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October 15, 2024 39 mins
You might be mistaken if you think you know the whole story of the Son of Sam. David Berkowitz, also known as Son of Sam and the .44 Caliber Killer, terrorized the New York City area from July 1976 to July 1977. Berkowitz killed six people and wounded seven, most using a .44 caliber Bulldog revolver. Since his conviction, Berkowitz has made a lot of outlandish claims, but his claim that he didn’t act alone in his murder spree might just be true.

SOURCES
The New York Times Archives; November 2, 1981, Section D, Page 14
The Ultimate Evil: An Investigation into a Dangerous Satanic Cult – January 21, 1988; by Maury Terry 
https://www.newspapers.com/article/daily-news-the-sismanplatzman-murders/40656676/?locale=en-US
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/son-of-sam-denied-parole-serial-killer-david-berkowitz/


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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Dark Cast Network. Welcome to the Dark Side of podcasting. Hey, hey,
welcome back to Autumn's Oddities. I'm Autumn. Well, the season
is in full swing and I am just so thrilled.
There is legitimately ten things to do every weekend near me,
and don't forget if you're in Kentucky or within driving

(00:53):
distance of Brandenburg, Kentucky, come see me at the Battletown
Which Festival on October. I will be part of a
podcast panel as well as I'll be doing a live
recording from the festival. Let's get into today's case, which
is one I thought that I would not cover because

(01:14):
it has really been just covered to death. But I
found an unsolved murder that might link back to this
very infamous killer and some additional information which I have
not seen plastered everywhere. If you think you know the
whole story of the Son of Sam, you might be mistaken.

(01:35):
David Berkowitz, also known as Son of Sam and the
forty four Caliber Killer, is an American serial killer who
terrorized the New York City area from July nineteen seventy
six to July nineteen seventy seven. Berkowitz killed six people
and wounded seven mostly using a forty four caliber Bulldog

(01:55):
revolver gun. Since his conviction, Berkowitz has made a lot
of outstanding claims, everything from a demonic dog to possession,
so on and so forth, But his claim that he
didn't act alone in his murder spree might just be true.
David Berkowitz was born Richard David Falco on June first,

(02:17):
to nineteen fifty three in Brooklyn, New York. His parents
were unmarried and they split up shortly before he was born,
and he was put up for adoption. His adoptive parents
changed his first and middle names. They just switched him
around and then gave him their surname. From a young age,
Berkowitz began to show signs of future violent behavior patterns.

(02:42):
He was above average intelligence, but he lost interest in
school pretty quickly and focused on his more rebellious interests.
Berkowitz got involved in you know, petty larceny pyromania, but
his you know fores into misbehaving never led to legal trees, rebels,
or impacted his school records. When he was fourteen, Berkowitz's

(03:05):
adoptive mother died of breast cancer, and his relationship with
his adoptive father and new stepmother grew strained. When he
was eighteen. In nineteen seventy one, Berkowitz enlisted in the
US Army and served both in the US and South Korea.
He was honorably discharged three years later. Berkowitz then tracked

(03:26):
down his birth mother, Betty Falco, and she told him
about his illegitimate birth and the recent death of his
biological father, which greatly upset Berkowitz. He eventually lost contact
with his birth mother and began working some blue collar jobs.
According to his own accounts, Berkowitz's killing career began on

(03:48):
December twenty fourth, nineteen seventy five, when he stabbed two
women using a hunting knife. One of the women was
Michelle Foreman and the other has never been identified. In
the early morning hours of July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy six,
eighteen year old Donna Lauria and nineteen year old Jody
Valenti were sitting on Valenti's car in Valenti's car when

(04:10):
Berkowitz walked up to the car and shot at them.
He fired three shots and walked away. Donna was killed
instantly and Jody survived. When Jody was questioned by the police.
She stated she didn't recognize the man who shot at them,
but she was able to give them a description, which
fit with a statement from Lauria's father, who said that

(04:33):
he saw the same man just kind of sitting in
a yellow car outside their home. Testimony by other individuals
in the neighborhood also stated that the yellow car had
been seen driving around the neighborhood that night. Police determined
that the gun used was a forty four caliber Bulldog.
On October twenty third, nineteen seventy six, Berkowitz struck again,

(04:56):
this time in Flushing, which is a community in the
Borough of Queens in New York, York. Carl de Naro
and Rosemary Keenan were sitting in their car parked when
the windows shattered. Keenan immediately started the car and took off,
and it wasn't until they got help that they realized
they had been shot at. That's what shattered the window,

(05:18):
and Denaro had a bullet wound in his head. I
guess he's just in shock. He took off, didn't even
feel it, so much adrenaline was going. Both d Naro
and Keenan survived the attack, and neither saw the shooter
Police determined that the bullets were forty four caliber, but
they could not determine what gun they came from. Investigators

(05:39):
did not initially draw a connection between this shooting and
the previous one because they happened in two separate burrows
of New York, so why would they and it was
New York in the nineteen seventies, crime was pretty high.
Shortly after midnight on November twenty seventh, nineteen seventy six,
sixteen year old Donna Demassi and eighteen year old Joanne

(05:59):
Lomino were sitting on Lomino's porch in Belrose, Queens. As
the two talked, a man approached them dressed in military fatigues.
He began to ask them for directions in what they
described as a high pitched voice, before taking out a
revolver and shooting at them. They were both injured, and
the shooter fled the scene. Both girls thankfully survived their wounds,

(06:23):
but Lomino was paralyzed. Police were able to determine that
the bullets were from an unknown forty four caliber gun.
They were also able to make some composite sketches based
on the eyewitness testimony from the two girls that were
shot in neighborhood witnesses. On January thirtieth, nineteen seventy seven,

(06:44):
Christine Freund and John Deal were sitting in Deal's car
in Queen's when the car was shot at. Deal suffered
minor injuries, but Freund died of her injuries at the hospital.
This time, no one saw the shoot After this shooting,
police publicly connected the case with the previous shootings. They

(07:05):
finally saw the pattern. Even though they're in different burrows,
they're the exact same type of attacks. They observed that
all the shootings involved a forty four caliber gun and
the shooter seemed to be targeting young, attractive women with long,
dark hair. When the composite sketches from the various attacks

(07:26):
were released, NYPD officials noted that they were likely searching
for multiple shooters. Isn't that interesting. On March eighth, nineteen
seventy seven, Columbia University student Virginia Boscarician was shot while
walking home from class. She lived just one block from
fellow victim Christine Freund. She was shot several times and

(07:50):
she did, unfortunately die of a gunshot wound to the head.
In the minutes following the shooting, a neighbor who heard
obviously gunshots outside, looked and saw what he described as
a short, husky teenage boy sprinting from the crime scene.
Other neighbors reported seeing the teenager, as well as a

(08:11):
man matching Berkowitz's description in the area of the shooter.
The earliest media coverage implied that the teenager was the perpetrator. Eventually,
police officials determined that the teenager was a witness and
was not a suspect. They had heard the gunshot, seen
what happened, and just took off running like most people
would if guns were being fired. On April seventeenth, nineteen

(08:34):
seventy seven, Alexander Esau and Valentina Siani were in the Bronx,
several blocks away from the scene of the Valenti Lauria shooting.
The pair were each shot twice while sitting in a car,
and both died before they could give any information to police.
Investigators determined that they were killed by the same suspect

(08:54):
in the other shootings with the same forty four caliber firearm.
And Soriani were in the Bronx and they were just
a few blocks away from the scene of the Valini
Loriani shooting. Like I said. At the crime scene, police
discovered a handwritten letter addressed to the Captain of the NYPD.
In this letter, Berkowitz referred to himself as the Son

(09:16):
of Sam and said there were going to be more
shootings to come. The NYPD formed a two hundred person
task force to find the killer. With the information from
the first letter and the connections between the previous shootings,
the investigators began to create a psychological profile for the suspect.

(09:37):
The suspect was described as neurotic, potentially suffering from paranoid schizophrenia,
and believed that he was possessed by demons. Police also
tracked down every legal owner of a forty four caliber
Bulldog Revolver in New York City and questioned them in
addition to forensically testing their guns. They were unable to

(09:59):
determine which was murder weapon. Police also set up traps
of undercover police officers posing as couples just sitting in
parked cars in the hopes that the suspect would reveal himself.
On May thirtieth, nineteen seventy seven, Jimmy Breslin, who was
a columnist for The Daily News, received the second Son
of Sam letter It was postmarked for the same day

(10:21):
from Inglewood, New Jersey. The envelope had the words ce
Dash forty four written on the reverse side. In the letter,
the son of Sam stated that he was a reader
of Breslin's column and referenced several of the past victims.
He also continued to mock the New York City Police
Department over its inability to solve the case. In the letter,

(10:45):
he also asks what will you have for July twenty ninth,
and investigators took that as a threat maybe a warning,
as July twenty ninth would be the anniversary of the
first shooting. One notable observation was that this letter seemed
to be written in a more sophisticated manner than the
first one, and this led investigators to believe that the

(11:07):
letter could have been written by a copycat. The letter
was published about a week later and sent much of
New York into a panic, and since he did seem
to be targeting women with dark hair, many women opted
to change their hairstyle, died it blonde, cut it, wore
wigs just in the hope that they wouldn't be targeted.

(11:30):
On June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven, the son of
Sam made another appearance, this time in Bayside, Queens. Sal
Lupo and Judy Placida were sitting in their car in
the early morning hours when they were shot with three gunshots.
They both suffered minor injuries and survived, though neither saw

(11:50):
their attacker. Witnesses, however, reported seeing a tall, stocky man
with dark hair fleeing the crime scene, as well as
a blonde with a white mustache or with a mustache
I don't know why of white mustache with mustache driving
in the area. Police believed that the darker haired man
was their suspect and that the blonde man was a witness.

(12:13):
On July thirty first, nineteen seventy seven, just two days
after the anniversary of the first shooting, Berkowitz shot again,
this time in Brooklyn. Stacy Moskowitz and Robert Yolante were
in Violante's car parked nearby a park when a man
walked up to the passenger side and began shooting. Moscowitz

(12:35):
died in the hospital and Violante suffered non life threatening injuries.
Unlike most of the other female victims, Moscowitz did not
have long or dark hair. So so much for that
several witnesses to the shooting were able to provide descriptions
of the shooter to police. One of the witnesses described
that the man looked like he was wearing a wig,

(12:57):
which could account for the varying description of suspects with
blonde and dark hair. Several witnesses saw a man matching
Burkawitz's description, wearing a wig, driving a yellow car without
any headlights on, and speeding away from the crime scene.
Police decided to investigate the owners of any yellow cars
matching the description. David Berkowitz's car was one of those cars,

(13:22):
but investigators initially pegged him as a witness rather than
a suspect. The case was finally cracked after a witness
reported a strange man on the street near the final shooting.
After police checked traffic tickets that had been issued in
the area, they were able to trace them to David
Berkowitz's car and his home in nearby Yonkers. On August tenth,

(13:46):
nineteen seventy seven, police searched Berkowitz's car. Inside they found
a rifle, a duffel bag filled with ammunition, maps of
the crime scenes, and an unfed sam letter addressed to
Sergeant Dowd of the Omega Task Force. And it's like
he left it for him in a neat little package,
didn't he. But wait, they did this not on the

(14:09):
up and up, So they decided to wait. The police
did for Berkowitz to leave his apartment, which would hopefully
give them enough time to obtain a warrant, because they
searched his car without one. You don't want to do
that because then that evidence becomes inadmissible in court, and
you quite literally found every single piece of evidence. The

(14:30):
warrant never arrived, but police surrounded Berkowitz when he left
his apartment holding a forty four caliber bulldog in a
paper bag. When Berkowitz was arrested, he allegedly told police, well,
you got me. How come it took you so long.
When police searched Berkowitz's apartment, they found satanic graffiti drawn

(14:50):
on the walls and his diaries detailing his alleged fourteen
hundred arsons in the New York area. When Berkowitz was
taken in for questioning, he very quickly confessed to the
shootings and said that he would go ahead and plead guilty.
When police asked what his motive was for the killing spree.
He said that his former neighbor Sam Carr had a

(15:13):
dog that was possessed by a demon, which told Berkowitz
to kill it demanded blood. Sam Carr is the same
Sam who inspired his nickname the Son of Sam, and
there's going to be more on the car Brothers. Later,
Berkowitz was sentenced to twenty five years in prison for
each murder, to be served in a New York supermax prison.

(15:37):
He was initially put into Attica Correctional Facility. In February
nineteen seventy nine, Berkowitz held a press conference and stated
that his claims about demonic possession, which he had made
many were a hoax. That's why I didn't go deep
into it, because, yeah, it's an interesting angle. He admitted
that was all bullshit. He didn't hear a dog telling

(15:58):
him to kill There was no demon possession. It was
just completely made up because you know, satanic panic was
in full swing, and I believe at that time a
possession defense had been attempted in the case that ed
Lorraine Warren went and looked at. That inspired the third
Conjuring movie. I believe maybe the fourth, so Berkowitz stated

(16:22):
to a court appointed psychiatrist that he was lashing out
in anger against a world that he felt had rejected him.
Though it's his real motivation. He felt that he had
been rejected by women in particular, which is probably one
of the reasons that he was specifically targeting attractive young women.
Boo hoo, you got rejected. Calm the fuck out. There's

(16:44):
somebody out there for everybody. He had, just got a look.
In nineteen ninety, Berkowitz was moved to Sullivan Correctional Facility.
He first became eligible for parole in two thousand and two,
which I'm stunned he was eligible for, but has been
denied fourteen times, most recently in May of twenty twenty four.
He is currently being held at Sean Guck. I probably

(17:07):
said that wrong Correctional Facility, which is a maximum security
prison about sixty miles north of New York City. That
is the tale of David Berkowitz and his complete bullshit,
made up story about a demonic dog and being possessed
and YadA, YadA, YadA, and none of that was true.
He admitted absolutely none of it was true. He was

(17:29):
just pissed off because he felt rejected. I'm guessing since
birth quite literally, because he was given up for adoption
and he never got to meet his birth father. He
met his birth mother, but you know, that relationship kind
of fell apart too, and apparently, you know, he's just
so pissed off at women that he's got to go
out and shoot random people, which I don't feel any

(17:51):
sympathy for him whatsoever. So all that said, let's get
into the newer angles. There's a Netflix four part limited
series called Sons of Sam, a Descent into Darkness, and
it is just chock full of very disturbing details in
the Son of Sam serial killer case. Produced by reporter

(18:15):
Joshua Zeeman, Sons of Sam centers on investigative journalist Mauri
Terry and his decades long search for what he believed
to be the truth behind the murders of six people
in New York City during the summer of nineteen seventy seven. Namely,
Terry believed that convicted murderer David Berkowitz didn't act alone

(18:36):
in the slangs, and that he was part of a
satanic cult that ordered him to kill his victims. Each
episode of Sons of Sam tracks Terry's journey through more
than two decades of research into the Son of Sam case,
an investigation that took him from New York to South
Dakota and eventually, as all cult stories seem to do

(18:58):
to Charles Manson, terror tory in southern California. While the
weather's nice and the drugs was a flow in free
love was faux free. So yeah, I see why it
attracted a lot of people. Zeeman said that this was
one of the details that really amazed him when looking
into the case. As we know, as I've talked about,
the killer famously taunted police and reporters in New York

(19:20):
with letters calling himself the Son of Sam and other
devil inspired monikers, which inspired the nickname for the case.
But Terry uncovered that Berkowitz, who was arrested for the killings,
lived directly next door to two brothers named John and
Michael Carr, who were the real life son of Sam.

(19:41):
But Terry uncovered that Berkowitz, who of course was arrested
for the killings, lived directly next door to two brothers,
the Carr brothers, John and Michael, who were the literal
sons of Sam Carr. So that's where he took the
name from. What's more, one of Berkowitz's notes used seven
other names, thought at the time to be just various

(20:03):
nicknames for the killer, though Terry thought that they were
monikers for other accomplices. This list included the Wicked King
Wicker and John Wheaty's rapist and suffocator of young girls.
Both of these could possibly reference the Car brothers. They
lived on Wicker Street and Yonkers near Berkowitz, and John

(20:25):
Carr was nicknamed Wheedi's His sister gave him that nickname.
Her name was wheat Car, which is a fun name,
I guess. Both brothers also remarkably resembled early police sketches
of the killer, and again, this could just have been
David Berkowitz in a wig. But if you've ever seen
a picture of him, you know he is extremely distinct looking,

(20:47):
to the point that it almost looks like he's wearing
prosthetics on his face. His face is very very interesting,
almost looks like he has a ton of filler in it.
Despite these clues, police never followed up with the Carr family.
The brothers both died under mysterious accidental circumstances years after
the killings, which only increased Terry's suspicions that they were

(21:08):
involved with the crimes and were killed for knowing too much,
and Zeemon thought it was insane that the cars had
never been interviewed by police, and I would have to agree.
In interviews with Terry, long after the case was closed
and both Car brothers had died, Berkowitz said that the
Cars were accomplices in his crimes. Not only that, he

(21:31):
implied they were responsible for some of the murders. Berkowitz
told Terry he only committed three of the six shootings,
though he was present for all of them. Terry also
discovered an abandoned pump house in Untermeyer Park in Yonkers,
New York that was nicknamed the Devil's Cave. There, he

(21:52):
believed that Berkowitz first became indoctrinated into a cult. And
I'm not sure how much I believe this part of theory,
but I think it's something that should be looked into.
There were reports from neighbors that groups of people with
hoods and torches would gather in the woods near the structure,
and multiple people, including Berkowitz, said cult initiations happened there,

(22:14):
where members would sacrifice dogs and drink their blood. That
is not cool at all. While investigating the Devil's Cave,
Terry discovered that it was just mere steps from Berkowitz's
single room apartment. He also found Satanic symbols covering the
walls of the cave and German shepherd carcasses in the

(22:36):
nearby woods. That's that's absolutely horrible to Terry. This was
proof of satanic cult activity going on near Berkowitz and
further fueled his theory that the cult, which he determined
was called The Children, were involved in the killings. A
cult research often winds into endless loops of connections, which

(22:58):
haunted Terry the longer he looked into the Son of
Sam case. The connections he found that are unveiled in
Netflix's series are wide reaching, to say the very least.
The cult that Terry determined was operating in Yonkers called
The Children had ties to scientology and the West Coast.
I know it keeps ongoing. The Children was an offshoot

(23:21):
of a cult called the Processed Church of the Final Judgment,
which was a group formed in Britain during nineteen sixty six.
Leaders Robert de Grimston and Marianne Maclain defected from a
British division of l Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology and
brought their satanic teachings to the United States in the
early nineteen seventies. The group eventually splintered into smaller factions,

(23:44):
each with different names but a similar core belief that
their satanic and murderous practices could bring about the end
of the world. Terry reason, that's how the children ended
up in Yonkers and in Berkelwitz's backyard. He also discovered
proof that de Grimston and Charles Manson attended a party

(24:05):
together in California in the late nineteen sixties, and theorized
that meeting De Grimston influenced Manson's apocalyptic visions of a
race war that he used to incite his followers into
murdering five people the Tate La Bianca murders in the
summer of nineteen sixty nine. This is some wild stuff.

(24:25):
It gets wilder. One of Berkowitz's most talked about killings
was the murder of twenty year old Stacy Moskowitz, who
was shot in the head while sitting in the car
with her boyfriend, Robert Volante. He was unfortunately blinded by
that attack, but did survive. Moskowitz was son of Sam's
sixth and final murder victim. Terry's investigation led him to

(24:47):
several sources who claimed Moskowitz was killed for a snuff
film because the children wanted to record her execution and
sell it quote to the highest bidder. The snuff film
never materialized, but Terry uncovered anecdotal evidence through a prison
informant known only as Vinnie, that there were people in

(25:10):
a van stationed near the Lover's Lane where Moskowitz was killed,
ready to film the murder. The informant claimed that a
photographer named ron Sisman, who was later murdered, with a student,
Elizabeth Plattsman, were the two that filmed the murders, and
in what I doubt is a coincidence if true, Sisman

(25:31):
and Plattsman were both murdered in the years that followed.
Both victims had been beaten severely and shot once in
the back of their heads at close range. The apartment
had been ransacked. Elizabeth Plattman was a twenty year old
student at Smith College. She was from Roslyn, Long Island,
and Ronald Sisman was a thirty nine year old photographer.

(25:55):
They were found at seven forty pm on Halloween night,
nineteen eighty one in Cis Sisman's third floor duplex at
two oh seven West twenty second Street. Mister Sisman operated
two photography businesses at that address. The apartment's furnishings had
been torn apart, apparently by the killer or killers in

(26:15):
search of something like a snuff film perhaps, and all
of their identification was missing as well. Police looked into
robbery as a possible motive for the double homicide, but
high value items were not taken. Authorities also raised the
possibility that Sisman may have known his killer, since there

(26:35):
was no sign of forced entry into the apartment. According
to police, a twenty five caliber pistol registered to Sisman
was really the only thing that appeared to be missing.
In the docuseries, Michael Zuckerman, a former reporter at Gannett Newspapers,
explained that he had received a letter from the prison

(26:56):
informant named Vinnie. Vinnie served time with burkel Witz and
claimed to know about the cult Berklewitz was a part of.
According to Vinnie, the murder of Stacy Moskowitz, the last
victim of the Son of Sam shootings, wasn't just a
random act of violence. He confirmed that it wasn't orchestrated
as a snuff film. Those murders have remained unsolved, but

(27:21):
Vinnie did connect Sisman with a wealthy man in Long
Island that he called r R, a mysterious figure who
had a pin shop for strange videos. Zuckerman and Terry
immediately thought of Roy Raiden, a millionaire producer who lived
in a seventy two room Long Island mansion. Raydon had

(27:43):
a reputation for throwing drug fueled sex parties. At one
of them, actress Melanie Holler said that she was brutally
raped and beaten after refusing to participate in enorgy. She
also said that the incident was filmed, which of course
piqued Terry's interests as he connected this backed to the
Sisman murder. Vinny claimed that r R had a significant

(28:06):
role in Berkowitz's cult. Zuckerman didn't think that it was
possible to get any payoff from the information, but Terry
wanted to further explore the idea that Rayden was a
cult leader. Rayden, at age thirty three, was found dead
in a dry creek in California on June tenth, nineteen
eighty three. He had been missing for about a month.

(28:30):
When Terry scoped out the crime scene, he found a
bible near where Rayden's body had been, and that convinced
him that this was proof of cult activities. I don't
know why that would be proof of a cult activity
to find a bible, but okay. Terry's theory, though, took
a blow a few years down the line. In nineteen
eighty eight, four people were arrested after investigators discovered the

(28:50):
murder for higher plot behind Rayden's death. The official explanation
regarding his death boiled down to a financial dispute over
the production of France Ford Coppola's The Cotton Club. The
revelation about Rayden's murder weakened Terry's cult theory, but that
didn't stop him from looking into Berkowitz's cult connections, and
Terry would publish his book The Ultimate Evil. I used

(29:13):
it for source material in this episode soon after, and
he would talk to Berkowitz in the nineties. The later
episodes of Sons of Sam were live really heavily on
old footage from interviews between Berkowitz and Terry, especially clips
where Berkowitz claims he didn't act alone in the series.

(29:33):
Burkowitz tells Terry that he was not the person who
pulled the trigger at all six murders, though again he
did admit to being at all of the crime scenes.
Besides linking the car brothers to the crime, though Berkowitz
refused to tell Terry anything else about who was involved,
which of course led Terry to further assume that there
were cult members still alive and willing to kill anyone

(29:56):
who told the truth. Burkowitz also told Terry that when
he joined children, he had to give them pictures of
his family members, whom the cult promised to kill if
he ever ratted them out. Sons of Sam director Zieman
said he knows the names of the potential suspects, but
didn't disclose them in the show. So he said that

(30:16):
there's a preponderance of evidence to suggest that Berkowitz didn't
act alone. I have to agree, he said, I have
been told the names of those individuals, some of whom
are still alive. I think there's enough doubts to suggest
that it's worth looking into reopening the case. I would agree.
As for Ronald Sisman and Elizabeth Plattman, the police requested

(30:38):
that anyone with information about the unsolved murders either go
online now obviously not back then, and submit a tip
at the NYPD's website, or call their hotline and all
information would be kept confidential. That was a wild and
twisty ride. What do you think, I'll tell you what

(31:00):
I think. I knew that the son of Sam, you know,
demonic possession, evil talking dog, telling him to go out
and commit murders. I didn't buy that for even half
a second. David Berkowitz had all the markers of a
serial killer growing up. He heard animals, he broke the law,

(31:22):
he was a pyromaniac. He claimed to have committed fourteen
hundred arsons. I honestly wouldn't put that past him at all.
That's probably true. And if it wasn't fourteen hundred, it
was a lot. Fourteen hundred is a lot. But I mean,
you know how easy it is to start a fire,
Like all it takes is literal fire to start a fire.

(31:43):
It's not hard to do. And you know, back then
in the seventies, there want surveillance cameras everywhere. You know,
if you attempted to commit arson now, there's a good
chance you're going to get caught at one fire and
get investigators would know, they know the points of O
and they know the science to look for in an arson.
And cameras are quite literally everywhere now, especially if you

(32:06):
live in the United Kingdom. I know in parts of
Britain that like surveillance cameras are quite literally everywhere, which
is good and bad. I'm not going to get into
that whole ethical dilemma. But back then, no, that was
not a thing. So if he wanted to commit fourteen
hundred arsens, he could probably do that, like pretty quickly.
He could just be doing multiple arsens a day. And

(32:27):
I mean, he would have never gotten caught. As for
him acting alone, I honestly don't know. I think very
much so that he could have had accomplices. Other like
victims describe different people, and again Berkowitz had David Burkoo's

(32:49):
had a very very distinctive face. Again so much so
that it's like kind of comical to look at. He
had massive like what looked like, okay, I'll call to
use the parlance of our times, pillow face. You know,
when somebody has way too much filler in like the
mid section of their face near their cheek bones and

(33:09):
all that. That's what he looked like still does. I think,
I don't know what he looks like now, but I
assume it's close to the same. He had like bright
blue eyes, he had very dark, curly hair, very sharp
distinct features, and witnesses, including victims of his who were shot,

(33:29):
who saw him, you know, pretty close up, they describe
different people, different heights, different colored hair, And again, I
know he could have been wearing a wig, but back
then wigs were not realistic like at all. So if
he was wearing a wig, like the one witness said
when he was sitting in a yellow car, it was
obviously a wig. It was very obvious that he was

(33:52):
wearing some sort of disguise. I do think that's a
possibility that he could have been working in conjunction with
the Call Brothers. They did live next door to him
for a time, and if the cult angle is true
at all, that might have been part of it. I
don't know, but you know, cults, if they're Satanic cults

(34:14):
and they're looking to do a black mass, they aren't
going to go shoot somebody in the street or stab somebody.
They're going to bring him back and do it during
their ritual, right like you can't. You can't have one
without the other. You can't say, oh, they're Satanists, they're
cult they're performing sacrifices. Meanwhile, this guy who's involved in
the cults just walking out and shooting people or stabbing people.

(34:35):
That's not a human sacrifice, you know, it's it's just
a straight up murder. That doesn't have a whole lot
to do with a cult. But he could have used
that possession demonic, you know, Satanist cult angle. That whole
part could have been true when he confessed to you know,

(34:57):
that particular angle of the killings. But the dog talking
thing is completely made up. I don't think he was
possessed by anything at all. I think he's a guy
who had a chip on his shoulder and felt rejected
by the world and decided I'm going to take it
out on you know, young couples having a good time,

(35:19):
or just young women minding their own goddamn business, sometimes
sitting in their car, sometimes sitting on the front porch.
I'm gonna kill them for absolutely no reason other than
I've just been so slighted. The brothers could have had
something to do with it. The fact that the letters
were different in different language and seemingly slightly varied handwriting.

(35:40):
All of that does suggest that there was more than
one killer. And he said that, but he said it
after the car brothers died, and that could have been,
you know, just because he didn't want to be killed
in prison by them or their associates, or he could
have just been straight up lying. He's lied about lots
of things. Just don't know. But there are an odd

(36:02):
number of coincidences, are there not his connections, According to
a jail house informant who didn't apparently get any any
benefit for saying any of the or forgiving any of
this information to police, he just told them, you know,
Berkowitz told me he was in some sort of cult
and other people were involved in the killings, and they

(36:26):
had somebody recording, and he gave the names of Ronald
Sisman and Elizabeth Plattman. They were recording Moscowitz's murder for
a snuff film. It is very strange that shortly thereafter
the two of them are murdered together in Sisman's apartment,
and the apartment is just torn apart, like couch cushions shredded,

(36:48):
stuff like that. Very clearly somebody was looking for something
was it the snuff film? Did they find it? Don't know,
but that would be a way for a cult or
some sort of criminal organization to make money. I know
there's a market for that kind of thing. I'm not
even gonna look into it. I'm not getting onto the

(37:09):
dark web. I'm not a kid anymore. You know. When
I was a teenager, getting on the dark web was
fun looking at like rotten dot com and all that stuff.
But no, I mess with it now. It's way too
easy to trace an IP address. I'm an adult. I'm
not doing that crap anyway. No, I think that's a
distinct possibility that they did indeed film her murder and

(37:32):
sold it to somebody. That the copy the only copy.
They didn't want the heat on them when Berkowitz was caught,
they hid the copy. Somebody came in busted up the
place they were executed. They were beaten severely, probably to
try to get information out of them, and then each
of them was shot in the back of the head.
I'm just saying that's all little too coincidental. The raiding guy.

(37:56):
You know, that cult leader theory was interesting, but it
was a really loose connection. It is fascinating that he
had ties to Charles Manson and all that random crap.
But other than that, nah, I don't think that. I
don't think he was a cult leader. I don't think
he had much of anything to do with it. But
the snuff film angle I find that very interesting, and
that the murders of Ronald Sisman and Elizabeth Plattsman are

(38:18):
still unsolved. All right, Well, if you like what you hear,
you can hear more episodes every Tuesday and Friday, released
on all podcasts platforms. On social media, I'm on Instagram
at Autumns Podcast, Facebook at Autumn's Audities. I'm also on
threads at Autumns Podcast. I have deleted ex Twitter. It's

(38:40):
just a cesspool there. Then I'm not interested in anymore,
just doom and gloom all the time and crazy messages
from people, and I would rather not. So you cannot
find me there because I deleted my account, permit. Thanks
for asking. I appreciate you listening, and if it's creepy

(39:01):
and weird, you'll find it here.
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