Narcissistic Parents, Emotional Abuse, and Unconventional Divorce

"A lot of people have narcissistic parents in the sense that they care more about what the kid does for them than they care about actually nurturing the kid."- Shay Rowbottom

This interview with Shay Rowbottom, LinkedIn Content Guru, delves into growing up with narcissistic parents, unhealthy relationships, reasons not be a mother, and divorcing your toxic family. 

There is so much value and strength to be garnered from this discussion. I suggest you do like me and  listen to it a FEW times.  Recorded May 26, 2020

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome.
Welcome.
Welcome to asshole parents withChristian family.
I am a twice divorce adult,child of divorce, proud mother
of three former divorce lawyerfor nearly 20 years.
And my divorce parents live withme.
Yes, I am truly all thingsdivorce.
The title of this podcast, aasshole parents comes from my

(00:22):
life with my own parents who Iguess said live with me and they
both think the other's anasshole.
And I think they're bothassholes and it led me to
believe that I'm probably alsoan asshole.
And as a result here we are withthis podcast.
Today's guest is Shane RO bottomis my first celebrity guest.
I say I'm so excited to beinterviewing her.

(00:44):
I've been following her contenton LinkedIn.
So engaging, just reallyengaging.
I love your message or point ofview, just everything about you.
Um, I was reading an articlethat you posted on LinkedIn
called the divorce is yourfault, and I knew immediately
that you needed to be a guest onthe show.

(01:05):
And so with no further ado, Shea, please introduce yourself and
let's just

Speaker 2 (01:10):
talk.
Thank you.
Yes.
Thank you so much for having mehere.
Certainly a topic I'm verypassionate about having grown up
in it myself.
Um, but today what I do is Ihelp businesses create video
content on LinkedIn to attracttheir target market and close

(01:31):
more deals.
So I first got into digitalmarketing a few years ago.
I started working on Facebookediting video content, working
with some of these huge blogs.
It was really humbling.
I learned a lot about how togrow a following and how to get
attention online, specificallyusing video as a tool.
And, um, once I realized therewas such an opportunity on
LinkedIn for video, very littlecompetition, very little

(01:54):
business owners utilizing it.
I decided to pivot and start aLinkedIn agency.
So I've been in the industry forjust four years now, but I've
really gone all in and it's justbeen an incredibly humbling
experience to get to learn allthis knowledge about digital
marketing and share it withothers and also share it with
myself because I also alwayswanted to be a performer.

(02:16):
I've always wanted to be anentertainer.
And that goes back to mychildhood, which I'm sure we'll
talk about, you know, neededthat need for attention, kind of
developing that.
Um, so yeah, I'm really excitedto be here today.
And then in addition to all ofthe marketing knowledge and
everything I share on my blog, Iam very open about, you know, my
history.
I'm very open about myvulnerabilities, my
shortcomings, my mental healthstruggles.

(02:37):
And I also talk a lot aboutfamily and family dynamics and
how that plays into the mentalhealth aspect.
So thank you.
I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh, thanks so much, Brian.
And I can't say enough how muchI love your content on LinkedIn.
I made it like, they're the bestvideos out there.
I always watched them.
I always stop.
I always learn something.
I laugh while I'm like, thisgirl really knows what she's

Speaker 2 (03:00):
doing.
Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And that's, that's exactly it,right?
People are like, how are yougetting all this attention?
How are you doing this?
And, uh, they don't always seethe background that I've had in
video licensing.
You know, I literally curatedthousands of video clips at one
point.
My last agency was doing abillion views a month on
Facebook.
Yeah.
So it's not just thepersonality.

(03:21):
I mean, it's certainly helpsthat I've always had an
inclination, uh, to entertainand kind of have that natural
personality, but it's really themarketing and all of the logic
that I learned behind it.
Um, so to anyone listening,who's like, Oh, I want videos
like that.
How do you get attention likethat?
Um, it's totally possible.
You just have to study andlearn.
Awesome.
Awesome.
I'll probably reach out.
Cause Lord knows.

(03:43):
Let me know.
Yes.
Sweet.
But yes, the deal is you arevery open about who you are and
how you came to become who youare.
And so like you started to touchon it.
Like you were always wereinterested in entertainment and
this came from your childhood.
Let's let's hear about that.
Yes.
Um, so I grew up in a reallyrough terrain.

(04:06):
Um, it's actually not somethingI've, I've come forward fully
about, uh, the abuse of mychildhood.
It, uh, took me a lot of time toactually process what had
happened to me as a little girland why I developed the patterns
and the personalities and, um,the coping mechanisms that I had
developed, you know, for a longtime, I just didn't really even

(04:27):
know I was pretty unconscious toit.
But now looking back on thechildhood, it's a pretty natural
response for a child to wantsattention if they're being
neglected.
So I took on that role, I tookon that archetype.
Like I was just alwaysentertaining, always doing
whatever I could to getattention, to be liked, to be
valued.

(04:47):
Um, and it, it never left me.
You know, I grew up, I decided Iwanted to be a musician, but it
was really hard.
You know, like when you grow upwith narcissistic parents, the
kids usually will not get along.
And that's my design.
Um, it's that classic divide andconquer mentality.
And I'm not saying that theseparents are conscious of what

(05:09):
they're doing.
In fact, many of them are notconscious.
That's the problem in the firstplace.
That's what creates narcissism?
Is it just a complete denial ofself, your unconscious to the
reality, but that's whathappened in my household.
You know, I have four sistersand they're very lovely people,
but unfortunately we were kindof naturally pitted against one
another from the start, you know, uh, I don't have resentment

(05:32):
for my sisters or for the lackof support I got, they made fun
of me a lot for wantingattention, but that was just
their trauma response.
You know, that was just theirreaction.
It was a very competitivehousehold.
And, um, it was a really sad,uh, divorce, which you touched
on.
I mean, it really, I resonatewith everything you say 100%

(05:53):
because when my parents finallygot a divorce, I 18 and they
just completely would, uh, paintthe other one in a negative
light blame, the other one, youknow, talk to their kids about
the other one.
Um, it's kind of that classic,like parent alienation syndrome
that can occur in a lot ofdivorces.
Yeah.
That happened a hard for me.

(06:15):
And especially cause I was oneof the kids who was still
talking to both parents, youknow, I was trying to go back
and forth trying to mitigate.
And it was like every time Ihung out with my mom, she was
telling me how much of a pieceof shit my dad was.
And every time I hung out withmy dad, he was telling me how
much a piece of shit my mom was.
And I did the exact same thingthat you'd mentioned earlier
where you come to realize like,well, am I just, this is 50% of

(06:36):
me.
This is 50% of me.
Am I just a hundred percentpiece of shit?
And that stuck with me, like,you know, thankfully within it
all, I always had an aspect ofmy higher self that just knew
something was seriously wronghere.
But you know, as kids, we, wewant to love our parents.
We want to not see the darkness.
We want to idealize them andonly see the good qualities and

(06:58):
keep making excuses for havingthem in our lives.
Even if they are toxic.
I just, I cut the cords.
I mean, it took many years.
I eventually realized like, youknow, this family, they, they
are in a very unconscious onhealed state, not living in
reality, living in denial,victim mentality, blaming
setting a bad example for theirkids.

(07:19):
You know, I just realized thisenvironment is not conducive to
me reaching the goals that Iknow I want to achieve in life.
And it's a hard pill for a lotof people to swallow.
You know, they have all thesebig goals, these dreams, but
they can't get past the reality.
Oftentimes that can't take yourfamily with you.
I know they're your loved ones.
I know you want them to healwith you and like be on the same

(07:41):
path, but it's just not thereality.
You have to cut these peopleout, even if they are family.
Um, so in my case, yeah, a lotof abuse, a lot of narcissism, a
lot of just, you know, livingthrough the kids, caring more
about what the kids do for usand how they make us look then
about their actual needs and,and what they're feeling.
Um, it just really motivated meto want to talk to people about

(08:03):
it because I started to noticenot everyone grows up with the
extremities that I did, but likea lot of people have
narcissistic parents in thesense that they care more about
what the kid does for them thanthey care about actually
nurturing the kid.
So that has become a big focusof mine as well.
Helping educate people,educating parents around, you

(08:24):
know, their own tendencies.
How can you become conscious ofthis dark programming?
That's kind of been ingrained insociety generation after
generation.
Like it's all about how we look.
We all have family secrets thatwere kind of like programmed not
to reveal.
And if we get too raw andvulnerable, our family shames
us, no, like it's none of that.
I believe in living out in theopen and that was not going to

(08:45):
fly with my family.
So I left and, uh, my life hascontinually improved by miles
and milestones ever since, Oh myGod.
There was so juiciness in thereand packet for me, a lot of
juiciness in there.
Um, yeah, like I'm with you onthis.
Like I grew up experiencingemotional neglect, right?

(09:07):
So it's childhood emotionalneglect and emotional neglect is
really hard to identify becauseit's something that didn't
happened.
You know, when this had this,like there's riots and then, and
then people challenge it a lotof times when you say like, Oh,
I was abusive.
Like, no, you weren't on thesurface.
Everything looks fine.
You had food, you had this,like, what are you talking
about?

(09:27):
The emotional stuff is reallysubtle and covert like that as
the truth.
And like my parents, like theydid the best they could.
You know what I mean?
I know that about them a hundredpercent, but they were
unconscious it's like you weresaying, like they weren't, there
was only so much they were ableto give is the statement.
My mother says, you know, theydid their drunk ass best, you
know what I mean?
Like yes.

(09:50):
And the drinking.
Yeah.
Right.
And at some point you, you makethe movement that you do, you
accept them for who they are.
Right.
You look at the effect thatthey've had on your life and you
make a decision.
Right.
Am I going to be this person?
I'm not going to be somebodyelse.
Yes.
Right.
And I think a lot of peoplethink they make that decision,
but they don't, you know, theyattribute like being different

(10:13):
than their parents and being abetter parent than their
parents.
They attribute it to likepersonality traits or even, um,
even things that on the surfacelook like they're doing a better
job.
Like, Oh, for example, growingup, my dad was never around.
He never went to my soccergames.
I go to every single one of myson's soccer games.
So I'm different.
I've clear.
I've cleared the family line.

(10:33):
Like it's changed.
It's like if you have anunderlying programming that you
just care about what your kiddoes for you, more than caring
about their actual needs andwhat's good for them, it doesn't
matter how many soccer games yougo to.
Like, you're still your dad, youknow, it's just coming out in a
different form.
It might even be coming out in amore manipulative form now where
all the friends see the data'spresent.
They're like, what are youtalking about your dad?
So, I mean, I know for me,that's true.

(10:56):
Like I had the mom that all myfriends were like, your mom's so
cool.
She's so amazing.
I wish I had your mom, but I'mlike, you don't see what goes on
behind these closed doors.
My mom was really good atputting on a show and that's
part of the design.
Right?
So that when you go outside thefamily to kind of inquire
question or you have concernsfor the way you're being
treated, everyone's like, no,no, no, no, no, no.
Don't complain.

(11:16):
You know, you're, you're whitemiddle class privilege.
Like you have nothing tocomplain about.
And that's also a reallydangerous aspect to this
narcissistic parenting epidemic.
Hmm.
Oh my God.
I love it.
You hear people talking about alot getting divorced from a
narcissistic spouse.
Oh yes it is.
It's rough.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
But your angle of being thechild of a narcissistic parent,

(11:38):
I promise I've never heard thisstory from anybody.
You that's crazy.
No, it's, it's out there.
I mean, I first started learningabout narcissism because of
narcissistic parenting.
Like that was actually how I gotinto the rabbit hole of
narcissism, but you're right.
A lot of times people don'trecognize their own parents as

(11:59):
having these dark qualities.
And then they grow up and theymanifest a narcissistic spouse
and they don't know why, butit's, they're replaying a
patterning from their childhood.
What they just thought wasnormal.
What they just thought was love.
But it was actually narcissisticabuse and control.
You know, I control you,therefore.
I love you.
Um, so I went through the samething.
I, I was in a relationship withan intellectual narcissist for

(12:22):
four years.
It ended ugly.
Yes.
Like you, if someone is truly anarcissist and deep in that
darkness, I'm breaking away fromthem.
It's going to be really hard.
You know, they're going to fightit.
They're going to battle you.
And that's exactly what happenedwith my dad.
You know, when my mom decided topull the plug and say, I can't
do this anymore.
Um, and they were bothnarcissistic, but he was

(12:44):
definitely the ringleader.
I mean, she was, uh, as, as muchas she's guilty, she was a
victim.
Like I want to be clear, like helike this, this man was very,
very dark and manipulative.
And that's what happened whenshe got a divorce.
He like freeze.
The bank accounts, like tookmoney.
She had to like borrow moneyfrom my sister just to pay a
lawyer.
I mean, it gets nasty.
It's like a lot of nasty energyand it just comes back to the

(13:08):
narcissist losing control.
They don't like it.
They've had control of thiswoman for X amount of years.
You start to set boundaries.
You start to honor yourself foronce.
Because typically when you'rewith a narcissist, it's probably
all about serving them.
They'll punish you, you know,they'll attack you for that.
And that's exactly what I wentthrough with my ex.
And it really actually, Inoticed through the breakup and

(13:30):
I had already cut out my parentsat this time.
Hadn't talked to my family foryears, but my mom came back in
the light for me during my ownbreakup because of I realized
what she'd gone through, uh,way, way, way closer now,
because I had gone through thesame thing and I started to have
a lot more compassion for her,like, wow, how difficult it got
over time.

(13:50):
Um, as this man sort ofindoctrinated me into his ways
and brainwashed me into beingmore and more dependent on him,
how difficult it was for me tobreak away from him after that,
and end to end to form my ownvoice again, and to follow my
God of like deep down,something's wrong, deep down.
I know that this man, likethere's something off here.
I mean, that was a huge processfor me.

(14:12):
And we were only together forfour years.
We're not married and did noteven have kids together.
Thank God.
So yeah.
So I look at my mom like, Ohgosh.
And you know, even some of thesemore powerful women who maybe
their husband makes a lot ofmoney and takes care of the kids
and you know what I mean?
So it gets, you stuck in thisplace of feeling like you really
need them.
But at the end of the day, if wetruly tune into our intuition

(14:35):
and tap into our gut and listento that, which I feel so many
humans are disconnected fromnow, and we'll find this is not
living, you know, this is notlife.
It doesn't matter how much moneythey make.
It doesn't matter how charmingthey are to everyone else in
your life.
And everyone else going to say,like, it seems like you're with
a great guy, you know, it seemslike your parents are great.
What do you feel in your gut isgood for your soul and go with

(14:58):
that.
Oh my God.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
That really is a hundred percentmy message about divorce.
And so I'd like to talk aboutit.
Like, was there an incident thatlet you know that this isn't
right.
Was there a person that came inlike, like how did you get the
strength and the self perceptionto know it's time to get out of
here?
Yeah.
Um, good question.

(15:19):
I definitely started to figureit out in my teen years.
You know, once I started hangingout with a lot of friends, saw
different family dynamics versusmine.
Um, you know, I, I, I would saythat it started with my mom
because my dad wasn't, um, asactive as a parent, like just
wasn't around as much.
It was usually my mom who waslike running the show.

(15:41):
Like you had to ask herpermission for things, not him.
Um, and she just treated me verypoorly.
You know, like I was a good kid.
I was a straight a student.
I played soccer.
I worked a part time job.
You know, it was like, I checkedall the boxes of being a really
good kid who should just kind ofbe allowed some freedom, but she

(16:01):
was very, very controlling ofme.
I mean, like, it was an to anunhealthy degree and I am also
one of the younger siblings.
So I think when the oldersiblings started to move out of
the house for focus, really, shereally got laser focused in on
me.
And, um, I just started to callher out.
I just said it like, you know,this is wrong.
Like why I would challenge her,I would say like, what, but why

(16:21):
do I need to do that mom?
But like, what is the, you know,like, and, and I look back on
it.
I didn't even know what I wasdoing, but I was calling her out
on her own shame.
Things that she deep down knewwas bullshit, but she couldn't
face it.
So when I would trigger that andcause her brain to question
things and go down that path oflooking at herself, it was like
shame, you know?
And that, and that's a big thingI talk about is shame.

(16:44):
I mean, that's how narcissistsare created is shame.
Shame is a great way to controlpeople.
Shame is also the lowest of allhuman vibrations.
So when you're shaming someone,there's nowhere to go, but down,
and this is what's happening insociety.
We just shame each other.
There's nowhere to go, but down,we're just killing each other
when we're, when we do theshaming, instead of trying to
actually be open and seepeople's perspective no much, no

(17:08):
matter how much you think youdisagree with it.
Um, shame is not the way.
And this is the way innarcissistic households.
You know, they shame the kidsinto being who they want.
And, uh, I just wasn't havingit.
You know, I think my othersisters were just more obedient
personality types, naturally alittle easier to control a
little, just like, okay, I don'twant to rock the boat.
Um, I was the outspoken child.

(17:29):
I just was like, something'swrong here?
I want freedom.
You know, I want to be anartist.
Like, I don't think I needcollege.
I saw a different path formyself in life and my mom was
very against it.
Cause she wanted all of us to goto college.
You know, she wanted us to haveour degrees.
So I would say that wasdefinitely the turning point for
me was high school.
And it's funny because I had afew girlfriends over this past

(17:51):
week and then they were bothcomplaining to me about their
families.
And one of the things they bothsaid was I am a completely
different person around myfamily.
And I was like, Oh no, no, no.
Like the alarms went off for me.
That's why I couldn't stay withmy family because I refuse to be
anyone, but who I really was.
And they couldn't accept it.
It was, I was too grounded inreality.

(18:12):
I was to looking at like thestats of like college degree,
like this, the debt, likedoesn't add up for me going to
art school and wanting to be anartist.
I can do it about it.
You know what I mean?
Like I was just forming my ownconclusions to things and that's
a big, no, no right.
To control someone.
You better hope that they arenot critically thinking.
And I just became veryanalytical.
I just started to look atreality.

(18:33):
And that's when the tensionbetween me and my mom got like
really bad.
And if you see on my LinkedIn,this article I wrote about the
divorce is your fault.
That's that period of time in mylife, like she did end up
divorcing my father, blamed iton me being such a rebellious
child.
Um, I can even see some truth inthat my behavior was the

(18:55):
catalyst for them getting adivorce only in the sense that I
forced them to look at howdysfunctional their relationship
was because they couldn't uniteto parent me.
They couldn't agree.
Like I was acting out.
So like, yeah, there's somelogic behind.
If I would have just been a goodobedient kid, maybe they
wouldn't have gotten divorced assoon as they did.
But the divorce, like yourmarriage is that has nothing to

(19:16):
do with me.
You know what I mean?
Like your marriage is badbecause your marriage is bad
blaming the kid.
And I was 18 when I was 17 oryeah, I was 18 when she had said
this to me about, you know, thedivorce is your fault.
And I just knew in my gut, I'mnot, I wasn't a psych major.
I wasn't like even studying thenarcissistic family dynamics at
this point, but I just knew thatis so messed up.
That you would say that to me,like I know that's the last

(19:39):
thing that a parent should sayto their kid when they're going
through a divorce and I was 18then, and that was the start of
me really cutting out my mom.
I, I cut her out for about sixmonths, my senior year.
Let her back in, you know,realized she's toxic again,
caught her out again.
Let her back in.
I did this dance for a few yearswhere you kind of tell yourself,
well, maybe it'll be differentthis time with my mom.

(20:00):
You know, maybe she'll really bea mom and maybe she'll love me.
Oh man.
I definitely went back and forthfor years before.
Just finally realizing, you knowwhat, it's painful Shay, but you
got to pull this plug.
Oh my God, it's painful, but Igot to do it.
Yes, yes it is.
I mean, it's like divorce.
It's um, part of my message inmy Ted talk is that

(20:20):
relationships and you know, mostof them do and it doesn't
necessarily mean that somebodydid something wrong, but
relationships in nothing isforever.
Not even family relationships,you know, and people put all
this shame and guilt on you whena marriage ends.
What, when marriage, whenrelationships and it's usually
for the best.
I mean, it just, yeah, it is,you know, this is a hard thing

(20:42):
to do.
It's hard for people to wraptheir minds around.
And I want people to hear that,that you were to divorce for all
intents and purposes yourselffrom your family, from your mom.
And that is major.
You got big time guts, big[inaudible] and it opens you up
for way stronger relationships.

(21:03):
You know, like it might seeminnocent like, Oh, I still, you
know, hanging out with thesepeople.
Uh, they're not really goingwhere I want to go in life.
You know, they have differentgoals like that rubs off on you.
You know, you, you, you reallycan't attract the relationships
that you want if you're stillconstantly going back and
hanging out in that lowvibration.
So that's one thing I've foundis like all of my friends now

(21:25):
they're just so conscious.
So self aware of their wounds oftheir own insecurity and their
own darkness, you know, willingto talk about it.
That's, that's the kind offriendship I have with people.
You know, I have a friend whosaid to me the other day, Hey,
I'm noticing, um, she has agirlfriend they're really close.
And she's like, I'm noticing asshe's growing and building new
relationships, I'm not happy forher.

(21:47):
Even though I know objectively,it's good for her.
I'm a little insecure aboutlosing her as a friend and my
abandonment issues are comingup.
I'm like, wow, how great thatwe've just formed a community
where we can openly talk aboutthat.
Darkness, not shame her, notsay, Oh, that's manipulative of
you to not want your friend tohave a good life.
Cause you want to keep her closeto you.
It's like, no, this is whatexposes our wounds.
This is what takes us back toour childhood and allows us to

(22:10):
actually get to the point wherewe can do some digging where we
say, well, why do I have thisabandonment issue?
Why do I feel like, uh, if myfriend grows and actually
becomes a more evolved person,she's gonna leave me.
You know?
Um, so it's just one example oflike the relationships you can
cultivate.
Once you cut out thoserelationships who are not able
to do that, people start showingup and showing up.

(22:33):
And now the energy of my family,I mean, it was still difficult.
Cutting them out.
I still had doubt, you know oflike, am I doing the right
thing?
Am I going to regret this later?
Is my family really?
Right?
And I'm just crazy.
No, no, no, no.
None of that at all anymore.
Because with the community I'msurrounded with now and the way
we interact and talk openlyabout our wounds and live in

(22:53):
reality.
I mean, even just like a textfrom a family member, I'll feel
that energy like through thephone, I'll feel that like, I'm
like, I don't like computeanymore.
Like I'm just not on that.
Wavelength.
Everything is like an underlyingmanipulation.
Everything is living on thesurface and it's also finding
compassion for them.
You know, people will heal whenthey're ready.
Hey, you're just on this journeyright now.

(23:14):
You don't want to face reality.
That's fine.
I'm I'm over here.
I'm facing it whenever you'reready.
Give me a call.
I love it.
I feel that way.
Like with my ex husband who wasa major negative energy stuck
energy suck.
Yeah.
That's the term they use fornarcissists too.
Yes.
And, and um, yeah.
I don't know exactly what hisdrama is, but he's got drama and

(23:37):
throughout the marriage, she hadme in such an abused state until
I have like PTSD in relation tothe phone.
Cause it would be this thingwhere if phone rang, I had to
answer it.
You know what I mean?
Like, like you had to betrained, you know, you have to
answer my calls, you have torespond to my texts.
He will call, call, call, call,call.
And then when I would call her,if I didn't answer, you know
what I mean?
I'm going to get cussed out.
It's going to be nasty at home.
Like there was all of this.

(23:58):
And so like the phone, like, youknow what, I have me on edge.
Like he was gone out of my housefor probably about a year before
I was able to turn my ringerback on.
Wow.
Ingrained.
And even now, and he sends thetext message, just what you're
saying.
I can feel the energy, energythrough it.
And I'm just like, Oh my God, Idon't believe I was married to
you for saving years.
Isn't it crazy?
And that's the thing when peopleare in the relationship, it's

(24:21):
kind of like taking an objectlike this note pad right here.
And like having someone closetheir eyes, but then putting it
right here and then saying openyour eyes.
What is it?
You're in the relationship.
You're like, I don't, you know,but then you get out of the
relationship.
You're like, Oh, this isactually a notepad.
And I can see clearly there'swriting on the lines.
You know?
Like you, you don't see it untilyou're out of it.

(24:41):
And that's what happened to metoo.
Like I had doubts about startingto set boundaries with my acts,
like off just felt so dependenton this man.
So trained by him, as you said,like I had this programming in
my head, um, of all of thesethings that would just
strategically make me feel, uh,incapable and that I needed him.
And a few months out of therelationship, it is a complete

(25:01):
like I am like, how was I evenwith this person?
How, but that's what it is.
People can't see it when they'rein the relationship.
And that's where friends comeinto play, having good friends
who can see it, who artists andsay, Hey, I feel like, you know,
your relationship is a littletoxic.
I, Hey, I feel like he's likepretty controlling of you.
That's often not allowed in withnarcissistic partners because

(25:22):
they tailor pick who they wantyou to hang out with.
And they're very selective.
I know in my last relationshipit was like, no one was good
enough to hang out with us.
You know, nobody had our idealsor had our values and it was
this whole brainwashing of ifthey get close to us, we're not
going to be able to reach ourgoals, which there's truth in
that.
I just got done saying that,right?
It's all who you surroundyourself with.

(25:43):
But these people will use thatpersonal development jargon as
manipulation.
And I found myself with nofriends.
I had no girlfriends for years.
I was just like a slave to thisman, just living with him.
Once I started to letgirlfriends in this was right
before the breakup occurredright away.
These girls that I started toget close with.
I'm here in my new hometown.

(26:04):
It was like, they were like, hesomething's off shit.
And then the separation happenedshortly after that.
So that's the proof is if youhave friends, um, you know, ask
their opinion, genuinely ask alot of times friends won't
outwardly give their honestfeedback because they don't want
to hurt you.
They, you know, uh, don't wantyou to feel like they are being
controlling, but just ask, justbe honest, like, Hey, what do

(26:27):
you think of this new guy I'mdating?
Do you see the I've?
My behavior has changed at all.
Am my acting differently?
Do you feel like I'm losingmyself to this man?
Good friends will know, youknow, and good friends will keep
you grounded.
And that is what I did not havein the time dating that, man.
I completely had cut out all myfriends pretty early on in the
beginning, in the name of, youknow, progress and the name of,
okay, he's saying this is what'sgood for me.

(26:48):
So I'm going to do it.
I'm totally catastrophic.
You know, just, just totallyleft me broken and alone.
And uh, somehow, you know, Imustered the courage to get out,
but it really was because thingshad just gotten so bad year
after year, I was like, this is,this is not panning out the way
that I envisioned or the waythat he had convinced me it was

(27:09):
going to be.
And that's when like the innerintuition in me kicked in again,
like something in me, a wokenagain thing.
Thank God.
You know?
Cause I see so many women, theynever even get to that point.
They just stay stuck.
Um, I broke through it, youknow, I questioned, I was really
scared.
I had a business with him.
So I thought like, am I going tohave to go waitress again?
Like, I've start my business allover.

(27:30):
How could I make money withouthim?
It's like, no, like I had it inme the whole time.
He didn't want me to know that Ihad it in me the whole time.
You didn't want me to know thatI had that strength, those
smarts, that power to leave.
Um, but shortly after it wasover, I realized I'm so much
stronger without him.
But you do have to get throughthat discomfort, that rough
turbulent period where you feel,you feel like you're dying, like

(27:53):
leaving your comfort zone andsetting these boundaries for the
first time it's Sox.
I was heartbroken and the thingsended very poorly between us.
He hurt me, you know, justintentionally tried to hurt me.
Uh, one last like grasp thatcontrol of me during the
breakup.
But um, yeah, it doesn't affectme at all anymore.
I made it through and now myvibration is so high that like,

(28:14):
I just don't resonate with anyof that drama.
You know?
I don't like, there's nothing inme that wants to reconnect with
this man or like even ever talkto him again unless he decides
to heal.
Um, but yeah, just saveyourself.
You know, at the end of the day,we are conditioned.
A lot of times we are programmedto take care of other people.

(28:35):
And that comes from narcissisticparenting that comes from the
parents, putting their needbefore the child kind of
subconsciously programmingchildren to anticipate their
needs as the adults instead ofthe other way around.
So to get back to that true selfand understand, it's not selfish
for you to put yourself first,it's not selfish to set
boundaries and take care of yourown needs.

(28:56):
This is what makes a healthyhuman.
And once you're in that placewhere you are healthy and
evolved and healed, that's whenyou're going to attract the
partner, who's not going toabuse you and who's not going to
come into this relationship withthe belief that love is control
or manipulation.
Emotional abuse.
Love is just pure acceptance andno fear of rejection or being

(29:19):
abandoned by this person.
Oh my God.
I love that so much.
I am as a divorce lawyer, right?
I say to people that if you'rein a custody fight with
somebody, even though youhaven't been married, you're
still going through a divorce.
It's just a divorce without amarriage.
Yes.
And listening to you, even withyou and this gentleman, not
having kids together and thathaving a marriage that was still

(29:41):
a divorce, right.
That's a business.
So it was still a divorce.
And just sometimes let peopleunderstand that because they
feel like, Oh, I don't, I don't.
They feel like they don'tunderstand a divorce, so they
don't resonate with it, butthat's not true.
You don't have to be married tohave experienced that.
My foolish self, if I hadn'tbeen in your place, I have just

(30:02):
started having babies with aman.
Hoping that would've changed it.
How am I?
Gosh, I know.
Right?
And that's the thing.
A lot of people have kids from avery, they go into having kids
with the wrong energy.
They go into it thinking like, Iwant to have a lot of women,
especially, they're like, I wantto get pregnant.
I want someone to love me.
I want this baby.
So that they'll love me.
It's like, okay, you're notqualified to be a mother, but

(30:23):
it's, it's honestly reallycommon.
Um, I think that we're waking upnow to realize like, you know,
the way we've been raising ourchildren for so long, it's just
really off, you know, you can'tdeny the statistics, that
generation after generationwe've gotten sicker mentally.
Um, more and more women.
Uh, I believe the range is likeage 16 to 24 women age 16 to 24

(30:46):
suicide is, is, has shot up overthe yeah.
Like the, the way that we areraising our children is, um, not
conducive to them having ahealthy self esteem and loving
themselves.
And I think parents struggled toown that because they didn't
recognize it in their parents.
You know, they thought theirparents were just normal and
then they do the same thing withtheir kid.
And when anyone challenges themwith like, Hey, I think you're

(31:09):
really messing up your kid.
They get really defensive.
Was it like what?
You know, like I'm doingexactly.
Like they just, they can't ownthat.
You know, I know a woman whosedaughter died of heroin overdose
when she was 18.
It was her first time tryingheroin and she died.
And this was a single mom, heronly child.
This was like the love of herlife.
Her daughter, where on thesurface, it looks like, Oh,

(31:32):
she's such a killer mom.
She loves her kids so much, butit was still abuse.
How much she spoiled this girlwas abuse.
You know what I mean?
It comes from the same place.
It comes from.
I'm going to give the girlanything she wants so that she
just loves me.
And she sees me as this coolparent.
Who's just, it's again, themother operating from a place
of, I want your approval.
I want you to love me.
Not objectively looking at Hey,sometimes saying no to your kid

(31:54):
is the thing you need to do.
Sometimes giving themboundaries, giving them curfews
is the loving thing to do.
Um, so there's so many differentexamples, you know, like it can
show up in many ways.
And that's where I say thenarcissistic parenting people
don't always see it as like, Oh,but your dad didn't hit you.
You know, like it's so much morethan that.
This woman's spoiled herdaughter to death, but she
spoiled her to the point whereshe was doing drugs on

(32:17):
supervise.
And I mean, I still, I know thiswoman and I still see her having
a really hard time taking anyaccountability for being
involved in that death.
You know what I mean?
Just kind of like, Oh, I'm avictim.
My, my one and only child died.
It's like, you need to look atyourself.
How are you parenting her for 18years?
Like what was really theintention behind the

(32:37):
relationship?
Um, so on the bright side,whether she's seeing it, uh,
from the angle, I'm seeing ityet or not, this woman did
finally have to face herself,you know?
And it came through the form ofher daughter dying.
And then it was like, wow, Ihave abandonment issues.
I need to work on myself.
And I think that children canjust be a distraction from that.
You know, people have kids andthey don't ever do the inner

(32:58):
work.
And that kid is going to end upbeing your teacher, man.
Like that kid is going to end upbeing the one to show you where
you're still holding onto thetrauma.
You're still holding on tobitterness, resentment,
whatever.
Um, it all comes out in ourchildren.
You know, kids are a reflectionof their parents.
I really believe that.
I understand that there'sexceptions and certain things,
especially if like you adopted akid and you took on some other

(33:21):
family's energy, it might not beyour fault.
You know?
So there's different cases, butwhich 99.9% of the time your kid
is doing drugs, your kid isprostituting themselves.
Your kid has got like, it is,what did you do?
You know?
And I think that it's just hardfor parents to look at that.
And I want to, uh, open up aconversation and create a
community, create a world whereit's safe for these parents to

(33:45):
start to own their ownshortcomings and not get shamed
for it.
Like I mentioned before, we tendto like shame each other.
No, you know, if you arestarting to come, uh, it
starting to come into yourawareness that you are
manipulative, that you have darkintentions.
Um, and you can't voice that toyour friend to work through it.
Like your friends just shamingyou for even bringing it up or

(34:07):
even having it.
That's not a friend.
You know, you need to findpeople that aren't going to
shame you for having darkqualities.
It's a human element.
Humans are always going tostruggle with, you know, should
I manipulate this person rightnow?
Should I do the wrong thing?
Should I do the right thing?
That's part of our humanexperience, you know?
So to deny it in ourselves andjust walk around, like we're all
holier than now.

(34:27):
And anything that comes upthat's the darkness is so
shameful, you know, shame it outof you.
It just perpetuates it.
You know, it just makes itworse.
And that's what I saw in myparents was like, they just
couldn't own any of theirdarkness.
It was always someone else'sfault.
It was always, um, uh, therewere always a victim that
mentality gets you.
Nowhere.
Nowhere, the people who grow inlife are the people who take a

(34:48):
hundred percent accountabilityfor as, you know, as much as
they can, no matter how muchthey feel like they're the
victim, no matter how much theyfeel like they're just innocent.
And they were wronged.
Look at yourself.
Even me, look at myself.
What did I do to attract anarcissistic partner?
Well, I wasn't honoring myself.
I had a low self esteem.
Um, you know, I was, uh, Ididn't have a strong foundation

(35:11):
within me.
And that's why I attracted that.
So always focus on, you know, Iget it.
It's healthy to be like angry.
And when you realize you've beenvictimized, like you can be in
that place for a little bit.
That's part of the healing, butit's staying there.
That's the problem.
I mean, how many people do weknow that I've gotten divorced
and it's been like 10 years andthey're still talking about
there.
It's like, it's been 10 years.

(35:32):
You know, like I get it.
You can be there for a littlebit, like get like do your
thing, boom, like go through it.
But you have got to get pastthat.
Otherwise you're just nevergoing to grow and how, and that
really is my message.
Right?
Let's take responsibility andget unstuck when divorce comes
in.
So now here's going to be mycontroversial question that
we're going to controversialquestion.
Let's do it.

(35:52):
I guess the backstory would be,I don't know if you've ever seen
the movie Idiocracy I have, Ilove this one of my favorites.
Right?
Having a reality, butconceptually all the wrong
people, so to speak areappropriating and the people who
really would be able to raisekids.
Right.
Aren't doing it.
And yes and no part of yourmessage is you are not really

(36:12):
sure if you want to have kids,but listening to you with all of
this emotional intelligence anddevelopment you're doing, and
this self-awareness seems to me,like you'd be a great parent and
talk about it.
Yeah.
So thank you for that.
Um, a couple of things to unpackthere, you know, when I was a
kid and in that abusivesituation, I made a pact to

(36:35):
myself that I would never havekids.
I just said, you know what?
Like this, this lineage endswith me.
It wasn't like a sad thing.
I was not, um, uh, just not intouch with my, my motherly side.
Like, I, I couldn't even look atkids for years.
Couldn't even look at them.
I mean, my ex you know, asdamaged as he was, he had quite

(36:58):
the intuition too.
And he said to me, like, it'sreally bizarre that you like,
won't look at kids Shay, likewe're in the elevator.
You're like a fertile 25 yearold woman.
Like why?
Like you don't even like, looktwice at this adorable baby that
normal women would be, you know?
But that was my trauma.
That was my, like, I hated mychildhood.
I hated it.
So I just rejected childrenaltogether.

(37:20):
And, um, I didn't want to end uplike my parents.
That's why I made the pact tomyself.
I said, literally, I remember inmy bedroom, the moment I said to
myself, I will never makeanother kid feel the way that
you have made me to feel.
Even if that means I will neverhave my own children, like, fuck
it.
Like, I am not doing it.
And I have four sisters andthey're all the same.

(37:40):
None of them, none of them havekids.
I mean, I'm not close with them.
I don't really associate withthem.
So it could be changing.
But you know, we're all wellinto our late twenties,
thirties, and no, no one, no oneis thinking about having
children.
To me, that alone is a sign ofserious abuse.
How can you have five daughters?
And none of them are like, Ican't wait to have my own kids
it's because what we wentthrough, whether they're owning

(38:01):
it on a conscious level or not,it's, it's, it's a subconscious,
like, don't do it.
You know, just don't have kids.
So it's funny because now I'm tothe point where I'm healing a
lot of that, that wound traumaon getting in touch with my
maternal side, because that'salso a beautiful part of the
divine feminine.
You have to have a little bit ofthose maternal qualities to

(38:23):
really be in your divine,healthy, feminine, like to give
selflessly, to want to nurturepeople.
These are beautiful things andthings that I, along with
saying, you know, screwparenting, I'm never going to do
it.
I also shut down a part ofmyself that was just giving, you
know, and, and I, I became kindof a self absorbed individual,
which also I think did help mein business to like, not ever

(38:45):
focus on anyone but me.
But at the end of the day, as awoman, it's going to catch up
with you.
As a woman, I felt reallyunfulfilled.
I felt like, okay, I have allthis money in my bank account.
I'm doing all these masculineenergy things all the time.
I'm producing for society.
But like, where's my feminineside.
You know, where's my motherlyside.
Where is that?
And I do see that coming outmore and more, not that I want

(39:06):
to have kids now.
Um, but it's a considerationfinally, which I consider like a
big healing step for me to evenconsider that because it means
I'm starting to heal some ofthat bitterness toward children
and toward my own childhood.
However, all that being said,you know, my life coach, he has
a quote.
I love it so simple, but true.

(39:28):
He said, Shay, the only thingthat kids need is a hundred
percent of your attention.
That's.
Yeah.
So, so when you think about it,for someone like myself, who's
done a lot of work on thechildhood wounds.
Who's come to understandnarcissistic parenting and it's
prevalent in our society andit's negative impact.

(39:50):
You know, why would I just likego have my own kid that I can
raise, you know, perfectly withall the lessons I've acquired?
Why not?
Because that's going to takeaway my energy.
You know, I would rather be aplatform to educate all parents,
to create organizations andfoundations, to help all
children before just pumping outmy own.
And I think that's a key thingin our society that people just
don't do.
They just think I want my ownkids.

(40:10):
It's like, you really care aboutkids.
I mean, look at all these kidsin the orphanage, look at them,
you know, go create programs tohelp their childhood because
this is all of us, you know,just focusing on your own
bloodline.
It's a little like narrow-minded, you're not being a global
citizen.
You're not like contributing tothe greater good of all children
.
So I do think there's an elementof selfishness with having your

(40:33):
own kids.
I say, you know, like, okay,you're really itching to have
your own kids.
You want to start your family.
How about this for five?
You're going to wait five yearsbefore starting your own family.
And in those five years, you'restill going to pour all of that
energy that you would have topour into your kids.
Should you have it now, you'regoing to instead pour all that
energy for the next five yearsinto creating organizations for

(40:53):
helping already existing kids onthis planet.
You know, how much morebeautiful of a place would this
be?
What if everyone who had onekid, if they want a second kid,
there was a law.
And you know, I'm not reallyinto the government getting into
our, our stuff at all, but justhypothetically like a law where
you adopt one kid, you want asecond or third, like you have

(41:14):
to adopt the second or third kidnow, like, you ha you can have
your own, but then you shouldadopt.
And there's a lot that goes intoadoption.
Like I understand that's apersonal choice, but to me, it's
just sad that all of thesepeople claim, Oh, I really,
really want to be a parent.
I'm so nurturing.
I'm so loving, but they don'tconsider all of the who need
that

Speaker 1 (41:34):
already, who are existing on this planet and how,
Oh my God.
So this that resonated with mein two places are related or
unrelated.
That's how my mind works, right?
Yes.
So I was 36 years old when I hadmy very first child.
Yeah.
That's old.
Right?
So to recognize, you know what Imean?
Um, I had run for judge when Iwas 34 domestic and juvenile

(41:54):
court judge.
Wow.
After my first divorce.
And when that marriage endedwith no kids, I was pretty
confident that I was never goingto have any children.
Um, also some shame associatedwith an abortion I had when I
was 21.
Oh, leave that I probably couldnever have kids.
That was my chance.
You're not going to have them.
It's just not something that'sin your future.
Don't even want it.
Wow.

(42:14):
Wow.
Right.
So not as bad quite as you asnot looking at kids, but very
similar.
Like I didn't engage with otherpeople's babies and stuff.
Like I just, I didn't feel likeit was something I would have
yeah.
Air for.
I didn't want it.
So I thought, you know, so afterthe run for judge, I get a
foster care license becausewhile I was on the campaign
trail, I ran in all these fosterkids.

(42:35):
And what their story was is tobe a foster parent.
All you need is love.
You know, you don't have to beperfect.
You don't have to have anythingcan you love so I can love, then
you can be a foster parent.
And so I thought, okay, here'smy chance.
Right.
To really make a difference inthe world because I'm not going
to have my own bloodline being afoster parent and amazing time.

(42:56):
And then I find myself pregnant.
Wow.
All that happens.
Do you know what I mean?
And so I know how it happens,you know, they do have an idea.
Yeah.
Like registering to be thefoster parent.
They're all like, what's thisabout now?
Like, can you not have kids?
You know, there's all thesequestions.
And I'm just like, no, I don'tknow.
Whatever.
Just seems like the right thingto do.
So when I, I find myselfpregnant, when I found out I was

(43:19):
pregnant pretty early insomething happened.
And I thought that I had lostthe baby.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
And that moment I was so devastated and hurt and I
experienced a kind of loss and alonging that it was like, Oh
shit, I do want to be a mom.
Wow.
Like I didn't even know orconceptualize that until there
was actually a baby in mystomach that I thought I had

(43:47):
lost.
So it was a very, it was aninteresting place to end up, but
I know what you're saying.
There's so much love to give,you know, and, and, and, and
there's other ways to do it.
So that made that stuck out tome.
And then the other thing wasabout how limiting it is to just
be focused on kind of that onenarrow area in this case, when
you can have a global impact.

(44:08):
And that was the message thatresonated with me, because this
is why I shut down my law firm,because it was very limited and
narrow, almost selfish that Icould only help one person at a
time, you know?
And just with this one smallarea of their divorce, when
really divorces all of theseareas, right.
That comes from thinking aboutdivorce to actually getting

(44:29):
divorced.
People who need a divorce andare actually in a marriage.
Like I couldn't help them.
And so the way to really make animpact globally, to remove the
stigma from divorce, to removethe fear, the guilt, and the
shame associated with it so thatpeople can be their best and
highest selves.
I had to completely separatemyself.
You know what I mean?

(44:49):
From that thing, which kind of,it was kind of selfish.
Like I know how to make moneylike that.
I know how to do it.
It's relatively easy.
Yeah.
But am I really making an impacton the world?
Am I really being my best self?
Am I doing what God called me todo?
Yeah, exactly.
I do think a lot of

Speaker 2 (45:06):
people have kids from a really unhealed place.
It's just like, Idiocracy whatyou said.
You know, if you're, uh, moreconscious about what it really
takes to raise a child, how muchof an investment that really is
because it's about them.
You know, it's not about you,you're your life and not to
sound dark, but like your lifekinda ends in a sense when you

(45:28):
have your own kids, I mean, itbecomes about them.
Um, so just like I said,focusing that energy somewhere
else, you're, you're inevitably,if you become a parent, you're
going to exert so much energyraising that one, that, to those
three kids.
Um, I just challenge people, youknow, like, can, you can do it.
You can still have killed kids,your own kids and build a

(45:50):
healing empire around parentingto help other parents, you know,
there there's people out therelike that, but just consider how
much time and energy it's goingto take away from everything
else you're doing.
And, you know, if you really,really, truly in your gut want
to help kids look around, that'sall you have to do is look
around.
I mean, really you thinkbringing your own kid into this

(46:11):
world is going to, is going tohelp.
Like, you're just magicallygonna raise this Messiah and
he'll fix everything.
You know, it's just, it's silly.
It's like we should fix what wealready have.
And, um, you know, it, it alsocomes down to, um, it is
biological people want, there,there's a, there's a primal need
to want to recreate your ownbloodline.
Like I get that.

(46:31):
And in even like a, like anatural narcissistic of like, I
want to see if they look like mekind of thing, you know, I get
that.
That's a real thing.
That's a human like, likebiology.
Like I'm not going to denyscience.
However, we have to look at one.
Science is no longer conduciveto the current environment.
We were no longer primal beingsin the wild that need to produce

(46:53):
our own bloodline to create ateam.
And Hey, we're all of thisbloodline where together, we're
a force.
It's like, that's not necessaryanymore.
We're all intertwined.
And, um, it doesn't necessarilyhave to be your same, your same
bloodline.
So I think the biology is a bigpart to kind of like understand
that, Hey, if you're wantingyour own kids more than adopting
or helping others, that'snatural to, you know, like not,

(47:14):
not totally shaming.
It like that, that really doescome from a real biological
place.
I just think that biologicalprogramming doesn't actually
serve as much anymore in themodern world.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
And how, Ooh, Oh, that's so heavy Shea.
Oh my God.
I'm so glad.
You're my guest today.
I don't like

Speaker 2 (47:30):
it.
Bad enough.
There was so much juiciness inhere for the people to learn for
them to get.
And I think I'm going to leaveyou with, I'm going to let you
leave us with a few partingwords.
I'd like, um, actually, I guessthere's a lot of stuff I want
you to say, cause you're justgoing to talk us on out, but
definitely how we can get incontact with you.
Um, you know, people need yourhelp, but also just some advice

(47:52):
or I don't know, resources,people to talk to because your
emotional intelligence andmindset girls and personal
transformation, like help us getsome of what you got.
Girl.
Yes.
Watch, watch Gaia.
Have you heard of Gaia?
Gaia?
Yeah.
It's like G a I a it's like aconscious Netflix.
There's so much good stuff onthere.

(48:13):
If everyone turned off Netflixand turned on Gaia, that that
would help.
Uh, but just reading books, youknow, for me, the, the book that
I started down this journey withwhen I was first really making
the decision to fully cut out,my mom was a book by Susan
forward.
It's called mothers who can'tlove it is so deep.
I feel like every daughter who'sstruggling with a mother
daughter dynamic needs to readthat book.

(48:35):
Um, another great one is thenarcissistic family model by
Stephanie Donaldson that isactually written for therapists,
but it's, it's easy enough todigest.
I got a lot from that.
A lot of understanding, a lot ofclarity around my own family.
Um, but you know, just to end, Iwould say my parting words for
anyone out there, going throughanything, you know, looking to

(48:56):
level up, looking to rise,looking to meet your goals is
just focus on yourself as muchas you can control, what can I
control?
And any time you get triggered,you know, like they say,
triggers are bad, you know,trigger warning.
You know, you got to be safe,not to trigger people, screw
that triggers are good.
You know, triggers teach us whatwe're still holding onto that we

(49:18):
need to work.
You know what I mean?
Like imagine if, imagine if wenever got triggered, like we
wouldn't grow triggers somethinglike, Oh, I'm jealous of that
girl.
Or, Oh, like, I feeldisrespected by that guy.
All of those triggers areteaching you something about
yourself.
What are you still holding onto?
And I think when you turn theattention inward, that's when
you really start to do thegrowth work.
So if you're someone who'seasily triggered by

(49:39):
relationships around you, by theenvironment, you know, go
inward, go inward, go inward.
As much as you can ask, what amI doing to create this?
We are sourced.
You know, we are God, but we'renot separate from godly.
Lots of churches to teach.
Like God's here.
You're, it's like, no, we areGod.
Like we all have it in us.
We have the power.

(49:59):
Um, but it's not going to comefrom trying to control external
things.
You know, blaming Trump, blamingthe Democrats, whatever it might
be like, you have to go inward.
And I think this, uh, Coronavirus and everything that's
shaken up in the world right nowis a great opportunity for
people to do that because a lotof people are being triggered by
the virus either.
You know, they're afraid they'regoing to get infected by it, or

(50:21):
they're triggered by the wayit's being handled by the
government.
Even something like that, whereyou really feel like, Oh God, I
got to do something.
I got to have a voice.
I got to go inward.
You know what I mean, controlyourself.
What can you control andeverything, all of the healing
starts there.
So just turn it in word as muchas you can stop controlling
other people and learn how togenerate the love and validation

(50:43):
in on yourself so that you'renot seeking it externally.
Ooh.
So that you're not seeking itexternally.
Like we could have a wholeepisode just on that.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
About my LinkedIn.
Yeah.
Seeking it.
Well, that's what happened.
You know, I went down the pathof, I want to be an entertainer.
I want to be an entertainer.
I didn't realize I was seekingexternally.

(51:04):
That's why I wasn't, I couldnever really fully evolve or
thrive as an entertainer becauseI was doing it from a place of
need rather than a place of likeI'm evolved.
And I genuinely want to sharethis information with people.
I just genuinely want to providethis value.
Oh.
And a perk is intern.
I get attention, but it's notattention that I need any more
to feel good and okay.

(51:25):
About myself.
And actually one last thing I'llend.
I will sometimes just do thatexercise of myself, of, Hey, if
your entire followingdisappeared tomorrow, how good
would you feel about yourself?
Shay?
Like, would you still love andappreciate yourself as much as
you are now having thatfollowing and having that cloud,
you know, that business it'slike just practice in your mind.

(51:46):
Like if I lost my job, if I lostall the money in my bank
account, if I lost anything, howwould I feel about myself right
now?
That's the core that you got tobuild?
Yeah.
Love it.
How would I feel about myselfright now?
Oh my God.
Thank you so much.
So you have to run, so I'm notgoing to hold you past your
time.
Just thank you so much.
Thank you all for listening toasshole parents with Christian

(52:07):
family and our first celebrityguest today.
Shay robots home, please likeshare, subscribe and thanks
again.
Yes.
Thank you so much.
All right.
Thank you.