August 12, 2025 • 25 mins
From Kentucky minivan launches to Tokyo auto shows to the Wall Street Journal—Jamie Butters has been shaping automotive news for decades, and now he’s taking that storytelling to an even bigger stage.
In this episode, Paul J Daly sits down with veteran automotive journalist Jamie Butters, fresh off his transition from Automotive News to the Wall Street Journal. Jamie recounts his path from covering Toyota’s first U.S.-built Sienna in the late ’90s to reporting on the industry’s most pivotal bankruptcies, technological leaps, and retail shifts. He shares what it’s like to learn the business from the manufacturing floor up, why hybrid tech’s “overnight” success took decades, and how the view changes when you go from niche trade coverage to a global financial publication.
The conversation digs into the future of journalism in an AI-driven world—why algorithms can’t replace relationships, why trust is the most valuable currency in news, and why every retail automotive pro should read beyond industry headlines. From geopolitical EV battles to dealer lot realities, Jamie explains how the Wall Street Journal will bring broader context to the business of selling cars, and why that matters now more than ever.
Takeaways:
0:00 – Why Automotive Needs Real Journalists, Not Just Headlines
0:56 – Why Jamie Butters’ Move to the Wall Street Journal Matters for Retail Auto
3:26 – From Kentucky to Tokyo: Learning the Industry Through Toyota’s Lens
4:07 – Seeing Hybrids Before the World Was Ready
5:48 – Why You Can’t Legislate Technology Adoption Overnight
8:55 – The Financial Crisis Years: Inside GM and Chrysler Bankruptcies
13:45 – Why Every Automotive Career Should Start with Industry Awareness
14:19 – Dealers Need Global Context, Not Just Local News
16:21 – The Value of Competing News Sources in a Polarized World
17:28 – AI Can Summarize Facts, But It Can’t Build Trust
19:30 – How Human Journalists Will Remain Essential in the AI Era
21:21 – What Jamie Will Cover Next at the Wall Street Journal
Connect with Jamie Butters at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-butters-909ba45/
Read The Wall Street Journal at https://www.wsj.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul J Daly (00:00):
You know, one of the things that I don't think we
(00:01):
give enough credit to
Unknown (00:08):
this is auto Collabs as an
Paul J Daly (00:11):
industry, and us at more than cars, but also as an
industry, is that you needactual journalists and actual
people with actual relationshipsto generate the news that we all
talk about, right? We kind ofthe easy job, and we generate
some of it from the start. Butthere's a whole there's a whole
(00:31):
team. Team is too small a word,right? There is a cadre. There
is a battalion of automotiveindustry journalists that are
constantly out there talking tomanufacturers, suppliers,
dealers, tech companies, toactually bring the news to the
surface. And today's guest,Jamie butters has had had a big
hand in that, and will continuenow that he's moving on to Wall
(00:54):
Street Journal, yeah,
Kyle Mountsier (00:56):
I'm excited that it won, that he's moving on to
Wall Street Journal, I thinkthat that's going to be a key
play for, like, retail,automotive, to get a different
perspective into a broaderpublication. But I love what
you're saying there, and I hope,hope you can get into this
conversation with him. But it'sit. It's really interesting to
(01:16):
me that in this world of AI,like, AI still needs source
material, right? Like we stillneed to provide source material
to everything else that we'retalking about, and there still
will have to be people that areon the ground thinking about the
source material of any industry,any human connection, any
conversation. And I think Jamiebutters is great at digging up
(01:38):
source material.
Michael Cirillo (01:39):
Why don't we dig in. I gotta say, I have to
imagine the journalists aresurrounded by cork board and
like lines of yarn, becausethey're like cigarettes and like
tweed jackets with elbowpatches. Anyways, off on a
tangent. Hey guys. I hope youenjoy this episode with Jamie
(02:01):
Thaddeus, Bartholomew butters,Collabs.
Paul J Daly (02:09):
Jamie butter is my friend. It is good to have you.
I believe the first time you'veever been on this show.
Jamie Butters (02:14):
Welcome. Hey, Paul. Well, we've recorded some
we were at at name ad, yeah, Ijoined you. So unless this is a
separate show, I'm not
Paul J Daly (02:24):
even sure what show it is. It's the same team we
have. We have some shows, buteither way, big transition going
on. And from you moving fromautomotive news in the Wall
Street Journal, and like youhave this interesting
perspective on the industry, andI think you also have a very
unique place in the industry. Asthe editor for auto news for so
(02:44):
long, I think people justassociate you with the center
point of what's going on in theindustry. And so I think, like,
because there's a change beingmade, I think, like, it's
different than it's differentthan anybody else you know, so
I'm excited about it. I'm a longtime Wall Street Journal reader.
So I always joke with when we gointo the airport and stuff and
(03:04):
there's, like, a Wall StreetJournal store, I always tell
everyone I'm gonna walk in andshow everyone that I'm a
subscriber. And so tell us alittle bit about your journey in
automotive, though, because,like, your time with automotive
news, wasn't it? You werecovering automotive a long time,
for a long time, and you bring alot of that experience forward,
and you kind of have some visionfor have some vision for the
next stage of your career. SoI'd love to just unpack
Jamie Butters (03:26):
that a little bit, sure. Yeah. I mean, you're
right. I've been doing this along
Paul J Daly (03:29):
time. Wasn't an old joke, I promise, yeah. But
Jamie Butters (03:33):
no, you know, it's been really interesting,
because I started covering autosin the late 90s. You know, when
I was when my wife and I bothworked at the Lexington Herald
Leader down in central Kentucky.
Toyota had a plant nearby, and Icovered a job, one, you know,
for the Sienna minivan rollingoff the line there, and Toyota
ended up, long story short, Iended up going my first auto
(03:56):
show ended up being Tokyo in1997
Paul J Daly (04:00):
first one was Tokyo, yeah, before
Jamie Butters (04:02):
I ever went to an auto show, talk
Paul J Daly (04:04):
about going deep end, right out of the gates.
Jamie Butters (04:07):
Yo, learning the industry from Toyota was a
really different perspective,and which especially drove home
when I moved to Detroit andpeople had a little different
point of view growing up, youknow, around a really unionized
auto industry. But I learnedabout the industry, you know,
really from Toyota and itsmanufacturing processes. And
also that Tokyo 97 show was whenToyota and Honda first came out
(04:32):
with hybrids, and this was thebeginning of election 97 Yeah,
the Prius and the Honda Insightand so, and even at the time and
what I came back, and my main,you know, project that I wrote
about from the trip was, youknow, that this was a new kind
of vehicle, a new kind of powertrain. And Toyota saw it, you
(04:54):
know, this gas and electriccombination with the little
animation on the screen to showyou where your power is coming.
From and how regeneration, youknow, recharges the batteries.
You know that this was astepping stone to electric
vehicles, which, you know, we'dhardly had any, I mean, the EV
one, and then they saw that as astepping stone to hydrogen fuel
(05:14):
cell. And here I am, you know,almost 30 years later, yeah, you
know, Toyota is more than 50%hybrids, at least in the US. US
market is 8% electric, you know,one out of 12. That's not as
much as some people were talkingabout just a few years ago, but
not even it's a big differencefrom, you know, 20 years ago or
(05:36):
10 years ago. So, you know, it'smore than a million vehicles a
year, and that's an interestinggrowth curve, but these changes
take a long time, is one of thethings I've apparently
Paul J Daly (05:48):
and apparently you can't legislate your way as fast
as you would like.
Jamie Butters (05:52):
No, not if you're going to let the companies
survive as as independent, youknow, capitalist entities,
because it's just too hard tomake money on those vehicles,
you know, without a lot of a lotof support at this point. But
yeah, so I was at the HeraldLeader until 2000 the day after
the bush Gore election. We movedto Detroit. I was at the Detroit
(06:14):
Free Press for eight years,basically the whole George W
Bush years. I did take a littletime off to go to the University
of Michigan on a knight WallaceFellowship, which was fun. I got
to go to Argentina and Istanbul,really places I'd never been
before. I'd been a little toAsia and a little to Europe. I'd
(06:35):
never been to South America. I'dnever been to the Middle East.
So that was really fascinating.
That's when I started editing. Icame in as a reporter, and then
after, after the fellowship, youknow, we got, right before I
went on the fellowship, thenewspaper got sold to Gannett,
and I came back, and basicallyeverybody from my direct boss
through the chairman of theboard was different. So I had to
find my way at a new place thatI had been working for five
(07:01):
years, six years, and became theauto editor and auto as a
business editor. And then rightaround when the economy started
falling apart, I went toBloomberg and ran the auto team
there through the bankruptciesof GM and Chrysler and being,
you know, covering that for afinancial focused news
(07:24):
organization, you know, wasreally intense. Yeah, you know,
it had seemed, it's hard to evenremember at this point, but you
know, it had seemed unthinkablethat General Motors could go
bankrupt, even though theirfinances were so bad, it was
just like they were too big, itwould be too chaotic. And then
they started talking about,there's maybe this little,
(07:44):
little used clause in thebankruptcy, and we could just
sort of pull out the assets andput them into a new CO and and
so the section 363, became thegospel, and the government, you
know, managed those bankruptciesand kept the auto industry
moving really fascinating times.
(08:06):
Then you know the competitivedifference between GM and Ford,
because Ford didn't go throughthe bankruptcy and get their
balance sheet cleaned up likethat was was really fascinating.
And then in 2018 I went toautomotive news and really got
to learn more about the retailend of the business. Obviously,
automotive news doesn't justcover dealers. Covers the whole
industry, but it was somethingthat I didn't have as much
(08:30):
exposure to working for generalinterest newspapers or the
financial news wires. So thatwas really educational for me.
And now next month, I'll go tothe Wall Street Journal, and it
was placed that really inspiredmy desire to get into business
journalism. It was really thegold standard. I think it's
(08:50):
gotten more. Tell me aboutjournalism. Tell me about that.
You know, like the
Paul J Daly (08:55):
inspiration back, like, when did you, you know,
hold that, that addition up inyour hands, and with that the
way the print feels, and yousay, one day Wall Street
Journal,
Jamie Butters (09:06):
you know, I actually, I never, didn't know.
I really, ever thought I wouldmake it there. But when I was,
when I was in college, you know,you they had, they'd have
discounted subscriptions to thenewspapers. You'd see them
littered all up and down tocollege neighborhoods. Everyone
subscribe, and then they don'talways get up early in the
morning to go bring them in.
But, you know, yeah, talk about,I mean, back in the print era,
and I grew up in theirnewspapers before the interwebs,
(09:28):
and it was so great because theyhad the two new summary columns.
They had the two, you know, mainheavy stories, the the leaders,
and then the a head, the featurestory at the you know, that
started around the middle ofpage one. Always was a super
entertaining read. I love the,you know, the predictability of
(09:49):
the format and the quality, youknow, of what was in there. It's
just like nobody could do whatthey did. Well, then a short
time later, you know, a couple,a few people from the. Uh, the
Wall Street Journal broke offand created Bloomberg News, and
with the backing of the richestman in New York, built a quite
an estimable news army
Paul J Daly (10:09):
that'll help.
Always helps.
Jamie Butters (10:11):
Yep, yeah. So, you know, the the journal,
Reuters and Bloomberg are sortof probably the biggest, you
know, Global Business Newsentities and, and, yeah, the the
Wall Street Journal has justalways been, it's, it's such an
iconic place. I mean, we talkabout, you know, you look at the
biggest measure of the market,or, you know, a lot of people
(10:33):
even use it as measure of theeconomy, but the Dow Jones
Industrial Average, I mean, thatwas created by Dow and Jones.
And, you know, Dow Jones is thename of the of the company that
owns the Wall Street Journal,and that is owned by News Corp.
So it's, it's complicated, but,but it wasn't back in the day,
right? Yeah, it wasn't,
Paul J Daly (10:52):
it wasn't back in the day. And, you know, it's
more complicated. So I think soa lot of our audience is
definitely the dealer side. And,you know, automotive news is a
staple. I, you know, I've justbeen in and out of hundreds and
hundreds of dealerships in mycareer, and always see a copy of
automotive news laying on thetable in the GMs office or the
owner's office. But I do alsosee a lot of Wall Street Journal
(11:15):
and I had one very specific andprobably the first time I became
a Wall Street Journal readersbecause I was with, I was in
Greg CEO senior office and theCEO water group. He's, he's
broken through the top 50 now,and he's on a streak. And this
was, I mean, this had to be over10 years ago. And he gave me his
copy of Wall Street Journal, andhe said, he said, Paul, I read
(11:38):
this every single morning, andit is one of the ways that I've
been able to be as successful asI am. He goes because it's
important that you know what'sgoing on, not just here, but
around you in the rest of theecosystem. And he gave me a
copy. Said you absolutely haveto subscribe. From that day, I
went home and I subscribeddigital edition, and I've been
(11:58):
I've paid attention ever since,and and honestly, I have to say
that the the type of journalismthat Wall Street Journal is will
like has given to me over thelast years, especially through
all the tumultuous years of thepandemic and all of the social
unrest and political unrest andall the things that have been
going on there, there is, thereis a bit of solace in the Wall
(12:21):
Street Journal that I felt likeI could, I could read and not
walk away like riled up, I guessI should say. And so, so it's,
it's always been an interestingthing. And like dealers I have
known, like Mr. Cioca, who relyon it, you know, for not just
the retail auto news, because,without a doubt, like, they
don't talk that much aboutdealers. And when I do see a
(12:45):
dealer in there, it's like myfriend Earl Stewart from Earl
Stewart Toyota, what used to befrequently quoted in The Wall
Street Journal, because he's gotsuch unique perspective on the
industry. You have like I'velearned so much from you and
from Dan shine over the years,understanding the different
components that it takes tocover the industry. I think a
lot of our audience thinks of itretailers first, but then the
(13:07):
understand the OEM is obviouslyan important part, suppliers, a
very important part thepolitical climate, or the
geopolitical climate, and what'shappening on vehicles, I think,
has just come to the forefrontmore than it ever has in the
last three years because ofChinese EVs and what has been
going on, you know, in thosepandemic years, I feel like, you
know, we kind of got caughtsleeping a little bit, tried to
(13:29):
play catch up. But obviouslythat's a major component to what
is going to be happening on thefront lines of the dealership.
So when you go there and thetype like, tell us about the
type of reporting you're goingto be doing and why retail auto
dealers should be payingattention to the coverage.
Jamie Butters (13:45):
Yeah. I mean, Mr.
Ciako is right, and it's good ofyou to take his advice, right? I
mean, automotive news isabsolutely essential. I think
anybody at any stage in anautomotive career needs to be
reading Automotive News, whetheryou're a beginning engineer or
accountant at a supplier or anautomaker, or you're, you know,
honestly, even, you know, Ithink a service tech, you know,
(14:06):
any sales person should knowmore about what's going on in
the industry than what theirboss is telling them they need
to do. Yeah,
Paul J Daly (14:14):
I would say anybody, anybody that one has an
aspiration to continue to growin the industry,
Jamie Butters (14:19):
we'll put it there right and then. But beyond
that, you know, it's not justenough to know everything
happening in your industry. Youneed more of that outside
context. You know, there's onlyso much about the global economy
or financial markets or even,you know, the Federal Reserve
that automotive news can getinto. But you know, somebody
like the Wall Street Journalwith teams around the globe. You
(14:42):
know, really, you know, topexperts covering, you know,
finance and economics and otherand you see parallels in other
industries, some things that aresimilar, some things that are
different. And it's great toread, you know, 1000 word, 3000
word story that takes you deepinto a company in. An industry
you wouldn't necessarily readabout normally, but you can read
(15:03):
that say, oh, yeah, that's likewhat we went through with cyber
attack. That's what we wentthrough with our generational
employees trying to communicateto millennials and Gen Z, you
know, and and there are lessonsto be learned, and that
perspective that comes fromother, you know, high level news
outlets, you know, and in thejournal, I think is, is one of
(15:26):
the highest Did I answer yourquestion, or did I do something?
But, but those,
Paul J Daly (15:34):
I think, I think you answer
Jamie Butters (15:35):
strongly about it. It's so important. You know,
no one, and you shouldn't justread the Wall Street Journal,
right? You should get a varietyinputs and information from a
variety of sources so you can,you know, weigh way a point of
view against another, you know,hold each other accountable. You
know, sometimes everybody getsit wrong. You know, what we try
(15:56):
to have in the fourth estate,you know, sort of a self
correcting mechanism, you know,if, if the Wall Street Journal
writes something, and then theNew York Times writes something
that conflicts with it, youknow, we're going to prosecute,
we're going to dig in and try tosee, you know, who's right, or
how much of it's right, is theremore nuance? Yeah. And
hopefully, you know thatcompetition draws everybody to
the same, you know, conclusions,but along the way, it's always
(16:19):
good to get multipleperspectives.
Paul J Daly (16:21):
You know, we're in in this seismic shift right now
of technology and writing ingeneral, because of the
emergence of, you know, AI andgenerative AI, and now, you
know, AI, who is doing that, isdoing research, deep research
agents that are browsing theweb. It's obviously upending
just about every industry, but Ifeel like the news industry is
(16:45):
toward the front of the pack, asfar as the one that is being
forced to have to, like, evolveand change and figuring out how
is how, how are the humans goingto remain important moving
forward in this world whereeveryone's trying to, like, just
deploy, I don't know. Let's justbe honest. Like, people try to
deploy fast technology to get amediocre response right, because
(17:09):
they deploy the technology fastand the and like, how do we, how
do we move forward as a newsindustry in this world where
this is people are able to getthese fast answers that they
maybe don't vet fully. It'scomplex question answering.
Yeah, no. I mean, it's we haveleft, but we could do a whole
hour on this.
Jamie Butters (17:28):
I mean, it's challenging for news consumers,
whatever you know they're tryingto learn about. But I think you
know there is, there'sdefinitely value in in the trust
that the readers can have in abrand like the Wall Street
Journal, New York Times,automotive news, etc, and but
(17:49):
also it's there's no substitutefor the actual reporting. I
mean, AI can give you an answer.
You can spit anything intoGoogle or Siri, and they'll give
you an answer. And they're doingthe best they can, but all they
can use is the informationthat's already been published by
somebody, and that has to startwith reporters on the ground,
you know, editors and reporters,journalists making connections
(18:11):
between, you know, one policyand another, or one trend and
another. You know, that's wherethe you know, you have to go out
and talk to the dealers, talk tothe executives, talk to the
analysts, you know. So it isn'tjust analyst reports and press
releases that are being digestedby an AI bot. You know, the
humans have to, maybe they usethose AI tools sometimes, but
(18:34):
they have to be the ones, youknow, deciding kind of, you know
what's news, and why is it news?
You know what people can get thenews. They can get the
information. What did GM reportin its earnings last week? But
it's you know, why? Why were theearnings down? And how did the
tariffs affect the earnings? Andwhat does the company have to
(18:56):
say about how they're movingforward? What do other people
have to say about it? Howconfident are the dealers? And
it's the journalists who have togo out and ask those questions,
get the good answers fromtrusted, you know, reliable
sources. You know data sourcesand the dealers themselves,
dealer, you know reliable peopleon the ground who will tell you
what's going on. You know,that's what we can provide. And
(19:17):
I feel like that's our bestdefense against AI is to have
the human intelligence, thehuman relations, and relay those
in a, you know, hopefully in acompelling, you know,
storytelling way.
Paul J Daly (19:31):
I also feel like sentiment, control is something
that, and I'll say control, butlike, I mean keeping it on the
rails, right? Because a lot oftimes you have this, like
ambitious, I'll call itambitious sentiment that comes
across from some people in thenews industry and, like, not
getting political, but whateveryou believe, whatever your
beliefs are, right, there is athere's no shortage of
(19:53):
passionate sentiment that comesalongside the facts. And so I
think that measured down theline, humans who. People who are
saying, we're reporting thefacts, we're asking the
question, we're building, theconnections, really, these are
like harbingers of trust that weneed, and I think we'll continue
to need, as people start tobelieve less and less of what
they see
Jamie Butters (20:12):
with AI, with AI in that front too. You're right.
I mean, the it's it's amazing,the things you see already on
social media, and that looks soreal, or so nearly real, you
know, you can believe them ifyou want to. You can kind of
believe them if you want to.
Maybe it's just a specialeffect, you know, on a real
person. But it's not going to belong before they they will just
(20:35):
look so real, and you're goingto have to have some provenance,
you know, whether you say I cantrust this video, because it
literally is coming fromwhitehouse.gov, right? That's
how I believe it's thepresident, or it's coming from,
you know, Fox News. It's comingfrom CBS. It's gonna, you know,
it's some, somebody that we knowis telling us they vetted it and
(20:57):
that it's real. But all theother stuff you just see shared
around on, you know, Twitter andInstagram is going to have a
higher and higher propensity tobe fake.
Paul J Daly (21:08):
Yeah. So last question, because we only have
about a minute left, where canwe see and read and pay
attention to your work movingforward, what exactly you're
going to be doing and where canwe see your work?
Jamie Butters (21:21):
Yeah, well, you know, wsj.com is our, is our
main platform, if you go autos,is not the biggest part of the
Wall Street Journal anymore. Itwas maybe 30 years ago. Was very
big part. It's a little lessnow. But if you, if you look in
across the top, there'll betabs, you know, politics and
(21:45):
world, and one is business, andyou drop down and there's an
auto you can always see, youknow, there's always a handful
of stories, story or three. Andyou know, that's where we'll be
feeding the beast. I'll have sixreporters starting out, and two
in Detroit, two in New York andtwo in Chicago, covering
(22:05):
manufacturing. So I'll be overautos and manufacturing. Look
forward to really having thisgreat big stage to tell auto
stories, but especially after,you know, my six and a half
years at a n sharing some of theinsights that I've gleaned about
(22:28):
the retail business. You know,with the broader Wall Street
Journal audience, I thinkthey're going to find this
industry, that part of theindustry, as fascinating as I
do.
Paul J Daly (22:37):
Yeah, well, I hope so. Jamie, it's been a pleasure
to spend some time with youtoday. Thanks for giving us some
time. And best, time, and bestof luck on your first, your
first foray into the Wall StreetJournal, which sounds like it
was kind of a childhood
Jamie Butters (22:48):
dream. Thanks so much, Paul. You've you guys been
such great support for me allthese years.
Kyle Mountsier (22:56):
I think that has to be his real name, the one
that Michael said before, beforeyou talk to him, I think that
has
Paul J Daly (23:01):
to be Thaddeus, Bartholomew butters. It has to
be, now that he's with walkingjournal, he has to be official
like that. He's a four name.
He's a four name, person likeJamie. The first time I ever met
him, I all of a sudden was like,I really like this guy's vibes.
And you don't know, right? Like,he's just a name in the in the
auto news that, you know what Imean. And I think he's honestly,
I think he's got Bill Pullmanvibes. You know, Bill Pullman
(23:22):
Independence Day, that's Jamiebutters. But the fact that he's
getting to go to kind of like,you know, I won't say a
childhood dream, but like whenhe started into journalism in
college, the fact that WallStreet Journal was always like,
that aspirational, you know,trying to get there is great to
see him get there. But also,like you, you kind of said this
(23:42):
when we, before we started theinterview, Kyle, that there's an
opportunity now for a deeperunderstanding of the retail
dealer to become more broadlyknown in in Wall Street Journal,
because he didn't even know muchabout it when he started at
Automotive News, and then hejust built a lot of
relationships there. So I'mlooking forward to that part of
it. I mean, he's, he's he's theguy you want on your team,
Michael Cirillo (24:03):
period. I hope he fact checks us. I mean, this
is such a big part. You guystalked a little bit about an AI
driven world. I'd like to thinkit's going to be like an AI
augmented or enhanced world, butjournalism, to your point where
we started, is going to be socritical for authenticating. I
think it's gonna it's like aweird reversal. It's like human
(24:23):
authentication will be reallyimportant in a AI, authenticated
world
Kyle Mountsier (24:30):
so wild. Well, hey look, Jamie, on behalf of
the team here at ASOTU, morethan cars and our entire
industry. Kudos to you.
Automotive news will miss you,but the Wall Street Journal
crew, I'm sure, will get thebest of what we know is possible
in retail auto if you haven'tgone to Jamie's LinkedIn,
congratulate him on the new roleand follow Him for all the stuff
that he's going to be sharingwith much more culture at the
(24:53):
Wall Street Journal. On behalfof Paul J Daly, Michael Cirillo.
And myself. Kyle mouse here. Seeyou next time here on auto
Collabs,
Unknown (25:03):
sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for
a free shot of relevant news andautomotive retail media and pop
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if you love this podcast, pleaseleave us a review and share it
with a friend. Thanks again forlistening. We'll see you next
time.
(25:35):
Welcome to Annika labs. You.
You know, one of the things that I don't think we
(00:01):
give enough credit to
Unknown (00:08):
this is auto Collabs as an
Paul J Daly (00:11):
industry, and us at more than cars, but also as an
industry, is that you needactual journalists and actual
people with actual relationshipsto generate the news that we all
talk about, right? We kind ofthe easy job, and we generate
some of it from the start. Butthere's a whole there's a whole
(00:31):
team. Team is too small a word,right? There is a cadre. There
is a battalion of automotiveindustry journalists that are
constantly out there talking tomanufacturers, suppliers,
dealers, tech companies, toactually bring the news to the
surface. And today's guest,Jamie butters has had had a big
hand in that, and will continuenow that he's moving on to Wall
(00:54):
Street Journal, yeah,
Kyle Mountsier (00:56):
I'm excited that it won, that he's moving on to
Wall Street Journal, I thinkthat that's going to be a key
play for, like, retail,automotive, to get a different
perspective into a broaderpublication. But I love what
you're saying there, and I hope,hope you can get into this
conversation with him. But it'sit. It's really interesting to
(01:16):
me that in this world of AI,like, AI still needs source
material, right? Like we stillneed to provide source material
to everything else that we'retalking about, and there still
will have to be people that areon the ground thinking about the
source material of any industry,any human connection, any
conversation. And I think Jamiebutters is great at digging up
(01:38):
source material.
Michael Cirillo (01:39):
Why don't we dig in. I gotta say, I have to
imagine the journalists aresurrounded by cork board and
like lines of yarn, becausethey're like cigarettes and like
tweed jackets with elbowpatches. Anyways, off on a
tangent. Hey guys. I hope youenjoy this episode with Jamie
(02:01):
Thaddeus, Bartholomew butters,Collabs.
Paul J Daly (02:09):
Jamie butter is my friend. It is good to have you.
I believe the first time you'veever been on this show.
Jamie Butters (02:14):
Welcome. Hey, Paul. Well, we've recorded some
we were at at name ad, yeah, Ijoined you. So unless this is a
separate show, I'm not
Paul J Daly (02:24):
even sure what show it is. It's the same team we
have. We have some shows, buteither way, big transition going
on. And from you moving fromautomotive news in the Wall
Street Journal, and like youhave this interesting
perspective on the industry, andI think you also have a very
unique place in the industry. Asthe editor for auto news for so
(02:44):
long, I think people justassociate you with the center
point of what's going on in theindustry. And so I think, like,
because there's a change beingmade, I think, like, it's
different than it's differentthan anybody else you know, so
I'm excited about it. I'm a longtime Wall Street Journal reader.
So I always joke with when we gointo the airport and stuff and
(03:04):
there's, like, a Wall StreetJournal store, I always tell
everyone I'm gonna walk in andshow everyone that I'm a
subscriber. And so tell us alittle bit about your journey in
automotive, though, because,like, your time with automotive
news, wasn't it? You werecovering automotive a long time,
for a long time, and you bring alot of that experience forward,
and you kind of have some visionfor have some vision for the
next stage of your career. SoI'd love to just unpack
Jamie Butters (03:26):
that a little bit, sure. Yeah. I mean, you're
right. I've been doing this along
Paul J Daly (03:29):
time. Wasn't an old joke, I promise, yeah. But
Jamie Butters (03:33):
no, you know, it's been really interesting,
because I started covering autosin the late 90s. You know, when
I was when my wife and I bothworked at the Lexington Herald
Leader down in central Kentucky.
Toyota had a plant nearby, and Icovered a job, one, you know,
for the Sienna minivan rollingoff the line there, and Toyota
ended up, long story short, Iended up going my first auto
(03:56):
show ended up being Tokyo in1997
Paul J Daly (04:00):
first one was Tokyo, yeah, before
Jamie Butters (04:02):
I ever went to an auto show, talk
Paul J Daly (04:04):
about going deep end, right out of the gates.
Jamie Butters (04:07):
Yo, learning the industry from Toyota was a
really different perspective,and which especially drove home
when I moved to Detroit andpeople had a little different
point of view growing up, youknow, around a really unionized
auto industry. But I learnedabout the industry, you know,
really from Toyota and itsmanufacturing processes. And
also that Tokyo 97 show was whenToyota and Honda first came out
(04:32):
with hybrids, and this was thebeginning of election 97 Yeah,
the Prius and the Honda Insightand so, and even at the time and
what I came back, and my main,you know, project that I wrote
about from the trip was, youknow, that this was a new kind
of vehicle, a new kind of powertrain. And Toyota saw it, you
(04:54):
know, this gas and electriccombination with the little
animation on the screen to showyou where your power is coming.
From and how regeneration, youknow, recharges the batteries.
You know that this was astepping stone to electric
vehicles, which, you know, we'dhardly had any, I mean, the EV
one, and then they saw that as astepping stone to hydrogen fuel
(05:14):
cell. And here I am, you know,almost 30 years later, yeah, you
know, Toyota is more than 50%hybrids, at least in the US. US
market is 8% electric, you know,one out of 12. That's not as
much as some people were talkingabout just a few years ago, but
not even it's a big differencefrom, you know, 20 years ago or
(05:36):
10 years ago. So, you know, it'smore than a million vehicles a
year, and that's an interestinggrowth curve, but these changes
take a long time, is one of thethings I've apparently
Paul J Daly (05:48):
and apparently you can't legislate your way as fast
as you would like.
Jamie Butters (05:52):
No, not if you're going to let the companies
survive as as independent, youknow, capitalist entities,
because it's just too hard tomake money on those vehicles,
you know, without a lot of a lotof support at this point. But
yeah, so I was at the HeraldLeader until 2000 the day after
the bush Gore election. We movedto Detroit. I was at the Detroit
(06:14):
Free Press for eight years,basically the whole George W
Bush years. I did take a littletime off to go to the University
of Michigan on a knight WallaceFellowship, which was fun. I got
to go to Argentina and Istanbul,really places I'd never been
before. I'd been a little toAsia and a little to Europe. I'd
(06:35):
never been to South America. I'dnever been to the Middle East.
So that was really fascinating.
That's when I started editing. Icame in as a reporter, and then
after, after the fellowship, youknow, we got, right before I
went on the fellowship, thenewspaper got sold to Gannett,
and I came back, and basicallyeverybody from my direct boss
through the chairman of theboard was different. So I had to
find my way at a new place thatI had been working for five
(07:01):
years, six years, and became theauto editor and auto as a
business editor. And then rightaround when the economy started
falling apart, I went toBloomberg and ran the auto team
there through the bankruptciesof GM and Chrysler and being,
you know, covering that for afinancial focused news
(07:24):
organization, you know, wasreally intense. Yeah, you know,
it had seemed, it's hard to evenremember at this point, but you
know, it had seemed unthinkablethat General Motors could go
bankrupt, even though theirfinances were so bad, it was
just like they were too big, itwould be too chaotic. And then
they started talking about,there's maybe this little,
(07:44):
little used clause in thebankruptcy, and we could just
sort of pull out the assets andput them into a new CO and and
so the section 363, became thegospel, and the government, you
know, managed those bankruptciesand kept the auto industry
moving really fascinating times.
(08:06):
Then you know the competitivedifference between GM and Ford,
because Ford didn't go throughthe bankruptcy and get their
balance sheet cleaned up likethat was was really fascinating.
And then in 2018 I went toautomotive news and really got
to learn more about the retailend of the business. Obviously,
automotive news doesn't justcover dealers. Covers the whole
industry, but it was somethingthat I didn't have as much
(08:30):
exposure to working for generalinterest newspapers or the
financial news wires. So thatwas really educational for me.
And now next month, I'll go tothe Wall Street Journal, and it
was placed that really inspiredmy desire to get into business
journalism. It was really thegold standard. I think it's
(08:50):
gotten more. Tell me aboutjournalism. Tell me about that.
You know, like the
Paul J Daly (08:55):
inspiration back, like, when did you, you know,
hold that, that addition up inyour hands, and with that the
way the print feels, and yousay, one day Wall Street
Journal,
Jamie Butters (09:06):
you know, I actually, I never, didn't know.
I really, ever thought I wouldmake it there. But when I was,
when I was in college, you know,you they had, they'd have
discounted subscriptions to thenewspapers. You'd see them
littered all up and down tocollege neighborhoods. Everyone
subscribe, and then they don'talways get up early in the
morning to go bring them in.
But, you know, yeah, talk about,I mean, back in the print era,
and I grew up in theirnewspapers before the interwebs,
(09:28):
and it was so great because theyhad the two new summary columns.
They had the two, you know, mainheavy stories, the the leaders,
and then the a head, the featurestory at the you know, that
started around the middle ofpage one. Always was a super
entertaining read. I love the,you know, the predictability of
(09:49):
the format and the quality, youknow, of what was in there. It's
just like nobody could do whatthey did. Well, then a short
time later, you know, a couple,a few people from the. Uh, the
Wall Street Journal broke offand created Bloomberg News, and
with the backing of the richestman in New York, built a quite
an estimable news army
Paul J Daly (10:09):
that'll help.
Always helps.
Jamie Butters (10:11):
Yep, yeah. So, you know, the the journal,
Reuters and Bloomberg are sortof probably the biggest, you
know, Global Business Newsentities and, and, yeah, the the
Wall Street Journal has justalways been, it's, it's such an
iconic place. I mean, we talkabout, you know, you look at the
biggest measure of the market,or, you know, a lot of people
(10:33):
even use it as measure of theeconomy, but the Dow Jones
Industrial Average, I mean, thatwas created by Dow and Jones.
And, you know, Dow Jones is thename of the of the company that
owns the Wall Street Journal,and that is owned by News Corp.
So it's, it's complicated, but,but it wasn't back in the day,
right? Yeah, it wasn't,
Paul J Daly (10:52):
it wasn't back in the day. And, you know, it's
more complicated. So I think soa lot of our audience is
definitely the dealer side. And,you know, automotive news is a
staple. I, you know, I've justbeen in and out of hundreds and
hundreds of dealerships in mycareer, and always see a copy of
automotive news laying on thetable in the GMs office or the
owner's office. But I do alsosee a lot of Wall Street Journal
(11:15):
and I had one very specific andprobably the first time I became
a Wall Street Journal readersbecause I was with, I was in
Greg CEO senior office and theCEO water group. He's, he's
broken through the top 50 now,and he's on a streak. And this
was, I mean, this had to be over10 years ago. And he gave me his
copy of Wall Street Journal, andhe said, he said, Paul, I read
(11:38):
this every single morning, andit is one of the ways that I've
been able to be as successful asI am. He goes because it's
important that you know what'sgoing on, not just here, but
around you in the rest of theecosystem. And he gave me a
copy. Said you absolutely haveto subscribe. From that day, I
went home and I subscribeddigital edition, and I've been
(11:58):
I've paid attention ever since,and and honestly, I have to say
that the the type of journalismthat Wall Street Journal is will
like has given to me over thelast years, especially through
all the tumultuous years of thepandemic and all of the social
unrest and political unrest andall the things that have been
going on there, there is, thereis a bit of solace in the Wall
(12:21):
Street Journal that I felt likeI could, I could read and not
walk away like riled up, I guessI should say. And so, so it's,
it's always been an interestingthing. And like dealers I have
known, like Mr. Cioca, who relyon it, you know, for not just
the retail auto news, because,without a doubt, like, they
don't talk that much aboutdealers. And when I do see a
(12:45):
dealer in there, it's like myfriend Earl Stewart from Earl
Stewart Toyota, what used to befrequently quoted in The Wall
Street Journal, because he's gotsuch unique perspective on the
industry. You have like I'velearned so much from you and
from Dan shine over the years,understanding the different
components that it takes tocover the industry. I think a
lot of our audience thinks of itretailers first, but then the
(13:07):
understand the OEM is obviouslyan important part, suppliers, a
very important part thepolitical climate, or the
geopolitical climate, and what'shappening on vehicles, I think,
has just come to the forefrontmore than it ever has in the
last three years because ofChinese EVs and what has been
going on, you know, in thosepandemic years, I feel like, you
know, we kind of got caughtsleeping a little bit, tried to
(13:29):
play catch up. But obviouslythat's a major component to what
is going to be happening on thefront lines of the dealership.
So when you go there and thetype like, tell us about the
type of reporting you're goingto be doing and why retail auto
dealers should be payingattention to the coverage.
Jamie Butters (13:45):
Yeah. I mean, Mr.
Ciako is right, and it's good ofyou to take his advice, right? I
mean, automotive news isabsolutely essential. I think
anybody at any stage in anautomotive career needs to be
reading Automotive News, whetheryou're a beginning engineer or
accountant at a supplier or anautomaker, or you're, you know,
honestly, even, you know, Ithink a service tech, you know,
(14:06):
any sales person should knowmore about what's going on in
the industry than what theirboss is telling them they need
to do. Yeah,
Paul J Daly (14:14):
I would say anybody, anybody that one has an
aspiration to continue to growin the industry,
Jamie Butters (14:19):
we'll put it there right and then. But beyond
that, you know, it's not justenough to know everything
happening in your industry. Youneed more of that outside
context. You know, there's onlyso much about the global economy
or financial markets or even,you know, the Federal Reserve
that automotive news can getinto. But you know, somebody
like the Wall Street Journalwith teams around the globe. You
(14:42):
know, really, you know, topexperts covering, you know,
finance and economics and otherand you see parallels in other
industries, some things that aresimilar, some things that are
different. And it's great toread, you know, 1000 word, 3000
word story that takes you deepinto a company in. An industry
you wouldn't necessarily readabout normally, but you can read
(15:03):
that say, oh, yeah, that's likewhat we went through with cyber
attack. That's what we wentthrough with our generational
employees trying to communicateto millennials and Gen Z, you
know, and and there are lessonsto be learned, and that
perspective that comes fromother, you know, high level news
outlets, you know, and in thejournal, I think is, is one of
(15:26):
the highest Did I answer yourquestion, or did I do something?
But, but those,
Paul J Daly (15:34):
I think, I think you answer
Jamie Butters (15:35):
strongly about it. It's so important. You know,
no one, and you shouldn't justread the Wall Street Journal,
right? You should get a varietyinputs and information from a
variety of sources so you can,you know, weigh way a point of
view against another, you know,hold each other accountable. You
know, sometimes everybody getsit wrong. You know, what we try
(15:56):
to have in the fourth estate,you know, sort of a self
correcting mechanism, you know,if, if the Wall Street Journal
writes something, and then theNew York Times writes something
that conflicts with it, youknow, we're going to prosecute,
we're going to dig in and try tosee, you know, who's right, or
how much of it's right, is theremore nuance? Yeah. And
hopefully, you know thatcompetition draws everybody to
the same, you know, conclusions,but along the way, it's always
(16:19):
good to get multipleperspectives.
Paul J Daly (16:21):
You know, we're in in this seismic shift right now
of technology and writing ingeneral, because of the
emergence of, you know, AI andgenerative AI, and now, you
know, AI, who is doing that, isdoing research, deep research
agents that are browsing theweb. It's obviously upending
just about every industry, but Ifeel like the news industry is
(16:45):
toward the front of the pack, asfar as the one that is being
forced to have to, like, evolveand change and figuring out how
is how, how are the humans goingto remain important moving
forward in this world whereeveryone's trying to, like, just
deploy, I don't know. Let's justbe honest. Like, people try to
deploy fast technology to get amediocre response right, because
(17:09):
they deploy the technology fastand the and like, how do we, how
do we move forward as a newsindustry in this world where
this is people are able to getthese fast answers that they
maybe don't vet fully. It'scomplex question answering.
Yeah, no. I mean, it's we haveleft, but we could do a whole
hour on this.
Jamie Butters (17:28):
I mean, it's challenging for news consumers,
whatever you know they're tryingto learn about. But I think you
know there is, there'sdefinitely value in in the trust
that the readers can have in abrand like the Wall Street
Journal, New York Times,automotive news, etc, and but
(17:49):
also it's there's no substitutefor the actual reporting. I
mean, AI can give you an answer.
You can spit anything intoGoogle or Siri, and they'll give
you an answer. And they're doingthe best they can, but all they
can use is the informationthat's already been published by
somebody, and that has to startwith reporters on the ground,
you know, editors and reporters,journalists making connections
(18:11):
between, you know, one policyand another, or one trend and
another. You know, that's wherethe you know, you have to go out
and talk to the dealers, talk tothe executives, talk to the
analysts, you know. So it isn'tjust analyst reports and press
releases that are being digestedby an AI bot. You know, the
humans have to, maybe they usethose AI tools sometimes, but
(18:34):
they have to be the ones, youknow, deciding kind of, you know
what's news, and why is it news?
You know what people can get thenews. They can get the
information. What did GM reportin its earnings last week? But
it's you know, why? Why were theearnings down? And how did the
tariffs affect the earnings? Andwhat does the company have to
(18:56):
say about how they're movingforward? What do other people
have to say about it? Howconfident are the dealers? And
it's the journalists who have togo out and ask those questions,
get the good answers fromtrusted, you know, reliable
sources. You know data sourcesand the dealers themselves,
dealer, you know reliable peopleon the ground who will tell you
what's going on. You know,that's what we can provide. And
(19:17):
I feel like that's our bestdefense against AI is to have
the human intelligence, thehuman relations, and relay those
in a, you know, hopefully in acompelling, you know,
storytelling way.
Paul J Daly (19:31):
I also feel like sentiment, control is something
that, and I'll say control, butlike, I mean keeping it on the
rails, right? Because a lot oftimes you have this, like
ambitious, I'll call itambitious sentiment that comes
across from some people in thenews industry and, like, not
getting political, but whateveryou believe, whatever your
beliefs are, right, there is athere's no shortage of
(19:53):
passionate sentiment that comesalongside the facts. And so I
think that measured down theline, humans who. People who are
saying, we're reporting thefacts, we're asking the
question, we're building, theconnections, really, these are
like harbingers of trust that weneed, and I think we'll continue
to need, as people start tobelieve less and less of what
they see
Jamie Butters (20:12):
with AI, with AI in that front too. You're right.
I mean, the it's it's amazing,the things you see already on
social media, and that looks soreal, or so nearly real, you
know, you can believe them ifyou want to. You can kind of
believe them if you want to.
Maybe it's just a specialeffect, you know, on a real
person. But it's not going to belong before they they will just
(20:35):
look so real, and you're goingto have to have some provenance,
you know, whether you say I cantrust this video, because it
literally is coming fromwhitehouse.gov, right? That's
how I believe it's thepresident, or it's coming from,
you know, Fox News. It's comingfrom CBS. It's gonna, you know,
it's some, somebody that we knowis telling us they vetted it and
(20:57):
that it's real. But all theother stuff you just see shared
around on, you know, Twitter andInstagram is going to have a
higher and higher propensity tobe fake.
Paul J Daly (21:08):
Yeah. So last question, because we only have
about a minute left, where canwe see and read and pay
attention to your work movingforward, what exactly you're
going to be doing and where canwe see your work?
Jamie Butters (21:21):
Yeah, well, you know, wsj.com is our, is our
main platform, if you go autos,is not the biggest part of the
Wall Street Journal anymore. Itwas maybe 30 years ago. Was very
big part. It's a little lessnow. But if you, if you look in
across the top, there'll betabs, you know, politics and
(21:45):
world, and one is business, andyou drop down and there's an
auto you can always see, youknow, there's always a handful
of stories, story or three. Andyou know, that's where we'll be
feeding the beast. I'll have sixreporters starting out, and two
in Detroit, two in New York andtwo in Chicago, covering
(22:05):
manufacturing. So I'll be overautos and manufacturing. Look
forward to really having thisgreat big stage to tell auto
stories, but especially after,you know, my six and a half
years at a n sharing some of theinsights that I've gleaned about
(22:28):
the retail business. You know,with the broader Wall Street
Journal audience, I thinkthey're going to find this
industry, that part of theindustry, as fascinating as I
do.
Paul J Daly (22:37):
Yeah, well, I hope so. Jamie, it's been a pleasure
to spend some time with youtoday. Thanks for giving us some
time. And best, time, and bestof luck on your first, your
first foray into the Wall StreetJournal, which sounds like it
was kind of a childhood
Jamie Butters (22:48):
dream. Thanks so much, Paul. You've you guys been
such great support for me allthese years.
Kyle Mountsier (22:56):
I think that has to be his real name, the one
that Michael said before, beforeyou talk to him, I think that
has
Paul J Daly (23:01):
to be Thaddeus, Bartholomew butters. It has to
be, now that he's with walkingjournal, he has to be official
like that. He's a four name.
He's a four name, person likeJamie. The first time I ever met
him, I all of a sudden was like,I really like this guy's vibes.
And you don't know, right? Like,he's just a name in the in the
auto news that, you know what Imean. And I think he's honestly,
I think he's got Bill Pullmanvibes. You know, Bill Pullman
(23:22):
Independence Day, that's Jamiebutters. But the fact that he's
getting to go to kind of like,you know, I won't say a
childhood dream, but like whenhe started into journalism in
college, the fact that WallStreet Journal was always like,
that aspirational, you know,trying to get there is great to
see him get there. But also,like you, you kind of said this
(23:42):
when we, before we started theinterview, Kyle, that there's an
opportunity now for a deeperunderstanding of the retail
dealer to become more broadlyknown in in Wall Street Journal,
because he didn't even know muchabout it when he started at
Automotive News, and then hejust built a lot of
relationships there. So I'mlooking forward to that part of
it. I mean, he's, he's he's theguy you want on your team,
Michael Cirillo (24:03):
period. I hope he fact checks us. I mean, this
is such a big part. You guystalked a little bit about an AI
driven world. I'd like to thinkit's going to be like an AI
augmented or enhanced world, butjournalism, to your point where
we started, is going to be socritical for authenticating. I
think it's gonna it's like aweird reversal. It's like human
(24:23):
authentication will be reallyimportant in a AI, authenticated
world
Kyle Mountsier (24:30):
so wild. Well, hey look, Jamie, on behalf of
the team here at ASOTU, morethan cars and our entire
industry. Kudos to you.
Automotive news will miss you,but the Wall Street Journal
crew, I'm sure, will get thebest of what we know is possible
in retail auto if you haven'tgone to Jamie's LinkedIn,
congratulate him on the new roleand follow Him for all the stuff
that he's going to be sharingwith much more culture at the
(24:53):
Wall Street Journal. On behalfof Paul J Daly, Michael Cirillo.
And myself. Kyle mouse here. Seeyou next time here on auto
Collabs,
Unknown (25:03):
sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for
a free shot of relevant news andautomotive retail media and pop
culture. You can get itnow@asotu.com that's asotu.com
if you love this podcast, pleaseleave us a review and share it
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