Ever wondered what military strategies can teach us about thriving in the cutthroat world of business? My co-host, Dallin, and I draw from my Marine Corps School of Infantry experience to share the audacious tactic of 'fighting fire with superior fire' and its surprising relevance to facing challenges in entrepreneurship. We dissect the aggressive stance Utah's Crumble Cookies took in their legal battles and discuss when it might be time for businesses to charge forward into the fray, rather than duck and cover.
As we navigate through the episode, expect to unravel the secret sauce to setting colossal goals and the tenacious attitude needed to achieve them. You'll hear how a 'never surrender' mindset, akin to historical strategies of burning the ships, can stimulate growth and resilience. We also dissect the absolute necessity of practice and commitment to achieve mastery in any field, reflecting on personal journeys and the pivotal moments that transform dedication into expertise. Join us for this gripping conversation that promises to arm you with the strategies to turn adversity into your ally and perseverance into your path to success.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the show, guys.
It's Wayne Aston here, withAston Incorporated.
I'm your host and joining me inthe studios Dallin Aston.
Oh yeah how you doing today,dallin.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh man, if I was doing any better, I don't know
what I would do with myself.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You ready for this today?
Ready today?
Today, guys, we're coveringanother big one and I want to
kick this off with fight firewith superior fire.
Okay, so we're gonna go, we'regonna go back to the Marine
Corps School of Infantry tacticsand we're gonna talk the
tactics of a Marine Corpsmachine gunner and how that can
(00:40):
apply to business.
Okay, so I want to lead thisoff with this actual attack.
This is an actual tactic fightfire with superior fire,
specifically with regards toambush tactics.
So Imagine we're in a five-manfire team or a column and we're
walking along a jungle trail andyou know some, some foreign
(01:03):
country, and we get ambushed byOne or more sides.
What's the natural reaction?
Why don't you take a guessbefore we dive in?
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So we're walking, you're walking home or a
five-man like fire team.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We're walking down a trail in a jungle and we get
ambushed from the side.
Yeah, let's say that they're upon a hill above Above us,
because that would be thetactical advantage.
Point was up, okay, and they'refiring down on us at the trail.
What would be the knee jerk,what reaction?
What do you think you know weshould do about responding to an
ambush?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Probably cover right return fire.
I Mean I don't know what you'relooking for, like what?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
What's the knee jerk?
Like, like, with no trainingand, no, no perspective on it.
You say cover.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I'd say, well, if our we're in the jungle, yeah,
getting the trees fun shot outshoot out, shoot back.
Yeah, what are you looking for?
That's the natural thing.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So so the actual tactic is Return fire and head
straight into the fire.
So, okay, interesting, so wewould be.
We were trained to actuallyreturn heavy fire but run right
into where the fire was comingfrom.
It's an unorthodox approach.
So why is that?
Statistically speaking, thechance of survival is greater if
(02:27):
we don't run and hide, but ifwe hit the ambush head-on with a
, with a superior fire response,right in the right into, like
an immediate counter up the hill, what happens is they don't
want to get shot, we're throwinglive lead to, and so you, you,
even the plane field out inquite a ways when you don't
(02:49):
respond to the fear response offinding cover.
So running right into an ambushis the that's official Marine
Corps tactic if we're at ainfantry, infantry in the jungle
.
Okay, guys, so Interesting.
That was really cool for me tolearn that and be trained on
that as a machine gunner,because it has so much practical
(03:11):
life application.
Number one it's unorthodox, andso much about what we talk
about in entrepreneurship isunorthodox.
It's the answer that youwouldn't think about, or it's
the answer that it seems likeit's suicide.
Okay, and and so you have to.
Now, again, you rely on data,you rely on statistics, you rely
(03:33):
on training, you rely oncommanders and and and warriors
who have been in multipleconflicts, who have this is a
battle-tested tactic.
So you have to.
You have to mentally like,adapt to the fact you know right
.
This is why we do this right.
So now, when we talk about youknow being entrepreneurs, oh my
(03:55):
gosh, when we meet resistance,what do we do?
Think of resistance in businessas an ambush.
I mean, think of.
We got a crazy situationhappening in Utah right now.
Might not be the best analogy,but it's relevant.
You know, we got crumblecookies, this big cookie
juggernaut, and they makeamazing cookies.
(04:17):
But we have two othercompetitors in Utah coming up
and there's this big lawsuit.
Crumble cookies just sued thesetwo other companies, these
cookie companies for wild, whoknows?
I think, logo infringement,trademark infringement, I'm not.
I'm not clear on the details,guys, but but you know, if
you're the smaller guy andyou're getting hit with
(04:38):
litigation, what you know, whatare the options.
I don't want to go into thatand try and quarterback what
those cookie companies should dogetting fired on by the
juggernaut.
But a successful entrepreneuris going to take fire and Then
one of a couple things willhappen You're gonna take fire
and collapse and you could dieand the business goes out of
(04:59):
business when you, when you takefire.
And big companies know this,guys, big real estate developers
know this, they know and biglenders know this.
You know I have a lot ofexperience with some of these
big, these big private equityfunds and they know that.
You know they I feel like partof their underwriting of a
(05:21):
sponsor or a developer aborrower has to do with, you
know, do they have thehorsepower or the wherewithal to
weather a storm?
And that will drive whetherthey bring litigation or what
kind of tactic they use againstme as an entrepreneur.
And I can tell you fromexperience I have one lender we
(05:43):
might get into names and detailsand talking about this
particular lender, who I, whoall refer to unanimously as
Satan, or it's either thislender or Satan.
They're the same.
Interchangeably, notunanimously.
I'll refer to interchangeably,very predatory company, very
predatory company, and you knowthey're, they're not afraid of
(06:06):
litigation, I'm not afraid oflitigation.
But but what happens when a big,well-funded company Decides to
bring litigation out and playthat nasty, that nasty game?
Entrepreneurs have a decisionto make and a Lot of the time
the decision is driven by theamount of capital, because to
(06:27):
fight a legal war, you you haveto have a War chest, you have to
have capital and and sometimesyou just can't win that,
sometimes you have to, you haveto fight.
You're forced to find asettlement or die or just let
the business go out of business.
Right, but sometimes, dependingon the circumstances, and if
you have the, if you happen tohave the word chest and you
(06:50):
happen to have the, the facts,then you have integrity.
Then fighting fire withsuperior fires.
The answer, because no onewants to go into a protracted
litigation situation two years,three years in in legal warfare,
and if a big fund Can't win insix months and it's gonna get
(07:13):
protracted, they're gonna bepaying their attorneys hundreds
of thousands of dollars in theprocess as well.
So so you know I want to.
I don't want to get too deepinto the legal strategy because
that's Actually potentially awhole other episode.
I just want to keep focused onthe mentality of this Resisting
(07:34):
the ambush tag this, this tacticOkay, and how we apply it.
One thing I'd have everyoneconsider is that as
entrepreneurs We've got to trainourselves to expect miracles.
Okay.
To me it feels miraculous if Iimagine I'm on a trail and I'm
carrying my m60 and I got a.
(07:56):
You know, I got one of my guysbehind me with an m16, I got
another guy over here withsomething else and we get fired
on.
I try to put myself in thatsituation and and imagine you
emotionally the reaction.
Now I've never been in combatguys.
I think I made that disclaimerearly on.
I was one of the most blessed,fortunate guys to be back to
(08:19):
back conflict.
So I enlisted in the MarineCorps in 1993, went to boot camp
three days after graduation,turned 18 in boot camp in the
gas chamber On my birthday.
I got to do gas chambertraining.
But I was going through schoolof infantry down in Camp
Pendleton back in 93 and 94.
(08:40):
And this is right on the heelsof that unit that I was attached
to being on an activedeployment in the first invasion
of Iraq Desert Storm.
I discharged in 2005.
And six months later my unitfound themselves in Afghanistan.
So a decade of service, nevercombat deployed, and I know I'm
(09:05):
going to have good friendslistening to the show who are
combat deployed or were combatdeployed, and so I don't want to
put myself out there as somewar hero, because that's not
what I'm saying.
All I'm saying is we learnedsome really great things in all
of the training over a decade,and it's applicable to being an
entrepreneur.
Expecting miracles has a lot todo with this.
(09:28):
If we're going to actually turnand run into fire, you have to
believe there's a God.
For me, anyways, speaking formyself, I had to really
understand that God has a planfor me.
He's not wanting me to die inthis conflict.
The only way I'm going to do itis I'm going to trust that God.
I'm going to trust the training.
(09:49):
I'm going to trust that God isgoing to miraculously get me
through this event.
And a lot of the time when Italk about the apocalypse events
of a business owner or anentrepreneur, it feels like
bullets raining down.
It feels like everyone wants tosue me, everyone wants to give
(10:10):
me death threats.
There's a lot of black darknessthat can come in a business
failure and it's a lot likebeing ambushed, and so I'd have
everyone consider listening thatexpecting miracles is one of
the magic superpowers you candevelop, and to me it's required
(10:31):
.
If I'm not expecting miracles,like when I get up every day, I
know what my day looks likebecause I reviewed my calendar
or my schedule for the day thenight before.
I like to go to bed reviewingthe calendar the day before
Starting to know what the daycould look like based on my
calendar.
(10:52):
But I'm also very careful when Iget up in the morning and I'm
doing my meditation, I'm havinggratitude and I'm spending that
first hour or so of my morningin gratitude with God and just
communing with God that I'm opento anything.
I'm open to actual miracles.
I'm open to the fact that hewould manifest miracles through
(11:12):
me today that are not even onthe calendar or not even in my
awareness.
Sometimes that could be reallybig things I've been working on
for a year, two years, sixmonths.
Sometimes it could be somethingout of the blue.
So I'd have you all considerjust an open mind in your daily
kind of get up and get thingsmoving that it's critical to
(11:34):
have the open mind and expect amiracle.
Yeah, okay, I think it's amajor major.
We're all shorting ourselvesdramatically if we don't believe
that a miracle's possible today, if we think a miracle's
possible next year after we'vedone all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's not a miracle, right Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And this kind of brings me into a whole nother
thing around setting targets andconsidering if what I'm doing
is big enough.
If I don't believe in miracles,then I have a propensity to set
targets that I know I can hitand I have a little, I have,
(12:15):
certainty around hitting targets.
And what I'd have you consideris that it's important in this
process and this programming ofyour own self, your programming,
your soul and your heart andyour mind, to expect miracles,
that we're setting targets andwe're having expectations that
(12:36):
God will manifest miracles withme.
I expect that, so it becomespart of my day and then, when it
happens, I'm prepared for itand I can see it and I can
recognize it and it's mucheasier for me to find gratitude
in it as it happens.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Any thoughts on that, dallin, I'm dropping a lot here
on you rapid fire right now.
Yeah, one thing you said if Idon't expect miracles, this is
kind of what I got out of it.
If you don't expect miracles,then you're gonna set
comfortable targets, yeah, andas we all know, there's no
comfort in a growth zone and nogrowth in a comfort zone, right.
And so when I hear that I'mgoing, that's an interesting
(13:14):
perspective because it's likeyou know, you obviously want to
go in and you know there's allthe gurus who will say, wake up
at 4 am and just hustle andgrind and work for the next five
years that you can have, youknow, set yourself up for the
rest of your life, like all thatstuff.
But at the end of the day, whatwe're really talking about is
(13:37):
expecting that.
You know, as you getuncomfortable, miracles will
happen.
That's really all we're saying,right, it's like it's not
necessarily telling you to wakeup at 4 am, yeah.
It's not necessarily tellingyou to do this, that or the
other.
It's saying expecting thosemiracles will change your
(13:58):
perspective.
And that's what it's saying tome right now.
You're not saying any specific.
When I wake up at 4 am, I'meating this and I'm eating this
and I'm doing this.
It's not necessarily a hey, goreplicate my morning routine.
That's not what you're saying.
What you're saying is right.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, today I'm not talking about the specifics of
my morning routine, right nowI'm talking broad strokes of the
mentality Right, we're talkingthe mentality that goes into
growth and expansion.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, that's right Right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And we could get into .
I think there is value inhaving a morning routine and
having these different thingsand having this discipline, but
that's not what we're talkingabout here and what you're
saying.
To me it transcends just a.
I wake up and I'm saying yeah,I expect miracles.
No, it's like a no, it's like amindset, it's a way of living
(14:57):
right, it's engraving on yourheart.
It's like I know that, as I runinto the fire, that I am going
to be okay because I'm relyingon expect, believing that
miracles are gonna happen,believing that God is I'm doing
what he wants me to do.
Yep, almost.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, yeah, and a part, an extension of that, and
tying this all back to thisMarine Corps tactic, this ambush
tactic, is never surrender.
Okay, we're cultivating andprogramming our minds to to
expect miracles.
At the same time, we're alsoprogramming ourselves to never
(15:37):
surrender.
We talked about this a fewepisodes back.
How many times, if I getknocked down, I'm gonna get back
up?
Well, never surrender iscrucial, guys, in the game of
entrepreneurship and in the gameof real estate.
Okay, it happens more often thannot that when we encounter
turbulence or resistance or fireor whatever you wanna call it,
(16:02):
the propensity is to pivot awayand find something new, or to
give up all together.
And, and so you talk about alot of.
There's so many cliches hereand we're gonna, we're gonna
maybe, maybe air on the side ofsplitting hairs.
But you've heard the, you'veheard of, you've heard of the
(16:27):
cliche burn all of the ships,yeah, okay.
And you've heard of these greatlegends of Greek warriors, you
know, invading, invading aterritory, and they would, you
know, come into a certain newterritory and they would burn
the ships in the harbor becausethat would seal off any retreat
potential.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, and they would be there to either die or
succeed, right, and you hearabout that at Sea of Cortez.
You hear about that with Cortezleading an army into the Aztec.
You know interior, and that'sactually what they did.
You know, burn the ship.
I'd have you consider that wehave to cultivate this attitude
(17:08):
around business, Like if we'resetting our mind to do something
, then there has to be a nosurrender attitude.
And a lot of the times we canreally we can shoot ourselves in
the foot when we put timingexpectations around things.
So one of the things I can'tcontrol is time, and so when I
(17:31):
put expectations around thetiming of how fast this
project's supposed to happen, orhow fast we ought to be able to
raise that capital, or how fastwe ought to get that product to
market, whatever it is, timingcan be one of those dicey.
It's a tightrope.
We've got to set deadlines,we've got to push ourselves and
the company to hit deadlines.
(17:51):
You know, I love hearing aboutSteve Jobs and his engineers
when he's developing the iPhone.
I love hearing about themcoming to him and saying, hey,
you know, this glass that youwant to use on these phones is
like this, is this next levelglass, and I mean we're building
up our manufacturing processesto be able to fulfill this, but
(18:12):
you know we need two more weeks.
And he's like well, if you canget it done in two weeks, you
can have it done on the deadlinein two days.
And he gently like took themoff of that, that wanting to
pivot and wanting to extend andhe and they rallied and they
made it happen.
So there's just some strength inthe resilience of the mind when
(18:38):
we embrace this never surrenderattitude and we're ready to
kind of.
You know, arnold Schwarzeneggertalks about not having plan.
You know plans B and C.
There's one plan and it'sexecute the plan right.
What is this bringing up foryou?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It.
You know it makes me think alot of different thoughts, but
I'm thinking about my life andwhat this looks like.
You know, I mean I have what I,you know, a year ago, my vision
for what I wanted my life tolook like is different than it
is now.
Oh yeah, and so I'm thinking alot about this.
I'm like, okay, you know, ayear ago I had this vision, I
(19:20):
had this this is the path.
But as I continued on that pathand met resistance and met
different things, that pathmorphed into something bigger.
As I became more of the personthat could create what I was
creating, my perspective changed, that or the other changed, and
(19:43):
then things opened up to me andthings became clear and it's
like, oh, I didn't think of thatbefore.
And it becomes different.
And I think an aspect of thisis being so strategic and
calculated and also, at the sametime, willing to adapt you know
cause Flexible yeah.
(20:05):
Cause, if, and as you're talking, this thought just keeps coming
back to me.
It's like, man, you know, if Iwere to have just continued on
the path that I set out on andmaybe that's the wrong way of
saying it but if I would havejust not been flexible to change
two or three years ago, I wouldnot be where I am right now.
Absolutely there is no doubt inmy mind.
(20:28):
I would be completely different, spot right, and I can't say if
that would have been asuccessful or a failure, like I
just I don't know.
But looking back, I'm sittinghere going this, what I am
currently doing and what I willbe doing in the future is bigger
than what I could even dream ofback when I was doing the
(20:52):
guitar hackscom.
Oh, yeah.
You know what I mean.
Like doing these little thingshere, rise marketing.
These little things you know,getting on this path, it's like,
okay.
Well, what does never surrendermean?
I don't believe that.
It means you are super strictto one thing.
Exactly, it means I am neversurrendering to this idea of my
(21:16):
personal growth, and that's whatthe podcast is about, right?
Yeah, that's right, it's likemy personal growth, my service
and my dedication to God, topeople, to value creation.
It's not necessarily to oneaspect of this because, those
things change markets change,business plans change, customer
(21:36):
values change, like all thisstuff changes, and if you're not
gonna be committed to that, notcommitted to the fact that
things change, then you areultimately gonna fail and fall
behind and then you're gonna diein the ambush right.
And so that's kind of where mythought goes.
It's like, yeah, if you'regoing on this path, then yeah,
(21:59):
burn the ships, but don't be anidiot, I get what I'm trying to
say Don't be, you know, like,for example, for me.
I have a job.
I have, but it directlycorrelates to what I'm doing,
because the experience I'mgaining there is invaluable to
what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's all part of the expansion plan, the big plan of
the highest version of you.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yes, yeah, and it's not a nine to five.
It doesn't suck much and I'mnot saying maybe you don't have
it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It could be and it could still support your highest
and best version of you being anine to five, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think
it's wise and I don't think it'slike this whole thing when
we're talking about burning theships.
I don't believe that justsaying oh, I have an idea and
then quitting your job andselling your, I do not believe
that is the answer.
(22:58):
I do not believe that's thepath.
I believe that it requires anextra level of commitment, like
saying, hey, you know, maybe I'min this position right now.
You have to take an honestacknowledgement and honest look
at where you're at currently,where you want to go and how do
you bridge from point A to pointB and then never quit on that.
Right, it's like, okay, if youcurrently have a job you hate,
(23:21):
well, where do you want to beand what can you do now that can
get you to there?
It might not be quitting yourjob today.
It might be.
It might be Right.
And if you're, you know, maybeyou started a business and now
you're a slave to your business.
Well, where do you want to be?
Maybe you hate that, where doyou want to be?
Okay, well, how do you getthere?
It might not be just dissolvingyour business.
(23:43):
It might be.
Right, I guess what I'm tryingto say is like it's this
calculated commitment towardsthat growth, and I don't always
think it's exactly black andwhite.
I guess what I'm trying to sayis different, for everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That's true, that right.
There is a major expectation, amajor definition for any
entrepreneur considering gettinginto this game.
It's never black and white.
The conditions are neverperfect.
It almost never will end up theway you envision it, so you've
got to be cultivating.
(24:25):
There's this whole battery ofphilosophy, there's a whole.
There's myriad moving parts andpoints of view to incorporate.
All I'm saying is the sum ofall of this.
Programming are critical pointsof programming If it weren't for
every second of every minute ofevery day, I wouldn't be
(24:45):
exactly who I am, sittingexactly right here with you in
this moment, in this amazingstudio, this amazing place, if
it weren't for all of that, nowin hindsight, looking back,
would I have planned that?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh my God no, no right, there's just no chance I
wouldn't have had the courage, Iwould not have the courage to
go through it If you would haveknown what you were about to
embark on.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I love that thought.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's like if you would have known, you probably
wouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And that's part of why I believe God has such a
unique way of manifestingmiracles through us and with us,
because he only lets us seeenough that the current version
of our self can accept.
And it has to be uncomfortable,like I'm not talking about
(25:40):
notice, I didn't say God onlylets us see what we're
comfortable with.
He only lets us see enough ofwhat we can accept, and it could
be excruciatingly difficult.
Challenging might seemimpossible, should seem
impossible if we really believein manifesting miracles, but
(26:00):
that's part of the daily, that'spart of the daily right is
waking up and having a mind andenergy that's committed to this.
So there's this flexibility,there's this I'm never quitting.
There's this if I meetresistance, I'm going to become
bigger, faster.
I'm going to learn, I'm goingto question, I'm going to ask
(26:22):
better questions.
Who do I have to become to dothat?
What do I have to learn toovercome this?
And then there's this resolvethat I'm committed to do
whatever it takes to go do that.
And you're constantly pivotingon this path.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So what does it take, what does it look like for
someone, for us, to obtain theseattributes of expecting
miracles?
Because anyone can say, like wecan just say right now oh yeah,
this is what you need to do.
You need to expect miracles,right, but what's the way,
what's the path that we canpractice and acquire this view,
(27:01):
this outlook, right?
How can I practice expectingmiracles?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How can I?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
practice setting uncomfortable targets.
How can I practice?
And maybe that's, I guess,maybe that's a way right, but
how can I practice running intothe ambush, Like you?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
know what I mean.
The shitty thing about theanswer to that question is is
not what you want to hear?
How do you practice cultivating?
Well, it means you have to getshot at.
It means you have to.
It means you have to have somefailure.
It means you've got toencounter some serious
discomfort.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So that's exactly what I was looking for, because
I want it to be very clear thatthe only way to really acquire
these skills or in Claff talksabout it and pitch anything and
flip the script in his books.
It's like you can't get goodjust reading a book.
You can understand theprinciple, but until you get in
(28:00):
and you actually are doing this,then it's not going to become
part of you.
I think that's super important.
That's why I asked the question, because you know it's like
well, how do you acquire theseattributes?
How do you acquire the skills?
You put yourself in scenarioswhere you're forced to acquire
them and then you actively sayoh man, I'm experiencing this, I
(28:25):
can.
Now, I have the opportunity tochoose if I'm going to or not.
Right, you know, making thedecision prior is probably it's.
You know that's the way to doit.
So you're saying, hey, look,I'm gonna go into it, but it's
saying it and doing it arecomplete different things right
so you're gonna say it and then,when you get to, that that's
the way to practice.
From what I'm hearing, you say,like that's the way to practice
(28:47):
.
It's like you have to be inthat situation and then actively
say I already decided I wasgonna do this.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So in that, that's your, that's your opportunity to
become more.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
That's right.
Everyone wants to be a gangsteruntil it's time to do gangster
shit.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
And then when it hits , the rubber meets the road no
one wants to be a gangsteranymore.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It's like, oh, we could die doing this.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You're absolutely right.
I have a hundred things goingthrough my head.
I'm currently reading a bookcalled Outliers by Malcolm
Gladwell and I'm only a couplechapters in, but I love what
he's what he's getting into withOutliers, because he's talking
about the 10,000 hour theory andhe's talking about he's
unpacking what you're talkingabout.
What does it take for someoneto go from two years old or so
(29:32):
to a professional athlete or aworld-class violinist or pianist
?
He talks about Mozart and, youknow, being the greatest
composer of all time.
Well, most, most people justassume that Mozart was born with
all this natural skill and thisgift and he did have a gift.
However, you know, he points outthat Mozart's dad helped
(29:56):
compose a lot of his early works, and when he was a child he
would put things in front of him, whoa and and.
Mozart wasn't composing thisstuff as a young man.
In fact, he didn't make his, hedidn't make his most well-known
work until he was like 26 yearsold and he, and so he, and
there's, there's this whole,there's this whole chain
(30:20):
reaction kind of ladder tostudying Mozart's life from a
child to the greatest composerthat's ever been known and what
that took.
And you and and you shouldcheck that book out, outliers,
because it's fantastic, becauseyou understand that influences
(30:43):
and programming, and beyondinfluences and programming,
beyond the environment choices,and you know what we do on a
daily.
How many hours do we actuallycommit to this?
Professional athletes puttingin you know, three to eight
hours a day, and how fast can weget to the 10,000 hours?
(31:06):
And then only once you hit the10,000 hours under your belt can
you consider yourselfproficient enough to do your
best work.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's an interesting thing, guys, and so you know,
think about as an entrepreneur.
If you're getting ready to gointo some business venture and
you think that this needs tohappen next year, man, you're,
you, can.
You can be successful next yearat some level, but it's
unrealistic for you to say I'mgonna go from now to Bill Gates
(31:39):
next year.
There's a progression and so weset ourselves in for the race
with no finish line.
Mentally, we lock ourselves in.
That's what?
When I say never surrender,that's what I'm saying.
We're locking ourselves inmentally and emotionally to run
a race, it's whatever it takes.
This is why we talk about theruthless commitment to expansion
(32:00):
.
It is a ruthless commitment,because we are gonna get
bloodied along the way, we'regonna get knocked down, there's
gonna be these challenges, butit's whatever it takes mode
Right and it's flexible, likeand so you know, now I feel like
we're we're almost reachingsome redundancy here on the
(32:21):
episode, but this is the pointI'm trying to drive home.
It's the combination of all ofthese things and recognizing
that I mean I think I I didn'tget into 10,000 hours until I
was maybe 40, to be asspecialized in real estate
development as I am.
I'm 47 this week, but I didn'thit 10,000 hours till maybe 40,
(32:44):
42, and I can feel a differenceInteresting.
I can feel a difference thatI'm in my stride and that I'm in
my prime.
Because, when challenges comethere's no hesitation behind how
to respond to that right.
And it kind of feels nice tohave the reps in and have the
10,000 hours under your belt andreally know that you're
(33:07):
motoring on that right pathright.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's you know, and I likewhat you say about the time.
You know it's like we can'tcontrol time.
But I would also add to thatit's like we can control what we
do with our time Absolutely.
And it goes back to what youjust said here.
It's like you just hit your10,000 hour, man.
(33:31):
You know, everyone hasdifferent paths, everyone has
their own unique scenarios andjourneys, and it's like you have
an opportunity to choose whatyou're gonna do with that time.
Well, you can't control it.
You can choose what you'regonna do and you can choose how
quickly.
Well, I mean, you have like, ifwe're saying actually 10,000
(33:53):
hours, it takes 10,000 hours,but you can choose to make that
10,000 hours happen over thisamount of time or your entire
life.
That's right.
So you see, what I'm trying tosay is like you control what you
do with it.
That's right.
You can maximize that and youknow I just really like that and
that's kind of been.
(34:13):
My biggest takeaway from thisis, like man, I have the
opportunity to choose.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
You know and take control of that so, and then put
myself in scenarios that I'mgoing to have to expand, that
I'm going to have to.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That's a really critical point to it, dallin,
because in Outliers MalcolmGladwell is talking about like
the National Canadian HockeyLeagues, and he's talking about
how, from very young ages, likefive, six years old, down to the
month of the year they wereborn, most of the professionals
were born in like January,february.
(34:48):
And what's interesting aboutthe data when you research that
is, all that meant was the kidsthat were born earlier in the
year got interesting More repsearlier.
And were bigger when it cametime for the season of everyone
of that same age, and so theyhad some advantages of
repetition, advantages of size,advantages of extra practices.
(35:10):
But then what happened is isthey moved through the leagues.
Kids would get into these elite, you know teams where they
would have, instead of 20 gamesa year, 70 games a year.
So the number of repsaccelerated depending on
different choices and thatladder and how it progressed.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Small choices, too Small minute, minute, little
thing.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
All the little details contribute to those
choices.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah Well, I think that that probably is very kind
of a valuable little nugget foranyone that's listening is like
man, it doesn't have to be hugethings that you're embarking on
every day.
Totally, in fact, it's theopposite.
It's a compilation of a ton ofsmall things.
It's a compilation of each andevery one of these small little
(36:00):
tweaks, these small littlechanges, these small little
things that are making youbetter.
It's the 1% every day that'llgradually build and become what
we're talking about here.
Right, I think that's also kindof a little bit more of a bite
sizeable.
You know, when you're listeningto this, I feel like it could
be easy to you know, even mesitting here, it's like, geez,
(36:22):
that's a lot Right.
But when you put it in thatperspective, it's like, well, no
, because I can do somethingtoday.
Yeah, and I'm sitting in thisminute in this very hour.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
We talked about that maybe 10 episodes ago.
You know, trust the processlike setting targets.
And like setting a target ayear out versus setting my daily
process.
And then trusting it, like setit in motion and then trust it
and then develop consistencyinside of it, and then and now,
guess what You're manifestingmiracles a decade from now,
(36:57):
because of commitments andchoices that were made.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
The groundwork you're laying right now.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
That's right yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's right, yeah, and you know it also.
It's cool because you know,instead of saying, well, I'm not
having these opportunities ofgrowth right now, instead of
asking, instead of saying thatwe've said this before, ask the
better question well, how can Ibe?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah Well, an interesting side note before we
wrap this episode is when I prayto God.
A long time ago, I made adecision that I don't.
I'm not actively asking andbegging him to do anything for
me.
I'm 100% focused on givinggratitude for him that
(37:42):
everything that got done today,and in just focusing on
gratitude and I'll feelgratitude for things in the
future, feeling what it willfeel like when this is done, and
I'm expressing gratitude to Godfor that.
And so, again, that's part ofthe mental programming, because
I know God isn't gonna come andjust save me and you know, bless
(38:02):
me with this, you know billiondollars and whatever it is.
And, I think, a lot of people alot of the listeners out there
guys like I respect prayer.
That's a sacred thing, and I'mjust suggesting that a heavier
emphasis on gratitude versusasking God to do things for you
and do miracles for you is notthe most effective approach in
(38:26):
my experience, but when I havegratitude, acknowledging that he
did he showed me a miracletoday and then figuring out and
looking at small things asmiracles, yeah.
That's critical to theprogramming and the compounding
of the whole thing, right.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And I just to add on that you know, when you're
talking about prayer like that,it's like man.
If all you're focused on isjust asking for this, that and
the other, then it almost seemslike well, you know what are you
treating that relationship as?
It's like you know, is it just,you're just taking and taking
(39:07):
you're just wanting it.
It's like it becomes a differentapproach entirely when you're
coming from a source ofgratitude Absolutely and it's
like look, I'm you know.
Not only does it affect thatrelationship, it affects you
Absolutely, because then itconditions and that's probably
one of the biggest things we'retalking about in this scenario
it's like you, if you candevelop yourself as a grateful
(39:31):
person and notice the gratitudewe talked about this before but
you start noticing the silverlinings, you start actually
manifesting the miracles becauseyou are conditioning yourself
to be someone that can.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's right.
And then it appreciates them,and then you know that you're on
the Jedi path.
When you're taking heavy fire,you're getting sued.
It feels like the whole sky isfalling and yet you somehow I
somehow am focused on thegratitude of the miracles of the
day.
Okay, that's Jedi levelprogramming when you can get to
(40:04):
that point right, instead offalling into the pitfalls of
victimness and martyred.
Well, that's it, guys.
Let's wrap this episode, dallin.
Thank you for your contributiontoday.
Man, this was a fun one.
Hopefully the listeners got asmuch value out of it as I did.
Sharing it and sharing it withyou.
Hopefully you all chime inagain, share the podcast, guys.
(40:26):
We appreciate you all sendingour love and light and we'll
catch you on the next one.
Welcome back to the show, guys.
It's Wayne Aston here, withAston Incorporated.
I'm your host and joining me inthe studios Dallin Aston.
Oh yeah how you doing today,dallin.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh man, if I was doing any better, I don't know
what I would do with myself.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You ready for this today?
Ready today?
Today, guys, we're coveringanother big one and I want to
kick this off with fight firewith superior fire.
Okay, so we're gonna go, we'regonna go back to the Marine
Corps School of Infantry tacticsand we're gonna talk the
tactics of a Marine Corpsmachine gunner and how that can
(00:40):
apply to business.
Okay, so I want to lead thisoff with this actual attack.
This is an actual tactic fightfire with superior fire,
specifically with regards toambush tactics.
So Imagine we're in a five-manfire team or a column and we're
walking along a jungle trail andyou know some, some foreign
(01:03):
country, and we get ambushed byOne or more sides.
What's the natural reaction?
Why don't you take a guessbefore we dive in?
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So we're walking, you're walking home or a
five-man like fire team.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We're walking down a trail in a jungle and we get
ambushed from the side.
Yeah, let's say that they're upon a hill above Above us,
because that would be thetactical advantage.
Point was up, okay, and they'refiring down on us at the trail.
What would be the knee jerk,what reaction?
What do you think you know weshould do about responding to an
ambush?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Probably cover right return fire.
I Mean I don't know what you'relooking for, like what?
Speaker 1 (01:49):
What's the knee jerk?
Like, like, with no trainingand, no, no perspective on it.
You say cover.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I'd say, well, if our we're in the jungle, yeah,
getting the trees fun shot outshoot out, shoot back.
Yeah, what are you looking for?
That's the natural thing.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
So so the actual tactic is Return fire and head
straight into the fire.
So, okay, interesting, so wewould be.
We were trained to actuallyreturn heavy fire but run right
into where the fire was comingfrom.
It's an unorthodox approach.
So why is that?
Statistically speaking, thechance of survival is greater if
(02:27):
we don't run and hide, but ifwe hit the ambush head-on with a
, with a superior fire response,right in the right into, like
an immediate counter up the hill, what happens is they don't
want to get shot, we're throwinglive lead to, and so you, you,
even the plane field out inquite a ways when you don't
(02:49):
respond to the fear response offinding cover.
So running right into an ambushis the that's official Marine
Corps tactic if we're at ainfantry, infantry in the jungle
.
Okay, guys, so Interesting.
That was really cool for me tolearn that and be trained on
that as a machine gunner,because it has so much practical
(03:11):
life application.
Number one it's unorthodox, andso much about what we talk
about in entrepreneurship isunorthodox.
It's the answer that youwouldn't think about, or it's
the answer that it seems likeit's suicide.
Okay, and and so you have to.
Now, again, you rely on data,you rely on statistics, you rely
(03:33):
on training, you rely oncommanders and and and warriors
who have been in multipleconflicts, who have this is a
battle-tested tactic.
So you have to.
You have to mentally like,adapt to the fact you know right
.
This is why we do this right.
So now, when we talk about youknow being entrepreneurs, oh my
(03:55):
gosh, when we meet resistance,what do we do?
Think of resistance in businessas an ambush.
I mean, think of.
We got a crazy situationhappening in Utah right now.
Might not be the best analogy,but it's relevant.
You know, we got crumblecookies, this big cookie
juggernaut, and they makeamazing cookies.
(04:17):
But we have two othercompetitors in Utah coming up
and there's this big lawsuit.
Crumble cookies just sued thesetwo other companies, these
cookie companies for wild, whoknows?
I think, logo infringement,trademark infringement, I'm not.
I'm not clear on the details,guys, but but you know, if
you're the smaller guy andyou're getting hit with
(04:38):
litigation, what you know, whatare the options.
I don't want to go into thatand try and quarterback what
those cookie companies should dogetting fired on by the
juggernaut.
But a successful entrepreneuris going to take fire and Then
one of a couple things willhappen You're gonna take fire
and collapse and you could dieand the business goes out of
(04:59):
business when you, when you takefire.
And big companies know this,guys, big real estate developers
know this, they know and biglenders know this.
You know I have a lot ofexperience with some of these
big, these big private equityfunds and they know that.
You know they I feel like partof their underwriting of a
(05:21):
sponsor or a developer aborrower has to do with, you
know, do they have thehorsepower or the wherewithal to
weather a storm?
And that will drive whetherthey bring litigation or what
kind of tactic they use againstme as an entrepreneur.
And I can tell you fromexperience I have one lender we
(05:43):
might get into names and detailsand talking about this
particular lender, who I, whoall refer to unanimously as
Satan, or it's either thislender or Satan.
They're the same.
Interchangeably, notunanimously.
I'll refer to interchangeably,very predatory company, very
predatory company, and you knowthey're, they're not afraid of
(06:06):
litigation, I'm not afraid oflitigation.
But but what happens when a big,well-funded company Decides to
bring litigation out and playthat nasty, that nasty game?
Entrepreneurs have a decisionto make and a Lot of the time
the decision is driven by theamount of capital, because to
(06:27):
fight a legal war, you you haveto have a War chest, you have to
have capital and and sometimesyou just can't win that,
sometimes you have to, you haveto fight.
You're forced to find asettlement or die or just let
the business go out of business.
Right, but sometimes, dependingon the circumstances, and if
you have the, if you happen tohave the word chest and you
(06:50):
happen to have the, the facts,then you have integrity.
Then fighting fire withsuperior fires.
The answer, because no onewants to go into a protracted
litigation situation two years,three years in in legal warfare,
and if a big fund Can't win insix months and it's gonna get
(07:13):
protracted, they're gonna bepaying their attorneys hundreds
of thousands of dollars in theprocess as well.
So so you know I want to.
I don't want to get too deepinto the legal strategy because
that's Actually potentially awhole other episode.
I just want to keep focused onthe mentality of this Resisting
(07:34):
the ambush tag this, this tacticOkay, and how we apply it.
One thing I'd have everyoneconsider is that as
entrepreneurs We've got to trainourselves to expect miracles.
Okay.
To me it feels miraculous if Iimagine I'm on a trail and I'm
carrying my m60 and I got a.
(07:56):
You know, I got one of my guysbehind me with an m16, I got
another guy over here withsomething else and we get fired
on.
I try to put myself in thatsituation and and imagine you
emotionally the reaction.
Now I've never been in combatguys.
I think I made that disclaimerearly on.
I was one of the most blessed,fortunate guys to be back to
(08:19):
back conflict.
So I enlisted in the MarineCorps in 1993, went to boot camp
three days after graduation,turned 18 in boot camp in the
gas chamber On my birthday.
I got to do gas chambertraining.
But I was going through schoolof infantry down in Camp
Pendleton back in 93 and 94.
(08:40):
And this is right on the heelsof that unit that I was attached
to being on an activedeployment in the first invasion
of Iraq Desert Storm.
I discharged in 2005.
And six months later my unitfound themselves in Afghanistan.
So a decade of service, nevercombat deployed, and I know I'm
(09:05):
going to have good friendslistening to the show who are
combat deployed or were combatdeployed, and so I don't want to
put myself out there as somewar hero, because that's not
what I'm saying.
All I'm saying is we learnedsome really great things in all
of the training over a decade,and it's applicable to being an
entrepreneur.
Expecting miracles has a lot todo with this.
(09:28):
If we're going to actually turnand run into fire, you have to
believe there's a God.
For me, anyways, speaking formyself, I had to really
understand that God has a planfor me.
He's not wanting me to die inthis conflict.
The only way I'm going to do itis I'm going to trust that God.
I'm going to trust the training.
(09:49):
I'm going to trust that God isgoing to miraculously get me
through this event.
And a lot of the time when Italk about the apocalypse events
of a business owner or anentrepreneur, it feels like
bullets raining down.
It feels like everyone wants tosue me, everyone wants to give
(10:10):
me death threats.
There's a lot of black darknessthat can come in a business
failure and it's a lot likebeing ambushed, and so I'd have
everyone consider listening thatexpecting miracles is one of
the magic superpowers you candevelop, and to me it's required
(10:31):
.
If I'm not expecting miracles,like when I get up every day, I
know what my day looks likebecause I reviewed my calendar
or my schedule for the day thenight before.
I like to go to bed reviewingthe calendar the day before
Starting to know what the daycould look like based on my
calendar.
(10:52):
But I'm also very careful when Iget up in the morning and I'm
doing my meditation, I'm havinggratitude and I'm spending that
first hour or so of my morningin gratitude with God and just
communing with God that I'm opento anything.
I'm open to actual miracles.
I'm open to the fact that hewould manifest miracles through
(11:12):
me today that are not even onthe calendar or not even in my
awareness.
Sometimes that could be reallybig things I've been working on
for a year, two years, sixmonths.
Sometimes it could be somethingout of the blue.
So I'd have you all considerjust an open mind in your daily
kind of get up and get thingsmoving that it's critical to
(11:34):
have the open mind and expect amiracle.
Yeah, okay, I think it's amajor major.
We're all shorting ourselvesdramatically if we don't believe
that a miracle's possible today, if we think a miracle's
possible next year after we'vedone all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's not a miracle, right Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And this kind of brings me into a whole nother
thing around setting targets andconsidering if what I'm doing
is big enough.
If I don't believe in miracles,then I have a propensity to set
targets that I know I can hitand I have a little, I have,
(12:15):
certainty around hitting targets.
And what I'd have you consideris that it's important in this
process and this programming ofyour own self, your programming,
your soul and your heart andyour mind, to expect miracles,
that we're setting targets andwe're having expectations that
(12:36):
God will manifest miracles withme.
I expect that, so it becomespart of my day and then, when it
happens, I'm prepared for itand I can see it and I can
recognize it and it's mucheasier for me to find gratitude
in it as it happens.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Any thoughts on that, dallin, I'm dropping a lot here
on you rapid fire right now.
Yeah, one thing you said if Idon't expect miracles, this is
kind of what I got out of it.
If you don't expect miracles,then you're gonna set
comfortable targets, yeah, andas we all know, there's no
comfort in a growth zone and nogrowth in a comfort zone, right.
And so when I hear that I'mgoing, that's an interesting
(13:14):
perspective because it's likeyou know, you obviously want to
go in and you know there's allthe gurus who will say, wake up
at 4 am and just hustle andgrind and work for the next five
years that you can have, youknow, set yourself up for the
rest of your life, like all thatstuff.
But at the end of the day, whatwe're really talking about is
(13:37):
expecting that.
You know, as you getuncomfortable, miracles will
happen.
That's really all we're saying,right, it's like it's not
necessarily telling you to wakeup at 4 am, yeah.
It's not necessarily tellingyou to do this, that or the
other.
It's saying expecting thosemiracles will change your
(13:58):
perspective.
And that's what it's saying tome right now.
You're not saying any specific.
When I wake up at 4 am, I'meating this and I'm eating this
and I'm doing this.
It's not necessarily a hey, goreplicate my morning routine.
That's not what you're saying.
What you're saying is right.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Am I correct?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, today I'm not talking about the specifics of
my morning routine, right nowI'm talking broad strokes of the
mentality Right, we're talkingthe mentality that goes into
growth and expansion.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, that's right Right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And we could get into .
I think there is value inhaving a morning routine and
having these different thingsand having this discipline, but
that's not what we're talkingabout here and what you're
saying.
To me it transcends just a.
I wake up and I'm saying yeah,I expect miracles.
No, it's like a no, it's like amindset, it's a way of living
(14:57):
right, it's engraving on yourheart.
It's like I know that, as I runinto the fire, that I am going
to be okay because I'm relyingon expect, believing that
miracles are gonna happen,believing that God is I'm doing
what he wants me to do.
Yep, almost.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, yeah, and a part, an extension of that, and
tying this all back to thisMarine Corps tactic, this ambush
tactic, is never surrender.
Okay, we're cultivating andprogramming our minds to to
expect miracles.
At the same time, we're alsoprogramming ourselves to never
(15:37):
surrender.
We talked about this a fewepisodes back.
How many times, if I getknocked down, I'm gonna get back
up?
Well, never surrender iscrucial, guys, in the game of
entrepreneurship and in the gameof real estate.
Okay, it happens more often thannot that when we encounter
turbulence or resistance or fireor whatever you wanna call it,
(16:02):
the propensity is to pivot awayand find something new, or to
give up all together.
And, and so you talk about alot of.
There's so many cliches hereand we're gonna, we're gonna
maybe, maybe air on the side ofsplitting hairs.
But you've heard the, you'veheard of, you've heard of the
(16:27):
cliche burn all of the ships,yeah, okay.
And you've heard of these greatlegends of Greek warriors, you
know, invading, invading aterritory, and they would, you
know, come into a certain newterritory and they would burn
the ships in the harbor becausethat would seal off any retreat
potential.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, and they would be there to either die or
succeed, right, and you hearabout that at Sea of Cortez.
You hear about that with Cortezleading an army into the Aztec.
You know interior, and that'sactually what they did.
You know, burn the ship.
I'd have you consider that wehave to cultivate this attitude
(17:08):
around business, Like if we'resetting our mind to do something
, then there has to be a nosurrender attitude.
And a lot of the times we canreally we can shoot ourselves in
the foot when we put timingexpectations around things.
So one of the things I can'tcontrol is time, and so when I
(17:31):
put expectations around thetiming of how fast this
project's supposed to happen, orhow fast we ought to be able to
raise that capital, or how fastwe ought to get that product to
market, whatever it is, timingcan be one of those dicey.
It's a tightrope.
We've got to set deadlines,we've got to push ourselves and
the company to hit deadlines.
(17:51):
You know, I love hearing aboutSteve Jobs and his engineers
when he's developing the iPhone.
I love hearing about themcoming to him and saying, hey,
you know, this glass that youwant to use on these phones is
like this, is this next levelglass, and I mean we're building
up our manufacturing processesto be able to fulfill this, but
(18:12):
you know we need two more weeks.
And he's like well, if you canget it done in two weeks, you
can have it done on the deadlinein two days.
And he gently like took themoff of that, that wanting to
pivot and wanting to extend andhe and they rallied and they
made it happen.
So there's just some strength inthe resilience of the mind when
(18:38):
we embrace this never surrenderattitude and we're ready to
kind of.
You know, arnold Schwarzeneggertalks about not having plan.
You know plans B and C.
There's one plan and it'sexecute the plan right.
What is this bringing up foryou?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It.
You know it makes me think alot of different thoughts, but
I'm thinking about my life andwhat this looks like.
You know, I mean I have what I,you know, a year ago, my vision
for what I wanted my life tolook like is different than it
is now.
Oh yeah, and so I'm thinking alot about this.
I'm like, okay, you know, ayear ago I had this vision, I
(19:20):
had this this is the path.
But as I continued on that pathand met resistance and met
different things, that pathmorphed into something bigger.
As I became more of the personthat could create what I was
creating, my perspective changed, that or the other changed, and
(19:43):
then things opened up to me andthings became clear and it's
like, oh, I didn't think of thatbefore.
And it becomes different.
And I think an aspect of thisis being so strategic and
calculated and also, at the sametime, willing to adapt you know
cause Flexible yeah.
(20:05):
Cause, if, and as you're talking, this thought just keeps coming
back to me.
It's like, man, you know, if Iwere to have just continued on
the path that I set out on andmaybe that's the wrong way of
saying it but if I would havejust not been flexible to change
two or three years ago, I wouldnot be where I am right now.
Absolutely there is no doubt inmy mind.
(20:28):
I would be completely different, spot right, and I can't say if
that would have been asuccessful or a failure, like I
just I don't know.
But looking back, I'm sittinghere going this, what I am
currently doing and what I willbe doing in the future is bigger
than what I could even dream ofback when I was doing the
(20:52):
guitar hackscom.
Oh, yeah.
You know what I mean.
Like doing these little thingshere, rise marketing.
These little things you know,getting on this path, it's like,
okay.
Well, what does never surrendermean?
I don't believe that.
It means you are super strictto one thing.
Exactly, it means I am neversurrendering to this idea of my
(21:16):
personal growth, and that's whatthe podcast is about, right?
Yeah, that's right, it's likemy personal growth, my service
and my dedication to God, topeople, to value creation.
It's not necessarily to oneaspect of this because, those
things change markets change,business plans change, customer
(21:36):
values change, like all thisstuff changes, and if you're not
gonna be committed to that, notcommitted to the fact that
things change, then you areultimately gonna fail and fall
behind and then you're gonna diein the ambush right.
And so that's kind of where mythought goes.
It's like, yeah, if you'regoing on this path, then yeah,
(21:59):
burn the ships, but don't be anidiot, I get what I'm trying to
say Don't be, you know, like,for example, for me.
I have a job.
I have, but it directlycorrelates to what I'm doing,
because the experience I'mgaining there is invaluable to
what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's all part of the expansion plan, the big plan of
the highest version of you.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yes, yeah, and it's not a nine to five.
It doesn't suck much and I'mnot saying maybe you don't have
it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
It could be and it could still support your highest
and best version of you being anine to five, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think
it's wise and I don't think it'slike this whole thing when
we're talking about burning theships.
I don't believe that justsaying oh, I have an idea and
then quitting your job andselling your, I do not believe
that is the answer.
(22:58):
I do not believe that's thepath.
I believe that it requires anextra level of commitment, like
saying, hey, you know, maybe I'min this position right now.
You have to take an honestacknowledgement and honest look
at where you're at currently,where you want to go and how do
you bridge from point A to pointB and then never quit on that.
Right, it's like, okay, if youcurrently have a job you hate,
(23:21):
well, where do you want to beand what can you do now that can
get you to there?
It might not be quitting yourjob today.
It might be.
It might be Right.
And if you're, you know, maybeyou started a business and now
you're a slave to your business.
Well, where do you want to be?
Maybe you hate that, where doyou want to be?
Okay, well, how do you getthere?
It might not be just dissolvingyour business.
(23:43):
It might be.
Right, I guess what I'm tryingto say is like it's this
calculated commitment towardsthat growth, and I don't always
think it's exactly black andwhite.
I guess what I'm trying to sayis different, for everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
That's true, that right.
There is a major expectation, amajor definition for any
entrepreneur considering gettinginto this game.
It's never black and white.
The conditions are neverperfect.
It almost never will end up theway you envision it, so you've
got to be cultivating.
(24:25):
There's this whole battery ofphilosophy, there's a whole.
There's myriad moving parts andpoints of view to incorporate.
All I'm saying is the sum ofall of this.
Programming are critical pointsof programming If it weren't for
every second of every minute ofevery day, I wouldn't be
(24:45):
exactly who I am, sittingexactly right here with you in
this moment, in this amazingstudio, this amazing place, if
it weren't for all of that, nowin hindsight, looking back,
would I have planned that?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh my God no, no right, there's just no chance I
wouldn't have had the courage, Iwould not have the courage to
go through it If you would haveknown what you were about to
embark on.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
I love that thought.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's like if you would have known, you probably
wouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And that's part of why I believe God has such a
unique way of manifestingmiracles through us and with us,
because he only lets us seeenough that the current version
of our self can accept.
And it has to be uncomfortable,like I'm not talking about
(25:40):
notice, I didn't say God onlylets us see what we're
comfortable with.
He only lets us see enough ofwhat we can accept, and it could
be excruciatingly difficult.
Challenging might seemimpossible, should seem
impossible if we really believein manifesting miracles, but
(26:00):
that's part of the daily, that'spart of the daily right is
waking up and having a mind andenergy that's committed to this.
So there's this flexibility,there's this I'm never quitting.
There's this if I meetresistance, I'm going to become
bigger, faster.
I'm going to learn, I'm goingto question, I'm going to ask
(26:22):
better questions.
Who do I have to become to dothat?
What do I have to learn toovercome this?
And then there's this resolvethat I'm committed to do
whatever it takes to go do that.
And you're constantly pivotingon this path.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So what does it take, what does it look like for
someone, for us, to obtain theseattributes of expecting
miracles?
Because anyone can say, like wecan just say right now oh yeah,
this is what you need to do.
You need to expect miracles,right, but what's the way,
what's the path that we canpractice and acquire this view,
(27:01):
this outlook, right?
How can I practice expectingmiracles?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
How can I?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
practice setting uncomfortable targets.
How can I practice?
And maybe that's, I guess,maybe that's a way right, but
how can I practice running intothe ambush, Like you?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
know what I mean.
The shitty thing about theanswer to that question is is
not what you want to hear?
How do you practice cultivating?
Well, it means you have to getshot at.
It means you have to.
It means you have to have somefailure.
It means you've got toencounter some serious
discomfort.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
So that's exactly what I was looking for, because
I want it to be very clear thatthe only way to really acquire
these skills or in Claff talksabout it and pitch anything and
flip the script in his books.
It's like you can't get goodjust reading a book.
You can understand theprinciple, but until you get in
(28:00):
and you actually are doing this,then it's not going to become
part of you.
I think that's super important.
That's why I asked the question, because you know it's like
well, how do you acquire theseattributes?
How do you acquire the skills?
You put yourself in scenarioswhere you're forced to acquire
them and then you actively sayoh man, I'm experiencing this, I
(28:25):
can.
Now, I have the opportunity tochoose if I'm going to or not.
Right, you know, making thedecision prior is probably it's.
You know that's the way to doit.
So you're saying, hey, look,I'm gonna go into it, but it's
saying it and doing it arecomplete different things right
so you're gonna say it and then,when you get to, that that's
the way to practice.
From what I'm hearing, you say,like that's the way to practice
(28:47):
.
It's like you have to be inthat situation and then actively
say I already decided I wasgonna do this.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So in that, that's your, that's your opportunity to
become more.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
That's right.
Everyone wants to be a gangsteruntil it's time to do gangster
shit.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
And then when it hits , the rubber meets the road no
one wants to be a gangsteranymore.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
It's like, oh, we could die doing this.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You're absolutely right.
I have a hundred things goingthrough my head.
I'm currently reading a bookcalled Outliers by Malcolm
Gladwell and I'm only a couplechapters in, but I love what
he's what he's getting into withOutliers, because he's talking
about the 10,000 hour theory andhe's talking about he's
unpacking what you're talkingabout.
What does it take for someoneto go from two years old or so
(29:32):
to a professional athlete or aworld-class violinist or pianist
?
He talks about Mozart and, youknow, being the greatest
composer of all time.
Well, most, most people justassume that Mozart was born with
all this natural skill and thisgift and he did have a gift.
However, you know, he points outthat Mozart's dad helped
(29:56):
compose a lot of his early works, and when he was a child he
would put things in front of him, whoa and and.
Mozart wasn't composing thisstuff as a young man.
In fact, he didn't make his, hedidn't make his most well-known
work until he was like 26 yearsold and he, and so he, and
there's, there's this whole,there's this whole chain
(30:20):
reaction kind of ladder tostudying Mozart's life from a
child to the greatest composerthat's ever been known and what
that took.
And you and and you shouldcheck that book out, outliers,
because it's fantastic, becauseyou understand that influences
(30:43):
and programming, and beyondinfluences and programming,
beyond the environment choices,and you know what we do on a
daily.
How many hours do we actuallycommit to this?
Professional athletes puttingin you know, three to eight
hours a day, and how fast can weget to the 10,000 hours?
(31:06):
And then only once you hit the10,000 hours under your belt can
you consider yourselfproficient enough to do your
best work.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's an interesting thing, guys, and so you know,
think about as an entrepreneur.
If you're getting ready to gointo some business venture and
you think that this needs tohappen next year, man, you're,
you, can.
You can be successful next yearat some level, but it's
unrealistic for you to say I'mgonna go from now to Bill Gates
(31:39):
next year.
There's a progression and so weset ourselves in for the race
with no finish line.
Mentally, we lock ourselves in.
That's what?
When I say never surrender,that's what I'm saying.
We're locking ourselves inmentally and emotionally to run
a race, it's whatever it takes.
This is why we talk about theruthless commitment to expansion
(32:00):
.
It is a ruthless commitment,because we are gonna get
bloodied along the way, we'regonna get knocked down, there's
gonna be these challenges, butit's whatever it takes mode
Right and it's flexible, likeand so you know, now I feel like
we're we're almost reachingsome redundancy here on the
(32:21):
episode, but this is the pointI'm trying to drive home.
It's the combination of all ofthese things and recognizing
that I mean I think I I didn'tget into 10,000 hours until I
was maybe 40, to be asspecialized in real estate
development as I am.
I'm 47 this week, but I didn'thit 10,000 hours till maybe 40,
(32:44):
42, and I can feel a differenceInteresting.
I can feel a difference thatI'm in my stride and that I'm in
my prime.
Because, when challenges comethere's no hesitation behind how
to respond to that right.
And it kind of feels nice tohave the reps in and have the
10,000 hours under your belt andreally know that you're
(33:07):
motoring on that right pathright.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's you know, and I likewhat you say about the time.
You know it's like we can'tcontrol time.
But I would also add to thatit's like we can control what we
do with our time Absolutely.
And it goes back to what youjust said here.
It's like you just hit your10,000 hour, man.
(33:31):
You know, everyone hasdifferent paths, everyone has
their own unique scenarios andjourneys, and it's like you have
an opportunity to choose whatyou're gonna do with that time.
Well, you can't control it.
You can choose what you'regonna do and you can choose how
quickly.
Well, I mean, you have like, ifwe're saying actually 10,000
(33:53):
hours, it takes 10,000 hours,but you can choose to make that
10,000 hours happen over thisamount of time or your entire
life.
That's right.
So you see, what I'm trying tosay is like you control what you
do with it.
That's right.
You can maximize that and youknow I just really like that and
that's kind of been.
(34:13):
My biggest takeaway from thisis, like man, I have the
opportunity to choose.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
You know and take control of that so, and then put
myself in scenarios that I'mgoing to have to expand, that
I'm going to have to.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
That's a really critical point to it, dallin,
because in Outliers MalcolmGladwell is talking about like
the National Canadian HockeyLeagues, and he's talking about
how, from very young ages, likefive, six years old, down to the
month of the year they wereborn, most of the professionals
were born in like January,february.
(34:48):
And what's interesting aboutthe data when you research that
is, all that meant was the kidsthat were born earlier in the
year got interesting More repsearlier.
And were bigger when it cametime for the season of everyone
of that same age, and so theyhad some advantages of
repetition, advantages of size,advantages of extra practices.
(35:10):
But then what happened is isthey moved through the leagues.
Kids would get into these elite, you know teams where they
would have, instead of 20 gamesa year, 70 games a year.
So the number of repsaccelerated depending on
different choices and thatladder and how it progressed.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Small choices, too Small minute, minute, little
thing.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
All the little details contribute to those
choices.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah Well, I think that that probably is very kind
of a valuable little nugget foranyone that's listening is like
man, it doesn't have to be hugethings that you're embarking on
every day.
Totally, in fact, it's theopposite.
It's a compilation of a ton ofsmall things.
It's a compilation of each andevery one of these small little
(36:00):
tweaks, these small littlechanges, these small little
things that are making youbetter.
It's the 1% every day that'llgradually build and become what
we're talking about here.
Right, I think that's also kindof a little bit more of a bite
sizeable.
You know, when you're listeningto this, I feel like it could
be easy to you know, even mesitting here, it's like, geez,
(36:22):
that's a lot Right.
But when you put it in thatperspective, it's like, well, no
, because I can do somethingtoday.
Yeah, and I'm sitting in thisminute in this very hour.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
We talked about that maybe 10 episodes ago.
You know, trust the processlike setting targets.
And like setting a target ayear out versus setting my daily
process.
And then trusting it, like setit in motion and then trust it
and then develop consistencyinside of it, and then and now,
guess what You're manifestingmiracles a decade from now,
(36:57):
because of commitments andchoices that were made.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
The groundwork you're laying right now.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
That's right yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's right, yeah, and you know it also.
It's cool because you know,instead of saying, well, I'm not
having these opportunities ofgrowth right now, instead of
asking, instead of saying thatwe've said this before, ask the
better question well, how can Ibe?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah Well, an interesting side note before we
wrap this episode is when I prayto God.
A long time ago, I made adecision that I don't.
I'm not actively asking andbegging him to do anything for
me.
I'm 100% focused on givinggratitude for him that
(37:42):
everything that got done today,and in just focusing on
gratitude and I'll feelgratitude for things in the
future, feeling what it willfeel like when this is done, and
I'm expressing gratitude to Godfor that.
And so, again, that's part ofthe mental programming, because
I know God isn't gonna come andjust save me and you know, bless
(38:02):
me with this, you know billiondollars and whatever it is.
And, I think, a lot of people alot of the listeners out there
guys like I respect prayer.
That's a sacred thing, and I'mjust suggesting that a heavier
emphasis on gratitude versusasking God to do things for you
and do miracles for you is notthe most effective approach in
(38:26):
my experience, but when I havegratitude, acknowledging that he
did he showed me a miracletoday and then figuring out and
looking at small things asmiracles, yeah.
That's critical to theprogramming and the compounding
of the whole thing, right.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And I just to add on that you know, when you're
talking about prayer like that,it's like man.
If all you're focused on isjust asking for this, that and
the other, then it almost seemslike well, you know what are you
treating that relationship as?
It's like you know, is it just,you're just taking and taking
(39:07):
you're just wanting it.
It's like it becomes a differentapproach entirely when you're
coming from a source ofgratitude Absolutely and it's
like look, I'm you know.
Not only does it affect thatrelationship, it affects you
Absolutely, because then itconditions and that's probably
one of the biggest things we'retalking about in this scenario
it's like you, if you candevelop yourself as a grateful
(39:31):
person and notice the gratitudewe talked about this before but
you start noticing the silverlinings, you start actually
manifesting the miracles becauseyou are conditioning yourself
to be someone that can.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's right.
And then it appreciates them,and then you know that you're on
the Jedi path.
When you're taking heavy fire,you're getting sued.
It feels like the whole sky isfalling and yet you somehow I
somehow am focused on thegratitude of the miracles of the
day.
Okay, that's Jedi levelprogramming when you can get to
(40:04):
that point right, instead offalling into the pitfalls of
victimness and martyred.
Well, that's it, guys.
Let's wrap this episode, dallin.
Thank you for your contributiontoday.
Man, this was a fun one.
Hopefully the listeners got asmuch value out of it as I did.
Sharing it and sharing it withyou.
Hopefully you all chime inagain, share the podcast, guys.
(40:26):
We appreciate you all sendingour love and light and we'll
catch you on the next one.
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