September 18, 2023 • 54 mins
Ever wondered about the ethical and privacy considerations in astrology readings? Buckle up for a riveting conversation where Sunny and Bootes put ethics and privacy under the astrological lens. We discuss the vital role of consent in astrology, highlighting the importance of obscuring personal details when discussing charts publicly, the potential implications of unwelcome advice, and how different astrological phenomena interpretations can influence readings.
Navigating challenging conversations is always a tricky business, and with astrology, it becomes even more complex. Sunny and Bootes share insights on how to tread these waters carefully, maintaining a delicate balance between respecting autonomy and providing necessary guidance—especially when it comes to reading children's charts. We dig into the importance of letting children decide if and when they want a reading .
Finally, we explore the power and limitations inherent in astrology, and how understanding our own charts can inform readings. Emphasizing the complexity of an individual chart, we stress that it is not merely the sum of its parts, but a comprehensive roadmap of our celestial journey. So tune in, because astrology isn't just about the stars, it's about understanding our ethical and moral compass too!
To talk with Sunny and Bootes send an email to: contact@astrologyafpodcast.com
To talk with sunny or get a reading, goto: https://sunnysastrology.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey Astro Friends, this is Astrology AF, the show
that talks everything astrologyabove and below the totally real
, not at all illusory sky.
I'm Sunny, your hostess, withover 30 years of chart reading
experience.
Bootes (00:26):
And I'm Boots, your hostling, with almost 30 years
experience questioning innocentpeople to tears.
We're here to walk with youthrough the twinkling starlight
into the basic, the advanced andthe obscure.
Today's topic that we haddiscussed previously was going
to be ethics right, yes, okay.
What are some of the areas youare thinking of going with?
Sunny (00:51):
Actually looking at someone's chart without their
permission is enough.
Forecasting for a child issomething I won't do.
Some astrologers will, but eventhey have limitations.
(01:14):
Thinking about or displayingsomeone's chart without their
permission is enough.
Even with permission, there's awhole set of things that are
no-knows.
(01:34):
For example, if I have a clientand I'm working with them and I
say this thing about your chartis very interesting and I would
like to, I want to study thisand more.
I study that and work with thatand find more information.
(01:59):
If they give me permission toshare their chart they are not
giving me permission to sharetheir identity I say, okay, I
have this.
As a matter of fact, this issomething that's come up
(02:24):
recently.
There's somebody that I've donea chart with that has an
amazing Venus retrograde storyand full setup.
I can't talk about it because Idon't yet have their permission
to share.
When they give permission, I'mplanning on asking for that
(02:50):
because we're going to beworking together.
That doesn't mean that I cansay who they are or where they
live.
Casting a chart, you have to usethe birthplace.
If you don't have a birthplace,if you obscure the birthplace,
(03:15):
you change the chart.
You need to keep the birthplaceoriginal, but you definitely
don't need to keep their nameattached to it.
It should not be attached.
In telling the biographicaldetails or the biographical,
(03:37):
this is what happened in thelife of this person.
You have to obscure as much asyou can.
You can obscure the gendersimply by saying they.
That way it's like well, isthat a guy, is that a woman, is
that a they?
I don't know.
You talk about theirbiographical, the things that
(03:59):
happened in a very obscure way.
Take out details that wouldidentify in any way.
It's a whole thing because youcan look at a chart and foresee
(04:19):
all kinds of events and then beable to attach that back and say
, oh, I know who that is,because the astrologer wasn't
careful with their identity.
Now I can go create mayhem ortake that chart and use it for
my own ends.
(04:40):
I'm predicting a divorce thatthis person is going to have.
Maybe that person is not eventhinking about divorce in there.
Does that make sense?
Bootes (04:57):
Yeah, because there's also a very real possibility of
just planting ideas in people'sminds.
If you hear it from anastrologer and this is something
that you believe in, it tiesright into the stereotype of why
(05:22):
some people poo poo astrologyin the first place is they say
that somebody is going to breakup with somebody else because
their astrologer said the sun isin asparagus and so you're
going to break up with X and X.
If people take you seriously,then that just thoughts are a
(05:47):
powerful thing.
Maybe it wasn't in the chart atall, but now that they've heard
it from you and they believethat and they think it has
something to do with their fate,then they're going to go off
and act a fool when they didn'thave to in the first place.
There's also I don't know toomuch about this, I'm not sure if
(06:14):
you do, but I have heard thatin some traditions, particularly
the Chinese tradition, it's athing not to share your chart
with people and that anastrologer keeps your chart well
guarded because it can revealyour weaknesses and it could
(06:36):
make you potentially vulnerableto an attack from an unsavory
party.
People could potentially takeadvantage of you knowing that
their moon is in Taurus.
They're soft and squishy andthey're going to be manipulable
via X, and X means this is thekind of stuff they're going to
(06:59):
care about.
This is the kind of stuff thatI can weasel my way in and do
this kind of stuff with.
Me and a friend of mine wererecently talking with another
friend who he's not I guess hewas into astrology previously,
but we were looking at charts ofvarious people that had been
(07:21):
involved in our lives and I waskind of sitting there wondering
where are we on the kind ofspectrum of ethicality with this
, especially if you're not doinganything with it?
That's one thing.
(07:41):
If you're looking at it and say, perhaps you have information
and you pull up a chart ofsomebody who you're trying to
get with, you're trying to makeit with, and you see, oh, they
might be going through a timeright now where they're
vulnerable and you choose totake advantage of that, that
(08:05):
could be unethical, right.
Sunny (08:09):
Which is why?
Because it doesn't matter whatthe reason is.
This is why it is unethical tolook at someone's chart without
their permission.
Bootes (08:22):
All right well, done me.
I'm sorry.
Sunny (08:27):
You didn't mean any harm and you didn't do any harm, but
it's just kind of it's likelooking in their underwear
drawer, you know.
Or even if you don't doanything with it, that's
knowledge that is not yours,that's not.
(08:48):
You know that they haven'tgranted you.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah.
Sunny (08:52):
You know, yeah, so that's a mistake, yeah.
And the way that you can getaround this is by saying to the
person is it all right?
If I look at your chart, yeah,is that okay?
And they may say, well, why doyou want to?
(09:15):
And you can have a conversationabout that.
Bootes (09:24):
I'm sorry my screen is shaking a little bit.
My cat has decided to burrowunderneath the table that my
computer is sitting on.
Sunny (09:35):
And you know, to go further with that, because if
you're talking about someonewhose chart exists and they
don't know what you could dowith it, or they don't know you
know why that's a vulnerableplace.
Okay, maybe going further andsaying you know, all I want to
(10:00):
do is I want to.
You know, I'm trying to findout, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
You know that really puts youin the clear.
You know, just saying, well,you know, can I look at your
chart?
And then they say yes, and thenyou go and try to find out, you
(10:21):
know when they're likely tolose money in the stock market
or something.
And so you can, you know, goafter that chase, that
vulnerability.
You know you are still inunethical territory, even though
they have said, yes, you canlook at my chart.
Bootes (10:40):
Okay, right, because you can lie to them.
Everything is always an optionthat you must choose not to go
with.
Sunny (10:48):
Right, right, and you know, and if somebody I mean
it's like if somebody doesn'tknow what knowledge a birth
chart has, what it contains,then their permission is limited
(11:09):
.
That makes sense If we talkabout, well, you know, a birth
chart talks it.
But you know, and I can look atyour birth chart and I can
figure out, like, when you'relikely to have relationship
troubles or money troubles ortroubles at work.
Okay, and you're granting mepermission to look at all of
(11:32):
those things.
They might not give youpermission.
Yeah, If they, because if theyactually knew what was entailed,
you know now, and that is youknow.
That's one of the things when Italk to people that either I
(11:54):
already have looked at theirchart or they've.
Like, I'm sending them theirchart after we've done your
reading.
I'm very careful to say thankyou for entrusting me with this,
because this is, this is a bigthing, Even if they don't know
it.
Bootes (12:16):
There's a.
So well, I guess maybe weshouldn't get into details about
what other kind of dirtyinformation can you get on
somebody through their chart?
That's not what this, it's notwhat the episode is about.
Let the people do their ownmachinations, but there's what
other kinds of things?
So would you, if you see in achart like what will you just
(12:41):
what would be an unethical thingto say in a reading?
If you see it Like you know,there's stuff where, if you're
doing a reading for somebody,even though they didn't
specifically ask a question, youmight be like, oh, and you know
, by the way, you should maybedo some extra leg stretches
because your knees arevulnerable, Right, Nobody's
(13:04):
really going to get upset withyou about that, but one of the
things that, if you find it doyou just not bring up.
Sunny (13:12):
Okay, good question, death, not that I have ever
really seen.
I haven't ever seen anything.
It's like.
You know completely, oh my God,there's no way that could be
interpreted as anything else.
You know, that's, that's, but Iwon't go there either way.
Bootes (13:37):
Okay, even if you're asked to.
Sunny (13:39):
Correct.
Bootes (13:40):
Okay.
Sunny (13:41):
Yeah, I won't.
First of all, it's it'softentimes with to look at to
find someone's.
I assume we're talking aboutsomeone who's asking about
someone else's death.
If you're asking about your own, that's in, you know, in your
(14:02):
chart.
But if you, if you're lookingat someone else's death, that's
someone else's chart.
Back to rule one.
We don't have permission tolook at that chart.
Bootes (14:14):
Yeah.
Sunny (14:15):
You know, and especially not for their death, for Pete
sake, I'm sure nobody is goingto grant permission.
No way, if you know, if that,if that was the question.
Yeah yeah, there are so manydifferent interpretations of
(14:40):
astrological phenomenon.
There are hundreds, maybe nothundreds, but there are a lot.
Okay, you know, we all, forexample, we all are experiencing
the same moon sign right now,every one of us, and that
pertains to our chart in certainways, but we there's billions
(15:07):
of people and we all have thesame moon happening, right, or
we all have the same.
Let's take something that movesslower.
We all have the same Uranus.
Okay, uranus in Taurus.
Okay, it looks different in yourchart and my chart, and this
(15:28):
person's and this person's andthis, and even if I, when I look
at that, it's like it stillcould, it can manifest in a
bunch of different ways.
Okay, the classic line that Isay to my clients all the time
is, you know, I mean, I mean,look at your chart and I may see
(15:49):
that it looks like you're goingto get hit by a bus, okay, but
here's the thing Is it thatyou're actually physically going
to get run over by a bus or isit that you're going to feel
like you got hit by a bus?
Two very different outcomes,right?
(16:11):
Yeah, one involves, likeemergency rooms and things, and,
and, but it's the same energy,okay, so I don't, I don't
predict dire outcomes, I justdon't.
I talk about okay, there's thisenergy.
(16:32):
You want to be careful aroundthis.
You might want to, you know,maybe avoid crossing the street
for a little while I might saysomething like that, you know.
Or or just be very cautiousaround this because you know
there's, there's some energyhere that's like this can be
rough for you Okay, muchdifferent than there's an evil,
(16:57):
malignant influence in your lifeand you're you know you're
being haunted by that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah.
Sunny (17:07):
I just, I just won't do it.
I just won't do it.
It's a lot of it.
It seems it's trying to createa dependency on that astrologer
or that reader.
(17:28):
This is true for any, any kindof reading, I think you know,
because if they saw, if they sawa terrible thing in my future,
then I need to come back andfind out what I need to do.
Or is it gone yet, you know,and so on and so forth.
(17:49):
It's I just, I just don't do it, I won't do it.
Bootes (17:53):
Okay, yeah, so that's a really interesting note to touch
on is an astrologer creating adependence on themselves?
So what kind of things can leadtowards creating a dependence
on you?
(18:14):
Or rather, what do you avoid inorder to not bring that about?
Sunny (18:28):
I, what do I avoid?
I avoid language that takeschoice, the choice point, away
from my client.
It's there are certainly thingsthat as we encounter, you know,
(18:51):
as we go through life, thereare certainly things that happen
that we don't have choice in.
Okay, but when I, when there'sstuff like that, I mean I, I do
believe that there's always somekind of choice, okay, and so I
(19:12):
talk to my clients about energyand I I talk to them about you
know this, this, there's thisheavy energy, for example.
You know some need and I tellthem why.
I talk to them about okay, soPluto is here and Pluto is about
(19:35):
secrets and power, and andthink of any words, other words
right now, but you know.
So I talked to them about theenergy of Pluto and how that can
look like.
You know this in a person, orthat in a person, or it could
just be an event, but it's, it'sthis energy that you're, that
(19:57):
you're dealing with, and so youknow what I, what I suggest you
do, is, you know, be cautious,take care, so on and so forth.
I don't I don't think I'mexactly a Paulina, because I do
(20:17):
talk a lot about you know, the,the struggle and the issues that
are happening, but my after I,after I get done talking about
the struggles, then I'm talkingabout what do you?
What do we do now?
What, how do we?
How do we deal with that?
(20:38):
You know where do we go withthat?
Instead of you're just this,you're just a victim of this
heavy energy and sorry.
Bootes (20:54):
Yeah, because I mean, I'm the one that leaves somebody
feeling bad.
But then also, you know, as a,you know considering doing
readings as a business, that'sjust not good business.
You don't want to leavesomebody feeling hopeless.
That's not going to, you know,bolster their faith in you as an
astrologer or an astrology ingeneral.
Sunny (21:18):
Yeah, I mean I.
You know, I've never evenreally considered what it takes
to like make my clients needdependent on me.
You know, I'm sure thathopelessness is a stage, it's a
part of it.
You know I'm hopeless, and thenyou know, you know, as a client
(21:43):
is thinking this is hopeless,you know, and so this person,
this astrologer, is going to beable to tell me what to do.
I don't know, I just don't playthat game, right, I just don't
play that.
I'm very much about empoweringpeople to make choices that you
(22:04):
know, that work for them.
You know, and I do have, I dohave some clients that come back
to me on a regular basis.
Some of them come back just foran annual checkup kind of thing
.
They do, you know, a soloreturn chart and which changes,
of course, every year, and youknow we play around with that.
(22:29):
Some other clients of mine.
They come back and they'relooking for timing.
You know I have a thing comingup and I want to know when is a
good time to.
You know it's a goodastrological signature for this,
you know.
So you know we do fine, but no,it's.
(22:52):
You got to be really careful.
You got to realize that you'redealing with people's lives and
because it's something, it's asystem that they don't
understand Right, it's alanguage, a system, a you know
(23:13):
this chart thing.
You know most people don't knowwhat it is and so they have to.
They either have to believewhatever you tell them, or else
they don't, in which case whythey're not even there?
Okay, so everybody who's thereis there because they believe
that you can tell them somethingabout their own lives.
Bootes (23:38):
Right.
Sunny (23:39):
You know, you know.
Bootes (23:40):
Someone can figure out all their own.
Sunny (23:42):
Yeah, yeah.
And so you know that's a hugeresponsibility and it's, you
know, it's super important tojust remember I'm dealing with.
This is not just a chart, thisis not just symbols on a piece
of paper.
This is a person, you know,with hopes and fears and dreams,
(24:10):
and you know.
You just have to be really,really cognizant of that.
Bootes (24:19):
Right, what are?
Have you ever done a readingwhere you had to like you know,
maybe there's specific inquirywas about scary things, like if
somebody is saying when am Igoing to die or what is going to
(24:44):
be the most difficult part ofmy life and how can I prepare
for it and stuff, you know whereit's there, they're inviting
you into the scary stuff thatthey want your help with.
How do you kind of tread intothose waters while maintaining
(25:08):
ethical ground?
Sunny (25:10):
Okay, yeah, I mean.
So I'm thinking of one clientin particular who's I do not
have the permission to share itall at all.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Okay, yeah.
Sunny (25:24):
But you know, it was a frightening situation that they
were.
You know that they were dealingwith or afraid of, and in that
case, what I do and what I youknow what I did and what I do is
(25:45):
I am looking for support forthis person.
Okay, I am looking for, youknow, I'm not trying to like
blow sunshine, you know, but Iam.
I figure they come to me, theyare already upset enough and the
(26:12):
last thing that these peopleyou know that this client needs
is for me to say, you know, oh,yes, this is a terrible
situation and this is going togo on for six months.
And oh God, you know, I don'teven look for that kind of thing
and you know, if I can seesomething that's like where it's
(26:34):
going to, oh, that's, it'sgoing to change immediately,
we'll talk about that.
But if it's not, if it's a month, six months, whatever, you know
, I don't do that because it'sthat if you are at your extreme,
(26:56):
you know, and then someone says, well, in three months it'll
get better.
Three months is a long frickingtime when you're, you know,
when you're hopeless andhopeless, and you know all of
that.
So, no, I don't do that.
I talk about what's here,what's coming?
(27:17):
You know what I'm seeingshowing up, you know.
Bootes (27:23):
Yeah, just trying to provide positivity to what is
explicitly an unfortunatesituation.
Right, right, right.
Sunny (27:33):
And to some extent, I'm like, in some ways, I feel badly
.
That that's.
I mean, I feel badly about thewhole situation.
It's, you know, it's a horrible.
It's a horrible situation andyou know, I want to be able to
(27:58):
bolster people up when they'redealing with, you know, crisis,
okay, and so that's just how Ichoose to do it.
You know, it's not thatsomebody else is wrong.
I'm just feeling like I putmyself on the other side of the
(28:19):
table a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot.
And if I'm, you know, if I'mfeeling the way that this person
has expressed that they'refeeling, and then the astrologer
says you know, three months,six months, I, that is not a
(28:39):
good feeling to me, you know.
I don't feel like that'ssomething that's helpful, you
know.
Bootes (28:47):
But it, then you know, like obviously, if they
specifically ask how long isthis going to last, because they
want to know For me, sometimesyou know if I'm dealing with
something I want to, and you cansee I come to you and I ask you
you know, how long is my catgoing to have to wear booties
(29:14):
because she burned her pawsgoing outside when it was too
hot?
Then you know I want, I want to,I want an answer about
timeframe specifically, and Iknow that with human beings and
with the psychology of ourbehavior, we want to know how
long something is going to last.
We want to know where the endof this road is, because
(29:40):
otherwise, you know, I wouldrather here it's going to be a
year, then think that maybeit'll just go on indefinitely
for some negative situation thatI'm in.
So if somebody asks, then youwould be more likely to say like
, okay, yeah, I can see here itsuggests that it's only going to
be another four months thatyou're dealing with this, or you
(30:05):
have to break the harsh news ofsaying no, it looks like this
could last the rest of your life.
You know that's something thatyou don't want to have to tell
somebody.
But if they asked are you goingto give them the honest answer
about what they inquired?
Sunny (30:23):
Yes, I, no, I'm not going to lie to anybody.
If it's if it's so, a situationlike your, like your example,
that would be something that Iwouldn't have any trouble at all
answering, regardless.
You know, because I wouldn'tfeel like you are, you know, at
(30:46):
your, at your, at your wit's end, you know.
So you know I would, I wouldtotally go.
Yeah, you know it's probablygoing to be.
You know, eight months lookslike for you know, for the kitty
, and you know, get them somecooch shoes.
But when it comes to dire,devastating kind of situations
(31:16):
like I was referencing before, Ican't say what it was.
I gauge that, I judge that andI would rather.
I'm not going to lie.
If somebody says I wanna knowhow long this is going to last,
(31:39):
I would tell them I would temperit so hard it wouldn't be funny
because I would still betalking about support and help
and things like that.
But no, I won't lie about it,but I won't lead with it if it's
(32:02):
looking like a long time.
Bootes (32:04):
Okay, yeah.
Then, though, if it's somethingthat normally you would try and
avoid the conversation abouthow long it's gonna be, but then
they're asking, they're talkingabout.
I've got, say, somebody bringsup romantic relationship
(32:29):
problems that they're having andsaying I wanna get it gained a
little bit of insight into whatthe heck is going on with my
partner and my significant other, and I wanna know, if this is
something that, how to workthrough it.
(32:54):
And also, we're getting marriedin six months, but then you, as
the astrologer, look at theirchart and there ain't no end in
sight for the issues that you'redealing with, and you are
getting the impression off ofthe chart that this is not
(33:14):
something you should followthrough with.
But that's not their questionto bring it up.
Sunny (33:24):
Right, bring up the.
Should they get married?
Should they actually getmarried?
Bootes (33:28):
They didn't ask, they're telling you that the plan is to
get married, but they wannaknow how to work through the
issues they're having now.
And you look and you see thereis no way out of the issues you
are having now and yourimpression is that this is not
(33:48):
going to be a good long lastingrelation.
Even if it lasts long, it's notgonna be good.
Oh, then that, if that's nottheir question because on the
one hand, you are aware of thefact that you might be saving
them some trouble, but on theother hand, they might just not
wanna hear it you know what'sethical to let them go on in
(34:10):
their delusion or to give themthe hard truth.
Sunny (34:15):
Yeah.
So ethicality isn't about it's.
If you see a train coming for acar on the tracks, ethicality
says you get people out of thatcar as much to the end, to the
level that you can.
I often feel like I am agrandmother and when I'm in a
(34:45):
situation like that, I kind offall back on grandma energy.
You know, and I will say tothem something along the lines
of this looks like thissituation that you're describing
looks like it's gonna go on forquite some time, and are you
(35:07):
100% sure that you wanna enterinto a you know, a commitment
with this person?
Yeah, you know.
Bootes (35:19):
Okay, so just try and bring up.
Not necessarily you're notgonna tell them like don't do it
, but you're gonna be like, areyou really sure this is actually
what's gonna be best for you,right?
Sunny (35:30):
right.
Bootes (35:31):
And I'll leave it at that.
And you don't tell them like,oh no, you've got these aspects
happening between the two of youand with the transits of, like,
the day that you're planning toget married.
It's just a mess.
This is a disaster.
Get out of there.
Sunny (35:44):
I mean, okay, so I probably do talk about the
transits and the astrology muchmore than maybe some other
astrologers.
I know some of the astrologerswho just kind of look at the
chart and then they'll juststart talking about your life,
your personality.
I'm always bouncing back andforth.
(36:07):
I'm like okay, so you have themoon here in the seventh house,
and so that means that your, youknow that relationships are
really important to you, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
and you know transits.
We have right now we've gotNeptune coming into the seventh
house, and so, you know, it'sthis situation where it's like
(36:30):
I'm not sure, I don't knowwhat's real.
I'm not very clear about this,you know.
And so no, no, no, no, no.
So I kind of fold it all in, ifthat makes sense.
But yeah, I don't, I don'tbelieve.
You know, obviously this isyour own life and you are the
(36:56):
architect of your own life andyou know, all I can do is say
what I see, you know, and I dothat.
I don't think it's unethical toquestion a relationship in
terms of you know, is this, areyou certain this is what you
(37:17):
want?
Because it looks like it's kindof kind of messy.
Bootes (37:22):
Yeah yeah.
And then if you're able to pullout some details, like it seems
like there's some issues with,like, maybe, communication and
priorities, and then they go, ohyeah, that's totally like the
root of our issue and stuff,then you can be like, well, it
looks like that's, you know,like that might be a prevailing
(37:45):
theme throughout the entirety ofthe relationship.
Because, like you were saying,you know, but if somebody's
about to drive off a cliff andyou get a chance to talk to them
beforehand, you're gonna saylike hey, you should probably
stop the car, because it wouldbe unethical not to tell them
(38:09):
that If they're speeding towardsa cliff and they can't see
where they're going, they don'trealize where things are headed,
but you can see it clearly.
It would be.
You know, in that situation itmight be unethical not to give
them a warning about what ishappening, and because we can
(38:31):
all get really caught up in.
You know, love makes you dostupid things sometimes and
you've got your blinders on androsy colored glasses, so, like
sure, there's red flags.
All the flags are red.
What's the issue?
Sunny (38:48):
Well, and see, here's the thing it's like.
You know, by putting it interms of are you sure you want
to?
I think you might want to lookat this again.
You know those kinds of thatkind of language.
(39:09):
It keeps the power where itbelongs, which is with the
client.
They are the ultimate arbiterof their own position.
If they do marry that person,they are the ones dealing with
that situation, not me, right?
(39:31):
So I don't.
You know, I very much talkabout your choices, you know,
and the way that things, the waythat things seem to be looking,
but you know, here's this, andyou still have a choice around
(39:51):
that you know not.
Oh, this, you know you'redestined for, you're destined
for a terrible relationship.
Well then, okay, if I'mdestined for a terrible
relationship, you might as wellstay here then.
Thanks.
Bootes (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I know, thank you.
Sunny (40:13):
Yeah, exactly so.
You know it might be.
It's like this, is looking likethis now, but you know we
always retain the power ofchoice.
So that's the way that Ipresent almost everything,
(40:34):
negative and positive.
It's the power of choice.
This is what it looks like, andthen we add the missing
ingredient, which is what youdecide to do.
Bootes (40:53):
Right your choice.
That's something that in a lotof the older astrological texts
I've been checking out, is thata lot of them you know it's in
Abrahamic faiths is where a lotof this comes from, and so
they're talking about.
You know you can only read asfar as God will let you, and you
(41:18):
know that these things that youcan foresee or the answers that
you get out of a horrorquestion, all of it is still
entirely dependent on the willof the one, or of God or of the
universe of the higher level ofintelligence that you can get
(41:39):
all the astrological readingsthat you want, but ultimately
we're you know, the stars aren'tthe ones calling the shots.
They're just telling the storyof what's going to happen and
ultimately, the author, or theauthors can they can change
(42:00):
things.
I kind of trailed off andforgot where I was going with
that.
Yeah, all right.
Well, on the subject of ethicsin astrology, do you feel like
(42:21):
we've done a good job ontouching on everything you had
thought of?
Sunny (42:26):
The only thing that I don't think that we did talk
about was children.
Bootes (42:34):
Yeah.
So why won't you read a chartand tell an eight year old about
their future?
Sunny (42:43):
Well, I mean, it goes back even farther than that.
You know, it's very common forparents who have just given
birth to a child even to say wesee, you know what's what's
going to happen.
You know, and there is.
(43:04):
I mean I will talk to parentsabout their child's moon sign.
Bootes (43:12):
Okay.
Sunny (43:13):
The moon sign.
It talks very much about theiremotional development, you know,
and what kind of just you know,just kind of the quality of
their, of their childhood, ortheir childness, or you know,
it's like the moon is the first,the first foray into
(43:36):
development, into, you know, ofemotions.
Okay, so, yeah, so I will say,you know, okay, so your child
has an Aries moon, so why, golly, you're trying to get them to
sit down and it's going to behard.
Let them run around, you know.
Or your child has a Pisces moon, and so they're, you know
(43:58):
they're going to be just prettychill all the time and you know,
but that's a helpful thing toparents, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Right.
Sunny (44:08):
And I pretty much go no farther until you know like mid
teen years, and then I'm eveneven then I'm still just talking
about the evening sun sign,your, your Mercury, venus, moon,
mars, pretty much stick in thatin that territory.
(44:31):
The overarching reason for nottelling, not meeting a child's
full chart is because it becomesprescriptive.
You know it's like okay.
So, for example, I have thispersonal thing with Mars being
(44:58):
cancer.
Okay, I'm like to to my.
From my experience, people withMars and cancer are terrifying.
Okay, they'll lose it, you know, and so so.
So let's say you have a childand I say to you oh, your child
(45:20):
has Mars and cancer.
Oh, my God, they're going tohave the worst temper.
They're just going to screamand run and you know mayhem and
you know yeah.
Okay, Well, you know that's truesometimes of a Mars and cancer
(45:42):
child, but it's not true all thetime.
But if I've already told youthat your child is going to be
an emotional tempest, that'swhat you're going to, that's
what you're going to help them,Help them live Right, Because
you expect it.
And so, by you expecting it,you project it onto that child.
(46:05):
Okay, and so we have a childwho really embodies way more
than they might otherwise, Okay,or maybe I see a divorce, Okay,
and I tell you well, you know,it looks like your, your, your
child's going to deal withdivorced parents, what we're not
(46:29):
divorced.
When are we going to getdivorced?
Right, it becomes okay.
Well, obviously, we're going toget divorced.
That astrologer said right, soit's, you know, it's all these
kind of things where it's likethere's.
So this is back to the power ofastrology and that people you
(46:51):
know are they.
They give you a lot of power toyou know, say what is true and
what is not true about theirlives and you can set a child up
for I mean, you can set them upfor marvelous things, or you
can set them up for chaos, butit's, it's not.
(47:11):
None of it is is good.
Bootes (47:14):
Yeah.
Sunny (47:16):
And you know.
Let the child embody their ownchart and let them figure out
whether they want a reading whenit's time for them, when
they're old enough to consent.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Right.
Bootes (47:30):
Okay, thank you for that .
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Thanks for watching.
You know you're gonna if youhave any level of understanding
about astrology and you'relooking at your own kids' chart,
you're gonna be able todelineate some stuff yourself.
(47:53):
But it's gonna be a little bitmore informed by what you want
for your kid and what you'rehoping for them.
But if somebody else comes inand tells you and you know
people tend to like we kind ofput on, not in a negative way,
but we kind of put on ourimpressionable hat when we're
(48:16):
going in for a reading becausewe are asking somebody else
about what you know the cosmossays about such and such a
subject.
So, you're going in there andasking about your kid.
Just like you said, if you, ifyou go and tell them that, oh,
your kid's gonna be a nightmarethe first time that something
(48:41):
difficult comes up with the kid.
They're gonna be like oh my God, it's just like the astrologer
woman said they were right.
Sunny (48:48):
Yeah, they're right.
Bootes (48:50):
And you know, you might not ever expect any better from
your kid because, like Iactually have a friend who has
that placement that we werediscussing Mars and cancer, and
there are places in there areprobably places in my life where
(49:11):
you could look at me and say,oh, he definitely has Mars and
cancer, because he's actuallylike that, because we can embody
so many different things, thedifferent periods in our life.
But there are probably alsoreally, you know, like I said,
it's my friend, this is one ofmy like top three favorite
people in the world and I wouldnot take their Mars out of
(49:35):
cancer, even if it has, you know, represented some difficulties
that they've dealt with in life.
But you know, it's also part ofthe essence of the beauty of
this person that just becauseemotions can be difficult
doesn't mean that they're notworth half.
And you can.
(49:57):
You can nurture and feed acrabby Mars, or you can, you
know, just say, ah, that's awful, I don't want to deal with any
of it and be totally dismissiveand rejecting of the.
Yet, for however difficult itis for you, it's way more
difficult for your kid, you know, and you know and so you know,
(50:22):
like here's the thing with theMars and cancer bit.
Sunny (50:25):
So I in my own chart have son and mercury in cancer and
then one of the notes.
But so my theory, and you knowI have, I have two specific
people who embody for me theMars and cancer trope.
(50:47):
Okay, but if I were to look attheir Mars and the degree of
their Mars and whether they'relike they're probably right
there on my son, right, yeah,which would very much
personalize that experience ofMars and cancer.
(51:09):
And but as an astrologer, thenI get to take if I'm not aware
of what I'm doing, I get to takethat Mars and cancer trope that
I've, you know, my own personalargument with Mars and cancer
and projected out onto otherpeople.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Right.
Sunny (51:32):
You know.
So a reason for not just ethicsbut also, you know, working
through your own stuff beforeyou take on the job of reading
people's charts.
Bootes (51:49):
Yeah.
Sunny (51:50):
Which is another one.
Bootes (51:52):
There might also be.
You know, just because, justbecause you or I as an
astrologian has come acrosspeople who have embodied the
difficulty of X planet in Y sign, it doesn't mean that there
aren't a million people outthere who have that same
(52:13):
placement but have neverexperienced any of those
problems because there's there'snot at a minimum of nine other
things going on in their chart.
You know they have a differentascended.
Somebody with a with a Torah'sascended and Mars and cancer
might embody that totallydifferent than somebody with a
(52:34):
Aquarius ascended and Mars andcancer, because it's providing
different aspects.
It's a totally different notethat's being played, or cord
that's being played depending onwhat else is going on in the
chart.
So you can't just say and we'repicking on Mars and cancer is a
lot, I'm sorry if anybody hasthat they're saying that
(52:58):
somebody without placement isgoing to be X because you are
not that placement.
They are not that placement area reflection of the entire
chart and everything that'sgoing on inside of that, in
addition to the charts of thepeople who raised them and the
charts of the people thatthey've been, the charts of the,
(53:19):
the chart of the country thatthey live in.
You know there's so much elsegoing on that no one no even I
could spend my entire lifeseeing people with Venus and
Aquarius be one way and neversee the entirety of what a Venus
and Aquarius can look like.
Sunny (53:40):
Right, well, and I mean, yeah, this goes back to the the
whole Sun sign debate.
You know that we've talkedabout before.
It's like you know, no, youknow Mars, venus, any, any, any
planet, any placement.
It's not destiny, it just is adata point.
(54:05):
It's a part of what you, ofwhat you are, yeah, yeah, and I
deeply apologize Mars and cancerpeople.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Thanks so much for being here with us today To keep
getting more astrology withsunny and boots.
Like and subscribe.
Bootes (54:26):
To talk with Sunny in an astrological consultation.
Visit sunniesastrologycom toschedule an appointment To reach
Sunny and boots about the show.
Email us atcontactatastrologyafpodcastcom.
Links in the description.
Hey Astro Friends, this is Astrology AF, the show
that talks everything astrologyabove and below the totally real
, not at all illusory sky.
I'm Sunny, your hostess, withover 30 years of chart reading
experience.
Bootes (00:26):
And I'm Boots, your hostling, with almost 30 years
experience questioning innocentpeople to tears.
We're here to walk with youthrough the twinkling starlight
into the basic, the advanced andthe obscure.
Today's topic that we haddiscussed previously was going
to be ethics right, yes, okay.
What are some of the areas youare thinking of going with?
Sunny (00:51):
Actually looking at someone's chart without their
permission is enough.
Forecasting for a child issomething I won't do.
Some astrologers will, but eventhey have limitations.
(01:14):
Thinking about or displayingsomeone's chart without their
permission is enough.
Even with permission, there's awhole set of things that are
no-knows.
(01:34):
For example, if I have a clientand I'm working with them and I
say this thing about your chartis very interesting and I would
like to, I want to study thisand more.
I study that and work with thatand find more information.
(01:59):
If they give me permission toshare their chart they are not
giving me permission to sharetheir identity I say, okay, I
have this.
As a matter of fact, this issomething that's come up
(02:24):
recently.
There's somebody that I've donea chart with that has an
amazing Venus retrograde storyand full setup.
I can't talk about it because Idon't yet have their permission
to share.
When they give permission, I'mplanning on asking for that
(02:50):
because we're going to beworking together.
That doesn't mean that I cansay who they are or where they
live.
Casting a chart, you have to usethe birthplace.
If you don't have a birthplace,if you obscure the birthplace,
(03:15):
you change the chart.
You need to keep the birthplaceoriginal, but you definitely
don't need to keep their nameattached to it.
It should not be attached.
In telling the biographicaldetails or the biographical,
(03:37):
this is what happened in thelife of this person.
You have to obscure as much asyou can.
You can obscure the gendersimply by saying they.
That way it's like well, isthat a guy, is that a woman, is
that a they?
I don't know.
You talk about theirbiographical, the things that
(03:59):
happened in a very obscure way.
Take out details that wouldidentify in any way.
It's a whole thing because youcan look at a chart and foresee
(04:19):
all kinds of events and then beable to attach that back and say
, oh, I know who that is,because the astrologer wasn't
careful with their identity.
Now I can go create mayhem ortake that chart and use it for
my own ends.
(04:40):
I'm predicting a divorce thatthis person is going to have.
Maybe that person is not eventhinking about divorce in there.
Does that make sense?
Bootes (04:57):
Yeah, because there's also a very real possibility of
just planting ideas in people'sminds.
If you hear it from anastrologer and this is something
that you believe in, it tiesright into the stereotype of why
(05:22):
some people poo poo astrologyin the first place is they say
that somebody is going to breakup with somebody else because
their astrologer said the sun isin asparagus and so you're
going to break up with X and X.
If people take you seriously,then that just thoughts are a
(05:47):
powerful thing.
Maybe it wasn't in the chart atall, but now that they've heard
it from you and they believethat and they think it has
something to do with their fate,then they're going to go off
and act a fool when they didn'thave to in the first place.
There's also I don't know toomuch about this, I'm not sure if
(06:14):
you do, but I have heard thatin some traditions, particularly
the Chinese tradition, it's athing not to share your chart
with people and that anastrologer keeps your chart well
guarded because it can revealyour weaknesses and it could
(06:36):
make you potentially vulnerableto an attack from an unsavory
party.
People could potentially takeadvantage of you knowing that
their moon is in Taurus.
They're soft and squishy andthey're going to be manipulable
via X, and X means this is thekind of stuff they're going to
(06:59):
care about.
This is the kind of stuff thatI can weasel my way in and do
this kind of stuff with.
Me and a friend of mine wererecently talking with another
friend who he's not I guess hewas into astrology previously,
but we were looking at charts ofvarious people that had been
(07:21):
involved in our lives and I waskind of sitting there wondering
where are we on the kind ofspectrum of ethicality with this
, especially if you're not doinganything with it?
That's one thing.
(07:41):
If you're looking at it and say, perhaps you have information
and you pull up a chart ofsomebody who you're trying to
get with, you're trying to makeit with, and you see, oh, they
might be going through a timeright now where they're
vulnerable and you choose totake advantage of that, that
(08:05):
could be unethical, right.
Sunny (08:09):
Which is why?
Because it doesn't matter whatthe reason is.
This is why it is unethical tolook at someone's chart without
their permission.
Bootes (08:22):
All right well, done me.
I'm sorry.
Sunny (08:27):
You didn't mean any harm and you didn't do any harm, but
it's just kind of it's likelooking in their underwear
drawer, you know.
Or even if you don't doanything with it, that's
knowledge that is not yours,that's not.
(08:48):
You know that they haven'tgranted you.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah.
Sunny (08:52):
You know, yeah, so that's a mistake, yeah.
And the way that you can getaround this is by saying to the
person is it all right?
If I look at your chart, yeah,is that okay?
And they may say, well, why doyou want to?
(09:15):
And you can have a conversationabout that.
Bootes (09:24):
I'm sorry my screen is shaking a little bit.
My cat has decided to burrowunderneath the table that my
computer is sitting on.
Sunny (09:35):
And you know, to go further with that, because if
you're talking about someonewhose chart exists and they
don't know what you could dowith it, or they don't know you
know why that's a vulnerableplace.
Okay, maybe going further andsaying you know, all I want to
(10:00):
do is I want to.
You know, I'm trying to findout, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
You know that really puts youin the clear.
You know, just saying, well,you know, can I look at your
chart?
And then they say yes, and thenyou go and try to find out, you
(10:21):
know when they're likely tolose money in the stock market
or something.
And so you can, you know, goafter that chase, that
vulnerability.
You know you are still inunethical territory, even though
they have said, yes, you canlook at my chart.
Bootes (10:40):
Okay, right, because you can lie to them.
Everything is always an optionthat you must choose not to go
with.
Sunny (10:48):
Right, right, and you know, and if somebody I mean
it's like if somebody doesn'tknow what knowledge a birth
chart has, what it contains,then their permission is limited
(11:09):
.
That makes sense If we talkabout, well, you know, a birth
chart talks it.
But you know, and I can look atyour birth chart and I can
figure out, like, when you'relikely to have relationship
troubles or money troubles ortroubles at work.
Okay, and you're granting mepermission to look at all of
(11:32):
those things.
They might not give youpermission.
Yeah, If they, because if theyactually knew what was entailed,
you know now, and that is youknow.
That's one of the things when Italk to people that either I
(11:54):
already have looked at theirchart or they've.
Like, I'm sending them theirchart after we've done your
reading.
I'm very careful to say thankyou for entrusting me with this,
because this is, this is a bigthing, Even if they don't know
it.
Bootes (12:16):
There's a.
So well, I guess maybe weshouldn't get into details about
what other kind of dirtyinformation can you get on
somebody through their chart?
That's not what this, it's notwhat the episode is about.
Let the people do their ownmachinations, but there's what
other kinds of things?
So would you, if you see in achart like what will you just
(12:41):
what would be an unethical thingto say in a reading?
If you see it Like you know,there's stuff where, if you're
doing a reading for somebody,even though they didn't
specifically ask a question, youmight be like, oh, and you know
, by the way, you should maybedo some extra leg stretches
because your knees arevulnerable, Right, Nobody's
(13:04):
really going to get upset withyou about that, but one of the
things that, if you find it doyou just not bring up.
Sunny (13:12):
Okay, good question, death, not that I have ever
really seen.
I haven't ever seen anything.
It's like.
You know completely, oh my God,there's no way that could be
interpreted as anything else.
You know, that's, that's, but Iwon't go there either way.
Bootes (13:37):
Okay, even if you're asked to.
Sunny (13:39):
Correct.
Bootes (13:40):
Okay.
Sunny (13:41):
Yeah, I won't.
First of all, it's it'softentimes with to look at to
find someone's.
I assume we're talking aboutsomeone who's asking about
someone else's death.
If you're asking about your own, that's in, you know, in your
(14:02):
chart.
But if you, if you're lookingat someone else's death, that's
someone else's chart.
Back to rule one.
We don't have permission tolook at that chart.
Bootes (14:14):
Yeah.
Sunny (14:15):
You know, and especially not for their death, for Pete
sake, I'm sure nobody is goingto grant permission.
No way, if you know, if that,if that was the question.
Yeah yeah, there are so manydifferent interpretations of
(14:40):
astrological phenomenon.
There are hundreds, maybe nothundreds, but there are a lot.
Okay, you know, we all, forexample, we all are experiencing
the same moon sign right now,every one of us, and that
pertains to our chart in certainways, but we there's billions
(15:07):
of people and we all have thesame moon happening, right, or
we all have the same.
Let's take something that movesslower.
We all have the same Uranus.
Okay, uranus in Taurus.
Okay, it looks different in yourchart and my chart, and this
(15:28):
person's and this person's andthis, and even if I, when I look
at that, it's like it stillcould, it can manifest in a
bunch of different ways.
Okay, the classic line that Isay to my clients all the time
is, you know, I mean, I mean,look at your chart and I may see
(15:49):
that it looks like you're goingto get hit by a bus, okay, but
here's the thing Is it thatyou're actually physically going
to get run over by a bus or isit that you're going to feel
like you got hit by a bus?
Two very different outcomes,right?
(16:11):
Yeah, one involves, likeemergency rooms and things, and,
and, but it's the same energy,okay, so I don't, I don't
predict dire outcomes, I justdon't.
I talk about okay, there's thisenergy.
(16:32):
You want to be careful aroundthis.
You might want to, you know,maybe avoid crossing the street
for a little while I might saysomething like that, you know.
Or or just be very cautiousaround this because you know
there's, there's some energyhere that's like this can be
rough for you Okay, muchdifferent than there's an evil,
(16:57):
malignant influence in your lifeand you're you know you're
being haunted by that.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah.
Sunny (17:07):
I just, I just won't do it.
I just won't do it.
It's a lot of it.
It seems it's trying to createa dependency on that astrologer
or that reader.
(17:28):
This is true for any, any kindof reading, I think you know,
because if they saw, if they sawa terrible thing in my future,
then I need to come back andfind out what I need to do.
Or is it gone yet, you know,and so on and so forth.
(17:49):
It's I just, I just don't do it, I won't do it.
Bootes (17:53):
Okay, yeah, so that's a really interesting note to touch
on is an astrologer creating adependence on themselves?
So what kind of things can leadtowards creating a dependence
on you?
(18:14):
Or rather, what do you avoid inorder to not bring that about?
Sunny (18:28):
I, what do I avoid?
I avoid language that takeschoice, the choice point, away
from my client.
It's there are certainly thingsthat as we encounter, you know,
(18:51):
as we go through life, thereare certainly things that happen
that we don't have choice in.
Okay, but when I, when there'sstuff like that, I mean I, I do
believe that there's always somekind of choice, okay, and so I
(19:12):
talk to my clients about energyand I I talk to them about you
know this, this, there's thisheavy energy, for example.
You know some need and I tellthem why.
I talk to them about okay, soPluto is here and Pluto is about
(19:35):
secrets and power, and andthink of any words, other words
right now, but you know.
So I talked to them about theenergy of Pluto and how that can
look like.
You know this in a person, orthat in a person, or it could
just be an event, but it's, it'sthis energy that you're, that
(19:57):
you're dealing with, and so youknow what I, what I suggest you
do, is, you know, be cautious,take care, so on and so forth.
I don't I don't think I'mexactly a Paulina, because I do
(20:17):
talk a lot about you know, the,the struggle and the issues that
are happening, but my after I,after I get done talking about
the struggles, then I'm talkingabout what do you?
What do we do now?
What, how do we?
How do we deal with that?
(20:38):
You know where do we go withthat?
Instead of you're just this,you're just a victim of this
heavy energy and sorry.
Bootes (20:54):
Yeah, because I mean, I'm the one that leaves somebody
feeling bad.
But then also, you know, as a,you know considering doing
readings as a business, that'sjust not good business.
You don't want to leavesomebody feeling hopeless.
That's not going to, you know,bolster their faith in you as an
astrologer or an astrology ingeneral.
Sunny (21:18):
Yeah, I mean I.
You know, I've never evenreally considered what it takes
to like make my clients needdependent on me.
You know, I'm sure thathopelessness is a stage, it's a
part of it.
You know I'm hopeless, and thenyou know, you know, as a client
(21:43):
is thinking this is hopeless,you know, and so this person,
this astrologer, is going to beable to tell me what to do.
I don't know, I just don't playthat game, right, I just don't
play that.
I'm very much about empoweringpeople to make choices that you
(22:04):
know, that work for them.
You know, and I do have, I dohave some clients that come back
to me on a regular basis.
Some of them come back just foran annual checkup kind of thing
.
They do, you know, a soloreturn chart and which changes,
of course, every year, and youknow we play around with that.
(22:29):
Some other clients of mine.
They come back and they'relooking for timing.
You know I have a thing comingup and I want to know when is a
good time to.
You know it's a goodastrological signature for this,
you know.
So you know we do fine, but no,it's.
(22:52):
You got to be really careful.
You got to realize that you'redealing with people's lives and
because it's something, it's asystem that they don't
understand Right, it's alanguage, a system, a you know
(23:13):
this chart thing.
You know most people don't knowwhat it is and so they have to.
They either have to believewhatever you tell them, or else
they don't, in which case whythey're not even there?
Okay, so everybody who's thereis there because they believe
that you can tell them somethingabout their own lives.
Bootes (23:38):
Right.
Sunny (23:39):
You know, you know.
Bootes (23:40):
Someone can figure out all their own.
Sunny (23:42):
Yeah, yeah.
And so you know that's a hugeresponsibility and it's, you
know, it's super important tojust remember I'm dealing with.
This is not just a chart, thisis not just symbols on a piece
of paper.
This is a person, you know,with hopes and fears and dreams,
(24:10):
and you know.
You just have to be really,really cognizant of that.
Bootes (24:19):
Right, what are?
Have you ever done a readingwhere you had to like you know,
maybe there's specific inquirywas about scary things, like if
somebody is saying when am Igoing to die or what is going to
(24:44):
be the most difficult part ofmy life and how can I prepare
for it and stuff, you know whereit's there, they're inviting
you into the scary stuff thatthey want your help with.
How do you kind of tread intothose waters while maintaining
(25:08):
ethical ground?
Sunny (25:10):
Okay, yeah, I mean.
So I'm thinking of one clientin particular who's I do not
have the permission to share itall at all.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Okay, yeah.
Sunny (25:24):
But you know, it was a frightening situation that they
were.
You know that they were dealingwith or afraid of, and in that
case, what I do and what I youknow what I did and what I do is
(25:45):
I am looking for support forthis person.
Okay, I am looking for, youknow, I'm not trying to like
blow sunshine, you know, but Iam.
I figure they come to me, theyare already upset enough and the
(26:12):
last thing that these peopleyou know that this client needs
is for me to say, you know, oh,yes, this is a terrible
situation and this is going togo on for six months.
And oh God, you know, I don'teven look for that kind of thing
and you know, if I can seesomething that's like where it's
(26:34):
going to, oh, that's, it'sgoing to change immediately,
we'll talk about that.
But if it's not, if it's a month, six months, whatever, you know
, I don't do that because it'sthat if you are at your extreme,
(26:56):
you know, and then someone says, well, in three months it'll
get better.
Three months is a long frickingtime when you're, you know,
when you're hopeless andhopeless, and you know all of
that.
So, no, I don't do that.
I talk about what's here,what's coming?
(27:17):
You know what I'm seeingshowing up, you know.
Bootes (27:23):
Yeah, just trying to provide positivity to what is
explicitly an unfortunatesituation.
Right, right, right.
Sunny (27:33):
And to some extent, I'm like, in some ways, I feel badly
.
That that's.
I mean, I feel badly about thewhole situation.
It's, you know, it's a horrible.
It's a horrible situation andyou know, I want to be able to
(27:58):
bolster people up when they'redealing with, you know, crisis,
okay, and so that's just how Ichoose to do it.
You know, it's not thatsomebody else is wrong.
I'm just feeling like I putmyself on the other side of the
(28:19):
table a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot.
And if I'm, you know, if I'mfeeling the way that this person
has expressed that they'refeeling, and then the astrologer
says you know, three months,six months, I, that is not a
(28:39):
good feeling to me, you know.
I don't feel like that'ssomething that's helpful, you
know.
Bootes (28:47):
But it, then you know, like obviously, if they
specifically ask how long isthis going to last, because they
want to know For me, sometimesyou know if I'm dealing with
something I want to, and you cansee I come to you and I ask you
you know, how long is my catgoing to have to wear booties
(29:14):
because she burned her pawsgoing outside when it was too
hot?
Then you know I want, I want to,I want an answer about
timeframe specifically, and Iknow that with human beings and
with the psychology of ourbehavior, we want to know how
long something is going to last.
We want to know where the endof this road is, because
(29:40):
otherwise, you know, I wouldrather here it's going to be a
year, then think that maybeit'll just go on indefinitely
for some negative situation thatI'm in.
So if somebody asks, then youwould be more likely to say like
, okay, yeah, I can see here itsuggests that it's only going to
be another four months thatyou're dealing with this, or you
(30:05):
have to break the harsh news ofsaying no, it looks like this
could last the rest of your life.
You know that's something thatyou don't want to have to tell
somebody.
But if they asked are you goingto give them the honest answer
about what they inquired?
Sunny (30:23):
Yes, I, no, I'm not going to lie to anybody.
If it's if it's so, a situationlike your, like your example,
that would be something that Iwouldn't have any trouble at all
answering, regardless.
You know, because I wouldn'tfeel like you are, you know, at
(30:46):
your, at your, at your wit's end, you know.
So you know I would, I wouldtotally go.
Yeah, you know it's probablygoing to be.
You know, eight months lookslike for you know, for the kitty
, and you know, get them somecooch shoes.
But when it comes to dire,devastating kind of situations
(31:16):
like I was referencing before, Ican't say what it was.
I gauge that, I judge that andI would rather.
I'm not going to lie.
If somebody says I wanna knowhow long this is going to last,
(31:39):
I would tell them I would temperit so hard it wouldn't be funny
because I would still betalking about support and help
and things like that.
But no, I won't lie about it,but I won't lead with it if it's
(32:02):
looking like a long time.
Bootes (32:04):
Okay, yeah.
Then, though, if it's somethingthat normally you would try and
avoid the conversation abouthow long it's gonna be, but then
they're asking, they're talkingabout.
I've got, say, somebody bringsup romantic relationship
(32:29):
problems that they're having andsaying I wanna get it gained a
little bit of insight into whatthe heck is going on with my
partner and my significant other, and I wanna know, if this is
something that, how to workthrough it.
(32:54):
And also, we're getting marriedin six months, but then you, as
the astrologer, look at theirchart and there ain't no end in
sight for the issues that you'redealing with, and you are
getting the impression off ofthe chart that this is not
(33:14):
something you should followthrough with.
But that's not their questionto bring it up.
Sunny (33:24):
Right, bring up the.
Should they get married?
Should they actually getmarried?
Bootes (33:28):
They didn't ask, they're telling you that the plan is to
get married, but they wannaknow how to work through the
issues they're having now.
And you look and you see thereis no way out of the issues you
are having now and yourimpression is that this is not
(33:48):
going to be a good long lastingrelation.
Even if it lasts long, it's notgonna be good.
Oh, then that, if that's nottheir question because on the
one hand, you are aware of thefact that you might be saving
them some trouble, but on theother hand, they might just not
wanna hear it you know what'sethical to let them go on in
(34:10):
their delusion or to give themthe hard truth.
Sunny (34:15):
Yeah.
So ethicality isn't about it's.
If you see a train coming for acar on the tracks, ethicality
says you get people out of thatcar as much to the end, to the
level that you can.
I often feel like I am agrandmother and when I'm in a
(34:45):
situation like that, I kind offall back on grandma energy.
You know, and I will say tothem something along the lines
of this looks like thissituation that you're describing
looks like it's gonna go on forquite some time, and are you
(35:07):
100% sure that you wanna enterinto a you know, a commitment
with this person?
Yeah, you know.
Bootes (35:19):
Okay, so just try and bring up.
Not necessarily you're notgonna tell them like don't do it
, but you're gonna be like, areyou really sure this is actually
what's gonna be best for you,right?
Sunny (35:30):
right.
Bootes (35:31):
And I'll leave it at that.
And you don't tell them like,oh no, you've got these aspects
happening between the two of youand with the transits of, like,
the day that you're planning toget married.
It's just a mess.
This is a disaster.
Get out of there.
Sunny (35:44):
I mean, okay, so I probably do talk about the
transits and the astrology muchmore than maybe some other
astrologers.
I know some of the astrologerswho just kind of look at the
chart and then they'll juststart talking about your life,
your personality.
I'm always bouncing back andforth.
(36:07):
I'm like okay, so you have themoon here in the seventh house,
and so that means that your, youknow that relationships are
really important to you, andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
and you know transits.
We have right now we've gotNeptune coming into the seventh
house, and so, you know, it'sthis situation where it's like
(36:30):
I'm not sure, I don't knowwhat's real.
I'm not very clear about this,you know.
And so no, no, no, no, no.
So I kind of fold it all in, ifthat makes sense.
But yeah, I don't, I don'tbelieve.
You know, obviously this isyour own life and you are the
(36:56):
architect of your own life andyou know, all I can do is say
what I see, you know, and I dothat.
I don't think it's unethical toquestion a relationship in
terms of you know, is this, areyou certain this is what you
(37:17):
want?
Because it looks like it's kindof kind of messy.
Bootes (37:22):
Yeah yeah.
And then if you're able to pullout some details, like it seems
like there's some issues with,like, maybe, communication and
priorities, and then they go, ohyeah, that's totally like the
root of our issue and stuff,then you can be like, well, it
looks like that's, you know,like that might be a prevailing
(37:45):
theme throughout the entirety ofthe relationship.
Because, like you were saying,you know, but if somebody's
about to drive off a cliff andyou get a chance to talk to them
beforehand, you're gonna saylike hey, you should probably
stop the car, because it wouldbe unethical not to tell them
(38:09):
that If they're speeding towardsa cliff and they can't see
where they're going, they don'trealize where things are headed,
but you can see it clearly.
It would be.
You know, in that situation itmight be unethical not to give
them a warning about what ishappening, and because we can
(38:31):
all get really caught up in.
You know, love makes you dostupid things sometimes and
you've got your blinders on androsy colored glasses, so, like
sure, there's red flags.
All the flags are red.
What's the issue?
Sunny (38:48):
Well, and see, here's the thing it's like.
You know, by putting it interms of are you sure you want
to?
I think you might want to lookat this again.
You know those kinds of thatkind of language.
(39:09):
It keeps the power where itbelongs, which is with the
client.
They are the ultimate arbiterof their own position.
If they do marry that person,they are the ones dealing with
that situation, not me, right?
(39:31):
So I don't.
You know, I very much talkabout your choices, you know,
and the way that things, the waythat things seem to be looking,
but you know, here's this, andyou still have a choice around
(39:51):
that you know not.
Oh, this, you know you'redestined for, you're destined
for a terrible relationship.
Well then, okay, if I'mdestined for a terrible
relationship, you might as wellstay here then.
Thanks.
Bootes (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I know, thank you.
Sunny (40:13):
Yeah, exactly so.
You know it might be.
It's like this, is looking likethis now, but you know we
always retain the power ofchoice.
So that's the way that Ipresent almost everything,
(40:34):
negative and positive.
It's the power of choice.
This is what it looks like, andthen we add the missing
ingredient, which is what youdecide to do.
Bootes (40:53):
Right your choice.
That's something that in a lotof the older astrological texts
I've been checking out, is thata lot of them you know it's in
Abrahamic faiths is where a lotof this comes from, and so
they're talking about.
You know you can only read asfar as God will let you, and you
(41:18):
know that these things that youcan foresee or the answers that
you get out of a horrorquestion, all of it is still
entirely dependent on the willof the one, or of God or of the
universe of the higher level ofintelligence that you can get
(41:39):
all the astrological readingsthat you want, but ultimately
we're you know, the stars aren'tthe ones calling the shots.
They're just telling the storyof what's going to happen and
ultimately, the author, or theauthors can they can change
(42:00):
things.
I kind of trailed off andforgot where I was going with
that.
Yeah, all right.
Well, on the subject of ethicsin astrology, do you feel like
(42:21):
we've done a good job ontouching on everything you had
thought of?
Sunny (42:26):
The only thing that I don't think that we did talk
about was children.
Bootes (42:34):
Yeah.
So why won't you read a chartand tell an eight year old about
their future?
Sunny (42:43):
Well, I mean, it goes back even farther than that.
You know, it's very common forparents who have just given
birth to a child even to say wesee, you know what's what's
going to happen.
You know, and there is.
(43:04):
I mean I will talk to parentsabout their child's moon sign.
Bootes (43:12):
Okay.
Sunny (43:13):
The moon sign.
It talks very much about theiremotional development, you know,
and what kind of just you know,just kind of the quality of
their, of their childhood, ortheir childness, or you know,
it's like the moon is the first,the first foray into
(43:36):
development, into, you know, ofemotions.
Okay, so, yeah, so I will say,you know, okay, so your child
has an Aries moon, so why, golly, you're trying to get them to
sit down and it's going to behard.
Let them run around, you know.
Or your child has a Pisces moon, and so they're, you know
(43:58):
they're going to be just prettychill all the time and you know,
but that's a helpful thing toparents, okay.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Right.
Sunny (44:08):
And I pretty much go no farther until you know like mid
teen years, and then I'm eveneven then I'm still just talking
about the evening sun sign,your, your Mercury, venus, moon,
mars, pretty much stick in thatin that territory.
(44:31):
The overarching reason for nottelling, not meeting a child's
full chart is because it becomesprescriptive.
You know it's like okay.
So, for example, I have thispersonal thing with Mars being
(44:58):
cancer.
Okay, I'm like to to my.
From my experience, people withMars and cancer are terrifying.
Okay, they'll lose it, you know, and so so.
So let's say you have a childand I say to you oh, your child
(45:20):
has Mars and cancer.
Oh, my God, they're going tohave the worst temper.
They're just going to screamand run and you know mayhem and
you know yeah.
Okay, Well, you know that's truesometimes of a Mars and cancer
(45:42):
child, but it's not true all thetime.
But if I've already told youthat your child is going to be
an emotional tempest, that'swhat you're going to, that's
what you're going to help them,Help them live Right, Because
you expect it.
And so, by you expecting it,you project it onto that child.
(46:05):
Okay, and so we have a childwho really embodies way more
than they might otherwise, Okay,or maybe I see a divorce, Okay,
and I tell you well, you know,it looks like your, your, your
child's going to deal withdivorced parents, what we're not
(46:29):
divorced.
When are we going to getdivorced?
Right, it becomes okay.
Well, obviously, we're going toget divorced.
That astrologer said right, soit's, you know, it's all these
kind of things where it's likethere's.
So this is back to the power ofastrology and that people you
(46:51):
know are they.
They give you a lot of power toyou know, say what is true and
what is not true about theirlives and you can set a child up
for I mean, you can set them upfor marvelous things, or you
can set them up for chaos, butit's, it's not.
(47:11):
None of it is is good.
Bootes (47:14):
Yeah.
Sunny (47:16):
And you know.
Let the child embody their ownchart and let them figure out
whether they want a reading whenit's time for them, when
they're old enough to consent.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Right.
Bootes (47:30):
Okay, thank you for that .
Yeah, that's really interesting.
Thanks for watching.
You know you're gonna if youhave any level of understanding
about astrology and you'relooking at your own kids' chart,
you're gonna be able todelineate some stuff yourself.
(47:53):
But it's gonna be a little bitmore informed by what you want
for your kid and what you'rehoping for them.
But if somebody else comes inand tells you and you know
people tend to like we kind ofput on, not in a negative way,
but we kind of put on ourimpressionable hat when we're
(48:16):
going in for a reading becausewe are asking somebody else
about what you know the cosmossays about such and such a
subject.
So, you're going in there andasking about your kid.
Just like you said, if you, ifyou go and tell them that, oh,
your kid's gonna be a nightmarethe first time that something
(48:41):
difficult comes up with the kid.
They're gonna be like oh my God, it's just like the astrologer
woman said they were right.
Sunny (48:48):
Yeah, they're right.
Bootes (48:50):
And you know, you might not ever expect any better from
your kid because, like Iactually have a friend who has
that placement that we werediscussing Mars and cancer, and
there are places in there areprobably places in my life where
(49:11):
you could look at me and say,oh, he definitely has Mars and
cancer, because he's actuallylike that, because we can embody
so many different things, thedifferent periods in our life.
But there are probably alsoreally, you know, like I said,
it's my friend, this is one ofmy like top three favorite
people in the world and I wouldnot take their Mars out of
(49:35):
cancer, even if it has, you know, represented some difficulties
that they've dealt with in life.
But you know, it's also part ofthe essence of the beauty of
this person that just becauseemotions can be difficult
doesn't mean that they're notworth half.
And you can.
(49:57):
You can nurture and feed acrabby Mars, or you can, you
know, just say, ah, that's awful, I don't want to deal with any
of it and be totally dismissiveand rejecting of the.
Yet, for however difficult itis for you, it's way more
difficult for your kid, you know, and you know and so you know,
(50:22):
like here's the thing with theMars and cancer bit.
Sunny (50:25):
So I in my own chart have son and mercury in cancer and
then one of the notes.
But so my theory, and you knowI have, I have two specific
people who embody for me theMars and cancer trope.
(50:47):
Okay, but if I were to look attheir Mars and the degree of
their Mars and whether they'relike they're probably right
there on my son, right, yeah,which would very much
personalize that experience ofMars and cancer.
(51:09):
And but as an astrologer, thenI get to take if I'm not aware
of what I'm doing, I get to takethat Mars and cancer trope that
I've, you know, my own personalargument with Mars and cancer
and projected out onto otherpeople.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Right.
Sunny (51:32):
You know.
So a reason for not just ethicsbut also, you know, working
through your own stuff beforeyou take on the job of reading
people's charts.
Bootes (51:49):
Yeah.
Sunny (51:50):
Which is another one.
Bootes (51:52):
There might also be.
You know, just because, justbecause you or I as an
astrologian has come acrosspeople who have embodied the
difficulty of X planet in Y sign, it doesn't mean that there
aren't a million people outthere who have that same
(52:13):
placement but have neverexperienced any of those
problems because there's there'snot at a minimum of nine other
things going on in their chart.
You know they have a differentascended.
Somebody with a with a Torah'sascended and Mars and cancer
might embody that totallydifferent than somebody with a
(52:34):
Aquarius ascended and Mars andcancer, because it's providing
different aspects.
It's a totally different notethat's being played, or cord
that's being played depending onwhat else is going on in the
chart.
So you can't just say and we'repicking on Mars and cancer is a
lot, I'm sorry if anybody hasthat they're saying that
(52:58):
somebody without placement isgoing to be X because you are
not that placement.
They are not that placement area reflection of the entire
chart and everything that'sgoing on inside of that, in
addition to the charts of thepeople who raised them and the
charts of the people thatthey've been, the charts of the,
(53:19):
the chart of the country thatthey live in.
You know there's so much elsegoing on that no one no even I
could spend my entire lifeseeing people with Venus and
Aquarius be one way and neversee the entirety of what a Venus
and Aquarius can look like.
Sunny (53:40):
Right, well, and I mean, yeah, this goes back to the the
whole Sun sign debate.
You know that we've talkedabout before.
It's like you know, no, youknow Mars, venus, any, any, any
planet, any placement.
It's not destiny, it just is adata point.
(54:05):
It's a part of what you, ofwhat you are, yeah, yeah, and I
deeply apologize Mars and cancerpeople.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Thanks so much for being here with us today To keep
getting more astrology withsunny and boots.
Like and subscribe.
Bootes (54:26):
To talk with Sunny in an astrological consultation.
Visit sunniesastrologycom toschedule an appointment To reach
Sunny and boots about the show.
Email us atcontactatastrologyafpodcastcom.
Links in the description.
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