Trump Tariff Relief?, GM Argues Driving Data is Public, Boring Online Shopping

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Episode #1031: Today we’re talking about Trump’s possible easing of auto tariffs ahead of a Michigan trip, GM’s courtroom defense over driver data privacy, and why e-commerce might be losing its edge as shoppers crave more fun and surprise.

• As he prepares to visit Michigan for the 100-day mark of his second term, President Trump is signaling potential changes that could ease the auto industry’s tariff burdens.
  • The administration is considering adjustments to tariffs on imported auto parts and may exempt automakers from certain steel and aluminum duties.
  • The policy shift, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, appears aimed at supporting domestic manufacturers and suppliers.
  • Proposed changes would address the “stacking” of tariffs—where multiple levies apply to the same imported vehicle—by potentially eliminating overlapping duties.
  • The potential relief follows a joint letter from major automakers, including GM and Toyota, urging the administration to reconsider.
  • “This deal is a major victory for the president’s trade policy,” said Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, “by rewarding companies who manufacture domestically.”

• General Motors is facing a wave of lawsuits accusing the automaker of secretly collecting and selling drivers’ behavioral data—claims GM is now trying to dismiss with a bold new legal argument.
  • The lawsuits began in March 2024, alleging GM, OnStar, and data firms like LexisNexis shared driver behavior data without proper consent.
  • GM discontinued its Smart Driver program in April 2024 and ended partnerships with LexisNexis and Verisk after public backlash.
  • Now, GM argues the data collection didn’t violate privacy because driving behavior on public roads isn’t protected under privacy laws.
  • “Driving data includes vehicle location, routes, braking events, and speed—all occurring on public thoroughfares,” GM said in its dismissal filing.
  • “Roadways are public, and these behaviors are observed by all,” GM stated, citing precedent that public conduct doesn’t carry a reasonable expectation of privacy.

• A new study from Criteo reveals that the digital checkout rush might be fading, with consumers craving the discovery and delight of in-store shopping.
  • More than 75% of consumers say e-commerce is functional—but not fun—with 29% calling it a chore.
  • Shoppers miss the thrill of the unexpected: 36% long for the “surprise finds” that often come in-store.
  • A majority find online shopping overwhelming (78%) and lonely (79%), with only half describing it as enjoyable.
  • While data privacy remains a concern, 43% of consumers are open to sharing data for a more tailored experience.

Join Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier every morning for the Automotive State of the Union podcast as they connect the dots across car dealerships, retail trends, emerging tech like AI, and cultural shifts—bringing clarity, speed, and people-first insight to automotive leaders navigating a rapidly changing industry.

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Episode Transcript

Paul J Daly (00:00):
It is April 29 Tuesday, last day of the month
tomorrow. This is the automotiveState of the Union on Paul J
Daly. This is Michael CirilloKyle's running around in a way.
Mo in Arizona somewhere. Todaymarks two weeks until the
welcome reception at ASOTU CON.
Two weeks, two

Michael Cirillo (00:22):
weeks, that's crunch time.

Paul J Daly (00:24):
It is crunch time, which means you should get your
tickets if you don't have themalready. You should book your
flights if you haven't already.
You should plan that drive ifyou haven't already, especially
if you live within like two orthree hours of Hanover,
Maryland, which is like theBaltimore, DC area. You should
join us. I was on the call thisI was on the phone this morning
on my driving with Brianbenstock. And let me just tell
you, I don't know what that manplugs into at night to charge,

(00:45):
but just when he wakes up, he'sready to go, he's ready to go.
And the insights and theintentionality, you know, I know
he's a polarizing figure,character, whatever you want to
call him, but I'll tell you whatthat man loves this industry,
and that man is making thisindustry amazing. Well,

Michael Cirillo (01:05):
I don't mean and he'll be at a soda con, by
the way, yeah, with all of thatenergy, right? He's, I lost my
power. He's actually poweringthe recharge lounge. We haven't
told him. You're just gonna plugput your put your USB C under
his arm. There's a bit there.
There's a bit there.

Nathan Southwick (01:26):
So Michael, what are you what are you
excited about here hearing atASOTU CON this year while Paul
gets his audio figured out?

Michael Cirillo (01:33):
Oh, I thought I was the one having audio issues.
I mean, I think it's Paul news.
It's not me for a change. Okay,so, you know, I've been vibing
on this, this thought process,which is, you know, we typically
get to the two weeks out, yep,uh, people start thinking, oh,
man, do I have time for this? Igot so many things spinning. You
know, there's so many platesspinning. There's so many things

(01:53):
happening. I mean, thatsentiment I'm really vibing on
right now is the exact reasonwhy you need to be in this room,
oh for sure, right? This is nota this is not a kumbaya
conference. This is not your runof the mill type of deal where
you you walk away with some goodthoughts. This is being in the
room with operators who aredoing the thing and doing it

(02:14):
well and coming up with creativesolutions to push back against
the things that may impose uponthe business. And you know, so
So not just operators, but atevery level. Operators. We're
talking about dealer groupowners who are doing it
successfully and expanding.

(02:36):
We're talking about single pointor double point, small group
owners and managers. We'retalking about fixed ops
professionals. We're talkingabout sales professionals,
social media professionals,people who are actually moving
the needle. You know, for me,what excites me is not just
being in the room. Proximitydoes matter, but I've been

(03:00):
around not just this industry,but the marketing industry, for,
like, I don't know, 2020,

Nathan Southwick (03:07):
plus years, you get it. You're a little
older than me. It's fine. Youdon't have to rub it in. Yeah,
get the Grays

Michael Cirillo (03:11):
going. Here's the thing, though, I have seen
so many Paul's going to be soannoyed that I took this over.
I've seen so many posers, dude,yeah, hey, if you just buy the
thing and do the thing, and thenall of a sudden you do the
thing, and you'll be the thing,and then you get into it, and
you spend your money, and youuse a pitch and all this kind of

(03:33):
stuff, and you do it, only tofind out that it was just a lead
in to buy the bigger thing. Andthen you do that, because you're
like, oh, maybe. And then youget into that, into no this is
social media professionalstelling you exactly what's
working on social media thathelp them grow with no fluff, no
ulterior motive to so youcoaching. This is dealership
operators and owners andprofessionals who are telling

(03:56):
you the exact thing they aredoing right now to grow their
business. And so if you're like,Man, I got so many things on the
go, so do they. This is why weneed to be together. If we take
people who have so many thingson the go and group them
together with other people whohave so many things on the go to
move the industry forward,that's what I call your people.

(04:17):
So that's got me excited that'scoming up. I don't know if I
should shout this out on theshow, but do it. But I mean, I,
you know, obviously, with ourother show the dealer playbook,
I want to be able to dosomething exclusive. I feel like
I need to get the word out. Andso what we're doing right now,
it for dealers only. Obviously,would love to have more dealers
in the room to spark up theconversation, but the first 10

(04:39):
people who go to the link thatI'm going to post in the
comments after we're done here.
I'm going to, I'm going to givescholarships to so we're going
to give away 10, the first 10people to take advantage of
that, that are dealers. We'regoing to, we're going to, I'm
going to cover their theirregistration. We want to get
them in the room. So if you'reon the fence and you're like,
Ah, I would be rush. Into thatlink once we post it here in the

(05:00):
show notes, maybe Nathan, youactually can put it, put it in
there. Yeah, for sure. But yeah.
And, you know, I, I said theword posers. This is what's
great. Put the word posers. AndI'm like, if anybody's gonna
catch that, I said that it'sprobably gonna be Brian B of the
Ortega. B of the Ortega isgonna, gonna be in a pick up on

(05:22):
that?

Nathan Southwick (05:22):
Well, I think, I think the biggest point that I
that I hear, and something thatwe've said a lot, is that we
want you there, right? Like wereally, we really want you to be
at ASOTU CON, if you'relistening, if you're watching,
and so make it

Michael Cirillo (05:38):
happen, right?
I don't know about you, but Ifeel like we should just get
into the news. I'm not

Nathan Southwick (05:42):
well. I think not great. We should, but I
think, I think Paul's back. So,I mean, I could just take him,
we could, we could pretend he'snot here.

Michael Cirillo (05:50):
Paul's back.
Yeah, Paul's back.

Paul J Daly (05:54):
Oh, I got my boy MC, I'm sorry. So I literally,
while that happened, can youhear me? Yes, yeah, we're good.
I don't know why my compute, mydesktop went down. My whole
rodecaster just stoppedreceiving audio. So I set up my
laptop. I grabbed my mobile kitwith this microphone in my in
ears. So it's so funny. We dothis so much mobile. I have a

(06:14):
whole backup, whole backup.

Michael Cirillo (06:15):
I love that this stuff tends to happen when
you and I co host. Why is that?
Why nothing beats the last timeI just got I'm Well, yesterday
was the last time. But the whenI was in the office, when I was
at HQ, man that I'm stilllaughing about, that couldn't
keep it together. Oh mygoodness,

Paul J Daly (06:34):
no. But the tag on what you were all gonna say,
where you were all were saying,innovative people gathered
together, is the actual valueprop. So all the people who are
coming and the other people whoare going to be there, something
happens when people who arepursuing innovation and trying
new things and figuring out thethe landscape at the same time,
something magic happens when,when those people converge and

(06:56):
get together. So that's kind ofwhy our things is Soto con is
converge, innovate, disrupt,repeat, all right? I think it's
time, Nathan, you're gonna haveto be on the triggers for the
sound thing, because myrodecaster has just decided it
didn't want to come to worktoday. We're talking about a
session. You gonna throw thatsession

Nathan Southwick (07:11):
up? I can sure, yeah, this one's sure.
This is one of the sessions,right?

Paul J Daly (07:16):
Dealer, group, confidential, driving,
efficiency, scaling, successacross rooftops with Derek
Hansen, Trent way, right. Danban banister, listen, there are
a lot of people that arethinking about and facing the
challenges of a growing groupmultiple rooftops. How do you
scale technology across thosehow do you scale human resources
and culture across multiplerooftops? Is a very serious

(07:38):
conversation that a lot ofpeople are dealing with, some
for the first time, becausethey're going gone from single
point to groups, but some arereaching that capacity. It used
to be two or three stores in onearea, and now you're in a
different geography. Now you'regetting to 789, 10 stores.
Things start to change prettydramatically. So come and hear
about the other people who havealready navigated that to help
you navigate that, or knowwhat's coming if you're planning

(07:59):
on expanding the group. So Ilove that session. All right.
News, time for real. For real.
As he prepares to visit Michiganfor the 100 day mark of his
second term, President Trump issignaling potential changes that
could ease auto industriestariffs. So easing the burden on
the auto industry, theadministration is considering
adjustments to tariffs onimported auto parts, and may

(08:19):
even exempt auto makers fromcertain steel and aluminum
duties. The policy shift, firstreported by The Wall Street
Journal, appears aimed atsupporting domestic
manufacturers and suppliers whoneed these supplies. They need
the parts to build the cars,they need the raw materials to
build the parts. Proposedchanges would address the
stacking of tariffs wheremultiple levies apply to the

(08:41):
same imported vehicle, bypotentially eliminating any
overlapping duties. Thepotential relief follows a joint
letter from major automakers,including GM and Toyota, urging
the administration toreconsider. Here's a quote from
Commerce Secretary, Howardlutnic, quote, this deal is a
major victory for thePresident's trade policy by
rewarding companies whomanufacture domestically. So

(09:02):
kind of hold it, hold them,holding to the guns, but also
kind of acknowledging and tryingto, you know, trying to ease
some of the the real burdensthat are happening across the
industry.

Michael Cirillo (09:15):
Look, I mean, here we go,

Paul J Daly (09:22):
grandfathers.
Cirillo is coming out. Here wego. You want

Michael Cirillo (09:25):
to know where Grange McGeorge? The thing of it
is, there's a strategy. And weknow there's a strategy playing
out. And I think some of us arestarting to put bits and bobs of
the strategy together tounderstand what the whole
purpose of all of this is. Youknow, it'd be really cool if we

(09:46):
all Stop panicking right away.
Well, I'm allowed onecontroversial opinion of the
day, and I tend to burn them inthe morning show

Paul J Daly (09:59):
I was talking to.
Friend of mine who's very closewith the metals industry. And
you know, some of these tariffstheir their business, and it's
a, it's a big business, but it'snot, I think it's a billion,
billion dollar business, but thetariffs, all of a sudden
increased their expenses by $70million because the machinery
they make to process recycledmaterials, you know, comes from
partnerships with Europeancountries. Actually, it's not

(10:22):
China, it's, it's like Europeancountries, European Union, etc.
So the panic not helpful.
Hopefully, this is good news forthe industry. You know, just an
announcement right now. We'llsee what actually happens, what
comes of it. But, you know, thisis just, I think, another,
another, another wave in the inthe choppy waters we're going

(10:44):
through. And like you said, youknow, not panicking, controlling
what you can't control,especially on the dealership
level. Our friend David Longalways says, you make your own
economy. And I have a number ofother dealership friends. My
friend Greg CEO senior used tosay things about like, when
people are talking aboutrecession, and he would say, you
know, if you talk aboutrecession long enough, you're
gonna find yourself in themiddle of one. And

Michael Cirillo (11:06):
so I mean, like we gotta, you know, and I feel
like we need to stop acting likewe are the first people to exist
on this planet, and that this isthe first time that tariffs have
happened, or president with anagenda, or, or, or whatever,
whatever, whatever. I mean going

Paul J Daly (11:24):
for the knees this morning. But I mean, it's like,
you

Michael Cirillo (11:28):
remember 100 years ago the world was at war,
like, however many years ago itwas 80 some on your it's like,
you know, like,

Paul J Daly (11:37):
sure, and then we were like, Hey, we can't make as
many cars. Why? Because weswitched to making tanks. Right?
Remember that factory that usedto make refrigerators? Well, now
it's making mortar shells andartillery

Michael Cirillo (11:51):
and and it's a good perspective, though. Well,
look, Paul, the reality of it istoo nothing ever has ended up
the way we thought it wouldworst case. That's That's very
true. So like, we upfront, we'reall like, oh, and I know human
nature, but like you said,controlled and objective, and I

(12:12):
like David Long sentiments aboutit, I tend to resonate with that
line of thinking. So it's like,we'll see what happens. We'll
see what happens.

Paul J Daly (12:19):
All right, speaking of seeing what happens segway,
good job, Nathan. Time that'sthat's impressive when Nathan's
on the trigger that tight,because usually I trigger it
over here myself, so I know whatI'm going to say and what I'm
going to say. Well done. Welldone. General Motors is facing a
wave of lawsuits accusing theautomaker of secretly collecting
and selling drivers behavioraldata claims now GM are trying to

(12:43):
dismiss with a bold new legalargument. The lawsuits began in
March of 2024, alleging GMOnStar and data firms like
LexisNexis shared driverbehavior data without proper
consent. GM discontinued itssmart driver program in April,
so the month after they wereaccused of it and ended
partnerships with LexisNexis andver risk, after the public
backlash. Now, GM argues thedata collection didn't violate

(13:05):
privacy because driving behavioron public roads isn't protected
under Privacy laws. GM said in adismissal filing quote driving
data includes vehicle locationroutines, braking events and
speed all occurring on publicthoroughfares. They also stated
roadways are public and thesebehaviors are observed by all

(13:25):
and saying it doesn't carrywhat, what it's they're
basically saying it's the samereason Google was able to post a
picture of everybody, howeverybody's house online, saying
there's no reasonableexpectation of privacy, so it's
available anyway. I think thereal problem, and I think the
the probably counter argument,it isn't from a consumer
protection consumer protectionstandpoint. It's saying, but did
they tie me to that drivingbehavior? Because, yes, you're

(13:50):
on a public road. Yes, everyonecan see the car. Know how fast
it's driving, what it's doing.
However, no one knows actually,that I'm driving the car. And so
if they're tying those twothings together, selling that
behavioral data to othercompanies, insurance companies,
etc, etc. I think that's whythey're in hot water. We'll see.

Michael Cirillo (14:09):
Yeah. So this is, I mean, we drove a Sierra
and truck, yeah, the three literdiesel. Great engine, great
truck power engine. Is this thething that would tell me when my
like wife breaked tooaggressively?

Paul J Daly (14:27):
Oh, why did you get notifications like

Michael Cirillo (14:29):
that?
Notifications like accelerationto accept like it would track
certain things,

Paul J Daly (14:35):
right? Yeah, yes. I mean, it would be that, and it
would be driving behavior, and

Michael Cirillo (14:40):
it was tied to her profile, so it knew if she
was driving versus I was drivingbased on who unlocked the
vehicle.

Paul J Daly (14:46):
Yeah, no. I mean, they, I have heard it said that
the most kind of invasive appson your phone are the ones that
are tied to your vehicle.

Michael Cirillo (14:56):
Yeah. Oh, I because, look, I maintain and
nobody. Really fully come outwith this this, but I fully
maintain that when Steve Jobsintroduced the first iPhone, we
were all like, Oh my goodness.
4500 songs in my pocket. SteveJobs was really saying, I shall
put a data collection device ineveryone's pocket, and then
let's make it interface with avehicle. It's like, dude,

Paul J Daly (15:21):
perfect songs. I remember, I remember covering
the story when it when it cameout. Honestly, I don't think
it'll have any effect on dealersand what they're doing on the
front lines, but I do think itmatters a lot to public
perception, whether or not theysee auto manufacturers as
trustworthy companies. And so Ithink from a brand play. We want

(15:42):
people to trust the autoindustry as one that is for your
benefit, is transparent, is openhanded. And do get a lot of
pressure from OEMs to, you know,promote dealers, to be
transparent in their pricing,and they're up so, like, I think
the OEM is in GM specifically inthis point has a little bit of a
PR kind of conundrum in the factthat they're trying to con tell

(16:04):
dealers they need to be thisway, and then, you know, now
they have to walk a mile inthose shoes, or drive a mile in
those shoes, or drive a milewhile you're being tracked.

Michael Cirillo (16:11):
But Hey, speaking of customer perception

Paul J Daly (16:17):
on points, yeah, that word a new

Michael Cirillo (16:19):
a new study from Criteo reveals that the
digital checkout rush might befading, with consumers craving
the discovery and delight of instore shopping. Oh, okay, more
than 75% of consumers say ecommerce is functional, but not
fun, with 29% calling it achore, shoppers missed the

(16:39):
thrill of the unexpected, theunexpected. 36% long, ooh, an
interesting word. They long forthe surprise fines that offer in
store. Interesting. A majorityfind online shopping
overwhelming. 78% and lonely.
79% say that lonely interesting.

(17:01):
We've been talking a lot aboutlonely this past week, with only
half describing it as enjoyable.
So while data privacy remains aconcern, 43% of consumers are
open to sharing data for a moretailored experience. Pretty O's
Sherry Smith sayspersonalization is the key to
winning shoppers back. Quote,retailers need to blend
efficiency with emotionalengagement. Close. Quote, I

(17:23):
don't know what is your Amazonbill say, Paul, do you? Do you
guys like shopping online?

Paul J Daly (17:32):
I don't know if that says I enjoy it, you know,
like, I think, you know, I thinkthe things that I mostly buy on
Amazon are either, typically,from stocking standpoint, out of
reach locally, right? I want aspecific one, or it is something
that I would not enjoy forshopping for anyway. You know,

(17:54):
interest, personal items, beard,bomb, right? All these things
that are routine purchases, itreally does depend. I think the
fact that people are looking forthe treasure hunting, right?
That's why stores likeMarshall's came to such success.
Is because when you go look andfind anything that you weren't
looking for those incidentalfines or the sale items, I think

(18:15):
Costco has done a good job atleveraging that and the way they
changed their stock and theirinventory so much there's when
you walk in that store, youknow, the first aisle of things
that you're going to see aregoing to be interesting, right?
They're just part of the like,it's actually almost, I wonder
if it's like a little dopaminehit when you walk in, like,
what's new, what's new, what'snew. Then you find something you
actually like, or is on sale,and you buy it now, um, the

(18:38):
lonely, overwhelming and lonely.
I think you can look at the carshopping, the current car
shopping status, and say, Is itoverwhelming? Yes, people are
overwhelmed when they start theprocess. So much selection,
massive purchase, financingquestions. So I would say car
buying people are absolutely,from a retail standpoint,
starting it overwhelmed, lonely.

(18:58):
Lonely is an interesting one. Ithink that says a little bit
more about our culture. Moreabout our culture than about any
specific retail experience.
However, I think that auto has avery unique opportunity to put
people at ease and give themsome surprise and delight when
they start the online shoppingjourney and continue that when
they come in store, because weknow that most people want to do

(19:19):
both. They want to shop andresearch and get data and maybe
find a vehicle online, then theywant to come into the store and
finish the transaction. So Ithink there are two very unique
opportunities. Number one, howdo you actually put a little
more personality and interactionin the shopping process?
Sometimes, I think that could beas as minimal as a line of text
that is encouraging, like,congratulations, you found an

(19:45):
amazing car, right, right? Thatkind of brightens it up. And
when they come in the store,understand that people are
looking for a little bit ofpositive, unexpected. And when
they're coming in with already,we know they walk in the store
with a. Negative connotation andanxiety, anything you can do to
erase that or alleviate that.

(20:05):
And that could be a certaingreeting, it could be a drink.
It could be, you know, it couldbe balloons over, I don't know,
right, but surprising delight.
So I think we have anopportunity in auto to address
all the things that this surveyis highlighting about consumer
sentiment in online shopping.

Michael Cirillo (20:20):
Yeah, oh, well, look, I mean it. What I'm
picking up on is anything thatkind of requires fit and feel
like I don't need fit and feelfor Q tips, right? No, but, but
a vehicle I do I need to. Is itcomfortable? Uh, clothing,
right? When you are, when youare shaped like an aging pair.

(20:43):
Like me, I need to go into thestore and put the shirt on, you
know what I'm saying? Like, Ineed to make sure the buttons
don't close separate over thebelly. You know, convertible,
right? I mean, there are peoplethat buy, I would be interested,
actually, to see the statisticson fit and fill purchases online

(21:06):
and how what the returns looklike. But I mean, I would
imagine there is somethingthere's a dopamine hit, a
serotonin level increase whenyou're in a store and you're
like, Oh, that's cool. And Iwould also say this, I think
there's a connection betweenmindless online shopping and its
impact on like the psychologicalimpact of using a credit card

(21:27):
and how easy it is andseparating the the transaction
versus being in store where youyou did find the thing, but now
you have to use your humanresources and deliberate whether
or not you can actually affordthe right

Paul J Daly (21:40):
look, look at The thing, and pull the credit card
out or tap the phone. Hey, look,without a doubt, I think it
spells this study, spellsopportunity for the people and
the merchandisers and themarketers and the customer
experience people inside ourdealerships who want to make
sure that we are a great retailexperience. And I think
automotive has has anopportunity to lead the way. One

(22:01):
last comment here from BrianOrtega, who's been hanging on
with us this episode. He said hefound some cross color overalls
at Ross score. First of all, Iknow we were born in the same
era, because I know what crosscolor overalls look like. I may
or may not have had a pair.
Everyone else thinks it's somekind of like Christian rock band
cross. You

Michael Cirillo (22:20):
know, Ortega's got the Ralph Macchio, Ralph
macchiatis, where, when he was15, he looked like he was seven.
When he was 30, he looked likehe was 20, when he was 40. Did
you

Paul J Daly (22:36):
know he is actually 63 and that woman in all his
photos actually isn't his wife,it's his daughter.

Michael Cirillo (22:46):
It's his granddaughter.

Paul J Daly (22:49):
All right, roll the outro music. I think we've done
enough damage between technicaldifficulties and going through
the whole battery of things.
Here's the bottom line, you havea lot of control over what
happens in your store and inyour vicinity today, go take
care of some people andeverything else will be fine.

Unknown (23:18):
You.