August 13, 2025 • 18 mins
Let's talk about Ethernet/IP versus PROFINET in today's Automation Tech Talk, Lunchtime Edition:
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Shawn Tierney (Host): Hey, everybody. Happy lunchtime. It is Shawn from Insights and Automation. I wanna welcome everybody who's tuning in. Thank you for joining me.
Really wanna make these lunchtime sessions of the automation tech talk show, collaborative. So, please feel free to post questions or comments. For some reason, StreamYard has not taken those from LinkedIn, so my apologies. I don't know why. But in any case, maybe, if somebody could do a test post there, it says can't post comments to LinkedIn, so maybe I still can read them.
Who knows? In any case, I hope you're having a great lunch. I'm giving myself thirty minutes to get ready for these things, and then, like, I was editing to this afternoon's podcast, and I'm like, oh, I gotta hurry up and get over here. But I put together a little, presentation just to talk about, you know, Ethernet IP versus PROFINET. Right?
And so before we get into that, again, if you're having problems hearing me or anything like that, it looks like everything's working on my side. And and by the way, today, I'm coming to you from my office. It's not very clean, but this is where the work gets done when I'm not in the studio or in the training room. But in any case, so, let me put some things out there. So as somebody who's used Ethernet IP well since it came out.
Right? So, you know, we were back in the days in Data Hour plus and remote IO, and some people call it Rio. And I was like, Rio is a city. Call it remote IO or r I o. But in the case, that's how my weird brain works.
Hey. Thank you, Emmanuel. Really appreciate it. It's good to see you again. Great.
It's been a while since we talked. So in any case, you know, one of the thing these vendors have done is made these things easy to implement in their products. And I gotta say, like all the major vendors I've used, they put that first in their thought process, at least from my perspective. And I can go into that programming software. I can add things on their network, and it works.
So and there's a lot that goes on under the under the scenes behind the scenes in the software that makes that all work so well. I know with Ethan IP early on, we had the whole, you know, unicast with versus multicast. Everything was multicast. Some of you younger folks won't even know what I'm talking about, but we had to run around saying, use a use a switch with IGMP snooping. Use a switch with IGMP snooping.
And then it was IG snooping and querying. And it's like, but in any case, that's all going away now with Unicast support. And, again, if you guys if I say something wrong, I'm just going off the cuff here. It's just lunchtime, so let me know. But, long story short, you know, I use both, both networks in the house here with just commercial switches.
They run great. Of course, you wanna use industrial switches in an industrial environment. And I think most of you have the same the same experience with that. So, what I wanna do is kinda, like, take a look at them now. The one of the reasons I'm doing this today is I'm editing.
I'm not quite done. It takes about three hours to edit these shows and publish them. But I'm just at the final steps of editing today's podcast, which will be on Profinet. And I thought, man, the this, this guy had some great slides, so I wanted to compare him to the slides I typically use for Ethan IP or at least one slide, which is, really based on a Rockwell slide that they were giving away for years and years and years. So without further ado,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:31):
Hey, everybody. Happy lunchtime. It is Sean from
Insights and Automation. I wanna welcome everybody who's
tuning in. Thank you for joining me.
Really wanna make these lunchtime sessions of the
automation tech talk show,
collaborative. So, please feel free to post questions
or comments.
For some reason, StreamYard has not taken those
from LinkedIn, so my apologies.
(00:52):
I don't know why. But in any case,
maybe, if somebody could do a test post
there, it says
can't post comments to LinkedIn, so maybe I
still can read them. Who knows? In any
case, I hope you're having a great lunch.
I'm giving myself thirty minutes to get ready
for these things, and then, like, I was
editing to this afternoon's podcast, and I'm like,
oh, I gotta hurry up and get over
here. But I put together a little,
(01:13):
presentation
just to talk about,
you know, Ethernet
IP versus PROFINET. Right? And so before we
get into that, again, if you're having problems
hearing me or anything like that, it looks
like everything's working on my side. And and
by the way, today, I'm coming to you
from my office. It's not very clean, but
this is where the work gets done when
I'm not in the studio or in the
training room. But in any case,
(01:35):
so, let me put some things out there.
So as somebody who's used Ethernet IP well
since it came out. Right? So, you know,
we were back in the days in Data
Hour plus and remote IO, and some people
call
it Rio. And I was like, Rio is
a city. Call it remote IO or r
I o. But in the case, that's how
my weird brain works. Hey.
(01:56):
Thank you, Emmanuel. Really appreciate it. It's good
to see you again.
Great. It's been a while since we talked.
So in any case,
you know, one of the thing these vendors
have done is
made these things easy to implement in their
products. And I gotta say,
like all the major vendors I've used, they
put that first in their thought process, at
(02:18):
least from my perspective.
And I can go into that programming software.
I can add things on their network, and
it works.
So and there's a lot that goes on
under the under the scenes behind the scenes
in the software that makes that all work
so well.
I know with Ethan IP early on, we
had the whole,
you know, unicast with versus multicast. Everything was
(02:38):
multicast. Some of you younger folks won't even
know what I'm talking about, but we had
to run around saying,
use a use a switch with IGMP snooping.
Use a switch with IGMP snooping.
And then it was IG snooping and querying.
And it's like,
but in any case, that's all going away
now with Unicast
support.
And, again, if you guys if I say
something wrong, I'm just going off the cuff
(03:00):
here. It's just lunchtime, so let me know.
But, long story short, you know, I use
both,
both networks in the house here with just
commercial switches.
They run great. Of course, you wanna use
industrial switches in an industrial environment. And I
think most of you have the same
the same experience with that. So,
what I wanna do is kinda, like, take
a look at them now. The one of
(03:21):
the reasons I'm doing this today is I'm
editing. I'm not quite done. It takes about
three hours to edit these shows and publish
them. But I'm just at the final steps
of editing today's podcast, which will be on
Profinet.
And I thought, man, the this, this guy
had some great slides, so I wanted to
compare him to the slides I typically use
for Ethan IP or at least one slide,
which is, really based on a Rockwell slide
(03:42):
that they were giving away for years and
years and years. So without further ado, let's
go ahead and take that look at that
slide.
And here you can see
that it's not showing the right thing. It's
supposed to be showing PowerPoint full screen. So
let me fix that really quick. You know,
I'm still getting used to
(04:03):
let's see here.
Share screen.
Share window. Let's share the full screen window.
I've yeah. I haven't used StreamYard in a
few months, and they've changed it around quite
a bit. So, yeah, that should be better.
Here we go.
Somebody's asking, hey. Before you go any further,
can you explain unicast versus
multicast?
(04:24):
Yeah. Great question. Now it's not showing me
your name, so I apologize. It's a StreamYard
issue.
But
multicast, basically, you send them you put the
your information on the wire, and then those
people who want it can grab it. But
what happens is and I know for some
of you, you're probably rolling your eyes, Sean,
why are you talking about this stuff? But
somebody asked about it. So in any case,
(04:46):
what happened is for the switch to route
those pack typically, our standard switch routes packets
based on the IP address.
Right? The MAC address. Right? So it makes
a list of and I won't go into
good gory details. Let me try to keep
this verbiage very simple. The the switch typically
for IP addresses, right, will keep a list
of what MAC addresses
on what,
(05:07):
port. Okay? So it knows that PLC number
one at one nine two one six eight
one dot one is on port one and
maybe a PLC number three on port three
and it's dot three and so on. And
so it can't do that it can't do
that with multicast packets. You need INGP
snooping. In other words, you can open the
packet, see which INGP group it belongs to,
(05:28):
and querying so it can ask people what
group they belong to to be able to
route those packets.
So in essence, if you use that if
you use the multicast with a standard switch,
it's like turning that switch to a hub,
and every message goes to every port. And
we had a lot of people call up
and say, hey. All my devices on my
network has stopped stopped working because they've gone
off hook because
(05:49):
they're getting a lot of messages that don't
belong to them. So I hope I did
that justice. Unicast is now the message is
sent just to the person who needs it.
It's not broadcast to the whole network. There's
ups and downs about that, but that's what
I'm not what I'm here talking about. If
you guys wanna see me talk about that
in a future episode, I'd be happy to.
If you guys think I made that too
simple of a description, let me know that
(06:10):
as well. So in any case,
here we are in,
back in PowerPoint, and this is your typical
layers. Right? So you have your OSI as,
seven layer network model, and this is actually
comparing this is for common industrial protocol. So
this is comparing,
(06:32):
Ethernet IP,
ControlNet, and DeviceNet. So you can see,
you know, we have on the very lower
end here down the the green area, we
have the physical Sabrina's Ethernet. So we have
the physical media, bits and bytes. We have
data links, frames, MACs, LLC. We have packets,
path, IP addresses.
So all of this, you know, if we
think about that OSI seven layer network model,
(06:54):
that's that's nothing to do with Rockwell or
Siemens. That's just part of network design. And
then we have, of course, the
application
layer. This is can be split into in
the OSI model, application presentation and session layers.
With, Rockwell. We're
just talking about the application layer. Okay. So
I thought this is a very interesting,
(07:14):
slide,
that kinda shows you how you can do
the, seamless bridging or routing between Ethernet IP,
control net, and device net. You can go
in and out one or the other. You
don't have to do any, you know a
matter of fact, we were kinda debating I
should shouldn't say debating this, but,
I was trying to give people some insight
on this last month or two months ago
on LinkedIn. It's like, look,
(07:36):
When the 1756
ControlLogic stuff started coming out, we didn't have
any POCs.
And we were selling the racks with a
data plus card and an Ethernet card
so you could and it was a DHRO
card. So you could seamlessly bridge between the
two. And I don't know how many plants
I've been to,
even, like, metal stamping plants where they'll have
(07:57):
one Ethernet card and a whole bunch of
DHRIO cards so they could go Ethernet to
all their their Data Highway pluses. And so
not that Data Highway Plus supports CIP,
but that kinda you know, when when you
would do a control or a device that
you could just go out Ethernet
and go to those other devices and boom,
everything worked. You didn't have to set up
a router like a k f two or
(08:19):
a k e card if any of you
guys have used those. But in any case,
and that's kind of what you see when
you use your USB
cable with a with a Compact or ControlLogix
or with the network cards. Those were added
to the network cards after a while.
You get that seamless bridging and routing.
So that is the Rockwell side of the
fence. Okay? And I just thought, look at
(08:39):
how similar it is to
PROFINET.
Now, again, different vendors, different formats of slides.
And Tom from PI is gonna go through
this in lots and lots more detail that
I'm gonna cover here at lunch, when that
releases, probably at 03:30 today if I finish
it on time.
I also am waiting for a trade show
demo to show up for one of my,
sponsors, so I may have to run out
(09:00):
in the middle of the show and go
let them in. But in any case,
take a look at this. We have the
same OSI seven layer,
network, model. Right?
And you can see all these are the
same things. Right? This is all the same.
But over here, now we have the PROFIDAT.
You see how it lays right on top
of that, you know, Ethernet. Right? And I
(09:20):
just think it's so cool. This is what
makes Ethernet so cool is that so you
know, it's not a locked down network. It's
an open network. Anybody can use it. Right?
And so you can see they have their
non real time data and their real time
data. And in real time data, there's also
time critical data. Right? And so you'll notice,
right, and and I'm not gonna go into
this in great detail,
but, you'll notice, right,
(09:42):
that, you know, time goes through this. What's
non real time? Anything a hundred milliseconds or
unscheduled,
real time, one to ten milliseconds. This is
this is the PROFINET view, And then time
critical, less than a millisecond. Right? You see
motion control. And in the Rockwell world, we
often would talk about SIP sync,
SIP motion,
all these different pieces of SIP again. I'll
(10:03):
repeat what I said yesterday.
I invited the Ethernet IP people on, and
they said, we don't like you. So, well,
that's showing the conversation a little bit. But
in any case,
now I'm I'm joking about that they don't
like you. It's like they just didn't see
value in coming on the show. So, and
and I said, fine. We won't have you.
In any case,
there you know, there's all these things in
(10:24):
the SIP protocol that talks about that. Now
if you look over here, though, what I
thought was very interesting in here so I've
always told my students, you know, there's RT,
real time communications, and then there's IRT.
Right? And IRT, you're not gonna find in
those old,
I shouldn't say old, Gen one s seven
twelve hundreds, at least if I'm remembering my
the the lessons I teach my students.
(10:47):
So, that's one of the reasons why you
wanna go to an s seven fifteen hundred.
You get a lot of IRT connections. Right?
And depending on the model you get, you
know, very similar to what you're here with
Rockwell, you get so many connections. And they
have different names for it, but in any
case,
I I go over those charts in my
course, s seven course. But, you know, time
critical. This is important. And then he actually
(11:08):
talked about TSN as well, and I know
Siemens is doing a lot. I don't know
if Rock was doing anything with TSN. But
time sensitive networks really is kinda maybe the
next generation.
Maybe that's one way of talking about real
time data.
It's it's a new spec
that's designed to allow you to go well
into the future with, you know, high speed
communications.
And I just think it's so interesting. I
(11:29):
know the folks in Mitsubishi and a lot
of people in the Asia a lot of
Asia manufacturers have jumped on that quickly. You
see the,
I I what is it? IE Link TSN,
you see that advertised a lot. Right? And,
you know, we haven't had Mitsubishi on this
show probably in ten years, but I would
love to get him back on, maybe seven
years.
So, always been a big fan of their
(11:50):
what they do. But in any case,
so from there,
I wanted to show you this chart too.
Again, Tom's gonna go through this in gory
detail, but I thought it would be something
fun to talk about because, of course, he
doesn't relate it to Rockwell. So I thought
it would be fun to talk about and
show you some of his slides, give you
a little glimpse of what's coming on coming
out at 03:30.
I think the podcast is
(12:11):
about forty five minutes. He also has a
bunch of free one hands on lessons,
hands on training dates coming up, all around
the country, so you guys may be interested
in that. And so,
you can see here real time PROFINET
IRT and TSN
all compared.
Right? And so very, very interesting.
(12:32):
And
and, the I'd from my understanding too is
because
PROFINET
over TSN will be able to use off
the shelf chips,
then it's gonna,
make a lot more products capable of doing
PROFINET over TSN,
which will give you the the speeds faster
than IRT. Right? You know? So very interesting
(12:54):
stuff. And let me go back to the
comments. I don't have any new comments there.
So that's what I wanted to talk today
at lunchtime. I wanted to get you guys
thoughts and opinions on that, but I thought
it was really interesting
comparing
PROFINET
to, you know, if we look at this
slide and then comparing it to,
Ethernet IP. It just we're we live in
(13:16):
such a great day and age where we're
using something
open like Ethernet for everything. And every you
know, back when I get started back in
1990,
it cost probably I'm gonna guess here because
I didn't look it up. $2,
$2,000
to add a network card, like a DataWay
plus network card DataWay plus network card to
(13:37):
your computer.
Right?
And,
you know, now every computer has even a
built in, so it's like, yeah. That's awesome.
So So that's what I have for you
today. Let's talk about what else is going
on.
I do have,
a new, episode of the Automation Museum Show.
So we're still only about 7% in that
(13:57):
fundraiser. And, again, there's no rush. I mean,
this is something I wanna do. I wanna
I wanna preserve the history of
automation, industrial automation. So we also are recording
our first Automation Museum podcast this weekend
because this is all nonprofit, so we're doing
it on the weekend. I'm interviewing
me and Jeremy are interviewing a person who
(14:19):
actually wrote a book on the history of
Wonderware and,
Triconics, I believe, if I got that right.
So, things I'm not that familiar although I'm
very familiar with Wonderware. I've used it a
little bit, but so many of you guys
out there over the years have shown me
your your awesome InTouch projects.
But in any case,
this is gonna be a lot of fun.
(14:40):
And then in two weeks after that, we'll
have another episode where I interview where we
interviewed Jeremy
about, you know, his thoughts of the evolution
of Rockwell POCs
starting at the 1774.
So and we're doing this totally
to try to get this nonprofit up and
running. You guys have sent me a lot
of equipment over the years that I wanna
(15:01):
give on your behalf to the Automation Museum,
and we wanna preserve that knowledge like the
PCMK card. I have such vivid memories of
helping people get their PCMK cards up and
running. Right? And, it came to a point
now this is back in the days of
DOS. Okay? And if you never used DOS,
then don't start
now.
So any case,
(15:21):
we used to have to worry about TSRs
and memory management
and, you know, we get so frustrated because
everybody wanted that mouse utility, that palm pilot
utility. They had, like, PC tools. They wanted,
like, 14 utilities running in the same,
you know, 600 k of memory or whatever
it was. Right? And, eventually, I just started
hitting on boot disk because I'm like, dude.
They're like, how come you didn't get every
(15:42):
all of my 28 software packages running on
boot? I'm like, look. It's just, you know,
physics. Right? It's there's no way to cram
those in. So boot off this disk and
have a have a nice day.
But, yeah, good good memories and then Windows
95 and all that too. So,
that's what the automation museum is all about.
Thank you to everybody who's already given over
at the automationmuseum.org,
(16:04):
which sends you to give Send Go. And,
thank you for everybody who sent in the
hardware. I'm gonna try to cover those every
couple of weeks,
the stuff that's come in just as to
help with the fundraiser to raise the the
money. We the first thing we gotta do
is get the the nonprofit set up. The,
what else do we have? So we have
the podcast coming out today, PROFINET. Next week,
I think I don't know if I can
pull this off, but I'm thinking next week
(16:24):
might
be IO Link. So I would love to
do that next week.
I have a trade show demo coming in
from a vendor so I can cover their
products.
Very cool.
What else do we got coming up?
If you're in my courses at the automation
school, yeah, I should mention this. Updates a
lot of updates coming out.
If you are have been holding off purchasing
(16:46):
something,
I looked at my, P and L profit
and loss, and I gotta raise prices. I
it kills me to do this, but if
I don't, the company's gonna run negative. So
instead of closing down shop because I don't
wanna raise prices, I gotta raise prices to
match the prices I'm being charged.
So, again, I took a big hit taking
this job, but,
(17:06):
I'm doing it because I love you guys,
and I wanna make sure I can share
all my knowledge with you. So in any
case, if you if you're looking at a
course at the automation school or a bundle
on upgrade, if you do it before
the December,
you'll get the 2020 prices. Otherwise, you'll get
the 2025 prices. And, you know, like we
talked yesterday, POCs that were two fifty ten
days ago are now 400,
(17:28):
and that's just life. You know? And it
stinks, but
in any case, doesn't affect anybody who has,
of course. You're getting new lessons too. I'm
putting new lessons in. I got five new
lessons I hope to release today. I'm just
finished editing the last one, but I gotta
do the pod today's podcast first. And there's
so much other stuff going on here. You
know, I'll try to think of more things
for tomorrow's show. I haven't eaten my lunch
(17:49):
yet, so we're coming up on that twenty
minute mark. So I just wanna thank you
all for tuning in. If you wanna come
on the show and chat with me during
lunchtime for twenty or thirty minutes, let me
know. Get in contact with me, LinkedIn, YouTube,
any way you can, automationblog.com.
I'm also trying to publish these with a
really nice so I paid for the extra
service to get really nice transcripts. So if
you're a morning person and you're like, I
(18:11):
don't wanna listen to somebody. I just wanna
read because that's me every morning. I won't
do anything any video because in the morning,
I'm like, I want more like, I don't
wanna I just wanna read. So I'm signed
to post the transcripts over there. It cost
me a little extra money, but,
for those morning people who wanna read read
the show and not watch the show,
that you'll find that at the automation blog
as well. Much better transcripts, I think, than
(18:32):
what you get from, like, a YouTube because
they give you, like, time stamp in one
sentence time stamp sentence.
And this is more like it does not
that it's perfect, but it does a better
job, I think. And with that, I'm just
gonna wish you guys an awesome lunch. I'm
gonna go eat mine. I wanna wish you
all good health and happiness, and until next
time, my friends.
Peace.
Hey, everybody. Happy lunchtime. It is Sean from
Insights and Automation. I wanna welcome everybody who's
tuning in. Thank you for joining me.
Really wanna make these lunchtime sessions of the
automation tech talk show,
collaborative. So, please feel free to post questions
or comments.
For some reason, StreamYard has not taken those
from LinkedIn, so my apologies.
(00:52):
I don't know why. But in any case,
maybe, if somebody could do a test post
there, it says
can't post comments to LinkedIn, so maybe I
still can read them. Who knows? In any
case, I hope you're having a great lunch.
I'm giving myself thirty minutes to get ready
for these things, and then, like, I was
editing to this afternoon's podcast, and I'm like,
oh, I gotta hurry up and get over
here. But I put together a little,
(01:13):
presentation
just to talk about,
you know, Ethernet
IP versus PROFINET. Right? And so before we
get into that, again, if you're having problems
hearing me or anything like that, it looks
like everything's working on my side. And and
by the way, today, I'm coming to you
from my office. It's not very clean, but
this is where the work gets done when
I'm not in the studio or in the
training room. But in any case,
(01:35):
so, let me put some things out there.
So as somebody who's used Ethernet IP well
since it came out. Right? So, you know,
we were back in the days in Data
Hour plus and remote IO, and some people
call
it Rio. And I was like, Rio is
a city. Call it remote IO or r
I o. But in the case, that's how
my weird brain works. Hey.
(01:56):
Thank you, Emmanuel. Really appreciate it. It's good
to see you again.
Great. It's been a while since we talked.
So in any case,
you know, one of the thing these vendors
have done is
made these things easy to implement in their
products. And I gotta say,
like all the major vendors I've used, they
put that first in their thought process, at
(02:18):
least from my perspective.
And I can go into that programming software.
I can add things on their network, and
it works.
So and there's a lot that goes on
under the under the scenes behind the scenes
in the software that makes that all work
so well.
I know with Ethan IP early on, we
had the whole,
you know, unicast with versus multicast. Everything was
(02:38):
multicast. Some of you younger folks won't even
know what I'm talking about, but we had
to run around saying,
use a use a switch with IGMP snooping.
Use a switch with IGMP snooping.
And then it was IG snooping and querying.
And it's like,
but in any case, that's all going away
now with Unicast
support.
And, again, if you guys if I say
something wrong, I'm just going off the cuff
(03:00):
here. It's just lunchtime, so let me know.
But, long story short, you know, I use
both,
both networks in the house here with just
commercial switches.
They run great. Of course, you wanna use
industrial switches in an industrial environment. And I
think most of you have the same
the same experience with that. So,
what I wanna do is kinda, like, take
a look at them now. The one of
(03:21):
the reasons I'm doing this today is I'm
editing. I'm not quite done. It takes about
three hours to edit these shows and publish
them. But I'm just at the final steps
of editing today's podcast, which will be on
Profinet.
And I thought, man, the this, this guy
had some great slides, so I wanted to
compare him to the slides I typically use
for Ethan IP or at least one slide,
which is, really based on a Rockwell slide
(03:42):
that they were giving away for years and
years and years. So without further ado, let's
go ahead and take that look at that
slide.
And here you can see
that it's not showing the right thing. It's
supposed to be showing PowerPoint full screen. So
let me fix that really quick. You know,
I'm still getting used to
(04:03):
let's see here.
Share screen.
Share window. Let's share the full screen window.
I've yeah. I haven't used StreamYard in a
few months, and they've changed it around quite
a bit. So, yeah, that should be better.
Here we go.
Somebody's asking, hey. Before you go any further,
can you explain unicast versus
multicast?
(04:24):
Yeah. Great question. Now it's not showing me
your name, so I apologize. It's a StreamYard
issue.
But
multicast, basically, you send them you put the
your information on the wire, and then those
people who want it can grab it. But
what happens is and I know for some
of you, you're probably rolling your eyes, Sean,
why are you talking about this stuff? But
somebody asked about it. So in any case,
(04:46):
what happened is for the switch to route
those pack typically, our standard switch routes packets
based on the IP address.
Right? The MAC address. Right? So it makes
a list of and I won't go into
good gory details. Let me try to keep
this verbiage very simple. The the switch typically
for IP addresses, right, will keep a list
of what MAC addresses
on what,
(05:07):
port. Okay? So it knows that PLC number
one at one nine two one six eight
one dot one is on port one and
maybe a PLC number three on port three
and it's dot three and so on. And
so it can't do that it can't do
that with multicast packets. You need INGP
snooping. In other words, you can open the
packet, see which INGP group it belongs to,
(05:28):
and querying so it can ask people what
group they belong to to be able to
route those packets.
So in essence, if you use that if
you use the multicast with a standard switch,
it's like turning that switch to a hub,
and every message goes to every port. And
we had a lot of people call up
and say, hey. All my devices on my
network has stopped stopped working because they've gone
off hook because
(05:49):
they're getting a lot of messages that don't
belong to them. So I hope I did
that justice. Unicast is now the message is
sent just to the person who needs it.
It's not broadcast to the whole network. There's
ups and downs about that, but that's what
I'm not what I'm here talking about. If
you guys wanna see me talk about that
in a future episode, I'd be happy to.
If you guys think I made that too
simple of a description, let me know that
(06:10):
as well. So in any case,
here we are in,
back in PowerPoint, and this is your typical
layers. Right? So you have your OSI as,
seven layer network model, and this is actually
comparing this is for common industrial protocol. So
this is comparing,
(06:32):
Ethernet IP,
ControlNet, and DeviceNet. So you can see,
you know, we have on the very lower
end here down the the green area, we
have the physical Sabrina's Ethernet. So we have
the physical media, bits and bytes. We have
data links, frames, MACs, LLC. We have packets,
path, IP addresses.
So all of this, you know, if we
think about that OSI seven layer network model,
(06:54):
that's that's nothing to do with Rockwell or
Siemens. That's just part of network design. And
then we have, of course, the
application
layer. This is can be split into in
the OSI model, application presentation and session layers.
With, Rockwell. We're
just talking about the application layer. Okay. So
I thought this is a very interesting,
(07:14):
slide,
that kinda shows you how you can do
the, seamless bridging or routing between Ethernet IP,
control net, and device net. You can go
in and out one or the other. You
don't have to do any, you know a
matter of fact, we were kinda debating I
should shouldn't say debating this, but,
I was trying to give people some insight
on this last month or two months ago
on LinkedIn. It's like, look,
(07:36):
When the 1756
ControlLogic stuff started coming out, we didn't have
any POCs.
And we were selling the racks with a
data plus card and an Ethernet card
so you could and it was a DHRO
card. So you could seamlessly bridge between the
two. And I don't know how many plants
I've been to,
even, like, metal stamping plants where they'll have
(07:57):
one Ethernet card and a whole bunch of
DHRIO cards so they could go Ethernet to
all their their Data Highway pluses. And so
not that Data Highway Plus supports CIP,
but that kinda you know, when when you
would do a control or a device that
you could just go out Ethernet
and go to those other devices and boom,
everything worked. You didn't have to set up
a router like a k f two or
(08:19):
a k e card if any of you
guys have used those. But in any case,
and that's kind of what you see when
you use your USB
cable with a with a Compact or ControlLogix
or with the network cards. Those were added
to the network cards after a while.
You get that seamless bridging and routing.
So that is the Rockwell side of the
fence. Okay? And I just thought, look at
(08:39):
how similar it is to
PROFINET.
Now, again, different vendors, different formats of slides.
And Tom from PI is gonna go through
this in lots and lots more detail that
I'm gonna cover here at lunch, when that
releases, probably at 03:30 today if I finish
it on time.
I also am waiting for a trade show
demo to show up for one of my,
sponsors, so I may have to run out
(09:00):
in the middle of the show and go
let them in. But in any case,
take a look at this. We have the
same OSI seven layer,
network, model. Right?
And you can see all these are the
same things. Right? This is all the same.
But over here, now we have the PROFIDAT.
You see how it lays right on top
of that, you know, Ethernet. Right? And I
(09:20):
just think it's so cool. This is what
makes Ethernet so cool is that so you
know, it's not a locked down network. It's
an open network. Anybody can use it. Right?
And so you can see they have their
non real time data and their real time
data. And in real time data, there's also
time critical data. Right? And so you'll notice,
right, and and I'm not gonna go into
this in great detail,
but, you'll notice, right,
(09:42):
that, you know, time goes through this. What's
non real time? Anything a hundred milliseconds or
unscheduled,
real time, one to ten milliseconds. This is
this is the PROFINET view, And then time
critical, less than a millisecond. Right? You see
motion control. And in the Rockwell world, we
often would talk about SIP sync,
SIP motion,
all these different pieces of SIP again. I'll
(10:03):
repeat what I said yesterday.
I invited the Ethernet IP people on, and
they said, we don't like you. So, well,
that's showing the conversation a little bit. But
in any case,
now I'm I'm joking about that they don't
like you. It's like they just didn't see
value in coming on the show. So, and
and I said, fine. We won't have you.
In any case,
there you know, there's all these things in
(10:24):
the SIP protocol that talks about that. Now
if you look over here, though, what I
thought was very interesting in here so I've
always told my students, you know, there's RT,
real time communications, and then there's IRT.
Right? And IRT, you're not gonna find in
those old,
I shouldn't say old, Gen one s seven
twelve hundreds, at least if I'm remembering my
the the lessons I teach my students.
(10:47):
So, that's one of the reasons why you
wanna go to an s seven fifteen hundred.
You get a lot of IRT connections. Right?
And depending on the model you get, you
know, very similar to what you're here with
Rockwell, you get so many connections. And they
have different names for it, but in any
case,
I I go over those charts in my
course, s seven course. But, you know, time
critical. This is important. And then he actually
(11:08):
talked about TSN as well, and I know
Siemens is doing a lot. I don't know
if Rock was doing anything with TSN. But
time sensitive networks really is kinda maybe the
next generation.
Maybe that's one way of talking about real
time data.
It's it's a new spec
that's designed to allow you to go well
into the future with, you know, high speed
communications.
And I just think it's so interesting. I
(11:29):
know the folks in Mitsubishi and a lot
of people in the Asia a lot of
Asia manufacturers have jumped on that quickly. You
see the,
I I what is it? IE Link TSN,
you see that advertised a lot. Right? And,
you know, we haven't had Mitsubishi on this
show probably in ten years, but I would
love to get him back on, maybe seven
years.
So, always been a big fan of their
(11:50):
what they do. But in any case,
so from there,
I wanted to show you this chart too.
Again, Tom's gonna go through this in gory
detail, but I thought it would be something
fun to talk about because, of course, he
doesn't relate it to Rockwell. So I thought
it would be fun to talk about and
show you some of his slides, give you
a little glimpse of what's coming on coming
out at 03:30.
I think the podcast is
(12:11):
about forty five minutes. He also has a
bunch of free one hands on lessons,
hands on training dates coming up, all around
the country, so you guys may be interested
in that. And so,
you can see here real time PROFINET
IRT and TSN
all compared.
Right? And so very, very interesting.
(12:32):
And
and, the I'd from my understanding too is
because
PROFINET
over TSN will be able to use off
the shelf chips,
then it's gonna,
make a lot more products capable of doing
PROFINET over TSN,
which will give you the the speeds faster
than IRT. Right? You know? So very interesting
(12:54):
stuff. And let me go back to the
comments. I don't have any new comments there.
So that's what I wanted to talk today
at lunchtime. I wanted to get you guys
thoughts and opinions on that, but I thought
it was really interesting
comparing
PROFINET
to, you know, if we look at this
slide and then comparing it to,
Ethernet IP. It just we're we live in
(13:16):
such a great day and age where we're
using something
open like Ethernet for everything. And every you
know, back when I get started back in
1990,
it cost probably I'm gonna guess here because
I didn't look it up. $2,
$2,000
to add a network card, like a DataWay
plus network card DataWay plus network card to
(13:37):
your computer.
Right?
And,
you know, now every computer has even a
built in, so it's like, yeah. That's awesome.
So So that's what I have for you
today. Let's talk about what else is going
on.
I do have,
a new, episode of the Automation Museum Show.
So we're still only about 7% in that
(13:57):
fundraiser. And, again, there's no rush. I mean,
this is something I wanna do. I wanna
I wanna preserve the history of
automation, industrial automation. So we also are recording
our first Automation Museum podcast this weekend
because this is all nonprofit, so we're doing
it on the weekend. I'm interviewing
me and Jeremy are interviewing a person who
(14:19):
actually wrote a book on the history of
Wonderware and,
Triconics, I believe, if I got that right.
So, things I'm not that familiar although I'm
very familiar with Wonderware. I've used it a
little bit, but so many of you guys
out there over the years have shown me
your your awesome InTouch projects.
But in any case,
this is gonna be a lot of fun.
(14:40):
And then in two weeks after that, we'll
have another episode where I interview where we
interviewed Jeremy
about, you know, his thoughts of the evolution
of Rockwell POCs
starting at the 1774.
So and we're doing this totally
to try to get this nonprofit up and
running. You guys have sent me a lot
of equipment over the years that I wanna
(15:01):
give on your behalf to the Automation Museum,
and we wanna preserve that knowledge like the
PCMK card. I have such vivid memories of
helping people get their PCMK cards up and
running. Right? And, it came to a point
now this is back in the days of
DOS. Okay? And if you never used DOS,
then don't start
now.
So any case,
(15:21):
we used to have to worry about TSRs
and memory management
and, you know, we get so frustrated because
everybody wanted that mouse utility, that palm pilot
utility. They had, like, PC tools. They wanted,
like, 14 utilities running in the same,
you know, 600 k of memory or whatever
it was. Right? And, eventually, I just started
hitting on boot disk because I'm like, dude.
They're like, how come you didn't get every
(15:42):
all of my 28 software packages running on
boot? I'm like, look. It's just, you know,
physics. Right? It's there's no way to cram
those in. So boot off this disk and
have a have a nice day.
But, yeah, good good memories and then Windows
95 and all that too. So,
that's what the automation museum is all about.
Thank you to everybody who's already given over
at the automationmuseum.org,
(16:04):
which sends you to give Send Go. And,
thank you for everybody who sent in the
hardware. I'm gonna try to cover those every
couple of weeks,
the stuff that's come in just as to
help with the fundraiser to raise the the
money. We the first thing we gotta do
is get the the nonprofit set up. The,
what else do we have? So we have
the podcast coming out today, PROFINET. Next week,
I think I don't know if I can
pull this off, but I'm thinking next week
(16:24):
might
be IO Link. So I would love to
do that next week.
I have a trade show demo coming in
from a vendor so I can cover their
products.
Very cool.
What else do we got coming up?
If you're in my courses at the automation
school, yeah, I should mention this. Updates a
lot of updates coming out.
If you are have been holding off purchasing
(16:46):
something,
I looked at my, P and L profit
and loss, and I gotta raise prices. I
it kills me to do this, but if
I don't, the company's gonna run negative. So
instead of closing down shop because I don't
wanna raise prices, I gotta raise prices to
match the prices I'm being charged.
So, again, I took a big hit taking
this job, but,
(17:06):
I'm doing it because I love you guys,
and I wanna make sure I can share
all my knowledge with you. So in any
case, if you if you're looking at a
course at the automation school or a bundle
on upgrade, if you do it before
the December,
you'll get the 2020 prices. Otherwise, you'll get
the 2025 prices. And, you know, like we
talked yesterday, POCs that were two fifty ten
days ago are now 400,
(17:28):
and that's just life. You know? And it
stinks, but
in any case, doesn't affect anybody who has,
of course. You're getting new lessons too. I'm
putting new lessons in. I got five new
lessons I hope to release today. I'm just
finished editing the last one, but I gotta
do the pod today's podcast first. And there's
so much other stuff going on here. You
know, I'll try to think of more things
for tomorrow's show. I haven't eaten my lunch
(17:49):
yet, so we're coming up on that twenty
minute mark. So I just wanna thank you
all for tuning in. If you wanna come
on the show and chat with me during
lunchtime for twenty or thirty minutes, let me
know. Get in contact with me, LinkedIn, YouTube,
any way you can, automationblog.com.
I'm also trying to publish these with a
really nice so I paid for the extra
service to get really nice transcripts. So if
you're a morning person and you're like, I
(18:11):
don't wanna listen to somebody. I just wanna
read because that's me every morning. I won't
do anything any video because in the morning,
I'm like, I want more like, I don't
wanna I just wanna read. So I'm signed
to post the transcripts over there. It cost
me a little extra money, but,
for those morning people who wanna read read
the show and not watch the show,
that you'll find that at the automation blog
as well. Much better transcripts, I think, than
(18:32):
what you get from, like, a YouTube because
they give you, like, time stamp in one
sentence time stamp sentence.
And this is more like it does not
that it's perfect, but it does a better
job, I think. And with that, I'm just
gonna wish you guys an awesome lunch. I'm
gonna go eat mine. I wanna wish you
all good health and happiness, and until next
time, my friends.
Peace.
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