When the harsh realities of racism and gun violence collide, the result can be life altering. This week's guest, Dr. Brian Williams, a trauma surgeon turned congressional candidate, opens up about one such pivotal night that altered his trajectory: the July 7, 2016 Dallas protest shooting. Amid the chaos of that evening, Dr. Williams found his voice in advocacy, pushing for societal healing and unity in the face of discrimination and tragedy. As we listen to his journey, you'll feel the weight of history and the urgency of his mission to serve a nation, especially as he reflects on his family's military legacy and the racial barriers they've endured.
Our conversation with Dr. Williams doesn't shy away from the uncomfortable truths that lay at the intersection of professional obligation and racial identity. His impromptu call for unity, born from the depths of despair and hope after the Dallas shooting, serves as a powerful reminder of the work needed to forge safer communities. Dr. Williams's experience as a Black man in America and his commitment to ending violence extend into our discussion on the role of empathy and storytelling. It's an exploration of how these tools can lead to profound social change and the importance of acknowledging our shared humanity to overcome health disparities and systemic injustice.
By the end of our dialogue, it's evident that Dr. Williams is not only a physician committed to saving lives but also a visionary aiming to reshape the fabric of our society. He shares insights from his book, "The Bodies Keep Coming" and discusses his aspirations for Congress—where his unique perspective as a trauma surgeon, veteran, and Black American can influence policy for the betterment of all. This episode is an invitation to recognize the potential for change that each of us holds and the critical impact our individual actions can have on the collective journey toward equity and justice. Join us for this powerful episode, and leave with a renewed understanding of the complexities of race, gun violence, and the potential for healing in America.
The Bodies Keep Coming: Dispatches From a Black Trauma Surgeon on Racism, Violence, and How We Heal
https://brianwilliamsmd.com/
https://drbrianwilliamsforcongress.com/
If you enjoyed this show, please leave a positive review and share with your friends. Thank you! Osha
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Osha Hayden (00:11):
I think we're all aware of the racism here in
America, but what we don't seeare the bodies riddled with
gunshot wounds who arrive in thetrauma centers across our
country.
What we don't know is what it'slike to try to save the lives
of these mostly young black men,and what is hard to imagine is
(00:31):
what it is like for a blacktrauma surgeon to work all night
to try to save the lives ofmultiple police officers who
were shot by a black man at anotherwise peaceful Black Lives
Matter demonstration.
Dr Brian Williams, the surgeonwho worked to save the police
officers who were shot on 7-7 inDallas, is with us today to
(00:55):
talk about how we can addressthe gun violence epidemic,
health inequity and structuralracism that keeps the bodies
coming to trauma centers acrossthe US.
Dr Brian H Williams is an AirForce Academy alumnus, a
Harvard-trained surgeon, aformer congressional health
(01:16):
policy advisor and a nationallyrecognized leader at the
intersection of public policyand structural racism, gun
violence and health equity.
He has treated gun violencevictims for more than two
decades.
Dr Williams has served as aRobert Wood Johnson Foundation
congressional health policyfellow at the National Academy
(01:38):
of Medicine and as a trauma andacute care surgeon at UT
Southwestern Medical Center andat the University of Chicago
Medicine.
He is the author of the BodiesKeep Coming Dispatches from a
Black Trauma Surgeon on Racism,violence and how we Heal.
(01:59):
He is currently running for theUS Congress in the state of
Texas.
Welcome to the show, dr BrianWilliams.
Dr. Brian Williams (02:07):
Oh sure, Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Osha Hayden (02:10):
So I just wanted to start out with this piece of
information.
People may not know about you,but you belong to an long,
unbroken line of Williams menwho've served in the United
States Air Force and yet who'vebeen tormented by racist
treatment in the same countrythat they've served you.
Your father, your grandfatherand your great-grandfather have
(02:35):
all served in the Air Force, sowhat is that like to serve your
country and then yet not receiveequal treatment?
Dr. Brian Williams (02:45):
Yeah, I come from a long line of veterans
and we trace our militaryservice going all the way back
to the Civil War, so somewherein the Army, then in the Air
Force after World War II.
And I think just to speak tothis legacy of service within my
family recognizing andaccepting that although our
country is imperfect in manyways when it comes to how we
(03:06):
deal with a legacy of racism,that we still show up and try to
push America to manifest theseideals which we are professed in
the Constitution about life,liberty and the pursuit of
happiness.
So, despite the maltreatment,the racist treatment, we as
Williams service members arestill committed to do our part
(03:27):
to manifest that reality for thefuture generations.
We can't stop, but we continueto do that work and I feel very
proud of the legacy that myfamily has had in service to
this country.
Osha Hayden (03:38):
And thank you for your service to this country.
So let's just get right into7-7, that really eventful day,
because that was a Talk aboutcognitive dissonance to be in a
situation like that.
What do you want to tell usabout that day?
Dr. Brian Williams (03:56):
I still think about July 7, 2016 every
day.
It's just always with me.
For context, we had 14 policeofficers that were ambushed by
an Army veteran who was thereprotesting the deaths of Black
men after routine policeencounters.
And if you go back to that time, oh sure that was in the days
after Alton Strulling was shotand killed in Baton Rouge,
(04:19):
louisiana, and Philando Castilein Minnesota.
If you recall, his death waslive streamed on Facebook by his
girlfriend, who was in the seatof the car next to him, pulled
over during routine stop and,within 20 seconds of being
pulled over, had multiplegunshot wounds to the chest,
several of which pierced hisheart.
On July 7, there were protestsscheduled all around the country
(04:40):
to bring awareness to this, andthat night, the one in Dallas
became deadly.
It was a peaceful protest upuntil the end, when this sniper
opened fire on these policeofficers who were providing
security for the event.
Seven of the officers werebrought to the hospital where I
was working that night, andthree of whom had critical
injuries and died from theirwounds.
And at the end, I did somethingI've done many times, which is
(05:03):
change out of bloody scrubs, puton clean scrubs and deliver
this devastating news to familymembers about the death of
someone they care about andafterwards.
That was a transformativemoment for me and I still think
about it to this day.
But it set me down on a path ofwhere I could do more to
contribute to the healing of ourcommunity and the country.
Osha Hayden (05:24):
And you were called to appear on a news conference
about that event and at firstyou didn't want to go.
You were really hesitant to goand be there.
So do you want to tell us alittle bit about why you didn't
want to go really?
And how did that conference andthe comments that you made
(05:45):
there, how did that changeeverything?
Dr. Brian Williams (05:48):
To say I was hesitant to attend this press
conference four days aftershooting is being generous.
I was adamant that I would notattend and it was my wife who
convinced me otherwise.
But I didn't want to go to thisconference because one, this
was a traumatic night for me.
Osha and I was still in thenight in my head nonstop and I
did not want to be in front ofcameras and microphones and
(06:10):
strangers reliving that event.
Two, I felt that there wereothers there that could talk
about this, because you may haveseen these press conferences
after a mass shooting.
They follow a certain script thenumber of shots, the number of
dead but the hospital responsewas and I didn't feel like they
needed to have me there to dothat.
It was my wife.
She was adamant, like you know.
(06:31):
Brian, you have to go becausethe country needs to see that
there was a black surgeon theretrying to save these police
officers Because, as youmentioned before, it was a black
sniper that an ambushed whitepolice officers and, just to be
clear, not all the policeofficers were white, but he was
there to shoot white policeofficers.
(06:51):
That was his intent and in thecountry there was just this
rhetoric.
Black lives matter.
All lives matter.
Blue lives matter.
And I had tuned out from allthat and my wife brought me back
in to it and said you need tohave a presence there, even if
you don't speak.
You just need to show up thereso people can see that you were
there trying to do the rightthing.
Osha Hayden (07:11):
And so the comments that you made when you went
surprised you.
Dr. Brian Williams (07:15):
Oh yeah, I had no intent to speak, I had no
speaking part, but as the pressconference progressed, what was
unsaid really didn't sit wellwith me and I had this internal
conflict like, should I saysomething?
I'm knowing enough?
I did, there would be blowback,I would lose friends and my
colleagues may not beappreciative of what I said, but
(07:37):
I felt if I didn't saysomething it would never happen
again and there are people whowould never have the opportunity
to speak up about what Ithought we should be talking
about escalating gun violence,the ongoing deaths of black men
after routine police encounters,this lack of open and honest
and difficult discussions aboutthe legacy of racism in our
(07:59):
country.
This is an opportunity to dosomething about that as a path
forward towards healing.
Microphone came to me and I justI said these words, unscripted,
unplanned, but they resonated.
And even to this day, yearslater, people come up to me and
I'll say, hey, I remember justwatching your press conference
that day and I have to remindthem it wasn't my press
(08:21):
conference.
This was an hour pressconference where seven people
spoke, but what people rememberis the two minutes where I made
this impromptu statement.
I think it just speaks to allof us.
We all can make a difference ifwe show up, they're willing to
speak up Things that matter.
Osha Hayden (08:36):
And do you want to tell us about what you said or
direct people to go find it on?
Dr. Brian Williams (08:43):
I guess one place you can go to watch the
clip is if you go to my website,Brian Williams md.
com, and there's the media tabwhich will take you to the clip.
It's all over YouTube.
Essentially, I said Iunderstand the anger and the
frustration, but this killing,it has to stop.
We can't go around killing cops.
(09:03):
We can't go around killingblack men and forgetting about
them.
This violence is escalating andit will not end until we come
together and end all this.
So it was a recognition of howI felt as a black man in this
country, my experiences as atrauma surgeon, but also a real
call to unity in order to createcommunities that were safer for
(09:26):
us all.
And it was unscripted,unplanned, but it became a viral
media moment that still impactsmy life to this day.
Osha Hayden (09:35):
And you yourself have suffered from
discrimination.
You've had a number ofincidents where you weren't
doing anything and you ended upgetting pulled over and going
through the whole rigmarold.
You want to talk a little bitabout some of them.
One was right outside your AirForce base as you were serving
the United States.
Dr. Brian Williams (09:52):
I was taught from a very young age by my
parents how I'm supposed tobehave.
If I were pulled over by a cop,this could be a
life-threatening encounter.
Many people may not think of itthat way, but I can now
recognize that that can be true,particularly for black men in
this country, and I describedevents in the book that happened
decades ago where I've beenpulled over.
The routine stops and for me,I'm not worried if I'm going to
(10:15):
get a ticket or not.
I'm worried if I'm going tocome out of this encounter alive
or not.
And I think this would resonateduring the press conference is
that I injected my personalexperiences into what I was
saying Again, unplanned, butpeople saw that we all have this
shared humanity and that iswhat resonated.
But I don't say that because Iwant pity or to be treated
(10:37):
differently.
It's just there's the realityof the world we live in.
So for us to move forward, wehave to acknowledge that, so
that we all have an opportunityto thrive.
So that's what I did by sharingmy stories Like here's what's
happened to me.
You may not believe it couldhappen to me, but it has.
Many times.
I don't let this hold me back.
I use this as a means to bridgecommunity and create a world
(10:58):
where we all feel safe and canthrive.
Osha Hayden (11:01):
Right.
That is very important, I think, for people to understand.
They think, oh well, it can'thappen here.
Well, yes, it does.
It does happen all the time andthat's important to acknowledge
.
And now I think we have seen somany examples of innocent black
men being pulled over andmurdered, and even in front of
(11:25):
our eyes, and I think peoplehave awakened now to what it is
really like to be black inAmerica, to be black while
driving or, you know, standingon the street or anything else.
And you have decided, aftertrying to patch up all these
hundreds or thousands of youngbeautiful in their prime black
(11:47):
bodies, you have decided to doeverything in your power to
address the gun violence and theracism and the structural
racism that keeps these thingsin continuity, just continuing
and continuing.
So do you want to talk a littlebit about that and your
campaign now, what it is thatyou're trying to do to change
(12:09):
this reality that I think is soupsetting for so many people?
Dr. Brian Williams (12:14):
Absolutely, osha.
As you alluded to, I am nowrunning for Congress and, if
elected, I'd be the first traumasurgeon elected to Congress.
I'd also be the first blackdoctor who could vote in
Congress, so this could be anhistoric election.
But what drove me to this isjust my history of public
service as an Air Force veteranand as a doctor and just seeing
(12:39):
the impact of gun violence onindividuals and families and
communities.
And what can I do to be part ofsystemic change?
Right Within the hospital Ihave great one-on-one
interactions with patients and Ican impact a couple hundred per
year.
But as a member of Congress,that impact is much greater, to
(12:59):
the tunes of hundreds ofthousands of millions per year,
and to take my experience andbring that into Congress is
where I hope to make a muchbigger difference to keep us all
safe.
But it's using gun violence as ameans to address these other
issues, and that's what in thebook I wanted to address.
Bigger issues, right, there arestructural racism, our
(13:23):
democracy, and by pulling you inI wanted to hook you in to the
story.
There's a lot of storytellingand personal narrative so that
you're enveloped in the story,but along the way, osha, we're
going to learn about these other, much bigger issues and, most
importantly, what's the pathtowards healing like?
How can we be part of thesolution?
(13:44):
Because, in the end, when we'retalking about all this heavy
stuff, there is hope.
We all can make a difference.
And that is the end point ofthe book is to call to action,
to get people to be part of thesolution, to create a better
world.
Osha Hayden (13:58):
And I think that is what my listeners want, is to
know what they can do to changethis, because it's just
heartbreaking.
Well, let's go to a short breakand we'll be right back in just
a moment with Dr Brian HWilliams.
Stay tuned, in case you're justjoining us, this is Aspire,
(14:29):
with Osha Art, nature, humanity,and I'm your host, Osha Hayden,
and I am here with Dr Brian HWilliams, a trauma surgeon who
is also running for US Congress.
We're talking about racism,structural racism, gun violence
and how to change these things,how to change these inequities,
(14:54):
moving forward so that we couldall come together and work
together and express ourselvesin the way that we are here to
do.
We were talking about theprotests that happened and your
response as a surgeon, becauseyou were the one who was there
patching up seven of thosepolice officers who were shot on
(15:15):
the night of 7-7 in Dallas.
We were talking about yourjourney to address that
structural racism and gunviolence and inequity.
In your run for the US Congress, you say, "I was a veteran
surgeon and scholar strugglingwith what it meant to be black
(15:37):
and routinely deal with theworst kinds of violence
perpetrated against my people.
What you're talking about isthe systemic and structural
racism that began with slaveryand continues to this day.
Can you talk about the barrierbetween your personal identity
as a black man and yourprofessional identity as a black
doctor when you were serving asa doctor?
Dr. Brian Williams (16:00):
Oh sure, I was masterful at segregating
those parts of my life from eachother and just keeping these
strict walls when I was at workas a doctor, just getting my job
done as a doctor and separatingthat from the reality I lived
as a black man in this countryand trying not to let those two
intertwine.
I wanted to be successful atwork.
(16:22):
I didn't want to do or sayanything that would maybe
interfere with my professionalprogress, or lose support of my
colleagues, but the reality isthat's just not a way to live.
We should not have to trade ourauthenticity for acceptance,
which is what I had done and Irealized that prevented me from
having genuine connections witha lot of people as a result,
(16:45):
despite my outward success.
Right, we can do this, I thinkyou want to say you can be very
successful at what you do, evenif you're not bringing your
authentic self to work every day.
And that's how I had lived.
I didn't want to talk aboutgetting pulled over by police
officers and fearing for my life, or how many times I've been
called the N word for no goodreason, or even at work in the
hospital.
(17:05):
But now I realize that I couldhave been a much better doctor,
a much better colleague, a muchbetter teacher if I had embraced
all of that and not tried tohide it.
And that's the life I'm livingnow, and it's also part of the
reason why you know what I feellike.
I would be a good congressmanbecause of my experience in the
military and in medicine andhaving served.
(17:27):
But also we're speaking topeople with lived experiences
that are willing to serve onbehalf of the country and to
bring that reality to Congress.
I think I will be.
Actually, I know, no doubt,that would make me an effective
member of Congress in service tothe community that I'm trying
to uplift.
Osha Hayden (17:45):
I want to come back to your book for a moment, The
bodies Keep Coming.
I have to say I read the bookand it is an excellent book and
it does really pull you in andgive you a behind the scenes
view of what it's like to be atrauma surgeon and I think also
the extent of the violencethat's going on, the frequency
(18:09):
of young black bodies beingcarted into the emergency room
with gunshot wounds.
So The Bodies Keep Coming, byBrian H Williams MD.
I think you might want to readit.
It's a really good book and,though it deals with a difficult
subject, it also talks aboutthat structural violence.
(18:29):
It weaves those things into thestory and could you talk a
little bit about that?
I mean, some of the statisticsthat you quote in the book
really are just astounding.
Dr. Brian Williams (18:42):
Thank you, osha.
I really wanted this to be anenjoyable read by hooking onto
that part of you that connectsyou to our shared humanity and
pull you into the story.
So using a lot of personalnarrative to pull you along the
story, but also wanted to teachwithout sounding like I was
lecturing you as well.
(19:02):
So there's a personal narrative, there are the what's happening
while I'm in the hospital, butweaving in the statistics so you
can learn some things about howstructural racism impacts
pretty much every facet of oursociety, like one where I talked
about that there are less blackmen entering medical school now
than there were back in the 70s.
You know we're talking abouttwo generations later.
(19:23):
There are less of us going intomedicine than there were back
then.
Talk about how there's so muchpreventable death, particularly
in communities of color, due tostructures that have been put in
place to segregate people.
You know you put communities ofblack residents adjacent to a
municipal dump or factories.
You can imagine that theirhealth outcomes would be worse,
(19:46):
and we do have the evidence thatshows that that is the case.
So I want to show really how wecan fix that so that everyone
can thrive.
So looking at how thestructures that have been put in
place need to be removed, butalso by radically reinvesting in
these communities.
So I don't want to bore youwith all of that reality, but to
pull you in with the story andthen interweave all of the
(20:08):
information along the way.
Hopefully, at the end you willsee things differently, but also
you will know you're called todo something differently after
reading the book.
Osha Hayden (20:18):
And there is a lot that can be done.
There's a ton that can be done.
I mean, we could start with gunviolence.
Isn't there a bill right nowthat the Democrats brought
forward to address gun violenceand the very next day it was
shot down by the Republicans?
Do you want to talk about thata little bit?
Dr. Brian Williams (20:37):
Yes, there was recently a bill about
reinstating the assault weaponsban and that did not go anywhere
due to Republican opposition.
But we're not without hope,Osha.
Last year we passed theBipartisan Save Our Communities
Act, which was the mostsignificant gun safety bill in a
generation, and at the time Iwas actually serving as a health
(20:59):
policy advisor in Congress toSenator Chris Murphy, who was
the lead sponsor of that bill.
But what it shows is that wecan do big things to reduce
death due to gun violence in abipartisan way that will benefit
all Americans.
So we decided to build uponthat work.
So sometimes they seem hopeless, but we are not without hope,
(21:20):
we are not without power, and aslong as we continue to do the
work, we can make this countrysafer for the next generation so
that we're all not fearful ofbeing injured or killed due to
gun violence.
Osha Hayden (21:33):
And it's kind of hard to understand what the
motivation would be of someonewho wants to block legislation
that would prevent these deathsfrom gun violence.
Well, other than big money, Isuppose.
Dr. Brian Williams (21:50):
As someone who has had to pronounce too
many children dead on arrival,have had to deliver news to too
many parents about the deaths ofsomeone they care about, as
someone who, myself, has lostfamily members to gun violence,
and as a veteran who's trainedon these weapons, it's
unfathomable that our electedleaders do not do more to keep
us safe from gun violence.
Especially when a majority ofAmericans agree that there are
(22:12):
things that we can do to reducefirearm related injuries and can
and should do, I should say, toreduce death and injury due to
firearms.
It's just a small group ofelected leaders that continue to
block that.
So we, with our power ascitizens, just send the right
leaders to Congress who willstep up to do what's right on
(22:32):
behalf of our children to keepthem safe.
And that's central to why I'mrunning to go there to do what I
can to join a growing majoritythat wants to do something to
promote gun safety in thiscountry and bring my perspective
to the table.
Osha Hayden (22:46):
I just want to mention that Kehinde Wiley art
exhibit came here to SanFrancisco, which is near where I
live, and I was able to go andsee it.
I was very fortunate to be ableto go and see that exhibit and
I don't know if everyonelistening is aware of Kehinde
Wiley, but he is a black painterand sculptor of an excellence
(23:07):
that is truly remarkable.
I walked out of the exhibit andI said "move over Michelangelo
and I am a Michelangelo fan.
But it was so powerful andthere were all these beautiful
young black bodies in the primeof their lives reclining and you
(23:27):
didn't know if they weresleeping or if they were dead,
but it was very, very powerful.
So if anyone has a chance tosee that, I'm just going to
throw in a little plug for ithere because I think it is very
impactful.
So why are academic medicalcenters generally located in
predominantly African Americanand poor urban areas?
Dr. Brian Williams (23:51):
Yeah, this is something that even with my
entire career in academia thatwas shocking to me, even though
intuitively I knew this.
But to really address thereality of why academic medical
centers were placed nearimpoverished, largely black
communities.
By intent for a couple ofreasons, Academic medical
(24:11):
centers train the nextgeneration of students and
doctors, so you have a communitythat can't afford health care,
but they get to go to thesecenters where young doctors and
young doctors in training get tolearn their craft.
They also are frequently usedin clinical trials and medical
experiments, and they don't evenconsent to it.
So academia has benefitedgreatly by this co-location,
(24:36):
which continues to this day, andI feel like we should be
teaching this to our medicalstudents, we should be teaching
this to our nursing students andanybody that works in health
care should understand this,just so that we recognize and be
more committed to the sharedhumanity of people that are
suffering and may have nowhereelse to go.
There's been great strides andadvances made in medicine as a
(24:58):
result.
As I've learned and taught, Ifeel I would have been better if
I could have known and taughtthis to the next generation as
well.
So let's not ignore the historyof how black people have been
exploited by academic medicalcenters over the centuries.
Osha Hayden (25:13):
So let's also talk about how your neighborhood can
influence your odds of seeingyour grandchildren grow up.
Dr. Brian Williams (25:20):
Now this is another talk about structural
racism.
We know that they talk aboutzip codes being more important
than your genetic code.
They can identify certain zipcodes that have the highest
endemic gun violence, highestrates of late stage cancers.
There are zip codes that aredefined as cradle to prison,
meaning that if you're born inthat zip code especially for
(25:42):
young black men in certain areasthen you will end up in the
criminal justice system at somepoint.
So that's a health care part inthe criminal justice part, but
also in these same zip codes.
Housing, poorly fundededucation, all these things
impact our health.
It's not just seeing a doctor,but the social determinants, the
non-hospital things that impactour health are tied to zip
(26:04):
codes and they can actually godown to streets right, not just
the zip code, but down theactual street level, the
granular data.
So that is where we need thepower of government, along with
private industry, communityactivists, community members who
live there, to come together toinstitute dramatic change, to
(26:27):
uplift these communities,especially involving those that
live there, because those thatare closest to the problem often
have the best solutions.
It's just that we need to askhow we can help and allow them
to take the lead to transformcommunities.
Osha Hayden (26:44):
And how much better would our world be if we had
the benefit of these peoplecontributing to society in the
ways that they are able to,instead of being kept down by
circumstances beyond theircontrol?
What kind of world would wehave if people were able to
(27:05):
contribute their gifts?
Dr. Brian Williams (27:07):
A healthy individual is a healthy
community, a healthy communityis a healthy society.
And just the humanisticargument should be enough.
Right, we should care enoughabout our neighbors to recognize
our shared humanity and wishthe best for everyone, even
complete strangers.
But I think it's not too muchof a leap to understand that
when you have more healthypeople, that that is a good
(27:30):
thing for the economy.
Right, people can work.
They're more productive.
The economy will be more robust.
That will lead to less crime,better education.
We have to understand how allof these are interconnected and
how health and health care iscentral to all that, so we can
commit and decide what is theminimum level of health we want
(27:52):
to expect from an individual,what is the minimum level of
health care we should provide.
The payoff for that is muchgreater over time than what we
will invest.
And that's what I just wantpeople to understand is that we
all have a role in creating aworld where each of us can
thrive and achieve our maximalpotential.
Osha Hayden (28:13):
Yes, on that beautiful, positive note, we're
going to go to a short break andwe'll be back in just a moment
with more with Dr Brian HWilliams.
Stay with us.
In case you're just joining us.
This is Aspire, with Osha (28:34):
art, nature, humanity, and I'm your
host, Osha Hayden, and I am herewith Dr Brian H Williams,
author of the Bodies Keep Comingand candidate for the US
Congress.
I think this is an interestingthing that we need to talk about
(28:55):
here, the role of guns inAmerica.
We're talking about gunviolence, but the actual role of
guns in America, where whitemen are considered patriots,
police are protectors and blackmen are criminals.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Dr. Brian Williams (29:13):
Absolutely, osha.
I wanted to highlight how we'regoing to talk about guns.
We have to talk about race,we're talking about gun violence
.
We have to talk about racismand how these are all
intertwined.
We cannot separate them.
So when you think about gunownership, which you just
mentioned, I think people thinkof you know, white men are
presented as patriots, police asprotectors, black men as
(29:37):
criminals, and what does thatmean for how we view gun
ownership?
But it's not only that.
Let's talk about gun violencevictims, like how do you decide
who is a victim, whom we shouldmourn and whom we should ignore?
And it's just not how we feelabout it, but it's statistics as
well.
For example, the Stand YourGround laws which allow people
(29:59):
to use deadly force with aweapon if they feel their lives
are threatened.
But looking at the data fromStanding Ground Laws, there are
definitely racial disparities.
So if the victim is black andthe shooter is white, that is
more often deemed a justifiablekilling.
(30:20):
When it's reversed, that is notthe case.
A Black shooting a white personis less frequently considered
justifiable, even if they claimthe same defense.
Stand your ground and I talkedabout this even more, that for
standing ground laws if you're awhite woman that shoots your
domestic abuser in self-defense,you are more likely to be
(30:41):
convicted than a white man whoshoots an unarmed person in
public.
So that just kind of shows theracial disparities within these
statistics.
But the whole point is I wantto shine a light on, if we're
going to move forward, we needto really talk about race in a
way that looks at the reality ofhow that impacts our day-to-day
(31:03):
lives, and violence is one ofthose issues where race cannot
be separated.
We need to talk about how thatinfluences ownership, deaths and
how we as a society view whoare the worthy victims and
owners of firearms.
Osha Hayden (31:19):
Because you can have a black man who legally
owns a gun but is treated very,very differently than a white
man who owns a gun.
Dr. Brian Williams (31:29):
Absolutely.
I mean, when I was younger, mymother would not allow me to
play with toy guns.
You cannot play with toy guns.
She knew that back in the 70s.
She knew that that could get mekilled.
And I think we've seen this now.
Tamir Rice had a toy gun and hewas shot and killed.
And there's people that areunarmed, that are unarmed black
men who were shot and killed.
(31:50):
So this is not a new phenomenon.
This has been going on for along time and black families and
black communities know thereality of this.
It's now becoming more broadlyunderstood and known and with
that knowledge we can makechange.
With that knowledge we can makechange so that we all feel safe
.
Osha Hayden (32:08):
So let's talk about some of the things because
you've been studying healthpolicy and structural racism and
all of these things andadvising people in Congress for
quite some time now, so you arean expert on all of this.
So what are some of the thingsthat you would like to do when
you get into Congress and I'mjust going to assume here that
(32:30):
you are getting into Congress,because we're going for
positivity here and we do needto come together to create a
better world.
Dr. Brian Williams (32:38):
I like that endorsement and the energy there
, Osha, I appreciate it.
For me, when you say expert,there is the lived experience
combined with the academicexperience of the issues that we
talked about, and, as a memberof Congress, I want to take all
of that to the table in aneffort to serve.
As a veteran, I internalizethis ethos of service before
(32:59):
self and that's what I want todo is put service before self as
a member of Congress and bybringing my experience and
expertise and these issues wetalked about how we can make the
country better.
Now, certainly not somethingthat one person can do alone,
but without that diversity ofvoices and experience at the
table, nothing will change.
(33:20):
And I say I'll be the firsttrauma surgeon in Congress,
joining others who are workingto reduce gun violence deaths in
this country.
I'd be the first black doctorto vote in Congress.
We've talked about health caredisparities.
There's only 19 doctors inCongress, but I'll also be a
black doctor who can talk aboutthis issue through the lens of
what do we do to ensure thebetter health outcomes for our
(33:44):
racial and ethnic minoritiesthat are frequently an
afterthought when we think aboutpolicies related to their
health.
That's the sort of experienceand ethic I want to take to
Congress to fight for everyone,because everyone benefits.
We can all benefit from thatand I feel very good about the
campaign right now and you canlearn more about the campaign at
Dr Brian Williams for Congress.
(34:05):
com.
Osha Hayden (34:07):
So and you can also go to Dr Brian Williams, md
.
com, correct?
Dr. Brian Williams (34:16):
Brian Williams MD.
com.
That was my first website forthe book and So for the book -
Brian Williams MDcom.
For Congress, Dr Brian Williamsfor Congress.
com.
Osha Hayden (34:32):
And again the book is called the Bodies Keep
Coming (34:35):
Dispatches from a Black Trauma Surgeon on Racism,
Violence and, (most importantly), how we Heal.
I think that is very important.
But let's talk a moment abouthow you've been on a long
journey with your wife and yourdaughter, and that is a
continuing journey, but what hasall of this been like on them?
(34:58):
I mean, what is the effect onthem?
Dr. Brian Williams (35:00):
My wife is clearly a central character in
the story and without herpresence there is no story,
right.
She is the voice of reason onthe pages in the book.
She's also the one there thatis nudging me in certain
directions at key moments oftransformation during the
journey, and she's been my bestsupporter, advisor, critic as
(35:22):
well.
I'm fortunate to have her in mylife and, as a result, we've
grown closer, we have muchdeeper discussions about a lot
of issues and I look forward tocontinuing this journey with her
.
My daughter, you know I see theworld through her eyes.
You know she's a different setof eyes to see through the world
with, and I'm more committed todoing what I can to ensure that
she has a better place toinherit and grow up within and
(35:46):
thrive.
So none of this we've talkedabout, all of this, is
meaningless without them.
Without them along on thejourney with me, this won't have
quite the same sort of impact.
So I feel very fortunate thatwe get to go on this journey
together.
Osha Hayden (36:00):
And so would you like to talk about what you
would like to do on day one whenyou get elected to the US
Congress?
Dr. Brian Williams (36:08):
Day one as a brand new member of Congress, I
feel my most important thing isto be a team player and do what
I can to contribute to themission, to serve the country.
So certainly getting touch withthe leadership of the caucus
and saying like, how can I help?
This is something I learned asan Air Force veteran is that the
(36:28):
best leaders know how tofollow, right.
You know how to follow and, asa brand new member of Congress,
despite my credentials, myrecord of service, I will still
be a new member of Congress,which requires more learning,
developing more relationshipsand doing what I can to
contribute to preserving ourdemocracy and ensuring that all
Americans can thrive.
Osha Hayden (36:49):
I think that America is really at a flex
point right now, where we wouldlike to have more leaders who
actually are committed toserving the people, to serving
us in Congress, rather than somewild and crazy agenda that
comes from somewhere else.
So, anyway, it has been anabsolute pleasure to have you on
(37:12):
the show today, Dr.
Williams, and again I want totalk about this book.
The bodies keep coming by BrianH Williams MD and you can go to
his website and check it out,and your website for your
congressional campaign is.
Will you say it again?
Dr. Brian Williams (37:29):
Dr Brian Williams for Congress.
com.
Dr Brian with an ".
Osha Hayden (37:35):
Thank you so much for joining us today, and I
think this is a very importantsubject that we've been talking
about, and it's very hopeful tosee someone like yourself who
has the experience that you have, who has a vision for the
future and knows how to get thatimplemented.
So good luck to you on yourcampaign.
Dr. Brian Williams (37:57):
Thank you very much.
Oh, it's been a greatconversation.
I like to offer one of yourlisteners a signed copy of the
book.
I will allow you to decide howto determine who that will be.
We can work that out after theshow sometime.
But I'll definitely send asigned copy of the book to one
of your loyal listeners.
Osha Hayden (38:12):
Oh, thank you so very much.
Someone is going to be very,very happy.
Well, so to my listeners, thankyou so much for listening and
have an inspired week and liveyour joy.
See you next time.
I think we're all aware of the racism here in
America, but what we don't seeare the bodies riddled with
gunshot wounds who arrive in thetrauma centers across our
country.
What we don't know is what it'slike to try to save the lives
of these mostly young black men,and what is hard to imagine is
(00:31):
what it is like for a blacktrauma surgeon to work all night
to try to save the lives ofmultiple police officers who
were shot by a black man at anotherwise peaceful Black Lives
Matter demonstration.
Dr Brian Williams, the surgeonwho worked to save the police
officers who were shot on 7-7 inDallas, is with us today to
(00:55):
talk about how we can addressthe gun violence epidemic,
health inequity and structuralracism that keeps the bodies
coming to trauma centers acrossthe US.
Dr Brian H Williams is an AirForce Academy alumnus, a
Harvard-trained surgeon, aformer congressional health
(01:16):
policy advisor and a nationallyrecognized leader at the
intersection of public policyand structural racism, gun
violence and health equity.
He has treated gun violencevictims for more than two
decades.
Dr Williams has served as aRobert Wood Johnson Foundation
congressional health policyfellow at the National Academy
(01:38):
of Medicine and as a trauma andacute care surgeon at UT
Southwestern Medical Center andat the University of Chicago
Medicine.
He is the author of the BodiesKeep Coming Dispatches from a
Black Trauma Surgeon on Racism,violence and how we Heal.
(01:59):
He is currently running for theUS Congress in the state of
Texas.
Welcome to the show, dr BrianWilliams.
Dr. Brian Williams (02:07):
Oh sure, Thank you very much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Osha Hayden (02:10):
So I just wanted to start out with this piece of
information.
People may not know about you,but you belong to an long,
unbroken line of Williams menwho've served in the United
States Air Force and yet who'vebeen tormented by racist
treatment in the same countrythat they've served you.
Your father, your grandfatherand your great-grandfather have
(02:35):
all served in the Air Force, sowhat is that like to serve your
country and then yet not receiveequal treatment?
Dr. Brian Williams (02:45):
Yeah, I come from a long line of veterans
and we trace our militaryservice going all the way back
to the Civil War, so somewherein the Army, then in the Air
Force after World War II.
And I think just to speak tothis legacy of service within my
family recognizing andaccepting that although our
country is imperfect in manyways when it comes to how we
(03:06):
deal with a legacy of racism,that we still show up and try to
push America to manifest theseideals which we are professed in
the Constitution about life,liberty and the pursuit of
happiness.
So, despite the maltreatment,the racist treatment, we as
Williams service members arestill committed to do our part
(03:27):
to manifest that reality for thefuture generations.
We can't stop, but we continueto do that work and I feel very
proud of the legacy that myfamily has had in service to
this country.
Osha Hayden (03:38):
And thank you for your service to this country.
So let's just get right into7-7, that really eventful day,
because that was a Talk aboutcognitive dissonance to be in a
situation like that.
What do you want to tell usabout that day?
Dr. Brian Williams (03:56):
I still think about July 7, 2016 every
day.
It's just always with me.
For context, we had 14 policeofficers that were ambushed by
an Army veteran who was thereprotesting the deaths of Black
men after routine policeencounters.
And if you go back to that time, oh sure that was in the days
after Alton Strulling was shotand killed in Baton Rouge,
(04:19):
louisiana, and Philando Castilein Minnesota.
If you recall, his death waslive streamed on Facebook by his
girlfriend, who was in the seatof the car next to him, pulled
over during routine stop and,within 20 seconds of being
pulled over, had multiplegunshot wounds to the chest,
several of which pierced hisheart.
On July 7, there were protestsscheduled all around the country
(04:40):
to bring awareness to this, andthat night, the one in Dallas
became deadly.
It was a peaceful protest upuntil the end, when this sniper
opened fire on these policeofficers who were providing
security for the event.
Seven of the officers werebrought to the hospital where I
was working that night, andthree of whom had critical
injuries and died from theirwounds.
And at the end, I did somethingI've done many times, which is
(05:03):
change out of bloody scrubs, puton clean scrubs and deliver
this devastating news to familymembers about the death of
someone they care about andafterwards.
That was a transformativemoment for me and I still think
about it to this day.
But it set me down on a path ofwhere I could do more to
contribute to the healing of ourcommunity and the country.
Osha Hayden (05:24):
And you were called to appear on a news conference
about that event and at firstyou didn't want to go.
You were really hesitant to goand be there.
So do you want to tell us alittle bit about why you didn't
want to go really?
And how did that conference andthe comments that you made
(05:45):
there, how did that changeeverything?
Dr. Brian Williams (05:48):
To say I was hesitant to attend this press
conference four days aftershooting is being generous.
I was adamant that I would notattend and it was my wife who
convinced me otherwise.
But I didn't want to go to thisconference because one, this
was a traumatic night for me.
Osha and I was still in thenight in my head nonstop and I
did not want to be in front ofcameras and microphones and
(06:10):
strangers reliving that event.
Two, I felt that there wereothers there that could talk
about this, because you may haveseen these press conferences
after a mass shooting.
They follow a certain script thenumber of shots, the number of
dead but the hospital responsewas and I didn't feel like they
needed to have me there to dothat.
It was my wife.
She was adamant, like you know.
(06:31):
Brian, you have to go becausethe country needs to see that
there was a black surgeon theretrying to save these police
officers Because, as youmentioned before, it was a black
sniper that an ambushed whitepolice officers and, just to be
clear, not all the policeofficers were white, but he was
there to shoot white policeofficers.
(06:51):
That was his intent and in thecountry there was just this
rhetoric.
Black lives matter.
All lives matter.
Blue lives matter.
And I had tuned out from allthat and my wife brought me back
in to it and said you need tohave a presence there, even if
you don't speak.
You just need to show up thereso people can see that you were
there trying to do the rightthing.
Osha Hayden (07:11):
And so the comments that you made when you went
surprised you.
Dr. Brian Williams (07:15):
Oh yeah, I had no intent to speak, I had no
speaking part, but as the pressconference progressed, what was
unsaid really didn't sit wellwith me and I had this internal
conflict like, should I saysomething?
I'm knowing enough?
I did, there would be blowback,I would lose friends and my
colleagues may not beappreciative of what I said, but
(07:37):
I felt if I didn't saysomething it would never happen
again and there are people whowould never have the opportunity
to speak up about what Ithought we should be talking
about escalating gun violence,the ongoing deaths of black men
after routine police encounters,this lack of open and honest
and difficult discussions aboutthe legacy of racism in our
(07:59):
country.
This is an opportunity to dosomething about that as a path
forward towards healing.
Microphone came to me and I justI said these words, unscripted,
unplanned, but they resonated.
And even to this day, yearslater, people come up to me and
I'll say, hey, I remember justwatching your press conference
that day and I have to remindthem it wasn't my press
(08:21):
conference.
This was an hour pressconference where seven people
spoke, but what people rememberis the two minutes where I made
this impromptu statement.
I think it just speaks to allof us.
We all can make a difference ifwe show up, they're willing to
speak up Things that matter.
Osha Hayden (08:36):
And do you want to tell us about what you said or
direct people to go find it on?
Dr. Brian Williams (08:43):
I guess one place you can go to watch the
clip is if you go to my website,Brian Williams md.
com, and there's the media tabwhich will take you to the clip.
It's all over YouTube.
Essentially, I said Iunderstand the anger and the
frustration, but this killing,it has to stop.
We can't go around killing cops.
(09:03):
We can't go around killingblack men and forgetting about
them.
This violence is escalating andit will not end until we come
together and end all this.
So it was a recognition of howI felt as a black man in this
country, my experiences as atrauma surgeon, but also a real
call to unity in order to createcommunities that were safer for
(09:26):
us all.
And it was unscripted,unplanned, but it became a viral
media moment that still impactsmy life to this day.
Osha Hayden (09:35):
And you yourself have suffered from
discrimination.
You've had a number ofincidents where you weren't
doing anything and you ended upgetting pulled over and going
through the whole rigmarold.
You want to talk a little bitabout some of them.
One was right outside your AirForce base as you were serving
the United States.
Dr. Brian Williams (09:52):
I was taught from a very young age by my
parents how I'm supposed tobehave.
If I were pulled over by a cop,this could be a
life-threatening encounter.
Many people may not think of itthat way, but I can now
recognize that that can be true,particularly for black men in
this country, and I describedevents in the book that happened
decades ago where I've beenpulled over.
The routine stops and for me,I'm not worried if I'm going to
(10:15):
get a ticket or not.
I'm worried if I'm going tocome out of this encounter alive
or not.
And I think this would resonateduring the press conference is
that I injected my personalexperiences into what I was
saying Again, unplanned, butpeople saw that we all have this
shared humanity and that iswhat resonated.
But I don't say that because Iwant pity or to be treated
(10:37):
differently.
It's just there's the realityof the world we live in.
So for us to move forward, wehave to acknowledge that, so
that we all have an opportunityto thrive.
So that's what I did by sharingmy stories Like here's what's
happened to me.
You may not believe it couldhappen to me, but it has.
Many times.
I don't let this hold me back.
I use this as a means to bridgecommunity and create a world
(10:58):
where we all feel safe and canthrive.
Osha Hayden (11:01):
Right.
That is very important, I think, for people to understand.
They think, oh well, it can'thappen here.
Well, yes, it does.
It does happen all the time andthat's important to acknowledge
.
And now I think we have seen somany examples of innocent black
men being pulled over andmurdered, and even in front of
(11:25):
our eyes, and I think peoplehave awakened now to what it is
really like to be black inAmerica, to be black while
driving or, you know, standingon the street or anything else.
And you have decided, aftertrying to patch up all these
hundreds or thousands of youngbeautiful in their prime black
(11:47):
bodies, you have decided to doeverything in your power to
address the gun violence and theracism and the structural
racism that keeps these thingsin continuity, just continuing
and continuing.
So do you want to talk a littlebit about that and your
campaign now, what it is thatyou're trying to do to change
(12:09):
this reality that I think is soupsetting for so many people?
Dr. Brian Williams (12:14):
Absolutely, osha.
As you alluded to, I am nowrunning for Congress and, if
elected, I'd be the first traumasurgeon elected to Congress.
I'd also be the first blackdoctor who could vote in
Congress, so this could be anhistoric election.
But what drove me to this isjust my history of public
service as an Air Force veteranand as a doctor and just seeing
(12:39):
the impact of gun violence onindividuals and families and
communities.
And what can I do to be part ofsystemic change?
Right Within the hospital Ihave great one-on-one
interactions with patients and Ican impact a couple hundred per
year.
But as a member of Congress,that impact is much greater, to
(12:59):
the tunes of hundreds ofthousands of millions per year,
and to take my experience andbring that into Congress is
where I hope to make a muchbigger difference to keep us all
safe.
But it's using gun violence as ameans to address these other
issues, and that's what in thebook I wanted to address.
Bigger issues, right, there arestructural racism, our
(13:23):
democracy, and by pulling you inI wanted to hook you in to the
story.
There's a lot of storytellingand personal narrative so that
you're enveloped in the story,but along the way, osha, we're
going to learn about these other, much bigger issues and, most
importantly, what's the pathtowards healing like?
How can we be part of thesolution?
(13:44):
Because, in the end, when we'retalking about all this heavy
stuff, there is hope.
We all can make a difference.
And that is the end point ofthe book is to call to action,
to get people to be part of thesolution, to create a better
world.
Osha Hayden (13:58):
And I think that is what my listeners want, is to
know what they can do to changethis, because it's just
heartbreaking.
Well, let's go to a short breakand we'll be right back in just
a moment with Dr Brian HWilliams.
Stay tuned, in case you're justjoining us, this is Aspire,
(14:29):
with Osha Art, nature, humanity,and I'm your host, Osha Hayden,
and I am here with Dr Brian HWilliams, a trauma surgeon who
is also running for US Congress.
We're talking about racism,structural racism, gun violence
and how to change these things,how to change these inequities,
(14:54):
moving forward so that we couldall come together and work
together and express ourselvesin the way that we are here to
do.
We were talking about theprotests that happened and your
response as a surgeon, becauseyou were the one who was there
patching up seven of thosepolice officers who were shot on
(15:15):
the night of 7-7 in Dallas.
We were talking about yourjourney to address that
structural racism and gunviolence and inequity.
In your run for the US Congress, you say, "I was a veteran
surgeon and scholar strugglingwith what it meant to be black
(15:37):
and routinely deal with theworst kinds of violence
perpetrated against my people.
What you're talking about isthe systemic and structural
racism that began with slaveryand continues to this day.
Can you talk about the barrierbetween your personal identity
as a black man and yourprofessional identity as a black
doctor when you were serving asa doctor?
Dr. Brian Williams (16:00):
Oh sure, I was masterful at segregating
those parts of my life from eachother and just keeping these
strict walls when I was at workas a doctor, just getting my job
done as a doctor and separatingthat from the reality I lived
as a black man in this countryand trying not to let those two
intertwine.
I wanted to be successful atwork.
(16:22):
I didn't want to do or sayanything that would maybe
interfere with my professionalprogress, or lose support of my
colleagues, but the reality isthat's just not a way to live.
We should not have to trade ourauthenticity for acceptance,
which is what I had done and Irealized that prevented me from
having genuine connections witha lot of people as a result,
(16:45):
despite my outward success.
Right, we can do this, I thinkyou want to say you can be very
successful at what you do, evenif you're not bringing your
authentic self to work every day.
And that's how I had lived.
I didn't want to talk aboutgetting pulled over by police
officers and fearing for my life, or how many times I've been
called the N word for no goodreason, or even at work in the
hospital.
(17:05):
But now I realize that I couldhave been a much better doctor,
a much better colleague, a muchbetter teacher if I had embraced
all of that and not tried tohide it.
And that's the life I'm livingnow, and it's also part of the
reason why you know what I feellike.
I would be a good congressmanbecause of my experience in the
military and in medicine andhaving served.
(17:27):
But also we're speaking topeople with lived experiences
that are willing to serve onbehalf of the country and to
bring that reality to Congress.
I think I will be.
Actually, I know, no doubt,that would make me an effective
member of Congress in service tothe community that I'm trying
to uplift.
Osha Hayden (17:45):
I want to come back to your book for a moment, The
bodies Keep Coming.
I have to say I read the bookand it is an excellent book and
it does really pull you in andgive you a behind the scenes
view of what it's like to be atrauma surgeon and I think also
the extent of the violencethat's going on, the frequency
(18:09):
of young black bodies beingcarted into the emergency room
with gunshot wounds.
So The Bodies Keep Coming, byBrian H Williams MD.
I think you might want to readit.
It's a really good book and,though it deals with a difficult
subject, it also talks aboutthat structural violence.
(18:29):
It weaves those things into thestory and could you talk a
little bit about that?
I mean, some of the statisticsthat you quote in the book
really are just astounding.
Dr. Brian Williams (18:42):
Thank you, osha.
I really wanted this to be anenjoyable read by hooking onto
that part of you that connectsyou to our shared humanity and
pull you into the story.
So using a lot of personalnarrative to pull you along the
story, but also wanted to teachwithout sounding like I was
lecturing you as well.
(19:02):
So there's a personal narrative, there are the what's happening
while I'm in the hospital, butweaving in the statistics so you
can learn some things about howstructural racism impacts
pretty much every facet of oursociety, like one where I talked
about that there are less blackmen entering medical school now
than there were back in the 70s.
You know we're talking abouttwo generations later.
(19:23):
There are less of us going intomedicine than there were back
then.
Talk about how there's so muchpreventable death, particularly
in communities of color, due tostructures that have been put in
place to segregate people.
You know you put communities ofblack residents adjacent to a
municipal dump or factories.
You can imagine that theirhealth outcomes would be worse,
(19:46):
and we do have the evidence thatshows that that is the case.
So I want to show really how wecan fix that so that everyone
can thrive.
So looking at how thestructures that have been put in
place need to be removed, butalso by radically reinvesting in
these communities.
So I don't want to bore youwith all of that reality, but to
pull you in with the story andthen interweave all of the
(20:08):
information along the way.
Hopefully, at the end you willsee things differently, but also
you will know you're called todo something differently after
reading the book.
Osha Hayden (20:18):
And there is a lot that can be done.
There's a ton that can be done.
I mean, we could start with gunviolence.
Isn't there a bill right nowthat the Democrats brought
forward to address gun violenceand the very next day it was
shot down by the Republicans?
Do you want to talk about thata little bit?
Dr. Brian Williams (20:37):
Yes, there was recently a bill about
reinstating the assault weaponsban and that did not go anywhere
due to Republican opposition.
But we're not without hope,Osha.
Last year we passed theBipartisan Save Our Communities
Act, which was the mostsignificant gun safety bill in a
generation, and at the time Iwas actually serving as a health
(20:59):
policy advisor in Congress toSenator Chris Murphy, who was
the lead sponsor of that bill.
But what it shows is that wecan do big things to reduce
death due to gun violence in abipartisan way that will benefit
all Americans.
So we decided to build uponthat work.
So sometimes they seem hopeless, but we are not without hope,
(21:20):
we are not without power, and aslong as we continue to do the
work, we can make this countrysafer for the next generation so
that we're all not fearful ofbeing injured or killed due to
gun violence.
Osha Hayden (21:33):
And it's kind of hard to understand what the
motivation would be of someonewho wants to block legislation
that would prevent these deathsfrom gun violence.
Well, other than big money, Isuppose.
Dr. Brian Williams (21:50):
As someone who has had to pronounce too
many children dead on arrival,have had to deliver news to too
many parents about the deaths ofsomeone they care about, as
someone who, myself, has lostfamily members to gun violence,
and as a veteran who's trainedon these weapons, it's
unfathomable that our electedleaders do not do more to keep
us safe from gun violence.
Especially when a majority ofAmericans agree that there are
(22:12):
things that we can do to reducefirearm related injuries and can
and should do, I should say, toreduce death and injury due to
firearms.
It's just a small group ofelected leaders that continue to
block that.
So we, with our power ascitizens, just send the right
leaders to Congress who willstep up to do what's right on
(22:32):
behalf of our children to keepthem safe.
And that's central to why I'mrunning to go there to do what I
can to join a growing majoritythat wants to do something to
promote gun safety in thiscountry and bring my perspective
to the table.
Osha Hayden (22:46):
I just want to mention that Kehinde Wiley art
exhibit came here to SanFrancisco, which is near where I
live, and I was able to go andsee it.
I was very fortunate to be ableto go and see that exhibit and
I don't know if everyonelistening is aware of Kehinde
Wiley, but he is a black painterand sculptor of an excellence
(23:07):
that is truly remarkable.
I walked out of the exhibit andI said "move over Michelangelo
and I am a Michelangelo fan.
But it was so powerful andthere were all these beautiful
young black bodies in the primeof their lives reclining and you
(23:27):
didn't know if they weresleeping or if they were dead,
but it was very, very powerful.
So if anyone has a chance tosee that, I'm just going to
throw in a little plug for ithere because I think it is very
impactful.
So why are academic medicalcenters generally located in
predominantly African Americanand poor urban areas?
Dr. Brian Williams (23:51):
Yeah, this is something that even with my
entire career in academia thatwas shocking to me, even though
intuitively I knew this.
But to really address thereality of why academic medical
centers were placed nearimpoverished, largely black
communities.
By intent for a couple ofreasons, Academic medical
(24:11):
centers train the nextgeneration of students and
doctors, so you have a communitythat can't afford health care,
but they get to go to thesecenters where young doctors and
young doctors in training get tolearn their craft.
They also are frequently usedin clinical trials and medical
experiments, and they don't evenconsent to it.
So academia has benefitedgreatly by this co-location,
(24:36):
which continues to this day, andI feel like we should be
teaching this to our medicalstudents, we should be teaching
this to our nursing students andanybody that works in health
care should understand this,just so that we recognize and be
more committed to the sharedhumanity of people that are
suffering and may have nowhereelse to go.
There's been great strides andadvances made in medicine as a
(24:58):
result.
As I've learned and taught, Ifeel I would have been better if
I could have known and taughtthis to the next generation as
well.
So let's not ignore the historyof how black people have been
exploited by academic medicalcenters over the centuries.
Osha Hayden (25:13):
So let's also talk about how your neighborhood can
influence your odds of seeingyour grandchildren grow up.
Dr. Brian Williams (25:20):
Now this is another talk about structural
racism.
We know that they talk aboutzip codes being more important
than your genetic code.
They can identify certain zipcodes that have the highest
endemic gun violence, highestrates of late stage cancers.
There are zip codes that aredefined as cradle to prison,
meaning that if you're born inthat zip code especially for
(25:42):
young black men in certain areasthen you will end up in the
criminal justice system at somepoint.
So that's a health care part inthe criminal justice part, but
also in these same zip codes.
Housing, poorly fundededucation, all these things
impact our health.
It's not just seeing a doctor,but the social determinants, the
non-hospital things that impactour health are tied to zip
(26:04):
codes and they can actually godown to streets right, not just
the zip code, but down theactual street level, the
granular data.
So that is where we need thepower of government, along with
private industry, communityactivists, community members who
live there, to come together toinstitute dramatic change, to
(26:27):
uplift these communities,especially involving those that
live there, because those thatare closest to the problem often
have the best solutions.
It's just that we need to askhow we can help and allow them
to take the lead to transformcommunities.
Osha Hayden (26:44):
And how much better would our world be if we had
the benefit of these peoplecontributing to society in the
ways that they are able to,instead of being kept down by
circumstances beyond theircontrol?
What kind of world would wehave if people were able to
(27:05):
contribute their gifts?
Dr. Brian Williams (27:07):
A healthy individual is a healthy
community, a healthy communityis a healthy society.
And just the humanisticargument should be enough.
Right, we should care enoughabout our neighbors to recognize
our shared humanity and wishthe best for everyone, even
complete strangers.
But I think it's not too muchof a leap to understand that
when you have more healthypeople, that that is a good
(27:30):
thing for the economy.
Right, people can work.
They're more productive.
The economy will be more robust.
That will lead to less crime,better education.
We have to understand how allof these are interconnected and
how health and health care iscentral to all that, so we can
commit and decide what is theminimum level of health we want
(27:52):
to expect from an individual,what is the minimum level of
health care we should provide.
The payoff for that is muchgreater over time than what we
will invest.
And that's what I just wantpeople to understand is that we
all have a role in creating aworld where each of us can
thrive and achieve our maximalpotential.
Osha Hayden (28:13):
Yes, on that beautiful, positive note, we're
going to go to a short break andwe'll be back in just a moment
with more with Dr Brian HWilliams.
Stay with us.
In case you're just joining us.
This is Aspire, with Osha (28:34):
art, nature, humanity, and I'm your
host, Osha Hayden, and I am herewith Dr Brian H Williams,
author of the Bodies Keep Comingand candidate for the US
Congress.
I think this is an interestingthing that we need to talk about
(28:55):
here, the role of guns inAmerica.
We're talking about gunviolence, but the actual role of
guns in America, where whitemen are considered patriots,
police are protectors and blackmen are criminals.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Dr. Brian Williams (29:13):
Absolutely, osha.
I wanted to highlight how we'regoing to talk about guns.
We have to talk about race,we're talking about gun violence
.
We have to talk about racismand how these are all
intertwined.
We cannot separate them.
So when you think about gunownership, which you just
mentioned, I think people thinkof you know, white men are
presented as patriots, police asprotectors, black men as
(29:37):
criminals, and what does thatmean for how we view gun
ownership?
But it's not only that.
Let's talk about gun violencevictims, like how do you decide
who is a victim, whom we shouldmourn and whom we should ignore?
And it's just not how we feelabout it, but it's statistics as
well.
For example, the Stand YourGround laws which allow people
(29:59):
to use deadly force with aweapon if they feel their lives
are threatened.
But looking at the data fromStanding Ground Laws, there are
definitely racial disparities.
So if the victim is black andthe shooter is white, that is
more often deemed a justifiablekilling.
(30:20):
When it's reversed, that is notthe case.
A Black shooting a white personis less frequently considered
justifiable, even if they claimthe same defense.
Stand your ground and I talkedabout this even more, that for
standing ground laws if you're awhite woman that shoots your
domestic abuser in self-defense,you are more likely to be
(30:41):
convicted than a white man whoshoots an unarmed person in
public.
So that just kind of shows theracial disparities within these
statistics.
But the whole point is I wantto shine a light on, if we're
going to move forward, we needto really talk about race in a
way that looks at the reality ofhow that impacts our day-to-day
(31:03):
lives, and violence is one ofthose issues where race cannot
be separated.
We need to talk about how thatinfluences ownership, deaths and
how we as a society view whoare the worthy victims and
owners of firearms.
Osha Hayden (31:19):
Because you can have a black man who legally
owns a gun but is treated very,very differently than a white
man who owns a gun.
Dr. Brian Williams (31:29):
Absolutely.
I mean, when I was younger, mymother would not allow me to
play with toy guns.
You cannot play with toy guns.
She knew that back in the 70s.
She knew that that could get mekilled.
And I think we've seen this now.
Tamir Rice had a toy gun and hewas shot and killed.
And there's people that areunarmed, that are unarmed black
men who were shot and killed.
(31:50):
So this is not a new phenomenon.
This has been going on for along time and black families and
black communities know thereality of this.
It's now becoming more broadlyunderstood and known and with
that knowledge we can makechange.
With that knowledge we can makechange so that we all feel safe
.
Osha Hayden (32:08):
So let's talk about some of the things because
you've been studying healthpolicy and structural racism and
all of these things andadvising people in Congress for
quite some time now, so you arean expert on all of this.
So what are some of the thingsthat you would like to do when
you get into Congress and I'mjust going to assume here that
(32:30):
you are getting into Congress,because we're going for
positivity here and we do needto come together to create a
better world.
Dr. Brian Williams (32:38):
I like that endorsement and the energy there
, Osha, I appreciate it.
For me, when you say expert,there is the lived experience
combined with the academicexperience of the issues that we
talked about, and, as a memberof Congress, I want to take all
of that to the table in aneffort to serve.
As a veteran, I internalizethis ethos of service before
(32:59):
self and that's what I want todo is put service before self as
a member of Congress and bybringing my experience and
expertise and these issues wetalked about how we can make the
country better.
Now, certainly not somethingthat one person can do alone,
but without that diversity ofvoices and experience at the
table, nothing will change.
(33:20):
And I say I'll be the firsttrauma surgeon in Congress,
joining others who are workingto reduce gun violence deaths in
this country.
I'd be the first black doctorto vote in Congress.
We've talked about health caredisparities.
There's only 19 doctors inCongress, but I'll also be a
black doctor who can talk aboutthis issue through the lens of
what do we do to ensure thebetter health outcomes for our
(33:44):
racial and ethnic minoritiesthat are frequently an
afterthought when we think aboutpolicies related to their
health.
That's the sort of experienceand ethic I want to take to
Congress to fight for everyone,because everyone benefits.
We can all benefit from thatand I feel very good about the
campaign right now and you canlearn more about the campaign at
Dr Brian Williams for Congress.
(34:05):
com.
Osha Hayden (34:07):
So and you can also go to Dr Brian Williams, md
.
com, correct?
Dr. Brian Williams (34:16):
Brian Williams MD.
com.
That was my first website forthe book and So for the book -
Brian Williams MDcom.
For Congress, Dr Brian Williamsfor Congress.
com.
Osha Hayden (34:32):
And again the book is called the Bodies Keep
Coming (34:35):
Dispatches from a Black Trauma Surgeon on Racism,
Violence and, (most importantly), how we Heal.
I think that is very important.
But let's talk a moment abouthow you've been on a long
journey with your wife and yourdaughter, and that is a
continuing journey, but what hasall of this been like on them?
(34:58):
I mean, what is the effect onthem?
Dr. Brian Williams (35:00):
My wife is clearly a central character in
the story and without herpresence there is no story,
right.
She is the voice of reason onthe pages in the book.
She's also the one there thatis nudging me in certain
directions at key moments oftransformation during the
journey, and she's been my bestsupporter, advisor, critic as
(35:22):
well.
I'm fortunate to have her in mylife and, as a result, we've
grown closer, we have muchdeeper discussions about a lot
of issues and I look forward tocontinuing this journey with her
.
My daughter, you know I see theworld through her eyes.
You know she's a different setof eyes to see through the world
with, and I'm more committed todoing what I can to ensure that
she has a better place toinherit and grow up within and
(35:46):
thrive.
So none of this we've talkedabout, all of this, is
meaningless without them.
Without them along on thejourney with me, this won't have
quite the same sort of impact.
So I feel very fortunate thatwe get to go on this journey
together.
Osha Hayden (36:00):
And so would you like to talk about what you
would like to do on day one whenyou get elected to the US
Congress?
Dr. Brian Williams (36:08):
Day one as a brand new member of Congress, I
feel my most important thing isto be a team player and do what
I can to contribute to themission, to serve the country.
So certainly getting touch withthe leadership of the caucus
and saying like, how can I help?
This is something I learned asan Air Force veteran is that the
(36:28):
best leaders know how tofollow, right.
You know how to follow and, asa brand new member of Congress,
despite my credentials, myrecord of service, I will still
be a new member of Congress,which requires more learning,
developing more relationshipsand doing what I can to
contribute to preserving ourdemocracy and ensuring that all
Americans can thrive.
Osha Hayden (36:49):
I think that America is really at a flex
point right now, where we wouldlike to have more leaders who
actually are committed toserving the people, to serving
us in Congress, rather than somewild and crazy agenda that
comes from somewhere else.
So, anyway, it has been anabsolute pleasure to have you on
(37:12):
the show today, Dr.
Williams, and again I want totalk about this book.
The bodies keep coming by BrianH Williams MD and you can go to
his website and check it out,and your website for your
congressional campaign is.
Will you say it again?
Dr. Brian Williams (37:29):
Dr Brian Williams for Congress.
com.
Dr Brian with an ".
Osha Hayden (37:35):
Thank you so much for joining us today, and I
think this is a very importantsubject that we've been talking
about, and it's very hopeful tosee someone like yourself who
has the experience that you have, who has a vision for the
future and knows how to get thatimplemented.
So good luck to you on yourcampaign.
Dr. Brian Williams (37:57):
Thank you very much.
Oh, it's been a greatconversation.
I like to offer one of yourlisteners a signed copy of the
book.
I will allow you to decide howto determine who that will be.
We can work that out after theshow sometime.
But I'll definitely send asigned copy of the book to one
of your loyal listeners.
Osha Hayden (38:12):
Oh, thank you so very much.
Someone is going to be very,very happy.
Well, so to my listeners, thankyou so much for listening and
have an inspired week and liveyour joy.
See you next time.
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