourcommunities and has it always
been good or did they, did youhave like.
Moments of like, oh, I guess Ineed to follow up with this
person.
Jenna (29:09):
Fortunately, it has been good.
Yes, fortunately it has beengood.
We did get some really goodfeedback though, about one of
our Facebook pages, you know,and the consistency of posting,
and I said like, this is areally great takeaway.
I mean, yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Our post should be more
Erin (29:26):
consistent.
I mean, that's a great.
Opportunity for you to actuallydo two things Time.
I know.
Jenna (29:34):
Yeah.
And it, it's just, it's reallife learning, which is also
part of, you know, the piece toothat it, it's not, you're not
just reading a textbook andsubmitting, you know, a midterm
or a final exam, and then younever have to revisit those
concepts again.
This is a postgraduate.
Program that is preparing youspecifically to work in a
(29:57):
retirement community.
And that I think is for me, themost refreshing because I went
to two different universities,received two different degrees.
It was very much being talkedto, not a lot of two-way
interaction with the professorhanding in assignments.
Passing midterms and then, youknow, I couldn't tell you what
(30:21):
some of the takeaways that Iremember learning are because it
wasn't very collaborative orthis program.
Every professor has worked insenior living for a number of
years.
We really each have the reallife experience to be able to
share with these students, and Ithink that's what makes it such
a great program.
Erin (30:41):
That's amazing.
And so I got to do.
a video, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Just a 30 minute video, and Iactually turned that into a, an
episode.
So a lot of.
People listened to what I did,and I did have one student of
yours, just send me a message onLinkedIn.
That was really, really nice.
Like, I was like, oh, thank you,thank you.
(31:02):
And it was all about mindset,boundaries, and energy, which is
certainly something that youare, you are trying to instill
in them in those perspectiveshifts.
Mm-hmm.
What did, what was the feedbackon that?
Did they like it?
Did they think I was off base?
Jenna (31:16):
No, they loved it.
And because we had been talkingso much about the relationships
before they were able to, tolisten to your video, they
really were able to put the twopieces together to see why they
need boundaries.
Because you are dealing withsome heavy conversations, with
some sad situations, a lot ofemotions.
(31:38):
So unless you're able to takecare of yourself mentally and
your own mindset, you are notgoing to be successful.
Or you may be successful for aperiod of time, but then you'll
likely burn out and be of noreal use to anyone.
So that was the piece that theyfound was, again, the most
tangible to take into otheraspects of their life as well.
Erin (32:01):
Yeah, that boundary piece is really, really, mm-hmm.
Really, really important.
Yeah.
You know, for all of us really,but especially for the new ones,
the new leaders to come in andunderstand, and especially if
you work, if you're a newperson, you took your course,
you have all these amazingperspectives, you can come into
(32:21):
a community that may have peoplewho are career inside of a
community who are a little bitmore hardened and you can be an
influence.
For good.
Mm-hmm.
And saying like, Hey, we alldon't have to light ourselves on
fire to make everybody elsewarm.
Like we can create boundaries,we can create collaboration to
(32:43):
where we all are helping andserving each other, which is
really, really important.
Yeah.
So I, I think that's a, a greatgift that you, you give to your,
to your students.
Okay, so to wrap it up.
Because this is a pretty greatconversation about sales and
education and closing, your,your selling a someone a home is
(33:09):
a really important mindsetperspective that we all need to
have.
That certainly puts things intoa different perspective, because
I never thought about that froma sales perspective, but also
that leaders in this industryneed to practice connection.
Problem solving and resiliencebeyond just the policies and
(33:30):
procedures.
and I know that's what yourstudents are getting and clearly
your, your, your entire regionor sales leaders that you're,
that you're leading are gettingthat as well.
So I'll let you finish it offwith what that means to you.
Connection, problem solving, andresilience.
(33:54):
We know that these people thatare wanting to come in.
And move their loved one in areresilient and they're saying I
need help.
Jenna (34:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
I think the best way to answerthis for me is, recently at
organizationally we've beenfocusing a lot on three core
pillars, achieve, connect, andthrive.
And that's what I have beenreally trying to frame
everything that I'm doing in thesales and marketing department
(34:22):
through those.
Different lenses.
How are we going to achievetogether?
We all know, you know, thebusiness aspect of senior
living.
We know we need occupancy.
We, need sales and operations.
You can't have sales withoutoperations and operations
without sales.
You really do need both.
And so we know the metrics tohit and the KPIs required to get
(34:43):
there, but then it's how are weconnecting with each other to
actually.
Be able to hit those targets.
So what are the relationshipsthat we're building?
how are we supporting our teamsin the field?
And I don't just mean, you know,hopping on a sales call and
running through accountability.
I.
And what's in the CRM, butreally getting down to, you
(35:04):
know, you've been on outbreakfor three, four weeks.
Like how is that reallyaffecting you?
Like you've been trying to getover a bad cold for a couple of
weeks, what do you need?
Like really just trying toconnect with them as people.
And sometimes when you'remanaging the business side of
things, that can get a littlebit lost.
In the, the hustle.
But that's something that Ireally feel as an organization
(35:27):
we do really well, is trying toconnect with our teams.
And because we are spread outacross the province, it is
mostly done in a virtual space.
But then that also allows us toconnect more frequently.
So connection is a really bigpiece for me because it's those
relationships and thenultimately how we come to thrive
(35:47):
together.
So if we have the occupancy andwe have the metrics and we're
succeeding as a company, withour bottom line and our revenue,
and then our teams are feelingengaged and connected, then we
are going to thrive as anorganization.
And that's really what I wantthe students to also take away
as.
Much as the teams that I'msupporting is that you really do
(36:10):
need that connection piece.
That's why it's in the middle.
Achieve, connect and thrive.
If you don't have theconnection, you don't have the
relationships, you're not goingto achieve and you're certainly
not going to be thriving.
So that's really, you know, my2025 mantra, if I will thrive in
2025 and what does that looklike?
(36:30):
And I think just.
For the students especially, isseeing how the different
departments of senior livingreally have to come together and
have that synergy and thatrelational energy that comes
together and comes out of havinga really great team.
So I think that just needs to bewhat we all remember is that it,
(36:53):
it's, it's the team, it's theresidents that we serve, how we
serve each other.
And if we can remember that atthe end of the day.
We're at least starting off onthe right foot.
Erin (37:04):
Yes.
Sales cannot do it withoutoperations.
Operations cannot do it withoutsales.
And if a sales director hastheir, their mindset, their
boundaries, and their energy,they gotta have their team and
they can, I, I believe thatsales, a sales director, can
create teamwork through tours.
(37:26):
Mm-hmm.
If you literally.
Call people out for, for thegood that they do.
You build trust with theprospect connection.
You build trust with the careteam, with the culinary team,
with whoever it is you'reintroducing, and you're just
doing literally two things atone time.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and it, that justcompounds good energy, synergy,
(37:51):
everything you could possibly,ever want inside of a community.
Yeah.
Yes.
That is an excellent point toend on.
Thank you so much.
You have really, well, I thinkmore than anything, you have
given us hope in the future,right?
There's the young ones.
The young ones are not as scaryas everybody's trying to make
(38:14):
them out to be.
Jenna (38:15):
That's true.
Yeah.
Perhaps even they're going to bebetter with setting boundaries.
I think that's
Erin (38:22):
actually, that's probably pretty true.
Jenna (38:23):
Yeah, that's
Erin (38:24):
true.
So follow Jenna.
she's doing great work.
I'm so super excited to, to seewhere you go and to, to, you
know, pour into your.
Your, your students and yourteam, with that video and, to
support you along the way.
So thank you for bringing,closing up and talking about
(38:45):
finances and giving us hope and,and you're right.
Connection.
You know, you have to haveconnection in order to connect,
achieving and thriving together.
It's amazing.
Thank you for your time.
It's very valuable.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
And if you have a new salesdirector in your community,
you're probably gonna wannashare this.
(39:05):
or even someone who's been inthere for a while, new
perspective.
Shifts are important, and whenyou're selling a home to
somebody, you're sellingsomeone's home to them.
It's really important to thinkabout it from that way.
So share this mindset shift andas always, aspire for more for
you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!