July 26, 2025 • 43 mins
There's a lot we are finding out after nearly 3 years. Along with the release of Moscow police documents the Goncalves family has shared additional horrific information about the injuries Kaylee Goncalves suffered. In this episode we will go through the released investigation documents, Goncalves family statements, and interviews with those close to the investigation. -- Episode source material can be found at Autopsyofacrime.substack.com -- Thank you BetterHelp for supporting this podcast. My listeners can receive 10% off their first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/Terin
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That's Better Help HELP dot com forward slash TERIN.
Hi friends, welcome to or welcome back to autopsy of a
crime. As many of you know, Moscow
(02:34):
police released several downloadable files relating to
their investigation into the murder of Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna,
and Ethan. I have now read over 300
documents, the contents of everysingle folder provided.
(02:55):
I am going to be going through alot of them in this episode, but
first I want to bring up something.
In the event that you, the listener, didn't know the
families of the victims, Kaylee's specifically are
reading these documents at the same time we are.
(03:17):
Many things contained in these documents were not told to the
families prior to being releasedby Moscow police.
The families were not given any documents despite Kaylee's
family asking for them for years.
They were not given these files prior to a public release.
(03:38):
They obtained them the same way that we are, the families of the
victims finding out these horrible details in real time at
the same time as the public press and media, It's
diabolical. During an interview with Brian
and Olivia, Gonzalez told him she hadn't even downloaded the
(04:02):
documents herself yet because somany people were visiting the
site that it kept crashing. Strangers read these documents
before the family on the Gonzalvez family page on
Facebook. They wrote quote.
We are slowly trying to process what we have been reading.
(04:23):
Please understand we are all reading them at the same time as
everyone else. Do you think this was a fairway
to find out the absolute brutality Kaylee had endured?
This was part of what we had been fighting for for years.
Tell us what happened to Kaylee.We deserve to know before the
rest of the world. After reading through these
(04:46):
documents, I can't help but feelprosecutors never wanted these
details aired out during a trial, hence the plea agreement.
They wanted to make this go away.
They fear the impact that it could have on the town, mainly
the university. For an idea, Moscow increases in
(05:10):
population by thousands when students return to school.
During months like summer when students go home, Moscow has a
population of roughly 2000 people.
It's without doubt that all officers and specialists
involved went above and beyond. When the case went to Bill
(05:31):
Thompson is when things seem to have gone downhill.
Steve Gonsalves has been very outspoken regarding his desire
for answers, to see the files before the public, to have his
questions about his child answered, and he was denied
every time for nearly three years.
(05:54):
So it's an understatement to saythat the decision for Bill
Thompson to now do interviews isdistasteful.
Suddenly, he wants to speak. Why?
Seemingly, the floodgates have opened now that the sentencing
is finished and the gag order islifted.
Detectives, police and lead prosecutor Bill Thompson have
(06:16):
all given interviews with various media outlets within the
last 24 hours. It's been revealed that Christy
Gonzalez, Kaylee's mother, received threatening text
messages during the sentencing hearing.
This was shared exclusively withBrian Neton of News Nation.
The text seemed to have came through after Christie gave her
victim impact statement. The family immediately called
(06:40):
over a bailiff and an investigation into who sent
these messages is ongoing. Portions of the text have been
released and I will read those for you.
It is believed that the author of the text was not truly in the
courtroom. These messages are courtesy of
Brian and with News Nation. These were shared exclusively
(07:01):
with him and the messages read. Sitting near you in court and
watching you is a joke. You know that Brian is innocent.
Making threats to Brian about getting raped in prison was very
silly. I am in contact with a lot of
serial killers, including BTK, and I've been put in contact
(07:24):
with a wannabe serial killer whois in Moscow, ID and I have
given him your address. Now, some important things I
noted while reading through these documents.
Mind you, that text to a grieving mother is absolutely
despicable and I hope that they find that person and I hope that
(07:48):
that person is held accountable.It's sickening things that I've
noted while I was going through the documents that I just want
to go over before we get into what is contained in the
documents. It was found out by police
during the investigation that prior to the murders, there were
(08:13):
several events when Murphy Cayley's dog, ran off behind the
home barking. And this was unlike him, and it
took several calls to him beforehe came back.
On one occasion, Murphy ran off and others at the home believed
(08:33):
they heard rustling, as if someone was walking or moving
around in the wooded area behindthe home that Murphy had ran off
to. And roughly a month before the
murders, Kaylee had taken Murphyout back through the sliding
glass door to use the restroom, and she told her friends that
(08:57):
she had seen a shadow figure of someone standing in the area
behind the home watching her. She was very creeped out and she
told several friends about this incident.
I also want to note that it is intentional that I will not be
(09:18):
saying his name. He will be mentioned only as
murderer or BK unless it is a direct quote from documents.
He doesn't deserve the attention.
And this is about them, Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna and Ethan.
(09:39):
Before getting into these documents, I want to warn my
listeners that many of these reports are detailed and
graphic. It's hard to take in.
It's hard to listen to, hard to read, hard to imagine.
It is absolute horror and depravity.
(10:01):
So if that is something that youhave a hard time with or that
you don't want to listen to, please stop now.
And if you need to take a break,take a break.
It is a lot. So the information regarding the
scene, I'm going to separate it and break it down into sections.
(10:28):
I am going to go through Zana and Ethan and the scene in
Zana's room and then Maddie and Kaylee and the scene in Maddie's
room. I'm doing this as it's a lot of
information and I don't want anyof it to be mixed up and I don't
want it to be confused that something that was present in
(10:50):
Zana's room was in Maddie's roomand vice versa.
And I'm going to start with Zanaand Ethan because they were who
Hunter Johnson, Ethan's friend, found and who police first
discovered. It's now known through the
documents that none of the females on the scene saw the
(11:12):
victims. Hunter is the only one who went
into Zanna's room. Police discovered Kaylee and
Maddie while clearing the home after determining that Zanna and
Ethan were deceased. To ensure that the perpetrator
and no one else was inside of the home, Zanna's bedroom door
(11:32):
was found cracked open, which was odd because it usually would
have been closed. After discovering Zana, Hunter
Johnson got all of the females out of the house.
He then went back inside. He grabbed a kitchen knife for
safety because he didn't know ifanyone was still in the home,
(11:54):
and he then returned to Zana's room.
Some of the documents of interviews with Hunter reference
that he checked for pulses and there were none.
Hunter later put the knife from the kitchen on the ping pong
table that was in the living room, and he pointed it out to
(12:16):
officers and told them why it was there and why he had grabbed
it. Murphy, Kaylee's dog, was in
Kaylee's bedroom, unharmed. He was seemingly timid and
afraid. He hid under a desk in Kaylee's
(12:38):
room, and investigators determined that he had not been
into the room with Maddie and Kaylee because there was no
blood on Murphy. The sliding door was open upon
arrival of first responders. We also find out in the
documents that during the night Bethany heard what she thought
(13:02):
was a firecracker and seeing a flash of light under her bedroom
door. It's still unknown what this
was. It seems a lot of the kids were
pranksters and she chalked this up to some sort of a prank and
didn't further investigate what that was.
(13:24):
Bethany also thought that she heard the sounds of cups falling
off of their beer pong table in the middle of the night.
As we know, Dylan seen the murderer coming down the hall
leading away from Santa's room and documents and interviews
with the roommates. It's noted that Dylan said the
(13:47):
individual had a big nose. I found this interesting since
we've previously heard that she's seen nothing but bushy
eyebrows. We also know Dylan heard an
unknown male voice say somethingto the effect of it's OK, I'm
going to help you. It's noted in the documents of
(14:10):
interviews with Dylan that this statement was not said kindly,
which makes it all the worse. And it's another reason she felt
so afraid and didn't really knowwhat was going on.
Now going to the scene in Zanna's bedroom when Zanna and
(14:34):
Ethan were found. Zanna was found on her bedroom
floor on her back and thong style beige underwear and a Gray
sweatshirt. Both the sweatshirt and her
underwear were covered in blood.She also had dried blood on her
(14:55):
body and face. She was covered in blood and
surrounded by blood. A deep gash was noted on
Sienna's left hand between her thumb and index finger.
This was noted down in the reports as a defensive wound.
(15:16):
There were also wounds on her arms and face.
The autopsy determined that Xanawas stabbed over 50 times, many
of which were defensive wounds. Xana's fatal injuries were one
laceration to her right lung andtwo lacerations in her heart.
(15:39):
Ethan was on the bed on his back.
A blanket was pulled up to his midsection.
The blankets and bed were saturated in blood.
Ethan's head was situated between the bed and the wall.
Arterial blood spray was near his head on the wall.
(16:01):
There was blood on the wall nearhis head, as well as on a night
stand in the room. He had two large cuts on the
back of his legs. Ethan's fatal injuries were a
severed subclavian vein and severed jugular vein.
And for note, if you don't know what the subclavian vein is
(16:24):
because I didn't, the subclavianvein is located near the
collarbone and your jugular veinis in your neck.
The night stand was noted as seeming out of place or like it
had been moved due to an awkwardposition.
(16:46):
Officers and detectives noted that it appeared an intense
struggle occurred in Sienna's bedroom.
Blood was smeared on various items in the room on the floor
and blood spatter was on severalwalls.
Detective Darren Gilbertson recently spoke to CNN and said
(17:08):
that Sienna, quote, fought hard and quote, she was awake and had
just recently gotten her DoorDash order.
Now moving to Kaylee and Maddie.Kaylee and Maddie were found in
Maddie's bed. Both of them were laying on
(17:29):
their backs, feet towards the bedroom door.
They were covered by a pink blanket that was saturated in
blood. Both had numerous visible stab
wounds. A pool of blood was observed
near Kaylee's midsection. Maddie appeared to be laying up
(17:54):
against Kaylee. Blood cast off was observed on
multiple walls in the bedroom. A tan knife sheath was located
next to Maddie on her right side.
Officers who responded to the scene.
It is notated in multiple officer reports that Kaylee's
(18:18):
face was disfigured. She was unrecognizable and it's
noted that her facial structure was extremely disfigured.
Steve Gonzalvez has shared recently that Kaylee's teeth
were knocked out and that she was stabbed in the top of her
(18:42):
head multiple times, and she also had bruising around her
mouth from a weapon that is unknown.
Maddie had stab wounds, a gash under her right eye that went
from the corner of her eye to her nose, as well as wounds to
(19:04):
her forearms and hands. Maddie's fatal wounds were a
left lung laceration, osleration, and a liver
laceration. Kaylee's fatal injuries were a
left lung laceration, a liver laceration, 2 subdural bleeds,
(19:26):
and a stab wound behind her clavicle which cut her
subclavian vein and artery. Kelly also had signs of aspyxial
injuries and blunt force injuries.
Her autopsy says that she had over 20 stab wounds that she
suffered from. While speaking to CNN, Detective
(19:48):
Darren Gilbertson was asked about Kaylee's autopsy, which
states she suffered over 20 stabwounds.
However, Steve Gonzalez had saidthat Kelly suffered over 30 stab
wounds. In an interview he gave after
the sentencing hearing, Gilbertson said that he won't go
(20:12):
into detail for privacy and respect for the families.
But they do know how many times Caylee was stabbed and that the
information Mr. Gonzalez has is very accurate.
The knife is referenced as the primary weapon.
My understanding of this is thatthe knife is what caused the
(20:36):
deaths. However, Kaylee had injuries to
her face and around her mouth that are not consistent with the
knife blade and detectives do not know what caused those
injuries. Gilbertson told CNN the facial
injuries are not consistent witha fist, but a fist may have been
(20:57):
a part of it. He was also asked about the
selfie of BK with a thumbs up. Gilbertson said that he
understands that photo has widely circulated and due to the
date, it draws speculation. However, detectives have many
other photos that he took of himself with the same or similar
(21:21):
poses. Now I'm going to move into the
investigation and what we have learned from these documents.
And I'm going to kind of break this into different sections
because there's a lot of documents to go through and the
(21:42):
documents are somewhat scattered.
SO1 document could be about 1 specific thing.
And then when you move to the next document, it's about
something entirely different. So I've kind of condensed these
into specific things that were investigated. 1st is the scene.
(22:05):
The two bedrooms were the primary crime scenes.
There's nothing notable about blood located anywhere else in
the home or any items being out of place or missing.
One report references over $100 in cash was found on Sienna's
(22:26):
dresser and detectives collectedthat as evidence.
It didn't appear that anything was stolen from the home.
Some items noted that were observed or collected did not
link back to BK. For example, one black glove had
(22:46):
a rubberized palm and this was found outside of the home.
There was a stain on this glove that detectives believed could
have been blood. However, it did not become a
critical piece of evidence and was not linked to the murders.
This investigation was extremelythorough and any leads or routes
(23:10):
that detectives went down are well documented.
Even if they didn't go anywhere and weren't fruitful, it is
still documented. Footprints in the snow were also
documented. They were leading to and away
from the home. They were photographed, casted,
(23:30):
and measured. The footprints were
approximately 13 1/2 to 14 inches in length.
These footprints LED from the sliding door to the front door
of the home. They were not confirmed to
belong to the murderer. Again, these officers, the joint
(23:53):
work between the agencies and detectives, they all did an
incredibly thorough job. There is an extremely detailed
list of photographs that were taken.
Evidence and chain of custody for all evidence.
Any time that evidence was transported or viewed, it is
(24:16):
noted when belongings were removed from the home, every
officer present made a written report on what was removed and
why. There are also written reports
for times that the defense requested items or detectives
returned to the home by request of the defense.
(24:37):
With that said, there are of course documents of tips,
interviews, evidence and so on that didn't pan out or couldn't
be confirmed or simply did not link to BK.
None the less, those documents are included as part of the
(24:58):
investigation. I'm going to skip over the
information and work done that led to the murderer as we
already know most of it. Primarily it was the the DNA on
the sheath and the IgG data. Once they had a name, they
(25:19):
obtained warrants for his cell phone financials and so on, and
information within that further linked him to the 1122 King Rd.
like his 23 trips to the area and the months leading up to the
murders. I'll skip ahead to the searches
(25:42):
that were performed on his car, apartment, financials.
There's also a very detailed report of the interview police
had with him following his arrest in Pennsylvania at his
parents home, and we'll go over that as well.
The first thing I am going to goto is the cellular data.
(26:03):
It's noted that he used his debit card to purchase an Amazon
gift card, which he then turned around and bought the knife, the
sheath, A sharpener and supplements with on his parents
Amazon account. The supplements were later
(26:24):
recovered during a search of hiscar.
He went to great lengths to wipehis devices and Internet
searches, as well as using AVPN.However, screenshots of news
articles covering the murders were found on his cell phone.
(26:48):
Police also recovered a search that he did for a live feed of
the Pullman Fire and Rescue radio feed.
Lead detective Darren Gilbertsonstated that not a lot was
recovered from the phone. A lot of the information had
either already been obtained viawarrants for his data or was not
(27:13):
available due to the use of VPN's and device wiping.
Records for Reddit were obtainedand some messages were recovered
where BK was posting to communities such as R forward
slash felons. This was in part of his
(27:36):
coursework and similar to the questionnaire that he had
posted. Several similar Reddit
communities were also visited. During a recent interview, one
of the lead detectives, Darren Gilbertson, stated that B KS
behavior changed greatly after the murders.
(27:56):
He began using only cash, wearing gloves majority of the
time, and never returning to Moscow again.
After roughly 23 visits leading up to the murders and one final
visit around 9:00 AM after the murders, we then have a WSU
(28:19):
warrant, which is the WashingtonState University.
A warrant for information from WSU yielded screenshots of
messages exchanged between professors, some regarding him
as ATA and others surrounding his behavior with female
students. Those messages, I'm going to
(28:42):
break it into person one and person 2 because it does not say
who these people are. It's redacted.
So person one says quote, do youwant to take Koburger question
mark? He listed you and redacted as
people he was interested in working with.
End Quote. Person 2 responds quote if I
(29:03):
must dot dot dot dot End Quote. Another exchange that was
recovered is regarding females on campus who raised concerns
about BK. Person one quote redacted, tells
me we need to do an interventionwith Koburger.
(29:23):
She's going to try to gather information, but apparently he's
offended several of our female students.
Assuming we get some details, how do you want to handle this?
End Quote? Person 2 replies quote.
Let's see when we have more info.
End Quote. Through warrants, detectives
(29:44):
also obtained coursework that BKhad done as a student and his
campus health records, and they also interviewed other students
who had interactions with him. Records included class details
dating back to his enrollment. I'm going to go over one
(30:07):
interview that I thought was interesting and this is an
interview with a WSU student whowas also ATA and shared an
office with with BK. This individual is KC who is
referred to as L in the document.
(30:30):
L told police he met BK while they were both Tasmania for the
criminology program at WSU and the 2 shared an office.
He considered BKA friend and thought he was very intelligent
but also selfish at times. BK often misled L when it came
to their shared work and would have L complete work meant for
(30:54):
BK. He went on to say BK used his
authority as a TA inappropriately in order to
interact with female students. He felt BK wanted a girlfriend
and that they had talked about BK wanting a girlfriend on many
occasions. BK later asked L for help in
(31:14):
defending himself against an issue with Doctor Redacted which
may cause him to lose his TA position.
L refused. L characterized BK as dishonest.
To support this opinion, he shared a time that he spoke to
(31:35):
BK, and he informed L he was packing his bags to catch a
flight back to Pennsylvania. However, L later learned that BK
had been back in Pennsylvania for some time and drove back
rather than fly. L also informed detectives of
injuries he witnessed on B KS face.
(31:59):
He was unsure of the dates, but believed it to be once in
October and once in November of 2022, stating that one injury
was a large scratch on B KS faceand that it looked like
scratches from fingernails. L also observed wounds to B KS
knuckles on 2 separate occasions.
(32:21):
When L asked about what happened, BK replied that he was
in a car accident. When asked what the two students
would talk about the most, L stated that BK liked to discuss
his area of study which was criminal decision making and
burglary. Sit with that for a while.
(32:46):
Criminal decision making and burglary.
Wow. We then have the vehicle search
warrant. During a search of BKS White
Elantra. White Elantra, One item
recovered was a shovel. Several other items were
recovered. Some items were matched to items
(33:07):
purchased through Amazon after they served warrants on Amazon
and had his purchase history. These items included supplements
and tools to repair or replace aflat tire.
The shovel recovered from the Elantra was sent to a lab for
soil samples in order to try to determine where it could have
(33:29):
been used. I think the working theory was
that the shovel was used in order to get rid of the knife.
Soil samples were also collectedfrom areas that may have been
visited per B KS photos and his cell phone data.
The results of the soil testing on the shovel showed that the
(33:52):
soil was consistent with soil inthe Moscow area.
The report also stated the soil was likely not from anywhere
east of Moscow. This finding also excluded
Pennsylvania as a likely source of the soil.
The soil displayed characteristics of soil carried
to the area via a water source, though this could be recent or
(34:18):
could have been from any point in the area's geologic history.
None of the soil samples collected from various areas
were a match for the soil on theshovel.
An additional exam was done on the pollen findings in the soil
(34:38):
that was on the shovel. The report states The shovel
soil contained high amounts of pine pollen and single pollen
grains from plants that are not naturally distributed in Moscow,
ID area. Specifically, basswood and red
Maple were found in the soil recovered from the shovel.
(35:02):
Both are commonly planted ornamental species, however they
are not natural plants. In Moscow, ID detectives also
obtained a video of an inmate transfer where BK was mentioned.
A male inmate is seen in this video speaking to a female
(35:26):
inmate and shared that he had been housed in Max, meaning
maximum security. The other inmate replied quote,
Oh, were you in there with Koburger?
End Quote and then asked quote how is he?
End Quote. To which the male inmate replied
quote a fucking weirdo. End Quote.
(35:48):
The female asked if the male inmate thought BK was guilty and
the male inmate responded that he thought he was a pretty good
judge of character and said, quote, his eyes tell a story
and, quote, we're now going to move on to the interview that
(36:09):
police had with him following his arrest in Pennsylvania.
The two lead detectives from Moscow were present in
Pennsylvania for his arrest and documents detail their interview
leading up to him requesting an attorney.
They're quite lengthy. And the overall theme is that
(36:30):
the perderer was trying to play games with the detectives,
typical since he thinks he's of such high intelligence.
His primary concern throughout the interview was his parents
and dog. I have included the documents of
the full interview on the autopsy of a crime sub sub stack
(36:52):
if you would like to read them. Eventually detectives confirmed
after some small talk that the murders in Moscow were why they
were there and asked if he wouldlike to talk about that, to
which he replies quote well I think I would need a lawyer and
quote much of this interview. I don't know if it's because of
(37:18):
reading all of the brutal injuries on these kids or
knowing what he's done, but muchof this interview just disgusts
me. It just comes off like he is
such a a snide asshole who thinks he is playing mind games
(37:38):
with these detectives as they sit there.
He even went as far as to say toone of the detectives that Oh
yeah I thought you looked familiar.
They later followed up asking why he thought he looked
(38:02):
familiar. He also discussed, you know, his
PhD program. He spoke more about the process
to get into a PhD program and how competitive it can be.
It's just. But yes all of that is included
(38:29):
on the sub stack if you would like to read it.
It is 3 pages which details the entire interview that was had
with him after his arrest in Pennsylvania.
I'm now going to move on to a meeting that was had with the
(38:51):
Spokane County Medical Examiner on June 28th, 2023.
Several detectives including Danny Vargas, Jeff Nye and Bill
Thompson met with Doctor S redacted.
The doctor had pre selected several photos of each victim to
(39:12):
review with everyone who was present.
While reviewing the photos, the doctor described the shape of a
weapon which would have caused the injuries.
The doctor was then shown a cabar knife.
The doctor confirmed that the size and shape was consistent as
(39:33):
being the weapon which could have caused the injuries on all
four victims. Dr. S Redacted further described
how some of the wounds had two points on either end and how
some wounds had a point on one end in a square shape at the
other end, further explaining how the Khabar knife could have
(39:57):
created these wounds. Depending on the depth of the
injury, the tip of the knife having sharp edges on either
side would show a wound with thepoints on either end.
Also explaining that a deeper wound would show a point on one
(40:17):
side and the square on the otherand how it matched the shape of
the knife blade having the single sharp edge on one side
and a square edge on the other below the tip.
Dr. S Redacted also pointed out that some wounds had a mark
(40:37):
consistent with the guard of theK Bar knife and to think about
that a little further. In order for a mark or wound to
be created by the knife guard, the entire blade would have to
be inserted into the victim first, the knife then stopping
(41:03):
when the flesh meets the guard, which is just really hard to
think about. Doctor S Redacted also described
how the wounds could look different depending on the skin
stretching, dynamics of the situation at the time, the angle
(41:28):
or position the knife was in when it was inserted and or
removed, and how a victim was moving or not moving at the
time. Doctor S Redacted described that
some injuries depicted that the strength of the weapon itself
and the force used would have been great.
(41:56):
I am going to end this episode here.
As you can imagine, this is a lot to take in and since
sentencing it seems there is just a constant flood of
information coming out. It's disappointing that the
documents are readily available and yet there are online
(42:17):
creators still sharing false information and half truths.
I encourage you to download the documents yourself.
Read them. Please.
Be kind to those around you and especially online.
Be considerate of the survivors and families.
(42:40):
Imagine how difficult it is for them to be reading this at the
same time as the public. Even if they don't seek it out,
it's in their faces, it's onlineand it's on TV Information that
they didn't know. The horror of what their
(43:02):
children and siblings went through.
This isn't some binge worthy TV show.
This is real and raw for many people.
So please just be kind and be cautious when sharing
information and just double check and make sure that what
(43:25):
you're sharing is accurate. Just because some creator online
says it doesn't mean it's true. Thank you so much for listening
and supporting Autopsy of a Crime.
I hope you all stay safe and I will be back with a new episode
soon. Bye.
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That's Better Help HELP dot com forward slash TERIN.
Hi friends, welcome to or welcome back to autopsy of a
crime. As many of you know, Moscow
(02:34):
police released several downloadable files relating to
their investigation into the murder of Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna,
and Ethan. I have now read over 300
documents, the contents of everysingle folder provided.
(02:55):
I am going to be going through alot of them in this episode, but
first I want to bring up something.
In the event that you, the listener, didn't know the
families of the victims, Kaylee's specifically are
reading these documents at the same time we are.
(03:17):
Many things contained in these documents were not told to the
families prior to being releasedby Moscow police.
The families were not given any documents despite Kaylee's
family asking for them for years.
They were not given these files prior to a public release.
(03:38):
They obtained them the same way that we are, the families of the
victims finding out these horrible details in real time at
the same time as the public press and media, It's
diabolical. During an interview with Brian
and Olivia, Gonzalez told him she hadn't even downloaded the
(04:02):
documents herself yet because somany people were visiting the
site that it kept crashing. Strangers read these documents
before the family on the Gonzalvez family page on
Facebook. They wrote quote.
We are slowly trying to process what we have been reading.
(04:23):
Please understand we are all reading them at the same time as
everyone else. Do you think this was a fairway
to find out the absolute brutality Kaylee had endured?
This was part of what we had been fighting for for years.
Tell us what happened to Kaylee.We deserve to know before the
rest of the world. After reading through these
(04:46):
documents, I can't help but feelprosecutors never wanted these
details aired out during a trial, hence the plea agreement.
They wanted to make this go away.
They fear the impact that it could have on the town, mainly
the university. For an idea, Moscow increases in
(05:10):
population by thousands when students return to school.
During months like summer when students go home, Moscow has a
population of roughly 2000 people.
It's without doubt that all officers and specialists
involved went above and beyond. When the case went to Bill
(05:31):
Thompson is when things seem to have gone downhill.
Steve Gonsalves has been very outspoken regarding his desire
for answers, to see the files before the public, to have his
questions about his child answered, and he was denied
every time for nearly three years.
(05:54):
So it's an understatement to saythat the decision for Bill
Thompson to now do interviews isdistasteful.
Suddenly, he wants to speak. Why?
Seemingly, the floodgates have opened now that the sentencing
is finished and the gag order islifted.
Detectives, police and lead prosecutor Bill Thompson have
(06:16):
all given interviews with various media outlets within the
last 24 hours. It's been revealed that Christy
Gonzalez, Kaylee's mother, received threatening text
messages during the sentencing hearing.
This was shared exclusively withBrian Neton of News Nation.
The text seemed to have came through after Christie gave her
victim impact statement. The family immediately called
(06:40):
over a bailiff and an investigation into who sent
these messages is ongoing. Portions of the text have been
released and I will read those for you.
It is believed that the author of the text was not truly in the
courtroom. These messages are courtesy of
Brian and with News Nation. These were shared exclusively
(07:01):
with him and the messages read. Sitting near you in court and
watching you is a joke. You know that Brian is innocent.
Making threats to Brian about getting raped in prison was very
silly. I am in contact with a lot of
serial killers, including BTK, and I've been put in contact
(07:24):
with a wannabe serial killer whois in Moscow, ID and I have
given him your address. Now, some important things I
noted while reading through these documents.
Mind you, that text to a grieving mother is absolutely
despicable and I hope that they find that person and I hope that
(07:48):
that person is held accountable.It's sickening things that I've
noted while I was going through the documents that I just want
to go over before we get into what is contained in the
documents. It was found out by police
during the investigation that prior to the murders, there were
(08:13):
several events when Murphy Cayley's dog, ran off behind the
home barking. And this was unlike him, and it
took several calls to him beforehe came back.
On one occasion, Murphy ran off and others at the home believed
(08:33):
they heard rustling, as if someone was walking or moving
around in the wooded area behindthe home that Murphy had ran off
to. And roughly a month before the
murders, Kaylee had taken Murphyout back through the sliding
glass door to use the restroom, and she told her friends that
(08:57):
she had seen a shadow figure of someone standing in the area
behind the home watching her. She was very creeped out and she
told several friends about this incident.
I also want to note that it is intentional that I will not be
(09:18):
saying his name. He will be mentioned only as
murderer or BK unless it is a direct quote from documents.
He doesn't deserve the attention.
And this is about them, Kaylee, Maddie, Zanna and Ethan.
(09:39):
Before getting into these documents, I want to warn my
listeners that many of these reports are detailed and
graphic. It's hard to take in.
It's hard to listen to, hard to read, hard to imagine.
It is absolute horror and depravity.
(10:01):
So if that is something that youhave a hard time with or that
you don't want to listen to, please stop now.
And if you need to take a break,take a break.
It is a lot. So the information regarding the
scene, I'm going to separate it and break it down into sections.
(10:28):
I am going to go through Zana and Ethan and the scene in
Zana's room and then Maddie and Kaylee and the scene in Maddie's
room. I'm doing this as it's a lot of
information and I don't want anyof it to be mixed up and I don't
want it to be confused that something that was present in
(10:50):
Zana's room was in Maddie's roomand vice versa.
And I'm going to start with Zanaand Ethan because they were who
Hunter Johnson, Ethan's friend, found and who police first
discovered. It's now known through the
documents that none of the females on the scene saw the
(11:12):
victims. Hunter is the only one who went
into Zanna's room. Police discovered Kaylee and
Maddie while clearing the home after determining that Zanna and
Ethan were deceased. To ensure that the perpetrator
and no one else was inside of the home, Zanna's bedroom door
(11:32):
was found cracked open, which was odd because it usually would
have been closed. After discovering Zana, Hunter
Johnson got all of the females out of the house.
He then went back inside. He grabbed a kitchen knife for
safety because he didn't know ifanyone was still in the home,
(11:54):
and he then returned to Zana's room.
Some of the documents of interviews with Hunter reference
that he checked for pulses and there were none.
Hunter later put the knife from the kitchen on the ping pong
table that was in the living room, and he pointed it out to
(12:16):
officers and told them why it was there and why he had grabbed
it. Murphy, Kaylee's dog, was in
Kaylee's bedroom, unharmed. He was seemingly timid and
afraid. He hid under a desk in Kaylee's
(12:38):
room, and investigators determined that he had not been
into the room with Maddie and Kaylee because there was no
blood on Murphy. The sliding door was open upon
arrival of first responders. We also find out in the
documents that during the night Bethany heard what she thought
(13:02):
was a firecracker and seeing a flash of light under her bedroom
door. It's still unknown what this
was. It seems a lot of the kids were
pranksters and she chalked this up to some sort of a prank and
didn't further investigate what that was.
(13:24):
Bethany also thought that she heard the sounds of cups falling
off of their beer pong table in the middle of the night.
As we know, Dylan seen the murderer coming down the hall
leading away from Santa's room and documents and interviews
with the roommates. It's noted that Dylan said the
(13:47):
individual had a big nose. I found this interesting since
we've previously heard that she's seen nothing but bushy
eyebrows. We also know Dylan heard an
unknown male voice say somethingto the effect of it's OK, I'm
going to help you. It's noted in the documents of
(14:10):
interviews with Dylan that this statement was not said kindly,
which makes it all the worse. And it's another reason she felt
so afraid and didn't really knowwhat was going on.
Now going to the scene in Zanna's bedroom when Zanna and
(14:34):
Ethan were found. Zanna was found on her bedroom
floor on her back and thong style beige underwear and a Gray
sweatshirt. Both the sweatshirt and her
underwear were covered in blood.She also had dried blood on her
(14:55):
body and face. She was covered in blood and
surrounded by blood. A deep gash was noted on
Sienna's left hand between her thumb and index finger.
This was noted down in the reports as a defensive wound.
(15:16):
There were also wounds on her arms and face.
The autopsy determined that Xanawas stabbed over 50 times, many
of which were defensive wounds. Xana's fatal injuries were one
laceration to her right lung andtwo lacerations in her heart.
(15:39):
Ethan was on the bed on his back.
A blanket was pulled up to his midsection.
The blankets and bed were saturated in blood.
Ethan's head was situated between the bed and the wall.
Arterial blood spray was near his head on the wall.
(16:01):
There was blood on the wall nearhis head, as well as on a night
stand in the room. He had two large cuts on the
back of his legs. Ethan's fatal injuries were a
severed subclavian vein and severed jugular vein.
And for note, if you don't know what the subclavian vein is
(16:24):
because I didn't, the subclavianvein is located near the
collarbone and your jugular veinis in your neck.
The night stand was noted as seeming out of place or like it
had been moved due to an awkwardposition.
(16:46):
Officers and detectives noted that it appeared an intense
struggle occurred in Sienna's bedroom.
Blood was smeared on various items in the room on the floor
and blood spatter was on severalwalls.
Detective Darren Gilbertson recently spoke to CNN and said
(17:08):
that Sienna, quote, fought hard and quote, she was awake and had
just recently gotten her DoorDash order.
Now moving to Kaylee and Maddie.Kaylee and Maddie were found in
Maddie's bed. Both of them were laying on
(17:29):
their backs, feet towards the bedroom door.
They were covered by a pink blanket that was saturated in
blood. Both had numerous visible stab
wounds. A pool of blood was observed
near Kaylee's midsection. Maddie appeared to be laying up
(17:54):
against Kaylee. Blood cast off was observed on
multiple walls in the bedroom. A tan knife sheath was located
next to Maddie on her right side.
Officers who responded to the scene.
It is notated in multiple officer reports that Kaylee's
(18:18):
face was disfigured. She was unrecognizable and it's
noted that her facial structure was extremely disfigured.
Steve Gonzalvez has shared recently that Kaylee's teeth
were knocked out and that she was stabbed in the top of her
(18:42):
head multiple times, and she also had bruising around her
mouth from a weapon that is unknown.
Maddie had stab wounds, a gash under her right eye that went
from the corner of her eye to her nose, as well as wounds to
(19:04):
her forearms and hands. Maddie's fatal wounds were a
left lung laceration, osleration, and a liver
laceration. Kaylee's fatal injuries were a
left lung laceration, a liver laceration, 2 subdural bleeds,
(19:26):
and a stab wound behind her clavicle which cut her
subclavian vein and artery. Kelly also had signs of aspyxial
injuries and blunt force injuries.
Her autopsy says that she had over 20 stab wounds that she
suffered from. While speaking to CNN, Detective
(19:48):
Darren Gilbertson was asked about Kaylee's autopsy, which
states she suffered over 20 stabwounds.
However, Steve Gonzalez had saidthat Kelly suffered over 30 stab
wounds. In an interview he gave after
the sentencing hearing, Gilbertson said that he won't go
(20:12):
into detail for privacy and respect for the families.
But they do know how many times Caylee was stabbed and that the
information Mr. Gonzalez has is very accurate.
The knife is referenced as the primary weapon.
My understanding of this is thatthe knife is what caused the
(20:36):
deaths. However, Kaylee had injuries to
her face and around her mouth that are not consistent with the
knife blade and detectives do not know what caused those
injuries. Gilbertson told CNN the facial
injuries are not consistent witha fist, but a fist may have been
(20:57):
a part of it. He was also asked about the
selfie of BK with a thumbs up. Gilbertson said that he
understands that photo has widely circulated and due to the
date, it draws speculation. However, detectives have many
other photos that he took of himself with the same or similar
(21:21):
poses. Now I'm going to move into the
investigation and what we have learned from these documents.
And I'm going to kind of break this into different sections
because there's a lot of documents to go through and the
(21:42):
documents are somewhat scattered.
SO1 document could be about 1 specific thing.
And then when you move to the next document, it's about
something entirely different. So I've kind of condensed these
into specific things that were investigated. 1st is the scene.
(22:05):
The two bedrooms were the primary crime scenes.
There's nothing notable about blood located anywhere else in
the home or any items being out of place or missing.
One report references over $100 in cash was found on Sienna's
(22:26):
dresser and detectives collectedthat as evidence.
It didn't appear that anything was stolen from the home.
Some items noted that were observed or collected did not
link back to BK. For example, one black glove had
(22:46):
a rubberized palm and this was found outside of the home.
There was a stain on this glove that detectives believed could
have been blood. However, it did not become a
critical piece of evidence and was not linked to the murders.
This investigation was extremelythorough and any leads or routes
(23:10):
that detectives went down are well documented.
Even if they didn't go anywhere and weren't fruitful, it is
still documented. Footprints in the snow were also
documented. They were leading to and away
from the home. They were photographed, casted,
(23:30):
and measured. The footprints were
approximately 13 1/2 to 14 inches in length.
These footprints LED from the sliding door to the front door
of the home. They were not confirmed to
belong to the murderer. Again, these officers, the joint
(23:53):
work between the agencies and detectives, they all did an
incredibly thorough job. There is an extremely detailed
list of photographs that were taken.
Evidence and chain of custody for all evidence.
Any time that evidence was transported or viewed, it is
(24:16):
noted when belongings were removed from the home, every
officer present made a written report on what was removed and
why. There are also written reports
for times that the defense requested items or detectives
returned to the home by request of the defense.
(24:37):
With that said, there are of course documents of tips,
interviews, evidence and so on that didn't pan out or couldn't
be confirmed or simply did not link to BK.
None the less, those documents are included as part of the
(24:58):
investigation. I'm going to skip over the
information and work done that led to the murderer as we
already know most of it. Primarily it was the the DNA on
the sheath and the IgG data. Once they had a name, they
(25:19):
obtained warrants for his cell phone financials and so on, and
information within that further linked him to the 1122 King Rd.
like his 23 trips to the area and the months leading up to the
murders. I'll skip ahead to the searches
(25:42):
that were performed on his car, apartment, financials.
There's also a very detailed report of the interview police
had with him following his arrest in Pennsylvania at his
parents home, and we'll go over that as well.
The first thing I am going to goto is the cellular data.
(26:03):
It's noted that he used his debit card to purchase an Amazon
gift card, which he then turned around and bought the knife, the
sheath, A sharpener and supplements with on his parents
Amazon account. The supplements were later
(26:24):
recovered during a search of hiscar.
He went to great lengths to wipehis devices and Internet
searches, as well as using AVPN.However, screenshots of news
articles covering the murders were found on his cell phone.
(26:48):
Police also recovered a search that he did for a live feed of
the Pullman Fire and Rescue radio feed.
Lead detective Darren Gilbertsonstated that not a lot was
recovered from the phone. A lot of the information had
either already been obtained viawarrants for his data or was not
(27:13):
available due to the use of VPN's and device wiping.
Records for Reddit were obtainedand some messages were recovered
where BK was posting to communities such as R forward
slash felons. This was in part of his
(27:36):
coursework and similar to the questionnaire that he had
posted. Several similar Reddit
communities were also visited. During a recent interview, one
of the lead detectives, Darren Gilbertson, stated that B KS
behavior changed greatly after the murders.
(27:56):
He began using only cash, wearing gloves majority of the
time, and never returning to Moscow again.
After roughly 23 visits leading up to the murders and one final
visit around 9:00 AM after the murders, we then have a WSU
(28:19):
warrant, which is the WashingtonState University.
A warrant for information from WSU yielded screenshots of
messages exchanged between professors, some regarding him
as ATA and others surrounding his behavior with female
students. Those messages, I'm going to
(28:42):
break it into person one and person 2 because it does not say
who these people are. It's redacted.
So person one says quote, do youwant to take Koburger question
mark? He listed you and redacted as
people he was interested in working with.
End Quote. Person 2 responds quote if I
(29:03):
must dot dot dot dot End Quote. Another exchange that was
recovered is regarding females on campus who raised concerns
about BK. Person one quote redacted, tells
me we need to do an interventionwith Koburger.
(29:23):
She's going to try to gather information, but apparently he's
offended several of our female students.
Assuming we get some details, how do you want to handle this?
End Quote? Person 2 replies quote.
Let's see when we have more info.
End Quote. Through warrants, detectives
(29:44):
also obtained coursework that BKhad done as a student and his
campus health records, and they also interviewed other students
who had interactions with him. Records included class details
dating back to his enrollment. I'm going to go over one
(30:07):
interview that I thought was interesting and this is an
interview with a WSU student whowas also ATA and shared an
office with with BK. This individual is KC who is
referred to as L in the document.
(30:30):
L told police he met BK while they were both Tasmania for the
criminology program at WSU and the 2 shared an office.
He considered BKA friend and thought he was very intelligent
but also selfish at times. BK often misled L when it came
to their shared work and would have L complete work meant for
(30:54):
BK. He went on to say BK used his
authority as a TA inappropriately in order to
interact with female students. He felt BK wanted a girlfriend
and that they had talked about BK wanting a girlfriend on many
occasions. BK later asked L for help in
(31:14):
defending himself against an issue with Doctor Redacted which
may cause him to lose his TA position.
L refused. L characterized BK as dishonest.
To support this opinion, he shared a time that he spoke to
(31:35):
BK, and he informed L he was packing his bags to catch a
flight back to Pennsylvania. However, L later learned that BK
had been back in Pennsylvania for some time and drove back
rather than fly. L also informed detectives of
injuries he witnessed on B KS face.
(31:59):
He was unsure of the dates, but believed it to be once in
October and once in November of 2022, stating that one injury
was a large scratch on B KS faceand that it looked like
scratches from fingernails. L also observed wounds to B KS
knuckles on 2 separate occasions.
(32:21):
When L asked about what happened, BK replied that he was
in a car accident. When asked what the two students
would talk about the most, L stated that BK liked to discuss
his area of study which was criminal decision making and
burglary. Sit with that for a while.
(32:46):
Criminal decision making and burglary.
Wow. We then have the vehicle search
warrant. During a search of BKS White
Elantra. White Elantra, One item
recovered was a shovel. Several other items were
recovered. Some items were matched to items
(33:07):
purchased through Amazon after they served warrants on Amazon
and had his purchase history. These items included supplements
and tools to repair or replace aflat tire.
The shovel recovered from the Elantra was sent to a lab for
soil samples in order to try to determine where it could have
(33:29):
been used. I think the working theory was
that the shovel was used in order to get rid of the knife.
Soil samples were also collectedfrom areas that may have been
visited per B KS photos and his cell phone data.
The results of the soil testing on the shovel showed that the
(33:52):
soil was consistent with soil inthe Moscow area.
The report also stated the soil was likely not from anywhere
east of Moscow. This finding also excluded
Pennsylvania as a likely source of the soil.
The soil displayed characteristics of soil carried
to the area via a water source, though this could be recent or
(34:18):
could have been from any point in the area's geologic history.
None of the soil samples collected from various areas
were a match for the soil on theshovel.
An additional exam was done on the pollen findings in the soil
(34:38):
that was on the shovel. The report states The shovel
soil contained high amounts of pine pollen and single pollen
grains from plants that are not naturally distributed in Moscow,
ID area. Specifically, basswood and red
Maple were found in the soil recovered from the shovel.
(35:02):
Both are commonly planted ornamental species, however they
are not natural plants. In Moscow, ID detectives also
obtained a video of an inmate transfer where BK was mentioned.
A male inmate is seen in this video speaking to a female
(35:26):
inmate and shared that he had been housed in Max, meaning
maximum security. The other inmate replied quote,
Oh, were you in there with Koburger?
End Quote and then asked quote how is he?
End Quote. To which the male inmate replied
quote a fucking weirdo. End Quote.
(35:48):
The female asked if the male inmate thought BK was guilty and
the male inmate responded that he thought he was a pretty good
judge of character and said, quote, his eyes tell a story
and, quote, we're now going to move on to the interview that
(36:09):
police had with him following his arrest in Pennsylvania.
The two lead detectives from Moscow were present in
Pennsylvania for his arrest and documents detail their interview
leading up to him requesting an attorney.
They're quite lengthy. And the overall theme is that
(36:30):
the perderer was trying to play games with the detectives,
typical since he thinks he's of such high intelligence.
His primary concern throughout the interview was his parents
and dog. I have included the documents of
the full interview on the autopsy of a crime sub sub stack
(36:52):
if you would like to read them. Eventually detectives confirmed
after some small talk that the murders in Moscow were why they
were there and asked if he wouldlike to talk about that, to
which he replies quote well I think I would need a lawyer and
quote much of this interview. I don't know if it's because of
(37:18):
reading all of the brutal injuries on these kids or
knowing what he's done, but muchof this interview just disgusts
me. It just comes off like he is
such a a snide asshole who thinks he is playing mind games
(37:38):
with these detectives as they sit there.
He even went as far as to say toone of the detectives that Oh
yeah I thought you looked familiar.
They later followed up asking why he thought he looked
(38:02):
familiar. He also discussed, you know, his
PhD program. He spoke more about the process
to get into a PhD program and how competitive it can be.
It's just. But yes all of that is included
(38:29):
on the sub stack if you would like to read it.
It is 3 pages which details the entire interview that was had
with him after his arrest in Pennsylvania.
I'm now going to move on to a meeting that was had with the
(38:51):
Spokane County Medical Examiner on June 28th, 2023.
Several detectives including Danny Vargas, Jeff Nye and Bill
Thompson met with Doctor S redacted.
The doctor had pre selected several photos of each victim to
(39:12):
review with everyone who was present.
While reviewing the photos, the doctor described the shape of a
weapon which would have caused the injuries.
The doctor was then shown a cabar knife.
The doctor confirmed that the size and shape was consistent as
(39:33):
being the weapon which could have caused the injuries on all
four victims. Dr. S Redacted further described
how some of the wounds had two points on either end and how
some wounds had a point on one end in a square shape at the
other end, further explaining how the Khabar knife could have
(39:57):
created these wounds. Depending on the depth of the
injury, the tip of the knife having sharp edges on either
side would show a wound with thepoints on either end.
Also explaining that a deeper wound would show a point on one
(40:17):
side and the square on the otherand how it matched the shape of
the knife blade having the single sharp edge on one side
and a square edge on the other below the tip.
Dr. S Redacted also pointed out that some wounds had a mark
(40:37):
consistent with the guard of theK Bar knife and to think about
that a little further. In order for a mark or wound to
be created by the knife guard, the entire blade would have to
be inserted into the victim first, the knife then stopping
(41:03):
when the flesh meets the guard, which is just really hard to
think about. Doctor S Redacted also described
how the wounds could look different depending on the skin
stretching, dynamics of the situation at the time, the angle
(41:28):
or position the knife was in when it was inserted and or
removed, and how a victim was moving or not moving at the
time. Doctor S Redacted described that
some injuries depicted that the strength of the weapon itself
and the force used would have been great.
(41:56):
I am going to end this episode here.
As you can imagine, this is a lot to take in and since
sentencing it seems there is just a constant flood of
information coming out. It's disappointing that the
documents are readily available and yet there are online
(42:17):
creators still sharing false information and half truths.
I encourage you to download the documents yourself.
Read them. Please.
Be kind to those around you and especially online.
Be considerate of the survivors and families.
(42:40):
Imagine how difficult it is for them to be reading this at the
same time as the public. Even if they don't seek it out,
it's in their faces, it's onlineand it's on TV Information that
they didn't know. The horror of what their
(43:02):
children and siblings went through.
This isn't some binge worthy TV show.
This is real and raw for many people.
So please just be kind and be cautious when sharing
information and just double check and make sure that what
(43:25):
you're sharing is accurate. Just because some creator online
says it doesn't mean it's true. Thank you so much for listening
and supporting Autopsy of a Crime.
I hope you all stay safe and I will be back with a new episode
soon. Bye.
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