May 3, 2025 • 33 mins
Eric Flow is building a dealership legacy rooted in promises, not just profits—and his take on vendor partnerships and culture is anything but ordinary.
Eric Flow of Flow Automotive joins the crew for a conversation that reaches deep into the DNA of one of the most intentional dealer groups in the country. With roots tracing back to a post-WWII used car lot and a family legacy that includes working for Douglas MacArthur and Henry Ford II, Eric doesn’t just represent the third generation of dealers—he’s pushing the business forward with a distinct blend of care and challenge. His use of the word “covenant” isn’t marketing fluff; it’s a framework for how Flow engages both customers and employees with a sense of sacred responsibility.
The episode also dives into how Flow Automotive integrates tech like CarCutter to maintain quality merchandising across 50 rooftops. Eric explains why vendor flexibility, API access, and store-level execution matter more than just off-the-shelf functionality. He’s not chasing shiny objects—he’s looking for tools that align with their culture and empower their people. From evolving customer touchpoints to developing a scalable LMS, this conversation is a deep-dive into how values-driven leadership meets the realities of modern auto retail.
Timestamped Takeaways:
- [0:00] The gang kicks things off by reflecting on their own family histories—and sets up the challenge to learn about Eric Flow’s great grandfather.
- [4:48] Covenant over contract: Flow Automotive treats customer relationships as sacred, promise-based commitments.
- [14:32] A legacy of leadership: Eric’s grandfather served MacArthur and worked for Henry Ford II before launching a used car lot with purpose.
- [20:50] Scaling culture: As Flow grows, their learning management system is key to training and maintaining a values-first mindset.
- [22:55] People-powered tech: Eric explains how automation frees up time for human-centric service—and how the right tools make that possible.
- [23:37] CarCutter in action: A look at why Flow chose CarCutter for consistent, enterprise-wide vehicle merchandising—and how ease of use for store teams sealed the deal.
- [28:28] Autonomy with alignment: Eric unpacks the balance between giving store leaders ownership while maintaining brand and cultural cohesion.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul J Daly (00:00):
Does anyone know what their grandfather did for a
Unknown (00:08):
living? This is Auto Collabs. How
Paul J Daly (00:10):
about your great grandfather? Actually, I'm gonna
go there. Yes,
Kyle Mountsier (00:13):
my grandfather, yes. What did he do? My
grandfather was primarily with Pand G so if you don't, they make
like, half the world's like,disposable goods for your
family, goods, package goods andstuff. He spent years and years
with them, doing what,everything. I mean, he was a an
(00:37):
engineer, so he worked acrossthe organization on a ton of
different P and
Paul J Daly (00:41):
G projects, and your great grandfather.
Kyle Mountsier (00:45):
So my great grandfather was, there's, like,
stories about, like, a lot ofpeople in my family, on the on
that side, and they all getmixed up, but more of my the
stories are my uncle, my uncles,like, one of my uncles, worked
on the candy coating of theEminem, which is kind of crazy,
(01:09):
yeah? My great uncles, my greator my great, yeah, my great
uncles. So, yeah, that's like,that's all, all I know about my
kind
Paul J Daly (01:15):
of legendary but it also reminds me of, have you
ever seen National Lampoon'sChristmas Vacation? Chevy
Chase's character? He talkedabout the crunch in hand? Crunch
enhancer. Oh yeah, it's a nonnutritive cereal varnish that,
you know what I mean. How aboutCirillo
Michael Cirillo (01:28):
guys? My head kind of hurt. Well, first of
all, my grandfather was heworked for a utility company
when he immigrated to Canada.
Before that, he was a farmer anda soldier in Italy. My father
fought in World War Two, or mygrandfather fought in World War
Two for the whole duration ofthat war. What for Italy? Yeah,
so we know how that started andhow it ended, right? Yeah, in
(01:53):
this my other grandfather. Butthis is why my brain started
hurting, because I'm like, waita minute. I got two
grandfathers, but then I gotfour great grand fathers. Oh,
yeah, that's right. And then Igot eight great, great
grandfathers. And I'm like,Well, now I don't know what I'm
doing, right, but my the ones Ido know about, so let's see my
(02:14):
other grandfather. My mom's dadwas military police and a police
officer in Portugal. Of course,they were in control during the
war. And then his dad, I don'tknow, but my other grandfather,
great grandfather, was a tailor.
He made suits.
Kyle Mountsier (02:31):
Well, here's, here's what, what I know. This
is the only thing I know aboutgrand great grandfathers. And
grandfathers is Paul, and I knowsomething about a great
grandfather in this story, andwe're talking to Eric flow
today, and our challenge to youis to get the answer to the
question about a greatgrandfather. So if you So,
(02:54):
accept it. We hope thateverybody enjoys this
conversation with Eric flow,
Paul J Daly (03:03):
Eric, thank you so much for joining us. It's great
to have you for the first timeon Auto Collabs. Thank you,
Paul,
Eric Flow (03:09):
excited to be here, really excited to get to know
you guys better and appreciateyou having me. So
Paul J Daly (03:17):
I have to say, there are organizations around
the country that you look at,and you kind of know right out
of the gate that they approachthe people side of the business
with a different level ofintentionality, and your group
is definitely one of them. Canyou just tell us, like, what you
focus on as your center pointfor your culture?
Eric Flow (03:38):
Yeah, so I think you know for us, both the focus on
intentionality around thecustomer and the employee,
because they're hand in hand.
One doesn't happen without theother has been part of who we've
been since the very, verybeginning. So if you go back to
organization, to the late 50s,you know we started, my
grandfather started ourbusiness, and it was a used car
(04:01):
lot, and he only sold fullyreconditioned cars, and every
car came with a warranty, whichin the 50s was unheard
Paul J Daly (04:14):
fourth generation dealer already, but yeah,
Eric Flow (04:16):
so like, wow, this that level of intentionality
around how we're going to treatpeople, both externally and
internally, has been a part ofwho we've been for forever. And
you know, we've really fosteredthat culture. My father has
driven that, and I have as well.
But, you know, it's reallysomething that we talk about
from the very beginning, is howwe want to treat ourselves. We
talk about having a covenantwith relationship with our
(04:37):
customers. We want to treatcustomers we can guess in our
home, and we want to treat ourindividuals as,
Unknown (04:43):
as did you say, a covenant relationship with your
Yeah, so
Eric Flow (04:48):
if you read our website, we sort of have our
three C's, which talks aboutcovenant community and
commitment, and that's reallyhow we think about that
relationship with our customerand inside of our inside of our
com. Team with our employees.
It's a very similar way, right?
And so, you know, we think aboutgrowing them as whole people. We
want to provide opportunities.
We think about Teach, coach,counsel, discipline, then
(05:10):
terminate. We think aboutresponsibility, accountability
and authority, all being sort ofinexorably linked together to
help people understand how togrow and what their role is and
when it's right to holdaccountable and when it's not.
And do you have authority? Areyou responsible in that
(05:31):
situation? And then we, youknow, we really think about
trying to provide, you know,we're very cognizant of the fact
like so if you look at all thedata from sociologists, right?
You look at the amount of timepeople used to spend in social
organizations that weren't work,whether it's church or VFA or
the Italian American club orwhatever, those social
(05:52):
organizations that underpinAmerican society have really
eroded over since post World WarTwo, right? And so you've got
family, and you've got work, andthat a lot of people spend more
time at work than they do atfamily. And so if, if, if you
have employees that are onlyshowing up for a paycheck, it's
not going to be a healthy place.
They're not going to want togrow and thrive and prosper
(06:14):
there. And it's not therelationship we want to have,
it's not the company we want tohave, right? Even if it worked
economically, which I don'tthink it does, you know, things
can be both the right economicdecision and the right moral
decision. And so, you know,we're really conscious of the
fact that we want to be a placethat people can go home, that
they can grow with us, and theycan be a part of our community.
Unknown (06:35):
I just, I looked up while you were talking. I was
like, I gotta know, because I,you know, I use, we use this
vernacular in our in our world,the covenant vernacular and the
the trigger word betweencovenant and contract, which can
sometimes inappropriately beinterchanged, right? A contract
is a legal agreement. It is tickfor tack, right? I do this. You
(07:00):
do that if then statementsright? And that's what typically
like, if a customer buyssomething from you, they enter
into a contract. If an employeeworks for you, they enter into
an employment contract. The keyword, and I found it in five
different resources, the keyword about a covenant is a
promise. Yeah, it's a one waycommitment.
Eric Flow (07:22):
Yes, actually, yeah, very much. So, you know, we we
look at making a commitment toour customers, that we're going
to keep our promises, and we canbe full of trust now. We're a
human run organization. We makemistakes every day, right? But,
you know, I found out early inmy career, it's not about if you
ever make a mistake, it's abouthow you handle that mistake, and
(07:45):
if you try to make up for it andyou try to do the right thing.
And I've had plenty. I mean, Ihad a situation. I was a young
service manager inCharlottesville, Virginia. It
was a Porsche Audi, VolkswagenMazda location. You know, we had
this customer with a 964 911 oilleak. We fixed it for them, and
we didn't fix it for them. And,you know, two, it took me two
(08:07):
and a half years and 50 grand toresolve, but we got it resolved,
right? And they be we spend moremoney on this car than this car
was worth, by far, but we turnedthe customer to a huge advocate
for us, right? And, you know, wereally want to focus our people
on empowering our people tomake, to make those good
(08:27):
decisions.
Unknown (08:28):
And okay, so I want to know the dirty part of it,
because you grew up in anautomotive family, like there's
no way it was all sunshine androses when you were growing up,
and grandpa and dad are in thecar business. And when was the
time where you turned over andwe're like, Fine, I'll be in the
car business. Or were you like,true from from birth? That
Eric Flow (08:49):
is a really good question. So I would say this,
nobody in my family ever saidyou have to be in the car
business. This is what you'redoing. Ever it was always
something I really, reallywanted to do. It really was,
and, you know, it was somethingI grew up in, you know, I was,
we're in North Carolina,headquartered in Winston, Salem
(09:10):
right. So it would snow two orthree times a year, like two
inches, you know. And I wasgoing with my dad to knock snow
off cars, you know, in middleschool, I was going to help wash
cars in the summer time, and Iwanted to learn to change oil
and rotate tires in high schooland paint, paint fenders and
things. And I liked going. I Mydad would take me these
manufacturer meetings, which, bythe way, manufacturer meetings
(09:32):
in the 90s were fantastic.
Global Financial pre globalfinancial crisis, were a ton of
fun. And,
Paul J Daly (09:41):
you know, okay, tell us about those.
Eric Flow (09:44):
But I always, I always really enjoyed it, and I
knew that's what I wanted to do.
And I've done some other thingsthat were, I would say, non
career oriented jobs, you know,and some internships that were
more career oriented, betweengrad school and college and
stuff like that. But I reallyalways enjoyed. It. You know,
coming out of grad school, therewas a time in grad school where
I was sitting there thinking, doI want to go straight back in?
(10:04):
Do I want to do something else?
And have I really committed tothis? Or was it just something
that was, was it a consciousdecision in it? Like I said, No
one in my family ever pressuredme. So it wasn't that at all. It
was a I had, I took a step backto say to myself, have I made
that conscious decision? BecauseI'm committing to you know, when
(10:27):
you're working your familybusiness, you don't leave after
five years, very often, becauseyou don't like it, right?
Because that's so I wanted tosay, Listen, I'm coming on to
grad school. I've worked in ourcompany post college four years,
non stop. Really liked it,mainly all fixed operation
stuff, going back in, going tocome out, go run a store. That
(10:49):
was sort of the plan. You know,is this what I really want to
do? And I need to make thatconscious decision for myself,
to say actively Yes, notpassively Yes. Because even if
people aren't putting thatpressure on you, and they
weren't. I want to be clearabout that in my family, it was
something that I had just alwaysassumed I wanted to do and
enjoyed, and so I took that timeto really say, Yes, this is what
(11:11):
I want to do. And there's a lotof reasons for that. I mean, I'm
grateful to our company. It'sprovided me with incredible
opportunities in life. You know,I think we have a lot of
responsibility to our teammembers and our communities who
were in but that alone, all ofthose things are really true,
that alone isn't a reason to dosomething, right? There's a lot
of you know, you I love ourbusiness. I love the customers,
(11:34):
I love the employees. I alsolove the challenge every day of
getting to use every part of mybrain, right? You know? Yeah,
undergrads and my undergrads inbusiness and marketing and
Spanish, my graduate degree Ihave, you know, MBA from
Northwestern, and my majors werelike, quantitative finance,
Decision Sciences andquantitative marketing. Okay,
(11:56):
you know what I do? I have a lotof friends that have great
careers, but they're pigeonholed into, like, a really,
Paul J Daly (12:05):
really quantitative finance
Eric Flow (12:08):
right? Where it's like, this is what I do every
day in our business. Hey, you'reworking on comp plans, you know,
a recruiting structure. You'reworking on marketing the next
second event, website, meetingyesterday on our relaunch a
website. And this we're doingthe community piece of it. We're
working on our LM s or, youknow, training module you're
(12:31):
working on, you're with theaccounting team, trying to work
on X, Y or Z. And so you'reusing, really, I get to use
every facet of my brain on adaily and weekly basis. And I
think that's really thatdiversity is fun for me, and it
keeps it very interesting.
There's never a dull moment.
Paul J Daly (12:46):
Let me ask you, this is a pressing question. I'm
going to let Michael talk everysometime before we're done, you
mentioned, you know, turningwrenches, oil changes, painting
fenders. What is your by far,like? Give me the front runner,
what is the best smell in theautomotive industry?
Eric Flow (13:03):
The best smell? Yeah, um, this is a
Unknown (13:08):
selfish question. I was like new car smell.
Eric Flow (13:12):
I like new car smell.
I will say this when we, when Iwas younger, we were paying
cars, you know, we use a lot ofbrake cleaner. Brake cleaner is
great, and it's great. It's sobad for you.
Unknown (13:22):
Oh, yeah, well, I'm
Paul J Daly (13:24):
saying like, like, there's, there's, like, new
tires, there's great cleaner,there's detailing chemicals,
there's, you know, like, reducerthere's all kinds of things that
just are Bondo. Bondo, yes, youjust, there's a lot of young by
the way, but, yeah,
Eric Flow (13:39):
yeah, there's a lot of really unique smells. And you
know, I'm glad to say ourindustry, from a safety
perspective, has continued toimprove and improve. But boy,
you walk through some shops, andI'm not implicating any of ours,
but you walk through some shopsand you see people, you're like,
oh, boy, those gloves back on.
Do you need to eat
Paul J Daly (13:58):
the sandwich right now? Hands in the reducer to
clean.
Eric Flow (14:02):
Oh, I used to clean my hands with brake cleaner. You
know, that's what everybody toldme to do.
Unknown (14:08):
Oh, no, sorry, I didn't pass
the statute of limitations onthat. But
Michael Cirillo (14:13):
how does, how does all of the so I mean this,
I'm just the boys will tell you,I take notes. I'm sitting here.
I'm just so enthralled withthis. I'm kind of curious about
the DNA of the organizationwhere this all started. Right?
So your third or fourth gen?
Eric Flow (14:32):
So our company was started by my grandfather, okay,
third generation. My greatgrandfather was a Chevrolet
dealer back before thedepression, got out of the
business. During the Depression,did some real estate
development, did a number ofother things. My grandfather was
in the army at the end of WorldWar Two, so he 96 now. So he
(14:55):
pretty young for thatgeneration. Still with us, doing
great. And he was. Stationed inJapan at General Headquarters
with Douglas MacArthur. He wasactually Douglas MacArthur's
courier and aide for three, fouryears in Japan at General
Headquarters, comes back toAmerica, goes to Wake Forest.
(15:15):
Wants to get in the automobilebusiness, gets a job as Henry
Ford the second privatesecretary, assistant, what leads
to the other one? Yes, it was avery close network in America
that point in time, right? Yeah,moves to Detroit. Is there for a
little while. From the south,it's cold, it's snowy. There's
(15:38):
no EPA. The snow is like black,right there for a year and a
half or something, says, I wantto move back. Becomes a partner
in a Ford store in elk in NorthCarolina. And my grandmother
grew up. Her family was fromArkansas, but she grew up
outside of Chicago and outsideof New York, and then moved to
Winston Salem because her grandher dad, worked for Bell South,
(15:58):
which was had a regionalheadquarter in Winston Salem, so
she's in elk in North Carolina,which is a small little town.
She has my dad. She's pregnantwith my uncle, and sort of like,
hey, I need to move to a biggertown. Can we move to a bigger
town? So they moved to WinstonSalem, where he opened the used
(16:19):
car lot before we had any newcar franchises, because he sold
out of his partnership in Elkin.
And actually my grandfather,when he was opening his first
store in Winston, got my greatgrandfather, his dad, who had
retired and had been a dealerway back, to come be a service
manager for him when he openedhis store. Like, Hey, Dad, can
you come help me out?
Michael Cirillo (16:41):
So what? What I mean, this is actually really
interesting to me as I as Ithink about this, you know,
experience in war, Henry Ford,Secretary, you know, Detroit,
all these moves. And I thinkabout at, at what point, see,
I'm so intrigued by this, I wantto ask the question, right?
(17:01):
Because when you talk aboutcovenant community, customer,
you know the intentionalitybehind all of those things? Who?
Who's responsible?
Eric Flow (17:12):
Yeah, so I would say, you know, my grandfather started
with that culture, sort of interms of what I mentioned about
used cars and etc. And then mydad really, really grew that
culture in a super intentionalway. So my father went to
University of Virginia as well.
I went there. My wife wentthere. My mom went there, my
sisters went there. So it's sortof a whole family thing. And
post UVA, before he started withmy grandfather's business, my
(17:37):
dad's very faithful individual.
Went to a college in Vancouver,British company called Regent
college, and he was reallystruggling about how to live out
his faith in business at thesame time. And can you be a
faith oriented business? Can yoube a faithful person? Can you be
a person who focuses on doinggood in the world and in your
community through your business?
Or do I need to go into ministryto really live that creed, and
(18:00):
really because he likedbusiness, and it was no I can, I
can have a company and grow acompany, have a vision for a
company in a way that serves amission as well for individuals
and for our community. And so Iwould say my my father, is
really responsible for drivingthe orientation, or formalizing
that orientation, growing thatorientation, and really driving
it in that direction. And he'svery thoughtful about those
(18:21):
things, and they're at the coreand underpinning of everything
we do. You know, we've turneddown lots of opportunities
because they didn't fit the waywho we are and how we want to
live. And we've made lots ofbusiness decisions that, you
know, some people would arguewhat the right decision for the
short run, but we would arguethe right decision for the right
(18:41):
decision for the long run. Andas I said the beginning, you can
do the right thing because ofwho you are and how you want to
live and do the right thingbecause it's the right economic
decision. I think most of ourdecisions that we make, and we
would make them either way if itwas the right thing to do, but I
think they're all really servedboth purposes. I think people
want to do business and want towork for an organization that is
(19:02):
mission aligned with, you know,in that manner, yeah. And
Kyle Mountsier (19:08):
I think actually, this is a, it's a
question that we come up a loton, because we, like our focus
is a lot around the people sideof the business thriving people
provide thriving profits. Butthe question is always like, how
do you turn that in? Because,you know, we've been on this
podcast for, I don't know, 15,1617, minutes, something like
that. And a lot of people couldbe like, Oh, nap, nap pods and
(19:29):
ping pong tables never sell youa single car, right? But you
don't, oh.
Eric Flow (19:33):
So we talk about, you have to be high care and high
challenge and we're very highchallenge organization, right?
And we like to say, What's in ahigh challenge organization
without care is a meat grinder.
You get a certain sort ofpsychological profile that likes
that they're not generally greatwith employees and customers and
everybody else churns and leaveson time. High care only is a
(19:54):
therapy session, right? So youhave to have both. It has to be
high. High, high challenge andhigh care. You know, I think a
lot, my father played footballin college, and I played
football for a long time. Ithink a lot of us that sports
mentality of, we got to get thisfirst down, we got to hit this
three, you know, this freethrow, we got to do whatever.
And we can go do it guys, andwe're doing this together as a
(20:15):
team, right? And it's, it's bothof those things together.
Kyle Mountsier (20:20):
So, but how do you transition? Because you all
have been like, leading edge,right, bespoke website,
platform, like investor inmultiple tech companies. In the
auto industry, you've grown to50 rooftops. What are you doing
right now that is challenging,kind of the status quo of like
(20:41):
moving consumers into covenantclients, right? Yeah. So we're,
Eric Flow (20:50):
you know, we're really focused on trying to make
we're focused on two thingssimultaneously. One is employee
training, learning and buildingout our LMS and dealing with the
issues of scale, right? Becauseit used to be a lot easier.
Well, let's get all the salesmanagers together and we're
going to work on this, and we'lldo this once a week for the next
four weeks, and oh my gosh,that's a lot of people coming
(21:13):
from several hours away, andthey're not in the store and
they're not with their families.
That's tough, right? And sowe're working on how to use
technology to really help uscontinually train and reinforce
our culture and sort of thosebusiness processes. And then
we're also really focused onhelping our customers do
business with us more easily, atleast the let's call it the 8020
where we want customers who wantto do something that's pretty
(21:36):
simple with us, whether it'sservice or sales, be able to do
that in a way that's easier thaneverybody around us, and then in
so doing, we want to freeourselves up to have more time
with more humans to handle thosemore challenging cases. Right?
So, you know, hey, listen,there's no reason that I need a
(21:57):
human to tell you the value of afive year old Toyota Camry with
50,000 miles in a clean Carfax.
If I can't do that, something isreally wrong in 2025 right now,
a, you know, two year old,$90,000 car with a CARFAX minor
(22:21):
incident and a this and that. Ithink I want to look at that car
and figure out what's actuallygoing on. That's right. Same
thing with Hey, you got to, youknow, pretty easy, cash deal,
buyer, etc. I should be able tomake that a really easy with a
customer, hey, credit challenge,multiple co signers, multiple
trade in vehicles, negativeequity, whatever it is, okay,
(22:43):
that's where humans shine. Weget to go solve that problem for
that customer. And so we'rereally focused on, kind of
trying to create multiplepathways for our customers to
engage with us in the way thatmakes sense for their for their
scenario.
Paul J Daly (22:56):
You know, I think one of the one of the primary
ways that we get an at batanyway. Is is on the website,
and we know that. And you knowthe intentionality behind what
we say to customers on ourwebsite, about ourselves, how
the vehicle looks in photos,right? All, all of those things
make a massive difference, and Ithink they say something about
(23:18):
who we are, and the partnershipsthat we have with tech
companies, dealers have withtech companies, and the
willingness to like help youaccomplish your goals in that,
what do you look for in anindustry partner when it comes
to, you know, for instance, yourwebsite, or making things easy
for the customer to see what youhave?
Eric Flow (23:38):
Yeah, so, you know, vendor selection is a is really
important for us. And you know,from a merchandising
perspective, we're not sellinganything if it's not
merchandise. Well, I can tellyou that from our experience
with CDK last year, and it's noshady and CDK, I think they're a
great organization who had a lotof more security than any of us
(24:00):
will ever have. And you know,they had this unfortunate
experience. But I can tell you,if things aren't on the website
to sell, you're not going tosell them in today's world,
right? Pull it behind the bar.
Really important. And so, youknow, we have to have vendors
who can help us have ourvehicles online. Now, a lot of
what we do is look for vendorsthat can fit within our
ecosystem, because we have sortof a different tech stack and
(24:20):
ecosystem than a lot of otherecosystem than a lot of other
dealers. You know, we have ourown DBM digital vehicle
inventory management system thatwe built back before those
existed, and we continue to useand we've just gone through some
changes with it and tried someother things and gone back to
it, because it's how we pricevehicles, syndicate pictures,
syndicate descriptions. It'swhere we bring in external data
to help us price those vehiclesand create those descriptions
(24:42):
the right way. And so when itcomes to partners, we're looking
for partners that can do acouple of things for us. One, we
want those partners to beproviding a product that we
wouldn't build ourselves becauseit scales over plenty of
clients, so they have enoughmoney for R and D in that
product, right? So. So we'realso looking for partners that
are willing to have the off theshelf product, and they're also
(25:04):
willing to sell us a lot of thedata information behind their
product through APIs. So if wewant to take that information
and stick it in an internalproduct that we have, we can do
that as well, because I thinkthis industry needs and if you
look at the structure of thisindustry, you know, called
18,000 car dealers, or 18,000franchises in a new car
franchise in America. 93 and ahalf percent of them are owned
(25:27):
by holding company that ownsbetween one and three stores. So
the vast majority of them areowned by smaller dealer groups.
They need off the shelfproducts, right? And there's
times we need off the shelfproducts, but you also, we have
different needs sometimes wherewe say, this is really cool. We
don't want your whole product.
We already have the solution,and it works better for us, but
we want the data behind thatproduct, and we want an API to
(25:50):
it, and we're going to take thatinformation and go stick it in
this thing over here, right? Andthen we need sort of reliability
in that. I mean, you guys arefriends with one of our mutual
friends with car cutter, andthey've been a great solution
for us, right? It's superflexible fit within our dB. I am
great way for us to, you know,be able to have high quality
(26:11):
pictures. It also, oh, I'll saythis, any vendor that we have
that involves store operationalpeople doing something has to be
easily execute, executable andeasily trainable, right? And
they've done a great job withthat for us, you know, we've had
photo booths at different storesbefore. And again, I'm not
throwing any shade at those. Ifyou have a huge complex with a
(26:32):
bunch of brands, it could makesense for you to have that photo
booth for us. You know, we havethese clusters in different
cities, decentralized,
Kyle Mountsier (26:39):
different people, taking different things.
Yeah, are we going to drive cars
Eric Flow (26:43):
over here and then, if you Well, I have it in this
location, but not this. So, youknow, if you have a centralized
website, some of your pictureslook great, some of them don't.
We were really looking for thatsolution that we could roll out
enterprise wide and come up witha really homogenous way for
customers to see our cars sothey go, Okay, you have, you
know, three Honda stores in 100miles, and all of those pictures
(27:05):
look really good, and they alllook the same. I think that's
and it's easily achievable.
Paul J Daly (27:09):
I think that's a growing challenge in the
industry. As groups, smallgroups turned into mid sized
groups, and mid sized groupsturned into large groups. And
single point stores, probablythe biggest challenge is single
point store is turning to multipoint because until you have to
make that first jump of beingsomewhere else, you know,
especially the push toconsolidate used car inventory,
that that really is one of thethings. And there's nothing
(27:31):
worse, in my opinion, when yougo on a site and you're shopping
a used car inventory and youjust, it's the same company,
right? Like you expect it whenyou're in a third party. You
expect it when you're cars.comor not a trader or, you know,
but you don't expect it whenyou're on a captive deal or used
car site. And it's, it's,actually can be very confusing.
So we've,
Eric Flow (27:53):
you know, that's so we, we really want to come to
market as a consolidated Companyin the same way everywhere, not
just in those brand values Italked about the beginning, but
also in practical things to howour customers experience us,
right? And so there's thisstruggle there, right? Because
we have these individual storeswith individual general managers
and individual leadership teams,and we call them a general
(28:14):
manager, but these, some ofthese stores, are big, right? If
it was another industry, we'dcall them a CEO, you know, hey,
I got 165 employees, and I'mdoing this sort of revenue. And
I'm doing this sort
Unknown (28:25):
of revenue. Absolutely, that's bigger than
Eric Flow (28:28):
Yeah. So we want an entrepreneur spirit there, and
we want agency, yet we want itdone a certain way, because
we're flow. We want to come tomarket as flow. So there's this
tension there, and this thinrope and the thin line that we
walk, because we don't ever wantto turn into the big box
conglomerate, where the peoplewho are at the stores go, Well,
I don't know. I don't have anycontrol over that, so I don't
(28:50):
care. You know, corporate toldme what to do on it. That's
terrible, right? And if we andif you end up in that place, I
promise you, you're not going tobe an excellent sales
organization, right? Becausesales organizations are
inherently high agency peoplewho care about what's in front
of them and want to make adifference every day. So you're
sort of, you know, what we try,we have a lot of processes that
we create and centralized way todo things. And then we come up
(29:13):
with sort of these guidelinesand boundaries where we go.
Here's where you're operating inwithin here, and you get to pick
some differences around there.
And also, you know, there's youcan request exceptions for
different things, and we, maybewe have a centralized pricing
team or a centralized that team,and those individuals can allow
those exceptions or thoseguidelines for those exceptions,
right?
Michael Cirillo (29:34):
I, I don't want to close it down with a dad
joke, but I can't help butnotice how well the flow from
intention and covenants andorganization and DNA right
through to intention andcovenant, oh yeah, all the way
around
Paul J Daly (29:51):
to to, like, how you it was like this cutter
Michael Cirillo (29:54):
and other vendor partners and all of these
sorts of things, I think is, istremendous. And I mean this,
this is. Why we do this show.
It's to sit down withindividuals like you who are in
it every day, who are thinkingthrough this at a different
level, to differentiate, to toyou know, highlight what's
available to all, but only thewillingness of a few. And so
(30:14):
Eric man, this has been soenlightening. We want to express
our appreciation for you joiningus on Auto Collabs today.
Eric Flow (30:22):
Well, thank you guys for having me. It's truly nice
to get to know you guys. I lookforward to doing something
together, and I hope you'll makeit to Baltimore at some point in
time and to hang out with youguys at the southern con. So
thank you.
Michael Cirillo (30:40):
Is my math, right? Do I have
Paul J Daly (30:41):
eight Grace still on this? After that whole
conversation, I'm like, I mean,I know you. I know you were
there. You did ask
Kyle Mountsier (30:50):
me an equal question. It was so I'm so proud
of you, first of all, forgetting that answer out. You
nailed it, and you made it sosneaky, too, like it wasn't even
on purpose. It was unbelievable.
Okay,
Michael Cirillo (31:02):
but can we just, let's not gloss over the
fact, and we didn't while wetalked to him. But you ever
heard a dealer use the wordCOVID covenant before
Kyle Mountsier (31:09):
blew my mind?
No, I'm like, immediately like,what does covenant mean?
Paul J Daly (31:14):
Literally, the only, the only times outside of
theological reference that thatword is used in modern culture
would be some kind of, like aland covenant, right, right,
which is like, uh, but that'sit. I mean, the covenant of
marriage, right? Marriage is acovenant relationship.
Kyle Mountsier (31:30):
Relationship, that is, I didn't say that part,
but every single source wassacred relationship. It involved
a promise like that. Is a deepway of thinking about your
people that tell
Paul J Daly (31:40):
me that's not a place you want to work or do
business I'm in.
Michael Cirillo (31:44):
Like yesterday, I was thinking about the impact
of that word and its meaning onthe customer relationship, where
for decades, it's been like,well, the customer is always
right, or no, the customer, youknow, there's always that
debate, but it's like, well,what does it mean to make a
covenant to your customers,yeah, and
Kyle Mountsier (32:02):
it's one sided, where a covenant is one sided,
Paul J Daly (32:06):
yeah, that's regardless of what you do.
Regardless do this, I promise.
Sometimes
Michael Cirillo (32:14):
that means repairing a car that's not even
worth it. Just
Paul J Daly (32:20):
exactly what that means. Yeah, you guys want to
know what my great grandfatherdid. Yeah, great grandfather, do
I only know one of them. Did hework at Chipotle? No. His name
was Joey amarosi, by the way,yeah, just like that. And it was
amarosi. Prepare to besurprised. Oh, he was a Finnish
carpenter who also played themandolin
Unknown (32:45):
in South Philly.
Michael Cirillo (32:48):
I was like, one of two ways. He either lays
tile, he's like, carpenterfinished
Unknown (32:54):
carpenter that's amazing through
Paul J Daly (32:56):
and through. Well, look, regardless of what your
great grandfather does, we hopeyou thought about it a little
bit, or maybe figured it out.
But more than that, we hope yourealize that there is some real
depth and substance within theretail auto industry that's
right. So on behalf of KyleMountsier, Michael Cirillo and
myself, thank you for joiningus, as always on Auto Collabs,
sign
Unknown (33:15):
up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free
shot of relevant news andautomotive retail media and pop
culture, you can get itnow@asotu.com That's asotu.com
if you love this podcast, pleaseleave us a review and share it
with a friend. Thanks again forlistening. We'll see you next
time you welcome to Annika. Lastrecording you.
Does anyone know what their grandfather did for a
Unknown (00:08):
living? This is Auto Collabs. How
Paul J Daly (00:10):
about your great grandfather? Actually, I'm gonna
go there. Yes,
Kyle Mountsier (00:13):
my grandfather, yes. What did he do? My
grandfather was primarily with Pand G so if you don't, they make
like, half the world's like,disposable goods for your
family, goods, package goods andstuff. He spent years and years
with them, doing what,everything. I mean, he was a an
(00:37):
engineer, so he worked acrossthe organization on a ton of
different P and
Paul J Daly (00:41):
G projects, and your great grandfather.
Kyle Mountsier (00:45):
So my great grandfather was, there's, like,
stories about, like, a lot ofpeople in my family, on the on
that side, and they all getmixed up, but more of my the
stories are my uncle, my uncles,like, one of my uncles, worked
on the candy coating of theEminem, which is kind of crazy,
(01:09):
yeah? My great uncles, my greator my great, yeah, my great
uncles. So, yeah, that's like,that's all, all I know about my
kind
Paul J Daly (01:15):
of legendary but it also reminds me of, have you
ever seen National Lampoon'sChristmas Vacation? Chevy
Chase's character? He talkedabout the crunch in hand? Crunch
enhancer. Oh yeah, it's a nonnutritive cereal varnish that,
you know what I mean. How aboutCirillo
Michael Cirillo (01:28):
guys? My head kind of hurt. Well, first of
all, my grandfather was heworked for a utility company
when he immigrated to Canada.
Before that, he was a farmer anda soldier in Italy. My father
fought in World War Two, or mygrandfather fought in World War
Two for the whole duration ofthat war. What for Italy? Yeah,
so we know how that started andhow it ended, right? Yeah, in
(01:53):
this my other grandfather. Butthis is why my brain started
hurting, because I'm like, waita minute. I got two
grandfathers, but then I gotfour great grand fathers. Oh,
yeah, that's right. And then Igot eight great, great
grandfathers. And I'm like,Well, now I don't know what I'm
doing, right, but my the ones Ido know about, so let's see my
(02:14):
other grandfather. My mom's dadwas military police and a police
officer in Portugal. Of course,they were in control during the
war. And then his dad, I don'tknow, but my other grandfather,
great grandfather, was a tailor.
He made suits.
Kyle Mountsier (02:31):
Well, here's, here's what, what I know. This
is the only thing I know aboutgrand great grandfathers. And
grandfathers is Paul, and I knowsomething about a great
grandfather in this story, andwe're talking to Eric flow
today, and our challenge to youis to get the answer to the
question about a greatgrandfather. So if you So,
(02:54):
accept it. We hope thateverybody enjoys this
conversation with Eric flow,
Paul J Daly (03:03):
Eric, thank you so much for joining us. It's great
to have you for the first timeon Auto Collabs. Thank you,
Paul,
Eric Flow (03:09):
excited to be here, really excited to get to know
you guys better and appreciateyou having me. So
Paul J Daly (03:17):
I have to say, there are organizations around
the country that you look at,and you kind of know right out
of the gate that they approachthe people side of the business
with a different level ofintentionality, and your group
is definitely one of them. Canyou just tell us, like, what you
focus on as your center pointfor your culture?
Eric Flow (03:38):
Yeah, so I think you know for us, both the focus on
intentionality around thecustomer and the employee,
because they're hand in hand.
One doesn't happen without theother has been part of who we've
been since the very, verybeginning. So if you go back to
organization, to the late 50s,you know we started, my
grandfather started ourbusiness, and it was a used car
(04:01):
lot, and he only sold fullyreconditioned cars, and every
car came with a warranty, whichin the 50s was unheard
Paul J Daly (04:14):
fourth generation dealer already, but yeah,
Eric Flow (04:16):
so like, wow, this that level of intentionality
around how we're going to treatpeople, both externally and
internally, has been a part ofwho we've been for forever. And
you know, we've really fosteredthat culture. My father has
driven that, and I have as well.
But, you know, it's reallysomething that we talk about
from the very beginning, is howwe want to treat ourselves. We
talk about having a covenantwith relationship with our
(04:37):
customers. We want to treatcustomers we can guess in our
home, and we want to treat ourindividuals as,
Unknown (04:43):
as did you say, a covenant relationship with your
Yeah, so
Eric Flow (04:48):
if you read our website, we sort of have our
three C's, which talks aboutcovenant community and
commitment, and that's reallyhow we think about that
relationship with our customerand inside of our inside of our
com. Team with our employees.
It's a very similar way, right?
And so, you know, we think aboutgrowing them as whole people. We
want to provide opportunities.
We think about Teach, coach,counsel, discipline, then
(05:10):
terminate. We think aboutresponsibility, accountability
and authority, all being sort ofinexorably linked together to
help people understand how togrow and what their role is and
when it's right to holdaccountable and when it's not.
And do you have authority? Areyou responsible in that
(05:31):
situation? And then we, youknow, we really think about
trying to provide, you know,we're very cognizant of the fact
like so if you look at all thedata from sociologists, right?
You look at the amount of timepeople used to spend in social
organizations that weren't work,whether it's church or VFA or
the Italian American club orwhatever, those social
(05:52):
organizations that underpinAmerican society have really
eroded over since post World WarTwo, right? And so you've got
family, and you've got work, andthat a lot of people spend more
time at work than they do atfamily. And so if, if, if you
have employees that are onlyshowing up for a paycheck, it's
not going to be a healthy place.
They're not going to want togrow and thrive and prosper
(06:14):
there. And it's not therelationship we want to have,
it's not the company we want tohave, right? Even if it worked
economically, which I don'tthink it does, you know, things
can be both the right economicdecision and the right moral
decision. And so, you know,we're really conscious of the
fact that we want to be a placethat people can go home, that
they can grow with us, and theycan be a part of our community.
Unknown (06:35):
I just, I looked up while you were talking. I was
like, I gotta know, because I,you know, I use, we use this
vernacular in our in our world,the covenant vernacular and the
the trigger word betweencovenant and contract, which can
sometimes inappropriately beinterchanged, right? A contract
is a legal agreement. It is tickfor tack, right? I do this. You
(07:00):
do that if then statementsright? And that's what typically
like, if a customer buyssomething from you, they enter
into a contract. If an employeeworks for you, they enter into
an employment contract. The keyword, and I found it in five
different resources, the keyword about a covenant is a
promise. Yeah, it's a one waycommitment.
Eric Flow (07:22):
Yes, actually, yeah, very much. So, you know, we we
look at making a commitment toour customers, that we're going
to keep our promises, and we canbe full of trust now. We're a
human run organization. We makemistakes every day, right? But,
you know, I found out early inmy career, it's not about if you
ever make a mistake, it's abouthow you handle that mistake, and
(07:45):
if you try to make up for it andyou try to do the right thing.
And I've had plenty. I mean, Ihad a situation. I was a young
service manager inCharlottesville, Virginia. It
was a Porsche Audi, VolkswagenMazda location. You know, we had
this customer with a 964 911 oilleak. We fixed it for them, and
we didn't fix it for them. And,you know, two, it took me two
(08:07):
and a half years and 50 grand toresolve, but we got it resolved,
right? And they be we spend moremoney on this car than this car
was worth, by far, but we turnedthe customer to a huge advocate
for us, right? And, you know, wereally want to focus our people
on empowering our people tomake, to make those good
(08:27):
decisions.
Unknown (08:28):
And okay, so I want to know the dirty part of it,
because you grew up in anautomotive family, like there's
no way it was all sunshine androses when you were growing up,
and grandpa and dad are in thecar business. And when was the
time where you turned over andwe're like, Fine, I'll be in the
car business. Or were you like,true from from birth? That
Eric Flow (08:49):
is a really good question. So I would say this,
nobody in my family ever saidyou have to be in the car
business. This is what you'redoing. Ever it was always
something I really, reallywanted to do. It really was,
and, you know, it was somethingI grew up in, you know, I was,
we're in North Carolina,headquartered in Winston, Salem
(09:10):
right. So it would snow two orthree times a year, like two
inches, you know. And I wasgoing with my dad to knock snow
off cars, you know, in middleschool, I was going to help wash
cars in the summer time, and Iwanted to learn to change oil
and rotate tires in high schooland paint, paint fenders and
things. And I liked going. I Mydad would take me these
manufacturer meetings, which, bythe way, manufacturer meetings
(09:32):
in the 90s were fantastic.
Global Financial pre globalfinancial crisis, were a ton of
fun. And,
Paul J Daly (09:41):
you know, okay, tell us about those.
Eric Flow (09:44):
But I always, I always really enjoyed it, and I
knew that's what I wanted to do.
And I've done some other thingsthat were, I would say, non
career oriented jobs, you know,and some internships that were
more career oriented, betweengrad school and college and
stuff like that. But I reallyalways enjoyed. It. You know,
coming out of grad school, therewas a time in grad school where
I was sitting there thinking, doI want to go straight back in?
(10:04):
Do I want to do something else?
And have I really committed tothis? Or was it just something
that was, was it a consciousdecision in it? Like I said, No
one in my family ever pressuredme. So it wasn't that at all. It
was a I had, I took a step backto say to myself, have I made
that conscious decision? BecauseI'm committing to you know, when
(10:27):
you're working your familybusiness, you don't leave after
five years, very often, becauseyou don't like it, right?
Because that's so I wanted tosay, Listen, I'm coming on to
grad school. I've worked in ourcompany post college four years,
non stop. Really liked it,mainly all fixed operation
stuff, going back in, going tocome out, go run a store. That
(10:49):
was sort of the plan. You know,is this what I really want to
do? And I need to make thatconscious decision for myself,
to say actively Yes, notpassively Yes. Because even if
people aren't putting thatpressure on you, and they
weren't. I want to be clearabout that in my family, it was
something that I had just alwaysassumed I wanted to do and
enjoyed, and so I took that timeto really say, Yes, this is what
(11:11):
I want to do. And there's a lotof reasons for that. I mean, I'm
grateful to our company. It'sprovided me with incredible
opportunities in life. You know,I think we have a lot of
responsibility to our teammembers and our communities who
were in but that alone, all ofthose things are really true,
that alone isn't a reason to dosomething, right? There's a lot
of you know, you I love ourbusiness. I love the customers,
(11:34):
I love the employees. I alsolove the challenge every day of
getting to use every part of mybrain, right? You know? Yeah,
undergrads and my undergrads inbusiness and marketing and
Spanish, my graduate degree Ihave, you know, MBA from
Northwestern, and my majors werelike, quantitative finance,
Decision Sciences andquantitative marketing. Okay,
(11:56):
you know what I do? I have a lotof friends that have great
careers, but they're pigeonholed into, like, a really,
Paul J Daly (12:05):
really quantitative finance
Eric Flow (12:08):
right? Where it's like, this is what I do every
day in our business. Hey, you'reworking on comp plans, you know,
a recruiting structure. You'reworking on marketing the next
second event, website, meetingyesterday on our relaunch a
website. And this we're doingthe community piece of it. We're
working on our LM s or, youknow, training module you're
(12:31):
working on, you're with theaccounting team, trying to work
on X, Y or Z. And so you'reusing, really, I get to use
every facet of my brain on adaily and weekly basis. And I
think that's really thatdiversity is fun for me, and it
keeps it very interesting.
There's never a dull moment.
Paul J Daly (12:46):
Let me ask you, this is a pressing question. I'm
going to let Michael talk everysometime before we're done, you
mentioned, you know, turningwrenches, oil changes, painting
fenders. What is your by far,like? Give me the front runner,
what is the best smell in theautomotive industry?
Eric Flow (13:03):
The best smell? Yeah, um, this is a
Unknown (13:08):
selfish question. I was like new car smell.
Eric Flow (13:12):
I like new car smell.
I will say this when we, when Iwas younger, we were paying
cars, you know, we use a lot ofbrake cleaner. Brake cleaner is
great, and it's great. It's sobad for you.
Unknown (13:22):
Oh, yeah, well, I'm
Paul J Daly (13:24):
saying like, like, there's, there's, like, new
tires, there's great cleaner,there's detailing chemicals,
there's, you know, like, reducerthere's all kinds of things that
just are Bondo. Bondo, yes, youjust, there's a lot of young by
the way, but, yeah,
Eric Flow (13:39):
yeah, there's a lot of really unique smells. And you
know, I'm glad to say ourindustry, from a safety
perspective, has continued toimprove and improve. But boy,
you walk through some shops, andI'm not implicating any of ours,
but you walk through some shopsand you see people, you're like,
oh, boy, those gloves back on.
Do you need to eat
Paul J Daly (13:58):
the sandwich right now? Hands in the reducer to
clean.
Eric Flow (14:02):
Oh, I used to clean my hands with brake cleaner. You
know, that's what everybody toldme to do.
Unknown (14:08):
Oh, no, sorry, I didn't pass
the statute of limitations onthat. But
Michael Cirillo (14:13):
how does, how does all of the so I mean this,
I'm just the boys will tell you,I take notes. I'm sitting here.
I'm just so enthralled withthis. I'm kind of curious about
the DNA of the organizationwhere this all started. Right?
So your third or fourth gen?
Eric Flow (14:32):
So our company was started by my grandfather, okay,
third generation. My greatgrandfather was a Chevrolet
dealer back before thedepression, got out of the
business. During the Depression,did some real estate
development, did a number ofother things. My grandfather was
in the army at the end of WorldWar Two, so he 96 now. So he
(14:55):
pretty young for thatgeneration. Still with us, doing
great. And he was. Stationed inJapan at General Headquarters
with Douglas MacArthur. He wasactually Douglas MacArthur's
courier and aide for three, fouryears in Japan at General
Headquarters, comes back toAmerica, goes to Wake Forest.
(15:15):
Wants to get in the automobilebusiness, gets a job as Henry
Ford the second privatesecretary, assistant, what leads
to the other one? Yes, it was avery close network in America
that point in time, right? Yeah,moves to Detroit. Is there for a
little while. From the south,it's cold, it's snowy. There's
(15:38):
no EPA. The snow is like black,right there for a year and a
half or something, says, I wantto move back. Becomes a partner
in a Ford store in elk in NorthCarolina. And my grandmother
grew up. Her family was fromArkansas, but she grew up
outside of Chicago and outsideof New York, and then moved to
Winston Salem because her grandher dad, worked for Bell South,
(15:58):
which was had a regionalheadquarter in Winston Salem, so
she's in elk in North Carolina,which is a small little town.
She has my dad. She's pregnantwith my uncle, and sort of like,
hey, I need to move to a biggertown. Can we move to a bigger
town? So they moved to WinstonSalem, where he opened the used
(16:19):
car lot before we had any newcar franchises, because he sold
out of his partnership in Elkin.
And actually my grandfather,when he was opening his first
store in Winston, got my greatgrandfather, his dad, who had
retired and had been a dealerway back, to come be a service
manager for him when he openedhis store. Like, Hey, Dad, can
you come help me out?
Michael Cirillo (16:41):
So what? What I mean, this is actually really
interesting to me as I as Ithink about this, you know,
experience in war, Henry Ford,Secretary, you know, Detroit,
all these moves. And I thinkabout at, at what point, see,
I'm so intrigued by this, I wantto ask the question, right?
(17:01):
Because when you talk aboutcovenant community, customer,
you know the intentionalitybehind all of those things? Who?
Who's responsible?
Eric Flow (17:12):
Yeah, so I would say, you know, my grandfather started
with that culture, sort of interms of what I mentioned about
used cars and etc. And then mydad really, really grew that
culture in a super intentionalway. So my father went to
University of Virginia as well.
I went there. My wife wentthere. My mom went there, my
sisters went there. So it's sortof a whole family thing. And
post UVA, before he started withmy grandfather's business, my
(17:37):
dad's very faithful individual.
Went to a college in Vancouver,British company called Regent
college, and he was reallystruggling about how to live out
his faith in business at thesame time. And can you be a
faith oriented business? Can yoube a faithful person? Can you be
a person who focuses on doinggood in the world and in your
community through your business?
Or do I need to go into ministryto really live that creed, and
(18:00):
really because he likedbusiness, and it was no I can, I
can have a company and grow acompany, have a vision for a
company in a way that serves amission as well for individuals
and for our community. And so Iwould say my my father, is
really responsible for drivingthe orientation, or formalizing
that orientation, growing thatorientation, and really driving
it in that direction. And he'svery thoughtful about those
(18:21):
things, and they're at the coreand underpinning of everything
we do. You know, we've turneddown lots of opportunities
because they didn't fit the waywho we are and how we want to
live. And we've made lots ofbusiness decisions that, you
know, some people would arguewhat the right decision for the
short run, but we would arguethe right decision for the right
(18:41):
decision for the long run. Andas I said the beginning, you can
do the right thing because ofwho you are and how you want to
live and do the right thingbecause it's the right economic
decision. I think most of ourdecisions that we make, and we
would make them either way if itwas the right thing to do, but I
think they're all really servedboth purposes. I think people
want to do business and want towork for an organization that is
(19:02):
mission aligned with, you know,in that manner, yeah. And
Kyle Mountsier (19:08):
I think actually, this is a, it's a
question that we come up a loton, because we, like our focus
is a lot around the people sideof the business thriving people
provide thriving profits. Butthe question is always like, how
do you turn that in? Because,you know, we've been on this
podcast for, I don't know, 15,1617, minutes, something like
that. And a lot of people couldbe like, Oh, nap, nap pods and
(19:29):
ping pong tables never sell youa single car, right? But you
don't, oh.
Eric Flow (19:33):
So we talk about, you have to be high care and high
challenge and we're very highchallenge organization, right?
And we like to say, What's in ahigh challenge organization
without care is a meat grinder.
You get a certain sort ofpsychological profile that likes
that they're not generally greatwith employees and customers and
everybody else churns and leaveson time. High care only is a
(19:54):
therapy session, right? So youhave to have both. It has to be
high. High, high challenge andhigh care. You know, I think a
lot, my father played footballin college, and I played
football for a long time. Ithink a lot of us that sports
mentality of, we got to get thisfirst down, we got to hit this
three, you know, this freethrow, we got to do whatever.
And we can go do it guys, andwe're doing this together as a
(20:15):
team, right? And it's, it's bothof those things together.
Kyle Mountsier (20:20):
So, but how do you transition? Because you all
have been like, leading edge,right, bespoke website,
platform, like investor inmultiple tech companies. In the
auto industry, you've grown to50 rooftops. What are you doing
right now that is challenging,kind of the status quo of like
(20:41):
moving consumers into covenantclients, right? Yeah. So we're,
Eric Flow (20:50):
you know, we're really focused on trying to make
we're focused on two thingssimultaneously. One is employee
training, learning and buildingout our LMS and dealing with the
issues of scale, right? Becauseit used to be a lot easier.
Well, let's get all the salesmanagers together and we're
going to work on this, and we'lldo this once a week for the next
four weeks, and oh my gosh,that's a lot of people coming
(21:13):
from several hours away, andthey're not in the store and
they're not with their families.
That's tough, right? And sowe're working on how to use
technology to really help uscontinually train and reinforce
our culture and sort of thosebusiness processes. And then
we're also really focused onhelping our customers do
business with us more easily, atleast the let's call it the 8020
where we want customers who wantto do something that's pretty
(21:36):
simple with us, whether it'sservice or sales, be able to do
that in a way that's easier thaneverybody around us, and then in
so doing, we want to freeourselves up to have more time
with more humans to handle thosemore challenging cases. Right?
So, you know, hey, listen,there's no reason that I need a
(21:57):
human to tell you the value of afive year old Toyota Camry with
50,000 miles in a clean Carfax.
If I can't do that, something isreally wrong in 2025 right now,
a, you know, two year old,$90,000 car with a CARFAX minor
(22:21):
incident and a this and that. Ithink I want to look at that car
and figure out what's actuallygoing on. That's right. Same
thing with Hey, you got to, youknow, pretty easy, cash deal,
buyer, etc. I should be able tomake that a really easy with a
customer, hey, credit challenge,multiple co signers, multiple
trade in vehicles, negativeequity, whatever it is, okay,
(22:43):
that's where humans shine. Weget to go solve that problem for
that customer. And so we'rereally focused on, kind of
trying to create multiplepathways for our customers to
engage with us in the way thatmakes sense for their for their
scenario.
Paul J Daly (22:56):
You know, I think one of the one of the primary
ways that we get an at batanyway. Is is on the website,
and we know that. And you knowthe intentionality behind what
we say to customers on ourwebsite, about ourselves, how
the vehicle looks in photos,right? All, all of those things
make a massive difference, and Ithink they say something about
(23:18):
who we are, and the partnershipsthat we have with tech
companies, dealers have withtech companies, and the
willingness to like help youaccomplish your goals in that,
what do you look for in anindustry partner when it comes
to, you know, for instance, yourwebsite, or making things easy
for the customer to see what youhave?
Eric Flow (23:38):
Yeah, so, you know, vendor selection is a is really
important for us. And you know,from a merchandising
perspective, we're not sellinganything if it's not
merchandise. Well, I can tellyou that from our experience
with CDK last year, and it's noshady and CDK, I think they're a
great organization who had a lotof more security than any of us
(24:00):
will ever have. And you know,they had this unfortunate
experience. But I can tell you,if things aren't on the website
to sell, you're not going tosell them in today's world,
right? Pull it behind the bar.
Really important. And so, youknow, we have to have vendors
who can help us have ourvehicles online. Now, a lot of
what we do is look for vendorsthat can fit within our
ecosystem, because we have sortof a different tech stack and
(24:20):
ecosystem than a lot of otherecosystem than a lot of other
dealers. You know, we have ourown DBM digital vehicle
inventory management system thatwe built back before those
existed, and we continue to useand we've just gone through some
changes with it and tried someother things and gone back to
it, because it's how we pricevehicles, syndicate pictures,
syndicate descriptions. It'swhere we bring in external data
to help us price those vehiclesand create those descriptions
(24:42):
the right way. And so when itcomes to partners, we're looking
for partners that can do acouple of things for us. One, we
want those partners to beproviding a product that we
wouldn't build ourselves becauseit scales over plenty of
clients, so they have enoughmoney for R and D in that
product, right? So. So we'realso looking for partners that
are willing to have the off theshelf product, and they're also
(25:04):
willing to sell us a lot of thedata information behind their
product through APIs. So if wewant to take that information
and stick it in an internalproduct that we have, we can do
that as well, because I thinkthis industry needs and if you
look at the structure of thisindustry, you know, called
18,000 car dealers, or 18,000franchises in a new car
franchise in America. 93 and ahalf percent of them are owned
(25:27):
by holding company that ownsbetween one and three stores. So
the vast majority of them areowned by smaller dealer groups.
They need off the shelfproducts, right? And there's
times we need off the shelfproducts, but you also, we have
different needs sometimes wherewe say, this is really cool. We
don't want your whole product.
We already have the solution,and it works better for us, but
we want the data behind thatproduct, and we want an API to
(25:50):
it, and we're going to take thatinformation and go stick it in
this thing over here, right? Andthen we need sort of reliability
in that. I mean, you guys arefriends with one of our mutual
friends with car cutter, andthey've been a great solution
for us, right? It's superflexible fit within our dB. I am
great way for us to, you know,be able to have high quality
(26:11):
pictures. It also, oh, I'll saythis, any vendor that we have
that involves store operationalpeople doing something has to be
easily execute, executable andeasily trainable, right? And
they've done a great job withthat for us, you know, we've had
photo booths at different storesbefore. And again, I'm not
throwing any shade at those. Ifyou have a huge complex with a
(26:32):
bunch of brands, it could makesense for you to have that photo
booth for us. You know, we havethese clusters in different
cities, decentralized,
Kyle Mountsier (26:39):
different people, taking different things.
Yeah, are we going to drive cars
Eric Flow (26:43):
over here and then, if you Well, I have it in this
location, but not this. So, youknow, if you have a centralized
website, some of your pictureslook great, some of them don't.
We were really looking for thatsolution that we could roll out
enterprise wide and come up witha really homogenous way for
customers to see our cars sothey go, Okay, you have, you
know, three Honda stores in 100miles, and all of those pictures
(27:05):
look really good, and they alllook the same. I think that's
and it's easily achievable.
Paul J Daly (27:09):
I think that's a growing challenge in the
industry. As groups, smallgroups turned into mid sized
groups, and mid sized groupsturned into large groups. And
single point stores, probablythe biggest challenge is single
point store is turning to multipoint because until you have to
make that first jump of beingsomewhere else, you know,
especially the push toconsolidate used car inventory,
that that really is one of thethings. And there's nothing
(27:31):
worse, in my opinion, when yougo on a site and you're shopping
a used car inventory and youjust, it's the same company,
right? Like you expect it whenyou're in a third party. You
expect it when you're cars.comor not a trader or, you know,
but you don't expect it whenyou're on a captive deal or used
car site. And it's, it's,actually can be very confusing.
So we've,
Eric Flow (27:53):
you know, that's so we, we really want to come to
market as a consolidated Companyin the same way everywhere, not
just in those brand values Italked about the beginning, but
also in practical things to howour customers experience us,
right? And so there's thisstruggle there, right? Because
we have these individual storeswith individual general managers
and individual leadership teams,and we call them a general
(28:14):
manager, but these, some ofthese stores, are big, right? If
it was another industry, we'dcall them a CEO, you know, hey,
I got 165 employees, and I'mdoing this sort of revenue. And
I'm doing this sort
Unknown (28:25):
of revenue. Absolutely, that's bigger than
Eric Flow (28:28):
Yeah. So we want an entrepreneur spirit there, and
we want agency, yet we want itdone a certain way, because
we're flow. We want to come tomarket as flow. So there's this
tension there, and this thinrope and the thin line that we
walk, because we don't ever wantto turn into the big box
conglomerate, where the peoplewho are at the stores go, Well,
I don't know. I don't have anycontrol over that, so I don't
(28:50):
care. You know, corporate toldme what to do on it. That's
terrible, right? And if we andif you end up in that place, I
promise you, you're not going tobe an excellent sales
organization, right? Becausesales organizations are
inherently high agency peoplewho care about what's in front
of them and want to make adifference every day. So you're
sort of, you know, what we try,we have a lot of processes that
we create and centralized way todo things. And then we come up
(29:13):
with sort of these guidelinesand boundaries where we go.
Here's where you're operating inwithin here, and you get to pick
some differences around there.
And also, you know, there's youcan request exceptions for
different things, and we, maybewe have a centralized pricing
team or a centralized that team,and those individuals can allow
those exceptions or thoseguidelines for those exceptions,
right?
Michael Cirillo (29:34):
I, I don't want to close it down with a dad
joke, but I can't help butnotice how well the flow from
intention and covenants andorganization and DNA right
through to intention andcovenant, oh yeah, all the way
around
Paul J Daly (29:51):
to to, like, how you it was like this cutter
Michael Cirillo (29:54):
and other vendor partners and all of these
sorts of things, I think is, istremendous. And I mean this,
this is. Why we do this show.
It's to sit down withindividuals like you who are in
it every day, who are thinkingthrough this at a different
level, to differentiate, to toyou know, highlight what's
available to all, but only thewillingness of a few. And so
(30:14):
Eric man, this has been soenlightening. We want to express
our appreciation for you joiningus on Auto Collabs today.
Eric Flow (30:22):
Well, thank you guys for having me. It's truly nice
to get to know you guys. I lookforward to doing something
together, and I hope you'll makeit to Baltimore at some point in
time and to hang out with youguys at the southern con. So
thank you.
Michael Cirillo (30:40):
Is my math, right? Do I have
Paul J Daly (30:41):
eight Grace still on this? After that whole
conversation, I'm like, I mean,I know you. I know you were
there. You did ask
Kyle Mountsier (30:50):
me an equal question. It was so I'm so proud
of you, first of all, forgetting that answer out. You
nailed it, and you made it sosneaky, too, like it wasn't even
on purpose. It was unbelievable.
Okay,
Michael Cirillo (31:02):
but can we just, let's not gloss over the
fact, and we didn't while wetalked to him. But you ever
heard a dealer use the wordCOVID covenant before
Kyle Mountsier (31:09):
blew my mind?
No, I'm like, immediately like,what does covenant mean?
Paul J Daly (31:14):
Literally, the only, the only times outside of
theological reference that thatword is used in modern culture
would be some kind of, like aland covenant, right, right,
which is like, uh, but that'sit. I mean, the covenant of
marriage, right? Marriage is acovenant relationship.
Kyle Mountsier (31:30):
Relationship, that is, I didn't say that part,
but every single source wassacred relationship. It involved
a promise like that. Is a deepway of thinking about your
people that tell
Paul J Daly (31:40):
me that's not a place you want to work or do
business I'm in.
Michael Cirillo (31:44):
Like yesterday, I was thinking about the impact
of that word and its meaning onthe customer relationship, where
for decades, it's been like,well, the customer is always
right, or no, the customer, youknow, there's always that
debate, but it's like, well,what does it mean to make a
covenant to your customers,yeah, and
Kyle Mountsier (32:02):
it's one sided, where a covenant is one sided,
Paul J Daly (32:06):
yeah, that's regardless of what you do.
Regardless do this, I promise.
Sometimes
Michael Cirillo (32:14):
that means repairing a car that's not even
worth it. Just
Paul J Daly (32:20):
exactly what that means. Yeah, you guys want to
know what my great grandfatherdid. Yeah, great grandfather, do
I only know one of them. Did hework at Chipotle? No. His name
was Joey amarosi, by the way,yeah, just like that. And it was
amarosi. Prepare to besurprised. Oh, he was a Finnish
carpenter who also played themandolin
Unknown (32:45):
in South Philly.
Michael Cirillo (32:48):
I was like, one of two ways. He either lays
tile, he's like, carpenterfinished
Unknown (32:54):
carpenter that's amazing through
Paul J Daly (32:56):
and through. Well, look, regardless of what your
great grandfather does, we hopeyou thought about it a little
bit, or maybe figured it out.
But more than that, we hope yourealize that there is some real
depth and substance within theretail auto industry that's
right. So on behalf of KyleMountsier, Michael Cirillo and
myself, thank you for joiningus, as always on Auto Collabs,
sign
Unknown (33:15):
up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free
shot of relevant news andautomotive retail media and pop
culture, you can get itnow@asotu.com That's asotu.com
if you love this podcast, pleaseleave us a review and share it
with a friend. Thanks again forlistening. We'll see you next
time you welcome to Annika. Lastrecording you.
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