Episode Transcript
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Erin (00:00):
What if the culture of
your team isn't defined by the
big retreats or the company'svalues on the wall, but by the
conversations that you areavoiding?
Today, I'm joined by JeannieFrazier, an award-winning
leadership and learning expertwho has spent over two decades
helping organizations acrossindustries, not just train their
(00:22):
teams, but transform how theycommunicate.
From her time at Franklin Covey,where she trained on world
renowned frameworks like theSeven Habits of Highly Effective
People, my favorite to launchingher own successful consulting
business.
Jeannie has developed areputation for helping leaders
do the hardest thing.
(00:42):
Well have the conversations thatmatter the most.
We are going to dive into whyavoiding hard conversations
might be the very thing that'sholding you back, why your
emotional bank account may beoverdrawn, and how to rebuild
trust before you need it, whichis my favorite topic.
And how to help your team findtheir voice, especially when the
(01:07):
stakes are high.
I am excited to dive into thisepisode to share you principles
like seek first to understandand think win-win can radically
improve the way that you leadconversations, especially in
emotionally driven chargedenvironments like senior living.
So grab a notepad, open up yournotes app.
(01:29):
And let's begin thisconversation.
Hi, Jeannie.
Welcome.
Hey, how are you?
Thank you for having me.
I am so excited to dive intothis episode with you.
So tell us, tell the, telleverybody a little bit about
yourself.
Jeannie (01:44):
Yeah.
So my love and passion is aroundlearning and development, but
like most people, it wasn't myoriginal plan.
I double majored in college,marketing and management.
And then upon graduation, Ibegan working for the Union
Pacific Railroad.
So I was in transportation andlogistics, and I started my
career working in their directmarketing center where I
(02:06):
managed.
Hundreds of small accounts.
And then from there I wasselected to be a part of their
management development program.
And in both of those roles, Iwas exposed to, so many, great
training opportunities.
And during that time, I just wasin awe of the talented
facilitators at Union Pacifichad, and I enjoyed all of the.
(02:27):
Incredible content that I wasexposed to.
I mean, I could go on and onabout all the great
opportunities that were providedto me and right then and there,
I told myself, Hey.
That is what I wanna do someday.
And it took me a while to getthere, but the journey was worth
it.
And so my entry point into thisindustry is when I began working
for Achieve Global.
Still to this day, it was thebest company I ever worked for
(02:50):
with the most supportive.
Amazing culture and I was therefor 11 years and I worked with
clients all across our countryon their employee development
needs, anywhere from salestraining, leadership
development, customer service,what have you.
And when I was there, I justfelt like I found my place.
I absolutely loved it, but we'veall been around long enough to
know that, good thingseventually come to an end.
(03:12):
That is when, achieve Global waspurchased by Miller Hyman and
then purchased by Korn Ferry.
That is when I moved on toworking for a couple of other,
training companies and thensettled in at Franklin Covey
before I started my own company.
And why do I do what I do?
This field learning anddevelopment matters so much to
me.
I've got 23 years of experience.
(03:33):
I've been in this industry and,during that time I've gained
just a great amount of respectfor all L and d professionals
and practitioners.
They have a challenging job,that people outside of l and d
do not understand.
The level of detail that goesinto one single training class
is incredible.
And overall, it's a very hardjob, especially getting buy-in
(03:55):
from leaders.
And the employees to take thattime out and attend some of the
great learning opportunitiesthat we're providing to them.
Their day job always takesprecedence.
So that's always a challengethere.
And what, irritates or irks methe most is when times get tough
with the economy.
L and d is typically the firstto get their budget cut or the
(04:16):
first to get their team memberscut.
And all I can say is bigmistake.
It irritates me.
But I'm such a big advocate forl and d and the work that we do
matters.
Because if you think about it,when it's done right, it
positively impacts the employee,their team, the organization,
the clients, their culture.
If you look at it from anexecutive perspective, we help
(04:38):
move the metrics that they lookat, that matter to them in the
right direction, such asretention, number of promotions,
employee engagement, and ofcourse probably their favorite
metric revenue.
So that's my why, and that's howI kind of got to where I am
today.
Erin (04:55):
Yeah, there's so much
there because I want to say
just.
Because I am doing a lot oftrainings and a lot of
presentations, a, I just wannavalidate how much work goes into
this.
If you really want to add valueto people's lives, if you really
want to plant the seeds forpeople to grow, there's a lot of
(05:16):
work that goes into creating.
Presentations, trainings,facilitations to really add
value to people.
I never appreciated it, and Ijust want you to know, like I
sit in the struggle bus everytime I create something because
is it good enough?
(05:37):
Is it this, is it that I watchall these people and how they do
it, and then when I'm doingsomething similar to what
they're doing, I feel like it'snot any good.
But then other people, you know,like I want somebody to tell me
exactly how to do it, to make itgood.
And that just doesn't exist.
Jeannie (05:58):
Yeah.
it's an ongoing experiment.
Honestly.
when I went out on my own, Iwanted to pride myself on
tailoring everything to theclient and to their audience.
And that's time consuming attimes, but it's so worth it.
I don't wanna offer somethingoff the shelf with generic
skills and say, Hey, this willwork for you.
It's about having thoseconversations with your clients,
putting together that outline,getting their feedback, Hey,
(06:19):
what do you like, what should Iomit?
What am I missing?
And then it all comes together.
Erin (06:24):
Yeah.
And, and working inside seniorliving.
One company that I worked withdid, and it was very much, it
wasn't necessarily like aboutgrowth, but it was about all the
trainings that you're requiredto have, right?
Yes.
Yes.
One of the things that I think.
We don't pay enough attentionto, which I know that you do
(06:47):
because of the experience thatyou've had, is the word growth.
And there, I, for a long time Imade the mistake where there's
professional growth and there'spersonal growth, and I was under
the, lie that professionalgrowth was more important than
personal growth until.
Professional growth gets toohigh, and personal growth stays
(07:09):
too low, and this tension inbetween creates havoc and chaos
in one's life.
If you've been listening longenough, you understand that that
was my biggest hurdle in life.
But when we make, and this iswhat I strive to do when we make
personal growth intentional inthe professional growth.
(07:32):
All of a sudden we create betterhuman beings, which are better
leaders, better directors,better caregivers, and that's my
goal.
Is that how you incorporate itin your trainings and
facilitations?
Jeannie (07:48):
Yeah, I mean you need
that balance.
I completely agree with you onthat, Erin, the personal and
professional, they both go handin hand and you can't have them
out of sync.
And what I, so primarily what Ioffer is soft skills.
I know a lot of people don'tlike that term.
Essential skills, people skills,what have you.
That's what I primarily offerfor employees and leaders those
(08:09):
soft skills are applicable inyour professional and your
personal life.
It's applicable anytime youinteract with a human being.
And so, that's another reasonwhy I love this industry so
much.
Everything that, I'm able toprovide my clients, it's useful
in all aspects of their life.
And, you know, you're making animpact.
So I completely agree with thatbalance.
Erin (08:29):
I like the term essential
skills.
I like soft skills too, but theonly reason why they're soft is
because you can't.
Manage them like you can themetric piece to it.
I really like the term essentialskills because in the world that
we live in today, they areessential
Jeannie (08:45):
absolutely and they're
more important than ever with
our girlfriend ai.
So yes,
Erin (08:50):
yes, it's true.
And I think that's probably whyyou and I were talking before
that you're getting a lot ofrequests for how to have hard
conversations.
Yes.
Like, and I've heard a lot ofother people talking about how
that seems to be somethingthat's very important now, and I
think a lot of the burnout thatwe're seeing inside of senior
(09:11):
living, you know, and somewhatit played a role in mine, but
not too specifically, but it isavoiding the hard conversations.
Jeannie (09:21):
You
Erin (09:21):
know, when we avoid the
hard conversations.
We just take on more work, wejust get frustrated.
We get resentful and we startchurning that story inside of
us, and then eventually all thatjunk has to come out.
Yes.
And normally it's not in a veryprofessional way.
Jeannie (09:41):
I love my statistics.
Anyone that has joined, whetherit be my networking group
session or one of my learningsessions, I always open,
whatever topic it may be withstatistics, and so I've got one
for you.
It's from Forbes currently,right now, 70% of employees are
avoiding difficult conversationsat work.
To me, that's one of the mostprevalent challenges out there
(10:01):
when it comes to theseconversations because you.
We're all guilty.
Deep down, you hope thesituation will just go away, or
maybe as time passes, I'lleither work up the courage to
have the conversation or thesituation will go away.
The longer you put off thatconversation though, as you
said, Erin, the more thosefeelings and they're typically
not positive feelings, the morethose feelings just linger.
(10:22):
I always compare it to apressure cooker.
You can only have so much andthen all of a sudden you're just
gonna get ready to burst.
And that is not good for.
Either party.
Erin (10:32):
No.
It really isn't.
And I think it shines horriblyon the leader.
Yeah.
When they allow it to get tothat point, and the person who
planted, didn't do the work ordidn't do what they were
supposed to do, they become thevictim.
Jeannie (10:51):
Yes.
Erin (10:52):
Unfortunately.
Jeannie (10:52):
Yep.
Erin (10:53):
Because.
You just let it out on somebody.
You know what I mean?
And I think it's the short termdiscomfort that we're scared of,
and we don't even realize thelong term destruction that it's
going to give you.
Jeannie (11:11):
Yep.
Erin (11:11):
Yeah,
Jeannie (11:12):
no, I completely agree.
The closer you can address thesituation in the actual moment
that it happened, the better.
Even though it's hard and we allneed to take that personal time
out.
We all need to take that deepbreath and put some preparation
into it because these areconversations you just can't go
wing.
As long as you are somewhatprepared.
Take that time out, like I said,and have it, if you could get it
(11:34):
done within the day or the weekthat it happened, both sides
will feel so much better.
Yes.
Honestly, it's supposed to be acollaborative conversation and
if you have it in the moment orclose to that time, both parties
can exhale and be like, okay, wegot that over with it was
productive, we're collaborative,we're moving forward.
Erin (11:52):
Yes.
Okay.
Do you have a framework or aprocess that you recommend when
preparing for one of these hardconversations?
Can you gimme something that Ican walk through?
Jeannie (12:04):
Absolutely.
For Harvard Business Review, 85%of people actually do take that
time out to prepare for theseconversations, which I think is.
Wonderful.
'cause I mentioned earlier, um,you just can't wing it.
Oh my gosh.
It'll go south so fast.
It's not even funny.
So what I find interesting fromthe research is one of the most
important factors to consider inyour preparation is not only
(12:27):
when you should have thatconversation, but if you should
have that conversation.
And so what I like to tell myclients, there are six key
questions I like for them to askthemselves to determine is this
worth?
Having that talk.
And so the first one is, is the,impact of the, issue serious
enough that I need to addressit?
(12:47):
Two, what will be the impact onme, the other person in my
organization, if.
it's addressed three, If I saynothing, will it be an obstacle
to performance or jobsatisfaction, not only for you,
but for others.
And then number four is also afavorite of mine.
Will this still matter in amonth or two?
So where are we at?
July?
(13:08):
Fast forward to after the LaborDay holiday.
Think about where you would be,visualize yourself, think about
will, will that issue still belingering?
If it's a yes, then absolutelymove forward with that
conversation.
Uh, number five, is theresomething else in my life that
might be making this issuebigger than it actually is?
And we all can relate to it.
(13:28):
We all have personal lives, weall have stuff going on.
All the time.
And unfortunately we carry a lotof that into our professional
lives.
If that's outta balance andyou've got a lot of stuff
personally going on that'sweighing heavily on you think
about the impact that it'shaving on this particular issue.
And then finally, is theconversation worth the personal
(13:49):
risk it might involve?
Mm-hmm.
So those are just some keythings to think about.
And so after you've taken thetime out and thought through
those, if you've determinedthat, hey.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
It's time to move forward withthis conversation.
Um, I then pose a few additionalquestions to help them prepare,
whether you get it out on paperor just think through it.
(14:10):
And so, um, one is just cut tothe chase.
What is the issue that you needto raise?
Two is what has happened up tothis point.
You know, why are you havingthat conversation?
Three, this, this ties back to,to the good old seven habits.
What is my end in mind?
So think about after thisconversation has concluded.
What do you expect to havehappened?
(14:30):
What is your end in mind?
What do you wanna see happen?
Four is how do you anticipatethe other person to react?
And that's very importantbecause a lot of times these
difficult conversations areabout topics that are very
important to either you, theother person or both, and that
can help fuel emotions.
And so really think about thatperson.
(14:50):
Hopefully you know them wellenough to know their demeanor,
their personality, and if you doanticipate.
Things getting heated or alittle bit emotional.
Go into that and think aboutwhat is your plan going to be to
help overcome that or help themovercome that.
And then finally, this also tiesinto the seven habits.
What goals do we share?
So this is not a me, me, meconversation.
(15:11):
This is a collaborativeconversation.
You want it to be a win-win forboth parties.
You want them to walk awayfeeling good as you do yourself.
Erin (15:19):
Think with the end in
mind, but isn't that like what
we should do all the time?
Jeannie (15:24):
Oh, absolutely.
Think with
Erin (15:25):
the end in mind, not in
the moment.
Because in the moment alljudgment is cloudy.
Jeannie (15:32):
I would agree.
Erin (15:34):
Okay.
A lot is a lot of leaders areoverextended, especially inside
of a community and.
Everything that you gave us justin that last three minutes is
very valuable.
I can see the value in that, butI'm a leader who's overextended,
who's tired, who's alreadyallowed a level of resentment
(15:59):
that is probably here.
Sure.
I think my question is.
How do I make that level ofproactiveness and intentionality
worth it?
You know what I mean?
Because I'm ready, I am ready tocharge, and I'm ready to let it
(16:19):
all out.
Maybe think with the end in mindis the answer there, but how can
we use this moment?
That framework, those questions.
Because as an overextendedleader, maybe I don't understand
how important questions are.
Sure.
They are very important.
What is the value of slowingthings down and asking those
(16:41):
questions.
Jeannie (16:43):
Yeah, so I can really
relate to this.
The last week in June, I spentsome time, with a senior living
organization.
I've been, working on a largeproject for them, and, it's not
my first time I've been thereand I always leave their
facility, just with the utmostrespect and gratitude for the
employees I encountered.
All sorts of different levels,all sorts of different
(17:05):
employees.
They're just such special peoplethat work in that industry.
the ones on the floor,especially running here, there
everywhere, you know, they'refatigued, you know, at times
they're frustrated.
You know, if you're a CNA andsomebody.
Calls in sick for their shift,and now you've got all these
extra rooms you also have tomanage.
It gets frustrating at times.
And so I love what you said,Erin.
(17:27):
How do you pause?
How do you kind of take thatdeep breath?
I'm a big believer in simplypausing before you respond and a
short pause, before you respondcan help you.
Reply accordingly, instead ofreact.
There's a huge differencebetween responding and reacting.
You can really accomplish thatby some simple things just kind
(17:47):
of.
You know, I did this before ourpodcast.
I, I just took a deep breath andit just relaxes you.
You can kind of take a step backand count to three in your head.
Sometimes it seems like it'sthree minutes.
Sometimes it, it seems like it'sthree seconds, but just that
simple pause can kind of helpyou regroup in your mind and
then.
If you need to, just excuseyourself.
So I'm looking, so for example,maybe you're in the middle of a
(18:10):
conversation.
It's not going in the rightdirection.
You could say, Hey, let's bothtake a quick timeout.
Let's reconvene at 11.
That way you give both parties achance to kind of take that
breather, and, and take thattime out to really gather their
thoughts.
I'm also a big believer in,doing an emotional temperature
check of your own.
Self-awareness is essential inpreventing emotional spillover.
(18:34):
So a key question I like to poseto people and to have them ask
themselves is, Hey, am Iresponding to the person or to
my own stress right now?
That kind of ties back to thosepreparation questions.
Erin (18:47):
A self-awareness is so key
and I think it's missing in so
much, and I am doing apresentation actually this week
where I'm diving into reactingversus responding, and it really
is a choice.
Yes, it is.
Yep.
We think that we don't have achoice because we're impulsive
and we're tired and we'reoverextending.
(19:10):
And what you're explaining sosimplistically and so expertly,
is you do have a choice.
You have a choice to pause, youhave a choice.
When you feel that trigger beingsqueezed, that is your cue to
pause.
Because you're, you're going tobe reacting to the situation,
(19:33):
but it's gonna feel like to theperson you're reacting to, the
person.
Jeannie (19:37):
Reacting, sometimes,
leads to regret.
Yes.
Erin (19:41):
Yeah.
So true.
It's so true.
Okay, I want to switch to yourexperience inside Franklin
Covey, because I am a huge fanof, the Seven Habits.
Inside the communities,executive directors and nursing
directors or even, any directorwho is responsible for training,
(20:04):
people sure are responsible formonthly in-services and maybe
even more frequently than that,but most states have.
Required trainings that theyhave to do.
What are some like beginner tipsto medium experience tips of how
(20:25):
to get your point across forpeople to understand it, even
when you're not a professionalspeaker or presenter.
Jeannie (20:34):
Yeah, that's a really
good question.
Again, taking that pause andpreparing.
Yeah.
And sometimes you can't do thatwhen you're in the moment, but
you still can pause in themoment.
And think about, how you shouldtruly respond what you need to
say.
And keep it succinct.
And then allow the other personto start asking you more
(20:54):
questions.
And that gives you a little bitmore time back on your side to
where if you kind of say yourpiece and don't go on and on
forever, just keep it succinctand then kind of hit the tennis
ball back to their side of thecourt and ask for their
response, or ask for theirreaction.
Ask if they have any questionsand then that can help, guide
the conversation in the moment.
Erin (21:14):
In regards to training,
like for monthly in services, do
you find that when the leaderteaches.
Or when the leader kind offacilitates those monthly
inservices, you know, like yourall staff meetings and
everything.
Do you find that when the leaderteaches and then asks questions
and gets feedback, or when theleader just stands up there and
(21:36):
presents which one is better forthe audience and.
Retention of the information.
Jeannie (21:46):
Yeah.
It should never be a monologue.
The two-way conversation, isessential, especially in the
senior living communities.
There's just so many things thatthey're carrying with them into
those meetings that couldpossibly come out in that
training session.
You just never know.
If you don't allow them thatopportunity to you know, maybe
it's a particular skill ondifficult conversations and
maybe a CNA would say, Hey, hada tough one with a family the
(22:10):
other day.
I'd like to share the situationwith you.
I think I could have done thisdifferently.
What do you suggest?
So being a leader, yes, you'vegotta have your teaching moments
and that's where it's a littlebit one way, but always pause
and ask for questions or youcould do something as simple as
posing a question on a slide andhave, you know, if they're set
(22:30):
up in small table groups, have'em discuss at their table and
then go around and take.
The best idea from each table.
But it has gotta becollaborative.
It's gotta be interactive oryou're gonna lose them.
the more engaging you can makeit and the more you can allow
them to have a voice in thesession, all the better.
Erin (22:44):
It's very true.
I have, I.
Seeing that and learning and andbeing investing.
In my own speaking, I justwanted to say like we talk about
the pause.
But the pause is a littleuncomfortable, especially when
you're uncomfortable, especiallywhen you're up on the stage,
(23:04):
like, or not even on the stageor the top of the room and
you're asking a question andthere's silence and you're just
standing up there and nobody'ssharing or.
You are just scared to pause.
Yes, because there's power inthe pause.
And so if you just pause, it'slike, oh my God, what do I do?
(23:28):
Nobody's talking, what do I do?
Ah, and then sometimes you losecontrol of the room too, because
people just wanna talk and talkand talk.
But there's value in that too,if you can tie it all together.
Jeannie (23:40):
Yeah, it, oh my gosh,
I've been in that situation
before.
Especially in the virtual world.
If you're doing virtual trainingand you have half the folks with
their camera on and half withthe camera off, we have no idea
what they're doing when thatcamera's off.
So when you do that pause, itcan seem like an eternity.
But if you think about itsometimes, whatever question
(24:02):
you're posing.
Might put them on the spot.
And what I mean by that, maybeit's a very good question.
That's very intriguing.
And they might need that pauseand that moment to let it
register in their head and thinkabout it.
Um, we feel, or I should speakfor myself on this, I feel
pressured at times becauseeverything is like rush, rush,
rush, get it done fast in themoment.
Let's move on, let's move on,let's move on.
(24:23):
But there's sometimes you dohave to take that pause and let
people digest the informationand think about it more, then
they can come back and have ananswer.
Sometimes you pause and they'restill just looking like deer in
headlights or very, very quiet.
And that's okay.
Maybe in the moment, rephrasethe question or you answer it
yourself, and that could get theball rolling with some great
discussion.
Erin (24:43):
Yeah, I heard one last
point on the pause here, but
this made perfect sense to me.
If we don't pause.
And even in our own, speaking,we're going to fill the time
with filler words.
Jeannie (25:03):
Yes.
Erin (25:04):
And so if you were leading
a training session in your
community, you're the executivedirector, you're the director of
nursing or whatever, and you'renot comfortable with the pause,
or even when you're thinking,you don't want people to know
that you're thinking.
And so you wanna fill the pauseor you fill the pause with,
yeah.
That pause just took all yourcredibility away.
Jeannie (25:22):
Yeah.
Erin (25:23):
Because you filled it with
filler words.
Jeannie (25:25):
Yep.
Erin (25:27):
Whereas if it was just
silence, you are creating
anticipation, and all of asudden you've got people's
attention and you have to becomfortable with that.
Jeannie (25:39):
Yep.
and I think that goes back topreparation and practice as a
leader, as a facilitator, whenyou are putting together your
training session and you'regonna pose those questions.
Practice it and practice thatpause.
And even if you have your phonenext to you and you set a timer
for five seconds, which againcan seem like an eternity if you
(25:59):
practice and get in the comfortof that, it won't be so daunting
when you're in the moment.
Yeah.
Erin (26:05):
Okay, perfect segue
because there is something that
I trained every year in Januarywhen I was inside of the
community, I trained on theemotional bank account every
year.
Every year in January, the startof the year, I got the emotional
bank account training out andstarted talking about it.
(26:27):
It was and is still a huge partof my life.
The beginning of my leadershipcareer as an executive director,
I was very, very young.
I had never managed anyone, andwhen I got promoted.
There was a big transition andthen I didn't from a regional
perspective, and I didn't haveanyone for six months, and that
(26:49):
was a very challenging time forme.
The first book I read was SevenHabits of Highly Effective
People, and there are lots ofthings about that book that take
away, but the two top things,the two top things were the
emotional bank account and thinkwin-win.
Everything I did inside of acommunity was always through the
(27:12):
lens of the emotional bankaccount and think win-win, even
in a negative situation where ifa resident had to move out I had
to figure out what the win was.
I had to find out what a win-winwas, and this is where those
essential soft skills are reallyimportant because there's not a
hard win when somebody has tomove out.
Jeannie (27:33):
There is
Erin (27:34):
not a hard win, but there
are small emotional wins that
someone like me can give inthose hard times, and that is
where the win-win quadrant comesin, which has been a huge
component of my success.
Fast forward to where my kidsare in school and they're
(27:54):
elementary school.
It is a seven Habits Leadershipschool.
Jeannie (27:58):
Ah, leader.
Erin (27:59):
Love it.
And it's a public school.
It's not even a private school,but there's the seven habits,
which are now eight habits.
When it's sharpen the saw that Ithink is the, or find your
voice.
Find, yep.
That's the, that's the new one.
And so every time I go in there,I see the seven habits.
You know, the power of yet, likeI walk in the school and I'm
just like, man, this is soinspiring.
(28:21):
You know?
And my kids are, you know, I'mtalking to my kids about think
with the end in mind, or youknow, is this proactive or is
this reactive?
so the fact that I even get tohave this conversation with you
is really exciting to me.
Oh, thank you.
So you are an expert in thisbecause you've trained on it for
so long.
Jeannie (28:42):
Yeah.
With the school situation.
So my daughter is a competitiveswimmer and she swam for a club.
Club for most of her career.
And then now she's on the highschool swim team.
But back in our club days, wewould swim in different, schools
across the typically Nebraska,Iowa area and we were in Iowa
and we walk into this highschool, and this is literally,
(29:02):
I'm not kidding you, within thefirst month that I started at
Franklin Covey and I walk in andit was a seven habits school and
I saw all the seven habitsposted on the wall.
And I remember I took a pictureof it and I put it on LinkedIn.
I was like, so.
Proud and so inspired to seethat.
Seven Habits, I love that it'sso prevalent, not only in the
workplace, but we're, you know,they start'em young at Franklin
(29:23):
Cubby get that, they'll getthose timeless principles in
their hands at a young age.
Because seven habits, some of itmay seem like very common sense
to you, however, you askyourself, is it common practice?
And the answer is typically no.
It's something I first wasexposed to when I was in college
and was asked to read the book.
(29:43):
Fast forward many years when Ilanded at Franklin Covey and we
had the CHRO of the company comein and teach it because he was
so passionate about the sevenhabits, we spent two full days
and nobody does that anymore.
Two full days and seven habitstraining and Franklin Cubby, the
way I like to describe it, theyuse the seven habits as their
operating system.
(30:04):
And that's why, you'reonboarding the first two days
you go through seven habitsbecause that's just the language
they speak and that's how theyoperate.
And it's so prevalent andessential if you.
Apply it in the working world,especially in senior living
organizations, there's just, somuch of the learnings, within
that book, is applicable to thatworld.
And, and I'm, I'm digressing,and I know you talked about the
(30:25):
emotional bank account, andthat's a big part of the seven
habits you know, it's really ametaphor for the amount of trust
that exists in relationships,especially between a leader and
their direct reports.
Especially in the world ofsenior living between, the
nurses, the CNAs, and thefamilies and the actual
residents.
So, the way I like to imagine itis, you know, think of any
(30:48):
personal relationship that youhave, any human relationship
that you have, and you think ofit as a bank account.
And just like your checking orsavings account, you make
deposits.
You make withdrawals.
Those deposits help build trust,build goodwill, and emotional
safety.
And again, those are threethings that are just pillars or
nec necessities in the seniorliving organization.
(31:08):
And then on the flip side, whenyou're making withdraws, that
erodes trust.
It erodes your connection withthe families, with the
residents, with your coworkersand your credibility.
Much like when we talkedearlier, the pausing and using
filler words that makes yourcredibility head south.
What I appreciate about theemotional bank account,
especially if you tie it back tohaving these tough
conversations, which we all do,no matter what industry you're
(31:30):
in, when your account is full,people are more than likely to
give you the benefit of thedoubt.
They're more likely to hear youout, and they're more likely to
really engage with you in aconstructive manner.
And so the more things you cando to add to that bank account,
the better.
Make regular deposits, thingsthat you can do, consistently
show respect to absolutelyeveryone around you.
(31:54):
A big one that I love is listen,without fixing, just be there.
Just listen.
Let them talk.
That's all you need to do.
And then another big one,especially as a leader, any
commitment you make, make sureyou follow through.
'cause that's, that's just aninstant way to lose credibility.
Erin (32:08):
It's, again, it's common
sense, but not common practice,
which is really, reallyimportant.
And honestly, if you are aleader inside of a community or
even in the regional directorrole, sure it is.
So important to make this apriority.
Simple things about rememberingsomething, writing it down.
(32:31):
Everybody uses the same exampleof writing a thank you note, and
sometimes I roll my eyes,
Jeannie (32:37):
other
Erin (32:37):
Yes.
Jeannie (32:38):
I'm a huge, I have a
stack next to me.
Yes.
I write, I, I'm not kidding you.
I write out several a day.
Just, yeah.
It's a lost art.
And it's impactful.
Erin (32:46):
It is impactful.
Even though people say, youknow, oh, you, how many times do
you hear that, that it's a lostart?
But I actually, I was, the otherday, I found notes from
residents at my first communityand I'm like, oh my God, how
thankful I am that I have these,or I think about.
(33:06):
I had one regional director whohandwrote me notes of what he
noticed about me during the lathe previous visit.
And yes.
Did the, pessimist version ofme, like, roll my eyes and be
like, oh gosh.
But did it make an impactinside?
(33:28):
Yes, it did.
Absolutely it did.
Jeannie (33:30):
Let me guess, you still
have those notes, correct?
Yes.
Erin (33:32):
And so.
Oh, he just did that becauseeverybody says to do thank you
notes, but what was writteninside of it was very specific.
Jeannie (33:44):
Yep.
Love it.
I
Erin (33:45):
I'm a fan.
Jeannie (33:46):
You've won me over on
that.
Erin (33:47):
Yeah.
It's a huge fan.
I mean, a huge moment.
And so the think win-win, youknow, we tie it back to.
What we talked about earlier,which is those essential skills,
and it's just really a pointthat I want to drive home
because think win-win isthinking with the end in mind is
(34:08):
thinking, is adding depositsinto the emotional bank account
and for all leaders.
It doesn't matter if it's in aresident, a family, any of the
key stakeholders, an associatethere are going to come times
where you miss the mark.
Yeah.
Where you are not the bestversion of yourself and where we
(34:30):
as humans fail some way, youknow, or something happens
outside of our control and weare faced with a crisis.
And the emotional bank accountthat you did proactively Yep.
For years, months, or weeksbefore becomes your buffer zone.
(34:51):
Absolutely.
And if we don't handle everytough conversation with
thinking, win-win, if you do notbe proactive and think with the
end in mind.
And think about how can I makethis a win-win?
'cause this is really hard.
How do I make this a win-win?
And it's not a hard win-win.
(35:13):
A soft win-win is still more,almost could be more valuable
than walking away with a betteroutcome than what's possible.
anytime I had to have adiscussion about a resident
moving out and I worked inAlabama, and that conversation
happened a lot based on ourregs.
(35:34):
Whether it was moving from al tomemory care, memory care, to
skilled, whatever it was, everytime I thought about the last
time they walked out of ourcommunity.
How can I end this conversationwhere I intentionally am
leaving, I don't know, making animpact in a positive way, in a
really tough conversation,
Jeannie (35:55):
the moving out is
probably one of the toughest
examples.
And exactly what you said, Erin,during their time within the
community, as long as you arecontinually making those
deposits, it's gonna build trustwith them.
They're gonna understand that,you know what, Erin, more than
likely this is outta yourcontrol.
We can only control what we cancontrol.
(36:15):
And if you have those.
Deposits that are continuallybuilding up.
Yes, they're probably not gonnabe happy.
Yes, it's gonna be a toughexperience for them, but they
know you.
They know who you are.
They know how you've been up tothat point and they're like, you
know what, Erin's been great.
She, the time that I was here,she's made an incredible
(36:36):
experience for me.
Mm-hmm.
So many times,
Erin (36:39):
yeah.
I think we try too hard again,to avoid.
Those type of conversations oravoid, hopefully we just can
ignore things and they don't andthey go away, but they're not,
they're just gonna become worse.
But if we can literally thinkemotional, making count in the
good times, think win-win allthe times, but especially in the
(37:00):
hard times, a lot of what is, isfrustrating us and making us
feel tired and constantlyfailing will go away.
It really does take time.
Okay.
As we wrap this up, I want youto, leave us with something that
(37:22):
you wanna say that maybe wehaven't gotten to or something
positive patterns that you see,close us out on a high note.
Jeannie (37:31):
Oh, sure thing.
So I'm gonna s steal this fromNike.
My advice, we talked a lot aboutdifficult conversations.
My advice is just to do it.
Yeah.
If you remember that statistic Ishared in the opening, 70% of
employees out there are avoidingdifficult conversations.
But guess what?
However, those that actually.
(37:51):
Have the courage, take theplunge and have that difficult
conversation.
76% of them are satisfied withthe outcome.
So if you think about that,three quarters of the folks out
there that actually go throughwith the conversations are happy
with the outcome.
So my best piece of advice, gointo that conversation prepared.
Go in ensuring it's going to bea two-way collaborative
(38:13):
conversation, and you shouldexpect yourself to be a part of
that 76%.
Absolutely.
Erin (38:19):
People just want respect.
People wanna be seen.
Jeannie (38:22):
Yep.
Erin (38:22):
They wanna be heard and
they wanna feel valued.
And you can do that even in thehard conversations for sure.
Very good.
Alright, so tell us, how do theyget in touch with you if you, if
they want to.
Jeannie (38:34):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
So, my name's Jeanie Frazier andmy company's name is Learning
Jeanie.
So I had a little play on myname, which has been a lot of
fun.
Best way to learn more about myservices and what I provide, you
can go to my website, which iswww.learninggenie.com, and
Jeanie spelled JEA.
NIE.
(38:54):
I always welcome conversationseven if it's just to pick my
brain or run something by me, Ialways welcome that.
And so you can email me at anytime at Learning
genie@outlook.com.
Erin (39:06):
Thank you for your wisdom
today.
Really appreciate that.
Jeannie (39:09):
You for this
opportunity.
You're, you're awesome.
This was a lot of fun.
Erin (39:13):
Alright.
And as always, for my listeners,aspire for more for you.
When you own your story, you cancreate your future.