Shifting Auto Production Not Easy, Ghosn Teaches Leadership, Amazon’s 3rd Party Purchases

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Episode #1030: Today we’re talking about the real hurdles to moving auto production stateside, catching up with Carlos Ghosn’s new life as a leadership coach (and fugitive), and Amazon’s surprising new experiment that lets shoppers stray beyond its walls.

Show Notes with links:

• A quarter of U.S. automotive assembly capacity sat unused at the end of 2024, suggesting opportunity amid the backdrop of President Trump's tariffs. However, shifting production to underutilized plants is far more complicated than it sounds.
  • Toyota, BMW, and Honda used over 80% of their U.S. production capacity, leaving little room for more output.
  • Automakers like Stellantis, GM, Ford, and Nissan have more idle capacity but face logistical and investment hurdles.
  • Stellantis' Warren Truck Plant has just 17% utilization but can't quickly absorb new models without major investment, despite being able to build related pickups and SUVs.
  • Ford’s Flat Rock Assembly Plant could theoretically take on new models like the Mustang Mach-E, but even the fastest transition would still take six months to a year to execute.
  • Sam Fiorani of AutoForecast Solutions said: "The rhetoric that moving assembly of vehicles into open spaces is easy and quick is not accurate."

• Five years after his dramatic escape from Japan, former Nissan and Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn is living a quieter life in Lebanon — but remains an international fugitive still shadowed by legal battles.
  • Ghosn lives in a disputed $20M mansion, running executive bootcamps for midlevel managers at a Lebanese university.
  • Despite legal threats from France and Japan, Lebanon’s refusal to extradite its citizens keeps him out of reach.
  • He still denies all accusations, blaming Nissan insiders for orchestrating his downfall to block a deeper Renault-Nissan alliance.
  • Ghosn remains bullish on globalization, calling recent tariff tensions “a joke” against broader interconnected trends.
  • He criticized the post-split struggles of Nissan and Renault: “Nissan is begging for some financial help, and Renault is back to what it was before 1999 — a small European company.”

• In a surprising pivot from its traditional walled-garden strategy, Amazon is testing a program that lets customers shop directly from third-party brand websites — without leaving its app.
  • Shoppers can either be redirected to brand sites or complete purchases through Amazon’s “Buy for Me” checkout feature.
  • Amazon handles payment transfer securely, while shipping, returns, and customer service stay with the brand.
  • The move allows Amazon to collect deeper shopper data, enhancing ad targeting and product recommendations.
  • Industry experts suggest Amazon is trading short-term sales for long-term insights and stronger ad business.
  • Jason Goldberg of Publicis said: “The bigger share of a custo

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Episode Transcript

Paul J Daly (00:01):
Good morning. It is Monday, Monday, Monday. April 28
This is the automotive State ofthe Union. I'm Paul J Daly. This
is Michael Cirillo in the officetoday, while Kyle is out there
gallivanting in Waymo is inArizona. We finally got the
rider one. I'm so jealous,because every time we've been to
Arizona or anywhere wherethere's way Mo, wherever we have

(00:23):
to go is outside the radius, sowe can never do it. And he was
sending us all pictures andvideos last night, or Waymo, so
I'm sure there's a postincoming.

Unknown (00:32):
We're gonna see it on LinkedIn. I'm sure we are. I'm
sure we are,

Paul J Daly (00:36):
yeah, so he's out there at the dmsc conference
with so many of our friends.
They switched locations. Theyused to be in Napa. What was
went to that one a ton of times.
Then it moved to Austin. Nowit's in Arizona, Phoenix, and
it's supposed to be a beautifulvenue. A lot of people out there
trying to get better at whatthey do. Kyle's out there, you
know, making sure he holds itdown. And we're here holding it

(00:56):
down on this side, because weare just over. I mean, like one
day, over two weeks from today,we will be the ASOTU team. Will
be in Hanover, Maryland, gettingready to launch ASOTU CON 2025
you got two weeks to buy yourtickets. And I know it's the
auto industry, and people alwayswait, but it's been so much fun
to watch all the tickets comein. We do still have some. You

(01:18):
still need to be there. And wehave people who have booked
hotel rooms and have hotel roomsand have had hotel rooms for
months, but they don't yet havetickets. So make sure it's the
best time. Go to ASOTU CON comand get your tickets. Make sure
you go check out the agenda,check out the speakers, because
we have hundreds of them, andthey are the people you want to

(01:38):
be collaborating with a specialthank you to our presenting
sponsors this year, Reynolds,and Reynolds and Google for
helping make us make thishappen, for seeing the vision of
the event far before anythingwas ready to post. So they're
helping put together an amazingevent. Have so many
collaborators. Everyone is hyperengaged. We tend to take an

(01:58):
activation mindset when it comesto live events. So it is not
like a typical event. We thinkabout, how can we be engaging,
add value to the attendees atall times, the way we lay out
the show floor, the exhibithall, the podcast stage, the
main stage, the food, thebeverage. It's all designed so
that you can actually learnthings and find the answers
you're looking for to navigatethese waters. So go to ASOTU CON

(02:21):
com, get your get your tickets,get your hotel room, get ready
to go. Actually, it's reallyeasy to fly into this area
because you have

Michael Cirillo (02:28):
BWI. Don't use like, what, five minutes from
the airport. It's probably

Paul J Daly (02:32):
like 1010, minutes from BWI. And if you need to fly
into DC, either the DC airports,you can get there in like 45
minutes to an hour, depending onwhich one you fly into. So it's
pretty easy to get to, and onceyou get there, you're not
dealing with any traffic, you'renot dealing with any mess. You
don't have to run around hereand there. It's all contained in
one venue with a casino and lotsof restaurants. It's a pretty
amazing place. It's pretty

Michael Cirillo (02:53):
cool, you know?
And here's the thing, right?
There's a lot of there's a lotof stuff going on, right? People
have a lot going on. And I mean,if you're listening to this, or
you're watching this, and you'reand you're thinking, man, I've
just got so much going on.
That's the exact reason why youneed to be in that room, because
there is so much going on. Butto be around other individuals
who are working throughpractically all of the things

(03:14):
that are going on is exactly whyyou need to be in that room. You
can't afford to not be in thatroom, the just the practical
takeaway. And the thing that Ithink about, that I think is
most impressive, is the factthat we don't as a so do, we
don't have an agenda. There'snot like a thing that's powering

(03:34):
the thing. What powers the thingis getting you in the room with
other people who are proactivelyworking through all of the
things that are going on. Yeah,that's why we have a vested

Paul J Daly (03:46):
interest in your walking away with a lot of
actionable tactics. And youknow, a lot of people are in the
middle of all these, executingthese large scale strategies,
growing their groups and allthat. If you can't go send one
or two people on your team sothat you can have your head on a
swivel, even though you're sofocused on what you're doing,
you need to know what'shappening, because things are

(04:06):
changing super fast in tech, indata, in marketing with AI, and
you want that before you startmaking a lot of decisions and
strategies that don't includewhat's happening right now and
what will certainly impact yourbusiness and execution over the
next 12 months. Let's get intosome news, folks, after a full
quarter 25% I mean, not like afinancial quarter, a full

(04:27):
quarter of us automotiveassembly capacity set unused at
the end of 2024 what a what ascript flip from what it was in
2022 this suggesting uniqueopportunity to shift production
to the US admits the backdrop ofPresident Trump's tariffs.
However, it's far morecomplicated than it sounds.
Toyota, BMW and Honda used over80% of their capacity.

(04:50):
Stellantis, GM, Ford and Nissanhave more capacity than the
first three that I mentioned,but have a lot of investment and
logistical hurdles. Stellantis.
Yes, their war and truck plant,guess this? Get this has just
17% utilization. That means 83%available. But can't, they can't
quickly absorb new modelswithout major investment,

(05:12):
despite being able to buildrelated pickups and SUVs Ford's
flat, flat rock assembly plantcould theoretically take on new
models like the Mustang Mach ethat are often made overseas or
outside the US, but even thefastest transition would still
take six months to a year. SamFiorini of auto forecast
solutions said, quote, therhetoric that moving assembly of

(05:35):
vehicles into open spaces iseasy and quick is just not
accurate. So lot of talk, andthis is kind of practicality,
seems like there's some whitespace, but there's a lot of
things in between just flippingthe switch. It's one

Michael Cirillo (05:50):
of those things where all we have is time. So
you might as well do somethingwith the time. Whether it takes
a month, six months a year, itdoesn't really matter if we
don't do something in this nexttime period there come this time
next year, stellantis is stillgoing to have 17% utilization in
that space, so they got to dosomething with it. And

Paul J Daly (06:09):
you know, the pendulum has flipped back and
forth, and often does whenpolitical parties change in
office. However, it's tough toforget, or it's easy to forget.
We are still like in the first100 days of this administration.
So even six months to a yearfrom now, you're still going to
have almost three full years toget market share to fix the
problem. And I mean, you know,we're over here saying that we

(06:31):
have no idea what it takes totool a factory, bro,

Michael Cirillo (06:33):
you buy a new pair of sneakers and wear them
for 100 days, they're still noteven broken in yet.

Paul J Daly (06:38):
So true. So true.
Speaking of broken in or brokenout, segway broken out, I got
him on that one. This. This onemay be a little salt in the
wound for Nissan dealers outthere, but five years after his
dramatic escape from Japan,former Nissan and Renault CEO
Carlos goes in, is living a muchquieter life in Lebanon,

(07:02):
according to a Wall StreetJournal article today, but
remains an internationalfugitive, still shadowed by
legal battles. If you remember,he escaped in a shipping crate
to get out of the country. Wow,yeah. Oh, it was, like, full on
spy movie, like, put the guy ina crate, put him on a boat, get
him out of there, got him toLebanon, goes and lives in a
disputed $20 million mansion. Soyou know other people saying,

(07:26):
like, that's not his rightrunning, and he's running
executive boot camps for midlevel managers at a Lebanese
University. Students are servedespresso in cups printed with
quote, coffee increaseshappiness despite legal threats
from France and Japan, Lebanon'srefusal to extradite its
citizens, keeping him out ofreach, he's denying all

(07:46):
accusations, still blamingNissan insiders for
orchestrating his downfall to ablock to block a deeper Renault
Nissan Alliance. He remainsbullish on globalization,
calling recent tariff tensions ajoke, criticized the post split
struggles of Nissan and Renaultsaying, quote, Nissan is begging
for some financial help, andRenault is back to what it was
before 1999 a small Europeancompany says the international

(08:11):
fugitive, and he's got 120 footyacht, by the way, that's also
Nissan is like we own thatyacht. That's not

Michael Cirillo (08:20):
fugitive. When you say fugitive to me, I'm not
picturing coffee espressomansion. I'm picturing 1990
Harrison Ford tumbling down ahill on a bus.

Paul J Daly (08:32):
I think, I think he's doesn't seem to strike me
as the kind of man who runs,well, wow, you know, and so. But

Michael Cirillo (08:39):
I mean, like, do these students not do their
research on who? I

Paul J Daly (08:43):
mean, teaching the class? Maybe it's, maybe it's a
perk. Maybe you're like, Oh,look. Maybe they advertise it.
You know what I mean, like,international fugitive teaches
our class here in Lebanon, okay,

Michael Cirillo (08:52):
but like, think about the fact that we're all
here just living our lives. I'mexcited about, I don't know what
am I gonna do? Go to Home Depotlater. And there are legit
people like in the movies whoare tracing phone calls and
trying to find a thing that theycan get. The guy and he's living
in a mansion, sipping hisespresso, his favorite, maca

(09:16):
Rita right now, before he goesand teaches a class and sitting
shirtless, in a button up whiteshirt. You know,

Paul J Daly (09:24):
I'm not getting with all of the I'm

Unknown (09:28):
just picturing like a movie scene. And he thinks,
yeah,

Paul J Daly (09:30):
Chris White's little breeze helicopter on the
pad. Yeah. Look. This is funnysometimes, like when you look at
stories in the morning, you'relike, all right, what are we
going to talk about right? Andthis is just part of, part of
the legacy of automotive andmanufacturer that I think a lot
of companies and a lot of OEMsare taking strategic shifts to
get away from it at least. I cansay several domestics Japanese

(09:54):
automakers have had nothing buta wild ride, especially for
Nissan dealers. Nissan'stroubles. Have affected a lot of
friends personally, and arecontinuing to do so. Frankly, I
don't think anybody cares whathe thinks about the industry. I
think the Wall Street Journaljust found a great way to bring
an article up that has, I mean,it has definitely quite a bit of
intrigue. And I think there area lot of dealers across the

(10:15):
country are like, how can wehelp you get him?

Michael Cirillo (10:19):
Yeah, and, you know, I appreciate we're one of
the ones not talking about slatetoday,

Paul J Daly (10:24):
you know. But the reason we're not talking about
slate today, but now we are, isbecause we talked about it
before everybody else talkedabout it,

Michael Cirillo (10:34):
speaking of speaking of strategic shifts.
Segue, it is surprising. Pivotfrom its traditional walled
garden strategy, Amazon istesting a program that lets
customers shop directly fromthird party brand websites
without leaving its app, soshoppers can either be
redirected to brand sites orcomplete purchases through

(10:56):
Amazon's buy for me checkoutfeature. This is where Amazon
handles Payment Transfersecurely, while shipping returns
and customer service stay withthe brand. Interesting. The move
allows Amazon to collect deepershopper data, enhancing ad
targeting and productrecommendations. And I mean,
okay, this is the thing, right?
If you go back, I don't know, 10years the CEO, the then CEO of

(11:17):
IBM was on stage stating thatdata is the new natural
resource. So a shift like thismakes complete sense to me, but
the industry experts suggestAmazon is trading short term
sales for long term insights andstronger ad business. So I mean
they just double down on this.

(11:40):
Jason Goldberg of publicistsays, quote, the bigger share of
a customer wallet they see, thebetter they can target ads.
Close. Quote,

Paul J Daly (11:50):
yeah. I mean, so Amazon understands what to do
with customer data and shoppingbehavior, right? This isn't a
wild swing for them, especiallywhen you see them getting into
other markets, automotive beingone of them, the more data they
have, especially if they knowthey can compete on price and
compete on shipping, gettingyou, letting you buy products
that may not be readilyavailable, or shipping you out

(12:10):
allows them to sell that Adventinventory gives them all the
data on understanding what,where customers are going, why.
It helps to inform their productcatalog. It informs their
independent like straightvertical manufacturing, and it
gives them more data to sell ordeploy against new products like
autos and selling cars. And youknow, as they turn into more of
a third party marketplace too,in automotive, this data is just

(12:33):
going to give them an edge, asthey say, like, look, this is
first party data that we havethat nobody else has. And if you
list your inventory on Amazon,and you're targeting and
everything has the benefit ofthis immense data. So, you know,
they can turn off the faucetwhenever they want. So it
doesn't surprise me that they'retrying some new innovative
things and allow people to stayin the app, but bounce out to

(12:55):
these other retailers. I dothink, though, man, I think that
if I'm on this platform and allof a sudden I have to deal with
different shipping, fulfillmentand returns, yeah, I think I'm
totally going to hesitate.
That's one of the biggestreasons I do business with
Amazon is because the checkout,the shipping, the return
process, is known. And I wonderif they're going to get some

(13:15):
pushback on that as things startto not go the Amazon way well.

Michael Cirillo (13:20):
And I mean, like when I really think about
it, the thing that excites memost about this is the thought
of people getting their carsdelivered to the wrong house.
Because it's like a gamble withmy Amazon packages. It is a
gamble if I'm going to get myproduct I know

Paul J Daly (13:37):
on time, as stated, in the right house. This is a
great comment that came in onthe last story, but we're
already into this one. JohnRoper says Harrison Ford was
innocent in fugitive just justhere to raise awareness. That's
an amazing shot. Thanks formaking this was that the one
where he was that the one wherehe was hiding out in the Amish

(13:57):
house? No,

Michael Cirillo (13:59):
this is that one too. He, this is where he
gets accused of murdering hiswife, Oh, yes. And he's
innocent, because he use a wellsought after, uh, surgeon and
well respected and, yes, getsset up and gets into the system,
then breaks out, and then TommyLee Jones and the they come
after him. And there's that onescene where, classic dude,

(14:19):
they're standing in the dam, youknow, the opening of the dam,
and the Harrison photo goes, Oh,he jumps, I'm innocent. And
Tommy Lee Jones famously says, Idon't care. And then he jumps
out, right? That's a

Paul J Daly (14:31):
great, I gotta watch that. Oh, that's a classic
that. Prepare to watch it inthree, four, by the way, yeah,
because you're that old

Michael Cirillo (14:41):
that is true, where you get the green screen,
FBI warning that happens firstthe slow

Paul J Daly (14:47):
like priority laws.
Well, look, we hope we, at thevery least, we kept you a little
bit entertained andunderstanding where Charles
goes. It is hanging out. If youwant to take a leadership class
from from a fugitive, you knowwhere to go now. Look, go to.
Soda con com. Get tickets. We'regoing to be talking about the
actual stuff you.