August 28, 2025 • 24 mins
Today Shawn has Brandon Cooper on the #AutomationTechTalk livestream to talk about what he's learning in his travels.
Note: There is no show planned for Friday or Monday.
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Read the transcript on The Automation Blog: (automatically generated)
Shawn Tierney (Host): Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Automation Tech Talk lunchtime edition. You may hear some background noise because today, I have a special guest on. It's Brandon Cooper, who you probably all know has written a bunch of articles over at the automation blog. And I've actually had Brandon on the automation podcast back on episode one zero six.
That was in 2022. Brandon, thank you for, agreeing to share your lunch with us.
Brandon Cooper (Guest): Hey. Glad to do it. Glad to do it. Thanks for
Shawn Tierney (Host): having me. You're well. Thank you. And I was telling, Brandon in the preshow, he's actually sitting in his backyard in Louisiana, and it just sounds awesome. He's got birds chirping, and it sounds so great.
It's like, man, that's so relaxing. But in any case, let me see. Brandon, you are
Brandon Cooper (Guest): eighties this week, so it's almost fall in Louisiana.
Shawn Tierney (Host): Yeah. Eighties. We got into the seventies. I had to put the heat on this morning because it was in the sixties, which is which is kinda odd for late August. How about you guys?
Is this normal for late August? Or
Brandon Cooper (Guest): not really. We usually don't hit get into the eighties until, sometime in September, but we get we got a a lower temp week this week, so it's it's nice.
Shawn Tierney (Host): Yeah. I'm I'm not complaining at all. So you are a senior process control engineer, and, I know you from your what you do with POCs, but you also work on a lot of DCS systems or what would classically be called the DCS. And like I said, he Brandon was on, in episode one zero six. He's written several articles on Rockwell and Siemens.
His latest one was on, simulating e threes, I think, for migration purposes. And he also wrote two articles recently on the things I've learned because, change. And I don't want you to give away the actual companies you worked for, but describe your old old role and the new role you've been doing now to give the audience some perspective on that's kinda how you change roles.
Brandon Cooper (Guest): So I guess for twenty two years, starting at 19 years old, I joined on as basically a process control type technician and then moved up to to a process control engineer and then a senior engineer later, you know, working in in specific specific facilities, you know, doing the day to day program and then graphics and troubleshooting and working with operations at a facility, which is also, you know, being on call twenty four seven for for all those twenty two years. So, it was it was great. I learned a lot and, helped me get to the next step, I guess. So, three years ago, I had the opportunity to take a job, where we travel around and and do things in different sites. And there's, like a like a, capital project type, role.
And that's been really good. I've, I've enjoyed it, learned a lot more, and just a a a different role. Kids are kinda grown now, so they didn't need me at home as much anymore. So just a lot of things fell into place about the same time and, decided to do something a little different. So
Shawn Tierney (Host): Yeah. I could definitely see the appeal to that. So Brandon works. We're not gonna give him the company names. Brandon works for re a major Fortune 500 company.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Automation Tech
Talk lunchtime edition.
You may hear some background noise because today,
I have a special guest on. It's Brandon
Cooper, who you probably all know has written
a bunch of articles over at the automation
blog. And I've actually had Brandon
on the automation podcast back on episode one
zero six. That was in 2022.
(00:21):
Brandon,
thank you for, agreeing to share your lunch
with us.
Hey. Glad to do it. Glad to do
it. Thanks for having me. You're well. Thank
you. And I was telling, Brandon in the
preshow, he's actually sitting in his backyard in
Louisiana,
and it just sounds awesome. He's got birds
chirping, and it sounds so great. It's like,
man, that's so relaxing.
(00:43):
But in any case,
let me see. Brandon, you are eighties this
week, so it's almost fall in Louisiana.
Yeah.
Eighties. We got into the seventies.
I had to put the heat on this
morning because it was in the sixties, which
is which is kinda odd for late August.
How about you guys? Is this normal for
late August? Or
(01:05):
not really. We usually don't hit get into
the eighties until,
sometime in September, but we get we got
a
a lower temp week this week, so it's
it's nice.
Yeah. I'm I'm not complaining at all.
So you are a senior process control
engineer,
and,
(01:25):
I know you from your what you do
with POCs, but you also work on a
lot of DCS systems or what would classically
be called the DCS.
And like I said, he Brandon was on,
in episode one zero six. He's written several
articles
on Rockwell and Siemens. His latest one was
on,
simulating e threes, I think,
(01:45):
for migration purposes.
And he also wrote two articles recently on
the things I've learned because,
change. And I don't want you to give
away
the actual companies you worked for, but describe
your old old role and the new role
you've been doing now to give the audience
some perspective on that's kinda how you change
roles.
(02:07):
So
I guess for twenty two years,
starting at 19 years old, I joined on
as basically
a process control type technician
and then moved up to
to a
process control engineer and then a senior engineer
later,
you know, working in in specific
(02:28):
specific facilities,
you know, doing the day to day program
and then graphics and troubleshooting
and working with operations at a facility,
which is also, you know, being on call
twenty four seven for for all those twenty
two years. So,
it was it was great. I learned a
lot and, helped me get to the next
(02:48):
step, I guess. So,
three years ago, I had the opportunity to
take a job,
where
we travel around and and do things in
different sites. And there's, like a like
a, capital project type,
role.
And
(03:09):
that's been really good. I've,
I've enjoyed it, learned a lot more, and
just a a a different role.
Kids are kinda grown now, so they didn't
need me at home as much anymore. So
just a lot of things fell into place
about the same time
and,
decided to do something a little different. So
Yeah. I could definitely see the appeal to
(03:29):
that. So Brandon works. We're not gonna give
him the company names. Brandon works for re
a major Fortune 500 company. And those companies,
they have big manufacturing
facilities throughout the world,
and they usually have their own people, their
own techs and electricians on-site. But Brandon gets
to come in and do the big projects,
and,
that sounds it sounds like the fun stuff,
(03:50):
but it could also be, like, mission critical
stuff. And so you're traveling a lot. You're
not reporting to the same place every day.
You're reporting
do you often like, every month, are you
somewhere new?
I tend to get on projects. You know,
I might handle three or four projects at
a time, different sites and probably different phases
(04:11):
of those projects. So one might be scoping
out, you know, phase one and and,
getting together what we might be,
putting together a scope and and deliverables and
that sort of thing. And then the other
project might be an execution next month. So,
(04:31):
and and that might be from Florida to
to Oregon. So
traveling a lot
for certain periods and, you know,
different phase like I said, different project phases
require
different attention.
(04:52):
You know, I wanna ask you about so
from a PLC background, I've never used Emerson's
delta v, but I believe you've used it
quite a bit, right, at different places?
Yeah. I've I've used Emerson some over the
years. I've,
not used their PLCs a whole lot. They're
they're,
Delta v,
(05:13):
DCS system. I have I have,
used some.
So you were telling me recently, and I
know you're not a representative for Emerson.
We've had Emerson on the show. We constantly
invite Emerson to come back on the show
to talk about these products. But just as
somebody in the field there, you've heard about
something new coming out, and it's called the
(05:34):
Delta v I q.
Again, this is all just, you know, customer
impressions,
but can you share your impressions of what
you're hearing
through the grapevine about this new product that's
coming?
Yeah. So,
Emerson,
is kinda I believe they're
doing a really good job cutting edge, trying
(05:55):
to,
jump on the ether you know, Ethernet bandwagon
of,
I call it bandwagon. It's, you know, Ethernet
protocols
all the way through the system.
So that's,
you know, virtualization
for for
servers and op systems
as well as their controllers. Their new IQ
(06:17):
controller that I believe is coming out in
version 16
that's supposed to be released later this year.
The IQ can be
is a is a totally virtual controller
that has, you know, double the capacity of
their previous,
PK controller,
3,000
BSTs, I believe. Wow.
(06:37):
I think you can have 13
IQ controllers on a on a
virtual system, so that's, like, 30,000 DST points.
Wow. Quite quite impressive
technology there.
You know, that's using charms I owe,
on their network. And then, you know, they're
(06:57):
also playing in the instrumentation world with the,
Ethernet APL. So, you know, theoretically, in a
few years, there's still there's still a lot
of things out there that are coming and
and all that, but you could have a
totally virtual system, you know,
totally Ethernet system
from instrumentation all the way to your controllers
(07:19):
to your your servers and workstations and everything.
So I I think that's,
I I think that's
on its way.
Yeah. I think on the Rockwell side,
we saw
Ethernet was going to really be the thing.
Right? Right. And I I think that was
we saw this become and I recently talked
(07:40):
about the generations of control logics and or
compact logics, I should say.
And with the
53,
35 e. Right? So the l 35
e and the l 32 e, you know,
those products also came out with an l
32 c and an l 35 c.
And, you know, the there was a l
(08:01):
31 serial, which
I never knew anybody who was happy with
that because of the speed. It's slow. Right?
Because, the communications is slow. But in any
case,
when those products launched, right, I think it
was I'd have to go back to the
automation plot, but I think we're talking, like,
two thousand four, two thousand five.
What really became obvious is that the 35
(08:22):
e and the 33 e outsold the the
c's
by a ton. Right? It's like the age
of Ethernet is here, and ETH and IO
is here because nobody's buying
the, control net version.
And so, you know, when the fifty three
seventies came out, they were a 100% Ethernet.
And so I think we can go back
twenty years
and say, Ethernet has won with SteelBus, and,
(08:44):
of course, there's different protocols we have. Ethernet.
We have a trophy net. We just had
a prophylnet expert on talking about prophylnet. We've
had multiple prophylnet experts on talking it. And,
you know, there's other you know, you still
have Modbus TCP, which I know
I just talked to Schneider. Even their latest
product supports, Ethan IP and Modbus TCP. Right?
(09:05):
Right. So, you know, there's that legacy as
well,
which is great because, you know, I I
don't like it when a vendor stops supporting
the older stuff. Right? It's nice to have
that. I don't know how I don't you
know, this is a brand new product from
Schneider. So I you know, it's it's a
matter of fact, I got a box of
them right here because the packing slip I'm
I'm working on doing a,
(09:27):
show and tell on a brand new next
gen IO. And, I mean, this stuff is
truly next gen. It's just not a a
a a, you know, paintbrush,
you know, to make it look new. But
in any case,
with Ethernet
having one, there's still topology
challenges with our standard Ethernet. Right? And I
think that's where mingle pair Ethernet
(09:49):
and Ethernet APL
can really
take us to the next level.
And then, you know, aside from that, we
also have the virtualization
in where we see that.
And, you know, I mean, in your in
your business, not to not to talk about
company specifics,
where do you think,
you know, virtualized POCs would work and where
(10:11):
they wouldn't work?
Right?
I mean, I I can definitely see some
applications where they wouldn't be a good fit.
Yeah. Certainly,
right off the top of my head, you
know, safety systems, high speed,
critical,
guarding, anything like that, I I would certainly
(10:32):
say you won't see that
anytime anytime soon or if ever.
But I think overall, process
control systems,
I don't see any reason that, you know,
in the next five to ten years, you
won't see that largely implemented
because
(10:55):
the speed and the capability
and
everything you're doing in a in a virtual
system,
you're relying on it already for all your
servers and op stations and things like that.
The controller living in that same same system,
is probably in a better environment than it
was in the field. So
(11:15):
while it might be slow to adopt, it's
certainly a viable solution,
in the near in the very near future,
I believe.
Yeah. You bring up a good point too
because
with
a lot of process control systems,
you can't operate the system without your SCADA
or HMI or,
user interface. Right? There's not a lot of
(11:38):
discrete standalone parts that are totally separate. So
if your main console and all your screens
go down,
you know, you can't operate it. And so
in a lot of those cases, the PLC
or DCS,
the the main brain is installed in the
control room.
And so if you're installing the brains in
the control room anyways,
(12:00):
can it be virtualized on some hardened redundant
hardware
versus, like, we do with SCADA today, versus
being a brick. And I think the advantage,
though, of having a hardware PLC is
you can swap it out. The PLC dies,
you swap it out.
Where if you go with a virtual PLC,
now you're relying on the computer IT people
(12:22):
to keep that robust and and,
and up and running. I I think there's
probably quite a few, stand alone, and I
don't know if you have any examples, but
I'm sure there's a lot of stand alone
applications in your your facilities and others you've
worked in
where
you don't you don't wanna you know, you
if you lose a connection to the main
control room, you don't wanna stop. You don't
(12:44):
wanna stop production, whether it be palletizing,
material handling,
you know, shrink wrapping. I mean, I'm sure
there's a lot of things that are stand
alone. Like, if the whole front office went
away,
this machine still has to run.
Am I do you think I'm right about
that?
Yeah. Absolutely. You've always gotta have those,
(13:04):
critical systems that are that are isolated and
have to be you know,
whether they can talk to the rest of
the world or not, they they have to
run. So
there will always be
places that you would you would
stay away from,
going totally virtual, I believe. But,
(13:25):
I believe the overall system, I don't I
don't see it as a
problem to go in that direction.
How about Ethan at APL? What are you
seeing on that side? What do you think
the promise is there
from the process perspective?
So I guess
what they're calling gen one,
it has been out several years.
(13:47):
I believe interest Houser is leading that
quite a bit. And,
along with a lot of other companies, Emerson,
a lot of other companies are are are
playing in that world, and it's developing. I
think
there's some instrumentation out there, but I don't
know
that there's enough
(14:07):
instrumentation
released compatible
to
to say
you know,
do a whole facility at the moment. Now
I have
read about some facilities,
I believe, in South America that have gone
in that direction
and,
(14:28):
you know, are are making it work, but
I don't know that it's all the way
there. I I believe,
I like I say, I can't speak for
Emerson or anybody else, but I I I
know that they're looking at some,
some gen two,
opportunities where,
you know, getting away from the the gen
one, which was like switches with,
(14:50):
APLs, Ethernet switches that had, you know, 20
devices plugged into it. You know, they're looking
at more of a one to one
Ethernet APL,
charm or or connection that,
would provide a little more robustness than than
having a single
(15:11):
single point of failure for 20 plus devices.
You know, I I wanna throw out an
invite too to whether it's Emerson or Hintra
Sousa. We've had them both on the show,
the automation podcast.
Love to put an invite out there for
them to give us an update on Ethan
and APL. We've, followed it quite closely, especially
when I was doing the news,
(15:32):
just all the different people who jumped on
it, all the big players. I mean, pretty
much everybody's jumped on to it now, but
we'd love to get those vendors on to
tell us what they're doing in that area
and,
you know, and give us more information about
that. Is there anything,
Brandon,
that you came across that was like an,
oh,
(15:52):
moment?
Like, whether it was programming a POC or
a DCS system, you know, think back over
the last month or two. Any tips you
can share with the audience that maybe,
you know, you found a version, didn't do
something, or there was a feature in this
that did something extra.
Any any knowledge or or even if it
has to do with your life of traveling,
(16:12):
any tips you have for Mhmm. The audience
from going from, like, being landlocked to being
this world traveler?
That's a wide open question.
So you mentioned protocols a minute ago and
and my bus,
TCP
and and Ethernet IP and all those things.
(16:36):
Whether it's Delta v, whether it's Honeywell,
whether it's Rockwell. You know?
What I'm finding is that every time I
go to scope something,
there's
10 different ways that I can topology wise
that I can make this work.
And trying to come up with standards and,
(16:58):
repeat ways of doing things that are you
know?
There might be three ways that are all
good options, but trying to figure out the
best way,
whether that's,
like I say, every vendor's got the got
the capabilities to talk both. Say, say, let's
just pick on Honeywell for a minute and
their EIM module, their c 300 to EIM
(17:21):
module. You know, it'll talk Modbus TCP
or Ethernet IP depending on you gotta flash
it one way or the other, and you
can't do both at the same time. But,
you
you know, looking at those devices and trying
to figure out the best way to
to handle, you know, a third party integration
or
(17:43):
a smart MCC,
another p you know, another PLC, you know,
whatever the case, you there's just so many
options and so many protocols, PRP, DLR.
Yep. You you name it. There there's lots
of options for everything you do, and,
just trying to come up with those standards
says,
(18:05):
helps
to
not have to to to reinvent that wheel
the next time.
You know, I know Rockwell, and I think
all vendors do this, but I'm more familiar
with the Rockwell
examples where they have these,
they're they almost look like graph paper, but
they're example
configurations.
And I used to, love to use those
(18:27):
to show people, you know, this is what
you would do in this situation. So if
you had a serval application,
here's the products that are recommended. If you
have, you know, lots of VFDs, here's the
networks recommended.
Here's the topology recommended.
And I think I think it's a good
one vendors do that because, like you said,
they all have so many options.
(18:47):
Right? And and,
you know, guidance. You know, you need to
give guidance. Like, Siemens has they have basic
modules. They have standard modules. They have five
functionality modules. Right? And it's like, alright. So
do I is it just price? I mean,
why am I choosing one or the other?
Right? And so having that type of guidance
from the vendors is always
(19:08):
extremely helpful. I think, you know, for me,
if I had to choose between Ethernet IP
and Modbus CCP, I'd pick Ethernet IP because,
you know, it's a generational
difference in,
development. Right? So you got Modbus, Modbus TCP
when it came out versus Ethernet IP, PROFINET,
and the other the other big guys up
there on the the field buses.
(19:30):
But
then you could limit yourself something because,
a lot of old products don't talk, Ethan
and IP. And, you know, a lot of
vendors, they like the openness of Modbus TCP.
So, you know, they can just implement it
without too much
hassle. You know? Don't have to join a
group. Don't have to get a spec and
so on.
So, yeah, that's a good point. Hey.
(19:52):
I may be traveling out to out across
the country here in a couple months for
a sponsored engagement.
And I wanted to ask you,
any advice for somebody who hasn't been traveling
a lot,
since you're traveling an awful lot? What would
be, like, your top couple of things? And
I I do have one of the ones
you recommended. I do have TSA PreCheck,
(20:15):
which I am a big fan of. This
is something my wife talked me into getting,
and I love the shorter lines. I love
leaving my shoes on.
I love all of that. But,
other thoughts other thoughts that you have on,
on just making making the traveling and since
you're traveling so much, what would you recommend?
(20:38):
So, yeah, what I talked about several things
as far in the articles, but,
I would say in the article number two,
probably,
taking care of yourself is a big thing
for,
trying to eat eat healthy, exercise a little
bit, things like that when you're on the
road.
When you do it week after week after
(20:58):
week, the choices you make will either
benefit your life or take their toll. And,
I guess I've learned some of those things
the hard way.
And then and then also, you know, just
on the on the upside of traveling a
lot, hey. Collect your points and,
you know, get those you know,
it's your choice. I'm not advocating for Hilton
(21:20):
or Holiday Inn or or Marriott, any of
them. But you pick your,
you pick your,
where you like to stay and and collect
those points and then, use them later on
your personal vacation.
Yeah. That's a good point. It's it makes
sense to choose one
company to get all your points with because
I know a lot of people have taken
personal
(21:41):
vacations for free because they get so many
points for work. So that's,
that's really good advice.
Before we before we close out the show,
I did wanna let everybody know there's no
show tomorrow,
and there's no show Monday because Monday in
The United States is a holiday. So we'll
be back on Tuesday.
I got another guest on who's gonna talk
(22:01):
about a totally different subject, so I'm I'm
hoping, you guys will enjoy that episode as
well. Of course, I hope you enjoyed our
time we spent with, Brandon, and I'm really
wish I was in his backyard right now
with all the birds and and and and,
it just seems like such a
of a quiet, peaceful place. But with that,
Brandon,
we're coming to the end of the show.
Was there anything else,
(22:23):
you wanted to share with the audience,
before we close out the show?
Not that I can think of, but, hey,
I've been listening to your your your lunchtime
show here lately, and, enjoy it. And I
appreciate you doing it because it's a it's
a
good way to get tips while you're eating
your lunch. So appreciate it, Sean.
Well, I thank you, Brandon. And I I
(22:44):
would like to ask everybody if there's something
you wanna know or see. We did have
somebody say, how do I connect the factory
talk view to a micro 800?
So I'll be trying to do that next
week. I think before I do that, I'm
gonna roll in how to convert. I think
you and I both wrote articles on this,
but I'm gonna
roll in how to convert a Micrologix product
project to a micro 800
because
(23:05):
in my factory talk to you course, I
I do everything but micro 800
just because of time. It was just so
so time consuming creating a course that just
for time, I left it out. But I'm
figuring, hey. I might as well add it
now because I'm adding I'm always adding lessons
to my courses. So, in any case, if
we wanna if we wanna see the courses
I have available, the automationschool.com.
(23:25):
With that, Brandon, thank you so much, not
only for coming on the lunchtime show today,
but for all the articles you've shared with
the audience over at the automation blog.
And, again, if you have any tips or
ideas,
we'd love to have you submit them or
even come back on the show and share
with the audience.
Sounds good. Thank you, Sean.
Alright. And I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody
(23:46):
on the live stream. Hope you guys have
a great day. Again, I'm not on tomorrow
or Monday, so have a great weekend. And
until next time, I should probably go full
screen.
That's full screen of Brandon. That's not full
screen of me.
Let me try that again. Until next time,
my friends.
Peace.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Automation Tech
Talk lunchtime edition.
You may hear some background noise because today,
I have a special guest on. It's Brandon
Cooper, who you probably all know has written
a bunch of articles over at the automation
blog. And I've actually had Brandon
on the automation podcast back on episode one
zero six. That was in 2022.
(00:21):
Brandon,
thank you for, agreeing to share your lunch
with us.
Hey. Glad to do it. Glad to do
it. Thanks for having me. You're well. Thank
you. And I was telling, Brandon in the
preshow, he's actually sitting in his backyard in
Louisiana,
and it just sounds awesome. He's got birds
chirping, and it sounds so great. It's like,
man, that's so relaxing.
(00:43):
But in any case,
let me see. Brandon, you are eighties this
week, so it's almost fall in Louisiana.
Yeah.
Eighties. We got into the seventies.
I had to put the heat on this
morning because it was in the sixties, which
is which is kinda odd for late August.
How about you guys? Is this normal for
late August? Or
(01:05):
not really. We usually don't hit get into
the eighties until,
sometime in September, but we get we got
a
a lower temp week this week, so it's
it's nice.
Yeah. I'm I'm not complaining at all.
So you are a senior process control
engineer,
and,
(01:25):
I know you from your what you do
with POCs, but you also work on a
lot of DCS systems or what would classically
be called the DCS.
And like I said, he Brandon was on,
in episode one zero six. He's written several
articles
on Rockwell and Siemens. His latest one was
on,
simulating e threes, I think,
(01:45):
for migration purposes.
And he also wrote two articles recently on
the things I've learned because,
change. And I don't want you to give
away
the actual companies you worked for, but describe
your old old role and the new role
you've been doing now to give the audience
some perspective on that's kinda how you change
roles.
(02:07):
So
I guess for twenty two years,
starting at 19 years old, I joined on
as basically
a process control type technician
and then moved up to
to a
process control engineer and then a senior engineer
later,
you know, working in in specific
(02:28):
specific facilities,
you know, doing the day to day program
and then graphics and troubleshooting
and working with operations at a facility,
which is also, you know, being on call
twenty four seven for for all those twenty
two years. So,
it was it was great. I learned a
lot and, helped me get to the next
(02:48):
step, I guess. So,
three years ago, I had the opportunity to
take a job,
where
we travel around and and do things in
different sites. And there's, like a like
a, capital project type,
role.
And
(03:09):
that's been really good. I've,
I've enjoyed it, learned a lot more, and
just a a a different role.
Kids are kinda grown now, so they didn't
need me at home as much anymore. So
just a lot of things fell into place
about the same time
and,
decided to do something a little different. So
Yeah. I could definitely see the appeal to
(03:29):
that. So Brandon works. We're not gonna give
him the company names. Brandon works for re
a major Fortune 500 company. And those companies,
they have big manufacturing
facilities throughout the world,
and they usually have their own people, their
own techs and electricians on-site. But Brandon gets
to come in and do the big projects,
and,
that sounds it sounds like the fun stuff,
(03:50):
but it could also be, like, mission critical
stuff. And so you're traveling a lot. You're
not reporting to the same place every day.
You're reporting
do you often like, every month, are you
somewhere new?
I tend to get on projects. You know,
I might handle three or four projects at
a time, different sites and probably different phases
(04:11):
of those projects. So one might be scoping
out, you know, phase one and and,
getting together what we might be,
putting together a scope and and deliverables and
that sort of thing. And then the other
project might be an execution next month. So,
(04:31):
and and that might be from Florida to
to Oregon. So
traveling a lot
for certain periods and, you know,
different phase like I said, different project phases
require
different attention.
(04:52):
You know, I wanna ask you about so
from a PLC background, I've never used Emerson's
delta v, but I believe you've used it
quite a bit, right, at different places?
Yeah. I've I've used Emerson some over the
years. I've,
not used their PLCs a whole lot. They're
they're,
Delta v,
(05:13):
DCS system. I have I have,
used some.
So you were telling me recently, and I
know you're not a representative for Emerson.
We've had Emerson on the show. We constantly
invite Emerson to come back on the show
to talk about these products. But just as
somebody in the field there, you've heard about
something new coming out, and it's called the
(05:34):
Delta v I q.
Again, this is all just, you know, customer
impressions,
but can you share your impressions of what
you're hearing
through the grapevine about this new product that's
coming?
Yeah. So,
Emerson,
is kinda I believe they're
doing a really good job cutting edge, trying
(05:55):
to,
jump on the ether you know, Ethernet bandwagon
of,
I call it bandwagon. It's, you know, Ethernet
protocols
all the way through the system.
So that's,
you know, virtualization
for for
servers and op systems
as well as their controllers. Their new IQ
(06:17):
controller that I believe is coming out in
version 16
that's supposed to be released later this year.
The IQ can be
is a is a totally virtual controller
that has, you know, double the capacity of
their previous,
PK controller,
3,000
BSTs, I believe. Wow.
(06:37):
I think you can have 13
IQ controllers on a on a
virtual system, so that's, like, 30,000 DST points.
Wow. Quite quite impressive
technology there.
You know, that's using charms I owe,
on their network. And then, you know, they're
(06:57):
also playing in the instrumentation world with the,
Ethernet APL. So, you know, theoretically, in a
few years, there's still there's still a lot
of things out there that are coming and
and all that, but you could have a
totally virtual system, you know,
totally Ethernet system
from instrumentation all the way to your controllers
(07:19):
to your your servers and workstations and everything.
So I I think that's,
I I think that's
on its way.
Yeah. I think on the Rockwell side,
we saw
Ethernet was going to really be the thing.
Right? Right. And I I think that was
we saw this become and I recently talked
(07:40):
about the generations of control logics and or
compact logics, I should say.
And with the
53,
35 e. Right? So the l 35
e and the l 32 e, you know,
those products also came out with an l
32 c and an l 35 c.
And, you know, the there was a l
(08:01):
31 serial, which
I never knew anybody who was happy with
that because of the speed. It's slow. Right?
Because, the communications is slow. But in any
case,
when those products launched, right, I think it
was I'd have to go back to the
automation plot, but I think we're talking, like,
two thousand four, two thousand five.
What really became obvious is that the 35
(08:22):
e and the 33 e outsold the the
c's
by a ton. Right? It's like the age
of Ethernet is here, and ETH and IO
is here because nobody's buying
the, control net version.
And so, you know, when the fifty three
seventies came out, they were a 100% Ethernet.
And so I think we can go back
twenty years
and say, Ethernet has won with SteelBus, and,
(08:44):
of course, there's different protocols we have. Ethernet.
We have a trophy net. We just had
a prophylnet expert on talking about prophylnet. We've
had multiple prophylnet experts on talking it. And,
you know, there's other you know, you still
have Modbus TCP, which I know
I just talked to Schneider. Even their latest
product supports, Ethan IP and Modbus TCP. Right?
(09:05):
Right. So, you know, there's that legacy as
well,
which is great because, you know, I I
don't like it when a vendor stops supporting
the older stuff. Right? It's nice to have
that. I don't know how I don't you
know, this is a brand new product from
Schneider. So I you know, it's it's a
matter of fact, I got a box of
them right here because the packing slip I'm
I'm working on doing a,
(09:27):
show and tell on a brand new next
gen IO. And, I mean, this stuff is
truly next gen. It's just not a a
a a, you know, paintbrush,
you know, to make it look new. But
in any case,
with Ethernet
having one, there's still topology
challenges with our standard Ethernet. Right? And I
think that's where mingle pair Ethernet
(09:49):
and Ethernet APL
can really
take us to the next level.
And then, you know, aside from that, we
also have the virtualization
in where we see that.
And, you know, I mean, in your in
your business, not to not to talk about
company specifics,
where do you think,
you know, virtualized POCs would work and where
(10:11):
they wouldn't work?
Right?
I mean, I I can definitely see some
applications where they wouldn't be a good fit.
Yeah. Certainly,
right off the top of my head, you
know, safety systems, high speed,
critical,
guarding, anything like that, I I would certainly
(10:32):
say you won't see that
anytime anytime soon or if ever.
But I think overall, process
control systems,
I don't see any reason that, you know,
in the next five to ten years, you
won't see that largely implemented
because
(10:55):
the speed and the capability
and
everything you're doing in a in a virtual
system,
you're relying on it already for all your
servers and op stations and things like that.
The controller living in that same same system,
is probably in a better environment than it
was in the field. So
(11:15):
while it might be slow to adopt, it's
certainly a viable solution,
in the near in the very near future,
I believe.
Yeah. You bring up a good point too
because
with
a lot of process control systems,
you can't operate the system without your SCADA
or HMI or,
user interface. Right? There's not a lot of
(11:38):
discrete standalone parts that are totally separate. So
if your main console and all your screens
go down,
you know, you can't operate it. And so
in a lot of those cases, the PLC
or DCS,
the the main brain is installed in the
control room.
And so if you're installing the brains in
the control room anyways,
(12:00):
can it be virtualized on some hardened redundant
hardware
versus, like, we do with SCADA today, versus
being a brick. And I think the advantage,
though, of having a hardware PLC is
you can swap it out. The PLC dies,
you swap it out.
Where if you go with a virtual PLC,
now you're relying on the computer IT people
(12:22):
to keep that robust and and,
and up and running. I I think there's
probably quite a few, stand alone, and I
don't know if you have any examples, but
I'm sure there's a lot of stand alone
applications in your your facilities and others you've
worked in
where
you don't you don't wanna you know, you
if you lose a connection to the main
control room, you don't wanna stop. You don't
(12:44):
wanna stop production, whether it be palletizing,
material handling,
you know, shrink wrapping. I mean, I'm sure
there's a lot of things that are stand
alone. Like, if the whole front office went
away,
this machine still has to run.
Am I do you think I'm right about
that?
Yeah. Absolutely. You've always gotta have those,
(13:04):
critical systems that are that are isolated and
have to be you know,
whether they can talk to the rest of
the world or not, they they have to
run. So
there will always be
places that you would you would
stay away from,
going totally virtual, I believe. But,
(13:25):
I believe the overall system, I don't I
don't see it as a
problem to go in that direction.
How about Ethan at APL? What are you
seeing on that side? What do you think
the promise is there
from the process perspective?
So I guess
what they're calling gen one,
it has been out several years.
(13:47):
I believe interest Houser is leading that
quite a bit. And,
along with a lot of other companies, Emerson,
a lot of other companies are are are
playing in that world, and it's developing. I
think
there's some instrumentation out there, but I don't
know
that there's enough
(14:07):
instrumentation
released compatible
to
to say
you know,
do a whole facility at the moment. Now
I have
read about some facilities,
I believe, in South America that have gone
in that direction
and,
(14:28):
you know, are are making it work, but
I don't know that it's all the way
there. I I believe,
I like I say, I can't speak for
Emerson or anybody else, but I I I
know that they're looking at some,
some gen two,
opportunities where,
you know, getting away from the the gen
one, which was like switches with,
(14:50):
APLs, Ethernet switches that had, you know, 20
devices plugged into it. You know, they're looking
at more of a one to one
Ethernet APL,
charm or or connection that,
would provide a little more robustness than than
having a single
(15:11):
single point of failure for 20 plus devices.
You know, I I wanna throw out an
invite too to whether it's Emerson or Hintra
Sousa. We've had them both on the show,
the automation podcast.
Love to put an invite out there for
them to give us an update on Ethan
and APL. We've, followed it quite closely, especially
when I was doing the news,
(15:32):
just all the different people who jumped on
it, all the big players. I mean, pretty
much everybody's jumped on to it now, but
we'd love to get those vendors on to
tell us what they're doing in that area
and,
you know, and give us more information about
that. Is there anything,
Brandon,
that you came across that was like an,
oh,
(15:52):
moment?
Like, whether it was programming a POC or
a DCS system, you know, think back over
the last month or two. Any tips you
can share with the audience that maybe,
you know, you found a version, didn't do
something, or there was a feature in this
that did something extra.
Any any knowledge or or even if it
has to do with your life of traveling,
(16:12):
any tips you have for Mhmm. The audience
from going from, like, being landlocked to being
this world traveler?
That's a wide open question.
So you mentioned protocols a minute ago and
and my bus,
TCP
and and Ethernet IP and all those things.
(16:36):
Whether it's Delta v, whether it's Honeywell,
whether it's Rockwell. You know?
What I'm finding is that every time I
go to scope something,
there's
10 different ways that I can topology wise
that I can make this work.
And trying to come up with standards and,
(16:58):
repeat ways of doing things that are you
know?
There might be three ways that are all
good options, but trying to figure out the
best way,
whether that's,
like I say, every vendor's got the got
the capabilities to talk both. Say, say, let's
just pick on Honeywell for a minute and
their EIM module, their c 300 to EIM
(17:21):
module. You know, it'll talk Modbus TCP
or Ethernet IP depending on you gotta flash
it one way or the other, and you
can't do both at the same time. But,
you
you know, looking at those devices and trying
to figure out the best way to
to handle, you know, a third party integration
or
(17:43):
a smart MCC,
another p you know, another PLC, you know,
whatever the case, you there's just so many
options and so many protocols, PRP, DLR.
Yep. You you name it. There there's lots
of options for everything you do, and,
just trying to come up with those standards
says,
(18:05):
helps
to
not have to to to reinvent that wheel
the next time.
You know, I know Rockwell, and I think
all vendors do this, but I'm more familiar
with the Rockwell
examples where they have these,
they're they almost look like graph paper, but
they're example
configurations.
And I used to, love to use those
(18:27):
to show people, you know, this is what
you would do in this situation. So if
you had a serval application,
here's the products that are recommended. If you
have, you know, lots of VFDs, here's the
networks recommended.
Here's the topology recommended.
And I think I think it's a good
one vendors do that because, like you said,
they all have so many options.
(18:47):
Right? And and,
you know, guidance. You know, you need to
give guidance. Like, Siemens has they have basic
modules. They have standard modules. They have five
functionality modules. Right? And it's like, alright. So
do I is it just price? I mean,
why am I choosing one or the other?
Right? And so having that type of guidance
from the vendors is always
(19:08):
extremely helpful. I think, you know, for me,
if I had to choose between Ethernet IP
and Modbus CCP, I'd pick Ethernet IP because,
you know, it's a generational
difference in,
development. Right? So you got Modbus, Modbus TCP
when it came out versus Ethernet IP, PROFINET,
and the other the other big guys up
there on the the field buses.
(19:30):
But
then you could limit yourself something because,
a lot of old products don't talk, Ethan
and IP. And, you know, a lot of
vendors, they like the openness of Modbus TCP.
So, you know, they can just implement it
without too much
hassle. You know? Don't have to join a
group. Don't have to get a spec and
so on.
So, yeah, that's a good point. Hey.
(19:52):
I may be traveling out to out across
the country here in a couple months for
a sponsored engagement.
And I wanted to ask you,
any advice for somebody who hasn't been traveling
a lot,
since you're traveling an awful lot? What would
be, like, your top couple of things? And
I I do have one of the ones
you recommended. I do have TSA PreCheck,
(20:15):
which I am a big fan of. This
is something my wife talked me into getting,
and I love the shorter lines. I love
leaving my shoes on.
I love all of that. But,
other thoughts other thoughts that you have on,
on just making making the traveling and since
you're traveling so much, what would you recommend?
(20:38):
So, yeah, what I talked about several things
as far in the articles, but,
I would say in the article number two,
probably,
taking care of yourself is a big thing
for,
trying to eat eat healthy, exercise a little
bit, things like that when you're on the
road.
When you do it week after week after
(20:58):
week, the choices you make will either
benefit your life or take their toll. And,
I guess I've learned some of those things
the hard way.
And then and then also, you know, just
on the on the upside of traveling a
lot, hey. Collect your points and,
you know, get those you know,
it's your choice. I'm not advocating for Hilton
(21:20):
or Holiday Inn or or Marriott, any of
them. But you pick your,
you pick your,
where you like to stay and and collect
those points and then, use them later on
your personal vacation.
Yeah. That's a good point. It's it makes
sense to choose one
company to get all your points with because
I know a lot of people have taken
personal
(21:41):
vacations for free because they get so many
points for work. So that's,
that's really good advice.
Before we before we close out the show,
I did wanna let everybody know there's no
show tomorrow,
and there's no show Monday because Monday in
The United States is a holiday. So we'll
be back on Tuesday.
I got another guest on who's gonna talk
(22:01):
about a totally different subject, so I'm I'm
hoping, you guys will enjoy that episode as
well. Of course, I hope you enjoyed our
time we spent with, Brandon, and I'm really
wish I was in his backyard right now
with all the birds and and and and,
it just seems like such a
of a quiet, peaceful place. But with that,
Brandon,
we're coming to the end of the show.
Was there anything else,
(22:23):
you wanted to share with the audience,
before we close out the show?
Not that I can think of, but, hey,
I've been listening to your your your lunchtime
show here lately, and, enjoy it. And I
appreciate you doing it because it's a it's
a
good way to get tips while you're eating
your lunch. So appreciate it, Sean.
Well, I thank you, Brandon. And I I
(22:44):
would like to ask everybody if there's something
you wanna know or see. We did have
somebody say, how do I connect the factory
talk view to a micro 800?
So I'll be trying to do that next
week. I think before I do that, I'm
gonna roll in how to convert. I think
you and I both wrote articles on this,
but I'm gonna
roll in how to convert a Micrologix product
project to a micro 800
because
(23:05):
in my factory talk to you course, I
I do everything but micro 800
just because of time. It was just so
so time consuming creating a course that just
for time, I left it out. But I'm
figuring, hey. I might as well add it
now because I'm adding I'm always adding lessons
to my courses. So, in any case, if
we wanna if we wanna see the courses
I have available, the automationschool.com.
(23:25):
With that, Brandon, thank you so much, not
only for coming on the lunchtime show today,
but for all the articles you've shared with
the audience over at the automation blog.
And, again, if you have any tips or
ideas,
we'd love to have you submit them or
even come back on the show and share
with the audience.
Sounds good. Thank you, Sean.
Alright. And I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody
(23:46):
on the live stream. Hope you guys have
a great day. Again, I'm not on tomorrow
or Monday, so have a great weekend. And
until next time, I should probably go full
screen.
That's full screen of Brandon. That's not full
screen of me.
Let me try that again. Until next time,
my friends.
Peace.
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